Friday May 22. Etihad Stadium. 7.50 pm.
...and the Pussy Cats coming off a 7 goal loss to the Fluffy Ducks. Won't be pretty... if you're going to the game, take your knitting or iPad with great games on it.
Give me one good reason to go and watch this game.
Why would anyone put themselves through it?
Give me one good reason to go and watch this game.
Why would anyone put themselves through it?
to see who will put in and try and save their career.
sos was sitting 20 yards from where I was sitting yesterday - away from all carlton hierarchy and sitting with the hard core supporters...
to see who will put in and try and save their career.
sos was sitting 20 yards from where I was sitting yesterday - away from all carlton hierarchy and sitting with the hard core supporters...
Where was that?
I'm actually going :o :o :o
Friday night Blockbuster :P
Since I am working at Echuca at the moment, I don't know if I'll bother yet. A 250 km trip to see us get pounded, followed by a 150 km trip to get home just doesn't sound like fun. Maybe I'll just go to the Gym instead.
Since I am working at Echuca at the moment, I don't know if I'll bother yet. A 250 km trip to see us get pounded, followed by a 150 km trip to get home just doesn't sound like fun. Maybe I'll just go to the Gym instead.
Pizza and the couch mate!
Time for Ellard and Carrazzo to go. Both are finished at senior level.
Graham and Boek/Buckley to come in as they had great games yesterday. Smith had a good game but he is a rookie so we cant play him.
Would rather have kept McClean than seen Ellard run out again, been there long enough to make a mark and he isn't. Not really a Graham fan, but has been treated badly, deserved a spot yesterday.
Time for Ellard and Carrazzo to go. Both are finished at senior level.
Graham and Boek/Buckley to come in as they had great games yesterday. Smith had a good game but he is a rookie so we cant play him.
Smith was our fourth round pick in the draft, he's not a rookie.
I like what he's shown so far and thought he was stiff to be dropped this week, I think Buckley should be picked for the next month so we can make a decision on him.
This is his fourth season and he's either going to measure up or he isn't.
Time for Ellard and Carrazzo to go. Both are finished at senior level.
Graham and Boek/Buckley to come in as they had great games yesterday. Smith had a good game but he is a rookie so we cant play him.
also 2E white watson as a minimum
Smith was our fourth round pick in the draft, he's not a rookie.
I like what he's shown so far and thought he was stiff to be dropped this week, I think Buckley should be picked for the next month so we can make a decision on him.
This is his fourth season and he's either going to measure up or he isn't.
Oops. Meant Walsh not Smith Anyway I reckon he needs to be given a go. Can't do worse than Carrazzo/Ellard.
Unless Hendo is back, would keep Watson, hard to see how anyone would have done much better in the role he had yesterday. Ball just never got there. If Hendo is not there who would you go with? There just aren't any KP players left? Jones seemed to start well , but , but then nothing again.
Unless Hendo is back, would keep Watson, hard to see how anyone would have done much better in the role he had yesterday. Ball just never got there. If Hendo is not there who would you go with? There just aren't any KP players left? Jones seemed to start well , but , but then nothing again.
Agree.. we cant drop Watson after one game and need to give him a couple more....this Geelong game could get ugly. hopefully Jamison is back...Rowe and Jaksch wont cut it against either Clark and Hawkins.
Agree.. we cant drop Watson after one game and need to give him a couple more....this Geelong game could get ugly. hopefully Jamison is back...Rowe and Jaksch wont cut it against either Clark and Hawkins.
If Mick is still coach Watson will be dropped, you can take it to the bank. Also if Mick is coach the Graham will be selected and start as sub. You can also take that one to the bank.
I wish it wasn't on TV, its all too sad to watch. This mob has taken away hope.
If Mick is still coach Watson will be dropped, you can take it to the bank. Also if Mick is coach the Graham will be selected and start as sub. You can also take that one to the bank.
Maybe Graham is too much like Daisy and Mick can only love one son.... ;)
Agree.. we cant drop Watson after one game and need to give him a couple more....this Geelong game could get ugly. hopefully Jamison is back...Rowe and Jaksch wont cut it against either Clark and Hawkins.
Watson has played 20 AFL games and had over 4 years in the system.
He has not improved one bit. The guy shows nothing. Absolutely nothing. Can't even do the basics.
Ellard Watson Armfield to name a few, all well and truly have had their time. Enough now.
We beat dead horses longer then any other team - to the point they have no trade value and have clogged the list for 2 years longer then they should.
Hawkins was out yesterday, maybe won't come up for next round. Either way we can only select players we have available ATM , so if we drop Watson, who comes in? Jamo would be great, but he doesn't kick goals, so hope Hendo is up. But Watson has had some bad moments, but look a the sides he has played in at times, not the best grounding . We are so desperate for a star we expect to much at times and it impacts on our players. It's the culture which is hurting us , any players we attract seem to get drawn in by it and don't develop or go back wards
I'll be in Melbourne for this match, a close mate of mine asked if I want to go to the game with him, I said "no".
Instead I'm preferring to go to Cramer St. the next day and watch the seconds.
I'll be in Melbourne for this match, a close mate of mine asked if I want to go to the game with him, I said "no".
Instead I'm preferring to go to Cramer St. the next day and watch the seconds.
cramer st is a depressing place sheik :-\
If Mick is still coach Watson will be dropped, you can take it to the bank. Also if Mick is coach the Graham will be selected and start as sub. You can also take that one to the bank.
Will be typical Malthouse. We had 30 inside 50's yesterday and so we will drop the forwards.
Just my point , 30 inside 50's , so it's a midfield problem, but to fix it Watson might be dropped mmmm makes little sense. What would that do to a player you would think with an already fragile believe
Watson has played 20 AFL games and had over 4 years in the system.
He has not improved one bit. The guy shows nothing. Absolutely nothing. Can't even do the basics.
Ellard Watson Armfield to name a few, all well and truly have had their time. Enough now.
We beat dead horses longer then any other team - to the point they have no trade value and have clogged the list for 2 years longer then they should.
I dont disagree and I am always keen to move on list cloggers...however I just want to give Watson a couple of games to to make sure we are not
getting rid of a player without first giving him time to settle in the one position after he did show something with 4 goals vs Essendon last season.
As pointed out we didnt get many scoring opportunities and delivery to our forwards is non existent so we need to judge Watson when we are
capable of giving him some supply...
Will be typical Malthouse. We had 30 inside 50's yesterday and so we will drop the forwards.
He probably should. They are basically the reason we couldn't get the ball into our forward line. Nobody was presenting up to the wing so we had no choice but to chip around the backline before becoming frustrated and kicking to a contest....which usually went to the advantage of the opposition such is our foot skills.
I find it incredible, then again, perhaps I don't, that some of you actually think that Watson deserves YET ANOTHER CHANCE.
The fact that the ball "didn't get down there", is irrelevant.
The question must be, when it did get down there, what did Watson do?
Did he contest? Did he show toughness, effort, or any determination to actually try and get the ball?
Did he put his body on the line at any stage during his time on the field?
Now, if you are prepared to set aside your blinkered biased glasses and look at Watson's 3 possession performance objectively, you must, if you have got any idea about the game at all, agree that Watson, while he may be a very nice bloke, is, at AFL level, a complete hack.
Putting everything else aside, after 4 years in the system, I have yet to see Watson kick with his right foot, nor do I know if he can.
That, in itself is an indictment of Watson's commitment to the game, to the club, and his desire to play at the highest level.
I wouldn't give him another game, and he MUST be delisted at the end of the year.
I find it incredible, then again, perhaps I don't, that some of you actually think that Watson deserves YET ANOTHER CHANCE.
The fact that the ball "didn't get down there", is irrelevant.
The question must be, when it did get down there, what did Watson do?
Did he contest? Did he show toughness, effort, or any determination to actually try and get the ball?
Did he put his body on the line at any stage during his time on the field?
Now, if you are prepared to set aside your blinkered biased glasses and look at Watson's 3 possession performance objectively, you must, if you have got any idea about the game at all, agree that Watson, while he may be a very nice bloke, is, at AFL level, a complete hack.
Putting everything else aside, after 4 years in the system, I have yet to see Watson kick with his right foot, nor do I know if he can.
That, in itself is an indictment of Watson's commitment to the game, to the club, and his desire to play at the highest level.
I wouldn't give him another game, and he MUST be delisted at the end of the year.
Sad but true. It was a very poor performance from a player who should have been much more desperate.
He probably should. They are basically the reason we couldn't get the ball into our forward line. Nobody was presenting up to the wing so we had no choice but to chip around the backline before becoming frustrated and kicking to a contest....which usually went to the advantage of the opposition such is our foot skills.
So same as every other game this year.
Watson is same as Jones, doesn't work hard enough. But he needs a few weeks.
How bad our forward line has become...
Pizza and the couch mate!
Plus a glass of wine and a 120 + thrashing...
Sounds like a plan. ;D
So same as every other game this year.
Watson is same as Jones, doesn't work hard enough. But he needs a few weeks.
How bad our forward line has become...
Jones works a hell of a lot harder than Watson does.
Having said that thought, i turtle probably covers more ground than Watson does and they run at about the same pace.
Jones works a hell of a lot harder than Watson does.
Having said that thought, i turtle probably covers more ground than Watson does and they run at about the same pace.
Wow, Watson must be a statue then
Will be typical Malthouse. We had 30 inside 50's yesterday and so we will drop the forwards.
And the entries were at under 9 Auskick standard..
We are simply ridiculous and it's sad that the cattle just don't care how they look !!
If Mick is still coach Watson will be dropped, you can take it to the bank. Also if Mick is coach the Graham will be selected and start as sub. You can also take that one to the bank.
I think Henderson comes back this week anyway but, yes, despite the fact the ball doesn't come into the forward line in any manner at all, and when it does it terrible. But, yes you're right, if Hendo didn't come back Watson still would've got dropped anyway.
Wow, Watson must be a statue then
With his looks like tarzan plays like jane attitude, a statue is about all he is good for.
He probably should. They are basically the reason we couldn't get the ball into our forward line. Nobody was presenting up to the wing so we had no choice but to chip around the backline before becoming frustrated and kicking to a contest....which usually went to the advantage of the opposition such is our foot skills.
We spend a lot of our time with no-one in the forward 50 over the last couple of weeks. Playing 1000 blokes behind the ball and no one ahead means one has to chip. We've seen a few times blokes running down the wing, having to stop, kick backwards as there was no-one ahead to kick to.
We spend a lot of our time with no-one in the forward 50 over the last couple of weeks. Playing 1000 blokes behind the ball and no one ahead means one has to chip. We've seen a few times blokes running down the wing, having to stop, kick backwards as there was no-one ahead to kick to.
Jim if our guys are playing like that to instruction isn't it a bit unfair to take the forwards to task?
Jim if our guys are playing like that to instruction isn't it a bit unfair to take the forwards to task?
Certainly no-one is blaming the forwards. How could you?
I think we need to make some major changes. first off I would take Gibbs, Judd and Murphy out of the midfield, I would play Gibbs down back and Murphy up forward. I also think we need another Key defender because Jacsck isn't up to the task. I would also use Kruezer as a key forward if fit, and I would play Yarran further up the ground as we lack pace thru the middle. Finally I would not play Carrazzo again as I think he is gone. This means I would go with the following
B. Docherty Rowe White
H/B Gibbs (Henderson/Jamison)* Touhy *Only one
C Yarran Curnow Everett
H/F Tutt Kreuzer Bell
F. Murphy Casboult Menzel
R. Wood Cripps Graham
I/C Simpson Buckley Whiley Judd
All the rest, Walker, Thomas, Jacsk, Grant and the rest can play in the twos until they get form and passion.
Certainly no-one is blaming the forwards. How could you?
Well I wouldn't but some others seem to be.
I am really not looking forward to this game. Geelong have just lost a game they could have won. I really don't see who on our list could really make a big difference. We need many players to lift and carry the squad. Judd can't do this over and over again. Are his shoulders not bandaged up enough. I hope we don't get completely crushed in this game.
I've been thinking about our lacked run.
I think one major issue is we are very height imbalanced.
our talls cannot play football once the ball hits the deck. Rowe, wood, Levi, Watson, all lack the necessary agility below the knees and that must have some effect on our lack of run.
I think we can only afford two of the above in the line-up.
Until Jamison and Hendo come back we are stuck with Wood and Rowe. once they are back, I would drop Rowe and add Kreuzer to ruck/forward in a tandem, play Henderson chb, Jamo full back and Jaksch forward with Jones.
Casboult stiff but wood is our only capable ruck on our list, whilst Rowe is probably one of few winning his position more often than he loses this season.
I've been thinking about our lacked run.
I think one major issue is we are very height imbalanced.
our talls cannot play football once the ball hits the deck. Rowe, wood, Levi, Watson, all lack the necessary agility below the knees and that must have some effect on our lack of run.
I think we can only afford two of the above in the line-up.
Until Jamison and Hendo come back we are stuck with Wood and Rowe. once they are back, I would drop Rowe and add Kreuzer to ruck/forward in a tandem, play Henderson chb, Jamo full back and Jaksch forward with Jones.
Casboult stiff but wood is our only capable ruck on our list, whilst Rowe is probably one of few winning his position more often than he loses this season.
Jones ahead of Casboult...lol.
Kreuzer's a great ruck but an awful forward. Casboult will ruck with Kreuzer. Wood won't play. Casboult's work around the ground is too valuable and the only one likely to be able to play as a key forward while not rucking.
Doesn't matter. While Mick's there we won't get any run anyway. He lost the players long ago. To get run firstly you have to put an effort in.
Key positions will be Jamison, Rowe, Casboult and Henderson with Casboult do some ruck work too. Jaksch will play a 3rd tall role for now at some end of the ground. Better in defence for his sake as he won't be getting a kick forward right now. Who would?
Jones ahead of Casboult...lol.
Kreuzer's a great ruck but an awful forward. Casboult will ruck with Kreuzer. Wood won't play. Casboult's work around the ground is too valuable and the only one likely to be able to play as a key forward while not rucking.
Doesn't matter. While Mick's there we won't get any run anyway. He lost the players long ago. To get run firstly you have to put an effort in.
Key positions will be Jamison, Rowe, Casboult and Henderson with Casboult do some ruck work too. Jaksch will play a 3rd tall role for now at some end of the ground. Better in defence for his sake as he won't be getting a kick forward right now. Who would?
Jones ahead of Casboult to balance our forwardline only.
One can play below the knees. The other cant.
Ditto Jaksch.
I think Levi is potentially our best forward, but not with the ruck setup we currently use. It only works if he is one of the rucks, and Wood is clearly our best performing ruckman all season, and that says little about Wood and more about the rest.
So if we bring in Kreuzer, that means two of Rowe, Wood and Casboult must go out in order to improve our run.
If Kreuzer could get fit, and do the 1st ruck duties, our best tandem would be him and Levi.
Look at how Mumford played on the weekend. He was EVERYWHERE.
None of our guys but Kreuzer can do that, and even he only did it prior to his knee op.
I find it incredible, then again, perhaps I don't, that some of you actually think that Watson deserves YET ANOTHER CHANCE.
The fact that the ball "didn't get down there", is irrelevant.
The question must be, when it did get down there, what did Watson do?
Did he contest? Did he show toughness, effort, or any determination to actually try and get the ball?
Did he put his body on the line at any stage during his time on the field?
Now, if you are prepared to set aside your blinkered biased glasses and look at Watson's 3 possession performance objectively, you must, if you have got any idea about the game at all, agree that Watson, while he may be a very nice bloke, is, at AFL level, a complete hack.
Putting everything else aside, after 4 years in the system, I have yet to see Watson kick with his right foot, nor do I know if he can.
That, in itself is an indictment of Watson's commitment to the game, to the club, and his desire to play at the highest level.
I wouldn't give him another game, and he MUST be delisted at the end of the year.
Dont get me wrong Big fella..I'm not a fan of Watson and am only prepared to give him opportunity that we have to Jones in the interest
of equity....do i think he will make it..No...do i think we will delist him at seasons end...Yes
Is he better than Jones?...we will see in a couple of weeks if he stays in the team but I am not expecting much difference to the output from Jones....
I think we need to make some major changes. first off I would take Gibbs, Judd and Murphy out of the midfield, I would play Gibbs down back and Murphy up forward. I also think we need another Key defender because Jacsck isn't up to the task. I would also use Kruezer as a key forward if fit, and I would play Yarran further up the ground as we lack pace thru the middle. Finally I would not play Carrazzo again as I think he is gone. This means I would go with the following
B. Docherty Rowe White
H/B Gibbs (Henderson/Jamison)* Touhy *Only one
C Yarran Curnow Everett
H/F Tutt Kreuzer Bell
F. Murphy Casboult Menzel
R. Wood Cripps Graham
I/C Simpson Buckley Whiley Judd
All the rest, Walker, Thomas, Jacsk, Grant and the rest can play in the twos until they get form and passion.
Don't mind that side, but I cant stand to see Tutt in Navy Blue and would prefer to see Walker play there. Agree on Carazzo, however I'd play Warnock ahead of Wood.
Basically, I'd get all of Malthouse's picks out of the side - Wood, Tutt, Jones & Thomas
Something revolutionary. Settle the side for 6 weeks, and see how well they go. So far, we seem to average a lot of changes every week, and none of it makes much difference. They might improve more if they get used to playing with each other.
Something revolutionary. Settle the side for 6 weeks, and see how well they go. So far, we seem to average a lot of changes every week, and none of it makes much difference. They might improve more if they get used to playing with each other.
x2
I think Friday night will be date night with the better half.
Best to avoid the media until mid to late Sat arvo until some other games have commenced.
This result could be frightening, in what is fast becoming an deplorable Blues season...
Is Hawkins back for this game? Rowe won't be sleeping easy and with the midfield tranquilised, it might be a bad night ahead. The better teams can close down old champs like SJ but it's teams like us those guys continue to ply their trade on.
I suspect another tough night as Geelong will want to show they have something left in them but where there's life there's hope.
Do it for Mick ;D
Love to find a long term injury list player to allow us to give Walsh a go. He is going to be a contributor in the coming years and just needs some consistent game time in the big league.
It is important that over the next 16 weeks Cripps, Graham, Holman, Walsh etc get to see Juddy prepare for a game, how he conducts himself on the ground, take direction from him....and just LEARN from him (very few others on the list worth shadowing!!).
Need to make this extra year of Juddy's as productive as possible.
Geelong, Sydney, Adelaide, the bye. This could get very ugly in the next three weeks. Traditionally we play well against the Cats so this is our chance to show some improvement.
May even lose the bye?
May even lose the bye?
:))
May even lose the bye?
At the moment I wouldn't put it past us. :( :(
Like carrots mentioned earlier, we usually match up quite well against Geelong. That should give us some confidence.
However, things are as far from 'normal' as we can get.
I reckon Geelong are as slow as us and if by some freakin' miracle we can hit a few targets we might run this mob closer than expected. Curnow is doing ok and he might be harder for Selwood to shake off than say Wiley. Asking Carrots to run with Selwood is probably asking too much right now. And here's a left field one - White or even Jaksch to run with Blicavs around the ground - he is key to their ball movement. Look for Gibbs to have a good game as well - he normally gets space against the cats that he exploits. Taylor is another that cannot be allowed to run around and dictate play.
Assuming none of the injured list come up, Mr Dorotich, I reckon you're pretty close to the side I'd pick, although I'd like to see Fields get a go. That means no Carrots, Ellard, Watson, Armfield. I would give Juddy a week's holiday and send Thomas back to the twos because fair dinkum he needs a rocket. We need to show the list that anything less than full commitment is unacceptable.
Basically send the message to the players that they are all valuable to us - that the club values effort and passion and its about the here and now, not possible delistings and horse trading in 8 month's time.
Mick needs to be taken aside and told that he is safe on a number of conditions; development. Development of the players, the gameplan and club. That players must be instructed to take the game on and a faster gameplan developed. MAke teh game exciting and football fun again. As a result I would like to see Yarran (not a defenders a-hole) and Touhy higher up the ground if possible. Buckley to get a run on a wing, not defence.
Geelong don't win a lot of clearances... they rely on us giving them back the pill. They also rely upon owning the corridor. Win first use. Retain the ball. Cut them up with pace through their back half (don't let them set up!) and we'll do this mob.
Geelong by 45 points.
Hawkins 6 goals.
Selwood 7 free kicks (most for head high contact)
MM to say 'they re a very good football side' in the Presser.
Is Hawkins going to play though?
Is Hawkins going to play though?
He'll still kick 6 ;D
New coach, new outlook, new result.... nah! The same BS will be deilivered ::)
Long time reader, first time poster, reserved seat member since early 90’s, I go to 14-16 games per year. I feel compelled to post because of some of the rubbish I am hearing in the media. Everyone is getting blamed for our current predicament, from the coach to the leaders to the list managers to the Board. Not easy to determine what the truth is. So I thought back to a glorious night on September 8 2013 at the G where I sat in a massive crowd and watched us come back and win an Elimination Final against Richmond. We played exhilarating football in the second half, and with some exciting young players we looked forward to good times over the next few years. In the car on the 90 minute trip home we actually discussed what we need to press for top 4 in the next year or two. How have we got from there to where we are now?
So I searched today and found the team from that night, just 16 months ago. Of the 22, we still have 15 on our list (D Armfield, T Bell, E Curnow, B Gibbs, L Henderson, M Jamison, C Judd, M Kreuzer, T Menzel, M Murphy, K Simpson, Z Tuohy, A Walker, R Warnock, C Yarran). While Tom Bell has clearly improved, and possibly Ed Curnow, it is hard to make an argument that any of the others have improved since 2013 (apologies to Juddy – hard to improve from the level he started at!). This is a blight on our player development.
Of the 7 players no longer on the list, we as a club decided to delist 3 of them (J Garlett, A McInnes and M Robinson), 2 have retired (N Duigan, H Scotland), and two were lost to free agency (E Betts, J Waite). Any half decent club would be able to cover the retirements, which are beyond our control. Scotland was an excellent player for us, but I think the recruitment of Docherty was very good, and he has shown that he is stepping up to that role. Duigan was a bit player, and his retirement can hardly be regarded as the cause of our demise. The delistings of Garlett and Robinson haven’t helped us, but I can understand where the club was coming from, although we seem to handle such incidents worse than every other club (in terms of the outcomes for the club).
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…
Well said Jack Burton! This guy CLEARLY knows what he's talking bout!
Long time reader, first time poster, reserved seat member since early 90’s, I go to 14-16 games per year. I feel compelled to post because of some of the rubbish I am hearing in the media. Everyone is getting blamed for our current predicament, from the coach to the leaders to the list managers to the Board. Not easy to determine what the truth is. So I thought back to a glorious night on September 8 2013 at the G where I sat in a massive crowd and watched us come back and win an Elimination Final against Richmond. We played exhilarating football in the second half, and with some exciting young players we looked forward to good times over the next few years. In the car on the 90 minute trip home we actually discussed what we need to press for top 4 in the next year or two. How have we got from there to where we are now?
So I searched today and found the team from that night, just 16 months ago. Of the 22, we still have 15 on our list (D Armfield, T Bell, E Curnow, B Gibbs, L Henderson, M Jamison, C Judd, M Kreuzer, T Menzel, M Murphy, K Simpson, Z Tuohy, A Walker, R Warnock, C Yarran). While Tom Bell has clearly improved, and possibly Ed Curnow, it is hard to make an argument that any of the others have improved since 2013 (apologies to Juddy – hard to improve from the level he started at!). This is a blight on our player development.
Of the 7 players no longer on the list, we as a club decided to delist 3 of them (J Garlett, A McInnes and M Robinson), 2 have retired (N Duigan, H Scotland), and two were lost to free agency (E Betts, J Waite). Any half decent club would be able to cover the retirements, which are beyond our control. Scotland was an excellent player for us, but I think the recruitment of Docherty was very good, and he has shown that he is stepping up to that role. Duigan was a bit player, and his retirement can hardly be regarded as the cause of our demise. The delistings of Garlett and Robinson haven’t helped us, but I can understand where the club was coming from, although we seem to handle such incidents worse than every other club (in terms of the outcomes for the club).
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…
Welcome JB. Good post. ;)
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…
As far as I know, the money offered to Waite by Carlton was the same as that offered by North, North however offered the extra year (unconditional), our extra year had conditions. So I am not sure how you can say Waite was flicked by MM to free $ up for Thomas. For starters Thomas was already there when Waite left. Waite even went to MM's house and told him he was staying then back peddled. Betts was prepared to stay for the same money he was on, Carlton pulled the offer altogether because his Manager c#$ted in the final negotiation meeting and made an absolute pig of himself.
So you're saying Swann's ego got in the way of Betts staying? Swann didn't like his manager so he ditched betts?
Also Waite obviously left because he couldn't stand Malthouse the tosswad.
Players gone under MM - Waite, Betts, Garlett, Robinson, Hampson.
Before that - Jacobs, Grigg.
Jacobs and Betts the clear losses. The excitement and ex-factor of Waite and Garlett could have been handy with the mongrel of Robinson.
There were issues ofcourse but we got little for those blokes in return which is a worry!!!
You forgot Fevola.
Players gone under MM - Waite, Betts, Garlett, Robinson, Hampson.
Before that - Jacobs, Grigg.
Jacobs and Betts the clear losses. The excitement and ex-factor of Waite and Garlett could have been handy with the mongrel of Robinson.
There were issues ofcourse but we got little for those blokes in return which is a worry!!!
Of those players gone, the only one that is a win is Hampson.
Our media management is appalling. The lead up to last year's trade period is absolutely ridiculous in terms of what got into the public domain killing our trade leverage.
The repeat performance showing we havent learned our lesson are the Judge, and Trigg's comments re the coaching position of our footy club.
#amateurhour
Very interesting post from Jack Burton. I too am a long time member, go to 14+ games per year and was also very excited by the potential move upwards after that great win.
My thoughts are we played a great game but many of the players mentioned have gone backwards since then - to name some: Henderson, M Jamison, M Kreuzer, M Murphy, A Walker, R Warnock. Some due to injury, some due to age and some both. Others have been able to simply maintain their good form - give me a couple more Chris Judds & Kade Simpsons please. Consistently play well and can be replied on week after week. How I miss players like Michael Sexton - someone who can hold down CHB week after week and very rarely let you down.
What I'm also looking for is the newer players to really step up. Guys like T.Menzel I saw back in 2013 with real potential but has not (yet?) developed into a match winner. Maybe Menzel & Cripps will prove me wrong but more importantly I'd like to see a couple of key position players really develop. I do not see any chance of a Buddy Franklin 'appearing' in our current list.
In summary - our problem is cattle on the track (not MM) and the development of the players (of which MM has some input of course).
From what I gathered from MAccas latest Injury Update, Hendo, Cripps, Simmo and possibly Walker all back this week.
From what I gathered from MAccas latest Injury Update, Hendo, Cripps, Simmo and possibly Walker all back this week.
Yay?
Double yay and hopefully Kruezer
Big yip.
all the same names are back ,how about we mix it up and play a youngster to.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/three-big-geelong-names-could-return-for-carlton-clash-20150519-gh50ye.html
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/three-big-geelong-names-could-return-for-carlton-clash-20150519-gh50ye.html
Bring it on!
Long time reader, first time poster, reserved seat member since early 90’s, I go to 14-16 games per year. I feel compelled to post because of some of the rubbish I am hearing in the media. Everyone is getting blamed for our current predicament, from the coach to the leaders to the list managers to the Board. Not easy to determine what the truth is. So I thought back to a glorious night on September 8 2013 at the G where I sat in a massive crowd and watched us come back and win an Elimination Final against Richmond. We played exhilarating football in the second half, and with some exciting young players we looked forward to good times over the next few years. In the car on the 90 minute trip home we actually discussed what we need to press for top 4 in the next year or two. How have we got from there to where we are now?
So I searched today and found the team from that night, just 16 months ago. Of the 22, we still have 15 on our list (D Armfield, T Bell, E Curnow, B Gibbs, L Henderson, M Jamison, C Judd, M Kreuzer, T Menzel, M Murphy, K Simpson, Z Tuohy, A Walker, R Warnock, C Yarran). While Tom Bell has clearly improved, and possibly Ed Curnow, it is hard to make an argument that any of the others have improved since 2013 (apologies to Juddy – hard to improve from the level he started at!). This is a blight on our player development.
Of the 7 players no longer on the list, we as a club decided to delist 3 of them (J Garlett, A McInnes and M Robinson), 2 have retired (N Duigan, H Scotland), and two were lost to free agency (E Betts, J Waite). Any half decent club would be able to cover the retirements, which are beyond our control. Scotland was an excellent player for us, but I think the recruitment of Docherty was very good, and he has shown that he is stepping up to that role. Duigan was a bit player, and his retirement can hardly be regarded as the cause of our demise. The delistings of Garlett and Robinson haven’t helped us, but I can understand where the club was coming from, although we seem to handle such incidents worse than every other club (in terms of the outcomes for the club).
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…
Gee you raise some good points. The highlighted above is what I'd like to talk about a little more.
After that important and character filled win (though probably assisted a little by the softness of the Tiggers), we were all entitled to go into 2014 full of hope and enthusiasm, I know I couldn't wait to get my membership and be there for the continued climb. But I had a nagging concern, a worry, that went right back to the first game we played under MM. That was fuelled by info that 22 blokes were going into 2014 after surgery, hampering their form and lowering our expectations of 2014.
Simply and maybe crudely put, I was worried that when we played the highly defensive style that our new Senior Coach had built a very successful career upon, we just looked hopeless, clueless. Then, during games, when this defensiveness/ negativity was obviously released (due to trailing badly), the players seemed to play with more freedom, confidence and positivity and amazing 'comebacks' happened. We saw this in the very first game MM coached us, against the Tiggers. And again in that final you write about. Our culture, right or wrong, could not accommodate his style. Why? I got nothin'.
Ratts' coaching style allowed for and even encouraged offensiveness... and gee this worked really well on a number of occasions and had the players feeling good about themselves, and just like that final against the Tiggers, we were good to watch. But this style collapsed under very good sides applying significant pressure... too often we were embarrassed, too often we were beaten by good sides in good form, to often C. Judd carried the side. As an aside, the one thing that Ratts did which MM has not been able to do, is to get us up for those really big games against our traditional rivals. But, I understand you don't build premiership sides on beating arch rivals, but failing elsewhere... we lost too often under Ratts to sides we should have beaten.
I guess this missive is about hoping that MM releases the shackles for this Friday night - experiment with giving this group a creative and offensive direction. Try to understand that in the words of Bertrand Russell, '“In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.” MM, this group is playing frightened and safe under you, and that reflects on you.
When we witness the playing group going about their business without confidence, I think 'coaching'. And right now I can hear MM saying that if a player needs motivating... etc, then there's something up with him. Nuh. I've been a young man and I know I looked to my elders/leaders, at times, for inspiration. I think Ratts understood this.
I know this post has probably wondered all over the place but I cannot help but think that our list is not 'bad', ordinary, maybe. But first and foremost to me is that our blokes do not seem to take the field 'inspired', pumped, enthusiastic... they seem to take the field burdened by duty rather than love of the game and playing with mates. And, to me, that's coaching. In fact, that's a failure of coaching leadership.
(when you go too defensive, you get Lyon (with amazing list) and no Premierships and when you go too offensive you get Grant (who had a phenomenal list) no Premierships. Pr1ck (Clarkson), Roos, Horse (in recent history), understand this.
Just thoughts.
@ Baggers
Great post, you are very learned man. Just on the following though:
"I know this post has probably wondered all over the place but I cannot help but think that our list is not 'bad', ordinary, maybe. But first and foremost to me is that our blokes do not seem to take the field 'inspired', pumped, enthusiastic... they seem to take the field burdened by duty rather than love of the game and playing with mates. And, to me, that's coaching. In fact, that's a failure of coaching leadership."
It funny you mention this because in one of his pressers after the game, MM said that one of the last thing he told the guys as they were about run down the race was "just play the game".
This is a blight on our player development.
....
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts...
Player development has been my biggest bugbear for a while now and i 100% agree.
There was an article recently that stated that we could've afforded both Betts and Thomas. So the recruitment of Thomas can not be blamed for the loss of Betts (and to a lesser extent Waite).
So you may need to remove a bit more emotion and have another look at the facts. ;)
Good first post though.
@ Baggers
Great post, you are very learned man. Just on the following though:
"I know this post has probably wondered all over the place but I cannot help but think that our list is not 'bad', ordinary, maybe. But first and foremost to me is that our blokes do not seem to take the field 'inspired', pumped, enthusiastic... they seem to take the field burdened by duty rather than love of the game and playing with mates. And, to me, that's coaching. In fact, that's a failure of coaching leadership."
It funny you mention this because in one of his pressers after the game, MM said that one of the last thing he told the guys as they were about run down the race was "just play the game".
But what is their understanding of that? What do those words mean to them? Is that motivating to me? Does that say something to me? Does that inspire me?
Forgive me if I seem terribly shallow, but I wonder if our club served as a vehicle for MM to achieve a personal goal.... not the first time our club has provided a credible vehicle for someone's personal agenda.
Our brand, our esteem is dying, only courageous leaders will arrest and reverse this trend.
@ Baggers
Many have suggested this before (MM wanting to achieve his own goals using us a vehicle). I don't agree that this is the case, its just my personal opinion of Mick. I find it disrespectful towards one of the best coaches in the history of the game, again just my opinion of him (which is much higher than many on here, but thats ok). Again, is he the right man for the job 2016 and onwards? Probably not but a "committee" reviewing the coach for 2016 and beyond will determine this, not me. One thing is for sure, their decision will anger some here and make others happy. If they get it wrong (which is where money is purely because of track record), we are ALL going to be sad for a very long time to come. Sorry but at the minute, I cant see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Gibbs, Murphy, and other leaders or players in general haven't said anything in interviews about having to change the way they go about their football. Or what the entire playing group needs to do. This might be a change in trend and may be a starting point. I still feel a stinging feeling on my @rse cheeks, thing we could still experience a complete flogging.
Take it up to them, get in and tackle, tackle and tackle - don't let them run and hit them at every opportunity and we might have a chance.
This is your opportunity blues to show you care and show some heart. Own the midfield and make them chase us.
We have been Geelong's bitches for a long time, that won't change Frid Night I'm affraid.
Cats by 60.....
Cats by 59
61
No
Blues by 24.
We'll win one when we least expect it. ;)
/\ /\ /\ Like :)
We have been Geelong's bitches for a long time, that won't change Frid Night I'm affraid.
That is true but the average losing margin from our last 5 matches is 8 points.
3 matches by 6 points or less.
If we give effort then we can come close....Geelong are not as good as they were and can be beaten, Selwood has got them over the line in recent games and surely we must have learned something about how to reduce his impact on the game.
We also need to stop kicking it to Harry Taylor, we do the same thing with Cale Hooker, bomb the footy and give them easy marks across half back, drag these players away from the footy.......bit of planning /effort and its game on....
If we give effort then we can come close....Geelong are not as good as they were and can be beaten, Selwood has got them over the line in recent games and surely we must have learned something about how to reduced his impact on the game.
We also need to stop kicking it to Harry Taylor, we do the same thing with Cale Hooker, bomb the footy and give them easy marks across half back, drag thrse players away from the footy.......bit of planning /effort and its game on....
errrr... problem there Elwood! :o
errrr... problem there Elwood! :o
I was there during the good times Phanto so I still have hope we can get some effort because our club always had fight when it was back to the wall stuff...often its the kids who show the way and drag the senior players along. Surely this mob have some pride and can lift for each other, its often said that soldiers in battle dont fight for the country, flag etc but they do it for their mate standing next to them in the trenches, cos he is all you have to rely on...I know they had Ben Roberts talk to them with little effect it seems but these blokes have to have some bond/comradeship that means something...
If they dont then I give up :-[ :(
I was there during the good times Phanto so I still have hope we can get some effort because our club always had fight when it was back to the wall stuff...often its the kids who show the way and drag the senior players along. Surely this mob have some pride and can lift for each other, its often said that soldiers in battle dont fight for the country, flag etc but they do it for their mate standing next to them in the trenches, cos he is all you have to rely on...I know they had Ben Roberts talk to them with little effect it seems but these blokes have to have some bond/comradeship that means something...
If they dont then I give up :-[ :(
We are all on our last tethers with hope, care and time Elwood.
i think the last straw has been broken for many if not all of us long ago but as passionate supporters (or gullible) we hang on the belief or hope that this might be the game or this might be the year or this might be the coach.
I mean how much more crap do we as supporters..no PAYING members have to swallow. We all don't mind losing but it is how we are losing that is doing our heads in.
They all talk the talk but when it's their time to go they can't walk the walk and many players are being found out and found out often, not just in the odd game.
Give us passion, you are paid exorbitant amounts of money to play the game you supposedly love, if don't care about the jumper at least act like you care because you are on actors wages.
What will it take for this all to turn around...how long is a piece of string because at the moments most of our players (not all) are about as useful as a one legged man in a arse kicking contest. ::)
What will it take for this all to turn around...how long is a piece of string because at the moments most of our players (not all) are about as useful as a one legged man in a arse kicking contest. ::)
We've been drafting duds and trading draft picks for duds for well over a decade and now the chickens have come home to roost.
It wouldn't matter how much passion the players showed because too many of them simply lack the ability to compete at the top level.
Our list is a basket case, it will take years to rebuild it and even then there's no guarantee we won't keep making the same mistakes.
We all feel robbed, I got my first CFC membership in 1964 and camped overnight outside Princes Park for tickets to the 1968 grand final, it's very hard to come to terms with how far we've fallen..
We've been drafting duds and trading draft picks for duds for well over a decade and now the chickens have come home to roost.
It wouldn't matter how much passion the players showed because too many of them simply lack the ability to compete at the top level.
Our list is a basket case, it will take years to rebuild it and even then there's no guarantee we won't keep making the same mistakes.
We all feel robbed, I got my first CFC membership in 1964 and camped overnight outside Princes Park for tickets to the 1968 grand final, it's very hard to come to terms with how far we've fallen..
the poverty of the list is over stated.
I know I said yesterday that SOS has to be 10/10 for us to be good again but it doesn't excuse the performances that we are seeing.
cimm1979 makes a strong point. While our list is not the best in the league, our weak performances are not an excuse on what quality we may have. Bottom of the ladder is not where we would be if we gave an effort to win for 4 quarters. The efforts are not what is expected from a club trying to win a game. Its what we have seen in the past from sides that sit on the bottom of the ladder.
In: Dylan Buckley, Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Patrick Cripps
Out: Matthew Dick (Omitted), Matthew Watson (Omitted), Kristian Jaksch (Omitted), David Ellard (Omitted)
Armfield for Graham would have been nice...........
In: Dylan Buckley, Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Patrick Cripps
Out: Matthew Dick (Omitted), Matthew Watson (Omitted), Kristian Jaksch (Omitted), David Ellard (Omitted)
OMG, seriously just fk off already Malthouse.
In: Dylan Buckley, Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Patrick Cripps
Out: Matthew Dick (Omitted), Matthew Watson (Omitted), Kristian Jaksch (Omitted), David Ellard (Omitted)
All four inclusions are much faster than the players they are replacing :)
Get him away from our club already could we? Could someone just please show some sanity at our club.
dick and jaesch need to stay
Tomorrow night is going to be ugly, can't believe they give Watson just over a half in a match where the ball never came up there. What statement does that say, then bring back Jones?????
Kreuzer not named in the VFL side :(
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/round_info.cgi?c=1-118-0-339767-0&pool=1&fixture=124365292&a=SELECT
Tomorrow night is going to be ugly, can't believe they give Watson just over a half in a match where the ball never came up there. What statement does that say, then bring back Jones?????
It shows us that Watson refuses to present on the lead up the ground and waits for the ball to come to him.
It shows us that Jones will present on the lead up the ground and doesn't wait for the ball to come to him.
I made a comment in the post match thread last week that i was VERY disappointed with our team refusing to run and present for their teammates. We couldn't get the ball out of the backline because everyone up the ground were flat footed. So we played keepings off in defensive 50 until we messed up or became impatient and bomber it long to a 50-50 at best.
Yep, Jones is the answer.
It shows us that Watson refuses to present on the lead up the ground and waits for the ball to come to him.
It shows us that Jones will present on the lead up the ground and doesn't wait for the ball to come to him.
I made a comment in the post match thread last week that i was VERY disappointed with our team refusing to run and present for their teammates. We couldn't get the ball out of the backline because everyone up the ground were flat footed. So we played keepings off in defensive 50 until we messed up or became impatient and bomber it long to a 50-50 at best.
So who plays on Tom Hawkins and Mitch Clarke??
Wood, Tutt, White, Rowe, Armfield etc just too many c graders.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2015-05-21/mick-on-kreuzer-and-injury-list
re Kreuzer
So from not being sure whether he'd come up or not for the Geelong game to not even playing in the VFL side...that's a concern.
Hopefully it's as simple as a managed recovery and a week off.
Yep, Jones is the answer.
Wood, Jones, Tutt and Thomas - Mick's legacy
Jones = Tanking
Yep, Jones is the answer.
Never said he is the answer. Just saying that he offers more than Watson does.
We are gunna get flogged, who in the hell is going to stop Gawkins and Clarke from kicking a lazy dozen between them. Mate of mine (cats fan) invited yours truly around to watch the game!!! Said no thanks rather watch Muriel's Wedding with the missus. That's how bad I feel.
Reckon Kruze is in trouble again, hope like cluck it's a management issue. >:D
Never said he is the answer. Just saying that he offers more than Watson does.
We still don't know with Watson, 50 mins gametime in a team that was getting slaughtered is not enough of a chance. We know Jones is no good.
So who plays on Tom Hawkins and Mitch Clarke??
Wood, Tutt, White, Rowe, Armfield etc just too many c graders.
Watson was playing as a forward, so not sure why you are quoting me.
White and Rowe will be given the responsibility of their big forwards.
I expect that if the ball gets that far its game over. I think we are focusing our efforts on the midfield.
IN : Dylan Buckley, Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Patrick Cripps
OUT : Matthew Dick, Matthew Watson, Kristian Jaksch, David Ellard
Picked it in one last week, feel very angry about the way this guy is getting treated.
And what did Liam "The Lionhearted" Jones do last week to warrant a recall ??
Watson was playing as a forward, so not sure why you are quoting me.
White and Rowe will be given the responsibility of their big forwards.
I expect that if the ball gets that far its game over. I think we are focusing our efforts on the midfield.
Agree - either of White or Rowe on Hawkins or Clarke will be a disaster. Train wreck on the way.
By the way is Andrew McKay the 12th man on the deal team?
"I think Henderson will come up"
"Walker should be right to go"
and on and on ..................and it's a complete mystery why a once proud powerhouse of the AFL can't muster 50k of members.
Spare me.
Carlton
B: Dylan Buckley, Sam Rowe, Simon White.
HB: Zach Tuohy, Chris Yarran, Ed Curnow.
C: Dale Thomas, Chris Judd, Kade Simpson.
HF: Dennis Armfield, Bryce Gibbs, Jason Tutt.
F: Troy Menzel, Liam Jones, Patrick Cripps.
Foll: Cameron Wood, Andrew Carrazzo, Marc Murphy.
Int: Tom Bell, Sam Docherty, Levi Casboult, Andrejs Everitt.
Emg: David Ellard, Nick Graham, Robert Warnock.
In: Dylan Buckley, Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Patrick Cripps.
Out: Matthew Dick (Omitted), Matthew Watson (Omitted), Kristian Jaksch (Omitted), David Ellard (Omitted)
Buckley was lucky to get a recall. he didn't do that much last weekend for the Baby Blues. Jones is also very lucky. He did less than Buckley. The 3 who got dropped were quite unlucky. Watson just didn't get a go at all while Dick just wasn't that bad. He even got a few votes in the Jim Park Medal!
I just can't see us winning with this line up.
Geelong Cats
B: Jared Rivers, Tom Lonergan, Jed Bews.
HB: James Kelly, Corey Enright, Harry Taylor.
C: Andrew Mackie, Joel Selwood, Mathew Stokes.
HF: Steven Motlop, Mitch Clark, Jordan Murdoch.
F: Cory Gregson, Tom Hawkins, Darcy Lang.
Foll: Rhys Stanley, Steve Johnson, Josh Caddy
I/C: Mark Blicavs, Cameron Guthrie, Shane Kersten, Jackson Thurlow.
Emg: Sam Blease, Jake Kolodjashnij, Josh Walker.
In: James Kelly, Andrew Mackie, Tom Hawkins.
Out: Mitch Duncan (Foot), Josh Walker (Omitted), Sam Blease (Omitted)
I look at Geelong and I don't see the team that troubled us so badly in recent years, especially in their ruck division, but I just don't see us playing to our potential. I hate that.
Must be playing white and everitt in defence... Crikey we are going to be short down there tomorrow.
We still don't know with Watson, 50 mins gametime in a team that was getting slaughtered is not enough of a chance. We know Jones is no good.
Why do you think we subbed out Watson?
Was it because he was injured? No.
Was it because he had run himself off his legs? No.
Was it because he was giving us nothing out on the ground? Yes.
Now lets address something else.
No, it was not 50 minutes of game time. You say that enough times and people start to believe you. He actually had 57% TOG (Time on Ground). Now, that is not 57 minutes. That game went for 124 minutes. Doing the maths for you, he played just under 71 minutes. What did he do in his 71 minutes? He got 3 touches. That is basically 1 touch a quarter.
I don't care how little the ball got down to the forward line. There were countless times were all 36 players were in one half of the ground. So there were countless times he was within 1 kick of the ball. How many times did he run and present?
You keep screaming to give him a chance. We gave him a chance. He was THAT bad that it was a wasted spot. A spot we can give to someone who appreciates it.
That wasn't a chance. Jones' five games straight is a chance.
That wasn't a chance. Jones' five games straight is a chance.
Do you want to gift players a game who do nothing with them? What kind of message does that send to players who are busting their gut in the 2's?
he played just under 71 minutes. What did he do in his 71 minutes? He got 3 touches. That is basically 1 touch a quarter.
Thats 300% better than Henderson who got zero touches and one tackle in the same time against Collingwood ;D :P
Thats 300% better than Henderson who got zero touches and one tackle in the same time against Collingwood ;D :P
...who hasn't played a game since because he is INJURED!
...who hasn't played a game since because he is INJURED!
Party pooper :P
Watson was playing as a forward, so not sure why you are quoting me.
White and Rowe will be given the responsibility of their big forwards.
I expect that if the ball gets that far its game over. I think we are focusing our efforts on the midfield.
White on Clark or Hawkins?...thats going to end in tears....
No great fan of Jones who has some glaring inadequacies. But Watson was dreadful. He failed to present, and when he made position (slowly) he did not get seperation from his opponent. And then he was out bodied. We found ourselves stuck in the back half without targets because of a failure to present by Watson among others.
Giving players a go is important, it allows the club to assess where they are at. And it is hardly going out on a limb to say Watson will be delisted at season's end. He is not up to league standard. So let's not waste time playing a bloke who has been given 4 seasons plus this year for 20 odd games when we have been desperate for KP players to step up.
The 2010 draft has been a disaster for the club.
We must win the midfield to be any chance. Im confident we will win that bit but our propensity to fluff half our kicks will make it very tough to kick a winning score.
Never said he is the answer. Just saying that he offers more than Watson does.
Very faint praise but Jones will chase and is actually a chance to catch someone. He is also a chance to win a marking
contest - if he gets 2 or 3 chances.
White on Clark or Hawkins?...thats going to end in tears....
I was taken back to a game at Waverley when we played a very good St Kilda side with Tony Lockett at FF and Stu Loewe at CHF. SOS had his hands full with Plugger but received incredible support from one John Dorotich who not only beat Loewe but also filled the hole to support SOS and set up an unlikely Carlton Victory.
Rowe and White need believe in their ability and deliver against the odds.
LOL JK that was Doro and SOS mate, not Rowe and White. They are Detroit Spud City.
Maybe jones has been brought back in to play down back? ???
White goes forward.
I can see a bottle or two of Garage Hermitage being consumed tonight. It will dull the pain.
Maybe jones has been brought back in to play down back? ???
White goes forward.
Don't know what sort of tank Clark has, but if ordinary then the Jones match up would be worth a shot. White is a better option up forward than Jones for sure, can actually catch the thing and is a good kick!
Our bad run with injuries hasn't exactly helped our cause this year...
Do you want to gift players a game who do nothing with them? What kind of message does that send to players who are busting their gut in the 2's?
Jones did nothing in the twos. You tell me what message bringing him back is sending to the group, especially Nick Graham.
Blues by 14... just kidding ;)
Our bad run with injuries hasn't exactly helped our cause this year...
Even so, the system should stack up with or without injuries.
We have always been too reliant on too few, and if they dont fire we havent fared well.
Yes injuries don't help, and everyone gets them, but that should be the difference between winning and losing, not being competitve and getting belted.
This is why I now believe our (as in the collective) arguments about 2012 have been wrong. Some say you can't use injury as an excuse, but this is what they mean. Others want to use injury as an excuse. Sure.
Either way, we lose a few top players and it falls away too fast. We need that to change pronto, because our better performers are not far off retirement, or about to be traded away to bring in draft picks.
Jones did nothing in the twos. You tell me what message bringing him back is sending to the group, especially Nick Graham.
I watched all of the NB game last week and you are dead right. Graham tore it up, and Jones did SFA.
I don't get it.
I reckon you can carry an injury to a player here and there but if you get hit by a bunch to the wrong players, you're forked.
well talk about line in the sand game tonight is the one,carlton fc will stand up tonight.we will play 4q and win and win some respect (LITTLE) back.
Unfortunately we have no chance tonight -zilch.For us to be competitive ,Murphy,Gibbs and Judd has to star and Jones and Casboult need to kick 8 goals between them.Our backilne is a joke ,who will mind Clarke,Rowe will get Hawkins ,I can see Hawkins kicking 5 and that is before 1/2 time.
It will be a very long night
CATS BY 50 POINTS
need to run clark around as for hawk put him down for 3,but in themiddle we have to win the game
I watched all of the NB game last week and you are dead right. Graham tore it up, and Jones did SFA.
I don't get it.
Unless sos has spoken to graham hes safe graham should be speaking to his player manager now....for an exit..
need to run clark around as for hawk put him down for 3,but in themiddle we have to win the game
And the mids must be defensive when they don't have the footy and allow easy ball into Hawkins. If they don't, he could 10.
Why do you think we subbed out Watson?
Was it because he was injured? No.
Was it because he had run himself off his legs? No.
Was it because he was giving us nothing out on the ground? Yes.
Now lets address something else.
No, it was not 50 minutes of game time. You say that enough times and people start to believe you. He actually had 57% TOG (Time on Ground). Now, that is not 57 minutes. That game went for 124 minutes. Doing the maths for you, he played just under 71 minutes. What did he do in his 71 minutes? He got 3 touches. That is basically 1 touch a quarter.
I don't care how little the ball got down to the forward line. There were countless times were all 36 players were in one half of the ground. So there were countless times he was within 1 kick of the ball. How many times did he run and present?
You keep screaming to give him a chance. We gave him a chance. He was THAT bad that it was a wasted spot. A spot we can give to someone who appreciates it.
One got 6 weeks the other got one. If you could do anything on our forward line last week you'd be a genius. Jones did bugger all for weeks yet he's straight back in. With Henderson still out, we don't have alot so why not give Watson another go. He had at least be doing alright with the NB's and did well in his only other go up forward. Jones on the other hand has shown nothing, zip, zero. I'd prefer him to Jones when it gets down to it while Henderson is out.
When it comes down to it we'd have been better keeping Jaksch in and putting him forward. To bring Jones in ahead of him is a joke. Jaksch will have a crack, Jones workrate is poor.
Once again, Jones makes a mockery of this culture argument.
LOL JK that was Doro and SOS mate, not Rowe and White. They are Detroit Spud City.
Ha, yeah....but to be fair Hawkins & Clark are not Lockett & Loewe either. :)
Hawkins is possibly Loewes equivalent.......Clark is just massively overrated.
Hi guys,
Just checked the VFL team & no mention of Humfrey B Bear. This leaves the following options:
1. Did they forget to include him on the team sheets?
2. Is he injured & the club keeping it quiet?
3. Perhaps a late inclusion for the main game?
I have no idea, which of the above is true so make up your own mind.
Below is the VFL team sheets as found on the club web-site
Backs Gowers Watson McGuinness
Half-backs Smith Jaksch Dick
Centreline Viojo-Rainbow Graham Boekhorst
Half-forwards Bransgrove Fields Johnson
Forwards Ellard Foster Walsh
Followers Warnock Holman Whiley
Interchange (from) Wilson Russell Bolger
Dirago Murray Strachan
Wilkinson Aurrichio** Johnston
Unfortunately we have no chance tonight -zilch.For us to be competitive ,Murphy,Gibbs and Judd has to star and Jones and Casboult need to kick 8 goals between them.Our backilne is a joke ,who will mind Clarke,Rowe will get Hawkins ,I can see Hawkins kicking 5 and that is before 1/2 time.
It will be a very long night
CATS BY 50 POINTS
I'll be completely ignoring this match & having dinner with my wife instead.....sick of being a foul mood leading into the weekend ....refuse to allow it anymore.
If I wake up to a surprise result saturday morning...I'll be surprised !
Once again, Jones makes a mockery of this culture argument.
Yup, kruds, ol' chum, time to pack it in and join the dark side.
Hi guys,
Just checked the VFL team & no mention of Humfrey B Bear. This leaves the following options:
1. Did they forget to include him on the team sheets?
2. Is he injured & the club keeping it quiet?
3. Perhaps a late inclusion for the main game?
Not named as an emergency for tonight so I doubt we'll see him
Sore calves apparently.
Not sure what that's 'code' for ???
(Edit: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/vfl/carlton-opt-to-rest-matthew-kreuzer-from-vfl-20150522-gh7giz.html)
Rested
Not sure what that's 'code' for either ???
Yup, kruds, ol' chum, time to pack it in and join the dark side.
(https://thatisevil.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/4474065261_4f95455a3d_z.jpg)
Not named as an emergency for tonight so I doubt we'll see him
Sore calves apparently.
Not sure what that's 'code' for ???
(Edit: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/vfl/carlton-opt-to-rest-matthew-kreuzer-from-vfl-20150522-gh7giz.html)
Rested
Not sure what that's 'code' for either ???
At Carlton? 6 weeks is my guess
At Carlton? 6 weeks is my guess
then they'll wonder why the members drop off.
JUST TELL US THE FRIGGIN TRUTH!
i saw kruezer at the curtain raiser last week - gingerly - not intense
i said he was cooked 12 months ago - i have no reason to change my view..
(https://thatisevil.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/4474065261_4f95455a3d_z.jpg)
It's OK, I'm being treated well.
Yup, kruds, ol' chum, time to pack it in and join the dark side.
Yeh fork it, I'm in too.
The farce is strong in these ones :D
The farce is strong in these ones :D
OMG that's one of the funniest comments I've read on here!!
I'm not looking forward to this, it will be ugly.
As for Watson he's a spud, another first round draft pick up in smoke, we could give him a run of 15 games straight and he'd still be a spud.
And as for our abysmal recruiting the woes continue, the man we traded pick 7 for can't get a game in one of the weakest Carlton teams in living memory and our "ready to go" first rounder is also in the VFL.
Cripps is the only pick we've got right in the last 4 or 5 years, is it any wonder we can't win games?
I'm not looking forward to this, it will be ugly.
As for Watson he's a spud, another first round draft pick up in smoke, we could give him a run of 15 games straight and he'd still be a spud.
And as for our abysmal recruiting the woes continue, the man we traded pick 7 for can't get a game in one of the weakest Carlton teams in living memory and our "ready to go" first rounder is also in the VFL.
Cripps is the only pick we've got right in the last 4 or 5 years, is it any wonder we can't win games?
Menzel and Yarran were good picks. The rest have been disgraceful.
As for Watson he's a spud, another first round draft pick up in smoke, we could give him a run of 15 games straight and he'd still be a spud.
Well you can't really say that as he hasn't even played five straight has he?
Menzel and Yarran were good picks. The rest have been disgraceful.
The jury's out on Menzel in my opinion, he shows flashes but goes missing, Yarran is a star but it's not easy to stuff up pick 6 even for the CFC.
When was the last time we got even a decent player in the second, third or fourth round?
It's been that bad you get to thinking someone inside the club is sabotaging us.
Well you can't really say that as he hasn't even played five straight has he?
He can't even fire up in the VFL Carrots, it's a bitter pill to swallow that we've blown another first rounder but he's a spud mate.
People were waiting for Hampson to explode on the scene as well, he's another spud.
Hampson... It's not often a player leaves us and goes backwards...
Carrazzo out, Warnock in.
Please, can someone explain to me why Warnock would replace Carrazzo? Please.
Nick Graham... stop flirting with the coach's wife.
Carrazzo out, Warnock in.
Please, can someone explain to me why Warnock would replace Carrazzo? Please.
Nick Graham... stop flirting with the coach's wife.
With Warnock in, Casboult is able to play FF for the entire game - first time this is going to happen, which is positive. Pity we don't have a CHB tonight.
Cannot believe that once again this lot have brought in Warnock as a late replacement, it hasn't worked yet so why persist? This club is one more stupid decision away from loosing me forever, I now hate watching them and I have bled blue since 1969...
Carrazzo out, Warnock in.
Please, can someone explain to me why Warnock would replace Carrazzo? Please.
Yep
He's going to play a run-with role on Selwood ;D
Sacrifice his own game
No.... JD's probably got it right in terms of roles.
Not sure we'll see anything too different though.
Bucks sub!!! Scratching my head at some of these decisions but what would I know :o
Bucks will get 13 touches in the last quarter and be dropped next week...
Hampson... It's not often a player leaves us and goes backwards...
He hasn't, he's playing in the VFL which is where he played most of his football at Carlton.
We got Docherty for him, I still can't believe it.
Warnock in is just an indication of the state of our list, he's another dud that cost us a good draft pick.
Oh well, may not need to worry about MM's selections after we lose tonight. Ch7 news reporting a rift btw MM and CEO/Prez at boiling point following MM's presser comments yesterday RE rebuild. Trigg was on 3AW, suffice to say "not happy Jan". My feeling is MM will be gone next week.
This game game gives me the visual of a Mortal Kombat finisher. We are just standing, dazed, wobbling waiting for the words FINISH HIM to pop up before having a harpoon thrown into our chest and out heart ripped out.
I seriously hope we catch that harpoon and hurl it back where it came from! COME ONE BLUE BAGGERS!!!!!
He hasn't, he's playing in the VFL which is where he played most of his football at Carlton.
We got Docherty for him, I still can't believe it.
Warnock in is just an indication of the state of our list, he's another dud that cost us a good draft pick.
I actually don't mind Warnock and unlike most, prefer him to Cameron Wood. When we were playing well a couple of years ago, Warnock was our number one ruckman and he moves surprisingly well around the ground.
Once again, Jones makes a mockery of this culture argument.
How? To me it strengthens it.
Jones tries.
Watson doesn't.
Jones will run, present, chase and tackle.
Watson will stand there with his hand in the air.
Mick doesn't have too many options at present, but if given the choice between someone who puts in, and someone who doesn't...its an easy call!
This doesn't mean Jones is the answer to our issues, it just means that Watson isn't.
Carrazzo out, Warnock in.
Please, can someone explain to me why Warnock would replace Carrazzo? Please.
Nick Graham... stop flirting with the coach's wife.
Ideally we would want a KPP coming in like Hendo or Jamo....or Kreuzer. We are a bit light on for talls this week. At least this allows Casboult to play forward all game....and have Wood as help. Rather than play alternate with Wood.
Just listened to Trigger on MMM, very, very impressive. Didn't dodge and weave. Admitted being perplexed with MM comments this week.
Gave me confidence (re his responses ..and not so many clichés!) the honesty and strength he showed.
Just listened to Trigger on MMM, very, very impressive. Didn't dodge and weave. Admitted being perplexed with MM comments this week.
Gave me confidence (re his responses ..and not so many clichés!) the honesty and strength he showed.
Can't have confidence in anyone anymore.
Not from Carlton. The ones that talk well have a silver forked tongue and the others just flat out lie.
How? To me it strengthens it.
Jones tries.
Watson doesn't.
Jones will run, present, chase and tackle.
Watson will stand there with his hand in the air.
Mick doesn't have too many options at present, but if given the choice between someone who puts in, and someone who doesn't...its an easy call!
This doesn't mean Jones is the answer to our issues, it just means that Watson isn't.
Right now you seem to get everything wrong. The biggest criticism of Jones is his lack of workrate. I laughed when you say that was his strength. Even Barry Hall said that was a big problem when he was at the Dogs on one of the telecasts. Plus he's kicks as badly as Casboult right now.
Not a great choice but I'd still go with Watson of the two and that's not saying alot. Been better to bring Jaksch back in if they wanted a tall.
Good interview with Jammo on SEN, sounds like a good assistant coach in the making.
Right now you seem to get everything wrong. The biggest criticism of Jones is his lack of workrate. I laughed when you say that was his strength. Even Barry Hall said that was a big problem when he was at the Dogs on one of the telecasts. Plus he's kicks as badly as Casboult right now.
Not a great choice but I'd still go with Watson of the two and that's not saying alot. Been better to bring Jaksch back in if they wanted a tall.
are you really that narrow minded?
It didn't take much to get a game ahead of Watson.
We called it before the game.
You would get less out of Watson than you would Jones.
We are going in far too tall. No wonder we lack run.
Right now you seem to get everything wrong. The biggest criticism of Jones is his lack of workrate. I laughed when you say that was his strength. Even Barry Hall said that was a big problem when he was at the Dogs on one of the telecasts. Plus he's kicks as badly as Casboult right now.
Not a great choice but I'd still go with Watson of the two and that's not saying alot. Been better to bring Jaksch back in if they wanted a tall.
If you ever agreed with me, i'd have to check myself in to the men in white coats.
The majority of the time you don't even read what i write. If you do you clearly don't understand it.
The rest of the time you are so narrow minded that even if Chris Judd told you otherwise, you wouldn't believe it.
Keep on trucking Jim the great.
Warnock in????? You're f.....g kidding me >:(
When we start arguing about Jones V Watson, you know we're in trouble. I'm pretty sure when the SC chooses the side and has to decide between these two, it's all about the lesser of two evils.
2.8 out of 10 versus 2.9 out of 10.
Warnock for Carrazzo.... officially taking the p1ss!!
Probably, as PD posted, gives Meat the chance to be THE forward and not play ruck. Our selection would be hoping this gives the Pussy Cats a headache.
Our headache is our selection committee.
Warnock for Carrots,,,like for like.
Foxfooty crew are laughing at us.
When we start arguing about Jones V Watson, you know we're in trouble.
This, and you can throw in Warnock V Wood.
Foxfooty crew are laughing at us.
So were Carey, Ling and Hammer at the selection of Warnock. Carey was particularly scathing and joked and laughed about it.
As the game commences tonight, there is only one club that is a basket case, an embarrassment.
Nobody has given us a snowballs chance in hell.
The entire footballing world is laughing at us.
There is no optimism from Carlton folk inside and outside of the inner sanctum...including us on here.
Its the perfect storm for Carlton to win and screw everyone over....which will probably be more frustrating than a 10-goal defeat! ???