AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

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Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #75 – July 18, 2022, 12:52:50 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on July 18, 2022, 12:46:19 pm

Soooooo?

Identifying the conflation makes the assertion there is a global FL agenda an absurdity.

Just because there are multiple individual examples of a prejudicial behaviour, won't automatically mean it is systematic or that identifying the examples has asserted that it is systematic.

The association that a unique and identifiable set of events can be combined to highlight a global conspiracy is a fallacy, it's Trumpesque.

( btw., What did you think of Donald allegedly having Ivana pushed down the stairs? )

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #76 – July 18, 2022, 01:06:34 pm

Quote from: crashlander on July 16, 2022, 11:47:35 pm

Geelong are very good at pushing the boundaries,

As were the great Hawks sides. As were the Tigs (still are, but they arent quite good enough to get away with it anymore).

All the little things - like, holding onto the footy that second longer, when you give away a free, keeping a guy down in a tackle for an extra beat, crimping the mark, holding off the footy a ball ups.... they all add to the extra pressure, but only the good teams are allowed to get away with them.

umpires arent biased, but they do get influenced by reputation. selwood can do what he likes, and never get penalised - doc fights for a ball with danger, and gets pinged 50 for it - all due to reputation.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #77 – July 18, 2022, 01:20:30 pm

Quote from: crashlander on July 17, 2022, 01:23:25 pm

Geelong mids were holding ours before they even got the ball, while theirs managed to get the ball out, somehow or another (not many of these were remotely like legal disposals, but I'm not going there).
Cripps was well held, and I mean that literally.

I really dont understand how this is allowed to keep happening. Every game that Cripps is "down" - you watch the replay, and see him being held, with 2 hands, off the footy. he will get 1 or 2 frees, but compared to the 50 times they get away with it, then the tactic works... bliscavs played well, but jeez he was allowed to just turn and face cripps and do whatever he liked at a number of stoppages. and the number of times we would gather the footy and be tackled "as we took possession", or was it just a little before....

and, did we get a single HTB all night?? cats players being spun 360 before they disposed, taking a couple of steps but apparently no prior and as mentioned above - just slinging the ball out of a tackle, all allowed. again, reputation helps - liam stocker aint umpired the same way as joel selwood

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #78 – July 18, 2022, 01:26:34 pm

our aim this year was to make the finals (lucky teams below us losing),i wouldn't worry about our forward line our biggest problem is defence ,we need to find some express players that run from hbf.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #79 – July 18, 2022, 01:53:16 pm

That 22 is a real problem for us, he even rules against us from remote distances! I suspect someone at our club must be asking a few questions today, because the difference in the umpiring stands out like a sore thumb! This season it seems worse than before. For example, Cripps can have his head ripped off and 22 won't budge, but if Cripps even dusts an opponent's hairdo 22 won't hesitate to blow the whistle. It must be infuriating for our players, it's not the free being paid it's the frees not being paid that are the problem. I thought Leigh Fisher was pretty harsh on us, but 22 takes it to a new level!
[/quote]

Ever since he has arrived on the scene, he seems to have been setting his sights on replacing Razor Ray as the most (over) officious umpire. Where Ray used to sprint in to IMPOSE himself, this guy always seems to run in and POSE himself.

I doubt that he has a bias against us but I wouldn't be surprised if he disproportionately rules against the less experienced teams because players on those teams are often less subtle in how they go about their business.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #80 – July 18, 2022, 02:25:55 pm

A couple of positives for me:

Tom De Koning hurt his shoulder but stayed on the ground and went for hitouts with his other hand until his shoulder improved. It was probably just a stinger but, earlier in his career, he would have gone off. He is really developing into a very good ruckman and having Pitto back will free him up and take some of the pressure off Charlie and Harry.

Jesse Motlop still has a way to go but he is improving with every game. The tackle he stuck deep in defence in the last quarter tells me that he is going to be a very good player for us.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #81 – July 18, 2022, 03:20:04 pm

I stopped watching after Cameron's goal in the third.

While we were harrassed at every opportunity, we panicked a bit and our ball handling was no good. It was a good lesson from Geelong in showing us what is required to get to the top - hopefully we can thank them later and return it in spades.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #82 – July 18, 2022, 03:49:12 pm

Quote from: LP on July 18, 2022, 12:52:50 pm

( btw., What did you think of Donald allegedly having Ivana pushed down the stairs? )

Couldn't give a flying fork about anything that happens in that Kent of a country.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #83 – July 18, 2022, 04:03:15 pm

Quote from: RiverRat on July 18, 2022, 01:53:16 pm

Ever since he has arrived on the scene, he seems to have been setting his sights on replacing Razor Ray as the most (over) officious umpire. Where Ray used to sprint in to IMPOSE himself, this guy always seems to run in and POSE himself.

I doubt that he has a bias against us but I wouldn't be surprised if he disproportionately rules against the less experienced teams because players on those teams are often less subtle in how they go about their business.

Yes, I'm not claiming it's a deliberate bias, although the images @kruddler‍ posted today from out at CheatsFC headquarters are a bit disconcerting.

My problem is that he will reward someone like Selwood while penalising (or not rewarding) Fisher or Hayes for what is the very same act. I've no problem rewarding Selwood for what he does, it is a skill, but why not reward Fisher or Hayes as well? The Razor Ray analogy is very appropriate, I was actually going to mention the bemused look on the face of one of 22's associates, when they made a decision from 5m away and he overruled them from 30m away! At one stage the two other umpires just looked at each other like, "WTF? Oh, he's at it again!"

It's that difference that is extremely hard to explain outside of a personal subjectivity, and it's partially explained by an unconscious bias as you describe, but I'd also assert it the high profile complaints from voices like Scott and Dimma that also have an influence on match day. So I'd say we are too good, after our TPP penalties we have become the good citizens of AFL, never complaining, never trying to push back, but perhaps we have taken that too far! I'd be shifting the spotlight back on a few of the influentials.

It's quite possible that 22 enters games with a preconceived notion about who is going to win, because I've heard other clubs with similar complaints.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #84 – July 18, 2022, 05:57:55 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on July 18, 2022, 03:49:12 pm

Couldn't give a flying fork about anything that happens in that Kent of a country.

😂

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #85 – July 19, 2022, 12:51:23 pm

I feel for Ginnivan, was getting his head ripped off on Saturday no free kick. Umpires apparently cracking down on ducking only for Selwood to get his usual soft frees a couple of hours later.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #86 – July 19, 2022, 02:25:00 pm

Re: Ginnivan. It doesnt help when you go initiating the contact and showing your technique on video.

Comparisons to Selwood are a bit wrong too. Selwood usually shrugs the tackle which actually takes some strength. Ginnivan seems to go looking for the contact under the armpit and pulling himself into it, rather than moving the other player. Not to mention he does it lurking around the goal square, and only touches it 8 times a game on average.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #87 – July 19, 2022, 02:45:07 pm

There is no comparison to Selwood, he is the king of ducking and getting away with it. There has never been a media beat up about cracking down on his ducking which has been going on for 15 years.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #88 – July 19, 2022, 02:58:08 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on July 19, 2022, 02:45:07 pm

There is no comparison to Selwood, he is the king of ducking and getting away with it. There has never been a media beat up about cracking down on his ducking which has been going on for 15 years.

Yes, I just do not understand the media hypocrisy, they look after there mates and have put this Filth kid Ginnivan to the sword.

Selwood got 3 of his 4 free kicks against us for the exact act of abnormally lowering his body, that the AFL says won't be rewarded. He had 2 more free kicks than anybody else on the field, and umpire 22 basically penalised Fisher and Hayes for doing the same thing.

It's abhorrent that one player can get away with this while all others are either penalised or unprotected, it's as bad as Dusty fending players off with a thumb to the throat and being allowed to play on!

These are "at best" examples of an unconscious bias, and some are worse than others.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #89 – July 19, 2022, 03:10:25 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on July 19, 2022, 12:51:23 pm

I feel for Ginnivan, was getting his head ripped off on Saturday no free kick. Umpires apparently cracking down on ducking only for Selwood to get his usual soft frees a couple of hours later.

Selwood forces the tacklers arms up by lifting them with his, he uses strength he rarely ducks (IMO). The prick from the Filth folds his knees the instant he is touched and goes to ground. He is a cheat.