Carlton Supporters Club

Game at 18:10; I have no idea why. Certainly not doing either team many favours.

Changes:  Out Cripps (managed...he didn't go down into the rooms in the 2nd quarter to check the 2 nd leg of the quaddie!) Hollands (managed , give the kid  decent rest.) E Curnow (sub)
In Cerra, Walsh, Silvagni (sub)

Maybe the loss we have to have this time. At this stage, GWS are putting a huge dagger into the hearts of Essendon for this season. Therefore, while hoping for a win, if a loss occurs, I will have to forgive the Giants for what they're doing now.

But I'm off to watch the Matildas for the last time. More on my thoughts of who to come in and out later.

We won't finish lower than 6th which is a home Elmination Final.

Bulldogs will belt West Coast

GWS will beat Essenscum.

If Geelong beat Saints we are guaranteed 5th.

We won't finish lower than 6th which is a home Elmination Final.

Bulldogs will belt West Coast

GWS will beat Essenscum.

If Geelong beat Saints we are guaranteed 5th.

We haven't managed a finish this high in 20 years.

We haven't managed a finish this high in 20 years.

We finished 5th in 2011. ;)

Probably time for a bit of man management....we'll be last to play so we'll see how all the final positions line up and can make a few late changes if a few players suddenly get sore ;)

We've had two pretty intense games.
GWS are cruising through there match at the moment.
They may have more to play for than us in the last game of the season.
Let's wait and see how it all pans out.

Probably time for a bit of man management....we'll be last to play so we'll see how all the final positions line up and can make a few late changes if a few players suddenly get sore ;)

We've had two pretty intense games.
GWS are cruising through there match at the moment.
They may have more to play for than us in the last game of the season.
Let's wait and see how it all pans out.

Indeed. A rest for Cripps for certain: we need him playing and playing well.
Having a few mids to bring in is a real positive.

Everyone will get a week off after the GWS game anyway.
Its almost worth bringing in a few guys who are coming back from injury just to give them a run before finals.

Going to be a pretty toucgh match committee meeting in the next couple of games.

There are plusses and minuses for both approaches.

On the one hand we want to maintain momentum.
On the other hand with a final spot secured it gives us an opportunity to give a good rest to our wounded.

Leave it to the coaches and fitness crew to decide whether we go full-on or not.

If we keep winning and make it to the grand final, we will equal our 2000 record of 13 wins in a row.
If we win the grand final, we will equal our record from 1995.

Lets just keep winning....

Last game before finals and with Harry rusty - need to play our best 22 to build synergy and have two weeks up our sleeve to iron out any problems that may arise. All I know whoever is going to be left out is seriously unlucky.

Keep Walsh in cotton wool. He's coming from a long way back. Changes to be minimal in my view.
Outs: Cripps (managed with ribs), Hollands (rested), E. Curnow (sub, one more swansong as a sub)
Ins: Cerra, Docherty

Keep Walsh in cotton wool. He's coming from a long way back. Changes to be minimal in my view.
Outs: Cripps (managed with ribs), Hollands (rested), E. Curnow (sub, one more swansong as a sub)
Ins: Cerra, Docherty

Docherty was already in. If Walsh is good to go, he must have a run. It's the perfect scenario for him. Have a serious hit out and then have 2 weeks to overcome the 'back after a long break' soreness.

We have basically locked up a home final.

The only we we cannot get a home final is if.....
1. We lose to GWS
and
2. St. Kilda beat Geelong
and
3. Sydney beat Melbourne
and
4. The margin Sydney win by combined with the margin we lose by >70 points or so. eg. if we lose by 30 and Swans win by 40 (70 point total) then their % takes them above us.

If any one of them doesn't happen, we have a home final.

UNLESS....
1. Swans beat Dees
2. Hawks beat Dees
3. We beat GWS

Then we will finish 4th and NOT get a home final (1st week at least) but we will get a double chance and a home final in our next match, win or lose.

Docherty was already in. If Walsh is good to go, he must have a run. It's the perfect scenario for him. Have a serious hit out and then have 2 weeks to overcome the 'back after a long break' soreness.

Docherty was injured himself, but just came back. I also named him, as a replacement winger for Hollands. It seems I'm running out of names now. If Walsh is fit and ready enough, it seems he'll be in.

Weitering, Newman, Kemp, Saad, Marchbank, Fisher, Cincotta as our back seven against GC. How does McGovern get back in? Who does he come in for, outside of injury?

Weitering, Newman, Kemp, Saad, Marchbank, Fisher, Cincotta as our back seven against GC. How does McGovern get back in? Who does he come in for, outside of injury?

Marchbank out, he is too slow and disposal/decision making is terrible.

Marchbank out, he is too slow and disposal/decision making is terrible.

Yep, Marchbank at his best would probably hold his spot but he's still a little bit off that pace, and McGovern must come back in.

Sydney v Melbourne
Lions v Saints

Even if we lose it's hard to see how we are not going to get a home elimination final.

I don't envy the match committee for next round
There are going to be many let down lads.
I wouldn't even know where to begin who to drop

I don't envy the match committee for next round
There are going to be many let down lads.
I wouldn't even know where to begin who to drop

Cincotta, Fisher, Cunninham and unfortunately Ed.

They can't afford to have the first game back for a bunch of blokes to be a final, most players need at least 1/2 of footy to get up to pace after an extended break.

You might get away with one maybe two returns in a final, but not three or four.

Out:
Cincotta - move Doc to the backline
Cunners - doing well but just short of just enough - 2 tackles and no score involvements yesterday. 50/50 on attitude than form. Risky picking him. Unfortunately.
Hollands - is a young star but I think we need players that are proven from here. winning 50/50 contests is going to be crucial and just too young for now.

In: Cerra, Walsh, Fogarty

Out:
Cincotta - move Doc to the backline
Cunners - doing well but just short of just enough - 2 tackles and no score involvements yesterday. 50/50 on attitude than form. Risky picking him. Unfortunately.
Hollands - is a young star but I think we need players that are proven from here. winning 50/50 contests is going to be crucial and just too young for now.
In: Cerra, Walsh, Fogarty

I'll  2nd that pinot although as G2C suggests I'd sacrifice Marchbank rather than Cincotta
What a dilemma we're having? Last year we couldn't get anyone in.

B: Newman  Weitering  Kemp
HB: Docherty  Marchbank  Saad
C: Acres    Cripps    Walsh
HF: Martin    McKay   Fogarty
F: Owies    Curnow  Motlop
R: Pittonet   Hewett  Cerra
In: Fisher, Dow, Cottrell, TDK
E: McGovern, Kennedy, Silvagni

I'll  2nd that pinot although as G2C suggests I'd sacrifice Marchbank rather than Cincotta
What a dilemma we're having? Last year we couldn't get anyone in.

Selection is going to be a nightmare for them.

Marchbank still looks rusty. Didn't watch the VFL but apparently Young was very good. But hard to see how we could squeeze Young and McGovern back into the same team at the moment.

If Cerra and Walsh are fit, gotta play them.....they'll get the following week off anyway.

I've also heard that Kennedy is closer than is being publicly reported.

A good thing coming out of the various outs, is that Hewett who was rusty is back in peak form.

Makes me wonder if we should give Charlie a week off and let Harry go solo, but I suppose the Coleman remains in play so it might be unfair to Charlie!

Fogarty for Cuningham is a possibility. Cuningham hasn't been at his best yet. Like-for-like is the way we generally go at the selection table, especially with this new-found depth we have. Martin, Motlop and Owies had a combined 12 tackles and 6 goals 6 as a trio. That was pleasing to see. They're not going anywhere bar injury.
McGovern didn't look like he was ready to come in yesterday, according to reports. Will he be alright on Sunday? 

Fogarty and Cunningham are required.dont go away from what turned us around.

I thought Cunningham has been good but has had a couple of off games in a row now. Partly I wonder if the changed D50 mix is causing this, although Fisher has been good having him in the D50 does cause a reshuffle, and we seem to be losing out on the output of others like Saad as well.

I suppose also Martin and Owies have grown in presence, they are commanding the football at the moment, and with Charlie in good form up the field there is less stoppage opportunity for the likes of Cunningham and Fogarty. But that doesn't mean you can just ignore the possibility.

I think it is the missing presence of McGovern that has this ripple effect.

Cottell has also been off a bit but is still deep running as strongly as ever. However he could be due for a week out as well, can Fisher retain his spot but be moved back to a wing?

I thought Young tapered off as our game style became more aggressive and confrontational, for a big bloke he is not a big physical presence. We need big blokes who are physically aggressive, who will straight line the footy, to take the physical dependency off Cripps to always do the hard stuff, I don't see it in Young, but Weiters and McGovern have it in spades and that means Cripps, Pitto and TDK don't have to push as deep all the time.

Don't want to drop a Melbourne game to GWS and then find out we have them in the first final as well....

I reckon by the time the game starts at 6.10 that GWS will already know they can't make it because of other results and will be flat as a pancake.

Just to top it off, if Hawthorn can roll the Dees today, we might be playing next week to make the 1st Qualifying final against the Pies. 

How's that for a wish list?

Fogarty and Cunningham are required.dont go away from what turned us around.

Boyd might be on the way back as well.

Cerra, Walsh, McGovern, Boyd were all ins and in good form when we were on a roll, personally I think it's more about picking players in form rather than picking players on name.

The benefit that we have is that both 1st and 2nd teams are playing finals, so the whole squad will maintain match fitness for as long as they both survive.

The benefit that we have is that both 1st and 2nd teams are playing finals, so the whole squad will maintain match fitness for as long as they both survive.

It means we can't pull off any selection shiftys at the last minute though.

The benefit that we have is that both 1st and 2nd teams are playing finals, so the whole squad will maintain match fitness for as long as they both survive.

After yesterday, if Richmond win our 2nds are out.

If it is a dead rubber…

Personally I’d rest Cripps, Martin, Weiters, Charlie, Hollands, Newman, Docherty,
I’d keep Walsh, Cerra, McGovern, SOSOS and Kennedy out too.

Martin (to my surprise) had been instrumental the last few weeks. Newman may be top 3 in our BnF. We need Ollie’s run. Weiters is probably winning BnF. Docherty, Cripps and Charlie just deserve a rest.

Replace with whoever you like - but we cannot afford to have any of those 7 get injured.

Just get everyone cherry ripe for the Elimination Final.

—-
And if we get fined by the AFL for playing silly buggers then who gives a F.

Boyd might be on the way back as well.

Cerra, Walsh, McGovern, Boyd were all ins and in good form when we were on a roll, personally I think it's more about picking players in form rather than picking players on name.

Yeah I would bring in Boyd for Fisher. Since Fisher has come in he has done ok but Saad has suffered having to play a more defensive role that obviously Fisher can't do.

We have an eight day break these guys recover in 2-3 days then back to training.

I'll  2nd that pinot although as G2C suggests I'd sacrifice Marchbank rather than Cincotta
What a dilemma we're having? Last year we couldn't get anyone in.

Cincotta has speed, toughness and is a terrific kick, cannot drop out IMO.

Why would you drop Cincotta? That's absurd.

Why would you drop Cincotta? That's absurd.

Who would you drop?

Doc won't play in the middle when Walsh and Cerra come back in.

Cripps has to come out and stay out until he is fit. He may be an inspirational player, but he is human.

Who would you drop?

Doc won't play in the middle when Walsh and Cerra come back in.

You want to go back to the side from last year?

You want to go back to the side from last year?

Cincotta is a very good player and lucky to have him but Doc is better.

Cincotta is a very good player and lucky to have him but Doc is better.

Cincotta is a better defender.

I think Cincotta has to play, kicks well both feet, has leg speed and can take a bump, still get up and carry on and I like how he plays close to his man which Is what I look for in a defender.
If I was looking for a player to drop it would be Cottrell, he is handy and does some good stuff but has been a bit ordinary of late  and with Fisher and Dow coming in and doing ok it probably puts him under pressure for his spot if we want to bring all our injured regulars back in who helped provide the catalyst for our present run of success.
I could also see Dow losing his spot but being made the sub, good position to be in having choices but we will have some unhappy players...
Fisher vs Boyd.....might depend on the opposition for me, the former is now the incumbent and his ball use had been very good since returning but as MBB pointed out we are going to need some defense being played and we cant detract from Saads game by making him play too deep and on extremely dangerous players and then expect him to provide his usual drive.
I would play Cuningham and Fogarty and having McGovern in for Marchbank is a no brainer imo...
Jack Silvagni looks like missing out in favour of Harry now being back plus the coaching box being happy with the Pittonet/TDK ruck combo setup....Id be finding a spot for Jack but I dont see the MC making him a priority and the success of the Owies, Martin, Motlop and Fogarty small forward setup has probably dented his chances of selection also.
Might be the farewell game for Ed Curnow this week too....

WCE beat the Bulldogs
Bulldogs have Geelong at Geelong next week.
If they win they'll push GWS out on percentage
GWS will know by our game whether they have to win to make finals.

I have been picking next weeks Blues team every week since I became a Blues fan in 1968 and I don't recall a tougher selection task than this coming week. First up are the inter-related philosophical questions - 1 do we rest tired/banged-up players? and 2 do we prioritise getting miles into the legs of returning players? North failed to overrun the tigers in the seconds, so no-one outside the 23 are getting any match practice. The remaining unknowns at time of writing are whether top 4 is still a chance and conversely who we'd be playing week 1 of the finals on either a round 23 win or loss scenario. The former will be clear tonight, the latter by match time. If top 4 is on offer we play our strongest side, likewise if the results make a win imperative. Otherwise I am more open to being dictated by the opportunity to get miles into the legs of returning players.



To my mind we rest Cripps, Docherty and Hollands on any scenario. All would benefit from the 2 weeks off and all are struggling at the moment such that fresh legs would be a benefit to the team this week anyway – not to denigrate what they bring to the table. Incoming I would expect all of Cerra, McGovern and Walsh to come in. Also Kennedy and Silvagni if they are fit. Perhaps Boyd, though Fisher has been better than I thought he could be in the loose defender role. However I wonder whether we can afford his lack of defensive application when it comes to finals. Boyd and Cincotta to me are more defensive, more physical, better overhead and in Boyd’s case a better kick than Fisher. McGovern is a different type of defender and Marchbank and Kemp are the obvious 2 he potentially replaces, unless you want to play all 3 in which case one of them plays small and one of the small defenders goes out. That doesn’t effect our run that much and gives us flexibility if one of our tall defenders goes down.



On ball Ed Curnow I think is cooked. Cuningham has not been setting the world alight despite his obvious gifts and may be at risk. Cottrell is not the most skilled player going around but I like his versatility and team ethic and his incredible running power is crucial to the way this team plays. He stays for mine.  Lastly, if there is not much hanging on the game I say we blood Binns.  He has been excellent all year in the 2s and deserves a run.  If he turns it on we have another selection dilemma, otherwise we have 1 natural out for the final.  Win/win in my view and an investment in the future.



At this stage assuming we will prioritise getting miles into the legs of returning players and assuming Kennedy and Silvagni are fit to play my line-up is:



BOYD WEITERING MARCHBANK



FISHER McGOVERN SAAD



ACRES DOW WALSH



BINNS McKAY MARTIN



SILVAGNI/PITTONET C CURNOW OWIES



DE KONING KENNEDY/CINCOTTA CERRA


COTTRELL HEWETT KEMP MOTLOP / FOGARTY



EMERGENCIES CINCOTTA HOLLANDS YOUNG



IN    BOYD McGOVERN WALSH BINNS (NEW) SILVAGNI KENNEDY CERRA FOGARTY

OUT NEWMAN DOCHERTY CRIPPS HOLLANDS (RESTED) E CURNOW CINCOTTA PITTONET CUNINGHAM (OMITTED)



LOCKS TO RETURN CRIPPS DOCHERTY NEWMAN



PUSHING TO RETURN CINCOTTA CUNINGHAM HOLLANDS



CHANCE TO RETURN PITTONET



BACKUPS E CURNOW COWAN HONEY O'BRIEN PLOWMAN YOUNG

How are we going to fit everyone!

We are going to flirt with form I reckon and presser going to be "lessons to learn"

Fascinating week coming.

When you're a good team, good players will miss. Remember Troy Bond, Matthew Allan, Barry Mitchell, Adrian Gleeson all played a part in 1995.

Well I think the Fabric players are Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Charlie and Walsh
Important players - McKay, Cerra, Hewett, Saad, Newman, Martin
High Quality Young talent - Kemp, Motlop, TDK, Hollands
Regular starters - Silvagni, Pittonet, McGovern, Owies, Kennedy, Acres
Squad players - Fogarty, Fisher, Cincotta, Dow, Cottrell, Marchbank, Young, Boyd, Cunningham
Exciting Young Talent - remainder of under 23s
The rest - surplus to requirements.

Good luck to the leaders of the club to get the selections right - you will need it.

My changes would be this.

1. McGovern <-> Marchbank. Tough call to leave marchbank out, but McGovern and he play the same position and Gov has more upside.
2. Cerra <-> Dow. Same as above. Dow can be called upon in times of injury, but he is not first picked.
3. Walsh <-> Fisher. Docherty goes back to defense, Walsh takes up the midfield role at Fishers expense.
4. Fogarty <-> Cuningham <-> E. Curnow (sub). Fogarty plays the whole game, Cuners comes on as an impact player in Eds place.

If all goes well, sub off Hollands and let Cunners loose to carve them up late.

My changes would be this.

1. McGovern <-> Marchbank. Tough call to leave marchbank out, but McGovern and he play the same position and Gov has more upside.
2. Cerra <-> Dow. Same as above. Dow can be called upon in times of injury, but he is not first picked.
3. Walsh <-> Fisher. Docherty goes back to defense, Walsh takes up the midfield role at Fishers expense.
4. Fogarty <-> Cuningham <-> E. Curnow (sub). Fogarty plays the whole game, Cuners comes on as an impact player in Eds place.

If all goes well, sub off Hollands and let Cunners loose to carve them up late.

This.

But not a tough call on marchbank for me lol.

Who would you drop?

Doc won't play in the middle when Walsh and Cerra come back in.

I'm happy to drop no-one, bring the others back and just play 26. That'll stuff the opposition...lol.

Could be a dead rubber by the time our game comes along. We might play GWS 2 weeks in a row.

I still have a small thought that giving Cripps a rest in this last game might keep him fresh and ready for the finals. I could see the Giants going hard at some of our players to make them sore for the first final.

I can see the bulldogs knocking off Geelong.

Geelong have the sort of team, where they can put some older players on ice for this game and get them ready for next year, whilst improving their draft hand.  They wont be motivated to beat the bulldogs, but the bulldogs will go out guns blazing to make finals.

From what I can see, either everything turns on its head this week, or the status quo will largely remain.  Will all depend on the Brisbane vs Saints game.  If that follows the script everything is normal. 

I can see the bulldogs knocking off Geelong.

Geelong have the sort of team, where they can put some older players on ice for this game and get them ready for next year, whilst improving their draft hand.  They wont be motivated to beat the bulldogs, but the bulldogs will go out guns blazing to make finals.

From what I can see, either everything turns on its head this week, or the status quo will largely remain.  Will all depend on the Brisbane vs Saints game.  If that follows the script everything is normal. 

Libba back in and Cameron injured so my money is on the Dogs to be desperate enough to give Bevo his first win at the Cattery. The arrogance of Chris Scott has no boundaries and I'm looking forward to his excuses when they lose...

Who do we want in 8th spot?

Who do we want in 8th spot?

West Coast

West Coast

Hmm, with McGovern back they look like a different team, just ask Bevo! ;)

But basically we will determine whether the Bulldogs have a chance or not, I would have thought we'd want to win and keep winning, but I can also see us resting some!

If Cerra, Walsh and McGovern are fit they need to play. Cripps looks like he is playing hurt so I think he would benefit from a couple of weeks out. Dow,  Hewitt and Docherty are doing the heavy lifting in the midfield at the moment,  and with Cerra and Walsh coming in we can afford him being rested. Cuningham also looks like he could use a break so if Fogarty is ok we should interchange them. McGovern for Marchbank is the obvious choice. I think Ed Curnow might drop out and Hollands could move to being substitute.
With Kennedy and Silvagni likely to be available for the first week of the finals there are a number of players who are going to be unlucky at selection. The two things that counts against sides making runs in the finals from outside the top four is player attrition and the sides that finish above you have been better than you throughout the season.  I think we have the depth of squad and we have beaten three of the top four and four of the other top six in recent weeks so I am not sure the other teams in the finals are better than us.
As for this week we must turn up with the same attitude that we have played with over the past nine weeks. If we do this we will be ok.

Who do we want in 8th spot?

Anyone, anywhere anytime.

Thats the only mentality that will see us do damage in finals.

Anyone, anywhere anytime.

As fans then, who do we want?

As fans then, who do we want?

I'll take Collingwood first up.  You a want a flag, then take no prisoners and all challengers.  It cant happen so any of Sydney, gws, st. Kilda or the bulldogs will do me fine.  Actually, if Brisbane beat the saints, it's possible for us to face them in week one if Sydney win and we lose to gws.  Would love to send Ross and Stocker home in week one. 

Tough selection choices this week if all of Cerra, Walsh and McGovern are fit and ready to go.

1. All 3 in at the expense of Marchbank, Cunningham, Hollands and Ed...and have Hollands as the sub? I'd be sticking with Dow.
2. All 3 in but Dow goes out, Docherty back into defence and Cincotta out.

Can't remember the last time we had this sort of "problem".

I still have a small thought that giving Cripps a rest in this last game might keep him fresh and ready for the finals. I could see the Giants going hard at some of our players to make them sore for the first final.

....and visa versa.

....and visa versa.

Don't think it's in our DNA, but if Toby was given the opportunity to accidentally clean up collide with the likes of Walsh, Cripps or Cerra, well that's another matter!

Mind you, week one of the finals, Libba won't be shy of securing a 2nd week of finals for the Dogs by any means, if they get through!

Having said that, modern AFL is different now, there are no little guys anymore, even the onballers are huge.

Hmm, with McGovern back they look like a different team, just ask Bevo! ;)

But basically we will determine whether the Bulldogs have a chance or not, I would have thought we'd want to win and keep winning, but I can also see us resting some!

You can see it now...
Bulldogs beat Geelong.
We rest players and get beaten by GWS...the Bulldogs howl at how we've thrown the game and spoiled their chance of playing finals.

The same Bulldog team that jumped up and down with joy when Collingwood knocked us out last year.

It almost makes you want the karma bus to hit them...even at the expense of a loss.
Almost !

It almost makes you want the karma bus to hit them...even at the expense of a loss.
Almost !

They need a whack just for the way they treated Jake Edwards.

If I recall, they also white-anted us going back for the original Good Friday game proposals, they were one of the most vocal opposing the redevelopment of our home ground as a waste of money(Just as they were being awarded millions for VU), and didn't they go the early crow pointing the finger at us about our hotels?

They have always taken the "What about me?" angle looking for handouts at somebody else's expense, it's parasitic!

You can see it now...
Bulldogs beat Geelong.
We rest players and get beaten by GWS...the Bulldogs howl at how we've thrown the game and spoiled their chance of playing finals.

The same Bulldog team that jumped up and down with joy when Collingwood knocked us out last year.

It almost makes you want the karma bus to hit them...even at the expense of a loss.
Almost !

They were hardly going to be disappointed at playing finals last season at our expense. 

They were hardly going to be disappointed at playing finals last season at our expense. 

They should have been more restrained and exercised some self control....like we did on the weekend. :D

Can't believe the talk of resting players in preparation for the finals. You never flirt with winning form. The only blokes to get a rest should be those with an injury who would have been out anyway.

I hope we go into the GWS game with our hunting commitment... ruthless intensity at every contest with our best possible side. Personally, I don't give a rusty FK what any other side is up to, only us and our next opponent - that's all that matters.

I'm going to put a bit of trust in the coaching and fitness folks who have got us to this point already.

I can see plusses and minusses for going all out or resting
The coaches will have a much better idea of just who needs a break....and better to 'give them a break' than 'break them.'
There's a very real possibility that we'll play GWS two weeks in a row.
Do we show all our cards at the first outing and try for a psychological advantage?
Or do we play our cards close to the chest and hold a bit back for the finals?

By the time this match rolls around GWS will have a good idea what's required of them.
If they need a win then they'll come out 'all guns blazing'.
If we go out matching them in intent and pressure it could be a brutal game.

Can't believe the talk of resting players in preparation for the finals. You never flirt with winning form. The only blokes to get a rest should be those with an injury who would have been out anyway.

I hope we go into the GWS game with our hunting commitment... ruthless intensity at every contest with our best possible side. Personally, I don't give a rusty FK what any other side is up to, only us and our next opponent - that's all that matters.

We’ve got the pre-finals bye coming up (it still feels a little strange that the bye will apply to us 🙂) and that’s the only break we need.

The only changes to the team should be to accommodate returning automatic inclusions or to replace players with injuries that restrict their ability to play at their best.  Of course, that doesn’t include Cripps - at half rat power he’s still worthy of a place in the team.  A week won’t do much for damaged ribs anyway.

At this stage of our campaign, I think that it’s important that we maintain momentum, stay ruthless and get games into our returning players.

We’ve got the pre-finals bye coming up (it still feels a little strange that the bye will apply to us 🙂) and that’s the only break we need.

At this stage of our campaign, I think that it’s important that we maintain momentum, stay ruthless and get games into our returning players.

Tend to agree except I think returning fringe players should be considered also - especially if by game time we know a win won't help us.  Miles in the legs of all that we may need to call upon - and omit those who can't get up or would benefit from the rest.

Pitto seems to be sore. Could do with a rest. JSOS to come in as a second ruck wouldn't be of any surprise. Or maybe JSOS may be rusty and the week's rest will do.

Pitto seems to be sore. Could do with a rest. JSOS to come in as a second ruck wouldn't be of any surprise. Or maybe JSOS may be rusty and the week's rest will do.

My mail is that Jack Silvagni is injured again.  If not, he must have had a shocker in the Magoos as he hardly touched the pill (like many of his teammates).

Hopefully, the Jack as second ruck option has run its course and he will only be called on in an emergency now. 

Jack is the perfect emergency. Can play anywhere even as an inside mid.

My mail is that Jack Silvagni is injured again.  If not, he must have had a shocker in the Magoos as he hardly touched the pill (like many of his teammates).

Hopefully, the Jack as second ruck option has run its course and he will only be called on in an emergency now. 

Pretty sure he was injured, didn't play the second half hence the low numbers.
He usually wears some padding when rucking in the seniors.
I heard he was bandaged up on the bench...don't see the need for that unless there was an injury.
Hopefully it's only minor...he could do with a game this weekend.

Pretty sure he was injured, didn't play the second half hence the low numbers.
He usually wears some padding when rucking in the seniors.
I heard he was bandaged up on the bench...don't see the need for that unless there was an injury.
Hopefully it's only minor...he could do with a game this weekend.

Jack didn't wear his shin guard so he wasn't meant to be rucking.

The footage I saw showed Jack wearing a compression bandage and limping towards the bench after one of the quarter time breaks - not sure whether it was quarter time or three quarter time.

I only watched the highlights of the game and didn't see him after quarter time.

I can see the bulldogs knocking off Geelong.

Geelong have the sort of team, where they can put some older players on ice for this game and get them ready for next year, whilst improving their draft hand.  They wont be motivated to beat the bulldogs, but the bulldogs will go out guns blazing to make finals.

From what I can see, either everything turns on its head this week, or the status quo will largely remain.  Will all depend on the Brisbane vs Saints game.  If that follows the script everything is normal.

Could be some big retirements for Geelong this week. Might be enough motivation for them to put in for a game that doesn't matter for them otherwise.

Cats should be queried about tanking, because they aren't going full steam to win

If we do look at playing GWS twice I’d put someone on Toby Greene who will niggle the crap out of him in this first one. Given his track record he will loose his cool and not be playing in the second. He is their real leader and talisman. Nic Newman is the man for the job

Cats should be queried about tanking, because they aren't going full steam to win

They are going flat out, on average they are just a bit too old and now look slow as the seasons progresses towards the finals.

They got the label Dad's Army a few years back, now it's Grandpa's Army!

Before the haters label me an ageist, the reality is the difference between looking up to speed and looking out of the contest is almost nothing. A millisecond of extra reaction time, whether it's the thought process or the motor skills, and your trailing.

Six on the bench, what's the bet Chris Scott pushes for it! It'll be sold as "We need to accelerate the development of the kids" but the unspoken real reason is "These old blokes can't keep up anymore!" ;) I suspect there will be a debate from the coach's side of this debate that is either more on the bench or release / restore the soft cap!

Anyway, the Handbaggers aren't a consideration for the 2023 final round.

If we do look at playing GWS twice I’d put someone on Toby Greene who will niggle the crap out of him in this first one. Given his track record he will loose his cool and not be playing in the second. He is their real leader and talisman. Nic Newman is the man for the job

Toby seems to have pulled his head in since becoming the skipper.  Anger management?

I’d be surprised if Newy can keep him as quiet as he did last time but he should definitely get the first crack.

We had a very different defence when we played them earlier in the season with Young, Cowan and McGovern in the team.  I think that we played a midfielder (Cerra or Hewett) in defence to allow Docherty to play in the midfield.

I prefer our current defensive set up … and it’s the most miserly in the competition.  That includes Marchbank ahead of McGovern.  Gov is flashier but Marchy is more reliable.

They are going flat out, on average they are just a bit too old and now look slow as the seasons progresses towards the finals.

They got the label Dad's Army a few years back, now it's Grandpa's Army!

Before the haters label me an ageist, the reality is the difference between looking up to speed and looking out of the contest is almost nothing. A millisecond of extra reaction time, whether it's the thought process or the motor skills, and your trailing.

Six on the bench, what's the bet Chris Scott pushes for it! It'll be sold as "We need to accelerate the development of the kids" but the unspoken real reason is "These old blokes can't keep up anymore!" ;) I suspect there will be a debate from the coach's side of this debate that is either more on the bench or release / restore the soft cap!

Anyway, the Handbaggers aren't a consideration for the 2023 final round.

Pendlebury is a prime example of this.  Watch the next Pies match.  He has survived to now because he is a classy ball user, and was getting on the footy in the open spaces, and only occasionally going into the contest.  Now he is a second slower, he is getting caught, more errant ball use, less clean looking and has gone from at the standard to sub standard pretty quickly.

Sometimes it doesn't take a remarkable difference either, but timing, a bit of luck, conditioning, and supplementing with the right mix of other players, and you go from chocolates to boiled lollies pretty quickly.

For example, the team that lost in the Semi Final against Geelong in 1994 vs the team that pantsed Geelong in 1995 had the following changes in personnell:

1994:
Barry Mitchell
Brett Sholl
Luke O Sullivan
James Cook
Matthew Allan
Troy Bond
Adrian Gleeson

in 1995, none of them featured on grand final day, and these guys were the proverbial "ins":
Matt Clape
Adrian Whitehead
Glenn Manton
Scott Camporeale
Dean Rice
Brad Pearce
Craig Bradley

Others in the team fared better because of the changes, plus another year into other players, and it makes all the difference come grand final day, and instead of 33 point loss, it was a 60 point win.  Sure a few players were not at their best in the finals series of 1994, and key ones, but sometimes its a matter of different parts means a greater whole, and getting that balance right can be as simple as one injury, or 3 or 4.

Toby seems to have pulled his head in since becoming the skipper.  Anger management?

I’d be surprised if Newy can keep him as quiet as he did last time but he should definitely get the first crack.

We had a very different defence when we played them earlier in the season with Young, Cowan and McGovern in the team.  I think that we played a midfielder (Cerra or Hewett) in defence to allow Docherty to play in the midfield.

I prefer our current defensive set up … and it’s the most miserly in the competition.  That includes Marchbank ahead of McGovern.  Gov is flashier but Marchy is more reliable.

Its amazing what giving someone responsibility can do to a players attitude.  I always wonder all those years ago, had we given Fevola a bit more responsibility how he would have fared.  Given he was a bit self centred, it might have made him more selfless, or it could have exacerbated that further, but we will never know.

If we do look at playing GWS twice I’d put someone on Toby Greene who will niggle the crap out of him in this first one. Given his track record he will loose his cool and not be playing in the second. He is their real leader and talisman. Nic Newman is the man for the job

Think Newman will get Greene...problems may be more at the other end where we can't expect Charlie to kick 5 every week.Taylor will probably give Weitering a run for the AA fullback position and his sidekick Buckley is also highly rated so we need some other players to step up.
Going to be a tough game...

Getting way off what should be a very focused topic.

Off-topic posts may begin to disappear 🙄

Toby seems to have pulled his head in since becoming the skipper.  Anger management?

I’d be surprised if Newy can keep him as quiet as he did last time but he should definitely get the first crack.

We had a very different defence when we played them earlier in the season with Young, Cowan and McGovern in the team.  I think that we played a midfielder (Cerra or Hewett) in defence to allow Docherty to play in the midfield.

I prefer our current defensive set up … and it’s the most miserly in the competition.  That includes Marchbank ahead of McGovern.  Gov is flashier but Marchy is more reliable.

I like the idea of Newman keeping a close eye on Toby. If he plays, Cottrell could lend a hand.

Looking forward to seeing Charlie's bullet passes from outside 50 to a forward running into space.  Sublime and superb to wtach.

I like the idea of Newman keeping a close eye on Toby. If he plays, Cottrell could lend a hand.

Can Newman keep pace with Greene?

I suspect a team ethic might be required, Newman, Kemp and Saad subject to where Greene choses to go!

I'd also like to see Cincotta get a crack for a while, assuming he's playing, I'd not ask him to run off Greene just stick to him like a fly to shizen!

Can Newman keep pace with Greene?

I suspect a team ethic might be required, Newman, Kemp and Saad subject to where Greene choses to go!

I'd also like to see Cincotta get a crack for a while, assuming he's playing, I'd not ask him to run off Greene just stick to him like a fly to shizen!

Newman didn't give Toby a sniff last time so there's no doubt about his ability to keep pace with him.  However, our defence is built on teamwork and individuals have the confidence and smarts to leave their direct opponent and make an extra number at the confidence.  They know that a teammate will have rolled on to their direct opponent.

We do get caught out occassionally but, as the best defensive team in the competition, it's not often enough to hurt.

Newman didn't give Toby a sniff last time so there's no doubt about his ability to keep pace with him.  However, our defence is built on teamwork and individuals have the confidence and smarts to leave their direct opponent and make an extra number at the confidence.  They know that a teammate will have rolled on to their direct opponent.

We do get caught out occassionally but, as the best defensive team in the competition, it's not often enough to hurt.

Yes it was a good game by Newman, got up the field and cut off a lot.

But my memory of that game is that our Mids cleaned up, I think Cripps set a world record or something. Not much got forward of centre for GWS and if we had kicked straight we probably should have won by 10 goals. I also remember Kelly getting leather poisoning, but most of it was deep in our F50 so it didn't hurt us.

Harry should be better for this game as blew out some cobwebs.

Cerra, Walsh, Hewett and Cripps is a midfield that is mixed with brutality and class.

Martin seems to be getting better every week. They have Toby we have Martin.. talent is similar.

Harry should be better for this game as blew out some cobwebs.

Cerra, Walsh, Hewett and Cripps is a midfield that is mixed with brutality and class.

Martin seems to be getting better every week. They have Toby we have Martin.. talent is similar.

That's being very kind to Jack Martin!

I think that Jack has made a huge difference to our team. His constant running and ability to find space, his tackling and hardness at the contest, ability to pluck a mark, and his quickness in identifying options and then hitting targets is right up there.  Toby does all of that, and then some.

Pinot....combined, Martin, Owies and Motlop in the last 5 or so weeks have been huge for us. They've all pretty much hit the scoreboard in every game and means we don't have to rely solely on Charlie kicking the big bags....but it's nice when he does.

mistake playing newman on toby ,he will be ready for him this time , need to play a surprise card  defender.

We also have Cincotta, Kemp and McGovern who could play on him.

SoJ out of considerations for Rnd 24, hurt his knee again.

SoJ out of considerations for Rnd 24, hurt his knee again.

:(

Barring injuries that might be his season.

Barring injuries that might be his season.

Indeed. We are less with him unavailable, but ...
Without injuries, he'd have easily another 50 games.

mistake playing newman on toby ,he will be ready for him this time , need to play a surprise card  defender.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Besides, if Newman can do it twice in a row, when we have to back up against GWS in week 1 of finals, he'll be having nightmares all week about coming up against Newy again.

Geelong have put 6 of their best in cotton wool for the year.   Doggies are now the clear favourites. If they do win, GWS have to knock us over to make the 8. Looks like it could be a live rubber for one team!

Rest no one.
They need to be brutalised and demolish their dreams of 2024.

SoJ out of considerations for Rnd 24, hurt his knee again.

I saw this too and thought WTF? Finals soon and he may miss out being on the ground for us. Depending on what has happened.

SoJ out of considerations for Rnd 24, hurt his knee again.

He may have already played his last ever game for Carlton now.

If all of Cerra, Walsh and McGovern are fit, get them in this week. Kennedy might be the unlucky one to miss out. Otherwise it's another 2 weeks without a game before the final.

If all of Cerra, Walsh and McGovern are fit, get them in this week. Kennedy might be the unlucky one to miss out. Otherwise it's another 2 weeks without a game before the final.

Depending on how sore Cripps is, I'd be tempted to give him two weeks off and give Kennedy a run

It's funny, but this game could be completely different, depending what happens in the lead up games.
It could be a 'full on' contest ...or AFLX revisited.
Do two sides who are likely to play each other again in two weeks show all their cards, or leave something for the finals?
Is there a great psychological advantage to be had?
There probably is if both sides give a full contest, but if one side goes in looking to give players a spell, there's no advantage. The other side knows they've had a hollow victory and the real heat is yet to come.
If both sides look to rest players we'll end up with an exhibition match. ::)

Depending on how sore Cripps is, I'd be tempted to give him two weeks off and give Kennedy a run

No resting anyone, Full Gas to the end!

I'm with you GTC....first finals appearance in 10 years and I'd like to have our blokes pumped and roaring to go on the back of winning.

I'm with you GTC....first finals appearance in 10 years and I'd like to have our blokes pumped and roaring to go on the back of winning.

There is a freshen up week between rnd 24 and finals week 1, many say not even thats a good idea for continuity but none the less., its a chance to rest a bit and get fired up for finals. 2 weeks is less that ideal in my book.

I'm with you GTC....first finals appearance in 10 years and I'd like to have our blokes pumped and roaring to go on the back of winning.

Agreed - most important that we have the synergy right before we get to knock-out matches.  

Can't afford to spend a quarter and a half of an elimination final learning how to play together again, not to mention getting some live leather into the hands of several guys who haven't fired a shot in anger for 3-4 weeks.

It's funny, but this game could be completely different, depending what happens in the lead up games.
It could be a 'full on' contest ...or AFLX revisited.
Do two sides who are likely to play each other again in two weeks show all their cards, or leave something for the finals?
Is there a great psychological advantage to be had?
There probably is if both sides give a full contest, but if one side goes in looking to give players a spell, there's no advantage. The other side knows they've had a hollow victory and the real heat is yet to come.
If both sides look to rest players we'll end up with an exhibition match. ::)

We're in the finals but risk playing away to Sydney, if they win and make up 4.5 percentage points, St. Kilda win and we lose.

Newman to Greene again as well. Let's just hope he's not a victim of Greene's boot, to his body or face, for a second time!

I'd like to win this week and be assured of a home final, but the most important thing is getting our team primed for the first final -

In - Cerra, Walsh, Kennedy, McGovern, Fogarty
Out - (Omitted) Marchy, Ed.  (Rested) Hollands, Crippa, Cunners
Sub - Dow

For the first final we will need to make some hard decisions, Hollands v Cottrell, Boyd v Fish, Fog v Cunners, Sub between Kennedy and Hewy.

We are going to have a few blokes missing out that deserve a game Paddy Dow included.

My team...

FB: Newman - Weitering - Saad
HB: Docherty - Kemp - McGovern
C: Acres - Cripps - Walsh
HF: Martin - C. Curnow - Fogarty
FF: Owies - McKay - Motlop
R: Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt
Int: Cincotta - Cottrell - Hollands - DeKoning
Sub: Cuningham

EMG: E. Curnow, Dow, Fisher, Marchbank

Assumed not ready - Kennedy, Silvagni

The most important thing IMO is no further injuries.

The most important thing IMO is no further injuries.

For the first time in forever, a couple injuries won't hurt us.
Just make sure its not to our spine.

Assumed not ready - Kennedy, Silvagni

They are saying Kennedy will be available, if they don't play him this week, will they take the chance on him anytime? Hasn't played since round 17, 7 weeks and counting.

My team...

FB: Newman - Weitering - Saad
HB: Docherty - Kemp - McGovern
C: Acres - Cripps - Walsh
HF: Martin - C. Curnow - Fogarty
FF: Owies - McKay - Motlop
R: Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt
Int: Cincotta - Cottrell - Hollands - DeKoning
Sub: Cuningham

EMG: E. Curnow, Dow, Fisher, Marchbank

Assumed not ready - Kennedy, Silvagni

Yeah I like that team only abit light on rotational mids. But I guess Doc can rotate through there but still one of Cotts and Hollands for Kennedy maybe

My team...

FB: Newman - Weitering - Saad
HB: Docherty - Kemp - McGovern
C: Acres - Cripps - Walsh
HF: Martin - C. Curnow - Fogarty
FF: Owies - McKay - Motlop
R: Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt
Int: Cincotta - Cottrell - Hollands - DeKoning
Sub: Cuningham

EMG: E. Curnow, Dow, Fisher, Marchbank

Assumed not ready - Kennedy, Silvagni

Id swap Cottrell and Cuningham but otherwise agree...

Id swap Cottrell and Cuningham but otherwise agree...

You could, but Cottrell is a running machine. A beast with elite running.
Cuningham works better as a burst player.

Same reason why i had Hollands on the bench and not as sub.
Keep the elite runners on the ground for longer, then you get more benefit from the sub who would otherwise tire more by comparison

I don't have Kennedy ahead of Dow at the moment.

I don't have Kennedy ahead of Dow at the moment.

Agree. Its fair enough for Dow to be forced to make room for Cerra or Walsh but not for Kennedy unless Dows form drops.

We are on a knife edges in terms of balance in getting the speed v contested players that run through the middle right and reckon having Hewitt Cripps and Kennedy all in at once when opposition teams get a run on is just too slow.

One of our main reasons we have got on this winning run is we are much faster across the ground and thats mainly due to the younger blokes holding down positions.

Dows no speed machine but he has that in close acceleration and side step that gives us that spurt out of congestion when games are close that i think is a massive plus.      

You could, but Cottrell is a running machine. A beast with elite running.
Cuningham works better as a burst player.

Same reason why i had Hollands on the bench and not as sub.
Keep the elite runners on the ground for longer, then you get more benefit from the sub who would otherwise tire more by comparison

I probably dont fancy Cottrell on better credentialed players for 4 quarters and see Cuningham as more of a classy match winner who can kick and create a few goals quickly and Id want him on the ground to start the game for that burst you mentioned and help get us off to a good start which is important.
But its all a matter of opinion and Im happy for both to be in the 23 at the minute.....

Docherty  plays midfield so Fisher will play. Hewitt misses out, as does Hollands, and I have Cuningham in. Dow and Kennedy have made the most impact as the Sub so due to injury I have Dow in.

Hewett was good last week when Cripps was down....I'd definitely have him in the 22.

I like Kruddler's line up....but maybe Dow in ahead of Fogarty. Fog's been really good but Dow would be very unlucky. Regardless, I can't remember the last time we were talking about who to include and who was available, and who to leave out. If Kennedy is fit, then it's pretty much only Silvagni and Williams unavailable.

We need to get as many in this week as possible (Gov, Cerra, Walsh, Kennedy, Fog), last chance to knock out the cobwebs and tune up for finals. Dont want to be doing that week 1 of finals.

We need to get as many in this week as possible (Gov, Cerra, Walsh, Kennedy, Fog), last chance to knock out the cobwebs and tune up for finals. Dont want to be doing that week 1 of finals.

How fabulous is it to be discussing our changes in preparation for FINALS...

This time last year we were losing players at a rate of knots. The players returning from injury were out of touch. Eventually culminating in missing finals by an infinitesimal measure.

I'm so  excited and still pinching myself. I have got our club song playing in my head when I get up and when I go to bed. Best bit. it doesn't bother me a bit.

Go Blues.

Cuningham's endurance is good. He's more than a speedy player. Probably still rusty after such a long time out.

Cuningham's endurance is good. He's more than a speedy player. Probably still rusty after such a long time out.

Yep I agree, he's missed a huge block of training, it must have an impact just like missing pre-season.

He might well be another that comes out flying after the week off!

Assuming he's 100% over the hammy, who the feck would want to stand Walsh after he has had a few weeks to freshen up and grow hungry at this time of the year. Somebody must be having nightmares about this, ready to throw up their ring I suspect, like standing a desperate Robert Harvey or Craig Bradley, you just know they are going to make you hurt. Even at my peak I'd be crying for mummy before 1/4-time! :o

There’s going to be some unlucky players among those named on our extended bench.

It’s a nice predicament to have but hard on those who miss out just the same.

Strong line up even without Doc.

My bench Cincotta, Pittonet, Fogarty, Fisher
Sub  Cuningham
Missing out:   Hollands, Marchbank, Durdin

Cuningham's endurance is good. He's more than a speedy player. Probably still rusty after such a long time out.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he is bringing up the rear in time trials, but Cottrell is very much in the lead pack with 2 curnows and maybe Walsh......and now maybe Hollands.

Cottrell is elite endurance.

Cuningham might be very good, he just isn't at the same level......which is fine, neither is anyone else on the list.

The starting 22 is a pretty strong line-up. Apart from Docherty and Zac Williams, it's almost the best we can do.

GWS will be up for the fight. A spot in finals on the line, continuation of their recent run of good form, Coniglio's 200th. I reckon they'll throw everything they have at us.

The starting 22 is a pretty strong line-up. Apart from Docherty and Zac Williams, it's almost the best we can do.

GWS will be up for the fight. A spot in finals on the line, continuation of their recent run of good form, Coniglio's 200th. I reckon they'll throw everything they have at us.

Kennedy and Silvagni are in my best 22.

I was half thinking that Voss may be tempted to ease up slightly, and whilst not putting the cue in the rack per se, maybe not go into the game with top intensity. But it seems as though he's going all out and not taking his foot off the pedal. It has the potential to be a cracker of a game IMO.

Interesting response from Vossy in his press conference regarding Cripps. Not totally convinced that he'll play based on the coach's comments which were far from definitive!!

Really proud of Dow and Cotts holding their spots in the 22 - well deserved lads.

I was 50/50 on this game but I think GWS may be a bit more motivated and we could be a bit flat. Last week vs GC it looked a bit of a tired effort until Charlie got into gear. I think the Bulldogs will win given Geelong have parked the cue in the rack for the year with their selections and with GWS then needing to win to make finals I can see them hanging on for a tight win.
We have some returning rusty players, have been up for a while and look due for a loss imho so GWS by 7 points.
Rather lose this week,get some game time into returning players and then freshen up with the break for the finals.
Id rest Cripps and not risk him if he is a bit sore...

Really proud of Dow and Cotts holding their spots in the 22 - well deserved lads.

We picked up two players from the Pre-season Supplemental Selection in Feb 2019. One was a much decorated ball magnet from Williamstown called Michael Gibbons and a kid with very few credentials called Matt Cottrell.  It has taken a while, but he's now become the ultimate role player, runs all day, hard at it and loves a goal. You don't need to be a superstar to play in a premiership team........just do your job!

We picked up two players from the Pre-season Supplemental Selection in Feb 2019. One was a much decorated ball magnet from Williamstown called Michael Gibbons and a kid with very few credentials called Matt Cottrell.  It has taken a while, but he's now become the ultimate role player, runs all day, hard at it and loves a goal. You don't need to be a superstar to play in a premiership team........just do your job!

There are not many games where Cotts has played and not topped the charts for most distance covered. I think since round 12, he has only been beaten Ed Curnow in one game and by Langdon in the Melb game. Workrate is second to none at our club, that's how you hold your place.

I'm not a  big believer in "the loss, you have to have".
I just wonder at the ability to maintain the kind of intense pressure we've been playing with over the last half of the season.
There must be some cumulative effect on a side, both mentally and physically.
At some point there may even be a breaking point if there is no down-time.

And after this game there will be no down time...it's about to ramp up 100%

I'm not a  big believer in "the loss, you have to have".
I just wonder at the ability to maintain the kind of intense pressure we've been playing with over the last half of the season.
There must be some cumulative effect on a side, both mentally and physically.
At some point there may even be a breaking point if there is no down-time.

And after this game there will be no down time...it's about to ramp up 100%

Winning form is good form - Geelong carried it all the way to the flag last year with 16 on the trot.  If we were get to the Big Dance and win, that would make it 14.......

Simple formula really, just keep winning.

My concern isnt that we're winning.
Winning is good.
Momentum is good.
It's the way we're winning and the draining nature of that game of intense pressure that we play.
We'll see if it's sustainable, but it wont surprise if we have a bit of a dip....and after this weekend we can't afford a dip.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1414266/what-they-said

Scroll down to the bottom and listen to Voss's post match talk to the players. It's very good.
There's a message there that it's not all set in stone, that hard matches 'may' take a toll, and the effort and concentration has to be maintained.

My concern isnt that we're winning.
Winning is good.
Momentum is good.
It's the way we're winning and the draining nature of that game of intense pressure that we play.
We'll see if it's sustainable, but it wont surprise if we have a bit of a dip....and after this weekend we can't afford a dip.

Pressure makes diamonds.

Pressure makes diamonds.

It also makes cracks. ;)

It also makes cracks. ;)

Not if the right material is used.

I guess what I'm getting at is that we shouldn't lose the plot if we have a less than impressive performance on the weekend.
We're in good shape.
Our best is probably good enough to match it with any other side in contention.
The game that matters is in two weeks time, not two days.
I don't subscribe to the opinion that we have to keep performing at our optimum level to perform when it counts.
If we play GWS two weeks in a row I'd rather we play our best game on the second week.

My concern isnt that we're winning.
Winning is good.
Momentum is good.
It's the way we're winning and the draining nature of that game of intense pressure that we play.
We'll see if it's sustainable, but it wont surprise if we have a bit of a dip....and after this weekend we can't afford a dip.

I think we had a bit of a dip last game. Those who'd been 'covering' for the significant outs, and doing it brilliantly, were tiring. But they found extra after qtr time, regained ground, and hung on to win... against a better opponent that 44 pt turnaround may not have been possible. There seems to be an embedded expectation with this group now to win, and to find a way to win regardless of the circumstances. Strong above the shoulders stuff, a 180 degree turnaround.

Rapt that we'll be meeting a good side in very good form this Sunday. Hopefully other results go their way and come Sunday at 6:10pm they'll be fighting for a place in the 8.

I think we had a bit of a dip last game. Those who'd been 'covering' for the significant outs, and doing it brilliantly, were tiring. But they found extra after qtr time, regained ground, and hung on to win... against a better opponent that 44 pt turnaround may not have been possible. There seems to be an embedded expectation with this group now to win, and to find a way to win regardless of the circumstances. Strong above the shoulders stuff, a 180 degree turnaround.

Rapt that we'll be meeting a good side in very good form this Sunday. Hopefully other results go their way and come Sunday at 6:10pm they'll be fighting for a place in the 8.

Yep, the key is not to fall behind by 44 points to begin with, and wrestle back the momentum earlier.

I choose to believe the weekend was a learning experience.  The learning being, arrest the momentum before the game gets to that point and then bring it back later. 

I guess what I'm getting at is that we shouldn't lose the plot if we have a less than impressive performance on the weekend.
We're in good shape.
Our best is probably good enough to match it with any other side in contention.
The game that matters is in two weeks time, not two days.
I don't subscribe to the opinion that we have to keep performing at our optimum level to perform when it counts.
If we play GWS two weeks in a row I'd rather we play our best game on the second week.

Our serious business commences week one of the finals.

Am in complete agreement with the above

Just watched the second quarter v GC and we really did Will ourselves back into it. had we not been so knackered we would’ve put it away in the third but just couldn’t BUT still got the job done!

So proud of them and think it’ll be a very interesting game.

It won't be the end of the world if we lose on Sunday ... provided that we give 100% effort, maintain our ruthless attack on the aggot, and play our brand of footy.  Of course, if we do that, we should win.

I am a little concerned about the risk of bringing three players back into the team after injury.  They could be well off the pace and that could be critical against a desperate opposition.  I understand the need to get games into players before the finals and the inexplicable VFL fixture doesn't help there.  I would have left McGovern out or perhaps had him as the sub.

Blues by 25 points.

Am in complete agreement with the above

Just watched the second quarter v GC and we really did Will ourselves back into it. had we not been so knackered we would’ve put it away in the third but just couldn’t BUT still got the job done!

So proud of them and think it’ll be a very interesting game.

That's how I saw it too.
Similar to the Blues v GC earlier in the season. In both games we had the deck chairs out and GC rightly took advantage. The difference was thier inaccurate goalkicking in the former round v sharpshooters in the latter.

Once we switched on, we looked good against a talented side at home in the sun.

In terms of sustainability of the switched on system, I think that  comes down to the number of contributors. It also depends on the the arsenal the opposition have. That's where coaching and cohesiveness come in. Having the benef of finals experience gives knowledge of the different level of intensity and energy shifting required.

That siad. I think this game offers the perfect opportunity to apply our arsenal and learn accordingly.

Go Blues

Every side we play from now on would not have let us back in the game last week. Our last 3 weeks there has been a drop off, hoping it's due to Cerra and Walsh being out and that we can get back to the footy we were playing when we pumped Collingwood and Port.

Finals are all about gut running until you drop, they are a game scenario made for Walsh.

I'm not loading expectation on him, but he is going to be exciting to watch!

Every side we play from now on would not have let us back in the game last week. Our last 3 weeks there has been a drop off, hoping it's due to Cerra and Walsh being out and that we can get back to the footy we were playing when we pumped Collingwood and Port.

Yes. 2 of the last 3 weeks we have been very tardy early. Struggled to get going unlike previous weeks. Not as switched on as we should of been. St.Kilda we flicked a switch after half time and lifted the intensity where they struggled to get their hands on the ball. Last week though we were well down all day but somehow found a way while making very hard work of it. What a struggle that was! That was more nerve-racking than the previous week given what was on the line and how many times we kept falling behind. Just seemed to go on forever.

Melbourne game though, that was terrific given the grand final-like intensity (175 tackles combined, 88-87) and the players we had out. Last 18 min without a goal either way was long and stressful. Life was much easier previous weeks where we were just flogging the opposition.

I think we had a bit of a dip last game. Those who'd been 'covering' for the significant outs, and doing it brilliantly, were tiring. But they found extra after qtr time, regained ground, and hung on to win... against a better opponent that 44 pt turnaround may not have been possible. There seems to be an embedded expectation with this group now to win, and to find a way to win regardless of the circumstances. Strong above the shoulders stuff, a 180 degree turnaround.

Rapt that we'll be meeting a good side in very good form this Sunday. Hopefully other results go their way and come Sunday at 6:10pm they'll be fighting for a place in the 8.

Don't know about the players but last week was a draining for a supporter as it could get. Kept going on and on.

I'll be happy for Geelong to win over the Dogs to kill an extra incentive for GWS.

Cripps out

Going with one ruck this week so Pittonet has been omitted.

Are we guaranteed a home final in the first week...regardless of whether we finish 5th or 6th....or can we slide and possibly cop Sydney or GWS away?

Are we guaranteed a home final in the first week...regardless of whether we finish 5th or 6th....or can we slide and possibly cop Sydney or GWS away?

So many twists and turns!
I think we need to win the game convincingly.

In other news Jack Silvagni is a big chance to play in the Semi Final if we win the Elimination Final - I think the club could be confident he will return on that date and perhaps prepping the team  as only going in with one ruck with no notable back up to relieve TDK other than Harry this week. Interesting is an understatement.

Are we guaranteed a home final in the first week...regardless of whether we finish 5th or 6th....or can we slide and possibly cop Sydney or GWS away?

Sydney would have to beat Melbourne by a big margin. Plus St.Kilda would have to beat Brisbane at the Gabba.

IN:
Adam Cerra,
Lachie Fogarty,
Mitch McGovern,
Sam Walsh

OUT:
Caleb Marchbank (Omitted),
Ed Curnow (Sub),
Marc Pittonet (Omitted),
Patrick Cripps (Injured),
Sam Docherty (Injured)

Going with one ruck this week so Pittonet has been omitted.

I can't understand the MC.

When we have a backup ruck in the team (Jack or Young) we play 2 rucks.
When we don't. We play 1 ruck.

We need the halfway point, 1 ruck, 1 part timer backup.

If Jack was playing this week, drop Pitto, fine. But is Harry our 2nd ruck now??  ::)

Are we guaranteed a home final in the first week...regardless of whether we finish 5th or 6th....or can we slide and possibly cop Sydney or GWS away?

5th or 6th is home, 7th or 8th is away (which will only be interstate if an interstate team finishes 5th or 6th).

Going with one ruck this week so Pittonet has been omitted.

The forward/2nd ruck is a valuable, and underrated commodity. Even Melbourne couldn't make two star power no.1 rucks work. One reason Levi will make it to 200 games despite his limited ability. He could do both roles competently.

Are we guaranteed a home final in the first week...regardless of whether we finish 5th or 6th....or can we slide and possibly cop Sydney or GWS away?

we can slide and possibly cop an away game to Sydney or St. Kilda

@Gointocarlton
Might want to update your sig.

2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022 - Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023 - "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted
2024 - Back to the drawing board

No Cripps, no Kennedy, and to a lesser extent no Docherty makes the midfield smaller, and certainly affects quality rotations. Tom Green and Callan Ward suddenly have a spring in their step. I was hoping to see Tom de Koning tried out as a part time ruck rover like Matthew Kreuzer, but with Pittonet omitted, he'll have his hands full in the ruck. Kieren Briggs is a fair lump, not sure what the MC are thinking.

Pittonet may have still been carrying a bit of an injury so the couple of weeks off may be what he needs.
We'll present a different combination when things get serious.
McKay might do a bit of rucking this weekend.

No problem if Harry rucks all stoppages forward of centre and TDK takes all centre bounces and stoppages on wings and defence.

With Pittonet, Cripps and Kennedy out, our one wood clearance game will clearly be compromised. GWS will have to start favourites IMO.

I think they'd be favourites anyway, if they're playing for their final's spot.
Our selections suggest we're already in management mode.
If by the time the match comes around GWS has its spot sewn up it could be a bruise free game.

With Pittonet, Cripps and Kennedy out, our one wood clearance game will clearly be compromised. GWS will have to start favourites IMO.

Cerra+Walsh are fair cover for losing Cripps....and Kennedy was already out.

Pittonet out on form is fine, he hasn't looked right since he came back from his injury. However Pittonet out for team balance is where things don't add up. TDK can't ruck all game, he struggles when he is #1 ruck with a backup. How will he cope playing #1 ruck with no backup? This is where our clearance game will suffer. We might be able to eek a win out this week, potentially next week in a return trip, but i wouldn't wanna rely on that for all of finals.

Pittonet may have still been carrying a bit of an injury so the couple of weeks off may be what he needs.
We'll present a different combination when things get serious.
McKay might do a bit of rucking this weekend.

Harry might attend the ruck contest but calling what he provides when in attendance " rucking" would be a gross exaggeration....😉

Harry might attend the ruck contest but calling what he provides when in attendance " rucking" would be a gross exaggeration....😉

He only has to provide a contest and get the ball to ground.

He only has to provide a contest and get the ball to ground.

Providing a contest might be a stretch for Harry, he is very much the gentle giant and gets shoved out the way fairly easily by smaller players. To be honest Id have more faith in the undersized McGovern being able to give us a bit more around the ground to compensate. Knowing our luck too Harry will do himself an injury and my preference is Harry doesnt ruck at all and I might have brought in Young to provide help in that area.

Harry wouldnt do any worse or better than Young and Jack. He may even win some hit outs due to his reach and he is very agile on the ground for a big bloke so who knows. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.

Harry wouldnt do any worse or better than Young and Jack. He may even win some hit outs due to his reach and he is very agile on the ground for a big bloke so who knows. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.

Harry would do better than Young. But he won't do better than Jack.

Jack, like his father, is excellent at using his body. Young, and to a lesser extent Harry, rely on their height, and have poor body on body work. Add to the fact that Jack is the only one that is of use once the ball hits the ground too.

But the most important factor in all of this....Harry is recovering from injury, a knee injury at that. The last thing you want him to be doign is pushing/shoving/jumping in the ruck.
Jack, also will be recovering from a knee injury, but he wouldn't be one of our top 2 targets up forward like Harry is. We can 'sacrifice' jack.

TDK as #1 ruck is not ideal.
Harry as #2 ruck is not ideal.
I doubt it will be enough to make us lose the game...but it certainly isn't going to be a positive.

Harry would do better than Young. But he won't do better than Jack.

Jack, like his father, is excellent at using his body. Young, and to a lesser extent Harry, rely on their height, and have poor body on body work. Add to the fact that Jack is the only one that is of use once the ball hits the ground too.

But the most important factor in all of this....Harry is recovering from injury, a knee injury at that. The last thing you want him to be doign is pushing/shoving/jumping in the ruck.
Jack, also will be recovering from a knee injury, but he wouldn't be one of our top 2 targets up forward like Harry is. We can 'sacrifice' jack.

TDK as #1 ruck is not ideal.
Harry as #2 ruck is not ideal.
I doubt it will be enough to make us lose the game...but it certainly isn't going to be a positive.

Young has more idea than Harry imho...he rucked for the Dogs in finals and while nothing special has some ruck nous  unlike Harry.
Agree Jack would be better but I think rucking Harry is just inviting trouble with injury..

The rucking of Harry might be the making of Harry.

Ultimately, we don't need to ruck him, he just needs to attend throw ins and forward stoppages.

All that being said, someone wanted us to improve our score from turnover stats.

Perhaps we are experimenting with a different mix.

Harry's taken a few ruck contests in the forward line
Has he ever been the Number 2 ruck in a game for an extended time?
Is the plan to see how he goes in that role for an extended time, given that Jack may still struggle to get back on the ground this year.

If Harry does go OK then it gives the option of playing one ruck plus Harry, rather than Pitto and TDK.
We're making judgements on McKay in a role he hasn't filled yet.
We can guess he'll struggle but lets see how it goes.

Harry might attend the ruck contest but calling what he provides when in attendance " rucking" would be a gross exaggeration....😉

Check out Harry’s HTA% 🙄

Seriously though, his forward 50 ruckwork was quite good before his injury. I think that he must have been working with Matty K.

Expect him to take possession whenever he can.

Harry said on his podcast he hates rucking.

Harry said on his podcast he hates rucking.

He'll do what he's told ;D

(Wouldn't be surprised if Pittonet still plays)

Ed Curnow is the confirmed sub then. Lift him up boys, it's likely to be his farewell game.

No other options for the #2 ruck except Harry in the team. I do see TDK taking centre bounces and backline ruck work. Harry for the forward line and some ball-ups as well. TDK will still need a small number of minutes to rest. I say H just leaps, but not crash too much, in the centre bounces.

No other options for the #2 ruck except Harry in the team.

If that is how it pans out, then it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Actually, the player who can probably 2nd ruck the best but hasn't all season, is McGovern.

But I'm expecting late changes.

If that is how it pans out, then it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Actually, the player who can probably 2nd ruck the best but hasn't all season, is McGovern.

But I'm expecting late changes.

I misread the outs. Marchbank is omitted, but there's no confirmed sub! But I still think it will be near the end Ed, even with a "smaller" line-up in our team, for the run. Is McGovern fit enough to ruck, just coming back from a hamstring? If he rucks secondly, we might be thinking that Cincotta will be the 3rd man interceptor in the air to help out Weitering and Kemp then. Hogan had a day out last week, but he'll have his hands full this week against Weitering.

Is McGovern fit enough to ruck, just coming back from a hamstring?

Very true, but is it worse than Harry rucking coming back from a knee?

It might be debut time for somebody!

Last chance to fine tune some things and Harry playing Forward/Ruck is worth a try.
Charlie is superstardom-like and only needs a Key defender dragged away from his zone. Both Harry and TDK can do that.
Harry is obviously better forward than TDK and can do damage himself on his own right but rucking forward of centre all game is worth a shot..

Very true, but is it worse than Harry rucking coming back from a knee?

It might be debut time for somebody!

Debut for Hudson (or the other Harry I should also say)? It would be very surprising. Keefe is their second ruckman. Hit-outs will definitely be going their way. Our likely second ruck still appears to be Harry. But it seems doubtful he will leap into centre bounce contests. He'll probably stay on the ground and use his arm, open or tucked in and push off the opposing player, when it's his turn to go, while TDK takes some minutes on the bench.

Providing a contest might be a stretch for Harry, he is very much the gentle giant and gets shoved out the way fairly easily by smaller players. To be honest Id have more faith in the undersized McGovern being able to give us a bit more around the ground to compensate. Knowing our luck too Harry will do himself an injury and my preference is Harry doesnt ruck at all and I might have brought in Young to provide help in that area.

Tap ruck department he might struggle, not that i'm worried about that. Around the ground though he'll do very well.

Check out Harry’s HTA% 🙄

Seriously though, his forward 50 ruckwork was quite good before his injury. I think that he must have been working with Matty K.

Expect him to take possession whenever he can.

:P

For those playing at home...
Chance of a hitout to advantage from a ruck contest (RC-HTA%)
4.5% - C. Curnow
4.8% - McKay
8.1% - Young
8.6% - Silvagni
10.9% - TDK
14.5% - Pittonet

McGovern has only ever attended 7 ruck contests in his career, and never got a hitout to advantage.

:P

McGovern has only ever attended 7 ruck contests in his career, and never got a hitout to advantage.

I suspect that says more about the stat system than Gov's career, anyone who watched him stuffed into the 2nd ruck role back in his Crows days can attest to that! ;D

Also, a bit like Liam Jones years back, Gov spent a number of games as 2nd ruck in the VFL, he was more than reasonable at it. Actually, I think at VFL level both Jones and McGovern made a better fist of fill-in rucking than either Young to Silvagni have so far.

But that's not to say they are my first preference, I'd rather run a Lemmey or O'Keefe as newbie than ruck either of Harry or McGovern, and I note Motlop is an out now, by 6pm tomorrow you might find it's a late out epidemic.

I'm not going the early Crow, but I'm gaining Nostradamus like confidence as each minutes passes to game time ................. not that this was hard to predict!

I suspect that says more about the stat system than Gov's career, anyone who watched him stuffed into the 2nd ruck role back in his Crows days can attest to that! ;D

Take it up with the stats guys. Has a total of 0 hitouts while with the crows, so clearly no hitouts to advantage.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/M/Mitch_McGovern.html

Motlop is a late out - Illness
C. Durdin comes in.

Something tells me this won't be the last change before the bounce.

Take it up with the stats guys. Has a total of 0 hitouts while with the crows, so clearly no hitouts to advantage.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/M/Mitch_McGovern.html

Don't care what the stats say, there was a period while he was at the Crows were they were crippled for rucks and they basically rotated a bunch of the KPPs through the ruck role including Mitch and he did quite well, in particular he had that mobility and quick recovery from the tap contest to get influential 2nd efforts.

Gov has those Go-Go-Gadget arms, with a good leap, let's him compete against far taller opponents. But even so I think he's too valuable for the finals to risk in the ruck, but like I said not my preference, in fact neither he or Harry is my preference. Play O'Keefe or Lemmey.

If we are going to sacrifice one or the other it's probably got to be Gov drawing the short straw ahead of Harry. A finals campaign could be dead in the water if we go forward with Charlie as a solo F50 target, but in D50 we have Kemp, Young, Durdin to roll alongside Weiters to help cover for Gov if he goes missing.

Motlop is a late out - Illness
C. Durdin comes in.

My PT client went to Qld last week, got sick there then on the plane back as seated amongst all the Carlton players. Hope it is just co-incidence.

My PT client went to Qld last week, got sick there then on the plane back as seated amongst all the Carlton players. Hope it is just co-incidence.

Go send them to hang out with GWS and/or Dogs players in the next week to give us a bye in week 1. ;)

Tis the season for tweaks and twinges.

Always happens just before finals, players start "noticing" stuff, or start to panic about fixing stuff up they have been carrying all season!

If the MC believes that the correct formula is Charlie, Harry, TDK and Pittonet in the same team, why aren't they giving it a workout this weekend?  With Pittonet and McKay's injuries this year, the 4 have hardly ever played together, and if Pittonet is out of form, he ain't going to find it in the twos!!!

If the MC believes that the correct formula is Charlie, Harry, TDK and Pittonet in the same team, why aren't they giving it a workout this weekend?  With Pittonet and McKay's injuries this year, the 4 have hardly ever played together, and if Pittonet is out of form, he ain't going to find it in the twos!!!

After the mess the twos made last week there is no chance there now.

If the MC believes that the correct formula is Charlie, Harry, TDK and Pittonet in the same team, why aren't they giving it a workout this weekend?  With Pittonet and McKay's injuries this year, the 4 have hardly ever played together, and if Pittonet is out of form, he ain't going to find it in the twos!!!

This is the puzzling thing.

2 key forward and 2 rucks (and Jack) is what they seem to have been hoping for all season. Injuries have stopped that from 4 of those 5.
They get close to it (missing Jack), and they change it up for the worst??

1 ruck works if you have a 3rd tall as backup (Jack, Young....whoever).
It doesn't really work if you are taking one of your KPPs.

Baffling.

:P

For those playing at home...
Chance of a hitout to advantage from a ruck contest (RC-HTA%)
4.5% - C. Curnow
4.8% - McKay
8.1% - Young
8.6% - Silvagni
10.9% - TDK
14.5% - Pittonet

McGovern has only ever attended 7 ruck contests in his career, and never got a hitout to advantage.

Taking possession from a ruck contest isn't a hitout to advantage.  It's a "ruck hardball get".

The better tall forwards are pretty adept at ruck hardball gets and Harry's got a few this season.

If the MC believes that the correct formula is Charlie, Harry, TDK and Pittonet in the same team, why aren't they giving it a workout this weekend?  With Pittonet and McKay's injuries this year, the 4 have hardly ever played together, and if Pittonet is out of form, he ain't going to find it in the twos!!!

The MC must think that Pitto, in his current form, is a liability.

Taking possession from a ruck contest isn't a hitout to advantage.  It's a "ruck hardball get".

The better tall forwards are pretty adept at ruck hardball gets and Harry's got a few this season.

That is essentially a clearance....usually.

I can check those stats, but its not 100% accurate as a player may win a clearance despite not being the ruck. Probably applies to Jack more than the others as he is more likely to be at a clearance while not rucking.....but still wouldn't be a regular thing.

These are career totals to get a better idea (bigger numbers, more accurate ;) )
Likelyhood a player will get a clearance from RC...
4.3% - Young
5.5% - Pittonet
5.8% - TDK
6.5% - Harry
17.0% - Jack

To get a more complete picture, either win the ruck OR get the clearance....
HTA + Clearance % from RC.....
11.3% - Harry
12.4% - Young
16.6% - TDK
20.1% - Pittonet
25.8% - Jack

Again, not as accurate as the pure ruck contests because you can attend a contest NOT as the ruck. You can technically get a hitout to advantage and also a clearance if they handball it back to you....although this is uncommon for rucks as we know.
But i think its pretty clear that the reason i've been pushing the Jack barrow as the 2nd ruck option is for team balance around the ground, including at stoppages.
1 out of 4 contests he attends, he gets a clear advantage from.
1 in 5 from Pittonet is a lot more accurate because he doesn't attend a stoppage unless he is rucking.....and similar for the others.

Regardless of the specifics of the numbers, its clear Harry is far from our best option as a ruck and backup ruck.

I suspect the experiment may work once, or even twice in the right circumstances. I can't seeing it being a flag winning move though.

I'll actually be surprised if Pittonet doesn't play.
The only reason I could see would be if he is carrying a niggle, but why not say managed rather than omitted if that's the case.

Again...it may be an experiment to see how McKay goes.
But if that's the case don't expect too much in the way of a win result.

We've gone too many changes we won't win IMHO.

We've gone too many changes we won't win IMHO.

A lot depends on the attitude and 'needs' of the opposition

We've gone too many changes we won't win IMHO.

Over the past two and a bit months we've had plenty of changes and loss of key personnel during games and still found a way to win.

I think it's more about the collective than individuals, and with everyone on the same page and with the same hunting attitude/doing his job, our team is very difficult to beat.

In regard to Pitto being an emergency I suspect we believe we may have been a bit too top heavy last outing. Perhaps TDK will ruck most, if not all day, from the forward fifty arc to defense with H taking forward line rucking duties.

Go through the archives and tell me the last time a squad had 5 changes to their 22 and won the match.  It ruins comtinuity and momentum and you can bet the farm on that!

Ive tipped against it all season and won.

That is essentially a clearance....usually.

I can check those stats, but its not 100% accurate as a player may win a clearance despite not being the ruck. Probably applies to Jack more than the others as he is more likely to be at a clearance while not rucking.....but still wouldn't be a regular thing.

These are career totals to get a better idea (bigger numbers, more accurate ;) )
Likelyhood a player will get a clearance from RC...
4.3% - Young
5.5% - Pittonet
5.8% - TDK
6.5% - Harry
17.0% - Jack

To get a more complete picture, either win the ruck OR get the clearance....
HTA + Clearance % from RC.....
11.3% - Harry
12.4% - Young
16.6% - TDK
20.1% - Pittonet
25.8% - Jack

Again, not as accurate as the pure ruck contests because you can attend a contest NOT as the ruck. You can technically get a hitout to advantage and also a clearance if they handball it back to you....although this is uncommon for rucks as we know.
But i think its pretty clear that the reason i've been pushing the Jack barrow as the 2nd ruck option is for team balance around the ground, including at stoppages.
1 out of 4 contests he attends, he gets a clear advantage from.
1 in 5 from Pittonet is a lot more accurate because he doesn't attend a stoppage unless he is rucking.....and similar for the others.

Regardless of the specifics of the numbers, its clear Harry is far from our best option as a ruck and backup ruck.

I suspect the experiment may work once, or even twice in the right circumstances. I can't seeing it being a flag winning move though.

It may be counted as a clearance if the player gets a disposal.    A "ruck hardball get" is a specific category used by Champion Data.  Midway through last season Tom Hawkins had 20 "ruck hardball gets", something like twice as many as the next best.

I noticed when Jack took clean possession from a ruck contest and kicked a goal (when he injured his knee) that he wasn't credited with a hitout to advantage but was given a contested possession.  I imagine that if you drilled down further, there'd be a "ruck hardball get".

I know that Harry has got several this season and Charlie has at least one.

I will be expecting Harry to go for clean possessions whenever he can.

I noticed when Jack took clean possession from a ruck contest and kicked a goal (when he injured his knee) that he wasn't credited with a hitout to advantage but was given a contested possession.  I imagine that if you drilled down further, there'd be a "ruck hardball get".

Same as Cripps, given contested possession for taking it out of the ruck in F50.

It's another example of somewhat bogus reporting of stats, because the ruck can defeat his opponent hands down in F50 take the ball cleanly, and it just gets reported as Contested Possession or Score Assist.

Melbourne is having the same problem both Grundy and Gawn cant play in the same team as can't play forward.
Luckily we are paying Pittonet as much as a fourth round pick should get paid so we can carry him.

Subject to further results, there will be more changes you can almost guarantee it.

If the bulldogs dont win, our game tomorrow becomes the equivalent as a training run.

If the bulldogs dont win, our game tomorrow becomes the equivalent as a training run.

So... if Cats beat Dogs, we play GWS wk1 of finals?
At home?

If the bulldogs dont win, our game tomorrow becomes the equivalent as a training run.

Saints lost so home elimination final is guaranteed.

It may be counted as a clearance if the player gets a disposal.    A "ruck hardball get" is a specific category used by Champion Data.  Midway through last season Tom Hawkins had 20 "ruck hardball gets", something like twice as many as the next best.

I noticed when Jack took clean possession from a ruck contest and kicked a goal (when he injured his knee) that he wasn't credited with a hitout to advantage but was given a contested possession.  I imagine that if you drilled down further, there'd be a "ruck hardball get".

I know that Harry has got several this season and Charlie has at least one.

I will be expecting Harry to go for clean possessions whenever he can.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that its kinda like a hitout....if it doesn't get to a teammate, what does it matter?

Hawkins can push his opponent out of the way, grab the ball (and get his ruck hardball get) but if he gets tackled straight away and the balls spills free or its another ball up, what was the benefit in doing so? If he gets a boot to ball, he'll get the clearance.
In the Jack play you mention, he would've got a clearance for that though (as well as his ruck hardball get).
So your stat is correct, but i'm just cutting out the middle man and going straight to the clearance.

Its actually something Pittonet is good at, grabbing the ball out of the ruck and throwing it on the boot. Its why his clearance numbers are not so bad despite the fact he almost never picks the ball up off the deck.

I really hope the boys don’t lose track of the collective and get unduly distracted by Charlie’s potential Coleman. The person having the shot should be the one in best position, be it Charlie or someone else. When and if the game is in the bag, by all means give him the ball. The collective effort has played no small part in our recent great form, and it’s importance should not be downplayed. There’s no shame for Charlie to be a winner and also runner up in the Coleman , and certainly no shame finishing second to arguably the best shot for goal the game has seen.

It's another example of somewhat bogus reporting of stats, because the ruck can defeat his opponent hands down in F50 take the ball cleanly, and it just gets reported as Contested Possession or Score Assist.

bogus stats or bogus reading.....
You get credited with a clearance.

I really hope the boys don’t lose track of the collective and get unduly distracted by Charlie’s potential Coleman. The person having the shot should be the one in best position, be it Charlie or someone else. When and if the game is in the bag, by all means give him the ball. The collective effort has played no small part in our recent great form, and it’s importance should not be downplayed. There’s no shame for Charlie to be a winner and also runner up in the Coleman , and certainly no shame finishing second to arguably the best shot for goal the game has seen.

THE best shot for goal the game has seen? I'd agree with ONE of the best, I reckon there are few handy ones ahead of him. I can't go passed Lockett and Dunstall for accuracy, routine, reliability.

THE best shot for goal the game has seen? I'd agree with ONE of the best, I reckon there are few handy ones ahead of him. I can't go passed Lockett and Dunstall for accuracy, routine, reliability.

Yes, those two and Walker would all be in the conversation for sure.

EDIT : if you needed a set shot after the siren to win a GF, I don't think you could go wrong with any of those three.

Quite a diverse emergency list to choose a sub from....

[22] Caleb Marchbank,
[27] Marc Pittonet,
[37] Jordan Boyd,
[35] Ed Curnow

Quite a diverse emergency list to choose a sub from....

[22] Caleb Marchbank,
[27] Marc Pittonet,
[37] Jordan Boyd,
[35] Ed Curnow

Who gives us most flexibility??

Who gives us most flexibility??

Nobody really.  :-\

I'm now more worried about Charlie kicking 2 goals! It's a team game for sure but would be a bummer to get pipped for the Coleman in the last game of the season.

I'm now more worried about Charlie kicking 2 goals! It's a team game for sure but would be a bummer to get pipped for the Coleman in the last game of the season.

If Charlie plays the way he has been, and the team continues its ruthless footy, the goals will flow.

However, if Charlie feels that he can best serve the team by driving bullet passes to teammates inside 50, he'll do that and forget about the Coleman.

There is very little to actually play for in this game.

I suspect in 120 minutes of football, our boys will find charlie enough to give him 2 goals.
I suspect they will go there early and get it over and done with to stop a fev-like issue popping up late.

Quite a diverse emergency list to choose a sub from....

[22] Caleb Marchbank,
[27] Marc Pittonet,
[37] Jordan Boyd,
[35] Ed Curnow

Depth. What a wonderful thing. One to be named sub still at this stage.

There is very little to actually play for in this game.

I suspect in 120 minutes of football, our boys will find charlie enough to give him 2 goals.
I suspect they will go there early and get it over and done with to stop a fev-like issue popping up late.

Yes, i'm thinking not get injured, and getting kms into Cerra, Walsh and Durdin might be the prime goal today from many. We have nothing to play for at all. Compare that to the "life and death" situation of the opposition. Be a good indication of our mindset as a club if we have a good win. I'm thinking Charlie will get 2 somehow. Players will make sure of that.

Depth. What a wonderful thing. One to be named sub still at this stage.

Ed would be my bet. A John Farnham Last Time swansong. Kennedy is on track to be fit again for the finals. Cerra and Walsh coming back after some time, Hollands may be tired and could be the guy he replaces.

There is very little to actually play for in this game.

I suspect in 120 minutes of football, our boys will find charlie enough to give him 2 goals.
I suspect they will go there early and get it over and done with to stop a fev-like issue popping up late.

6pm on a Sunday night. My seats will be vacant.

Ed would be my bet. A John Farnham Last Time swansong. Kennedy is on track to be fit again for the finals. Cerra and Walsh coming back after some time, Hollands may be tired and could be the guy he replaces.

Would have been nice if the 2nds had actually put in last week so the likes of Kennedy could have a run.

6pm on a Sunday night. My seats will be vacant.

Same here ... the degree of difficulty was too high  :(

Same here ... the degree of difficulty was too high  :(

I'll be there, but I'll pay for it tonight and tomorrow. I struggle to get to sleep after the game these days. Day games much preferred.

Waiting for release of finals fixture for Week 1 and booking a ticket and flying over......2-0 for games in Melbourne this year.

Waiting for release of finals fixture for Week 1 and booking a ticket and flying over......2-0 for games in Melbourne this year.

When do week 1 tickets go on sale?

Yep
This is a  bit off a 'no anxiety' game.
A win would be nice.
Getting through injury free with a bit of a run into some of our injured is all we really need.

The reality is 'desire' and a 'job that needs to be done' can make a difference in most games.
When the opposition is playing for their season it can be significant.

Just by the nature of some of our selections I suspect the side are primed to just get through the game and make a bit of a contest.
They may be called on to 'up the tempo' and increase the pressure at various times in the game but I won't be surprised if it's not a full-on four quarter effort.
We could make a statement with just a short burst of our pressure football... as much as to say "This is what's coming for you if we play you in two weeks time".

We may see some good football from some of our fringe players who are playing for their finals spot, and I think there will be a bit of an effort to get a few goals to Charlie.
There may be some experimentation...possibly around the rucking for example.

The funny thing is that there is a danger in all this for GWS.
If they come in with the attitude "Carlton has nothing to play for" and think it will be an easy task then they may get a bit of a shock.

I suspect our team will now go hard early to secure Charlie the Coleman, and after that they will play the game as it unfolds in front of them.

I suspect our team will now go hard early to secure Charlie the Coleman, and after that they will play the game as it unfolds in front of them.

Sam Taylor's out now so that will help.

Sam Taylor's out now so that will help.

Tanking! ;)  :D

The confirmed sub will be, Marchbank.

Depth. What a wonderful thing. One to be named sub still at this stage.

Marchbank.

You got me by that much… 🤣

Melbourne will win. 16pts up, 4.50 to go. So the one side we won't be playing week 1 is GWS. Be the Swans to the Dogs most likely. Have to lose by 44pts to play St.Kilda.

EDIT: I take that back. We can't play St.Kilda given Sydney lost.

Melbourne will win. 16pts up, 4.50 to go. So the one side we won't be playing week 1 is GWS. Be the Swans to the Dogs most likely. Have to lose by 44pts to play St.Kilda.

Who we playing the following week?

Melbourne's defence is so strong. Hardest thing to pass. They're my winners this year.

Who we playing the following week?

A win will be Melbourne or Collingwood.

Sam Taylor a late out.

Charlie Curnow would be fav for the Coleman now with the probable AA fullback missing for GWS...thats a big loss for GWS, might even cost them a final given he kept Charlie to two goals last time..