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Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #30 –
@Nath
Surely the Capt. is the coaches on-field rep who ensures that the team does as the coach wants and follows his orders, as well as having off-field duties as the public face of the team etc.?

The remaining members of the leadership group I thought also had some on-field duties like marshalling the defence in line with team instructions, as well as off-field duties regarding culture etc.

Sure, every player is expected to show leadership but surely the role of the leadership group is to set the examples for this and to pick up the slack when it happens?

Basic principle - without leadership you have a rabble and not everyone will be a good leader. Some will be a lot better than others.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #31 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
@Nath
Surely the Capt. is the coaches on-field rep who ensures that the team does as the coach wants and follows his orders, as well as having off-field duties as the public face of the team etc.?

You'd think so, but the coaches orders change all throughout a game, so realistically the Captain is just out there playing football waiting for the coach to tell him to do something different, just like every other player on the field.
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The remaining members of the leadership group I thought also had some on-field duties like marshalling the defence in line with team instructions, as well as off-field duties regarding culture etc.

However did our backline manage to function in 2013 then? It had no member of the leadership group other than Nick Duigan, who hardly played. Nope, they were all expected to manage things themselves and multiple people showed leadership in any given game.
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Sure, every player is expected to show leadership but surely the role of the leadership group is to set the examples for this and to pick up the slack when it happens?

I think you'll find that anyone in the best 22 who doesn't do this too often will find themselves no longer in the best 22 quite quickly. Whether they're in the leadership group or not.
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Basic principle - without leadership you have a rabble and not everyone will be a good leader. Some will be a lot better than others.

Fair enough, but it still doesn't change the fact that the players are responsible for playing the game and the coach is responsible for managing the players.

I think most posters here are confusing showing 'leadership' with being 'inspirational'.

Our leadership group isn't responsible for managing squat, they're ideally the most inspiring players you have on your team because that inspiration should fire the rest of the players up.

Whether an inspirational player is in the leadership group or not has no relevance on whether they are inspirational, though. Just ask Chris Judd.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #32 –
Nath, part of a true leader's makeup is to be inspirational. If you are not inspirational you are not a true leader.

I think you are confusing leaders with managers.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #33 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Nath, part of a true leader's makeup is to be inspirational. If you are not inspirational you are not a true leader.

I think you are confusing leaders with managers.

I'm not confusing leaders with managers, my whole point was to explain that our players aren't responsible for managing a single thing so why do you even need a leadership group?

See my example of Chris Judd. He is inspirational in everything he does but is no longer a part of our leadership group. Why do you think that is? I'd suggest its because Chris Judd knows that he can be inspirational without having to have any sort of title and that the title itself is only there to pump up the tyres of the player with said title.

In a purely football sense, if a player can only be inspirational if they're given a title, then they're not really inspirational and don't deserve the title anyway.

So what is the point of it at all?
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #34 –
@Nath

A leadership group serves as a focal point for players - a clearly identified group they can look to, especially in times of crisis, to help individuals or the whole team face whatever challenge that may be presenting itself. Sure, others outside of that group may have leadership qualities and may well be able to fend for themselves so to speak - Juddy as you say is pretty self-contained and can inspire himself.

But, even in AFL footy teams, each and every  members of a group definitely would not have strong leadership qualities even if they know their individual role well and are normally good at doing it. Some need that extra bit of inspiration in times of duress, provided in a way that the club wants, from a group who the club thinks is best equipped to provide it. Not all people are comfortable with a leadership role and I certainly think Juddy is one who prefers to just get on with it.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #35 –
Leadership is a lot more than leading the 22 that run out onto the ground for 120min each week.
It's about leading, teaching, encouraging, rebuking and disciplining a group of 44 for every minute that the players are at the club (along with the coaches of course!). Training, eating, meetings, weight sessions, recovery, you name it.

Personally I would go with a 6 man leadership group. 2 forwards, 2 mids, 2 defenders. Pick a captain and VC from this group.

If you understand that MOST of these guys responsibilities happen away from game day, it makes a lot more sense why people like Duigan can (and should) be a part of the group !!!!
Mens sana in corpore sano - A healthy mind in a healthy body.

Navy, it's not just a color, it's an attitude !!!

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #36 –
Quote from: nathbear on
Quote from: cookie2 on
Nath, part of a true leader's makeup is to be inspirational. If you are not inspirational you are not a true leader.

I think you are confusing leaders with managers.

I'm not confusing leaders with managers, my whole point was to explain that our players aren't responsible for managing a single thing so why do you even need a leadership group?

See my example of Chris Judd. He is inspirational in everything he does but is no longer a part of our leadership group. Why do you think that is? I'd suggest its because Chris Judd knows that he can be inspirational without having to have any sort of title and that the title itself is only there to pump up the tyres of the player with said title.

In a purely football sense, if a player can only be inspirational if they're given a title, then they're not really inspirational and don't deserve the title anyway.

So what is the point of it at all?


Judd stated that his reason for not wanting to continue to be captain was that he didn't want to be dealing with what players did off field.

He was happy to perform the on field duties and used the example of what happened with Robinson off season as something he didn't think he needed to be dealing with as captain.

This has been the big change in leadership at football clubs in recent years, past captains weren't responsible for disciplining team mates for their off field behaviours, that was the domain of coaches and other officials.

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #37 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Nath, part of a true leader's makeup is to be inspirational. If you are not inspirational you are not a true leader.

I think you are confusing leaders with managers.

Bullseye, Fluffy Biscuit the 2nd.

Inspiration is a big part of true leadership. Especially the ability to inspire the best from folk in a common direction toward a common goal.

To manipulate the William Arthur Ward quote a little... "The mediocre leader tells. The good leader explains. The very good leader demonstrates. The true leader inspires.

And I've always loved this one from Peter Drucker...  "Leadership is lifting a person’s vision to high sights, the raising of a person’s performance to a higher standard, the building of a personality beyond its normal limitations."
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #38 –
A football team is a peer system, not a business or administrative entity. Discussing it from a management perspective is not irrelevant.

Better examples are groups where management was totally absent or went missing.

For example The Aints, negative leadership group. Think Lord of the Flys or Clockwork Orange. Anarchy, destruction and isolation.

Geelong, a positive leadership group. Think Gallipoli or The Rats of Tobruk. Inclusive, unifying and harmonious.
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #39 –
Either way, we're not going to abandon the leadership group in favour of just a captain and second in charge.

So who should be in it? Our current crop is:

Murphy
Simpson
Waite
Carrazzo
Duigan

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #40 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Either way, we're not going to abandon the leadership group in favour of just a captain and second in charge.

So who should be in it? Our current crop is:

Murphy
Simpson
Waite
Carrazzo
Duigan

Murphy, Simpson & Carrazzo get a yes, Duigan & Waite get a no.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: 2014 Leadership Group

Reply #41 –
Quote from: TheSheik on
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
Either way, we're not going to abandon the leadership group in favour of just a captain and second in charge.

So who should be in it? Our current crop is:

Murphy
Simpson
Waite
Carrazzo
Duigan

Murphy, Simpson & Carrazzo get a yes, Duigan & Waite get a no.

Agree. Add in Hendo. No need for anymore.
Why did the Carlton FC fall? So they could learn to pick themselves up.