Carlton Supporters Club

Around The Grounds => The Sports Desk => Topic started by: LP on November 30, 2018, 01:51:33 pm

Poll
Question: Horn or Mundine
Option 1: Horn - By a long way! votes: 5
Option 2: Boring - Nil All Draw! votes: 1
Option 3: Mundine - Still the Man! votes: 0
Title: Horn or Mundine
Post by: LP on November 30, 2018, 01:51:33 pm
What are your thoughts, who will win, who do you want to win?
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: madbluboy on November 30, 2018, 02:16:50 pm
Mundine is weight drained, he will get destroyed.

Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 30, 2018, 02:18:48 pm
Bit worried about Mundine, really sounding like he has had one too many fights of late and struggling to construct conversation but he is a skilled boxer
and counter puncher who will look to avoid the bigger punching Horn early in the fight while trying to land a couple to slow the younger bloke down.
The odds favour the younger Horn, Mundine struggled more to make the weight and most scribes have Horn winning but while I dont like Mundine as a person he is a crafty
pro in the ring and has the know how to go the distance and rack up the points with his counter punching.

I'll stick with Horn but its going to be closer than most think and Horn needs to learn from how Danny Green fought Mundine and not get sucked into
chasing Mundine all over the ring and wearing himself out early like Green did..I thought Green was lucky to get that last result.....
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: DJC on November 30, 2018, 02:56:10 pm
Mundine reckons he is going to cut Horn and have the fight stopped by the 11th round.  I suspect that may reflect a subconscious concern about his 43 year old body going the distance.

I can't really see Horn losing but boxing is a funny caper.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: madbluboy on November 30, 2018, 04:52:20 pm
Mundane has been at a healthy weight when he has fought Green.

When he has fought this low he has looked terrible.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 30, 2018, 06:09:19 pm
Horn is overrated IMO, his last fight was horrendous and it made me think he got real lucky vs Pacman. Having said that, I hope he punches holes through Mundine.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: cookie2 on November 30, 2018, 06:36:05 pm
Heard them talking about this fight on SEN yesterday morning and the general opinion was that Mundine is in good nick and would be the favourite. I don't really know or care tbh.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: madbluboy on November 30, 2018, 09:40:27 pm
Horn is overrated IMO, his last fight was horrendous and it made me think he got real lucky vs Pacman. Having said that, I hope he punches holes through Mundine.

Crawford is the best fighter in the world now. Pacquiao had been on the slide since 2010 so he was ripe for the picking.

Mundine at his best was way better than Horn but he is over 40 and weight drained. He has to lose muscle mass and completely dehydrate himself to make weight.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 30, 2018, 11:38:25 pm
Mundine down and out rnd
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 30, 2018, 11:41:29 pm
Thats what happens when old sportmen just hang around too long.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 30, 2018, 11:48:04 pm
Wow, Mundine was humble in defeat, terrific speech, Ill remember him in a different light now.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2018, 12:17:08 am
Wow, Mundine was humble in defeat, terrific speech, Ill remember him in a different light now.

Yep it was a short and sweet fight and Mundine got his pay check......maybe that was the idea...
He did praise Horn but doubt I will ever change my opinion on Mundine as a person...

Dont fancy Horn vs Crawford again either...Crawford is too quick and slick with the long range jab and like last time will only lock
Horn up in close and hold on so Horn cant let the big punch go....


Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: sandsmere on December 01, 2018, 07:09:05 am
Great result.

Mundine can go away, sit on the floor and play with his toys now.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 01, 2018, 07:49:18 am
Yep it was a short and sweet fight and Mundine got his pay check......maybe that was the idea...
He did praise Horn but doubt I will ever change my opinion on Mundine as a person...

Dont fancy Horn vs Crawford again either...Crawford is too quick and slick with the long range jab and like last time will only lock
Horn up in close and hold on so Horn cant let the big punch go....
I suspect Horn learnt alot from the Crawford fight and therefore would approach it differently. I think he also had a few issues with food in Las Vegas made him a little crook, that wont happen again. I know the bloke was 43 but what Horn did last night was precisely what he needed to do (ie quick disposal inside the first round). One thing Horn does better than many is hit hard! You could see Mundines face that he knew he was in strife after he took that first body shot, it was an anvil of a punch. Anyway, onwards and upwards for Horn and a happy retirement for Choc.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Professer E on December 01, 2018, 08:04:21 am
Yep,  thanks Mundine, please stay retired before you get really hurt.

The trash talking schtick was tired and you got schooled.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 01, 2018, 09:18:32 am
Yep,  thanks Mundine, please stay retired before you get really hurt.

The trash talking schtick was tired and you got schooled.
To his credit, he praised Horn after the fight and said that all the trash talk was part of the "entertainment". My view of Mundine changed ever so slightly for the better last night. He looked old, slow and scared but got in there with a young man who hits very hard. I respect that.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: capcom on December 01, 2018, 10:05:53 am
A fraud and a nobody right thru to the end
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 01, 2018, 12:59:39 pm
A fraud and a nobody right thru to the end
I dont like Mundine much either but a nobody is going a bit far. He has won some world titles.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: DJC on December 01, 2018, 01:26:39 pm
I dont like Mundine much either but a nobody is going a bit far. He has won some world titles.

Interesting assessment from Sven Ottke of the best fighters he faced:

Quote
BEST JAB
ANTHONY MUNDINE: He was giving me the hardest time in the ring. We were very surprised by Mundine’s jab. We only had two or three fights of him and you couldn’t really tell that he had such a great jab. I had to find that out in the ring. He was much better than we thought.

BEST DEFENSE
MUNDINE: It’s difficult to say because I was the defensive guy; everybody had to run after me [Laughs]. Mundine was unpredictable and fast. Until the KO it was a close fight. It was tough to hit him like I wanted to.

FASTEST HANDS
MUNDINE: It was a very difficult fight for me. Until the knockout it was an even fight.

BEST FOOTWORK
MUNDINE: Nobody was as fast as me. I fought lots of Americans and they aren’t that fast on their feet. Robin Reid told me in the ring to fight because he could not hit me. There was no special footwork with my opponents besides, again, Mundine.

BEST CHIN
CHARLES BREWER: It’s a very difficult question, because I’m not a hard puncher. I’m a technical boxer. I hit Brewer with all my power and he didn’t even flinch. It wasn’t my point to hit hard. My point was to move around and be fast.

SMARTEST
MUNDINE: He was a very smart boxer. It was like a chess match when we fought. It was close until the last punch.

STRONGEST
BREWER: Brewer was a naturally strong guy. You could tell from his physique.

BEST PUNCHER
THOMAS TATE: He was a strong boxer with power in his hands. I felt a lot of his punches, especially in our first fight. The second one was different.

BOXING SKILLS
MUNDINE: Mundine had great tactics; he was very fluid. He had a strong mind and a good fighting attitude.

BEST OVERALL
MUNDINE: It was my toughest fight in my whole career, until the knockout.

 
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: laj on December 01, 2018, 01:59:49 pm
Interesting assessment from Sven Ottke of the best fighters he faced:

Ottke retired undefeated as a superstar so he was some fighter.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2018, 02:03:46 pm
Interesting assessment from Sven Ottke of the best fighters he faced:

Yep no doubt Mundine was a very skilled boxer and made up for his lack of punching power by making sure he was
elite in the other area's...
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: laj on December 01, 2018, 02:06:44 pm
A fraud and a nobody right thru to the end

A nobody? Yeah right.

As the promoter of last night's fight said Mundine is the best promoter of a fight ever. Sport flourishes on the good guy/bad guy thing. Ali, who was the best "promoter" ever, did it to a tee, wrestling makes millions on it. Polarise people and they'll pay million just to see you lose. Mundine deliberately pissed people off then counted the millions. After all these years no-where as ever worked it out. The old saying, there's a sucker born every minute. Mundine was one of the best things ever for boxing here. Bought alot of interest to a dying sport. Green, Geale, Soliman, Horn would testify being a part of the "con" counting their dollars.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Thryleon on December 01, 2018, 02:17:02 pm
Ahem..

I didn't even know he was fighting.

Washed up.

The end.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: capcom on December 01, 2018, 02:19:56 pm
I will never forget what he said about 9/11 >:(
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2018, 02:21:48 pm
I will never forget what he said about 9/11 >:(

Dont think any of us will and I dont like him as an individual for that and a whole lot of other things but he
was a skilful boxer and the commentary on here is more about his boxing prowess than his politics...
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: laj on December 01, 2018, 03:17:01 pm
Dont think any of us will and I dont like him as an individual for that and a whole lot of other things but he
was a skilful boxer and the commentary on here is more about his boxing prowess than his politics...

That didn't come out as it should've. No way he meant it that way as he said. Watched a doco online about him yesterday. He explained it so much better.

We only see the showman like we do the likes of, say Hulk Hogan. Remove the camera and the mic and they are entirely different people. SEN said Hogan was pretty quiet away from the mic. Soon as the mic come on everything changed. It's a pretence. Hogan did it as the good guy, Mundine as the bad guy. Pays big $$$$$.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 01, 2018, 03:34:16 pm
That didn't come out as it should've. No way he meant it that way as he said. Watched a doco online about him yesterday. He explained it so much better.

We only see the showman like we do the likes of, say Hulk Hogan. Remove the camera and the mic and they are entirely different people. SEN said Hogan was pretty quiet away from the mic. Soon as the mic come on everything changed. It's a pretence. Hogan did it as the good guy, Mundine as the bad guy. Pays big $$$$$.
Boxing like UFC is a show in itself in the lead up. Choc loves to gob off, any publicity is good publicity. For example, I paid 60 bucks just to watch him get sat on his ass good a proper, mostly fuelled by his antics at the weigh in. As someone else said, he does it to promote the fights, its how it works. I don't think he is the villain he portrays himself to be. On that jungle show he was on, it showed another side of him, almost like a scared, insecure little boy. Perhaps in retirement, he will mellow and we will all see another (better) side. We give criminals chances, he hasn't killed or hurt anyone outside the ring so I'm prepared to give him a go, here's to hoping. A mug fighter he definitely was not.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Lods on December 01, 2018, 06:38:05 pm
Choc likes to shock!
He always has, but he's not the sharpest tool in the shed so some of his 'insights' went just a bit too far.

So in the balance between showmanship and offending he sometimes was closer to the latter.

As a result he will never win a popularity contest.
Despite that this is one of the most talented sportsman Australia has produced.

Only a few rare talents reach the elite level in different sports.

I think Mundine just suffers a bit from the fact that his elite talent was always just a bit  below his own declarations of greatness....and he was judged accordingly.

Would it have been better for him, and would he have been more popular if he had conformed to more 'acceptable' behaviour?

Probably.

Would he have made as much money?

Probably not!
That was the show.




Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: DJC on December 01, 2018, 10:37:44 pm
I think I have mentioned that I met Tony Mundine many years ago.  It was a privilege to meet him, particularly as I had attended many of his fights including his bouts with Kahu Mahanga.  Tony was a very humble bloke with a handshake like a wet fish.  One of my companions said that he had the softest lips she’d ever kissed ????

Choc certainly didn’t inherit his old man’s humbleness and, as Lods suggested, he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I think that he genuinely regrets some of the crap he’s said over the journey but listening to him trying to explain himself is damn painful. At least he admits that he struggles to articulate his thoughts.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 02, 2018, 06:52:31 am
Choc likes to shock!
He always has, but he's not the sharpest tool in the shed so some of his 'insights' went just a bit too far.

So in the balance between showmanship and offending he sometimes was closer to the latter.

As a result he will never win a popularity contest.
Despite that this is one of the most talented sportsman Australia has produced.

Only a few rare talents reach the elite level in different sports.

I think Mundine just suffers a bit from the fact that his elite talent was always just a bit  below his own declarations of greatness....and he was judged accordingly.

Would it have been better for him, and would he have been more popular if he had conformed to more 'acceptable' behaviour?

Probably.

Would he have made as much money?

Probably not!
That was the show.
Perfect summation Lods
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: LP on December 03, 2018, 11:33:01 am
In the end I never got to see this fight, I was running late to get to the pub and it was over by the time I walked in!

From the highlights I've seen Mundine didn't even throw a serious punch, that is bullcrap for the money they get paid!
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 03, 2018, 05:41:11 pm
In the end I never got to see this fight, I was running late to get to the pub and it was over by the time I walked in!

From the highlights I've seen Mundine didn't even throw a serious punch, that is bullcrap for the money they get paid!

Correct LP...Mundine never really threw a punch and was very un Mundine like, heavy in the feet and didnt get the hands up
and was a sparring partner for Horn at best.....Horn threw the only punches and managed to connect but he lacks a bit of sophistication
IMO to go further in boxing...think he got lucky fighting the Pacman who let Horn maul and brawl him and also showed his age...
Horn probably needs a ex pug like Mundine to school him and teach him that raw punching power will only get you so far and that there is always someone with
more power than you and you cant knock everyone out and you have to beat some boxers with technique alone...

Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Professer E on December 03, 2018, 10:25:44 pm
Heard today that Mundine made 38 million over his career.  Running off at the mouth paid a few bills.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: northernblue on December 03, 2018, 11:27:54 pm
Heard today that Mundine made 38 million over his career.  Running off at the mouth paid a few bills.

If only it was as rewarding in here... ????
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: DJC on December 03, 2018, 11:58:56 pm
Heard today that Mundine made 38 million over his career.  Running off at the mouth paid a few bills.

I suspect it's just a little too late for me to change my ways  ...

I used to be a regular at TV Ringside (the first date I ever took Ms DJC ... and I had to crank start the MG afterwards!) but I no longer have the same interest in boxing.  However, anyone who steps into the boxing ring deserves a decent payout and good luck to Mundine if he made $38M.

I heard a bloke take Jon Faine to task on the wireless today.  His comment was along the line that you play footy, hockey or cricket but you don't play boxing.  
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: cookie2 on December 04, 2018, 06:06:47 am
Used to be an avid boxing fan and I well remember getting up in the early hours to watch fights such as Clay v. Liston etc. They would be hot topics of conversation afterwards and sort of linked into some of the momentous social developments of those years. Could not give a stuff about it these days though and certainly never watch any of it.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: LP on December 04, 2018, 08:08:52 am
Correct LP...Mundine never really threw a punch and was very un Mundine like, heavy in the feet and didnt get the hands up....

Cooked before he stepped in EB1!

I'm glad I stayed home and didn't spend all that time waiting for the main bout. It sounds like the undercard was rubbish, and a lot of venues and fans were very unhappy with the event. Some local publicans are in the media today saying they are done paying the thousands of dollars in fees to broadcast Australian fights. Normally at my local they won't let you in that late because they close at 12pm, but by the time the fight started most people had left and a mate sent me a txt to come and watch it as the pub had opened it's doors, further it was offering punters who had actually paid to watch it free drinks. The problem wasn't the late start, the problem was the undercard was rubbish!

When you're organizing the big dance you have to provide plenty of quality dance cards or the fans are going to be very unhappy.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2021, 12:48:13 pm
Never been a fan of Anthony Mundine but he has been a highly skilled boxer and it was sad to see him have to rock up to a fight clearly under equipped and end up on the canvas in the 2nd round. At age 45 he had no hope vs a bloke who had beat Jeff Horn easily who had himself dined out on Mundine in a previous fight.
This fight should not have been allowed to go ahead and Mundine should never have been granted a license to fight especially vs someone with the ability of Zerafa, why not find another old famous Pug and they can dance around till they both get tired hitting fresh air. This was a slaughter and made the controversial sport of boxing look even worse.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2021, 04:26:30 pm
But he da man
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2021, 06:16:19 pm
But he da man
He da old man....and shouldnt have been allowed to fight da young man
Other Boxing news: Sad to see Marvelous Marvin Hagler pass away, possibly the best middle weight boxer ever, tough gig being a pug and not many get to enjoy the money they make in their mid to late years.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2021, 09:10:57 pm
Never been a fan of Anthony Mundine but he has been a highly skilled boxer and it was sad to see him have to rock up to a fight clearly under equipped and end up on the canvas in the 2nd round. At age 45 he had no hope vs a bloke who had beat Jeff Horn easily who had himself dined out on Mundine in a previous fight.
This fight should not have been allowed to go ahead and Mundine should never have been granted a license to fight especially vs someone with the ability of Zerafa, why not find another old famous Pug and they can dance around till they both get tired hitting fresh air. This was a slaughter and made the controversial sport of boxing look even worse.
Ahem, rnd 1. Just retire, he is embarrassing himself.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2021, 10:07:12 pm
National book signing tour GTC  :)
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: madbluboy on March 15, 2021, 08:28:49 am
He da old man....and shouldnt have been allowed to fight da young man
Other Boxing news: Sad to see Marvelous Marvin Hagler pass away, possibly the best middle weight boxer ever, tough gig being a pug and not many get to enjoy the money they make in their mid to late years.

What a fighter he was, they don't make them like him anymore.

Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 15, 2021, 09:38:31 am
What a fighter he was, they don't make them like him anymore.


Yep 7/8 years as the middleweight champ is the 2nd longest title hold ever and he did officially change his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler, only 3 losses and he was one tough hombre.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: DJC on March 15, 2021, 10:18:49 am
Never been a fan of Anthony Mundine but he has been a highly skilled boxer and it was sad to see him have to rock up to a fight clearly under equipped and end up on the canvas in the 2nd round. At age 45 he had no hope vs a bloke who had beat Jeff Horn easily who had himself dined out on Mundine in a previous fight.
This fight should not have been allowed to go ahead and Mundine should never have been granted a license to fight especially vs someone with the ability of Zerafa, why not find another old famous Pug and they can dance around till they both get tired hitting fresh air. This was a slaughter and made the controversial sport of boxing look even worse.

Absolutely.  Allowing old boxers to fight is inexcusable, as are bouts between ageing ex-footballers.  It may be a nice little earner but at what cost in terms of health and wellbeing?
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: sandsmere on March 15, 2021, 10:33:03 am
Horn
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2021, 11:43:29 am
What a fighter he was, they don't make them like him anymore.


Hit Man Hearns v Marvelous Marvin, they were the days.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: kruddler on March 15, 2021, 04:19:58 pm
Absolutely.  Allowing old boxers to fight is inexcusable,

Tell that to George Foreman V2.0.

He won the title 20 years after losing it, at the age of 45.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 15, 2021, 06:53:36 pm
Tell that to George Foreman V2.0.

He won the title 20 years after losing it, at the age of 45.
For every George Foreman how many banged up old pugs are there with brain damage, dementia etc etc etc or have been counted out permanently?
Another George.... Burns lived to 100 smoking cigars but I wouldnt recommend it as a route to a great old age for the majority of us, think George Foreman is very lucky, maybe those fat free grills he has his name on have helped him health wise..😉 along with the 138 million he made from them plus you need to factor in he found religion, was a ordained minister and had some extra help in his corner perhaps...
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: madbluboy on March 15, 2021, 07:58:19 pm
The stars aligned for Foreman. He was losing and landed a big shot against a Moorer who was fortunate to beat Holyfield to have the title in the first place.

Heavyweights can generally fight longer as they don't have to cut weight. Mundine dropping weight as he got older made it worse for him but he was too stupid to realize this.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: kruddler on March 15, 2021, 09:29:01 pm
For every George Foreman how many banged up old pugs are there with brain damage, dementia etc etc etc or have been counted out permanently?
Another George.... Burns lived to 100 smoking cigars but I wouldnt recommend it as a route to a great old age for the majority of us, think George Foreman is very lucky, maybe those fat free grills he has his name on have helped him health wise..😉 along with the 138 million he made from them plus you need to factor in he found religion, was a ordained minister and had some extra help in his corner perhaps...
I'm not saying because he can do it everyone can.....or should.

Just saying, boxers are full of confidence, and there is precedent that it can still be done.
Boxers are full of confidence, but light on for brains generally. So much so that they don't realise its unlikely.

The fact George did it is why others try it.
Title: Re: Horn or Mundine
Post by: LP on March 16, 2021, 01:37:58 pm
The stars aligned for Foreman. He was losing and landed a big shot against a Moorer who was fortunate to beat Holyfield to have the title in the first place.

Heavyweights can generally fight longer as they don't have to cut weight. Mundine dropping weight as he got older made it worse for him but he was too stupid to realize this.
I finally got around to watching this.

Mundine had a mouth but in the past he did match it with some toughness in the ring, I do not think Mundine has ever been a great boxer, but he was tough beyond average, to match his big mouth beyond average, and most of his better victories came delivered survivor style, outlast and outwit!

Going against Zerafa was almost suicide, the old Man Mundine is now soft as hot butter and dribbles just as fast, his reputation is all in the past and he could probably be knocked out by a street vagrant Toby Mitchell style.

It just goes to show you how we judge sport relatively. Put a few old pokes in the ring together and you get a half decent spectacle because they are all going at rat-ar5e pace. Put them in against anyone half-decent and still young and the old blokes will get the living suitcase beat out of them.

Zerafa did the right thing and didn't feck around with Mundine, the fat lady sung, she was singing before that fight started.