2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

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Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #105 – April 23, 2018, 10:02:35 am

Quote from: Baggers on April 23, 2018, 09:25:06 am

True, (SPS), is becoming frustrating. He should be made to sit and watch a few hours of Cyril R highlights, especially the attack on the man and aggott and defensive stuff.

Yes, one of the hallmarks of his early career was his tackling and attack on the ball carrier, he's lost that aggression and hasn't looked like it yet this season.

It's the 2nd year blues, like they all get, I don't want his progress stalled by flogging him mercilessly like we did Weitering. imho, BB needs to make the early call!

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #106 – April 23, 2018, 10:19:30 am

SPS definitely looks like he is just coasting along atm. I had him marked down last year as a strong and enthusiastic tackler and that has definitely largely disappeared - for now anyway. I don't know whether he has been given a different role and is trying to find his feet with that but he is certainly one of my disappointments so far this year. He still gives us a few tantalising glimpses of what he is capable of but only glimpses.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #107 – April 23, 2018, 12:57:25 pm

SPS needs a breakout game to convince himself that he belongs. Don't think he believes it yet.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #108 – April 23, 2018, 01:07:06 pm

Quote from: townsendcalling on April 23, 2018, 12:57:25 pm

SPS needs a breakout game to convince himself that he belongs. Don't think he believes it yet.

I think the opposite.
He thinks he's made it, and doesn't need the defensive physical approach he had.
Needs to stick his head down and get back involved when we don't have it.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #109 – April 23, 2018, 01:21:03 pm

I'm with you JonHenry....he's got ahead of himself....the shoes very much hint at that.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #110 – April 23, 2018, 01:27:27 pm

Quote from: townsendcalling on April 23, 2018, 12:57:25 pm

SPS needs a breakout game to convince himself that he belongs. Don't think he believes it yet.

Quote from: JonHenry on April 23, 2018, 01:07:06 pm

I think the opposite.
He thinks he's made it, and doesn't need the defensive physical approach he had.
Needs to stick his head down and get back involved when we don't have it.

One glass half full, the other half empty.

Is there any evidence to support either assertion?

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #111 – April 23, 2018, 01:43:34 pm

Quote from: LP on April 23, 2018, 01:27:27 pm

One glass half full, the other half empty.

Is there any evidence to support either assertion?

Not really, just from what I see, and I agree with a few others that say he picks and chooses when to go.
Maybe that's a learnt behaviour

Tackles per game last year v this year were 60% higher.
Clearances per game 2.1 down to 1.8

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #112 – April 23, 2018, 01:46:03 pm

my thoughts from the game -

effort was there finally. I think Crippa having a whole week to prepare for being captain and not having to suddenly do it with 2 minutes notice could have been the catalyst. that will be proven in the coming weeks. I'd be pleased with Crippa and/or Doc as captain - and it needs to be from next year. no complaints about Murph - he did his best - he's just not very inspiring as a captain imo.

Jones was given the correct matchup by the match committee this week. Don't play him on the best goalkicker - there's enough evidence to show he is NOT a lockdown defender. but he is a jack in the box and a joy to watch.

Dow getting more comfortable, he'll build steadily and become a very good mid. I questioned playing him earlier in the year if we were trying to win games this year, but the fact he has played from round 1 tells me it is still a development year for us. So he has to play, unless injured, and it will pay us back later.

Lochie O'B showed why he was drafted at 10. Maybe not the best player available at 10, but the type we need. Fantastic endurance, and a lovely left boot. He did miss a couple of kicks, but not by much, and that will improve as he gets more composed. But the thing I liked was how often he got to position to link up, and how often he did use the ball very nicely. same theory here as with Dow - keep playing the kids.

Big H. I know people here are saying he should have been playing earlier, but by making him earn it he comes out and kicks 4. if he came in half ready and had a poor game, maybe that might hurt his development? I'd love to see him play out the season in the AFL now (provided he doesn't drop off a cliff for an extended period). And again - now that he is deemed ready - keep playing him.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #113 – April 23, 2018, 01:50:17 pm

Quote from: JonHenry on April 23, 2018, 01:43:34 pm

Not really, just from what I see, and I agree with a few others that say he picks and chooses when to go.
Maybe that's a learnt behaviour

Tackles per game last year v this year were 60% higher.
Clearances per game 2.1 down to 1.8

I wonder how much of this is down to either 2nd year blues or the presence of Kennedy in the first few games.

I agree with the general perception, that SPS no longer looks like he belongs, I have no idea why!

Obviously he is not on his own in this regard for 2018, there are several down of form as we try to introduce attack. Perhaps we have drafted players who are primarily defensive in mindset, perhaps SPS primarily scores through tackles and forward pressure.

It's clear that Dow and O'Brien are the other side of the coin though!

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #114 – April 23, 2018, 01:56:24 pm

Quote from: JonHenry on April 23, 2018, 01:07:06 pm

I think the opposite.
He thinks he's made it, and doesn't need the defensive physical approach he had.
Needs to stick his head down and get back involved when we don't have it.

I'm also of the opinion that SPS is feeling too comfortable. He needs to get down and dirty; it would be good for his development.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #115 – April 23, 2018, 02:14:08 pm

Can I just say that Andrew Phillips set the tone early with his very first ruck contest.

Everyone rode HIS coat tails to the party as he went bloody hard at that first bounce and I think Nic Nat was shell shocked.

As for SPS, he shows poise in traffic, and like everyone else is having to help carry the load.

We are taking passengers in every week, and IMHO its showing on the younger players as they seem stuck in two minds about helping someone else out or doing what they were supposed to be doing themselves, and getting stuck in no man's land between decisions.

Patience guys. Like Dow, 5 games later he looks much more comfortable, and O'Brien is looking like he belongs already which is great.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #116 – April 23, 2018, 03:01:38 pm

Quote from: Tragic on April 23, 2018, 01:46:03 pm

my thoughts from the game -

effort was there finally. I think Crippa having a whole week to prepare for being captain and not having to suddenly do it with 2 minutes notice could have been the catalyst. that will be proven in the coming weeks. I'd be pleased with Crippa and/or Doc as captain - and it needs to be from next year. no complaints about Murph - he did his best - he's just not very inspiring as a captain imo.

Jones was given the correct matchup by the match committee this week. Don't play him on the best goalkicker - there's enough evidence to show he is NOT a lockdown defender. but he is a jack in the box and a joy to watch.

Dow getting more comfortable, he'll build steadily and become a very good mid. I questioned playing him earlier in the year if we were trying to win games this year, but the fact he has played from round 1 tells me it is still a development year for us. So he has to play, unless injured, and it will pay us back later.

Lochie O'B showed why he was drafted at 10. Maybe not the best player available at 10, but the type we need. Fantastic endurance, and a lovely left boot. He did miss a couple of kicks, but not by much, and that will improve as he gets more composed. But the thing I liked was how often he got to position to link up, and how often he did use the ball very nicely. same theory here as with Dow - keep playing the kids.

Big H. I know people here are saying he should have been playing earlier, but by making him earn it he comes out and kicks 4. if he came in half ready and had a poor game, maybe that might hurt his development? I'd love to see him play out the season in the AFL now (provided he doesn't drop off a cliff for an extended period). And again - now that he is deemed ready - keep playing him.

Great post Tragic.

The beauty of hving Big H down there is that he is a legitmat tall target - running off his man and as a contested mark - and with Levi floating about too (not to mention Charlie) the opposition have to think how they will handle two super tall key forwards ((not to mention Charlie)

All that said, we do need a win badly!

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #117 – April 23, 2018, 04:26:02 pm

Cripps only had something like 34 possies but it was one of the most influential games I have seen from an individual. From memory he had a hand in all but 2 of our goals. Several times he single handedly turned a threatening WCE move to our advantage through pressure/tackle/bump/intercept, and he was often involved in the immediate follow up play, and sometimes involved again for a third time.

The goal in the last when Simmo kicked to Crippa who quickly passed it on towards the AFL members wing (can't remember who) where it ended with a spearing pass to Casboult in the qoalsquare is the way we need to play more often. Obviously can't pull it off every time but I'd certainly be happy to see at least one coast-to-coast goal every match.

Feel like I have to be a bit of a wet blanket and point out how useless the Weagles are at the MCG. Looked more lost out there than Burke & Wills. They might improve a little now that the new Perth ground is the same dimensions as the MCG but I can't see them going far in September.

Also really disappointed in SPS thus far this season, he was so mercurial when he debuted. Second year blues perhaps?

Finally, as a counterpoint to Cripps, I have to mention Simmo. I need a rover who won't drive me crazy. Has there ever been a player whose amazing guts, work rate, and determination has been the total polar opposite of his effectiveness and ability to capitalise on said hard earned possessions? Maddening.

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #118 – April 23, 2018, 08:21:36 pm

Quote from: crashlander on April 23, 2018, 01:56:24 pm

I'm also of the opinion that SPS is feeling too comfortable. He needs to get down and dirty; it would be good for his development.

Is he being instructed to not bother getting down and dirty and play a certain way? That is the way he is playing now? Just sayin'

Re: 2018 Rd 5: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #119 – April 23, 2018, 08:25:54 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 on April 23, 2018, 03:01:38 pm

Great post Tragic.

The beauty of hving Big H down there is that he is a legitmat tall target - running off his man and as a contested mark - and with Levi floating about too (not to mention Charlie) the opposition have to think how they will handle two super tall key forwards ((not to mention Charlie)

All that said, we do need a win badly!

Yes FB, H did well. But he needs to work harder. He needs to aspire to have a work rate like Charlie. He needs to get to as many contests as possible and create a headache for the defenders. He saw he can do it, as I said in another post, he now has to slowly amp it up every week. They need to get into his ear, and the ear of every player on the list, and make sure they don't rest on their laurels.