Yarran is back to his form of 2011. Not surprising considering he's played more of a role across HB this year. In the end a player with so much talent will always come good. I do however like the idea of switching him in between attack and defence.
He is much better defensively now then he was in 2011.
It's a myth mate, he was always a great tackler and used to beat his man in defence more often than not.
Ok so just so we are clear, any player who has gone backwards or plato'd is Micks fault, and any player that is playing well or even better than before is just getting back to their old 2011 form which we can thank Ratten for... Got it.
Wrong...
Those who haven't developed its because of recruitment and development but those who have developed well its because of Mick.
This game is fun
Well with Micks history in development, I'd say if Mick cant develop someone, then there's not much hope for them as a player. He has a history of getting players to play to their full potential.. Especially the young ones that he gets from early on.. But then you have nuggets like Jimmy Clement who he turned into an A grade full back coming from Freo. His history in recruitment and developing is there for all to see... Just as is the history of our recruitment and development under Ratten who was inexperienced in both. This is fun.. Yr right.
Like Heath Scotland? :-P
I dont have a problem with his Record of turning players around. I said that last week, if we are stuck with him, I hope that's at least what he can do if he is to "refresh" the list.
His record "AT CARLTON" is not showing that at this stage. But like Carrots, I will credit him for his work with Yarran and his development of guys like Lucas (who is a player issue). I can give credit where credit is due. I think his matchday stuff is way better than Ratten ever did.
But I will question other decisions he makes, his mixed messages, his changing of his nmind, him not starting till November, his choice of assistants and outdated game style, where some seem to struggle in doing.
ps. My comment was clearly tongue in cheek to show that both sides are just as guilty as each other.
I know it was TIC.. All good..
Regarding PI2C giving Mick credit for Yarrans form.. I must have missed it.. All I saw was a comment that Yarran is performing no different to how he did back in 2011 under Ratten..
Regarding Scotland, he had a midfield at the time that Scotland couldn't fit into. From what I remember Scotland asked to be moved on for more midfield opportunity.. Mick didn't want to get rid of Scotland, but agreed to the trade so he could get opportunities.
You have every right to question his and the clubs mixed messages from the past.. I did too.. I've moved on from it and am now and accepted where we are at.
The players seem happy with the game plan and actually had input into it.. So I wont question it if everyone at the club believes in it.
Yarran is back to his form of 2011. Not surprising considering he's played more of a role across HB this year. In the end a player with so much talent will always come good. I do however like the idea of switching him in between attack and defence.
He is much better defensively now then he was in 2011.
It's a myth mate, he was always a great tackler and used to beat his man in defence more often than not.
Ok so just so we are clear, any player who has gone backwards or plato'd is Micks fault, and any player that is playing well or even better than before is just getting back to their old 2011 form which we can thank Ratten for... Got it.
Wrong...
Those who haven't developed its because of recruitment and development but those who have developed well its because of Mick.
This game is fun
Well with Micks history in development, I'd say if Mick cant develop someone, then there's not much hope for them as a player. He has a history of getting players to play to their full potential.. Especially the young ones that he gets from early on.. But then you have nuggets like Jimmy Clement who he turned into an A grade full back coming from Freo. His history in recruitment and developing is there for all to see... Just as is the history of our recruitment and development under Ratten who was inexperienced in both. This is fun.. Yr right.
Yarran is back to his form of 2011. Not surprising considering he's played more of a role across HB this year. In the end a player with so much talent will always come good. I do however like the idea of switching him in between attack and defence.
He is much better defensively now then he was in 2011.
It's a myth mate, he was always a great tackler and used to beat his man in defence more often than not.
Ok so just so we are clear, any player who has gone backwards or plato'd is Micks fault, and any player that is playing well or even better than before is just getting back to their old 2011 form which we can thank Ratten for... Got it.
Hear yarran after the game say that he has so much confidence in any position he is put in now thanks to Mick. I don't think I've ever seen yarran play with so much confidence. It's great to see. It was only a week or so ago Bucks was saying how great Mick has been for his confidence and growth aswell. Looks like Mick knows how to develop these young guys which is great to see. Gee Menzel was fantastic last night. Turns the game on its head in one quarter. Gibbs was fantastic, simmo excellent and Levi is coming on very well. I actually thought white and rowe were great too. That Reiwoldt is a champion and I was very disappointed in our cheer squad starting a chant that he is a wankker. Far from it. Well don't to everitt for keeping montagna to just 20 odd possessions.
I was thinking last night that i can probably give a tick to Mick for his development of Yarran, on the other hand for the plaudits of Mick for Yarran he has destroyed the confidence of Garlett...
@ EB - Docherty is a natural replacement for Scotland. Moves like him and everything, reads the play well and can kick!
I think Yarran is a lot tougher mentally than Garlett.
He is now thats for sure, but Yarran was very similiar only a year or so ago. He sulked when he was made the sub remember and cracked it with Mick..
Yarran is back to his form of 2011. Not surprising considering he's played more of a role across HB this year. In the end a player with so much talent will always come good. I do however like the idea of switching him in between attack and defence.
Yarran is no longer quiet or timid, he is playing with supreme confidence and looks to be loving footy.. He defends excellent and never shirks it anymore. Great signs.
Hear yarran after the game say that he has so much confidence in any position he is put in now thanks to Mick. I don't think I've ever seen yarran play with so much confidence. It's great to see. It was only a week or so ago Bucks was saying how great Mick has been for his confidence and growth aswell. Looks like Mick knows how to develop these young guys which is great to see. Gee Menzel was fantastic last night. Turns the game on its head in one quarter. Gibbs was fantastic, simmo excellent and Levi is coming on very well. I actually thought white and rowe were great too. That Reiwoldt is a champion and I was very disappointed in our cheer squad starting a chant that he is a wankker. Far from it. Well don't to everitt for keeping montagna to just 20 odd possessions.
I was thinking last night that i can probably give a tick to Mick for his development of Yarran, on the other hand for the plaudits of Mick for Yarran he has destroyed the confidence of Garlett...
@ EB - Docherty is a natural replacement for Scotland. Moves like him and everything, reads the play well and can kick!
Not sure we can blame Mick for Garlett ducking his head last night... I love Jeffy, but there's certainly something not right with him. Whether its Betts going or Mick giving him a rocket and dropping him, he certainly needs to lift. He was dropped for not putting on enough forward pressure (along with Waite)... Wiley said on the Blue print, that he just barely did enough in the 2's to get a call up.. Something tells me that he has some off field issues or something that's really affecting him. He seems disinterested at times. Hopefully he gets over it and takes Yarrans approach and comes good. He is a very quiet lad thats for sure.
Hendo had a bit of a shocker, seems either out of form or injured.
Henderson had a really bad start to the season in 2011 after an injury interrupted pre-season (hip). He spent a lot of time in the VFL (only one game up to Round 12.) He came in during the second half of the year and finished the season off well.
He also had hip problems during this last pre-season which no doubt has interrupted his preparation. He's probably a player that needs that good foundation. Look to him to get better as the year goes on.
Didnt he have a second operation through the NAB challenge matches this year.. ?
Hear yarran after the game say that he has so much confidence in any position he is put in now thanks to Mick. I don't think I've ever seen yarran play with so much confidence. It's great to see. It was only a week or so ago Bucks was saying how great Mick has been for his confidence and growth aswell. Looks like Mick knows how to develop these young guys which is great to see. Gee Menzel was fantastic last night. Turns the game on its head in one quarter. Gibbs was fantastic, simmo excellent and Levi is coming on very well. I actually thought white and rowe were great too. That Reiwoldt is a champion and I was very disappointed in our cheer squad starting a chant that he is a wankker. Far from it. Well don't to everitt for keeping montagna to just 20 odd possessions.
His tank is completely worthless. Every contest has him working for air like he has a breathing problem. Don't get me wrong because I love the guy to bits but every contest of footy appears way to hard for him. He always looks way too tired, and like all his energy is spent just to take a mark. Warnock looks way more fit than Levi does. That is saying something right there. IMO.
He may look buggered because he's just busted his @ss off. There were also two chases on players where he ran them down and put them under enormous pressure.. Something you wont get from Warnock... Staggers me some of the comments on him tonight... The guy is fit... He covers a lot more ground than what the tv shows.. Sorry Manits but calling his tank worthless is way off the mark IMO. For an example of his work rate and making himself a target on repeated efforts, have a look at the replay in the 3rd 1/4 between the 15 and 11 minute mark (counting down).. He makes himself the target about 6 times... He works very hard.. Very encouraging...
Thomas, Ellard and Levi, in that order. I really worry about Thomas, because AI think he is actually getting worse with every game.
Levi.. I had him as 4th best. He was sensational from where I sat..
His kicking for goal was 1 hit the post, 1 was touched on the line from 55m out and the other slid across from a 45m out on an angle... Around the grounds he was great.
Fourth best He hardly touched the ball around the ground and, regardless of how close his misses were, his kicking for goal undoes our good work and must be frustrating for his team mates. That said, I wouldn't drop him, just get him working to emulate Jay Schultz.
Hardly touched it?? He took 7 marks and I'd suggest at a guess all were contested... He worked his @ss off around the ground and crashed packs repeatedly... Im going to take a guess here and predict that most of you who have him in the worst, maybe watched it on TV and were't at the game.. I could be wrong, but gee, there's no way I could even dream about putting him in the worst players.. At the game, he busted his guts the whole game and took some fantastic marks..
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on. Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen.. You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree... Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that? Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon.
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them. The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go..
So it's the players fault because they are crap and every poor performance is down to them, and has nothing to do with the coach, but if we win and play well he will get the credit? Just want to get this one right.
A coaches job is to build a list, teach his list a certain game style that suits the list and gives them every chance to win and also develop as players.. He then will implement it and train his players for it. His job is also to develop players to their potential. The coaches also choose match ups, tactics etc, .. But once out on the field, win lose or draw, its 99% the players and whether the players bring the effort required, right mindset and work ethic, and nail their skills under pressure to carry out the instructions and plans they have been given all week. Some weeks they can, some weeks they cant.. Some 1/4's they can, some 1/4's they cant. Good opposition wont let teams like ours dictate terms for too long during games. It takes a lot of concentration, hard work, and discipline.. We lack the ability to sustain all 3 for long enough at the moment. If we brought 100% effort every week, I still don't believe we have the list to consistently beat the top teams and challenge for a flag.. The trouble is we don't give 100% every week, so we struggle to beat the mid range teams aswell.. I hope we are now clear. Mick is known as a great motivator, so I don't believe for one second he lacks motivational skills. Bomber Thompson said when he came to Essendon, he said to Hird it was a 4-5 year job to get the list to where he wanted.. He said by the 4th year, the players should be able to coach themselves out on the ground. Its now Essendons 4th year and he says this is happening.. Now this is from Bomber Thompson.. So he has instilled a gameplan, but its now up to the players to execute it..
@ Goat
As far as how long.. I think around 60 games is fair to get a lot of things done.. But to right every wrong, I would say 3-4 years.
Thomas, Ellard and Levi, in that order. I really worry about Thomas, because AI think he is actually getting worse with every game.
Levi.. I had him as 4th best. He was sensational from where I sat..
His kicking for goal was 1 hit the post, 1 was touched on the line from 55m out and the other slid across from a 45m out on an angle... Around the grounds he was great.
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on. Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen.. You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree... Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that? Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon.
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them. The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go..
Well, after the Melbourne game and their last effort if they are still complacent they must be delusional, even delirious. There should be no doubts in any of their minds that they are just nowhere near good enough to take it easy against any opposition in the league. If they don't turn up prepared to give their absolute best then there's a very good chance they will be spanked.
Let's see if they've learned anything tonight?
With the talent (or lack there of) on our list, we need to be a team that turns up each week mentally and gives 100% effort. Especially when we are missing a couple of key players. We have no real depth yet to cover them.
I had him as 4th best. He was sensational from where I sat.. 