King and Maclure we're discussing Carlton's forward line on 360 last night
The talk centred around Mckay, McGovern, Charlie and Gibbons and their positioning.
The general discussion centred around the lack of someone with authority, on the field, giving directions.
Maclure said before him it had been Walls who passed the baton on to him...It went without saying that the role then fell to Kernahan
Fevola was a great forward but probably more of a "Get out of the way' guy than a General mustering the troops.
(That may be a bit harsh)
The discussion on 360 questioned who should be our general.
King suggested it should be Charlie Curnow who stepped up.
Maclure wasn't so sure....his choice ...Kade Simpson.
Simpson probably doesn't have a lot of time left...Is this a role he could step into while Curnow gains a bit more experience?
Is there someone else?
Just beat me to it (starting a forward line topic).
I actually liked what Sellers had to say - Simmo as the forward line General. King's suggestion of Charlie being the General on the forward line shows his lack of knowledge about Charlie... long time until, if ever, Charlie is a leader. Working flat out to take charge of himself at present.
Simpson is an excellent suggestion and would probably give him a new lease on life as well. Weitering seems ready to take the leadership mantle down back, closely followed by Jones
Another possibility is Thomas who is having a pretty solid start to the year and can also play forward.
Noticed him doing a fair bit of directing and talking to some of the young blokes at last weekend's game
Why can't it be McGovern? He's got more experience than our other forwards, and has played in a winning forward line at Adelaide
Why can't it be McGovern? He's got more experience than our other forwards, and has played in a winning forward line at Adelaide
I agree. Definitely not one of the oldies.
Why can't it be McGovern? He's got more experience than our other forwards, and has played in a winning forward line at Adelaide
I'm with you Jack...McGovern has had some success at the Crows working with some of the best and is more experienced, Simpson, Daisy etc are short term fixes only and not dedicated forwards.
McGovern also has a good relationship with forward coach David Teague(ex crows) and I think good be a good conduit to the other players in explaining Teagues methods.
The position requires experience,respect and authority.
If McGovern ticks those boxes fine....
Perhaps the thing that may concern me just a little is that he's been part of this lack of cohesion.
Having said that we're only 4 games in and he's still working out how the others operate.
My only concern with Brackets is that he's new and probably hasn't earned his stripes yet, plus we don't know whether he's a leadership kinda cat.
Like the Daisy suggestion.
We haven't really had a forward line general since Betts left.
McGovern is still learning the caper and getting to know our blokes so it may be a challenge for him.
I'd prefer to see Daisy as a permanent forward and with the responsibility of untangling Charlie, Harry and the Gov and ensuring that we have crumbers in place for the long bombs to Gibbons ;)
My only concern with Brackets is that he's new and probably hasn't earned his stripes yet, plus we don't know whether he's a leadership kinda cat.
Like the Daisy suggestion.
Brackets?
Brackets?
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-03-17/weird-footy-nicknames-so-why-do-they-call-gov-brackets
I like the idea of Simpson as well.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-03-17/weird-footy-nicknames-so-why-do-they-call-gov-brackets
Ta
Simpson in the forward line reeks of Curnow in the forward line. If Simmo should have retired 2 years ago (as I believe), I see no reason why a move to the forward line would change that.
NO DEAL !!
Simpson in the forward line reeks of Curnow in the forward line. If Simmo should have retired 2 years ago (as I believe), I see no reason why a move to the forward line would change that.
NO DEAL !!
I agree he shouldn't be playing but if he has to then the forward line is my preference.
I agree he shouldn't be playing but if he has to then the forward line is my preference.
I guess a mistake in the forward line doesn't cost you a goal. So from that point of view, it's fair enough. But it just seems to be a move to where he will be less risk, which is not a great way of building a team IMO.
Simpson plays well enough every week and he isnt exactly keeping a kid who has a bright future out.
It's not like hes like hodge who has probably played one year too many.
Simpson plays well enough every week and he isnt exactly keeping a kid who has a bright future out.
It's not like hes like hodge who has probably played one year too many.
when Willo comes knocking?
when Willo comes knocking?
Maybe Simmo wouldn't have played on this year if Willo or Doc had been fit? He's basically holding the fort.
when Willo comes knocking?
He hasn't kicked a ball for 18 months.
I'm not retiring a 300 gsmer for a third year player who hasn't played more than 10 games of football and hasn't fired a shot for two years.
I guess a mistake in the forward line doesn't cost you a goal. So from that point of view, it's fair enough. But it just seems to be a move to where he will be less risk, which is not a great way of building a team IMO.
I think the original suggestion from Principal LODS was more related to his leadership ability and obvious high regard and respect within the playing group. And this was brought about due to the obvious zero leadership there is in the forward line at present... just look at some of the footage from last week's game, running around like headless chooks not knowing what the flock to do!! We've got player leadership in the midfield and backline, but none up forward.
Being the forwardline coach at our club would be like trying to fill a wheelbarrow with cats.
He hasn't kicked a ball for 18 months.
I'm not retiring a 300 gsmer for a third year player who hasn't played more than 10 games of football and hasn't fired a shot for two years.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The premise was that Willo was fit and had become established. He isn't yet so in the meantime Simmo plays on this year.
Simmo doesn't play forward, never has.
My vote would be for daisy or even Murphy. Let them have it before a more obvious candidate presents themselves.
As for Charlie... Daisy referred to him as a reindeer. Gallops around in an unpredictable manner and you never know what he'll do next.
Simpson's knowledge of forward line craft would be minimal at best.
Simpson actually did play a bit of football at wing/ half forward early on.
He's kicked 136 goals
Only Murphy has more...
He would know a little bit about the link between the midfield and the forward line.
But thinking about it... Daisy would be my choice.
Simpson actually did play a bit of football at wing/ half forward early on.
He's kicked 136 goals
Only Murphy has more...
He would know a little bit about the link between the midfield and the forward line.
But thinking about it... Daisy would be my choice.
Actually, that is a fair point. I had no idea he kicked so many. But then checking the figures, he hasn't kicked a double digit total of goals since 2012, despite having played 20 or more games every season since. From 2006-2012 his seasonal tally was usually in the low to mid teens.
I just think we need to do better than Simpson if we really want to progress. This may be his final season, so I still don't see it as being a good idea. Just my 2 cents.
Actually, that is a fair point. I had no idea he kicked so many. But then checking the figures, he hasn't kicked a double digit total of goals since 2012, despite having played 20 or more games every season since. From 2006-2012 his seasonal tally was usually in the low to mid teens.
I just think we need to do better than Simpson if we really want to progress. This may be his final season, so I still don't see it as being a good idea. Just my 2 cents.
His goalkicking dried up when we moved him back....I think that was a Malthouse initiative from memory.
His goalkicking dried up when we moved him back....I think that was a Malthouse initiative from memory.
Yes, no doubt.
I just think we need to do better than Simpson if we really want to progress. This may be his final season, so I still don't see it as being a good idea. Just my 2 cents.
I think Simmo can help bridge the gap until Charlie, McGovern and McKay are synchronised, a year might well be enough!
I think Simmo can help bridge the gap until Charlie, McGovern and McKay are synchronised, a year might well be enough!
The more I think about it, the more I can see that the pro Simpson crowd do have a point. I can see the merits, but I'd only give it a few weeks as a trial run. If they're still unco, then I don't think it will work. If it is successful, then part of his remit should be to groom McGovern as his successor.
Actually I don't see the point.
Why put Simpson down there to lead the forwards for 5 mins until he retires when we could use a forward who can grow into the role now? Aka McGovern??
It's not like we are going to do much this year, so its ideal learn on the job conditions really.
I don't know that it's a role in which you can just say... "You're it"
It has to be someone who the other forwards respect and are prepared to listen to.
If that's McGovern... OK
I think we're throwing up Daisy and Simpson because of their games experience and standing among the playing group.
It's a rare player like a Kernahan who can come in and immediately command that authority. If McGovern is that type of character it will show up fairly quickly.
Despite whats in the media, i'm sure there already is a guy in charge.
Could well be Gibbons for all we know.
It's a rare player like a Kernahan who can come in and immediately command that authority. If McGovern is that type of character it will show up fairly quickly.
I don't think it's just about a presence, it's about working to bring your team-mates into the game around you.
I think we've got the KPF positions covered, but they are not the type who create opportunities for others, they are more likely to be the focus of those created opportunities. Messiah types, who'll win the game for you off their own boot in the hot moment.
I think we need someone who has a primary focus of creating opportunities for others, knows how to get the football, plays in a disciplined manner, will be listened to by the beginners and commands enough senior respect to be honoured with disposals from players further up the field.
At the moment Gibbons seems to have become the defacto focus when all others are out of position, and it's not working we need another option.
Despite whats in the media, i'm sure there already is a guy in charge.
Could well be Gibbons for all we know.
As I understand it was Ed, I believe he publicly declared as much in one of the interviews after his better game, which is ironic given the thought of Simmo or Daisy having a crack.
I think we miss Ed in the midfield, far more than we would miss Daisy or Simmo off the HBF.
If there is already a 'General' he needs to get demoted because he's not doing a very good job.
Actually I don't see the point.
Why put Simpson down there to lead the forwards for 5 mins until he retires when we could use a forward who can grow into the role now? Aka McGovern??
It's not like we are going to do much this year, so its ideal learn on the job conditions really.
It's about transition and education. Simmo or Daisy up forward has a real chance of succeeding... and it only needs be for '5 minutes' as others will learn from him (Simmo or Daisy). The person to take over should impose himself (as Simmo and Daisy do down back) as a leader - clearly we have had no-one imposing himself as a leader up forward at this time... and it's costing us games, confidence and valuable experience.
And if Ed is/was the forward line leader... he failed.
It's about transition and education. Simmo or Daisy up forward has a real chance of succeeding... and it only needs be for '5 minutes' as others will learn from him (Simmo or Daisy). The person to take over should impose himself (as Simmo and Daisy do down back) as a leader - clearly we have had no-one imposing himself as a leader up forward at this time... and it's costing us games, confidence and valuable experience.
And if Ed is/was the forward line leader... he failed.
we need to let Simmo chase a kick and improve his output rather than rob from the position we are most hurting in (small rebounding defender) to put him up front.
we need to let Simmo chase a kick and improve his output rather than rob from the position we are most hurting in (small rebounding defender) to put him up front.
Yes, Simmo should be on the wing and a more natural and competent defender should take his halfback role.
He’s not a forward and never has been and he’s never been a defender either. In fact, his best defensive work was when he drifted back from the wing.