In a match where we were expected to boost our percentage we lose to the bottom-placed Lions.
There will be some blood spent tonight !! >:D
Glad I didn't record it
Gutless losers!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
In a match where we were expected to boost our percentage we lose to the bottom-placed Lions.
There will be some blood spent tonight !! >:D
No early retirement for Lods after tonight's game - will be busier than ever.
Well, that was depressing. The umpiring may well have been crap, but that game should always have been at arms length, as Sheik said.
To the poster who rubbished me for picking Brisbane on the pregame thread I await your apology and to Jarrod Waite you can forget about any lengthy contract extension.....and to the umpires tonight you can look forward to a free drink from the Brisbane lads because you were bloody disgraceful.....
What a pack of pea-hearts! They thought they had it won. Relaxed. Game over!!!
oh my god. Mum - it's happened again.
Tell me how we can be raped and pilaged so obviously in front of everyone by the umpires. It is a joke. They obviously wanted thebears to win. Bullcrap
Passengers, fumblers & brain-fades, we had the full trifecta tonight !!
People give me a hard time when I'm critical of certain players but when we cannot beat cellar-dwellers like that can you really blame me ??
There were so many moments in that match where we looked like we were going to run away with it yet we couldn't sustain the pressure and the clean handling (yes, the greasy conditions didn't help).
Questionable umpiring decisions coupled with some just dumb errors (Waite & Yarran) made it an awful night all round.
To Blue Phantom, or whatever you call yourself, if you didn't expect us to win that game by a minimum 6 goals, then you are a fkn goose.
Yes, the umpiring was cr@p, but we should never have been in a position to allow umpiring decisions to dictate whether or not we win a game.
We came out in that first quarter asleep.
\Someone at that club, probably the coach, does not have the ability to get these players up for matches that they think they will win.
In fact, the only games they have won, are the ones where they came out all guns blazing, and even had an honourable loss to Port after throwing everything at them, and being under done because 22 of them had surgeries over Summer.
What they served up today, was disgraceful, and you can put on all the one eyed blinkered biased glasses that you want, and blame the umpires, the ground, the commentators and me, but at the end of the day, the 22 that run out on the ground are the ones responsible for that debacle .
NO ONE ELSE!!
Very poor, could have and should have won. Made a lot of errors which put us in this situation for sure.
But if you steer away from the two clubs and look at the umpiring as a whole it was bloody disgraceful. I really wanted us to win just so we can actually say this as a legitimate fact, rather then it being interpreted as a full blown out excuse.
Even with the umpires against us, it shouldnt have been left in their hands.
Who the fluck do these players think they are to "expect" to just roll up to win???
Says it all about our list really.
MM should take a lot of heat for this loss IMO. My reasons........
* Buckley clearly hadnt recovered from last weeks knock.
* We lose 2 runners in Walker and Armfield and bring in Carrazzo who by all reports struggled last week in the 2's.
*We CANNOT have Ellard, Carrazzo,McLean ALL in the same team. Way too slow.
* Why not thro Garlett in the guts when everyone else was spent? We finished pumping the ball long and with absolutely no run.
This club has not learnt a bloody thing in 10 f**ken years !. It is exactly why we have so many supporters who refuse to pay a membership because they know what this club gives them in return.......NADA!
Just so predictable, we are so soft, and every other club knows it. MM has changed very little in this regard
And they lost their main Ruckman in the second!
When Trent West went off we killed them in the hit outs and yet still lost the game. That because there's mids, like Rockliff, actually put their bodies on the line. Even that debutant O'Brien looked like a seasoned campaigner based on his effort.
Are skills have been rubbish all year but the fact that we didn't win this game by 10 goals against a side of school children and grandfather time himself is a disgrace. Yes, the umpiring in the last quarter was incompetent, but that doesn't excuse the first quarter where we didn't bother to turn up, or late in the second where we let them get two easy goals or the third where we had all the ball but couldn't put them away. Umpires didn't do that. We did.
Terrible umpiring. I don't normally agree that it change a game but...
Brown 'mark' and about three people get a bit of it, kills our momentum and the Lions kick another in a min (Goal 1)
Brown free for 'over the shoulder' (Goal 2)
Casboult touches the ball before it is across the line, no review??? (Goal 2 again)
Yarran mark or free for taking the legs, (Goal 3)
Rockliff acting from Waite contact. (goal 4)
Henderson takes a mark, not paid, minus a goal)
That is a five goal difference, disgraceful!
Very poor, could have and should have won. Made a lot of errors which put us in this situation for sure.
But if you steer away from the two clubs and look at the umpiring as a whole it was bloody disgraceful. I really wanted us to win just so we can actually say this as a legitimate fact, rather then it being interpreted as a full blown out excuse.
We got 6 more frees, but nothing that we deserved up front.
To the poster who rubbished me for picking Brisbane on the pregame thread I await your apology and to Jarrod Waite you can forget about any lengthy contract extension.....and to the umpires tonight you can look forward to a free drink from the Brisbane lads because you were bloody disgraceful.....
Easy tiger, it was in jest to you I'll always respect people's opinions. But we should have won that one easily >:(
I just want to make it clear. I agree that the umpiring was worse than disgraceful. Unfortunately, the standard of umpiring has fallen to it's worst level in my memory. But all teams have to put up with it.
So what you need to do to as much as possible to avoid those fwits and their disgraceful decisions, is to make sure that when you play a team Interstate, and you know that the crowd will be 90% for them, and that those umpiring idiots are influenced by the crowd, you make sure that you are too far in front for their decisions to affect the outcome.
Very poor, could have and should have won. Made a lot of errors which put us in this situation for sure.
But if you steer away from the two clubs and look at the umpiring as a whole it was bloody disgraceful. I really wanted us to win just so we can actually say this as a legitimate fact, rather then it being interpreted as a full blown out excuse.
We got 6 more frees, but nothing that we deserved up front.
True but numbers can lie. From an unbiased prospective how many of those frees are actually frees?
- don't want to go off topic but it's something not many people think about ( not having a crack at u)
I don't think this current group will ever have that moment when they say "enough is enough" and pull their finger out for a full game. They have a 'close enough is good enough' attitude & culture that Malthouse is slowly eradicating as he keeps turning over the players.
Another 9-10 players will be flipped off at season's end and replaced by people handpicked by MM, we will then see a change in attitude and attack on the game.
I agree. It's where and when they're paid that's more important.
When Trent West went off we killed them in the hit outs and yet still lost the game. That because there's mids, like Rockliff, actually put their bodies on the line. Even that debutant O'Brien looked like a seasoned campaigner based on his effort.
Are skills have been rubbish all year but the fact that we didn't win this game by 10 goals against a side of school children and grandfather time himself is a disgrace. Yes, the umpiring in the last quarter was incompetent, but that doesn't excuse the first quarter where we didn't bother to turn up, or late in the second where we let them get two easy goals or the third where we had all the ball but couldn't put them away. Umpires didn't do that. We did.
Well said Mondy.
I trully wonder if Warnock actually spoke to his mid-frielders and directed them to where he was going to hit the ball. Bignic used to tell gaggs, It's going over there, and that's where it went.
I lost count of the number of times that Robbie tapped the ball out beautifully, to the opposition.
I don't think this current group will ever have that moment when they say "enough is enough" and pull their finger out for a full game. They have a 'close enough is good enough' attitude & culture that Malthouse is slowly eradicating as he keeps turning over the players.
Another 9-10 players will be flipped off at season's end and replaced by people handpicked by MM, we will then see a change in attitude and attack on the game.
Definitely. We must persist. It will take 3 or 4 drafts to get the right mix.
I don't think this current group will ever have that moment when they say "enough is enough" and pull their finger out for a full game. They have a 'close enough is good enough' attitude & culture that Malthouse is slowly eradicating as he keeps turning over the players.
Another 9-10 players will be flipped off at season's end and replaced by people handpicked by MM, we will then see a change in attitude and attack on the game.
Totally agree Sheik
fk the umpires, they hunted the ball better - we butchered the ball when it mattered, the turnovers destroyed us.
waite as usual - fkwit right on que
That must be the worst loss under MMs tenure.
There must be blood letting now. No-one can hide from how woeful that effort was. Umpires performed as badly as we did but that should not be seen as any form of reason or excuse for this loss. We were beaten by the bottom side. Handed a lesson about composure and attitude by the bottom side. Humiliated by the bottom side.
So now we've really been exposed. And will be laughed at by the football world - deservedly so.
Everyone was elsewhere when the game started so singling out individuals as scapegoats won't cut the mustard. We sent a group out to play this evening who, for whatever reason, did not have their attitudes right.
But some individuals will come under severe scrutiny and although I don't blame them for our loss I do blame them for letting down their team mates and showing a terrible disregard for the discipline that is required to be a quality outfit. Not only will Waite not get a contract renewal, he'll be lucky to play another game this year. A couple other undisciplined acts should also received severe repercussions.
To the poster who rubbished me for picking Brisbane on the pregame thread I await your apology and to Jarrod Waite you can forget about any lengthy contract extension.....and to the umpires tonight you can look forward to a free drink from the Brisbane lads because you were bloody disgraceful.....
Easy tiger, it was in jest to you I'll always respect people's opinions. But we should have won that one easily >:(
Agree we should have won but timing is everything......they had the rest, we had a hard game vs the Crows in which we played crape but they were just worse than us.
They had some good players back and we had Carrazzo and Robbo who were both undercooked and not and it was at the Lions home ground....
Just testing you too Goat..... ;)
I don't think this current group will ever have that moment when they say "enough is enough" and pull their finger out for a full game. They have a 'close enough is good enough' attitude & culture that Malthouse is slowly eradicating as he keeps turning over the players.
Another 9-10 players will be flipped off at season's end and replaced by people handpicked by MM, we will then see a change in attitude and attack on the game.
Does that include Gibbs?
I think Carrots can consider his papers stamped.
its a perilous situation - MM is playing for a contract extension with a list that is simply not up to scratch
To the poster who rubbished me for picking Brisbane on the pregame thread I await your apology and to Jarrod Waite you can forget about any lengthy contract extension.....and to the umpires tonight you can look forward to a free drink from the Brisbane lads because you were bloody disgraceful.....
Easy tiger, it was in jest to you I'll always respect people's opinions. But we should have won that one easily >:(
Agree we should have won but timing is everything......they had the rest, we had a hard game vs the Crows in which we played crape but they were just worse than us.
They had some good players back and we had Carrazzo and Robbo who were both undercooked and not and it was at the Lions home ground....
Just testing you too Goat..... ;)
Yeah, not sure that Carrazzo was ready.
Robbo had a crack though.
UMPIRING: Wayne Campbell hang your head in shame! What your boys dished up in the last quarter was an absolute disgrace.
CFC: MM, the rest of the coaching group and the whole playing group can hang their heads in shame! What you dished up was abysmal. You could tell the players didn't have their heads screwed on from the first bounce. Skill errors, turnovers and poor kicking saw us come undone (yet again). Every time we play Brisbane they run rampant through the middle of the ground - you'd think we'd have learnt by now! We had the chance to win but blew it.
Can't find too much positive about the way we played. Wish I could say the end result was a shock but unfortunately it wasn't >:(
The umpiring was a disgrace...but umpiring's been a disgrace for 100 years ( I know cause my Grandfather went to court for abusing an umpire {called him a "skunk" and a "mongrel"} and got fined.)
That was a game we should have won...it shouldn't have been close.
But we have a team of undisciplined individuals who play as "individuals".
On the occasional occasions when they work together as a "team" they can look a million dollars, it's why I don't completely accept the list is no good argument... but too often too much is left to too few.
But that's been the case for most of the last decade.
I don't think this current group will ever have that moment when they say "enough is enough" and pull their finger out for a full game. They have a 'close enough is good enough' attitude & culture that Malthouse is slowly eradicating as he keeps turning over the players.
Another 9-10 players will be flipped off at season's end and replaced by people hand picked by MM, we will then see a change in attitude and attack on the game.
When you think about it, Murphy number one pick, tried hard, but his delivery was terrible and he doesn't win a game for us like a Sellwood or a Hodge.
Gibbs, number 1 pick, may as well not have turned up.
Yarran number 6 pick, tried hard, but as always in the last few minutes of a game, when he has an open goal in front of him, missed when it counted.
Waite, a complete idiot. He's a much better player than his dad God bless his Soul, ever was, but he doesn't have the brains that his old man had in his little finger.
Lucas number 9 pick, I think he was, fkd completely.
Carazzo is GONE and should not play any more.
Rowe, isn't good enough. He's not an attacking defender when he does get the ball, and more often than not if he is clear, kicks it to the opposition.
Zac, wouldn't get a game in the top 6 teams. Mind you, Rowe wouldn't get one in the top 17.
We don't have the cattle, and the new Prez and board if they can stop fighting amongst themselves, have some tuff decisions to make.
I said in an earlier post on another thread a few months back, that I remember that we celebrated our 100th Anniversary by finishing 10th, and that I hoped history would not repeat.
Ah well ::) ::)
I'm sorry to write this BUT I am not watching another game of this pea hearted club.
My son who has been a supporter since he was two weeks (now eleven) jumped with joy when I said he could barrack for Hawthorn now if he wanted.
I am so frigging over this crape this continues to dish up, and they call themselves professional.
Don't get me started on those biased umpires.
They have, you have lost me.
SO FRIGGIN OVER IT, NO MORE.
well boys still the same spasmotic game plan i see even when we win we have been crap i dont know where we are heading with this bunch but it aint up the ladder but its ok we only play the cats next coming off a 110 point hiding gee cant wait to see what gutless effort this one will be....
Does that include Gibbs?
I think Carrots can consider his papers stamped.
Both of them are not part of the bigger picture IMO.
Anybody still wishing to debate the worthlessness of winning the taps?
garlett yarren gibbs we know they can play but why cant we get the best out of them??
Anybody still wishing to debate the worthlessness of winning the taps?
Thought between Laidley and Capuano they could tick over the midfield so that they work together, but that would be too much to ask.
Does that include Gibbs?
I think Carrots can consider his papers stamped.
Both of them are not part of the bigger picture IMO.
they're all from the same pichka
Anybody still wishing to debate the worthlessness of winning the taps?
Warnock certainly got his hand to the aggot a lot tonight but where did it go ?? At one point I saw him give the ball a double-fisted punch straight back over the boundary-line from a ball-in, how can you consider that constructive ruck-play ??
People were saying he tapped that one over the back to Garlett who ran through and goalled, I reckon he ran under it and missed it completely.
206 is a disappointing spud, he offers just enough to make sure you can stay disappointed!
He thinks getting 50 taps is all he has to do, but how many contested marks did he take tonight as a 206cm player? How many contested marks has he ever taken?
I tell you, zero, nought, nada, nothing, none, zilch, stuff all!
How many times since ratten as coach have we surprisingly lost to lower ranked sides?
We have a seriously flawed culture now...
Anybody still wishing to debate the worthlessness of winning the taps?
Would have lost by 10 goals without them.
Forget the umps in the last, that pathetic first quarter shows nothing has changed mentally with CFC players - they just assumed the job would get done rather than actually doing it!
Even with the umpires against us, it shouldnt have been left in their hands.
Who the fluck do these players think they are to "expect" to just roll up to win???
Says it all about our list really.
MM should take a lot of heat for this loss IMO. My reasons........
* Buckley clearly hadnt recovered from last weeks knock.
* We lose 2 runners in Walker and Armfield and bring in Carrazzo who by all reports struggled last week in the 2's.
*We CANNOT have Ellard, Carrazzo,McLean ALL in the same team. Way too slow.
* Why not thro Garlett in the guts when everyone else was spent? We finished pumping the ball long and with absolutely no run.
This club has not learnt a bloody thing in 10 f**ken years !. It is exactly why we have so many supporters who refuse to pay a membership because they know what this club gives them in return.......NADA!
If we are good enough, the Umpires won't make a difference. That they did make a significant difference, from the sound of things, tells a lot about us.
I didn't see any of the game, but from the stats it does look as though Buckley wasn't 100%. He had less effect than Ellard who didn't last half a game. That Waite was less effective than Ellard as well was terrible.
I wouldn't have played Carrots. He needed a few weeks in the VFL to get back into form, not 2/3 of a game. If he had to play, I would have had him as emergency.
I would not play Judd next week: a lesson that looks pretty clear.
Pace: having 3 slow mids is a structural weakness we must address. We were better last week with the pace of Armfield and Walker. Granted that another slowish mid and tagger in Curnow is not far away (hopefully also starting the VFL), we have to consider what that does to our midfield's run.
We do need to turn over our list, that is for certain.
Anybody still wishing to debate the worthlessness of winning the taps?
Would have lost by 10 goals without them.
They are a deception, they hurt us more than they help because we expect them to be to our advantage and they are often not!
I think the Waite contract comments are a little premature. Without him and with white And Rowe futures not clear it would create another headache.
Dosnt excuse his actions tho.
Perhaps MM assumed a win too?
Even with the umpires against us, it shouldnt have been left in their hands.
Who the fluck do these players think they are to "expect" to just roll up to win???
Says it all about our list really.
MM should take a lot of heat for this loss IMO. My reasons........
* Buckley clearly hadnt recovered from last weeks knock.
* We lose 2 runners in Walker and Armfield and bring in Carrazzo who by all reports struggled last week in the 2's.
*We CANNOT have Ellard, Carrazzo,McLean ALL in the same team. Way too slow.
* Why not thro Garlett in the guts when everyone else was spent? We finished pumping the ball long and with absolutely no run.
This club has not learnt a bloody thing in 10 f**ken years !. It is exactly why we have so many supporters who refuse to pay a membership because they know what this club gives them in return.......NADA!
If we are good enough, the Umpires won't make a difference. That they did make a significant difference, from the sound of things, tells a lot about us.
I didn't see any of the game, but from the stats it does look as though Buckley wasn't 100%. He had less effect than Ellard who didn't last half a game. That Waite was less effective than Ellard as well was terrible.
I wouldn't have played Carrots. He needed a few weeks in the VFL to get back into form, not 2/3 of a game. If he had to play, I would have had him as emergency.
I would not play Judd next week: a lesson that looks pretty clear.
Pace: having 3 slow mids is a structural weakness we must address. We were better last week with the pace of Armfield and Walker. Granted that another slowish mid and tagger in Curnow is not far away (hopefully also starting the VFL), we have to consider what that does to our midfield's run.
We do need to turn over our list, that is for certain.
After seeing Carrots in last week's game for the NBs I was convinced he needed another week before returning.
But, regardless of personnel, tonight's effort was one of the worst for more than a year. I hope there are not pale attempts at excuses from the club. That loss said only bad things about our club... players, leaders, discipline, assistant coaches, Senior Coach, selection committee - everyone needs to look in the full length mirror and accept their part in what can only be described as a deplorable, limp, arrogant (disgregard to the opponent) and psychologically puny effort from our club. And this can only happen if you have too many puny people at the place.
Can't say I am surprised. Time after time this happens.
We are seriously going nowhere. It's like we are drowning and head keeps bobbing inand out of water.
Going by MM's 2 minute press conference I think he's over it.
Going by MM's 2 minute press conference I think he's over it.
One too many words there?
We do need to turn over our list, that is for certain.
We've been saying this for years, it's getting monotonous.
The problems at the club are cultural, no one can convince me that Brisbane had better players on the ground tonight.
We've never shaken off the ridiculous arrogance that Elliott fostered and promoted, it was only a few years ago that we were still talking about the Carlton swagger.
We need a reality check and we need to start getting down and dirty, I think Malthouse is the right bloke to get us there but he needs to move a few of the relics on and draw a line under the Carlton myths.
Perhaps MM assumed a win too?
I highly doubt it. MM would be angry, frustrated, bemused etc with our lack of effort, skill, discipline, desire and attitude to the contest out there tonight. And to think yo-yo's used to be cool.
Our list is deplorable and the current lack of leadership on the field is pathetic.
I'm actually not that upset.
I'll even give MM a break. I thought we were just cooked.
There was a boundary throw in with 5 minutes to go and out guys just couldnt get there.
Well I didn't see this game but I went to the supermarket and switched it off we were 16 points ahead and sounded like coasting to the finish line, came to the Brisbane club song. WTF?!?
Even Menzel's silky skills eluded him tonight.
Hardly noticed Gibbs, Buckley and Carazzo.
Rowe is doing well enough. I reckon he broke even with Brown, and Brown got some beautiful passes to his advantage. It's a shame that Sam isn't a dashing attacking defender like say, Dustin Fletcher has been.
Not cooked, just retarded and lazy.
Our Midfielders are rarely accountable enough over four quarters to keep the required pressure on the opposition.
I hate watching how soft we have become. >:(
I can't even see the light at the end of the tunnell here.
Club needs to make some hard decsions and quick
In a match where we were expected to boost our percentage we lose to the bottom-placed Lions.
There will be some blood spent tonight !! >:D
I didn't expect anything less than the result we got tonite, my footy tips reflect this. For me there was nothing surer. I could come up with a number of reasons why we lost. But the main one is simply we are Carlton.
If you:
- Are horribly out of form
- Are on the bottom of the ladder
- Haven't won a last qtr in 10 rounds
- Lose your one and only ruckman early in the game
- Have many inexperienced players
- Haven't won a game in Australia
- Have a captain who is on his last legs
Come up against Carlton and we can fix all of the above for you.
Nuff said other than I told you so, no rime, reason or logic, just I told you so.
#rollercoaster
Seriously, who didn't see this crap coming?
In a match where we were expected to boost our percentage we lose to the bottom-placed Lions.
There will be some blood spent tonight !! >:D
I didn't expect anything less than the result we got tonite, my footy tips reflect this. For me there was nothing surer. I could come up with a number of reasons why we lost. But the main one is simply we are Carlton.
If you:
- Are horribly out of form
- Are on the bottom of the ladder
- Haven't won a last qtr in 10 rounds
- Lose your one and only ruckman early in the game
- Have many inexperienced players
- Haven't won a game in Australia
- Have a captain who is on his last legs
Come up against Carlton and we can fix all of the above for you.
Nuff said other than I told you so, no rime, reason or logic, just I told you so.
#rollercoaster
Forgot to add if we are going for a third win in a row
We do need to turn over our list, that is for certain.
We've been saying this for years, it's getting monotonous.
The problems at the club are cultural, no one can convince me that Brisbane had better players on the ground tonight.
No, we trot out the same bunch of heartless spastics who can't kick week in week out. Seriously the misses in front of goal is embarrassing now. As for the number of passengers every week....
No, we trot out the same bunch of heartless spastics who can't kick week in week out. Seriously the misses in front of goal is embarrassing now. As for the number of passengers every week....
It's part of the culture, we don't believe and we don't instil belief in our young players, it's self perpetuating.
No, we trot out the same bunch of heartless spastics who can't kick week in week out. Seriously the misses in front of goal is embarrassing now. As for the number of passengers every week....
It's part of the culture, we don't believe and we don't instil belief in our young players, it's self perpetuating.
[/quote]
I also posted this link in the Sack Malthouse thread - it ties in to what you are saying b4l.
http://www.sportsfan.com.au/Home/VideoonDemand/tabid/947/contentid/649206/Default.aspx
Watched the first 15 mins, that was enough for me, had disaster written all over it....
My interest in this season is now officially over.....
If you want to see what Sticks and co. thought MM would bring to the club, look at what Roos is doing at the Dees. The last time the team showed any passion was the in the finals under Ratts, but then we were stiff with injuries and lack of depth at the same time. Our list has shown what they are capable of for some quarters, but they cannot do it for 4 quarters, week in , week out without belief in MM and the rest of the team. Tonight showed we have a long way to go.
Dafuq happened?
Seriously, who didn't see this crap coming?
Even pre game when Dwayne " The Rooster" Russell interviewed MM and made reference to our "winning" streak, it was quite apparent that MM is not blind to our reality. We lose to teams we shouldn't and that has been our reality for more than a decade now. Our culture is shot and we have become a reliable source for clubs that need a game to play them back into form. Sure we may win some decent clashes from time to time but our reality is we are a bottom 4 side based on our inconsistency and lack of killer instinct. I don't lay the blame at MM's feet, and while there has been many colossal failures by our recruiters I still believe that any player drafted to our club must be instilled with the philosophy that has seen this mighty club deliver 16 flags and that in turn must be reflected on field. What I'm seeing is more like Western Bulldogs ideology.
I don’t like losing. It is not the Carlton way – losing is for losers…. and I simply can’t stomach a side not having a fair dinkum go but this is a particularly bad loss that underlines everything that is wrong with this club. The problem is that until we accept where we are expect this kind of rubbish to continue indefinitely. All are at fault – the players and our much vaunted coach/MC. Everybody.
It is grossly unfair to single out individuals when the greater part of the playing group lack the decency and professionalism to “turn up to ready play” and also show an inconsistent work ethic within games. A simple question to highlight the issue… why is the likes of Gibbs either BOG or has no impact? Why such a disparity in effectiveness for an established player?
Fair dinkum we have some passengers… which we continue to play week after week. Yes there are a few missing but I guess that underlines just how weak our list if we must continue to play blokes who can’t give their best due to injury or a limited preparation.
As for the coach and MC (I include them in the same breath)… this game really sent mixed messages as to where the club is going. Players where clearly picked on reputation and past form as opposed to current form….to the detriment of the team. Meanwhile we have fully fit kids running around at the NB’s. Again it probably shows how thin our list is and the reality that we simply have no alternatives other than to continue playing the same limited bunch.
Was beating Brisbane soooo important in the scheme of things that we have to put this cobbled together side out on the park? Newsflash guys; we ain’t going to make the finals … this was the ideal game in which to play the likes of Graham and Johnson maybe even to try that lump Watson at CHF but instead we went after another win in another season that is going nowhere. Making the finals last year was probably the worst thing that could have happened to this club because it gave it a false sense of belief that everything was tracking as it should…another newsflash…it ain’t!
This club needs to accept that we aren’t within a bull’s roar of being challenger – we are rapidly going backwards – and needs to start thinking and planning about improving sooner rather than later or we are looking at decades in the wilderness.
Everybody.
It is grossly unfair to single out individuals when the greater part of the playing group lack the decency and professionalism to “turn up to ready play” and also show an inconsistent work ethic within games. A simple question to highlight the issue… why is the likes of Gibbs either BOG or has no impact? Why such a disparity in effectiveness for an established player?
That's the key as far as I'm concerned. This is not an untalented group of footballers.....but their intensity and application varies greatly from their best to their worst. Players drift in and out of the game.....have great quarters and then disappear. They'll attack the ball ferociously at one contest and then stand back and watch the next couple, thinking they've done enough.
It's that inconsistency that annoys me.
I'll be honest and say that I thought we were terrible in the first quarter yesterday but once we got on top in the second and kicked a few in a row I relaxed. I thought it was just a matter of playing out time.....in fact switched off, did a few other things while keeping an eye on the television. It wasn't until well into the last quarter that it even occurred to me that we wouldn't win. Maybe by not as much as I thought but a scrappy win would have been fine given the poor start.
Undisciplined acts and poor umpiring played their part but it should never have been close enough for those things to have an impact.
We have a huge problem and it's a lot more difficult to overcome than just cutting less skilled players.
Our problem is that some of our most skilled players are amongst our most inconsistent.
..and it's in this group that this "attitude" is most entrenched
On the other side some of our most committed are less skilled, or like Buckley still green.
I'm not sure how you break that generational problem because while the young are being influenced by the old, then the "old" attitudes will continue to be passed on.
Just had a look at that "mark" of Yarran's again.
Quite apart from whether it was a mark or not....... (as Mick pointed out in the presser Brown took his legs), the action of Brown in grabbing his legs in mid-air was reckless and dangerous...and should have been at least a free kick.
Yarran could have been seriously hurt.
As for the coach and MC (I include them in the same breath)… this game really sent mixed messages as to where the club is going. Players where clearly picked on reputation and past form as opposed to current form….to the detriment of the team. Meanwhile we have fully fit kids running around at the NB’s. Again it probably shows how thin our list is and the reality that we simply have no alternatives other than to continue playing the same limited bunch.
Was beating Brisbane soooo important in the scheme of things that we have to put this cobbled together side out on the park? Newsflash guys; we ain’t going to make the finals … this was the ideal game in which to play the likes of Graham and Johnson maybe even to try that lump Watson at CHF but instead we went after another win in another season that is going nowhere. Making the finals last year was probably the worst thing that could have happened to this club because it gave it a false sense of belief that everything was tracking as it should…another newsflash…it ain’t!
This club needs to accept that we aren’t within a bull’s roar of being challenger – we are rapidly going backwards – and needs to start thinking and planning about improving sooner rather than later or we are looking at decades in the wilderness.
I liked all of your post but especially this part. I don't see the likes of Rowe or White being part of the future but they're played because they offer a more consistent contest, that said they are battlers at best.
Just had a look at that "mark" of Yarran's again.
Quite apart from whether it was a mark or not....... (as Mick pointed out in the presser Brown took his legs), the action of Brown in grabbing his legs in mid-air was reckless and dangerous...and should have been at least a free kick.
Yarran could have been seriously hurt.
It was both a free kick AND a mark. He controlled the ball all the way to the ground, where the impact knocked the ball out. Same logic applied to the Robinson diving mark. Controlled it to the ground, where the impact knocked it out.
Marks every day of the year, except when there is a navy blue jumper playing brisbane on a saturday evening.
Just had a look at that "mark" of Yarran's again.
Quite apart from whether it was a mark or not....... (as Mick pointed out in the presser Brown took his legs), the action of Brown in grabbing his legs in mid-air was reckless and dangerous...and should have been at least a free kick.
Yarran could have been seriously hurt.
Brown is a protected species.
Three goals up well into the last quarter against the bottom side, that's the reality folks.
A shocking performance.
Just watching the presser, geez they let Mick off light, but I actually liked what he said, he was very frank but stopped short at pointing the finger or criticising the list. It's amazing how much easier it is to accept what he says when he delivers it in the right manner. That doesn't absolve him of the part he played in the loss but still, I was happy with the way he presented himself and I thought he at least did the club and it's supporters justice in that regard.
Just watching the presser, geez they let Mick off light, but I actually liked what he said, he was very frank but stopped short at pointing the finger or criticising the list. It's amazing how much easier it is to accept what he says when he delivers it in the right manner. That doesn't absolve him of the part he played in the loss but still, I was happy with the way he presented himself and I thought he at least did the club and it's supporters justice in that regard.
Agree with your comments.
There is no doubt, in my mind, anyway, that Mick knows exactly where this team stands and the cattle he has to deal with.
He was ready to explode last night, but kept himself in check.
Mick can and does everything he can to get those players to carry out instructions.
But for reasons that I can't fathom, they are a mentally weak team who when running onto the ground to start a game, always look like they just got out of bed. Sometimes, like last night, worse than other times.
I can't work out why, or whose fault it is.
Then when they do get on the ground, you have your usual suspects who don't put in. You can start with Gibbs, and go from there.
Players who won't put their bodies on the line for there team, can't exist in todays game.
That's why we need to trade Gibbs and hopefully get some decent draft picks of boys who have shown in the under 18's that they are prepared top risk life and limb to get the ball.
Why isn't Graham getting a game? Why wasn't he picked against Brisbane? He racks up possession in the VFL every week. I don't understand how David Ellard and Carrots get's a game and Graham misses out. What am I not seeing??
Why isn't Graham getting a game? Why wasn't he picked against Brisbane? He racks up possession in the VFL every week. I don't understand how David Ellard and Carrots get's a game and Graham misses out. What am I not seeing??
Carrots is gone. At his age, you can't recover from the calf muscle injury that he's got. Ellard could never run out a full game, but he's gone for a while now too, so I'm with you. Bring in Graham.
Just watching the presser, geez they let Mick off light, but I actually liked what he said, he was very frank but stopped short at pointing the finger or criticising the list. It's amazing how much easier it is to accept what he says when he delivers it in the right manner. That doesn't absolve him of the part he played in the loss but still, I was happy with the way he presented himself and I thought he at least did the club and it's supporters justice in that regard.
Agree with your comments.
There is no doubt, in my mind, anyway, that Mick knows exactly where this team stands and the cattle he has to deal with.
He was ready to explode last night, but kept himself in check.
Mick can and does everything he can to get those players to carry out instructions.
But for reasons that I can't fathom, they are a mentally weak team who when running onto the ground to start a game, always look like they just got out of bed. Sometimes, like last night, worse than other times.
I can't work out why, or whose fault it is.
Then when they do get on the ground, you have your usual suspects who don't put in. You can start with Gibbs, and go from there.
Players who won't put their bodies on the line for there team, can't exist in todays game.
That's why we need to trade Gibbs and hopefully get some decent draft picks of boys who have shown in the under 18's that they are prepared top risk life and limb to get the ball.
And there you have it. How often do we kick ahead in a game, then inexplicably relax and let the other mob back in? Gee, that really is a major issue with our blokes and has been for a long, long time.
I recall asking this questions a number of times over about the last 5+ years... when have we beaten a very good side in very good form?
I recall asking this questions a number of times over about the last 5+ years... when have we beaten a very good side in very good form?
That's an easy question to answer, if you accept the fact that we are a mediocre side.
Carlton supporters are no different to any other supporters in that they tend to over rate their own team and players.
I didn't watch the game (and probably won't bother with the replay) so I am relying on the ABC commentators' assessments.
Two factors stood out for me in their comments. The first is that our slow and predictable ball movement made it easier for the inexperienced Brisbane players to intercept and/or force stoppages. In contrast, Brisbane used the corridor and, because of lack of midfield pressure, created more opportunities for their forwards. The second factor is Brisbane's ability to run over us at the end of quarters or perhaps that should be our inability to run the game out until the siren goes?
The Lions made 6 changes, and against all AFL trends still beat us!
crap I "hate" my team. If they weren't such lazy b@stards with a poor work ethic they could've beaten Meblourne and Brisbane and been 6-4 with a game against a struggling Geelong to come.
But no, not Carlton. Too much like hard work.
Lost count of the amount of types the commentators said 'The Blues are out here if they can get the ball to (insert players name)' or 'The Blues should score here if they can get the ball over the top to (players name)'
We butchered the pass every single time!!!
crap I "hate" my team. If they weren't such lazy b@stards with a poor work ethic they could've beaten Meblourne and Brisbane and been 6-4 with a game against a struggling Geelong to come.
But no, not Carlton. Too much like hard work.
7-3 if we beat Richmond, which to me says we are not as bad as everyone thinks. Let's not forget we had Port on the ropes for three quarters.
Crap, I "hate" my team. If they weren't such lazy b@stards with a poor work ethic they could've beaten Melbourne and Brisbane and been 6-4 with a game against a struggling Geelong to come.
But no, not Carlton. Too much like hard work.
7-3 if we beat Richmond, which to me says we are not as bad as everyone thinks. Let's not forget we had Port on the ropes for three quarters.
Never have been. How many brilliant bursts of footy have we produced when we've come back from goals down. Think last round and EF last year when we were down and out. Don't lack ability, we lack, commitment, culture, work ethic and any form of proper attitude. I think that frustrates more than simply lacking the ability.
Never safe when 5 goals up, never out of it when 5 goals down.
Just had a look at that "mark" of Yarran's again.
Quite apart from whether it was a mark or not....... (as Mick pointed out in the presser Brown took his legs), the action of Brown in grabbing his legs in mid-air was reckless and dangerous...and should have been at least a free kick.
Yarran could have been seriously hurt.
It was both a free kick AND a mark. He controlled the ball all the way to the ground, where the impact knocked the ball out. Same logic applied to the Robinson diving mark. Controlled it to the ground, where the impact knocked it out.
Marks every day of the year, except when there is a navy blue jumper playing brisbane on a saturday evening.
I saw this incident on the TV at the gym this morning. I would have paid a free, but I am a Blue.
To be honest, Yazz should have held the bl**dy thing. Any number of times this year we have got our hands to the ball and not been paid. If we actually held the damn thing, it takes the idiots in white / green/ whatever out of the equation. Yazz holds that mark and we have a chance at Victory.
Then again, they may have kicked 4 goals in the last quarter, but I'm sure we had 3 shots after their last goal and managed none of them. Our kicking for goal is excremental. And not just from one or 2 players. Even our ex captain has become an ordinary kick at goal. We REALLY need to address this.
Basically, when it comes time to stand up, we can't seem to manage it. Yazz has been one of the worst offenders in recent times, but he has plenty of mates. I am not sure what to do to fix it either, but we just don't handle pressure well.
@Crash...
He did hold it.
All the way to the ground.
When you take a mark, you bring it to ground. When you take a mark 8 feet off the air, and hold it all the way to the ground, that is a mark.
The NFL has a rule, 'the ground cannot cause a fumble', i think it should be a rule here so there is no grey area.
Bit harsh on Yazz Crash if you're mid air and someone swipes your legs you're entitled to try and prepare for the hit on the ground. Unfortunately the ball spilled out.
Bit harsh on Yazz Crash if you're mid air and someone swipes your legs you're entitled to try and prepare for the hit on the ground. Unfortunately the ball spilled out.
That Yarran decision has be playing on my mind since it happened
It was either a mark or a free kick.... but the umpire called play on.
Really makes me feel that there was some kind of umpiring agenda last night to keep Brisbane semi relevant - but that is just the raging Conspiracy theorist in me.
Bit harsh on Yazz Crash if you're mid air and someone swipes your legs you're entitled to try and prepare for the hit on the ground. Unfortunately the ball spilled out.
That Yarran decision has be playing on my mind since it happened
It was either a mark or a free kick.... but the umpire called play on.
Really makes me feel that there was some kind of umpiring agenda last night to keep Brisbane semi relevant - but that is just the raging Conspiracy theorist in me.
Should we be in a position where umpiring can cost us a game against the bottom side?
Bit harsh on Yazz Crash if you're mid air and someone swipes your legs you're entitled to try and prepare for the hit on the ground. Unfortunately the ball spilled out.
That Yarran decision has be playing on my mind since it happened
It was either a mark or a free kick.... but the umpire called play on.
Really makes me feel that there was some kind of umpiring agenda last night to keep Brisbane semi relevant - but that is just the raging Conspiracy theorist in me.
Should we be in a position where umpiring can cost us a game against the bottom side?
A very fair question IOT. We should have been 5 or 6 goals up at that point.
I just hope Malthouse has made the decision that this group of players have embarrassed this club for the last time.
I really don't care who gets traded or delisted at seasons end. All I am sure of is that there needs to be major changes made to the list.
I am sick of this group of players and people should cease making excuses for them. No more excuses, it's time for action.
Normally, when a player is in the middle of a contract negotiation they play out of their backside to try and get the maximum pay increase they can.
Bryce Gibbs had 9 kicks, 9 handballs & 3 marks last night and I cannot remember one of them.
Am I the only one who didn't even think he played last night ??
Furthermore, I wouldn't be re-signing him now either, Free Agency at the end of the year IMO - goddam expensive passenger.
Normally, when a player is in the middle of a contract negotiation they play out of their backside to try and get the maximum pay increase they can.
Bryce Gibbs had 9 kicks, 9 handballs & 3 marks last night and I cannot remember one of them.
Am I the only one who didn't even think he played last night ??
Furthermore, I wouldn't be re-signing him now either, Free Agency at the end of the year IMO - goddam expensive passenger.
He was supposedly signing by this weekend ????
I just hope Malthouse has made the decision that this group of players have embarrassed this club for the last time.
I really don't care who gets traded or delisted at seasons end. All I am sure of is that there needs to be major changes made to the list.
I am sick of this group of players and people should cease making excuses for them. No more excuses, it's time for action.
Thank you, SpannerMan. Thank you.
To me last night's loss, as I have already said, was the worst under MMs tenure. Losing to the bottom side is beyond explanation or excuse. That loss had nothing to do with the weather, running out of legs, individual stuff-ups or umpiring - that is little stuff. That loss came down to culture/leadership and f*ck all else. The severe and embarrassing lack of culture & leadership. Big stuff like discipline, leadership, mongrel, accountability & effective aggott use seem to elude this group, consistently. We show glimpses of bona fide dominance - but so does just about every other f*cking club from time to time. Means f*ck all to be spasmodically brilliant. Ws & Ls is what it is about and what it takes to achieve that - with ruthless consistency and ruthless persistence.
I think MM now knows this which is why his media conference amounted to zero information.
I just hope Malthouse has made the decision that this group of players have embarrassed this club for the last time.
I really don't care who gets traded or delisted at seasons end. All I am sure of is that there needs to be major changes made to the list.
I am sick of this group of players and people should cease making excuses for them. No more excuses, it's time for action.
Thank you, SpannerMan. Thank you.
To me last night's loss, as I have already said, was the worst under MMs tenure. Losing to the bottom side is beyond explanation or excuse. That loss had nothing to do with the weather, running out of legs, individual stuff-ups or umpiring - that is little stuff. That loss came down to culture/leadership and f*ck all else. The severe and embarrassing lack of culture & leadership. Big stuff like discipline, leadership, mongrel, accountability & effective aggott use seem to elude this group, consistently. We show glimpses of bona fide dominance - but so does just about every other f*cking club from time to time. Means f*ck all to be spasmodically brilliant. Ws & Ls is what it is about and what it takes to achieve that - with ruthless consistency and ruthless persistence.
I think MM now knows this which is why his media conference amounted to zero information.
As I mentioned previously though Baggers the problem we have is...... some our most inconsistent in terms of attitude are our most talented and some of our less talented or younger group (Buckley etc) are the ones that put in.
So who do you cull?
Naturally you keep the youth... but where do you go from there
Three goals up well into the last quarter against the bottom side, that's the reality folks.
A shocking performance.
From quarter time to that point in time, we had out scored Brisbane by 44 points. Makes those last 4 goals hard to take.
Didn't see the game just the highlights. I personally would like to come to the defense of both Waite and Yarran. Both incidents hardly warranted a free kick let alone a 50. Seriously lets get a grip. Isn't there that staging report still going around. The one Waite got a reprimand for? Honestly if he gets cited for that how does Rockliff not even get mentioned in the same context. Not a smart thing to do by Waite but to basically orchestrate the change in the lead, and possibly the result of a game, that tight is just plain criminal. Jeez Hawthorn and Geelong give plenty of treatment like this out and hardly ever get penalised.
Still we were crape and we are a crap club going nowhere.
Bring on the next purge.
Message to the club. Please, please, please if your looking at someone to draft if they can't kick, can't run and can't put their body on the line then they can't play at the CFC.
I just hope Malthouse has made the decision that this group of players have embarrassed this club for the last time.
I really don't care who gets traded or delisted at seasons end. All I am sure of is that there needs to be major changes made to the list.
I am sick of this group of players and people should cease making excuses for them. No more excuses, it's time for action.
x 2
Didn't see the game just the highlights. I personally would like to come to the defense of both Waite and Yarran. Both incidents hardly warranted a free kick let alone a 50.
If Waite and Yarran gave away frees Rockliff should be suspended for eight weeks, but he didn't even give away a free from right in front of the umpire!
I just hope Malthouse has made the decision that this group of players have embarrassed this club for the last time.
I really don't care who gets traded or delisted at seasons end. All I am sure of is that there needs to be major changes made to the list.
I am sick of this group of players and people should cease making excuses for them. No more excuses, it's time for action.
Thank you, SpannerMan. Thank you.
To me last night's loss, as I have already said, was the worst under MMs tenure. Losing to the bottom side is beyond explanation or excuse. That loss had nothing to do with the weather, running out of legs, individual stuff-ups or umpiring - that is little stuff. That loss came down to culture/leadership and f*ck all else. The severe and embarrassing lack of culture & leadership. Big stuff like discipline, leadership, mongrel, accountability & effective aggott use seem to elude this group, consistently. We show glimpses of bona fide dominance - but so does just about every other f*cking club from time to time. Means f*ck all to be spasmodically brilliant. Ws & Ls is what it is about and what it takes to achieve that - with ruthless consistency and ruthless persistence.
I think MM now knows this which is why his media conference amounted to zero information.
As I mentioned previously though Baggers the problem we have is...... some our most inconsistent in terms of attitude are our most talented and some of our less talented or younger group (Buckley etc) are the ones that put in.
So who do you cull?
Naturally you keep the youth... but where do you go from there
Absolutely Principal LODS, absolutely. And this is what has me believing (maybe hoping) that MM is aware of this hence the calibre of blokes we recruited last year - a complete departure. Doc, Andre and even early indicators suggest Cripps, show that we are addressing our between the ears/sustained leadership weaknesses. PLUS... too many of our senior blokes went through those confidence sapping/undermining years and the scars remain! And that's your Murphys', Waites', Gibbs'... only Simmo seems to have emerged from that era 'intact'... maybe also Carrazzo. Sadly, from our older leaders some of our younger blokes seem to have caught the 'self-doubt/inconsistent/low-self esteem' bug from the experienced blokes - eg Yazz, Robbo, Menzel (where does he go for 2 quarters each game!!! When not wearing the vest), Jeffy, Meat, Zackary... for whatever reason, we sure do have too many blokes who just can't sustain. Introversion, to me, is only part of the problem.
So what do you do? Fortunately some will likely retire real soon and we will be forced to fill the breaches younger, mentally tougher, unscarred blokes. Have to be another strong cull at year's end. We might have to trade a Yazz or Gibbs for their good and our own. Either of those two would likely flourish in a highly successful environment. Just thoughts.
Why isn't Graham getting a game? Why wasn't he picked against Brisbane? He racks up possession in the VFL every week. I don't understand how David Ellard and Carrots get's a game and Graham misses out. What am I not seeing??
if guys like graham are not getting games, that means they're crape
Cant get a game in this line up - theres not much hope for you (except Richmond)
Interesting parallel. Hawthorn get challenged by the 2nd bottom team today and manage to scrape through by 7 points. Highlights the difference between top team and also-rans.
Interesting parallel. Hawthorn get challenged by the 2nd bottom team today and manage to scrape through by 7 points. Highlights the difference between top team and also-rans.
Yeah, mind blowing result. We are not as good as hawthorn!
Why isn't Graham getting a game? Why wasn't he picked against Brisbane? He racks up possession in the VFL every week. I don't understand how David Ellard and Carrots get's a game and Graham misses out. What am I not seeing??
if guys like graham are not getting games, that means they're crape
Cant get a game in this line up - theres not much hope for you (except Richmond)
Or Sydney. ;)
Interesting parallel. Hawthorn get challenged by the 2nd bottom team today and manage to scrape through by 7 points. Highlights the difference between top team and also-rans.
Yeah, mind blowing result. We are not as good as hawthorn!
Yeah, well we're not even as good as Hawthorn missing Lake, Gibson, Mitchell, McEvoy, Rioli and Whitecross, but that wasn't my point. It was more about when they get challenged they respond and I expect them to win. When we get challenged we fold and that I also expect which is a sad indictment on our club.
I just hope Malthouse has made the decision that this group of players have embarrassed this club for the last time.
I really don't care who gets traded or delisted at seasons end. All I am sure of is that there needs to be major changes made to the list.
I am sick of this group of players and people should cease making excuses for them. No more excuses, it's time for action.
It gets that way doesn't it?
After dragging our sorry arses to games from 2002 to 2007 when a 4 goal loss felt like a win and we cheered the boys off, the days when we were a laughing stock and broke, when all you copped was ridicule but you still didn't miss a game because when your team is at it's lowest is when they need you the most.
And now here we are, in June 2014, and we're still a laughing stock.
It is a horrible day when you could have been 5-5 and lose to the bottom side in the comp. Then look forward to what could be 4-8 in two games time. Lucky the next draft has key position players to pick from. I didn't think the umpires helped us much against Brisbane, but we really did not look that good at any stage of the game. Not looking forward to the next 2 games.
Landed back from overseas yesterday, and this is the welcome home I get. What a disastrous result. I am outraged. Livid!
How many more games, seasons, eras will we have to endure such passionless efforts? What has changed in the last 10-12 years? 3 different coaches. Several early draft picks. Plodders aplenty. Poor culture, low morale and individuality has set in like a rot. This has been accepted as the norm, and nothing has been established to challenge the status quo. This appears the afflict the board, the playing list, and even down to the maintenance department.
The patient is dead. Time for the autopsy.
Landed back from overseas yesterday, and this is the welcome home I get. What a disastrous result. I am outraged. Livid!
How many more games, seasons, eras will we have to endure such passionless efforts? What has changed in the last 10-12 years? 3 different coaches. Several early draft picks. Plodders aplenty. Poor culture, low morale and individuality has set in like a rot. This has been accepted as the norm, and nothing has been established to challenge the status quo. This appears the afflict the board, the playing list, and even down to the maintenance department.
The patient is dead. Time for the autopsy.
Surely you jest?
Landed back from overseas yesterday, and this is the welcome home I get. What a disastrous result. I am outraged. Livid!
How many more games, seasons, eras will we have to endure such passionless efforts? What has changed in the last 10-12 years? 3 different coaches. Several early draft picks. Plodders aplenty. Poor culture, low morale and individuality has set in like a rot. This has been accepted as the norm, and nothing has been established to challenge the status quo. This appears the afflict the board, the playing list, and even down to the maintenance department.
The patient is dead. Time for the autopsy.
Bombers win Carlton lose and LLP is back.
Haha.
Interesting parallel. Hawthorn get challenged by the 2nd bottom team today and manage to scrape through by 7 points. Highlights the difference between top team and also-rans.
Yeah, mind blowing result. We are not as good as hawthorn!
Yeah, well we're not even as good as Hawthorn missing Lake, Gibson, Mitchell, McEvoy, Rioli and Whitecross, but that wasn't my point. It was more about when they get challenged they respond and I expect them to win. When we get challenged we fold and that I also expect which is a sad indictment on our club.
This.
I expected us to go on with it after we got up by 18, but the difference between us and Brisbane was apparent almost instantly. They responded to the challenge of being down and went up a notch. We thought we have finally stitched up the win, and switched off. The result was that they got within scoring range easily and were able to get across the line. Umpires or not.
So whose job is it to make sure the players are switched on for four quarters?
@PassIt2Carrrots
I would expect that senior players of 50+ games experience would have a better game sense than to let a game slip from their grasp. We were 18 points up with 12 minutes to go in the final quarter. The senior coach cant call a timeout and address the troops.
The real question is, who told them to "switch off"?
@PassIt2Carrrots
I would expect that senior players of 50+ games experience would have a better game sense than to let a game slip from their grasp. We were 18 points up with 12 minutes to go in the final quarter. The senior coach cant call a timeout and address the troops.
The real question is, who told them to "switch off"?
So what is the role of senior coach? May as well have humpty dumpty in charge it seems the coach holds no responsibility at all.
So whose job is it to make sure the players are switched on for four quarters?
Players have switches these days? Fork me ya learn something every day. Seriously, whose job is it to whipe ones backside after one takes a crap? We are talking elite (and I use the term loosely in Carltons case) AFL footballer. I am sure a message went out to not take the pedal off and keep going hard. If the players cant figure it out for themselves though, they shouldn't be out there. As for the leaders on field....
Maxwell was chastised for having a crack a Fasolo last week for mucking up, I would welcome that at our Club and pay bonusses to those who did it. Nuffs enuff fellas.
So whose job is it to make sure the players are switched on for four quarters?
Players have switches these days? Fork me ya learn something every day. Seriously, whose job is it to whipe ones backside after one takes a crap? We are talking elite (and I use the term loosely in Carltons case) AFL footballer. I am sure a message went out to not take the pedal off and keep going hard. If the players cant figure it out for themselves though, they shouldn't be out there. As for the leaders on field....
Maxwell was chastised for having a crack a Fasolo last week for mucking up, I would welcome that at our Club and pay bonusses to those who did it. Nuffs enuff fellas.
What's the role of the coach then?
So whose job is it to make sure the players are switched on for four quarters?
Players have switches these days? Fork me ya learn something every day. Seriously, whose job is it to whipe ones backside after one takes a crap? We are talking elite (and I use the term loosely in Carltons case) AFL footballer. I am sure a message went out to not take the pedal off and keep going hard. If the players cant figure it out for themselves though, they shouldn't be out there. As for the leaders on field....
Maxwell was chastised for having a crack a Fasolo last week for mucking up, I would welcome that at our Club and pay bonusses to those who did it. Nuffs enuff fellas.
What's the role of the coach then?
To show us how bad our list is.
Each player knows what it takes to SWITCH ON before the initial bounce, they are after all highly paid PROFESSIONAL athletes, playing in a team sport. The problem is our lack of leadership on the field, no one takes charge and leads the way.
It's the blind leading the blind.
Each player knows what it takes to SWITCH ON before the initial bounce, they are after all highly paid PROFESSIONAL athletes, playing in a team sport. The problem is our lack of leadership on the field, no one takes charge and leads the way.
It's the blind leading the blind.
So the coach is a part of the blind leading the blind? Or what is the coach's role at the club? Making sure the oranges are cut for half time?
So whose job is it to make sure the players are switched on for four quarters?
Players have switches these days? Fork me ya learn something every day. Seriously, whose job is it to whipe ones backside after one takes a crap? We are talking elite (and I use the term loosely in Carltons case) AFL footballer. I am sure a message went out to not take the pedal off and keep going hard. If the players cant figure it out for themselves though, they shouldn't be out there. As for the leaders on field....
Maxwell was chastised for having a crack a Fasolo last week for mucking up, I would welcome that at our Club and pay bonusses to those who did it. Nuffs enuff fellas.
What's the role of the coach then?
His role is to not have to state the bleeding obvious.
Nice deflection, but seriously, what is the coach's role in your eyes. You obviously have it worked out as he's not to blame for anything so tell me, from your perspective, what is he responsible for?
love the hypocrisy.
Those who wanted ratten gone for not getting club to play finals are the same people who want Malthouse to stay for not getting us to finals.
In fairness to MM, and I do often put the boots in, but I reckon that game was lost at selection!
I don't think he coached too badly this week, we had plenty of inside 50s but just could not register a score.
We are introverts, the competition know if we get pushed hard enough we pull our head in, and Brisbane picked a side full of hard heads!
It was refreshing for me to see Murphy, Yarran and Waite have a go, but they are too few and too late. If we had Walker and Armfield we may have won!
In fairness to MM, and I do often put the boots in, but I reckon that game was lost at selection!
I don't think he coached too badly this week, we had plenty of inside 50s but just could not register a score.
We are introverts, the competition know if we get pushed hard enough we pull our head in, and Brisbane picked a side full of hard heads!
It was refreshing for me to see Murphy, Yarran and Waite have a go, but they are too few and too late. If we had Walker and Armfield we may have won!
Brisbane were due....some good ins, a longer rest than us and while Walker and Armfield are not superstars we missed their run even though AW has
been butchering the ball of late.
Armfield could have taken Rockcliff or Redden and kept them quiet enough to give us a better chance.........
When they lost West we should have taken control but didnt......Carrazzo and Robinson looked underdone and we really didnt have any stars align for us that afternoon.
Seems to be happening quite a lot Elwood......
Seems to be happening quite a lot Elwood......
Chocolate starfish align for us pretty well on a regular basis! ;)
Seems to be happening quite a lot Elwood......
Dont disagree Carrots and when you are 16 points up in the last quarter playing the bottom team you do have to ask questions of all parties...players and coaching staff.
If Malthouse has some gonads he will drop Waite for a couple of weeks......if he keeps him in the team then I know we lack discipline and have no standards to play by...
Seems to be happening quite a lot Elwood......
Dont disagree Carrots and when you are 16 points up in the last quarter playing the bottom team you do have to ask questions of all parties...players and coaching staff.
If Malthouse has some gonads he will drop Waite for a couple of weeks......if he keeps him in the team then I know we lack discipline and have no standards to play by...
Can we beat anyone without Waite? I suppose we're little change of winning the next two weeks anyway
Mick's Members message this week was pretty short.
Just over two minutes
He really didn't give us anything but reading between the lines he wasn't happy with the on-field leadership when they surged
For those folk who don't have access here's a (muddled) summary
"Very disappointing,"
"Can't look for any excuses and that's not going to be the case"
"We had an opportunity to draw level with our win-loss record but over the last couple of years when we've been expected to be better we haven't."
They got a break early on because they "hunted the ball longer and harder"
"Not going to point the finger at individuals"...... (at least publicly, he's not ;))
"When we had opportunities we didn't take the next opportunity and allowed them to score a relatively easy goal....and that got them back in the hunt" (and the home ground advantage becomes a factor ...."surge of emotion" that you have to stop.)
"When we kicked the first two goals of the last quarter I knew, and I think the boys knew, that the job wasn't done....but we allowed them to score goals at will and paid a massive penalty".
"We cant change it all we can do is just keep coaching it....and try to get individuals (again not mentioning any names)..... to stand up and try to rally the troops on the ground to stop any advances they make."
"It's a testing time...we hope you're all on board... please stick and we will do everything we possibly can."
We ain't good at sticking Mick, ask Brits?
Heavens forbid if MM publicly shamed one of the lazy, lack lustre senior Carlton modern day players on his weekly installment. Imagine the uproar that would cause ( I would personally love it). We have too many pretenders prancing around the park whilst being paid the overs to put in sub par performances all to often.
Blighty will always be remembered for the spray he gave Pittman, and look what it did for Pitty. ;D
I wonder how Melbourne would be going ATM had Roos been publicly naming and shaming players instead of criticising his own performance? I guess we can just look at Mark Neeld for the results of that approach.....or perhaps our own backyard?
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/if-you-dont-mind-umpire-carltons-horror-final-term-and-the-most-controversial-calls-of-afl-round-11/story-fni5f5nx-1226940423403
Who knows.
Melbourne are sitting 15th, below us on three wins ? They are doing oh so well, considering the way that club conducts itself.
The Dees rolled us due to their desire and belief, they knew they would over run the Carlton Easybeats. As did the Bears on Saturday.
The Pies, Bombers, Dawks, Cats love playing us, they know with a bit of pressure and physical intimidation we more often than not, throw in towel.
I refuse to get upset by the loss as I reckon the game on Saturday night was suss.
I refuse to get upset by the loss as I reckon the game on Saturday night was suss.
in the vein of a Chris Cairnsesque suss Prof? ???
I refuse to get upset by the loss as I reckon the game on Saturday night was suss.
I just refuse to get upset (over the Blues) nowadays Prof.
Tank up and get some high pics MM!
I refuse to get upset by the loss as I reckon the game on Saturday night was suss.
Rigged by higher power?
Or match fixing?
Gang intimidation?
Nice deflection, but seriously, what is the coach's role in your eyes. You obviously have it worked out as he's not to blame for anything so tell me, from your perspective, what is he responsible for?
Doesn't matter what answer anyone gives to a question phrased like this, it is not going to change your mind.
In case anyone else wants an answer...
1. To unite the individuals and get them playing as a team.
2. To provide a gameplan that the team can play that will win them games, especially in finals.
3. To build a culture that encourages this
4. To introduce the kids in a way which they can contribute to the team, without hindering their development.
5. To make the tough calls on list management
In regards to getting the players 'up'. Getting the kids up, i agree. Senior players, shouldn't require the same motivation.
The odd game, sure, every game, no.
Thankyou! Finally someone answers the question. And I agree with most of that.
It is what it is ,who really thought we had the players to be serious contenders?We get sucked in by beating a couple of other sides that are just as bad as we are and we could very well have lost a couple of them as well.If we want to model our team on another side I would be trying to get someone like dew from Sydney to teach our players about loyalty and giving everything for your football team.There is probably not one player in there team that would not be a walk up starter at our club.They manage to go out and get borderline players from other clubs and turn them inti players.Its time to say goodbye to Judd,carazzo,wait,graham,Lucas,bootsma,Rowe,White,Robinson,ellard,McLean,Watson,armfield,Jeffry,Tuohy,warnock a waste of space and a few more see what you can get for them on the open market suffer the pain and go forward.The bottom half of the ladder is not where we should be we are Carlton.
You can begin to build a side around murph ,Hendo ,yarran,crips,doc,Everett,Thomas,simo,jamo,Gibbs,walker,Kruezer,cas,and a few of the other young blokes at the club.
And before you all start hanging ..... Do you really believe any of those players are going to take you to a flag,most of them will not even bring you a fourth round draft pick.U may get something for Jeffry,robo,warnock and Tuohy but not much.Compare the players I have listed against the Sydney players in the same positions then make a call u will see how far of the mark we are.I love Jeffry but a permanent half forward is athing of the past,Robo bleeds blue but kills us,warnock is waste of space what's the good of winning hit outs if u cannot direct it to a team mate or mark the ball,McLean to slow on the chase and has not got the skills of a Mitchell.Touhy a rabbit in the headlights,Watson no football brain no dash or crash,white and Rowe just not gooy enough and never will be.graham to slow can't kick.Any player that's been on the list and has not made it so far in a bottom 4 or 5 team will never make it.
Like it or not at least it's my opinion
The adjudication of the game was so bewilderingly poor that it makes one suspicious.
Nice deflection, but seriously, what is the coach's role in your eyes. You obviously have it worked out as he's not to blame for anything so tell me, from your perspective, what is he responsible for?
Just saw Kruds response that pretty much sums it up. I have got jack worked out, like everyone else on this site I wouldn't be a coaches a-hole. But comments like:
-He needs to make sure they turn up to play
-He should have made sure they were switched on
crape me to tears.
There isn't a coach in the comp that wouldn't be doing the the above. I believe there are certain things the coach has no control over on game day what so ever. I also believe MM is a tireless worker during the week and on game day (probably like most coaches). Our list however is full of too many individuals who possess many of the faults (poor decision makers, poor disposal skills, undisciplined, lazy etc) that affect the result on game day. When I look at Kruds dot points, number 5. is the most important thing of all he needs to do for mine. He started the process at the end of last year, it will increase in intensity at the end of this year.
See you guys are so fixated on number 5 you've failed to see none of the other boxes are ticked.
See you guys are so fixated on number 5 you've failed to see none of the other boxes are ticked.
I reckon Mick has .4 working out properly.
See you guys are so fixated on number 5 you've failed to see none of the other boxes are ticked.
2. is the next most important, do 5. poorly and 2. aint ever gonna happen.