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Topic: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne (Read 18232 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #105 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Stanton (Midfield and Transition) and Barker (Midfield and Stoppages), I would have sacked them today. Plenty of good coaches sitting around off work due to Covid19.

Stanton wasnt renowned for his inside work and Barker wasnt a mid or ruckman and how he has survived all these years at the club remains a mystery.I'm sure he is a nice bloke but fair dinkum how many coaching roles can you have in an unsuccessful era and not
be culled along with all the other coaching nuffies we have had.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #106 –
Not sure where to put this so maybe mods can help out. There was a scratch match that was played by the players who did not play in the seniors. Does anyone know how that went down, best players, injuries?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #107 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Greetings LN, and happy New Year... 😁 😉

Many good points though I think you've confused me with someone else re 'mass reform'. Nuh, we're fundamentally on the right track and the 'comebacks' in our past two games were full of merit and fight and indicate we're, in the words of Renee Geyer, heading in the right direction.

However...

As I mentioned earlier our issues are fundamentally above the shoulders. Plus being 2 HARD mids short and some coaching intelligence for the midfield. Our midfield started like it was at training... bruise free/lacking mongrel, trying to finesse/easy way out and no initiative/boldness to respond to the Dees smart coaching in nullifying the Cripps influence. This is where one of our Directors, C Judd, should be exerting his expertise and experience... in terms of attitude and strategy, on the group and the midfield coaching staff (FFS, would someone please wrench Barker off the security of the CFC tit and bring in a midfield coach with smarts and a bit of shyte on his liver). And Stanton... really?

It was embarrassing how soft we started. How the hell does Murphy play as an inside mid and have 0 tackles... WTF? Even if we'd won, there'd be forceful questions being asked about our soft attitude and lack of smarts at game commencement.

I understand that we probably went for Lang when SOJ went down due to his speed... but fair-fkn-dinkum, the bloke fills his durps when he's confronted with physicality - we can't carry blokes like this (fair finisher but there's a reason the Pussycats were glad to see the @rs end of him) when you've got a bloke like Kennedy warming the pine who has a forward presence AND a physical presence. Blokes like Lang only add to 'softness' above the shoulders.

Greetings to you too Baggers and Mrs Baggers 👋
Long time between drinks for me. Daughter's wedding in our garden, 6wk European holiday to visit another daughter, were planned June- September. So I'd been keeping busy. Then COVID....
Must admit I took time to adjust to the new layout too (Must be a Carlton thing).

My reference to Baggers was not meant specific to you. Pardon my sloppy choice of words😣. Rather to those Bluebaggers on CSC seeking mass changes.

It was great though to see my tardiness resulting in you bobbing up to say hi 😉

I'm with those Bluebaggers like yourself, Kruddler and others who think we're on the right track. Although needing the hard inside mid/s to complete the puzzle.

Who knows maybe Gibbons, SOJ, Martin, Stocker or others help fill the gap somewhat in the short-term.

Kruddler made great points about the strong repeated comeback drive v the lay down and die attitude. The latter haunted me i know that 😫. Blues v Freo at MCG springs to mind 👻 Not sure if it was MM, Bolts, or Caretaker but it was beyond disgraceful.

Anyways hope you're healthy and happy
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #108 –
Quote from: blueboys_1 on
Not sure where to put this so maybe mods can help out. There was a scratch match that was played by the players who did not play in the seniors. Does anyone know how that went down, best players, injuries?

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/705406/reserves-wrap-practice-match-v-melbourne

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #109 –
Thanks PP.  :)
 

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PaulP on
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/705406/reserves-wrap-practice-match-v-melbourne
Thanks for that piece PP. The most interesting thing I took from the summary was that "the game was umpired by Carlton Head of Development Luke Power". F$#% me, people are asking why Stanton and Barker as our midfield coaches the bigger question should be, why not Power?? As I recall he was a reasonably good midfielder.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #112 –
Question for me is why some of these kids aren't given a chance now?  May as bl00dy well

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #113 –
Quote from: rocky on
Thanks for that piece PP. The most interesting thing I took from the summary was that "the game was umpired by Carlton Head of Development Luke Power". F$#% me, people are asking why Stanton and Barker as our midfield coaches the bigger question should be, why not Power?? As I recall he was a reasonably good midfielder.

No worries. IMO, I'd be wary of using playing history / quality as an indicator of coaching ability. It's an easy and tempting trap to fall into : great player = great coach. Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan, not great players by any means. Voss was an absolute gun. I'm not saying scrappers make the best coaches, just that good coaches and good players do not necessarily share or need the same qualities.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #116 –
Quote from: crashlander on
CARLTON            0.0    2.5    4.6    7.11 (53)
MELBOURNE       5.2    7.4    8.5     8.6 (54)

GOALS
Carlton: Cuningham, Lang, Casboult, McGovern, Gibbons, Betts, Cripps No multiple goal kickers!
Melbourne: Hunt 3, Neal-Bullen 2, Petracca 2, Fritsch

BEST
Carlton: Murphy, Docherty, Weitering, Petrevski-Seton, McGovern, Curnow
Melbourne: Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Salem, Langdon, Viney

INJURIES
Carlton: Newman (knee) A bad blow for us. Hopefully Williamson did OK in the scratch match.
Melbourne: Nil

Free kicks: 13 to us, 18 to them.
Tackles 41 to 50!
Hit outs: 26 to 34

I know I have been blowing my horn about getting a top ruckman now for years, but it would be nice if our match committee and recruiters could understand that.

Docherty and Murphy 24 possessions, Cripps and Curnow 21,
The statistics suggest that not enough was done by too many, even with a great 2nd half.
A question I have: did somebody play close and hard on Oliver? He doesn't like it. he isn't easy to tag, when his ruckman is dominating, but he can be smashed and he does retaliate. So, did we tag him?
Did we tag anyone?
Oliver was on Cripps....so Paddy had the job of manning him but we know it doesn't work that way as the skipper doesn't man other players and why smart clubs only man Cripps at the stoppages and then instruct their player to run off him. Works fine for us if they put a non skilled tagger only on Cripps but if its a quality player then you have them running loose all day.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #117 –
Melbourne kicked one goal in over two and a half quarters. Once we were able to put pressure on their mid-field and defence, they really had very little way of scoring. Once again if we had kicked 5:3 in the last quarter instead of 3:5, we would be having a completely different conversation. I have said this before and I will say it again, winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. I have believed for a long time that the problem at Carlton isn't the players, the coaches or the administration, and while these things are the creators of this, I believe it is the lack of a winning culture that is holding us back. This is what Elliot and his cronies really destroyed at Carlton.
I once read a story about a professional golfer who potential was very good and the expectations was that he would win a number of Majors, however he found he got more joy out of rolling a fifty meter putt to a couple of inches or just missing, than actually putting the ball into the hole. He got more out of the groans of the crowds than the cheers. He went on to have a successful career playing trick shots at tournaments rather than playing to win.
The question I ask is is the mentality at Carlton such that the players would rather have a heroic failure than commit to the contest from the start and be burdened by the pressure of victory and winning? Are the players happy to be five goals down at quarter time and virtually out of the match, so they can release themselves from the burden of the expectations of actually winning. It is easy to console yourself with the what if we started five minutes earlier, and rejoice in the last minute Murphy goal, than actually come to the contest ready to play and accept the notion that you are not really good enough if you lose.
There was not one side I saw on the weekend that if Carlton committed itself to the contest from the first bounce, that Carlton would not be capable of beating, but if you are not going to have a go in the first quarter you are not going to win, and as long as we are able to hide behind the facade of heroic failures, everything will be ok.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #118 –
Quote from: Blue Moon on
.................................................................................................
The question I ask is is the mentality at Carlton such that the players would rather have a heroic failure than commit to the contest from the start and be burdened by the pressure of victory and winning? Are the players happy to be five goals down at quarter time and virtually out of the match, so they can release themselves from the burden of the expectations of actually winning. It is easy to console yourself with the what if we started five minutes earlier, and rejoice in the last minute Murphy goal, than actually come to the contest ready to play and accept the notion that you are not really good enough if you lose.
There was not one side I saw on the weekend that if Carlton committed itself to the contest from the first bounce, that Carlton would not be capable of beating, but if you are not going to have a go in the first quarter you are not going to win, and as long as we are able to hide behind the facade of heroic failures, everything will be ok.

Interesting post BM. I'm not sure that you could say the players are happy in the true sense of that word. I think humans are creatures of habit, and I think once the close finishes and honourable losses become ingrained, they become habits, and as we know, habits, once established, are hard to break.

What is needed, much like a true religious conversion, is a transformative experience. An experience whereby the change from a bad habit to a good one, becomes a part of who you are, a part of your inner being. In that way, the new good habit becomes like breathing - it's not an option, it's just you. Whilst I'm no fan of oversimplification, you could look at something like the Hawks "line in the sand" game as perhaps a transformative experience, although I'm guessing there was more to it than that.

No amount of sprays, bakes, roasts or anything similar will ever come close to the inner motivation that gets people to a particular level. If it's not part of you, any other solution is simply a stop gap measure in my view.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #119 –
Loved the previous two posts from Pauly and Blue Moon. Good to see strong conversation about our players in terms of above the shoulders.

If you look over recent years there is an ingrained habit of performing poorly in one qtr... which has cost us so many games (and BB his career). For years the Tiggers had something similar. So it can be turned around... question is when and how long can we wait. Every game where we 'drop a qtr' compounds the problem.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17