Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 23, 2023, 04:11:48 pm

Title: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: crashlander on March 23, 2023, 04:11:48 pm
Played in Sydney on Saturday 1st April at 1635, and we're not on free to air TV
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 24, 2023, 11:14:50 am
With returns by George (possibly to this week) and Walshy in the next few, it poses the question of who makes way.
LOB has been the sub two weeks running (no pun intended) and with Blacres, Ollie and couple of others making the wings their own, I see him getting pushed into the twos meaning someone from the 22 would go to the sub bench plus one other would need to make way, but who?
I assume we will play two rucks.
Players on the chopping block after round one were Owies, Martin and Fisher. Martin succumbed to injury (we think) and Owies and Fisher were persisted with and played good games. But were they good enough?
Ed "The Rookie" Curnow looked in all sorts in the practice games. In rounds 1 and 2, he has taken some pretty handy scalps in Prestia and Guthrie. After a year out, he has lost none of his endurance/gut running and grit and Vossy has stated he is part of the plan (I suspect until form suggests otherwise).
Gov has been much maligned these two weeks but I'm prepared to accept Good Gov/Bad Gov for now because structurally his is vital to us. Played on Dusty at times last week and on Cameron this week and wasn't disgraced (I'd have to watch the game again but live I thought Cameron capitalised on mismatches he created rather beating his opponent one on one).
Thoughts as to who makes way?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 24, 2023, 11:41:09 am
I realise AFL Coaches love certainty and consistency, but I can see the way the game is heading that there is potential for a club that adopts and manages a good rotation policy to be streets ahead of the opposition at the end of the season. They will also be ahead of the opposition in terms of player retention, especially in the way they can manage senior players.

I think in the long term it is is inevitable that clubs will have certain specialist players who are on the list to do a specific job against specific opposition or at specific venues, for this reason the idea of playing every round needs to become redundant, and perhaps the connection of player wages to match payments also needs revision.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 24, 2023, 12:14:57 pm
With returns by George (possibly to this week) and Walshy in the next few, it poses the question of who makes way.
LOB has been the sub two weeks running (no pun intended) and with Blacres, Ollie and couple of others making the wings their own, I see him getting pushed into the twos meaning someone from the 22 would go to the sub bench plus one other would need to make way, but who?
I assume we will play two rucks.
Players on the chopping block after round one were Owies, Martin and Fisher. Martin succumbed to injury (we think) and Owies and Fisher were persisted with and played good games. But were they good enough?
Ed "The Rookie" Curnow looked in all sorts in the practice games. In rounds 1 and 2, he has taken some pretty handy scalps in Prestia and Guthrie. After a year out, he has lost none of his endurance/gut running and grit and Vossy has stated he is part of the plan (I suspect until form suggests otherwise).
Gov has been much maligned these two weeks but I'm prepared to accept Good Gov/Bad Gov for now because structurally his is vital to us. Played on Dusty at times last week and on Cameron this week and wasn't disgraced (I'd have to watch the game again but live I thought Cameron capitalised on mismatches he created rather beating his opponent one on one).
Thoughts as to who makes way?

SOS imo
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: BluePhantom on March 24, 2023, 12:39:25 pm
SOS imo
No Way!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 24, 2023, 12:45:34 pm
With returns by George (possibly to this week) and Walshy in the next few, it poses the question of who makes way.
LOB has been the sub two weeks running (no pun intended) and with Blacres, Ollie and couple of others making the wings their own, I see him getting pushed into the twos meaning someone from the 22 would go to the sub bench plus one other would need to make way, but who?
I assume we will play two rucks.
Players on the chopping block after round one were Owies, Martin and Fisher. Martin succumbed to injury (we think) and Owies and Fisher were persisted with and played good games. But were they good enough?
Ed "The Rookie" Curnow looked in all sorts in the practice games. In rounds 1 and 2, he has taken some pretty handy scalps in Prestia and Guthrie. After a year out, he has lost none of his endurance/gut running and grit and Vossy has stated he is part of the plan (I suspect until form suggests otherwise).
Gov has been much maligned these two weeks but I'm prepared to accept Good Gov/Bad Gov for now because structurally his is vital to us. Played on Dusty at times last week and on Cameron this week and wasn't disgraced (I'd have to watch the game again but live I thought Cameron capitalised on mismatches he created rather beating his opponent one on one).
Thoughts as to who makes way?
Agree on McGovern, watertight in defense he is not and he will probably lose us some games but he makes Weitering and Young better in particular and gives us better structure down back.
He needs selected opponents so he can do his thing without too much damage from his opponent but I prefer him to Plowman and Kemp at this stage.
Cameron is a difficult matchup and because he kicks straight you can look bad real quickly.
McGoverns strength is his rebound and taking those intercept marks.
Tom Stewart doesn't get the most difficult opponent, he gets the easy one that he can run off and rack up the rebound kicks, that's just how those roles work . Kemp long term would replace McGovern but he needs more training and experience..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 24, 2023, 12:54:46 pm
No Way!

I think for team balance as we looked better with TDK and Pitto playing together.

If Gov is moved on EOY then SOS plays in defence for mine.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 24, 2023, 12:58:44 pm
Agree on McGovern, watertight in defense he is not and he will probably lose us some games but he makes Weitering and Young better in particular and gives us better structure down back.
imho, All our D50 are a bit flaky at the moment, all we can ask for is that the win more than they lose, and hope the rest of the team does the same. Probably the most consistent has been Newman.

Saad was better this week, cleaner, he needs to be that way or he loses his advantage. Doc is still a bit fumbly, as is Gov and Young, but they all stood up at the right moment and took significant marks. Weiters was a bit off this week, but after an early poke in the eye and squashed nose he might have an excuse for that.

Which reminds me, I have to ask this again, how the feck is it blokes in the  200cm tall bracket like Weiters, Cripps, BigH can't seem to get awarded frees for high contact, it's just bizarre?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: madbluboy on March 24, 2023, 01:00:44 pm
What was Hawkins trying to do?
Mark? No.
Spoil? No.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 24, 2023, 01:00:54 pm
I think for team balance as we looked better with TDK and Pitto playing together.

If Gov is moved on EOY then SOS plays in defence for mine.
In D50 Gov has SoJ easily covered, the club would be inventing a role for SoJ that he isn't suit to.

Before we even worry about that we have to retain TDK or collect someone like BBoH!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 24, 2023, 01:01:23 pm
What was Hawkins trying to do?
Mark? No.
Spoil? No.
Eye gouge? Yes!

He latched onto the right side of Weiters face, and wasn't penalised!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 24, 2023, 01:02:26 pm
In D50 Gov has SoJ easily covered, the club would be inventing a role for SoJ that he isn't suit to.

Before we even worry about that we have to retain TDK or collect someone like BBoH!

He played defence under 18
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 24, 2023, 01:12:57 pm
He played defence under 18
It's not going to help him.

And really, he came into contention playing as a forward in TAC Cup.

I could list dozens of AFL players who were different players in juniors, for example Setterfield was a KPP, Weiters spent more time in F50 than in D50, I think even BigH and BenH swapped roles and ends at times as juniors and have enter AFL as opposites.

AFL is a brutal business, and clubs have to be ruthless to win a flag.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 24, 2023, 01:32:39 pm
What was Hawkins trying to do?
Mark? No.
Spoil? No.
He has form, should be looked at.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: PaulP on March 24, 2023, 01:44:46 pm
Hawkins is an odd case IMO. Seems to have minor brain fades from time to time, yet generally, to my eyes, seems a pretty clean and fair player. Almost like a gentle giant. Given his size, he has the potential to be a Lockett-style wrecking ball, even allowing for rule changes across different eras, and to inflict more damage than he does.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on March 24, 2023, 06:00:50 pm
He has form, should be looked at.
He got Weiters, and he whacked someone else again.

He is the most 'accident' prone player going around because he keeps 'accidentally' whacking people across the head.

Superstar discount.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on March 24, 2023, 08:35:09 pm
SOS imo

Bold comment, Pinot. I suspect you are right but putting a critical eye on JSOS is tantamount to sacrilege and slaying Bambi. When I look at JSOS, I pretend his name is not Silvagni... helps objectivity. With the heart, I want him to be a 200 game player and hold a cup high, and love his endeavour and smarts. However, with the head...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 24, 2023, 10:16:02 pm
I still reckon the Giants will be up and down because half of their centre bounce quartet are gone. Hopper and Taranto were mainstays. It’s a bit like us losing Walsh and Hewitt. As we’ve shown, you can still win after losing a couple of main mids but as we showed late last year it can cruel you too.

Yes, they’ve had a preseason to get used to replacing them. And no doubt Giants fans would say that their defections allows the Giants to give more on-ball time to future stars such as Tom Green. And Coniglio seems to have returned to form. But they didn’t trade for mature replacements and we know draftees are usually inconsistent.

They also have to sweat on whether Whitfield and Kelley will return from concussions in Rd 1.

No doubt they’ll still have a few decent mids but their depth will be tested,

Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 25, 2023, 09:08:04 am
Bold comment, Pinot. I suspect you are right but putting a critical eye on JSOS is tantamount to sacrilege and slaying Bambi. When I look at JSOS, I pretend his name is not Silvagni... helps objectivity. With the heart, I want him to be a 200 game player and hold a cup high, and love his endeavour and smarts. However, with the head...

Love Jack but we do look better with two rucks while one is resting forward with 3-4 small forwards. With a full healthy list though some are going to be squeezed- how long will that last? It's a tough one but two rucks with one resting forward would be my go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: townsendcalling on March 25, 2023, 10:57:23 pm
Fisher sub (continues the 'bring on speed' strategy) bring in Hewitt and send LOB back to the twos for a match or two. Jack survives as our 3rd tall / connector. Martin? No way.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2023, 07:29:26 am
Fisher sub (continues the 'bring on speed' strategy) bring in Hewitt and send LOB back to the twos for a match or two. Jack survives as our 3rd tall / connector. Martin? No way.
Forget Martin, shouldn't even be int he conversation as far as I'm concerned. What about when Walsh is ready? What if Walsh is ready rnd 3?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: townsendcalling on March 26, 2023, 08:33:06 am
Forget Martin, shouldn't even be int he conversation as far as I'm concerned. What about when Walsh is ready? What if Walsh is ready rnd 3?

Ed Curnow moves on. He will always be a 'break glass in emergency' if something happens to Hewett, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy or Cripps. I'm sure he knows the pecking order. He's proved that he can come in a fulfill a role. Towards the end of the year if we have the luxury of managing any of the big 5, we know Ed is ready to go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on March 26, 2023, 08:38:48 am
Forget Martin, shouldn't even be int he conversation as far as I'm concerned. What about when Walsh is ready? What if Walsh is ready rnd 3?
Walsh is probably still a couple of weeks away but they might spring a surprise.

I heard Walsh say there was probably three or four people who knew when he would return....and he wasn't one of them. :D
 
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/03/23/hes-beating-down-the-door-blues-offer-update-on-walshs-return-from-surgery/
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2023, 10:08:02 am
Ed Curnow moves on. He will always be a 'break glass in emergency' if something happens to Hewett, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy or Cripps. I'm sure he knows the pecking order. He's proved that he can come in a fulfill a role. Towards the end of the year if we have the luxury of managing any of the big 5, we know Ed is ready to go.
So we move Ed out, who does the job he did on Prestia and Guthrie? I'll give you the answer, no one.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2023, 11:17:41 am
So we move Ed out, who does the job he did on Prestia and Guthrie? I'll give you the answer, no one.
I think Hewett will be that player but Ed has been outstanding so far and won't be going anywhere .
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: cookie2 on March 26, 2023, 11:55:28 am
I think Hewett will be that player but Ed has been outstanding so far and won't be going anywhere .

Yep.  I think Ed was specifically  playing the Hewett role and he did it so well that he must be retained in some capacity even when George returns.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on March 26, 2023, 12:01:11 pm
It's a bugger of a problem, isn't it. ;)  ;D
If we have a bit of luck with injuries there are going to be some very good players playing VFL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 26, 2023, 12:55:58 pm
Ed has probably been the best hard running two way tagger the club has seen and its not even close.
Probably dont need to play a back 7 when a prime mover is shut out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 26, 2023, 04:00:07 pm
The smart way around this, to get the most out of players, and to also help extend player careers, is a horses for courses rotation policy.

Let blokes come in a play a game or two like it's finals, then given them an extra week or two to recover before another push.

The AFL should do something officially to encourage this, by changing the GF medals to reward everyone who has played a senior game and contributed to a winning season.

The Handbaggers were very clever about this a few years back with their own B&F, they changed things so that the count discarded the bottom 3 or 4 games, it allowed players to have a rest and not be penalised.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on March 26, 2023, 04:31:58 pm
It seems to me that our coaches and playing group have really focused on not losing.  While tempo footy for the last five minutes of each quarter is preferable to leaking late goals as we did in the Bolton days, I wonder if we are being too defensive.

I'd like to see just a little more emphasis on scoring when we have momentum, even if it's late in a quarter.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: cookie2 on March 26, 2023, 04:37:44 pm
It seems to me that our coaches and playing group have really focused on not losing.  While tempo footy for the last five minutes of each quarter is preferable to leaking late goals as we did in the Bolton days, I wonder if we are being too defensive.

I'd like to see just a little more emphasis on scoring when we have momentum, even if it's late in a quarter.

We may see the approach change as the season goes on.  We have been haunted by our recent inability to win or hold on to tight games. Once we feel that has been exorcised then we'll probably move to a more adventurous approach.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on March 26, 2023, 04:40:55 pm
We may see the approach change as the season goes on.  We have been haunted by our recent inability to win or hold on to tight games. Once we feel that has been exorcised then we'll probably move to a more adventurous approach.

I guess I'm just impatient to see us put opposition teams to the sword  :)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on March 26, 2023, 05:55:12 pm
I guess I'm just impatient to see us put opposition teams to the sword  :)

Totally agree, David. In the past, even when we've led by a huge margin (foot on  throat), we've relaxed/backed off/ become timid... as a part of this group's progress to serious flag threat, there must be the development of a ruthless/killer instinct. Giving out an 80+ point thrashing would increase another kind of self-belief/confidence that aids that development and evolution to contender.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2023, 06:06:08 pm
We should smack GWS who are a bottom 6 team imho, be interesting to see how Richmond go vs Collingwood next round and get an idea where we sit as well. Im not sold on Richmond as I said last week but if they do ok vs the rampant Pies I think it shows we are making good progress and are as good or better than most teams in the comp and can be deep finals contenders.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 26, 2023, 08:11:50 pm
The Giants’ midfield woes continue. Perryman suffered a hamstring injury last week and will miss. Jacob Wehr, one of their first-choice wingers, was subbed out of today’s game with an AC-joint injury (his arm was in a sling). Whitfield (rebounding defender) and Josh Kelly both missed this week due to concussion and we don’t know whether one or both will miss a 2nd week.

The Giants had a rough game against the Crows in Rd1 on a very hot day and perhaps that has left them ripe for the picking. But the Eagles were horrible last week and the Giants should have done much better. The trip to Perth won’t do much to freshen the Giants up, particularly as they only have a 6 day break ahead. They had little pace in the midfield although they had a few hard nuts such as Tom Green, Ward and Coniglio. They really need Kelly back.

Preuss won’t return from injury, nor will Bedford and O’Halloran.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: madbluboy on March 26, 2023, 08:29:06 pm
Carlton by 10 goals. Too powerful.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 26, 2023, 09:03:52 pm
On second thoughts, I doubt either Whitfield or Kelly will miss. They “entered the AFL’s 12-day concussion protocol” after Rd 1 but on my calculations that expires the day before our match.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2023, 09:10:49 pm
Carlton by 10 goals. Too powerful.
Yep ...West Coast are very ordinary but GWS made them look tough and cohesive.
Some of the most overrated players in the comp wear Giants jumpers ..money first, effort second.
10 goals is about right if we are having a real go...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on March 27, 2023, 06:44:52 am
Good test coming up.  This should be an easy win. Makes it a danger game and one we would lose historically.

Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 27, 2023, 02:36:54 pm
Watching replays of the first two weeks, we are miles away from peak form, in fact as odd as it seems we are surviving from giving virtually four quarters of effort.

That must be quite scary for our opposition, because it will be obvious to them that Charlie and BigH both look pretty rusty, and our Mids aren't yet up to speed either.

I just hope that good form comes before the lapses return, because I think it's unlikely any club can keep up that intensity for a full season! So we ned to find some form to give ourselves some easier results.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: tonyo on March 27, 2023, 03:41:16 pm
Watching replays of the first two weeks, we are miles away from peak form, in fact as odd as it seems we are surviving from giving virtually four quarters of effort.


It's coming though - our first quarter v the pussies was great without getting the rewards we deserved, and then the third quarter was even better.  I just hate the fact that we seem to condemn ourselves to at least one real crap quarter of slow footy every week.  The two last quarters we have played have been very average.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: PaulP on March 27, 2023, 04:04:22 pm
We should go into this game as favourites, and deservedly so IMO. I'm not sure there'll be any place to hide if we drop this one.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 27, 2023, 05:42:11 pm
We are favourites paying $4.50 for a six goal win but this is going to be a tough match with Kelly and Whitfield to return.
Green and Coniglio will want improved performances in the middle.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: tonyo on March 27, 2023, 05:52:55 pm
This is one of those games where we should win well, but if you offered me a win by a narrow margin right now, I would take the 4 points and run.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 27, 2023, 06:04:44 pm
We are favourites paying $4.50 for a six goal win but this is going to be a tough match with Kelly and Whitfield to return.
Green and Coniglio will want improved performances in the middle.
Fair odds imo.....those names are impressive on paper and probably get paid more than the rest of their teammates put together but have never really impressed me in in terms of playing like their life depends on it and living up to the hype they seem to have created over the years. Its always been Ward, Davis and Greene in the main having to do the dirty work and be the heart and soul of that team while the big money earners look for the easy kick and glory play.
Hogan's another one who can look a million dollars but usually gives you a few rupees worth most weeks with the odd glory goal, hate to be a GWS supporter
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 27, 2023, 06:25:28 pm
Fair odds imo.....those names are impressive on paper and probably get paid more than the rest of their teammates put together but have never really impressed me in in terms of playing like their life depends on it and living up to the hype they seem to have created over the years. Its always been Ward, Davis and Greene in the main having to do the dirty work and be the heart and soul of that team while the big money earners look for the easy kick and glory play.
Hogan's another one who can look a million dollars but usually gives you a few rupees worth most weeks with the odd glory goal, hate to be a GWS supporter


Hope you're right - its a Blues Saturday from lunchtime onwards and we have Pizza and Beer set up for the day.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on March 27, 2023, 07:37:56 pm
Hope you're right - its a Blues Saturday from lunchtime onwards and we have Pizza and Beer set up for the day.

I'll be there at 12:05 with a six-pack of pies! ;)  ;D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LordLucifer on March 29, 2023, 01:33:15 pm
Something of a danger game for us, the Giants are back at home and had a bad loss to the Eagles last week.

We cannot go into this one with any complacency.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: spf on March 29, 2023, 02:45:08 pm
Toby Greene to kick 5.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: WASurfer on March 29, 2023, 02:50:47 pm
Greene is the obvious difficult match up.....Newman or possibly Cowan?

We should be able to test their backline though if Himmelberg has to ruck....likely they'll play a second ruckman this week so he can play back.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 29, 2023, 03:12:50 pm
The problem for the Giants is that Greene has kicked 4 goals in both games and was BOG in the Rd 1 win and 2nd best in their Rd 2 loss. In other words, Greene has to play at his best and kick 4+ for the Giants to win but that still may not be enough. Imagine what would happen if he has a bad day.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 29, 2023, 05:50:54 pm
Greene is the obvious difficult match up.....Newman or possibly Cowan?

We should be able to test their backline though if Himmelberg has to ruck....likely they'll play a second ruckman this week so he can play back.
Both Himmelberg's are duds IMO, never got the hype over the GWS version and like McGovern he has ended up doing the easy intercept gig down back rather than the tougher job trying to kick a winning score.
Honestly if we lose to this mob we are fecked for the season and need a complete reset, West Coast are horrible and beat them comfortably and thats without Josh Kennedy.
Im tipping Harry McKay to kick half a dozen this week......Taylor who is one of their few good players might go ok on Charlie but Harry should have a picnic...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: rocky on March 29, 2023, 06:25:43 pm
Ultimately we have a history of dropping the winnable games after beating some tough opposition. We really don't have any excuses. Our list is relatively healthy and we really should clean these blokes up. Then again .......... ::)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 29, 2023, 08:17:37 pm
Crippa, Ed, Hewett, Kennedy, Cerra will prove too strong in the middle and a good test to see whether they can control a game from start to finish.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2023, 09:31:24 pm
Crippa, Ed, Hewett, Kennedy, Cerra will prove too strong in the middle and a good test to see whether they can control a game from start to finish.
Hope George gets up to play.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LoveNavy on March 29, 2023, 10:48:27 pm
Ultimately we have a history of dropping the winnable games after beating some tough opposition. We really don't have any excuses. Our list is relatively healthy and we really should clean these blokes up. Then again .......... ::)

Our healthy list has 8 injured 2 tests - George and Jack Martin.
Seems the average for us. Meanwhile several clubs have 4 or less. GWS isn't one of those though.

Go Blues
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2023, 08:14:05 am
Something of a danger game for us, the Giants are back at home and had a bad loss to the Eagles last week.

We cannot go into this one with any complacency.

Cloven Hooved One, without wanting to seem like a smart@rse... I think the reality is that every game is a danger game. And you'd think and hope we never go into any game with any presumption of a win and/or complacency... instant wake-up call imminent. No opponent/side is a lay down misère.

Yes, you'd think that when we play a lower placed side in poor form or very inexperienced, that we would dish out a hiding... that's something for us supporters whereas you'd hope the players go into every game primed and ready to give every moment their very best in all aspects of the game and let the result take care of itself.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: WASurfer on March 30, 2023, 12:10:25 pm
If Hewett comes in, who goes out? Does LOB go out altogether and maybe JSOS as the sub.....or do one of Owies, Durdin, Motlop, Fisher become the sub? Hard to see either of Hollands or Cowan missing out and even if Docherty goes back to permanent defender, we still only have 7 "defenders" as such. And if Martin is cleared to play, could he be the sub or back via the VFL? Given his history of calf injuries, one week probably isn't enough.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 30, 2023, 12:49:28 pm
While Hollands and Cowans have played well, a lot might depend on work loads, they are only newbies and we do not want to flog them into the ground in their first season. So at some stage they are highly likely to get a week off.

SoJ's fate is dependant on what we do with Pitto and TDK, not connected to Hewett in my opinion. But I agree he could well find himself on the bench if Hewett comes in.

I suspect Hewett would probably replaces one of LoB or Fisher, but Cowan is also possibly an out with a reshuffle, tough call but we have to be aware of work loads in the midfield and the HBF role is much easier to fill.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 30, 2023, 05:33:44 pm
If Hewett comes in, who goes out? Does LOB go out altogether and maybe JSOS as the sub.....or do one of Owies, Durdin, Motlop, Fisher become the sub? Hard to see either of Hollands or Cowan missing out and even if Docherty goes back to permanent defender, we still only have 7 "defenders" as such. And if Martin is cleared to play, could he be the sub or back via the VFL? Given his history of calf injuries, one week probably isn't enough.
I think it might be SOS. Reasons being:
- He hasn't really fired in the first two games.
- Mots and Owies were poor in the first game, very much improved in the second.
- Durds was very good first up
- LOB was the sub twice and really didn't get a go and didn't do anything wrong.
It could be that LOB goes out and SOS is the Sub this week (unless they want SOS to go back to the twos and find some form.
I want us to persist with the 2 rucks
I want Martin to play in the twos
I wish Walshy surprised us all and rolled out as the Sub.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2023, 06:26:24 pm
Kennedy's out Calf
Hewett is named (we'll see ;) )
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: rocky on March 30, 2023, 06:26:59 pm
In : George Hewett
OUT : Lochie O'Brien (Sub), Matthew Kennedy (Injured) WTF??!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on March 30, 2023, 06:33:20 pm
I wonder if we ever going to see our midfield group in the same team together not injured and play at least 10 games straight to build synergy. Its one thing after another with this mob. Hope Walshy and Kennedy come back in next week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 30, 2023, 06:40:00 pm
Out of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewitt & Kennedy, we’re down to 2.5/5. Hewitt, if he plays, will wear a glove according to Voss. Depending on how restrictive glove will be, Hewett may be nowhere near his best.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Professer E on March 30, 2023, 08:15:48 pm
Fisher needs to extract the digit or he'll get pushed out
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 30, 2023, 08:23:40 pm
Fisher needs to extract the digit or he'll get pushed out
I thought he extracted it a fair way last week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: crashlander on March 30, 2023, 08:31:09 pm
Backs:  Mitch McGovern  Jacob Weitering  Nic Newman
Half-backs:  Sam Docherty  Lewis Young  Adam Saad
Centreline:  Ed Curnow  Patrick Cripps  Blake Acres
Half-forwards:  Matthew Owies  Harry McKay  Jack Silvagni
Forwards:  Corey Durdin  Charlie Curnow  Zac Fisher
Followers:  Tom De Koning  Adam Cerra  George Hewett
Interchange:  Lachie Cowan  Ollie Hollands  Jesse Motlop  Marc Pittonet
Emergencies:  Paddy Dow  Josh Honey  Lochie O'Brien  Lachie Plowman
Give paddy Dow the sub jacket? He can't do much more. Granted, LOB hasn't done a lot wrong as the sub so far.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2023, 09:11:21 pm
Fisher needs to extract the digit or he'll get pushed out
His mates the captain, I reckon a few more would have to be dropped before we got to Zac...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2023, 09:15:56 pm
Out of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewitt & Kennedy, we’re down to 2.5/5. Hewitt, if he plays, will wear a glove according to Voss. Depending on how restrictive glove will be, Hewett may be nowhere near his best.
Dont think Hewett will be playing on that info.....might be Paddy Dow in..
We still should win but this game is taking a path I dont like in terms of injuries...no Hewett and Kennedy didnt go so well for us last season and with Walsh out too its making me a tad uncomfortable after looking like an easy win.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 30, 2023, 10:21:17 pm
GWS are light on for rucks, and we are going with both TDK and Pitto, they want to be switched on because we can't be letting GWS run off the stoppages.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on March 31, 2023, 10:19:49 am
I always have a little chuckle when I see 'danger game'.  Who was the poster who used to fire up whenever anyone mentioned 'danger game'?  I think that the competition is so close now that an easybeat team one week can defeat a top four team the next week.  All it takes for an unexpected loss is for a team to be a little off in their preparation.  Who would have tipped the Doggies to beat Brisbane and keep them to just seven goals?  Did the racism directed at Jamarra Ugle-Hagan fire up the Doggies?  "Maar paneeyt" Jamarra!

The first two rounds suggest that we should have GWS's measure.  They've regained Whitfield and Kelly while we've basically swapped Hewett for Kennedy.  We're a tad undermanned in the midfield - by our standards - but should be able to match GWS without too many problems.

The ruck contests should be interesting.  Flynn has got off to a flyer, dominating the hitouts and getting a fair bit of the ball around the ground, and he's basically going it alone.  I imagine that De Koning and Pitto will try to run him ragged and exploit any of the part-timers GWS may throw into the ruck.  I'd like to see De Koning and Pitto drifting forward and back to create a bit of doubt in the minds of the GWS defenders and forwards.

Vossy said that Greene will have different opponents depending on where he's playing.  I'd like to see Saad spend some time on Greene and run off him at every opportunity.  Greene will probably still get his 3 or 4 goals, regardless of his opponent but there's not much else to worry about among the GWS forwards.  I can't really see their defenders holding our forwards, we just have too much firepower ... provided that our transition and stoppage work is at its best.

I think that we'll win comfortably, but not be a huge margin.

Go Blues!


Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on March 31, 2023, 11:53:01 am
Newman to Toby for mine.

Beyond that, I would be giving Dow a test this week to see where hes at.  Last year we put him in vs the Pies, which wasnt really fair. Looking at Rayner and LDU, I think Dows lack of opportunity to play at the coal face has hurt his developement (fair enough as he hasnt really shown enough) but you have to give him a chance in these types of matches.  I really liked what I saw last week, if only the second half.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: townsendcalling on March 31, 2023, 12:04:27 pm
It is amazing what a relatively 'fresh' TDK in the 4th quarter looks like. Still jumping, tackling with intent and working hard. The guy was knackered in the games that Pitto didn't play.  The 2 ruck plan helps both Pitto and TDK. They will be dominant this week and that will translate to another strong game from Cripps. He loves standing under big Brad!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 31, 2023, 01:44:01 pm
According to the club site:
Quote
Hewett got through the entire main training session on Thursday in preparation for this Saturday’s first 2023 interstate trip for the Blues.

Voss had set that as the condition for staying in the team. It looks as though he’ll be playing. Now we just have to see if he wears a protective glove. What the above statement doesn’t say is whether he trained with one or not. I’m guessing a fair amount of preparation goes into gaining an exemption for such protective equipment. You just can’t fit a metal plate to the back of a glove as it could end up being a weapon. Presumably, the AFL would have to sign off on it as is the case with arm guards.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on March 31, 2023, 03:16:14 pm
Presumably, the AFL would have to sign off on it as is the case with arm guards.
Yep, they are free to discriminate.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on March 31, 2023, 03:27:27 pm
According to the club site:
Voss had set that as the condition for staying in the team. It looks as though he’ll be playing. Now we just have to see if he wears a protective glove. What the above statement doesn’t say is whether he trained with one or not. I’m guessing a fair amount of preparation goes into gaining an exemption for such protective equipment. You just can’t fit a metal plate to the back of a glove as it could end up being a weapon. Presumably, the AFL would have to sign off on it as is the case with arm guards.

As I understand the glove rule, players can only wear gloves that have the AFL’s prior approval (that’s before the start of the season).  George will have to select a glove from those already approved by the AFL; one that provides a level of protection for whatever injury he’s carrying.

I’m guessing that it’s ligament damage.

Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Mav on March 31, 2023, 04:11:47 pm
The AFL has an approved range of gloves to avoid some players using the super-sticky gloves favoured by NFL wide receivers. OBJ’s one-handed touchdown catch was brilliant but no doubt the glove reduced the degree of difficulty. IIRC, one AFL player was caught out using Nike super-sticky gloves - was it Travis Cloke? That led to a crackdown.

Scientists have been trying to unlock the secrets of the gecko’s ability to climb up sheer glass. The idea is that a profusion of small filaments provide a sticking force by causing a weak attraction between the filaments and the glass at the molecular level. That has already provided advancements in dry adhesives but they want to produce gloves and footwear that will enable people to crawl up glass without the need for suction cups and the like. Imagine how much of an advantage that would give a player in wet conditions. You’d end up with gloves that were so good it would be as if the players were using Velcro paddles to catch fuzzy balls. Fortunately, the AFL has been able to stare down equipment manufacturers in a way Cricket and Golf rule-makers could not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4hr-idVdhA&t=65s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4hr-idVdhA&t=65s)

But gloves wouldn’t do much to protect an injured hand unless they were reinforced with padding or a hard material such as metal or stiff plastic. Any modifications to approved gloves to protect the injured hand would have to be approved by the AFL. We all remember umpires inspecting our boots before a game and making sure no jewellery was exposed. Same thing but it makes sense not to put the onus on the umpires to assess the glove before the game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on March 31, 2023, 07:03:43 pm
I always have a little chuckle when I see 'danger game'.  Who was the poster who used to fire up whenever anyone mentioned 'danger game'?  I think that the competition is so close now that an easybeat team one week can defeat a top four team the next week.  All it takes for an unexpected loss is for a team to be a little off in their preparation.  Who would have tipped the Doggies to beat Brisbane and keep them to just seven goals?  Did the racism directed at Jamarra Ugle-Hagan fire up the Doggies?  "Maar paneeyt" Jamarra!

The first two rounds suggest that we should have GWS's measure.  They've regained Whitfield and Kelly while we've basically swapped Hewett for Kennedy.  We're a tad undermanned in the midfield - by our standards - but should be able to match GWS without too many problems.

The ruck contests should be interesting.  Flynn has got off to a flyer, dominating the hitouts and getting a fair bit of the ball around the ground, and he's basically going it alone.  I imagine that De Koning and Pitto will try to run him ragged and exploit any of the part-timers GWS may throw into the ruck.  I'd like to see De Koning and Pitto drifting forward and back to create a bit of doubt in the minds of the GWS defenders and forwards.

Vossy said that Greene will have different opponents depending on where he's playing.  I'd like to see Saad spend some time on Greene and run off him at every opportunity.  Greene will probably still get his 3 or 4 goals, regardless of his opponent but there's not much else to worry about among the GWS forwards.  I can't really see their defenders holding our forwards, we just have too much firepower ... provided that our transition and stoppage work is at its best.

I think that we'll win comfortably, but not be a huge margin.

Go Blues!




I think it was Tribey72 who didn't like the term "danger game".
You didn't dare use it when he was around. ;)  :D
But it's a real thing and it usually occurs when a club goes in thinking they will win.
They've already played the game in their head and had an easy win.
It takes just a couple of minutes of intense pressure at the start of the game by the opposition to show that it won't be such an easy day.
The shock of that unexpected attack is enough to put a side on the back foot and once that happens the day may turn into a struggle.
We lose this one if the 'minds' don't come to play.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: madbluboy on March 31, 2023, 07:10:00 pm
Danger game for them.

70 points.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on March 31, 2023, 07:11:01 pm
I think it was Tribey72 who didn't like the term "danger game".
You didn't dare use it when he was around. ;)  :D
But it's a real thing and it usually occurs when a club goes in thinking they will win.
They've already played the game in their head and had an easy win.
It takes just a couple of minutes of intense pressure at the start of the game by the opposition to show that it won't be such an easy day.
The shock of that unexpected attack is enough to put a side on the back foot and once that happens the day may turn into a struggle.
We lose this one if the 'minds' don't come to play.

That's him Lods, Tribey72.  If I remember correctly he was a fan of the Archer animated series   :)

Yes, it's generally above the shoulders where games like this are won and lost.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on April 01, 2023, 05:01:52 am
Last game while overseas so I'll watch it on the bus to Warsaw tomorrow. My record of Carlton winning on a trip has improved from disastrous  to pretty good so hopeful tomorrow morning too.

This is the old Tribey danger game as are most games interstate. Can't believe we gain one, Hewitt, then lose one in Kennedy. Never quite works out in that regard for us.

Finally found a TV channel I can understand, the Polish fight channel. Still don't understand thr commentary but certainly understand when someone gets a punch to the head.. .lol.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LoveNavy on April 01, 2023, 03:57:35 pm
I expect this to be fairly close. Hopefully not 1-8pts close though.

Some confidence is due to our tall towers up forward. My caution relates to how we get it to them in the first place. No Walsh, no Kennedy, and George nursing a hand injury.

Perhaps we'll see some creative midfield rotations to combat this. IIRC our cp and ground ball record to date suggests we'll need to improve in the contest. Win there and we'll come away with the 4pts.

Hopefully our ruck duo will cause a headache for the Giants.

Go Blues.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on April 01, 2023, 04:19:22 pm
I expect this to be fairly close. Hopefully not 1-8pts close though.

Some confidence is due to our tall towers up forward. My caution relates to how we get it to them in the first place. No Walsh, no Kennedy, and George nursing a hand injury.

Perhaps we'll see some creative midfield rotations to combat this. IIRC our cp and ground ball record to date suggests we'll need to improve in the contest. Win there and we'll come away with the 4pts.

Hopefully our ruck duo will cause a headache for the Giants.

Go Blues.

Pretty much how I see it, also. With a couple of disappointing games thus far this season, I'd be watching JSOS for strong improvement. Reckon Zackery might get some midfield time, also. Two blokes with considerable room for improvement.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 01, 2023, 04:29:51 pm
I expect this to be fairly close. Hopefully not 1-8pts close though.

Some confidence is due to our tall towers up forward. My caution relates to how we get it to them in the first place. No Walsh, no Kennedy, and George nursing a hand injury.

Perhaps we'll see some creative midfield rotations to combat this. IIRC our cp and ground ball record to date suggests we'll need to improve in the contest. Win there and we'll come away with the 4pts.

Hopefully our ruck duo will cause a headache for the Giants.

Go Blues.
LN, This is one we need to win and show we can rise above a few injuries and put a very average GWS in their place.
Good teams win these annoying games and it doesnt have to be pretty but if we are sitting with just 6 points from 3 rounds Id be disappointed and concerned going forward as we know the injury lists will mount for all clubs and this is when you show you have some real depth....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on April 01, 2023, 04:33:27 pm
O'Brien the sub 3 weeks running....

Not a fan of that.  Rotate the sub, or give him a full game somewhere.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on April 01, 2023, 04:36:58 pm
That ground looks a mess after the early game. :o