Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

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Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #60 – July 18, 2021, 10:37:45 pm

One of my favourite moments was just before the final siren when Stocker delivered a shepherd/bump that knocked the stuffing out of Mihocek. Stocker is 184cm and 83kg, Mihocek is 192cm and 97kg but Stocker executed a textbook hip and shoulder that gave his teammate a clear passage and gave Mihocek something to think about next time we play the Pies.

Stocker and Mihocek were involved in some argy-bargy in the middle of the ground just minutes before and I couldn't help thinking that there was some payback involved in the bump.

Stocker doesn't take a backward step and it's good to see that doesn't mind dishing a bit out ... within the rules.

Another moment was when a young Collingwood player collected Eddie in the jaw. His response was along the lines, "Oh no! I've just shot Bambi!" It must be hard when youngsters come up against one of the present day icons of the game.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #61 – July 18, 2021, 10:46:42 pm

Quote from: jeza on July 18, 2021, 10:30:11 pm

Wasn't he on the young guy that kicked 3?

Was on Elliott for most of the second half.

Just don't watch a replay of the last time we played Collingwood if you're a Plowman fan... horror show.

No, Williams was on Henry when he got two of his goals and Walsh was his opponent for his first goal.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #62 – July 18, 2021, 11:12:50 pm

Quote from: DJC on July 18, 2021, 10:46:42 pm

No, Williams was on Henry when he got two of his goals and Walsh was his opponent for his first goal.

Were those two covering at the time?

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #63 – July 18, 2021, 11:33:58 pm

I thought the first 1/4 and a half the endeavour and effort was good, however, a lot of wasted energy as there was no connection anywhere, so we were running around like headless chooks and turning it over - really suffering by not having a CHF coming down the ground to kick to. This energy use, I thought was going to bite us when we did get it sorted. Nearly turned off the TV.

It was just me watching until half way through the third, then the rest of the family joined in. It was great. There were some solid efforts by heaps, but the energy and enthusiasm grew. Family didn't like how anxious I was until we were 4 goals up!

As a note, Dow has always been really strong in the hips - now he has matured, he gets through some tackles pretty well.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #64 – July 18, 2021, 11:35:36 pm

Great win today, loved H, JSoS, Weitering, Williams, Saad, Eddie, Walsh, Dow, Stocker and Kennedy, but I’m sorry Plowman and Newnes have to go now

Yes they work hard, but they’re both average-poor players and you’d be very hard pressed to find any non-Carlton supporter say otherwise.

I’d be playing McGovern in Plowmans spot once the former is available and I’d also be replacing Newnes with one of Carroll, Honey or Kemp, as soon as one of them is ready.

With those regards replacements we’ll be better again.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #65 – July 18, 2021, 11:58:10 pm

Quote from: dodge on July 18, 2021, 11:33:58 pm

I thought the first 1/4 and a half the endeavour and effort was good, however, a lot of wasted energy as there was no connection anywhere, so we were running around like headless chooks and turning it over - really suffering by not having a CHF coming down the ground to kick to. This energy use, I thought was going to bite us when we did get it sorted. Nearly turned off the TV.

It was just me watching until half way through the third, then the rest of the family joined in. It was great. There were some solid efforts by heaps, but the energy and enthusiasm grew. Family didn't like how anxious I was until we were 4 goals up!

As a note, Dow has always been really strong in the hips - now he has matured, he gets through some tackles pretty well.

The first qtr and abit were as bad as Ive seen from an execution point of view. When we are bad, we look like at team of individuals that have come together to play for the first time. No cohesion whatsoever.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #66 – July 19, 2021, 12:04:19 am

Quote from: jeza on July 18, 2021, 08:13:28 pm

Jordan Boyd
Levi Casboult
David Cuningham
Charlie Curnow
Sam Docherty
Michael Gibbons
Caleb Marchbank
Oscar McDonald
Mitch McGovern
Alex Mirkov
Marc Murphy
Sam Philp
Marc Pittonet
Patrick Cripps

14 out. What an effort to win 3 of the last 4. Zero depth in the big men stakes. Dekoning too young to be playing first ruck and still bring home the 4 points.

SOS was immense today. Such a competitor!

Agree that’s a long injury list but in all honesty the bulk of the list are not first starters. I reckon there is only 4 maybe 5 on that list that make our team better then the one fielded today.
The rest are either unknowns back ups or finished.
And even then you will struggle to find 5 players to drop out to make way.
Pies also had some good outs too in Howe Daicos and Moore and have a stand in coach and are sitting 15th on the ladder.
I was very pleased with the win but let’s not get too ahead of ourself and make out like we fielded a reserve side and beat a top team.
We did what we should have today imo and should be able to do the same in the next few weeks with the opposition we are facing.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #67 – July 19, 2021, 08:06:40 am

Plowman finished top five in the 2019 and 2020 B+F, top 10 in 2017. Rated by 2 senior coaches. Spoken about in positive terms by Teague. The club appealed his suspension earlier this year, which they don't often do. Last year he signed a 3 year extension, which runs until the end of 2023.

For better or worse, he's rated by the club, and not going anywhere.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #68 – July 19, 2021, 08:50:09 am

Quote from: PaulP on July 19, 2021, 08:06:40 am

Plowman finished top five in the 2019 and 2020 B+F, top 10 in 2017. Rated by 2 senior coaches. Spoken about in positive terms by Teague. The club appealed his suspension earlier this year, which they don't often do. Last year he signed a 3 year extension, which runs until the end of 2023.

For better or worse, he's rated by the club, and not going anywhere.

Amen, just shows how far away fan opinion is sometimes from reality in the football world.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #69 – July 19, 2021, 09:09:09 am

Quote from: DJC on July 18, 2021, 10:18:34 pm

Same here LP. He is a vital part of our defensive structure.

As a matter of interest, how many goals were scored by his direct opponent(s) today and how many score assists did they have? I can't think of any.

Well said, Spotted One and David.

Plowman gets the 'thankless task' every week. He is obviously valued by his team mates and that says a great deal. Integral part of our defense.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #70 – July 19, 2021, 09:27:13 am

I bang on about passion, ruthlessness, spirit, soul and brand... well, we have seen all of that since the bye. On these things you can build a dynasty.

Since Luke P has moved into a coaching role (temporarily) and Barker has gone there is a palpable shift in intensity. When Luke P worked with Cuningham and Dow, each player improved in all aspects of their game. Luke has stated that he will return to development when he is no longer required in the coaches box... great, we should extend his contract by 5 years!!!

Scoreboard reward for effort is so, so very important... which The TT acknowledged in his media conference post game. Spot on. And did we all not witness a further lift in intensity and commitment once we got the scoreboard ticking over with goals, not points! At the risk of making an extreme comment, that last qtr so reminded me of the CFC sides I saw in the 70s/80s & 90s where would we smote an opponent in one 'premiership' qtr.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #71 – July 19, 2021, 09:36:02 am

Quote from: DJC on July 18, 2021, 10:18:34 pm

As a matter of interest, how many goals were scored by his direct opponent(s) today and how many score assists did they have? I can't think of any.

Interestingly, even the media have picked up on the Plowman bashing. I noticed the specialist commentator carrying on about Plowman's direct opponent, I think it was Henry, but it wasn't really Plowman's opponent at the time it was Williamson's opponent. Plowman was covering for Williamson who was pushed up the ground into our F50, I suppose we were trying to drag Henry out of the Filth forward zone but he wasn't leaving goal range. In the end Williamson got involved in a couple of scoring chains in our F50 so that tactic worked despite making our D50 look vulnerable.

It all comes down to how much pressure we apply up the ground on the opposition ball carrier, no defender be it Weiters, Jones or Plowman can defend against lots of open space and unhindered free ball use by opposition mids and flanks. But if that ball carrier is put under pressure and made to kick the ball long and high we back in guys like Weiters, Jones and Plowman to at least get a fist into the footy.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #72 – July 19, 2021, 09:49:34 am

Quote from: LP on July 19, 2021, 09:36:02 am

Interestingly, even the media have picked up on the Plowman bashing. I noticed the specialist commentator carrying on about Plowman's direct opponent, I think it was Henry, but it wasn't really Plowman's opponent at the time it was Williamson's opponent. Plowman was covering for Williamson who was pushed up the ground into our F50, I suppose we were trying to drag Henry out of the Filth forward zone but he wasn't leaving goal range. In the end Williamson got involved in a couple of scoring chains in our F50 so that tactic worked despite making our D50 look vulnerable.

It all comes down to how much pressure we apply up the ground on the opposition ball carrier, no defender be it Weiters, Jones or Plowman can defend against lots of open space and unhindered free ball use by opposition mids and flanks. But if that ball carrier is put under pressure and made to kick the ball long and high we back in guys like Weiters, Jones and Plowman to at least get a fist into the footy.

The ability of Williams and Saad, and Willo and Stocker to a lesser extent, to go up the ground, intercept and drive the ball forward was an important factor in our win. The negative side to that tactic is the pressure applied to the stay at home defenders and Plowman is inevitably one of those. A very underrated and much maligned player is our Mr Plow!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #73 – July 19, 2021, 10:06:20 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton on July 18, 2021, 11:12:50 pm

Were those two covering at the time?

No, Walsh and Plowman were trying to cover for Williams for Henry’s first mark/goal. Plowman was on Elliot for a while but he was more often covering for Williams and Saad. Newman was covering for them too and he’s another who is unfairly criticised.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 18: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #74 – July 19, 2021, 10:12:37 am

Quote from: DJC on July 19, 2021, 10:06:20 am

No, Walsh and Plowman were trying to cover for Williams for Henry’s first mark/goal. Plowman was on Elliot for a while but he was more often covering for Williams and Saad. Newman was covering for them too and he’s another who is unfairly criticised.

Yep, it's not static opponent allocations like fans tend to believe players are told, it's more role based and Newman and Plowman are playing very similar roles and doing it well. But it inevitably leaves them in the hot seat from the time to time.

We will see more of this if Teague get's his way, he basically told the fans that is what he wanted the team to do, and when we do it well you can see it's got merit.

In my opinion it's no accident Teague has this game plan, he is a career AFL defender of significant quality, and he knows what worked and what didn't. He knows how to make the opposition uncomfortable because it is what made him uncomfortable, and Plowman and Newman are players very much cast in the mould of Teague.