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Topic: Ajla Tomljanović vs America (Read 1933 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #15
Margaret court has achieved things no one else has and did it in an era that contained greats such as evonne goolagong,  Billie jean king, and Martina Navratilova.  She held the title of all 4 grand slams in one calender year twice during her career.
Not really any overlap between Court and Navratilova, one was semi-retired playing only doubles when the other was just starting out.

It could be argued the off-court platitudes are as a result of on-court success, but the wokism seems to disregard this, they are either unable or unwilling to separate emotion from politics, cancel culture is exactly as the term suggests. In reality it's a form of collective rock throwing.

But fans perhaps should not justify the off-court behaviour of some, Court, Joker, Connors, etc al, using their on-court success as an excuse. The criticisms and sanctions are not related to what happens on court.

FWIW, I see the same applying to Goodes, in a case where his means(behaviour) cannot be justified away by the ends no matter how good the intentions. By some weird logic, those criticisms are somehow turned by boosters into an ad-hominem attack on Goodes, or even more weirdly support for racists or bigots, but of course that is not true either, it's just another form of extremism.

That saying about heading far enough right or left only to end up back in the middle was never truer than right at this moment in time.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #16
Margaret court has achieved things no one else has and did it in an era that contained greats such as evonne goolagong,  Billie jean king, and Martina Navratilova.  She held the title of all 4 grand slams in one calender year twice during her career.

I cannot fathom why we are devaluing her sporting achievements because she won 11 Aussie opens with qualifying statements.  

She played in an era with her peers, and achieved a lot against them.  Why the push to requalify what a GOAT is?

Because GOAT is subjective and selective. Her achievements on the tennis court were great. Tremendous. And deserving of acknowledgement and admiration. By not subscribing to GOAT is not to devalue her achievements.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17


Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #18
Yep. Only the “Everyone has a right to be a bigot” crew would back Court over Serena.

I’m trying to think of when a non-Carlton fan has acknowledged that Carlton is the GOAT … no, it’s never happened. Perhaps this is similar to the current debate: only Court’s fans would bother claiming she is the GOAT. No one else who knows anything about tennis would agree.

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #19
Yep. Only the “Everyone has a right to be a bigot” crew would back Court over Serena.
Bigotry has neither an inherent or implied vector.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #20
Of course it doesn’t - vectors have nothing to do with bigotry unless you speak corporate jargon (and I don’t).

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #21
Of course it doesn’t - vectors have nothing to do with bigotry unless you speak corporate jargon (and I don’t).
Almost nobody on here submits posts that imply bigotry is unidirectional, ................. and yet .................... !
The Force Awakens!

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #22
"bigot
[ˈbɪɡət]
NOUN
a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group:"

Hands up if you're not a bigot. ;)

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #23
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/25/serena-williams-margaret-court-grand-slam-record/

Food for thought.
To be totally frank, it is almost impossible to compare records from one era to the next.

Rules change, conditions change, even equipment.  And almost all of these changes are to the benefit of the players, eg there were no tie-breakers in Court's era, they played on less predictable surfaces, and they used racquets that were ridiculously heavy and user-unfriendly compared to the graphite models of today.

All of this means that most modern-day players can have much longer and relatively injury-free careers than 50+ years ago.  They are also far more affluent so they can employ the best support crew, coaches, personal trainers, physios etc etc. to keep them going throughout the year, as well as each tournament week.

So, our American friend how penned this article has conveniently forgotten to add that it was much tougher to simply get to the end of the tournament in the 50's and 60s.  Serena may have had to battle tougher opponents, but she had the luxury of returning to a penthouse suite in between games and getting a personal massage.  I'm betting Rod Laver and Margaret Court didn't have those same benefits......
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #24
Both side-ism at its finest. Bigots like Court are the same as bigots who don’t like Court’s attacks on the LGBTI community. Bravo!

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #25
To be totally frank, it is almost impossible to compare records from one era to the next.

Rules change, conditions change, even equipment.  And almost all of these changes are to the benefit of the players, eg there were no tie-breakers in Court's era, they played on less predictable surfaces, and they used racquets that were ridiculously heavy and user-unfriendly compared to the graphite models of today.

All of this means that most modern-day players can have much longer and relatively injury-free careers than 50+ years ago.  They are also far more affluent so they can employ the best support crew, coaches, personal trainers, physios etc etc. to keep them going throughout the year, as well as each tournament week.

So, our American friend how penned this article has conveniently forgotten to add that it was much tougher to simply get to the end of the tournament in the 50's and 60s.  Serena may have had to battle tougher opponents, but she had the luxury of returning to a penthouse suite in between games and getting a personal massage.  I'm betting Rod Laver and Margaret Court didn't have those same benefits......


There is some truth to that, but I think you've focused on one side of the equation, i.e the aspects that were tougher back then, and I think a more balanced exposition is required.

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #26
Not sure if bigotry is even worth discussing here.

It literally has nothing to do with the price of fish.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #27
Court played in a dinosaur era where it was practically a different sport. Serena 8 months pregnant would have smashed her.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #28
Margaret court has achieved things no one else has and did it in an era that contained greats such as evonne goolagong,  Billie jean king, and Martina Navratilova.  She held the title of all 4 grand slams in one calender year twice during her career.

I cannot fathom why we are devaluing her sporting achievements because she won 11 Aussie opens with qualifying statements.  

She played in an era with her peers, and achieved a lot against them.  Why the push to requalify what a GOAT is?
We all know why.
2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022 - Real Deal or more of the same?
2023 - "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss

Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America

Reply #29

There is some truth to that, but I think you've focused on one side of the equation, i.e the aspects that were tougher back then, and I think a more balanced exposition is required.
I just presented a series of facts that the American correspondent chose to ignore in her article, she spent the whole time talking about how easy it was for Court without considering the other side of that coin.    I have no doubt that there was less competition back in Court's day, and the Australian Open of the early 60's was far less prestigious and challenging than it is today. 

But just as we Bluebaggers are happy to count VFL premiership cups won near the start of the 20th century in our trophy cabinet, so too will the records always show that Court has one more Grand Slam than Serena.

And we all know Serena would have wiped Court off the court - but in the same comparison, an AFL side of today would run rings around our 1970 premiership team.  It doesn't make the heroics of that group any less impressive either.  You can only beat the best that is thrown up against you when you are playing - any other comparison is inherently flawed.

This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?