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Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #45 –
Very well played, Bancroft.  Said enough without being explicit - and was quite funny too.

What on earth are the Journos doing.  If this was an issue it would have come out weeks ago.  Interesting that the Aussies used this against Bairstow when he was batting...

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #46 –
Quote from: LP on
I think he plays it safe, to understand my criticism you have to compare the pressure cooker environment created by captains like Taylor and Ponting.

Ponting is not a great example.
Taylor was a genius.
Ponting didn't create pressure he released it with defensive fields.
Probably found it hard to adjust after he lost McGrath I guess

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #47 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
Ponting is not a great example.
Taylor was a genius.
Ponting didn't create pressure he released it with defensive fields.
Probably found it hard to adjust after he lost McGrath I guess

Yes, as great as batsman as Ponting was he certainly struggled with the captaincy. That showed up after we started to lose the champions players. Ian Chappell, Taylor and Clarke were the best 3 I come across, closely followed by Border, who took a while to grow into the role but when he did he was very good.

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #48 –
I think Border, Ponting, Hughes and Yallop were under-rated, and I think Clarke, Waugh, Gilchrist and Greg Chappell were over-rated, but they are all clearly better than Smith.

In fairness it's hard to get a clear handle on Waugh, Ponting and Gilchrist, because if not for his issues and feck-ups Warne would clearly have been captain from a pure cricketing perspective.

It's too easy to judge captaincy based on individual performance, Waugh, Gilchrist and Smith are examples of the positive influence great individual performances have on the assessment of their captaincy. While Yallop and Hughes are perfect examples of how bad individual form can cruel your reputation, not matter what sort of cake you make form the crap around you!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #49 –
Quote from: LP on
I think Border, Ponting, Hughes and Yallop were under-rated, and I think Clarke, Waugh, Gilchrist and Greg Chappell were over-rated, but they are all clearly better than Smith.

In fairness it's hard to get a clear handle on Waugh, Ponting and Gilchrist, because if not for his issues and feck-ups Warne would clearly have been captain from a pure cricketing perspective.

It's too easy to judge captaincy based on individual performance, Waugh, Gilchrist and Smith are examples of the positive influence great individual performances have on the assessment of their captaincy. While Yallop and Hughes are perfect examples of how bad individual form can cruel your reputation, not matter what sort of cake you make form the crap around you!

Ponting, Hughes and Yallop a better captain than Smith? Are you kidding? They we awful. Smith's a solid captain, not poor but not going to be one of the great ones either. Better than those 3 though.

Waugh was never a great on-field captain, always too rigid and narrow in his thinking and could never think outside the box. His fault we lost in India in a series that should've been well won in 2001. Captained the greatest team we had and did lead by example and really was able to get the players behind him.

Gilchrist only filled-in as captain but won the series in India in 2004 in Ponting absence.

Clarke was a great captain. Given a very ordinary team well down the rankings but got them back to world no.1 eventually. Very smart on-field.


Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #50 –
Quote from: laj on
Waugh Smith was never a great on-field captain, always too rigid and narrow in his thinking and could never think outside the box.

Change Waugh to Smith and you've nailed it! ;)

The current contrast between Smith and Root is there for all to see, if Joe Root had the Australian bowling line up to captain we'd be in all sorts of sh1te!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #51 –
Stokes at the airport but bound for a holiday in NZ...just close enough to fly in as a messiah when England go 2-0...

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #53 –
Quote from: bratblue on
The boy's will be drooling for the second  sledging opportunity. :)

Stokes is one Pom who seems to fire up when the heat is on....had to be impressed in past series when Johnson was bowling well and a young Stokes stood up
to him.  A lot of players mentally disintegrate but Stokes is more the type who wants to punch on....pardon the pun.
Broad is another who seems to be able to handle everything thrown at him and still perform...
I'd be targeting Root, Anderson and Bairstow....Anderson looks like he over the tour already and wouldnt need much encouraging to go home...
Root is a young bloke and like Cook given the captains job very early in their career...its finished Cook and I reckon Root is on slow simmer to break as well....

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #54 –
Quote from: laj on
Ponting, Hughes and Yallop a better captain than Smith? Are you kidding? They we awful.

Seriously?......Ponting single handidly regrouped a World Cup side that lost their star bowler (Warne) on the eve of the 2003 World Cup due to an act of stupidity & got them to a World Cup victory.  He also took them to wins against the strongest side in the world (SAF) in their own country in the era right after losing Warne, Magrath, Langer, Haydon from the side, with a bowling attack of Johnson, Siddle & Hilfy......He wasn't Mark Taylor, but he was certainly better than Smith, and probably equal to Waugh (who never had any challenges really).
Life is pain....... anyone who says differently is selling something.

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #55 –
Quote from: malo on
Seriously?......Ponting single handidly regrouped a World Cup side that lost their star bowler (Warne) on the eve of the 2003 World Cup due to an act of stupidity & got them to a World Cup victory.  He also took them to wins against the strongest side in the world (SAF) in their own country in the era right after losing Warne, Magrath, Langer, Haydon from the side, with a bowling attack of Johnson, Siddle & Hilfy......He wasn't Mark Taylor, but he was certainly better than Smith, and probably equal to Waugh (who never had any challenges really).

I'd agree with that.

Smith is a hopeless Captain, worst that I can remember.

Leading by example is great, but there must be more....

That said, at the time of his appointment there weren't many other options!
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #56 –
Quote from: malo on
Seriously?......Ponting single handidly regrouped a World Cup side that lost their star bowler (Warne) on the eve of the 2003 World Cup due to an act of stupidity & got them to a World Cup victory.  He also took them to wins against the strongest side in the world (SAF) in their own country in the era right after losing Warne, Magrath, Langer, Haydon from the side, with a bowling attack of Johnson, Siddle & Hilfy......He wasn't Mark Taylor, but he was certainly better than Smith, and probably equal to Waugh (who never had any challenges really).

I reckon Ponting is a long way ahead of Smith.  The latter doesn't seem able to think on his feet and has a formulaic approach to captaincy.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #57 –
Quote from: DJC on
I reckon Ponting is a long way ahead of Smith.  The latter doesn't seem able to think on his feet and has a formulaic approach to captaincy.

We are on the same page.

When I watch Smith I get the feeling that Lehmann is captain and Smith is working off his notes, which he left in the locker room and cannot remember!

Things change after a drinks break, lunch or tea, but in between it's like watching a parrot speak and repeat the same slight mispronunciation over and over again. Things just aren't quite right and the tweak often comes too late, after everybody has walked away!
The Force Awakens!

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #58 –
Quote from: DJC on
I reckon Ponting is a long way ahead of Smith.  The latter doesn't seem able to think on his feet and has a formulaic approach to captaincy.

Can't go with you there. Ponting captaincy was plain awful at times. Used to just shake my head at times. He's lucky to be ahead of anyone other than Hughes and Yallop. We saw the difference soon as Clarke became captain. Smith at least seems solid tactically although not in the class of Taylor and Clarke, but certainly well ahead of Ponting.

Re: The Brisbane Test

Reply #59 –
Captaincy is difficult to quantify, and pointing to results simply ignores too much to do with it.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson