This is probably our best chance to win another game this year. Injuries have hot us badly. However, we have lost a couple of unlosable games against this mob in recent times. They also have injury problems and a young, developing list.
If we play like we did today against the Dogs we will not win it. However, if we play with the intensity we have done in recent weeks, we should win comfortably.
I wonder which Carlton will turn up? It probably won't be the one with Buckley, Alex Silvagni, Thomas or Ciaran Byrne in it.
Would you prefer your ugliness served with a Navy sauce, or the hometown chef's recommendation, yellow/blue/maroon pewk ?
Unless we try and play more attacking, we're just marking time this season.
The "park the bus" style gives the impression that "we're in the contest", and numerically that's probably fair enough. But in real footy terms, when we're down by three goals, the opposition knows that's almost a winnable lead, because scoring three goals for us (especially late in the game) is like 5 or 6 goals for other teams.
I'm hoping that the evolution in our game style happens sooner rather than later.
As to this game, Brisbane by 2 goals.
Would you prefer your ugliness served with a Navy sauce, or the hometown chef's recommendation, yellow/blue/maroon pewk ?
Unless we try and play more attacking, we're just marking time this season.
The "park the bus" style gives the impression that "we're in the contest", and numerically that's probably fair enough. But in real footy terms, when we're down by three goals, the opposition knows that's almost a winnable lead, because scoring three goals for us (especially late in the game) is like 5 or 6 goals for other teams.
I'm hoping that the evolution in our game style happens sooner rather than later.
As to this game, Brisbane by 2 goals.
...and i was criticised for my negativity?!
We can't kick a winning score.
so
We try and stop the opposition from kicking one.
Its not rocket science, we don't have the cattle to play all out attack.
...and i was criticised for my negativity?!
We can't kick a winning score.
so
We try and stop the opposition from kicking one.
Its not rocket science, we don't have the cattle to play all out attack.
I'm not asking for all out attack - an occasional change of gears might be nice. The 1st q of the Doggies game gave me hope :
- down the corridor - check
- move the ball quickly - check
- scoring a few goals early - check
How hard can it be ? Is Bolton assessing the list properly, or is he simply operating within his own comfort zone ?
Would you prefer your ugliness served with a Navy sauce, or the hometown chef's recommendation, yellow/blue/maroon pewk ?
Unless we try and play more attacking, we're just marking time this season.
The "park the bus" style gives the impression that "we're in the contest", and numerically that's probably fair enough. But in real footy terms, when we're down by three goals, the opposition knows that's almost a winnable lead, because scoring three goals for us (especially late in the game) is like 5 or 6 goals for other teams.
I'm hoping that the evolution in our game style happens sooner rather than later.
As to this game, Brisbane by 2 goals.
That won't start changing until next year. It's the way Clarko did it when he first started at Hawthorn and Roos at Melbourne. Eventually offence was blended in. Patience is a virtue.
We've been more than just in contests, we have been in front 5 times in the last qtr and lost. That's more than numerical. In the unlikely event we were theoretically able to win all 5 then we'd be equal 4th. Not as far off as we think but with our injuries, as well as the young bloke getting tired, we might struggle the rest of the year. Reckon we can have a second win in Qld this year though.
I'm not asking for all out attack - an occasional change of gears might be nice. The 1st q of the Doggies game gave me hope :
- down the corridor - check
- move the ball quickly - check
- scoring a few goals early - check
How hard can it be ? Is Bolton assessing the list properly, or is he simply operating within his own comfort zone ?
If the opposition is sitting in the corridor, it doesn't matter how quick you move it, it is not beneficial to go through it.
If you can catch a team unaware, then you can use the corridor.
Why do you think we couldn't use the corridor after the 1st quarter?
Did we change our game plan?
or
Did the doggies change theirs?
I'll think you'll find it was out of our control. ;)
If the opposition is sitting in the corridor, it doesn't matter how quick you move it, it is not beneficial to go through it.
If you can catch a team unaware, then you can use the corridor.
Why do you think we couldn't use the corridor after the 1st quarter?
Did we change our game plan?
or
Did the doggies change theirs?
I'll think you'll find it was out of our control. ;)
AFL footy, like most sports, is a territorial battle. The battle for territory isn't just up and down, it's lateral as well. The Doggies clogged up the corridor when we were in attack, yet paradoxically seemed to use the corridor when they were in attack.
SOS did an interview with Mike Sheahan a few years back. I don't like the interview - I thought SOS came across as cagey and evasive, but that's by the bye. One of the points he made is that as a defender, he was determined to stake out some territory on his opponent, and under no circumstances would he ever give up that territory, come hell or high water. I like this attitude very much.
The great Cats teams from a few seasons back all made a habit of owning the corridor.
I'm not suggesting we have the personnel to do it, but to at least make an effort to not surrender valuable territory so meekly might be nice.
Selection hypothetical: You have the choice between a 'seasoned' player who gives 110%, follows team rules and structures but can lack in the ability stakes at times or a young colt with noted potential but hasn't totally come to terms with team rules, game plans and structures. Who do you select?
Any kid who has been drafted has been elite in their local competition and exceptional at state level....and probably not used to being given a specific (sometimes minor) role to fulfill. It's a bit like the GWS situation, everyone wants to be a star and few want to be the blue collar workers.
What is the most important thing we want our kids to achieve prior to being elevated?
Selection hypothetical: You have the choice between a 'seasoned' player who gives 110%, follows team rules and structures but can lack in the ability stakes at times or a young colt with noted potential but hasn't totally come to terms with team rules, game plans and structures. Who do you select?
...................................
Pick whichever one helps you to win the game on any given day, taking into consideration team balance and the other 21 selections.
Selection hypothetical: You have the choice between a 'seasoned' player who gives 110%, follows team rules and structures but can lack in the ability stakes at times or a young colt with noted potential but hasn't totally come to terms with team rules, game plans and structures. Who do you select?
Any kid who has been drafted has been elite in their local competition and exceptional at state level....and probably not used to being given a specific (sometimes minor) role to fulfill. It's a bit like the GWS situation, everyone wants to be a star and few want to be the blue collar workers.
What is the most important thing we want our kids to achieve prior to being elevated?
I think you pick the player that plays to team instructions, if they both do you pick the one that has more potential.
But no player should get a game if they are not playing to team instructions, that should not be negotiable.
That won't start changing until next year. It's the way Clarko did it when he first started at Hawthorn and Roos at Melbourne. Eventually offence was blended in. Patience is a virtue.
We've been more than just in contests, we have been in front 5 times in the last qtr and lost. That's more than numerical. In the unlikely event we were theoretically able to win all 5 then we'd be equal 4th. Not as far off as we think but with our injuries, as well as the young bloke getting tired, we might struggle the rest of the year. Reckon we can have a second win in Qld this year though.
A voice of reason? Surely not!
AFL footy, like most sports, is a territorial battle. The battle for territory isn't just up and down, it's lateral as well. The Doggies clogged up the corridor when we were in attack, yet paradoxically seemed to use the corridor when they were in attack.
SOS did an interview with Mike Sheahan a few years back. I don't like the interview - I thought SOS came across as cagey and evasive, but that's by the bye. One of the points he made is that as a defender, he was determined to stake out some territory on his opponent, and under no circumstances would he ever give up that territory, come hell or high water. I like this attitude very much.
The great Cats teams from a few seasons back all made a habit of owning the corridor.
I'm not suggesting we have the personnel to do it, but to at least make an effort to not surrender valuable territory so meekly might be nice.
You have 2 options as an afl club.
1. As you suggest, play the territorial game: They can't score if they can't get into their forwardline.
or
2. Play the keepings off game: They can't score if they don't have the ball.
End game is to play the keepings off game in your forwardline until you can kick a goal.
How quickly it gets there and what direction it takes to get there is an ever-changing landscape based on trends of the day. Most opinions on which is best is usually a personal preference, based on what makes the better spectacle for them.
The keepings off game is doomed to failure - we aren't skillful or strong enough to hold possession for long periods, and not skillful or strong enough to win it back repeatedly after we cough it up. If we can only hold onto the ball for 1 minute before we lose it, why not move the ball quickly forward and at least put ourselves in better field position, both to kick a goal, and also to make it harder for the opposition, because they are further from goal ?
I would argue moving the ball forward quickly works better with a limited skill set, because playing keepings off in our back half requires understanding and skills that I don't think we have, and also allows the opposition to set up far too easily.
You have 2 options as an afl club.
1. As you suggest, play the territorial game: They can't score if they can't get into their forwardline.
or
2. Play the keepings off game: They can't score if they don't have the ball.
End game is to play the keepings off game in your forwardline until you can kick a goal.
How quickly it gets there and what direction it takes to get there is an ever-changing landscape based on trends of the day. Most opinions on which is best is usually a personal preference, based on what makes the better spectacle for them.
Keepings off at either end requires a level of skill, we have too many poor decision makers/kickers to get cute with the ball....Weitering kicking short across goal being an example.
The keepings off game is doomed to failure - we aren't skillful or strong enough to hold possession for long periods, and not skillful or strong enough to win it back repeatedly after we cough it up. If we can only hold onto the ball for 1 minute before we lose it, why not move the ball quickly forward and at least put ourselves in better field position, both to kick a goal, and also to make it harder for the opposition, because they are further from goal ?
I would argue moving the ball forward quickly works better with a limited skill set, because playing keepings off in our back half requires understanding and skills that I don't think we have, and also allows the opposition to set up far too easily.
I agree... but Bolton would argue he is teaching defensive basics and that he wants his defense to operate as a team and his midfielders also to get back, occupy space and complete the zone.
When he is satisfied that the playing group have mastered the basics I would expect him to go to a more hybrid model and then when he has the list he wants he would adopt a more attacking philosophy.
Dont think we will ever get to the GWS full on running attack down the corridor model as Bolton strikes me as a more conservative old school coach who values a disciplined defensive unit as his best weapon..
WE WILL WIN !!!! WE HAVE TO!!!!!! I am spending a bit of coin to fly up with the missus, see the game and stay a week. I will be REALLY PI55ED OFF if we lose. >:D >:D >:D
I agree... but Bolton would argue he is teaching defensive basics and that he wants his defense to operate as a team and his midfielders also to get back, occupy space and complete the zone.
When he is satisfied that the playing group have mastered the basics I would expect him to go to a more hybrid model and then when he has the list he wants he would adopt a more attacking philosophy.
Dont think we will ever get to the GWS full on running attack down the corridor model as Bolton strikes me as a more conservative old school coach who values a disciplined defensive unit as his best weapon..
I like those points. It is IMO, an interesting discussion. DJC reckons that the Box Hill Hawks under Bolton were a high scoring team, so it seems as though he's capable. But yes, he does seem a little old school. If he can get us playing and scoring like the Pies circa 2010-2011 (as an example of another old school coach), I for one will be very happy.
Keepings off at either end requires a level of skill, we have too many poor decision makers/kickers to get cute with the ball....Weitering kicking short across goal being an example.
Get 'cute' ?
We are taking the higher % options. That is the opposite of getting cute.
We don't have the skill to get cute.
Weiterings kick was terrible, but the exception not the rule. Every team has 1 of them a week, perhaps not as bad as that, but same end result at least.
We are focussing on defense so it becomes second nature.
It takes a team to defend but an individual can kick a goal.
Get the structures, culture and habits correct to build a solid team defence, and then sprinkle in a few x-factors down the track to assist in the attacking side of things.
Someone like Pickett for example could be that x-factor. Even Boeky could come into his own with a better team. Allow him to be the outside run, carry and create player.
We could always re-draft Yarran. ;)
Of course, we still need a target or 3 to kick too, but i've done that to death.
Keepings off at either end requires a level of skill, we have too many poor decision makers/kickers to get cute with the ball....Weitering kicking short across goal being an example.
He is the best kick in the team.
Why does he take that option?
Why was it not 50
I like those points. It is IMO, an interesting discussion. DJC reckons that the Box Hill Hawks under Bolton were a high scoring team, so it seems as though he's capable. But yes, he does seem a little old school. If he can get us playing and scoring like the Pies circa 2010-2011 (as an example of another old school coach), I for one will be very happy.
In 2009 Bolton coached the Box Hill Hawks to a semi-final loss against Port Melbourne 19.10.124 to 19.14.128. Perhaps losing a shoot-out final has made him a little gun-shy :-\
No, I'm convinced that our defensive style is simply part of the work in progress.
Get 'cute' ?
We are taking the higher % options. That is the opposite of getting cute.
We don't have the skill to get cute.
Weiterings kick was terrible, but the exception not the rule. Every team has 1 of them a week, perhaps not as bad as that, but same end result at least.
We are focussing on defense so it becomes second nature.
It takes a team to defend but an individual can kick a goal.
Get the structures, culture and habits correct to build a solid team defence, and then sprinkle in a few x-factors down the track to assist in the attacking side of things.
Someone like Pickett for example could be that x-factor. Even Boeky could come into his own with a better team. Allow him to be the outside run, carry and create player.
We could always re-draft Yarran. ;)
Of course, we still need a target or 3 to kick too, but i've done that to death.
Getting cute is a dinky 15m kick across goal instead of playing it safe...you miss with the kick and its a goal....the higher percentage safe option is the long kick along the boundary...defense 101.
In one match recently we had the nice option of Charlie Curnow pushing up on one back flank and Weitering on the other back flank to kick to and it worked really well....they took several marks and we got the ball out of the danger zone easily.
We kick short way too often and like all poor teams we execute poorly more often and get the ball picked off, gifting goals is one of our problems...
We need decent good kicking mids to hit up those 3 targets of yours....
I like the possession game but sling shot when required . We just dont have the cattle to play the Brett Ratten run and gun football. Which made us flag favourites early 2012 before injuries destroyed our season. We had Eddie Betts and Garlett kicking 80 goals between them and Waite kicking another 40. need to get depth in this midfield this off season and hopefully this will be our third and final time going to the draft as of next year I am hoping we go for A graders to plug gaps be it Key forward, Inside Mid, Small Forward whatever we need.
Flag favourites after round 3 and playing no one. All the good sides beat us that year. We haven't been a contender since the year 2000.
Flag favourites after round 3 and playing no one. All the good sides beat us that year. We haven't been a contender since the year 2000.
It was a patchy season - we beat the side that finished 4th, and were capable of pumping sides by 10+ goals. Then there's the other side of the coin.
It's not contenders or bust. That era is yet to be bettered, not by the triple premiership coach with 30 years in the game, and not, to date, by the new age wunderkind.
Wrong year oops
I think that sustained success, especially when basically starting from scratch, comes by getting your defence right, and then once it is solid, you can work on offence.
The teams that stay at the top have done it this way. The teams that have a good year and fade away are the ones who don't.
I like it. I think it shows we aren't taking short cuts this time.
Getting cute is a dinky 15m kick across goal instead of playing it safe...you miss with the kick and its a goal....the higher percentage safe option is the long kick along the boundary...defense 101.
In one match recently we had the nice option of Charlie Curnow pushing up on one back flank and Weitering on the other back flank to kick to and it worked really well....they took several marks and we got the ball out of the danger zone easily.
We kick short way too often and like all poor teams we execute poorly more often and get the ball picked off, gifting goals is one of our problems...
We need decent good kicking mids to hit up those 3 targets of yours....
Higher % safe option.
If you break it down, you are more likely to have a goal kicked against you by going long down the line than sideways across goal. Not immediately, but overall.
How many kicks across goal occur before 1 misses like Wieterings? That might occur once out of 100 kicks. There is always a free man running sideways to kick to. It is a high % option that comes off more than any other kick.
Now the alternative, long down the boundary.
50-50 option at best.
What happens to the 50% chance that doesn't go our way, a lot of that comes back at us. If only 5% results in a shot on goal, it is still 5 times more likely to get a shot on goal than the across goal kick.
The higher % option is to maintain possession.
Maintaining possession for more than 2 minutes is pretty much impossible. I know you've watched many games of footy - how many modern day teams can hold continuous possession for more than 2 minutes ? The ball gets to an "in dispute" situation fairly quickly. A tackle, mis kick, out of bounds, goal, behind etc. are all times when you must fight for the ball and regain possession somehow. We don't have the luxury of dicking around with the ball playing keepings off for 1 minute in our back half, because when the inevitable turnover occurs, it's in a bad field position for us, and gives the opposition too much advantage. We also don't have many good tacklers or many strong mids who can get the ball back quickly.
Teams like the Swans have no fear of contested ball, because their terrific midfield will win more in dispute situations than they lose. We don't have that luxury, which is why i advocate faster ball movement towards goal. At least when the turnover occurs, it gives the opposition some work to do get it further up the ground.
I am actually surprised by some of these comments.
For most of the year we've been good, and praised by commentators for our ability yo remain calm, patient, and move the ball out of our backline. Our ability to switch play from one side of the ground to the other has been a standout for me this year.
Higher % safe option.
If you break it down, you are more likely to have a goal kicked against you by going long down the line than sideways across goal. Not immediately, but overall.
How many kicks across goal occur before 1 misses like Wieterings? That might occur once out of 100 kicks. There is always a free man running sideways to kick to. It is a high % option that comes off more than any other kick.
Now the alternative, long down the boundary.
50-50 option at best.
What happens to the 50% chance that doesn't go our way, a lot of that comes back at us. If only 5% results in a shot on goal, it is still 5 times more likely to get a shot on goal than the across goal kick.
The higher % option is to maintain possession.
I'll agree to disagree...the more times you over possess the ball in the backline the more chance you have of turning it over IMO....
don't sweat it deags. Just a bunch of sad lonely old men with their own opinions and perspectives.
I wont, Im just as sad and lonely.
I'll agree to disagree...the more times you over possess the ball in the backline the more chance you have of turning it over IMO....
Realistically everyone is right and everyone's wrong too.
There is no safe option, but the one that is highest percentage of working in your favour.
That's why you play the percentages.
Sometimes the percentage play is maintaining possession and most sides will actually let you, because they're concerned with keeping you out of their defence. The Bulldogs switched to a full court press against us, which made possession in defence dangerous.
Our boys will watch the tape and have to figure out a strategy to counter this next time. Malthouses boundary plan is probably the option in this circumstance because the dogs set-up to press forward and own the corridor.
This is why people who blanket game plans as being out dated should be ignored.
Good post Thry.
At the end of the day , the game plan will change as level of experience and skill set changes , with the wholesale changes possible still to have happen again this year, this will take time for players to settle into position & work together as cohesive unit
[move][/move]
I think next year will be important year for Bolts and his team. If we start using the corridor more and score, then all good. That will mean that he was indeed developing the defensive aspect first. Without Casbolt, we actually might be better up forward as we can develop some players with better leading pattern talent. Our delivery into the forward line is awful at the moment though. Culprits like Graham, Kerridge and co. don't help this. If we continue into 2019 averaging such a low goal ratio, then I believe he will fax the axe like his predecessors. This is not good for our club as we seem to continue to turn over coaches.
Good post Thry.
No worries. Im a firm believer that a game plan should be fluid enough to be horses for courses.
When people say that the game plan is fine but the execution of it was lacking, they misunderstand that the problem isn't the game plan, its the game plan at that point in time.
When players are only taught to play "one way" they cannot adapt to changing situations, i.e. opponents nullifying a game plan.
When People say the coach should be able to counter this on game day, realistically the coach can only tell players to do what he has PREPARED them to do.
On game day, the players ability to feel their way through a match is going to dictate what happens more than any coach. He can watch it, and tell someone about something thats happening, but all the good sides are very good at sensing the momentum, and what is working and what isnt.
CARLTON'S EXTENDED SQUAD:
Backs 20. Lachie Plowman 14. Liam Jones 15. Sam Docherty
Half-backs 26. Harrison Macreadie 23. Jacob Weitering 6. Kade Simpson
Centreline 46. Matthew Wright 4. Bryce Gibbs 39. Dale Thomas
Half-forwards 1. Jack Silvagni 41. Levi Casboult 13. Jed Lamb
Forwards 11. Sam Kerridge 30. Charlie Curnow 25. Zac Fisher
Followers 8. Matthew Kreuzer 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton 3. Marc Murphy (C)
Interchange from: 27. Dennis Armfield 12. Blaine Boekhorst 28. David Cuningham
32. Nick Graham 10. Harry McKay 16. Billie Smedts
31. Tom Williamson
In: Thomas, Armfield, Smedts, Cuningham, Williamson, Macreadie, McKay
Out: A.Silvagni (knee), Buckley (hamstring), Sumner (omitted), Byrne (groin)
Fingers crossed that H finally gets a gig.
You'd think that the I/C would be Cuningham, Williamson, McKay and Graham (Emerg: Armfield, Boekhorst & Smedts?).
Fingers crossed that H finally gets a gig.
You'd think that the I/C would be Cuningham, Williamson, McKay and Graham (Emerg: Armfield, Boekhorst & Smedts?).
My thoughts too.
Fingers crossed that H finally gets a gig.
You'd think that the I/C would be Cuningham, Williamson, McKay and Graham (Emerg: Armfield, Boekhorst & Smedts?).
I hope so!
Fingers crossed that H finally gets a gig.
You'd think that the I/C would be Cuningham, Williamson, McKay and Graham (Emerg: Armfield, Boekhorst & Smedts?).
Brisbane might be an easier gig for HMc with no real standout star defenders....I want to see him play...
Fingers crossed that H finally gets a gig.
3rd time lucky ? they couldn't do it again surely...
even if his form doesn't warrant it they've got to throw him and see how he goes. Road Trip with the boys will be a great experience for him.
Sumner has had more than enough chances.
Sumner has had more than enough chances.
Last week may have been the straw that breaks Sumner's back. We needed a big effort and he delivered nothing. Not surprised at all to see him dropped. I can't see him getting a game again.
Then again, funnier things have happened, but I wouldn't be playing him until he got 20+ possessions in the VFL. I don't know that he has ever done that.
With only a few rounds to go, the probability of the MC selecting a few speculative selections is on the cards, especially with the injury problems we have. Dennis will have at least 1 farewell game, depending on how he plays. Jaksch might get a game to see if we can interest some team in him at trade time.
he simply doesn't appear fit enough....surprised he was picked...
he simply doesn't appear fit enough....surprised he was picked...
I don't think fitness has much to do with it. To quote Captain Blood, "He keeps getting where the ball ain't!"
I don't think fitness has much to do with it. To quote Captain Blood, "He keeps getting where the ball ain't!"
Play him as a defender in the twos for a few weeks, that'll fix him.
Fingers crossed that H finally gets a gig.
You'd think that the I/C would be Cuningham, Williamson, McKay and Graham (Emerg: Armfield, Boekhorst & Smedts?).
Agree 100%. May as well let him play out the year now. I may yet be proven wrong but guys like Graham, Smedts, Boekhorst, Sumner etc don't seem like they will be part of the future. Harry, Willo, Cunners and Macreadie are most certainly apart of bigger and better things.
I hope Smedts gets another crack. Reckon this guy can really play....
Has all the attributes, seems to be a mental thing. Wells wouldn't have selected him with a first rounder otherwise. Hopefully some continuity without injury will hold him in good stead moving forward.
"Hearing @CarltonFC's Harry McKay will debut on Sunday v Brisbane! Long wait for Blues fans but he's finally in".....Mitch Cleary
https://twitter.com/cleary_mitch?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/late-mail-round-18-harry-mckay-set-for-carlton-debut-rory-sloane-patrick-dangerfield-still-in-doubt/news-story/a85ae30bba8ea07cf3371a078d792dce
I hope Smedts gets another crack. Reckon this guy can really play....
I agree with you. I think he should just be given some continuity in the team - perhaps play him more as a forward [where he started]. I think he's got talent, he just seems to be a guy who doesn't seem to know where he fits or what his role in the team actually is. Tell him he is in for 4 weeks and just back himself to play well.
Aside from his numerous injuries this was the problem with him at Geelong - he just couldn't find a position and settle.
Play him forward and hope he kicks a few goals and gets his confidence back up. It's not like we have a stack of goal kickers who are shooting the lights out!! He's a better bet that Sumner and much fitter and versatile than Pickett. Fisher has been going ok, but he needs plenty of time to develop physically and learn how to hit the scoreboard.
So the trend of playing blokes off the back of crap VFL games continues! :o
So the trend of playing blokes off the back of crap VFL games continues! :o
No choice.
Injuries hit, players need to get a game. If everyone is playing crap, a crap player will get a game.
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane 8s8 seconds ago
Carlton Rd18 changes v Brisbane Lions
Thomas, Cuningham, Williamson, Macreadie, McKay in for Silvagni, Buckley, Sumner, Boekhorst, Byrne.
Carlton
B Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Sam Docherty
HB Harrison Macreadie, Jacob Weitering, Kade Simpson
C Matthew Wright, Bryce Gibbs, Dale Thomas
HF Jack Silvagni, Levi Casboult, Jed Lamb
F Sam Kerridge, Charlie Curnow, Zac Fisher
Fol Matthew Kreuzer, Sam Petrevski-Seton, Marc Murphy
I/C David Cuningham, Nick Graham, Harry McKay, Tom Williamson
Emg Blaine Boekhorst, Billie Smedts, Dennis Armfield
In Harrison Macreadie, Dale Thomas, David Cuningham, Harry McKay, Tom Williamson
Out Dylan Buckley (Hamstring), Blaine Boekhorst (Omitted), Ciaran Byrne (Groin), Liam Sumner (Omitted), Alex Silvagni (Knee)
New Harry McKay
Not sure Boekhurst and Sumner would be sleeping well tonight.
At first glance, that is a very, very young team!
Not sure Boekhurst and Sumner would be sleeping well tonight.
They look gonski. I rate Sumner, he has some tricks but he hasnt stepped up.
At first glance, that is a very, very young team!
At second glance, that is an incredibly inexperienced team! Eight players have a grand total of 95 games between them, another three are yet to reach 50 games and only six have played more than 100 games.
A lot better side (on paper) than last week... Better ball users and faster across the ground. If we come to play we'll beat Brisbane.
We can safely say that Jaksch is finished now that McKay has been picked ahead of him, the only player over 6 feet who hasn't is Kerr and he's out for the rest of the season.
What a stellar trade that was eh?
Anyhoo, the Bears will need to be pretty hopeless but they are so we might have a win, either that or a 57 to 54 point loss.
We need the draft picks anyway.
We can safely say that Jaksch is finished now that McKay has been picked ahead of him, the only player over 6 feet who hasn't is Kerr and he's out for the rest of the season.
What a stellar trade that was eh?
Anyhoo, the Bears will need to be pretty hopeless but they are so we might have a win, either that or a 57 to 54 point loss.
We need the draft picks anyway.
Jaksch was a highly rated kid. Much higher rated than Jones was.
You win some. You lose some.
Jaksch was a highly rated kid. Much higher rated than Jones was.
You win some. You lose some.
I'm not sure what Jones has to do with the apparent demise of Jaksch ???
The problem is that until the last two draft/trade periods, we lost a hell of a lot more than we won :(
At second glance, that is an incredibly inexperienced team! Eight players have a grand total of 95 games between them, another three are yet to reach 50 games and only six have played more than 100 games.
That certainly tips the scales Brisbanes way.
A bit like the side we played PA with. Hope it doesn't blow out like that one did.
At second glance, that is an incredibly inexperienced team! Eight players have a grand total of 95 games between them, another three are yet to reach 50 games and only six have played more than 100 games.
The guys getting replaced are not all that more experienced and this group is certainly better although Williamson may not come up.
Shame, I think we've missed him
Not sure Boekhurst and Sumner would be sleeping well tonight.
Boekhorst can consider himself a bit stiff. He hasn't been that bad. Sumner, on the other hand, probably realizes his time is up. Last week killed his career as a senior player with us.
Harry McKay is probably a bit lucky. He has been down in recent weeks. But he does now get an opportunity where at least some of the guys can kick it in his general direction. It may also be in his half more often, no matter how poor our forward football can be. That will help him. Last week he got seriously cold.
Jaksch was a highly rated kid. Much higher rated than Jones was.
You win some. You lose some.
The Jaksch trade effectively cost us pick 7 as Whiley is gone and Boekhorst is soon to be gone, Jones cost us pick 46.
Whether he was highly rated as a kid means nothing as we recruited him when he'd been on a senior list for two years and played 7 games for a very modest return.
It was a woeful trade which was symptomatic of our recruiting and drafting over a decade or more, which is why we now find ourselves bereft of talent in the mid age demographic.
Premiership teams need 10 or 12 players aged between 25 and 30 if history is any guide and it will be another 4 years minimum before we reach that point.
That certainly tips the scales Brisbanes way.
A bit like the side we played PA with. Hope it doesn't blow out like that one did.
Our kids are more at home than they were when we played PA, particularly the likes of Curnow, although we lack Cripps.
A win would surprise me but I doubt that it will be a heavy loss.
Boekhorst can consider himself a bit stiff. He hasn't been that bad. Sumner, on the other hand, probably realizes his time is up. Last week killed his career as a senior player with us.
Harry McKay is probably a bit lucky. He has been down in recent weeks. But he does now get an opportunity where at least some of the guys can kick it in his general direction. It may also be in his half more often, no matter how poor our forward football can be. That will help him. Last week he got seriously cold.
Not about luck thuogh, the kid needs to be exposed to the higher level.
Some blokes just perform better at the higher level (and there's no point me reiterating the lack of leather poisoning given the NB's recent patch of form). Cuners a prime example.... like the way he appears to be advancing.
The press talk of Harry at 200cm, when he's likely 204cm+ now (based on his own words ...).
That extra height and wingspan makes a big difference in the 4th quarter when tiredness sets in.
Having a second tall target has been a big hole for us for too long.
Crows have Tex - 195cm. Lynch - 191cm (Jac's height?), Jenkins - 200cm, McGovern - 191cm and Otten - 194cm.
Interesting that Cripps and Charlie are as tall as Tex?
Anyway, with Levi and Harry both 200cm and more - and the former an elite 1 on 1 or larger contested mark - and with both liking to crash packs etc. it's a hard match up to counter.....
With Charlie, Levi and Harry all as legitimate tall targets in the forward line that has to stretch opposition defences? Again if we get some quick ball movement in there....
Worth playing SPS as the crumbing small forward for a few weeks?
Hoping Pickett steps up next year - an elite talent but maybe not that hungry?
Boekhorst can consider himself a bit stiff. He hasn't been that bad. Sumner, on the other hand, probably realizes his time is up. Last week killed his career as a senior player with us.
Harry McKay is probably a bit lucky. He has been down in recent weeks. But he does now get an opportunity where at least some of the guys can kick it in his general direction. It may also be in his half more often, no matter how poor our forward football can be. That will help him. Last week he got seriously cold.
My concern is delivery into the fwd line. Sticking a two meter kid there and bombing it in like they have been doing to Casboult will ruin him IMO. Cas can look after himself because of his bulk and his elite marking skills. Harry has neither of these attributes yet so he needs to find space and run onto the footy. I hope they ease him in and constantly talk to him and instruct him (players and coaches). He has shown zero to me in the 2s to suggest he is ready to play AFL, I assume they have a plan to gently expose him to the elite level.
Depending on the match ups, a 2 pronged tall forward target might just work. Yes this also depends on the quality of entries. But we've not had this option for, well I'm not sure how long. Here's hoping we catch the Lion's out adjusting to our structure, and kick off to an early lead.
Good luck to H. I hope he manages a couple of special moments. Moments where the defense is focused on big Levi and H puts it through the big sticks... OK, so that's debut dreaming.
This game, later in the season, has been problematic the last couple of years. No doubt hampered by our injury list and the travel. Oh and the home ground advantage. At least Robbo's not playing this time. He's pulled one out of his hat during the last two meetings.
Go Blues.
Don't have an easier game in our run home. Have a better team in this week and if we play close to our best should be good enough to get the points today.
Even though I'm very happy with the years development I think its important we get more reward for effort and not a better chance then today.
Play Cats, Cheats and Hawks in Melb and Sydney and WC away. Will be rack outsiders in all other games.
A loss will mean we are back in the running for the spoon - not the place I want to be in a second year of a rebuild.
The Jaksch trade effectively cost us pick 7 as Whiley is gone and Boekhorst is soon to be gone, Jones cost us pick 46.
Whether he was highly rated as a kid means nothing as we recruited him when he'd been on a senior list for two years and played 7 games for a very modest return.
It was a woeful trade which was symptomatic of our recruiting and drafting over a decade or more, which is why we now find ourselves bereft of talent in the mid age demographic.
Premiership teams need 10 or 12 players aged between 25 and 30 if history is any guide and it will be another 4 years minimum before we reach that point.
I know what the trade cost us.
My point is that Jones was a speculative nothing pick that nobody was overly pleased with, but it is paying off.
People lament the Jaksch trade, but based on %'s that was by far the better trade.
As i said, you win some, you lose some.
We got lucky with Jones. We were unlucky with Jaksch. In reality, the 2 'performances' should've been the other way around.
My concern is delivery into the fwd line. Sticking a two meter kid there and bombing it in like they have been doing to Casboult will ruin him IMO. Cas can look after himself because of his bulk and his elite marking skills. Harry has neither of these attributes yet so he needs to find space and run onto the footy. I hope they ease him in and constantly talk to him and instruct him (players and coaches). He has shown zero to me in the 2s to suggest he is ready to play AFL, I assume they have a plan to gently expose him to the elite level.
As long as McKay and Casboult spread out then that at least spreads the defence.
Harry McKay showed plenty earlier to suggest he should've been selected.
For what it's worth we're favourite with the bookies. :P
For what it's worth we're favourite with the bookies. :P
Guaranteed loss.
As long as McKay and Casboult spread out then that at least spreads the defence.
Harry McKay showed plenty earlier to suggest he should've been selected.
I trust your judgement as you have probably watched him live more than me. I am only going by the couple of games I have seen on TV plus whats written on here in VFL threads. That hasn't enthused me that much (ie warranting selection), I just see a young, gangly colt with heaps of potential that needs to learn the craft.
I trust your judgement as you have probably watched him live more than me. I am only going by the couple of games I have seen on TV plus whats written on here in VFL threads. That hasn't enthused me that much (ie warranting selection), I just see a young, gangly colt with heaps of potential that needs to learn the craft.
I think he needs a few games so he can go away over pre season and work hard where he needs to improve. This is just going to be an education but if he makes an impact all the better.
Hope it turns out like this today. Doubt the scores will be as high..lol
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-07-21/classic-matches-brisbane-lions