So the year is nearly done, what can we take out this season. Ignoring trades and could have beens, what are your thoughts of our 2017 season.
For me we've had some positives, but my biggest issue is a worry.
We've cooked Weitering, the kid looked good enough to be superstar, and I realise most players get the 2nd year blues, but we've cooked him. I'm not sure he can recover from what we've done to his confidence and game. He's gone from a Rising Star attacking intercept player to a stay at home and mind your opponent dogs body!
It looks like we've turned the the next Harry Taylor into a new Simon White!
It's hard enough to make it as an AFL player, without the club you play for working against you!
Results aside we are just playing ugly crap football.
I feel this year was always going to be a "development" year. Five rising stars and unearthing SPS, Williamson, ACOS, Jones, Big H, Pickett have also been more positive than negative.
we need mids, mids and mids...
we need mids, mids and mids...
and some more mids.
we need mids, mids and mids...
Tough A grade mids
And some goal kickers.
And to get rid of more scrubbers from our list.
I think it is mids all around.
Having much better footballers than Graham, Smedts, Boekhurts, Kerridge using the football would make the world of difference.
2017 was definitely a development year where we had a focus on defensive structures, improving kicking skills and getting game time into the younger players.
But this came at a cost - not taking risks slowed our game down to the point where it made life near impossible to move the ball effectively to our forwards and at times playing too many young bodies that were too easily outmuscled by stronger teams. This has clearly taken its toll and our injury list is curtailing progress - both the players that are sitting out and those that are taking the field but who are clearly a bit banged up and not 100%.
My hope for pre-season and 2018 isn't just the new draftees we bring in, but how we evolve our game plan to incorporate a greater focus on attacking as the young players get smarter, stronger and faster.
The day will come when Cripps rips it out of contest, handpasses to SPS who bolts through the centre and kicks a beautifully weighted kick that allows Curnow to fly for a huge mark and kick a goal. And it will be glorious.
I think it is mids all around.
Having much better footballers than Graham, Smedts, Boekhurts, Kerridge using the football would make the world of difference.
Agree 100%. We need to significantly upgrade on these guys for starters. They are just not good enough imo.
I think it is mids all around.
Having much better footballers than Graham, Smedts, Boekhurts, Kerridge using the football would make the world of difference.
Yep basically that. Can't have these guys as our midfield depth/fringe. To be a solid AFL mid you have to be able to win your own ball and have good disposal as a minimum, unfortunately those guys all lack in at least one of those aspects if not both.
As a team I did not expect much, felt it was always another development year. Bolts will move to the next stage of development of the team and game plan and try to be more attacking after this year was spent on defensive structures. This time next year will be interesting.
And some goal kickers.
And to get rid of more scrubbers from our list.
This will happen naturally.
To be honest I wasn't expecting much from this season and even though our win/loss ratio is poor we've been more competitive in more games than I thought that we would.
I doubt that we'll improve radically next season but for the first time in what seems like centuries we finally have a sizeable group of talented young players coming through together, not just a Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer and then zilch.
Petrevski-Seton, Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Silvagni, Byrne, Fisher, Cunningham, Williamson and McKay are all under 25 and their scope for improvement is enormous, Liam Jones has been an unexpected but very important bonus and he's just past his mid 20's.
If we draft and trade well again this year and next the sky is the limit, I'm actually optimistic about the future for the first time in ages.
Petrevski-Seton, Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Silvagni, Byrne, Fisher, Cunningham, Williamson and McKay are all under 25 and their scope for improvement is enormous, Liam Jones has been an unexpected but very important bonus and he's just past his mid 20's.
If we draft and trade well again this year and next the sky is the limit, I'm actually optimistic about the future for the first time in ages.
x 2
If Weitering was 22 or 23 I'd be worried..... but he's 19 in his second year he'll be fine.
To be honest I wasn't expecting much from this season and even though our win/loss ratio is poor we've been more competitive in more games than I thought that we would.
I doubt that we'll improve radically next season but for the first time in what seems like centuries we finally have a sizeable group of talented young players coming through together, not just a Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer and then zilch.
Petrevski-Seton, Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, Docherty, Plowman, Marchbank, Silvagni, Byrne, Fisher, Cunningham, Williamson and McKay are all under 25 and their scope for improvement is enormous, Liam Jones has been an unexpected but very important bonus and he's just past his mid 20's.
If we draft and trade well again this year and next the sky is the limit, I'm actually optimistic about the future for the first time in ages.
Agree. We are in the early stages of a painful transition. We'll take another step forward with this year's draft/trade IMO. I'm not too concerned about Weitering either tbh. He's still very young and could do with a break from the heat of senior AFL footy, which he'll be getting very soon.
Feel very positive. We have got plenty of games into players and developing a style that will win us more than lose in the longer term.
Our back line is stabilising well, with a set of roles emerging that shows the team is able to stick to a structure.
We have an emerging spine of Jones or silvagni, weitering, curnow. McKay has plenty of potential and just a shame he is unlikely to get some more experience this year.
Weitering will be fine. We want tough, resiliant players to be our leaders. Provided he works through the challenge, this year is an excellent development for him. He is only 19.
So we need midfielders. Great, as midfielders are more available to draft and trade. The middle is also a team effort more, making the return on coaching and development greater.
Given the youth, we have done OK this year. The many close games show we are maintaining shape and concentration. The possession heavy defensive style is fine by me. That's what wins over a long season and in finals. Expect scoring to increase next year as the back line works and the midfield gets a bit more depth.
If you look at the past 5-10 seasons, at this time of year we were being smashed by 8-10 goals more often than not.
This season we are obviously young, tired and injuries have thinned our stocks, but we are not being smashed game after game.
As annoying as this week was, we only lost by a goal and, again, we were leading in the last quarter.
These kids, who had hardly even played their first match a year ago, are playing against players (grown men) who have been at it for ten years and have "superstar" next to their names - and we do OK...
x 2
If Weitering was 22 or 23 I'd be worried..... but he's 19 in his second year he'll be fine.
I'm not remotely concerned about his long term future, in fact I think it will do him more good than harm to be beaten by some mature bodied forwards like Hooker early in his career.
He's been used to beating everyone he played on at junior level and the realisation that AFL is a different matter will stand him in good stead, he has all of the attributes of a top class footballer.
You have to measure improvement also vs other teams, while we have improved I'm not so sure its at the same rate as some other teams, truth is teams like the Swans, Cats and to a lesser extent the Hawks have not dropped off like they are meant to and have rebuilt on the sly with no bottoming out. We got beat by a bunch of kids in Brisbane who also ran the Bulldogs close last night... are we just on par with Brisbane in reality?
Sure have we improved but are we improving at the right rate to progress up the ladder and when are these other teams who are meant to be dropping away going to do so and become the easybeats like we have been.
I'm not so sure this year has been that great to be honest and if not for our rising star nominees and the rebirth of Liam Jones I wouldnt be giving it a pass.
I'm not talking about Premierships EB, all that I'm saying is that at long last I'm happy with the direction we're heading and the methods we're using to get there.
Whether it will lead to the ultimate success nobody knows but I'm as confident as I can be that within two or three years we'll be a consistently competitive outfit.
Positives:
[1] The rebirth of Liam Jones:
When we recruited Jones we were dubious. It got worse with his 1st season with us, leading us to think that we had made a serious blunder.
Last year, his 2nd with us, was a bit different. He may not have been a great goal kicker, but he wasn't a dud of 2015. He chased, he tackled, he flew for screamers, but he still didn't get enough of the ball and his kicks for goal were... questionable. Opinion was that he was playing out his contract.
Come 2017 and Liam Jones is one of the most positives things to come out of this year. He had to move to defence, but it changed his game. He hasn't been beaten yet as a defender, although our defensive non-organization last week against Geelong meant that his nominal opponent kicked a bag.
[2] The Baby Blues:
We've had a lot of guys playing their 1st or second season and most of them have shown they will be senior players for us. One or 2 look like being big names. But we've tried a lot of kids and, for the most part, they have been worth the effort. Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni, Caleb Marchbank, Harry McKay, Tom Williamson, Harry Macreadie, Lachie Plowman, Sam Petrevski-Seton and Jacob Weitering (even if his form has been down for a few weeks now) have lead that charge, with Zac Fisher, Cam Polson, Jed Lamb and David Cuningham looking promising.
[3] Emergence of Alex Silvagni:
Like Jones, Alex Silvagni has made a significant contribution, while he' s been fit.
Now he needs to stay fit.
I'm not talking about Premierships EB, all that I'm saying is that at long last I'm happy with the direction we're heading and the methods we're using to get there.
Whether it will lead to the ultimate success nobody knows but I'm as confident as I can be that within two or three years we'll be a consistently competitive outfit.
Completely agree. Are we 100 points worse than Port or better than GWS because we beat them? It is all relative. Like you b4l I agree it is about the path we are taking to get there which seems more measured and strategic to achieve sustained success.
Positives:
[1] The rebirth of Liam Jones:
When we recruited Jones we were dubious. It got worse with his 1st season with us, leading us to think that we had made a serious blunder.
Last year, his 2nd with us, was a bit different. He may not have been a great goal kicker, but he wasn't a dud of 2015. He chased, he tackled, he flew for screamers, but he still didn't get enough of the ball and his kicks for goal were... questionable. Opinion was that he was playing out his contract.
Come 2017 and Liam Jones is one of the most positives things to come out of this year. He had to move to defence, but it changed his game. He hasn't been beaten yet as a defender, although our defensive non-organization last week against Geelong meant that his nominal opponent kicked a bag.
[2] The Baby Blues:
We've had a lot of guys playing their 1st or second season and most of them have shown they will be senior players for us. One or 2 look like being big names. But we've tried a lot of kids and, for the most part, they have been worth the effort. Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni, Caleb Marchbank, Harry McKay, Tom Williamson, Harry Macreadie, Lachie Plowman, Sam Petrevski-Seton and Jacob Weitering (even if his form has been down for a few weeks now) have lead that charge, with Zac Fisher, Cam Polson, Jed Lamb and David Cuningham looking promising.
[3] Emergence of Alex Silvagni:
Like Jones, Alex Silvagni has made a significant contribution, while he' s been fit.
Now he needs to stay fit.
It almost sounds like we had a good year when you say it like that Crash! ;D
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-08-05/postmatch-jacob-weitering
he's 100% fit and likes going forward..... hmmm
I'm not remotely concerned about his long term future, in fact I think it will do him more good than harm to be beaten by some mature bodied forwards like Hooker early in his career.
He's been used to beating everyone he played on at junior level and the realisation that AFL is a different matter will stand him in good stead, he has all of the attributes of a top class footballer.
I agree with that. It's a good year for his development as footballer.
Weitering has had to shoulder quite a burden with the loss of Rowe, then Silvagni and Marchbank not being as effective since his return. I reckon he is doing OK.
He may have lost some contests yesterday but I think that he played with more freedom than he has for quite a while.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-08-05/postmatch-jacob-weitering
he's 100% fit and likes going forward..... hmmm
If he's 100% fit, then I'm a monkey's uncle.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2017-08-05/postmatch-jacob-weitering
he's 100% fit and likes going forward..... hmmm
Then we have overrated Weiterings ability. :-[
i think his current 'problems' are between his ears....
Then we have overrated Weiterings ability. :-[
With ACOS and Rowe back maybe we can cut back on the expectations and let him find a position and settle, maybe a Jack Gunston role down forward.
Dont think he enjoys the big bodies like Mr Hooker and if you look at his shoulders he isnt a real big defender in the making.
I thought he was a better defender but I dont think he is liking it too much so maybe his future is forward but he needs settling if we do it not moving back and forth.
Intelligent lad and like Gunston plays a smart rather than power game and Bolton needs to work out where he needs to be playing...we stuffed up Andrew Walker by using him to troubleshoot
so we need to be careful with JW.
Our situation reminds me a bit of the old riddle.
How many backmen can you fit in a backline?
Pick your best backline and look who you've left out ???
If everyone's available (and even allowing a couple of extras to cover injuries) how the hell do we cater for all these blokes.
Some players are going to have to reinvent themselves as mids or forwards.
Our situation reminds me a bit of the old riddle.
How many backmen can you fit in a backline?
Pick your best backline and look who you've left out ???
If everyone's available (and even allowing a couple of extras to cover injuries) how the hell do we cater for all these blokes.
Some players are going to have to reinvent themselves as mids or forwards.
Which is why, again, i refer to the recruitment of A. Silvagni.
As good as he has been for us, he is surplus to us....or creates a surplus for us when we play him.
We are doing a rebuild, we didn't need a bandaid.
We would've been better off (long term) spending that slot on our key forward (or a mid).
Which is why, again, i refer to the recruitment of A. Silvagni.
As good as he has been for us, he is surplus to us....or creates a surplus for us when we play him.
We are doing a rebuild, we didn't need a bandaid.
We would've been better off (long term) spending that slot on our key forward (or a mid).
Fair point...losing Rowe though really hurt, while we have a glut of defenders we dont have any apart from the now reborn Jones who can take the big units and it just
happened on the weekend that Essendon had two and we got caught out with JW on Hooker.
ACOS and Rowe are both short term future players and in a year or two we will be looking at another big key defender to help Jones.
Like ruckman I think you can trade in defenders but good quality mids and forwards are harder to secure that way and you need to pay more or draft them...the game really is about mids these days....
you can have a very good midfield like Richmond, one decent key back(Rance) and one decent key forward(JackR) and you are competitive top 8 material.
Midfield depth has to be priority, you cant lose Cripps and then become non competitive......
Some humble thoughts.
It's difficult to assess our year, clearly and succinctly... and there's still a bit to go. On the surface, Ws and Ls, it is a cr@p year thus far with us sitting 2nd bottom. That is horrible and galling.
Talk of CFC supporters being 'conned' again from the media fuels discontent and suspicions, after all we were conned mercilessly from around 2001 until early 2015. So, this together with another poor year (Ws and Ls wise), makes it hard to be optimistic... and patient... or gullible going into 2018.
However, despite all this 'surface' stuff, it would seem 'the new team' has done everything we asked them to do... no more quick fixes, no more saviours and FFS not another Messiah! But, if we look similar to where we are now this time next year then I think the word conned will have grown big muscular legs.
As difficult as it is, to be really objective, I think it only reasonable to factor into our situation some sobering and important realities when assessing 2017:
CEO and President inherited a cot case, on and off field.
New Senior Coach and recruiting chief (SOS) inherited a recruiting and development, well, pile of cr@p. A succession of failed key position recruits (Watson and Co.) and outside mids (Lucas & Co) greeted them.
After 2-3 years, most of the non-hackers are off the list... just a few to go. And that means we're out of balance, too much youth at present. But will the investment pay off? There are some distance rays of sunshine on the horizon... woops, sorry, green shoots!
So, 2017. Positives:
Continued transparency from the club CEO and President.
Injury updates have much less bullshizen and more transparency also.
Very good reason to be optimistic about the prospects, on the field, of newly/recently introduced players: SOJ, Samo, H, Jones (he's a first year recruit!!!!!), Weitering, Marchbank, Curnow C, Plowman, Fisher, Macreadie, Willow, Pickett & ACOS. Cautious optimism re: Cuningham (I'm still yet to be convinced - too much invisibility), Polson, Smedts (I'm not as pessimistic as some about this bloke), Sheehan (50/50), Lamb (coming along nicely) & Kerr.
Weitering was wobbling but has looked better recently. Much better.
The senior blokes who have stood up well with increased load owing to injuries include Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Docherty & Matty Wright.
Injuries to Cripps, Curnow E, ACOS, Bunsen & Phillips haven’t help.
Foot soldiers who've been really honest and given their best when needed: Kerridge, Rowe, Graham, Thomas, White & Meat. I'd like to see us keep them all with the possible exception of Meat.
Negatives:
Dylan Buckley has failed to improve enough on last year. One more chance/depth player?
Time for a great servant, Den Den, to hang up the boots.
Kade Simpson, sadly, is showing signs of the game having passed him... ?retire?
Good-bye: Boekhorst, Sumner, Jaksch, Gorringe, JGM, Korcheck, Gallucci. And maybe Meat. Hopefully not Gibbs.
In summary, I don't think you can, in all fairness, ask if we're better than last year. Last year and this should be clumped together and compared to 2015 - and then the improvement is palpable, especially the emergence of a developing culture which BB seems to be building just nicely.
I think that all the questions of green shoots, SOS recruiting excellence, moving from team defence into more scoring and so on will be answered next year... when Ws and Ls WILL be more important than for last year and this.
For 2018? We need a significant improvement in midfield strength, mongrel, depth, experience and speed, then, I reckon, more scoring will take care of itself.
It’s been a fair-dinkum reset (bravo ‘new team’), with another very busy end of season draft / recruiting drive required. But let's see if we can get some quality experience into the joint. :)
We had 5 wins this years and 6 matches where we have led in the last qtr and lost. Using the ifs and buts theory if the final siren blew around the 15 min mark of the last qtr we'd potentially be sitting pretty close to top 4 with 11 wins. On that basis we have improved, made life miserable for good sides. The only real embarrassing blot was the Brisbane game.
I'm very happy with our defensively game but over the next 12 months I want that to become our Plan B. We have shown that ability to change things up, shutting down opposition side's momentum when we have fallen behind and get right back into the game. That has been very impressive. Other years we'd have just got flogged. The next step now is to win games when we have taken the lead in the last qtr.
Some humble thoughts.
Well considered Baggers.
I reckon most well-informed supporters would be on the same page. We have a way to go but the foundations are in place.
Fair point...losing Rowe though really hurt, while we have a glut of defenders we dont have any apart from the now reborn Jones who can take the big units and it just
happened on the weekend that Essendon had two and we got caught out with JW on Hooker.
ACOS and Rowe are both short term future players and in a year or two we will be looking at another big key defender to help Jones.
Like ruckman I think you can trade in defenders but good quality mids and forwards are harder to secure that way and you need to pay more or draft them...the game really is about mids these days....
you can have a very good midfield like Richmond, one decent key back(Rance) and one decent key forward(JackR) and you are competitive top 8 material.
Midfield depth has to be priority, you cant lose Cripps and then become non competitive......
How good would that midfield be without Dusty? Shizen.
And Geelong without Danger? Shizen
And the Crows without Sloane - until this year, shizen.
Pies without Pendles....?
Remember we lost Cripps and Curnow - both in the first handful picked, week in week out - and no else - on our current list - can do what Ed does....
The key to the future is "Development" once we secure these young players.
It's an area where we've been pretty poor.
A lot of folk are pointing to our five rising star nominations and saying it's an indication we've found some gems.
A look at rising star nominations over the years certainly shows a fair selection of quality players from other clubs.
We had two rising star nominations in 2014...Dylan Buckley and Troy Menzel.
It's what we do with the development of our youngsters that counts.
We need to see more 'Charlie Curnow' like growth and improvement and less second year blues and stagnation.
We've cooked Weitering, the kid looked good enough to be superstar, and I realise most players get the 2nd year blues, but we've cooked him. I'm not sure he can recover from what we've done to his confidence and game. He's gone from a Rising Star attacking intercept player to a stay at home and mind your opponent dogs body!
I hope/hope/hope that this was the plan - try to teach him some defensive side of his game, this year - so he is not just a Harry Taylor / Dustin Fletcher, who cant actually man up when required....... then next year, unleash him with some better balance to his game???? Any chance??
How good would that midfield be without Dusty? Shizen.
And Geelong without Danger? Shizen
And the Crows without Sloane - until this year, shizen.
Pies without Pendles....?
Remember we lost Cripps and Curnow - both in the first handful picked, week in week out - and no else - on our current list - can do what Ed does....
Dusty, Danger, Sloane, Pendles and Ed Curnow? ;D
I hope/hope/hope that this was the plan - try to teach him some defensive side of his game, this year - so he is not just a Harry Taylor / Dustin Fletcher, who cant actually man up when required....... then next year, unleash him with some better balance to his game???? Any chance??
WTF, you think we needed to teach him how to defend, a defensive mindset? :o
The kid who arrived and spent his first period in AFL seniors as one of the AFL's leading intercept marks, right up there with initial ratings along the lines of Rance, or even Jones this year.
Now he's a bumbling, fumbling mess with 1/10th the confidence he had prior to our "teaching him" some lessons!
WTF, you think we needed to teach him how to defend, a defensive mindset? :o
The kid who arrived and spent his first period in AFL seniors as one of the AFL's leading intercept marks, right up there with initial ratings along the lines of Rance, or even Jones this year.
Now he's a bumbling, fumbling mess with 1/10th the confidence he had prior to our "teaching him" some lessons!
this appears our forte, turning very good players into this ^ and turning average players into complete spuds!!
WTF, you think we needed to teach him how to defend, a defensive mindset? :o
The kid who arrived and spent his first period in AFL seniors as one of the AFL's leading intercept marks, right up there with initial ratings along the lines of Rance, or even Jones this year.
Now he's a bumbling, fumbling mess with 1/10th the confidence he had prior to our "teaching him" some lessons!
Just hoping there is some method behind the madness!
Intercept marks are just one side of being a good defender. I remember Fev saying he enjoyed playing on Scarlett, as he knew he could get him - as Scarlett was good at zoning off and intercepting, but no good man on man
I prefer Weitering as a forward. Looked good last year until he was exposed by Membrey, now the blueprint is out.
just hope our coaches make the neccessary change to the currant game plan and our recruiting dept (doing great job) recruit players that are strong quick mids mids mids
I prefer Weitering as a forward. Looked good last year until he was exposed by Membrey, now the blueprint is out.
Hard to blame the player for those match ups, would be different if Marchbank or Byrne was playing.
If you look at the ladder, there is four teams at the top, seven teams fighting for positions 5 to 11, three teams in the also rans, and four teams at the bottom, which include us. I thought this year we would finish at the top of the also rans, so I don't think we have achieved what I think we could have. Part of the reason for this is that Bolton at times have played games in a manner which were geared to the future rather than the present. I think we have nailed the past two drafts by getting Silvagni, Samo, McKay, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, Fisher, Cunningham, McCreadie, Curnow, Williamson and Pickett. I am hopeful on Polson, Phillips and Kerr and with Cripps, Docherty Byne and Jones, I think we have a pretty solid list for the future. We also have five senior professionals, Murphy Gibbs, Simpson, Kreuzer & E.Curnow. We need to nail this years draft again to really consolidate the future. There are other players on our list such as Graham, Kerridge and Lamb and maybe Smedts and Boekhurst, who could provide backup, while players like Wright, Rowe, A.Silvagni, White and Lamb will always give you 100%
10 wins 2018 or questions will be asked.
10 wins 2018 or questions will be asked.
Only by the idiots.
7 or 8 will be fine. Specially if we recruit like we have in the last 2 years.
We are part way through.
a genuine rebuild.
2019 should see some real improvement I rekon.
Yeah
No, we're tracking well for a final about 2022 ::)
Only by the idiots.
7 or 8 will be fine. Specially if we recruit like we have in the last 2 years.
We are part way through.
a genuine rebuild.
2019 should see some real improvement I rekon.
It appears certain that we will buy one or two top line mids, add that to organic growth, the improvement cab be rapid and significant.
No reason why a top 8 berth is out of the question in 2018.
It's all about mids, mids and mids - and Ben Saunders!
Only by the idiots.
7 or 8 will be fine. Specially if we recruit like we have in the last 2 years.
We are part way through.
a genuine rebuild.
2019 should see some real improvement I rekon.
Pull your head in and stop stalking
I will ask why the slow progression with 20-21 year olds.
Nice article by Daisy Pearce over at The Rage.
Nine Win Season for Carlton (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/why-its-been-a-ninewin-season-for-the-carlton-blues-20170810-gxtxjj.html)
The "Jones one" is something I'm still struggling a bit with.
Yes we've found a gem...and kudos to those responsible.
But why did it take us so long to identify that this is a key defender not a forward?
He was nearly "out the door" before he was given his opportunity.
My hope is that this signifies a greater awareness and an improvement in our major deficient area "Development".
Whether we got lucky with one smart fellows observations, or it's a new era in player development is yet to be determined...and the proof of the pudding will be in performance not potential (I'm a bit over the Nostradamus.... "Don't worry, he'll be right" approach...because we don't know ::) )
We've identified some likely prospects but we need to see "Charlie Curnow" like progress, not second and third year blues.
Many of these blokes are high draft picks...not rookie picks, and the expectations should be high.
The "Jones one" is something I'm still struggling a bit with.
Yes we've found a gem...and kudos to those responsible.
But why did it take us so long to identify that this is a key defender not a forward?
He was nearly "out the door" before he was given his opportunity.
My hope is that this signifies a greater awareness and an improvement in our major deficient area "Development".
Whether we got lucky with one smart fellows observations, or it's a new era in player development is yet to be determined...and the proof of the pudding will be in performance not potential (I'm a bit over the Nostradamus.... "Don't worry, he'll be right" approach...because we don't know ::) )
We've identified some likely prospects but we need to see "Charlie Curnow" like progress, not second and third year blues.
Many of these blokes are high draft picks...not rookie picks, and the expectations should be high.
I have a theory.
In all walks of life, some people have aspirations to become something.
Jones aspired to be an AFL key position forward.
We all saw that he couldnt do it, but he was determined to try and make it. So he battled away at the task for 12 months or so under Bolton and they were willing to see where it went.
Sure enough it wasnt proving fruitful. Yet, he continued plugging away at it, until someone may have pulled him aside and said to him, how would you feel about a change?
Change can be very turbulent, and accepting that what you want to do, and what you can do are two very different scenarios, it can be difficult to nudge people in the right direction.
The fact that Liam knows how to play as a forward (somewhat) is helping him as a defender, and at some point I have no doubt we will put him forward again and he will be better at it for the experience of playing down back.
This isnt a game, where you put some ticks regarding developement around a player and watch their stats increase, or write their name down on a different part of the paper and watch it yield rewards.
This is real life, where people are stubborn, have emotions and sometimes getting them to the point where they become open to change is necessary. Dont look at the two years he spent with us playing forward as time wasted. Its all part of the journey.
Mind you, that last part is what makes me believe that our club is in good stead moving forward. We have embraced the journey aspect of decision making and how players developement wont be linear. Some will grow year upon year, others will have set backs along the way, but the setbacks dont matter, its how you respond that counts. Liam has absolutely been rewarded. The same opportunity is there for everyone, but they have to be open to it.
If he was allowed to dictate where he played for a few seasons that's a bit of a concern.
Yep
This is real life
....and in real life you can't predict the future.
Which is why I have a bit of a problem with the "everything will be alright" approach.
It's much better to be on the edge.
Appreciate the things that are going well but keep a strong eye on where things aren't quite up to scratch and keep working on them.
Maybe that's exactly what is happening but it just strikes me that there are areas, such as player development, where we cant yet say for sure ..."This is an area where we've definitely improved."
We've identified some talent....it's what happens next that counts.
Yeah
No, we're tracking well for a final about 2022 ::)
Cmon Lods, you're normally the level headed one.
I was labelled as 'negative' for suggesting the season we've had was what i expected.
To go with that was my expectation that once the the table does turn, it will turn very quickly. My expectation was for it to start next season. Now, that is of course dependent on what happens in the trade/draft period. If we ignore our key forward area like we have in the past i reserve the right to adjust my predictions.
If nothing else, we have become MORE of a destination club than we have in the past. Bolton hasn't been around long enough to make any enemies, and not too many people have a bad thing to say about it. We have enough young blokes, who apply enough pressure, for people to realise we are building to something...and they will want to jump on board.
To quote Field of Dreams -
"If you build it, they will come"In this case, we are building a new culture.
That comment of mine you quoted was actually in response to the suggestion that anything more than 7 or 8 wins would be above expectations for 2018.
It was a bit of sarcasm...
If 7 or 8 wins are all we're looking at in 2018 then at that rate finals are well off.
In reality like you I believe things can turn quickly.
Unlike you I thought it would be this year....but it became apparent once the season started that results we're secondary to experimentation and getting games into young kids.
Whether that will prove beneficial or detrimental to some will be determined down the track.
One area of concern for me is that, also like you, I started the year with concerns about our forward line.
That concern still exists but now it's exacerbated by what has proven to be some major problems in the midfield.
This next draft/trade period is vitally important.
Whether or not we really are a destination club will be interesting to see.
I agree with Neil Craig in regard to this comment;
“So I understand a certain amount of criticism but that’s where, when you’ve been in the game for a long period of time, I understand it but I disagree with it. I’ve seen first-hand here the development and the direction and I see huge development.”
For me our Player Development looks 1000% better than it has been in the past which is why I changed my forum signature a while back.
Nice article by Daisy Pearce over at The Rage.
Nine Win Season for Carlton (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/why-its-been-a-ninewin-season-for-the-carlton-blues-20170810-gxtxjj.html)
Listened to the Andy Maher Carlton podcast (sometimes too positive even for a Carlton supporter) and he pointed out the difference between this article - a really balanced view that had some in depth research and no biases, v John Ralph's piece that just sh@t on Carlton from above, and took the "fewer wins, can't kick a score, therefore a diaster" trek - that would have taken him about 5mins to write
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/denis-pagan-calls-for-carlton-to-attack-more-as-the-blues-face-fifth-spoon-in-16-years/news-story/f8fd5c65ff35e1647a51dc1e05c5c750
Guess which way most journos go, when they write/talk about Carlton!!
Listened to the Andy Maher Carlton podcast (sometimes too positive even for a Carlton supporter) and he pointed out the difference between this article - a really balanced view that had some in depth research and no biases, v John Ralph's piece that just sh@t on Carlton from above, and took the "fewer wins, can't kick a score, therefore a diaster" trek - that would have taken him about 5mins to write
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/denis-pagan-calls-for-carlton-to-attack-more-as-the-blues-face-fifth-spoon-in-16-years/news-story/f8fd5c65ff35e1647a51dc1e05c5c750
Guess which way most journos go, when they write/talk about Carlton!!
If Pagan or some journalist had made this call six months ago it might have relevance in the current circumstance, but blind Freddy can see the direction our club is heading and making these sorts of statements now is like calling the race from a video replay!
Can we have a past coach or past player come out and tell Carlton problem is that it should win more games! That would cap things off nicely, especially when they claim it was all their idea after it happens! ;D
I agree with Neil Craig in regard to this comment;
For me our Player Development looks 1000% better than it has been in the past which is why I changed my forum signature a while back.
Absolutely.
I agree with Neil Craig in regard to this comment;
For me our Player Development looks 1000% better than it has been in the past which is why I changed my forum signature a while back.
Whilst i agree with you. Has the club ever said otherwise (in the moment?).
Its only when looking back have they acknowledged a problem....and even then, rarely.
I'm still a little cautious re player development.
Not counting first year players because you don't have a base line to measure improvement....
Which players have shown the benefits of our development?
Curnow definitely...who else?
I put player development down to Bolton, Fraser, Amos, Barker etc...not sure what Craig has done to be so valuable...
Bolton and Amos could probably lecture him on the merits of what a successful footy dept needs..
Every club he ends up at usually falls quicker than a Malaysian airliner and rises like a phoenix when he leaves....
I put player development down to Bolton, Fraser, Amos, Barker etc...not sure what Craig has done to be so valuable...
Bolton and Amos could probably lecture him on the merits of what a successful footy dept needs..
Every club he ends up at usually falls quicker than a Malaysian airliner and rises like a phoenix when he leaves....
I'm no expert but the one player highlighted on the journey that he was putting work into was KJ, looking forward to his meteoric rise once Craig goes.
I'm no expert but the one player highlighted on the journey that he was putting work into was KJ, looking forward to his meteoric rise once Craig goes.
SB..I remember Craig saying he was working with KJ...worked about as well as Taylor Walker did for him.... :-X
SB..I remember Craig saying he was working with KJ...worked about as well as Taylor Walker did for him.... :-X
Ouch
SB..I remember Craig saying he was working with KJ...worked about as well as Taylor Walker did for him.... :-X
love it!
SB..I remember Craig saying he was working with KJ...worked about as well as Taylor Walker did for him.... :-X
And, as I have pointed out before, Walker admits that Craig did the right thing playing him in the magoos :)
It seemed to me that Craig was tasked with trying to get Jaksch to keep focused. Fraser and the line coaches are the blokes putting the work into Jaksch but, when all is said and done, the coaches can only provide a framework in which players may develop. Jaksch seems the odd one out among our recent additions and I suspect that the responsibility for his lack of progress rests squarely on his shoulders.
And, as I have pointed out before, Walker admits that Craig did the right thing playing him in the magoos :)
It seemed to me that Craig was tasked with trying to get Jaksch to keep focused. Fraser and the line coaches are the blokes putting the work into Jaksch but, when all is said and done, the coaches can only provide a framework in which players may develop. Jaksch seems the odd one out among our recent additions and I suspect that the responsibility for his lack of progress rests squarely on his shoulders.
Honestly I'll take Jones and Pickett making it if it means KJ doesn't. You don't get them all right and the form of those 2 will be 2 of the positives from this year. Funnily KJ was the highest rated and certainly cost us the most, there's a lesson in itself!
And, as I have pointed out before, Walker admits that Craig did the right thing playing him in the magoos :)
It seemed to me that Craig was tasked with trying to get Jaksch to keep focused. Fraser and the line coaches are the blokes putting the work into Jaksch but, when all is said and done, the coaches can only provide a framework in which players may develop. Jaksch seems the odd one out among our recent additions and I suspect that the responsibility for his lack of progress rests squarely on his shoulders.
I'll take that as Walker playing a straight gracious bat as the captain of the Crows.....Putting Craigs coaching career into perspective...Gary Ayres had a slightly better win /loss ratio......Craig's best years were his first two full time ones with a list that Ayres built.
Craigs expertise was fitness IMO not coaching....I dont want Eade for the same reasons I didnt want Craig....not good enough at the end of the day to win a GF even when they had the cattle...
I'll take that as Walker playing a straight gracious bat as the captain of the Crows.....Putting Craigs coaching career into perspective...Gary Ayres had a slightly better win /loss ratio......Craig's best years were his first two full time ones with a list that Ayres built.
Craigs expertise was fitness IMO not coaching....I dont want Eade for the same reasons I didnt want Craig....not good enough at the end of the day to win a GF even when they had the cattle...
Walker admitted that his defensive efforts were abysmal and learning how to address that in the seconds changed his career.
Anyway, Bolton reckons Craig has done a great job in his time with us, and I tend to agree.
A really pleasing aspect of our season has been our defence and especially last game when we attacked through the middle. A maturing side has the ability to change tack a little, moving from defence to attack and back when it suits. We proved we were able to attack through the corridor and then move back to a defensive style.
It has been a long season at times, and the last few weeks have been ordinary. But we have only been blown away in two games (two and a half if Brisbane is included) and we have been competitive. Games are being played by the youth, getting experience in. Curnow has played over 20 games already. Not bad for a second year key position player. Likewise with Weitering.
Finsihing bottom is likely and we should be filthy about this. Maybe this could have been avoided if we played the likes of Palmer and Armfield for a few more games, but it would be at the expense of getting valuable AFL game time into Williamson, Mcreedie, Marchbank, Plowman, SPS, Fisher and Pickett.
Big draft coming up for the club. Get this right (3 or 4 150 game players) and we are serious finals contenders in a couple of years. Muck it up and we will be drifting.
A really pleasing aspect of our season has been our defence and especially last game when we attacked through the middle. A maturing side has the ability to change tack a little, moving from defence to attack and back when it suits. We proved we were able to attack through the corridor and then move back to a defensive style.
It has been a long season at times, and the last few weeks have been ordinary. But we have only been blown away in two games (two and a half if Brisbane is included) and we have been competitive. Games are being played by the youth, getting experience in. Curnow has played over 20 games already. Not bad for a second year key position player. Likewise with Weitering.
Finsihing bottom is likely and we should be filthy about this. Maybe this could have been avoided if we played the likes of Palmer and Armfield for a few more games, but it would be at the expense of getting valuable AFL game time into Williamson, Mcreedie, Marchbank, Plowman, SPS, Fisher and Pickett.
Big draft coming up for the club. Get this right (3 or 4 150 game players) and we are serious finals contenders in a couple of years. Muck it up and we will be drifting.
Yes, I reckon you're on the mark there.
I remember the commentators in one of our games talking about our ability to control the tempo and ensure the game was played on our terms. We are just not yet able to take full advantage of that ... but it will happen.
I'm still a little cautious re player development.
Not counting first year players because you don't have a base line to measure improvement....
Which players have shown the benefits of our development?
Curnow definitely...who else?
Lods I think there's a few players who seem to be on the up. Ed, Kerridge, and Lamb have improved in specific areas. Jones and Pickett, for different reasons, have shown development across several areas. Those few come to mind, but there are probably others. Actually Boekhurst might be another.
Lods I think there's a few players who seem to be on the up. Ed, Kerridge, and Lamb have improved in specific areas. Jones and Pickett, for different reasons, have shown development across several areas. Those few come to mind, but there are probably others. Actually Boekhurst might be another.
I think Cunningham too.
I'm not saying there aren't improvements in certain aspects...I'm just challenging the generalisation that our developmental programs are "much improved", because I think it's too early to make those assertions.
What we need to see is significant and sustained improvement before we can say our developmental programs are much better....and it's probably a judgement that needs another 12 months.
Those green shoots need to grow a bit stronger and thicker.
More Charlie Curnows in 2018 and fewer second and third year blues.
I think Cunningham too.
I'm not saying there aren't improvements in certain aspects...I'm just challenging the generalisation that our developmental programs are "much improved", because I think it's too early to make those assertions.
What we need to see is significant and sustained improvement before we can say our developmental programs are much better....and it's probably a judgement that needs another 12 months.
Those green shoots need to grow a bit stronger and thicker.
More Charlie Curnows in 2018 and fewer second and third year blues.
It';s too early to tell =- if all these blokes mentioned become established (and regularly decent, good or better) AFL players well there's your answer.
2018 will reveal a lot!
I think Cunningham too.
I'm not saying there aren't improvements in certain aspects...I'm just challenging the generalisation that our developmental programs are "much improved", because I think it's too early to make those assertions.
What we need to see is significant and sustained improvement before we can say our developmental programs are much better....and it's probably a judgement that needs another 12 months.
Those green shoots need to grow a bit stronger and thicker.
More Charlie Curnows in 2018 and fewer second and third year blues.
I'd happily take a team full of Curnowfides'.
I think the 'improvement' is more of an effort/team thing, rather than individuals.
Running both ways, putting on that extra block. All the 1%'s.