Hi mods. Just wondering if we can have a general thread for discussing the women's comp, rather than just a Carlton specific one ?
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/pearce-angered-by-afl-s-gimmicky-tournament-treatment-of-aflw-20180803-p4zva9.html
An article from the lovely Daisy, she who can do no wrong. :D
I agree 100% with Daisy!
AFLW should have a far greater priority over the abortion called AFLX!
But can we expect a functional and credible AFLW when the AFL doesn't even have it? :o
I don't understand why the AFL would risk stitching up 50% of their supporter base, get the girls offside and the whole sport will suffer!
There may be reasons for Kate Jenkins departure, I can see some issues arising! ;)
Why the AFL NEEDS to have this in the mens off-season is something i don't understand.
That being said, there is a lot more to the off-season than just 8 weeks of footy leading up to the mens season.
Have some games in Nov-Dec and have a extended break over xmas/new years and come back in Jan-feb if you want.
Pretty sure the VFLW has restrictions on how many AFLW listed players can play in the side at any one time. So these 'elite AFLW athletes' are getting less games than the those running around in the VFLW...possibly only half as many games. How does that work?
The AFL had such a good start with this comp in its first year. It held relatively firm in its second year and was set for expansion in 2019 and 2020....yet it appears to have lost interest in it for some reason. As 6 weeks is just bollocks.
Note to Gill, the world cup goes for years, it is the finals that goes for fout weeks.
One thing that seems obvious is that Gil’s AFL responds to supporter backlash, as happened with trialling new rules fiasco.
If there’s enough outrage at the AFL’s latest bizarre proposal, Gil will back down faster than you can say, “AFLX is a gimmick!”
Note to Gill, the world cup goes for years, it is the finals that goes for fout weeks.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, is he?
I don't see any good reason why the AFLW season cannot overlap with the AFL season, at least not in the long term. At the moment I can understand why it is run when it is. However, as Krud suggested, having the season start earlier in not impossible. Having it run into January is not a problem in itself, although some ground availability issues may arise. But making the AFLW a joke by having a truncated season doesn't help anyone.
I don't see any good reason why the AFLW season cannot overlap with the AFL season, at least not in the long term. At the moment I can understand why it is run when it is. However, as Krud suggested, having the season start earlier in not impossible. Having it run into January is not a problem in itself, although some ground availability issues may arise. But making the AFLW a joke by having a truncated season doesn't help anyone.
Ground availability shouldn't be any more difficult than what it is currently.
My uderstanding is the current season runs in tandem with the cricket season as it is. So they can manage to find grounds to play on already, surely it can't be that much harder to find 1 extra ground per round than they do currently? (to cater for the extra 2 teams).
But yes, having it at the same time as the mens certainly does solve that problem, but probably creates another as it would clash with TV times and crowds which the mens would get priority on both counts.
Just heard Daniel Harford talk on SEN, gee he's a very positive speaker.
He sounds like he is invested in the programme.
Hope all goes well for the girls this Sunday against that blue and white team.
Is Waite playing for them?
Just heard Daniel Harford talk on SEN, gee he's a very positive speaker.
He sounds like he is invested in the programme.
Hope all goes well for the girls this Sunday against that blue and white team.
Is Waite playing for them?
He's a very positive, and smart, person. A quality acquisition for us. After the debacle of last year, and the coaching dog's breakfast, we were very fortunate to get Harf into the place, he's pulled it all together which is no mean feat considering some quality gals were all but gone.
It sure has reinvigorated my interest and I will be parked in front of the teev tomorrow for the season opener. Go Mighty BlueBagger Gals!! :)
I think our and Norps season will start and end tomorrow, we are scheduled to play in 30°C at 1pm in Hobart amid heat, smoke and dust from the fires. (Fires are SW of Hobart with SW winds forecast)
Not as bad as the Dees and Dockers, they play tomorrow at 3pm in Casey when it's pegged to be 39°C.
It's a very very silly arrangement, the sort of conditions the mid-fielders might not recover from in a short season! :o
Two one point results from the first two games and what’s not to like about Collingwood losing by one point? ????
I thought that the Geelong-Collingwood game was the better spectacle and far more skilful footy was on display. Perhaps the Crows and Bulldogs haven’t kept pace with other teams.
I’m looking forward to seeing how Harford’s brand of footy goes against North, in trying conditions.
Folks
I've just moved a few posts from here that related to our match against North
Can we keep this thread for a general discussion of the Women's competition.
We'll have a match thread for Carlton games.
Two one point results from the first two games and what’s not to like about Collingwood losing by one point? ????
:(
:(
How things have changed in your life!
It’s early days but it seems that Conference A is a lot stronger than Conference B. That could lead to a lopsided GF and one of the best teams missing out.
While the AFL can’t be expected to predict team performances, the results so far show a major flaw with the conference system. If the AFLW is to grow, the competition should have each team playing all of the other teams.
I believe there is one fundamental fault with AFLW..... it was never allowed to grow organically. Women’s basketball, cricket, soccer all developed, grew and consolidated out of the limelight and only came to the forefront when it was earnt. After that we gradually took notice and genuine stars of the competition received the correct accolades. The Lauren Jackson’s, Meg Lannings and Sam Kerr’s are the real deal. AFLW was thrown into prime time and all over the front pages from Day 1 and we were sold the talents of Mo Hope, Sarah Perkins, even our own Darcy Vescio way before it was justified. In terms of Hope and Perkins, they are 1000000 miles away!! Year 3 and the standard is way better and the skills are continually improving.... but it’s still got a long long way to go. Compared to other women’s sports, it’s a recreation sport. Like our men, the women can’t represent Australia in the sport, it’s a very short season and the pay is proportional to both length of season and revenue earned.
Let’s be careful who we crown as superstars and hold off any firm
opinions for 5 or 6 years. (around about the time the boys have no 18 in the trophy cabinet!!)
I am not a supporter of the AFLW... Not because of the standard etc, but simply because I am committed elsewhere. I find that I have total commitment to the Carlton Men's AFL, my old metro club, the Oz cricket team and my kids cricket teams.... I don't have the emotional energy, time or finances to take on another sport. It's a crowded sporting landscape, good luck to the sport but I reckon for every new devotee they are probably stealing a followerer from another sport.
I am not a supporter of the AFLW... Not because of the standard etc, but simply because I am committed elsewhere. I find that I have total commitment to the Carlton Men's AFL, my old metro club, the Oz cricket team and my kids cricket teams.... I don't have the emotional energy, time or finances to take on another sport. It's a crowded sporting landscape, good luck to the sport but I reckon for every new devotee they are probably stealing a followerer from another sport.
I reckon they are attracting lots of women/girls who weren't following any sport.
And you do have your hands full :)
Felling sorry for Chiocci, the Collingwood girls are fair dinkum, but their club has only recently started to take them seriously for the first few years the AFLW and netball was only a marketing gig at Collingwood.
I'm very cynical about appointments like Graeme Allen, which was really just using the AFLW as a back door into Allen acting as a recruiter. Now the filthy Norps have him there on the low down, for a club that was dead-set broke where is Norp's money coming from and how are they attracting the top dollar recruits?
It'll be interesting to see how the AFLW deal with Harris' bump compared to the Emma Kearney sledging and vilifying players in a very unsavoury manner. If an AFL player let rip with sledges like that they'd be in hot water to say the least!
As I see it, as someone who (presently) can't stomach watching the AFLW, scoring is the/a major issue.
2 goals in a match and you win?
Joke. imho. Embarrassing to all and sundry quite frankly.
How to fix that problem - and make it more watchable to Jill & Joe Smith and their kids?
Less players for starters. Helps the congestion.
Umpires enforcing the f'n rules - reward the great tackle, pay the high tackle free quickly - and be consistent.
Maybe have a (say) 40m line from goal rather than 50m - and a goal from outside 40 gets 9 points or whatever.
Zones too, clearly.....
It will die without a lot of change.
As I see it, as someone who (presently) can't stomach watching the AFLW, scoring is the/a major issue.
2 goals in a match and you win?
Joke. imho. Embarrassing to all and sundry quite frankly.
How to fix that problem - and make it more watchable to Jill & Joe Smith and their kids?
Less players for starters. Helps the congestion.
Umpires enforcing the f'n rules - reward the great tackle, pay the high tackle free quickly - and be consistent.
Maybe have a (say) 40m line from goal rather than 50m - and a goal from outside 40 gets 9 points or whatever.
Zones too, clearly.....
It will die without a lot of change.
It's a simple scenario.
The men are elite Male athletes and even they have trouble covering the ground unless they are special.
Women simply need smaller grounds.
Removing players won't ease congestion it will only open space ahead and behind the play as players tend to get "sucked in" to the contest and the women don't have the same ability to clear congestion as males do as they don't kick it as long or handball it as far (generally).
Beyond that I'd actually opt for larger benches.
It would allow them to stay fresher for longer.
Just leave it as it is. The spectacle will improve as players and coaches learn on the job and fitness and conditioning evolves.
The umpiring is the only issue that needs urgent attention.
There 0.5s difference between men and women at the Olympic 100m, and the girls run the marathon in 2hr 15m which is not far off men at 2hr 01m.
I doubt you could even notice the difference on a football field without video analysis, unless it was a straight up footrace from FB to FF!
Probably the biggest visible issue is kicking power, but it's improving all the time. Regardless about 50% of all kicks for both men and women are wasted.
Just a sweeping generalisation…
I've seen 3 of our games this year....the last 3
The first one (against GWS) was far superior (from both sides ) to anything I saw last season.
Skills, kicking accuracy, tackling....even the odd bit of "fancy play" was all up on last year.
The last two games seemed to drift back into a bit of the scrappiness and uncertainty of previous seasons.
There could be multiple reasons for that (pressure perhaps) , but the product on display in the GWS game was well worth the watch.
There could be multiple reasons for that (pressure perhaps) , but the product on display in the GWS game was well worth the watch.
I suppose GWS is under AFL control and takes the AFL mandate to play attractive football more seriously than the other clubs.
Remembering we got the blame for playing unattractive football back at the start of last season, yet it seems that in 2019 we are no longer the alleged "common denominator of negativity", why aren't these other clubs called out in the media, is it because their CEOs and Presidents are in positions of power in the AFL and AFL media?
FWIW, I also was thinking much the same regarding game lines. I wonder if the explanation for the change in spectacle is perhaps the change in umpiring emphasis, be it deliberate or unintentional. Does the match day pattern follow a certain set of umpires?
I suppose GWS is under AFL control and takes the AFL mandate to play attractive football more seriously than the other clubs.
Remembering we got the blame for playing unattractive football back at the start of last season, yet it seems that in 2019 we are no longer the alleged "common denominator of negativity", why aren't these other clubs called out in the media, is it because their CEOs and Presidents are in positions of power in the AFL and AFL media?
FWIW, I also was thinking much the same regarding game lines. I wonder if the explanation for the change in spectacle is perhaps the change in umpiring emphasis, be it deliberate or unintentional. Does the match day pattern follow a certain set of umpires?
From what I have seen, the umpiring is consistent (in its inconsistency) across the board. They must be following an AFL directive ... or the AFLW has scoured the suburban leagues and recruited the worst umpires going around.
From what I have seen, the umpiring is consistent (in its inconsistency) across the board. They must be following an AFL directive ... or the AFLW has scoured the suburban leagues and recruited the worst umpires going around.
I'm not upset that AFLW looks more like suburban football, live suburban footy has probably been netter to watch than AFL for the last few years anyway. The thing that brings the AFLW and AFL spectacle undone is the broadcasters willingness to rip apart every contest and decision with ultra slow motion replays. At suburban live footy no slow motions are present to stop you focusing on with the next chain of play!
The problem with the AFL spectacle is more often the broadcast not the product!
There 0.5s difference between men and women at the Olympic 100m, and the girls run the marathon in 2hr 15m which is not far off men at 2hr 01m.
I doubt you could even notice the difference on a football field without video analysis, unless it was a straight up footrace from FB to FF!
Probably the biggest visible issue is kicking power, but it's improving all the time. Regardless about 50% of all kicks for both men and women are wasted.
Don't look at elite athletes from both genders in a very specific discipline regarding covering the ground for less than 15 seconds in one sprint.
Marathon runners:
https://www.verywellfit.com/what-is-a-good-time-for-running-a-marathon-2911426
In terms of average marathon times, the median marathon finishing time in 2016 for men in U.S. marathons was 4:22:07 (9:59 minutes per mile pace), according to Running USA. The median finishing time for women was 4:47:40 (10:58 minutes per mile pace). Thats a 20% variance in performance over the course of the marathon. During each Mile we are talking about 10% variance in pace.
Keeping all that in mind, AFLW is in its 3rd season. Even their most seasoned players are 3rd year in the system. The AFL players are career footballers by comparison. They have been through a junior system that has been aimed at producing an elite AFL footballer and competition for spots has been quite different when compared to females.
The result is you are comparing an elite male marathoner, vs a female marathoner who might only be going at Median pace. THAT is the difference I am thinking is going to be significant here.
So, contrasting that with this link about the fastest marathoners ever:
https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20823734/these-are-the-worlds-fastest-marathoners-and-marathon-courses/
I get it, they are relative to each others competition, but these things shouldnt be disregarded. When playing on grounds like Icon park, this is a massive variance for these girls to contend with.
Food for thought:
http://www.stpats.vic.edu.au/en/news/article/1st-xviii-match-report-2015-herald-sun-shield-fi/
St Patrick’s College 10.12 (72) d Essendon Keilor College 6.7 (43)
Names of some of the players that played that day: Daniel Rioli, Jacob Hopper
Now these guys played down at Port Melbourne as year 12's.
Is that an average score?? I don't know. I can't answer that, but compared to AFL mens, its not a big score.
Coming back to compare the mens vs womens, check out that actual statistics (to lessen bias, I will look at the stats for one round in each year):
https://www.afl.com.au/stats
AFL Mens Round 1, 2018:
Avg Kicks: 212.3
Avg Handballs: 161.2
Avg Disposals: 373.5
Avg Marks: 90
Avg Hit Outs: 38.8
Avg Frees For: 20.5
Avg Frees Against: 20.6
Avg Tackles: 64.8
Avg Goals: 11.9
Avg Behinds: 11.0
AFLW Round 1, 2018:
https://www.afl.com.au/womens/matches/stats
Avg Kicks: 126.3
Avg Handballs: 61.5
Avg Disposals: 187.9
Avg Marks: 36.5
Avg Hit Outs: 24.7
Avg Frees For: 15
Avg Frees Against: 15
Avg Tackles: 60.8
Avg Goals: 4.9
Avg Behinds: 37.8
I won't try to claim they are equal, but I won't blame the differences for the spectacle.
They should not play the same game style, yet the AFLW seems hell bent on imitating the men.
When I watch the EPLW or the girls Rugby they are quite accomplished, but the trick seems to be having an emphasis on other aspects of the game to the brute power focus of the men. For example in the EPLW they move the ball with far higher cadence and agility than the men, they play a faster style in which there is little emphasis on controlling tempo or physical contests.
Politically incorrect as this may be there is potentially a difference, the AFLW is dominated by "other political interests" while the EPLW and girls Rugby are not in that they remain more neutral. It may take a while before AFLW finds it's balance, between females wanting to be elite female sports-people in a female sport equivalent of the men, and females wanting equality to male sports-people. In some respects I think the spectacle has been hijacked by one of these agendas. Some believe the ideals can coexist, I'm not so sure well see the best of the sport if that is the case. To be elite a female sport should be tactically tailored to use the skills and abilities of females, we cannot deny the physical and psychological differences.
Of course I expect some to accuse me of misogyny or sexism for stating this belief.
Just leave it as it is. The spectacle will improve as players and coaches learn on the job and fitness and conditioning evolves.
The umpiring is the only issue that needs urgent attention.
Revolutionary!
The AFL can't help but fix the issue any way they know how/can, because thats their Modus Operandi.
I keep telling everyone that sports tactics evolve organically. The more you tinker about with the game, the harder that is to occur, because actions produce reactions.
Other sports see tactics go through ongoing refinement to get to where they are today and incorporate many different styles into one, and the teams that are most succesful are usually the ones best place to "counter punch" when plan A doesnt work.
There 0.5s difference between men and women at the Olympic 100m, and the girls run the marathon in 2hr 15m which is not far off men at 2hr 01m.
I doubt you could even notice the difference on a football field without video analysis, unless it was a straight up footrace from FB to FF!
Probably the biggest visible issue is kicking power, but it's improving all the time. Regardless about 50% of all kicks for both men and women are wasted.
re Bold....
...and in both cases they have been doing a hell of a lot more training that 3 pre-seasons worth.
Let the little 5yo girls now train their whole lives to become AFLW stars of the game of the future and THEN judge the game.
100+ years ago, the blokes weren't scoring more than a couple goals a game. Lucky we didn't can it then.
There's another variable involved here...
No matter how the women's game develops you will never have a participation rate amongst female footballers to rival that of the men.
You will always be drawing from a much smaller talent pool.
It'll be interesting long term, there isn't a bottomless pit of money and resources, as the girls inevitably achieve wage parity it has to affect the wages and resources on the mens side of the competition. At that point the expectations around performance will grow, certainly from a purely corporate perspective this in inevitable, if you want to be professional and earn professional wages you have to commit and perform like a professional. It is a head to head competition with peers about who gets the resources and the money.
At this stage there remains many professional females still want the part time thing, they want to be a full-time professional earning a professional wage, but many still want to be a mum. I'll probably get lambasted for writing that but reality is it won't be men undermining this desire, it'll be other women who are not interested in having kids and see their career success being affected by divided loyalties. There is no bigger bastard to female athletes than other female athletes! They won't hesitate in telling associates that they can be a mum when their career is done!
Women's soccer has grown into a mature sport now imo and from what I have seen of it (not a huge amount) the standard and skill levels are pretty high. Not sure yet whether footy will reach those heights (I confess to having seen a lot less of that), remains to be seen I guess. I'm not such a fan as yet mainly because I have time limits on the amount of sport I can or am prepared to watch - which is mainly AFL atm. However, any sport has to provide a highly skilled spectacle to be ultimately successful in the commercial sense these days, well at least imo.
Women's soccer has grown into a mature sport now imo and from what I have seen of it (not a huge amount) the standard and skill levels are pretty high. Not sure yet whether footy will reach those heights (I confess to having seen a lot less of that), remains to be seen I guess. I'm not such a fan as yet mainly because I have time limits on the amount of sport I can or am prepared to watch - which is mainly AFL atm. However, any sport has to provide a highly skilled spectacle to be ultimately successful in the commercial sense these days, well at least imo.
I agree Cookie2, the fan base is just another divided resource, I gather that is why the AFL has quickly moved the AFLW outside of the AFL season.
Ultimately, I want to watch good football be it men or women, preferably that involves Carlton winning. I've been surprised to find my wife interested in AFLW, she normally hates female sport especially the tennis and other non-contact efforts. But when she saw some of the head on aggression at contests in the AFLW she was won over.
One thing, I read Leigh Matthews comments about shorter quarters for AFL, I'd have no qualms in giving this a try at AFLW to increase the general intensity and urgency of play. I'd even like to see it trialled at VFL and TAC Cup level. I don't think that will take away from the height advantage tall players have late in games which I think must be retained to ensure we do not change the flavor of the game. I just think coaches and players would go harder and faster earlier with shorter periods of momentum management.
Cracking game on at the moment. Dees vs Dogs. 3/4 time, 1 point in it.
Good skills on display. Nice goal slotted from 40m out on the boundary. Set up from a nice kick inside 50 from ex Blues player Maddie Gay. Also Bianca Jakobbson (former blue from season 1) showing some nice skills and desperation, both now at the dees.
Nice, legal, shephard sat Katie Brennan on behind. She struggled back to her feet clearly shook up.
Dogs with not much to play for. Dees looking to keep their finals hopes alive.
Freo vs Kangas is at half time.
Winner takes 2nd in conference A.
Currently Freo are up 26 to 7 at home. :o
Kangas need to work our where their goals are otherwise they won't be playing finals this year.
They were absolutely favourites to win the thing early on. Biggest choke in AFLW?
Update. Dockers by 29 points halfway through the last.
Looks like we are playing them week 1, @ Ikon. ;D
Update. Dockers by 29 points halfway through the last.
Looks like we are playing them week 1, @ Ikon. ;D
Alot better than playing Adelaide!!! Freo's gone damn well but Adelaide looks a powerhouse.
Alot better than playing Adelaide!!! Freo's gone damn well but Adelaide looks a powerhouse.
We were beating them by 17 points late in the 3rd quarter in R2.
Without Harris playing, and without a couple others that have proven a class above some of the girls who got games early.
Yes, they were also without Randell who had 'pretendinitis'.
But.....much better than playing North.
We'll get Freo @ Ikon....and fingers crossed if we win, we'll get the GF @ ikon too.
Pies up by 8 points at 3-4 qtr time....
Finals sorted
Blues vs Dockers
Cats vs Crows
Winners play off in the GF in 2 weeks
Finals sorted
Blues vs Dockers
Cats vs Crows
Winners play off in the GF in 2 weeks
We play at Ikon. The other game I think is in Adelaide.
What is the Kruddler Ladies Lounge Group ?
What is the Kruddler Ladies Lounge Group ?
Its just a 'title'.
I asked to be able to moderate the ladies lounge area of the site to assist with tallying votes and keeping that branch tidy.
Its just a 'title'.
I asked to be able to moderate the ladies lounge area of the site to assist with tallying votes and keeping that branch tidy.
I see. Thanks.