I don't know that I want to consider our next game yet, but I guess we have to. Hiding from it will not make it better.
We will need to have some changes, as a few guys really failed to fire last night. Dennis is particular must be under pressure on that effort.
Tidy up the disposal efficiency (see less turnovers) and we'll be more competitive.
It's a simple game that our players frequently make more difficult.
I saw an incident on the wing where Armfield had the chance to go after a loose ball and instead of hunting the footy he played for a free kick as he was being impeded.
Cut that crap out and go get the footy, and we'll do better.
Tidy up the disposal efficiency (see less turnovers) and we'll be more competitive.
That's akin to saying that if only I could run faster I could beat Usain Bolt Thry.
Disposal efficiency is one of the key things that separates the wheat from the chaff among AFL footballers, the sad fact is that we currently have more chaff than wheat.
That's akin to saying that if only I could run faster I could beat Usain Bolt Thry.
Disposal efficiency is one of the key things that separates the wheat from the chaff among AFL footballers, the sad fact is that we currently have more chaff than wheat.
I think it's mostly in their heads.....
Agree that Army, White and Thomas must be dropped.
A few changes for next week. Get Harry McKay in...I mean if we're going to lose games anyway, why not get some experience into the players even if they're not quite there yet. Same rule applies for Zac Fisher and David Cuningham. Also you could bring in a half eaten sandwich and it would be more effective than Dale Thomas was last night.
OUT:
Thomas
White
Armfield
Casboult
IN:
Cuningham
McKay
Fisher
Palmer
Hope we dont panic, drop the kids and go back to the tried and failed...the new kids actually did ok and had their moments and need to be persisted with.....
Charlie C wasnt great but is the future and I like his big frame in the team, looked a bit lethargic but moved better as the game went on and I think he needs some match conditioning. I'd probably like some cover for Weitering down forward who looked a bit banged up and I dont want him flogged trying to patch holes everywhere, if it means playing Jones or Jaksch to give the kid a spell during the game then so be it. I'd like to to see HarryMac in the team but dont want to rush him in either as he needs more time in the NB's to ripen up...
At training when there is little pressure most of our guys would be deadly accurate with their hand and foot passing.
It's not that they lack the skill it's more that skills and decision making go to pieces when they are rushed to perform these tasks under match conditions.
Greater support and more pressure from our side and we might find that players with a little more time can execute more effectively....there will always be a couple who don't and these are the ones we need to replace sooner rather than later.
At training when there is little pressure most of our guys would be deadly accurate with their hand and foot passing.
It's not that they lack the skill it's more that skills and decision making go to pieces when they are rushed to perform these tasks under match conditions.
Greater support and more pressure from our side and we might find that players with a little more time can execute more effectively....there will always be a couple who don't and these are the ones we need to replace sooner rather than later.
I remember Andrew Walker saying exactly the same a couple of seasons back.
Those 1%ers really make a difference : blocks, shepherds etc., all have the potential to buy the ball carrier an extra second or two, which can help significantly. As do running patterns, leading patterns, separation from your opponent etc. all give the ball carrier time and choice to execute better.
Hope we dont panic, drop the kids and go back to the tried and failed...the new kids actually did ok and had their moments and need to be persisted with.....
Agree completely. Regardless of results I just want to see kids being developed inside the cauldron.
The only change I'd make is Thomas out, I don't care who comes in.
Armfield on thin ice, hope he just needed the run and shows more next week.
White and Casboult both play.
There was a goal kicked by Rich at the city end last night from a boundary throw in during the first qtr. From memory, and I was at the opposite end of the ground, the Rich ruckman took it easily, after Cas stumbled cluelessly towards the boundary line, and either snapped the goal or hacked it fwd and someone else snapped it. It was an example of how poor Cas's ruck craft is and how little he imposes himself physically on a contest. If he cant ruck, cant impose himself physically and cant kick straight, his days are well and truly numbered. Whilst Phillips is injured, we don't have much choice and Gorringe is as soft as butter IMO. Its a problem area that I dont think we can rectify in the immediate future.
Hope we dont panic, drop the kids and go back to the tried and failed...the new kids actually did ok and had their moments and need to be persisted with.....
Charlie C wasnt great but is the future and I like his big frame in the team, looked a bit lethargic but moved better as the game went on and I think he needs some match conditioning. I'd probably like some cover for Weitering down forward who looked a bit banged up and I dont want him flogged trying to patch holes everywhere, if it means playing Jones or Jaksch to give the kid a spell during the game then so be it. I'd like to to see HarryMac in the team but dont want to rush him in either as he needs more time in the NB's to ripen up...
.
Agree, we absolutely MUST persevere with the young talent.
There was a goal kicked by Rich at the city end last night from a boundary throw in during the first qtr. From memory, and I was at the opposite end of the ground, the Rich ruckman took it easily, after Cas stumbled cluelessly towards the boundary line, and either snapped the goal or hacked it fwd and someone else snapped it. It was an example of how poor Cas's ruck craft is and how little he imposes himself physically on a contest. If he cant ruck, cant impose himself physically and cant kick straight, his days are well and truly numbered. Whilst Phillips is injured, we don't have much choice and Gorringe is as soft as butter IMO. Its a problem area that I dont think we can rectify in the immediate future.
Actually thought it was one thing Casboult did well last night was ruck. That area is much improved. It was his lack of impact around the ground, especially in the first half was the issue.
Casboult was interesting last night. His first half was appalling, and yes that was Nankervis who nudged him away and took the ball and snapped a goal against him. But after half time it was like he woke up, got a bit of confidence after kicking a goal, and was better in both ruck and general play. I'm hoping he needed the run and will be better next week, we really need him to have his best year
Actually thought it was one thing Casboult did well last night was ruck. That area is much improved. It was his lack of impact around the ground, especially in the first half was the issue.
Nankervis is not really a useful measure, next week will be the real tell assuming Gawn plays.
How far away is Phillips? Kreuzer was good as a forward last night, 2 goals is a good return
There was a goal kicked by Rich at the city end last night from a boundary throw in during the first qtr. From memory, and I was at the opposite end of the ground, the Rich ruckman took it easily, after Cas stumbled cluelessly towards the boundary line, and either snapped the goal or hacked it fwd and someone else snapped it. It was an example of how poor Cas's ruck craft is and how little he imposes himself physically on a contest. If he cant ruck, cant impose himself physically and cant kick straight, his days are well and truly numbered. Whilst Phillips is injured, we don't have much choice and Gorringe is as soft as butter IMO. Its a problem area that I dont think we can rectify in the immediate future.
I never saw a replay, but on first viewing it looked like it should've been a free given to casboult for a push.
There were many examples of his ruckwork being sub-par however...and he got beaten by a 'nobody'.
FWIW, i said in another thread, drop Casboult, put Rowe in his role of forward/2nd ruck.
Plowman and Marchbank can cope down back, have White as help. Keep Weitering forward.
How far away is Phillips? Kreuzer was good as a forward last night, 2 goals is a good return
Tend to agree with my old mate Jim on Kruezer that he does his best work when he is the lone specialist ruckman rather than equally sharing the load.
I like Philips and reckon he gave us value last season but its hard fitting him in when Kruezer is going so well...Casboults rucking was ok vs the Tigers IMO and in some ways
it helps bring him into the game when he is a bit rusty and having a run on the ball often benefits his marking and general play.
I suspect we'll see a much better showing from our blokes on Sunday next against the ...'Go Dees' (said with a posh lisp from a bloke wearing a Range Rover bow tie).
McKay, Palmer, Kerridge, Lamb and Graham would be in line for promotion but, looking back on last year we are loathe to make wholesale changes so I would anticipate 2, max. Should be interesting.
I suspect we'll see a much better showing from our blokes on Sunday next against the ...'Go Dees' (said with a posh lisp from a bloke wearing a Range Rover bow tie).
McKay, Palmer, Kerridge, Lamb and Graham would be in line for promotion but, looking back on last year we are loathe to make wholesale changes so I would anticipate 2, max. Should be interesting.
Dees are strong in the midfield and have a good ruck in Gawn, reckon Kerridge and Palmer might get a game this week.....hope somebody connects with Viney hard...most teams have one annoying player and with Melbourne its Viney. Always trying to pull players of his teammates or push opposing players around....Libba does same for the Dogs....
Don't care who comes in, won't make much difference, as long as Thomas goes out
Don't care who comes in, won't make much difference, as long as Thomas goes out
Not sure we will ever see a $750k a year player don a NB's jumper.....reckon if Thomas gets dropped it will be under the guise of injury...
Hopefully career-ending
Hopefully career-ending
Really?
Hopefully career-ending
We don't need rubbish comments like that!
We don't need rubbish comments like that!
It only proves my point that a lot our supporters can't accept him as a Carlton player. It's not like he's weak or lazy, he goes in hard but his body is just shot.
It only proves my point that a lot our supporters can't accept him as a Carlton player. It's not like he's weak or lazy, he goes in hard but his body is just shot.
In respect of last night, there would be five or six ahead of him getting the chop if the decision is based on performance.
In respect of last night, there would be five or six ahead of him getting the chop if the decision is based on performance.
Last night even some of our better players did stupid things . I loved Marchbank's game and how he goes about it but he made some critical errors. Murphy played his best game in 2 years but he would rather handball to a team mate under pressure than absorb it himself like the elite players do. Simpson made some costly turnovers.
Last night even some of our better players did stupid things . I loved Marchbank's game and how he goes about it but he made some critical errors. Murphy played his best game in 2 years but he would rather handball to a team mate under pressure than absorb it himself like the elite players do. Simpson made some costly turnovers.
When Thomas got wrongly pinged for the throw I was in the bar getting a drink and the feckwits all screamed for him to fork off. Even when the video showed he was wrongly pinged they mostly did a Trump and dismissed the video like it was an alternative fact. Fecking Morons.
It was odd at "The G" last night, the atmosphere just wasn't there. As a crowd it was pretty mixed up with people just there because it was the first game. Lots of supporters from other clubs, they were more objective and balanced in their comments about the Carlton players than most of our supporters.
There was a goal kicked by Rich at the city end last night from a boundary throw in during the first qtr. From memory, and I was at the opposite end of the ground, the Rich ruckman took it easily, after Cas stumbled cluelessly towards the boundary line, and either snapped the goal or hacked it fwd and someone else snapped it. It was an example of how poor Cas's ruck craft is and how little he imposes himself physically on a contest. If he cant ruck, cant impose himself physically and cant kick straight, his days are well and truly numbered.
Kruezer went absolutely nuts at him for 'allowing' that goal. Impossible to expect MK to be at every ball up/throw in, but it was a real lapse in strategy.
wow sorry for giving an opinion, won't make that mistake again, but seriously, some of you guys should go to a game occasionally, its a whole new perspective
I suspect we'll see a much better showing from our blokes on Sunday next against the ...'Go Dees' (said with a posh lisp from a bloke wearing a Range Rover bow tie).
McKay, Palmer, Kerridge, Lamb and Graham would be in line for promotion but, looking back on last year we are loathe to make wholesale changes so I would anticipate 2, max. Should be interesting.
I really hope you're right Baggers (I won't be there due to a family commitment) but I fear the Dees may well be a bigger handful than the Tigers, even though Dusty won't be there!
wow sorry for giving an opinion, won't make that mistake again, but seriously, some of you guys should go to a game occasionally, its a whole new perspective
Your opinions are welcome, but we don't have to agree with them!
When Thomas got wrongly pinged for the throw I was in the bar getting a drink and the feckwits all screamed for him to fork off. Even when the video showed he was wrongly pinged they mostly did a Trump and dismissed the video like it was an alternative fact. Fecking Morons.
It was odd at "The G" last night, the atmosphere just wasn't there. As a crowd it was pretty mixed up with people just there because it was the first game. Lots of supporters from other clubs, they were more objective and balanced in their comments about the Carlton players than most of our supporters.
You should have sat with me in front of two of the most biased, one eyed Carlton, battle axes I have ever heard. At half time, I looked up stats an saw frees were 9-7 our way. One of them said "I'd like to see the free kick count". I turned to her and said "its 9-7 our way" and she looked me in the eye and said "Bulltish". They saved their best till last though, when Cripps tried to bump Dusty and came off second best, one of the battle axes yelled "Bloody Umpire, didnt you see what Martin did to Cripps". I turned to my mate at that point and said "we need to go".
Yep, Cripps tried to hit Martin and came off second best because he didn't commit to it.
If anyone doubts why daisy gets a game, for me it was the third quarter, ball was in dispute at half back and we managed to get it to our mids on the wing. Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas all in the vicinity. Ditto SPS. Anyhow I can't recall the entire play, but it ended with a bit of a fast break where Pickett marked inside 50 and handballed over the top to Thomas on the line who kicked an easy goal.
The bloke runs, and runs hard to make position. He does it both ways, and Kreuzer aside was one of our only players switched on at the start of the game.
His body let's him down, and blokes like him and Rowe will be criticised weekly as they're easy targets.
If anyone doubts why daisy gets a game ... The bloke runs, and runs hard to make position. He does it both ways, and Kreuzer aside was one of our only players switched on at the start of the game.
Spot on Thry - gives both-ways effort, tackles hard, puts his frail body on the line, wins the hard ball but he needs to stop trying to kick the ball because he can't do it effectively. He and Ed Curnow need to develop their handball skills.
Spot on Thry - gives both-ways effort, tackles hard, puts his frail body on the line, wins the hard ball but he needs to stop trying to kick the ball because he can't do it effectively. He and Ed Curnow need to develop their handball skills.
Yes. We had quite a few players that were much worse than Daisy.
too many on here knock him because they want him to fail. Very shallow-minded.
In respect of last night, there would be five or six ahead of him getting the chop if the decision is based on performance.
Yet everyone is calling for his head for this game.....almost exclusively.
Peoples bias are clouding their judgements in regards to daisy.
Their bias comes from many areas.
1. His paycheque
2. His former club
3. His recruitment coinciding with the exit of a much loved small forward
4. His friendship with a not-so-loved former coach
5. His bad luck with injuries
NONE of that is his fault.
The main issue for folks, from what I can see, is the question of his value which is obviously related to the size of his paycheck.
If, for the sake of argument, he was being paid half of what he was contracted at, would the same criticisms be advanced? Don't know, but I would suspect they would be at a much lower level.
Without criticising Daisy, but much much more was expected by many from him, primarily in terms of on field performance, for what he is/was being paid. He acknowledged that himself. I think what we are really mainly seeing is a lot of frustration being vented rather than actual blaming or hatred of him personally tbh.
Spot on Thry - gives both-ways effort, tackles hard, puts his frail body on the line, wins the hard ball but he needs to stop trying to kick the ball because he can't do it effectively. He and Ed Curnow need to develop their handball skills.
Agree. He ran as hard as anyone and runs to space. As silly as his contract is, we are a better side right now with him in. A smattering of very experienced players will speed up the development of the youth. Big picture
The main issue for folks, from what I can see, is the question of his value which is obviously related to the size of his paycheck.
If, for the sake of argument, he was being paid half of what he was contracted at, would the same criticisms be advanced? Don't know, but I would suspect they would be at a much lower level.
Without criticising Daisy, but much much more was expected by many from him, primarily in terms of on field performance, for what he is/was being paid. He acknowledged that himself. I think what we are really mainly seeing is a lot of frustration being vented rather than actual blaming or hatred of him personally tbh.
He's clearly in our best 22, what he gets paid is irrelevant, and we cannot keep butchering our youth under the guise of accelerated development. If the likes of Daisy were not out there Thursday night we'd have lost by far more probably because we would have been even more disorganised.
Continual depressing losses are like Chinese water torture, the kids won't recover from them, the pressure will build and their only way forward will be to find greener pastures.
We need the likes of White, Thomas, Wright, Casboult, Kreuzer, Armfield, Murphy, Gibbs, E.Curnow, Rowe, etc., etc., to stand up and look after the kids. Lead them for feck sake! Not just use them as some sort of sacrificial chop-out shield of self-preservation to extend their own careers. Last Thursday only Murphy, Kreuzer, Wright and Thomas get a pass mark in this regard.
He's clearly in our best 22, what he gets paid is irrelevant, and we cannot keep butchering our youth under the guise of accelerated development. If the likes of Daisy were not out there Thursday night we'd have lost by far more probably because we would have been even more disorganised.
Continual depressing losses are like Chinese water torture, the kids won't recover from them, the pressure will build and their only way forward will be to find greener pastures.
We need the likes of White, Thomas, Wright, Casboult, Kreuzer, Armfield, Murphy, Gibbs, E.Curnow, Rowe, etc., etc., to stand up and look after the kids. Lead them for feck sake! Not just use them as some sort of sacrificial chop-out shield of self-preservation to extend their own careers. Last Thursday only Murphy, Kreuzer, Wright and Thomas get a pass mark in this regard.
He may very well be in our best 22 - not arguing about that - I'm saying that whatever he is providing, and that may be his absolute 100% best, is seen by many as costing over the odds. However, if you think that what players are paid is irrelevant then I rest my case - I won't pursue the debate any further.
We have too many try hard plonkers on our list. Some of them (Thomas) are plonkers because they have talent, but have been crippled by injury, and others (Curnow) are plonkers because despite great endurance, they have a poor skill set.
Too many players who have limitations for their own different reasons is a big part of the problem.
He may very well be in our best 22 - not arguing about that - I'm saying that whatever he is providing, and that may be his absolute 100% best, is seen by many as costing over the odds. However, if you think that what players are paid is irrelevant then I rest my case - I won't pursue the debate any further.
What a club offers them is very relevant, once they are on the books it no longer an issue.
All the players are even-steven with each new training session, it cannot be any other way without destroying the club culture and team moral.
One of the reasons a lot of us hate MM was because of the perceived bias against certain players, mostly derived from some on-field mistake and extended into the off-field and the media by the coach who in his own words "defends his players". He wanted a band of loyal followers, a completely anarchistic and obsolete way of managing a team, and failed in his attempt by falling at the very first hurdle, trust.
But it's not just MM that has questions to answer in this regard, the attitude from the likes of Henderson, Lucas, Yarran and Everitt also needs significant scrutiny. Their "marking time" attitude can be a cancer that is almost impossible to remove. At the moment I fear we have quite a few of that type left on our list, on the surface of it Boekhorst appears to be one, I'm not sure about Jaksch, Jones, Casboult, Gorringe, Lamb or Buckley in this regard either. The biggest public indicator of this "failing trait" is a players unwillingness to sacrifice themselves for team-mates on field.
When a team-mate has the opportunity to make a block, create space, a diversion or interference it should be automatic. Those are the valuable 1%ers. Too many of our blokes either don't do it or see it as optional.
Yet everyone is calling for his head for this game.....almost exclusively.
Peoples bias are clouding their judgements in regards to daisy.
Their bias comes from many areas.
1. His paycheque
2. His former club
3. His recruitment coinciding with the exit of a much loved small forward
4. His friendship with a not-so-loved former coach
5. His bad luck with injuries
NONE of that is his fault.
I have always supported Daisy's recruitment but I think injuries have crueled his career and his time may be up. Dont care how much he gets paid, don't care where he came from, don't care who he is mates with. Can he do his role and contribute? Only the coaches know that. From an outside looking in, he doesnt look like he has much left in the tank. Time will tell.
Yet everyone is calling for his head for this game.....almost exclusively.
I'd be in the "almost" group then. Not sure how exclusive it is though ;)
I've been frustrated by what I see (which is far from what's on show of course) from Daisy on game day, and further by his unfortunate injuries. This is primarily due to having expectations of him really adding to on field success. It hasn't eventuated quite like that, at least not consistently.
When you accept the strengths and limitations of the individual and the team, it's easier to comprehend. It's easier to see where the coaching staff may be coming from. Two questions remain for mine:
Will CFC get value for doing the trade compared to other options available at the time?
Can our current crop gain significantly from his contributions?
IMO its a no and yes, respectively.
As we don't have time travel available, we can't change 1.
As he will be one of us this year, I'm hopeful those in the know will facilitate him giving the best he has to give. For those reasons, I'll treat him the respect our players deserve. And no doubt feel the pangs of frustration from time to time.
I have always supported Daisy's recruitment but I think injuries have crueled his career and his time may be up. Dont care how much he gets paid, don't care where he came from, don't care who he is mates with. Can he do his role and contribute? Only the coaches know that. From an outside looking in, he doesnt look like he has much left in the tank. Time will tell.
Yes, it's stating the obvious, but come season's end, we'll know how much the club rates him.
I have always supported Daisy's recruitment but I think injuries have crueled his career and his time may be up. Dont care how much he gets paid, don't care where he came from, don't care who he is mates with. Can he do his role and contribute? Only the coaches know that. From an outside looking in, he doesnt look like he has much left in the tank. Time will tell.
The bold part is the key.
That is what gets him picked in the side and others not.
I agree he doesn't look like he has much left. He knows that himself. Doesn't stop him busting his behind each and every time he crosses the line. Something i only wish the rest of our blokes could do.
The bold part is the key.
That is what gets him picked in the side and others not.
I agree he doesn't look like he has much left. He knows that himself. Doesn't stop him busting his behind each and every time he crosses the line. Something i only wish the rest of our blokes could do.
Agreed
Daisy is the least of our worries.
As for the trade being poor value at least he's playing senior footy, unlike Jaksch who we traded pick seven for.
Now that trade really sucks.
Daisy is the least of our worries.
As for the trade being poor value at least he's playing senior footy, unlike Jaksch who we traded pick seven for.
Now that trade really sucks.
That's a fair point re Jaksch. Not sure that Daisy is the least of our worries though.
That's a fair point re Jaksch. Not sure that Daisy is the least of our worries though.
There are three or four at least who would get a spell in the VFL before Thomas, he at least can hit a target more than half the time which is more than you can say for some of them.
People have been calling for his head ever since he came to the club but he's never been dropped, so either he's worth his spot or the match committee are clueless, in which case he's the least of our problems.
Daisy is the least of our worries.
As for the trade being poor value at least he's playing senior footy, unlike Jaksch who we traded pick seven for.
Now that trade really sucks.
The stuff up we apparently made with Jaksch does not make me feel any better about any small amount of consolation we may be getting out of the Daisy deal unfortunately.
Reminds me of the story of the guy who went into hospital to have a leg amputated. When he woke up after the op the surgeon said that he had bad news and good news. Bad news, he'd inadvertently amputated the good leg. Good news, the guy in the next bed was interested in buying his slippers. ::)
(apologies for that one!).
The stuff up we apparently made with Jaksch does not make me feel any better about any small amount of consolation we may be getting out of the Daisy deal unfortunately.
I get it, but what's the huge problem?
If it's only what he's being paid I for one couldn't care less, Liam Jones is being paid by us as well and we might as well donate his wages to charity.
Thomas gets a game on his merits despite what some armchair experts think, and if the time comes in the next few years that we have enough talent on our list to replace him I'll be very happy because it will mean that we have a vastly better side than we currently have.
As for the trade being poor value at least he's playing senior footy, unlike Jaksch who we traded pick seven for.
Now that trade really sucks.
All 3 of those players we got in that trade have played more games each, than the bloke who was taken at pick 7. Yes, even the delisted Whiley has played more games than pick 7 has.
I get it, but what's the huge problem?
If it's only what he's being paid I for one couldn't care less, Liam Jones is being paid by us as well and we might as well donate his wages to charity.
Thomas gets a game on his merits despite what some armchair experts think, and if the time comes in the next few years that we have enough talent on our list to replace him I'll be very happy because it will mean that we have a vastly better side than we currently have.
Sure he gets a game on his current merits but we surely could be getting that input at much lower cost. I guess I just don't like paying through the nose for something. We did not get good value for our large $s and I, together with plenty of others find that very frustrating. I get that we have got to live with it. Just don't ask me to like it.
Sure he gets a game on his current merits but we surely could be getting that input at much lower cost. I guess I just don't like paying through the nose for something. We did not get good value for our large $s and I, together with plenty of others find that very frustrating. I get that we have got to live with it. Just don't ask me to like it.
Yes, I wonder how many other players currently on an AFL list have the same output / do the same job that Daisy does ?
All 3 of those players we got in that trade have played more games each, than the bloke who was taken at pick 7. Yes, even the delisted Whiley has played more games than pick 7 has.
Why do you assume that we would have picked the same player?
Sure he gets a game on his current merits but we surely could be getting that input at much lower cost. I guess I just don't like paying through the nose for something. We did not get good value for our large $s and I, together with plenty of others find that very frustrating. I get that we have got to live with it. Just don't ask me to like it.
I get that a large number of Carlton supporters are pissed off with Thomas, he probably gets it as well so it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.
It wouldn't be easy to give your best under those circumstances, just sayin.
In other news, The Demons don't look that crash hot against the Aints.
We just might be a chance.
Why do you assume that we would have picked the same player?
I don't. We probably would've picked some other bloke who never played a game instead.
Point is, just because OUR side of the trade didn't work out, doesn't mean we lost the trade.
In other news, The Demons don't look that crash hot against the Aints.
We just might be a chance.
Indeed. I don't have any access to watch the game, but they staged a good 2nd q comeback, it looks like they're doing ok on the scoreboard and the stats.
If you have any vision of the game, please let me know your thoughts. Both the Dees and Saints are finals bound according to most "experts".
Indeed. I don't have any access to watch the game, but they staged a good 2nd q comeback, it looks like they're doing ok on the scoreboard and the stats.
If you have any vision of the game, please let me know your thoughts. Both the Dees and Saints are finals bound according to most "experts".
Melbourne kicked away in the 3rd. Both teams making basic skill errors. Poor decision making.
St kinda engine room shut down in the 3rd
I don't. We probably would've picked some other bloke who never played a game instead.
Point is, just because OUR side of the trade didn't work out, doesn't mean we lost the trade.
Win or lose, trading away pick 7 for spuds is a bad trade in anyone's language given that we knew exactly what we were getting.
Melbourne kicked away in the 3rd. Both teams making basic skill errors. Poor decision making.
St kinda engine room shut down in the 3rd
Thanks matey. Dees are 35 points to the good as I write. I can't see us beating them if they're doing this to the Saints, but I'm very happy to be surprised next week.
Demons had an easy win, Brisbane crapping on GC, Bumblers beating Hawks, Collingwood pushed the Premiers.
It doesn't look like there are any easybeats with the possible exception of us, we really need to make a statement this week.
Demons had an easy win, Brisbane crapping on GC, Bumblers beating Hawks, Collingwood pushed the Premiers.
It doesn't look like there are any easybeats with the possible exception of us, we really need to make a statement this week.
Thinking the same thing, we might have improved but so have everyone else and looking for possible wins isnt easy....
GC and Brisbane down here in Melb I think is our best bet....
Thinking the same thing, we might have improved but so have everyone else and looking for possible wins isnt easy....
GC and Brisbane down here in Melb I think is our best bet....
Not so sure. Watching the games so far, our skills were bad but so are all the other teams. Both saints. And demons looked horrible. The score line is flattering.
Gc and Brisbane - both have a lot of improving to do. Hawks are not the same team. Age + new players - experience = loss to bombers. Bombers looked ok at times but only because hawks midfield allowed them to.
It'll be interesting to see the games tomorrow
If freo does a number on Geelong I'm calling now, Freo v gws grand final.
It's hard to see us beating anyone on Thursday night's effort, it was a very meek performance.
How far off is Byrne by the way?
Byrne originally expected mid-season. Usually a 1yr injury, give or take.
Byrne originally expected mid-season. Usually a 1yr injury, give or take.
shortest 8-9 months i read somewhere....
shortest 8-9 months i read somewhere....
Here's hoping. He'll be a great addition.
I probably sound like a broken record, but raise the intensity a gear or 2 and we might just get a glimpse of what the talent that we have is capable of !!
A 2nd half hearted effort in a row will......... I don't even want to think about it.
We need to run and spread harder. WBs do it and finish their game exhausteds. Even CheatsFC did it to the Hawks last night, were out of interchanges but kept running hard to space. Looked knackered after the game. Our blokes looked liked they hadnt even played a game.
I think that Bolton and the match committee need to get fair dinkum.
Armfield and Casboult barely touched the ball in the first half when the game was being lost and Ed Curnow was filthy all night.
Performances like those from senior players are unacceptable and set a poor example, they should pay the price with a few weeks in the VFL.
McKay can get his shot, someone like Buckley, Lamb or Boekhorst couldn't be any worse than Armfield and even though Graham is limited he'll have more impact than Curnow.
We need to stop spectating while teams take games away from us.
I'd be grooming Kerridge as a tagger, runs all day and big body. Can also find the footy, also drift forward and kick a goal. Needs a job as letting him hunt the footy without minding an opponent means that his disposal becomes an issue.
Kerridge tagging makes use of his strengths and minimizes his limited disposal efficiency. I'd try that.
What then of Ed?
Kerridge tagging makes use of his strengths and minimizes his limited disposal efficiency. I'd try that.
What then of Ed?
Ed is a great warrior but his skills are worse than Kerridge, when players like Ed and Kerridge are surplus then thats the time we
will be going places....
And................. we're off the bottom! :P
Ed is a great warrior but his skills are worse than Kerridge, when players like Ed and Kerridge are surplus then thats the time we
will be going places....
Agree, and we could add a few more names to that surplus list.
Ed is a great warrior but his skills are worse than Kerridge, when players like Ed and Kerridge are surplus then thats the time we
will be going places....
Both these guys are warriors who give there all and are great clubmen, but they just don't posses the polish we require.
Both these guys are warriors who give there all and are great clubmen, but they just don't posses the polish we require.
However, when they are as good as we've got while others develop, they are excellent role models and honest triers.
However, when they are as good as we've got while others develop, they are excellent role models and honest triers.
Indeed, dont dispute that.
And................. we're off the bottom! :P
Well, I reckon we're doing well. We above the warm premiership favourites...lol!!!
However, when they are as good as we've got while others develop, they are excellent role models and honest triers.
Curnow has come on a lot as a player, he is the least of our problems. ON Friday, was he tagging Dusty (I don't know)?
Army, White, Daisy bigger issues imo in terms of output.....
For mine - we get down and dirty!
Ed Curnow harassing, niggling, clawing, tagging. Simon White goes onball and does the same. If not White, I'd bring Sam Kerridge in to do the same as Ed Curnow. I wouldn't mind seeing White in there flying the flag and giving the opposition the crapes.
Are we really going to let antagonists in Nafe Jones, Jack Viney, Jordan Lewis, Bernie Vince and Clayton Oliver really rule the roost and climb all over us, more so climb all over our one mid star in the sore Patrick Cripps?
For mine:
In - Cuningham, Palmer
Out - Thomas, Armfield
Team:
B: Macreadie, Rowe, Plowman
Hb: Docherty, Marchbank, Simpson
C: Murphy, Cripps, Gibbs
Hf: Wright, Weitering, Petrevski-Seton
F: Pickett, C.Curnow, J.Silvagni
Foll: Kreuzer, White, E.Curnow
I/c: Cuningham, Palmer, Casboult, Smedts
Emg: McKay, Kerridge, Fisher
Pretty much nailed it with selection there pretty. I wouldn't mind fisher coming in as I think he is quite zippy in and around the bubble could expose the legspeed of jones, Viney etc
Pretty much nailed it with selection there pretty. I wouldn't mind fisher coming in as I think he is quite zippy in and around the bubble could expose the legspeed of jones, Viney etc
To be honest, i had mad a couple of other positional changes but changed them based on it being round 2, and maybe I had gone a little early of too many changes. I had Cuningham in the backline with Docherty and Simmo to provide zip/pace and also as a learning curve to become a Simpson/Docherty quarterback.
I like your idea of Fisher. He's a tough little nut too.
Reckon the zip could come on the outside via Murphy, Wright, SPS, Pickett and Simpson, if we get inside, down and dirty via others bigger bodies. Doch and Gibbs on the outside with their quick minds and hands, could do some damage getting the ball with some time and spacer and 'creating' form there.
I'd also like to see the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Docherty, Cripps, Simpson rotate through the middle. If that means Gibbs and Murphy have to spend time at half-back, we should do it IMO.
For mine - we get down and dirty!
Ed Curnow harassing, niggling, clawing, tagging. Simon White goes onball and does the same. If not White, I'd bring Sam Kerridge in to do the same as Ed Curnow. I wouldn't mind seeing White in there flying the flag and giving the opposition the crapes.
Are we really going to let antagonists in Nafe Jones, Jack Viney, Jordan Lewis, Bernie Vince and Clayton Oliver really rule the roost and climb all over us, more so climb all over our one mid star in the sore Patrick Cripps?
For mine:
In - Cuningham, Palmer
Out - Thomas, Armfield
Team:
B: Macreadie, Rowe, Plowman
Hb: Docherty, Marchbank, Simpson
C: Murphy, Cripps, Gibbs
Hf: Wright, Weitering, Petrevski-Seton
F: Pickett, C.Curnow, J.Silvagni
Foll: Kreuzer, White, E.Curnow
I/c: Cuningham, Palmer, Casboult, Smedts
Emg: McKay, Kerridge, Fisher
Yep.
We don't like physical contact and everyone knows it.
Surely White is surplus with Rowe, Marchbank and Plowman in the back half, you wouldn't drop any of them in preference to White.
We need more run out of defence.
However, when they are as good as we've got while others develop, they are excellent role models and honest triers.
I'll give you that they try but in what sense are they role models other than maybe on the training track?
Poor disposal and an inability to find the ball doesn't a role model make in my book.
Somebody needs to bitch slap Viney back into his box, so full of himself and gets away with it.
Can see their midfield lording it over us - they have a midfield built for modern football, ours is akin to one from 20 years ago.
White plays on-ball or not at all. Kerridge on a wing, perhaps Palmer as well.
Somebody needs to bitch slap Viney back into his box, so full of himself and gets away with it.
Can see their midfield lording it over us - they have a midfield built for modern football, ours is akin to one from 20 years ago.
White plays on-ball or not at all. Kerridge on a wing, perhaps Palmer as well.
What we'd do to have a Mitch Robinson go toe-to-toe with a Jack Viney!
I'm in the Ed Curnow, White, Palmer and Kerridge to become the 'role players' for us onball, negating, tagging and harassing all game, every game.
Can these blokes do that though? And will BB adhere to a change?
What we'd do to have a Mitch Robinson go toe-to-toe with a Jack Viney!
Geez, he would have been handy against Dusty.
Mitch Robinson always has a real crack when given those sorts of tasks. Ablett Jnr, Fletcher, Kennedy, Mundy, etc., etc., Mitch had the size, strength and pace to match it with any of them. Given clear instructions he was like a dog chasing a ball, just relentless.
I get the feeling the way Robinson played was not appreciated by his team-mates. It came across to me that our guys were too scared of retribution caused by Robinson's actions, they wanted him to cool it a little. That tells you something about our list and more importantly it tells our opposition something our list, the opposition know that if they persist in pushing us hard enough for long enough we are likely to take a step back.
I had hoped that continually being bullied would eventually cause some fight back from our team, but it seems we have chosen the path of least resistance and will prefer to walk away. On the sporting field that doesn't work like it might in life, on the sporting field only here and now counts, tomorrow is a reset.
I want to see some toe-to-toe niggling on Sunday, with plenty of elbows into ribs. None of last week's "let's handball to Murph" who gets swamped and driven into the turf by 3 players. Stick a few tackles FFS.
Put Casboult out on a wing ironing a few mid-fielders out ala Collingwood game last year. Or maybe a CHB/HBF role where there was so much space for Griffith last week. He needs to throw his weight around, not just be an invisible 3rd banana in the forward line behind Wright and SOSOS. Kerridge on the small forwards might relieve Doc and Simpson. Much tighter checking required this week.
I have a feeling we will see a different approach against the Dees this week. We wont allow them bully us I reckon. BB would have made some of their ears ring in the post mortem.
re: Robbo..looks like he has matured with a bit more responsibility and is seen as a leader now at Brisbane, would be handy for us now given his aggression but thats footy
you win some...you lose some....and Robbo will probably be a loss but you pickup a Matty Wright as a freebie and you probably get a win over a dumped player like Garlett.
We need to pickup a Robbo type for nothing as a free agent and get another win...
I want to see some toe-to-toe niggling on Sunday, with plenty of elbows into ribs. None of last week's "let's handball to Murph" who gets swamped and driven into the turf by 3 players. Stick a few tackles FFS.
Put Casboult out on a wing ironing a few mid-fielders out ala Collingwood game last year. Or maybe a CHB/HBF role where there was so much space for Griffith last week. He needs to throw his weight around, not just be an invisible 3rd banana in the forward line behind Wright and SOSOS. Kerridge on the small forwards might relieve Doc and Simpson. Much tighter checking required this week.
Casboult has a job to do cleaning out his shorts after his push and shove with Dusty.
Disgraceful effort
Casboult has a job to do cleaning out his shorts after his push and shove with Dusty.
Disgraceful effort
Mark Porter Mk.II ;D
Someone should sit him down and show him video of TreeBeard going troppo, giants can hit too!
Is there any truth in the rumor that tall people are more susceptible to fainting? :o
The whole 22 blokes need to fire up and show a bit of mongrel.....we've been seen for eons now as 'soft'.
We were super soft vs. the Tigers.
Oh, the shame!
The whole 22 blokes need to fire up and show a bit of mongrel.....we've been seen for eons now as 'soft'.
We were super soft vs. the Tigers.
Oh, the shame!
Too true. The senior guys need to set the examples and fly the flag. We need blood and guts, get the adrenaline pumping! Unfortunately we are very very short of players like that.
I'd be keeping the same side for this week. First game of the season, people calling for the heads of blokes like Armfield and Curnow have short memories... Amongst our best last year, even though that's not saying much.
Rowe is my main concern... He easily beat Reiwoldt all night, but if I was going to drop someone to make a statement it'd just about be him... I have never seen someone so reluctant to take a mark in my life. Several times, all on his lonesome and could have taken a chest mark, and he punches the ball. WTF!!! And it was noticeable last year as well.
That Brendan Bolton fanatical team pressure is MIA this season.
Was slightly better at times on Thurs night but still non-existent compared to last year. We look like we're chasing our tails most of the time.
That Brendan Bolton fanatical team pressure is MIA this season.
Was slightly better at times on Thurs night but still non-existent compared to last year. We look like we're chasing our tails most of the time.
We were a bit better after half time but we looked very tentative in the first two quarters. I got the impression we were struggling to execute the game plan and set ups whilst under pressure, which was pretty high by the Tigers. Hopefully that will improve, starting on Sunday.
I'd be keeping the same side for this week. First game of the season, people calling for the heads of blokes like Armfield and Curnow have short memories... Amongst our best last year, even though that's not saying much.
Rowe is my main concern... He easily beat Reiwoldt all night, but if I was going to drop someone to make a statement it'd just about be him... I have never seen someone so reluctant to take a mark in my life. Several times, all on his lonesome and could have taken a chest mark, and he punches the ball. WTF!!! And it was noticeable last year as well.
That's usually caused by a lack of talk and support from fellow defenders, very rarely is it the players own fault.
That's usually caused by a lack of talk and support from fellow defenders, very rarely is it the players own fault.
I'd generally agree, but it is a long term habit of Rowe's.
I'd generally agree, but it is a long term habit of Rowe's.
It might also be a long term habit of our Church Mouse team! ;)
btw., It can look very bad, but I also think he wasn't penalised once by the umpires who have to right to penalise him for deliberate OOB if they perceive he was under no pressure.
There is a factor not considered.
That was an 80 000 crowd, night match.
How many of those have we played over the last 2 years?? I think the answer is about 3 and do not underestimate what that can do to a player.
There is a factor not considered.
That was an 80 000 crowd, night match.
How many of those have we played over the last 2 years?? I think the answer is about 3 and do not underestimate what that can do to a player.
It was one of the quietest games I have ever been to, it was hard to believe there was 70K spectators there.
Perhaps the silence was off-putting?
I don't disagree with that, but thats what Richmond have begun now. In the 3/4 when Murphy found his straps and starting willing us back into the game, you could hear the collective brown note around me.
They have seen that play out one too many times, where we have run over them as their players switched off. Luckily for them Dusty was running around doing as he pleased.
Again, if it was an uncommon occurrence I'd agree, but it's every week. And on the church mouse thing, every bloody time? I doubt that's the reason... If it is, he needs his 4rse kicked harder for not having more awareness. So.e of those punches there was no one within kooee
Rowe is my main concern... He easily beat Reiwoldt all night, but if I was going to drop someone to make a statement it'd just about be him... I have never seen someone so reluctant to take a mark in my life. Several times, all on his lonesome and could have taken a chest mark, and he punches the ball. WTF!!! And it was noticeable last year as well.
Some people were saying White might make way because Rowe/Marchbank/Plowman are all thats needed in defense....but also we need more run from defense.
Rowe does like to punch the ball which is annoying people.
I've suggested before that instead of dropping one of those 4, we drop Casboult.
We send Rowe forward where he can re-learn how to mark the ball.....and he can pinch hit in the ruck, but let Kreuzer do the bulk of it as that is what suits him best.
It allows us to keep more run (white as '3rd tall') without weakening our backline.
It gives us 2 tall targets up forward....who can kick!
Some people were saying White might make way because Rowe/Marchbank/Plowman are all thats needed in defense....but also we need more run from defense.
Rowe does like to punch the ball which is annoying people.
I've suggested before that instead of dropping one of those 4, we drop Casboult.
We send Rowe forward where he can re-learn how to mark the ball.....and he can pinch hit in the ruck, but let Kreuzer do the bulk of it as that is what suits him best.
It allows us to keep more run (white as '3rd tall') without weakening our backline.
It gives us 2 tall targets up forward....who can kick!
There you go again with logic!!!
Some people were saying White might make way because Rowe/Marchbank/Plowman are all thats needed in defense....but also we need more run from defense.
Rowe does like to punch the ball which is annoying people.
I've suggested before that instead of dropping one of those 4, we drop Casboult.
We send Rowe forward where he can re-learn how to mark the ball.....and he can pinch hit in the ruck, but let Kreuzer do the bulk of it as that is what suits him best.
It allows us to keep more run (white as '3rd tall') without weakening our backline.
It gives us 2 tall targets up forward....who can kick!
I don't mind this idea, and would be quite happy to see it trialed for a few games.
Worth a try.
Bernie Vince is suspended and misses this week.
Has to help our forward a little being such a clean user coming out of their back 50.
We match up ok on them when played for 4 points. If Kreuzer can negate Gawn's influence, especially around the ground and if he drifts forward might be a little closer then many expect.
Or they could pump us. ;D
Why wasn't Rance cited for a front-on hit?
Why wasn't Rance cited for a front-on hit?
Was thinking exactly the same thing. They must have missed it. ???
But they didn't miss Levi...he copped $1000 fine for regulation bump.
Why wasn't Rance cited for a front-on hit?
Was thinking exactly the same thing. They must have missed it. ???
But they didn't miss Levi...he copped $1000 fine for regulation bump.
Does anyone know who sat on the MRP this week?
As for Levi, what a freaking joke, his feet barely move, he had no momentum, and Vlastuin collapsed into his shoulder after tripping over the pill! Perhaps next week Murphy should throw himself at Viney's shoulder and get the kid rubbed out, Viney's got a record!
All I ask for is EFFORT and lots of it.
INTENSITY
MANIC GANG TACKLING
not much to ask for ::)
All I ask for is EFFORT and lots of it.
INTENSITY
MANIC GANG TACKLING
not much to ask for ::)
+1. Nailed it!
In - McKay, Cuningham, Polson
Out - Armfield, Thomas, Casboult O0 :P O:-)
In - McKay, Cuningham, Polson
Out - Armfield, Thomas, Casboult O0 :P O:-)
Like it....play the kids and lets see how they go and who can handle the heat......
Given those three gave us diddly anyway last week, wtfn?
Given those three gave us diddly anyway last week, wtfn?
I don't understand the love/hate opinion people have of Casboult.
I was at the game and yeah he could've done more but so could've 21 other blokes ::)
He was still marking strongly and he nailed two lovely set shot goals he would've missed last year.
His confidence is up, 2 from 2 so lets drop him :o
He doesn't get more shots because he is not being played as a stay at home Forward. He plays up the ground with the rest of our bl**dy players leaving open Bolton's Backyard!
He has become a marking link player, marking on the wing and kicking into the Forward 50, whereas he should be the receiver in the 5.
He definitely plays in the Battle of the Beards with Gawn!
I don't understand the love/hate opinion people have of Casboult.
I was at the game and yeah he could've done more but so could've 21 other blokes ::)
He was still marking strongly and he nailed two lovely set shot goals he would've missed last year.
His confidence is up, 2 from 2 so lets drop him :o
He doesn't get more shots because he is not being played as a stay at home Forward. He plays up the ground with the rest of our bl**dy players leaving open Bolton's Backyard!
He has become a marking link player, marking on the wing and kicking into the Forward 50, whereas he should be the receiver in the 5.
He definitely plays in the Battle of the Beards with Gawn!
I like Casboult as the second ruckman. He gives it a good crack in the ruck (with one notable exception) and definitely offers more than a second genuine ruckman like Phillips around the ground.
I like Casboult as the second ruckman. He gives it a good crack in the ruck (with one notable exception) and definitely offers more than a second genuine ruckman like Phillips around the ground.
Casboult was a rookie and plays like one. He has lasted much longer on the list than ideal because we have been so bad, and the past few years of attempts at KP players since fev have failed, i.e. Watson, Mitchell, Jones et al. He doesn't work hard enough and his kicking is disastrous. But right now, as we bring younger players in, he needs to play, if anything to give Kreuzer a chop out. Curnow and McKay are not ready, nor should they be rushed.
If we improve as hoped Casboult will be dropped around round 12-15 and not get another contract. He aint going to improve, and wishing it so isn't enough.
What you currently see is what you are ever likely to get with Levi IMO. A non strategic player in our future plans hence his contract situation.
I don't understand the love/hate opinion people have of Casboult.
I was at the game and yeah he could've done more but so could've 21 other blokes ::)
He was still marking strongly and he nailed two lovely set shot goals he would've missed last year.
His confidence is up, 2 from 2 so lets drop him :o
He doesn't get more shots because he is not being played as a stay at home Forward. He plays up the ground with the rest of our bl**dy players leaving open Bolton's Backyard!
He has become a marking link player, marking on the wing and kicking into the Forward 50, whereas he should be the receiver in the 5.
He definitely plays in the Battle of the Beards with Gawn!
That's pretty much how I saw Casboult's game too, although he kicked 1.1, not two goals. I was directly behind his first effort and it looked like it was a goal from the moment it left his boot but it tailed off at the last minute.
Anyway, I suspect Bolts and the match committee value Casboult's work just a little higher than those folk who seem to have chosen him as the 2017 whipping boy :)
Levi was poor first half good second half. Some were poor all game.
I must apologise - clearly I was distracted when I last posted.
I reckon Levi goes ok and part of his 'problem' is that he is used badly imo.
Like the rest of the 22 he clearly needs to raise his hunger levels, intensity, whatever - but he's only part of the wider malaise in that area!
In - McKay, Cuningham, Polson
Out - Armfield, Thomas, Casboult O0 :P O:-)
Casboult will play as we have no other 2nd ruck. Bringing McKay in does allow him to be a permanent 2nd ruck, which might work well given his ability to take a mark around the round.
Levi was poor first half good second half. Some were poor all game.
Thats how I saw it too.
He couldnt get near the footy in the first half.
Thats how I saw it too.
He couldnt get near the footy in the first half.
Yes, first half diabolical, 2nd half pretty good. Ruck work in the pre-season and last week the best i've seen from him. Think that's his position now.
I need to go back and watch the game again. I thought he was well beaten at most of his ruck contests, and slow in getting to some of them as well.
I need to go back and watch the game again. I thought he was well beaten at most of his ruck contests, and slow in getting to some of them as well.
I thought similar watching it live at the ground, he was often caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's something I don't understand about him because he basically spent his whole junior career as a ruck, alas an unfit one, but he should at least know where to be and when. His best VFL season was rucking and pushing forward.
But my biggest concern was his 2nd and 3rd efforts, they are still effectively non-existent. You can get away with poor tap-work if you make up for it at ground level, getting in the way of opponents, making space for your team-mates, tackling and harassing. He does very little of this stuff, and it's such a contrast to Kreuzer.
Also for someone with his marking ability he doesn't push anywhere near hard enough to get forward, and his defensive work is poor. He's still too easily maneuvered and bustled out of the way by smaller players. Opposition forwards should fear him when he is in the vicinity, instead he is rarely in the contest on the defensive side of the center, which probably says something about work rate.
At his size and shape he should have a Mumford type presence, Mumford should be his role model. Casboult is actually more mobile than Mumford, a better mark and fitter. But he just doesn't have the mindset to impose himself on the game. As a result when the he gets a run in the ruck it's like the opposition are getting a breather, they are not forced to work hard enough in his presence.
He has improved this year, but he's got a long way to go, as a ruck option he is now as effective as Rowe but still some significant way behind Kreuzer or Phillips.
I haven't watched a replay, but it's hard to tell from replays as you only get to see them when they are in shot and therefore close to the ball.
Yes, first half diabolical, 2nd half pretty good. Ruck work in the pre-season and last week the best i've seen from him. Think that's his position now.
I thought he was reasonable in the ruck in the 2nd half and was better than Griffiths who was the Tigers 2nnd String.....but at the same time I wasnt impressed with his lack of physicality towards Dustin Martin
when we needed him to step in and show whose boss. Levi needs some license to throw that big frame about, did it once and cleaned up Vlastuin but I want more of that brutality and intensity....
I thought he was reasonable in the ruck in the 2nd half and was better than Griffiths who was the Tigers 2nnd String.....but at the same time I wasnt impressed with his lack of physicality towards Dustin Martin
when we needed him to step in and show whose boss. Levi needs some license to throw that big frame about, did it once and cleaned up Vlastuin but I want more of that brutality and intensity....
I'd love to know what their instructions are when it comes getting physical with opponents :-\
It got pretty willing at times in the NB's practice match and the bigger blokes - Jaksch, Jones, Korcheck and McKay - were quick to get involved, as was Silvagni. However, it was generally in response to a Richmond transgression and I didn't really notice much in the way of rough stuff that we initiated.
I haven't really noticed much "unsociable" footy in the senior side. Perhaps that's not a Hawthorn trait that Bolton wants us to emulate.
I haven't really noticed much "unsociable" footy in the senior side. Perhaps that's not a Hawthorn trait that Bolton wants us to emulate.
We just don't have the cattle, it's not something you can force on players, they just switch off if you try.
Carlton's extended squad for Round 2:
Backs 33. Jarrod Pickett 22. Caleb Marchbank 20. Lachie Plowman
Half-backs 26. Harrison Macreadie 17. Sam Rowe 15. Sam Docherty
Centreline 46. Matthew Wright 4. Bryce Gibbs 6. Kade Simpson
Half-forwards 1. Jack Silvagni 41. Levi Casboult 30. Charlie Curnow
Forwards 43. Simon White 23. Jacob Weitering 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton
Followers 8. Matthew Kreuzer 9. Patrick Cripps 3. Marc Murphy (C)
Interchange (from): 27. Dennis Armfield 35. Ed Curnow 32. Nick Graham 11. Sam Kerridge 10. Harry McKay 16. Billie Smedts 39. Dale Thomas
In: Sam Kerridge, Nick Graham, Harry McKay
Out: Nil
New: Harry McKay (Gippsland Power)
I don't understand the love/hate opinion people have of Casboult.
I was at the game and yeah he could've done more but so could've 21 other blokes ::)
He was still marking strongly and he nailed two lovely set shot goals he would've missed last year.
His confidence is up, 2 from 2 so lets drop him :o
He doesn't get more shots because he is not being played as a stay at home Forward. He plays up the ground with the rest of our bl**dy players leaving open Bolton's Backyard!
He has become a marking link player, marking on the wing and kicking into the Forward 50, whereas he should be the receiver in the 5.
He definitely plays in the Battle of the Beards with Gawn!
Not sure if you've got Foxtel, but David King has been doing this 'list analysis' with his pre/post match coverage.
The long and the short of it is this.
Levi Casboult is giving us -53% when compared to every other player in the AFL who is the same age and position as him.I think from our whole list, we only have about 7 players who actually give us more than average when compared to player of same age and position. This is going back a few weeks, but i think it included Weitering, Simpson, Docherty, Gibbs (just), Silvagni, Cripps (+43%!) and maybe Murphy. Casboult was by far the worst % on the list. A player of his age in that position, should be in the peak of his career and fighting it out for the coleman. Not battling to kick a goal a game.
And our opponents:
Melbourne
B: Jayden Hunt, Oscar McDonald, Jake Melksham.
HB: Neville Jetta, Tom McDonald, Nathan Jones.
C: Christian Salem, Jordan Lewis, Billy Stretch.
HF: Clayton Oliver, Sam Weideman, Jack Watts.
F: Christian Petracca, Jesse Hogan, Jeff Garlett.
Fol: Max Gawn, Angus Brayshaw, Jack Viney.
Int: Dom Tyson, Dean Kent, Mitch Hannan, Alex Neal-Bullen, Jake Spencer, Ben Kennedy, James Harmes (Three to be omitted)
Melbourne have a few players under injury clouds, but they are further advances on their rebuild than we are.
Not sure if you've got Foxtel, but David King has been doing this 'list analysis' with his pre/post match coverage.
The long and the short of it is this. Levi Casboult is giving us -53% when compared to every other player in the AFL who is the same age and position as him.
I think from our whole list, we only have about 7 players who actually give us more than average when compared to player of same age and position. This is going back a few weeks, but i think it included Weitering, Simpson, Docherty, Gibbs (just), Silvagni, Cripps (+43%!) and maybe Murphy. Casboult was by far the worst % on the list. A player of his age in that position, should be in the peak of his career and fighting it out for the coleman. Not battling to kick a goal a game.
I hear you and get you and understand where you are coming from.
But we are coming from SO FAR back that any positive no matter how small we seem to cling to.
Our stock of good players is as thick as tissue paper so if a player can pull some boots on, take marks and kick goals then he is a legend.
Other teams are able to pick up some knob at pick 45 and he turns out as a first 22, built like a brick st house and a 100 game match winner, I mean WTF. We pick up a top 10 player and he plays 15 games and ALWAYS looks like a string bean and couldn't hit the side of a barn door with a bag full of wheat.
Our playing list is so full of weakness and weak spots it is not funny.
SO MANY good picks stuffed up (no F**KING STUFFED UP) by incompetence.
The club we all love wants success but knows F**K all about how to get it. Why do other clubs get it and we don't?
Bolton has brought cohesion and that is all at the moment and with our thin list that is about as much as we can expect.
I understand we are on the road of a rebuild and want it and expect it and support it BUT who ever is left wearing that beautiful Navy Blue Guernsey I EXPECT them as an unconditional requirement they wear it with pride and play with INTENSITY and PASSION AND leave NOTHING on the field.
NOT go through the motion and collect their pay cheque. >:(
I'm looking forward to watching the boys on Sunday. That's two of my grandsons who will be representing Torquay Auskick at halftime :)
As for the big boys, I hope Harry McKay gets a run and goes on from where he left off in the NB's practice game. I suspect that his acceleration will test any opponent tall enough to compete with him in the air.
That's tops DJC. Enjoy watching the grandkids and make sure you ride that wave of pride for all it's worth!
I'm looking forward to watching the boys on Sunday. That's two of my grandsons who will be representing Torquay Auskick at halftime :)
As for the big boys, I hope Harry McKay gets a run and goes on from where he left off in the NB's practice game. I suspect that his acceleration will test any opponent tall enough to compete with him in the air.
Wishing your grandsons a great day. Torquay, what a great part of the world, far cry from BH!
I hope Harry gets a run as well, but the big question is... who does he replace? Difficult one. I suspect he'll be an emergency, along with the other two ins.
Don't get me started on Casboult. Yes, he upped his effort in the second half last week BUT a bloke of his experience and size should have hit the ground running. His lapses cost us greatly. We must stop making excuses for this bloke.
Wrapped to see Macreadie locked in on the HBF.
Graham deserved promotion and personally I'd see him line ball with Thomas re inclusion.
Curnow bros had better improve, a lot, this Sunday.
Weitering forward again? Yes please.
I am not surprised that Cuningham is not promoted. This very talented kid had better learn intensity and desire... Another with an issue between the lugholes. Graham should not be in front of him, but he is way in front probably because he doesn't vanish from time to time and never squibs it... and Polson is also in front of him.
I have a feeling we will win this week.
Just on Casboult, it's worth having a look at this assessment from early last season:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/levi-casboult-has-what-it-takes-to-be-an-elite-forward-in-the-afl--if-only-he-knew-how-to-kick/news-story/9913b26d4a497fbc5291215a5a62ab93
Casboult is rated elite or above average among key forwards in 5 categories and below average or poor in 4 categories. There's obviously room for improvement but he's not the spud that some so-called experts think he is. I reckon he needs to kick 30-40 goals at around 60% to extend his career.
Thomas, Armfield and White. Pack your bags for the early game.
Thomas, Armfield and White. Pack your bags for the early game.
White's in the 18 means he'll likely play seniors. Not sure why we need to select him. Prefer we play Harry McKay.
Pick 44 in the Rookie Draft....I reckon Casboult's exceeded expectations ;)
Simon White..same... 56 in the same rookie draft.
Don't think Harry will play maybe there as a mental reminder for casboult that others are coming for his spot eventually, do something
McKay should play IMHO.
Just on Casboult, it's worth having a look at this assessment from early last season:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/levi-casboult-has-what-it-takes-to-be-an-elite-forward-in-the-afl--if-only-he-knew-how-to-kick/news-story/9913b26d4a497fbc5291215a5a62ab93
Casboult is rated elite or above average among key forwards in 5 categories and below average or poor in 4 categories. There's obviously room for improvement but he's not the spud that some so-called experts think he is. I reckon he needs to kick 30-40 goals at around 60% to extend his career.
Casboult's numbers are behind both Brad Fisher and Setanta O'Hailpin, he's a spud.
Just on Casboult, it's worth having a look at this assessment from early last season:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/levi-casboult-has-what-it-takes-to-be-an-elite-forward-in-the-afl--if-only-he-knew-how-to-kick/news-story/9913b26d4a497fbc5291215a5a62ab93
Casboult is rated elite or above average among key forwards in 5 categories and below average or poor in 4 categories. There's obviously room for improvement but he's not the spud that some so-called experts think he is. I reckon he needs to kick 30-40 goals at around 60% to extend his career.
If he was an F1 driver that report is akin to saying he's the fastest, best overtaker, fittest and strongest competitor in the field.
But he crashes every race!
McKay should play IMHO.
No reason in the world why he shouldn't.
He's hardly a 2 pound weakling....
Charlie Curnow to start in the guts IMO.
No reason in the world why he shouldn't.
He's hardly a 2 pound weakling....
Exactamondo - he's simply gotta play.
Charlie Curnow to start in the guts IMO.
Agree...I see CC as a mid who can play forward and we need another big body around the footy, he also seems to need a bit of warming up in the games I have seen.
Can look lethargic and I reckon a bit more early action is what he needs to fire up...
It would be interesting to know how much Cripps has been limited by his pre-season layoff. He was a shadow of himself in Rd1. Will he grow stronger as the season progresses or will we need to wait until 2018 to see him return to his best? Problem is, we don't really have another in-and-under.
Agree...I see CC as a mid who can play forward and we need another big body around the footy, he also seems to need a bit of warming up in the games I have seen.
Can look lethargic and I reckon a bit more early action is what he needs to fire up...
I dont want to put the moz on him but he seems to get hurt easily for a bloke his size.
Agree...I see CC as a mid who can play forward and we need another big body around the footy, he also seems to need a bit of warming up in the games I have seen.
Can look lethargic and I reckon a bit more early action is what he needs to fire up...
Charlie may become a midfielder but he's not one now. I reckon he should play as a lead up forward until he's mastered that role. Once he's achieved that, he can be set a new challenge.
At the moment he's neither a forward or a midfielder and I think he should be given the opportunity to settle in to one position - perhaps with the odd change up if he's not getting into the game.
So, White and Casboult get another game, Armfield too maybe.
We must have bugger all in the VFL.
Charlie may become a midfielder but he's not one now. I reckon he should play as a lead up forward until he's mastered that role. Once he's achieved that, he can be set a new challenge.
At the moment he's neither a forward or a midfielder and I think he should be given the opportunity to settle in to one position - perhaps with the odd change up if he's not getting into the game.
I'm not concerned if he's a mid, forward or back. To start him in the guts is to change it up for him, and the team. Unleash him and give him the challenge/opportunity to get the ball rolling for us this week.
I dont want to put the moz on him but he seems to get hurt easily for a bloke his size.
I agree.
At the moment Charlie Curnow's strength and durability for midfield work aren't up to scratch, that makes him a liability in the midfield which causes the the other mids to get overloaded. If my sources are correct it could be another season or two before his aerobic capacity / endurance fully recovers from having glandular fever.
If he isn't up to speed this has an effect on those around him. Once you rely on one or two doing the bulk of the work you get blokes breaking down, I don't want Cripps breaking down because we want a kid to get a glimpse of the big time!
Further is Melbourne the side you want to play dumpling mid-fielders against? (When I say dumpling it has nothing to do with Curnow's build) Blokes like Lewis, Viney and Jones have him comfortably covered and will do some real damage to the kid.
The only conditions that are not negotiable for a midfielder are physical conditioning and work ethic. Charlie might have the work ethic, but if he isn't physically up to competing it's better that he stays clear and lets the big boys play.
So, White and Casboult get another game, Armfield too maybe.
We must have bugger all in the VFL.
Casboult has to back up ruck. White, no need to play him now. Prefer to play McKay.
Casboult has to back up ruck. White, no need to play him now. Prefer to play McKay.
Casboult's just as hopeless as a ruckman as he is as a forward but he and White are both named in the 18 so they are both playing.
I honestly can't see the point in persevering with blokes who we know aren't good enough and never will be, even if some of the kids aren't quite ready surely getting games and experience into them is a better move than going along with the plodders.
I don't buy the line that losing heavily destroys the kids' confidence and scars them, if they're any good their character will get them through and if not there's nothing lost.
It looks as though we've given up on Jaksch if he can't get a game in Sunday's side.
Casboult's just as hopeless as a ruckman as he is as a forward but he and White are both named in the 18 so they are both playing.
I honestly can't see the point in persevering with blokes who we know aren't good enough and never will be, even if some of the kids aren't quite ready surely getting games and experience into them is a better move than going along with the plodders.
I don't buy the line that losing heavily destroys the kids' confidence and scars them, if they're any good their character will get them through and if not there's nothing lost.
It looks as though we've given up on Jaksch if he can't get a game in Sunday's side.
He's not. He actually rucked well last week. He's the only one of our back up ruckmen that can do anything around the ground. Plus we have no other back up ruckman we have right now.
So no changes?
Thomas, white both named....
I'm not concerned if he's a mid, forward or back. To start him in the guts is to change it up for him, and the team. Unleash him and give him the challenge/opportunity to get the ball rolling for us this week.
He was unleashed in the midfield last week and was like a lost dog. If he is to be a midfiel.der, he needs to learn how to play there. I'd prefer to see him gain confidence in a role that he understands and can play well now.
He's not. He actually rucked well last week. He's the only one of our back up ruckmen that can do anything around the ground. Plus we have no other back up ruckman we have right now.
Richmond's rookie ruckman shoved him out of the way, grabbed the ball and kicked a goal from a boundary throw in as easy as shelling peas, he's hopeless.
I'd sooner run Rowe as the second ruck like we did early with O'Hailpin when he was playing back, at least Rowe's not a complete liability when he's not on the ball.
No matter how much wishful thinking we employ about players like Casboult, White, Armfield and Ed Curnow the fact is that they are scrubbers who would never have got a game for us when we had decent sides and wouldn't get a game at any other side in the AFL.
It's just an indication of how far off the pace we are and how far we have still to go, even if every draft pick from last year and this make the grade we'll still be short of three or four good players.
I've still got patience, and I'm happy that we've finally got a coach who isn't a wacker, but I won't be getting excited until we get the scrubber count down to one or two each weekend.
So no changes?
Thomas, white both named....
Thomas named on an extended bench so could be dropped, White will play.
He was unleashed in the midfield last week and was like a lost dog. If he is to be a midfiel.der, he needs to learn how to play there. I'd prefer to see him gain confidence in a role that he understands and can play well now.
Only the elite midfielders make a mark in their first 10 games, and not even all of them do.
Kouta looked very scrappy early on.
I hear you and get you and understand where you are coming from.
But we are coming from SO FAR back that any positive no matter how small we seem to cling to.
Our stock of good players is as thick as tissue paper so if a player can pull some boots on, take marks and kick goals then he is a legend.
Other teams are able to pick up some knob at pick 45 and he turns out as a first 22, built like a brick st house and a 100 game match winner, I mean WTF. We pick up a top 10 player and he plays 15 games and ALWAYS looks like a string bean and couldn't hit the side of a barn door with a bag full of wheat.
Our playing list is so full of weakness and weak spots it is not funny.
SO MANY good picks stuffed up (no F**KING STUFFED UP) by incompetence.
The club we all love wants success but knows F**K all about how to get it. Why do other clubs get it and we don't?
Bolton has brought cohesion and that is all at the moment and with our thin list that is about as much as we can expect.
I understand we are on the road of a rebuild and want it and expect it and support it BUT who ever is left wearing that beautiful Navy Blue Guernsey I EXPECT them as an unconditional requirement they wear it with pride and play with INTENSITY and PASSION AND leave NOTHING on the field.
NOT go through the motion and collect their pay cheque. >:(
I agree with you about the club as a whole.
In regards to the Casboult part of it, in short, we know what we are going to get from him and it is well below average when compared to his peers.
It's like when we were playing Setanta. He was full of energy, tried his guts out and was a good athlete. However, he simply didn't have footy smarts and/or ability to pick up the nuances of the game.
From where he came from, he did a superb effort. Which brings me to this...
Pick 44 in the Rookie Draft....I reckon Casboult's exceeded expectations ;)
Simon White..same... 56 in the same rookie draft.
Once you are on the list, it doesn't matter where you were taken and if you exceeded expectations, or failed to live up to them. It matters what you can do out on the footy field.
Final Team --- NO CHANGE
WOW
It's inconceivable that we can go into this game unchanged given the insipid effort last week.
Not sure that there's anything to lose by swapping Thomas or White for Kerridge and McKay. Hell, I'd even prefer to see Jaksch ahead of White.
It's inconceivable that we can go into this game unchanged given the insipid effort last week.
Not sure that there's anything to lose by swapping Thomas or White for Kerridge and McKay. Hell, I'd even prefer to see Jaksch ahead of White.
In all honesty, dropping anyone after 1 week is a bit harsh. For all his flaws and lack of motivation, and lack of effort in his game last year it was still harsh to drop Jaksch. He was brought in for 1 game then dropped never to be seen again.
At least everyone gets a 2nd crack at it now. No excuses if they put in another poor performance.
Final Team --- NO CHANGE
WOW
WOW :o
No doubt going in unchanged is a surprise, I am wondering what the msg is there? After out performance last week, i would have thought there would have been some.
No doubt going in unchanged is a surprise, I am wondering what the msg is there? After out performance last week, i would have thought there would have been some.
I'm not sure that it is much of a surprise. There weren't too many blokes in the NBs whose performance screamed "pick me!" Graham and McKay were two who would have attracted the MC's attention. Graham tries hard but I don't think he offers any more than Thomas (and I think I'm being generous to Graham here). I would have liked to see McKay get a game but I suspect that his debut will be managed carefully. Kerridge will have this week as an emergency and should then either get a game or go back to the NBs.
Yeah, Mackay was the only 1 that really put his hand up for me, and I'm not really upset that they have kept him out.
For the 22 picked, again, there will be no excuses. There has to be a much better effort and performance this week.
@DJC, all the best to you and your boys this week!!
How does Daisy do it?
Is it a miracle?
Love to hear your thoughts! ::)
It's inconceivable that we can go into this game unchanged given the insipid effort last week.
Not sure that there's anything to lose by swapping Thomas or White for Kerridge and McKay. Hell, I'd even prefer to see Jaksch ahead of White.
we should get insipid with not good enough O:-)
Yeah, Mackay was the only 1 that really put his hand up for me, and I'm not really upset that they have kept him out.
For the 22 picked, again, there will be no excuses. There has to be a much better effort and performance this week.
@DJC, all the best to you and your boys this week!!
Yeah. Harry was the only one that made any sort of a statement last week, and that was only in a practice match.
But as you say Amers, there will need to be some improvements this week.
David Parkins theory is a good one though. History has proved that over the years.
How does Daisy do it?
Is it a miracle?
Love to hear your thoughts! ::)
Brains, workrate, leadership.
You don't have to be a good player just contribute and help your teamates learn.
I have no doubt many blokes are on 'last warnings'!
But all in all, it's about hunger and effort - that's not a function of age or experience - but attitude.
That's where CFC has been soft for a long, long time now.
Still staying up late on Christmas eve hoping for a glimpse of Father Christmas Thry?
@DJC, all the best to you and your boys this week!!
Cheers!
The boys and their dad are featured in the Torquay paper this week, promoting the start of Auskick. My son in law is the co-ordination.
I'm looking forward to watching them but I will also be very interested to see how our form and effort compares to the JLT game.
Scanning through the stats, I noticed Charlie Curnow is now listed as 194cm. Wasn't he 191cm last year?
I have no doubt many blokes are on 'last warnings'!
But all in all, it's about hunger and effort - that's not a function of age or experience - but attitude.
That's where CFC has been soft for a long, long time now.
It's interesting that we saw no changes this week and I was just thinking that maybe the MC are not giving players what could be seen as an easy out by dropping them. Players dropped after one game could argue that they just had an off game and look forward to re-selection after a couple of good and redeeming performances in the NBs.
However, if they get two or three chances to perform well in the seniors but still fail, then they would have to work much harder in the NBs to convince the the club that they are worth hanging on to. In other words, this could be a way of really sorting the sheep from the goats?
It's interesting that we saw no changes this week and I was just thinking that maybe the MC are not giving players what could be seen as an easy out by dropping them. Players dropped after one game could argue that they just had an off game and look forward to re-selection after a couple of good and redeeming performances in the NBs.
However, if they get two or three chances to perform well in the seniors but still fail, then they would have to work much harder in the NBs to convince the the club that they are worth hanging on to. In other words, this could be a way of really sorting the sheep from the goats?
Good point
Brains, workrate, leadership.
You don't have to be a good player just contribute and help your teamates learn.
I see, there is no "I" in team! ;)
The media a forking morons, how Bolton doesn't end up delivering some MM style replies is beyond me. Every press conference is the same, Dale Thomas form, Bryce Gibbs trade, Jacob Weitering forward, Matthew Kreuzer work rate, how good are the Dawks don't you wish you were still there, rinse and repeat.
I'd would be nice to hear something different for a change, but they are mostly moronic repetitive questions that get the same answer.
Right at the end, Bolts ignores the questions and gives them some real insight. It could have happened 10mins earlier if they had half a brain between them!
I see, there is no "I" in team! ;)
Though there is in side, and m,e in team ;D
Though there is in side, and m,e in team ;D
Where does team start and end, at me! ::)
Scanning through the stats, I noticed Charlie Curnow is now listed as 194cm. Wasn't he 191cm last year?
Yes Mav, he's shot up over the last 12 months and, with a little more muscle, could be a genuine key forward. He spent quite bit of time at full forward against the Tigers but didn't do a great deal.
The fact he was still growing last year may have prevented Charlie from getting stuck into the weights. I'm not sure, but I thought I read somewhere that care has to be taken in that circumstance.
Edit: a quick google search suggests that may be a myth.
Charlie's only played a handful of games and shows some real flair so there's reason to be confident that he'll measure up, but only time will tell.
If he doesn't he won't be the only dud first round pick we've made in the last ten years, but I like what I've seen so far.
As for Daisy, he was a long way from our worst player last week so I'm buggered if I know why anyone wanted him dropped.
I have no doubt many blokes are on 'last warnings'!
But all in all, it's about hunger and effort - that's not a function of age or experience - but attitude.
That's where CFC has been soft for a long, long time now.
That's my impression too.
I also don't see the issue giving players more than 1 game (and the big opener to boot) to settle and show their wares.
If they pick up from where they left off last week (a fair 2nd half), and learn from the scratchy 1st half, they'll maximize their 2nd opportunities. Only then would I be dropping players.
Scanning through the stats, I noticed Charlie Curnow is now listed as 194cm. Wasn't he 191cm last year?
Hope the big Dufus goes a bit harder at the footy this week ;)
Hope the big Dufus goes a bit harder at the footy this week ;)
As Jack Dyer used to say he was getting where the ball " aint"....
Still staying up late on Christmas eve hoping for a glimpse of Father Christmas Thry?
I don't get it. Thomas is liked by his coaches because he works hard and is a smart footballer.
I never thought he was all that talented, but I knew he worked his dot off.
I don't get it. Thomas is liked by his coaches because he works hard and is a smart footballer.
I never thought he was all that talented, but I knew he worked his dot off.
I don't understand why people don't give credit where credit is due.
So many posters on here stated over and over again that all they want to see from our side is effort and attitude, yet they kick Daisy who delivers both those things in spades!
I don't understand why people don't give credit where credit is due.
So many posters on here stated over and over again that all they want to see from our side is effort and attitude, yet they kick Daisy who delivers both those things in spades!
A lot of people just can't get past the Malthouse/Collingwood connection and the pay cheque, but as a wise man once said to me, "I've never known anyone to knock back a job because the pay was too high".
I don't get it. Thomas is liked by his coaches because he works hard and is a smart footballer.
I never thought he was all that talented, but I knew he worked his dot off.
I don't understand why people don't give credit where credit is due.
So many posters on here stated over and over again that all they want to see from our side is effort and attitude, yet they kick Daisy who delivers both those things in spades!
When the work and/or effort means not quite getting to contests, not being a marking option, and kicking out of bounds, grubbers and directly to the opposition, it's quite reasonable to question the selection of Daisy.
He may have an admirable attitude and give 100% but his best today is a shadow of what it was when he was at his peak. I know some folk believe that he provides on field leadership but, from what I have observed, Daisy is fully engaged in self preservation and has little time or energy for anything else.
Pay particular attention to what he does when we're setting up after a goal. He will generally run to the wrong position and will have several players telling him where he should be.
When the work and/or effort means not quite getting to contests, not being a marking option, and kicking out of bounds, grubbers and directly to the opposition, it's quite reasonable to question the selection of Daisy.
He may have an admirable attitude and give 100% but his best today is a shadow of what it was when he was at his peak. I know some folk believe that he provides on field leadership but, from what I have observed, Daisy is fully engaged in self preservation and has little time or energy for anything else.
Pay particular attention to what he does when we're setting up after a goal. He will generally run to the wrong position and will have several players telling him where he should be.
I guess the question is then..
Why does he keep getting picked?
Surely there must be a reason he's preferred over others.
I know we often look at a game with our own bias affecting our opinions so we'll see the little efforts or failures that others mightn't pick up on.
...but surely a coaching group would be all over the strengths and limitations of a player and they see fit to still pick him.
I refuse to believe, as some suggest, that he gets picked because he's on such a high salary.
That's a nonsense that if true would make us pretty screwed up as a club.
Nope there has to be another sound reason.
Yeah, there is... He's not as bad as some might have you think.
Easily in our best 22.
Maybe not worth the dough he is on, but still better than the other options we have.
Yes. Easily in our best 22.
Not the player he was a C'wood, but still worth his place in our side.
Not worth he money he's been getting, but still worth his place .
We should look very hard at the situation before signing him for another season, but he is still worth his place in the side.
If the other players had come out to play with the same intensity that Daisy, Murphy and Kreuser did in the first quarter last week, we would have been much closer than we were at quarter time.
If the other players had come out to play with the same intensity that Daisy, Murphy and Kreuser did in the first quarter last week, we would have been much closer than we were at quarter time.
There is the reality of the situation, the shallow thinking blame game focused on Daisy lets the real disappointing players hide in his shadow.
If there are hard questions to be asked of Daisy, there must be much harder questions asked about some others.
I guess the question is then..
Why does he keep getting picked?
Surely there must be a reason he's preferred over others.
I know we often look at a game with our own bias affecting our opinions so we'll see the little efforts or failures that others mightn't pick up on.
...but surely a coaching group would be all over the strengths and limitations of a player and they see fit to still pick him.
I refuse to believe, as some suggest, that he gets picked because he's on such a high salary.
That's a nonsense that if true would make us pretty screwed up as a club.
Nope there has to be another sound reason.
The simple answer is that Daisy gets picked because he is currently in our best 22 - although it must be a line-ball with Kerridge. He will continue to play until the likes of Cuningham, Lamb, Fisher, etc demand his spot.
There are several other players currently in our best 22 that need to be displaced before we will be truly competitive. I guess that's the challenge for our development coaches and the benchmark for SOS's list management.
The simple answer is that Daisy gets picked because he is currently in our best 22
So why does he cop 90% of the criticism when things go wrong?
Murphys handball to daisys feet drew a lot of criticism last week. It resulted in a goal to the opposition. The majority of people blamed daisy. It was clearly Murphys fault for not hitting the target (despite being under some pressure), yet he gets a pardon because of the bloke on the other end.
If the handball was to Cripps instead of Daisy, people would then be complaining about Murphy, because Cripps is more loved.
DJC sees what I see, and I ain't drinking the "he provides awesome leadership Kool-Aid".
People's tolerance of Daisy's limited output is over, that's why he is the whipping boy. We - and let's face it we all did - expected so much more and we have due to circumstances received a sub-par result. 3 and a bit season of ... what? How many games have you seen where he was clearly in the best three players.... ???
Then, trying to justify the deal with his supposed leadership prowess is, IMHO, verging on self-delusion.
DJC sees what I see, and I ain't drinking the "he provides awesome leadership Kool-Aid".
People's tolerance of Daisy's limited output is over, that's why he is the whipping boy. We - and let's face it we all did - expected so much more and we have due to circumstances received a sub-par result. 3 and a bit season of ... what? How many games have you seen where he was clearly in the best three players.... ???
Then, trying to justify the deal with his supposed leadership prowess is, IMHO, verging on self-delusion.
There is a difference between trying to justify the deal, and pointing out that he provides leadership. They are not one and the same.
Who is drinking the kool-aid?
The ones who point out reasons why he gets picked each week?
The ones who ignore the fact that he is picked every week, thus thinking they know better than the coach and MC, and talk of self delusion?
I know the answer to that, i'm not sure you do.
DJC sees what I see, and I ain't drinking the "he provides awesome leadership Kool-Aid".
People's tolerance of Daisy's limited output is over, that's why he is the whipping boy. We - and let's face it we all did - expected so much more and we have due to circumstances received a sub-par result. 3 and a bit season of ... what? How many games have you seen where he was clearly in the best three players.... ???
Then, trying to justify the deal with his supposed leadership prowess is, IMHO, verging on self-delusion.
Amen. I'd go as far to say Daisy would have the opposite effect - players get disgruntled where they see a highly paid dud (and that's certainly what he has become based on onfield performance) delivering little but getting selected week in, week out.
DJC sees what I see, and I ain't drinking the "he provides awesome leadership Kool-Aid".
People's tolerance of Daisy's limited output is over, that's why he is the whipping boy. We - and let's face it we all did - expected so much more and we have due to circumstances received a sub-par result. 3 and a bit season of ... what? How many games have you seen where he was clearly in the best three players.... ???
Then, trying to justify the deal with his supposed leadership prowess is, IMHO, verging on self-delusion.
So that's aimed straight at the coach correct?
Amen. I'd go as far to say Daisy would have the opposite effect - players get disgruntled where they see a highly paid dud (and that's certainly what he has become based on onfield performance) delivering little but getting selected week in, week out.
They'd be making excuses then, and the club is better of getting rid of them not the guys who are actually getting picked in the 22! ;) I want players who play, not play if the price is right!
Bolton has come out publicly, twice as part of the The Journey and repeatedly in press conferences, and stated it is about culture, attitude and endeavour. If you think Daisy is not being picked on merit then you are basically calling Bolton a bullsh1t artist, so why do we persist with him as coach!
GTC is correct when he makes this conclusion about the Daisy selection criticism, ultimately it cannot be anything else.
So that's aimed straight at the coach correct?
The editors in the media know this, the nuffas behind the scenes pulling the strings know this, and when we buy into their blame game argument what we are really doing is undermining Bolton.
Kruddler made this point very well but nobody debates it because it's an uncomfortable truth.
So why does he cop 90% of the criticism when things go wrong?
Murphys handball to Daisy's feet drew a lot of criticism last week. It resulted in a goal to the opposition. The majority of people blamed daisy. It was clearly Murphys fault for not hitting the target (despite being under some pressure), yet he gets a pardon because of the bloke on the other end.
If the handball was to Cripps instead of Daisy, people would then be complaining about Murphy, because Cripps is more loved.
Murphy is according to the media our million dollar captain but he hot potatoes the ball at first opportunity, and when the recipient of the hospital handball is Daisy it is apparently Daisy's fault!
When an umpire pings Daisy for throwing, and the replays show everyone that he clearly didn't throw, the media and the mindless sheep of a fan base still blame Daisy. I understand they want someone to blame, but I'm shocked our fan base is led so easily, we are clearly the mindless mob! Media blokes like King and Robinson must piss themselves laughing at how easily they can steer our clubs opinion.
The ar5ewipe media types pick up on the fan sentiment and stoke the fires, and the sheep follow. I have mentioned this plenty of times before, not just in relation to our club but in regards to other clubs as well, when they say "look this way" you're best off looking the other way first. Then asking yourself why, what is their motive, and finally assessing the accuracy of their past statements and predictions. When you dredge up their history it's littered with errors that they never mention an do not want to discuss. For example most of them predicted MM could only be good for Carlton, but what they really wanted was a quote!
When the likes of Lloyd, Lyon, Dunstall and Bartlett start bagging Daisy and pushing for Carlton to play youth, they know the kids will initially under-perform and that our fickle fan base will turn on them, leaving the kids feeling unwanted and wanting out! They can then pick the bones out of whatever is left when the contracts expire, it's the Henderson, Betts, Tuohy, Robinson, Laidler, Garlett, Jacobs, Kennedy scenario repeated over and over again. We "let go' or "traded away" half a finals team, and they want us to do it over and over again!
Amen. I'd go as far to say Daisy would have the opposite effect - players get disgruntled where they see a highly paid dud (and that's certainly what he has become based on onfield performance) delivering little but getting selected week in, week out.
x3
Our recent form (last 20 games) against Mt Buller FC is as follows:
LLLLWLWWLLWWWWWWWLWW
One of the only teams we have gone ok against so I reckon it wont be as easy as for the Dees as everyone thinks.
Blues by 19 pts
Really interested to see how Weitering goes against this backline compared to last week when he had a AA full back to deal with. I always wanted us to make him a general CHB type but if he can become a serious forward then the benefit to us is far greater if he becomes a top CHF.
Our recent form (last 20 games) against Mt Buller FC is as follows:
LLLLWLWWLLWWWWWWWLWW
One of the only teams we have gone ok against so I reckon it wont be as easy as for the Dees as everyone thinks.
Blues by 19 pts
I give us a chance based on that previous form ...need to be better than last week and Cripps/Gibbs/Murphy need to be in the 5 best on ground for us to win IMO....
Our recent form (last 20 games) against Mt Buller FC is as follows:
LLLLWLWWLLWWWWWWWLWW
One of the only teams we have gone ok against so I reckon it wont be as easy as for the Dees as everyone thinks.
Blues by 19 pts
Hopefully so GTC. I've got a feeling that we'll come out and have a red hot crack at it this week.
Hopefully so GTC. I've got a feeling that we'll come out and have a red hot crack at it this week.
Its all we can demand Cookie, I'm sure the coach has this week on the training track.
Hmmm ... Melbourne may be a big improver this year on the back of Lewis Hogan Petracca (?sp) Oliver and co. Not sure the recent history of our matches will be of much relevance.
We'll win...I feel it in my old bones. ;)
They'll take us easy and we'll upset them. :D
I'd love to be wrong, but I don't reckon we'll get within 7 goals.
We'll win...I feel it in my old bones. ;)
They'll take us easy and we'll upset them. :D
I'm not sure I would trust your bones. :)
I'm not sure I would trust your bones. :)
Yep
We have to consider that the prediction is also being made with an "old brain" ;D
Hmmm ... Melbourne may be a big improver this year on the back of Lewis Hogan Petracca (?sp) Oliver and co. Not sure the recent history of our matches will be of much relevance.
I would agree Mav, especially when most of the players that helped create the victories are mostly gone . Seriously undermanned against a well drill team we will struggle , as long as we see growth, & effort will be great
A non negotiable...
Who ever wears that beautiful Navy Blue Guernsey I EXPECT them as an unconditional requirement they wear it with pride and play with INTENSITY and PASSION AND leave NOTHING on the field.
Go Blues
Totally agree BluePhantom , you would think that by this stage players wouldn't be out there with out that mind set, but delivering it is the difference at times .
Daisy gets games because of something that he brings every week. 2Nd, 3Rd and 4th efforts.
I know that's not enough for some people but if that rubs off on other players that's fine by me.
Daisy gets games because of something that he brings every week. 2Nd, 3Rd and 4th efforts.
I know that's not enough for some people but if that rubs off on other players that's fine by me.
Like when John Kennedy asked, "Just do something!", Daisy does it but it's not enough for fans who want him to be everything to everyone.
The critics should instead focus on the blokes jogging around the center square watching play proceed around them!
Daisy was OK today, not a marque player, but not one of the many spuds either! And you know what, despite his lack of pace and as a result the pressure he finds himself under, more often than not he manages to clumsily fumble the ball to our advantage or at least a contest while others in the team just turn it stone cold over!
Daisy gets games because of something that he brings every week. 2Nd, 3Rd and 4th efforts.
I know that's not enough for some people but if that rubs off on other players that's fine by me.
I think the problem is, your average punter watches the ball. Makes sense.
However, the best players in the league are the best because of what they do when they don't have the ball.
Nick Riewoldt used to cop a lot of flak for his poor kicking. That's what people saw.
However, what people ignored was the 200m sprints he did in order to get the ball, lead + back, lead + back, lead again. By the time he got the ball, he had jelly legs and it affected his kicking.
Hard running is underrated by your average punter. It happens to be one of Daisys strengths.
There is a reason he gets the 'joe the gooses' over the top.
I think the problem is, your average punter watches the ball. Makes sense.
However, the best players in the league are the best because of what they do when they don't have the ball.
Nick Riewoldt used to cop a lot of flak for his poor kicking. That's what people saw.
However, what people ignored was the 200m sprints he did in order to get the ball, lead + back, lead + back, lead again. By the time he got the ball, he had jelly legs and it affected his kicking.
Hard running is underrated by your average punter. It happens to be one of Daisys strengths.
There is a reason he gets the 'joe the gooses' over the top.
The same applies to Gibbs, he does the work of dealing with an opponent early, often before the kick or handball happens. Then the fans plug him for getting too many uncontested possessions.
The same applies to Gibbs, he does the work of dealing with an opponent early, often before the kick or handball happens. Then the fans plug him for getting too many uncontested possessions.
Good observation LP. The work that Gibbs, Murphy, Thomas, Kreuzer and Curnow put in before the contest is often overlooked.