Go for it.... ;D
Go for it.... ;D
Pre game?
Takes a time with the cut and paste. ;)
Zac Williams, free to a good home.
Cowan ...... has to be kept in the seniors, very good.
A remarkable game and a remarkable effort!
Three weeks Greene, you know the rules
Dominated in the middle and overpowered
GWS who got frustrated and Toby Greene helped us out with some old Toby behaviour. Pittonet played a blinder along with TDK showing some forward craft and credit to the defense for holding up despite injuries and some sore bodies.
Cripps and Walsh were the catalysts but two low profile heroes were Cottrell and Boyd who were super effective at opposite ends of the ground.
Impressive win given our injury list and dare I say it that was premiership form..
Boyd, Cotters, Chugga, Cripps, Hewett, Pitto, TDK, Walsh & the twin towers up forward... Take a bow.
As a critic of the 2 ruck thing - googie on face. Tore GWS a new one.
As good as it gets
Obviously our best game for the year.
Need to watch the replay
What a third quarter! Reminiscent of the Premiership Qtr of days gone by.
P Cripps 3 Votes, take a bow Big Boy.
S Walsh 2 Votes, half man half machine.
I really thought they'd outclass and overrun us. Thrilled to be proven wrong.
What a character building win against the injury odds. Our cobbled together defence were outstanding once our mids flexed their muscles. Batman and Robin got the machine purring. George was solid, and the Holland's are on the up.
I was super impressed by our versatility. MK, TDK, to name a couple. Big Pitto had his best game.
Amazing how we got back to our clearance game. It seems we're building quite a repertoire of winning elements in our game. Despite the ridiculous amount of injuries. It was entertaining watching the switches between fwd plays. Initially the smalls were leading and scoring, then the big boys. Makes up so much more unpredictable. Love it.
Big shout out to Boyd when ZW went down and Weiters played sore. He's added another string to his bow and is as tough as they come.
Cottrell: I suggest ppl do go to the footy to watch you.
Superb effort.
I told you so.
What play do you think typified our game today?
TDK front and centre crumb. Snapping truly on his right 🤫
So, in the third term leak aliir was off for a substantial period and that's when we did our damage.
Orazio played his best game in navy. Might not have troubled the stats sheet but his leadership (constant direction and chatter) as well as work rate (particularly during our surge) was good. He's probably first cab out when we get motlop back but don't underestimate his value. He linked up well a couple of times and when we were blazing away he lowered his eyes and hit up targets a couple of times leading to scores. He's not winning games himself but the usual suspects are going to perform when the Indians like Boyd, fantasia, durdin cotters, acres do the basics well and just keep giving the main events of cripps, McKay, curnow, Walsh, etc the impetus to impose themselves without having to worry about the others.
Also big kudos to voss. Gws I think kicked 5 in a row in the second term and they made the call to drop curnow back when our defense was all at sea. He didn't exactly do much but take one steadying mark, but it turned the game into an arm wrestle again and killed thr gws momentum. We scored the next goal and he went forward again. It just basically made them second guess what to do and they lost momentum.
Psychologically this was extremely important particularly as he was having a bit of an off day to that point. A lot of fans around me couldn't work out why he decided to do it, but I thought it's not a bad idea. It also has the effect of opening up our forward line and pushing a ruck forward and letting Charlie have a gallop.
According to coach Kingsley" its hard being Toby"...sometimes I agree he doesnt get calls go his way due to his previous reputation but he was undisciplined tonight and the incident with Boyd showed he had little duty of care imho and there was another I'm sure I saw with Kemp I think it was where he took a swing at him while contesting the ball falling to the ground.
Good to see both Cowan and Newman looking after Boyd too and letting Toby know he wasnt going to get away with his BS....
Hogan struck Young in the jaw as well and that should be looked at too.....credit to Young when Weitering got his corkie and couldnt run it was Young who got the job on Hogan and shut him down and showed some physicality which has been lacking in his game...
Cowan was quick to stand up to Toby when Boyd went down. Tough little blokes, the pair of them.
So, in the third term leak aliir was off for a substantial period and that's when we did our damage.
Orazio played his best game in navy. Might not have troubled the stats sheet but his leadership (constant direction and chatter) as well as work rate (particularly during our surge) was good. He's probably first cab out when we get motlop back but don't underestimate his value. He linked up well a couple of times and when we were blazing away he lowered his eyes and hit up targets a couple of times leading to scores. He's not winning games himself but the usual suspects are going to perform when the Indians like Boyd, fantasia, durdin cotters, acres do the basics well and just keep giving the main events of cripps, McKay, curnow, Walsh, etc the impetus to impose themselves without having to worry about the others.
Also big kudos to voss. Gws I think kicked 5 in a row in the second term and they made the call to drop curnow back when our defense was all at sea. He didn't exactly do much but take one steadying mark, but it turned the game into an arm wrestle again and killed thr gws momentum. We scored the next goal and he went forward again. It just basically made them second guess what to do and they lost momentum.
Psychologically this was extremely important particularly as he was having a bit of an off day to that point. A lot of fans around me couldn't work out why he decided to do it, but I thought it's not a bad idea. It also has the effect of opening up our forward line and pushing a ruck forward and letting Charlie have a gallop.
That 2nd qtr was frustrating. We were getting the same number of shots but they kicked goals while we missed easy shots. They did get their's much easier than they should of though. Half way through the 3rd qtr everything changed. Like falling 20pts behind woke them up. The pressure rating the 2nd half of that 3rd qtr went from 150s during the 2nd qtr to 242, which is brutal.
No-one can say that we don't have depth.
What play do you think typified our game today?
TDK front and centre crumb. Snapping truly on his right 🤫
One play repeated over and over again, the number 9 cracking in with 3 players hanging off him and getting out to number 18 who drove it inside F50.
One play repeated over and over again, the number 9 cracking in with 3 players hanging off him and getting out to number 18 who drove it inside F50.
Poetry in motion
That 2nd qtr was frustrating. We were getting the same number of shots but they kicked goals while we missed easy shots. They did get their's much easier than they should of though. Half way through the 3rd qtr everything changed. Like falling 20pts behind woke them up. The pressure rating the 2nd half of that 3rd qtr went from 150s during the 2nd qtr to 242, which is brutal.
At half time, 50pts of their 58 were scored from TO. I think we tidied that up, the whole midfield group got on top and the rest is history.
Crippa's game one for the ages.
Crippa's game one for the ages.
39 possessions, 7 tackles, 13 clearances! Some
teams don't get 13 clearances in a game!
So, in the third term leak aliir was off for a substantial period and that's when we did our damage.
Orazio played his best game in navy. Might not have troubled the stats sheet but his leadership (constant direction and chatter) as well as work rate (particularly during our surge) was good. He's probably first cab out when we get motlop back but don't underestimate his value. He linked up well a couple of times and when we were blazing away he lowered his eyes and hit up targets a couple of times leading to scores. He's not winning games himself but the usual suspects are going to perform when the Indians like Boyd, fantasia, durdin cotters, acres do the basics well and just keep giving the main events of cripps, McKay, curnow, Walsh, etc the impetus to impose themselves without having to worry about the others.
Also big kudos to voss. Gws I think kicked 5 in a row in the second term and they made the call to drop curnow back when our defense was all at sea. He didn't exactly do much but take one steadying mark, but it turned the game into an arm wrestle again and killed thr gws momentum. We scored the next goal and he went forward again. It just basically made them second guess what to do and they lost momentum.
Psychologically this was extremely important particularly as he was having a bit of an off day to that point. A lot of fans around me couldn't work out why he decided to do it, but I thought it's not a bad idea. It also has the effect of opening up our forward line and pushing a ruck forward and letting Charlie have a gallop.
Astute observations Thry.
I’m not entirely sure that Vossy sent Charlie back. Charlie has explained previously that he now has Silvagni’s role of plugging holes in defence and it’s up to him when that happens.
If the move was Charlie’s initiative, Vossy still deserves credit for giving him the licence and responsibility to do so.
[1] This was one of marc Pittonet's greatest games. He didn't just give his opponents a bath, but he had 7 clearances and 13 contested possessions.
[2] Tom de Koning was excellent, but his best work was up forward with 3 goals. His snap on the right foot was a classic!
I think there is a spot for both of them, especially if we get the ball out of the middle. Very few teams can handle 3 marking options. God knows we struggle.
[3] I don't remember how many tackles we had in the first half, but we were well behind. The tackles pressure lifted enormously just before half time. We still ended up with only 52 to their 68, but ours in the second half were a lot more effective. It made a difference.
[4] We had more than 30 more contested possessions than GWS did. We owned the contested ball after half time. It was lovely to see.
[5] We managed to win with little output from Jacob Weitering, even thought he was quite good early. The other defenders stood up. I liked Cowan's game. Boyd was ordinary early, but stepped up, as was Lewis Young.
Toby Greene had 18 disposals, but kicked only a point or two, and had very little impact on the game. His opponent, on the other hand, had a significant impact.
[6] Ollie Hollands had his best game for the year. Not yet to the form he was in last year, perhaps but he did important things at important times.
Elijah was quieter, but his goals were a good reward.
[7] Cripps was super-human today, but Walsh wasn't far behind. For that matter, Hewett and Kennedy had excellent games.
According to coach Kingsley" its hard being Toby"...sometimes I agree he doesnt get calls go his way due to his previous reputation but he was undisciplined tonight and the incident with Boyd showed he had little duty of care imho and there was another I'm sure I saw with Kemp I think it was where he took a swing at him while contesting the ball falling to the ground.
Good to see both Cowan and Newman looking after Boyd too and letting Toby know he wasnt going to get away with his BS....
Hogan struck Young in the jaw as well and that should be looked at too.....credit to Young when Weitering got his corkie and couldnt run it was Young who got the job on Hogan and shut him down and showed some physicality which has been lacking in his game...
Young showed a nice line of niggle that I haven’t seen before.
I think that he was below his best today and, like all of our defenders, was unsettled when Williams was subbed out. Like his teammates, he did step up when Weiters and Newey were hampered by injury.
Boyd is always the defender I choose to omit but I think I’m going to have to re-think that. His defensive work today was excellent, particularly when he was switched to Greene, and his ball use was typically good.
Greene reminds me of a pit bull - no matter how much the owner says “he’s friendly”, you’re still wary of getting bitten. He’s lucky Boydy got straight up and should only cop a week.
The MRO won’t consider Hogan’s past offences but he should go back to the punch to the jaw that concussed Sam Rowe. Young’s reaction suggested heavier impact than it probably was. I’d give him a week but he’ll probably get a fine.
The move of Curnow back meant that the rest of the backline were able to man up which stopped GWS being able to pick us off as they came forward. Having two rucks means that Cripps and Kennedy can concentrate on being midfielders. TDK gives us a third tall forward which limits the effectiveness of the opposition dropping an extra tall down back on Charlie and Harry. The problem with the way GWS play is that while they have the ball they are good but they do an awful lot of running so when the game turns they can look very tired our backline continues to be destabilised through injury. Could be Cincotta's turn next week. It is clear we have an extra gear that other sides may not have.
I thought we were in trouble in that third quarter but this Carlton side does not appear to give up.
You'll notice in the Voss post match that even the media is still trying to beat up the two rucks bullsh1zen, it even felt like some were barracking for us to be run over to win points in the two rucks debate.
But Voss is the genuine article, he told the media when prompted there isn't such a thing as being "Locked In" to one configuration, at least we know the coach isn't letting the bullsh1zen burn his mindset. It always was and always will be horses for courses, it's the only sane option.
Was at the game. At around the 19.min mark of the 3rd qtr we were 20 points down and were flat as a tack. The Giants were in total control. The rest is history.
How did this happen? Can anyone explain it to me?
With the injuries we have, it was enormous.
There is something cooking and it ain't the same crap as previous false dawns.
This performance reinforces that we are the real deal and if we play anywhere close to our best we will go very close this year.
Our lesser lights are now genuine contributors and our stars and there is now a few of them are match winners. Really believe if we have a decent run injury wise later in the year we may just add another cup in the cabinet at PP.
According to coach Kingsley" its hard being Toby"...sometimes I agree he doesnt get calls go his way due to his previous reputation but he was undisciplined tonight and the incident with Boyd showed he had little duty of care imho and there was another I'm sure I saw with Kemp I think it was where he took a swing at him while contesting the ball falling to the ground.
Good to see both Cowan and Newman looking after Boyd too and letting Toby know he wasnt going to get away with his BS....
Hogan struck Young in the jaw as well and that should be looked at too.....credit to Young when Weitering got his corkie and couldnt run it was Young who got the job on Hogan and shut him down and showed some physicality which has been lacking in his game...
I too was impressed by Young’s physicality
The two rucks worked exactly as the match committee desired today.
Can they repeat consistently ?
That was UNREAL!
CRIPPA 1000 votes!
Gutsy effort by our boys taking all things into consideration - absolutely loved it.
CARNA BLUE BAGGERS !
I too was impressed by Young’s physicality
Me too, credit where credit's due. He really needs to keep working on taking account of his opponent. This aspect was poor early in the game.
I saw tall Durdin in the post match pics on fb, so he hasn't vanished after all.
Don't be under any misapprehensions here, we were horrible in the first half. They applied some serious pressure and we once again fumbled & bumbled. Kicking for goal was atrocious as was the delivery into the forward line, same issues that cost us the game against the Crows.
The fact that Voss had to send Curnow deep into defence late in the second to try and stem the bleeding was a tell-tale sign of howbad we really were.
After half-time, we started to apply the pressure and bit by bit we edged our way back into the contest and as our confidence grew, we started to run all over them.
It was a very good win and one we just had to register after last week's letdown.
Lots of good players for the second half, way too many passengers, frauds & flat-footed onlookers in the first.
Somehow, our guys have to find that ferocious gear from the first bounce instead of halfway through the match.
Must acknowledge that sensational feat of pure athleticism from the Giants defender Aleer who spoilt McKay in a marking contest after an incredible leap that came from nowhere.
Bring on next week please.
By the way, if Corey Durdin wants to be taken seriously as a small forward, then when he is 15-20 metres in the clear and has another 15-20 metres of empty space in front of him, then he just has to kick the goal. FFS, take a bounce, run in a little closer and naikl the screwing thing !!!
His primary role in the team is to kick goals because he won't get too many opportunities to do so and that was an unforgivable miss.
And if Kemp thinks it is acceptable to try the sideshow kick at goal only to hit the point post when there was 2-3 of our forwards well in the clear closer to goal, then he needs one hell of a spray from the coaching staff. I really like the guy but that was immature and a low-percentage play.
Don't be under any misapprehensions here, we were horrible in the first half. They applied some serious pressure and we once again fumbled & bumbled. Kicking for goal was atrocious as was the delivery into the forward line, same issues that cost us the game against the Crows.
The fact that Voss had to send Curnow deep into defence late in the second to try and stem the bleeding was a tell-tale sign of howbad we really were.
After half-time, we started to apply the pressure and bit by bit we edged our way back into the contest and as our confidence grew, we started to run all over them.
It was a very good win and one we just had to register after last week's letdown.
Lots of good players for the second half, way too many passengers, frauds & flat-footed onlookers in the first.
Somehow, our guys have to find that ferocious gear from the first bounce instead of halfway through the match.
Must acknowledge that sensational feat of pure athleticism from the Giants defender Aleer who spoilt McKay in a marking contest after an incredible leap that came from nowhere.
Bring on next week please.
As I posted previously, Charlie has taken over Silvagni's role of helping out in defence from time to time. In other words, Charlie has the licence to decide when he should be an extra in defence. To me, leaving it up to Charlie is great coaching by Vossy and reflects his philosophy of giving the players and assistant coaches responsibility.
We struggled for 15 minutes in the second quarter but controlled the rest of the game quite comfortably.
Our goal kicking did let us down some and could have robbed us of another world record for goals from centre clearances. Even so, we had 12 goal assists, scored from 57% of our inside 50s and kicked goals from 32% of our inside 50s. We had nine individual goal scorers, seven of whom were part of our forward rotations, and five multiple goal scorers. That is pretty impressive in the context of a high pressure game against the flag favourites. The Carlton of midway through last season would have folded after GWS's second quarter run of goals. Once we clawed those two goals back at the end of the second quarter, the result was never really in doubt .
Aleer's spoil was also spectacular in that he hit the ball straight to Cottrell for an easy goal. Athleticism is all well and good, provided you get the footy basics right.
The two rucks worked exactly as the match committee desired today.
Can they repeat consistently ?
As the coach and LP suggested it's a horses for courses approach and we are also short of horses at the minute so we didn't have a lot of options.
Riccardi is a good forward but a lousy ruckman and when Briggs tired our blokes took over. I might have tried Leek Aleer in the ruck if I was Kingsley given he was jumping over tall buildings and likes punching the ball and been a bit more inventive when the game started to slip away.
Don't be under any misapprehensions here, we were horrible in the first half. They applied some serious pressure and we once again fumbled & bumbled. Kicking for goal was atrocious as was the delivery into the forward line, same issues that cost us the game against the Crows.
The fact that Voss had to send Curnow deep into defence late in the second to try and stem the bleeding was a tell-tale sign of howbad we really were.
After half-time, we started to apply the pressure and bit by bit we edged our way back into the contest and as our confidence grew, we started to run all over them.
It was a very good win and one we just had to register after last week's letdown.
Lots of good players for the second half, way too many passengers, frauds & flat-footed onlookers in the first.
Somehow, our guys have to find that ferocious gear from the first bounce instead of halfway through the match.
Must acknowledge that sensational feat of pure athleticism from the Giants defender Aleer who spoilt McKay in a marking contest after an incredible leap that came from nowhere.
Bring on next week please.
Dunno that the whole side was bad in the first half, yes many were bad but they were admirably led by Charlie who had a mare in the first half. Worst half of footy I have seen from him in a long while. Again from my vantage point, the opposition moved it far too easily from the one end of the ground to the other. I commented to my mate and Junior G2C at half time that we haven't been hard to play against this year. We completely reversed that in the second half and we were the ruthless and bold Carlton from last year.
I like GWS, they are a good side and despite Toby having brain fades at time, I'd have him in my side every day of the week and twice on Sundays. BUT their Beveridge clone coach is an utter flog who also has a head you want to punch. He seriously needs some lessons in humility and how to speak respectfully to the media (ie the public). Watch his presser and his carry on over the Greene Boyd incident and tell me if he doesn't make your blood boil.
Dunno that the whole side was bad in the first half, yes many were bad but they were admirably led by Charlie who had a mare in the first half. Worst half of footy I have seen from him in a long while. Again from my vantage point, the opposition moved it far too easily from the one end of the ground to the other. I commented to my mate and Junior G2C at half time that we haven't been hard to play against this year. We completely reversed that in the second half and we were the ruthless and bold Carlton from last year.
I like GWS, they are a good side and despite Toby having brain fades at time, I'd have him in my side every day of the week and twice on Sundays. BUT their Beveridge clone coach is an utter flog who also has a head you want to punch. He seriously needs some lessons in humility and how to speak respectfully to the media (ie the public). Watch his presser and his carry on over the Greene Boyd incident and tell me if he doesn't make your blood boil.
Yep, it was a real sour grapes presser, GWS have some skillful players but several soft ones who don't like it hard and
are way overrated ie Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly etc and Himmelberg enjoys taking big marks over little players but is pathetic against anyone his own size and without Taylor in the team got exposed as the fraud he is imo. Toby is a top player but can't help himself and turns into a undisciplined sook as does Hogan when things don't go their way...
First half skills were bad chasing was bad, pressure was bad, didn't have time with the footy and when we did in the forward line we rushed and kicked points. Backline wasn't cohesive.
As others said, got back in it with pressure and using the footy better. This bred confidence and away we went. Forward half pressure was amazing at times. It was good to be in the crowd.
Did note that all quarters were over 30 mins, without any delays for injuries, blood rule etc.
The two rucks worked exactly as the match committee desired today.
Can they repeat consistently ?
TDK is regularly showing he can take a mark and kick a goal when forward.
Two rucks works PROVIDED one can play forward. We have that hence can work. If do don't then you can't play 2 rucks, ala Gawn and Grundy, as it ends up a liability to the side. You basically play one short.
The two rucks worked exactly as the match committee desired today.
Can they repeat consistently ?
It seems that Crippa is a huge fan of the two rucks structure and had been advocating for Pitto’s recall to address the clearance deficit. While that worked against Adelaide, Pitto and De Koning didn’t contribute enough around the ground to compensate for the loss of run and Harry’s input as second ruck.
Everything clicked yesterday with Pitto and De Koning dominating the hitouts, our mids dominating the clearances, Pitto pitching in around the ground, De Koning kicking goals and forcing GWS to put defensive effort into him, and Harry getting up the ground for telling contested marks.
There’s nothing wrong with playing two rucks, provided that they can do more than take part in ruck contests.
Went back to our brutal contested best in dominating clearances.
Goals from turnover have gone down a little to prop up our one wood.
No problem with two rucks but this team spends its energy in the contest so two rucks makes more sense as they add to the contested brutality. I guess we have two game plans a turnover game and inside game which is good for this group to pull different levers. Adding Cerra and Fogarty.. Doc next year adds to the brutality.
Never would I have imagined the Pitt / TDK ruck combination would've worked let alone worked so well as it did yesterday. Easily Pitto's best game for a while if not EVER. Was like a man possessed. Maybe his position was being questioned? Anyway, not sure if it will be replicated, but I guess we'll find out next week.
Didn't think we were playing badly from the get go but just kept missing shots on goal and the Giants seemed to make every shot. Then the blitz in the 3rd. Just came out of nowhere and it is so exhilarating
Cripps was outstanding. Just inspiring.
Walsh magnificent. Like he's never been injured.
George is having a really, really good year. Thought he was past it early on but he just seems to be motoring.
Kennedy's best game for the year and couldn't have come at a better time
Surprised the soldiers that came in to cover in Cowan and Young did pretty well.
Just cameos all over the place. Cottrell, Durdin, Hollands x 2. Just brilliant.
The boys worked very well. Can we produce the same effort next week as we play the undefeated top team again? I hope so! Glad it's at the G
Pretty much a full team effort across the board....with outstanding contributions from Cripps/Walsh.
The 1 ruck v 2 ruck debate has gone on before and probably will again, but I thought Pittonet was superb today and was okay last week first up too. His contested work yesterday was fantastic and it seemed to allow TDK a bit more freedom when he went on the ball or drifted forward.
Missing Doc, Saad and McGovern down back but the likes of Young and especially Kemp and Cowan stood up. With Saad out for 6 weeks, great opportunity for Cowan now....looks as tough as nails and doesn't shirk the contest.
Charlie frustrates and should've had at least 3 goals at half time and sometimes looks like he needs to work a lot harder....but seems to be able to hit the scoreboard nearly every week. Similarly, Harry was clunking big marks up on the wings, but couldn't hold the ones closer to goal....but turned it around too.
Elijah Hollands looks like he'll be a player for us. Goes in hard and just some untidy disposals let him down yesterday.
Then the unsung blokes like Cotters, Kennedy, Durdin, Owies etc who chipped in with goals and assists.
Really surprised we went in as favourites with the bookies but that's close to the best win under Voss IMO.......missing blokes like Doc, JSOS, Martin, Motlop, Saad, McGovern and Cerra....that's 7 blokes likely in the starting 23....as well as Marchbank and Cunningham. What it shows is that we finally have some depth.
There’s nothing wrong with playing two rucks, provided that they can do more than take part in ruck contests.
A very important proviso but one that seems even more likely if the umpires continue to adjudicate centre ruck contests in the current manner, which allows Pitto to push his opponents around in a way that tended to get him penalized in previous seasons..
Charlie frustrates and should've had at least 3 goals at half time and sometimes looks like he needs to work a lot harder....but seems to be able to hit the scoreboard nearly every week.
Charlie has the athleticism to do much more but he doesn't chase hard after an opponent with the ball anywhere near as hard as he chases a loose ball that he thinks he can possess.
Charlie has the athleticism to do much more but he doesn't chase hard after an opponent with the ball anywhere near as hard as he chases a loose ball that he thinks he can possess.
His partner in crime does though. Big H laid a couple of super tackles / pressure acts that gave us important opportunities.
Charlie has the athleticism to do much more but he doesn't chase hard after an opponent with the ball anywhere near as hard as he chases a loose ball that he thinks he can possess.
Indeed. It is Charlie's biggest weakness and one he needs to address. Fev was the same for a while, but once he got used to using his strength and pace, he got good frees from tackling and chasing.
Me too, credit where credit's due. He really needs to keep working on taking account of his opponent. This aspect was poor early in the game.
That was 2022 Young yesterday.
TDK is regularly showing he can take a mark and kick a goal when forward.
Two rucks works PROVIDED one can play forward. We have that hence can work. If do don't then you can't play 2 rucks, ala Gawn and Grundy, as it ends up a liability to the side. You basically play one short.
Nailed it Jimbo.
This has been my issue in the 2 ruck debate since it started.
Last night TDK morphed from a ruck into a genuine forward option. THAT is what we have been wanting from him. THAT is what Silvagni was offering in the past and why he was my preference.
If TDK can continue to be a genuine option up forward, not just making up the numbers, then it can work. It was ideal conditions for him last night, that is, inside Marvel stadium (no rain, wind) and against an undermanned GWS defence. Hopefully he can still do it in future games, but it wont be as easy.
I was critical last week because Pitto played 50% and TDK 75% game time, meaning a ruck was on the bench for 3/4s of the game.
Last night it was Pitto 68% and TDK 80%, meaning we only had a ruck on the bench for basically 50% of the game. We had an extra quarter of other rotations. Potentially with 2 games under his belt now and TDK blossoming up forward, those numbers may go up again next week....which is all we want. That way it doesn't eat into our other rotations too much. TDK is basically playing Silvagnis role now.
For those commenting about Charlie going back....this is not new. He's been doing it relatively regularly. He was doing it in the finals last year. He's been doing it earlier this year as well.
I can't help but think part of our ability to come back and rally has something to do with our supporter base.
We are by far the loudest crowd going at present and when we get on a role, we really start rocking the stadium. Giants wouldn't have known what hit them. We have a genuine home ground advantage and not just against interstate teams.
So, in the third term leak aliir was off for a substantial period and that's when we did our damage.
Orazio played his best game in navy. Might not have troubled the stats sheet but his leadership (constant direction and chatter) as well as work rate (particularly during our surge) was good. He's probably first cab out when we get motlop back but don't underestimate his value. He linked up well a couple of times and when we were blazing away he lowered his eyes and hit up targets a couple of times leading to scores. He's not winning games himself but the usual suspects are going to perform when the Indians like Boyd, fantasia, durdin cotters, acres do the basics well and just keep giving the main events of cripps, McKay, curnow, Walsh, etc the impetus to impose themselves without having to worry about the others.
Also big kudos to voss. Gws I think kicked 5 in a row in the second term and they made the call to drop curnow back when our defense was all at sea. He didn't exactly do much but take one steadying mark, but it turned the game into an arm wrestle again and killed thr gws momentum. We scored the next goal and he went forward again. It just basically made them second guess what to do and they lost momentum. Curnow made the call himself. I saw him running through the center and signalling to the bench that he was going into the backline. Free rein to do it himself or a planed move. Either way it worked.
Psychologically this was extremely important particularly as he was having a bit of an off day to that point. A lot of fans around me couldn't work out why he decided to do it, but I thought it's not a bad idea. It also has the effect of opening up our forward line and pushing a ruck forward and letting Charlie have a gallop.
TDK is regularly showing he can take a mark and kick a goal when forward.
Two rucks works PROVIDED one can play forward. We have that hence can work. If do don't then you can't play 2 rucks, ala Gawn and Grundy, as it ends up a liability to the side. You basically play one short.
Will play against his brother next week. Could be an interesting week in the De Koning household this week.
I think TDK benefited from Taylor not playing for GWS and affecting how they setup down back.....so I would want to see more evidence than just one game that he is a reliable forward option or just a one hit wonder every now and then.
Curnow made the call himself. I saw him running through the center and signalling to the bench that he was going into the backline. Free rein to do it himself or a planed move. Either way it worked.
Funny you mention that, my nephew got a visit from Pitto at the RCH on Thurs. He reckons they pretty much let Charlie do whatever he likes. Said he is an absolute freak.
Greene and Hogan get a week off for their troubles
Just watched the replay.
Aside from the 2nd q, we were dominant. Albeit very inaccurate with 5 or 6 easy misses.
When Giants kicked 5 goals, we kicked 5pts 😳
I think Toby Greene's let his match in little Boydy. Who'd have thought. Boyd is developing extremely well 👏🏼 If not Boyd, Newy's also done a number on him. A couple of our breaks came on the back of Greene's indiscretions. Not an easy player to have the better of. That’s a win.
Greene and Hogan get a week off for their troubles
Not sure Greene should get a week for that.
Hogan absolutely
Not sure Greene should get a week for that.
Hogan absolutely
Probably a week is about correct, if Toby had soften the impact by pushing Boyd in the chest then it wouldn't be a penalty. But the moment he turned his shoulder into Boyd's head it's only luck that stops it becoming a nasty incident.
btw., Shows just how poor the AFL was on the Maynard, who ended a players career and got away with it!
Hogan's a goose, deserves a week for a pissweak slap.
Coaches votes will be interesting this week.
A note of acknowledgement to a couple of 'lesser lights' right behind the bloody terrific Crippa & Walsh - Chugga and Hewett, ripper effort fellers.
I reckon Kemp is becoming a handy player- makes mistakes and needs to play percentages more but we ask a lot of this kid. Decent size and pace and nous but playing as a "utility" is very hard in today's game
Agree on Hewett - the reason Walsh got so many clearances from the centre bounce (apart from Crippa of course) was the Rolls-Royce service he received from Hewett feeding the ball out.
Game in a nutshell for me - we had 19 tackles in the first half, and were basically playing basketball with them. Ended up on 52 tackles - not a huge increment I know, but it was the way we tackled, with big intent - like when Himmelberg got nailed by our own Harry, ending in a simple goal to Charlie, the effect on the whole GWS team was clear from that point on.
In the first half, the Orange boys were hand- and foot-passing with unpressured precision, but in the second half, you could see the extra heat made them rush what they were doing, and the turnovers started coming.
As has been said many time, when we are the hunters. we can beat anyone.
Charlie has the athleticism to do much more but he doesn't chase hard after an opponent with the ball anywhere near as hard as he chases a loose ball that he thinks he can possess.
Nail ..... head.
I've been on this for some time now.
Extremely critical of his second efforts (which are virtually non-existent), he doesn't bother to pressure the opposition enough if he doesn't get it delivered to him on a platter. It is a serous blight on his game and one that gets overlooked (or a blind eye gets turned) because people prefer to see all of the highlight stuff instead.
IMO, not doing the hard yards like that is disrespecting the other team-mates who regularly do it in other parts of the ground.
If the coaching staf can somehow re-program his thinking so that he chases & tackles more, we will jeep the ball in our D50 for longer which in turn, wil lforce errors from the opposition and more scoring chances for us.
Play(s) of the day:
Just before the end of the second quarter, Kemp gathered the loose ball and handpassed to Walsh. Kemp ran on and received the ball back forward of centre. Kemp could have blazed away and hoped for Harry to mark (Charlie was in the backline) but he spotted Ollie Hollands heading inside 50 on the flank. A perfectly weighted kick allowed Hollands to mark and he slotted the goal.
Back in the middle and a perfect tap from De Koning enabled Hewett to break away and pinpoint a pass to Kennedy. Kennedy kicked the ball to a contest and the ball was spoiled away from Curnow (back from being a loose man in defence). De Koning made it to the contest, crumbed the ball and snapped the goal on his wrong foot.
Those two goals got us back into the game. They also highlight our young, developing talent and the value of our established players like Hewett and Kennedy.
It's worth going to the replay to see how well De Koning and Hewett combine for the centre clearance; excellent ruckwork from De Koning and superb positioning, anticipation and execution from Hewett.
Then there's Tom's ability to get from the centre to the next contest, gather the ball and snap truly. Most ruckmen in that situation would play it safe and drop back into the hole or amble forward in case there's a stoppage.
Well, we can probably put an end to the one ruck/two ruck debate that’s permeated multiple threads over the last year or so, not just in this place but across all Carlton discussion forums.
As it turns out, in the words of Taras Bulba…”We were both right…and we were both wrong!”
There is a time and a place for both options depending on the skills of the players involved.
We recognise the advantages of one ruck in terms of the extra run.
On the weekend we saw the advantages of two rucks.
Will either option work every week?
I doubt it will.
Two rucks may not even work next week.
One thing we can be sure of is, that having seen how Pittonet and TDK operated on the weekend, opposition clubs will devote a bit of time as to how they combat that combination.
Supporters tend to see things in term of how things work in the past and how they are working in the present. A coaching group has a different perspective. For them the past is irrelevant. The present is important because of the need to win, and bank points but they also need to look to the future.
Will a small experiment or sacrifice early in the season generate a greater benefit at the end of the year?
There was some criticism of using Pittonet last week against Adelaide. But in hindsight he was probably handled perfectly. Superhuman freaks (Walsh) may be able to step back into a side without missing a beat, but for the average player after a long lay-off or a late start to the season, it often takes a match or two to get back up to speed. Fifty percent game time for Pittonet in his first game back was probably the ideal re-introduction to the side.
Did it alter the result?
No more than a dozen or so other incidents in that game.
Just to finish….
-Pittonet reckons they’re developing into a good combination with a good understanding. That takes time playing together. It’s useless having one bide his time, learning his trade in DeKoning’s case, in the VFL where their role would probably be different. Game time together is important.
-There’s been a definite improvement in DeKoning’s game and influence…as well as his ruck work. He gave one of the best ‘hit-outs to advantage’ I’ve seen in recent times on the weekend. (it may have been a bit of a fluke.) :D :D
-Pittonet and TDK are very different types of ruckman, and bring different strengths to the game.
-Cripps loves playing to Pittonet. It showed on the weekend.
-The coaches have a much greater knowledge than we do of
a) What they’re trying to achieve long term with the ruck situation.
b) The strengths, weaknesses and fitness levels of each player at any given time.
c) Opposition strengths and weaknesses that are analysed in preparation for the next games
d) How each player complements the other.
e) The balance- what is the cost effect of playing one combination vs the other.
They don’t get paid the big bucks for working out something a footy tragic can deduce by a couple of hours of watching a game.
So, let’s not go week by week depending on results, favouring one option or the other.
Know that both can work.
Trust the experts. They seem to be doing OK with half the side missing.
I don't really get the criticism of Charlie. He has a role to do and he does it really well. We have a plethora of small and medium forwards who are there to apply defensive pressure in our forward line. Charlie's main challenge is to get separation from his opponents.
Jeremy Cameron is being touted as the best player in the game at the moment and he has laid six tackles to Charlie's five. Somehow I don't think Scott or Vossy will be telling Jeremy and Charlie that they're not working hard enough.
Pressure acts:
Fantasia: 17
E. Hollands: 15
Charlie: 12
Owies: 8
Durdin: 5
Harry: 5
Pressure acts:
Fantasia: 17
E. Hollands: 15
Charlie: 12
Owies: 8
Durdin: 5
Harry: 5
I reckon if Fogarty was there he'd be right in the mix.
We have a fair idea of what it is....but I'm interested in getting my 'pressure rating' up so it begs the question.
How is it actually calculated?
But pressure -- one of this sport's most critical elements to master -- is not all about tackles. It's about the act of creating pressure on your opponent by corralling, chasing, closing or applying it physically.
These are the four different levels of pressure Champion Data uses to determine a player's overall 'pressure points' from a game of footy.
Each pressure act is worth a different amount of points -- with physical (such as tackles) worth more than closing, which is worth more than chasing, which is worth more than corralling -- which means a player could record a very high number of pressure acts in one match but won't accrue as many pressure points as a player whose acts were mainly physical or closing.
I just put up the pressure acts stats from the AFL app. Champion data use points.
Pressure acts:
Fantasia: 17
E. Hollands: 15
Charlie: 12
Owies: 8
Durdin: 5
Harry: 5
But Charlie loses interest when he doesn't get the ball ::)
We recognise the advantages of one ruck in terms of the extra run.
On the weekend we saw the advantages of two rucks.
Will either option work every week?
I doubt it will.
Two rucks may not even work next week.
One thing we can be sure of is, that having seen how Pittonet and TDK operated on the weekend, opposition clubs will devote a bit of time as to how they combat that combination.
When we play 2 rucks, Pitto needs to spend most of his time on the ball (especially early in the game) to allow TDK to provide relief when the opposition ruckman tires (especially late in games), which allows for Pitto to be subbed out if there are no injuries.
This means that one of the 3 tall forwards needs to consistently present on the wing (or in the midfield) to provide marking power; create space in the front half; and to run forward without being closely marked. They all have sufficient mobility to perform this role.
When we play 2 rucks, Pitto needs to spend most of his time on the ball (especially early in the game) to allow TDK to provide relief when the opposition ruckman tires (especially late in games), which allows for Pitto to be subbed out if there are no injuries.
This means that one of the 3 tall forwards needs to consistently present on the wing (or in the midfield) to provide marking power; create space in the front half; and to run forward without being closely marked. They all have sufficient mobility to perform this role.
Full agree...the two specialist rucks playing works best with Pitto doing the grunt work early especially vs the opposition meathead type rucks like Briggs and then when they tire TDK can jump all over them later in the game. Harry and Charlie often appear on the wings or even half back to take a mark and drag their opponent up the ground which then leaves the other one alone with his opponent and our two dont lose too many of those contests if we can get the ball down to them quickly.
Full agree...the two specialist rucks playing works best with Pitto doing the grunt work early especially vs the opposition meathead type rucks like Briggs and then when they tire TDK can jump all over them later in the game. Harry and Charlie often appear on the wings or even half back to take a mark and drag their opponent up the ground which then leaves the other one alone with his opponent and our two dont lose too many of those contests if we can get the ball down to them quickly.
Yep, you are both right.
However i'll take issue with 1 point. TDK is no longer a specialist ruck. He can be a genuine forward option now, which was something that had been lacking previously.
He was always capable of taking the odd mark and kicking the odd goal, but he is doing that more consistently now and showing the small forwards how to crumb the ball as well. He's become a much more all-rounded player.
Pitto as #1 ruck plays to his strengths.
TDK as #2 ruck/forward plays to his strengths.
It might be a bit different when we play on a windy/wet deck in the middle of winter, but in ideal conditions of Marvel, it works.
I probably want to see a bit more of TDK forward before I'm sold on him as a forward and how many times it works and we win games. I like it as an option though that the coach can go to depending on the opposition and state of the game to stretch other teams and get an edge .
If both rucks play well (not just taps) they can fit in.
TDK is entering his prime years and Pitt is back to his best after being injured/out of form for a couple of years.
Yep, you are both right.
However i'll take issue with 1 point. TDK is no longer a specialist ruck. He can be a genuine forward option now, which was something that had been lacking previously.
He was always capable of taking the odd mark and kicking the odd goal, but he is doing that more consistently now and showing the small forwards how to crumb the ball as well. He's become a much more all-rounded player.
Pitto as #1 ruck plays to his strengths.
TDK as #2 ruck/forward plays to his strengths.
It might be a bit different when we play on a windy/wet deck in the middle of winter, but in ideal conditions of Marvel, it works.
Yeah, nah; De Koning is a specialist ruck! He attended 60% of the ruck contests against Adelaide but only took part in around one third of the ruck contests against GWS. He doesn't go on to the ball at the end of quarters to give Pitto a break or when the opposition big dog has a spell, he rucks at critical times and wins crucial hitouts (44% to advantage while Pitto managed 36%). How they divide up the ruckwork will depend on conditions, the opposition and the state of the game but we're playing two specialist rucks, one of whom has attributes that make him a potential ruck/forward. De Koning needs to do a lot of work on his forward craft, running patterns and marking if he is going to realise that potential. Importantly, oppositions see that potential and can't afford to leave De Koning without a tall defender when he does "rest" forward. That takes away their ability to double team Harry or Charlie with their third tall defender or ruckman.
The thing is that having De Koning jumping over and/or into the opposition's first ruck makes life easier for Pitto too. Our two gave Briggs a decent going over and I'm sure that Riccardi wished that he was somewhere else when it was his time to spell Briggs.
That was probably De Koning's best game and it was definitely Pitto's best. The challenge is to keep working on the dynamics and getting the best value out of both of them.
I think it is totally dependant on the game plan Vossy wants to implement.
A run and gun game and punish the opposition from turnover
Or a contested tough game and punish the opposition in the inside and dominate clearances
Vossys and list make up DNA is gameplan number 2 so need two rucks that assist with clearances and stoppages. Energy spent in contest and winning celaranes
Gameplan one score from turnover - energy spent on run so two rucks won't cut it need more runners.
Trying to mix the two could end in disaster.
I think it is totally dependant on the game plan Vossy wants to implement.
A run and gun game and punish the opposition from turnover
Or a contested tough game and punish the opposition in the inside and dominate clearances
Vossys and list make up DNA is gameplan number 2 so need two rucks that assist with clearances and stoppages. Energy spent in contest and winning celaranes
Gameplan one score from turnover - energy spent on run so two rucks won't cut it need more runners.
Trying to mix the two could end in disaster.
If my read on game plan is correct, we've won using both plans this year.
That represents the layers Vossy has referred to. Particularly earlier on.
It offers important flexibility when the heat is on. Great coaching 👏🏼
All the debate around 1 ruck or 2, I reckon Pitto answers in this video:
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/1534877/afl-r6-pittonet-post-match?videoId=1534877&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1713643200001
Coaches votes will be interesting this week.
Round 6 votes:
10 - Patrick Cripps (CARL)
8 - Sam Walsh (CARL)
5 - Josh Kelly (GWS)
3 - Tom De Koning (CARL)
3 - Marc Pittonet (CARL)
1 - Matthew Kennedy (CARL)
Big shout out to MK on his memorable 100th
@DJC...
Re rucks.....
Pitto only played 50% game time last week. Up to 70% this week.
They are still easing him back into the game so don't take current ruck numbers from past week (and this week) as 'normal'.
We are still finding our 'normal'.
Pitto had more HTA, but had more contests, so TDK was more effective this week. That is a rarity, but could become more common with Pitto taking more ruck contests.
As people are aware, Pitto grinds down the opponents and TDK benefits by jumping over them. The more Pitto takes, the better TDK will be. Thats why its important for him to find a niche as a forward.
Some ruck stats....
RC->HTA% vs Giants (Reminder this is
'hitouts to advantage / ruck contests attended - or likelyhood of a hitout to advantage from each individual ruck contest)
TDK - 22%
Pitto - 15%
Briggs - 8%
That is elite from both Pitto and TDK. Anything about 11% is about average. Anything 12% and above is in the top half. 15% and above is probably top 3-5.
As a comparison....last week (RC-HTA%)
Pitto - 10%
TDK - 5.5%
Obrien - 20%
2024.....(RC-HTA%)
Pitto - 12.7%
TDK - 11%
2023...
Pitto - 14.7%
TDK - 11.2%
2022....
Pitto - 17.1%
TDK - 11.5%
Some clearance stats....
Pitto was 2nd in clearances this week, 3rd the week before (despite 50% TOG) and is offering plenty after the contest. Elite ranking in centre clearances and above average in total clearances. TDK is listed as below average in this. However, this doesn't take into account how many times they are playing 'as a ruck'. So similar to hitouts to advantage, the following stats are true representations on how effective they are getting a clearance from ruck contests attended.
RC->Clearance%
2024
Pitto - 12.7% - off the charts
TDK - 11% - excellent
202
Pitto - 5%
TDK - 11%
2022
Pitto - 6%
TDK - 5%
So right now, both rucks are playing out of their skins and being elite in the ruck contests and clearances. They are also hitting the scoreboard as well. Both appear fit and full of confidence. Hopefully they can keep up these efforts, including up forward, and i think staying fit is key to this.
We'll see how we against the cats.
I'd only play one ruckman this week. The cats have historically surrendered clearance dominance to win field position.
We'll see how we against the cats.
I'd only play one ruckman this week. The cats have historically surrendered clearance dominance to win field position.
You are correct about Cats game style.
However, that is true once the ball is in play and they can players off the ball.
From 6-6-6 centre bounces, they can't do that. That is where have been most effective. We would win field position early. If we can turn our centre clearances into goals more often than not, they won't have a chance to win field position. Once its around the ground, their setups make that easier to do.
It will be an interesting chess game.
As good as we were last week with both Pitto and TDK, i'm not sure that they can keep that up every week and against the wiley cats will be a bigger test than against the Giants IMO.
But if we win the centre clearance, get a good kick forward, we have the talent to convert and its very hard to stop.
We just need to make sure we hit a target and convert
We'll see how we against the cats.
I'd only play one ruckman this week. The cats have historically surrendered clearance dominance to win field position.
Brisbane vs Geelong is a bit of an anomaly given the torrential rain and the Big O getting subbed out. In that context, Conway got 41 hitouts, Blicavs got 18 and Hawkins chipped in with six. That’s 65 to 35 but the clearances were even at 51 all.
We need to establish a clearance dominance as we did over GWS and that’s not going to happen if we take Geelong’s rucks too lightly. They have Stanley and Neale waiting in the wings and Sam De Koning can take a turn in the ruck.
Another consideration is the absence of Tom Stewart. There’s a case for Stewart being the Cat’s most important player and their defence will be weaker without his intercept marking. Stretching their defence further by “resting” a ruckman in our forward line and making their marking defenders accountable.
Then there’s the idea that, rather than worrying about what the opposition might do well, we just go to work and make them worry about us.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1536660/tortured-wait-the-one-thing-on-blues-mind-after-giant-win?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3fA4nucSeyJF4dKnPDJ2dSX56ziKIL-0fPa5B0WqVFxAICyPsyILuJhgY_aem_AU5QynmePzWEMOSivCfC2fe91GNoAfyK7vZCpWoGYQ4EzeUEYrNDg5fhLTG5GoUlqJ2Cr9F653655GGxJ_92OLWw
Pittonet's 2024 season was somewhat delayed by an ankle injury, but the Blues have opted to play two rucks (Tom De Koning his partner) for the past two weeks, against the strong-bodied Reilly O'Brien and Kieren Briggs.
"It's a great challenge. I feel like teams who want to be competing when it matters need to have big squads," Pittonet said.
"The way we view it is we want to make everything work, I think we get the best out of each other and we work together with the other big boys out there.
"It's more a matter of if we can do what we did (against the Giants) and really maximise it, it becomes a no-brainer from a structural point of view. It's a nice bit of extra pressure to keep it up and make sure we're on the whole way through."
De Koning kicked three goals, a career-high tally, with Pittonet's presence in the ruck allowing him to be a third option in attack alongside Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay.
"Geez he was good, wasn't he? I love it when he plays like that," Pittonet said.
"We've got such good connection, just trying to work together, whether it's who's having a better game against which rucks – there were passages where he was having a good day against Briggs, so he went in, and I went forward for a bit. Same with the second rucks as well.
"Even with those marking contests, being able to release him so he can get a launch at those balls, took some great marks, I think we just make each other better, and the team benefits from first use and getting aerial pressure as well."
It'll be an interesting watch to see if Carlton continues with the dual ruck combination regardless of opponent or uses a horses for courses approach depending on the opposition. Coach Michael Voss said he wasn't locked in on running with two rucks for the rest of the season.
"Their form says a lot as well," Voss said.
"There's a lot of discussion about two rucks – we've got a style of play we want to play, clearly we had the dominance around the ball, certainly from centre square bounce we did. Their games were certainly impactful."
If both rucks play well (not just taps) they can fit in.
Good thing about Pittonet last week is that he played well around the ground too. Works well with TDK playing well up forward.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1536660/tortured-wait-the-one-thing-on-blues-mind-after-giant-win?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3fA4nucSeyJF4dKnPDJ2dSX56ziKIL-0fPa5B0WqVFxAICyPsyILuJhgY_aem_AU5QynmePzWEMOSivCfC2fe91GNoAfyK7vZCpWoGYQ4EzeUEYrNDg5fhLTG5GoUlqJ2Cr9F653655GGxJ_92OLWw
Come on Lods, what would Pitto know? ::)
Just to reiterate the big man's words; "We've got such good connection, just trying to work together, whether it's who's having a better game against which rucks – there were passages where he was having a good day against Briggs, so he went in, and I went forward for a bit."
And that's why De Koning took most of the ruck contests against O'Brien the game before. Not because Pitto was underdone or because of a pre-determined plan but because De Koning was doing better against O'Brien than Pitto was.
Good thing about Pittonet last week is that he played well around the ground too. Works well with TDK playing well up forward.
That's the real key Jim. If both of our ruckmen can have an impact around the ground, it's a winning strategy. If we have to hide them on the pine, we're in trouble.
That's the real key Jim. If both of our ruckmen can have an impact around the ground, it's a winning strategy. If we have to hide them on the pine, we're in trouble.
Which is the whole debate in a nutshell.
Previously, we had to 'hide them'.
Now, we can utilise them.
Turns the whole debate on its head.
I suspect there is a huge difference between real world results and fan expectations or assessments.
Even after last weekend, TDK / Pitto is not "a thing" or "the thing" for every circumstance.
Thankfully Voss agrees!
The best thing about the TDK / Pitto combination last weekend, is that our MC now holds the upper hand. In the absence of injury we can go with Plan A or Plan B and keep opponents guessing, we have two functional options.
To me the issue has always been a case of thinking in the present rather than thinking about what might be achieved.
That could never be done without them at least playing some time together, and developing that combination.
It won't always work, or even be the best option every game.
But if you don't try you never know, and that's not going to happen with one of them stuck in the VFL.
We must not assume ever week will be like last weekend, especially this week.
Do not forget the Handbaggers were the team that complained about TDK last season getting the umpires onside to start penalising TDK in the latter part of the first half of the season. Penalised for basically jumping higher than opponents and as a result putting his knee in their chest. TDK was punished, punished for Scott's actions of basically playing an undone Stanley and an inured Blicavs in the ruck.
Last week Conway is another monster, gave McInerney a touch up, and after the injury to Stewart we saw Scott using Cameron behind the ball as a mobile stoppage option. TDK won't get such an easy or open run if Cameron repeats this strategy.
To me the issue has always been a case of thinking in the present rather than thinking about what might be achieved.
That could never be done without them at least playing some time together, and developing that combination.
It won't always work, or even be the best option every game.
But if you don't try you never know, and that's not going to happen with one of them stuck in the VFL.
Yeah, but you could say that about a million different permutations.
Why dont we try 6 small forwards in the side.
Why don't we try 3 rucks in the side.
Its not through lack of trying that we have got to this point, its been through lack of output.
The output we have got from them last game was very good. The week before, less so. Next week, who knows.
The most promising thing to come out of last week was the ability of TDK to be a genuine forward.
Never kicked 3 goals before.
Never crumbed a goal (AFAIK).
He has always had the potential to do it.....just never put it all together.
Hopefully that was his turning point.
Hopefully next week we do not see the 'old TDK' come back.
I mentioned previously that against injury riddled defensive unit from GWS, inside with ideal conditions at Marvel was the perfect breeding ground for his success.
Outside, in the swirly wind in slippery conditions (which might be this week) may not be so rewarding for him, and the team.
As Harry Hoo would say, "Two Possibilities!"
My only issue was the absolute adamancy that there was only one way, and the closed attitude that the combination would never work, or was always the preferred option.
Hogan gets off. Greene does not.
Hogan gets off. Greene does not.
Astounding.
I’m sure there will be bleating about “tobytax”
We must not assume ever week will be like last weekend, especially this week.
Do not forget the Handbaggers were the team that complained about TDK last season getting the umpires onside to start penalising TDK in the latter part of the first half of the season. Penalised for basically jumping higher than opponents and as a result putting his knee in their chest. TDK was punished, punished for Scott's actions of basically playing an undone Stanley and an inured Blicavs in the ruck.
Last week Conway is another monster, gave McInerney a touch up, and after the injury to Stewart we saw Scott using Cameron behind the ball as a mobile stoppage option. TDK won't get such an easy or open run if Cameron repeats this strategy.
Why then has De Koning's frees against average remained remarkably consistent across his entire career? On the other hand, his frees for average has been steadily climbing.
I have been as mystified as the next punter when it comes to rucklotto frees in past seasons but De Koning wasn't singled out for special treatment by the umpires at Chris Scott's request.
Why then has De Koning's frees against average remained remarkably consistent across his entire career? On the other hand, his frees for average has been steadily climbing.
One or two games of stats won't make a big difference to overall stats, but after a couple of games the umpiring effectively forced TDK into changing his technique when there wasn't anything actually wrong with it. All because of Scott whinging.
We had plenty of debate about this at the time, and the influence of our ruck coaches, surely you remember.
Think we need to cool the jets on the idea we can play 2 rucks most weeks.
Pitto had his best game for the club and contributed around the ground which is out of the box for him as he is generally only effective as a bullocking tap ruckman and does sfa around the game. Last week was the perfect game but its one out of how many?
TDK was ultra effective as a forward and snagged 3 and should have had 4.
My point is both played blinders and the game was on a dry track. Wont work every week and personally i prefer going in with the one tall in TDK.
Ideally I hope last week becomes a regular occurrence as its so difficult for the opposition to play against it but i need to see it as good as last week again and again before im convinced.
Think we need to cool the jets on the idea we can play 2 rucks most weeks.
Pitto had his best game for the club and contributed around the ground which is out of the box for him as he is generally only effective as a bullocking tap ruckman and does sfa around the game. Last week was the perfect game but its one out of how many?
TDK was ultra effective as a forward and snagged 3 and should have had 4.
My point is both played blinders and the game was on a dry track. Wont work every week and personally i prefer going in with the one tall in TDK.
Ideally I hope last week becomes a regular occurrence as its so difficult for the opposition to play against it but i need to see it as good as last week again and again before im convinced.
I think we've probably reached the stage where we aren't necessarily committed to either option (one ruck/ or two)
Voss said as much in his post match conference.
Some weeks we may go with one.
Other weeks we may go with two.
Some weeks either option will work.
Other weeks the opposition may find a way to negate any advantage an option provides
I'm sure the Geelong brains trust will be having a real good look at it this week.
One point that probably needs to be made is that Cripps is a fan of having Pittonet in the side....and it kind of showed.
Another is that if TDK is the sole ruck it will probably reduce any 'forward' effectiveness he may bring.
This has never been a simple argument because there are variables and pluses and minuses all over the place.
I reckon by the end of the season we'll have a much better idea of how things will work.
What we need to see is both our big men fit and healthy for the duration.
We need to plan well for the following....
Blicavs will go to Cripps
Atkins will go to Walsh
If the pussies win those match-ups (or break-even), we are severely hamstrung.
Probably of most concern is the Weitering availability.
We need to plan well for the following....
Blicavs will go to Cripps
Atkins will go to Walsh
If the pussies win those match-ups (or break-even), we are severely hamstrung.
Kennedy and George will do serious damage I'd left unattended.
Geelong have traveled 3 times already this year, played in the rain last week, are very conscious of overloading their aging players (Hawkins rested recently) and have played Saints, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Bullies, North and Brisbane.
Have they REALLY been put to the sword, especially away from their paddock?? A similar situation to GWS last week, they have the wins....but against who?? They are ripe for the picking!!
One or two games of stats won't make a big difference to overall stats, but after a couple of games the umpiring effectively forced TDK into changing his technique when there wasn't anything actually wrong with it. All because of Scott whinging.
We had plenty of debate about this at the time, and the influence of our ruck coaches, surely you remember.
Think back to the Geelong game last season. De Koning hurt Stanley with a fairly crude knee to the ribs. De Koning was slapped with a $3,000 fine and Scott did complain about Stanley's injury in his post game presser. We appealed and Tom was exonerated. In the games following, De Koning's free kicks against were 1, 0, 1, 3, 5, 3, 0 ... The five frees came in the Essendon game where the umpires favoured Essendon with 32 frees to 18. The frees paid against De Koning were all in general play; two for in the back and one for chopping the arms in marking contests, one for high contact and one for holding the man. In fact, it is very clear that the umpires did not adjudicate De Koning's ruck contests any differently than they did before the Geelong game
De Koning's technique may have changed marginally in that he is not so blatant when he targets the opposition rucks. However, it's still the same technique, just more effective than it was.
Chris Scott has nowhere near the influence that you credit him with. On the other hand, I suspect the AFL listens carefully to comments and suggestions from Princes Park.
One point that probably needs to be made is that Cripps is a fan of having Pittonet in the side....and it kind of showed.
Has years of my stats not provided enough evidence of Pittonets elite tap work? You have to wait and hear it from Cripps? :P
Has years of my stats not provided enough evidence of Pittonets elite tap work? You have to wait and hear it from Cripps? :P
I stopped reading after "years of my stats." :P :P ;D ;D
I stopped reading after "years of my stats." :P :P ;D ;D
Better would have been analysis, but ..... sounds about right. :P
ANATOMY OF A FORWARDLINE IN FLOW
It was the six-pack in just over six minutes that won Carlton the game in a seesawing clash with GWS, and a perfect reflection of how the Blues forwardline works when at its best.
While missing Sam Taylor, the Giants had the tall timber to at least keep the Blues in check, with Jack Buckley, Harry Himmelberg and Leek Aleer all in defence.
The six-goal burst – all kicked by the big three Carlton talls – that won the match in the third quarter last week came thanks to separation.
Curnow kicked the first goal, with small Corey Durdin putting in just enough of a lead – a “duel-threat pattern” – to not allow Himmelberg to come over the top, creating room for Curnow to mark over Buckley.
About a minute later, Blues Matt Cottrell and Blake Acres pulled away from the dangerous room in front of McKay, allowing him to lead into open space and a chest mark, while Curnow kept well clear in the goalsquare.
The next goal came after McKay forced a turnover on the wing, with Curnow the deepest forward and with acres of space to use and mark in the goalsquare.
By now, De Koning had moved from the ruck to the forwardline and the Blues had their preferred centre bounce combination of Sam Walsh, Patrick Cripps, Marc Pittonet and George Hewett in the guts.
That quartet won 12 centre bounces and lost just one last weekend, leading to nine inside-50s and five scores.
Walsh ran clear from the bounce and De Koning kept his opponent away for just long enough for McKay to earn a free kick in a one-on-one contest with Himmelberg.
Goal No.5 saw McKay and Curnow again keeping their distance, standing 20m apart inside 50, and Orazio Fantasia could clearly see Curnow in a one-on-one with Buckley.
The kick was a scrubber but Curnow was good enough to pick it up and snap truly on the left as a frustrated Buckley threw his mouthguard to the turf.
Curnow became the highest tall forward for the final goal, leaving McKay and De Koning deep and isolated, with De Koning marking on his chest after a quick rebound from defence.
In six minutes of gametime, the Blues erased a 20-point deficit and now led by 17 thanks to three Curnow goals, two to McKay and one to De Koning.