Carlton Supporters Club

Hogan will win for sure.
Look at the selection panel.

Hogan will win for sure.
Look at the selection panel.

Who is on the selection panel?

He won't be 2nd in their B&F.

You should ve heard the way the commentators were gushing about Hogan yesterday.
The next Wayne Carey apparently.
He ll win because he's the first tall forward for a while to be good this early.
But when was the last time he dominated a game, the way Cripps dominates the midfield ?

If he doesn't win it (which i don't think he will - but he should) it will work to our advantage. For the rest of his career he will be out to prove everyone wrong and that he is better than Hogan.

I think he has had a better season this year than Hogan has. He hasn't gone missing as often and has been a stand out in his better games. Hogan kicking 3 goals on the weekend might just get him over the line. How the hell do the majority of the commentators state Hogan should win it by a mile ? Seriously, by a mile ?

Paul Roos said on 360 that he doesn't understand how it's a debate. When Robbo talked up Cripps Roos said well yeah I respect opinions and haven't seen Cripps play much but based on what Hogan has done its not a debate.

but what Jesse has done has never been done before.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=3916&tid2=25&pid2=3774&type=T&fid1=O&fid2=O

That really annoyed me. He went on to say that Hogan has done something no first year forward has done ever so he should win. How about 19 games to reach 35 touches, all the contested possession stats etc. Really hate Roos being so matter of fact about it. Needs to pull his head out of his ar5e.

Paul Roos said on 360 that he doesn't understand how it's a debate. When Robbo talked up Cripps Roos said well yeah I respect opinions and haven't seen Cripps play much but based on what Hogan has done its not a debate.

Roos is a grub!
Money hungry, self centred grub.
I'll never coach again, I'm a swans man right up until they cut his academy wage from 600k down to 250k and off he goes. Now he wants to hold a position at the demons so he can keep his nose in the trough.

......and his blame shifting while he's been at the Dees is MM at his best.

Thought there was a rumour we (some board heavyweight)had said the CFC job was his when he finished at Melb.

Might be why he has the dirts with us.

The Melbourne coach obviously doesn't take a lot of notice of good opposition players, their strengths and weaknesses.

Could be why Melbourne has had such a great year. ;) ;D

Had his eyes closed when they played us obviously as well.

......and his blame shifting while he's been at the Dees is MM at his best.

Thought there was a rumour we (some board heavyweight)had said the CFC job was his when he finished at Melb.

Might be why he has the dirts with us.

I know he's sticking up for his man, but it's hard not see this as just another example of Roos' never ending hostility towards CFC.

I'd love to see Cripps win, and I think he deserves it. But f you look through the list of past winners, whilst there are some handy players there, there are champs that don't win it as well. No Judd, no Ablett Jr, no Hodge, to name a few.

No biggie IMO.

Exactly!! It's only a "nice to have" IMO. It's what comes later that counts.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2015-09-08/rising-star-could-be-a-tie-says-afl

Ahh, yet again the AFL goes the soft out!

The AFL has more soft pull-outs than a pensioner in a brothel!

Normally I don't care about these silly awards... but I've got $10 on Cripps to win! Seriously though, with all the media love for Hogan, it seems like the decision has been made.

Agree - if you follow the media, Cripps doesn't even exist.

Fork Roos pissed me off big time with his refusal to even acknowledge Cripps last night. What an arrogant flog.

Fair suck of the sauce bottle.

Problem we have is Cripps is up against a young full forward, who has kicked 40+ goals as a young KP player. That puts him behind to start with as KP is much more difficult for a young bloke.

A tie would be a nice result as they both deserve it.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/patrick-cripps-tells-fox-footy-he-wants-to-be-a-one-club-player-at-carlton/story-e6frf3e3-1227516752445 (http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/patrick-cripps-tells-fox-footy-he-wants-to-be-a-one-club-player-at-carlton/story-e6frf3e3-1227516752445)

Cripps has effectively been a one man midfield for the second half of the season. He has had zero support, had to wear a tag and he certainly hasn't had the ball kicked to him on a constant basis. I don't buy into the key position BS, the best player is the best player, Cripps has done so much more.

Problem will be whether the panel judge it on a midfielder v KPP basis and give the latter extra weighting. Cripps has been outstanding. Was half expecting an AA nomination in the 40 player list.

Voting should have nothing to do with the position they play in. It should be a multi attribute analysis that takes many factors into account. If they have sorted the criteria out by now, they should be having the award. When you hear DHs like Carey say "I would pick the CHF over a mid because the position is harder to play", it makes you cringe. Not because he was a KPF and may be biased, but because it defies logic. It then means the award should de renamed "Rising Key Position Star Award" and midfielders and Ruckmen should be ineligible. I thought Carey was smarter than that. Perhaps not.

Don't worry about the ideology of what should and shouldn't be taken into account, we're dealing with reality and you can bet your ass it will be taken into account.

It is harder to play key position, that's why it takes so much longer for big blokes to develop. Even so, Cripps has been outstanding and no reason why he shouldn't win, as good as Hogan's been in a tough position. Cripps, in reality should've been close to AA and poll as well as any midfielder in the Brownlow, as he's been as good as any of them.

I reckon the Crippler should have made the AA squad.   How many mids won games off their backs this year?

It's equally hard to play in the midfield and cop a hard tag most games.  It's also hard for a young bloke to take over as the main inside mid and be as productive as the injured champion who had the role.

Jimbo I honestly believe what Cripps has been doing is harder to do than what Hogan has been doing. Hogan would IMO need at least 60 goals to equal Cripps' output in the midfield. The way Whately was saying 'oh but Hogan has 44 goals' big fk!! It's only 44 goals, not like he has been dominating like the Crippologist.

I know that, you know that but will the panel see that.

To save face it will be a tie, you will see

About 1/2 the voting panel are the same set of blokes who gave Krakouer 2011 Mark of the Year over 1AWs Super Grab, anyone Carlton is virtually stuffed under such conditions. :o

Has voting started yet?

49-41
Wouldn't that read that 9 out of 10 voted for Hogan?

That's correct, 9 out of 10 clearly had Hogan the winner. Hard to imagine given the seasons they had isn't it?

It's a fix, no doubt about it, in a year the AFL predicted a draw the voting is one-sided.

But then this is the same organization that runs the MRP.

Both of them are guns and either would have deserved the win, I'm not fazed by it.
Lewis Taylor beat Marcus Bontempelli last year but if you had to choose one to play for Carlton Bontempelli would get my vote.

So there are up to 22 players who are eligible.

From there 10 guys rank their top 5.

The player most highly ranked, in a very group think driven environment, gets the nod.

This is so subjective, how many of those numbnuts watched more than a quarter of the games each of these guys played?

Bigger fish to fry for thr Crippler than a bogus award.

9 out of 10 judges gave Hogan full votes... wow!

Look who the judges were.
Still wondering why Cripps lost ?

Yep
Let's move on
No big deal
We know who we'd rather have.

KB is on radio saying he thinks Cripps, but this year KB is a voter in the award. Even if Carlton won a match by 50 goals KB would probably give the votes to an opposition player!

Judd, Pendlebury, Beams... All Runners up.

So KB is the only one that gave Cripps top votes  ::)

KB said he thought Cripps would win, doesn't mean he gave Cripps 5. As if he would??

Is there a formula that judges have to follow?
Is it based on potential or based on the year that they have had?

I think, (don't know) it is 10 judges who all vote 5,4,3,2,1 each.

If true, only 1 out of the 10 had Cripps ahead of Hogan.

I guess if you look on the bright side that means the others all had him second.

I think, (don't know) it is 10 judges who all vote 5,4,3,2,1 each from the 22 or 23 nominated players throughout the year.

If true, only 1 out of the 10 had Cripps ahead of Hogan.

How idealistic are 27 of the voters on this forum?

Unfortunately, all of us who know better voted no, and were proven correct.

I was actually hoping we would all be wrong and for the faith in humanity to be restored, but this award has left me dead cold.

That is correct correct.

I think I read that the same same ten judges vote 5,4,3,2,1 each week for each rounds nomination, the highest ranked qualified player who is not yet already nominated gets a nod. So they end up with no duplicates.

Then they vote again 5,4,3,2,1 after the last round to decide the winner from all the nominations.

Judd, Pendlebury, Beams... All Runners up.

Guys.  Ease up. It's no big deal.  

More of a popularity contest than anything. Both would have been worthy winners.

According to SEN the tops votes were given to Cripps by Kevin "Shifter" Sheehan.

I hope KB has publicly claimed he gave 5 to Cripps, because if Sheehan also gave Cripps 5? ??? :o

Judd was RUNNER UP?!?  :o

Pearce the only Rookie to win it, Byron Pickett the lowest draft pick at 67, 10 of 23 were top 10 picks but 6 were from outside the top 25.

Judd was RUNNER UP?!?  :o

Take some solace in the fact that the best judge of young talent gave Cripps 5 votes. Shifter Sheahan.

In order for Cripps to get 41 votes, he had to get 9 4s and 1 5. It's the only way its possible given that Hogan had 49, 9 5's and 1 5.

KB is full of crape

Two 5's, seven 4's and a 3? That's possible with that panel.

That works, but how did Hogan get 49 votes from 10 people if Cripps got 2 5's? He can't, so Cripps couldn't have gotten 2 5's.

It's a mathematical logic problem. ;)

Unless some wank only gave him 3 votes.

There are only 10 x 5 votes available, Hogan had to get 9 of them with a single 4 to make 49 points.

If KB gave Cripps 5 and Shifter Sheehan gave Cripps 5 that means Hogan can only have received 8 x 5 votes. Therefore Hogan could not score more than 48, 8 x 5 + 2 x 4 = 48 points.

Someone reporting the votes is lying if the reports are true, or the vote tally is bogus!

I heard Shifter's 5 vote reported on SEN directly after the 3pm shift change, I haven't heard Bartlett's claim.

There are only 10 x 5 votes available, Hogan had to get 9 of them with a single 4 to make 49 points.

If KB gave Cripps 5 and Shifter Sheehan gave Cripps 5 that means Hogan can only have received 8 x 5 votes. Therefore Hogan could not score more than 48, 8 x 5 + 2 x 4 = 48 points.

Someone reporting the votes is lying if the reports are true, or the vote tally is bogus!

I heard Shifter's 5 vote reported on SEN directly after the 3pm shift change, I haven't heard Bartlett's claim.

But the question is.....
Did Bartlett say he voted for Cripps or just said he thought he'd win.
He wouldn't have divulged his vote before the announcement.
I doubt Bartlett voted for Cripps.

Just on 'big blokes take longer' so Hogan wins.

Cripps has grown from 190cm we supposedly drafted him at to being 194cm now.
Hogan is supposedly only 195cm.

So Cripps mixing it with the games elite in the midfield standing 1cm shorter than Hogan who gets kudos for playing in a $hit side and can take a contested grab.

Everytime Cripps went forward he took a contested mark!

Hogan had 52 CM's and 47 marks inside 50.
Cripps had 15 CM's and 11 marks inside 50.

For a Gun forward, he was only getting around 4 times more marks.

I'm tipping Cripps was getting more than 4 times the amount of clearances. ;)

Just on 'big blokes take longer' so Hogan wins.

Cripps has grown from 190cm we supposedly drafted him at to being 194cm now.
Hogan is supposedly only 195cm.

So Cripps mixing it with the games elite in the midfield standing 1cm shorter than Hogan who gets kudos for playing in a $hit side and can take a contested grab.

Everytime Cripps went forward he took a contested mark!

Hogan had 52 CM's and 47 marks inside 50.
Cripps had 15 CM's and 11 marks inside 50.

For a Gun forward, he was only getting around 4 times more marks.

I'm tipping Cripps was getting more than 4 times the amount of clearances. ;)

From a personal point of view I thought Cripps more than overcome the disadvantage to win IMO. He'll poll very well in the Brownlow, not unlike Priddis.

Looking at the highlights package Murph is sure going to enjoy being first receiver for the rest of his career.

The thing with Cripps is that he's "grown" as a player during the season.
He's gone from being Judd's understudy to just about the lead role.
With his end of season fresh in our minds we're probably forgetting that at the start of the season he wasn't quite as dominant.

That may go part of the way to explaining his runner-up position in the rising star.
I suspect it will also show up in our B&F and the Brownlow where he will poll better in the back half of the season.

Will definitely get the 3 votes against the Saints in round 4 but his real outstanding run started the first week Barker took over the coaching reins. Just going though his weekly stats just then.

When was Cripps nominated for the rising star?

For his BOG performance agaisnt the saints in R4.

The Brownlow predictor gives him one vote for that game  :P

I reckon he was fairly consistent throughout the season but was perhaps more visible and/or influential after Judd was injured.

We gave him BOG.

The Votes: Round #4 Carlton vs. St. Kilda
Cripps, Patrick 370
Murphy, Marc 258
Henderson, Lachie 258
Bell, Tom 167
Everitt, Andrejs 64
Simpson, Kade 62
Tuohy, Zach 55
Armfield, Dennis 19
Walker, Andrew 19
Wood, Cameron 12
Carrazzo, Andrew 5

EDIT:
....and the coaches gave him =BOG.
St Kilda v Carlton

8 – Patrick Cripps (Carl)

8 – Marc Murphy (Carl)

5 – Tom Bell (Carl)

4 – Lachie Henderson (Carl)

2 – Ed Curnow (Carl)

2 – Zach Tuohy (Carl)

1 – David Armitage (St K)

Everyone knows the umpires don't pay attention until a second good year. It takes two seasons to win a brownlow, let alone win votes usually.   1 to get their attention and then another to win it.

Combine that with our poor win rate and I reckon he won't poll as well as people think.

We got smashed in most of our losses.  Hard to win votes in those scenarios.

@DJC

Told you so!!  :P

In all seriousness it doesnt matter.  It was always going to be a matter of him having to build a profile before getting too many votes, and IMHO, although he had a better impact than his votes reflected, I think he did well to poll as well as he did given simply how few games we won.

We gave him BOG.

The Votes: Round #4 Carlton vs. St. Kilda
Cripps, Patrick 370
Murphy, Marc 258
Henderson, Lachie 258
Bell, Tom 167
Everitt, Andrejs 64
Simpson, Kade 62
Tuohy, Zach 55
Armfield, Dennis 19
Walker, Andrew 19
Wood, Cameron 12
Carrazzo, Andrew 5

EDIT:
....and the coaches gave him =BOG.
St Kilda v Carlton

8 – Patrick Cripps (Carl)

8 – Marc Murphy (Carl)

5 – Tom Bell (Carl)

4 – Lachie Henderson (Carl)

2 – Ed Curnow (Carl)

2 – Zach Tuohy (Carl)

1 – David Armitage (St K)

Clearly the AFL coaches rate him pretty highly - not too far behind Bontempelli in the Young Players award (based on their performances in their first two years)

Best Young Player

1. Marcus Bontempelli - Western Bulldogs (557 votes)

2. Patrick Cripps – Carlton (527 votes)

3. Jeremy McGovern - West Coast (362 votes)

Jesse Hogan still only a first year player so I guess he'll win it next year.....

Zero Brownlow votes lol.

Which is why having the leagues most coveted 'best and fairest' award being voted on by umpires is a crock.

Which is why having the leagues most coveted 'best and fairest' award being voted on by umpires is a crock.

I hope everyone can temper their expectations of Cripps for next year. While I expect him to become a great 200+ game player for us, I also kind of expect him to have some 2nd year blues next year.

He hasn't really been tagged yet, next year clubs will put a lot more time into trying to stop him. Until he learns to play with high expectations and a lot closer attention from opposition teams his output may be lower than we are expecting of him.

Let him get to 50 games and then really watch him take off !!

Which is why having the leagues most coveted 'best and fairest' award being voted on by umpires is a crock.

You would have a point if it was the 'best and fairest' award.  However, it is the 'fairest and best ' award and I reckon umpires are best placed to determine who that is.

Where does it say that one has priority over the other though? Lewis gave a very dirty whack to a player, cited by the umps, and still got 2 votes.

In the past, a player who was reported could not be awarded votes in that game.  That was changed to cover the situation where a reported player is cleared by the tribunal.

The priority given to the 'fairest' element is demonstrated by the ineligibility rules and the fact that it is the umpires' award.

I don't mind the Brownlow going to the fairest and best player, particularly now that we have the coaches' award and the AFLPA award.  That should cover all angles.

Fairest should be replaced with 'not dirty'.

:D

It's just another quirky traditional aspect of our game.  Apart from Neil Roberts handing his Brownlow back if "fairest" is dropped, what would be the consequences of making the change?

I hope everyone can temper their expectations of Cripps for next year. While I expect him to become a great 200+ game player for us, I also kind of expect him to have some 2nd year blues next year.

He hasn't really been tagged yet, next year clubs will put a lot more time into trying to stop him. Until he learns to play with high expectations and a lot closer attention from opposition teams his output may be lower than we are expecting of him.

Let him get to 50 games and then really watch him take off !!

In the past, a player who was reported could not be awarded votes in that game.  That was changed to cover the situation where a reported player is cleared by the tribunal.

The priority given to the 'fairest' element is demonstrated by the ineligibility rules and the fact that it is the umpires' award.

I don't mind the Brownlow going to the fairest and best player, particularly now that we have the coaches' award and the AFLPA award.  That should cover all angles.

...

In any event, i put more stock in things like the AFLCA player of the year award. THEY are the ones that are best placed to decide the best player.

Take the Brownlow away from the Umpires
Give it to a three man panel who must attend the game and then watch a replay within  a day of the game.

Take the Brownlow away from the Umpires
Give it to a three man panel who must attend the game and then watch a replay within  a day of the game.

Imagine one three man panel consisted of Darcy, KB and Ling. ;D

Suffice to say I was thinking of a three man group of impartiality, honour and integrity. ::)  ;D

As a result I didn't even consider any media men.

But you and DJC are right.....
Where would we find such a group :(

Does anyone else notice the irony?

Cripps B&F, Hogan 4th in the B&F, yet Cripps gets voted out of the Rising Star 9:1.

The AFL industry is nepotism personified, the Rising Star vote I declare officially bogus!

Next thing someone will be telling me you can get 44 possessions, BOG, perfect scores from the coaches, all the media awards for the round and still fail to get a Brownlow vote! ::)

Kouta says hi