The 2020 season ends for us. What do we have to say?
We couldn't do it. Again, one bad quarter and we're done. How irritating can that be.
But at least we turned up this week. :'(
Why do we keep picking so many big tall blokes who end up being passengers?
This was the game to play Honey, Dow... Whomever, not Casboult + Pittonet + TdK + Macuseless.
Oh well, 1st vs 12th and it showed. Another 5 goal run, at least Harpo gave them a spray at half time.
Why do we keep picking so many big tall blokes who end up being passengers?
This was the game to play Honey, Dow... Whomever, not Casboult + Pittonet + TdK + Macuseless.
Cas was next to useless as was TDK for the most part. Our blokes need to out strength and kgs on, we get bumped off the contest so easily, Rayner has turned into a bull!
31 possessions to Walsh. Bet they don't give him any credit in the media.
31 possessions to Walsh. Bet they don't give him any credit in the media.
The ch 7 commentators gave him a fair wrap I thought. If it wasnt for him and Martin, that would have got real ugly.
CFC, the club that never learns from history. I thinks that's 9 games this season where they've allowed a run on of 5 goals or more. F'n pathetic.
We are honestly the easiest club to score against. If you get into our defensive 50, you're almost guaranteed a shot at goal. For all of you lauding the likes of Jones and Plowman you're kidding yourselves.
You don't progress and improve as club when you the likes of those two in key defensive posts. Plowman did ok today, but that's his good game in 5, you'll be waiting until round 5 2021 of his next contribution of note.
Cas was next to useless as was TDK for the most part. Our blokes need to out strength and kgs on, we get bumped off the contest so easily, Rayner has turned into a bull!
Cas is a forward/ruck. Knew once we picked 2 rucks he was playing badly especially in the conditions. So much better when he gets his hands on it around the ground. Why we picked so many talls in such conditions is beyond me. A couple more smalls at ground level could have made a real difference.
Won 39 qtrs. We finished one more winning qtr from the top of that ladder. Shows how those run ons in a qtr have hurt us.
Not that far away but there's issues that need to be sorted as they killing us.
Why do we keep picking so many big tall blokes who end up being passengers?
This was the game to play Honey, Dow... Whomever, not Casboult + Pittonet + TdK + Macuseless.
Casboult - 2 possessions, 1 goal, 5 hitouts
TDK - 3 possessions, 2 hitouts
McGovern - 6 possessions
Polson - 6 possessions - 33% DE
McKay - 6 possessions, 3 goals
Betts - 7 possessions, 1 goal assist.
....
Pittonet - 11 possessions, 29 hitouts
Surely you could lose a tall from them. But it shows that ball didn't get to our forwards much
....and that Polson is useless.
Staggered that Simmo has finished and Murphy and Betts get to go around again. Lions' mids treated Murphy with contempt. Knocked him off the ball like swatting away a fly.
The 2020 season ends for us. What do we have to say?
It's a season that might've been and have to learn from.
The ch 7 commentators gave him a fair wrap I thought. If it wasnt for him and Martin, that would have got real ugly.
Fun fact.
Martin - 11 touches, 0% DE. :o
Casboult - 2 possessions, 1 goal, 5 hitouts
TDK - 3 possessions, 2 hitouts
McGovern - 6 possessions
Polson - 6 possessions - 33% DE
McKay - 6 possessions, 3 goals
Betts - 7 possessions, 1 goal assist.
....
Pittonet - 11 possessions, 29 hitouts
Surely you could lose a tall from them. But it shows that ball didn't get to our forwards much
....and that Polson is useless.
TDK was an almost player tonight. Got his hands to alot but never held one.
One of Martins intercepts ended up a handball to Betts which ended up in a goal to Gibbons, so that stat is wrong.
Won 39 qtrs. We finished one more winning qtr from the top of that ladder. Shows how those run ons in a qtr have hurt us.
Not that far away but there's issues that need to be sorted as they killing us.
Sums it up pretty well.
We kept starting slowly in games early on. We corrected that but then kept having those lapses. The most consistent thing about our season was our ability to have a massive brain fade in almost every match.
One of Martins intercepts ended up a handball to Betts which ended up in a goal to Gibbons, so that stat is wrong.
Stats have now gone offline.
You might be right.
Gave effort but beaten by a stronger team and won’t beat any of the better teams when we concede 5 goals plus in a row.
Still a fair bit of work to do and way off the better teams but would have been much closer tonight if MC had of picked the team correctly.
Cas Pit and TDK should never all play in the same team let alone on a wet night. And selections Polson yet again is beyond any sense. Same with giving Eddie another year. Makes little sense when looking at his output.
Way too regularly does the MC make dumb selection decisions that make our task to improve harder then it should be.
Another blue by MC imo. Too tall given the conditions.
Missed Setters. Got done over by the umps again. Just when you think it improved (Fair last round), they pull another howler out. What was it 20 - 9? How many perfect tackles did we lay. Yet no reward. Our club needs to whinge like Clarko and the Scott's do.
Rich needed a man, he never really defends and is used in an attacking role, Gibbons was the wrong player for him and we obviously did zero scouting as Rich plays that loose attacker from half back every week.
That first goal he kicked was a shocker being allowed to run and take the easy receive, should never have happened.
Not sure why Cripps played, in fact he should have been rested ages ago...shoulder injury and taped up like Judd, what a surprise.
The club needed to cut the cord and let Cripps rest and make other players more responsible...thought Walsh and Martin stepped up tonight and did the dirty work at the fall of the ball and were very good. Harry was very good, his marking a feature and he kicked straight, too many talls though and we didnt have enough ground troops down forward.
Thought Plowman did well on Cameron and Pittonet was very handy vs good opposition.
Effort was there, we just lack class and polish to compete for 4 quarters....
Umpiring was poor IMO and some strange decisions made that were not consistent.
Polson had a shocker, whats new.......McGovern was a passenger again although it wasnt a night for marking players.
Fun facts: We kicked 6.1 and the behind was rushed so no one missed. Also, every player laid at least one tackle. Cunningham had a game high 9, Murphy had 6.
Another blue by MC imo. Too tall given the conditions.
Missed Setters. Got done over by the umps again. Just when you think it improved (Fair last round), they pull another howler out. What was it 20 - 9? How many perfect tackles did we lay. Yet no reward. Our club needs to whinge like Clarko and the Scott's do.
That was a blunder of the highest order. We often struggled at ground level.
Gave effort but beaten by a stronger team and won’t beat any of the better teams when we concede 5 goals plus in a row.
Still a fair bit of work to do and way off the better teams but would have been much closer tonight if MC had of picked the team correctly.
Cas Pit and TDK should never all play in the same team let alone on a wet night. And selections Polson yet again is beyond any sense. Same with giving Eddie another year. Makes little sense when looking at his output.
Way too regularly does the MC make dumb selection decisions that make our task to improve harder then it should be.
Bad night to pick them all.
Eddie needs to be played up the ground more when he's struggling up forward. He was alot more creative in the 2nd half up the ground, one of the few with skills. Don't think he touched it up forward in the first half.
31 possessions to Walsh. Bet they don't give him any credit in the media.
Correct ✅
Thank goodness we have Walsh.
Don’t Understand at all why we didn’t play Cottrell
And/Or Honey.
Didn’t like Pitts game til the end.
Why play Cripps when he’s injured.
crap end to Simos Career IMO. Had our opportunities and to me, only Kennedy showed heart for the Whole 4 quarters.
We get to the footy first plenty, but we are so far from being clean with our collection and disposal it's not funny.
Effort wasted!
To add some indignity we aren't big enough, physical enough or fast enough to hang back, so it becomes a lose lose scenario for us!
Who's the better player to have kept? Simpson or Polson? Don't answer that.
Didn’t like Pitts game til the end.
Funny how everyone sees something different, I'd say in crap conditions for big blokes it was probably Pittonet's and McKay's best games for us!
Final thoughts,after missing the finals AGAIN!!
PLEASE Mark Murphy, do the right thing by the club and retire.
He can't stick a tackle to save his life. His shoulders are stuffed and he's afraid of a dislocation. He had his jaw broken, and doesn't want it to happen again so he skirts packs rather than go in hard. Add to that his decision making and the little kicks he does which are disastrous for the team, and only selfishness would make him play on.
Eddie is gone. Ambassador for the club, great. Playing next year, no way.
Here are some others that haven't got it. By that I mean, football brains, the courage to tackle and tackle hard, and general ability to play the game at the highest level.
Cunningham. He gave us one good game this year, and that's all we got out of him, and we won't get any more. He missed a tackle in the last quarter and stood in the centre of the ground not even bothering to chase. That's him in a nutshell.
Poulson, not up to it. OK reserves player, nothing more.
Petrevski Seaton, tackling virtually non existent against opponents bigger than him. Doesn't want to get hurt. We don't get enough out of him. He isn't good enough to win us a game.
Williamson must learn to kick with his right foot. Simpson did. If he can't, he's no good to us because he's too predictable. Simmo never was.
Mcgovern, getting 700 large a year, to stand there. It's actually sickening to watch his virtual non participation.
Plowman, as Jack Dyer used to say, a good ordinary player. But he's a turnover merchant and too easily out bodied.
Gibbons, can't kick, and the big boys find him out. Another one who won't win you a flag.
Dow, too weak, hasn't built up physically, and can't kick.
There are more, but those are the ones that come to mind at the moment.
So, the fact is, that it is a miracle that we won 7 games, and came close in others, carrying so many passengers.
The good.
Obviously, Cripps, Walsh, Mackay, Weitering, the Curnows, hopefully Charlie is back bigger than ever next year. Levi has been good, but is 31 next year. So is Ed Curnow, but he's a different type of player with at least two more decent years in him.
We need more out of Jack Martin, hopefully he will have an injury free year, but the class and ability is there.
Bottom line.
Get rid of the passengers, the blokes who won't go in, the ones who can't stick a tackle, the ones who will look at who is coming towards them as they go to pick up the ball, rather than picking it up first and being prepared to take the hit if and when it comes.
We need to be ruthless at the trade table.
We need coaches who can actually teach our players the skills of the game, so that they hit targets rather than continuously turn the ball over.
And we need Teague, to be less of a mate, and more of a bastard to the players when they don't perform and not make excuses for them.
I really believe having supported this club for 67 years, that we aren't far away, but they have to be ruthless.
67,000 plus decided that they would become members this year. A record.
They did it, because they actually believed that we were not only headed in the right direction, but that playing in finals this year was a real possibility.
If the club allow emotion to over-rule common sense and refuse to make the hard uncompromising decisions to take the club forward, many thousands of those 67,000 will disappear, never to be members again.
It starts at the exit interviews on Monday, goes to the draft and the trade period and onto the pre-season where the team needs to be vastly improved skill and tackling ability wise, out of sight, compared to this year.
If they get it right, and it won't be easy, then all of us who have been starved of the ultimate success for 25 long years, might see us reach the pinnacle that we so desperately desire.
ANOTHER CARLTON PREMIERSHIP
Who's the better player to have kept? Simpson or Polson? Don't answer that.
It's Simmo's time, it is the right time for him to leave.
Polson has become a whipping boy, in crap conditions he wasn't as bad as fans make out, two weeks ago it was Plowman being baked by fans.
Polson is just not good enough. He isn't the whipping boy, plowman is. Plowman was our best if not second best tonight.
Walsh and McKay's late season form along with the Martin acquisition were some of the biggest positives for me on the season overall.
McKay in particular was clicking into a higher gear in that last month - he could be a superstar and partnering with Charlie is something to look forward to next year.
We don't bat deep enough beyond Walsh and Cripps (and Cripps was injured all year) in the midfield but there are a few options floating around there. Massive off season for us.
Who's the better player to have kept? Simpson or Polson? Don't answer that.
Polson won't be kept either.
Cas should be on the trade table imo. Don’t need him. I have a soft spot for him as I think he plays for the jumper more then most bit while he still has some value this is the last year we will get some th info for him.
He is pretty hopeless when it comes to roaming a forward line with other tall forwards. Too often he spoils a marking contest with Harry as he gets involved when he should not go up. If Charlie is back in next year and with TDK I can’t see a spot for him except as a back up. I would take the risk and put him on the trade table.
Back on tonight’s game Walsh is a guy running star in the making if not one already. So rapt we have him. Martin is also a much better player then I have him credit for. Os willing to do the hard stuff and is very creative with ball in hand.
Thought Kennedy works hard all night and how we retain him.
Polson is just not good enough. He isn't the whipping boy, plowman is. Plowman was our best if not second best tonight.
Agree on both counts.
Cas should be on the trade table imo. Don’t need him. I have a soft spot for him as I think he plays for the jumper more then most bit while he still has some value this is the last year we will get some th info for him.
He is pretty hopeless when it comes to roaming a forward line with other tall forwards. Too often he spoils a marking contest with Harry as he gets involved when he should not go up. If Charlie is back in next year and with TDK I can’t see a spot for him except as a back up. I would take the risk and put him on the trade table.
Back on tonight’s game Walsh is a guy running star in the making if not one already. So rapt we have him. Martin is also a much better player then I have him credit for. Os willing to do the hard stuff and is very creative with ball in hand.
Thought Kennedy works hard all night and how we retain him.
Its amazing. Casboult was on tonight. Threw his weight around and was doing well until he lost that marking contest against neale. After that he went into his shell and was a lost cause.
Its amazing. Casboult was on tonight. Threw his weight around and was doing well until he lost that marking contest against neale. After that he went into his shell and was a lost cause.
Levi's aggression is artificial, it doesn't come naturally to him and when Brisbane lifted intensity and aggression he retreated.
In all, a good effort against a top side. The difference came down to the frees and the period we couldn't clear it from d50. Resulting in coughing up unanswered goals.
Our marks i50, tackles, ruck and clearance work were there abouts. Our kicking for goal was as good as you'd expect in the wet.
I thought Willo played well after a quiet patch. Thank goodness for Samo, who played like it was dry. Simmo finished an outstanding career in full flight. Jones 1% created a headache. Plow had some good patches and got the better of his opponent, as did Weiters aside a couple of poor kicks when the heat was on. Polson I'm afraid doesn't have it, despite having mental toughness to burn. He was BB's love child IMO. Experiment over, and the results are in.
Jack is exactly what we hoped he'd be. Walsh is just all class and Ed did Ed. Kennedy was good around stoppages.
MC responsible for the mismatched of our talls. H made his mark and the most of his opportunities. Imagine when he can play like that consistently 😏😏Gibbo, Cunners, and Eddie quiet. Albeit on the back of bugger all i50's.
Frustrating when at times we looked so good, then went missing. Glad the boys fought back for our Champ Simmo.
#thanksSimmo 👏
#thanksKreuz 👏
Final thoughts,after missing the finals AGAIN!!
PLEASE Mark Murphy, do the right thing by the club and retire.
He can't stick a tackle to save his life. His shoulders are stuffed and he's afraid of a dislocation. He had his jaw broken, and doesn't want it to happen again so he skirts packs rather than go in hard. Add to that his decision making and the little kicks he does which are disastrous for the team, and only selfishness would make him play on.
Eddie is gone. Ambassador for the club, great. Playing next year, no way.
Here are some others that haven't got it. By that I mean, football brains, the courage to tackle and tackle hard, and general ability to play the game at the highest level.
Cunningham. He gave us one good game this year, and that's all we got out of him, and we won't get any more. He missed a tackle in the last quarter and stood in the centre of the ground not even bothering to chase. That's him in a nutshell.
Poulson, not up to it. OK reserves player, nothing more.
Petrevski Seaton, tackling virtually non existent against opponents bigger than him. Doesn't want to get hurt. We don't get enough out of him. He isn't good enough to win us a game.
Williamson must learn to kick with his right foot. Simpson did. If he can't, he's no good to us because he's too predictable. Simmo never was.
Mcgovern, getting 700 large a year, to stand there. It's actually sickening to watch his virtual non participation.
Plowman, as Jack Dyer used to say, a good ordinary player. But he's a turnover merchant and too easily out bodied.
Gibbons, can't kick, and the big boys find him out. Another one who won't win you a flag.
Dow, too weak, hasn't built up physically, and can't kick.
There are more, but those are the ones that come to mind at the moment.
So, the fact is, that it is a miracle that we won 7 games, and came close in others, carrying so many passengers.
The good.
Obviously, Cripps, Walsh, Mackay, Weitering, the Curnows, hopefully Charlie is back bigger than ever next year. Levi has been good, but is 31 next year. So is Ed Curnow, but he's a different type of player with at least two more decent years in him.
We need more out of Jack Martin, hopefully he will have an injury free year, but the class and ability is there.
Bottom line.
Get rid of the passengers, the blokes who won't go in, the ones who can't stick a tackle, the ones who will look at who is coming towards them as they go to pick up the ball, rather than picking it up first and being prepared to take the hit if and when it comes.
We need to be ruthless at the trade table.
We need coaches who can actually teach our players the skills of the game, so that they hit targets rather than continuously turn the ball over.
And we need Teague, to be less of a mate, and more of a bastard to the players when they don't perform and not make excuses for them.
I really believe having supported this club for 67 years, that we aren't far away, but they have to be ruthless.
67,000 plus decided that they would become members this year. A record.
They did it, because they actually believed that we were not only headed in the right direction, but that playing in finals this year was a real possibility.
If the club allow emotion to over-rule common sense and refuse to make the hard uncompromising decisions to take the club forward, many thousands of those 67,000 will disappear, never to be members again.
It starts at the exit interviews on Monday, goes to the draft and the trade period and onto the pre-season where the team needs to be vastly improved skill and tackling ability wise, out of sight, compared to this year.
If they get it right, and it won't be easy, then all of us who have been starved of the ultimate success for 25 long years, might see us reach the pinnacle that we so desperately desire.
ANOTHER CARLTON PREMIERSHIP
I love this post
I love this post
Big Nic is named well.
Casboult - 2 possessions, 1 goal, 5 hitouts
TDK - 3 possessions, 2 hitouts
McGovern - 6 possessions
Polson - 6 possessions - 33% DE
McKay - 6 possessions, 3 goals
Betts - 7 possessions, 1 goal assist.
....
Pittonet - 11 possessions, 29 hitouts
Surely you could lose a tall from them. But it shows that ball didn't get to our forwards much
....and that Polson is useless.
Pittonet and TDK are currently ruckmen and playing both simply means that Levi never gets warm.
The only benefit provided by McGovern in defense is that Plowman and Williamson don't have to try and match up on taller forwards.
Polson is just not good enough. He isn't the whipping boy, plowman is. Plowman was our best if not second best tonight.
I agree about Plowman; he has played well when not required to play on the third tall forward. When he does, he panics and grabs to give away free kicks- also, he should never, ever be tasked with kicking in duties.
Levi's aggression is artificial, it doesn't come naturally to him and when Brisbane lifted intensity and aggression he retreated.
I’ve never seen a guy so disheartened when beaten for the ball. His whole body slumps in resignation. And you’re right - body on body work doesn’t come naturally to him, his timing is all off. When Neale outmarked him the commentators pointed out the kick was to the wrong side of Casboult (we are very poor in this regard). So maybe it’s a combination of poor positioning (should have done the quick peel off 360 pirouette and emerged on Neale’s right side) AND lack of strength through the hips?
But then, when the poor guy does show some genuine aggression a la that perfect tackle, he gets pinged.
I agree about Plowman; he has played well when not required to play on the third tall forward. When he does, he panics and grabs to give away free kicks- also, he should never, ever be tasked with kicking in duties.
I agree with that, he was excellent yesterday. Perhaps as Kruddler pointed out the other week he wasn't getting the right match ups due to SPS and/or Simpson taking the non marking players.
I agree with that, he was excellent yesterday. Perhaps as Kruddler pointed out the other week he wasn't getting the right match ups due to SPS and/or Simpson taking the non marking players.
I think Plowman suffers from the Bret Thornton problem.
Is a good player, who is asked to play on players he shouldn't have to most weeks because we have nobody else to do it.
I don't know how we can fit them all in, but i'd like to see Marchbank slotting back into the back 6 as he takes the players Plowman would struggle with, and has had to take in 2020.
I agree about Plowman; he has played well when not required to play on the third tall forward. When he does, he panics and grabs to give away free kicks- also, he should never, ever be tasked with kicking in duties.
Plowman typifies our side, the huge gap between his best and worst must be closed if we are to progress.
In an ideal world Marchbank and MacCreadie were supposed to be established members of our back six, but they've played, what 10 games, between them in the last three seasons? Chuck in Williamson and our defensive set up has spent the past 4 seasons on the hoist awaiting parts.
Walsh knifing through the pack in the last two minutes from the ruck contest would have been GOTY contender if he'd nailed it. Brilliant roving and anticipation.
Walsh knifing through the pack in the last two minutes from the ruck contest would have been GOTY contender if he'd nailed it. Brilliant roving and anticipation.
Just needed to slam it in the boot quicker and it would have been spectacular.
Disappointed to lose in the end, we found some spirit in th 3rd but too many turnovers and mistakes (and ump decisions!) to make up for. I think we desperately need to find a way to grow our young talent which I think is to an extent, Walsh excepted, playing in Crippa's shadow. To me we seemed to grow as a unit after he went off. Btw, I'm not criticising him, but playing as injured as he obviously is says to the players that they are not good enough without him.
There were a couple of times last night when Cripps and Walsh seemed to know exactly where the other was without even looking.
They're developing a terrific understanding.
There were a couple of times last night when Cripps and Walsh seemed to know exactly where the other was without even looking.
They're developing a terrific understanding.
The look away handpass chain was great footy for a goal. We really need to look after Cripps and get him some help so we can see more of that.
Still scratching my head... did Simmo really retire? Because the bloke I saw running around for us last night looked like he could go another coupla seasons, and was certainly better than a good few others. I wonder if a young side needing a leader down back to help out (Hodge to BrisVegas) might offer him a gig?
Eddie was better when moved into the action... blokes were getting cold up forward! Although we only got a glimpse, his skills in the wet were evident. But, sheesh, we'll need more from Edwardo next year. Perhaps when we sort out our forward line woes and delivery into said forward line, we'll see better from Edwardo and other small forwards.
Is it my imagination or has Gibbo gone off the boil in the past few games he played?
The Good: We won the first, third and final quarters on the scoreboard. In those three quarters I really liked what I saw - a dangerous side, with some ripper players and genuine grit in difficult conditions against a top 2 side in good form...
Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Plowman, Williamson, SPS, TDK, Kennedy, Crippa's courage, Curnow and Martin... and dare I say McGovern looked a far better prospect down back, than up forward.
Seeing the TT giving a well deserved spray at half time. Good to see him NOT being Mr Nice Guy. Good for him too, especially seeing the results. Though I really like his 'public' demeanor and his relaxed approach in that environment... good image for the club. But knowing that he can bring uncompromising heat when needed is very encouraging, and draws a line in the sand with the players. Creates boundaries and instills discipline and respect. Ripper stuff.
The Bad:
Two bad skill errors from Weitering and Newnes and the whole side goes to water... again. This is where we're brittle and soft between the lugholes. Those 5 unanswered goals from BrisVegas ruined any chance of victory for us - as it did so often throughout the season, 9 times apparently. Hopefully in the off season when blokes can all train together we can drill this situation until their ears bleed. Goal for 2021, no more allowing situations where we fold under heat... instead, replace it with US slamming on 5+ goals in rapid succession, out with the old, in with the new... replace the negative with a positive.
Casboult and Murphy are NOT in our best 22. The number of times Murphy took short steps when it was 'his turn' was embarrassing - waited for his opponent to make the play, so he'd then go the soft tackle - that's just fckd and sets a shyte example from a leader and can undermine character and ruthlessness in a side.
We all know that Casboult is nie on useless these days without rucking duties... so we park him up forward! And when the horse has bolted... we put him in the ruck. Should not have played. As others have noted, he's a gentle giant who cannot impose his considerable size on the game. One big too many in last night's side... which many here noted. Should play twos next year and be a back up ruckman only.
The Ugly:
Those two turnovers resulting in easy goals to BrisVegas. Watching Cuningham handball at the feet of team mates. Yes, he got plenty of tackles but again is just so conditional in what he goes for... how often was he flat footed with his head seemingly in the clouds. Does he do a reefer before a game?
The look away handpass chain was great footy for a goal. We really need to look after Cripps and get him some help so we can see more of that.
He was missing his running mate Setterfield last night.
I'd like to think that Kemp comes on and can spend some time running through the middle as well. Will ease the pressure on Cripps and give opposition mids nightmares.
Not sure Kemp is a true mid, more akin to a KP who runs on ball at times.
I remember when Murphy did his shoulder diving full pelt at the ball only to hit Hodge who was there earlier. You could see it was going to happen but he went anyway. Now he can't , mentally ,wrap his arms around an opponent. I don't know if he can physically.
He went too hard early in his career and is paying for it now. What a shame but you can't afford to have him out there, especially when we're in the finals next year.
I think Plowman suffers from the Bret Thornton problem.
Is a good player, who is asked to play on players he shouldn't have to most weeks because we have nobody else to do it.
I don't know how we can fit them all in, but i'd like to see Marchbank slotting back into the back 6 as he takes the players Plowman would struggle with, and has had to take in 2020.
Agreed Plowman plays on both Talls and smalls and is always getting one of the most difficult forwards every week, going to be an interesting trade/ draft period for us we really need to bring in some pace and elite kicks, no more kids with questionable kicking skills if they can't kick it at an elite level we need to move on to the next guy who can.
We are, IMO, somewhere between 2/4 and 3/4 of the way to being a decent side. Whilst I accept the "quarters won" stat can give the impression of proximity, my concern is the optics and the reality of being "in games". There's many examples, but for the sake of brevity, look at last night's game. After 1/4 time, at what point did we look like winning it ? IMO, we never did. Getting close(ish) on the scoreboard is not quite the same thing as really being in the game. The difference might be subtle, but it's very real IMO.
Now, some random observations, opinions etc :
- Levi : after displaying some almost AA form earlier this season, he's gone backwards. Dropped marks he would clunk 9 times out of 10, gave up chases far too easily, and looked disinterested even after kicking his goal. Sad to see that great form slip away.
- Gibbons : is a real trier, form has been ok this year, had a slightly below average game last night.
- Ed Curnow : solid last night, one of his better season IMO.
- Newnes : ok
- Williamson : still coming to terms with AFL footy after a long lay off. Hopefully he can regain some of his pre injury form, because he looks far off that at the moment. Tries and showed some glimpses.
- Polson : last night wasn't the best night to try and save your career. Feel sorry for him to be honest.
- Cuningham : ok game
- Pittonet : good in the ruck and his work around the ground has improved over the season IMO. Good game, especially in those conditions.
- Weitering : solid and dependable - good season.
- Martin : a goer and a tough nut. Fought hard in the guts, and won his fair share of hard ball. Love him.
- Plowman : the good outweighs the bad, the problem is that his bad can be costly. i get the feeling he is the good boy scout of the team. I reckon he would be a favourite of the coach. Good game.
- Betts : after a fairytale start to the season, has gone off the boil big time. A mere shadow of his former self. Hopefully either regains form or spends most of next year off field.
- Walsh : good game and just a jet.
- Docherty and Jones : both ok.
- TDK : tough night for a young giant learning the caper.
- Mitch : I'll just leave him for now.
- McKay : his best is so so good. The gold standard for sticky hands IMO is Fevola, and McKay is very close. Good leading patterns, good hands, good shooting for goal. You can't ask for much more from a KPF. One of his top 3 games for the club.
- Cripps : injured and below his best.
- Kennedy : not a perfect game, but did enough good things to be a definite best 22 for mine.
- Simpson : nice to see him kick a goal. Shame we couldn't get a win for him, unlike his 250th (ahem ;D ). It's good to go out on something of a high, unlike some players who outstay their welcome. The decision is absolutely the right one IMO. We need to cut the umbilical cord to the old blokes.
- Murphy and SPS : average, somewhat underwhelming games for both.
Not sure Kemp is a true mid, more akin to a KP who runs on ball at times.
Agree, at U18 level it was his brave marking that is/ was his calling card, he is a player you run through the middle every now and then but in the main you play him in a position.
Kemp will be bad news for McGovern as he plays that 3rd tall role and is a more talented player imo.
Yep, and possibly Jsos as well. People who think he will be our midfield messiah will be sadly mistaken.
- Docherty and Jones : both ok.
Not bad from Docherty considered he wasn't playing. lol :P
Not bad from Docherty considered he wasn't playing. lol :P
Invisible you would say
Invisible you would say
Yep, my bad. I sometimes jot down notes during the game, but last night I didn't, and was just going off memory. I could've sworn he was out there. Oh well.
Not bad from Docherty considered he wasn't playing. lol :P
He'll be better for the run. ;D
Plowman typifies our side, the huge gap between his best and worst must be closed if we are to progress.
Plowman typifies our supporters. The gap between how bad his worst is and how bad our supporters think it is, is on a par to the Grand Caynon.
Yep, my bad. I sometimes jot down notes during the game, but last night I didn't, and was just going off memory. I could've sworn he was out there. Oh well.
Welcome to my world. 🤪
He'll be better for the run. ;D
I knew we were carrying some passengers last night, he must've been running alongside...
You can't implement a game plan if you keep kicking the ball to the opposition. Most of the Brisbane goals came from dodgy free kicks and turnovers. Can't do anything about the umpires but we can do something about our kicking. Harry McKay could be our next Kernahan and Charlie could be our next Fevola, Bosustow, Jesaulenko. What we sorely need in our forward line is on the ground sparkle. Our mid-field lacks pace. Unfortunately Cripps, Curnow, Murphy, Setterfield, Kennedy, Martin, Walsh, Gibbons & Newnes all run hard but don't have zip. Other than Fisher, the players with zip, Dow, Cuningham & O'Brien, don't run hard. Our backline lacks pace and foot skills. If they could hit a target or get the ball out of bounds long down the line it would really take a lot of pressure off them when things are not going well in the mid-field. Plowman is a case in point. He played really well against a very dangerous opponent as he has done all year, but his kicking often lets him and the team down. Jones is the otherone I hate havibng the ball when we are coming out of defence.
The long term positives for the season are Cottrell, Philps & Honey playing their first games, the improvement of TDK, Walsh & Setterfield, and the introduction of Martin, Pittonet & Newnes into the playing group. The negatives were those horrendous quarters we played just about every game. For next year we need to get Charlie, Jack, Newman & Marchbank back, we need big improvements out of Dow, O'Brien, McGovern, TDK, Stocker, Kemp, Cuningham, Philps & Cottrell and we need to improve our skills under pressure.
Welcome to my world. 🤪
Lol. It's a world that should be avoided at all costs, if possible.
We are, IMO, somewhere between 2/4 and 3/4 of the way to being a decent side. Whilst I accept the "quarters won" stat can give the impression of proximity, my concern is the optics and the reality of being "in games". There's many examples, but for the sake of brevity, look at last night's game. After 1/4 time, at what point did we look like winning it ? IMO, we never did. Getting close(ish) on the scoreboard is not quite the same thing as really being in the game. The difference might be subtle, but it's very real IMO.
Now, some random observations, opinions etc :
- Levi : after displaying some almost AA form earlier this season, he's gone backwards. Dropped marks he would clunk 9 times out of 10, gave up chases far too easily, and looked disinterested even after kicking his goal. Sad to see that great form slip away.
- Gibbons : is a real trier, form has been ok this year, had a slightly below average game last night.
- Ed Curnow : solid last night, one of his better season IMO.
- Newnes : ok
- Williamson : still coming to terms with AFL footy after a long lay off. Hopefully he can regain some of his pre injury form, because he looks far off that at the moment. Tries and showed some glimpses.
- Polson : last night wasn't the best night to try and save your career. Feel sorry for him to be honest.
- Cuningham : ok game
- Pittonet : good in the ruck and his work around the ground has improved over the season IMO. Good game, especially in those conditions.
- Weitering : solid and dependable - good season.
- Martin : a goer and a tough nut. Fought hard in the guts, and won his fair share of hard ball. Love him.
- Plowman : the good outweighs the bad, the problem is that his bad can be costly. i get the feeling he is the good boy scout of the team. I reckon he would be a favourite of the coach. Good game.
- Betts : after a fairytale start to the season, has gone off the boil big time. A mere shadow of his former self. Hopefully either regains form or spends most of next year off field.
- Walsh : good game and just a jet.
- Docherty and Jones : both ok.
- TDK : tough night for a young giant learning the caper.
- Mitch : I'll just leave him for now.
- McKay : his best is so so good. The gold standard for sticky hands IMO is Fevola, and McKay is very close. Good leading patterns, good hands, good shooting for goal. You can't ask for much more from a KPF. One of his top 3 games for the club.
- Cripps : injured and below his best.
- Kennedy : not a perfect game, but did enough good things to be a definite best 22 for mine.
- Simpson : nice to see him kick a goal. Shame we couldn't get a win for him, unlike his 250th (ahem ;D ). It's good to go out on something of a high, unlike some players who outstay their welcome. The decision is absolutely the right one IMO. We need to cut the umbilical cord to the old blokes.
- Murphy and SPS : average, somewhat underwhelming games for both.
Good random thoughts.
We were in the game to an extent but at the same time up against with that 2nd qtr. The number of qtrs won should've had us top 6 but it tells a huge story of where our issues are. Those bad qtrs/run ons/choking cost us a finals. Maybe it is telling us a story to that, while very competitive against anyone including the best, we weren't quite mentally ready to take the step there.
What happened to Teague's edict that we are supposed to play in the spirit of the game ? To me it looked like Kennedy and others were giving it to the Lions players when they missed goals etc. Were these comments of the rope-a-dope variety ? Did he change his mind ? Did the players ignore him ?
Good random thoughts.
............................
Thanks.
We are, IMO, somewhere between 2/4 and 3/4 of the way to being a decent side. Whilst I accept the "quarters won" stat can give the impression of proximity, my concern is the optics and the reality of being "in games". There's many examples, but for the sake of brevity, look at last night's game. After 1/4 time, at what point did we look like winning it ? IMO, we never did. Getting close(ish) on the scoreboard is not quite the same thing as really being in the game. The difference might be subtle, but it's very real IMO.
Now, some random observations, opinions etc :
- Levi : after displaying some almost AA form earlier this season, he's gone backwards. Dropped marks he would clunk 9 times out of 10, gave up chases far too easily, and looked disinterested even after kicking his goal. Sad to see that great form slip away.
- Gibbons : is a real trier, form has been ok this year, had a slightly below average game last night.
- Ed Curnow : solid last night, one of his better season IMO.
- Newnes : ok
- Williamson : still coming to terms with AFL footy after a long lay off. Hopefully he can regain some of his pre injury form, because he looks far off that at the moment. Tries and showed some glimpses.
- Polson : last night wasn't the best night to try and save your career. Feel sorry for him to be honest.
- Cuningham : ok game
- Pittonet : good in the ruck and his work around the ground has improved over the season IMO. Good game, especially in those conditions.
- Weitering : solid and dependable - good season.
- Martin : a goer and a tough nut. Fought hard in the guts, and won his fair share of hard ball. Love him.
- Plowman : the good outweighs the bad, the problem is that his bad can be costly. i get the feeling he is the good boy scout of the team. I reckon he would be a favourite of the coach. Good game.
- Betts : after a fairytale start to the season, has gone off the boil big time. A mere shadow of his former self. Hopefully either regains form or spends most of next year off field.
- Walsh : good game and just a jet.
- Docherty and Jones : both ok.
- TDK : tough night for a young giant learning the caper.
- Mitch : I'll just leave him for now.
- McKay : his best is so so good. The gold standard for sticky hands IMO is Fevola, and McKay is very close. Good leading patterns, good hands, good shooting for goal. You can't ask for much more from a KPF. One of his top 3 games for the club.
- Cripps : injured and below his best.
- Kennedy : not a perfect game, but did enough good things to be a definite best 22 for mine.
- Simpson : nice to see him kick a goal. Shame we couldn't get a win for him, unlike his 250th (ahem ;D ). It's good to go out on something of a high, unlike some players who outstay their welcome. The decision is absolutely the right one IMO. We need to cut the umbilical cord to the old blokes.
- Murphy and SPS : average, somewhat underwhelming games for both.
I thought Williamson was ok, gave us some drive and run and his kicking was good.
Gibbons had a shocker IMO, I'm a fan of VFL moneyball players but from what I could see was picked up by
Rich who was close to BOG and everytime he got the ball we suffered with those long kicks and he never had an opponent all night.
I thought Williamson was ok, gave us some drive and run and his kicking was good.
Gibbons had a shocker IMO, I'm a fan of VFL moneyball players but from what I could see was picked up by
Rich who was close to BOG and everytime he got the ball we suffered with those long kicks and he never had an opponent all night.
It seemed Williamson was playing more up around the wing even half forward at times.
I thought Williamson was ok, gave us some drive and run and his kicking was good.
Gibbons had a shocker IMO, I'm a fan of VFL moneyball players but from what I could see was picked up by
Rich who was close to BOG and everytime he got the ball we suffered with those long kicks and he never had an opponent all night.
Thats as much a coaching problem. You need to man up on Rich like others have done to us with Doc.
Thats as much a coaching problem. You need to man up on Rich like others have done to us with Doc.
I guess you need to man up closely on any player who is giving the opposition strong forward drive. Rich was certainly doing that.
our half forwards dont put enough pressure on opponents , we don't learn coll maynard cripps again,gws hayes bog ,and rich bog ,over to the coaches
I thought Williamson was ok, gave us some drive and run and his kicking was good.
Gibbons had a shocker IMO, I'm a fan of VFL moneyball players but from what I could see was picked up by
Rich who was close to BOG and everytime he got the ball we suffered with those long kicks and he never had an opponent all night.
If it were up to me, I'd challenge Willo to take his tank and fitness to the next level and play him in the midfield.
Thought Pittonet played a really good game last night....ordinary conditions but he battled in the ruck and on a few occasions took possession and booted it forward...an absolute competitor. Williamson played one of his better games and looks to have got a bit of confidence up in the last few weeks and is prepared to take it on...gets caught on his wrong side a bit but absolutely worth getting a lot of games into him this season.
On the assumption Curnow is fit next season, would have to think one of Casboult or McGovern has to go? If we play one ruckman, then Casboult plays that backup role much better and can rest forward or go back if needed...if McKay and Curnow are playing, impossible to see where McGovern can fit in.....if Marchbank can ever get fit, he's more suited to that third tall role than McGovern ever will be.
Love the way Martin goes about it...one of the few that is prepared to put his body on the line and go in hard. Hopefully he's better for it next year.
But if we can't sort out skills by hand and foot in the off-season, we'll be bottom 6 again. Yes it was set and slippery but how many times did Brisbane hit a target lace out.....and we hit them lace out on a few occasions too!
If it were up to me, I'd challenge Willo to take his tank and fitness to the next level and play him in the midfield.
Make a good tall winger would Williamson, hopefully his body holds up and we get more improvement next season.
One of my fav players as I have said before but needs a good season next year with lists getting tighter and probably more talent from other clubs around with clubs forced to cut players they would normally keep.
Make a good tall winger would Williamson, hopefully his body holds up and we get more improvement next season.
One of my fav players as I have said before but needs a good season next year with lists getting tighter and probably more talent from other clubs around with clubs forced to cut players they would normally keep.
Needs a decent run at string of games without injury to build confidence and continuity. Has good evasive skills (sidestep) and can get out of traffic and find clear air.
Make a good tall winger would Williamson, hopefully his body holds up and we get more improvement next season.
One of my fav players as I have said before but needs a good season next year with lists getting tighter and probably more talent from other clubs around with clubs forced to cut players they would normally keep.
Would love to see him on a wing. Let's use his long kicking. Wasted on HBF I think.
Make a good tall winger would Williamson, hopefully his body holds up and we get more improvement next season.
One of my fav players as I have said before but needs a good season next year with lists getting tighter and probably more talent from other clubs around with clubs forced to cut players they would normally keep.
Hey, there were really good signs from Willo last night, took on the game, went the dash (in difficult conditions) and his disposal by foot was accurate and penetrating... I really think he got some confidence last night and hopefully will carry this into next season, and, yep, winger who drifts back and forward - potential huge headache for opposition club. I, also, am a big wrap for this kid... bad start but coming along nicely. Oh, and got some shyte on his liver, we like that.
Yep, very pleased by how Willo is developing. Hopefully he'll go on with it next year.
Willo gets a bit of a pass. He's effectively a second year player thanks to injury.
Cannot believe some of the quotes about Martin
Instead of putting his head over the aggot he squibbed it big time and McCarthy goals
So screwing overrated
If don’t believe me watch the replay
The guy picks and chooses
Cannot believe some of the quotes about Martin
Instead of putting his head over the aggot he squibbed it big time and McCarthy goals
So screwing overrated
If don’t believe me watch the replay
The guy picks and chooses
I'm not sure about his efforts at the contest but he definitely picks and chooses about whether (or not) to chase when he doesn't have the ball. Has the speed when he wants to use it but too often his chase is half-hearted and he allows opponents to leave him behind when running into attacking positions.
Murphy and Cripps don't chase, why does Martin have higher expectations?
I'd be wary of drawing firm conclusions about work rate and chasing on the TV. Not being able to see what happens off camera is a big issue. I think all players from all clubs will give up the chase at some point, I think all players have to make a split second decision about whether to chase or not chase. i'm sure sometimes they may think some other mug will do it, or they may simply be too stuffed or focussing on the next contest. There may also be specific instructions from the coach about numbers at the contest vs numbers on the outside, as I've mentioned earlier.
I'd be wary of drawing firm conclusions about work rate and chasing on the TV. Not being able to see what happens off camera is a big issue.
Very wise
@PaulP
Also, I'd be very wary of assuming truth in accusations from social media that clubs have different expectations and rules for different players! ;D
Good to see Williamson on a wing. I wanted him as part of our midfield group this week. And good to see McGovern go back. I called for both. Happy Teague can make a couple of adjustments where required. Walsh into the middle is another this past month. He's better in there than out on a wing, that's for sure! Plus Cripps and Walsh have such a high standard, incredible appetite for the contest and seem to have a real connection.
Murphy and Cripps don't chase, why does Martin have higher expectations?
Murphy is a squib
We all know that we also he shouldn’t be on a list
Cripps never takes a backward step
Martin is severely overrated
Cannot believe some of the quotes about Martin
Instead of putting his head over the aggot he squibbed it big time and McCarthy goals
So screwing overrated
If don’t believe me watch the replay
The guy picks and chooses
Don’t agree at all. Maybe on that one occasion he could have gone harder but the bloke busts his butt and does a heap of hard running. He is also a very strong tackler.
I’m more then happy with him and wish others gave the effort he does.
Don’t agree at all. Maybe on that one occasion he could have gone harder but the bloke busts his butt and does a heap of hard running. He is also a very strong tackler.
I’m more then happy with him and wish others gave the effort he does.
I reckon Martin, Weitering, Walsh, and Ed Curnow would be virtual locks for a top 5 B+F finish. Very happy with Martin, and if we are complaining about him, we are in deep do doos.
Martin did shy away from that one contest and can be a dubious chaser but on the whole he is a good tackler, will stand his ground in marking contests and I thought he did more work at the coalface than usual and got his hands dirty a lot more.
His form has tapered before the Brisbane game a lot like it did at Gold Coast towards seasons end, maybe he didnt see the need to
bust his gut with no finals in sight and needs that carrot to give max effort.
Overall though he has a been a big win IMO and clearly is a class player who could become more of a matchwinner if we didnt have to use him doing hack work in the midfield to cover up our lack of depth. I want Martin forward more kicking and creating goals, his foot passing and vision is excellent and its a shame we dont have a couple more as talented mids who could do the job.
I reckon Martin, Weitering, Walsh, and Ed Curnow would be virtual locks for a top 5 B+F finish. Very happy with Martin, and if we are complaining about him, we are in deep do doos.
I suspect it's Weitering, Walsh leading, with ----------------> Jones, Ed and others someway back!
I suspect Plowman will be up there again, despite what many fans think of him!
Murphy and Cripps don't chase, why does Martin have higher expectations?
Murphy also picks and chooses; Cripps actually tries but often isn't fast enough to catch anyone.
That doesn't excuse speedy players, like Martin and SPS, who commonly think first before deciding whether to chase.
Ideally, players will be hungry for the chase (like a seagull after a chip) and react accordingly. Simmo isn't as fast as he used to be but he still reacts like he used to.
Needs a decent run at string of games without injury to build confidence and continuity. Has good evasive skills (sidestep) and can get out of traffic and find clear air.
Also noticed Willo shrugging a few tackles. That back injury rehab may have left him with a strong core.
You can't implement a game plan if you keep kicking the ball to the opposition. Most of the Brisbane goals came from dodgy free kicks and turnovers. Can't do anything about the umpires but we can do something about our kicking. Harry McKay could be our next Kernahan and Charlie could be our next Fevola, Bosustow, Jesaulenko. What we sorely need in our forward line is on the ground sparkle. Our mid-field lacks pace. Unfortunately Cripps, Curnow, Murphy, Setterfield, Kennedy, Martin, Walsh, Gibbons & Newnes all run hard but don't have zip. Other than Fisher, the players with zip, Dow, Cuningham & O'Brien, don't run hard. Our backline lacks pace and foot skills. If they could hit a target or get the ball out of bounds long down the line it would really take a lot of pressure off them when things are not going well in the mid-field. Plowman is a case in point. He played really well against a very dangerous opponent as he has done all year, but his kicking often lets him and the team down. Jones is the otherone I hate havibng the ball when we are coming out of defence.
The long term positives for the season are Cottrell, Philps & Honey playing their first games, the improvement of TDK, Walsh & Setterfield, and the introduction of Martin, Pittonet & Newnes into the playing group. The negatives were those horrendous quarters we played just about every game. For next year we need to get Charlie, Jack, Newman & Marchbank back, we need big improvements out of Dow, O'Brien, McGovern, TDK, Stocker, Kemp, Cuningham, Philps & Cottrell and we need to improve our skills under pressure.
Seem to say this every week - but, next year, what if....
get Charlie, Jack, Newman & Marchbank back, big improvements out of Dow, O'Brien, McGovern, TDK, Stocker, Kemp, Cuningham, Philps & Cottrell
plus say Williams & Saad & one other
doesnt this look like a really good side??
Murphy also picks and chooses; Cripps actually tries but often isn't fast enough to catch anyone.
That doesn't excuse speedy players, like Martin and SPS, who commonly think first before deciding whether to chase.
Ideally, players will be hungry for the chase (like a seagull after a chip) and react accordingly. Simmo isn't as fast as he used to be but he still reacts like he used to.
Could it be that players make an evaluation of whether or not they are likely to catch the opp player and if very unlikely why waste the energy trying? A bad look nevertheless.
Could it be that players make an evaluation of whether or not they are likely to catch the opp player and if very unlikely why waste the energy trying? A bad look nevertheless.
Indeed. It was one of the biggest black marks I had against Wiggins, back in the day. If he thought he was close enough, he was ferocious. But if the distance was one cm past where he thought he could make it, he didn't try. All players do it to some extent, but some guys never seem to give up, their 'radius of attempt', if you will, is just bigger than others. Stephen Silvagni was one of those. He would go for it at distances that others wouldn't, and he would get there more often than not. It made him what he was.
Could it be that players make an evaluation of whether or not they are likely to catch the opp player and if very unlikely why waste the energy trying? A bad look nevertheless.
That is no doubt the situation but not chasing an opponent who is running with the ball allows that player to deliver the ball under little or no pressure - much to the disadvantage of his defenders and the rest of the team.
I am not only talking about chasing an opponent who has the ball; I am also referring to failing to chase an opponent who is running to make position or to create a loose man in attack. Over the past couple of decades, we have had too many one-way players. Possibly the fastest (and most frustrating) of them was Chris Yarran.
OK thanks RR.
Indeed. It was one of the biggest black marks I had against Wiggins, back in the day. If he thought he was close enough, he was ferocious. But if the distance was one cm past where he thought he could make it, he didn't try. All players do it to some extent, but some guys never seem to give up, their 'radius of attempt', if you will, is just bigger than others. Stephen Silvagni was one of those. He would go for it at distances that others wouldn't, and he would get there more often than not. It made him what he was.
I think to me thats a man that knows his limitations.
Sometimes its not worth expending the energy for a perceived benefit, because you might need it when there is an actual benefit.
Us fans talk pick and choose, but in sports, sometimes you have to weigh up the benefits vs the consequences. Its not about not chasing either its about what the effect of chasing that man will do. Let him go, and he might deliver it nicely, but for each action there is a reaction. Chasing them back means more players following men into areas of the ground where they cannot be an outlet kick in the next chain of posessions.
For me that divides smarts vs ability. Players with limited ability need to sum this up accordingly and do what they think they can, rather than attempt what they know they cant.
Since this topic is still going, I said it in my original post, and I will say it again.
Without any doubt, one of the more selfish acts perpetrated on the Carlton Football Club in recent history, is Mark Murphy not offering to hang up the boots, but accepting another years contract.
He knows, just like I , and those on this site who don't wear blindfolds know, that he's gone.
He can't tackle. Not because he wouldn't do it under normal circumstances, but because his shoulders are stuffed and he risks a dislocation if he tackles. That's why you didn't see him actually tackle once this year. He either lunged at a player after the player was out of range, or came in as the second or third player to "tackle" the opposition player.
He won't go in and put his head over the ball. Mind you, he's not alone. Jack martin did it against the Lions, resulting in a goal to them. But at least Murphy's excuse is that he had his jaw broken a while ago, and he's afraid to get it broken again.
Frankly,I don't blame him for not wanting to tackle or put his body on the line by going in and under packs. In fact I empathise with him.
But this is a team sport, and if you can't do your job for the team, then do the decent thing and retire so that a player who doesn't have your issues can take your place.
All I can hope for, is that the club understand that he's not up to it any more, and that he is no longer an automatic selection.
Some posters on here would lead one to think that Murphy either has incriminating evidence on an assortment of coaches, list managers and other club officials, or has been pulling the wool over their eyes all these years. I'm guessing the club knows exactly his positive and negative attributes, and makes list decisions accordingly.
Since this topic is still going, I said it in my original post, and I will say it again.
Without any doubt, one of the more selfish acts perpetrated on the Carlton Football Club in recent history, is Mark Murphy not offering to hang up the boots, but accepting another years contract.
He knows, just like I , and those on this site who don't wear blindfolds know, that he's gone.
He can't tackle. Not because he wouldn't do it under normal circumstances, but because his shoulders are stuffed and he risks a dislocation if he tackles. That's why you didn't see him actually tackle once this year. He either lunged at a player after the player was out of range, or came in as the second or third player to "tackle" the opposition player.
He won't go in and put his head over the ball. Mind you, he's not alone. Jack martin did it against the Lions, resulting in a goal to them. But at least Murphy's excuse is that he had his jaw broken a while ago, and he's afraid to get it broken again.
Frankly,I don't blame him for not wanting to tackle or put his body on the line by going in and under packs. In fact I empathise with him.
But this is a team sport, and if you can't do your job for the team, then do the decent thing and retire so that a player who doesn't have your issues can take your place.
All I can hope for, is that the club understand that he's not up to it any more, and that he is no longer an automatic selection.
There is the view on this site that highly skilled players who are more elite with their ball use dont have to bother with meat and potatoes acts like chasing, tackling or putting the body on the line. Thats for meatheads like Robbo who were/are seen as handicapped skill wise and only fit for sacrificing their body parts for the good of these elite ball users.
I dont subscribe to that theory and clubs like Richmond and Hawthorn havent over the years either and thats why they are successful.
Murphy has survived 8000 list changes, 5 or 6 coaches, and a plethora of assistants, list managers etc. Completely different individuals who would not be swayed by each other's biases, likes, dislikes etc. He has survived public criticism from Matheison. His survival is cited by some as clear evidence that our club is professionally inept. Whilst I have shouted more than most about our club's problems, Murphy's continued presence on our list would be a mere trifle at best. He's had a million different eyes watching him, analysing him, assessing him, but none apparently can see through the charade.
Since this topic is still going, I said it in my original post, and I will say it again.
Without any doubt, one of the more selfish acts perpetrated on the Carlton Football Club in recent history, is Mark Murphy not offering to hang up the boots, but accepting another years contract.
That's a crap post. Sorry. This is just whipping boy stuff showing no respect to a bloke that has played 285 games for the club and given his all. If he think he can play he is entitled to ask for a contract. No for you, me or anyone else to tell him otherwise. It is up to the club to say no if they didn't think he had anymore to offer and give him the choice of retiring or trying to get to another club. As Daisy found, we are quick to do that if we think someone's time is up.
Murphy is a squib
We all know that we also he shouldn’t be on a list
Cripps never takes a backward step
Martin is severely overrated
See you talk as much crap on here as you do on the other site. Wouldn't matter if we won a flag you'd find something wrong.
Since this topic is still going, I said it in my original post, and I will say it again.
Without any doubt, one of the more selfish acts perpetrated on the Carlton Football Club in recent history, is Mark Murphy not offering to hang up the boots, but accepting another years contract.
He knows, just like I , and those on this site who don't wear blindfolds know, that he's gone.
He can't tackle. Not because he wouldn't do it under normal circumstances, but because his shoulders are stuffed and he risks a dislocation if he tackles. That's why you didn't see him actually tackle once this year. He either lunged at a player after the player was out of range, or came in as the second or third player to "tackle" the opposition player.
He won't go in and put his head over the ball. Mind you, he's not alone. Jack martin did it against the Lions, resulting in a goal to them. But at least Murphy's excuse is that he had his jaw broken a while ago, and he's afraid to get it broken again.
Frankly,I don't blame him for not wanting to tackle or put his body on the line by going in and under packs. In fact I empathise with him.
But this is a team sport, and if you can't do your job for the team, then do the decent thing and retire so that a player who doesn't have your issues can take your place.
All I can hope for, is that the club understand that he's not up to it any more, and that he is no longer an automatic selection.
It's the wrong question (and answer).
Is Murphy likely to be in our best 22 - 25 players in 2021.
If the answer's yes, you keep him.....
And I consider the answer is yes (even if that is an indictment, to some degree, on a few of our emerging players).
It's the wrong question (and answer).
Is Murphy likely to be in our best 22 - 25 players in 2021.
If the answer's yes, you keep him.....
And I consider the answer is yes (even if that is an indictment, to some degree, on a few of our emerging players).
Sorry, but with a fully fit list, Murphy aint anywhere near being in the best 22. Sensational bloke who's given his all, but time and injuries have caught up with him.
Sorry, but with a fully fit list, Murphy aint anywhere near being in the best 22. Sensational bloke who's given his all, but time and injuries have caught up with him.
How many mids are ahead of him.
I'll give you Cripps and Walsh.
I'll even let you include Ed Curnow.
Will Setterfield is not there yet, but could be by the end of 2021.
Who else?
Does anyone really believe the final decision is Murphy's whether he goes around again.
If the club didn't want him for 2021 he would have been given the opportunity to retire.
Sorry, but with a fully fit list, Murphy aint anywhere near being in the best 22. Sensational bloke who's given his all, but time and injuries have caught up with him.
I bet he will be. If he's not then we are in very good shape having got in a few recruits
Having read the replies of those who disagree with me, I will add this.
Unfortunately, sometimes the heart rules the head. It happens all the time with parents and their children. And to many in a football club, over time, if they are there long enough, the players become like children and the powers that be are their parents.
Someone in authority, preferably the coach, should have sat Murphy down, and shown him a montage of his season. When he should have tackled and didn't. When he should have gone in hard and didn't. And while he was at it, reminded him of the turnovers, stupid little kicks and the multitude of other errors that have permeated his game, in particular, over the previous 2-3 years.
I agree that they must be aware of his shortcomings. However, as I stated above, it's heart ruling head stuff.
And that does Murphy, but more importantly, his team mates and the club, a huge disservice.
Add to that, the salary that Murphy is taking up, probably around $300-400,000, which would be freed up to give the club the best opportunity to draft a top line player, and Murphy and the club have, in my opinion, totally let down themselves, and more importantly, our supporters.
If there is at least one thing that my 70 plus years on this planet have taught me, it is that the hardest decisions that we have to make in life, are the ones where, as difficult as it always is, our head has to overrule our heart.
And from that life long experience, I can tell you, that the head is right 99.9% of the time.
The club and Murphy, have let us down. Murphy has been a great asset to the club over the course of his career. But the time had come for him to retire gracefully and with dignity, for the good of the club and its future.
That he hasn't done so of his own volition, is in my opinion, a selfish act.
That the club haven't told him that his time was up, is symptomatic of the way the place is run and why we languish in the bottom half of the ladder, and will continue to do so unless and until the powers that be at the club, are prepared to make the difficult decisions that are needed to take our club where we all want it to be.
Is the heart overruling the head a selective action ? It didn't seem to apply to Simpson.
He was offered a contract because they felt he still had something to contribute.
Is the heart overruling the head a selective action ? It didn't seem to apply to Simpson.
Did you ever see Simpson shirk the issue, not tackle hard,not put his head over the ball? Totally different player to Murphy.
He was offered a contract because they felt he still had something to contribute.
Did you ever see Simpson shirk the issue and not tackle? Did you ever see him not go in hard for the ball head down, putting his body on the line every time. And the bloke was one of the skinniest players to ever pull on a boot.
A totally different player to Murphy. Add to that, if in fact he WAS offered another year, a man who, as much as he probably would have loved to keep playing, knew that his time was up.
No selfishness where Simmo is concerned. He made the right decision, not only for himself, but for the good of the club.
If only Murphy would have done the same.
@bignic Ill play
Simmon averaged 2.61 tackles a game, 6.02 CP's
Murph is averaging 3.59 tackles a game, 9,51 CP's
What say you?
Murphy getting another year tells you how thin our midfield is for depth and why Wines, Graham are being chased and why Williams was recruited.
Did you ever see Simpson shirk the issue and not tackle? Did you ever see him not go in hard for the ball head down, putting his body on the line every time. And the bloke was one of the skinniest players to ever pull on a boot.
A totally different player to Murphy. Add to that, if in fact he WAS offered another year, a man who, as much as he probably would have loved to keep playing, knew that his time was up.
No selfishness where Simmo is concerned. He made the right decision, not only for himself, but for the good of the club.
If only Murphy would have done the same.
You are projecting your own biases and opinions on this issue, none of which are relevant. Murphy did not hold a gun to the club's head. He was offered a 1 year extension, not because the club had a sudden attack of the warm and fuzzies, but because they feel he has something to offer. He has done nothing immoral or dishonorable.
It has been posted on here that Simpson did in fact want to play on, but the club said no.
It has been posted on here that Simpson did in fact want to play on, but the club said no.
In his pre game interview, it was fairly obvious his meetings with the coach didnt go to his liking. He stated that when he was asked what he wanted to do, he said "I wanted to go on". But then after discussion with coaches, he decided it would be best to hang up the boots. So clearly his idea of "going on" and the clubs were different.
In his pre game interview, it was fairly obvious his meetings with the coach didnt go to his liking. He stated that when he was asked what he wanted to do, he said "I wanted to go on". But then after discussion with coaches, he decided it would be best to hang up the boots. So clearly his idea of "going on" and the clubs were different.
Thanks GTC. I do recall reading something along those lines.
@bignic
Ill play
Simmon averaged 2.61 tackles a game, 6.02 CP's
Murph is averaging 3.59 tackles a game, 9,51 CP's
What say you?
footage of those tackles?
I would think with the return of Doc, the arrival of Williams and the hopeful return of Newman then Simmo's jig was up sadly. Murph is a different situation as we are not exactly drowning in mids atm.
footage of those tackles?
You'll have to give me some time, 285 games to edit.
It takes me a while to collect my thoughts after a loss :-[
Our second quarter was atrocious but when you consider that Robinson, Cameron, Rich, Rayner and Coleman were all gifted goals from dubious frees and we got nothing in our forward line, a three goal loss isn’t all that bad.
Since this topic is still going, I said it in my original post, and I will say it again.
Edited for accuracy :)
Short memories, some people.
"Let Murphy go, in order to give the kids a go"
Remember what happenned at the start of '19 when Bolton played all the kids in the middle - we got smashed. Teague has even been lambasted as a 1 trick pony, because all he has done is to play Curnow and Murphy on the ball and that is what has turned this around.
Yes, he cant tackle anymore. Yes he butchers the ball more often than he should as a bloke with elite skills. Yes, he has slowed down a touch.
But, he is still best 22. Still provides polish that we sorely lack. His ability to kick a goal out of nothing, or to be a crucial link in a centre clearance that actually leads to something, or to be clean when others are fumbly are what we desperately need.
At this writing, yes, he is best 22. Whether he is next season will depend on trades, injuries, and how quickly the kids on our list get to the level required. If all three work in our favour, Murph may be a back up and play only a handful of games.
At this writing, yes, he is best 22. Whether he is next season will depend on trades, injuries, and how quickly the kids on our list get to the level required. If all three work in our favour, Murph may be a back up and play only a handful of games.
Purely by virtue of his experience, he falls into the 22 for mine
As our midfield gets better, Murphy will perform better too. The less rough and tumble stuff he has to do the more effective he will be.
There are still times when coaches switch players to stop his influence when he is up and running.
Murphy is not going to get better.
He's not a natural outside player and his body can't cope with the demands of playing inside anymore.
He should have retired.
Murphy is not going to get better.
He's not a natural outside player and his body can't cope with the demands of playing inside anymore.
He should have retired.
Ill say it once and Ill say it again, for the time he has left, I would use him predominantly as a small fwd. Can be lively around goal and CAN draw a free when deep fwd, the number of goals kicked from frees these days is insane.
Ill say it once and Ill say it again, for the time he has left, I would use him predominantly as a small fwd. Can be lively around goal and CAN draw a free when deep fwd, the number of goals kicked from frees these days is insane.
Unless you play for Carlton. For some reason all we do is give them away at both ends of the ground and our opposition dont.
Murphy is not going to get better.
He's not a natural outside player and his body can't cope with the demands of playing inside anymore.
He should have retired.
Yet as much as his haters will hate it, he'll probably be Top 5 in our B&F with maybe only one or two midfielders ahead of him!
It's a harsh reality!
Yet as much as his haters will hate it, he'll probably be Top 5 in our B&F with maybe only one or two midfielders ahead of him!
It's a harsh reality!
Best and fairests are a joke.
Best and fairests are a joke.
Unless in someone's opinion the player they think is the best player wins it, at which time it justifies an opinion.
On all other occasions it's a joke!
B & F's can be a popularity poll for the coaches favorites...
It's an award that gives a good indication of those players who consistently perform to game plans and instructions we supporters are not necessarily privvy too.
If players don't do the jobs they're asked to do they wont get votes.
...and yep there will be some bias involved for favourites who do make sacrifices for greater team good.
If we want a 'Who pleases the supporters most' award we need to get supporters voting on it.
Short memories, some people.
"Let Murphy go, in order to give the kids a go"
Remember what happenned at the start of '19 when Bolton played all the kids in the middle - we got smashed. Teague has even been lambasted as a 1 trick pony, because all he has done is to play Curnow and Murphy on the ball and that is what has turned this around.
Yes, he cant tackle anymore. Yes he butchers the ball more often than he should as a bloke with elite skills. Yes, he has slowed down a touch.
But, he is still best 22. Still provides polish that we sorely lack. His ability to kick a goal out of nothing, or to be a crucial link in a centre clearance that actually leads to something, or to be clean when others are fumbly are what we desperately need.
Yes, throwing all the kids into the middle when they weren't ready has hurt their confidence, hence development. It was the same when we used Weitering the wrong way. His football went way backwards, having supporting doubting him. Fortunately he got back to the point where he should be AA tonight.
But, he is still best 22. Still provides polish that we sorely lack. His ability to kick a goal out of nothing, or to be a crucial link in a centre clearance that actually leads to something, or to be clean when others are fumbly are what we desperately need.
We’re talking about Murphy, right? Marc Murphy? As in, Marc with a ‘c’?