http://www.sen.com.au/news/07-15/patrick-smith-blasts-ordinary-carlton
Forgetting the bias against the author....I'll take the pick if he can arrange it.
“I think that club is in real trouble, forget about priority picks to Brisbane there’s your problem club, Carlton,” said Smith.
“It’s probably one of the worst Carlton sides, I thought they were pathetic.
“This is an awful list.”
He doesn't miss anyone...
“This is such an ordinary group of footballers and I think they’re an ordinary collection of blokes in terms of how much they want to give the footy club,’ said Smith on SEN radio.
“My reaction to all of this is that Carlton is absolutely no good and to up to AFL elite measures – and I’m talking about board, football department, coaching and recruiting.”
Smith went further and said that the AFL should consider the Blues as the club in most need of serious help, both financially and maybe even via draft selections.
http://www.sen.com.au/news/07-15/patrick-smith-blasts-ordinary-carlton
Forgetting the bias against the author....I'll take the pick if he can arrange it.
I take everything Patrick Smith says with more than a grain of salt; more like a Dead Sea worth. However, if he wishes to let us have a decent pick, I'll take it as well. Never look a gift horse in the mouth, they say. :)
To be honest, I think Smith is just trying to take the heat off his beloved B*mmers and our performance was handy.
As for his claims about sacking Malthouse and the state of our list: Malthouse has to take his fair share of the blame there. We recruited certain players and certain types of players under his direct and specific wishes. We did not try hard enough to retain others, again, with his considerable input. He was the head coach and we recruited to suit his directives. So, if our list is crap (and it is), and we were playing with no heart (and we were not playing with any heart at all), removing Malthouse would seem to be a reasonable step.
Smith cannot blame our head recruiters: we have already parted way with them. He can continue to blame the victims as much as he likes but it won't improve our list.
On the other hand, if the AFL wants to help us (and what a shock that would be!), I am quite willing to be helped. Resources we would otherwise be unable to get would be accepted with thanks and humility.
As for Priority Picks, I don't know that they would either us or Brisbane per se. Both we and Brisbane have issues at the moment that do not make us clubs that players want to play for. Fixing that would be more important than anything else. But if they want to give us a decent pick, I will accept it also with good grace.
I doubt that we will get help or a priority pick: the AFL have had too much of a hand in our present problems for me to believe that they will come through. But if it takes being abused in the media by morons who know nothing (and are quite willing to let everyone know that by opening their mouths at every opportunity) to get something worth while, then I am quite willing to be abused.
I can't see them giving us a priority pick either.
We won a finals match the year before last.
We played finals in 3 of the 4 years before that.
You need a sustained period of 'bottom dwelling' for that pick to come into play.
thats being arranged
and might i say ....it wont be hard either
Smith is a goose but I'll take the priority picks if he can arrange them with the AFL...
He must have been spending a fair bit of time on this site! ;)
He's gone pretty soft compared to what goes on here :)) bring on the PPs!!!
smith is on the money....
the board is fundamental to our problems since 1979....
Smith is a goose but I'll take the priority picks if he can arrange them with the AFL...
I think he has some valid points, particularly when discussing the Bombers
A good start would be picks 1 and 2 this year (Weitering and Schache). Maybe another 1st rounder there also to use on someone like McKay, Burton, Balic, Curnow or Weideman perhaps.
Get the building blocks right.
Ah, Mr Smith... another to join the long queue of kicking Carlton when we are essentially in ICU.
The bottom line is that even with our "best" side on the park we struggle to be competitive against the bulk of the other sides. I think Friday's result drove home to the AFL that there are other clubs that contribute in a serious way to the bottom line and the old adage "a strong Carlton is a strong competition" rings true. With the next TV rights deal coming up you can bet that more demonstrations of the segregated competition will not help procure the best deal for the AFL.
The interstate clubs (WA, SA) are money making machines... the others get propped up by the AFL from monies generated by the successful Melbourne clubs and having a traditional powerhouse in the cellar for an extended period really bites the bottom line.
After watching Melbourne score, and largely squander, concessions I can't see how we will get a priority pick but gees if any club ever needed one we do. Giving us a pick for Waite last year was an obvious means to assist and I reman staggered that this did not eventuate...
I think the anti-Carlton stance from the AFL has already waned a bit - how else did we score so many marquee Friday night timeslots? I await with interest to see if the position continues to soften as our on and off-field positions become increasingly parlous.
Brisbane and Gold Coast were expected to finish much higher than us.
Yet they are talking concessions for both of them as finishing in the cellar is "bad for Qld football"... seriously, one mob drafted Christensen, Beams and Robinson and the other has had the wheels fall off through internal strife and their best player breaking down.... sheesh, gimme a break. Plus they have academies in skinny draft.... how much more????
Yet they are talking concessions for both of them as finishing in the cellar is "bad for Qld football"... seriously, one mob drafted Christensen, Beams and Robinson and the other has had the wheels fall off through internal strife and their best player breaking down.... sheesh, gimme a break. Plus they have academies in skinny draft.... how much more????
As for Smith, often his comments can be disregarded but I doubt he can be accused of deflecting attention from the Bumbers in this case. Smith has been quite outspoken about clearing the decks at EFC as well, and his Carlton comments are not far off the mark! Under MM we have disposed of bad boys who could play football in favor of a bunch of nice blokes with potential who fail to deliver.
The clubs he mentions have as big of a culture problem as Carlton, but Carlton has another problem.
Carlton reminds me of the state that English cricket was in before Marsh hardened them up. All tea and scones and no substance, now that Marsh is back in Oz English cricket has given the only bloke who pushed back(Pietersen) the kibosh because of team disunity. They are reverting to play nice and we won't be hurt mentality, let's be friends, in other words they are becoming road kill! Sound familiar?
Teams and clubs go through this cycle, you need the bad boys playing well, like England needed Tony Greig, Bob Willis, Ian Botham, Kevin Pietersen and Freddy Flintoff.
Carlton needed blokes like Robinson, Waite and Garlett because they are the way they are, but our club put them in the too hard basket and gave them the flick. If they also happen to be very good footballers like a Hodge and Lewis then even better!
In our glory days we had players like John Nicholls, Serg Silvagni, Rhys-Jones, Greg Williams, Wayne Johnston, Jim Buckley, Mark Maclure, etc., etc.. Cripps is the first player I have seen for sometime at Carlton with this nasty side, a desire to push back and hurt opponents when pushed! Graham shows some potential as well.
If you don't own a dog, you can't set them loose!
I don't think Smith was far off the mark but who really gives a ship what he reckons. If Hawks win the flag again in a canter then the AFL needs to do something drastic regarding equalisation. If it means giving out priority picks then I won't say no.
The problem is Melbourne was getting hammered worse than us for longer, asked for a PP and ggot knocked back.
Anyway, cat is out of the bag now, I expect some frightful smashings ahead now there is a whiff of PPs in the air. A couple more journos on our side would help. This is where Maguire would be gold as pres.
The problem is Melbourne was getting hammered worse than us for longer, asked for a PP and ggot knocked back.
Anyway, cat is out of the bag now, I expect some frightful smashings ahead now there is a whiff of PPs in the air. A couple more journos on our side would help. This is where Maguire would be gold as pres.
Melbourne were beating us in that period though. :P I think the AFL will look at the outs we have at the moment and it'll get knocked back.
I don't think Smith was far off the mark but who really gives a ship what he reckons. If Hawks win the flag again in a canter then the AFL needs to do something drastic regarding equalisation. If it means giving out priority picks then I won't say no.
Our club cannot survive on this basis....a culture of mediocrity
I just don't think you can go from a finalist (albeit because of another club's penalty) to being "priority pick worthy" in two seasons.
That's not what priority picks are built for ;)
I just don't think you can go from a finalist (albeit because of another club's penalty) to being "priority pick worthy" in two seasons.
That's not what priority picks are built for ;)
Rules can be changed and new ones can be made for individual clubs. Look what they did to the Swans with their trade ban. It doesn't have to be called a "Priority Pick", it can be called "Compensation for James Frawley" or "Equalisation for Free Agents and Academy players going to the top clubs".
I don't want us to rely on this but we need something to undo all the damage that has been done. So I would like to see us apply to the AFL for a "Hughes & Rogers sympathy pick".
Rules can be changed and new ones can be made for individual clubs. Look what they did to the Swans with their trade ban. It doesn't have to be called a "Priority Pick", it can be called "Compensation for James Frawley" or "Equalisation for Free Agents and Academy players going to the top clubs".
I don't want us to rely on this but we need something to undo all the damage that has been done. So I would like to see us apply to the AFL for a "Hughes & Rogers sympathy pick".
I was thinking the other day that there must be a dark low place to which a club can descend that it is impossible to recover from under the present AFL rules. In other words, the club becomes completely unviable. I don't know whether we are anywhere near that, Fatprick Smith thinks we are, but surely the AFL would then need to make the call to either turn off the life support or to apply emergency intensive resuscitation? I obviously don't want to see either of those outcomes unless we were a true basket case, and this year will tell us a lot about that come draft and trade time.
I was thinking the other day that there must be a dark low place to which a club can descend that it is impossible to recover from under the present AFL rules. In other words, the club becomes completely unviable. I don't know whether we are anywhere near that, Fatprick Smith thinks we are, but surely the AFL would then need to make the call to either turn off the life support or to apply emergency intensive resuscitation? I obviously don't want to see either of those outcomes unless we were a true basket case, and this year will tell us a lot about that come draft and trade time.
I don't think it would ever get to the stage where we disappeared completely....but I've got a bad feeling that it might take us "going to the brink" for Carlton people to wake up and take some action.
That destination is called Fitzroy and it wasn't that long ago.
Sadly Smith was on the money.
Carlton have fallen behind the most in areas where the best clubs have excelled in the past decade. We often refer to the draft as the basis for sustained success and no doubt this is important. But the likes of hawthorn, geelong and sydney determined this well over a decade ago and as well as the draft invested significantly in training, development and the quality of their support organisations.
The three above clubs have certainly found some fine draft picks, but they have also had plenty of failures too. They have this century looked for other areas to make marginal gains, and maintained this with organisations that support continuous improvement.
A priority pick for carlton would be great. But without significant improvement in a host of other areas it would make little difference.
If Carlton is to realise success in the future we are going to have to make enormous strides and leap frog the competition. A good comparison from another sport is that of team Sky in professional road cycling. When most other professional teams were still mopping up in the aftermath of the drug soaked era of the late 1990s and early 2000s, Sky took an alternate path and invested heavily in coaching and data analysis to support training, not to mention a big bag of cash. They are now reaping the rewards, having had 3 winners of the Tour de France in the past few years.
Something radical has to occur, and it is way beyond getting an excellent head coach appointed and some good draft picks. For we could do a great job in these areas yet still find ourselves mid ladder in 6 years wondering where we went wrong.
Things turn around fast. Port Adelaide after they got Hinkley, Bulldogs this year, although they weren't quite as bad. Side does look a bit better when players are on the ground and not in the stands. Important here we make the right appointment. Right coach can turn things around very quickly like Hinkley and Beverige. Others may turn it gradually like Hardwick. Right appointment though is vital. Wrong coach will kills us for years.
If Gillon had a big enough mouth in an interview with the press yesterday to state our loss against Hawthorn can not be allowed to happen. It being bad for our club, our supporters, for the AFL as a brand, and for the media. Having a future effect on numbers through the gates for future games. He better consider what influence he has to help us in our time of need. Give us compensation with a priority pick. We got nothing for Waite, Garlett and Robinson if you look at things. Then we lose our best player in Judd who has thrown in the towel after a serious injury. Even our best list will need lots of work to become competitive.
A new coach could turn things around. However if Gillon considers we could be a power side with rival competitions against, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Geelong, Richmond and others like the past he would have to be dreaming as it might not happen for another 4 to 5 years. The biggest problem of the past if the trend continues, we use our first few picks to get absolutely nothing or near enough to nothing.
Its time for more bad publicity, to wake up the board members. They need to find a solid fix, and they need to go. Give us a fresh start with a board that actually functions like a professional unit. Get the best coaching group. Best fitness and strength coaches. Best recruiters to assist SOS, and start a real rebuild.
I just don't think you can go from a finalist (albeit because of another club's penalty) to being "priority pick worthy" in two seasons.
That's not what priority picks are built for ;)
Not it's not what they are for.
However, the fact is we are a complete mess. What is in the AFL's best interests? Watching ANOTHER year of us getting 10-goal thumpings every week....perhaps for a few years...
or
...get this ship turned around quicksmart.
As for Melbourne NOT getting one....thats half true. The compensation they got for Frawley was half his compo and half a PP packaged up in one under the guise of compo for Frawley.
Alternatively, we got squat for Waite.
I'm not sure how much research Smith has done into the behind the scenes/bank balance type stuff, but i reckon the 2 clubs up north are in a lot worse financial position compared to us.
If those clubs get PP and we don't then there will be hell to pay... and we should make sure all and sundry know about it.
Hard to believe anyone would challenge Smith on his comments/observations. He's right. If we dare to be objective, he's painfully right.
And here's the litmus test, from our list, who are the blokes who would get a gig now at any top 6 side?
Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Thomas... ah, that is all!
Can someone just punch Gibson in the guts next time we play them? At least I can smile after that.
Hard to believe anyone would challenge Smith on his comments/observations. He's right. If we dare to be objective, he's painfully right.
And here's the litmus test, from our list, who are the blokes who would get a gig now at any top 6 side?
Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Thomas... ah, that is all!
Thomas? Are you serious?
Hard to believe anyone would challenge Smith on his comments/observations. He's right. If we dare to be objective, he's painfully right.
And here's the litmus test, from our list, who are the blokes who would get a gig now at any top 6 side?
Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Thomas... ah, that is all!
Sometimes it's surprising. Laidler is sitting nicely in the Swans side, and a so called dud from Richmond, Mitch Morton, played well in a Swans premiership side. Some go better in other sides.
Can someone just punch Gibson in the guts next time we play them? At least I can smile after that.
We should have gone after Gibson when he did the deed and kept after him all night..it was embarrassing watching us be bullied by the Hawks..I can take losing but not flying the flag is
a disgrace. Everytime any of their players got a tap we had Lewis and Hodge in our faces letting us know whose boss......not good enough IMO and poor Boeky must be thinking no one has has back...
Thomas is damaged goods and would not get a gig with any club apart from ours ever again. He was a huge risk that hasn't quite paid off yet. Patrick Smith is not saying anything that isn't true. Its about time people listen and do something about it. We can't let Victorian sides struggle to the point that they need to hand the keys back to the AFL. South Melbourne managed to get out of jail. However they would have lost many supporters along the way. Brisbane/Old Fitzroy is struggling even though they have 3 flags since the take over, I mean merge. How many Fitzroy players were kept ? Half a dozen. Lynch and a few others ?
The Victorian sides are disadvantaged by the current system. Recruiting/academy players and picks. Salary cap. Living away from home allowances to interstate sides. All of these issues make it difficult for Victorian clubs to exist long term. Its bad enough the trade pool is feels shallow with so many sides in the league.
Then you have clubs that can't run a professional unit like our club. We need to act fast and the AFL need to assist in any way it can. Dillon has a big mouth to state how poor our club is at the moment. Step up to the plate and help us sort things out. Help support the sides that started this game more than 100 years ago. The sides that built the foundation of the best sport in the entire world. Its your duty to keep this game where it should be.
Otherwise with poor numbers through the gates you lose money. Broadcast negotiations for the future will drop. Sponsors will be limited and lose interest. Clubs lose money and need finance help from the AFL. Its lose on all levels. Just look at some of the poor numbers through the gates this season. Its a joke for a national sport. Obviously interstate games are expected to be lower. However the crowds appear lower, and the atmosphere sounds dead and lost from seasons years ago.
Crowds for Collingwood vs Carlton years ago would have 90,000 plus at Waverley Park. Not the MCG. At Arctic Park. I doubt we would see more than 45,000 go to the MCG in round 19. Half of what we would see when the clubs were on an even level, and true rivals. They were the good old days.
We should have gone after Gibson when he did the deed and kept after him all night..it was embarrassing watching us be bullied by the Hawks..I can take losing but not flying the flag is
a disgrace. Everytime any of their players got a tap we had Lewis and Hodge in our faces letting us know whose boss......not good enough IMO and poor Boeky must be thinking no one has has back...
yep, we are p155 weak.
yep, we are p155 weak.
You cant expect murphy gibbs jamison carazzo henderson thuouy to fly the flag....
You cant expect murphy gibbs jamison carazzo henderson thuouy to fly the flag....
...and we can't expect you to make a post that is based on any form of logic.
You are wrong on multiple fronts, but Tuohy has never taken a backwards step in his life and Carrazzo is almost always one of the first to stand up for a teammate.
...and we can't expect you to make a post that is based on any form of logic.
You are wrong on multiple fronts, but Tuohy has never taken a backwards step in his life and Carrazzo is almost always one of the first to stand up for a teammate.
Absolutele bs mate....your opinions are as weak as our club atm...
Murphy gets beaten up all the time and no one stands up for him....
Clubs beat us up for years....hawks...geelong...mooney on sen said carlton was known as soft. ..u get into em...they turn to water. ..
We are too clean not soft. No thugs, but if we do anything we get stomped on by the MRP and media. We need some hard nasty thugs who can play.
We are too clean not soft. No thugs, but if we do anything we get stomped on by the MRP and media. We need some hard nasty thugs who can play.
I guess we will have to just cop some suspensions to make our point and to lose the 'soft' tag!
yep, we are p155 weak.
But the coaching staff need to tell the players to do this (fly the flag, stick up for your team mates) - repeatedly if need be, sure, it should be 2nd nature but with our bunch, sadly, it isn't.......
The Hawks aren't even a physically imposing team, but we act like wimpy doge every time. it's a mental thing.
So, can anyone tell me why Wood wasn't picked against the Hawks?
...and we can't expect you to make a post that is based on any form of logic.
You are wrong on multiple fronts, but Tuohy has never taken a backwards step in his life and Carrazzo is almost always one of the first to stand up for a teammate.
Who supported boekhorst when gibson punched his guts?
Nobody. .....
Who supported boekhorst when gibson punched his guts?
Nobody. .....
Who saw it? It was behind play
Who saw it? It was behind play
This incident is a classic example of why we r rubbish...
No one supported the young recruit.
Worst.thing. ..gibson punched him in front of the carlton members...
Holman copped a suspension and well done to him for showing a little crudeness.
Yazz dropped Chapman.
Both were great hits in their own special way.
Holman copped a suspension and well done to him for showing a little crudeness.
Yazz dropped Chapman.
Both were great hits in their own special way.
Holman hit him with his bicep. ..not hand...garbage decision by the Tribunal. ..but gibson was such a cheap shot for a 1st year afl player deserves a square up in 6 weeks. ..
This incident is a classic example of why we r rubbish...
No one supported the young recruit.
Worst.thing. ..gibson punched him in front of the carlton members...
I understand the point you are making, and i don't disagree with it as a whole, but your 'examples' are some of the most laughable ones you could've used.
Further to that, you bring up an incident that occured behind play as justification.
Which carlton players saw the Gibson punch??
.
.
.
.
.
.
....Nobody...ok, so how were they expected to stick up for him?
Oh for the good old days of the Blues! I remember one day at the "G" Rhys-Jones decking the then Melbourne favourite son, Robbie Flower (RIP) right in front of the members stand. We were anything but timid in those days. :))
I remember Jon Dorotich & earl Spalding making a few guys look over there shoulder at time as well Cookie