The Diamonds/Rinehart spat is dominating the environment thread but it has nothing to do with the environment or climate change.
Bubbling along at the same time are Pat Cummins’ anti-Alinta stance, Saudi Arabia’s use of golf to try to improve its image, the ban on Russian athletes, and now the Socceroos’ powerful criticism of Qatar’s human rights abuses:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/world-cup/fifa-world-cup-2022-socceroos-protest-qatar-human-rights-migrant-workers-news-video-statement-lgbtqi/news-story/c6307919cf59925bfaf43f6b46f6b317
Going back in time there are the Olympic boycotts, Peter Norman’s support of the Black Power protest, athletes taking the knee in support of Black Lives Matter, the Springbok protests and eventual ban on South African sport. I guess the dreadful Munich Olympics tragedy could also be included as could Hitler’s use of the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Then there’s tobacco, alcohol, gambling, etc advertising.
The old adage, “sport and politics don’t mix” seems to be more honoured in the breach.
Discuss …
I have no issues with standing up for human rights.
If people from other nations told us what we should and shouldnt be doing here in Australia, we would be very very very very angry.
All my life I have been told that sports and politics dont mix. In the professional era I see this happening more and more frequently and its starting to become problematic.
Every aspect of life is intertwined with every other aspect. Sports and politics have always mixed. People think just because it's wasn't front page news in
the past that it never occurred, which in my view is not right. The minute that sports accepted money from commercial entities was the minute they put themselves front and centre in this debate.
I think sportsmen and women piping up and expecting commercial enterprises and governments to do better is a good thing. Whether it is simply a flash in the pan moment or whether it brings lasting positive change remains to be seen.
Sport gives many athletes a podium from which they can express their opinions.
But as in all walks of life folks will only feel comfortable with them expressing those views on which they agree.
Dawn Fraser spoke the other day in admirable terms about Gina Rinehart and her contribution to sport, but the response to that from many folks would be that Dawn's a 'dinosaur' and should keep quiet.
I accept that sports folk have the right to put forward their opinions and their high profile allows them that opportunity.
But in fact their opinions have no more value, insight, or contribute meaningfully than the bloke running around for the Bidgewarra reserves.
The other thing to consider is while many elite athletes are intelligent, and even informed, most of them have very limited life experience due to the dedication and training required to reach the pinnacle of their chosen sport. They live and breathe the sport during their prime years.
I have little interest in anything they have to say other than relating to their own sport.
There are much better sources available on which to make judgements on social issues and world affairs than elite athletes.
The problem is not with sportspeople and organisations (whether it be sponsors or their employers or both) having differences of opinion or issues, its all about how its dealt with and resolved. For the sake and wellbeing of all parties, it should be done in behing closed doors face to face and respectfully.
As soon as the media parasites get hold of it (especially prior to resolution), its all over.
If people from other nations told us what we should and shouldnt be doing here in Australia, we would be very very very very angry.
Other nations, UN agencies and many NGOs are constantly telling us what to do Thry ... but we generally just ignore them.
We could add in "Carlton Respects", the Pink Test, Pride Round, Indigenous Round, and many other causes.
Right on cue, Brian Cook steps up to the plate;
“There is always an element of making sure you have player satisfaction, player engagement, but we need to make sure we have a pretty good business model.
I have no issue in discussing sponsorship with players, but I don’t necessarily think it’s their decision.”
https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/era-of-woke-player-arrives-but-carlton-ceo-brian-cook-says-ultimately-its-the-clubs-call-on-sponsorships-c-8666886
Sport gives many athletes a podium from which they can express their opinions.
But as in all walks of life folks will only feel comfortable with them expressing those views on which they agree.
Dawn Fraser spoke the other day in admirable terms about Gina Rinehart and her contribution to sport, but the response to that from many folks would be that Dawn's a 'dinosaur' and should keep quiet.
I accept that sports folk have the right to put forward their opinions and their high profile allows them that opportunity.
But in fact their opinions have no more value, insight, or contribute meaningfully than the bloke running around for the Bidgewarra reserves.
The other thing to consider is while many elite athletes are intelligent, and even informed, most of them have very limited life experience due to the dedication and training required to reach the pinnacle of their chose sport. They live and breathe the sport during their prime years.
I have little interest in anything they have to say other than relating to their own sport.
There are much better sources available on which to make judgements on social issues and world affairs than elite athletes.
I wanted to express a “like” but I’m getting a “forbidden” pop up.
One advantage sportspeople have is a captive and receptive audience. If they have opinions that encourage positive change, it has the potential to influence more people than a politician or some anonymous rando from the burbs. Especially in Australia, the real pop stars are the sporting heroes.
Other nations, UN agencies and many NGOs are constantly telling us what to do Thry ... but we generally just ignore them.
Are our socceewhos going to put their money where their mouth is and decline participation because of it?
Received a survey today in my email inbox regarding the mining industry in WA and any negativity towards any particular company etc etc...went onto name the big miners in terms of ticking boxes but with one company featuring in the questioning more than others.
Reckon either the Mining Industry as a whole or Gina's PR crew might be a bit nervous about the optics of the Netball fiasco....
Hope you barrelled em EB
Hope you barrelled em EB
NB, Dont think I will be getting an invite to any of the Miners Xmas parties....😉
Magda Szubanski jumped on the Rinehart pile on not expecting her own past to be brought up.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/27/10/63900805-11360269-Magda_re_shared_the_photo_writing_I_ve_spent_the_25_years_since_-m-3_1666863149265.jpg)
Magda Szubanski jumped on the Rinehart pile on not expecting her own past to be brought up.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/27/10/63900805-11360269-Magda_re_shared_the_photo_writing_I_ve_spent_the_25_years_since_-m-3_1666863149265.jpg)
And what has Magda said about that pic ?
And what has Magda said about that pic ?
It's OK when we do it!
It's OK when we do it!
Is that what she said ?
Magda has and does work tirelessly for philanthropic causes, without seeking recognition, tax deductions or any number of accolades. Any comparison between Magda's past comedy work and Rinehart's present 'activities' is spurious and crass.
Is that what she said ?
I think actions speak louder than words.
I think actions speak louder than words.
Her actions 30 years ago speak louder than her words today ?
What are her words today ?
Her actions 30 years ago speak louder than her words today ?
What are her words today ?
"Blacking up " has always been tacky imho. Hopefully she won't do it again.
Yep, because the person who stole the loaf of bread has no business calling out the mass murderer - it's rank hypocrisy.
Magda spoke about the blackface skit back in 2019:
Magda Szubanski candidly discussed using blackface in a comedy skit 25 years ago and the process she’s gone through to educate herself and others on the issue since.
On Tuesday, the actor spoke at Sydney’s CityTalks - an event series that engages federal and local thought leaders on significant issues - about her own issues with anxiety.
This edition of CityTalks was centered around supporting mental health and wellbeing, especially for Indigenous Australians.
Szubanski said even though she has a diverse background and is from the LGBTQI community, she acknowledges she has made mistakes in the past that could have hurt Indigenous people.
“I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on diversity; I am someone who is very much learning,” she said during a panel mediated by former Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
“Recently, I have been challenged by alt-right trolls who brought up pictures of me doing blackface 25 years ago. Although they’re alt-right trolls, that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
“It doesn’t mean I don’t agree with their comments. I’ve had to go through a process, as someone who talks about diversity, and I’m also part of that problem. What do we do with people like me?”
At the time, the actor said she had evolved as a person since filming that segment and understands it was the wrong thing to do.
“We didn’t know, and that doesn’t mean you’re off the hook,” Szubanski told HuffPost Australia after the panel.
“You can’t just stop doing it because it’s ‘politically incorrect’ to do it. You have to walk in the other person’s shoes and imagine how they’d feel.”
“It’s making that empathy leap. We’re all on a learning journey.”
Blackface dates back hundreds of years and was most popular in the US at the turn of the 20th century, especially in cities in the Northern and Midwestern regions where there was limited interaction with people of colour, according to the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture.
The practise was used to mock, objectify and ridicule African American people as well as reduce them to stereotypes, such as being lazy or irresponsible.
During Tuesday’s panel, Szubanski asked co-panelist Jennah Dungay, the youth ambassador for AbSec (Aboriginal Child, Family and Community Care State Secretariat), how people who’ve made similar mistakes can use those instances as teachable moments.
“It comes down to a level of understanding,” Dungay explained.
“We are human, people do make mistakes. It’s actually what you learn in that moment [that] is more powerful. You’ve got to share that experience with other people like we are tonight, and I think that’s what changes people’s attitudes when it comes to moving forward.”
Magda Szubanski jumped on the Rinehart pile on not expecting her own past to be brought up.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/27/10/63900805-11360269-Magda_re_shared_the_photo_writing_I_ve_spent_the_25_years_since_-m-3_1666863149265.jpg)
Oops!
I think actions speak louder than words.
Glass Houses ....Stones
Magda has and does work tirelessly for philanthropic causes, without seeking recognition, tax deductions or any number of accolades. Any comparison between Magda's past comedy work and Rinehart's present 'activities' is spurious and crass.
Comedy? Doubt indigenous folk would have thought it is was comedic. Pure racism and nothing else.
I disagree, “blackface” can be racist, absolutely it can and has been.
But is it always 100% ? Absolutely not, is it poor taste ? Sure…
But let’s contrast Magda’s comments with our old friend Gina’s… 🦗🦗
I disagree, “blackface” can be racist, absolutely it can and has been.
But is it always 100% ? Absolutely not, is it poor taste ?
And who are the judges of that? What are the guidelines for making such judgements? Is there ok blacking up and not ok blacking up? Can Magda black up but not Sam Newman? I personally think all blacking up is just cheap and tacky.
Cheap and tacky is also in the eye of the beholder though…
Cheap and tacky is also in the eye of the beholder though…
So you think blacking up can be ok? Fascinating.
This arvo, today ?
Nah, pretty hard to justify, we are all aware that it’s frowned upon by brown people, but is it intrinsically racist, no.
Can it be racist, yes.
Is you putting Viking horns on your head being racist to Scandinavians ?
It could be depending on the context, is it poor taste ? Possibly could be…
Growing up Al Jolson was one of my dad's favourites.
He's still one of mine.
No apologies for that.
I have half a dozen Jolson 78s and a couple of LP's
I remember watching and enjoying the 'Black and White minstrel show".
It was a different time.
It's a complex situation and not all African American folks at the time felt the same level of discomfort and offence as most do today.
https://jolson.org/man/racism/blackface.html
We've moved on to a point where it is unacceptable.
But we lose a bit in the process if we condemn the talent of the past.
And who are the judges of that? What are the guidelines for making such judgements? Is there ok blacking up and not ok blacking up? Can Magda black up but not Sam Newman? I personally think all blacking up is just cheap and tacky.
Absolutely!
The difference is that Sammy Newman refused to acknowledge that his blackface was in any way wrong and offensive to people of colour generally and Nicky Winmar in particular, and he still won’t accept that he did anything wrong. Eddie McGuire was still defending Sam’s blackface as recently as 2020.
Magda’s blackface performance was no less offensive than Sam’s. The difference is that Magda acknowledges that what she did was wrong and hurtful to Indigenous Australians. She has apologised and sought advice from Indigenous Australians about how to make amends. Her willingness to explore how to use her gaff to make things better is admirable.
That’s quite a contrast with the attitude of the owner of Lang Prospecting who can’t bring herself to say whether she agrees with the genocidal beliefs of the previous owner of the company.
Of course, the real bonus out of the Magda blackface controversy resurfacing yet again is that a new audience gets to appreciate the Gina Minehart skits; comedy gold and yet another example of life imitating art.
Magda apologised for herself being racist not her parents.
And who are the judges of that? What are the guidelines for making such judgements? Is there ok blacking up and not ok blacking up? Can Magda black up but not Sam Newman? I personally think all blacking up is just cheap and tacky.
I also thought of the furore when Sam Newman did it.
I disagree, “blackface” can be racist, absolutely it can and has been.
But is it always 100% ? Absolutely not, is it poor taste ? Sure…
But let’s contrast Magda’s comments with our old friend Gina’s… 🦗🦗
When did Gina blackface? Did I miss something?
Magda apologised for herself being racist not her parents.
Why do you have such an obsession with apologies MBB?
The issue is whether the current owner of Hancock Prospecting has the same views on the genocide of Aboriginal people as the previous owner had. It’s a fairly simple question that should have been answered when Gina inherited the company.
Trying to draw attention away from Rinehart’s inability to answer a simple question by dragging up one critic’s past indiscretions is a classic and pathetic “look over there” tactic.
When did Gina blackface? Did I miss something?
Yes, you missed Magda’s contrite apology and willingness to learn from her past mistake.
Blackface is completely unacceptable but it’s nothing compared with Gina’s failure to reject genocide.
Yes, you missed Magda’s contrite apology and willingness to learn from her past mistake.
Blackface is completely unacceptable but it’s nothing compared with Gina’s failure to reject genocide.
Did she apologise of her own volition or when it was pointed out to her that she is a racist?
Also, difference is Magda did something abhorrent, Gina hasn't.
Did she apologise of her own volition or when it was pointed out to her that she is a racist?
Also, difference is Magda did something abhorrent, Gina hasn't.
To suggest that Magda is a racist based on a comedy sketch she did many, many years ago is an overreach. Her tasteless sketch was part of a comedy routine... which is disgusting based on today's moralities and sensitivities, but, embarrassingly, it was a part of the comedy landscape way back then. It was an entertainment performance, with the audience knowing just that - it was pretend. Since that time Magda has more than atoned, with apology and willingness to learn and change. On top of that she has committed much of her time to humanitarian/philanthropic causes - more than ample evidence of her sincerity.
Gina's failure to speak in opposition to her father's appalling attitudes today, leaves the door wide open for any reasonable person to interpret that as agreement or at best, ambivalence, to his inhuman attitudes.
To suggest that Magda is a racist based on a comedy sketch she did many, many years ago is an overreach. Her tasteless sketch was part of a comedy routine... which is disgusting based on today's moralities and sensitivities, but, embarrassingly, it was a part of the comedy landscape way back then. It was an entertainment performance, with the audience knowing just that - it was pretend. Since that time Magda has more than atoned, with apology and willingness to learn and change. On top of that she has committed much of her time to humanitarian/philanthropic causes - more than ample evidence of her sincerity.
Gina's failure to speak in opposition to her father's appalling attitudes today, leaves the door wide open for any reasonable person to interpret that as agreement or at best, ambivalence, to his inhuman attitudes.
I agree. Szubanski is on the public record saying the alt right trolls are quite correct in calling her out on it, and she has no issue with that. I think she has demonstrated she understands the errors of her ways, and has tried to make up for it.
I'm sure team left would be equally as forgiving if photos of Gina in black face emerged.
I'm sure team right missed the memo that nobody is claiming perfection, and that what you do about your errors is as important as the errors themselves. Team right also struggles to understand difference and nuance, and resorts to clutching at straws to maintain the rage, with one supposedly shocking expose after another.
Magda apologised for herself being racist not her parents.
NO ONE is expected to apologise for their parents, some may choose to, but thats their personal choice.
The issue is that the daughter refuses to comment on her fathers beliefs... its easy to say "I hold no such beliefs"
I'm sure team left would be equally as forgiving if photos of Gina in black face emerged.
I'd be especially forgiving if Gina was sterilising herself whilst wearing blackface
Some of the very same people that rallied to attack Carlton's theme song because of it's black face origins, seem absent and silent on Magda's past simply because it doesn't seem to suit the current agenda.
Let's not even discuss the Newman incident, which as I recall was also part of a comedy sketch.
Fat white wealthy lesbian leftist angel of mercy, versus the ageing privileged wealthy white middle aged man in lycra demon racist!
I'm not sure I could find a better or more definitive examples of both "hypocrisy" and "arbitrary" in a such acts, and I'm not sure you'll find a better example of the plasticity of reporting in a post-truth world! It's so plastic some have bent over backwards far enough to kiss their own clacker.
Yet they expect, actually they demand, to be taken seriously! :o
I'll never understand how people can maintain face while adjusting rules of judgement dependant on the target.
(https://i.etsystatic.com/36347695/r/il/7b0fe5/4091883083/il_794xN.4091883083_2ec6.jpg)
Dan to the rescue, Vic Gov has given NA $15M. He is the master at point scoring, go on him though.
Dan to the rescue, Vic Gov has given NA $15M. He is the master at point scoring, go on him though.
Earlier this century the Vic government gave Hancock a 100 year exclusive rights deal to access, mine and develop the swath of land stretching from East Gippsland to Apollo Bay which is full of light metals like titanium sands, rare earths and other precious minerals. At the moment she does nothing with it, because the lease goes up in value day after day, week after week earning her billions on paper for doing nada.
I'm not sure the current move is so altruistic, it might be more about looking after Hancock than NA!
Whether you agree with it or not, it's does show just how far ahead of the opposition Dan's crew are in terms of strategy and implementation. However, keep in mind, like the ports sale, when Hancock won the rights they immediately signed a joint venture agreement with China, so China profits as well!
Federally ports bad, but mining it seems is good, such is the arbitrary nature of politics.
NO ONE is expected to apologise for their parents, some may choose to, but thats their personal choice.
The issue is that the daughter refuses to comment on her fathers beliefs... its easy to say "I hold no such beliefs"
100% NB
Dan to the rescue, Vic Gov has given NA $15M. He is the master at point scoring, go on him though.
What a disgrace, in the weeks the feds gave $2.2B to a tunnel we don't need and stripped $1.7B from hospitals we throw $15M at a sports sponsorship. How in the world are these people making decisions on our behalf!
What a disgrace, in the weeks the feds gave $2.2B to a tunnel we don't need and stripped $1.7B from hospitals we throw $15M at a sports sponsorship. How in the world are these people making decisions on our behalf!
Maybe they get more economic benefit from the comp than the $15m investment ?
Yay the tax payer picks up the tab. Yay!
LP, it's a miracle that an exploration lease was granted over the ground you mention. I'll have to get online see for myself. But the chances of a company ever getting access to that ground are zero. Not a snowballs chance in hell. But the rents will still need to be paid on it, EIS and IA consultants will be required etc etc etc. The alphabet soup of Vic Government bureaucracies will string them along and bleed them dry like leeches.
NO ONE is expected to apologise for their parents, some may choose to, but thats their personal choice.
The issue is that the daughter refuses to comment on her fathers beliefs... its easy to say "I hold no such beliefs"
i really don't see why this is such a big deal. People apologise on others' behalf in all walks of life. If your 2 year old clocks the 2 year old next door, do you refuse to apologise ? In court cases involving serious crime, family members of the perpetrator apologise to the victim's family. If your partner gets on the turps and offends someone close to you, you apologise on their behalf etc. Why is this so hard to understand ?
Some of the very same people that rallied to attack Carlton's theme song because of it's black face origins, seem absent and silent on Magda's past simply because it doesn't seem to suit the current agenda.
Let's not even discuss the Newman incident, which as I recall was also part of a comedy sketch.
Fat white wealthy lesbian leftist angel of mercy, versus the ageing privileged wealthy white middle aged man in lycra demon racist!
I'm not sure I could find a better or more definitive examples of both "hypocrisy" and "arbitrary" in a such acts, and I'm not sure you'll find a better example of the plasticity of reporting in a post-truth world! It's so plastic some have bent over backwards far enough to kiss their own clacker.
Yet they expect, actually they demand, to be taken seriously! :o
I'll never understand how people can maintain face while adjusting rules of judgement dependant on the target.
Yes Stephen Hagan has been remarkably silent about Magda’s blackface. He was the only person promoting the spurious racist origins of our club song and he clammed up when his tenuous argument was ridiculed by by one and all.
Of course, Dr Hagan may have had something to say when Magda’s blackface was an issue three years ago. I don’t really recall. Magda’s honesty and ownership of her wrongdoing at that time meant that the issue died fairly quickly.
That’s in stark contrast to Sam Newman who still maintains that he did nothing wrong and is still defended by his accomplice, Eddie McGuire.
I’m not sure that Newman’s blackface skit could be called comedy. He was attempting to deride Nicky Winmar for his anti-racist activism and it wasn’t humorous at all. Not that humour excuses racist stereotyping and parodying, whether it’s done by Magda, Newman, Alice Kunek or Justin Trudeau.
What a disgrace, in the weeks the feds gave $2.2B to a tunnel we don't need and stripped $1.7B from hospitals we throw $15M at a sports sponsorship. How in the world are these people making decisions on our behalf!
IIRC, he gave $220M to the Docklands Stadium Upgrade in the middle of the pandemic.
Maybe they get more economic benefit from the comp than the $15m investment ?
Netball Australia are broke, can't play their players and now we are going to try and build a case that a sponsor is going to get a return on an investment. Hope its not one of your family members that waits in a tent outside a hospital to be admitted to emergency, next time so we can fund netball!
i really don't see why this is such a big deal. People apologise on others' behalf in all walks of life. If your 2 year old clocks the 2 year old next door, do you refuse to apologise ? In court cases involving serious crime, family members of the perpetrator apologise to the victim's family. If your partner gets on the turps and offends someone close to you, you apologise on their behalf etc. Why is this so hard to understand ?
I think it's a fair question to ask Gina if she believes in the same things her father said.
I'd also be more than willing to apolgise for my children's behaviour up to a point where they are of an age that they can understand right from wrong and become reponsible for their own actions.
We can feel a responsibity for those close to us if our actions facilitated their wrong doings or we failed to intervene when we could have.
But I just don't belive we are responsible in any way for the actions of our ancestors.
We have no control over those deeds or actions...and in many cases our own beliefs may conflict sharply with theirs.
We can be sorry that things they were responsible for occurred...but we shouldn't bear the guilt.
It's too complex a situation because in our own ancestry there would have been many 'victims' of racism and abuse.
What a disgrace, in the weeks the feds gave $2.2B to a tunnel we don't need and stripped $1.7B from hospitals we throw $15M at a sports sponsorship. How in the world are these people making decisions on our behalf!
What tunnel don't we need?
Every single thing being built is about 20 to 30 years late.
I think it's a fair question to ask Gina if she believes in the same things her father said.
I'd also be more than willing to apolgise for my children's behaviour up to a point where they are of an age that they can understand right from wrong and become reponsible for their own actions.
We can feel a responsibity for those close to us if our actions facilitated their wrong doings or we failed to intervene when we could have.
But I just don't belive we are responsible in any way for the actions of our ancestors.
We have no control over those deeds or actions...and in many cases our own beliefs may conflict sharply with theirs.
We can be sorry that things they were responsible for occurred...but we shouldn't bear the guilt.
It's too complex a situation because in our own ancestry there would have been many 'victims' of racism and abuse.
Personally I would try and avoid the word "guilt." It seems to me a word used in turbo mode by the right to wedge and cause trouble. I think a better word is "awareness." Simply having some awareness that social, racial, political and other structures privilege certain groups over others, and when you combine that with even a modicum of decency and empathy (and you're one of the privileged), you try and do your bit to equalise the imbalance. Even if "your bit" is something trivial like speaking up on a football forum.
Netball Australia are broke, can't play their players and now we are going to try and build a case that a sponsor is going to get a return on an investment. Hope its not one of your family members that waits in a tent outside a hospital to be admitted to emergency, next time so we can fund netball!
Its not a simple question of $15m to netball or 5 hospital beds, theres a bigger picture of encouraging people to have healthy active lifestyles, because that reduces chronic health problems from existing, let along clogging up the hospitals.
I'm not sure that Newman’s blackface skit could be called comedy. He was attempting to deride Nicky Winmar for his anti-racist activism and it wasn’t humorous at all. Not that humour excuses racist stereotyping and parodying, whether it’s done by Magda, Newman, Alice Kunek or Justin Trudeau.
Actually Winmar was supposed to be on the show and didn't show up. Throughout the show Sam kept asking Eddie is he here yet with the longer the show went the less likely he was going to turn up. At the last break Newman came out in blackface and said "I'm here bla bla"
Following week he had Winmar's guernsey which was a bulldogs one from memory and he apologised directly to him for any offence and that he wish he had the jumper last week and it wouldn't have happened.
Its not a simple question of $15m to netball or 5 hospital beds, theres a bigger picture of encouraging people to have healthy active lifestyles, because that reduces chronic health problems from existing, let along clogging up the hospitals.
Yes, I'm not opposed to the investment for this very reason, but I'm not going to imagine that it is 100% altruistic either, sorry for my cynicism. :(
Anything that encourages kids to get into activity and off the screens must be a good thing, I write banging away at a keyboard! ::)
My perception is that Newman is THE most insincere person to walk the planet until Trump came along.
Any apology made by him is seen in that light, imho.
Yes, I'm not opposed to the investment for this very reason, but I'm not going to imagine that it is 100% altruistic either, sorry for my cynicism. :(
Anything that encourages kids to get into activity and off the screens must be a good thing, I write banging away at a keyboard! ::)
Im not so fussed about the screens as such, but the obesity etc.
My perception is that Newman is THE most insincere person to walk the planet until Trump came along.
Any apology made by him is seen in that light, imho.
I think it's mostly a character he plays, in real life I've seen him behave quite the opposite.
Im not so fussed about the screens as such, but the obesity etc.
True, but thin and inactive isn't necessarily healthy either, sport and other physical activity brings more than just physical health.
I think it's mostly a character he plays, in real life I've seen him behave quite the opposite.
And thats quite possible, but i still have my perceptions of him, which is almost racist in itself...
Newman, sigh.
My perception is that Newman is THE most insincere person to walk the planet until Trump came along.
Any apology made by him is seen in that light, imho.
And yet, those who know him well and have been through troubled times speak very highly of him for constantly checking in and helping them get through those times of despair.
Netball has a big following, that's a lot of potential votes for Dan.
Get down to Sunshine Hospital ER in the West of Melbourne, it really needs the 15 million....
Netball has a big following, that's a lot of potential votes for Dan.
Get down to Sunshine Hospital ER in the West of Melbourne, it really needs the 15 million....
Agree EB
The state has more debt then ever, the vast majority of businesses are struggling and god help ya if your have a heart attack as the ambulance service is broken. The roads on the north where I live have had potholes the size of basketballs all over them and nothing gets done yet he thinks our state above all other states can afford to spend 15M on this cause. I have to hand it to him he is the ultimate poli. And despite all his games the libs remain quieter then church mice. What a sad state of affairs this state has at the moment politically.
The thing is regardless of how weak the libs are imo you can’t allow this bloke to continue and I just hope the people in this state (excluding the dielhard labour voters of course) remember what he has done to us and don’t have that awful case of amnesia like Dan did when it comes time to send him packing.
And yet, those who know him well and have been through troubled times speak very highly of him for constantly checking in and helping them get through those times of despair.
Years ago as part of pre-season our U18s/19s would have to spend some evenings volunteering with Fr Bob Maguire's mission in and around the city. Mostly KP duty or similar. Celebs would rock up sporadically, some I think looking for cheap publicity. Newman was the only one they crossed paths with who was volunteering on a regular basis.
Years ago as part of pre-season our U18s/19s would have to spend some evenings volunteering with Fr Bob Maguire's mission in and around the city. Mostly KP duty or similar. Celebs would rock up sporadically, some I think looking for cheap publicity. Newman was the only one they crossed paths with who was volunteering on a regular basis.
That's all well and good, and he deserves credit for that, but it's cold comfort to those marginalised individuals and groups who have to deal with his "jokes' at their expense, and who are already doing it tough to begin with.
That's all well and good, and he deserves credit for that, but it's cold comfort to those marginalised individuals and groups who have to deal with his "jokes' at their expense, and who are already doing it tough to begin with.
I suppose so, but when you are there serving up some hot meals there is nobody who makes jokes about their circumstance more than themselves, in my experience they have no high horse and some of those jokes they may actually have taught Newman.
Personally, I'm not much for judging people by words it's actions I look for. I suspect if the kids are still doing the volunteering, I think they are, then they are unlikely to run across the media and social media types who want to make a pariah out of the likes of the "low brow and old school types of Sam Newman or Fatty Vautin". By that I refer to intellectual mammoths like the trio of Susie O'Brien, Rita Panahi or Andrew Bolt. If that filthy trio come across unfortunates they are more like to take the advice of the late Bill Hicks and "Step on the gas!", yet they get front page credit and earn top dollars slagging off the likes of Newman and Vautin day in day out!
Even worse, as much as I hate to admit it, that filthy trio who are sparklingly clean outside but full of stank, continually sway and sculpt our society and much of local humanity!
........................................
Personally, I'm not much for judging people by words it's actions I look for. I suspect if the kids are still doing the volunteering, I think they are, then they are unlikely to run across the media and social media types who want to make a pariah out of the likes of the "low brow and old school types of Sam Newman or Fatty Vautin". By that I refer to intellectual mammoths like the trio of Susie O'Brien, Rita Panahi or Andrew Bolt. If that filthy trio come across unfortunates they are more like to take the advice of the late Bill Hicks and "Step on the gas!", yet they get front page credit and earn top dollars slagging off the likes of Newman and Vautin day in day out!
Panahi and Newman seem to have an excellent relationship, judging by my last few minutes of googling. I'd be very surprised if those three have any issue with Newman, given their shared crusade and War On Woke.
Do the girls know who Victoria is named in honour of?
Those bagging out Dan should have a hard look at the bloke running the show on the other side. Neither of them are worthy of anybody's vote.
Those bagging out Dan should have a hard look at the bloke running the show on the other side. Neither of them are worthy of anybody's vote.
The last 8 years has seen Melbourne go from one of the best cities in the world to an absolute crap hole. Labour has to go.
The last 8 years has seen Melbourne go from one of the best cities in the world to an absolute crap hole. Labour has to go.
If you're going to throw out something you don't like, shouldn't you first ensure you've something better to replace it with?
In 2015, 16 and 17, Melbourne was ranked 1st according to the Global Liveability Ranking. In 2018 and 19, it was 2nd. In 2021 it was equal 8th, and 2022 equal 10th. Clearly it's a drop, but Top 10 is still excellent. For most of Andrews' 2 terms, Melbourne is 1 or 2.
If you're going to throw out something you don't like, shouldn't you first ensure you've something better to replace it with?
How do you ensure that with any election? Also wasn't voted in because he was inspiring, Scomo was kicked out.
How do you ensure that with any election? Also wasn't voted in because he was inspiring, Scomo was kicked out.
But hasn’t he been a welcome breath of fresh air !
And in answer to your earlier question it’s named in honor of Victoria Nichols 👍🏼
How long do I have to ignore you before you get the message?
How long do I have to ignore you before you get the message?
Interestingly, you’ve been grinding my gears for a while now, I’m glad to hear that it’s because you’re trying.
How about you just stop being a [inappropriate language deleted] and talk real issues ?
I’ll try to play by the same rules 👍🏼
PS
I’m not sure why you feel the way you do because I generally enjoy your contributions (with exceptions) but if you feel I’ve slighted you don’t be bashful, hit me up with a pm.
Cheers
But hasn’t he been a welcome breath of fresh air !
And in answer to your earlier question it’s named in honor of Victoria Nichols 👍🏼
I was sceptical about Albo, but yes you are correct he has been a breath of fresh air. Dunno if Dan is too happy with some of the cuts to Vic but they had to be done.
Do the girls know who Victoria is named in honour of?
My Mrs said the exactly the same thing.
Do the girls know who Victoria is named in honour of?
What has that got to do with anything?
It is a crap name for a state, but Queen Victoria was one of the most benign monarchs of the colonial period.
The last 8 years has seen Melbourne go from one of the best cities in the world to an absolute crap hole. Labour has to go.
It's Labor; terrible spelling but that's their choice.
On what basis is Melbourne a crap hole? The 2022 most liveable city rankings have Melbourne as Australia's most liveable city and 10th in the world.
As Jon Faine pointed out in the Age a couple of weeks ago, Dan Andrews has a secret weapon that will keep him in the Premier's job: Matthew Guy ::)
Actually Winmar was supposed to be on the show and didn't show up. Throughout the show Sam kept asking Eddie is he here yet with the longer the show went the less likely he was going to turn up. At the last break Newman came out in blackface and said "I'm here bla bla"
Following week he had Winmar's guernsey which was a bulldogs one from memory and he apologised directly to him for any offence and that he wish he had the jumper last week and it wouldn't have happened.
Yes, there's footage of Newman and Winmar shaking hands that was recorded and shown on the Footy Show. However, Newman was forced to apologise as part of a settlement Channel 9 reached with Winmar. Newman later broke a confidentiality agreement by speaking about the forced apology. Years later, Winmar talked about how much the blackface incident hurt him and how insincere Newman's forced apology was.
Newman was forced to apologise to Winmar again after he, Mike Sheahan and Don Scott claimed that Winmar's Victoria Park gesture wasn't in response to the racist abuse directed at him and Gilbert McAdam. Newman claimed that activists had “morphed” the moment to suit their political agenda ... which has more than a little to do with his political agenda.
It makes little sense why Winmar would be signally to feral Collingwood fans that he has guts. Not sure what Sheahan and co were really thinking?
It makes little sense why Winmar would be signally to feral Collingwood fans that he has guts. Not sure what Sheahan and co were really thinking?
I'd like to believe that they weren't thinking at all.
Ludbey intimates quite clearly (without stating it explicitly) that he was in earshot of Winmar and McAdam, and heard Winmar say 3 times "I'm black and proud to be black." Assuming he's telling the truth, there's nothing more to say.
Those three good ol boys supposedly got their story from Tony Shaw. Another photographer on the day corroborated Ludbey's version. The HS editor had to choose between the "gutsy effort" interpretation from Shaw and the Ludbey version, and decided the former would be the official story. I guess it's too much of a stretch for those three to check the story with Ludbey, McAdam or Winmar.
Good to see the HS was the epitome of unbiased reporting and quality journalism even back then.
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/nicky-winmar-suing-sam-newman-and-co-hosts-for-attempt-to-revise-historical-moment/q5wx3c4g7
It makes little sense why Winmar would be signally to feral Collingwood fans that he has guts. Not sure what Sheahan and co were really thinking?
As has been said, they weren't thinking. Its ironic that they suggested what Winmar was thinking at that time, how would they know? Only Winmar would know and he has stated a million times categorically that he was pointing to the colour of skin and was proud of it. It staggers me how people try not only to put words in the mouths of others, but also thoughts in their heads.
The only thing that you know for certain in this debate is that both sides willingly stretch reality to win the turf war.
As 3rd parties to this, we should not take one side or the other, just acknowledge that both sides exist, and in the absence of hard evidence we should disregard them equally! ;)
As has been said, they weren't thinking. Its ironic that they suggested what Winmar was thinking at that time, how would they know? Only Winmar would know and he has stated a million times categorically that he was pointing to the colour of skin and was proud of it. It staggers me how people try not only to put words in the mouths of others, but also thoughts in their heads.
Exactly what I have also heard, GTC, numerous times... and it makes perfect sense.
Ludbey intimates quite clearly (without stating it explicitly) that he was in earshot of Winmar and McAdam, and heard Winmar say 3 times "I'm black and proud to be black." Assuming he's telling the truth, there's nothing more to say.
Those three good ol boys supposedly got their story from Tony Shaw. Another photographer on the day corroborated Ludbey's version. The HS editor had to choose between the "gutsy effort" interpretation from Shaw and the Ludbey version, and decided the former would be the official story. I guess it's too much of a stretch for those three to check the story with Ludbey, McAdam or Winmar.
Good to see the HS was the epitome of unbiased reporting and quality journalism even back then.
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/nicky-winmar-suing-sam-newman-and-co-hosts-for-attempt-to-revise-historical-moment/q5wx3c4g7
Gilbert McAdam has backed up Winmar's version many times - and he's part of the media pack.
It took a couple of days before it was widely appreciated that Winmar and McAdam were having a crack at racist supporters. The Age picked it up and had an editorial on racism at the footy. That was followed by Allan McAlister's cringeworthy comment that Collingwood did not have an issue with Indigenous Australians, "... as long as they conduct themselves like white people, well, off the field, everyone will admire and respect them."
Gilbert McAdam has backed up Winmar's version many times - and he's part of the media pack.
It took a couple of days before it was widely appreciated that Winmar and McAdam were having a crack at racist supporters. The Age picked it up and had an editorial on racism at the footy. That was followed by Allan McAlister's cringeworthy comment that Collingwood did not have an issue with Indigenous Australians, "... as long as they conduct themselves like white people, well, off the field, everyone will admire and respect them."
Thanks. Some interesting info.
Gilbert McAdam has backed up Winmar's version many times - and he's part of the media pack.
It took a couple of days before it was widely appreciated that Winmar and McAdam were having a crack at racist supporters. The Age picked it up and had an editorial on racism at the footy. That was followed by Allan McAlister's cringeworthy comment that Collingwood did not have an issue with Indigenous Australians, "... as long as they conduct themselves like white people, well, off the field, everyone will admire and respect them."
If I recall correctly that abhorrent comment marked the deathnell of McAlister's tenure as president of Rottingwood. Not too long after that Eddie took the reins.
And, yes, I also recall Gilbert Mac making those comments re Nicky W... as well as others. I really didn't believe to this day that there was any other credible statement re what was Nicky W was emphasizing to the toothless brigade over the fence when pointing to his skin.
Gina Rinehart spotted at Trump’s presidential bid announcement (https://www.9news.com.au/world/donald-trump-2024-gina-rinehart-spotted-at-trump-presidential-bid-announcement/cd4f77b0-a0dc-44a6-8232-29495b379a8c), 9 News.
Birds of a feather. Clearly, she didn’t want to repudiate Daddy’s call to sterilise Indigenous Australians because doing so may have ruffled a few of her fellow birds’ feathers. Even a hard right winger like Rupert Murdoch is walking away from Trump but Gina is like the daughter Trump wishes he had.
Gina Rinehart spotted at Trump’s presidential bid announcement (https://www.9news.com.au/world/donald-trump-2024-gina-rinehart-spotted-at-trump-presidential-bid-announcement/cd4f77b0-a0dc-44a6-8232-29495b379a8c), 9 News.
Birds of a feather. Clearly, she didn’t want to repudiate Daddy’s call to sterilise Indigenous Australians because doing so may have ruffled a few of her fellow birds’ feathers. Even a hard right winger like Rupert Murdoch is walking away from Trump but Gina is like the daughter Trump wishes he had.
Minehart has always been in Humpty Dumpty's camp. She was urging the Australian Government to adopt his hairbrained policies in the run up to his first candidature ::)
I reckon Netball Australia will be glad that Rinehart took her money and walked.
I reckon Netball Australia will be glad that Rinehart took her money and walked.
Well Dickhead Dan is making us pay for it.
Even a hard right winger like Rupert Murdoch is walking away from Trump but Gina is like the daughter Trump wishes he had.
Murdoch is pretty mercenary, I'm not sure you can read anything into his actions other than staying on the coat tails of the winning side. Rinehart is similarly cruel, and Rinehart is smarter than Trump she could chew him up and spit him out with little trouble.
You have to keep in mind the policy position of the Red states, they might be aligned with Rinehart's US mining interests. btw., And by Red states I mean more than US prefectures, who are the major shareholders in Rinehart's domestic operations, as I understand she is in bed with China and there is little doubt China would prefer Trump over Biden.
There may be more "Red" in that fundraising than Americans care to admit! :o
Finally, yes I get it Trump boosters will claim Trump talks tougher on China than Biden, but the devil is in the detail and Trump's actions do not match his words. Native Americans had a label for that type of talker! ;)
Well Dickhead Dan is making us pay for it.
Victoria sponsors and/or financially supports many sports in our state and nationally. I guess the Grand Prix is a good example along with helping out some AFL clubs with ground development. Many Victorians are sh1tty forking out $M40-$M50 annually on these metal boxes whizzing about in circles... however, it does promote -- in a tourism sense -- Melbourne and Australia to the motor sport world.
Well Dickhead Dan is making us pay for it.
No different to paying for the Grand Prix, Moto GP, Bells Beach, the Australian Open and all of the other sporting and non-sporting tourist promotions that are said to attract tourist dollars to our fair State.
Well Dickhead Dan is making us pay for it.
I hope hes not a CSC member...
No different to paying for the Grand Prix, Moto GP, Bells Beach, the Australian Open and all of the other sporting and non-sporting tourist promotions that are said to attract tourist dollars to our fair State.
There's a pretty big difference but you know that.
Yep, I thought there was bipartisan agreement that money should only be thrown at male-dominated sports.
Yep, I thought there was bipartisan agreement that money should only be thrown at male-dominated sports.
Not that difference.
There’s another one?
There's a pretty big difference but you know that.
What is the difference?
Visit Victoria’s sponsorship of Netball Australia guarantees that key international and domestic games will be played in Victoria. Netball is one of the most popular participatory and spectator sports in the country and in significant parts of the Commonwealth. It’s a good deal.
Well Dickhead Dan is making us pay for it.
While this language is marginal, politicians of all persuasions are fair game in my opinion. Just don’t go too far.
While this language is marginal, politicians of all persuasions are fair game in my opinion. Just don’t go too far.
Even Trump?
What is the difference?
Visit Victoria’s sponsorship of Netball Australia guarantees that key international and domestic games will be played in Victoria. Netball is one of the most popular participatory and spectator sports in the country and in significant parts of the Commonwealth. It’s a good deal.
No one watches it. That's why they're broke.
No one watches it. That's why they're broke.
I think you'll find that plenty of people watch Aussie Netball. Although anecdotal, Mrs Baggers (who played netball) and her mates gather around the teev to watch games. And if you do a tour around local sporting grounds on the w/e you'll see that netball is very well supported and popular, with plenty of local businesses putting up their signage. When a popular sport is in trouble financially, you don't look at the sport... you look at the administration.
I suspect Victoria sponsors this sport for very similar reasons to why Gina sponsored the sport. Branding. Brand awareness and promotion. To be seen as favourable by association.
Even Trump?
Especially Trumpty Dumpty... a name given to him by a Murdoch NY newspaper!
What is the difference?
Visit Victoria’s sponsorship of Netball Australia guarantees that key international and domestic games will be played in Victoria. Netball is one of the most popular participatory and spectator sports in the country and in significant parts of the Commonwealth. It’s a good deal.
This is a massive stretch DJC.
I don't need to denigrate Netball to talk about the financial windfall that follows the Grand Prix around the world. Its an epic money generating machine.
Netball would love to have 1/100th of the financial drawcard that the Grand Prix has.
No one watches it. That's why they're broke.
Foxtel would beg to differ; the Super Netball grand final had a larger TV audience than the NBL, US Open final, etc, etc.
This is a massive stretch DJC.
I don't need to denigrate Netball to talk about the financial windfall that follows the Grand Prix around the world. Its an epic money generating machine.
Netball would love to have 1/100th of the financial drawcard that the Grand Prix has.
Absolutely Thry, but Visit Victoria’s investment in netball is minuscule in comparison to the dollars put into the GP, Australian Open, etc.
And let’s not forget that F1 keeps the licensing fees so high that they keep all the financial benefits of holding a race. In the end, the Government really just subsidises businesses indirectly.
Especially Trumpty Dumpty... a name given to him by a Murdoch NY newspaper!
Thanks but I was asking the moderator.
We can't call other posters names, that's a given.
Opposition players and coaches are a free for all.
Politicians are fair game except be careful with Dan Andrews?
Even Trump?
Yes, the same applies to Humpty Dumpty, Albo, Dutton, Xi Jinping, Putin, Matthew Guy, Andrews, etc. Have a crack by all means, but stick within the code of conduct's ban on excessive swearing. I'm surprised that your "D1ckhead Dan" got past the profanity filter :o
I actually thought it was a quite clever transition from "Dictator" :)
Absolutely Thry, but Visit Victoria’s investment in netball is minuscule in comparison to the dollars put into the GP, Australian Open, etc.
The returns (if any) are equally miniscule though is the point I am making.
https://business.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/1551909/tourism_australian_grand_prix_report_2011.pdf
Like I said, I dont need to denigrate Netball but I know what would likely occur if we lost either of the events, and that tourism to the state would be drastically reduced which is extremely bad news.
The returns (if any) are equally miniscule though is the point I am making.
https://business.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/1551909/tourism_australian_grand_prix_report_2011.pdf
Like I said, I dont need to denigrate Netball but I know what would likely occur if we lost either of the events, and that tourism to the state would be drastically reduced which is extremely bad news.
Disagree, relatively the returns are massive.
All those young girls watching on tv and then playing with their local club, buying uniforms, runners, playing finals, buying trophys, having pie/pizza fundraising nights etc.
At a senior level I'd imagine the finals might be in Victoria...? leading to a need for accommodation, transport and food for teams, officials and fans who will travel to watch their team hopefully win the big one.
Then theres these active healthy kids and women NOT sitting on the couch, NOT being obese, NOT developing diabetes etc, etc...
What are we talking...? $10 Million or something ?
I wouldn't mind the cash and you probably wouldn't say no either, but in the public sphere, seriously, what do you get for $10 mil ?
15 mill is a cheap spend to grab some more votes imho, agree with NT that funding sport of any kind brings health benefits which is very good but I think Dans motives in this case are more skewed towards netballers 18 years and over plus their parents who might like the idea of their favorite sport being supported/saved/funded and cast their votes in the State Election accordingly.
You might call it Netball barrelling given Netball is the largest team sport played in Australia....
15 mill is a cheap spend to grab some more votes imho, agree with NT that funding sport of any kind brings health benefits which is very good but I think Dans motives in this case are more skewed towards netballers 18 years and over plus their parents who might like the idea of their favorite sport being supported/saved/funded and cast their votes in the State Election accordingly.
You might call it Netball barrelling given Netball is the largest team sport played in Australia....
"Netball barrelling" is sadly just a given EB, doesn't matter who's sitting in the big chair
"Netball barrelling" is sadly just a given EB, doesn't matter who's sitting in the big chair
Dont disagree NT, Im sure if the other Guy was Premier and wanting to shore up a few votes he would have done similar.
Id love to believe the sponsorship would be done for the right reasons ie healthier outcomes/enjoyment aspect for netballers but the cynic in me just sees political advantage with public money as the main motivation.
Andrews, Guy and Gina dont enthuse me as a charitable caring bunch no matter who is providing the money.....as Bon Scott wrote in the song " Dog eat Dog....
Hear the kind man ask his friends
Hey, what's in it for me
Disagree, relatively the returns are massive.
All those young girls watching on tv and then playing with their local club, buying uniforms, runners, playing finals, buying trophys, having pie/pizza fundraising nights etc.
At a senior level I'd imagine the finals might be in Victoria...? leading to a need for accommodation, transport and food for teams, officials and fans who will travel to watch their team hopefully win the big one.
Then theres these active healthy kids and women NOT sitting on the couch, NOT being obese, NOT developing diabetes etc, etc...
What are we talking...? $10 Million or something ?
I wouldn't mind the cash and you probably wouldn't say no either, but in the public sphere, seriously, what do you get for $10 mil ?
I think you are missing what I am saying.
The Grand Prix is a massive money spinner for the state as is an Aussie Open.
Netball can generate as much expenditure as you can drum up, but it isnt going to bring 320 000 tourists to the state let alone the country.
Netball can generate as much expenditure as you can drum up, but it isnt going to bring 320 000 tourists to the state let alone the country.
Probably true, but you might be surprised by the global level of participation.
For example, I do not know much about netball, but I do know from an associate that in Christchurch NZ on one occasion the Golden Oldies Rugby Tournament (> 40s), brought 150K people into the town for just a one week event.
I suspect on a global scale Netball is bigger than Golden Oldies Rugby.
I think you are missing what I am saying.
The Grand Prix is a massive money spinner for the state as is an Aussie Open.
Netball can generate as much expenditure as you can drum up, but it isnt going to bring 320 000 tourists to the state let alone the country.
I'm not missing that, but sheer numbers of tourists isn't the be all and end all, unless the bottom line is your only measuring stick...
I'm not missing that, but sheer numbers of tourists isn't the be all and end all, unless the bottom line is your only measuring stick...
Its not my only measuring stick, its just one more.
You said relatively the returns are massive in your previous post, and there isnt a snowflakes chance in hell that the international audience pays attention to Melbourne for Netball like it does for the F1 or the Aus Open.
Anyway, I called out someone else for a similar assertion, posted some evidence saying actually, even data from 10 years ago shows its more lucractive, and am arguing the same point. You can agree to disagree with me and move on if you wish.
Its not my only measuring stick, its just one more.
You said relatively the returns are massive in your previous post, and there isnt a snowflakes chance in hell that the international audience pays attention to Melbourne for Netball like it does for the F1 or the Aus Open.
Anyway, I called out someone else for a similar assertion, posted some evidence saying actually, even data from 10 years ago shows its more lucractive, and am arguing the same point. You can agree to disagree with me and move on if you wish.
The point is that Victoria will get a return on the $3M per year that it has invested in Netball Australia over the next five years. The deal involves at least one international Test match played in Melbourne each year, the Diamonds holding their high performance training camps in Victoria and the 2023 Super Netball Grand Final will be in Victoria. The netball audience is a very different demographic to that attracted to other major events, and that is a very important marketing tool.
Will the netball investment have the same return as the hundreds of millions invested in Formula 1 since 1996? Of course not. Is it a worthwhile investment? Absolutely!
Its not my only measuring stick, its just one more.
You said relatively the returns are massive in your previous post, and there isnt a snowflakes chance in hell that the international audience pays attention to Melbourne for Netball like it does for the F1 or the Aus Open.
Anyway, I called out someone else for a similar assertion, posted some evidence saying actually, even data from 10 years ago shows its more lucractive, and am arguing the same point. You can agree to disagree with me and move on if you wish.
I’ve never made any assertion about tennis or petrolheads, that’s a discussion you can have with yourself or others who may be interested.
My point is in the bang for buck at grassroots level, mums, dads and kids primarily is a big payback for the (relatively) piissy amount of $15m.
I call total Bulldust on the value of the GP to Victoria and everyday Victorians. No single politician or department has ever put out a realistic, rigorously determined figure that can be backed up with real data.
I call total Bulldust on the value of the GP to Victoria and everyday Victorians. No single politician or department has ever put out a realistic, rigorously determined figure that can be backed up with real data.
Im with you EB. I love F1 but the money spent by the government on it and other sports is abhorrent. $250M to the Marvel redevelopment (to a Billion dollar organisation no less) during Covid whilst people were dying, losing their houses and business. Disgusting.
I call total Bulldust on the value of the GP to Victoria and everyday Victorians. No single politician or department has ever put out a realistic, rigorously determined figure that can be backed up with real data.
They key word there is 'realistic'.
I am very wary of anyone who puts out a 'realistic' figure. There are far too many moving parts to get a realistic figure.
As an example, i went to Austin, Texas for the first ever F1 Grand Prix they had there as part of my honeymoon. No way in hell i would've gone there for any other reason. How would Austin know this though if they did a 'realistic' breakdown?
Now, my honeymoon planning started with USA. No time of year, nothing, just America.
Looking at events we could take in decided on the time, ultimately, it was NBA, NFL and F1. We planned our trip to see who we wanted to see and where. Essentially, i flew into america 4 weeks before the F1, and flew out 2 weeks after. No chance they could attribute that to the F1.
I flew into, stayed in and hired a car from San Antonio because Austin was too expensive. (SA to Austin, similar time/distance to Geelong to Melbourne). Most of the eating i did was in San Antonio, except for what i ate during the 3 days i was at the track.
There is no way to track the effect that it had on and around Austin based on my experience, and there are plenty others like it.
It'd be the same thing for Melbourne. You can have a guess, but there is no way you'd get a realistic (read accurate) figure.
They key word there is 'realistic'.
I am very wary of anyone who puts out a 'realistic' figure. There are far too many moving parts to get a realistic figure.
As an example, i went to Austin, Texas for the first ever F1 Grand Prix they had there as part of my honeymoon. No way in hell i would've gone there for any other reason. How would Austin know this though if they did a 'realistic' breakdown?
Now, my honeymoon planning started with USA. No time of year, nothing, just America.
Looking at events we could take in decided on the time, ultimately, it was NBA, NFL and F1. We planned our trip to see who we wanted to see and where. Essentially, i flew into america 4 weeks before the F1, and flew out 2 weeks after. No chance they could attribute that to the F1.
I flew into, stayed in and hired a car from San Antonio because Austin was too expensive. (SA to Austin, similar time/distance to Geelong to Melbourne). Most of the eating i did was in San Antonio, except for what i ate during the 3 days i was at the track.
There is no way to track the effect that it had on and around Austin based on my experience, and there are plenty others like it.
It'd be the same thing for Melbourne. You can have a guess, but there is no way you'd get a realistic (read accurate) figure.
Its part of a broader spectrum.
The Australian Open.
The Grand Prix.
ICONIC events to the world. I hate the F1 and couldnt give a rats about it, but since Adelaide lost it, no one knows anything about the place or where it is.
Sydney drive an F1 car onto the Harbour Bridge for a reason. Iconic and it would cost a boatload to stage that crap.
When you go round the world, the AFL is something that gives us a bit of attention, because people know we are crazy Aussies that play contact sports without protection.
I havent been interested in F1 since Michael Schumacher was racing and cigarettes were still sponsoring cars, but I know enough to understand the international pulling power of it. Even the MotoGp down in Phillip Island is renowned in the racing circles. My evidence is mainly anecdotal. Melbourne's reputation as sporting capital of Australia is attributed largely to winning the Grand Prix hosting off Adelaide, having the MCG, and hosting the Australian Open.
Lucky for us we have that stuff, because the climate in the other cities is infinitely better most of the year round, as is the wine!
They key word there is 'realistic'.
I am very wary of anyone who puts out a 'realistic' figure. There are far too many moving parts to get a realistic figure.
As an example, i went to Austin, Texas for the first ever F1 Grand Prix they had there as part of my honeymoon. No way in hell i would've gone there for any other reason. How would Austin know this though if they did a 'realistic' breakdown?
Now, my honeymoon planning started with USA. No time of year, nothing, just America.
Looking at events we could take in decided on the time, ultimately, it was NBA, NFL and F1. We planned our trip to see who we wanted to see and where. Essentially, i flew into america 4 weeks before the F1, and flew out 2 weeks after. No chance they could attribute that to the F1.
I flew into, stayed in and hired a car from San Antonio because Austin was too expensive. (SA to Austin, similar time/distance to Geelong to Melbourne). Most of the eating i did was in San Antonio, except for what i ate during the 3 days i was at the track.
There is no way to track the effect that it had on and around Austin based on my experience, and there are plenty others like it.
It'd be the same thing for Melbourne. You can have a guess, but there is no way you'd get a realistic (read accurate) figure.
Well said, K.
If you're looking for an exact/quantifiable $ amount on your investment of sponsorship, it will be just about impossible to come up with a figure. Ball park, big ball park, figure... maybe. Sponsorship is an art as much as a science. It's also an on-going commitment to the event.
Sponsorship is a big picture investment. There are so many intangibles yet also huge benefits when placed correctly and done well. Share of mind and branding, I think the ad agencies gurus call it and then how the investor in sponsorship uses their sponsorship. With Melbourne branding itself as a sporting capital and proving it with staging international events it will be perceived as 'big' and an action place... a place for global travellers to put on their agenda of places to visit. Puts us on the map, and if not us, it would be someone else getting the global media attention.
I think it was NB (NorthernBlue) who mentioned, and very accurately so, all the flow on benefits of sponsorship. All the flow-on jobs created. My bro (an industrial electrician) is often in charge of the huge gennies needed at these major events, an enormous job which creates plenty of employment opportunities. Just one example.
The local plumber in a country town who has his signage on the wing of the footy oval, will get some business from the signage but in a variety of ways, directly through his/her mobile no. on the sign, confidence gained from those who've used him/her before to recommend and keep him/her top of mind for next time... then there are the events the plumbers attends with the club, the signwriter who created the sign and so on.