Do you best, do your worst, as long as the team plays its best.
My God, what a shocker.
Coaches and players will be under the spotlight for this. It was simply unacceptable.
Something strange in the neighborhood.... ::)
We get within 4 goals of Port and Collingwood and get thumped by Brisbane...yet it was a result many predicted.
Tanking...Nope...we didn't have to tank this game we were far enough away even if we won
Curnow and Cripps down on their usual, Simmo missing...sure that has a big effect.
But it's like there is a team of individuals out there rather than a "team". individuals who are more concerned with their own performance and preservation than with the team thing.
We also have some very average inconsistent players who have all chosen to have the '"day off" at the one time.
A fans level of disappointment is dependent on their expectations.
Expect nothing of this side at the moment.
You won't be disappointed. :(
Something strange in the neighborhood.... ::)
We get within 4 goals of Port and Collingwood and get thumped by Brisbane...yet it was a result many predicted.
Tanking...Nope...we didn't have to tank this game we were far enough away without losing it.
Curnow and Cripps down on their usual Simmo missing...sure that has a big effect.
But it's like there is a team of individuals out there rather than a team, individuals more concerned with their own performance and preservation than with the team thing.
We also have some very average inconsistent players who have all chosen to have the '"day off" at the one time.
A fans level of disappointment is dependent on their expectations.
Expect nothing of this side at the moment.
You won't be disappointed. :(
Brisbane play an aggressive running style, not too much nous from Brisbane but we dont like it physical and we dont like too much running..
Something strange in the neighborhood.... ::)
We get within 4 goals of Port and Collingwood and get thumped by Brisbane...yet it was a result many predicted.
Tanking...Nope...we didn't have to tank this game we were far enough away even if we won
Curnow and Cripps down on their usual Simmo missing...sure that has a big effect.
But it's like there is a team of individuals out there rather than a team. individuals who are more concerned with their own performance and preservation than with the team thing.
We also have some very average inconsistent players who have all chosen to have the '"day off" at the one time.
A fans level of disappointment is dependent on their expectations.
Expect nothing of this side at the moment.
You won't be disappointed. :(
Certainly makes you wonder WTF is going on for sure. Our defence especially was all at sea - zoning completely broke down at times and opposition players were left with a free hand to destroy us. Surely that wasn't all down to Simmo being missing?? And we just could not capitalise on our F50 entries which were invariably and predictably to Charlie who was often being double teamed?
Note. Comments based on first three qtrs = could not bear to watch any more.
Brisbane play an aggressive running style, not too much nous from Brisbane but we dont like it physical and we dont like too much running..
We have no issue playing and in-close, hard congested game against good sides. Physical isn't the issue. Mental might be another issue. When the idiot coach decides to play a zoning, offensive game plan, something we are hopeless at, in winnable games, then he has alot to answer for. He's not the man.
Certainly makes you wonder WTF is going on for sure. Our defence especially was all at sea - zoning completely broke down at times and opposition players were left with a free hand to destroy us. Surely that wasn't all down to Simmo being missing??
No pressure from forwards and/or mids Cookie2, it's that simple and it's been that way all season. No work ethic, and it makes the defence look stupid!
Marchbank back today showed why I was so negative about him, charges off up the field, misses a 15m target, then jogs back pointing the finger at someone to pick up his opponent, but he's not alone!
Well we secured the first pick, so in that case "mission accomplished"!!! >:( >:( >:(
But watch us dither, and get sucked into the spruik. Lack of imagination and the age old recruiters bulls1t of taking the best available will result in bringing in a South Australian who will want to go home asap........
When we should get aggressive at the table and make both SA teams fight out a deal that FAVOURS US. They can have Weitering too, perfect example of falling for the "best player" mentality, sorry but the kid's heart's not in it; lost, soft, incapable.
Almost lost on this "reset", it's not a rebuild, the team which BB inherited only needed a reset apparently, that's 40 players ago by the way.
Certainly makes you wonder WTF is going on for sure. Our defence especially was all at sea - zoning completely broke down at times and opposition players were left with a free hand to destroy us. Surely that wasn't all down to Simmo being missing?? And we just could not capitalise on our F50 entries which were invariably and predictably to Charlie who was often being double teamed?
Note. Comments based on first three qtrs = could not bear to watch any more.
Re Charlie. That's what happens when you pick just one key forward, who's a kid.
Bolton outcoached again.
Hopefully we're looking for his replacement now.
Re Charlie. That's what happens when you pick just one key forward, who's a kid.
We had more inside F50 than the Lions, but they ran the ball unhindered coast to coast!
Fans will be up in arms about our defence, but that is an effect of the problems not the cause! The tell will be this week, if the club officials take an axe to the defence you know the scapegoats have been named! This problem cannot be fixed by changing the defenders!
Foxtel replays of McKay laughing in the stand, I'd just about sack him tomorrow and send a message!
It doesn't get any worse than that, if Bolton can have them playing decent football by the end of the season well and good but any more faux efforts like today and we may as well give someone else a chance.
A lack of ability and experience I can cop, the rubbish that we dished up today I can't.
Well we secured the first pick, so in that case "mission accomplished"!!! >:( >:( >:(
But watch us dither, and get sucked into the spruik. Lack of imagination and the age old recruiters bulls1t of taking the best available will result in bringing in a South Australian who will want to go home asap........
When we should get aggressive at the table and make both SA teams fight out a deal that FAVOURS US. They can have Weitering too, perfect example of falling for the "best player" mentality, sorry but the kid's heart's not in it; lost, soft, incapable.
Almost lost on this "reset", it's not a rebuild, the team which BB inherited only needed a reset apparently, that's 40 players ago by the way.
Many pundits are saying we'll trade P1 to the Crows for later picks plus a player. Apparently the Crows are desperate to get it and would be up for a deal generous in our direction. Remains to be seen.
I suspect time might be up for Phillips, too fragile, and we don't have the list to carry him as a backup to an already damaged ruckmen!
Lobbe might be a good buy if he can get himself sorted, until De Koning and McKay get themselves sorted as ruck options.
SOS, Weitering and SPS,have no idea of what role they are supposed to perform. I want to know why those 3, who started off so well, are struggling. They've all shown they have talent. As I said to someone else, if the players we drafted the last few years wore red and white I bet they'd all be going very well as most of them have talent. You can only draft good players, up to the coaching staff to develop them. Right now our coaches could turn Dusty into a dud.
Re Charlie. That's what happens when you pick just one key forward, who's a kid.
Probably. Another possible option must have thought it funny - he was having a good laugh in the crowd apparently! >:(
I suspect time might be up for Phillips, too fragile, and we don't have the list to carry him as a backup to an already damaged ruckmen!
Lobbe might be a good buy if he can get himself sorted, until De Koning and McKay get themselves sorted as ruck options.
I look forward to seeing De Koning in a year or 2. I hope we don't turn his talent to crape as well.
Phillips would be best looking at another club. He's shown he can play if he's first ruck mostly rucking on his own. Just no room for 2 rucks in most sides these days.
As a loyal supporter and member it’s gut wrenching to have to endue such a putrid insipid display against a team we should actually be ahead of yet they absolutely pump us in every level. And when I try and stay a little positive which is hard enough I’m reminded of the stupidity from our club in recently and I might say proudly declaring ‘we don’t want a priority pick’. :o
We are a joke from the top down.
I always tried to be positive during the last 15 years of crap but I thats it now. I have lost all faith we will ever be anything but a laughing stock.
Never ever thought I would say this but I am now so bloody embarrassed to follow the team i have loved for the last 45 years.
This loss has removed any doubt I had we might not be on the right track. We are a sad irrelevant organization and deserve all the sh1t we cop from the media.
Gutted.
Probably. Another possible option must have thought it funny - he was having a good laugh in the crowd apparently! >:(
Harry or Levi?
Charlie could ended up with 4 or 5 if he held those dollys in the first qtr. Glad he plays for us. Kicks 3 on his bad days.
To all the Harry Haters out there for him having the temerity to have a laugh at the footy, he is an employee!!! The days of yore are gawn people, this is the generation of Free Agency, loyalty is a redundant theory.
Certainly makes you wonder WTF is going on for sure. Our defence especially was all at sea - zoning completely broke down at times and opposition players were left with a free hand to destroy us. Surely that wasn't all down to Simmo being missing?? And we just could not capitalise on our F50 entries which were invariably and predictably to Charlie who was often being double teamed?
Note. Comments based on first three qtrs = could not bear to watch any more.
Geez, you got that far in. Youre a better man than I.
@ Shawny
The "promised land" for us certainly looks as if it could well be on a very distant planet light years away atm, that's for sure.
SOS, Weitering and SPS,have no idea of what role they are supposed to perform. I want to know why those 3, who started off so well, are struggling. They've all shown they have talent. As I said to someone else, if the players we drafted the last few years wore red and white I bet they'd all be going very well as most of them have talent. You can only draft good players, up to the coaching staff to develop them. Right now our coaches could turn Dusty into a dud.
SoJ is no Dusty, we haven't derailed his career, he's just not up to it and he's not shown the same ability as others on our list. Not even close!
Chances are good there will be a spill and SoJ will eventually get the chop with his old man resigning in disgust, which will be a pity, dead-set pity, but it's a situation of our own making! The clubs pumped up the lads tyres to leverage his surname, but he's just not that sort of player, I'm afraid if he's regularly getting a game the club is in trouble. I love SoJ's heart, his desire, his footy brain, the fact he bleeds navy blue, but the name doesn't make up for the deficits and opposition teams will keep taking full advantage of his short-comings! I think his best chance was to eventually displace someone like Kennedy, Lang or Ed in the midfield, but he won't learn those tricks playing in the back-pocket! If we chop him, will he try to extend his career elsewhere?
About the others you have a very valid point.
Phillips would be best looking at another club. He's shown he can play if he's first ruck mostly rucking on his own. Just no room for 2 rucks in most sides these days.
No club will take him on as a 1st ruck, he's too fragile!
To all the Harry Haters out there for him having the temerity to have a laugh at the footy, he is an employee!!! The days of yore are gawn people, this is the generation of Free Agency, loyalty is a redundant theory.
So why should supporters be loyal then? If a player is accepting our coin he should be with us 100% and at least try and look interested in us being successful. I might just jump on board with the team that looks to be the best chance for the flag in future, and if they start to falter jump aboard with my next choice. ::)
We signed Murphy for a further 2 years. Let that sink in people... >:D
We signed Murphy for a further 2 years. Let that sink in people... >:D
If that is all you saw from today's game best close your eyes!
You need to ask why when our captain got put down by the Lions, that is the Carlton captain got put down whoever he was, it was Hodge that picked him up! Love someone or hate them, there are lines you should never cross, and our Carlton players, our captain's team-mates, just keep crossing this line!
A lot of them are marking time, our club is just a stopover on the way somewhere else, anywhere else! Any player who is playing for the club and jumper should not accept those events!
SoJ is no Dusty, we haven't derailed his career, he's just not up to it and he's not shown the same ability as others on our list. Not even close!
Chances are good there will be a spill and SoJ will eventually get the chop with his old man resigning in disgust, which will be a pity, dead-set pity, but it's a situation of our own making! The clubs pumped up the lads tyres to leverage his surname, but he's just not that sort of player, I'm afraid if he's regularly getting a game the club is in trouble. I love SoJ's heart, his desire, his footy brain, the fact he bleeds navy blue, but the name doesn't make up for the deficits and opposition teams will keep taking full advantage of his short-comings! I think his best chance was to eventually displace someone like Kennedy, Lang or Ed in the midfield, but he won't learn those tricks playing in the back-pocket! If we chop him, will he try to extend his career elsewhere?
About the others you have a very valid point.
I wasn't comparing him to Dusty, surprised you think I did, just that he has shown quite a bit in his first two years but, like more talented ones such as Weitering and SPS, why have he gone backwards after showing alot in their first years. The only thing I said about Dusty is that we could turn him into a dud if he played for us.
I reckon if all the players we have drafted the last 3 years played in Swans colors most would be flying.
So why should supporters be loyal then? If a player is accepting our coin he should be with us 100% and at least try and look interested in us being successful. I might just jump on board with the team that looks to be the best chance for the flag in future, and if they start to falter jump aboard with my next choice. ::)
That is exactly what happens in the NFL Cookie! Thats where Free Agency comes from, say no more.....
Mate I've been a loyal supporter since 1970, I understand your grief exactly, but this game of today is all about the coach's job security, it stopped being about us, the supporters, about 15 years ago. So you may as well "jump on board" the next big thing.
We signed Murphy for a further 2 years. Let that sink in people... >:D
Who has an issue with that other than yourself.
Just in defence of Harry McKay folks
As sad as I was I remember having a few laughs with friends and family at my Mum's funeral.
Don't take a ten second grab in a three hour telecast to mean anything at all.
Just in defence of Harry McKay folks
As sad as I was I remember having a few laughs with friends and family at my Mum's funeral.
Don't take a ten second grab in a three hour telecast to mean anything at all.
Can you imagine one of the reserves laughing about that result within the vision of Leigh Matthews, Malthouse, the Scott's, Pagan, Roos or Parkin?
I realise times have changed, but seriously, what was the joke, an uncomfortable laugh, a Barrett moment!
Can you imagine one of the reserves laughing about that result within the vision of Leigh Matthews, Malthouse, the Scott's, Pagan, Roos or Parkin?
I realise times have changed, but seriously, what was the joke, an uncomfortable laugh, a Barrett moment!
We have no idea..so we shouldn't judge.
It might have been totally un-football related.
That he was caught on camera is unfortunate...but we cant possibly judge him without knowing the context.
I've been pretty miserable this afternoon but still managed a couple of laughs at different times.
We have no idea..so we shouldn't judge.
It might have been totally un-football related.
That he was caught on camera is unfortunate...but we cant possibly judge him without knowing the context.
I've been pretty miserable this afternoon but still managed a couple of laughs at different times.
I know, but it wouldn't save him under those regimes.
It's not about guilt or innocence.
Even worse for us is when you realise Foxtel had a choice to make before they broadcast that, a Barry Hall moment!
Just in defence of Harry McKay folks
As sad as I was I remember having a few laughs with friends and family at my Mum's funeral.
Don't take a ten second grab in a three hour telecast to mean anything at all.
It's football though, it's supposed to be the be all and end all of life. Smiling isn't allowed....lol!!!!!.
It's football though, it's supposed to be the be all and end all of life. Smiling isn't allowed....lol!!!!!.
I remember the disdain on this forum when a certain star player was caught laughing while walking off the field after a loss! That was someone with credits on the board!
That is exactly what happens in the NFL Cookie! Thats where Free Agency comes from, say no more.....
Mate I've been a loyal supporter since 1970, I understand your grief exactly, but this game of today is all about the coach's job security, it stopped being about us, the supporters, about 15 years ago. So you may as well "jump on board" the next big thing.
You could well be right H. I'm just a bit old fashioned I suppose - too late to change now.
From the AFL website....
INJURIES
Brisbane: Nil
Carlton: Phillips (hamstring), Weitering (calf), Marchbank (heart)
WTF does that mean...Arrhythmia ?
That is exactly what happens in the NFL Cookie! Thats where Free Agency comes from, say no more.....
There is a bit of a difference though, the NFL isn't actively pushing expansion teams, and the NFL administration border on paranoid about making the draft and trade equitable. The AFL tends to be quite the opposite, it does seem to play favourites!
Teams in the NFL don't blink at suing each other!
From the AFL website....
INJURIES
Brisbane: Nil
Carlton: Phillips (hamstring), Weitering (calf), Marchbank (heart)
WTF does that mean...Arrythmia ?
They've been hacked! ;D
Only joking!
Look at the AFL websites own headlines, "Does Attrocious equal Lukosius?"
That's the AFL publishing that headline!
Watching the match took me back to the thumping in Brisbane that ended the Pagan years.
I just don't know what to think about the club anymore. The 'hope' they have sold us members for the past 3 years is getting thinner every week.
I get we are rock bottom. We have a bunch of inexperienced draftees, some shop worn retreads and a sprinkling of veterans that are only OK at best. Two genuine A graders are the only bright spots. But to get belted by the 17th place team by 10 goals is finding rock bottom and digging further.
The biggest disappointment to me are the experienced players. The likes of Murphy, Ed Curnow, Thomas, Wright, Kruezer and Rowe, however hard they may be trying seem incapable of organising their team mates, i.e. leading. These are 10 year league level players. We were cut up time and time again because we were utterly disorganised, allowing Beams, Zorko and Hodge open space. We can blame the coaching all we like, but I cannot believe that it is a coaching issue. It is a lack of discipline and leadership on the field that allows a team to play so poorly as a team.
Just can't see myself bothering to attend any more games this year.
From the AFL website....
INJURIES
Brisbane: Nil
Carlton: Phillips (hamstring), Weitering (calf), Marchbank (heart)
WTF does that mean...Arrythmia ?
Lack of?
They've been hacked! ;D
Only joking!
I actually hope you're right.
The alternative is a bit concerning
Edit
Carlton FC
✔
@CarltonFC
UPDATE: Caleb Marchbank came off the field in the second half with a raised heartbeat. He will undergo testing this evening at hospital but is expected to be OK. The Club will provide further updates when they come to light.#AFLLionsBlues #BoundByBlue
I actually hope you're right.
The alternative is a bit concerning
Arrhythmias are not uncommon is low body fat athletes.
I can't recall the cause, but it's something to do with a lack of energy reserves that can cause a particular deficit in a required chemical during heavy exercise. If that is the cause it's not something the health of fitness staff can do anything about in advance, but it can be managed once it's known about.
Watching the match took me back to the thumping in Brisbane that ended the Pagan years.
I just don't know what to think about the club anymore. The 'hope' they have sold us members for the past 3 years is getting thinner every week.
I get we are rock bottom. We have a bunch of inexperienced draftees, some shop worn retreads and a sprinkling of veterans that are only OK at best. Two genuine A graders are the only bright spots. But to get belted by the 17th place team by 10 goals is finding rock bottom and digging further.
The biggest disappointment to me are the experienced players. The likes of Murphy, Ed Curnow, Thomas, Wright, Kruezer and Rowe, however hard they may be trying seem incapable of organising their team mates, i.e. leading. These are 10 year league level players. We were cut up time and time again because we were utterly disorganised, allowing Beams, Zorko and Hodge open space. We can blame the coaching all we like, but I cannot believe that it is a coaching issue. It is a lack of discipline and leadership on the field that allows a team to play so poorly as a team.
Just can't see myself bothering to attend any more games this year.
Unfortunately it could well be that old demon "a losing culture" setting in. If a team cannot produce a win occasionally the toll on the mental state of each player starts to wear them down. Just imagine getting nowhere whatever you may try to do?
Unfortunately it could well be that old demon "a losing culture" setting in. If a team cannot produce a win occasionally the toll on the mental state of each player starts to wear them down. Just imagine getting nowhere whatever you may try to do?
This is deliberate Cookie2, we've made deliberate changes that took us in this direction!
thank fk for the world cup is all i can say.
thank fk for the world cup is all i can say.
and most of the teams playing are showing a more physical brand of football than us
BB looked disinterested in the post match presser.
He looked like he has resigned himself to the reality or expected the result, he showed about as much emotion and passion as the playing list!
Arrhythmias are not uncommon is low body fat athletes.
I can't recall the cause, but it's something to do with a lack of energy reserves that can cause a particular deficit in a required chemical during heavy exercise. If that is the cause it's not something the health of fitness staff can do anything about in advance, but it can be managed once it's known about.
I have Atrial Fibrillation
I actually feel more uncomfortable when my heart is in normal rhythm.
But even with medication it does have a considerable effect on exercise tolerance.
...however Marchbank is relatively young so hopefully it can be managed if indeed it does prove to be an ongoing issue.
It may just be virus related...and a short term problem.
i've lost interest in footy.
I was optimistic last year we'd improve, but for what ever reason, the impact of 1 solitary win, does my head in. I find
myself watching other games more so and loathe to watch us play. Its depressing and i've almost forgotten what excitement footy brings, finals, rivalries etc
What disturbs me more is, we are in big trouble in terms of depth, experience across the whole club structure and we reject to apply for an additional 1st round draft pick.
If we're not suitable candidates, i dont know what is. WE need help
BB looked disinterested in the post match presser.
He looked like he has resigned himself to the reality or expected the result, he showed about as much emotion and passion as the playing list!
I suspect he's just trying to hold the line and get through the season...knowing that the best result for the future is an 18th place finish.
Not what we want to hear.... but unfortunately the reality in "Draft world".
BB looked disinterested in the post match presser.
He looked like he has resigned himself to the reality or expected the result, he showed about as much emotion and passion as the playing list!
Looked like he already knows his fate.
Unless there is a board spill he gets another year at least.
But next year is the make or break year for him.
There has to be a clear improvement in results.
The board has put him in this position through their rebuild philosophy.
His failure is their failure.
They can't sack him and stay in place.
i've lost interest in footy.
I was optimistic last year we'd improve, but for what ever reason, the impact of 1 solitary win, does my head in. I find
myself watching other games more so and loathe to watch us play. Its depressing and i've almost forgotten what excitement footy brings, finals, rivalries etc
What disturbs me more is, we are in big trouble in terms of depth, experience across the whole club structure and we reject to apply for an additional 1st round draft pick.
If we're not suitable candidates, i dont know what is. WE need help
Stop sooking it up. This is what got us here in the first place, that sense of doing things the easy way by tanking and quick fixes. I've said this previously, but the first time I have been actually proud of the club for the last 20 years was when this was announced. It was the first time someone at the club said, no we got ourselves into this and we'll work our way out.
Looked like he already knows his fate.
There was a difference today, not sure what to make of it!
Unless there is a board spill he gets another year at least.
But next year is the make or break year for him.
There has to be a clear improvement in results.
Agree. I think he has another year to show some real progress.
Unless there is a board spill he gets another year at least.
But next year is the make or break year for him.
There has to be a clear improvement in results.
Not sure if we can afford another year like this. Bulldogs made a change during a rebuild, remembering they were below us, played finals the next year, premiers the next. Even Ratten got us to finals 2 years after we were a total utter basket case. Coaches make a difference.
Stop sooking it up. This is what got us here in the first place, that sense of doing things the easy way by tanking and quick fixes. I've said this previously, but the first time I have been actually proud of the club for the last 20 years was when this was announced. It was the first time someone at the club said, no we got ourselves into this and we'll work our way out.
I have no problem with that, but I'm certain we won't get out of the swamp by playing nice!
Either we get disruptive, or we must accept our lot!
Stop sooking it up. This is what got us here in the first place, that sense of doing things the easy way by tanking and quick fixes. I've said this previously, but the first time I have been actually proud of the club for the last 20 years was when this was announced. It was the first time someone at the club said, no we got ourselves into this and we'll work our way out.
Truth is stranger than fiction - I can't believe I'm agreeing with you.
Stop sooking it up. This is what got us here in the first place, that sense of doing things the easy way by tanking and quick fixes. I've said this previously, but the first time I have been actually proud of the club for the last 20 years was when this was announced. It was the first time someone at the club said, no we got ourselves into this and we'll work our way out.
..and that's exactly the argument the AFL would use to deny us a pick.
It's our own draft/trade strategy that has led us to this place.
I still think we've already asked and been told "no" and been left to handle the "message" in our own way.
Something I'm finding really strange is that there seem to have been matches this year when we've selected teams to "Go for the win" and other times when we've seemed to go for the "experimentation" or "development of kids " option.
You can almost pick the games based on team selection on a Thursday night.
I never had the feeling this was a "Go for the win!" game. ???
We have no issue playing and in-close, hard congested game against good sides. Physical isn't the issue. Mental might be another issue. When the idiot coach decides to play a zoning, offensive game plan, something we are hopeless at, in winnable games, then he has alot to answer for. He's not the man.
We contested poorly and were soft IMO and we lack physicality.....playing in close is different to being physical, our blokes were pushed/shoved and as usual did little back...when its vs a team of kids and no hopers like Brisbane have its embarrassing...
We have that reputation of being easy beats when it comes to the nasty stuff and it shows with the lack of fight....Cripps excepted.....
Something I'm finding really strange is that there seem to have been matches this year when we've selected teams to "Go for the win" and other times when we've seemed to go for the "experimentation" or "development of kids " option.
You can almost pick the games based on team selection on a Thursday night.
I never had the feeling this was a "Go for the win!" game. ???
Really funny you should say that , I had a feeling that this year is some sort of experiment year, similar to your thoughts. That would confirm the MC selections at times. Almost sacrificing games etc . Does it sound to odd?
We signed Murphy for a further 2 years. Let that sink in people... >:D
We signed Polson for 2 years more too based on zero form...he wouldnt get a game in a high school team.....
The club accepts mediocrity. Just read Josh Fraser's reports of the AFL players.
The players show little signs of playing for each other. But I suppose if they all know running patterns, everything is ok.
I did see Polson do a good thing in the first qtr - persisting to get the ball and a nice pass to Phillips for a wasted attempt for a goal.
Agree. I think he has another year to show some real progress.
x3.. Think he will get another year but if its another disaster like this one then the club will act to save the Prez, CEO and Recruiting manager......
The club accepts mediocrity. Just read Josh Fraser's reports of the AFL players.
The players show little signs of playing for each other. But I suppose if they all know running patterns, everything is ok.
I did see Polson do a good thing in the first qtr - persisting to get the ball and a nice pass to Phillips for a wasted attempt for a goal.
Agree on Polson he did fight on for the ball in that instance but that was about it for the game....he just doesnt have the skill level or nous at senior level...
The big boss of football at our club, Board Member, one Christopher Judd loves to quote Charlie Munger, 'show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome'. So clearly our incentive is pick 1/achieving another wooden spoon, as we are moving to that goal/outcome with unwavering commitment. ;)
Seriously though (or was I really joking?), after qtr time we had losses too great to cover and a couple of passengers as well. We all know Marchbank is a glass man but you'd have thought he'd last a couple of weeks before breaking down again. We all know Philllips is a glass man, so no surprises there. And there are others. How come we are a destination club for the glass and chalky types?
Have we created a record for bringing blokes back from injury only for them to fall apart in their first game back?
The architects of this 'reset' should be getting very nervous.
If we finish with one win i'm guessing it'd be the worst season in our long, proud history.
Agree on Polson he did fight on for the ball in that instance but that was about it for the game....he just doesnt have the skill level or nous at senior level...
He's miles off it at the moment, it' shows how bad our list really is.
To be fair to Marchbank, he had a heart issue with an irregular heartbeat. That's a bit more than just breaking down.
If we finish with one win i'm guessing it'd be the worst season in our long, proud history.
Long, but no longer so proud.
To be fair to Marchbank, he had a heart issue with an irregular heartbeat. That's a bit more than just breaking down.
Agree...think Marchbank gets a pass today...an issue like that with his heart could be serious or career ending, reckon we can cut him some slack....
Bolton outcoached again.
Hopefully we're looking for his replacement now.
What happened to this most wondrous coaching appointment panel, that was supposed to get us the right candidate ? The first time in history we did things the right way ?
Mind you, I'd like to see Bolton get a block of matches coaching our best 22, to see how he goes. He's really having to choose some ordinary footballers at the moment - in fact, most of the season.
He's miles off it at the moment, it' shows how bad our list really is.
Actually, don't mind the actual drafting the last 3 years as we picked some talent. i want to know why the likes of Weitering, SPS and even SOS, have gone a mile backwards after showing they can play, especially the first two. We know they can play. That's a coaching issue. No good having talent if it can't be developed.
If we finish with one win i'm guessing it'd be the worst season in our long, proud history.
That would be correct
we won 2 games in 1897 and 1901
we won 3 games in 1898, 2002, 2006
Actually, don't mind the actual drafting the last 3 years as we picked some talent. i want to know why the likes of Weitering, SPS and even SOS, have gone a mile backwards after showing they can play, especially the first two. We know they can play. That's a coaching issue. No good having talent if it can't be developed.
Talent maybe but I cant cop the lack of fight and pride...we cant seem to draft players who want to bleed for the jumper...
Actually, don't mind the actual drafting the last 3 years as we picked some talent. i want to know why the likes of Weitering, SPS and even SOS, have gone a mile backwards after showing they can play, especially the first two. We know they can play. That's a coaching issue. No good having talent if it can't be developed.
Losing becomes contagious and form suffers.
I wish I had the answers but I'm at a loss, we've got an average list so I wasn't expecting miracles but we seem to lack purpose, which is hard to explain and I suspect even harder to address.
Talent maybe but I cant cop the lack of fight and pride...we cant seem to draft players who want to bleed for the jumper...
Comes back to club culture and the inability of the coach to get through to the players. I'm thinking if Sydney had drafted them all they'd be flying, full of pride playing for the jumper.
Look at the AFL websites own headlines, "Does Attrocious equal Lukosius?"
That's the AFL publishing that headline!
Here's a headline for ya':
Super Hipworth goes Ballistic Carlton get Lukosius.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Nah, can't lie. This is a poor imitation of the best sporting headline EVER that appeared in The Sun in February 2000 after second-tier Scottish club Inverness Caledonian Thistle upset hosts Celtic in the Third Round of the Scottish Cup:
Super Caley go Ballistic Celtic are Atrocious(And apparently this was pre-dated by almost 3 decades when the Liverpool Echo reported a 1970s Ian Callaghan masterclass against Queens Park Rangers thus: SUPER CALLY GOES BALLISTIC, QPR ATROCIOUS)
Comes back to club culture and the inability of the coach to get through to the players. I'm thinking if Sydney had drafted them all they'd be flying, full of pride playing for the jumper.
We have too many choir boys or players who dont care.....
To be fair to Marchbank, he had a heart issue with an irregular heartbeat. That's a bit more than just breaking down.
Awful and worrying, but bottom line is, again, he has an issue with his body and can't play.
Comes back to club culture and the inability of the coach to get through to the players. I'm thinking if Sydney had drafted them all they'd be flying, full of pride playing for the jumper.
Sharp. On the money. Or put another way, what would Longmire (or equivalent) be getting out of this group?
good night guys
best of luck. i'm done
Anyone wanting to see the coach's post match presser the current link on the clubs site is wrong, of course.
This one works, http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2018/16/bl-v-carl
BB was blaming the defence, but the defence don't make extra numbers at both ends of the ground.
Fans should go back and watch the replay to find out just how much bullsh1t that really is. You'll see repeat after repeat, over and over again, of 4 or 5 Lions players up against or 2 and 3 Blues players at both ends of the ground!
There are moments in the game when Charlie loses a contest against 2 or 3 deep in our F50, the Lions take the ball coast to coast in a chain in just seconds, and you see Jones or Weitering isolated against 3 or 4 Lions in or around our D50! It happened on multiple occasions, two of them even made the AFL's highlights!
If BB believes what he is saying then he is probably not the man for the job. If it's spin he should be better than that, it's not like he's keeping a top secret from the opposition!
Watch the highlights of some of the Lions coast to coast goals, look in the background behind the ball carrier and count the number of Carlton players trailing behind. Even when Rowe, Weitering or Jones manage to make a spoil or hold up the Lions there is no Carlton player in sight to help! Over and over again!
We have too many choir boys or players who dont care.....
It's not possible we can recruit player after player after player who has a poor attitude with little care for the club, so we have to look at why this happens within the club. Barring a patch with Ratten this has happened since 2002.
It's not possible we can recruit player after player after player who has a poor attitude with little care for the club, so we have to look at why this happens within the club. Barring a patch with Ratten this has happened since 2002.
What was Palmer's culture tweet all about?
Its time to go Rowe, Wright, Graeme, , Lamb they are just not good enough and no matter how long we wait they never will be, and holding on by the skin of there foreskin is Jones, Thomas Phillips. Some of the basic mistakes the so called senior players make are embarrassing. how can anyone rubbish the kids when the senior players are making as many or more mistakes. Our older players should be leading the kids in every game this year that we have been embarrassed in it is the senior players that have gone missing the kids might stuff up but they keep trying. Rowe and Graeme should never wear the blue again they have served the club to the best of there ability but there ability is just not up to the standard required for AFL level.Put better players around the kids and don't expect them to do it all and they will be better.
Like it or not at least its my opinion
Don't agree about Rowe, we are now doing to him what we did to Weitering, and Rowe's suffering the same fate!
I thought Thomas was one of our better players today.
It was interesting earlier in the week, I heard a coach from one of the top or improving clubs, I cannot recall which one. A spud journo asked him if a certain player would go to another and the coach said something like, "We don't put players on other players, our players play in their positions!"
But we send the kids all over the shop because it's good for their development!
What was Palmer's culture tweet all about?
I was thinking the same.
When rowe cannot kick the ball without kicking it 5 meters to the oposision what example does he set when he drops easy marks and fumbles under pressure it just is not good enough for a senior player he should be setting a better example
When rowe cannot kick the ball without kicking it 5 meters to the oposision what example does he set when he drops easy marks and fumbles under pressure it just is not good enough for a senior player he should be setting a better example
Jones and Marchbank did the very same, I was watching TV and listening to radio when Jones fecked up and the radio blamed Weitering!
There was one incident today, it might have been Rowe or Jones who took an intercept mark and went to play on past a team-mate, the team-mate who I won't reference because I am not sure who it was, let an opponent run past unhindered to pressure the kicker which resulted in a turnover. Just a simple arm or a bump would have seen Rowe or Jones free to run off! The commentators, spuds as they are, slammed Rowe or Jones for the turnover and made no mention of their team-mate the spectator! That is the sort of crap our defence has to put up with!
Nthmond always shepherd for a team-mate, Carlton hardly ever!
I was thinking the same.
His tweet...
“Everyone talks about draft picks and developing youth, but no-one talks about culture.”
People were too ready to dismiss it as a disgruntled employee but he probably has no reason to tweet something like that unless it was right.
Don't agree about Rowe, we are now doing to him what we did to Weitering, and Rowe's suffering the same fate!
I thought Thomas was one of our better players today.
Rowe is a very average footballer in my opinion, but he's only one of a long line of average footballers who have played more than their fair share of games for the CFC over the last two decades.
I agree about Thomas today, I thought he at least tried and didn't drop his head.
Jones and Marchbank did the very same, I was watching TV and listening to radio when Jones fecked up and the radio blamed Weitering!
There was one incident today, it might have been Rowe or Jones who took an intercept mark and went to play on past a team-mate, the team-mate who I won't reference because I am not sure who it was, let an opponent run past unhindered to pressure the kicker which resulted in a turnover. Just a simple arm or a bump would have seen Rowe or Jones free to run off! That is the sort of crap our defence has to put up with!
Nthmond always shepherd for a team-mate, Carlton hardly ever!
Unfortunately they're Firstmond these days because they do those thing they never used to do.
Neither the Jones or rowe turnover was under any sort of pressure Jones was just a scrubber kick and Rowes was just a crap decision both stuffed up as bad as each other but in my opinion Rowe has passed hes used by date ,dont think this is a personal attack on rowe I admire the man for what he has gone through to play at the top level and I would be the first one to shake hes hand and say thanks for giving your all to mine and your football club but it is time
Something I'm finding really strange is that there seem to have been matches this year when we've selected teams to "Go for the win" and other times when we've seemed to go for the "experimentation" or "development of kids " option.
You can almost pick the games based on team selection on a Thursday night.
I never had the feeling this was a "Go for the win!" game. ???
Reading past posts Lods, there's plenty on here with the same view.
Once the team is announced many folk have questioned MC decisions.
So I don't think your view is strange at all. Combine that with the injuries and what appears to be some strange injury management, and it is experimental. By default rather than design.
Neither the Jones or rowe turnover was under any sort of pressure Jones was just a scrubber kick and Rowes was just a crap decision both stuffed up as bad as each other but in my opinion Rowe has passed hes used by date ,dont think this is a personal attack on rowe I admire the man for what he has gone through to play at the top level and I would be the first one to shake hes hand and say thanks for giving your all to mine and your football club but it is time
I wasn't making an excuse for the other incidents, or defending unpressurised turnovers of which there were many, but it's the effect our teams crap work ethic and culture has in building pressure on each other!
I've been arguing for a long time, our team plays with no sacrifice, it feels like they are all too busy climbing to the top of a drowning pile of team-mates!
Another good example of that today was Murphy getting slammed, .................. and Hodge picking him up! FMD, Hodge felt sorry for him, and Hodge is a dead-set white line fever kent!
Neither the Jones or rowe turnover was under any sort of pressure Jones was just a scrubber kick and Rowes was just a crap decision both stuffed up as bad as each other but in my opinion Rowe has passed hes used by date ,dont think this is a personal attack on rowe I admire the man for what he has gone through to play at the top level and I would be the first one to shake hes hand and say thanks for giving your all to mine and your football club but it is time
I agree Slugger and I agree that the others you named aren't good enough either, but seriously mate there is just nothing in the VFL.
Something I'm finding really strange is that there seem to have been matches this year when we've selected teams to "Go for the win" and other times when we've seemed to go for the "experimentation" or "development of kids " option.
You can almost pick the games based on team selection on a Thursday night.
I never had the feeling this was a "Go for the win!" game. ???
Skillful tanking.
Some fans slam the club for re-signing Murphy, Murphy has signed up for more of this!
Murphy was far from our worst today!
We should be nominating him for a Nobel Prize, he's sacrificed more than Mother Teresa!
Let's get this straight, so it isn't glossed over, Murphy signed up for more of this!
99.999% of people would have cut and run!
No wonder Hodge picked him up! :o
Neither the Jones or rowe turnover was under any sort of pressure Jones was just a scrubber kick and Rowes was just a crap decision both stuffed up as bad as each other but in my opinion Rowe has passed hes used by date ,dont think this is a personal attack on rowe I admire the man for what he has gone through to play at the top level and I would be the first one to shake hes hand and say thanks for giving your all to mine and your football club but it is time
Yes, it's times Weitering and Marchbank, when fit, take the main defensive roles. Let them know their roles and play them. Weitering looks totally lost as to his role.
While I don't like to use VFL form the day I saw Weitering return through there I have never seen an AFL player dominate at that level so much ever. He was a general, al leader, took total control of the backline, knew his role, played it to perfection, read the play beautifully and used it well finishing with 17 marks. in the AFL we play 4 key defenders, so Weitering is not playing the KP role, seems confused, lost and plays accordingly. We saw alot of that in is first year. Even 1st game in his 2nd year he went forward and really smacked Rance. Problem we left him in that unfamiliar role and it affected him. It's time now to put faith in these young blokes and let them play the role they were recruited for at both ends of the ground, and even in the midfield. give some of the 2nd and 3rd year kids responsibility now and see what happens, could be surprised.
Bolton can answer as to why Weitering has gone so far backwards.
Some fans slam the club for re-signing Murphy, Murphy has signed up for more of this!
Murphy was far from our worst today!
We should be nominating him for a Nobel Prize, he's sacrificed more than Mother Teresa!
Let's get this straight, so it isn't glossed over, Murphy signed up for more of this!
99.999% of people would have cut and run!
No wonder Hodge picked him up! :o
I agree!
His tweet...
“Everyone talks about draft picks and developing youth, but no-one talks about culture.”
People were too ready to dismiss it as a disgruntled employee but he probably has no reason to tweet something like that unless it was right.
I'd be inclined to agree. Bolton doesn't seem like a divisive, conniving type. He seems like a fairly decent, honest type, not the sort who would corrupt or derail culture. The fact that all 4 of our teams are struggling means it's a club wide issue IMO. If I was a betting man, and the club's culture is indeed rotten, I'd be looking at someone(s) more senior than him.
Problem we left him in that unfamiliar role and it affected him.
It's good for them Laj! ;)
Do you know which coach made that "Our players play in positions not on opponents" comment during the week?
Somebody please get that grab and send it to our MC!
Just re Harry laughing in the crowd.
Did anyone see it?
I did. I first noticed him when someone was going for a goal, he had on his CFC polo shirt on. He seemed to be sitting with a group.
The next time I noticed him is when he was laughing. The camera went to him and to me, it looked like an older woman (his aunt? Mum?) said to him you’re on camera and he looked a bit embarrassed and laughed.
That is it. He wasn’t laughing at the score, the play, our players - he merely looked to be laughing in embarrassment of being spotted on tv and the big screen and the people he was with pointed it out.
He’s 19. He’s allowed to laugh with his friends and family.
And fck Palmer and his stupid tweet. I don’t see him
Playing for another club now. Nor doing anything for CFC when he was with us.
What we seem to lack is players who have a desire to compete 100% of the time. Whose fault that is, who knows? But I’m sick of it.
I'd be inclined to agree. Bolton doesn't seem like a divisive, conniving type. He seems like a fairly decent, honest type, not the sort who would corrupt or derail culture. The fact that all 4 of our teams are struggling means it's a club wide issue IMO. If I was a betting man, and the club's culture is indeed rotten, I'd be looking at someone(s) more senior than him.
Should I really be hearing "The Godfather Waltz" as I read that post!
I'm not sick in the head am I, please treat me kindly and speak softly!
Just re Harry laughing in the crowd.
Did anyone see it?
I did. I first noticed him when someone was going for a goal, he had on his CFC polo shirt on. He seemed to be sitting with a group.
The next time I noticed him is when he was laughing. The camera went to him and to me, it looked like an older woman (his aunt? Mum?) said to him you’re on camera and he looked a bit embarrassed and laughed.
That is it. He wasn’t laughing at the score, the play, our players - he merely looked to be laughing in embarrassment of being spotted on tv and the big screen and the people he was with pointed it out.
He’s 19. He’s allowed to laugh with his friends and family.
And fck Palmer and his stupid tweet. I don’t see him
Playing for another club now. Nor doing anything for CFC when he was with us.
................
Fair points MickyO. And Palmer retired due to injuries after a stint in the WAFL.
I'd be inclined to agree. Bolton doesn't seem like a divisive, conniving type. He seems like a fairly decent, honest type, not the sort who would corrupt or derail culture. The fact that all 4 of our teams are struggling means it's a club wide issue IMO. If I was a betting man, and the club's culture is indeed rotten, I'd be looking at someone(s) more senior than him.
I think that the club still suffers from the "we don't rebuild at Carlton" arrogance and entitlement of the Elliott days, it's devilishly hard to shake something when it's so deeply ingrained.
I'd be inclined to agree. Bolton doesn't seem like a divisive, conniving type. He seems like a fairly decent, honest type, not the sort who would corrupt or derail culture. The fact that all 4 of our teams are struggling means it's a club wide issue IMO. If I was a betting man, and the club's culture is indeed rotten, I'd be looking at someone(s) more senior than him.
Something is clearly crook in Tootgarook. Are there deeper than thought divisions in the Board? Does everyone jump to what SOS wants and it's creating probs? Whatever it is, the entire club is either stinking it up or in deep denial... never, ever doubt the power of denial.
Should I really be hearing "The Godfather Waltz" as I read that post!
I'm not sick in the head am I, please treat me kindly and speak softly!
You'd be surprised how many around the place think sacking Bolton will solve the club's problems. Extreme myopia.
You'd be surprised how many around the place think sacking Bolton will solve the club's problems. Extreme myopia.
I'm not sure that'll fix anything, but I'm quickly losing faith in him being the man for the job as well! ;)
There is just no way, when you are 40 points down with injuries on the bench, that a opposition team should have extra numbers at both ends of the ground! We are burning the candle at both ends, BB is supposed to be the one putting out the fire!
Are we scared to make a match look ugly, who decision is that, has someone dictated to teh MC the way we are to setup and play, could it really be the coach? personally, I think any AFL coach would probably take a 1pt to Nil win every day of the week!
I think that the club still suffers from the "we don't rebuild at Carlton" arrogance and entitlement of the Elliott days, it's devilishly hard to shake something when it's so deeply ingrained.
It's quite possible that the rebuild is really just scratching the surface. Maybe deep down in the guts, the club isn't really doing the hard yards, because they've never really had to. Player development is a big tell for me. We've never really had to do it, and we still may not be doing it. Certainly looks that way.
You'd be surprised how many around the place think sacking Bolton will solve the club's problems. Extreme myopia.
What do you think keeping him will do. Sacking him might improve things, not have us go backwards. It'd be a good start.
Can give you recent examples of changing the coach. Bulldogs, worse than us in 2014, next year change to Beveridge, finalists and premiers. Even Ratts took us from the pits of absolute crape to finals within two years. Hinkley took Port from the absolute pits of crape under Primus to a Preliminary Final the next year. Just some examples of success, or at least improvement.
I'm not sure that'll fix anything, but I'm quickly losing faith in him being the man for the job as well! ;)
There is just no way, when you are 40 points down with injuries on the bench, that a opposition team should have extra numbers at both ends of the ground! We are burning the candle at both ends, BB is supposed to be the one putting out the fire!
Are we scared to make a match look ugly, who decision is that, has someone dictated to teh MC the way we are to setup and play, could it really be the coach? personally, I think any AFL coach would probably take a 1pt to Nil win every day of the week!
I'll reserve judgment until Bolton has a proper starting 22 to work with, assuming he lasts that long.
It's quite possible that the rebuild is really just scratching the surface. Maybe deep down in the guts, the club isn't really doing the hard yards, because they've never really had to. Player development is a big tell for me. We've never really had to do it, and we still may not be doing it. Certainly looks that way.
Aaah, to steal a Keatingism, the rebuild we had to have!
I suppose that is why our club's top end is clearly a tad Liberal, a case of Elliotitus!
I'll reserve judgment until Bolton has a proper starting 22 to work with, assuming he lasts that long.
Fair enough.
Is it valid to evaluate a coach who has his back against the wall, is dealing with that part of a coaches skill set?
What do you think keeping him will do. Sacking him might improve things, not have us go backwards. It'd be a good start.
Can give you recent examples of changing the coach. Bulldogs, worse than us in 2014, next year change to Beveridge, finalists and premiers. Even Ratts took us from the pits of absolute crape to finals within two years. Hinkley took Port from the absolute pits of crape under Primus to a Preliminary Final the next year. Just some examples of success, or at least improvement.
I'm thinking of clubs like Geelong (Thompson), Pies (Buckley) and Richmond (Hardwick), who figured out if their coach was the right person for the job, and then stuck with him through the tough times, and gave him all the support he needed.
I don't know if Bolton is the right man for the job. But he doesn't have much to work with.
I'm thinking of clubs like Geelong (Thompson), Pies (Buckley) and Richmond (Hardwick), who figured out if their coach was the right person for the job, and then stuck with him through the tough times, and gave him all the support he needed.
I don't know if Bolton is the right man for the job. But he doesn't have much to work with.
Are those examples valid, were they in the same situation, or did they have the actual talent that was being wasted, do we actually have the talent?
Thompson had some talent, as well as Dank and The Weapon but psst, psst! You must not mention that!
Buckley, the jury is out!
Hardwick had an epiphany watching Frozen, and Let it Go! But credit when credit is due, he had to sack a bunch of controlling megalomaniacs to move forward!
It's quite possible that the rebuild is really just scratching the surface. Maybe deep down in the guts, the club isn't really doing the hard yards, because they've never really had to. Player development is a big tell for me. We've never really had to do it, and we still may not be doing it. Certainly looks that way.
We spent the first decade of the draft telling the world that it was a restraint of trade that wouldn't stand up in court, we didn't put any time or resources into it so we never became proficient at it.
We had the same attitude to the salary cap, that it didn't apply to us, and that ended in tears.
It's only in the last couple of years that we've finally realised that our way of doing things no longer worked, but by then we were so far behind the eight ball that what other clubs had done to get off the bottom wouldn't work for us.
So we decided on a ground up rebuild, but we'd never done it before and we are having all sorts of problems getting it right.
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.
So we decided on a ground up rebuild, but we'd never done it before and we are having all sorts of problems getting it right.
I think many of us get that B4L, but it doesn't explain the lack of passion or sacrifice we see on the field, or the lack of structure!
I'm thinking of clubs like Geelong (Thompson), Pies (Buckley) and Richmond (Hardwick), who figured out if their coach was the right person for the job, and then stuck with him through the tough times, and gave him all the support he needed.
I don't know if Bolton is the right man for the job. But he doesn't have much to work with.
He's had good draftees and sent a few backwards. That excuse works if we finished on 6 wins, even 5, not ONE. We won 7 and 6 games last year and led 7 times in the last qtr last year and lost. Now one win. Some players are at the stage of stepping up to cover for losses to an extent.
They were finals like sides. Geelong and Richmond had been regular finalists before a down year. they were always fighting back regardless. Much different to winning ONE game in a year.
Collingwood has one win against a side in the 8 all year and that was Melbourne. Lost when they've played anyone any good. no side has has a draw open up and be so easy. they still have Richmond, Port, Sydney, West Coast etc to play yet.
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.
There's alot in that.
Are those examples valid, were they in the same situation, or did they have the actual talent that was being wasted, do we actually have the talent?
Thompson had some talent, as well as Dank and The Weapon but psst, psst! You must not mention that!
Buckley, the jury is out!
Hardwick had an epiphany watching Frozen, and Let it Go! But credit when credit is due, he had to sack a bunch of controlling megalomaniacs to move forward!
If we don't have the talent, why sack the coach ? Won't the next coach have the same problems ? Since 2000, we've had Parkin, Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Barker and Bolton. That must be close to an AFL/VFL record, even if you take Barker out. And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.
Why the feck hasn't the club let Jones create his chaos inside F50, instead of bombing the ball long onto Charlie Curnow's head predictably time after time after time?
Put him on the wing, or even the ruck, most of his good football in the VFL before his revival last season came as a result of playing in the ruck under Fraser's tutor-ledge!
We spent the first decade of the draft telling the world that it was a restraint of trade that wouldn't stand up in court, we didn't put any time or resources into it so we never became proficient at it.
We had the same attitude to the salary cap, that it didn't apply to us, and that ended in tears.
It's only in the last couple of years that we've finally realised that our way of doing things no longer worked, but by then we were so far behind the eight ball that what other clubs had done to get off the bottom wouldn't work for us.
So we decided on a ground up rebuild, but we'd never done it before and we are having all sorts of problems getting it right.
As far as summaries go, that's not bad.
I'd happily trade Jones for a half decent midfielder, there's certainly merit in that
Why the feck hasn't the club let Jones create his chaos inside F50, instead of bombing the ball long onto Charlie Curnow's head predictably time after time after time?
Put him on the wing, or even the ruck, most of his good football in the VFL before his revival last season came as a result of playing in the ruck under Fraser's tutor-ledge!
Yes, that was the case. I enjoyed watching him run around the ground in the ruck taking 1000 marks. Scared the living crap out of the opposition physically. Not only that he become a much better forward too when he went there. These are thing Bolton should be looking at. He's too scared to change. jones defensive role should be Weitering's. He'd play alot better then.
And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.
Like I said, I don't know what the answer is, but I can see big problems on match day that are not explained by the talent, and I'm not sure those comparisons to other clubs are valid because none of the coaches were in this rebuild situation as a result of their own clubs doing!
Have you watched a Nthmond game in which you can credit the win on the coaches moves? I can recall coaches like Clarkson, Matthews, Roos and Longmire doing stuff that won them matches, but Dimma? Has there ever been a game that has had everyone talking post match about that Dimma inspired move that won Nthmond the game?
Who takes the credit for Nthmond, Dimma or ...........?
Who takes he blame for Carlton, Bolton or .................. ?
Like I said, I don't know what the answer is, but I can see big problems on match day that are not explained by the talent, and I'm not sure those comparisons are valid because none of the coaches were in this rebuild situation as a result of their own clubs doing!
Have you watched a Nthmond game in which you can credit the win on the coaches moves? I can recall coaches like Clarkson, Matthews, Roos and Longmire doing stuff that won them matches, but Dimma? Has there ever been a game that has had everyone talking post match about that Dimma inspired move that won Nthmond the game?
Who takes the credit for Nthmond, Dimma or ...........?
I guess the Martin to Full Forward was his signature move but now he has Caddy down there he doesnt do it as often....
Skillful tanking.
Except we don't have to tank...with our poor percentage we were a clear two games behind everyone else and remain so.
If we don't have the talent, why sack the coach ? Won't the next coach have the same problems ? Since 2000, we've had Parkin, Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Barker and Bolton. That must be close to an AFL/VFL record, even if you take Barker out. And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.
We continue to pick the wrong coaches. Brittain, who had never played the game, took us from PF to the spoon in two years, we took Pagan and Malthouse on reputation as hopeful messiahs, old coaches way past their best, game had passed them by, and Bolton, the other extreme, young coach who, like Brittain had never played AFL, never a great idea with a zero success rate with Victorian clubs, who's not up to the task of a big rebuild.
The one that did improve us against the odds was Ratten and we sacked him with an 11-10 record just to show what a decent coach can do. We'd kill for that. He took us from the pits of crape to finalists in two years with a pretty average side hampered by poor recruiting. Cream at the top, crape at the bottom.
No, a good coach will improve things. Beveridge being a good example. Dogs were below us when he took over and they were premiers within two years. We are going backwards at a million miles an hour, can't go on like this.
If we don't have the talent, why sack the coach ? Won't the next coach have the same problems ? Since 2000, we've had Parkin, Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Barker and Bolton. That must be close to an AFL/VFL record, even if you take Barker out. And look where we are. And yet people think we should sack Bolton.
We have a list full of talent that is under performing.
Individuals not giving their best in a system that doesn't allow them to. We consistently set up in the wrong places around the ground, repeatedly watch the opposition exploit the same defensive failings in our tactics, move the ball slowly rather than take the game or run together in offence and fail to offer anything resembling pressure around the ground.
The zone defence doesn't work and we keep making baffling player selections. We all see it, the commentators see it and it appears that the players know it. The only people not seeing it are the match committe, Bolton and the coaching panel.
Rather than clear out the list (again) and try the same deficient coaches with a new group I'd rather see the same players given a new game plan, coaching group and development plan (and maybe medical support so they aren't playing injured)
I guess the Martin to Full Forward was his signature move but now he has Caddy down there he doesnt do it as often....
And it took a skilful coach to work that one out, would Dusty to anywhere be a tactical winner!
Did Ratten get credit for sending Judd anywhere on the field?
Our current problems are much much bigger, and while some answers might be obvious they are clearly much harder to implement!
But I worry when Leigh Matthews implies we are a rabble that cannot even do the basics like handball or kick!
And it took a skilful coach to work that one out, would Dusty to anywhere be a tactical winner!
Did Ratten get credit for sending Judd anywhere on the field?
Our current problems are much much bigger, and while some answers might be obvious they are clearly much harder to implement!
But I worry when Leigh Matthews implies we are a rabble that cannot even do the basics like handball or kick!
When we recruited them, the recent ones, there was a focus on having those skills. What happens when they get to Carlton?
When we recruited them, the recent ones, there was a focus on having those skills. What happens when they get to Carlton?
I don't know, it's something EB1 and myself have been on about for a long time, player development, but I can't say it's all about BB but the buck does stop with him!
There is something sick at our club, it seems to be collapsing, termites!
I have doubt about BB, but I have even greater doubts about the club having his back!
I think many of us get that B4L, but it doesn't explain the lack of passion or sacrifice we see on the field, or the lack of structure!
There was plenty of passion against Collingwood and Port, and what looked like a complete lack of it against Freo and again todsy.
I don't think that it's a lack of passion or spirit, I think it's that we are still putting together a team and there's a basic lack of cohesion and belief.
Whether we'll get there in the end or whether Bolton is the right man for the job I honestly have no idea, but I do know that no coach could win many games with the players he has at his disposal.
There are simply too many hacks and B graders on our list, it's the weakest Carlton team I've ever seen.
There are simply too many hacks and B graders on our list, it's the weakest Carlton team I've ever seen.
But BB and SOS have been in charge of a massive rebuild that turned over more the 40 players?
But BB and SOS have been in charge of a massive rebuild that turned over more the 40 players?
But they were coming from miles back, our recruiting over the past 15 years has been absolutely woeful and by far the worst in the AFL.
How did that Hughes peanut keep his job for so long with his record?
That alone tells you that something was very wrong at the CFC.
But BB and SOS have been in charge of a massive rebuild that turned over more the 40 players?
I thought it was only a reset?? When have they ever owned up to this being a rebuild???
But they were coming from miles back, our recruiting over the past 15 years has been absolutely woeful and by far the worst in the AFL.
How did that Hughes peanut keep his job for so long with his record?
That alone tells you that something was very wrong at the CFC.
There is an excellent question!
Well I think I've caught most of the teev commentators summary of our effort today... summarised - insipid, no excuses accepted by any of the better ex players/commentators.
What happened to this most wondrous coaching appointment panel, that was supposed to get us the right candidate ? The first time in history we did things the right way ?
Mind you, I'd like to see Bolton get a block of matches coaching our best 22, to see how he goes. He's really having to choose some ordinary footballers at the moment - in fact, most of the season.
What a bunch of horse sh1t!
Today's result had little if anything to do with who was available. It was all to do with a lack of effort, a lack of heart and a bunch of entitled 20 something year old kids who have been given everything and aren't prepared to try their guts' out for a win.
There were maybe 3 or 4 blokes wearing navy who should have walked off the field in that guernsey.. The rest should have left it in the centre square.
I am disgusted by the ream. I proudly support the Carlton football club, but at the moment there is no pride in watching a team that in my opinion don't represent the club. There is no effort. Even the second best player in the side in P Cripps, touted as captain material can't show enough decency to run both ways on the field... He is one of about 16 or 18 out there today.
I was onboard with this Bolton rebuild/reset idea, but if can't even instill enough in these boys to make them want to play with pride then he isn't the right person to be leading a side full of young men learning the game.
Anyone wanting to see the coach's post match presser the current link on the clubs site is wrong, of course.
This one works, http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2018/16/bl-v-carl
BB was blaming the defence, but the defence don't make extra numbers at both ends of the ground.
Fans should go back and watch the replay to find out just how much bullsh1t that really is. You'll see repeat after repeat, over and over again, of 4 or 5 Lions players up against or 2 and 3 Blues players at both ends of the ground!
There are moments in the game when Charlie loses a contest against 2 or 3 deep in our F50, the Lions take the ball coast to coast in a chain in just seconds, and you see Jones or Weitering isolated against 3 or 4 Lions in or around our D50! It happened on multiple occasions, two of them even made the AFL's highlights!
If BB believes what he is saying then he is probably not the man for the job. If it's spin he should be better than that, it's not like he's keeping a top secret from the opposition!
Watch the highlights of some of the Lions coast to coast goals, look in the background behind the ball carrier and count the number of Carlton players trailing behind. Even when Rowe, Weitering or Jones manage to make a spoil or hold up the Lions there is no Carlton player in sight to help! Over and over again!
At least twice or three times, there was 6 uncontested posessions from end to end for Brisbane, resulting in goals, and once where there was a gettable set shot for behind.
Who has an issue with that other than yourself.
You're obviously pleased with his output. I suppose some are easier pleased than others. But hey, I'm not here to judge...
We have a list full of talent that is under performing.
Individuals not giving their best in a system that doesn't allow them to. We consistently set up in the wrong places around the ground, repeatedly watch the opposition exploit the same defensive failings in our tactics, move the ball slowly rather than take the game or run together in offence and fail to offer anything resembling pressure around the ground.
The zone defence doesn't work and we keep making baffling player selections. We all see it, the commentators see it and it appears that the players know it. The only people not seeing it are the match committe, Bolton and the coaching panel.
Rather than clear out the list (again) and try the same deficient coaches with a new group I'd rather see the same players given a new game plan, coaching group and development plan (and maybe medical support so they aren't playing injured)
I’m with you Barbs, all of your post makes sense to me, so hard to stick fat with the status quo when we are going out backwards.....
Bolton doesn't react to obvious field changes required during the course of a game, far too soft on taking the gamble which means leniency on poor efforts and self defence on the assumption that we're a "young side", assuming he'll escape appropriate scrutiny.
He shouldn't and neither should Silvagni (to some degree at least). I stayed well away from posting yesterday as I "knew" we'd be flogged and the result would elicit all these responses.
Everyone's understandably angry and I've not seen a single post that doesn't have some merit in the argument. Shows tolerance in the extreme
Other young teams abound with pride in what they do individually or as a group
We are so far behind on that issue, it points to lack of authority, self respect, values and sense of entitlement
What we do from hereon in will determine the long term future of the club
We seem to have too may players who for too long in games run around not knowing what they should be doing and failing to execute some of the key basics of the game. Key question, is this because they are cr@p players or are they totally confused as to their roles, or perhaps a combination of those two things? I'm certainly perplexed!
What a bunch of horse sh1t!
Today's result had little if anything to do with who was available. It was all to do with a lack of effort, a lack of heart and a bunch of entitled 20 something year old kids who have been given everything and aren't prepared to try their guts' out for a win.
There were maybe 3 or 4 blokes wearing navy who should have walked off the field in that guernsey.. The rest should have left it in the centre square.
I am disgusted by the ream. I proudly support the Carlton football club, but at the moment there is no pride in watching a team that in my opinion don't represent the club. There is no effort. Even the second best player in the side in P Cripps, touted as captain material can't show enough decency to run both ways on the field... He is one of about 16 or 18 out there today.
I was onboard with this Bolton rebuild/reset idea, but if can't even instill enough in these boys to make them want to play with pride then he isn't the right person to be leading a side full of young men learning the game.
You can see whatever you like. There is a losing culture that is entrenched in our club, and with a few breaks in between, has been continuously entrenched for nearly 20 years. It's very difficult for kids to come in and try and turn that around.
The problem is bigger than the players. We have seen very similar efforts with Pagan, Malthouse, Barker, Brittain and Bolton. Different coaches, different players, different eras, but the song remains the same. Why do you think that is ? Sacking a coach every few years and bringing a truckload of new players every few years does not appear to be working in my book. Why do you think that different players and different coaches produce the same result ?
BRING BACK RATTS :-\
I reckon Weitering's issues stem back to Jones' revival, you cant play two intercept specialists. Since then the lad has looked lost. Here's an idea, trade out Liam, and potentially resurrect a former number one pick to manage the defence whilst Doc moves into the midfield. He would fit into GC's back six easily.
The only problem with replacing Jones with Weitering is that Weitering is so slow and couldn't possibly get to some of the contests that Jones does. Jones can match it with just about any tall and then get to other contests such is his speed over the grass.
BRING BACK RATTS :-\
Unfortunately we burnt that bridge.
We signed Polson for 2 years more too based on zero form...he wouldnt get a game in a high school team.....
This. Total joke.
Just got back from Brisbane. The only thing better about yesterday performance over the performance in Hobart was the weather was better. Without diminishing the unfolding potential disaster in Thailand, I feel Carlton is like that soccer team stuck in those caves. It is totally dark, there is no light at the end of the tunnel, we are running out of oxygen, the flood waters are rising and everyone on the outside don't really have a plan to get us out while everyone in charge just keep saying keep calm, everything will be all right. People are criticising Bolton for his press conferences, but what can he really say. It is a disaster and there is no glimmer of hope. When I go to the games, what I am looking at the moment is for something that shows that the future is going to be better. I don't see it. I just want a quarter where our young players just run free, winning the ball, connecting with team mates, kicking goals and executing their skills and I can walk away and say I can see the future. At the moment, all I see is our past.
Unfortunately we burnt that bridge.
Perhaps it can be rebuilt, but senior coach he won't be at our football club.
Think of it this way, Bolton worked with Ratten and still decided to come to us anyway. Perhaps he's not as bitter about what happened with us as we think he is.
Bolton must stay senior coach though and Ratten shouldn't return to our footy club until he's had a coaching stint of his own elsewhere.
We don't have much to offer people anymore at our footy club. We are pathetic, our supporters are too polarised to rock up anymore, I'm anticipating a drop in our members next season and we'll struggle to get a player come to our footy club. That means we can only offer people a chance of playing first team afl football or second and last chances when they've stuffed up their career and to do that we need to ensure that our culture regarding how we treat people is solid and doesn't outcast anyone anymore and can make the most of them. Until that changes we aren't going anywhere.
Here's is my simplistic (and perhaps naive) view of the situation. Whether we win or lose all the remaining games for the year:
- I will buy into the reasoning from the powers that be that this year was predicted to be our worst due to the turnover of players and the age profile being worst case.
- I will also buy into the fact that the injuries to key players has further tested our lack of depth and hence why we are one win from fifteen.
- I will partly accept that yesterday losing losing Simmo, Phillips and Marchy (albeit late), our structure was completely thrown into chaos (again lack of experienced depth).
But I'll tell you something fo free, this is the last time I will buy into any such excuses from the club. I'll write this year off based on the above, but thats it. If we are 0-5 or even 0-3 at the start of 2019, the board must go immediately and the coach and all his assistants must go at the end of the year (if not sooner). Its time for the club to grow some balls, plan for it now and either live or die by the sword. They can't keep stringing us along with BS, I refuse to accept anymore results like yesterday or the Freo game. I get the rebuild thing and doing it properly and I have been happy to see the "unCarlton" approach taken to date, but I have reached the end of my tether. My faith has now waivered and I need realignment.
But I also have a conspiracy theory. I said in a post that we are either tanking to ensure we get pick one or the coach and MC are clueless. Given BB came from a successful system, I don't believe its the latter. I personally believe they are manipulating the dot points I listed above to manufacture a convenient outcome. I now also believe Liddles "we dont want a priority pick" was a strategic ploy to actually draw one from the AFL (ie to divert attention away from any tanking debates). The AFL will not allow us to go through a season with one win and not give us PP. I reckon the club would be loving the media (like King) saying we are soulless and not playing for the jumper etc etc. Notice not one journo has used the T word yet? Maybe the club is cleverer than what we all thought. Conspiracy theory? Is it possible to manufacture the outcomes? Most will say probably not but something doesn't add up for mine. Maybe I have been reading too many LP posts (only joking fella) ;D ;D ;D
Can't get the full BB presser for some reason but in the short version he reiterates, yet again, the need to be challenged and to work hard, really hard! I would think there should be some consideration given to working a bit smarter?? Doubling down on methods that are not leading to any consistent signs of improvement surely just leads to more frustration and more failure? I'm obviously not privy to any of the details but it seems like this has become something like the blind application of a dogma. I'm very concerned (understatement!).
GTC, I don't mind that post. It's not all that implausible IMO.
At any rate, the end of this season can't come quick enough IMO.
Can't get the full BB presser for some reason but in the short version he reiterates, yet again, the need to be challenged and to work hard, really hard! I would think there should be some consideration given to working a bit smarter?? Doubling down on methods that are not leading to any consistent signs of improvement surely just leads to more frustration and more failure? I'm obviously not privy to any of the details but it seems like this has become something like the blind application of a dogma. I'm very concerned (understatement!).
It's hidden in the article on Marchy's heart condition for some reason :
http://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-07-07/full-postmatch-blues
I now also believe Liddles "we dont want a priority pick" was a strategic ploy to actually draw one from the AFL (ie to divert attention away from any tanking debates). The AFL will not allow us to go through a season with one win and not give us PP. I reckon the club would be loving the media (like King) saying we are soulless and not playing for the jumper etc etc. Notice not one journo has used the T word yet? Maybe the club is cleverer than what we all thought. Conspiracy theory? Is it possible to manufacture the outcomes? Most will say probably not but something doesn't add up for mine. Maybe I have been reading too many LP posts (only joking fella) ;D ;D ;D
Or at least to stop Brisbane getting a PP?
Would be impossile for the AFL to give Brissy a PP and not CFC after that result yesterday?
So, either both get one or no one does.
But I also have a conspiracy theory. I said in a post that we are either tanking to ensure we get pick one or the coach and MC are clueless. Given BB came from a successful system, I don't believe its the latter. I personally believe they are manipulating the dot points I listed above to manufacture a convenient outcome. I now also believe Liddles "we dont want a priority pick" was a strategic ploy to actually draw one from the AFL (ie to divert attention away from any tanking debates). The AFL will not allow us to go through a season with one win and not give us PP. I reckon the club would be loving the media (like King) saying we are soulless and not playing for the jumper etc etc. Notice not one journo has used the T word yet? Maybe the club is cleverer than what we all thought. Conspiracy theory? Is it possible to manufacture the outcomes? Most will say probably not but something doesn't add up for mine. Maybe I have been reading too many LP posts (only joking fella) ;D ;D ;D
Something certainly doesn't add up.
There's such a dramatic difference between games where we bring effort and games when we don't seem to have that same attitude.
The problem I'm having is that you can almost predict which Carlton side will show up following the team selections on a Thursday night.
The fact that it's predictable indicates to me there are a few things going on and being manipulated behind the scenes.
It's a dangerous game though.
Angry supporters are one thing.
Wealthy angry powerbrokers are another story...and if they surface and gain momentum the best laid plans may suddenly be out the window.
GTC, I don't mind that post. It's not all that implausible IMO.
At any rate, the end of this season can't come quick enough IMO.
Agree
Here's is my simplistic (and perhaps naive) view of the situation. Whether we win or lose all the remaining games for the year:
- I will buy into the reasoning from the powers that be that this year was predicted to be our worst due to the turnover of players and the age profile being worst case.
- I will also buy into the fact that the injuries to key players has further tested our lack of depth and hence why we are one win from fifteen.
- I will partly accept that yesterday losing losing Simmo, Phillips and Marchy (albeit late), our structure was completely thrown into chaos (again lack of experienced depth).
But I'll tell you something fo free, this is the last time I will buy into any such excuses from the club. I'll write this year off based on the above, but thats it. If we are 0-5 or even 0-3 at the start of 2019, the board must go immediately and the coach and all his assistants must go at the end of the year (if not sooner). Its time for the club to grow some balls, plan for it now and either live or die by the sword. They can't keep stringing us along with BS, I refuse to accept anymore results like yesterday or the Freo game. I get the rebuild thing and doing it properly and I have been happy to see the "unCarlton" approach taken to date, but I have reached the end of my tether. My faith has now waivered and I need realignment.
But I also have a conspiracy theory. I said in a post that we are either tanking to ensure we get pick one or the coach and MC are clueless. Given BB came from a successful system, I don't believe its the latter. I personally believe they are manipulating the dot points I listed above to manufacture a convenient outcome. I now also believe Liddles "we dont want a priority pick" was a strategic ploy to actually draw one from the AFL (ie to divert attention away from any tanking debates). The AFL will not allow us to go through a season with one win and not give us PP. I reckon the club would be loving the media (like King) saying we are soulless and not playing for the jumper etc etc. Notice not one journo has used the T word yet? Maybe the club is cleverer than what we all thought. Conspiracy theory? Is it possible to manufacture the outcomes? Most will say probably not but something doesn't add up for mine. Maybe I have been reading too many LP posts (only joking fella) ;D ;D ;D
Me Too. But if it's true and we are exposed.......hand the keys in.
You're obviously pleased with his output. I suppose some are easier pleased than others. But hey, I'm not here to judge...
Murphy's had an excellent career. You're just a hater with no idea.
Something certainly doesn't add up.
There's such a dramatic difference between games where we bring effort and games when we don't seem to have that same attitude.
The problem I'm having is that you can almost predict which Carlton side will show up following the team selections on a Thursday night.
The fact that it's predictable indicates to me there are a few things going on and being manipulated behind the scenes.
It's a dangerous game though.
Angry supporters are one thing.
Wealthy angry powerbrokers are another story...and if they surface and gain momentum the best laid plans may suddenly be out the window.
I have far less tolerance for tanking than I do for incompetence - soul crushing stuff.
" "It is terrible and unbearable to an artist", he said, "to be encouraged to do, to be applauded for doing, his second best."
Babette's Feast, by Karen Blixen, for those who may be interested.
We aren't tanking.
We have a poor list due to our abysmal recruiting over the last decade, 5 or 6 of our first round picks no longer at the club for example, this same abysmal recruiting means that we lack a cohort of mid 20's 100 game plus players to provide leadership and stability.
There's simply no easy or quick fix, and why we have refused to countenance a priority pick is a mystery to me.
This week against the Aints will be interesting... from a tanking view point, we can afford to win because we won't jeopardize our last place. A 'no risk' win. Probably will win to avoid the worst season ever tag.
Whatever is going on at our club it can't all be attributed to injuries and turnover of playing personnel... too many of our kids seem to have lost their appetite for the contest and/or seem confused. And way too many of the blokes we've traded in are ordinary or non-hackers!
My biggest concern is that Crippa's agent/manager will take him to one side and whisper, "Mate, sure you don't want to go home? We could slot you in at the Eagles for very good money and they're a side doing well. Do you really want to waste your great potential and career with these seductive talking losers?"
Murphy's had an excellent career. You're just a hater with no idea.
Yep
My biggest concern is that Crippa's agent/manager will take him to one side and whisper, "Mate, sure you don't want to go home? We could slot you in at the Eagles for very good money and they're a side doing well. Do you really want to waste your great potential and career with these seductive talking losers?"
Like that'll happen! Do you think a manager would behave that way, what's in it for the manager, premiership player wage commissions on marketing and bonus payments or something? ::)
They are basically financial managers, if they didn't make that suggestion they would be in trouble, it would be negligent!
Was yesterday's game the game a team plays when it knows Cripps is leaving?Was the Kreuzer helmet a sign of a career ending?Something was not right about yesterday's game!
My biggest concern is that Crippa's agent/manager will take him to one side and whisper, "Mate, sure you don't want to go home? We could slot you in at the Eagles for very good money and they're a side doing well. Do you really want to waste your great potential and career with these seductive talking losers?"
Cripps came out yesterday and said that the players needed to stick tight and work hard, and that they were all in it together.
He either meant what he said and won't be going anywhere or it was spin, we'll find out in due course I guess.
Cripps came out yesterday and said that the players needed to stick tight and work hard, and that they were all in it together.
He either meant what he said and won't be going anywhere or it was spin, we'll find out in due course I guess.
That was spin but what you would expect and want to hear......
Playing 4 talls in defence then expecting to play a zoning, offensive game, just doesn't make sense. Essentally dumb coaching.
Like that'll happen! Do you think a manager would behave that way, what's in it for the manager, premiership player wage commissions on marketing and bonus payments or something? ::)
They are basically financial managers, if they didn't make that suggestion they would be in trouble, it would be negligent!
Was yesterday's game the game a team plays when it knows Cripps is leaving?
Was the Kreuzer helmet a sign of a career ending?
Something was not right about yesterday's game!
Fridays "Whisper" in the Hun suggested something similar, ie recalled player fearing that this might be his last game, I thought Gilbert, but I was concerned about the helmet too, said as much to Mrs Hanwell, there had been no mention from the club in regards to him wearing a helmet. Agree something smells in Denmark folks.
Playing 4 talls in defence then expecting to play a zoning, offensive game, just doesn't make sense. Essentally dumb coaching.
Agree..I guess tactically we knew Bolton wasnt going to be head of his class given his lack of experience, think he needs better support around him
to help him with his match day coaching. Was also very slow to respond to how Beams was slaughtering us and getting out on his own.....
I will credit him for putting work into Zorko though and the Ed Curnow/Lamb tag worked ok for the first quarter till the floodgates broke...
Agree..I guess tactically we knew Bolton wasnt going to be head of his class given his lack of experience, think he needs better support around him
to help him with his match day coaching. Was also very slow to respond to how Beams was slaughtering us and getting out on his own.....
I will credit him for putting work into Zorko though and the Ed Curnow/Lamb tag worked ok for the first quarter till the floodgates broke...
I'm not sure he is cut out for the job of such a big rebuild with his experience. Melbourne at least used Roos for that job.
Wonder if a lack of AFL playing experience contributes to that. Don't really know if that's the case, just throwing out there.
Agree..I guess tactically we knew Bolton wasnt going to be head of his class given his lack of experience, think he needs better support around him
to help him with his match day coaching. Was also very slow to respond to how Beams was slaughtering us and getting out on his own.....
I will credit him for putting work into Zorko though and the Ed Curnow/Lamb tag worked ok for the first quarter till the floodgates broke...
Bolton spoke about this very issue in his presser. Said we were behind on the scoreboard and it becomes a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario if we try and tag too many. He said there's little point in playing 2 or 3 taggers when we are trying to win a game of footy - trying to tag Beams, Zorko etc. doesn't help us score. We didn't see much that was good yesterday, but I think he understands tactics well enough.
Murphy's had an excellent career. You're just a hater with no idea.
Murphy's had a decent career, a good player. Nothing more.
Murphy's had a decent career, a good player. Nothing more.
That's a silly statement Flyboy which exposes your prejudice!
Marc Murphy
Carlton captain (2013–)
2× John Nicholls Medal (2011, 2017)
AFLCA Champion Player of the Year (2011)
All-Australian team (2011)
AFLPA Best First Year Player Award (2006)
AFL Rising Star nominee (2006)
Larke Medal (2005)
International rules series (2008)
There would be less than a a dozen or so players in the league with a better personal record!
Murphy's had a decent career, a good player. Nothing more.
His record says otherwise.
His record says otherwise.
He's a gun and has been from day one.
It's common for supporters of struggling clubs to get stuck into the better players, Gibbs copped it for years but he'd be very handy now.
Whitnall, Campo and Stevens copped heaps as well.
Judd seemed to be immune, and Cripps is headed that way.
Bolton spoke about this very issue in his presser. Said we were behind on the scoreboard and it becomes a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario if we try and tag too many. He said there's little point in playing 2 or 3 taggers when we are trying to win a game of footy - trying to tag Beams, Zorko etc. doesn't help us score. We didn't see much that was good yesterday, but I think he understands tactics well enough.
Given the previous meetings I would have thought Beams and Zorko both required heavy tagging.........Beams is quality, if you let him get 40 possies you are probably not going to win the game.....agree you cant run 3-4 heavy tags but given how Brisbane setup and how they dont run that deep for talent we should have been better prepared for Beams and run the extra tagger on him...
Jim has commented on how we perform better when its a contested/congested game rather than a open field running type game with this zone defense setup and I think we just played into Brisbane and Beams hands by allowing him freedom to get out on his own....
A lot of our games seem lost before the ball is bounced both tactically and selection wise......
You can see whatever you like. There is a losing culture that is entrenched in our club, and with a few breaks in between, has been continuously entrenched for nearly 20 years. It's very difficult for kids to come in and try and turn that around.
The problem is bigger than the players. We have seen very similar efforts with Pagan, Malthouse, Barker, Brittain and Bolton. Different coaches, different players, different eras, but the song remains the same. Why do you think that is ? Sacking a coach every few years and bringing a truckload of new players every few years does not appear to be working in my book. Why do you think that different players and different coaches produce the same result ?
Been saying the same for years.
I was seen as 'pro-malthouse' because i tried to point out that the coach wasn't the problem. But no, he got the sack, like many before him, as we tried to paper over the cracks once again. Our PR department did wonders by making him out to be the sole problem at the club. What that did was bought us time, for the first time in our history. We've bought in and allowed a rebuild/reset to happen. We're still on board now. We may just pull ourselves out of it this time. We may not.
Having said that, McKay going is probably one of the last remaining pieces of the puzzle that saw our darkest ever era. Whether he should have any/all blame is up for debate, but a clean slate continues the 'reset' mantra.
We have more talent on the list now than ever. Hopefully the culture problem hasn't taken a hold of the latest bunch of players too. Otherwise this coach is gone too.
Malthouse wasn't the only problem, but he was certainly a problem, and had to go. The thing is, plenty of others should have gone with him.
Malthouse wasn't the only problem, but he was certainly a problem, and had to go. The thing is, plenty of others should have gone with him.
Regardless of everything else, which of our players is flying the flag?
To me Daisy looks beaten down and just about finished and he was one of our best yesterday. What does that say about the rest of them?
Samo had pure joy on his face when he kicked that early goal and tried his guts out all day but isn’t impacting enough.
Weiters looks severely depressed to me. What is going on there?
Fish is tireless in his efforts.
Is it merely the mid aged players bit providing enough? And making really stupid mistakes, that just then demoralises the side? So hard to know.
Malthouse was an arrogant old prick, it was a massive mistake to get him for a number of reasons but mainly that one!
Interesting take on Harry.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/07/08/andy-maher-sums-up-the-number-one-thing-frustrating-carlton-fans/
There's no doubt our performance v Lions and Freo and probably North were poor. Poor from MC to in game tactics and effort. Conspiracy theorists might say they are 3 of the sh£; teams heading into the season. They might also add our poor performance v GC into the mix to support "lose the winnable for pick 1 theory". Interestingly they are somewhat scattered across rounds opposed to consecutively played.
In between we've had some q's of very good football. That's at times despite injuries or playing injured / under conditioned players. We've played many games without our captain and our list week-week has had more changes than a chameleon. No captain, no A grader (I.e Gibbs), no AA. No consistent contingent of B graders with experience playing together (ffs even mullet O'Shea have been in - out). At it's simplest performance could reflect the fact that too much change will not produce positive outcomes. Place that in the context of a novice coach leading a club rebuild in a club that has never (stooped so low...) engaged in rebuild processes.
Yesterday's performance could also reflect what Lamb spoke of post game. He evidently lost several kilos being depleted of fluid. 》dehydration 》 lethargy 》 cardiovascular compromise (heart rate elevates). Is this what also happened to Merchant? I have no idea but I do know that we've got flogged in Brisbane consistently for 3 4 5 years. The optimist in me says this years no different and the club acknowledged this will be the worst year of the rebuild.
The pessimist, however, says our club's hit an all time low. It will be intruiging to see how the club AND the AFL respond. Amen.
Look after yourselves bluebaggers. Whatever is going down is burdensome to even the most optimistic of us ^-^ :'(
Interesting take on Harry.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/07/08/andy-maher-sums-up-the-number-one-thing-frustrating-carlton-fans/
Simplistic view IMO, there is obviously something we're not aware of be it attitude, work rate or injury. I reckon it's a combination of all 3 and hopefully more towards the injury and work rate rather than attitude. While we have kids developing in the ones they all appear to have the right attitude, let's hope he finds the missing ingeredient soon as he no doubt has the talent.
Simplistic view IMO, there is obviously something we're not aware of be it attitude, work rate or injury. I reckon it's a combination of all 3 and hopefully more towards the injury and work rate rather than attitude. While we have kids developing in the ones they all appear to have the right attitude, let's hope he finds the missing ingeredient soon as he no doubt has the talent.
Hard to say. Not seeing alot of attitude on-field. If that's what they are asking of Harry then 90% of the side needs to be dropped.
Simplistic view IMO, there is obviously something we're not aware of be it attitude, work rate or injury. I reckon it's a combination of all 3 and hopefully more towards the injury and work rate rather than attitude. While we have kids developing in the ones they all appear to have the right attitude, let's hope he finds the missing ingeredient soon as he no doubt has the talent.
Yep, I have to agree, an article which is more of an insight into Maher's desperation for some Carlton success than any real solution.
Malthouse was an arrogant old prick, it was a massive mistake to get him for a number of reasons but mainly that one!
Bolton is a different personality and has a different style to Malthouse, but seems similarly fixated on an inflexible game plan that doesn't work.
Bolton is a different personality and has a different style to Malthouse, but seems similarly fixated on an inflexible game plan that doesn't work.
The game plan would work if he brought the Dawks list with him!
I'm far more impressed by coaches that work with and improve what they are given, than coaches who have a formulaic approach and renovate the environment/list to suit an existing plan!
That was MM's problem, he had one plan and needed the whole place turned on it's head to make it work! Even then it would have been a plan that all the opponents knew well, nothing innovative!
Dimma's success is a great example, his list hasn't changed much, but he changed even if it was just by getting himself and the other dud coaches out of the player's way!
The game plan would work if he brought the Dawks list with him!
I'm far more impressed by coaches that work with and improve what they are given, than coaches who have a formulaic approach and renovate the environment/list to suit an existing plan!
That was MM's problem, he had one plan and needed the whole place turned on it's head to make it work! Even then it would have been a plan that all the opponents knew well, nothing innovative!
Dimma's success is a great example, his list hasn't changed much, but he changed even if it was just by getting himself and the other dud coaches out of the player's way!
I'd be content if Bolton would work with the list he has. But he doesn't and his game plan isn't right for where our playing group is at. We need to get the basics right and develop some fighting spirit by playing tight, competitive one on one footy. As a young team we will still get beaten in the contests, but I'd rather see them go down fighting than running around confused, uninterested and playing soft football.
I'd be content if Bolton would work with the list he has. But he doesn't and his game plan isn't right for where our playing group is at. We need to get the basics right and develop some fighting spirit by playing tight, competitive one on one footy. As a young team we will still get beaten in the contests, but I'd rather see them go down fighting than running around confused, uninterested and playing soft football.
The only doubt I have, is this BB's game plan or is he under instruction from above?
If he is, what integrity does he have, if he is under instruction what integrity does our club have?
If he isn't under instruction, is that even worse?
It's hidden in the article on Marchy's heart condition for some reason :
http://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-07-07/full-postmatch-blues
Thanks Paul.
There was a marking contest on the wing in which Chuck was awarded a free (it was indicated that way) then for some inexplicable reason the lions got the free. Everybody had stopped, but the Lions had the ball at deck level and the bloke cribbed and just ran off with it and the peanut umpiring just waved advantage...ended up a soft goal to Barrettvand that just about finished us off I thought.
Anybody recall us getting one of those "cribbed" run forward to advantage incidents this season?
That's a silly statement Flyboy which exposes your prejudice!
Marc Murphy
Carlton captain (2013–)
2× John Nicholls Medal (2011, 2017)
AFLCA Champion Player of the Year (2011)
All-Australian team (2011)
AFLPA Best First Year Player Award (2006)
AFL Rising Star nominee (2006)
Larke Medal (2005)
International rules series (2008)
There would be less than a a dozen or so players in the league with a better personal record!
Buddy, Burgoyne, Roughead, Ziebel, Pendlebury, Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Selwood, Dangerfield, Betts, Fyfe, Sanderlands, Josh Kennedy, Josh Kennedy, Luke Parker, Dan Hannebery, Sloane, Robbie Gray, Bontampelli, Matthew Boyd, Heath Shaw, Hodge, Jordan Lewis, Harry Taylor, Jack Riewoldt
The game plan would work if he brought the Dawks list with him!
I'm far more impressed by coaches that work with and improve what they are given, than coaches who have a formulaic approach and renovate the environment/list to suit an existing plan!
That was MM's problem, he had one plan and needed the whole place turned on it's head to make it work! Even then it would have been a plan that all the opponents knew well, nothing innovative!
Dimma's success is a great example, his list hasn't changed much, but he changed even if it was just by getting himself and the other dud coaches out of the player's way!
Yes you wonder with the young talent we have, what would happen if they said just go for it, you guys set the agenda and follow it through.
Too many cooks in the CFC coaching kitchen?
Regardless of everything else, which of our players is flying the flag?
To me Daisy looks beaten down and just about finished and he was one of our best yesterday. What does that say about the rest of them?
Samo had pure joy on his face when he kicked that early goal and tried his guts out all day but isn’t impacting enough.
Weiters looks severely depressed to me. What is going on there?
Fish is tireless in his efforts.
Is it merely the mid aged players bit providing enough? And making really stupid mistakes, that just then demoralises the side? So hard to know.
I think the problem with Weiters and SPS is that they are both slow as treacle. I think they are both struggling with the speed at which the game is played and the speed of other players from other clubs. They both get caught alot, they need to develop some trick to get them out of trouble. We have far too many slow coaches.
I think the problem with Weiters and SPS is that they are both slow as treacle. I think they are both struggling with the speed at which the game is played and the speed of other players from other clubs. They both get caught alot, they need to develop some trick to get them out of trouble. We have far too many slow coaches.
Weitering is slow and mentally shot........he looks like a soldier suffering shell shock and when the big guns fire off he just wants to stay in the trench and pray for survival....
Jason Dunstall commented on Weitering and he cant work out whats gone wrong either...
SPS just cant work hard enough for 100 minutes, talent is there but the desire is inconsistent...
I think the problem with Weiters and SPS is that they are both slow as treacle. I think they are both struggling with the speed at which the game is played and the speed of other players from other clubs. They both get caught alot, they need to develop some trick to get them out of trouble. We have far too many slow coaches.
Freudian slip ::)
Malthouse did that and people accused him of playing favourites.
Can't have it both ways.
Daisy was high profile, banged up, Mick's love child and his money was seen as being the Eddie money.....bit different..more controversial...
I'm talking more players like Sicily who was still a raw unloved talent, Hartung, OBrien etc...moneyball types whose future with the Hawks was less certain....and maybe one fading star like Lewis as I said...
Malthouse did that and people accused him of playing favourites.
Can't have it both ways.
He definitely wanted to follow his coach as well and McGuire knew it.
I don't disagree with anything you say there.
I'm not calling for anyone to be sacked right now. I just am starting to doubt what is going on.
We have turned over 40 odd players, and have a brand new coach who is supposedly a master at teaching the kids.
I don't have an issue with the players we have drafted, some are not up to it, but that's not something you generally know when you get them in the place, or at least hopefully not.
We have a coach who is saying all of the right things, and as far as I am concerned, teaching the boys defence first was a great move. I was all on board with that, even when plenty have been calling for a more attacking style. I think if your defence is right, you are 75% of the way there.
What I can't cop is the insipid performances. The lack of heart. The lack of effort. The lack of pride. The lack of playing like you want to be a professional player. There are a few guys in the side who play like that, unfortunately they are for the most part the ones with less than the required skill level, or the blokes coming to the end of their career.
My response was to your statement about wanting to see how Bolton goes with more players available. If yesterday's effort was repeated, it wouldn't matter which 18 guys were out there, they'd have still stunk it up.
Effort. That's what I want. Not just against this side or that, but every week.
You want to know why McKay isn't getting a run, it's because he is lazy, and doesn't give required effort. He has obviously been told to improve that part of his game, and he hasn't. The thing that mystifies me about McKay is why plenty of other guys aren't in the same position.
You want to know why Polson, SOJ and O'Shea keep getting a run? Because they try their guts out.
I think from the outside, what supporters see as lack of effort can be many things - genuine laziness on the players part, fatigue, bad attitude. Sometimes you may find players not running, not chasing - is this because of confusion about who does what, is it trying to not make a mistake by running to the wrong spot, is it sticking to the game plan which is based on zones, so if you abandon your part of the zone, you're in strife ? Some times there may be some behind the scenes personal things that we don't know about that throws things off. I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud, and maybe I'm talking through my ar$e.
We've seen very good effort at times this season. Don't forget last night, we had Simmo as a late out, Marchy and Philips injured, Rowe has to go forward, so the backline (with no Doc, Rowe, Marchy, Plowman, Simmo, ACOS etc.) was a shemozzle. Also we were down on rotations from very early on etc.
If you believe in simplistic dualities, then we either have talented types who don't put in 4 q efforts or gut busters who have little talent and awful skills.
I for one will not, for the first time in decades, be buying my membership before May/June next year... not unless something real, something concrete happens. No more fluff, no more excuses, no more scripted responses from the media dept., no more justifications, rationalisations or corporate cliches'/spin from Juddy and co.
This year I reduced my membership to home games only and will need to see more competitiveness before increasing my commitment.
The biggest problem (apart from injuries) is that we have been trying to play a team zone defence but some of the team are unable or unwilling to work hard enough to keep the net intact.
Speed kills; lack of speed is more devastating; but unwillingness to use what speed you have is unforgivable.
This year I reduced my membership to home games only and will need to see more competitiveness before increasing my commitment.
The biggest problem (apart from injuries) is that we have been trying to play a team zone defence but some of the team are unable or unwilling to work hard enough to keep the net intact.
Speed kills; lack of speed is more devastating; but unwillingness to use what speed you have is unforgivable.
Well said.
I'll give you one to explain...." we will be defined by pressure"...............
Agree that pressure from last year is non existent.
I wonder if it is Teague trying to implement a different game style with a team that doesn’t have the tools.
Our list has been smashed by injury so it seems odd to open up our game plan
Agree that pressure from last year is non existent.
I wonder if it is Teague trying to implement a different game style with a team that doesn’t have the tools.
Our list has been smashed by injury so it seems odd to open up our game plan
Fair points IMO.
I'll give you one to explain...." we will be defined by pressure"...............
Yeah, that confuses most people I reckon.
That aside I don't know what people expect the coach to say after a heavy loss, he's not about to come out and say that his players are hopeless or that he's hopeless, all he can do is try and stay positive and keep whacking away at it.
Realistically we were always going to lose yesterday's game, so when we lost Simpson and three players during the game a 60 point loss shouldn't really surprise anyone.
I'll reserve my judgement on Bolton's ability as a coach until he's got something like a full list.
Yeah, that confuses most people I reckon.
That aside I don't know what people expect the coach to say after a heavy loss, he's not about to come out and say that his players are hopeless or that hevs hopeless, all he can do is try and stay positive and keep whacking away at it.
Realistically we were always going to lose yesterday's game, so when we lost Simpson and three players during the game a 60 point loss shouldn't really surprise anyone.
I'll reserve my judgement on Bolton's ability as a coach until he's got something like a full list.
Agree.
I'll give you one to explain...." we will be defined by pressure"...............
Well that's a fail. How about something easier, like, "We will be defined by how nice we are and our attendance record..." Or, "We will be defined by the persistence of our cliches..."
Yeah, that confuses most people I reckon.
That aside I don't know what people expect the coach to say after a heavy loss, he's not about to come out and say that his players are hopeless or that he's hopeless, all he can do is try and stay positive and keep whacking away at it.
Realistically we were always going to lose yesterday's game, so when we lost Simpson and three players during the game a 60 point loss shouldn't really surprise anyone.
I'll reserve my judgement on Bolton's ability as a coach until he's got something like a full list.
Yep! Me too.
Yep! Me too.
It's clearly an accurate statement, we fold under pressure! ;)
That's pretty definitive! :o
Watched some footage on one of the foxtel shows after the Freo debacle and it showed one example of how they were able to get free players running inside 50.
The commentators at the time just called us lazy and we probably were on here too but it was actually the opposite.
Paddy Dow made a mistake and ran hard from half back to help put pressure on a player on the wing but in doing so he left a big hole in our zone which they took advantage of.
It wasn't our lazy players or even bad coaching but just a first year player making a mistake.
Our guys are having great trouble working out how to play the zones. Liam Jones is a prime example and has been shown several times leaving huge gaps with opposition players then taking advantage. I guess it comes down to nous and judgement, both of which seem lacking at times. BB seems to want to persist with this game plan though and I guess the learning will continue to be painful.
Our guys are having great trouble working out how to play the zones. Liam Jones is a prime example and has been shown several times leaving huge gaps with opposition players then taking advantage. I guess it comes down to nous and judgement, both of which seem lacking at times. BB seems to want to persist with this game plan though and I guess the learning will continue to be painful.
Actually I forgot to add Jones had to leave his man because of Dow's error. We all would have blamed Jones but our zone was already broken and is probably the reason why Jones finds himself in that situation.
Actually I forgot to add Jones had to leave his man because of Dow's error. We all would have blamed Jones but our zone was already broken and is probably the reason why Jones finds himself in that situation.
Agree, it's not Jones or Weitering, at the game it's clear, watching off the TV the person in shot gets the blame. And whatever you do do not listen to the radio, they don't even get the player names correct!
Get some wide angle views of the opposition kicking into our F50 and you'll see a Carlton defender corralled by 3 or 4 opponents and not another Carlton player in sight. It's why I was so disappointed with BB's weekend comments, he was blaming the defense, maybe he meant the defensive structure or efforts from mids or forwards, but it came across like BB was pointing the finger at Jones, Weitering and others in D50. Our defenders cannot fix the problem when they are often outnumbered 2:1.
FFS, a mate who was at the ground tells me at one stage the Lions got the ball and started heading down the wing into our D50 being chased by Carlton players. One of our chasers gave up the chase, took a right run on the wing and headed to the bench!
A zone defense or zones all over the ground is more brains than brawn, and require each and every player to understand their role and stick with it. Man on man is more meat and potatoes. Adopting zones in defense or elsewhere has merit - the outcome is less determined by one on one battles (ideal if you don't have the right match ups in key areas), it helps to spread the risk, and also can mean less running, especially helpful for youngsters or the aerobically challenged.
The problem is it only takes one error of judgment, or injuries to key personnel, for it to fall apart.
Actually I forgot to add Jones had to leave his man because of Dow's error. We all would have blamed Jones but our zone was already broken and is probably the reason why Jones finds himself in that situation.
Fair comment MBB. I wasn't trying to single out Jones, or even blame our defence necessarily, there seems to be confusion throughout the team atm. I don't think our players are as bad as they look at times - I think they are also struggling with their roles and with the game plan. BB will not budge though so we'll see.
The only thing that has come out of this year is .....thank F for Essendon!
A zone defense or zones all over the ground is more brains than brawn, and require each and every player to understand their role and stick with it. Man on man is more meat and potatoes. Adopting zones in defense or elsewhere has merit - the outcome is less determined by one on one battles (ideal if you don't have the right match ups in key areas), it helps to spread the risk, and also can mean less running, especially helpful for youngsters or the aerobically challenged.
The problem is it only takes one error of judgment, or injuries to key personnel, for it to fall apart.
And players need to play with one another for an extended period to make it all work, but not only do we have raw beginners trying to learn the basics we can't seem to get any continuity due to our run of injuries.
There were five changes again this week, three of them forced, and then we lost three players during the game.
The result was really a foregone conclusion.
The only thing that has come out of this year is .....thank F for Essendon!
Worst season in our history?
Its ok, we still beat essendon.
Worst season in our history?
Its ok, we still beat essendon.
Think a bit harder. Have to say that alot.
Essendon will save us the embarrassment of a zero season.
Actually I forgot to add Jones had to leave his man because of Dow's error. We all would have blamed Jones but our zone was already broken and is probably the reason why Jones finds himself in that situation.
Fox footy showed Marc Murphy repeat the exact same error at half back from behind the goals on saturday.
He got sucked into the contest, in the middle of the ground, leaving Zorko un-accounted for, the ball was simply chipped over him which created a scoring opportunity.
I can't remember if someone then ran off to Zorko, but it was easy as you like.
Fox footy showed Marc Murphy repeat the exact same error at half back from behind the goals on saturday.
He got sucked into the contest, in the middle of the ground, leaving Zorko un-accounted for, the ball was simply chipped over him which created a scoring opportunity.
I can't remember if someone then ran off to Zorko, but it was easy as you like.
Well there you go.
Yep. we are unimpressed at the youngsters not getting it, and yet here is our captain who we begged to stay with us, repeating the exact same problems.
Now Im all for players making mistakes, but what hope do we have if the captain makes the same errors?
Then there is the other side of that coin... Perhaps they were doing what they were asked to, and our opposition dont respect our players, and know that they will get beaten anyway and let them run into the contest.
It could be that had Murphy impacted we'd be going the other way and scoring with a number advantage.
You would have to be the coach to know either way...
Murphy is newer to defense than Jones, just because he's been around a long time and is captain shouldn't make people think he knows what he is doing in the back line!
We've been doing this the whole season, but the fans point the finger at Jones and Weitering. Too many see the effect and are oblivious to the cause! They'll call it pissweak defense.
In reality, if our blokes take the football in the same midfield situation, a Lions forward will chase us down! Our forwards jog along behind pointing fingers at defenders to get him, then we clap them for taking one contested mark a quarter! Refer to McKay and Casboult! ;)
Murphy is newer to defense than Jones, just because he's been around a long time and is captain shouldn't make people think he knows what he is doing in the back line!
We've been doing this the whole season, but the fans point the finger at Jones and Weitering. Too many see the effect and are oblivious to the cause! They'll call it pissweak defense.
In reality, if our blokes take the football in the same midfield situation, a Lions forward will chase us down! Our forwards jog along behind pointing fingers at defenders to get him, then we clap them for taking one contested mark a quarter! Refer to McKay and Casboult! ;)
Na, he's a 200 gamer and supposed leader of the club. He should know his midfield role like the back of his hand, and getting sucked into a midfield contest is either him taking the onus onto himself to leave the role he was assigned in an effort to fix what someone else is doing wrong or deciding that defending wasn't his go, with the only other option being, that this is what he thought he was supposed to do.
Na, he's a 200 gamer and supposed leader of the club. He should know his midfield role like the back of his hand, and getting sucked into a midfield contest is either him taking the onus onto himself to leave the role he was assigned in an effort to fix what someone else is doing wrong or deciding that defending wasn't his go, with the only other option being, that this is what he thought he was supposed to do.
Wasn't the debate about Marc Murphy making a mistake playing as a permanent defender?
I suppose there are levels of tolerance, but I do wonder how many games Mitch Robinson had played in the ruck when he punched that ball over the goal line? However, if he had repeated it over and over again! :o
I'd expect Murphy to learn faster than a newbie, but I don't expect him to be another Brian Lake or Sam Docherty overnight!
Que Será
Wasn't the debate about Marc Murphy making a mistake playing as a permanent defender?
I suppose there are levels of tolerance, but I do wonder how many games Mitch Robinson had played in the ruck when he punched that ball over the goal line? However, if he had repeated it over and over again! :o
I'd expect Murphy to learn faster than a newbie, but I don't expect him to be another Brian Lake or Sam Docherty overnight!
Que Será
It wasnt a debate it was something that Fox Footy pointed out, that he left his man (who may have simply dragged him forward) to return to the midfield contest (over 40 metres away) which saw him become just a witches hat to kick over as he couldnt cover that ground with any real hope of doing anything.
Still nothing from our invisible president and CEO. At least the previous incumbent would have come out with something, this Liddle bloke isn't exactly "engaging" this supporter.
I though eye gouging was three weeks, minimum.
I see that May continues to benefit from his "protected species" status. If he tummy taps Chuck I hope he drops the clown.
Just watching Talking Footy.
Lions had 309 uncontested possession and 24 marks inside 50. That's off the chart!
They were showing highlights of how we were zoning and showing how, as Carey said, we had absolutely no idea where we should be standing and positioning ourselves. Just totally lost as to what to do. He said the message, whatever he's teaching, is just not getting though using that style of play.
Just watching Talking Footy.
Lions had 309 uncontested possession and 24 marks inside 50. That's off the chart!
They were showing highlights of how we were zoning and showing how, as Carey said, we had absolutely no idea where we should be standing and positioning ourselves. Just totally lost as to what to do. He said the message, whatever he's teaching, is just not getting though using that style of play.
Agree Jim....game plan is useless, rather go back to congestion, mayhem and a stacked backline than watch Steven rack up 40 possies and have half the backline unoccupied with witches hats for players.....
Can we maybe give players a week off and simply tell them to play 1 on 1 footy.
This is your opponent for the day. Beat him.
May give some players back the confidence they might be lacking.
We'd be beaten in 15 or 16 of those 1 on 1 contests, maybe more, confidence would go even lower
We'd be beaten in 15 or 16 of those 1 on 1 contests, maybe more, confidence would go even lower
We are not short on talent. Look at how many 1st round picks we have.
We are short on confidence.
We are short on cohesion.
We are short on experience.
We are short on knowledge.
All of them have an effect on how we perform 'the game plan'.
Throw that out the window and just let the blokes play. Instinct will take over and they will play to their strengths.
It will also create havoc for the opposition when all their homework they've done throughout the week is flushed down the toilet from the centre bounce. It will force Richo to come up with a new plan on the fly. We should get a decent jump on them in the 1st quarter.
We are not short on talent. Look at how many 1st round picks we have.
We are short on confidence.
We are short on cohesion.
We are short on experience.
We are short on knowledge.
All of them have an effect on how we perform 'the game plan'.
Throw that out the window and just let the blokes play. Instinct will take over and they will play to their strengths.
It will also create havoc for the opposition when all their homework they've done throughout the week is flushed down the toilet from the centre bounce. It will force Richo to come up with a new plan on the fly. We should get a decent jump on them in the 1st quarter.
You've got the job!
Fisrt round draft picks just simply means they were good at junior football. Head to head our little kids would get brushed aside by the more experienced, bigger bodied saints players, at this stage. If we can keep our kids together, in 2 or 3 years is a different story
Fisrt round draft picks just simply means they were good at junior football. Head to head our little kids would get brushed aside by the more experienced, bigger bodied saints players, at this stage. If we can keep our kids together, in 2 or 3 years is a different story
But what kind of environment can we create for them to develop in. ATM their confidence is being systematically taken apart imo.
But what kind of environment can we create for them to develop in. ATM their confidence is being systematically taken apart imo.
The team which just pulled our pants down was a basket case in the 1990's, then they merged with an even bigger basket case.
It took time but the kids matured, gained confidence and formed themselves into one of the most dominant outfits that the game has ever seen.
Brisbane in the late nineties drafted en mass a swag of gun kids, who developed together. Lappin, Voss, Chris Scott, Aker, Black, Power, Bradshaw, Headland, etc...plus Lynch, Johnson, Molloy and Brown via the Fitzroy connection. Astute pick ups e. G. Pike, White. All very strongly self motivated, driven types. Potential plus effort = success.
Brisbane in the late nineties drafted en mass a swag of gun kids, who developed together. Lappin, Voss, Chris Scott, Aker, Black, Power, Bradshaw, Headland, etc...plus Lynch, Johnson, Molloy and Brown via the Fitzroy connection. Astute pick ups e. G. Pike, White. All very strongly self motivated, driven types. Potential plus effort = success.
Drool!
Brisbane in the late nineties drafted en mass a swag of gun kids, who developed together. Lappin, Voss, Chris Scott, Aker, Black, Power, Bradshaw, Headland, etc...plus Lynch, Johnson, Molloy and Brown via the Fitzroy connection. Astute pick ups e. G. Pike, White. All very strongly self motivated, driven types. Potential plus effort = success.
Mal Michael was a very good pick up as well.
Lynch was at Brisbane a few years before Fitzroy folded, Johnson was a gun but the only one of the four Fitzroy players which Brisbane were allowed to take to make a lasting impact, Molloy played his best football after moving to Collingwood and didn't play in any of the Brisbane Premiership teams.
By and large their success was built on the draft.
Brisbane in the late nineties drafted en mass a swag of gun kids, who developed together. Lappin, Voss, Chris Scott, Aker, Black, Power, Bradshaw, Headland, etc...plus Lynch, Johnson, Molloy and Brown via the Fitzroy connection. Astute pick ups e. G. Pike, White. All very strongly self motivated, driven types. Potential plus effort = success.
And Matthews was probably the last of the successful old school type of coaches.....by that I mean, you bloody well did it his way & measured up or you buggered off. Can you imagine any of this "oh he's lost the players" cr@p going around with a bloke like him at the helm.
Nope. Even Aker knew his role & was allowed some degree of licence to do it, but still within the coaches boundaries........very much like the relationship Crosswell had under Barassi. Two more opposite personalities you couldn't find....but it just worked. Had to have a pretty accountable team around them both though.
Matthews also got the best out of Pyke after three clubs decided that he was too much trouble.
Disappointed murphy said in a interview on Monday he would talk to the playing group as they know effort wasn't good enough blah blah blah. maybe he should of done that going off at half time and put a fierce rocket up the group. Couldn't see blokes like hodge brown Selwood etc waiting till Monday to do it. Everyone is too nice and understanding to our group we need some grunt or as they have in ice hockey a goon a protector to make youngsters walk taller not touching hands at each stoppage when no effort was given I hate him but this why Melbourne went after Lewis why lions got hodge crows are better with walker we need tough every tackle blokes, could have done with bonehead Robinson on our side not against us. We need to take respect back the hard way let the opposition know they will come off sore and have earned a win. We are young with some skill but need a big brother or two. Brisbane in the Matthews era had some absolute gun players but they also had some nasty pricks Hawks had hodge and Lewis
Matthews also got the best out of Pyke after three clubs decided that he was too much trouble.
Pyke and White were not bad footballers though, I frown at Carlton fans talking down Robinson as a footballer because of some off-field misdemeanors that were over-played by the media. He is and was a good footballer, and someone we dearly miss around the contest. There is no universal rule that a goose cannot be a good footballer, and MM was a hypocrite to condemn Robinson while excusing Alan "The Pistol" Didak and Heath "The Driver" Shaw!
Should the level of on-field exploit be of any relevance in determining such an outcome? Isn't that a Trumpism if we accept that is the case, one rule applied differently for some!
I'm not sure being stared down by Leigh Matthews is the same as being stared down by Brendan Bolton, but then few if any would be the equal of Leigh Matthews! Matthews has the eye of a White-Pointer as is cruises past ever so unnervingly! ;D
Pyke had a lot more ability than Robinson has though, so did Didak.
If I recall correctly Malthouse even admitted at the time that if it were two rookies rather than Didak and Shaw the outcome would have been different.
We got rid of a champion full forward for a lack of discipline but I supported the club's decision at the time and still do.
We got rid of a champion full forward for a lack of discipline but I supported the club's decision at the time and still do.
Very true.
Was Fevola less talented than Didak?
Was pissing on a restaurant window a bigger problem than firing an unlicensed and unregistered pistol into a factory, a gun provided by a bloke who was under police investigation?
Was separating drunken friends at a concert, or lying about defending a team-mate outside a night club, anywhere near as big of a problem?
Were any of Robinson's or Fevola's offenses worse than Drunk Unlicensed Driving?
I understand all the reasons, I do not understand how they can be so differently applied and for integrity to remain!
Very true.
Was Fevola less talented than Didak?
Was pissing on a restaurant window a bigger problem than firing an unlicensed and unregistered pistol into a factory, a gun provided by a bloke who was under police investigation?
Was separating drunken friends at a concert, or lying about defending a team-mate outside a night club, anywhere near as big of a problem?
Were any of Robinson's or Fevola's offenses worse than Drunk Unlicensed Driving?
I understand all the reasons, I do not understand how they can be so differently applied and for integrity to remain!
Our club was full of problems that needed fixing.
We were simply trying to minimise them.
Collingwood has less problems to deal with, so could focus more of their energies into that sort of thing than we could.
Our club was full of problems that needed fixing.
We were simply trying to minimise them.
Collingwood has less problems to deal with, so could focus more of their energies into that sort of thing than we could.
So moral judgment or natural justice depend on circumstance, that is another interesting but lengthy debate!
Best give Mav a call!
So moral judgment or natural justice depend on circumstance, that is another interesting but lengthy debate!
Best give Mav a call!
There is only so much time in the day. Bigger fish to fry.
Why don't cops spend all their time fining people for jaywalking?
Martin Pike was a good footballer, got out on the turps a lot but Matthews overlooked it......Pike was a hard unit who Brisbane kept on one year deals to keep him keen.
But he delivered in finals and was a better player than people gave credit to.
Robbo was a stuff up on our behalf and would have been ideal for our list given we have so many choir boys and little kids....vivid memory for me is Gibbs dumping some Essendon player on the ground before half time and Robbo having to rush in and protect Gibbs ..
Very true.
Was Fevola less talented than Didak?
Was pissing on a restaurant window a bigger problem than firing an unlicensed and unregistered pistol into a factory, a gun provided by a bloke who was under police investigation?
Was separating drunken friends at a concert, or lying about defending a team-mate outside a night club, anywhere near as big of a problem?
Were any of Robinson's or Fevola's offenses worse than Drunk Unlicensed Driving?
I understand all the reasons, I do not understand how they can be so differently applied and for integrity to remain!
Channel 9 shouldn't have let him go on air as drunk as he was but they did and he made our club look like an undisciplined rabble.
We'd already publicly given him a final warning so we had no choice but to sack him.
The saddest thing to come of it is that we found someone stupid enough to pay a decent price for him and squandered it on Kane Lucas.
I reckon we would have won a flag with Fevola between 09 and 11.
Pyke had a lot more ability than Robinson has though, so did Didak.
If I recall correctly Malthouse even admitted at the time that if it were two rookies rather than Didak and Shaw the outcome would have been different.
We got rid of a champion full forward for a lack of discipline but I supported the club's decision at the time and still do.
Forget Robinson.
The bloke has done the best number on over emotional Carlton folk that he has the reputation of having been able to walk on water.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/M/Mitch_Robinson.html
Hes more solid but unspectacular, and whilst we could use a solid footballer, he had his problems to go with it.
When you think Mitch Robinson, automatically think of Dan Connors. In a sliding doors situation, that could have been Mitch.
I reckon we would have won a flag with Fevola between 09 and 11.
2011 (our best chance) - we got 154 goals out of Walks, Betts & Garlett......would we have got this with a Fev lead forward line ?
We were robbed against the Eagles & cost us a Prelim spot without Fev, we'll never know what difference he might have made.
I reckon we would have won a flag with Fevola between 09 and 11.
I don't.
2011 (our best chance) - we got 154 goals out of Walks, Betts & Garlett......would we have got this with a Fev lead forward line ?
We were robbed against the Eagles & cost us a Prelim spot without Fev, we'll never know what difference he might have made.
Sad part is we might not get that many goals all year for the team this year, I pine for the days when we know what goals were
I don't.
He kicked 99 goals in 08 and 89 in 09, is a 2x Coleman Medallist and 3x AA. And we were playing Setanta and Thornton as KP forwards during 2010/2011.
Nothing more to say.
Forget Robinson.
The bloke has done the best number on over emotional Carlton folk that he has the reputation of having been able to walk on water.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/M/Mitch_Robinson.html
Hes more solid but unspectacular, and whilst we could use a solid footballer, he had his problems to go with it.
When you think Mitch Robinson, automatically think of Dan Connors. In a sliding doors situation, that could have been Mitch.
So you think Robinson's behavior is analogous or equivalent to someone who glassed a bystander in what courts found to be an unprovoked attack?
Further, when did Connors win an AFL B&F?
You might be happy to see him go, you might be bitter that he left, or perhaps all of the above at one time or another, but the Lions clearly have the last laugh!
Obviously we cannot debate a whole career or potential, but for example which player currently on our list would when giving away height, reach and experience nullify a Dustin Fletcher type, is there anyone up to the task?
He kicked 99 goals in 08 and 89 in 09, is a 2x Coleman Medallist and 3x AA. And we were playing Setanta and Thornton as KP forwards during 2010/2011.
Nothing more to say.
I get that, but it doesn't translate into a Premiership for a club that didn't even play in a Preliminary final.
It's all opinion anyway.
So you think Robinson's behavior is analogous or equivalent to someone who glassed a bystander in what courts found to be an unprovoked attack?
Further, when did Connors win an AFL B&F?
You might be happy to see him go, you might be bitter that he left, or perhaps all of the above at one time or another, but the Lions clearly have the last laugh!
Obviously we cannot debate a whole career or potential, but for example which player currently on our list would when giving away height, reach and experience nullify a Dustin Fletcher type, is there anyone up to the task?
No, I think the situations both found themselves were analogous regarding their tenures at their football club, and both ended up being sacked. What they did wrong is besides the point.
Now the much fancied Robinson had a stellar game against the competitions current whipping boys, where he did SFA to record 12 disposals, 1 goal and 5 tackles.
Hes had a few handy seasons in his 10 year AFL career. But he has largely been an also ran even if he is a big bodied also ran who can hurt the opposition without a possession. The stats actually show, he wasnt as good as anyone thinks he was.
I get that, but it doesn't translate into a Premiership for a club that didn't even play in a Preliminary final.
It's all opinion anyway.
We lost the finals in 09, 10, and 11 by 7, 5 and 3 points respectively. All played interstate. You don't reckon Fev is worth a goal a game ?
We lost the finals in 09, 10, and 11 by 7, 5 and 3 points respectively. All played interstate. You don't reckon Fev is worth a goal a game ?
Fev might have been, but to play Fev odds are we move someone else OUT of the forward line, AND we don't get the change in team ethic that we got by ousting him.
There are many layers to this change than 1 out 1 in = premiership.
There's defensive pressure, goal assists, and even team structure and balance, without the psychological factor of sacking a star player and what that does to a group in terms of both polarising and galvanising them.
You don't sack Fev, and chances are we end up in a similar scenario we ended up in with him.
Its like saying that had we played Yarran instead of Davies we would have won. He might have leaked a tonne more goals, or disjointed our backline in a way that further added to our loss against West Coast/Sydney.
Either way, we can't know. The chances are that the results wouldnt have changed dramatically for various reasons, and we were no closer to a flag then than we were in 2011.
We lost the finals in 09, 10, and 11 by 7, 5 and 3 points respectively. All played interstate. You don't reckon Fev is worth a goal a game ?
You can't take a few games in isolation, if he hadn't been sacked the whole dynamic of the team would have been different and we might not have played in any of those finals, it's certain that our results would have been different for better or worse.
I think that Fevola was a toxic influence and that we were better off without him so you and I can't agree on this one.
Fev might have been, but to play Fev odds are we move someone else OUT of the forward line, AND we don't get the change in team ethic that we got by ousting him.
There are many layers to this change than 1 out 1 in = premiership.
There's defensive pressure, goal assists, and even team structure and balance, without the psychological factor of sacking a star player and what that does to a group in terms of both polarising and galvanising them.
You don't sack Fev, and chances are we end up in a similar scenario we ended up in with him.
Its like saying that had we played Yarran instead of Davies we would have won. He might have leaked a tonne more goals, or disjointed our backline in a way that further added to our loss against West Coast/Sydney.
Either way, we can't know. The chances are that the results wouldnt have changed dramatically for various reasons, and we were no closer to a flag then than we were in 2011.
Yes we would have moved Setanta and Thornton out of the forward line. A big win if you ask me.
I don't deny that it's all speculation - hence the existence of the forum.
Yes we would have moved Setanta and Thornton out of the forward line. A big win if you ask me.
I don't deny that it's all speculation - hence the existence of the forum.
It's like arguing that had Ratten stayed things wouldn't have been like this.
It's impossible to know what knock on effect some decisions may or may not have had.
You can't take a few games in isolation, if he hadn't been sacked the whole dynamic of the team would have been different and we might not have played in any of those finals, it's certain that our results would have been different for better or worse.
I think that Fevola was a toxic influence and that we were better off without him so you and I can't agree on this one.
Apart from the Lara Bingle episode, which was poor IMO, most of Fev's harm was to himself. I don't think he was toxic, but he was certainly immature and basically a big baby.
Starting with the 03 season, he never kicked less than 49 goals in a season. If that isn't handy, I don't know what is.
It's like arguing that had Ratten stayed things wouldn't have been like this.
It's impossible to know what knock on effect some decisions may or may not have had.
No doubt.
Hes had a few handy seasons in his 10 year AFL career. But he has largely been an also ran even if he is a big bodied also ran who can hurt the opposition without a possession. The stats actually show, he wasnt as good as anyone thinks he was.
Is that realistic and reasonable?
Robinson won an AFL B&F 2015, finished 2nd in 2016 B&F, finished 7th and 9th on the John Nicholls medal while at our club, and is a 100 game player for us. He was also selected to represent his country in International Rules in 2011.
A lot of average AFL players would be very happy with that record!
Starting with the 03 season, he never kicked less than 49 goals in a season. If that isn't handy, I don't know what is.
Yes, it's hard to justify an attempt to downplay Fev's influence on the field by discussing his foibles off-field.
Fans best keep in mind that after that "Final Straw", McGuire's Pies, Brayshaw's Norp and Lyon's Dees all made inquiries about Fevola when it was clear his time was done at Carlton!
Apart from the Lara Bingle episode, which was poor IMO, most of Fev's harm was to himself. I don't think he was toxic, but he was certainly immature and basically a big baby.
Starting with the 03 season, he never kicked less than 49 goals in a season. If that isn't handy, I don't know what is.
I've never said that he lacked ability, in fact my post which kicked this discussion off described him as a champion full forwsrd.
His weakness was his almost total lack of self discipline, which to its discredit the club tolerated for far too long.
Pagan wanted him dropped the week that he took his boots off on the bench but was overruled by a weak kneed board, which effectively gave him carte blanche and destroyed the authority of the senior coach.
Some would say that it's been downhill ever since.
He should have been shown the door years before he was in my opinion.
Yes, it's hard to justify an attempt to downplay Fev's influence on the field by discussing his foibles off-field.
Fans best keep in mind that after that "Final Straw", McGuire's Pies, Brayshaw's Norp and Lyon's Dees all made inquiries about Fevola when it was clear his time was done at Carlton!
Media beat up, Voss was our only hope of getting a brass razoo for him.
Media beat up, Voss was our only hope of getting a brass razoo for him.
Fevola reported he knocked back a better offer from the Pies because he needed to get away from his situation.
How did we get here on to Fev on the Post Game?
I've never said that he lacked ability, in fact my post which kicked this discussion off described him as a champion full forwsrd.
His weakness was his almost total lack of self discipline, which to its discredit the club tolerated for far too long.
Pagan wanted him dropped the week that he took his boots off on the bench but was overruled by a weak kneed board, which effectively gave him carte blanche and destroyed the authority of the senior coach.
Some would say that it's been downhill ever since.
He should have been shown the door years before he was in my opinion.
Fevola is an old school, all or nothing player. You either take the good with the bad, or you don't.
Very interesting read which I only just discovered.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/there-is-more-to-brendan-fevola-than-newspaper-headlines/news-story/74adbbb3935bc7347620a1a00c22c7d5?sv=5a599355218514a61e69900d7083601e
Fevola reported he knocked back a better offer from the Pies because he needed to get away from his situation.
Well that worked out well for him I must say.
How did we get here on to Fev on the Post Game?
That blue4life, you need to watch him - a real larrikin.
How did we get here on to Fev on the Post Game?
Just going over old times, what more is there to say about an 11 goal hiding from Brisbane after all?
That blue4life, you need to watch him - a real larrikin.
Masochist more like.
PaulP, on far more than one occasion I've seen Fev at VFL games, he spends most of his time kicking the footy with kids while many of his peers brush them aside! The same at low level suburban cricket matches!
But around adults he has always been easily led, yet he takes responsibility for his actions while those who often triggered or introduced him to trouble hide in the shadows! I don't need to name names, I don't have to because you know many of them, their past and their character or lack of it precedes them, and he is not the only one they have stitched up! Ask the cabby basher!
Masochist more like.
I know the feeling.
How did we get here on to Fev on the Post Game?
A welcome distraction perhaps...we have drifted off-topic but I think it's all been said.
If anyone would like to pull it back to the game that's fine.
Just on Fevola...everything I've seen recently has indicated he's still Carlton through and through.
One of his strengths has always been his interaction with younger folks.
One of our weaknesses at the moment is younger supporters wavering due to our lack of success.
Could we find a role for him as a youth ambassador for the club.
It may not have a great impact but we need to be making every effort to halt the drift or we'll lose a generation of supporters.
Fev's Army ;)
PaulP, on far more than one occasion I've seen Fev at VFL games, he spends most of his time kicking the footy with kids while many of his peers brush them aside! The same at lo level suburban cricket matches!
But around adults he has always been easily led, yet he takes responsibility for his actions while those who often triggered or introduced him to trouble hide in the shadows! I don't need to name names, I don't have to because you know many of them, their past and their character or lack thereof it precedes them!
A bloke I know had a share in a racehorse with him and said he was a top bloke.
I was at a pub once for a Christmas break up, who should walk in carrying half a dozen stubbies but Fev.
He took a seat at a very long table which had obviously been reserved and about 20 minutes later other Carlton footballers started sitting down as well, it turned out that the club had its Christmas party there.
Fev had necked two stubbies before anyone else had arrived, we left about 3 o'clock and I shudder to think how he ended up.
Is that realistic and reasonable?
Robinson won an AFL B&F 2015, finished 2nd in 2016 B&F, finished 7th and 9th on the John Nicholls medal while at our club, and is a 100 game player for us. He was also selected to represent his country in International Rules in 2011.
A lot of average AFL players would be very happy with that record!
Whilst we are light on for average, we need blokes who aren't stars setting good standards. Robinson may have done so onfield, but you cannot argue that off field he did, otherwise the leadership group wouldn't have green lit an example being made.
Robinson has been in the AFL for 10 years, at two clubs. One of which has been firmly rooted to the bottom of the ladder during his time there (and now he is having limited impact as they are getting better) and the other he was sacked from as they slid from a top 8 side to the bottom 10. He was handy, but you don't put up with dishonesty from handy. On this same converstation, Fevola got more chances because he was good. He got sacked eventually. Robinson was here for that. What lesson did he learn?
without raking over old ground too much further, Chris Judd and Dale Thomas took Cripps under their wing and he went along obligingly and has become captain material. Cripps has done so with Fisher. Did Mitch ever do this with anyone and before we continue, lets not forget that he was part of a pack led by Eddie Betts, including Jeff Garlett (cant get a game at Melbourne due to playing too much one way footy), Chris Yarran (retired with issues) and Kane Lucas (retired lack of opportunity for an outside runner with no defensive side to him).
Whilst we are light on for average, we need blokes who aren't stars setting good standards. Robinson may have done so onfield, but you cannot argue that off field he did, otherwise the leadership group wouldn't have green lit an example being made.
Robinson has been in the AFL for 10 years, at two clubs. One of which has been firmly rooted to the bottom of the ladder during his time there (and now he is having limited impact as they are getting better) and the other he was sacked from as they slid from a top 8 side to the bottom 10. He was handy, but you don't put up with dishonesty from handy. On this same converstation, Fevola got more chances because he was good. He got sacked eventually. Robinson was here for that. What lesson did he learn?
without raking over old ground too much further, Chris Judd and Dale Thomas took Cripps under their wing and he went along obligingly and has become captain material. Cripps has done so with Fisher. Did Mitch ever do this with anyone and before we continue, lets not forget that he was part of a pack led by Eddie Betts, including Jeff Garlett (cant get a game at Melbourne due to playing too much one way footy), Chris Yarran (retired with issues) and Kane Lucas (retired lack of opportunity for an outside runner with no defensive side to him).
Wow, I just do not know how to respond to that! :o
Moving Robbo on was a mistake IMO...we should have readjusted his contract to make sure he stayed on track.....Martin Pike was a serial pisshead off the field but Brisbane had him on one year deals tied to performance and behaviour. He didnt like it but it worked.....
Moving Robbo on was a mistake IMO...we should have readjusted his contract to make sure he stayed on track.....Martin Pike was a serial pisshead off the field but Brisbane had him on one year deals tied to performance and behaviour. He didnt like it but it worked.....
Pyke was a miles better player than Robbo, he was worth the effort.
Pyke was a miles better player than Robbo, he was worth the effort.
So then the rules are not all equal, who it is really matters.
Does that extend to the relationship between clubs and the AFL?
Pyke was a miles better player than Robbo, he was worth the effort.
Sorry B4L but its Pike not Pyke...... ;)
Pyke was a miles better player than Robbo, he was worth the effort.
Different roles entirely. A mile better? I doubt it...
Different roles entirely. A mile better? I doubt it...
He was better fighter. ;D
So then the rules are not all equal, who it is really matters.
Does that extend to the relationship between clubs and the AFL?
Definitely, and to life in general.
Sorry B4L but its Pike not Pyke...... ;)
Thanks EB, I won't go over and edit all of my mistakes but he'll be Mr Pike from now on. :D
Different roles entirely. A mile better? I doubt it...
Four Premiership medals says that he was.
Wow, I just do not know how to respond to that! :o
(https://joelmackenzie84.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/eddie.png)
High as kites the both of them during the season.
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/eddie-betts-discovered/
Have a look at the video. Remember, Betts has been on record regarding his approach to footy and taking taking life much more seriously at Adelaide.
I don't know what's true and what isn't and I will agree that we haven't behaved the right way with everyone, but I remember watching this video in 2013 and thinking to myself, that we have a group within a group here with only one solid citizen amongst them in Dennis Armfield.
We have made a significant attempt to change the culture at our footy club. When I look back at these decisions (selling the farm to get Judd, sacking Fev, Sacking Ratten, Letting Betts walk, recruiting Dale Thomas, letting go Laidler who's biggest sin was disagreeing with the coach, sacking Garlett, sacking Robinson) and I think of it from the perspective of a footy club trying to drag itself out of the mire it was stuck in, then they all make perfect sense and it even paints the picture of Mick NOT coaching just for his career.
Still we get too caught up in inidividual incidents to think about the big picture, and thats ok, but I think its time we stood by and pretending we knew less about running a footy club than we think we did, and we might end up with the right summation of what is going on for a change (which is another reason why I think Bolton is under no internal pressure, and any scrutiny on the club is external).
Mark Robinson really ripping into us this week, not a word about Essendon's season officially being ended. A team he said were premiership contenders.
We are sitting on one win, and had... well... THAT performance on the weekend.
We deserve to be belted by all and sundry in the media.
And I am one of hose who think we are treated unfairly by the media... Not this week.
Oh, is he ?.... Stifles yawn.... Just ignore him MBB and he'll just wander off for the next titbit... Like seagulls do when they realise they aren't going to get a chip.
Definitely, and to life in general.
Thanks EB, I won't go over and edit all of my mistakes but he'll be Mr Pike from now on. :D
No Problem B4L....I always spell Kreuzer wrongly and had trouble with Touhy as well. glad he got traded........ ;)
Been having trouble with Lukosius as well..maybe thats an omen :-X
No Problem B4L....I always spell Kreuzer wrongly and had trouble with Touhy as well. glad he got traded........ ;)
Been having trouble with Lukosius as well..maybe thats an omen :-X
I'm very much looking forward to seeing Lukosius in a Navy Blue jumper.