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2011 to 2015 comparisons

Quote from: deags on
I agree that our boys melt whenever challenged. That was evident under Ratten and still continues to this day under Malthouse. However I see the workrate thing as a separate issue. And both I think are related more to on-field leadership than off.

Really, we melted under Ratten, are you sure? :o

As I recall we made the 2011 SF only to lose by 3 points in a Perth SF against West Coast. No doubt we were inconsistent, but melting, hardly!

Furthermore, we had the odds against us in that game with some heavily "influenced" umpiring going down! The ideal circumstances for a meltdown team to meltdown, but we came back!

It appears back then we were a hell of a lot closer to success than we are now! ;)

And all that with a list that was apparently NFG and perhaps even inexperienced at the time! :o

The Force Awakens!

Re: more

Reply #1 –
The good old back in 2011 when we nearly won the flag without beating a top team argument lol.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

2011 to 2015

Reply #2 –
I don't really see the point of arguing over how badly we have failed over the past 20  years and Whois most to blame. We are better off spending our energies on finding the winning formula for the future?
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #3 –
It is a bit pointless.
I guess there's one way to stop the "looking back comparisons"

It's simple really
Start winning football games!

You watch how quickly the past is forgotten with a top 4 finish.
That's all it needs...to go better than we have in the past dozen years.

We'll win this week.
They'll under-rate us ;)

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #4 –
Quote from: LP on
It appears back then we were a hell of a lot closer to success than we are now! ;)

That statement scares me because it's so spot on. Malthouse has taken this team backwards at a rate of knots and there's no relief in sight!
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #5 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
I don't really see the point of arguing over how badly we have failed over the past 20  years and Whois most to blame. We are better off spending our energies on finding the winning formula for the future?

That's what happens when people want to pretend we had a bottom 4 side with no improvement left in it :P 

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #6 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
That statement scares me because it's so spot on. Malthouse has taken this team backwards at a rate of knots and there's no relief in sight!

The slide started in 2012 but you just keep pretending 2012 never happened.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #7 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
It is work rate thing, the top sides run harder and further than us.

Have you got the GPS data?
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #8 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
The slide started in 2012 but you just keep pretending 2012 never happened.

Just like you keep pretending the injuries didn't happen.

The players that have left the club since then that still had plenty to give are what has cost us. Not to mention an archaic gameplan and a coach that's past his best.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #9 –
Quote from: LP on
Really, we melted under Ratten, are you sure? :o

As I recall we made the 2011 SF only to lose by 3 points in a Perth SF against West Coast. No doubt we were inconsistent, but melting, hardly!

Furthermore, we had the odds against us in that game with some heavily "influenced" umpiring going down! The ideal circumstances for a meltdown team to meltdown, but we came back!

It appears back then we were a hell of a lot closer to success than we are now! ;)

And all that with a list that was apparently NFG and perhaps even inexperienced at the time! :o

Back in the glory days huh, when a premiership was within our grasp, and we would have gotten away with it to if it wasn't for those pesky umpires.
No doubt our results back then were better.

Fair dinkum, there are a couple of guys on this forum with such hatred of Malthouse that they cling on to anything that remotely reminds them of just how good we had it under Ratten. Please don't let what is happening now blind you to the fact that we were not all that great in those days either. We had better results, but we were far from premiership material. Closer then than now, maybe, but that is a bit like saying Brussel sprouts are delicious... In comparison to durian. 

We were lazy then, just as we are lazy now. The same thing we needed back then is the same thing we need now, on field leadership, and a dose of good old fashioned hard work. I dont give a flying feck who coaches the side, without an increase in work rate we will still be screwed.

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #10 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
That's what happens when people want to pretend we had a bottom 4 side with no improvement left in it :P

That would have been important if we'd have had enough improvement left in us to have won the flag but we somehow blew it. I have no illusions - we have not been anywhere close to a flag for years - not even within sniffing distance. We should be focused on how to win the next one - as Lods points out, a few wins would transform the landscape.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #11 –
Quote from: deags on
We were lazy then, just as we are lazy now. The same thing we needed back then is the same thing we need now, on field leadership, and a dose of good old fashioned hard work. I dont give a flying feck who coaches the side, without an increase in work rate we will still be screwed.

Your assertion that when the heat was on we folded in some way, consistently through the Ratten era and still so in the Malthouse era, is incorrect.

The concept of a meltdown imply some collapse under pressure, but in the recent past the hottest games we played in for the last few seasons were the two away finals in 2010 or 2011. There was no sign of capitulation, in fact the exact opposite, we almost made it across the line against adversity! :o

In both we were given zero chance by the pundits, yet we lost two interstate SF by a grand total of 8 points.

Back then the club was miles ahead of it's current position, we are probably more consistent now, but are we consistently better or worse compared to 2010 or 2011?

The problem back in the Ratten period was consistency not a lack of endeavour, I would assert the lack of ability for players like TBird and Russell to take on the game plan cost the club as much as anything else! Many have still not forgiven Ratten for ending TBird's Carlton career, but end it he did and the decision is justified given TBird could not get a game surrounded by beginners! Even Russell managed to get a game at the hardened Collingwood outfit, which seems somewhat ironic for Tbird! :o

Now as a group we look lost, last Thuirsday at "The G", despite seeming to match or outnumber Nthmond fans, Carlton people looked full of dread. Like they were attending a funeral not an AFL game! I don't recall ever feeling that way in the Ratten era. In the Ratten era the game plan was a Rollercoaster, not a wake!

Finally, as I have posted many times, this is not about the coach. I think Malthouse is a great coach who slowly languishes and withers under a faulty game plan! The current game plan is not effective on 2015, and it's hard to imagine some players on the list wouldn't think the same!
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #12 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Just like you keep pretending the injuries didn't happen.

The players that have left the club since then that still had plenty to give are what has cost us. Not to mention an archaic gameplan and a coach that's past his best.

Injuries happen to all teams, they happened to us last year and the year before, they happened in the great 2011 that you guys keep crapping on about, they happened to the Hawks last year on the back of losing Buddy and they won the flag. You just have to deal with it. The truth is 2011 was our pinnacle with that group and we finished 5th, if we kept Fevola we may have won it.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #13 –
Quote from: LP on
The concept of a meltdown imply some collapse under pressure, but in the recent past the hottest games we played in for the last few seasons were the two away finals in 2010 or 2011. There was no sign of capitulation, in fact the exact opposite, we almost made it across the line against adversity! :o

In both we were given zero chance by the pundits, yet we lost two interstate SF by a grand total of 8 points.

What happened to the sides that beat us the following week? They got flogged because they were no where near it and neither were we.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: 2011 to 2015

Reply #14 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
That would have been important if we'd have had enough improvement left in us to have won the flag but we somehow blew it. I have no illusions - we have not been anywhere close to a flag for years - not even within sniffing distance. We should be focused on how to win the next one - as Lods points out, a few wins would transform the landscape.

Indeed, we should have been taking steps towards a flag not away from it. The fact we were apparently so far away and we've only moved further away should be the concern.