Carlton Supporters Club

My issue is we still have two ruckmen and just one key forward. Given our ruckmen are useless when not on the ball we are essentially playing with 17 most of the time as you can only play one of them on the ball at any one time. Jaksch will have Casboult's problem of being one out against the opposition defence. We been pumped each time we've had two rucks and just one key forward. This time it's a young player still developing and building strength.

Jones averages 9 touches a game and has kicked 8 goals from his 5 games.....which isn't great for a key forward.

Where have i heard this before? Oh yeah, every post you make.

We don't have key forwards on the list. We have Jones, sure, but he offers us less than our rucks do!

Jones averages 9 touches a game and has kicked 8 goals from his 5 games.....which isn't great for a key forward.

Phillips averages 7 touches a game, but also 17 hitouts a game....kicked the game winner against the bombers (4 goals total)
Kreuzer averages 10 touches a game, but also 20 hitouts a game....kicked 4 goals this year.
Gorringe averages 13 touches a game, and 9 hitouts a game....kicked 4 goals this year (from 4 games)...and has played mainly forward.

FWIW, when Rowe was our 2nd ruckman against Port, he got 12 touches and kicked a goal as well.

Our rucks are not setting the world on fire, but neither is Jones. At least our rucks are rucking and between them get us a goal a game on average as well.

The same disposal average as Casboult this season, and Casboult has kicked 12 goals in his 14 games.
I'm being a bit harsh on Levi because he was injured in the first 5 minutes in one game so it's effectively 12 goals from 13 games.....which also isn't great for a key forward.
For some reason which I don't understand Casboult is a cult hero while Jones is a whipping boy, in my opinion neither of them are any good.
Good luck to young Jaksch tomorrow, there's a vacancy in our side if he's good enough to fill it.

I make it because it's right. When you're right you can keep saying it.

My issue is we still have two ruckmen and just one key forward. Given our ruckmen are useless when not on the ball we are essentially playing with 17 most of the time as you can only play one of them on the ball at any one time. Jaksch will have Casboult's problem of being one out against the opposition defence. We been pumped each time we've had two rucks and just one key forward. This time it's a young player still developing and building strength.

Agree.

Casboult is 'good' because he can take a mark.
Personally, i like him because he runs through opposition players.

As far as a key forward you can rely on.....nope.

Casboult is 'good' because he can take a mark.

Personally, i like him because he runs through opposition players.

I make it because it's right. When you're right you can keep saying it. Try it. Two rucks has been a deadset failure, please don't tell me otherwise. Your selective stats won't change a thing. Please don't bore us with them and just watch the game instead. That'll tell you more. Nothing like a scoreboard to tell us a story. Two rucks, one key forward, struggle to kick 7-8 goals, two key forwards, started at 10 then worked it's`way to over 100pts with 6 wins from 7 games. Back to two rucks, one key forwards, back to kicking 7 goals from 51 forward 50 entries. Your stats pale in comparison with those...lol.

Jones is a target, take the pressure off the other key forward and kick a goal or two. It spreads the defence instead of them going to the single key forward. Opens up the 50 and allows others to hit the scoreboard too not to mention straightening us up as we go forward. Called structure. Surely you grasp that concept. It's simple and results have proved it this year. We know he's not that good but he is way better value and having a ruckman running around doing nothing. They are useless up forward or anywhere else when off the ball.

Like I said, When did things change for us this year? When we picked a 2nd key forward. We started winning and started kicking bigger scores. We did even better again when we played just Kreuzer most of the day with back up from Casboult, as we have the last few years. Both play alot better. If you haven't seen that then we're just wasting our time here. That's the stat that matters. Try real stats.

I understand the point you are trying to make. However, what is it exactly the Jones does that make defenders follow him, that playing a second ruck doesn't do when they are playing forward?

Why is Jones 'so good' at taking a defender when our ruckmen are not capable of doing?!

Our ruckmen tend to be stationary and attract balls kicked on top of their heads.  The defenders come over the top and punch the ball clear and often to their team's advantage.  While I am a critic of Jones because he doesn't create enough opportunities as a forward target, he does hit contests at speed, smashes packs and brings the ball to ground in a more random way that should favour our small forwards (if they were any good).  His opponent has to stay with him because he knows the basics of forward play.

Our ruckmens' opponents can zone off because they know that, if a ruckman does become a target, the ball will coming on top of their head and they will be able to spoil.

I make it because it's right. When you're right you can keep saying it. Try it. Two rucks has been a deadset failure, please don't tell me otherwise. Your selective stats won't change a thing. Please don't bore us with them and just watch the game instead. That'll tell you more. Nothing like a scoreboard to tell us a story. Two rucks, one key forward, struggle to kick 7-8 goals, two key forwards, started at 10 then worked it's`way to over 100pts with 6 wins from 7 games. Back to two rucks, one key forwards, back to kicking 7 goals from 51 forward 50 entries. Your stats pale in comparison with those...lol.

Jones is a target, take the pressure off the other key forward and kick a goal or two. It spreads the defence instead of them going to the single key forward. Opens up the 50 and allows others to hit the scoreboard too not to mention straightening us up as we go forward. Called structure. Surely you grasp that concept. It's simple and results have proved it this year. We know he's not that good but he is way better value and having a ruckman running around doing nothing. They are useless up forward or anywhere else when off the ball.

Like I said, When did things change for us this year? When we picked a 2nd key forward. We started winning and started kicking bigger scores. We did even better again when we played just Kreuzer most of the day with back up from Casboult, as we have the last few years. Both play alot better. If you haven't seen that then we're just wasting our time here. That's the stat that matters. Try real stats.

Our ruckmen tend to be stationary and attract balls kicked on top of their heads.  The defenders come over the top and punch the ball clear and often to their team's advantage.  While I am a critic of Jones because he doesn't create enough opportunities as a forward target, he does hit contests at speed, smashes packs and brings the ball to ground in a more random way that should favour our small forwards (if they were any good).  His opponent has to stay with him because he knows the basics of forward play.

Our ruckmens' opponents can zone off because they know that, if a ruckman does become a target, the ball will coming on top of their head and they will be able to spoil.

Mate I dont quite get your theory. There has been games with 2 rucks that we have won and lost so I am not sure there is a pattern. We have also lost with one ruckman (eg NM). See below:
Rnd 5 Freo Win Kruezer and Phillips (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 6 Ess Win Kruezer and Phillips (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 7 Coll Win Kruezer  (1 Ruck Played)
Rnd 8 PA Win Kruezer  (1 Ruck Played)
Rnd 9 NM Loss Gorringe  (1 Rucks Played)
Rnd 10 Geel Win Kruezer and Gorringe (2 Rucks Played)
Rnd 11 Bris Win Kruezer and Gorringe (2 Rucks Played) 
The Rnd 12, 14, 15, 16 we have lost every game with 2 rucks playing