Win, lose or draw, this is our finale for 2017. How we go into the break will be much better if we win.
Liam has his summer homework assignment
Unfortunately some of the class won't be going up a grade next year
I'll start.
:-[ :'(
Usual round 23 cue in the rack stuff unfortunately. Thought the 2nd qtr was going to be something different by the last half was pretty soft.
Anyway, the season showed we are starting to take some steps.
Usual round 23 cue in the rack stuff unfortunately. Thought the 2nd qtr was going to be something different by the last half was pretty soft.
Anyway, the season showed we are starting to take some steps.
Yes, like a novel that has a few decent chapters here and there, and then the final chapter is a massive stinker, and you just wish the author had left it out.
Very disappointing. Went out with a whimper.
Trade and drafts beckon.
Yes, like a novel that has a few decent chapters here and there, and then the final chapter is a massive stinker, and you just wish the author had left it out.
Just had the feeling we played our Grand Final last week. That's what we have to take into next year.
From the in-game thread...
No, Docherty wasn't rolled. Rohan rode Docherty's back into the ground.
There's no difference between the tackles. If Rohan's tackle is a free kick, Casboult's should be too.
If I was umpiring, both tackles would result in a free for in the back.
From the first angle. Yes, agree.
From the second angle, doc was rolled (slightly) and Kennedy landed off to the side on his shoulder.
Casboult was 100% flat on his back.
I wouldn't be upset if the Doc one was paid, but if the roles were reversed, i'd be more unhappy if the tackle wasn't rewarded.
2nd last , what a disgrace.
Also from in-game...
That may be so, but if he was assessed on what he does with the ball he wouldn't be getting another contract.
Thankfully, its not just about what you do when you have the ball.
People are bashing Boeky because of what he does NOT do when he doesn't have the ball.
It works both ways.
2nd last , what a disgrace.
Hate to say i told you's so. :-[
Just had the feeling we played our Grand Final last week. That's what we have to take into next year.
I guess so, but it's a shame we saved our worst performance for last.
People are bashing Boeky because of what he does NOT do when he doesn't have the ball.
It works both ways.
True they are, and no it doesn't.
Boekhorst kicking goals is not the counter balance to his direct opponent being a free running extra number. Someone like Buckley or Sumner, even Lamb, get pummelled on here for much the same reason, why does Boekhorst get a leave pass? Would he get the pass if his name was Lucas?
It's much the same as Casboult clunking marks, but costing us games.
One side of the ledger does not balance the other.
2nd last , what a disgrace.
We could rocket up to 3rd last if the suns lose by 65pts or more...lol.
Gibbs actually ran AWAY from a lose ball that was clear in the last 10 minutes!
Hopefully the Kruezer contract is done and dusted - the guy is the guts of our team and does not stop even when everyone else does
Hopefully the Kruezer contract is done and dusted - the guy is the guts of our team and does not stop even when everyone else does
Tru Dat!
Quite a few in today's side who simply simply aren't good enough, and the youngsters failed to flatter today although I liked Williamson's game.
We had four or five first choice players missing and it showed, apart from Kreuzer and Murphy who both plugged away it wasn't easy to find good players.
It was worth watching just to see Franklin, one of the best I've ever seen.
Anyway, onwards and upwards, we'll be a better team next year.
God I hope Ciaran Byrne is OK.
Just had the feeling we played our Grand Final last week. That's what we have to take into next year.
Yes. Let's hope bolts has the v gws and v Hawks games on repeat in the inner sanctum.
It would have been ideal for us to have had a 22round season.
Shame in the end because the boys showed some great progress. Somehow that last game has extra sting.
Quite a few in today's side who simply simply aren't good enough, and the youngsters failed to flatter today although I liked Williamson's game.
We had four or five first choice players missing and it showed, apart from Kreuzer and Murphy who both plugged away it wasn't easy to find good players.
It was worth watching just to see Franklin, one of the best I've ever seen.
Anyway, onwards and upwards, we'll be a better team next year.
God I hope Ciaran Byrne is OK.
Murphy?
Come on he was average and so was his effort
Murphy?
Come on he was average and so was his effort
All I said was that he plugged away, it wasn't one of his best games but he sure wasn't Robinson Crusoe.
All I said was that he plugged away, it wasn't one of his best games.
He didn't plug away on the wing when he had his pants pulled down by a kid.
It was pathetic at best from an average player but our captain???
Hopefully the Kruezer contract is done and dusted - the guy is the guts of our team and does not stop even when everyone else does
Kruez was our best ruckman and our best midfielder today. By a country mile.
I know it's unlikely, but it would be fantastic little reward if he got AA. Certainly deserves it in my Navy book.
I think he'll be right up there in our B & F. Good onya Kruez. The youngsters won't want for a positive role model while you're around. Tremendous season.
He didn't plug away on the wing when he had his pants pulled down by a kid.
It was pathetic at best from an average player but our captain???
If Murphy is an average player we are in deep trouble.
We've played them twice for a win and a loss, that makes us even afaIc. Looking forward to next time now.
I'll focus on the season as a whole more so than today. It's been encouraging. The only game that really annoyed me alot was the Brisbane game. Today, while not that happy, I half expected and it's not going to affect much anyway.
I'll focus on the season as a whole more so than today. It's been encouraging. The only game that really annoyed me alot was the Brisbane game. Today, while not that happy, I half expected and it's not going to affect much anyway.
That's a fair post Jim. I never expected us to win, as the Swans are superior to us in every way. But I just wish it was an honorable, hard fought loss, and not a capitulation / humiliation. The Brisbane game was not great by any means, but today we just rolled over, very meekly. I was hoping this was a thing of the past.
I'll focus on the season as a whole more so than today. It's been encouraging. The only game that really annoyed me alot was the Brisbane game. Today, while not that happy, I half expected and it's not going to affect much anyway.
Yep it's hard to positive about anything but Kruezer effort today.
I don't think too many would be looking him in the eye tonight.
He should be
Made skipper for a year or two
That's a fair post Jim. I never expected us to win, as the Swans are superior to us in every way. But I just wish it was an honorable, hard fought loss, and not a capitulation / humiliation. The Brisbane game was not great by any means, but today we just rolled over, very meekly. I was hoping this was a thing of the past.
Most things are a thing of the past, just not round 23s.
I'd like to wish Dennis all the best for the future.
Thanks for the effort, heart, positivity and highlights.
Most things are a thing of the past, just not round 23s.
maybe we can sort that one out next year.
I'd like to wish Dennis all the best for the future.
Thanks for the effort, heart, positivity and highlights.
Yes agree. Shame about today though.
Our bad day is not even going to get us pick 2.
You think we were bad, GC haven't scored since the 1st qtr.
Thank you Dennis. Carlton clearly holds a special part in your heart. The feeling is mutual. You've given your all and set high standards for those who follow.
All the best for continued happiness and success in life Dennis.
I'd like to wish Dennis all the best for the future.
Thanks for the effort, heart, positivity and highlights.
Yes, the perfect role model for any budding footballer.
He come with the Judd trade as steak knives and played exactly the same amount of games as Juddy for Carlton.
I'll focus on the season as a whole more so than today. It's been encouraging. The only game that really annoyed me alot was the Brisbane game. Today, while not that happy, I half expected and it's not going to affect much anyway.
Yes, I had hopes for a better result today but, as hard as Kreuzer and Murphy worked, we were never really in the contest.
Hopefully Liam Jones will take away what is required to play on the best key forward in the business and our young blokes will have learnt a bit more about developing their craft to the level required of elite players.
We lost.
Cue the petty attacks on Murph and Gibbs who had great seasons. Seems to annoy some supporters. Go figure.
Yes, I had hopes for a better result today but, as hard as Kreuzer and Murphy worked, we were never really in the contest.
Hopefully Liam Jones will take away what is required to play on the best key forward in the business and our young blokes will have learnt a bit more about developing their craft to the level required of elite players.
Kruezer was great and should be AA, Murphy I was less enthused about, worked hard enough but some of his defensive work was poor and he continues to kick short and be indirect.
Didnt blame Jones today, we were a 3rd tall defender short IMO and missed Marchbank, Rowe, ACOS and Plowman...Jones needed help vs Buddy but we didnt have the equipment to help him as
we were undersized. The Swans got the ball down down inside 50 too much and too quickly and we just fell apart under the weight of entries...
Bolton doesnt have a plan B after his 7 men back in defense plan and we need to work on that for next season as well as turn over the list with about 10-12 players cut IMO...
Bolton doesnt have a plan B after his 7 men back in defense plan and we need to work on that for next season as well as turn over the list with about 10-12 players cut IMO...
I'm hoping our current plan this year becomes our plan B from here on. Bolton spoke about being more attacking next year. We have been very good this year at stopping the opposition momentum when they look like getting on top and getting back into games.
We lost.
Cue the petty attacks on Murph and Gibbs who had great seasons. Seems to annoy some supporters. Go figure.
Yes, a loss seems to energise those folk who can't appreciate the effort of Murphy and Gibbs.
Kruezer was great and should be AA, Murphy I was less enthused about, worked hard enough but some of his defensive work was poor and he continues to kick short and be indirect.
Didnt blame Jones today, we were a 3rd tall defender short IMO and missed Marchbank, Rowe, ACOS and Plowman...Jones needed help vs Buddy but we didnt have the equipment to help him as
we were undersized. The Swans got the ball down down inside 50 too much and too quickly and we just fell apart under the weight of entries...
Bolton doesnt have a plan B after his 7 men back in defense plan and we need to work on that for next season as well as turn over the list with about 10-12 players cut IMO...
Jones was caught out by his lack of experience as a key defender. Yes, he was lacking support but his poor positioning and body work against an elite forward showed just how much work he needs to do to become a genuine key defender. Docherty had a shocker tonight, which put more pressure on the defence, but Jones has to learn how to neutralise the ball if he is unable to win it.
It's hard to have a Plan B if half of the squad aren't capable of executing Plan A. Hopefully the young blokes will continue to develop and we won't have to rely on Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer to the same extent next season.
Aside from Dennis, I wonder who else we saw the last of today (or beforehand, as with those on the injury list)??
We lost.
Cue the petty attacks on Murph and Gibbs who had great seasons. Seems to annoy some supporters. Go figure.
Jesus, these Murphy and Gibbs apologists have no shame. Their effort today reflected their careers at Carlton. Soft. That effort of Murphy's on the wing was pathetic. Has he ever made a tackle during his career?
I swear you must watch a different game to me every week. The amount of turnovers, fumbles, juggling and sh#tting themselves both do weekly basis is sickening. I now call Gibbs "The Juggler" because he fumbles it nearly every time he receives the ball and most times is because he's expecting contact. It's never clean. Swatch him in traffic and you'll see what I mean. F#ckin' hopeless.
I hope one or both of these pussies can be managed out of the club during the off season. Please SOS make it happen. I'm sick of watching the two softest c#cks ever to play the game, play for my club. Make end, please make it end!
I'm looking forward to the "rebuild" continuing with our midfield for 2018. As oft posted on here there are glaring deficiencies and plenty of theories and ideas as to how to fix it. I'm wondering how SoS and BB see it and will be fascinated to see how they go about it.
Last nights game shows how far we drop when we lose more then 2-3 from our starting 18. We have 'just' been competitive without cripps and curnow but once you take out a few more we drop very quickly.
Our list has an early tipping point due to lack of decent depth players and I really hope sos does a better job then he did last year in this regard.
Players like smedts and Palmer are wasted picks IMO we need decent consistent back ups not high risk perspective picks for these positions.
We can't be uncompetitive next season when we are down a few soldiers which will occur in a long season.
With a healthy list we could win 8-10 games next year. But lose more then 2-3 of starting 18 and we quickly drop off to close to the worst team in the comp.
Kelly hooper and co would be nice additions if SOS can make it happen but the need of real depth players can't be underestimated.
Last nights game shows how far we drop when we lose more then 2-3 from our starting 18. We have 'just' been competitive without cripps and curnow but once you take out a few more we drop very quickly.
Our list has an early tipping point due to lack of decent depth players and I really hope sos does a better job then he did last year in this regard.
Players like smedts and Palmer are wasted picks IMO we need decent consistent back ups not high risk perspective picks for these positions.
We can't be uncompetitive next season when we are down a few soldiers which will occur in a long season.
With a healthy list we could win 8-10 games next year. But lose more then 2-3 of starting 18 and we quickly drop off to close to the worst team in the comp.
Kelly hooper and co would be nice additions if SOS can make it happen but the need of real depth players can't be underestimated.
Can we achieve that and at the same time be trading out too many key members of our current best 22? This will be the challenge for next year and mistakes could be costly. I think SoS is well across things and I'm pretty confident ways will be found. A fascinating time to be a CFC supporter for sure.
2 points to start off with.
Does any team lose it's feet more, or fall/slip over more than Carlton? Is it just me or do our blokes seem to slip and slide all over the place. It's been noticeable for a couple of seasons and I'm sure I've heard it commented on before. Needs sorting out whether it's a boots thing or a lack of Pilates.
Does any team get a better run from the umpires than Sydney? It's disgraceful. Sure it's not why we lost but feck me, it just irks me sooo much.
2 points to start off with.
Does any team lose it's feet more, or fall/slip over more than Carlton? Is it just me or do our blokes seem to slip and slide all over the place. It's been noticeable for a couple of seasons and I'm sure I've heard it commented on before. Needs sorting out whether it's a boots thing or a lack of Pilates.
Does any team get a better run from the umpires than Sydney? It's disgraceful. Sure it's not why we lost but feck me, it just irks me sooo much.
1. Yes we slip over alot
2. Yes there is a team that gets a better leg up from the maggots, Geel at SS. Unwatchable.
Last nights game shows how far we drop when we lose more then 2-3 from our starting 18. We have 'just' been competitive without cripps and curnow but once you take out a few more we drop very quickly.
Our list has an early tipping point due to lack of decent depth players and I really hope sos does a better job then he did last year in this regard.
Players like smedts and Palmer are wasted picks IMO we need decent consistent back ups not high risk perspective picks for these positions.
We can't be uncompetitive next season when we are down a few soldiers which will occur in a long season.
With a healthy list we could win 8-10 games next year. But lose more then 2-3 of starting 18 and we quickly drop off to close to the worst team in the comp.
Kelly hooper and co would be nice additions if SOS can make it happen but the need of real depth players can't be underestimated.
Generally agree Shawny, except on Palmer : the only reason he's not getting games is because of our youth policy. He is exactly what a depth player should be - inexpensive, experienced, and can play a role decently without starring. Bolton's statement about picking players on form is nonsense. If it were true, Palmer would be a regular fixture in the 1sts.
Bit of a grim night. Made the trip up as well, but some warmer weather offset the second half belting. As a footy fan one doesn't see 10 goals kicked by a forward often either.
The midfield shallowness as others have said is the off season priority. Players with possessions in single figures mean huge pressure on a few. A couple of big bodies to line up with Cripps is urgent.
On the positive side we had a few passages of classy ball movement in the second quarter with centering kicks. Showed some promise and some confidence
As for players departing, well done Dennis for a good career. Others that may have played their last game are graham and casboult. I can't see why we would offer him anything more than a year or two so he will likely leave. Richmond have missed a ty Vickery style disappointment so may be a suitor.
Overall a poor season but getting games into players has been the success. The 2015 and 2016 draft cohort have all played some good chunks of league footy. Whereas the players from 2011-2014 are thin on the ground.
Another disappointing night for us poor Sydney based supporters - I think that's 10 losses in a row in Sydney now.
We were belted in the 1st quarter, but when we took the game on in the second quarter with run and handball we started to ask questions of the Swans. We were very unlucky not to be ahead at half time.
In the 3rd we went back into our shells as the swans mids started to assert themselves. When we move the ball slowly across half back on a small ground we are very easy to defend against. We played the spare man [Simmo] in the backline which left the Swans with a +1 [it was often Lloyd] at the stoppages. Giving the strongest midfield in the comp an extra player on a small ground didn't really work out all the well for us!!
Murph tried hard and does a power of running, but he doesn't hurt teams with his possessions. I just think he is more of support act rather than the main man - I wouldn't be against him passing the mantle onto Cripps or Doc next year.
Kruz was immense and was probably the only clear winner we had on the day. All of our mid tier players really struggled to have any influence when compared to their opponents.
Went into the rooms after the game. The talk was Bryne had done an ankle, and he was in a moon boot on crutches. The mood was very somber - like a morgue really. Trigg spoke to the group and did some thank yous etc to support staff and they made a presentation to Neil Craig. They were in a rush to get to the airport to fly home, and were ushered off into another room for a meeting. It was as flat as a pancake. Spoke to the President for a few minutes - he was the only one in a positive mood.
Overall a disappointing end to another year bouncing along the bottom of the ladder. Let's not forget we have won 24 games in the last 4 years [88 games], and all the raw stats tell you we haven't improved a lot compared to last year, but I'm sure there will be another thread on that topic. We are only ahead of Brisbane [19] and slightly behind GC [26] for wins over the last 4 years, and you could probably mount an argument that all those 3 teams need a priority pick to be any chance to break out of the bottom 4 next year.
sbf, given your issues with our scoring impotence (which I completely agree with btw), you should have crash tackled Bolts in the rooms and demanded to know what he intends to do next season to get us closer to regularly scoring about 100 points. A guaranteed mood lifter if ever there was one.
And dopey jokes aside, I don't think any of the teams you mention deserve a priority pick.
An interesting draft and trade period coming up, we definitely have a more promising list but consistent results will take some time.
Sydney simply outclassed us and some of our second tier players couldn't cope with the pressure they applied.
We were a couple short in the back half and they were able to isolate Franklin and Jones to a large degree, and Buddy beats anyone one on one given enough opportunity.
In contrast they were able to exploit Casboult's lack of mobility and block him so that there were a large number of contests he didn't reach, it's a major flaw in his game which any solid defence can take advantage of.
It was around the stoppages that we were most badly beaten though which highlights how important Cripps is to to our fortunes, Graham just isn't good enough and Kerridge was ineffective after a couple of pretty good games. When it's only Murphy and Gibbs versus a hard and disciplined midfield we'll struggle badly, if not for the tireless and very talented Matty Kreuzer it would have been even worse.
We have to cop this sort of loss for a little while yet, hard as they are to accept.
And dopey jokes aside, I don't think any of the teams you mention deserve a priority pick.
It's an interesting argument and depends on your definition of 'deserve' - I think it's more a question of need.
We all know that the playing field is not even, and the idea that priority picks 'reward mediocrity' is furpphy to me. We have been consistently ordinary for 4 years straight, and at a minimum we are 2-3 years away from having a consistently competitive side assuming the majority of our draftees develop into good players, and we find a way to kick 3-5 more goals per week. An extra pick would provide a small benefit to help close the gap for those 3 teams who have consistently under performed.
The issue with our scoring has been something I have banged on about 2 years, and the simple fact is we haven't really improved. Our conversion improved slightly [so we scored slightly more] but our scoring shots went down. I predicted at the start of the year we would finish bottom 4 because I couldn't see how we would score enough to win more than 25% of our games. It is statistically shown that you will win about 1 in 4 games if you only have 20 scoring shots - and this is exactly what happened this year for us.
Have a look at the Bombers rise this year - there defence is marginally better than ours but they will end up scoring 600 points more than last year through the development of their drafted forwards and recruiting [Greene and Stewart] to spread the load. I will confidently predict again that we will not move up the ladder in 2018 until we find a way to have 5-6 more scoring shots each week and convert those into 3-4 more goals.
I would have loved to have button holed Bolton but the whole coaching group didn't look like they were keen to engage with anybody - especially an opinionated punter like me!! I've actually never seen a more depressing footy dressing room in my life!
It's an interesting argument and depends on your definition of 'deserve' - I think it's more a question of need.
We all know that the playing field is not even, and the idea that priority picks 'reward mediocrity' is furpphy to me. We have been consistently ordinary for 4 years straight, and at a minimum we are 2-3 years away from having a consistently competitive side assuming the majority of our draftees develop into good players, and we find a way to kick 3-5 more goals per week. An extra pick would provide a small benefit to help close the gap for those 3 teams who have consistently under performed.
The issue with our scoring has been something I have banged on about 2 years, and the simple fact is we haven't really improved. Our conversion improved slightly [so we scored slightly more] but our scoring shots went down. I predicted at the start of the year we would finish bottom 4 because I couldn't see how we would score enough to win more than 25% of our games. It is statistically shown that you will win about 1 in 4 games if you only have 20 scoring shots - and this is exactly what happened this year for us.
Have a look at the Bombers rise this year - there defence is marginally better than ours but they will end up scoring 600 points more than last year through the development of their drafted forwards and recruiting [Greene and Stewart] to spread the load. I will confidently predict again that we will not move up the ladder in 2018 until we find a way to have 5-6 more scoring shots each week and convert those into 3-4 more goals.
I would have loved to have button holed Bolton but the whole coaching group didn't look like they were keen to engage with anybody - especially an opinionated punter like me!! I've actually never seen a more depressing footy dressing room in my life!
2nd last for Inside 50's...cant kick goals from the half backline.....and when it does get down there we only have 5 forwards usually due to the defensive game plan.
Thats not a recipe for goalscoring.....
Like I said earlier in the season if we lose Cripps we are stuffed and wont win many games...we have to fix that pronto...Casboult looked intimidated by Grundy and outbodied.....
Graham...goodbye...Kerridge has been reasonable but is a stop gap until we get better replacements...
Defenders don't need to outbody Levi, they only need to be able to position themselves properly because he can't change direction.
With a clear run at it he'll mark it more often than not, but take that out of his game and there's not much left.
Graham should be delisted, along with Jaksch, Buckley and Sumner, not sure about the status of Gorringe but hell never make the cut IMO.
If Casboult isn't traded I'd delist him as well, and if McKay doesn't measure up have a rethink then but persevering with Levi will take us nowhere.
It's an interesting argument and depends on your definition of 'deserve' - I think it's more a question of need.
We all know that the playing field is not even, and the idea that priority picks 'reward mediocrity' is furpphy to me. We have been consistently ordinary for 4 years straight, and at a minimum we are 2-3 years away from having a consistently competitive side assuming the majority of our draftees develop into good players, and we find a way to kick 3-5 more goals per week. An extra pick would provide a small benefit to help close the gap for those 3 teams who have consistently under performed.
The issue with our scoring has been something I have banged on about 2 years, and the simple fact is we haven't really improved. Our conversion improved slightly [so we scored slightly more] but our scoring shots went down. I predicted at the start of the year we would finish bottom 4 because I couldn't see how we would score enough to win more than 25% of our games. It is statistically shown that you will win about 1 in 4 games if you only have 20 scoring shots - and this is exactly what happened this year for us.
Have a look at the Bombers rise this year - there defence is marginally better than ours but they will end up scoring 600 points more than last year through the development of their drafted forwards and recruiting [Greene and Stewart] to spread the load. I will confidently predict again that we will not move up the ladder in 2018 until we find a way to have 5-6 more scoring shots each week and convert those into 3-4 more goals.
I would have loved to have button holed Bolton but the whole coaching group didn't look like they were keen to engage with anybody - especially an opinionated punter like me!! I've actually never seen a more depressing footy dressing room in my life!
Bombers have Joe Daniher who has gone from being a bit of a joke to a quality player...not many blokes his size have his leap and pace....watched him take several bounces from the middle and kick 60 m goals on the run and he couldnt be run down.....
Harry Mckay has to be our Daniher or Ben Brown or we will go nowhere ...you need that reliable 50 goal plus forward who the opposition have to plan for every week...
It's an interesting argument and depends on your definition of 'deserve' - I think it's more a question of need.
We all know that the playing field is not even, and the idea that priority picks 'reward mediocrity' is furpphy to me. We have been consistently ordinary for 4 years straight, and at a minimum we are 2-3 years away from having a consistently competitive side assuming the majority of our draftees develop into good players, and we find a way to kick 3-5 more goals per week. An extra pick would provide a small benefit to help close the gap for those 3 teams who have consistently under performed.
The issue with our scoring has been something I have banged on about 2 years, and the simple fact is we haven't really improved. Our conversion improved slightly [so we scored slightly more] but our scoring shots went down. I predicted at the start of the year we would finish bottom 4 because I couldn't see how we would score enough to win more than 25% of our games. It is statistically shown that you will win about 1 in 4 games if you only have 20 scoring shots - and this is exactly what happened this year for us.
Have a look at the Bombers rise this year - there defence is marginally better than ours but they will end up scoring 600 points more than last year through the development of their drafted forwards and recruiting [Greene and Stewart] to spread the load. I will confidently predict again that we will not move up the ladder in 2018 until we find a way to have 5-6 more scoring shots each week and convert those into 3-4 more goals.
I would have loved to have button holed Bolton but the whole coaching group didn't look like they were keen to engage with anybody - especially an opinionated punter like me!! I've actually never seen a more depressing footy dressing room in my life!
Thank you for your insights SBF, getting your comments re mood in the rooms, on the spot witnessing of our capitulation... much appreciated. Much can be read when you're right there. Hope your little one wasn't too disheartened by what he/she witnessed. My kids grew up on games at PP, MCG and Waverley in the 80s... yep, spoilt!
Concerns me that the mood was depressed... should have been anger.
Perhaps it will ultimately be a good thing that our weak underbelly was exposed for all to see. Yes, we were missing 7 or 8 first picked blokes... but it was much the same last week and the week before. So that aint an excuse/reason. This was about mental toughness. You only need one bloke to be soft and it can and does undermine spirit... take a bow, Meat.
The CFC supporters have shown herculean tolerance and patience over a long period and particularly the last two years. If we turn at 3 and 8 (or thereabouts) midway through next year then I suspect membership will fall and patience will have run out and a steely gaze will be upon the place from CEO down.
I believe we need to be more aggressive than ever at this year's draft and bring known midfield talent / depth into the place, and get rid of the last of the non hackers (Meat included). We need more mentally strong blokes in the place.
It's an interesting argument and depends on your definition of 'deserve' - I think it's more a question of need.
We all know that the playing field is not even, and the idea that priority picks 'reward mediocrity' is furpphy to me. We have been consistently ordinary for 4 years straight, and at a minimum we are 2-3 years away from having a consistently competitive side assuming the majority of our draftees develop into good players, and we find a way to kick 3-5 more goals per week. An extra pick would provide a small benefit to help close the gap for those 3 teams who have consistently under performed.
The issue with our scoring has been something I have banged on about 2 years, and the simple fact is we haven't really improved. Our conversion improved slightly [so we scored slightly more] but our scoring shots went down. I predicted at the start of the year we would finish bottom 4 because I couldn't see how we would score enough to win more than 25% of our games. It is statistically shown that you will win about 1 in 4 games if you only have 20 scoring shots - and this is exactly what happened this year for us.
Have a look at the Bombers rise this year - there defence is marginally better than ours but they will end up scoring 600 points more than last year through the development of their drafted forwards and recruiting [Greene and Stewart] to spread the load. I will confidently predict again that we will not move up the ladder in 2018 until we find a way to have 5-6 more scoring shots each week and convert those into 3-4 more goals.
I would have loved to have button holed Bolton but the whole coaching group didn't look like they were keen to engage with anybody - especially an opinionated punter like me!! I've actually never seen a more depressing footy dressing room in my life!
sbf, as always, you make some fair points. I reckon one possible reason for the coaching group looking miserable is that they got a reality check for how much work still needs to be done to be a genuine challenger, which then means more green shoot propaganda, more of a hard sell to fans etc., not to mention the actual real work of drafting, trading developing etc., and making sure it's all done right.
wrt to a PP, if I was the AFL, I would not be looking at the MM years at all. That IMO is in the past. I would tell the club :
- you have 5 RS nominations this year, one last year, one of whom is playing CHF and looks a chance to be the best player in the comp
- you have plenty of high draft picks, through draft and trades.
- you have a stated policy of playing youth, which makes it harder to win games
- you have been competitive most of the season, including being ahead in the 4th in 7 games, and including knocking over GWS and the Swans, and if you want to gild the lily, the Hawks as well.
In conclusion :
NO PP FOR YOU !!
sbf, as always, you make some fair points. I reckon one possible reason for the coaching group looking miserable is that they got a reality check for how much work still needs to be done to be a genuine challenger, which then means more green shoot propaganda, more of a hard sell to fans etc., not to mention the actual real work of drafting, trading developing etc., and making sure it's all done right.
wrt to a PP, if I was the AFL, I would not be looking at the MM years at all. That IMO is in the past. I would tell the club :
- you have 5 RS nominations this year, one last year, one of whom is playing CHF and looks a chance to be the best player in the comp
- you have plenty of high draft picks, through draft and trades.
- you have a stated policy of playing youth, which makes it harder to win games
- you have been competitive most of the season, including being ahead in the 4th in 7 games, and including knocking over GWS and the Swans, and if you want to gild the lily, the Hawks as well.
In conclusion :
NO PP FOR YOU !!
Impossible to argue with any of that.
Daniher and Brown both took until their 3rd year before they became strong consistent performers, and have really started to excel in their 4th years.
So assuming McKay can become as good as them, it won't be until 2020 season that he will be a force - that's still a long wait given the last 4 years of mediocrity.
The reasons why we [or Bris / GC] are where we are pretty is much irrelevant in regards to a PP for mine - it's simply that the draft should be used to help the comp equalise. It is also far from a panacea - 1 extra pick isn't really going to do much and is no guarantee that we will use it well anyway!!
Daniher and Brown both took until their 3rd year before they became strong consistent performers, and have really started to excel in their 4th years.
So assuming McKay can become as good as them, it won't be until 2020 season that he will be a force - that's still a long wait given the last 4 years of mediocrity.
The reasons why we [or Bris / GC] are where we are pretty is much irrelevant in regards to a PP for mine - it's simply that the draft should be used to help the comp equalise. It is also far from a panacea - 1 extra pick isn't really going to do much and is no guarantee that we will use it well anyway!!
Perhaps, but i was role playing. I very much doubt the AFL will see it that way.
Alot of crap and dribble being spoken here. Only the basis of our second half too many dills think the world has caved in. The fact is the season has been good, we haven't been bad the last few weeks given we have been down on personal, we made life horribly tough for good sides, led 7 times in last qtrs and lost, had a great win last week. For a side of kids we have done a good job.
Alot of crap and dribble being spoken here. Only the basis of our second half too many dills think the world has caved in. The fact is the season has been good, we haven't been bad the last few weeks given we have been down on personal, we made life horribly tough for good sides, led 7 times in last qtrs and lost, had a great win last week. For a side of kids we have done a good job.
Still in rebuild mode....plenty of renovating work to be done yet, have a better idea at the end of 2018 where we are going....your kids need to get to 50 games before you can really assess any value or lack of....
Curnow and Silvagni will be third year next year so we'd hardly be throwing kids to the wolves, McKay will be third year as well and even though he's only played a couple of games he won't have a kid's body in 2018.
Charlie Curnow is almost too good to be stuck in the F50 jumping at the ball, he could become the next Franklin. I'd like to see him is a Fraser Gehrig style role on the wing.
Nobody is going to want to run with Curnow then be forced to compete one on one when he floats forward within goal range. Then when he hits his prime, he'll be freaking impossible to match up on.
We agree again, what the feck is going on! :o
Levi could have stayed in Melb and helped the NBs smash Box Hill!
Hahaha, yes!
Good point actually, never though of that. Collingwood lost yesterday so we only need to win to play finals. Not as if yesterday in Sydney meant too much.
Let's jump back a year ago:
30% of the current team had played just half a dozen games
30% of the current team were under 21 - basically teenagers
30% of the current team had never met or played with each other
30% of the current team had never played against fully grown men with 10 years elite AFL experience
30% of the current team had never actually played against teams like Hawthorn
Last night they played against an experienced elite team playing for a top 4 spot, a percentage gain, with the best midfield and Buddy Franklin in full flight.
We might have finished 2nd last on the ladder - but we are not the 2nd worst team in the league.
We don't have the 2nd worst future compared to other playing lists...
Liam Jones 1% watch :(
Liam had a tough night at the office. He received a bit of a football lesson from one of the great forwards. Unfortunately with Plowman, Marchbank, Silvagni and Rowe all unavailable it was a job he had to do with little assistance and little option for a switch. At the best he'll have learned a few things to work on and be ready for the next contest.
Given he was a bit preoccupied with his opponent he would probably be a bit down in his 1%'s this week
But No! ;) :D
15 for the game...the next best was Melican from the Swans with 8...the next best Carlton player was Williamson with 4
At the end of the regular season Jones leads AFL for 1%'s per game with an average of 11.
1 Liam Jones CARL 11
2 Alex Rance RICH 9.5
3 Michael Hartley ESS 9.4
4 Daniel Talia ADEL 9.3
A minor stat no doubt....but we won something
We also won this :D
Kicks
1 Sam Docherty 460
2 Dustin Martin 434
3 Dylan Roberton 385
4 Kade Simpson 377
5 Andrew Gaff 371
6 Zach Merrett 370
7 Bryce Gibbs 362
7 Bradley Hill 362
9 Marc Murphy 360
10 Heath Shaw 345
..and this ???
Kicks
Carlton 4965
Collingwood 4898
Essendon 4854
Do we kick too much :-\
Ha good to get some positivity from anywhere possible!
I don't think one can blame Jones for Buddy's 10 goals.
He had no support defensively from the midfield - as per usual when our mids go missing they go TOTALLY missing and he had no help down back either.....
Buddy would have kicked 10 on anyone with such little support.
The second half belting was almost inevitable - the end of a long year for the kids and Sydney had a lot to play for....
Mention should be made that we had a lot of regular 22 guys out too - ACoS/Rowe, Marchbank, Plowman, Cripps and Curnow.
Take Kennedy and Hannebury out of their 22 and let's see how they go?
I don't think one can blame Jones for Buddy's 10 goals.
He had no support defensively from the midfield - as per usual when our mids go missing they go TOTALLY missing and he had no help down back either.....
Buddy would have kicked 10 on anyone with such little support.
The second half belting was almost inevitable - the end of a long year for the kids and Sydney had a lot to play for....
Mention should be made that we had a lot of regular 22 guys out too - ACoS/Rowe, Marchbank, Plowman, Cripps and Curnow.
Take Kennedy and Hannebury out of their 22 and let's see how they go?
Hannebery didn't play, and neither did Papley.
i would like to ask our coaching panel is HOW do the opposition always seem seem to have an open forward line with space to lead and ours is ALWAYS crowded it not only the swans games it is been happening all year ? I think we have to look at our forward coach and defensive game plan.
i would like to ask our coaching panel is HOW do the opposition always seem seem to have an open forward line with space to lead and ours is ALWAYS crowded it not only the swans games it is been happening all year ? I think we have to look at our forward coach and defensive game plan.
Plenty on here agree, although apparently there is method to the madness. The shackles are supposedly going to be released, or at least loosened, next season.
Liam Jones 1% watch
:(
Liam had a tough night at the office. He received a bit of a football lesson from one of the great forwards. Unfortunately with Plowman, Marchbank, Silvagni and Rowe all unavailable it was a job he had to do with little assistance and little option for a switch. At the best he'll have learned a few things to work on and be ready for the next contest.
Given he was a bit preoccupied with his opponent he would probably be a bit down in his 1%'s this week
But No! ;) :D
15 for the game...the next best was Melican from the Swans with 8...the next best Carlton player was Williamson with 4
At the end of the regular season Jones leads AFL for 1%'s per game with an average of 11.
A minor stat no doubt....but we won something.
Also won most
marks stat. Docherty with 199, Howe second with 181.
i would like to ask our coaching panel is HOW do the opposition always seem seem to have an open forward line with space to lead and ours is ALWAYS crowded it not only the swans games it is been happening all year ? I think we have to look at our forward coach and defensive game plan.
they piss fart around with the ball for 10 minutes chipping sideways and backwards from half back line then eventually get it to about 80 meters out then bang it in hoping for the best......
Levi Casboult finished 2nd in the league for contested marks - 4 behind dixon from Port, and equal with McGovern from west coast.
Docherty was also 2nd in rebound 50's - 15 behind Hurley.
Liam Jones was also 3rd in TOG% with 96.3% of gametime played. (1st - 97.9 Lynch (GC), 2nd - 97.2 Rance)
Levi Casboult finished 2nd in the league for contested marks - 4 behind dixon from Port, and equal with McGovern from west coast.
Docherty was also 2nd in rebound 50's - 15 behind Hurley.
Liam Jones was also 3rd in TOG% with 96.3% of gametime played. (1st - 97.9 Lynch (GC), 2nd - 97.2 Rance)
Have we had "metres gained"?
1-Docherty Carlton-11321metres
2-Brodie Smith Adelaide -11300
3-Dustin Martin Richmond -11039
Liam Jones 1% watch
:(
Liam had a tough night at the office. He received a bit of a football lesson from one of the great forwards. Unfortunately with Plowman, Marchbank, Silvagni and Rowe all unavailable it was a job he had to do with little assistance and little option for a switch. At the best he'll have learned a few things to work on and be ready for the next contest.
Given he was a bit preoccupied with his opponent he would probably be a bit down in his 1%'s this week
But No! ;) :D
15 for the game...the next best was Melican from the Swans with 8...the next best Carlton player was Williamson with 4
At the end of the regular season Jones leads AFL for 1%'s per game with an average of 11.
A minor stat no doubt....but we won something
We also won this :D
Kicks
1 Sam Docherty 460
2 Dustin Martin 434
3 Dylan Roberton 385
4 Kade Simpson 377
5 Andrew Gaff 371
6 Zach Merrett 370
7 Bryce Gibbs 362
7 Bradley Hill 362
9 Marc Murphy 360
10 Heath Shaw 345
..and this ???
Kicks
Carlton 4965
Collingwood 4898
Essendon 4854
Do we kick too much :-\
Thanks for that lods. Those 1% show that he pays attention to the small things that make a difference, and that he's unselfish. A team first, athletic, reborn AFL player who has a completely legitimate claim to some very decent scalps this season. I'm happy for him. Well done, Giant Slayer Jones.
And those kicking stats - well, I've touched on that elsewhere. I'd be very curious to know what % of those kicks went backwards or sideways.
I don't think one can blame Jones for Buddy's 10 goals.
He had no support defensively from the midfield - as per usual when our mids go missing they go TOTALLY missing and he had no help down back either.....
Buddy would have kicked 10 on anyone with such little support.
The second half belting was almost inevitable - the end of a long year for the kids and Sydney had a lot to play for....
Mention should be made that we had a lot of regular 22 guys out too - ACoS/Rowe, Marchbank, Plowman, Cripps and Curnow.
Take Kennedy and Hannebury out of their 22 and let's see how they go?
I'm not going to blame him because it takes a team to defend and sheer weight of numbers would have made it extremely tough, but for a bloke minding buddy he spent a lot of time nowhere near him.
That being said he joins a long list of defenders that buddy has pulled the pants down of.
I'm not going to blame him because it takes a team to defend and sheer weight of numbers would have made it extremely tough, but for a bloke minding buddy he spent a lot of time nowhere near him.
That being said he joins a long list of defenders that buddy has pulled the pants down of.
Jones played a few meters in front of Buddy firstly to give himself first chance to mark the ball, and secondly to block Buddy's run, and thirdly to minimize the chance of giving away a free by attempting to spoil over the shoulder, push in the back etc. One problem that emerges from this is that Jones was constantly looking around to see where Buddy was. Between ball watching, Buddy watching etc., in combination with glut of supply that Buddy received, he was on a hiding to nothing. I doubt Rance would've done better under the circumstances.
I think the strategy was sound enough. If I were a defender, I would much prefer playing in front of Buddy.
There's in front and thirty metres away.
He did the latter far too often to really be minding him properly.
Still it's a learning curve.
The thing that has me wondering is what were the coaching group telling Jones, and others, as the night progressed...and was he/they following their advice/ instructions.
The thing that has me wondering is what were the coaching group telling Jones, and others, as the night progressed...and was he/they following their advice/ instructions.
Jones strikes me as someone who is very coachable - he seems like the type to follow orders and instructions.
At any rate, I'd like to see some footage of Franklin's 10 goals - my memory of watching the game is that Jones was close to him for most of them, but I could be wrong.
Jones strikes me as someone who is very coachable - he seems like the type to follow orders and instructions.
At any rate, I'd like to see some footage of Franklin's 10 goals - my memory of watching the game is that Jones was close to him for most of them, but I could be wrong.
Buddy was quicker and stronger....Jones is a big unit but Buddy is a beast and while not strong in the air he always seemed to have the drop on Jones who played from the front too often....
Jones needed help and another big player to help block Buddy....Plugger kicked ten on SOS...so to me its all part of Jones learning experience and a champ like Buddy is going to have those days and Jones did his best...Buddy would have kicked 15 on anyone else...
Buddy was quicker and stronger....Jones is a big unit but Buddy is a beast and while not strong in the air he always seemed to have the drop on Jones who played from the front too often....
Jones needed help and another big player to help block Buddy....Plugger kicked ten on SOS...so to me its all part of Jones learning experience and a champ like Buddy is going to have those days and Jones did his best...Buddy would have kicked 15 on anyone else...
Jones is effectively a first year player as a defender and it's no surprise that Buddy was able to work him over. It would have been a different story if Rowe and/or ACOS was with Jones in the back six.
As you say EB, it's part of his learning experience and I doubt whether Buddy will kick ten next time they meet.
We were missing some regulars in Marchbank and Plowman (Rowe/Silvagni) so some of the established structures were not there.
The fact that we were struggling further up the ground meant that there was always going to be plenty of opportunities for Franklin.
I'm just wondering how things were being dealt with in the box rather than being critical of Jones's efforts....but I guess that's something we'll never know.
We were missing some regulars in Marchbank and Plowman (Rowe/Silvagni) so some of the established structures were not there.
The fact that we were struggling further up the ground meant that there was always going to be plenty of opportunities for Franklin.
I'm just wondering how things were being dealt with in the box rather than being critical of Jones's efforts....but I guess that's something we'll never know.
I think the Box realised it wasnt going to be our day and Buddy was on fire...Bolton would know him well and just figured Jones would learn more by suffering a bit of pain and it
was always about learning once the Swans had the game on their terms..
Buddy was quicker and stronger....Jones is a big unit but Buddy is a beast and while not strong in the air he always seemed to have the drop on Jones who played from the front too often....
Jones needed help and another big player to help block Buddy....Plugger kicked ten on SOS...so to me its all part of Jones learning experience and a champ like Buddy is going to have those days and Jones did his best...Buddy would have kicked 15 on anyone else...
I guess so. Unfortunately the right strategy doesn't always lead to the desired outcome. I reckon if Jones played from behind Buddy could have kicked 15.
No great shame having your colours lowered by Franklin having a day out, with no support.
....Plugger kicked ten on SOS...
I was there watching closely that day and SOS still won half the contests.