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Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1290
100 percent correct, its a collective effort.
High level cricket relies upon having the skill sets to execute plans, and that's the problem I have with Starc.  Part of that is sustained pressure, and he releases it too often by bowling junk.  Sure, he gets wickets with Jaffas and that's a legitimate approach to taking wickets, but he seemingly doesn't worry about the other rubbish and that hurts the collective bowling effort.  He is also deadly when conditions suit (eg the night test Adelaide) but so often on flat decks he's old rope.  I thought he was a highlights package bowler in the ashes (images of him getting carted) and was staggered when he received a gong.  In the two most recent home series vs. India he shouldn't have played the last games, he was below par and we lost both. 
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1291
But that’s also the dice they (selectors and captain) roll.
“You get wickets and you over there, you get runs”
The balance has tipped to attack, dig in, graft, occupy for batsmen and contain, limit and choke for bowlers are out of favour.

Footy is similar, you run not only to create an opportunity for your teammates but to hurt your direct opponent.
How many touches you get is largely irrelevant.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1292
100 percent correct, its a collective effort.
High level cricket relies upon having the skill sets to execute plans, and that's the problem I have with Starc.  Part of that is sustained pressure, and he releases it too often by bowling junk.  Sure, he gets wickets with Jaffas and that's a legitimate approach to taking wickets, but he seemingly doesn't worry about the other rubbish and that hurts the collective bowling effort.  He is also deadly when conditions suit (eg the night test Adelaide) but so often on flat decks he's old rope.  I thought he was a highlights package bowler in the ashes (images of him getting carted) and was staggered when he received a gong.  In the two most recent home series vs. India he shouldn't have played the last games, he was below par and we lost both.
I suspect the CA wear this because if they don't they will further kill Test Cricket, the only thing that even gave the Pakis a sniff was Starc letting them off the hook with 90% pie chucking.

But that might be the trick for him, because somewhere in the remaining 10% is an unplayable delivery when conditions suit and when he is switched on, you just have to wear the rest. It's that last point that is the most burring, because often the pie chucking seems attitude based not a result of the conditions or pressure, it's like he switches off and body language exposes a Laissez-faire approach, I assert that is what is most grating to cricket die hards.

We grew up watching blokes like Sobers, Lillee, Ambrose, Garner, Willis, Hadlee give batsmen nothing, the idea of a half-ar5ed spell was anathema to them, they were dirty on just releasing one bad delivery. Not only did you have to survive, but getting runs off them was like growing algae on a rock for a daily feed!

Now in context look at the batting records tumble, can you imagine if blokes that did dominate like Richards, Simpson, Walters or Border were batting now getting 2 or 3 lose pills an over or having a Cummins type try to bounce them out on the modern pitches, pitches that look like relative batting paradise compared to the 60s, 70s or 80s?
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1293
I suspect the CA wear this because if they don't they will further kill Test Cricket, the only thing that even gave the Pakis a sniff was Starc letting them off the hook with 90% pie chucking.

But that might be the trick for him, because somewhere in the remaining 10% is an unplayable delivery when conditions suit and when he is switched on, you just have to wear the rest. It's that last point that is the most burring, because often the pie chucking seems attitude based not a result of the conditions or pressure, it's like he switches off and body language exposes a Laissez-faire approach, I assert that is what is most grating to cricket die hards.

We grew up watching blokes like Sobers, Lillee, Ambrose, Garner, Willis, Hadlee give batsmen nothing, the idea of a half-ar5ed spell was anathema to them, they were dirty on just releasing one bad delivery. Not only did you have to survive, but getting runs off them was like growing algae on a rock for a daily feed!

Now in context look at the batting records tumble, can you imagine if blokes that did dominate like Richards, Simpson, Walters or Border were batting now getting 2 or 3 lose pills an over or having a Cummins type try to bounce them out on the modern pitches, pitches that look like relative batting paradise compared to the 60s, 70s or 80s?

When you read about him doing a net session after play because he was unhappy with his action, you know that his attitude is spot on.

I reckon Starc is more like Lee or Thommo than the bowlers you mentioned.  Even when his radar is a bit off, there's a good chance that his next ball will do some damage.

And the question remains, how was he Australian player of the last Ashes series if he was chucking pies?  Perhaps because he was the leading wicket taker ...

Starc has 342 wickets from 84 tests at an average of 27.53, marginally better than Mitch Johnson, Lee and Thommo and is ranked among the best Australian left arm quicks. 
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1294
The Voice of Cricket just now, “Another wicket for Mitchell Starc.  What a star for Australia!”

Interesting if brief discussion of Starc’s bowling by Jim Maxwell and Stuart Clark.  Basically, Clark maintains that there’s too much reliance on Starc and his impact as a strike bowler is diminished.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1295
And since that first over, 12 overs of very mundane crap, especially when he pitches short.

Cummins saving the day yet again.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1296
And so a decorated and some controversial career ends.
Thanks D Warner, an absolute star.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1297
 Certainly a controversial character who made some serious errors of judgment, but a very good career despite that.

What’s the chances of a couple of 8 year old cricket mates going on to open the batting for Australia … and very successfully at that?

Warner said that he was hoping for a Test spot bowling some leg spin and batting at 6 or 7 🙄
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1298
Certainly a controversial character who made some serious errors of judgment, but a very good career despite that.

What’s the chances of a couple of 8 year old cricket mates going on to open the batting for Australia … and very successfully at that?

Warner said that he was hoping for a Test spot bowling some leg spin and batting at 6 or 7 🙄
I love Warner's and Uzi's stories. Warner was a local "backyard" cricketer when given a go.
Uzi's career seemed and dead and buried, persistence saw it resurrected. Just goes to show if you want something bad enough, you can make a name for yourself in sport and get rewarded handsomely as Warner did in the IPL.
I was listening to Stan The Man Longanides on radio yesterday, his motto or rather what he tells kids is "what are you prepared to sacrifice, what are you prepared to give up to go up". It pretty simple.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1299
I love Warner's and Uzi's stories. Warner was a local "backyard" cricketer when given a go.
Uzi's career seemed and dead and buried, persistence saw it resurrected. Just goes to show if you want something bad enough, you can make a name for yourself in sport and get rewarded handsomely as Warner did in the IPL.
I was listening to Stan The Man Longanides on radio yesterday, his motto or rather what he tells kids is "what are you prepared to sacrifice, what are you prepared to give up to go up". It pretty simple.

I was made captain of our under 15 footy team and a kid who had dominated in under 13s the previous season didn't show up for training.  I tracked him down at school and asked whether he was going to play in the under 15s.  His response was, "I want to play Test cricket for Australia so I'm not going to play footy any more."

He went on to play 18 Tests for Australia after leaving our northern suburbs school for University High; Gary Cosier.

He would have made a difference to our under 15 team's chances but I discovered later that he had a dodgy back and probably should never have played footy at all.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1300
The question for me at the moment, is who is going to open?
I'm not a great fan of making an opener out of something else. Especially Green, whose performances promise much but deliver little.
I think Smith goes well enough at #4: making him open opens a hole in the middle of the order with no obvious replacement.
The specialist openers, I don't know that I'm convinced any of them will be what we need, but if we ignore guys who have done the hard yards, what message does that send to the guys playing Shield cricket? We've been something of a closed shop for too long and do need some new blood.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1301
The squads are somewhat bizarre, I can't see any rational to how some get bypassed while others get promoted, I suspect it's more about politics than form lines or potential. For example Renshaw gets in but has no form.
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1302
The squads are somewhat bizarre, I can't see any rational to how some get bypassed while others get promoted, I suspect it's more about politics than form lines or potential. For example Renshaw gets in but has no form.

Its amusing isnt it.....Warner pressured Bancroft who was trying to be one of the boys club by making him part of sandpapergate and has been banished every since yet all was forgiven with Warner and Smith. Bancroft throws the bowling contingent under the bus by saying they knew about what was going to happen but they sent him to Coventry and captain Cummins doesnt want him in the team and has the yes man coach Ronnie Mac doing what the players want. Of course Bancroft is a Justin Langer favourite so thats probably not helping him either.
Smith isnt an opener and I am yet to see what Green has done to be played at No4 apart from hang out with the right people....saying all that with such garbage opposition in Pakistan and the Windies this summer anyone could bat anywhere and still make runs or take wickets.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1303

Smith isnt an opener and I am yet to see what Green has done to be played at No4 apart from hang out with the right people....saying all that with such garbage opposition in Pakistan and the Windies this summer anyone could bat anywhere and still make runs or take wickets.
When they behave like this it's an old boys club, but it's probably good in that they conspire to make tests go 3 or 4 days, otherwise such is the difference between the best and the rest that we might be seeing more debacles like India vs The Saffies!
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #1304
When they behave like this it's an old boys club, but it's probably good in that they conspire to make tests go 3 or 4 days, otherwise such is the difference between the best and the rest that we might be seeing more debacles like India vs The Saffies!
South Africa with proper funding and management would be a force in world cricket but are in danger of being owned by India and becoming an irrelevant cricket colony.
The old cricket boys club is alive and well with its HQ in NSW, as people have always said its hard to get into the inner sanctum but once you get in its even harder to get pushed out.