This Sunday afternoon at Piranha Park (I wonder if Coburg know that Brazilian prostitutes are nicknamed 'Piranhas'?) we play Coburg in a match to commemorate Vicky Cleary and Family violence.
Coburg have not set the world on fire yet: they have not won a game so far. However, they did well against us last year.
Our ruck situation this week will be interesting. Kreuzer will probably return for Carlton, so Phillips will likely be available. However, he is probably the only ruckman who will be available, with injuries to Gorringe and Korchek.
The fitness of impressive VFL player Marcus Stavrou and Carlton rookie Jesse Glass-McCasker is very much in doubt. Both we thumped last week late in the game. Sheahan is unlikely and neither Lamb nor Sumner will be ready to return either.
COBURG v. NORTHERN BLUES
Round 3 - 30/04/2017
02:00
Piranha Park
Coburg
B: 37. J. Corigliano, 10. S. Gregory, 5. R. Exon
HB: 38. D. Aujla, 6. M. Orr, 25. T. Cleary
C: 11. B. Mullane, 28. C. Byrne, 9. N. Blair
HF: 3. H. Kerbatieh, 34. T. Curtis, 4. K. Posar
F: 1. B. Allan, 12. P. McEvoy, 2. P. Lawlor
R: 29. T. Goodwin, 8. N. Mellington, 7. C. Burgess
Int: 35. C. Holdsworth, 22. D. Wyatt, 41. M. Kovacevic, 26. L. Hunt, 21. N. Dodge, 32. R. Schraven, 24. Z. Wunhym, 15. J. Iacobaccio
23P: 42. H. Blythe
In: R. Schraven, H. Blythe, D. Wyatt, Z. Wunhym, M. Kovacevic, J. Iacobaccio
Out: J. McDonald, J. Svarc
Northern Blues
B: 4. S. Russell, 13. C. O'Shea, 7. D. Buckley
HB: 16. M. Stavrou, 48. K. Jaksch, 62. B. Boekhorst
C: 72. S. Kerridge, 60. D. Cuningham, 8. L. Russell
HF: 49. D. Armfield, 14. L. Jones, 42. J. Pickett
F: 24. R. Palmer, 19. H. McKay, 1. T. Wilson
R: 15. A. Phillips, 45. D. Thomas, 67. C. Polson
Int: 21. C. Barrett, 6. G. Strachan, 31. P. Kerr, 3. K. Declase, 56. A. Gallucci, 12. Z. Ballard, 30. S. Bolger, 20. D. Stevens
23P: 25. K. Keppel
In: K. Declase, A. Phillips, Z. Ballard, R. Palmer, J. Pickett, C. Polson, K. Keppel, D. Thomas
Out: B. Smedts, N. Graham, J. Glass-McCasker, A. Silvagni
Glass-MaCasker obviously didn't get up after his concussion and facial injury last week. A pity. Good to see Palmer back. Hopefully he can play somewhat better than he did before he was hurt.
COBURG v. NORTHERN BLUES
Round 3 - 30/04/2017
10:45AM
Piranha Park
Coburg
B: 35. C. Holdsworth, 50. J. Reaper, 15. J. Iacobaccio
HB: 33. B. Bailey, 45. J. Owen, 40. J. El Moussalli
C: 49. R. Karpany, 24. Z. Wunhym, 32. R. Schraven
HF: 22. D. Wyatt, 41. M. Kovacevic, 23. J. McDonald
F: 21. N. Dodge, 31. R. Free, 46. J. Svarc
R: 44. C. Roberts, 26. L. Hunt, 13. T. Wallis
Int: 16. M. Betson, 52. C. Haberfield, 14. M. Ercolano, 62. J. Sandric, 58. S. Lowson, 59. B. Barton, 43. K. Brown, 18. M. Merlo, 27. L. Bunker, 51. C. McKay, 48. A. Rambaldi, 47. M. Conn, 54. C. McRorie
In: L. Hunt, N. Dodge, S. Lowson, M. Betson, M. Kovacevic, J. McDonald, B. Barton, J. Svarc, C. Holdsworth, C. McKay
Out: H. Blythe, M. Perry
Northern Blues
B: 22. C. McCabe, 18. B. Jordan, 78. M. Walson
HB: 6. G. Strachan, 30. S. Bolger, 3. K. Declase
C: 41. S. Glover, 12. Z. Ballard, 57. F. Pearce
HF: 53. H. Payne, 50. D. Gorringe, 9. J. Corboy
F: 21. C. Barrett, 29. B. Casley, 52. S. Fowler
R: 27. A. Milham, 51. J. Lamb, 11. T. Jones
Int: 39. A. Kur, 79. J. Duscher, 75. J. Rafferty, 28. J. Collins, 68. J. Mahon, 46. J. Bradley, 64. L. Collins, 17. S. Peet, 71. D. Costanzo, 23. C. Adams, 44. W. Krithararis
Daisy in the twos, surprise, surprise...
Daisy in the twos, surprise, surprise...
Surprise if he plays...
We lead 58-29.
Live streamed here.
http://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-118-0-0-0&sID=394702
Surprise if he plays...
He has a goal and dominating.
And just took a mark 20m out and for some reason, only known to himself, played on but did get it to Jones for a goal. 64-30.
Kerr shooting on his 3rd but missing. Looks a player.
We lead 58-29.
Live streamed here.
http://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-118-0-0-0&sID=394702
Cheers for the link, gonna give Coburg a hiding by the look of it.
Relaxed and let Coburg in for two late red time goals, which was disappointing, by we still lead by 35pts at half time, 78-43.
He has a goal and dominating.
Unfortunately it is only reinforcing that he's an exceptionally talented player who is at home with the VFL pace, but has lost the ability to keep with the big boys.
Patrick Kerr could well be in contention for a call up to replace Silvagni as the 3rd tall lead up forward.
Unfortunately it is only reinforcing that he's an exceptionally talented player who is at home with the VFL pace, but has lost the ability to keep with dominate the big boys.
EFA
Patrick Kerr could well be in contention for a call up to replace Silvagni as the 3rd tall lead up forward.
Has 2, should have had 3 to half time.
Patrick Kerr could well be in contention for a call up to replace Silvagni as the 3rd tall lead up forward.
Certainly wouldn't be the worst pick.
"Three brilliant contested marks: McKay, Kerr and now Jaksch. KJ gets his first! COB 63 NB 95. #WeMarchNorth #VickiClearyDay #PJVFL"
That sounds real good.
Jones has taken 3 hangers and kicked 2.
Up by 32 pts.
Watching the NB's. Seen enough, Kerr in to replace SOJ next week, assuming he's out injured. Such a natural forward the way he reads it and leads. Looks a beauty.
3/4 time. We lead 101-71
Northern Blues FCVerified account @NBluesFC 3m3 minutes ago
DISPOSALS: Thomas 25, Boekhorst 23, Kerridge 22, O'Shea 18, Wilson 17, Buckley 15, Stavrou 15. #WeMarchNorth #VickiClearyDay #PJVFL
Northern Blues FCVerified account @NBluesFC 4m4 minutes ago
More
GOALS: Armfield 2, Jones 2, Kerr 2, Boekhorst, Buckley, Cuningham, Gallucci, Jaksch, Kerridge, McKay, Phillips, Thomas. #WeMarchNorth
AFL Vic Development League 2017
Coburg 0.6 4.11 8.14 13.16 (94)
Northern Blues 1.6 3.10 6.15 10.21 (81)
GOALS:
Coburg: Lowson 2 McRorie 2 Ercolano 2 Wallis 2 Roberts Svarc Bunker Schraven McKay
Northern Blues: Fowler 5 Barrett 2 Milham Lamb Walson
BEST:
Coburg: Ercolano El Moussalli Brown Merlo Wunhym Lowson
Northern Blues: Fowler Adams Barrett Collins Jones Casley
Young Fowler, in his 2nd game of VFL footy, kicked 5, but the Blues kicked themselves out of the game.
I wonder if Gorringe played?
Look s like the bad kicking bug has hit the NB seniors as well. Maybe because it was Jones, McKay and Armfield all missing shots?
Coburg gets in down in their half and they kick a goal. That sounds so familiar.
52pts up.
McKay a strong mark again and kicks it to Kerr for his 3rd.
Look s like the bad kicking bug has hit the NB seniors as well. Maybe because it was Jones, McKay and Armfield all missing shots?
Coburg gets in down in their half and they kick a goal. That sounds so familiar.
Bit of a cross wind. Don't aim right goal post left of screen and you miss.
Brilliant run, side step on the boundary and wonderful vision by Boekhorst to set up Kerridge for a mark and goal.
Up by 63.
That has to be a record. Coburg had a shot after the siren at the end of every qtr for 3.1. they muffed the final one.
Won 141-79.
Northern Blues FCVerified account @NBluesFC 5m5 minutes ago
GOALS: Gallucci 3, Kerr 3, Armfield 2, Jones 2, Kerridge 2, McKay 2, Boekhorst, Buckley, Cuningham, Jaksch, Phillips, Stavrou, Thomas.
Northern Blues FCVerified account @NBluesFC 6m6 minutes ago
DISPOSALS: Thomas 30, Kerridge 30, Boekhorst 27, Wilson 24, Stavrou 20, O'Shea 20. #WeMarchNorth #VickiClearyDay #PJVFL
GOALS: Gallucci 3, Kerr 3, Armfield 2, Jones 2, Kerridge 2, McKay 2, Boekhorst, Buckley, Cuningham, Jaksch, Phillips, Stavrou, Thomas.
DISPOSALS: Thomas 30, Kerridge 30, Boekhorst 27, Wilson 24, Stavrou 20, O'Shea 20
Interesting reading.
Jones was very good - took so many speccies.
Stavrou will be a player of the future. McKay taking strong marks just needs to finish off his good work
Thomas BOG by a big margin. If young Jack is out injured will be interesting to see what happens.. but I'd go for Jones.
Put $5 on NB to win the flag this year and got $101 last week.
Was very happy with those odds considering the amount of senior players I thought our reserves would play this year.
Willy was the favorite behind last week game :o
Jones was very good - took so many speccies.
Stavrou will be a player of the future. McKay taking strong marks just needs to finish off his good work
Thomas BOG by a big margin. If young Jack is out injured will be interesting to see what happens.. but I'd go for Jones.
Jones, like Casboult, is a much better player as a forward/ruck than a straight up key forward. Tough to find a spot for him.
Jones was very good - took so many speccies.
Stavrou will be a player of the future. McKay taking strong marks just needs to finish off his good work
Thomas BOG by a big margin. If young Jack is out injured will be interesting to see what happens.. but I'd go for Jones.
Reckon vs his old club you can lock in Daisy....reckon SOSOS will miss..
Jones would come in for Weitering but Bolton reckons he will play...
Reckon vs his old club you can lock in Daisy....reckon SOSOS will miss..
Jones would come in for Weitering but Bolton reckons he will play...
I only have one change. Kerr for SOJ.
McKay can't be far away. Playing really well.
only changes to the team yesterday should be forced changes through injury - so Kerr or Jones for Jack maybe Weitering 'rested' but he's a tough kid....
Daisy stays in the 2s.
It is good to see a repeat good performance by NB. This is what we need, the players in the two's putting pressure on the players in the ones.
I only have one change. Kerr for SOJ.
McKay can't be far away. Playing really well.
Love to see Kerr play but reckon he might have to wait a bit longer to debut....
Love to see Kerr play but reckon he might have to wait a bit longer to debut....
Saw the first half and liked what I saw of Kerr. Looked very composed with nice skills. Jones also impressive and is definitely pressing for senior selection but would depend on injury atm.
Love to see Kerr play but reckon he might have to wait a bit longer to debut....
Probably would've with injuries but with SOJ out I see him as an ideal replacement.
Jones would be stiff not to come in. In form and by the looks would be a good match up for reg grundy when kruezer needs a chop out.
Love to see Kerr play but reckon he might have to wait a bit longer to debut....
Kerr must have really improved from his form in the Richmond practice match. I thought he showed a tonne of promise but got lost at times.
It would be quite a turnaround in our drafting if all our draft 2016 picks debuted this year.
Jones would be stiff not to come in. In form and by the looks would be a good match up for reg grundy when kruezer needs a chop out.
Jones has looked good at VFL level many times and not converted it into AFL level. I still think his promotion would be a waste of time.
Boekhorst seems to be quietly developing some solid VFL form. He's a type we need in the 1s if he can perform consistently. As good as the win was yesterday we don't look quick - missed Pickett's pace.
Jones would be stiff not to come in. In form and by the looks would be a good match up for reg grundy when kruezer needs a chop out.
Doubt he's kicking Casboult out of that role though.
only changes to the team yesterday should be forced changes through injury - so Kerr or Jones for Jack maybe Weitering 'rested' but he's a tough kid....
Daisy stays in the 2s.
Showing your bias now, gentleman Daisy was clearly BOG and set the tone for the whole team!
Having said that, if SoJ is the only change I think Jones gets a go ahead of Daisy.
Did Pickett play ?
Kerr must have really improved from his form in the Richmond practice match. I thought he showed a tonne of promise but got lost at times.
It would be quite a turnaround in our drafting if all our draft 2016 picks debuted this year.
Kerr's upside from what I saw in the last NB's game was as good as Charlie Curnows in terms of footy nous and smarts.....not big numbers in terms of possies yet
but he is an exciting future player IMO....maybe we need to be careful with both him and Harry and wait a bit longer...
Kerr's upside from what I saw in the last NB's game was as good as Charlie Curnows in terms of footy nous and smarts.....not big numbers in terms of possies yet
but he is an exciting future player IMO....maybe we need to be careful with both him and Harry and wait a bit longer...
Totally agree about being patient with both Kerr and McKay. I just get the feeling that if Silvagni misses, they might be more likely to go 'like for like' in terms of role, age, youthful experience etc. Kerr's build and movement look far more suited to the SOJ role than McKay and I'd be worried that Levi and Jones might be trying to pack mark the same ball.
We are now starting to debate multiple inform replacements for injured individuals!! Nice feeling.
Did Pickett play ?
He was on the ground, yes. Whether he played is questionable at best.
Would love to see Kerr or McKay get a game but if we're after a flanker we're going to go for Daisy, Boekhorst or Kerridge most likely.
Pickett would be my pick. We do look very one paced without him - even though he does some dodgey things.
He was on the ground, yes. Whether he played is questionable at best.
A bit harsh I think. Pickett had moments and from the snippets I saw looked like he was putting In. Didn't find enough of it though and a player of his quality needs to take the game by the scruff of the neck
Quick question... did Wayne Carey die and start inhabiting Liam Jones's body?
Highlights:
https://t.co/TWEsNIWa6u
http://northernbluesfc.com.au/?p=4640
Best:
Northern Blues: Jones, Boekhorst, Stavrou, Thomas, Kerr, Wilson
Interesting to note BB named ahead of DT. Interesting given DT had 6 goal assists.
I only saw a highlight package of all of our goals, but Thomas was everywhere on it.
For that he deserves a bit more respect from many of his detractors.
Any player who has won an afl premiership, was considered one of the games elite mids for a little while, is on big money and then goes down to the vfl once, and tears that level up straight away, even though he could play out the year, without earning his cash and put it all behind him deserves a bit more respect.
Sure, people might claim he only wants to trigger his extension, but I think he'd genuinely be hurt by how little footy he's produced (based on how he goes about it) and has a bit more pride in himself and actually wants to achieve something rather than fizzling out into nothing.
I only saw a highlight package of all of our goals, but Thomas was everywhere on it.
For that he deserves a bit more respect from many of his detractors.
Any player who has won an afl premiership, was considered one of the games elite mids for a little while, is on big money and then goes down to the vfl once, and tears that level up straight away, even though he could play out the year, without earning his cash and put it all behind him deserves a bit more respect.
Sure, people might claim he only wants to trigger his extension, but I think he'd genuinely be hurt by how little footy he's produced (based on how he goes about it) and has a bit more pride in himself and actually wants to achieve something rather than fizzling out into nothing.
I would disagree that a good game at vfl level changes anything. I'll wait til he gets 30 with 6 assists in the AFL.
I only saw a highlight package of all of our goals, but Thomas was everywhere on it.
For that he deserves a bit more respect from many of his detractors.
Any player who has won an afl premiership, was considered one of the games elite mids for a little while, is on big money and then goes down to the vfl once, and tears that level up straight away, even though he could play out the year, without earning his cash and put it all behind him deserves a bit more respect.
Sure, people might claim he only wants to trigger his extension, but I think he'd genuinely be hurt by how little footy he's produced (based on how he goes about it) and has a bit more pride in himself and actually wants to achieve something rather than fizzling out into nothing.
He 'tore it up' against Coburg ffs.
He has shown time and time again now that he (or his body) cannot cut it at the top level. He might be wanting to do better but the writing is all over the wall.
What he did 4 or 5 or 6 years ago at Collingwood counts for nada now.
It is that simple.
Unfortunately it is only reinforcing that he's an exceptionally talented player who is at home with the VFL pace, but has lost the ability to keep with the big boys.
.
I repeat.
He 'tore it up' against Coburg ffs.
He has shown time and time again now that he (or his body) cannot cut it at the top level. He might be wanting to do better but the writing is all over the wall.
What he did 4 or 5 or 6 years ago at Collingwood counts for nada now.
It is that simple.
No doubt Daisy was BoG at Coburg.
BB has come out publicly and stated the team is picked on form and opportunity, if SoJ goes down that is the opportunity. Perhaps the only other player justifying an opportunity is Jones.
I've read a lot on this forum about culture, getting the culture right, developing a winning culture.
Well BB will have to be very brave not to pick players who show form because it sends the exact wrong message to the kids if you want to develop a winning culture.
The message you want to send to the playing list is work hard and with the right attitude and your are in, no matter if you are the in captaincy group or the kindergarten.
Is the coach a man of his word, Daisy's game has this under the spotlight? The media know that, which is why they made a big deal about Daisy's game on two out of three commercial TV news channels. They virtually never offer coverage of VFL games.
Perhaps in the future BB will be more guarded with his words, but if he wanted to send a message about culture, now is the perfect time to do it!
Nobody can cherry pick when to honour a declaration, if you do that you lose respect and AFL playing and coaching is built on respect.
one good game in the 2s doesn't get you automatic selection in the 1s.
The seniors had a great win - everyone contributed - and usually there would be no changes bar injury.
If SOJ injured, is Daisy a decent swap? I say no, give Kerr a crack or Jones (the latter as a swingman).
He 'tore it up' against Coburg ffs.
He has shown time and time again now that he (or his body) cannot cut it at the top level. He might be wanting to do better but the writing is all over the wall.
What he did 4 or 5 or 6 years ago at Collingwood counts for nada now.
It is that simple.
He doesn't have to be playing senior football to earn respect.
Just like you dont have to be an A grader to win respect.
Or do you have to have the surname Silvagni to get a pat on the back these days??
Okay so if Daisy plays enough games to trigger an extension, is it automatically on the same $?
Okay so if Daisy plays enough games to trigger an extension, is it automatically on the same $?
I understand that the extra year, if triggered, is around 50% of his current pay packet.
Thomas, or at least his agent, has already stated that he'll play for less money next season so reading between the lines he's ready and willing to commit to the club until his playing days are done.
It's the first time I can ever remember him being dropped in his 200 games and it would have hurt. if he can regain anything like his best form he would be an invaluable asset to the senior side while we have so many kids finding their way.
He's the same age as Murphy, if his body holds up there's no reason why he hasn't got another three years in him and in my opinion he's a rough chance to play in our next Premiership side.
I understand that the extra year, if triggered, is around 50% of his current pay packet.
Do you have any links to that? Because I find that to be extraordinary. He came here after a pay packet and can't imagine why he would have a trigger that said if he is playing football good enough for 15 games in his last year we get him for 1/2 the next year.
If he has resigned it recently to change the value of the trigger, that could be a different matter.
The rubbish about the respect he "deserves"... He deserves the respect one human gives another, but outside of that Carlton supporters owe him absolutely NOTHING. He has absolutely impacted our ability to bring in other players due to the size of his contract.
It is okay, it is football, he signed the contract and is entitled to the cash.. that is the way it works... But being on our list has comfortably been a negative in regards to our list management and I can't wait to see the back of him.
Talk about he must be picked because of culture etc.
Well it is okay to say that a player on 700k a year has to be doing more to get a game than Charlie Curnow does. That he must be demanding games with his performances. I remember Nicky Winmar coming back through the 2s many years ago and picking up over 50 possessions.
Players in the top 5% of paid AFL professionals need to play better than he does.
I would happily see him never play another senior game
The rubbish about the respect he "deserves"... He deserves the respect one human gives another, but outside of that Carlton supporters owe him absolutely NOTHING. He has absolutely impacted our ability to bring in other players due to the size of his contract.
Some criticism is fair enough but some is far fetched.
The only top footballer who has chosen to come to Carlton in the last 10 years has been Sam Docherty, given that very few Carlton supporters regard Thomas as a top footballer.
During that time Jacobs, Waite, Grigg, Betts, Henderson and Tuohy have walked and Gibbs has tried to.
But the reason we can't attract a Dangerfield or Franklin to the club is down to the size Dale Thomas' contract?
Really?
I am saying, that money talks... In this time of professional football it is a fact.
Paying Daisy his salary mad him 1 of the top 2-3 highest paid players at the club.
That certainly impacted our salary cap, it is ridiculous to image it doesn't. It is fairly simple mathematics.
Of course we will need other elements to get a player in, but Betts wanted less than Thomas was offered..
If Thomas was on 250k a year throughout his years at the club, that would have freed up what about 450-500k a year? The impact to our list would be taking a spot on the list and nothing else.
So having a player on 250k not performing doesn't impact the list, but you can only afford to pay x number of players an A grade salary, which is what he has been paid and yes that impacts our ability to bring another one in.
We have to pay 95% of the salary cap regsrdless, so given the state of our list and our woeful results over the last decade it's fair to say that we've had plenty of overpaid and underperformed players apart from Thomas.
I've been disappointed in him along with the rest but I can't see how bagging the crap out of him and booing him at matches is going to help him get to where we'd surely all like him to be.
I was rapt to see him have a big game yesterday and I can't for the life of me understand why any Carlton supporter wants to see him fail.
I am saying, that money talks... In this time of professional football it is a fact.
Paying Daisy his salary mad him 1 of the top 2-3 highest paid players at the club.
That certainly impacted our salary cap, it is ridiculous to image it doesn't. It is fairly simple mathematics.
Of course we will need other elements to get a player in, but Betts wanted less than Thomas was offered..
If Thomas was on 250k a year throughout his years at the club, that would have freed up what about 450-500k a year? The impact to our list would be taking a spot on the list and nothing else.
So having a player on 250k not performing doesn't impact the list, but you can only afford to pay x number of players an A grade salary, which is what he has been paid and yes that impacts our ability to bring another one in.
Not sure were this idea comes from, that you can pay players what you like, they have a players union and the CBA!
If Thomas was on $250K at his age and experience we'd be in big trouble with both the AFL and AFLPA, his base wage is about $370K for that many years of AFL service.
Do you have any links to that? Because I find that to be extraordinary. He came here after a pay packet and can't imagine why he would have a trigger that said if he is playing football good enough for 15 games in his last year we get him for 1/2 the next year.
It's been widely discussed in the football media months ago, before the season even started.
The Daisy haters started kicking him before the JLT series even got underway, and then when he failed to dominate in the JLT they went up a level! There is so much rhetoric about him, I suspect if he won a Brownlow they'd claim it was rigged!
But lets face it, we still have lots of posters bagging Murphy despite his stellar start to the season, so I suppose bagging players has become the new black!
On the radio at the weekend Harf made a good point, he couldn't understand Carlton fans bagging Murphy for two clangers out of 30+ disposals. He posed the question, why are they bagging Murphy when Docherty and Simpson are playing at lower efficiency? It's a tell!
Booing Daisy is every bit as undesirable as the booing Ablett Jnr received at the weekend. These blokes aren't knobs who gobbed off and dribbled crap like Goodes, or snippers like Ziebell. They are just hard working footballers who generally go about their business quietly and without fanfare.
No, the simple truth (again) is that Daisy fails, consistently, to impact a senior AFL match.
Care to name a game or two when he was in our best 2 or 3. ok then, try best 6 in the last season or four?
What he once was as a player and what he is today are world's apart. Arguably, a few galaxies.
Why you cannot grasp that little fact is quite beyond me. :o :o
No, the simple truth (again) is that Daisy fails, consistently, to impact a senior AFL match.
Care to name a game or two when he was in our best 2 or 3. ok then, try best 6 in the last season or four?
What he once was as a player and what he is today are world's apart. Arguably, a few galaxies.
Why you cannot grasp that little fact is quite beyond me. :o :o
What you fail to grasp is that his form, his value to the team and his club (Which by the way is Carlton not Collingwood), are not related to either his wage or his past abilities.
All that counts is his most recent effort and his next effort! If he starts taking short steps, isn't working hard or starts potting team-mates then he's done, but he isn't.
Whether he is earning $1M or $370K, when he plays to his current ability he is still clearly in our best 22.
Despite the loss of leg speed and kicking, Daisy's probably the equal of Gibbs at stoppages, which makes him a better stoppage option than Kerridge, E.Curnow, Boekhorst, Armfield, Buckley or Graham.
He runs every bit as hard as anyone in the team, Simpson, Murphy and Kreuzer included.
He shepherds frequently only possibly bettered by Kreuzer.
He chases harder than some if not most of the team, despite many of them being clearly faster across the ground he often passes them in the chase! That irony is not lost on many of us, especially when single minded supporters bag Daisy for being too slow and ignore the faster kid he overtakes in the chase!
Daisy knows where to be and when to be there, he is every bit as valuable to Carlton now as Brock McLean was when he was also bagged by supporters as being done and dusted before he even played a senior game.
You know he is number 39 LP don't you...
You know he is number 39 LP don't you...
Yes, but I won't bend down to Mathieson Mentalities, or as I prefer to call them "The Simpleton Truth!"
Do you have any links to that? Because I find that to be extraordinary. He came here after a pay packet and can't imagine why he would have a trigger that said if he is playing football good enough for 15 games in his last year we get him for 1/2 the next year.
From Jake Niall, Fox Sports, 27 March 2017:
While Thomas has a trigger — believed to be 15 games — that would guarantee him a substantial contract, about half of this year’s $700,000-plus, his management has spoken to the Blues about a possible deal that can avert a weekly discussion about his place in the side.
Perhaps Daisy isn't as mercenary as folk think. Still, $350,000 odd isn't a bad pay packet for a bloke who is likely to be a depth player.
It's been widely discussed in the football media months ago, before the season even started.
The Daisy haters started kicking him before the JLT series even got underway, and then when he failed to dominate in the JLT they went up a level! There is so much rhetoric about him, I suspect if he won a Brownlow they'd claim it was rigged!
But lets face it, we still have lots of posters bagging Murphy despite his stellar start to the season, so I suppose bagging players has become the new black!
On the radio at the weekend Harf made a good point, he couldn't understand Carlton fans bagging Murphy for two clangers out of 30+ disposals. He posed the question, why are they bagging Murphy when Docherty and Simpson are playing at lower efficiency? It's a tell!
Booing Daisy is every bit as undesirable as the booing Ablett Jnr received at the weekend. These blokes aren't knobs who gobbed off and dribbled crap like Goodes, or snippers like Ziebell. They are just hard working footballers who generally go about their business quietly and without fanfare.
What part of the crowd are you sitting in?
I've never heard the crowd boo either daisy or certainly not Murphy. I point out our captain won't tackle and actively runs away from defensive situations which makes it very hard to defend him.
Daisy gets very few possessions and scrubs quite a few simple kicks which is why he got dropped to the VFL. There is no conspiracy. He's not played as well as his younger and less experienced teammates.
He cops criticism because he's paid 7 times more than the guy who is out perfoming him which seems fair enough. I don't see him putting his hand up to take a pay cut to fit more/better players into our salary cap which is what hawks and cats players did for years.
Defend him if you like but be realistic about others right to criticise the bloke.
From Jake Niall, Fox Sports, 27 March 2017:
Perhaps Daisy isn't as mercenary as folk think. Still, $350,000 odd isn't a bad pay packet for a bloke who is likely to be a depth player.
Gee wish I had that base salary O0
Look I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and like with Hendo in the early days being compared to Fev, the signing of Daisy will always be linked to the ill-fated signing of MM and the loss of Eddie Betts. It's just the way it is. Unless he absolutely kills it and drags us over the line in numerous games this year, that perception of him, that he's been a waste of $ with us, will not change. It's unfortunate but it's just the way it is.
I'd be busting my gut in the 2's to get a few more years on the 'lowly' amount of $350k too and whilst I'm sure he is genuinely a competitive person that will always put in 100%, the question is this - do we want him on the list? What does he add to our list?
From Jake Niall, Fox Sports, 27 March 2017:
Perhaps Daisy isn't as mercenary as folk think. Still, $350,000 odd isn't a bad pay packet for a bloke who is likely to be a depth player.
What would Armfield be getting paid, or Jones, or Jaksch?
There's no question that Thomas hasn't delivered what we hoped he would or what his contract suggested he might, but as LP has posted all that matters is whether he's capable of getting a game on merit.
I think that he is, and that his experience and know how will be of considerable value to our young side, he's after all the only player at the club who has tasted success at senior level.
I'm happy to see what pans out, if he can force his way back into the side and play some good football all power to him, if his career fizzles out this season I'm sure it won't be for a lack of effort on his part.
What you fail to grasp is that his form, his value to the team and his club (Which by the way is Carlton not Collingwood), are not related to either his wage or his past abilities.
All that counts is his most recent effort and his next effort! If he starts taking short steps, isn't working hard or starts potting team-mates then he's done, but he isn't.
Whether he is earning $1M or $370K, when he plays to his current ability he is still clearly in our best 22.
Despite the loss of leg speed and kicking, Daisy's probably the equal of Gibbs at stoppages, which makes him a better stoppage option than Kerridge, E.Curnow, Boekhorst, Armfield, Buckley or Graham.
He runs every bit as hard as anyone in the team, Simpson, Murphy and Kreuzer included.
He shepherds frequently only possibly bettered by Kreuzer.
He chases harder than some if not most of the team, despite many of them being clearly faster across the ground he often passes them in the chase! That irony is not lost on many of us, especially when single minded supporters bag Daisy for being too slow and ignore the faster kid he overtakes in the chase!
Daisy knows where to be and when to be there, he is every bit as valuable to Carlton now as Brock McLean was when he was also bagged by supporters as being done and dusted before he even played a senior game.
Like your work LP but cant agree with you on this one......I'd have Ed Curnow ahead of him everyday of the work and I dont see what you see in terms of tackling, chasing, running, and stoppage work.
I think we look better without him in the team and players like Graham(who I am no fan of either) got the opportunity vs the Swans, was reasonable and got some development into his game by playing ahead of Daisy which is more valuable to our future.
Not saying the intent isnt there but I dont see his body doing the things it did, kicking on his left seems non existant and on his right he would be lucky to make 40m with his best kick.....
I think he should do what Bartel did and hang up the boots with his dignity still intact, pursue coaching or media and make this year his last...
What part of the crowd are you sitting in?
I've never heard the crowd boo either daisy or certainly not Murphy. I point out our captain won't tackle and actively runs away from defensive situations which makes it very hard to defend him.
Daisy gets very few possessions and scrubs quite a few simple kicks which is why he got dropped to the VFL. There is no conspiracy. He's not played as well as his younger and less experienced teammates.
He cops criticism because he's paid 7 times more than the guy who is out perfoming him which seems fair enough. I don't see him putting his hand up to take a pay cut to fit more/better players into our salary cap which is what hawks and cats players did for years.
Defend him if you like but be realistic about others right to criticise the bloke.
GC game he got booed at the intro and at most contests he attempted and the ones he failed he copped a real pasting.....very embarrassing to see our supporters carry on like that.
There is some real hate of the man and his Collingwood background, and being a Malthouse love child on big money have fuelled it....
GC game he got booed at the intro and at most contests he attempted and the ones he failed he copped a real pasting.....very embarrassing to see our supporters carry on like that.
There is some real hate of the man and his Collingwood background, and being a Malthouse love child on big money have fuelled it....
He's been on a hiding to nothing ever since he came to the club really, I honestly feel for the bloke.
My sister is a 50 plus year member and she's almost obsessed about him, she blames him for just about everything that's gone wrong at the club in recent times.
She's convinced that he's the reason that Eddie Betts left and nothing anyone can say to her will change her mind.
Not sure were this idea comes from, that you can pay players what you like, they have a players union and the CBA!
If Thomas was on $250K at his age and experience we'd be in big trouble with both the AFL and AFLPA, his base wage is about $370K for that many years of AFL service.
Unless the rules have changed
You have absolutely just made that up
If they have I apologise but I have seen nothing that indicates what you are saying is true
Unless the rules have changed
You have absolutely just made that up
If they have I apologise but I have seen nothing that indicates what you are saying is true
I can diagnose your problem, you're suffering Daisy Blindness!
He's been on a hiding to nothing ever since he came to the club really, I honestly feel for the bloke.
My sister is a 50 plus year member and she's almost obsessed about him, she blames him for just about everything that's gone wrong at the club in recent times.
She's convinced that he's the reason that Eddie Betts left and nothing anyone can say to her will change her mind.
She must post on here then ;D, what's her handle ;D?
She must post on here then ;D, what's her handle ;D?
Got quite a few of them i think.
Do you have any links to that? Because I find that to be extraordinary. He came here after a pay packet and can't imagine why he would have a trigger that said if he is playing football good enough for 15 games in his last year we get him for 1/2 the next year.
If he has resigned it recently to change the value of the trigger, that could be a different matter.
The rubbish about the respect he "deserves"... He deserves the respect one human gives another, but outside of that Carlton supporters owe him absolutely NOTHING. He has absolutely impacted our ability to bring in other players due to the size of his contract.
It is okay, it is football, he signed the contract and is entitled to the cash.. that is the way it works... But being on our list has comfortably been a negative in regards to our list management and I can't wait to see the back of him.
Talk about he must be picked because of culture etc.
Well it is okay to say that a player on 700k a year has to be doing more to get a game than Charlie Curnow does. That he must be demanding games with his performances. I remember Nicky Winmar coming back through the 2s many years ago and picking up over 50 possessions.
Players in the top 5% of paid AFL professionals need to play better than he does.
I would happily see him never play another senior game
You said it. He's been contracted and given the cash. He is on the list.
All that matters from this point is if his performance is at or better than the alternatives. This includes leadership, on-field performance, effort and following instructions/directions.
Given how poor our team structure was against Port when we had so many kids in the team, i think the ability to know where you are supposed to be at any given time, and the desire to do the hard running to get there, is severely underrated.
You, along with many others, have made it clear your feelings on Daisy and nothing he can do will change that. So lets just leave it there.
If Daisy agrees to get similar money as Billie Smedts for two years I would keep him for depth
Unless the rules have changed
You have absolutely just made that up
If they have I apologise but I have seen nothing that indicates what you are saying is true
Yeah I don't know of any different conditions in the CBA that is specific to older/longer serving players.
There are 4 minimum pay categories.
1 - Base and Senior match payments
2 - First Year players
3 - Second Year players
4 - Rookie Listed Players
On Daisy's 15 games to a contract extension just to clear something up:
I believe this was a caveat on his original contract, to ensure that if his body didn't recover as expected, we could end the contract a year earlier and that the number of games was quite a lot higher over the journey.
It wasnt to do with his "final season".
My thinking is that had he not had his shoulder stuffed against Richmond two years ago, this would have been a moot point by now, and that he would have already met the conditions to get his 5th year.
I also fully expect that we have been front loading our big contracts and that our 95% of our salary cap has well and truly paid for Daisy by now.
Just on Daisy, I was a real hater, blamed him for every loss we had I reckon! I've changed now though and the reason why is that I now trust our coaches and match committee to play the guys that deserve a game and not play the ones that don't, never had that trust when Malthouse was there.
I came to the conclusion, (belatetedly!) , that the coaches can see the mistake he makes as well as I can but if they keep picking him he must be doing the things on gameday and on the training track that they are asking of him, when he doesn't they won't pick him.
It's a great feeling to have trust again in your club to do the right things.
On Daisy's 15 games to a contract extension just to clear something up:
I believe this was a caveat on his original contract, to ensure that if his body didn't recover as expected, we could end the contract a year earlier and that the number of games was quite a lot higher over the journey.
It wasnt to do with his "final season".
My thinking is that had he not had his shoulder stuffed against Richmond two years ago, this would have been a moot point by now, and that he would have already met the conditions to get his 5th year.
I also fully expect that we have been front loading our big contracts and that our 95% of our salary cap has well and truly paid for Daisy by now.
Yes, I agree Thry, the "15 game" stuff and the "1/2 wage" is just media speculation that they have all picked up and ran with.
As an experiment I went back through the media reports over the last four or five years to find Daisy's wage has steadily grown, it seems the more injuries and problems he had the more we paid him. Lucky bastard! ;D
If I recall correctly what his manager said was that the extension year wage of Daisy's contract would be considerably less than the main years, and that he had to meet performance criteria to qualify for the last year. His manager never mentioned any figures, or if the criteria was meet or yet to be meet, if he had it would have effectively meant the end of his career as a player manager!
Just on Daisy, I was a real hater, blamed him for every loss we had I reckon! I've changed now though and the reason why is that I now trust our coaches and match committee to play the guys that deserve a game and not play the ones that don't, never had that trust when Malthouse was there.
I came to the conclusion, (belatetedly!) , that the coaches can see the mistake he makes as well as I can but if they keep picking him he must be doing the things on gameday and on the training track that they are asking of him, when he doesn't they won't pick him.
It's a great feeling to have trust again in your club to do the right things.
So you're Blueforlife's sister!!!
It's a great feeling to have trust again in your club to do the right things.
Great post.
It's pretty easy to focus on the negatives, and a negative seems to account for ten or more positives.
I'm very guilty of the same myself, especially when watching someone like Adam Goodes or Lindsay Thomas stage for a free kick, or Ziebell and Hodge smash opponents. All their other efforts are quickly forgotten! ;D
Great post.
It's pretty easy to focus on the negatives, and a negative seems to account for ten or more positives.
I'm very guilty of the same myself, especially when watching someone like Adam Goodes or Lindsay Thomas stage for a free kick, or Ziebell and Hodge smash opponents. All their other efforts are quickly forgotten! ;D
If Ziebell or Hodge wore Navy Blue we'd all be in raptures about how tough they were and what leadership they showed, our leaders (except Cripps) are constantly under the pump for being introverted and soft.
Craig Hutchinson on FC confidently suggested Daisy wont get his 15 games and wont be at the club next season.....
Craig Hutchinson on FC confidently suggested Daisy wont get his 15 games and wont be at the club next season.....
Has that sack of crape ever got anything right?
The senior side really struggled for leadership and cohesion in Daisy's absence.
Craig Hutchinson on FC confidently suggested Daisy wont get his 15 games and wont be at the club next season.....
Hopefully.
(http://i.imgur.com/JPGdjcw.png)
Some interesting statistics.
After 3 pages of arguing about Thomas and his contract any chance of talking about the VFL game and how other players performed. Or has that been moved to another thread ?
After 3 pages of arguing about Thomas and his contract any chance of talking about the VFL game and how other players performed. Or has that been moved to another thread ?
I thought some of the other players were almost as good as Daisy Thomas.
Sorry, couldn't resist! ;D
Looking at the statistics and specifically at small/mids who might come in for the injured fisher, there is 1 column i found very handy.
Tackles.
Daisy 4
Boekhorst 0
Pickett 0
Armfield 0
Both Daisy and Boeky had 30+ touches each and looked to have dominated.
Pickett and Army managed only 25 between them.
You'd have to back Daisy over Boeky for that column alone i think. Most agree Boeky needs to work on his defensive side of the game and it appears there is still more work required.
Looking at the statistics and specifically at small/mids who might come in for the injured fisher, there is 1 column i found very handy.
Tackles.
Daisy 4
Boekhorst 0
Pickett 0
Armfield 0
Both Daisy and Boeky had 30+ touches each and looked to have dominated.
Pickett and Army managed only 25 between them.
You'd have to back Daisy over Boeky for that column alone i think. Most agree Boeky needs to work on his defensive side of the game and it appears there is still more work required.
If Picket wasn't injured that stat is very disappointing
http://m.carltonfc.com.au/news/2017-05-02/vfl-player-review-round-3
Leadership comes in many forms.
Perhaps sacrificing your own game at senior level, playing a variety of different roles, and ensuring the team does well at the expense of one's own game is more worthwhile than people think.
http://m.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-05-02/vfl-highlights-round-3
The Marchbank video (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-05-02/marchbank-talks-rising-star-nomination) reinforces Fraser's game assessment.
Also have a look at the Jones video (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-05-02/jones-adding-strings-to-his-bow), this bloke is maturing and he's got great potential.
This is a great situation for BB, selection is about to become a headache for the first time in a decade. All he really needs to do is stay honest and true to his mantra, by rewarding effort when opportunity arises.
Pickett is going from bad to worse - hope it turns around for him soon - he is good enough. Prefer if he plays on the wing like his junior days..he is not so much a forward pocket
The Marchbank video (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-05-02/marchbank-talks-rising-star-nomination) reinforces Fraser's game assessment.
Also have a look at the Jones video (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-05-02/jones-adding-strings-to-his-bow), this bloke is maturing and he's got great potential.
This is a great situation for BB, selection is about to become a headache for the first time in a decade. All he really needs to do is stay honest and true to his mantra, by rewarding effort when opportunity arises.
That's the kind of headache coaches want!
It seems that Jones has really responded well to being challenged to play roles that he's not used to/familiar with. Perhaps it could save his career. Great story if it does and good intuition by our development coaches.
Pickett is going from bad to worse - hope it turns around for him soon - he is good enough. Prefer if he plays on the wing like his junior days..he is not so much a forward pocket
Yep, some blokes just have to have the contest in front of them, they really struggle when the threat comes from behind, Pickett might be one of them!
Has that sack of crape ever got anything right?
He got it right in business....Is the media arm of the AFL with his company Crocmedia, so he has the channels to voice his crape....
Doesnt forget anyone either, if you have crossed Hutchy over the years and Crocmedia are your new bosses
then he wont be taking prisoners..
That's the kind of headache coaches want!
It seems that Jones has really responded well to being challenged to play roles that he's not used to/familiar with. Perhaps it could save his career. Great story if it does and good intuition by our development coaches.
he seems in a really, really good space/place.....good luck to him.
Looking at the statistics and specifically at small/mids who might come in for the injured fisher, there is 1 column i found very handy.
Tackles.
Daisy 4
Boekhorst 0
Pickett 0
Armfield 0
Both Daisy and Boeky had 30+ touches each and looked to have dominated.
Pickett and Army managed only 25 between them.
You'd have to back Daisy over Boeky for that column alone i think. Most agree Boeky needs to work on his defensive side of the game and it appears there is still more work required.
But Boekhorst is much quicker than Daisy and hasn't got a $350,000 contract extension hanging over his head.
That's the kind of headache coaches want!
It seems that Jones has really responded well to being challenged to play roles that he's not used to/familiar with. Perhaps it could save his career. Great story if it does and good intuition by our development coaches.
Really agree with this, David. I, too, hope he is rewarded for his form and attitude. Though unlikely to happen, I'd love to see him as SOJs replacement against Rottingwood. Playing as the third tall would give Rottingwood a huge headache.
I'm still to be convinced by Boeky tbh despite his stats. Is capable of producing some nice footy but always looks a little on the flakey side to me. Be interested to see if gets selected and how he goes.
I'm still to be convinced by Boeky tbh despite his stats. Is capable of producing some nice footy but always looks a little on the flakey side to me. Be interested to see if gets selected and how he goes.
I'm not sure if a replay of VFL is available to watch, but it would be worthwhile watching it. Boekhorst wasn't really winning his own ball but he did well when given the pill by the likes of Thomas, Armfield, Kerridge, Jones and Wilson. He is really benefiting from Jones' increased level of inside contesting, if Boekhorst can find an outside role in the AFL side he might do OK so I wouldn't write him off just yet.
Who knows, he might be able to do a Jones and change his ways!
I'm really buoyed by what I see as an obvious cultural change in our player development and NBs relationship.
I'm still to be convinced by Boeky tbh despite his stats. Is capable of producing some nice footy but always looks a little on the flakey side to me. Be interested to see if gets selected and how he goes.
Agree...if you are going to be an outside receiver type player only then you have to be A grade at what you do and he isnt.....
I'm not sure if a replay of VFL is available to watch, but it would be worthwhile watching it. Boekhorst wasn't really winning his own ball but he did well when given the pill by the likes of Thomas, Armfield, Kerridge, Jones and Wilson. He is really benefiting from Jones' increased level of inside contesting, if Boekhorst can find an outside role in the AFL side he might do OK so I wouldn't write him off just yet.
Who knows, he might be able to do a Jones and change his ways!
I'm really buoyed by what I see as an obvious cultural change in our player development and NBs relationship.
There is a quarter by quarter replay on the CFC website.
There is a quarter by quarter replay on the CFC website.
Thanks DJC - I'll try and find time to have a look.
Agree...if you are going to be an outside receiver type player only then you have to be A grade at what you do and he isnt.....
In fairness to Boekhorst, the first part of being functional as a outside receiver is getting to the contest, at the moment a lot of our kids don't do that consistently.
Boekhorst was certainly getting to contests at the weekend, perhaps some of that is resulting from being surrounded and pushed by the likes of Kerridge, Thomas and Armfield.
But Boekhorst is much quicker than Daisy and hasn't got a $350,000 contract extension hanging over his head.
Neither of these things should be reasons to play one player ahead of another IMHO.
Its all about the best person for the job irrespective of these factors.
Boekhorst is someone who I would like to see exposed to senior football again over an extended period of time, to see if his time in the game has taught him what he needs to know.
If not, we can part ways with him.
I have arrived at Daisy's best case scenario with us. I think its best for him, that he doesn't make his trigger clause irrespective of how he plays, and that we then negotiate a contract where he is extended anyway. It will be the only way for fans to accept Daisy. Until that happens the pressure will continue, and i have a feeling that we have already made up our minds as to whether or not Daisy will still be at Carlton next season anyway.
So you're Blueforlife's sister!!!
Not quite, just guilty of the same bias.
But Boekhorst is much quicker than Daisy and hasn't got a $350,000 contract extension hanging over his head.
If you are picking a side based on pure leg speed
or
Based on contracts
Then you are picking the side wrong.
If you are picking a side based on pure leg speed
or
Based on contracts
Then you are picking the side wrong.
Neither. That's too simplistic. They are simply a couple of factors that may weigh in Boekhorst's favour. Just a simple comparison exercise. If Cuningham had played much better against Coburg, he'd be in the mix to replace ZF. Against Sydney we had the youth to senior/experienced player balance just about right, many pundits agree. We're building a new side with youth a focus (not THE focus, A focus) so you'd reasonably expect if ZF doesn't come up, a zippy youngster could be a logical choice. But maybe we want another experienced player instead considering the competition? Who knows? Just thoughts. Buckley might get the nod, he'd have to be considered. We'll know in a few hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_w2zyK5m0&feature=youtu.be
Full match replay for anyone who needs a footy "fix".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE_w2zyK5m0&feature=youtu.be
Full match replay for anyone who needs a footy "fix".
A good watch. I watched it again last night. Jones and Daisy really were the standouts. Liked the progress from Kerr as well.