Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on September 12, 2020, 10:45:11 am

Title: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: crashlander on September 12, 2020, 10:45:11 am
Ready to go.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 13, 2020, 03:31:33 pm
So....who are we going to pick up in the draft this year?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: crashlander on September 13, 2020, 03:34:23 pm
What can I say? Truly awful. Lost on the selection table. Lost in our attitude. Simply not good enough.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Mantis on September 13, 2020, 03:34:53 pm
So....who are we going to pick up in the draft this year?

Something we really need to get right. Need to top up on players with kicking skills and genuine speed. IMO only.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on September 13, 2020, 03:37:20 pm
What can I say? Truly awful. Lost on the selection table. Lost in our attitude. Simply not good enough.

Not a lot to add to that. Abysmal  maybe?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 13, 2020, 03:39:21 pm
Commentators hit the nail on the head, the gap btw our best and worst is just too large.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: spf on September 13, 2020, 03:41:48 pm
We will probably have pick 6 as it stands in the draft. If Gold Coast can jag another win we may end up with pick 5.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 13, 2020, 03:45:26 pm
We will probably have pick 6 as it stands in the draft. If Gold Coast can jag another win we may end up with pick 5.
All the better to trade for Papley then.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 03:57:23 pm
All the better to trade for Papley then.
Going to need another quality mid, cant get it done with the ones we have....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 13, 2020, 04:02:08 pm
Going to need another quality mid, cant get it done with the ones we have....
EB are the goalless qtrs and goal runs by oppo personnel coaching or both
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 13, 2020, 04:03:52 pm
Crows have won three on the trot and look very different from what they showed most of the season. I was expecting to win, but they played good footy today. We outscored them in the last 2q, so whilst it was far from great..................
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 13, 2020, 04:07:52 pm
Not that it made a difference but why pic Doc knowing that he had a suspect calf?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Macca37 on September 13, 2020, 04:11:50 pm
As well as addressing the usual issues - lack of ability, abysmal kicking skills, etc, surely we need to find out what is causing these dreadful first halves of football.

It's like watching somebody who has had a drug overdose being given an antidote injection and suddenly spring to their feet.

We can't go into 2021 season fearing a repeat of this season's many bad first half starts.  Is Teague responsible?  The coaching staff in general?  Do we need to employ sports psychologists?



Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Spanner on September 13, 2020, 04:12:47 pm
Crows have won three on the trot
And when was the last time Carlton won 3 in a row?

I'm not sure what is more difficult! When was the last time Carlton hit 3 targets in a row in a chain of possessions?  :D
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 13, 2020, 04:17:55 pm
And when was the last time Carlton won 3 in a row?

...........

4 in a row - R5,6,7,8 2016.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Micky0 on September 13, 2020, 04:18:20 pm
Our kicking was an absolute disgrace today. No if’s or buts.

Having to claw back a huge lead last game, saw us with no energy.  Even Walsh looked lacklustre today.

Season over. I hope we put in a good FOUR QUARTER effort next game. Just once I’d like to watch us play and enjoy the entire game- win or lose.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Micky0 on September 13, 2020, 04:20:31 pm
Not that it made a difference but why pic Doc knowing that he had a suspect calf?
We have to trust the medical staff don’t we?
 
Such a huge disappointment, we still had a chance of finals and that was the tripe they served up
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Spanner on September 13, 2020, 04:27:01 pm
4 in a row - R5,6,7,8 2016.
So it was recent then?  ::)

You make it sound like it's something to be proud of instead of it being an indictment on the club. Probably was the last time we hit 3 targets in a row in a chain of possessions as well.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 13, 2020, 04:27:46 pm
So it was recent then?  ::)

You make it sound like it's something to be proud of instead of it being an indictment on the club. Probably was the last time we hit 3 targets in a row in a chain of possessions as well.

You asked a question and I gave you an answer.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 13, 2020, 04:33:44 pm
Clearly there's a tonne of work to do, but I think today the boys were cooked. The Crows killed us on the outside. The tackles, contested ball, inside 50's, turnovers, disposal efficiency etc. all roughly even. The boys fought it out, but no doubt that was one of our worst performances for the year.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 04:38:32 pm
EB are the goalless qtrs and goal runs by oppo personnel coaching or both
I'll go both, Teague moves players late, thats his style, we also dont have the leadership to sense a momentum build up and slow the game down. Even the Crows late diffused our run with some time wasting short stuff which led to a goal.
We need to do that when they kick 2-3 in a row and get things back level..
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Mantis on September 13, 2020, 04:42:17 pm
Brisbane in our last game could be a record loss for the season. We seriously couldn’t be even slightly competitive in our last game. Please play as many kids as possible and rest any players that are less than 95% ready to go. Nothing to gain in the last game. Not worth risking serious injuries to players we need ready to go next season. Papley, Williams or Graham might not come our way. A side struggling to stay out of the bottom 4. As always we carry too many passengers. Let’s see what happens in the weeks ahead. Not confident we are the go to club. Other clubs rejects maybe.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Spanner on September 13, 2020, 04:45:22 pm
Clearly there's a tonne of work to do, but I think today the boys were cooked. The Crows killed us on the outside. The tackles, contested ball, inside 50's, turnovers, disposal efficiency etc. all roughly even. The boys fought it out, but no doubt that was one of our worst performances for the year.
You make it sound like this was a one off. That's the issue with you "blue coloured glasses" brigade. You fail to acknowledge the short comings of a myriad of players on the list year in year out just like the club.

You can't polish a turd. You guys keep picking it up and placing on the polishing wheel in the hope that your efforts reveal some kind of brown diamond.

I'm afraid brown diamonds aren't worth much because as Marc Murphy, the biggest brown diamond of them all has shown, a turd is always a turd.  :D
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Inboltswetrust on September 13, 2020, 04:48:53 pm
Disgusting.  Teaugue's coaching awful conceding 7 goal start again.  Players laughing and celebrating Bryce Gibbs at the end of the game says it all.  Yeah real funny blues.  We just lost to the bottom of the ladder and blew our weak, but still mathematically possible finals chances.  
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Inboltswetrust on September 13, 2020, 04:51:47 pm
You make it sound like this was a one off. That's the issue with you "blue coloured glasses" brigade. You fail to acknowledge the short comings of a myriad of players on the list year in year out just like the club.

You are very very correct in your assessment Spanner.  Truth is, you are sick of it.  Unlike many others who put on the rose colored glasses and everything will be fine, you face the truth.  So do I.    We are lucky to have won 7. Realistically we could have won 3 and be bottom of the ladder.  This, when we've recruited older players to complement our system, and on the back of a painful rebuild with more draft picks thrown at us than the GWS.  It's a bloody disgrace and the club is not the club it was when it was great.  This stems from the board and the horriffic draft selections and build plan of Silvangni.  The coach?  What a joke.  Another first year outter which will take 6 years to develop.  I'm very very angry tonight.

You can't polish a turd. You guys keep picking it up and placing on the polishing wheel in the hope that your efforts reveal some kind of brown diamond.

I'm afraid brown diamonds aren't worth much because as Marc Murphy, the biggest brown diamond of them all has shown, a turd is always a turd.  :D
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Inboltswetrust on September 13, 2020, 04:53:58 pm
We will probably have pick 6 as it stands in the draft. If Gold Coast can jag another win we may end up with pick 5.

Yep.  And add these to the other 60 picks we've had in the last 4 years. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 04:55:19 pm
Clearly there's a tonne of work to do, but I think today the boys were cooked. The Crows killed us on the outside. The tackles, contested ball, inside 50's, turnovers, disposal efficiency etc. all roughly even. The boys fought it out, but no doubt that was one of our worst performances for the year.
Crows should have won by more, their kid like forward line stuffed a few easy ones and we got lucky to be close IMO.
They won the game in the middle with Obrien and their experienced midfield group..
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Lods on September 13, 2020, 04:59:08 pm
That was just so disappointing.
The Crows looked more like a team playing for a finals spot than we did.
I know there was a bit of banter at the end with Gibbs but the players didn't look to be a 'hurting bunch'  bunch who had just lost their finals chance.
They look like side that's checked out....and next week could be very ugly.

We've developed some terrible habits...some of those will be difficult to break.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: spf on September 13, 2020, 05:00:02 pm
Yep.  And add these to the other 60 picks we've had in the last 4 years. 

Then start trading for ready made players. Leave O'Brien and Dow in the reserves to mature while we go with older established players. Lachie Hunter may be available, make offers and see what the thinking is out there.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 05:08:55 pm
It was very bruise free game IMO, not much real intent on heavy contesting and both teams wanted an open game played on the weak side where they could get players free. The matey stuff didnt help with the Gibbs/Murphy/Simpson love triangle but when you are playing for finals we needed to be intimidating a very young and inexperienced Crows team and making a statement.
Lachy Scholl played a very nice game but we were oh so friendly how we let him get so much ball, space and time and you have to wonder what Teague was telling our blokes...it looked like tackle but dont hurt them?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on September 13, 2020, 05:10:38 pm
Disgusting.  Teaugue's coaching awful conceding 7 goal start again.  Players laughing and celebrating Bryce Gibbs at the end of the game says it all.  Yeah real funny blues.  We just lost to the bottom of the ladder and blew our weak, but still mathematically possible finals chances.

I'm afraid that is very much the truth of it. Made a bit of a mockery of the letter we recently got from the club.  :o
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 13, 2020, 05:11:42 pm
https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=4885.0

If we revisit this topic, you will see that most were thinking we would finish between 10th and 14th. That thread was of course before the pandemic, but Its good to see that most had what I consider to be realistic expectations.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 05:11:55 pm
As well as addressing the usual issues - lack of ability, abysmal kicking skills, etc, surely we need to find out what is causing these dreadful first halves of football.

It's like watching somebody who has had a drug overdose being given an antidote injection and suddenly spring to their feet.

We can't go into 2021 season fearing a repeat of this season's many bad first half starts.  Is Teague responsible?  The coaching staff in general?  Do we need to employ sports psychologists?
13-14 is a big improvement on 4-40. Wasn't turning everything around in a year, especially that losing culture. Will take more time. Hardwick took years to turn around Richmond's horrible losing culture.

13-14, given where we were, is more than acceptable but, at the same time, not good enough given it was total mental aspects, whether it's handling the heat when finals are on the line, or simply switching on, that has cost us playing finals. That's in no doubt. Most disappointed with today that they couldn't switched on in a game so important. Actually, was quite disgusted. While we'd have taken 7 or 8 wins at the start of the year it's turned out that our season was totally wasted. The only way it won't be is if we don't learn from it.

Ironic our season finished the way it started, with horrid first halves, and it did our season in the end. Let's just hope we don't do the usual "put cue in the rack" last round performance.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 05:17:58 pm
That was just so disappointing.
The Crows looked more like a team playing for a finals spot than we did.
I know there was a bit of banter at the end with Gibbs but the players didn't look to be a 'hurting bunch'  bunch who had just lost their finals chance.
They look like side that's checked out....and next week could be very ugly.

We've developed some terrible habits...some of those will be difficult to break.

Yes, most of 20 years of terrible, uncaring habits, that won't change in a season. Looks like they had given up their finals chance after the GWS game. Unfortunately, when you've spent years giving in so easily in games it's takes quite a while to change.

Hopefully next week we fight it out. It's the one thing we have done all year at least. If we somehow won, and that would be so Carlton, I think i'd even be more frustrated.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 05:23:59 pm
https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=4885.0

If we revisit this topic, you will see that most were thinking we would finish between 10th and 14th. That thread was of course before the pandemic, but Its good to see that most had what I consider to be realistic expectations.

Yes, 7 wins this season is about 9.25 in a regular season, 10.4 if we were to somehow fluke a win next week. We'd have taken between 9 or 10 at the start of the year, and it's probably a good result given where we were, but it feels a waste now. I feel we are a better side than a few above us competing for a finals spot but mentally blew it when no switching on or $hitting the bed when the finals were on the line. Unfortunately comes down to totally lacking belief.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 05:26:51 pm
Still not out of it. If Hawthorn can  make up the 28pt deficit, all the sides above us lose from here, and we beat Brisbane by 110pts we're in!!!! Hahaha!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Macca37 on September 13, 2020, 05:35:51 pm
Yes, 7 wins this season is about 9.25 in a regular season, 10.4 if we were to somehow fluke a win next week. We'd have taken between 9 or 10 at the start of the year, and it's probably a good result given where we were, but it feels a waste now. I feel we are a better side than a few above us competing for a finals spot but mentally blew it when no switching on or $hitting the bed when the finals were on the line. Unfortunately comes down to totally lacking belief.

Yes, at the start of the season I would have taken  or 10 wins, but what I did not expect was the way we continued to lose games.  We seem to have mental attitude problems which affect skill levels.  In parts of games we have shown very good skill levels and five minutes later we drop our standards to the Reserve level of VFL sides.

Agree there is a total lack of belief.  Just look at our players attitude at the end of today's game.  Not one player seemed concerned at throwing away a chance of making the final 8.  Yet they'll put their hands out for their pay packet
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: shawny on September 13, 2020, 05:48:14 pm
Going to need another quality mid, cant get it done with the ones we have....
I have been saying this for the last 3 years!! We have failed every time at the trade table and i don't think this period will be any different as losses like this at the end of the year dont exactly breed confidence we are leaping up the ladder.

I keep hearing the likes of SPS, Kennedy, Fisher, Setterfield, Polson, Dow, Cunningham will take up the slack and turn into the midfield players we desperately needed. Been 5 years for some of these blokes - enough being positive- Enough waiting while teams continue to break away from us.  

This is why going after Papely is a massive mistake IMO. So what if he wants to come to us - we don't need that sort of player anywhere near as much as we need another inside mid and 2x outside clean using mids.

How many games have we lost because of not having a specialist small forward as opposed to not having any midfield depth at all!
Papely is a very good footballer but he is not what we need and getting him and missing to fill the massive gaps in the middle will further highlight how dumb an organization we have become.         

And if we sign Eddie and Simmo up we also highlight the above point.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 05:54:46 pm
I have been saying this for the last 3 years!! We have failed every time at the trade table and i don't think this period will be any different as losses like this at the end of the year dont exactly breed confidence we are leaping up the ladder.

I keep hearing the likes of SPS, Kennedy, Fisher, Setterfield, Polson, Dow, Cunningham will take up the slack and turn into the midfield players we desperately needed. Been 5 years for some of these blokes - enough being positive- Enough waiting while teams continue to break away from us.  

This is why going after Papely is a massive mistake IMO. So what if he wants to come to us - we don't need that sort of player anywhere near as much as we need another inside mid and 2x outside clean using mids.

How many games have we lost because of not having a specialist small forward as opposed to not having any midfield depth at all!
Papely is a very good footballer but he is not what we need and getting him and missing to fill the massive gaps in the middle will further highlight how dumb an organization we have become.         

And if we sign Eddie and Simmo up we also highlight the above point.

We need belief, a mental attitude and a culture. If we had that we'd we'd be playing next month. If we have that then watch the rest fall more into place. Type of players will do nothing unless that is sorted.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: bmaurizio on September 13, 2020, 06:08:10 pm
Agree , Eddie & Simmo should follow Matty, the  time has come after illustrious careers. List needs tonbe throughly reviewed we’re carrying plenty , Lang , Kennedy, Polson, Silvagni has disappeared?and some players just can’t get on the park. There much to do before presenting a viabile playing list for 2021 campaign.
Mitch.McGovern, Curnow Charlie & Caleb Marchbank all three are continuously struggling to get over their injuries and a real concern.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 06:12:53 pm
We need belief, a mental attitude and a culture. If we had that we'd we'd be playing next month. If we have that then watch the rest fall more into place. Type of players will do nothing unless that is sorted.
Jim, After a while you just have to get ruthless and aim higher...we got beat today by a bunch of kids and a B grade midfield who are the bottom team, it was a regression and clearly we lack in mental toughness as you say as well as some skills.
This was clearly the old Carlton with some of the old Carlton players doing the same stuff and checking out thinking it was an easy game. We should have belted the Crows and there has to be retribution or it will keep happening and Teague will come under pressure and we all know it wont be a happy ending...
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 06:29:53 pm
Jim, After a while you just have to get ruthless and aim higher...we got beat today by a bunch of kids and a B grade midfield who are the bottom team, it was a regression and clearly we lack in mental toughness as you say as well as some skills.
This was clearly the old Carlton with some of the old Carlton players doing the same stuff and checking out thinking it was an easy game. We should have belted the Crows and there has to be retribution or it will keep happening and Teague will come under pressure and we all know it wont be a happy ending...

Essentially culture, mental attitude and belief.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 06:36:13 pm
Dogs are in the 8 and are the only ones that deserve to make it. They're the only ones not to have blown gold-plated opportunities. Melbourne, GWS and Carlton all gifted chances and pissed them down the drain.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Lods on September 13, 2020, 06:56:17 pm
I guess for me the concern is this....
We're probably finishing about where many of us expected.
That's fine....
But we seem to be finishing the season with a bit of a 'whimper' rather than a 'bang'
It would be nice to go into the off-season with 'momentum" rather than 'question marks.'
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 07:05:05 pm
I guess for me the concern is this....
We're probably finishing about where many of us expected.
That's fine....
But we seem to be finishing the season with a bit of a 'whimper' rather than a 'bang'
It would be nice to go into the off-season with 'momentum" rather than 'question marks.'

Pricks will likely go win next week. That might piss us off even more.

Losing when we choked it up was bad enough but less of a concern because we worked hard to pt ourselves in the right position. Frustrating but that's the life of a developing side. When they just don't turn up to play and give half an effort until it's too late that is an issue.

We ended up as we expected but got there is pretty bizarre ways. In the end what we would've taken at the start of the year turned out disappointing as it could've been so much better, due the issues between the lugholes.

In the end Melbourne, GWS and us were similar. Given chances and wasted them.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 07:07:20 pm
Pricks will likely go win next week. That might piss us off even more.

Losing when we choked it up was bad enough but less of a concern because we worked hard to pt ourselves in the right position. Frustrating but that's the life of a developing side. When they just don't turn up to play and give half an effort until it's too late that is an issue.

We ended up as we expected but got there is pretty bizarre ways. In the end what we would've taken at the start of the year turned out disappointing as it could've been so much better, due the issues between the lugholes.

In the end Melbourne, GWS and us were similar. Given chances and wasted them.
GWS have the talent but lack the ruthless streak and I put it down to the coaching, they should be top 4, why they re-signed Leon Cameron I dont know....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 13, 2020, 07:09:12 pm
I guess for me the concern is this....
We're probably finishing about where many of us expected.
That's fine....
But we seem to be finishing the season with a bit of a 'whimper' rather than a 'bang'
It would be nice to go into the off-season with 'momentum" rather than 'question marks.'

I disagree.

We had that last year and what did it give us?

I reckon we are better off this way.
We had a good year, but complacency cost us a spot in the finals. This is what happens when you slack off. We need a big off-season to take the next step.

We need the fire in the belly. We need the hurt. We need to realise its not just going to happen for us.
A good, happy ending can mask that.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 07:16:44 pm
GWS have the talent but lack the ruthless streak and I put it down to the coaching, they should be top 4, why they re-signed Leon Cameron I dont know....

I couldn't believed they re-signed him. This is a side that should be near on top of the ladder not missing the finals.

Maybe he'll be like Bomber and Hardwick, have that one bad year before winning a flag. Not sure though as he should've by now with that talent.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: capcom on September 13, 2020, 07:17:47 pm
Essentially culture, mental attitude and belief.

... and too many supposed line coaches when the one we need is a scruff of the neck leader who tells it like it is. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Baggers on September 13, 2020, 07:38:15 pm
I had to watch the game again, just to be sure. What a mess. No Mr Teague you didn't let down the supporters today, you let down yourselves... time for the entire coaching group to stand in front of the full length mirrors.

Mssrs LoGuidice and Liddle had better take note of that knock on the door - it's reality. The senior coach and others can talk up the season all they like, the results and the performances speak far louder. We're brittle. We are completely unable to do the very basics -- esp disposal -- well, under any and all circumstances. The only thing we are any good at, at present, is fighting back... and then only to a degree. And beating the Dishlickers. Totally insecure in being pro active, and maintaining it.

To the same degree that we could have won a couple of close ones we could also, easily, have lost a couple of close ones and find ourselves about 15th or worse. Fragile between the lugholes, way too undisciplined, too indecisive, poor leadership. No mental toughness bar a few players... very few.

The good: Walsh & Weitering, they should be skippers. Their efforts are unconditional.

The bad: Mentality. The club has been talking all year about our inability to play 4 qtrs... how observant. News flash, whatever you're doing about it aint fckn working, do you realise that? Do you realise this is a major issue and has been for years? Do you realise the problem may lie with those within the coaching group? The game plan? The communication, ie, the players don't get it? Is there 360 feedback within the coaching group? For the problem to be identified and then for it to perpetuate says we must have some flaky dimwits with the coaching group... that is the only conclusion that makes sense as it's same old, same old, week after week, month after month, win, lose or draw.

Bringing out of form players into the side... specifically, McGovern and Cuningham this week. Yes, they both got possessions once the Crows tired but when they were needed most, early, tumbleweeds and crickets. ALL places in the side MUST be earned. There's a softness (sentimentality?) in our MC that is costing us confidence. NO MORE FAVOURITES, MR TEAGUE, or whoever is conning you into playing blokes who shouldn't be played.

So little tenacity. So little ruthlessness. So few of our blokes are uncompromising. How many jogged to the next contest today. How many gave up chases early? That's about leadership, discipline and direction, on and off the field.

The Ugly: Our disposal. That we really can only get on top of opponents when they relax or are in poor form, and then only for a while. A totally reactive side - a solid 10-16th yearly.

I don't agree that Simmo and Edwardo should be retired... if you didn't know their ages you'd see that both did their jobs today. Sheesh, at one stage Simmo had more metres gained than any other CFC bloke. Edwardo was desperate in the contest with pressure and energy - but had p1ss poor support.

In a difficult season with abnormal pressures the mentally weakest will fold soonest... the mentally strongest will likely win the flag.

Solution thoughts: change whatever we're doing re mental attitude, it is clearly NOT working. There's enough talent on our list to be doing far better than this, just seems to me they are being poorly or inadequately developed and trained. We hear that fckn word 'growth' all the damn time, yet we do not see it. So... get some hard edged assistant coaches, from successful environments who've a history of uncompromising excellence.

Hate to say it but I won't be getting my membership for next year early as I have done for decades. I'm going to wait to well into next season... more of the same, basic support no game membership, palpable improvement... then the wallet opens far wider.

I am off the TT. He's got next year to prove himself. More of the same... FO. So you'd better get some real performers in the coaching team.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 13, 2020, 07:46:00 pm
I had to watch the game again, just to be sure.

Be sure of what?

Surely there is something better you to be doing
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LP on September 13, 2020, 07:46:44 pm
We're brittle. We are completely unable to do the very basics -- esp disposal -- well, under any and all circumstances.
This is my biggest worry, to me it seems that we've been unable to improve our disposal for more than a decade now. I just do not get it from guys who get to this level unable to execute basic kicks.

I get the under-physical pressure stuff but that is not the problem. We have blokes often in the clear by 20m regularly missing 40m targets by 5m or 10m, which might not do harm if a team-mate cleans up but it nearly always allows the opposition extra time to get setup!

I also do not get full-time AFL players regularly hand-balling behind a passing team-mates, we do it so so often!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 13, 2020, 07:49:40 pm
I had to watch the game again, just to be sure. What a mess. No Mr Teague you didn't let down the supporters today, you let down yourselves... time for the entire coaching group to stand in front of the full length mirrors.

Mssrs LoGuidice and Liddle had better take note of that knock on the door - it's reality. The senior coach and others can talk up the season all they like, the results and the performances speak far louder. We're brittle. We are completely unable to do the very basics -- esp disposal -- well, under any and all circumstances. The only thing we are any good at, at present, is fighting back... and then only to a degree. And beating the Dishlickers. Totally insecure in being pro active, and maintaining it.

To the same degree that we could have won a couple of close ones we could also, easily, have lost a couple of close ones and find ourselves about 15th or worse. Fragile between the lugholes, way too undisciplined, too indecisive, poor leadership. No mental toughness bar a few players... very few.

The good: Walsh & Weitering, they should be skippers. Their efforts are unconditional.

The bad: Mentality. The club has been talking all year about our inability to play 4 qtrs... how observant. News flash, whatever you're doing about it aint fckn working, do you realise that? Do you realise this is a major issue and has been for years? Do you realise the problem may lie with those within the coaching group? The game plan? The communication, ie, the players don't get it? Is there 360 feedback within the coaching group? For the problem to be identified and then for it to perpetuate says we must have some flaky dimwits with the coaching group... that is the only conclusion that makes sense as it's same old, same old, week after week, month after month, win, lose or draw.

Bringing out of form players into the side... specifically, McGovern and Cuningham this week. Yes, they both got possessions once the Crows tired but when they were needed most, early, tumbleweeds and crickets. ALL places in the side MUST be earned. There's a softness (sentimentality?) in our MC that is costing us confidence. NO MORE FAVOURITES, MR TEAGUE, or whoever is conning you into playing blokes who shouldn't be played.

So little tenacity. So little ruthlessness. So few of our blokes are uncompromising. How many jogged to the next contest today. How many gave up chases early? That's about leadership, discipline and direction, on and off the field.

The Ugly: Our disposal. That we really can only get on top of opponents when they relax or are in poor form, and then only for a while. A totally reactive side - a solid 10-16th yearly.

I don't agree that Simmo and Edwardo should be retired... if you didn't know their ages you'd see that both did their jobs today. Sheesh, at one stage Simmo had more metres gained than any other CFC bloke. Edwardo was desperate in the contest with pressure and energy - but had p1ss poor support.

In a difficult season with abnormal pressures the mentally weakest will fold soonest... the mentally strongest will likely win the flag.

Solution thoughts: change whatever we're doing re mental attitude, it is clearly NOT working. There's enough talent on our list to be doing far better than this, just seems to me they are being poorly or inadequately developed and trained. We hear that fckn word 'growth' all the damn time, yet we do not see it. So... get some hard edged assistant coaches, from successful environments who've a history of uncompromising excellence.

Hate to say it but I won't be getting my membership for next year early as I have done for decades. I'm going to wait to well into next season... more of the same, basic support no game membership, palpable improvement... then the wallet opens far wider.

I am off the TT. He's got next year to prove himself. More of the same... FO. So you'd better get some real performers in the coaching team.
Ill save myself the typing and just say x2
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Spanner on September 13, 2020, 07:53:40 pm
Be sure of what?

Surely there is something better you to be doing
Mate you're on fire! Do you write these yourself? So original and thought provoking! I hang on every word.

Normally, I so look forward to scrolling past your contributions, but today you've out done yourself and everyone on the site must surely be salivating in anticipation of your next insight...  ::)
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 13, 2020, 07:56:30 pm
Be sure of what?

Surely there is something better you to be doing
Like last week, I had to turn it off after they kicked their 6th, too frustrating and too hard to watch.
As I have said before, sack Cameron Bruce tonight, our fwd line is talented but shambolic and has no method or structure. He is the fwd line coach, he must be sacked tonight. Find a new fwd line coach pronto.
Smashed in the ruck, smashed at the coal face, smashed by a side that nothing to play for. Terrible at the selection table, just went horribly wrong when everything was on line. Typical, consistently inconsistent.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 07:57:03 pm
This is my biggest worry, to me it seems that we've been unable to improve our disposal for more than a decade now. I just do not get it from guys who get to this level unable to execute basic kicks.

I get the under-physical pressure stuff but that is not the problem. We have blokes often in the clear by 20m regularly missing 40m targets by 5m or 10m, which might not do harm if a team-mate cleans up but it nearly always allows the opposition extra time to get setup!

I also do not get full-time AFL players regularly hand-balling behind a passing team-mates, we do it so so often!

If the players commit themselves fully to the task you watch how everything else improves. We don't switch on properly so this is what happens.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 13, 2020, 08:05:56 pm
Like last week, I had to turn it off after they kicked their 6th, too frustrating and too hard to watch.
As I have said before, sack Cameron Bruce tonight, our fwd line is talented but shambolic and has no method or structure. He is the fwd line coach, he must be sacked tonight. Find a new fwd line coach pronto.
Smashed in the ruck, smashed at the coal face, smashed by a side that nothing to play for. Terrible at the selection table, just went horribly wrong when everything was on line. Typical, consistently inconsistent.
You can add Barker to Bruce, another link to a failed past and our midfield setup today was smashed off the park. How we start is a reflection of where the game starts and we are always chasing ar$e after a glut of poor starts and Barker should be moved on.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 08:06:50 pm
I had to watch the game again, just to be sure. What a mess. No Mr Teague you didn't let down the supporters today, you let down yourselves... time for the entire coaching group to stand in front of the full length mirrors.

Mssrs LoGuidice and Liddle had better take note of that knock on the door - it's reality. The senior coach and others can talk up the season all they like, the results and the performances speak far louder. We're brittle. We are completely unable to do the very basics -- esp disposal -- well, under any and all circumstances. The only thing we are any good at, at present, is fighting back... and then only to a degree. And beating the Dishlickers. Totally insecure in being pro active, and maintaining it.

To the same degree that we could have won a couple of close ones we could also, easily, have lost a couple of close ones and find ourselves about 15th or worse. Fragile between the lugholes, way too undisciplined, too indecisive, poor leadership. No mental toughness bar a few players... very few.

The good: Walsh & Weitering, they should be skippers. Their efforts are unconditional.

The bad: Mentality. The club has been talking all year about our inability to play 4 qtrs... how observant. News flash, whatever you're doing about it aint fckn working, do you realise that? Do you realise this is a major issue and has been for years? Do you realise the problem may lie with those within the coaching group? The game plan? The communication, ie, the players don't get it? Is there 360 feedback within the coaching group? For the problem to be identified and then for it to perpetuate says we must have some flaky dimwits with the coaching group... that is the only conclusion that makes sense as it's same old, same old, week after week, month after month, win, lose or draw.

Bringing out of form players into the side... specifically, McGovern and Cuningham this week. Yes, they both got possessions once the Crows tired but when they were needed most, early, tumbleweeds and crickets. ALL places in the side MUST be earned. There's a softness (sentimentality?) in our MC that is costing us confidence. NO MORE FAVOURITES, MR TEAGUE, or whoever is conning you into playing blokes who shouldn't be played.

So little tenacity. So little ruthlessness. So few of our blokes are uncompromising. How many jogged to the next contest today. How many gave up chases early? That's about leadership, discipline and direction, on and off the field.

The Ugly: Our disposal. That we really can only get on top of opponents when they relax or are in poor form, and then only for a while. A totally reactive side - a solid 10-16th yearly.

I don't agree that Simmo and Edwardo should be retired... if you didn't know their ages you'd see that both did their jobs today. Sheesh, at one stage Simmo had more metres gained than any other CFC bloke. Edwardo was desperate in the contest with pressure and energy - but had p1ss poor support.

In a difficult season with abnormal pressures the mentally weakest will fold soonest... the mentally strongest will likely win the flag.

Solution thoughts: change whatever we're doing re mental attitude, it is clearly NOT working. There's enough talent on our list to be doing far better than this, just seems to me they are being poorly or inadequately developed and trained. We hear that fckn word 'growth' all the damn time, yet we do not see it. So... get some hard edged assistant coaches, from successful environments who've a history of uncompromising excellence.

Hate to say it but I won't be getting my membership for next year early as I have done for decades. I'm going to wait to well into next season... more of the same, basic support no game membership, palpable improvement... then the wallet opens far wider.

I am off the TT. He's got next year to prove himself. More of the same... FO. So you'd better get some real performers in the coaching team.

13-14 is much better than 4-40. There are many aspects we have improved. Coaching has been ok. we can't be expecting miracles. we were actually in the season to round 17, alot better than discussing the no.1 pick. Culture change is huge, that was Teague's mountain he was left with after 20 years, bar a few, of that crap, and easy to slip back into, which we did a few too many times. That doesn't always change in a season. Hardwick took years. We fought just about every game out, which was something alot better but too many times we slipped back to old habits at the start or during games.

With that change eventually comes a tipping point. We needed the leaders to come out and say, "that's not good enough" and make everyone accountable. Making it come from within the group itself. That's what happened in 2007 when Geelong had failed the year before. After starting 2-3 Paul Chapman spat it and told the playing group, in no uncertain terms, that it wasn't good enough. Lost one more for the year and won the flag by 119pts. Haven't looked back. Think there was something similar in 1995. we lost a practice match to Essendon by over 100pts after an inglorious finish to 1994. Leaders took control and said enough was enough, with the result there for all to see. Sometimes a coach can only push it so many times and it has to come from within.

Who's our leader that's going to stand up and say "@#$%&! this"?

We're in about the same position after the first year with Ratten but got cut short before he could sort our culture further. Teague needs a further step and properly crack the poor culture. Remember too Teague has been very limited this year. He has mostly been able to train with just 8 at a time. Not alot of connect happening there. That favors the more established sides with entrenched, natural game styles.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 13, 2020, 08:13:13 pm
Mate you're on fire! Do you write these yourself? So original and thought provoking! I hang on every word.

Normally, I so look forward to scrolling past your contributions, but today you've out done yourself and everyone on the site must surely be salivating in anticipation of your next insight...  ::)

...and thats strike 3.
You're out.

3 completely misunderstood posts.
3 completely inane responses highlighting nothing more than you inability to comprehend basic communications.

All of your responses are nothing but inane ramblings repeated ad nauseum.
You do little apart from attack posters, personally.
Or attack players you have a beef what.....with little evidence backing it up.

What starting this beef nobody cares to wonder about.
Why you continue this beef, nobody wastes time thinking about.
People are bored with your repetition and bored with your stock standard BS comments.

You offer zero insight.
You offer zero facts.
You offer zero entertainment value.
You offer zero.

You are a one-note joke that was never funny to begin with.
Learn a different tune.

You look at posts in isolation and fill in the blanks. Completely ignoring pages and pages of discussion, context and facts.
It does nothing other than make you look silly, ignorant and uninformed.

If you dialled back your spannerisms, you might find some common ground with people. Instead your constant grandstanding and backpatting leaves you all alone on spanner island.
 
Give me something!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 08:13:38 pm
You can add Barker to Bruce, another link to a failed past and our midfield setup today was smashed off the park. How we start is a reflection of where the game starts and we are always chasing ar$e after a glut of poor starts and Barker should be moved on.

We lacked that connect between mids and forward coaches, which Teague has lamented all year. It was the same when Teague was forward coach. Being able to train only with 8 at a times, and with a lot less sessions certainly hasn't helped. You don't even get the chance to try to practice connecting.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Lods on September 13, 2020, 08:14:18 pm
I disagree.

We had that last year and what did it give us?

I reckon we are better off this way.
We had a good year, but complacency cost us a spot in the finals. This is what happens when you slack off. We need a big off-season to take the next step.

We need the fire in the belly. We need the hurt. We need to realise its not just going to happen for us.
A good, happy ending can mask that.

We'll agree to disagree on some points and not others.
I feel less confident about the future of this side going into the 2020 off-season than I did going into the 2019 off-season.
The ending we need (ed) to see is pressure, commitment and unity
That's not masking a problem.
That's showing  we're advancing.

I don't think what we've witnessed over the last few weeks is complacency.
I think it was more a dropping of the bundle.
A decline into a rabble.
Players playing for themselves and not as a unit
To my mind  the players had had enough of this season and just wanted to get it done and dusted.
Do you really think they were 'hurting' there this afternoon.
Smiling, laughing, sharing good times with former team-mates. (not just Gibbs)
What I saw was more likely 'relief' that our  finals chances were gone and they could go home soon.

On your second point I totally agree. We need a big off-season. A harsh, ,tough off -season.
Reduction in list sizes may be more dramatic than we assume...it may be that to add draft and trades into the side a much greater number  of players are on the chopping block.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 13, 2020, 08:21:59 pm
I had to watch the game again, just to be sure.

You did what??? Lol!

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Mantis on September 13, 2020, 08:29:58 pm
Lots of hard work to do and injecting more talent. Some of these guys can’t be carried. Some will eventually cut it, but some are showing signs they never will.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: capcom on September 13, 2020, 08:30:49 pm
Baggers .... it's thoughts such as those that are far more direct and on point than we're unlikely to hear in most other places.  That was one godawful performance.  
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Micky0 on September 13, 2020, 09:02:55 pm
Still Pissed off with that display.

Reckon they decided a few games ago finals was out of the equation and played accordingly - I remember Cripps’ post Sydney game interview and he said how they’re learning the hard way and the commentator Made a comment about how mathematically possible
It was to still make Finals, and Cripps said more along the lines of its good to learn for next season - not showing any excitement or closeness to a finals spot
At all.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on September 13, 2020, 09:24:24 pm
Don't know where to start. Awful performance across the board.   Being beaten by a better side I can handle (just)  but being beaten by a lack of effort and application is unacceptable.

And dumb ass selections and rubbish coaching... We can't go forwards until we get this stuff sorted.  Ball movement into our F50 is shambolic. And has been so forever. Why? Why is this coach still in a job?

We just don't have enough blokes that turn up to play each week,  let alone four quarters within a given game.  As epitomised by the likes of Cunningham.  I know it's unfair to single a bloke out, but he's picked yet again,  he runs around and shows flashes,  and is invisible for 98% of the game.   Enough.  

And senior players have to do their jobs and be reliable.   Plowman and captain chaos have played long enough to know that they are making too many dumb decisions too often,  and those errors cost goals. Wise up and do the basics or F off.

We have so many holes in our list I don't know where to start, but some blokes that can more the ball forwards from D50 reliably would be a great help. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on September 13, 2020, 09:43:11 pm
As well as addressing the usual issues - lack of ability, abysmal kicking skills, etc, surely we need to find out what is causing these dreadful first halves of football.

It's like watching somebody who has had a drug overdose being given an antidote injection and suddenly spring to their feet.

We can't go into 2021 season fearing a repeat of this season's many bad first half starts.  Is Teague responsible?  The coaching staff in general?  Do we need to employ sports psychologists?





To address your final question, we have one.....
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/587753/inside-the-mind-a-psychological-look-into-isolation
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: JonDorotich on September 13, 2020, 09:56:44 pm
Disappointing that we couldn't get a win against a very poor side and like so many others on this forum, I don't think the players care enough about the result.

Betts' time has come and I'd also be exiting Marc Murphy who has been a great servant, but is now too reactive, not able to tackle as he used to and is pushed off the ball far too easily. Simpson looks like he could go on or another year.

I'd also be exploring trades for two of Jones, Casboult & McGovern, who will all have some trade currency for those lacking genuine key position players. Jones and Casboult's best is very good but if we're honest they make far too many errors at critical times, whilst McGovern is skilled but just doesnt seems prepared to do the work required at AFL level.  SPS, Dow & Cunningham are in a similar boat, but I hold hope that they could yet emerge as consistent midfielders.

On the positive side, the form of Weitering and Walsh, the return from injury by Docherty and the emergence of TDK and Fisher in a new role have been highlights, whilst all of Williamson, Kennedy, Gibbons, Setterfield, Pittonet have improved and we know that we have some talent to come into the side through C Curnow, Kemp, Honey & Philp.

Could be another large turnover of our list to allow us to recruit a couple of seasoned mids & a fast defender or two.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: shawny on September 13, 2020, 10:17:10 pm
Today really typified us a club. Playing the bottom team with a win needed to keep our finals hopes alive.

Cripps is not beyond criticism to me. He has been severely underperforming who again had done SFA against a weak midfield. He finally gets a chance to make a difference and as usual sprays an easy set shot in front then takes it on and kicks a beautiful running goal. He then turns to crowd and gives a gesture with his arms out as if to suggest ‘how good am I’. He then jogs back to the centre with a cheeky grin on his face tapping teammates on his way thru. Now I’m not being critical for showing some inspiration but FMD he is our captain had done nothing to that point just missed an easy goal all while we are playing for a spot in the finals and we at that point we’re still 5 f***ing goals down with only 1 and 1/2 quarter remaining!! I remember thinking how does this look to the kids in the team. Do one cameo and then behave like I’m the man.

Then there was the farce after losing the game, wtf did we need to chair off Gibbs.  Hugging and laughing after the game was already too much but chair him off. Why? He is the enemy he is an ‘opponent’ yes an ‘opponent’ and we chair him off and then swap jumpers with him.

Didn’t he leave us after all and even recall comments he made bagging us when things were going better in his new home. And yet we are kicked out of the finals race against the bottom team and as his opposition we chair the bloke off. Disgusting.

We have no one with any real heart, any real desire to do everything and anything to succeed. We are a bunch of nice blokes and led by a coach with the same character. Us fans hurt more then the players and I tell ya what they are not getting my hard earned next year. They again got it this year but not a chance that’s happening again.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LordLucifer on September 13, 2020, 10:20:55 pm
We are a rabble who do not want to do the hard work & fight.

We also have a gaggle of players who can't kick, handball, mark or tackle.

We are a joke and an embarrassment !!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LordLucifer on September 13, 2020, 10:22:47 pm
Today really typified us a club. Playing the bottom team with a win needed to keep our finals hopes alive.

Cripps is not beyond criticism to me. He has been severely underperforming who again had done SFA against a weak midfield. He finally gets a chance to make a difference and as usual sprays an easy set shot in front then takes it on and kicks a beautiful running goal. He then turns to crowd and gives a gesture with his arms out as if to suggest ‘how good am I’. He then jogs back to the centre with a cheeky grin on his face tapping teammates on his way thru. Now I’m not being critical for showing some inspiration but FMD he is our captain had done nothing to that point just missed an easy goal all while we are playing for a spot in the finals and we at that point we’re still 5 f***ing goals down with only 1 and 1/2 quarter remaining!! I remember thinking how does this look to the kids in the team. Do one cameo and then behave like I’m the man.

Then there was the farce after losing the game, wtf did we need to chair off Gibbs.  Hugging and laughing after the game was already too much but chair him off. Why? He is the enemy he is an ‘opponent’ yes an ‘opponent’ and we chair him off and then swap jumpers with him.

Didn’t he leave us after all and even recall comments he made bagging us when things were going better in his new home. And yet we are kicked out of the finals race against the bottom team and as his opposition we chair the bloke off. Disgusting.

We have no one with any real heart, any real desire to do everything and anything to succeed. We are a bunch of nice blokes and led by a coach with the same character. Us fans hurt more then the players and I tell ya what they are not getting my hard earned next year. They again got it this year but not a chance that’s happening again.

Good onya Shawny, I thought it was just me that got the craps with Cripps showboating after that goal !!

I've had enough of the guy, I'm calling for him to be traded.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Baggers on September 13, 2020, 10:27:46 pm
We lacked that connect between mids and forward coaches, which Teague has lamented all year. It was the same when Teague was forward coach. Being able to train only with 8 at a times, and with a lot less sessions certainly hasn't helped. You don't even get the chance to try to practice connecting.

Other clubs, all other clubs have had the same handicap, so that excuse or justification doesn't wash.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses.

And to respond to another couple of your points, Tiggers came good because 1. Balme, 2. A creative 360 degree variant around heroes and Hardwick being removed from some areas and told to focus on coaching only. That session changed the culture, it was brilliant and the concept bound the blokes together in a short period of intense stuff and they've not looked back. Pussycats had a brutal 360 feedback course with Leading Teams and never looked back after that...

For us to toughen up there needs be a conscious exercise of strong confrontation / 360 feedback. Holy crap, we have a culture where players whine about a coach and get him the bullet - been doing it for years. Softness is ingrained, leave everything up to the superstars is ingrained. Relying on a 'tipping point' is living on 'someday isle.' We already have an ingrained tipping point... it come when opponents hit us with sustained pressure - we fold, we go to water, we crap ourselves.

We need to address these issues honestly and even brutally, that'll thin out a few non-hackers, and focus on deep cultural/psychological change. What do we stand for? What is our brand? How does the footy world see us? Chokers, that how we are viewed... big time chokers.

Holy mackerel did you see during the lockdown and no games the senior coach and one of the captains of the club spend a half hour on Zoom or Skype going through the playing list and taking the piss out of most players? I couldn't believe what I was watching.

Then, today (and there are plenty of other examples from the season) too many of our blokes are laughing and joking with opponents after an embarrassing loss. Seems the only people who hurt when we embarrass ourselves is the members and supporters. Too many players don't seem to give a crap... bar Walsh, do you see him after a loss - he hurts, hates losing, there are a few others but not enough. As I said, it is ingrained in our culture, losing... trying for a while... dropping our bundle when heat is applied... This will not change by expecting natural progression to take care of everything. It won't. Choking needs important and strong intervention.

There is nothing ruthless about our club. We're nice, we're talented, and we'll put up a fight... for a while, then... we'll choke.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on September 13, 2020, 10:39:15 pm
I think I predicted we finish 12th. From that perspective, my expectations were met.

What I found most disappointing and downright frustrating was the tease. The repeated performances showing we can match it with the best. This sells hope. Only to be followed by an abysmal performance, either within or between games. The inconsistencies are difficult to reconcile. That is until you look at the big picture.

I believe we're a better side than recent years. We have most of the players, although some are still developing. Some are developing aspects of their game to address weaknesses. Some simply aren't good enough.

We didn't have the home state advantage of several club's. Unfortunately Melbourne's CV status may have been an additional stressor for all VIC club's. Not excuses but real disproportionate factors likely to have an impact. I'm very pleased with the way our boys held up and hope Stocker returns in good health. This type of schedule certainly favors the seasoned sides.

I agree we should make a few list changes. I have no idea about the coaching staff though. Our injury list hasn't improved. MC have delivered head scratching selections. Our mindset seems to be a regular problem in terms of not showing up for 1 or 2 quarters.

Those are areas where attention is required IMO.  We certainly don't follow the 'you start the way you finish the last game'. On the contrary. I suspect mental toughness issues may be at play.

All is not lost, but we have a lot of work ahead of 2021.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: shawny on September 13, 2020, 10:48:14 pm
Good onya Shawny, I thought it was just me that got the craps with Cripps showboating after that goal !!

I've had enough of the guy, I'm calling for him to be traded.


Was very odd behaviour and one that tells you the mindset on the captain.
To do that when you 5 goals down really makes you wonder if he is the right man for the captaincy imo. Not just saying this off one game but reckon Weitering would be a good choice. Is a solid regular performer and a team first player.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: jeza on September 13, 2020, 11:11:59 pm
Setterfield has improved but is only a 15 pos per game midfielder.

Cripps has had a poor year.

Ed is limited.

Walsh would have to go close in the B&F (weiters?) but has been out on the wing.

Murphy is a bit past it.

Our mids aren't great. We have needed 2 more starting mids for the last 10 years. Can't understand why every other club can bring them in except us.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: bratblue on September 13, 2020, 11:18:16 pm
It   was very odd behaviour from Cripps but he's earned a repreive do to the fact he's carried the side for a while now or up until this year.  I can't understand how quickly some forget that and turn on him so easily. His mind cannot be completely focused with those issues with his partner. All he's done is shown that he's not superman but human.

I'll wait until next season before I even begin to judge him, he's earned it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Spanner on September 13, 2020, 11:54:44 pm
It  from was very odd behaviour from Cripps but he's earned a repreive do to the fact he's carried the side for a while now or up until this year.  I can't understand how quickly some forget that and turn on him so easily. His mind cannot be completely focused with those issues with his partner. All he's done is shown that he's not superman but human.

I'll wait until next season before I even begin to judge him, he's earned it.
This is precisely the problem with this club. We put players on a pedestal and they effectively can’t do no wrong.

Enough's enough! Cripps knows he’s regarded as the best player at the club and now is a shell of the player he once was because he knows he is above reproach. All he has to do is rock up and collect his pay cheque.

This has to stop. I’m all for lauding the players when they deserve it, but he and his mates don’t deserve any type of plaudits for their efforts this season. Praise when praise is due, not on past accomplishments.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on September 14, 2020, 07:53:06 am
Was very odd behaviour and one that tells you the mindset on the captain.
To do that when you 5 goals down really makes you wonder if he is the right man for the captaincy imo. Not just saying this off one game but reckon Weitering would be a good choice. Is a solid regular performer and a team first player.

Got caught following his man up the field for the entire first half which was why adelaide scored so easily.

It was a deliberate tactic to create separation leaving jones one out down back or a tandem with plowman and the opposition ruck who pushed forward hard knowing de koning didn't have the wheels to work up and down all game.

Weitering is better than that and the plan was to isolate the weak links.

It worked because we play see ball get ball too much.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LP on September 14, 2020, 08:02:16 am
I don't have a problem with Cripps celebrating a goal.

Firstly, they should celebrate goals as it builds confidence.

Secondly, it also breaks a stress cycle, not just for the goal-kicker but also for the team.

Finally, that highlight and a few more of them will force opposition clubs to treat Cripps differently. He'll become the master of his own destiny, that is exactly what we need, We do not need him being treated with disrespect and run-off freely, we need them crap scared to leave him unattended, and for him to have the confidence to kick those goals when or if they do leave him unattended!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 14, 2020, 10:06:09 am
Other clubs, all other clubs have had the same handicap, so that excuse or justification doesn't wash.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses.

And to respond to another couple of your points, Tiggers came good because 1. Balme, 2. A creative 360 degree variant around heroes and Hardwick being removed from some areas and told to focus on coaching only. That session changed the culture, it was brilliant and the concept bound the blokes together in a short period of intense stuff and they've not looked back. Pussycats had a brutal 360 feedback course with Leading Teams and never looked back after that...

For us to toughen up there needs be a conscious exercise of strong confrontation / 360 feedback. Holy crap, we have a culture where players whine about a coach and get him the bullet - been doing it for years. Softness is ingrained, leave everything up to the superstars is ingrained. Relying on a 'tipping point' is living on 'someday isle.' We already have an ingrained tipping point... it come when opponents hit us with sustained pressure - we fold, we go to water, we crap ourselves.

We need to address these issues honestly and even brutally, that'll thin out a few non-hackers, and focus on deep cultural/psychological change. What do we stand for? What is our brand? How does the footy world see us? Chokers, that how we are viewed... big time chokers.

Holy mackerel did you see during the lockdown and no games the senior coach and one of the captains of the club spend a half hour on Zoom or Skype going through the playing list and taking the piss out of most players? I couldn't believe what I was watching.

Then, today (and there are plenty of other examples from the season) too many of our blokes are laughing and joking with opponents after an embarrassing loss. Seems the only people who hurt when we embarrass ourselves is the members and supporters. Too many players don't seem to give a crap... bar Walsh, do you see him after a loss - he hurts, hates losing, there are a few others but not enough. As I said, it is ingrained in our culture, losing... trying for a while... dropping our bundle when heat is applied... This will not change by expecting natural progression to take care of everything. It won't. Choking needs important and strong intervention.

There is nothing ruthless about our club. We're nice, we're talented, and we'll put up a fight... for a while, then... we'll choke.

You trying to tell me Hardwick's success was Hardwick's. It's nice to have help but he has seen that club come from a total rabble for 35 years to a great club. There is no argument. Took 7 years to properly change that culture. Spin doesn't change that. And I can assure you the moment things changed for Geelong is when Chappy said enough is enough. They were 2-3 going not working like they should and that moment changed everything. It was leadership from within.

As for COVID it highly favored clubs with an ingrained, well entrenched game plan, where things were automatic. We started with issues with the connect between the mids and forwards, unlike many other sides. not to mention we had issues with allowing clubs to score easily. With 8 people only training at one time there was no chance to sort any of those issues. Sorry, that's a fact. Every clubs situation is different. Not an excuse though for those horrible, lackadaisical start. That's part is pathetic. No excuse for five 6 to 8 goal starts during the first half. If you're a paid player the least you can do is to turn up to play when the ball is bounced.

The issue we have is to change our losing culture, get that want to win from the first moment. Coach can do so much, and he has improved us quite alot, 13-14 from 4-39. Done a great job there, similar to Ratten's first year. We fight every game out to the end. We missed out on a finals chance with a couple of chokes but i'm prepared to wear that in the short term as part of development. A change being in finals contention up to the penultimate round rather than talking no.1 picks. Acceptable for not but not acceptable, if you know what I mean. as we pissed a gold-plated chance to play finals down the drain. What we need is a few players from within to say enough is enough.  One thing psychology teaches you, and spent years studying that as my undergrad degree and partial post grad while getting my Exercise Physiology Masters, and 35 years a coach, is unless motivation is intrinsic you never never get the best from yourself no matter the talent. Extrinsic motivation will only get you so far but if you don't want it badly enough it won't happen to full potential no matter how many coaches, psychologist push it. They can go along way to dragging it out but in the end has to come from within. Cats did that in 2007. it's why cultures take such a long time to change.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: IvanAwfulbigone on September 14, 2020, 11:06:19 am
Carlton, the club that keeps on giving ... to everyone except its supporters.

Want a fairytale end to your career?
Want to get your season back on track?
Unwanted by any other club but still need some pocket money?

Who ya’ gonna call?

Teague should make them watch the Cathy Freeman doco that aired last night.

Poor little flowers consistently wilt when a modicum of pressure is applied. Pressure? Pfft, they wouldn’t know what pressure is.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LordLucifer on September 14, 2020, 11:28:53 am
Carlton, the club that keeps on giving ... to everyone except its supporters.

Want a fairytale end to your career?
Want to get your season back on track?
Unwanted by any other club but still need some pocket money?

Who ya’ gonna call?

Teague should make them watch the Cathy Freeman doco that aired last night.

Poor little flowers consistently wilt when a modicum of pressure is applied. Pressure? Pfft, they wouldn’t know what pressure is.

Nailed it !!

Undoubtedly, that was the most embarrassing and insipid performance of the season. Playing the bottom team, we were expected to beat them, not go into the sheds at half-time 44-points down.

A goal-less opening quarter followed by just the one on the second, who the feck do we think we are ?? We didn't kick our second goal for the match until the 11-min mark of the third ............ what more does it take for the alarm bells to ring in the coaches box and amongst the senior players ?? 

I am absolutely pissed off with our "co-captains" too !!

Docherty has been 'average' at best this year and he was on track to register another sub-par game until he got injured. What totally blew my mind was his ambitious kick backwards over his head whilst standing on the boundary line. He seemed surprised that it went OOB, talk about a low percentage play and completely irresponsible behaviour. Can you imagine the roasting a newbie would have copped it he tried that shiit on ??

Cripps has been a non-event most of the season. His set-shot kicking for goal is appalling, and that is being polite. He missed a soda that we badly needed, in fact he missed it by a fair bit too. 

A little later, he bobbed up with some run, dash, baulks and the like and nailed a ripper goal.  Thing is, he burnt two team-mates in the process, thank feck he kicked accurately (maybe it was a fluke).

However, what galled me the most was his actions straight after kicking that goal. To put this into some perspective, he had done ziltch, nada, jacks!t up until that goal. He nails that one for his highlight reel and instead of running straight back to the centre for the next bounce and fire up his team-mates (like a good leader would do), he runs to towards the boundary line and does a "how good am I" pose for the sycophant adoring Carlton fans.

Sorry, that is not what I want to see from our captain, I'm sick to freakin' death of seeing Carlton players 'show-boating' after doing something good. We know it was good, we saw you do it, we don't need the theatrics and grandstanding.

We want to see the team win, not a handful of individual highlights. This typifies the mindset amongst the players, its all about them, not the team.  

Sadly, we are a long way from where we want to be because we are hedging our bets on a number of players who are VFL standard at best. Time to do some ruthless trades and bring in some mongrels and toe-cutters !!  
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LP on September 14, 2020, 11:34:48 am
Docherty has been 'average' at best this year and he was on track to register another sub-par game until he got injured. What totally blew my mind was his ambitious kick backwards over his head whilst standing on the boundary line. He seemed surprised that it went OOB, talk about a low percentage play and completely irresponsible behaviour. 
Sorry, but I think this misses the mark.

I think that comment is a confusion of what a player can do, what fans would like them to do like the old days and what they must do under the current rule implementation, it is a situation caused by poor AFL Management not the players.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: WASurfer on September 14, 2020, 12:00:25 pm
Been saying it on these forums for a couple of years.....until we draft/trade in players who can actually kick properly, we're destined for the lower regions of the ladder for a few more years. I doubt you'd find anyone you would say is "elite" with ball in hand on our list. That first 15 minutes yesterday was as bad as it's been....against the bottom side. When i saw that Walker and Talia were outs for them, I thought yep, this is one where we can actually dominate and win by a bit of a margin....maybe the players and coaches went into it with the same mindset?

Absolutely p#ss poor skills and footy smarts again. During the game a graphic was put up about consecutive goals conceded by us in each game this year and it made for scary reading...in fact it's been a blight on Teague's coaching tenure to date IMO.

Read this morning that Papley has committed to Sydney so maybe time to put a line through that one. If we can't trade in one or two very, very good midfielders with elite kicking skills, then we're up against it. Use our first round draft picks (this year and next if needed) and chase some Free Agents like Williams from GWS.

And don't get me started on McGovern....got a few late possessions but when the heat was on in that first quarter he was as he has been the last few weeks, a non-entity. If any club is stupid enough to be prepared to take him on, then we should do that deal.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on September 14, 2020, 12:42:14 pm
It's laj's fault. He started talking about 90 point margins to overtake Melbourne right before the game which got me thinking about it and I'm a massive jinx.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on September 14, 2020, 12:47:35 pm
However, what galled me the most was his actions straight after kicking that goal. To put this into some perspective, he had done ziltch, nada, jacks!t up until that goal. He nails that one for his highlight reel and instead of running straight back to the centre for the next bounce and fire up his team-mates (like a good leader would do), he runs to towards the boundary line and does a "how good am I" pose for the sycophant adoring Carlton fans.

Sorry, that is not what I want to see from our captain, I'm sick to freakin' death of seeing Carlton players 'show-boating' after doing something good. We know it was good, we saw you do it, we don't need the theatrics and grandstanding.

It was just weird. That's the sort of celebration you do when you seal the game not when you have been getting smashed and just missed a sitter from 30 metres out.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Blue Moon on September 14, 2020, 01:28:47 pm
Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. Carlton brought Barassi over to instill a winning culture into the Blues in the 1960's. This culture prevailed for three decades as Carlton became the League's power house. Elliot and his cronies destroyed the culture by instilling the belief that the only way you can win is by cheating. (Essendon followed that lead by instilling the belief that you can only win by being drug cheats.) We have addressed the cheating side of the cultural issues but we have yet to address the winning side of the is equation. We have got our administration right whereby we are financial viable and profitable even with a team producing crap results on field. We have built a squad that is young and talented with enormous potential, but we have yet to instill the desire to win. It is easy to have heroic defeats and the occasional come from behind incredible victories. It is hard to turn up week in week out and play to win. While it was great that Simpson and Murphy chaired off Gibbs at the end of the game, it would have better if they chaired him off after we had beaten Adelaide. I think Teague was a bit frustrated by this.
Back in the late 80's, a guy named Ian Herman kicked four goals in his first or second game for Carlton, he was dropped the following to allow a named player a game. We subsequently lost the next match. I always wondered about the message that was sent whereby it didn't matter how well you played, Carlton was always going to play the name players. That was the start of the drift in my book. It is the same with Cottrell. He takes the big mark, kicks the winning goal and doesn't play the next week. I understand he was probably starting to tire due to the work load, but what is the message we are sending to the playing group. Winning the game isn't important. Once again we played the name player, Docherty, with the dodgy leg who doesn't last out a quarter.
There is nothing wrong with our administration, there is nothing wrong with the playing list and there is nothing wrong with the coaching, what is wrong is whether the culture is focused on winning.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: pew2 on September 14, 2020, 03:05:06 pm
our game plan is F...k.n WRONG and the coaches have to take responsibility,we have lost games in the same manner for years.I would like to know how every week our opposition forward line has so much space and 1v1 contest ,room to lead into and now compare it to our forward line .
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Micky0 on September 14, 2020, 03:34:06 pm
You can’t knock Cripps for enjoying an amazing feat - he is the first that hits the deck and swears when we lose games. He does care. He is allowed to be happy and show that when he’s solely created something. He is not dumb, he would’ve been livid with himself about missing that set shot.  He is the least of our problems.

Agree re Cottrell. I would’ve much prefer him or give a youngster like Dow Honey whoever, another go, rather than that pisstaker McGovern. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: flyboy77 on September 14, 2020, 03:52:37 pm
our game plan is F...k.n WRONG and the coaches have to take responsibility,we have lost games in the same manner for years.I would like to know how every week our opposition forward line has so much space and 1v1 contest ,room to lead into and now compare it to our forward line .
yep.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: WASurfer on September 14, 2020, 03:57:34 pm
Agreed Micky0....that would've been pretty deflating for Cottrell to miss out on selection. He might not have dominated the game against Sydney but he's one bloke I'd back to be giving it 100% when he runs out on the ground....he's worked hard to get to where he is, unlike a few others....he's not gonna be taking it for granted.

Will be some interesting selection decisions this week for a dead rubber game against Brisbane. Maybe a swan song for Eddie and Simmo...
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on September 14, 2020, 04:03:17 pm
We seemed to have far too many players in loose ball situations or when the oppo had possession just standing around frozen and wondering what to do, leaving it to "others" to do something. Time and again players would zone off rather than attacking the ball or the opposition ball carrier only to see our defensive zone opened right up. Seems to be a LOT of confusion! By contrast, when one of our guys contested for the ball or picked it up he would be swarmed by the opposition -  a stark contrast.  Our "game plan" or "team orders" or whatever would seem to have some major holes and the individual players are unclear as to what they should do. This is of course complemented by the usual skill errors.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 14, 2020, 04:39:33 pm
Agreed Micky0....that would've been pretty deflating for Cottrell to miss out on selection. He might not have dominated the game against Sydney but he's one bloke I'd back to be giving it 100% when he runs out on the ground....he's worked hard to get to where he is, unlike a few others....he's not gonna be taking it for granted.

Will be some interesting selection decisions this week for a dead rubber game against Brisbane. Maybe a swan song for Eddie and Simmo...

Looks like a farewell for Simmo.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 14, 2020, 06:16:52 pm
Wish it was the real ladder.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ladder?year=2020&pt=PD&st=AQ&sb=p
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on September 15, 2020, 12:27:29 am
Wish it was the real ladder.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ladder?year=2020&pt=PD&st=AQ&sb=p

Does that mean we've won 36/64 quarters this year?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on September 15, 2020, 08:57:58 am
Wish it was the real ladder.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ladder?year=2020&pt=PD&st=AQ&sb=p

Our percentage is miles behind the other teams on the quarters won ladder.
We won 2 quarters on Sunday but the game was far from even.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 15, 2020, 11:35:55 am
I can't really understand why folks have issues with Cripps' goal and the aftermath. He was involved in several possessions, followed the ball from the wing to the F50 arc, weaved and swerved, turned Adelaide blokes inside out, and slotted it on the run. It was a super effort, his showboating lasted only a couple of seconds and was in my view, a fairly understated and mild example of that type of behavior. I have no issue with any of it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 15, 2020, 12:34:28 pm
Our percentage is miles behind the other teams on the quarters won ladder.
We won 2 quarters on Sunday but the game was far from even.
Yes, they $hit on us in the first half and we $hit on them in the 2nd half. They $hit on us more in that first half.

Still winning them. Winning as many as the gun sides or close to, meaning you're beating, matching good sides for much of the game. Also, when you're equal 4th on qtrs won but 12th on thee ladder it shows what bad qtrs/slow starts are doing to us as there should be a close relationship between the 2.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 15, 2020, 12:34:58 pm
Does that mean we've won 36/64 quarters this year?

Yes.

Individually. we were

9th 8-8 1st qtr 87%
10th 8-8 2nd qtr 87%
6th 9-6-1 3rd qtr 107%
3rd 11-5 last qtrs 104%

Greater 2nd half team, specially last qtrs, except when we choked.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: enz on September 15, 2020, 12:37:27 pm
I can't really understand why folks have issues with Cripps' goal and the aftermath. He was involved in several possessions, followed the ball from the wing to the F50 arc, weaved and swerved, turned Adelaide blokes inside out, and slotted it on the run. It was a super effort, his showboating lasted only a couple of seconds and was in my view, a fairly understated and mild example of that type of behavior. I have no issue with any of it.

And got the next centre clearance.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 15, 2020, 12:46:51 pm
And got the next centre clearance.

I wasn't aware of that. Good to know. Thanks.

Enzo, you've been very quiet lately. Tutto bene ?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Lods on September 15, 2020, 05:16:00 pm
I'm sure I'll get over it in a day or two but the disappointment from Sunday's result is hanging on a bit more than a loss normally does for me.

There's probably a few contributing reasons for that....

End of the season coming up.
The retirement of Kreuzer and now Simpson
The poor start in our last two games
What appeared to be a lack of disappointment amongst the players after the game.
The end of any finals chances (although they were a longshot anyway)

It probably just needs a good performance on the weekend to ease the 'unease'.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Micky0 on September 15, 2020, 09:16:01 pm
I'm sure I'll get over it in a day or two but the disappointment from Sunday's result is hanging on a bit more than a loss normally does for me.

There's probably a few contributing reasons for that....

End of the season coming up.
The retirement of Kreuzer and now Simpson
The poor start in our last two games
What appeared to be a lack of disappointment amongst the players after the game.
The end of any finals chances (although they were a longshot anyway)

It probably just needs a good performance on the weekend to ease the 'unease'.


I feel the same. Felt like we were stepping up this season but that game was putrid and shook all the good memories of a strange season, right out of me.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 15, 2020, 09:27:27 pm
I'm sure I'll get over it in a day or two but the disappointment from Sunday's result is hanging on a bit more than a loss normally does for me.

There's probably a few contributing reasons for that....

End of the season coming up.
The retirement of Kreuzer and now Simpson
The poor start in our last two games
What appeared to be a lack of disappointment amongst the players after the game.
The end of any finals chances (although they were a longshot anyway)

It probably just needs a good performance on the weekend to ease the 'unease'.



The poor start is something we've had numerous times throughout the year. In every instance, we've managed to fight back at the end.
IMO the worst games are where we start well, lead and give up in the 2nd half. Ala Pies and GWS' 'must win games'.

With it all on the line, with the upper hand, we gave it away with barely a whimper. That was demoralising.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on September 16, 2020, 08:01:46 am
This game is in danger of defining our season psychologically. We just have to put in a good one this week.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: enz on September 16, 2020, 08:58:06 am
I wasn't aware of that. Good to know. Thanks.

Enzo, you've been very quiet lately. Tutto bene ?

All good Paolo, come on & read a bit, most of the time my thoughts are already said and usual bias and infighting still occurring.

I hope your well & these challenging times are past us sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 16, 2020, 10:25:31 am
All good Paolo, come on & read a bit, most of the time my thoughts are already said and usual bias and infighting still occurring.

I hope your well & these challenging times are past us sooner rather than later.

Thanks matey. All ok here for now. 👍
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 18, 2020, 01:42:54 pm
https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-showed-lack-of-killer-instinct-chairing-off-bryce-gibbs/news-story/bc32e347f157ee4bd11e6f7b4190aa8d
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: capcom on September 18, 2020, 02:10:56 pm
 Less than :o
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 18, 2020, 03:41:21 pm
I like my footy hard and uncompromising but the game was over and so was the season in reality so it wasnt a big deal IMO.
Interesting to hear Kade Simpson say he didnt really have any friends from his younger years at school etc and all his mates were
at the club and forged from footy so I can understand Gibbs being important to him as a friend and wanting to see him off in a friendly way.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: bratblue on September 18, 2020, 05:49:58 pm
As David Parkin explained to me, the players from all clubs are a family. Its the supporters who are tribal and expect tribalism from the players.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: laj on September 18, 2020, 05:54:31 pm
https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-showed-lack-of-killer-instinct-chairing-off-bryce-gibbs/news-story/bc32e347f157ee4bd11e6f7b4190aa8d

Saw who said it in the first paragraph and didn't continue reading.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 18, 2020, 07:03:28 pm
I like my footy hard and uncompromising but the game was over and so was the season in reality so it wasnt a big deal IMO.
Interesting to hear Kade Simpson say he didnt really have any friends from his younger years at school etc and all his mates were
at the club and forged from footy so I can understand Gibbs being important to him as a friend and wanting to see him off in a friendly way.
Club has a 20min video of 3 people paying homage to Simmo. Murph, Juddy and Gibbsy, no surprises there.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on September 18, 2020, 09:23:21 pm
Saw who said it in the first paragraph and didn't continue reading.

I think for once he's vocalised what we were all thinking.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on September 18, 2020, 09:56:43 pm
Club has a 20min video of 3 people paying homage to Simmo. Murph, Juddy and Gibbsy, no surprises there.

Also a couple of minutes about Kreuzer near the end. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on September 19, 2020, 08:01:23 am
I think for once he's vocalised what we were all thinking.



Could you imagine Collingwood chairing off Heath Shaw if the GWS ended their finals hopes?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2020, 08:04:18 am
Could you imagine Collingwood chairing off Heath Shaw if the GWS ended their finals hopes?
Different circumstances but I could.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on September 19, 2020, 08:07:46 am
Could you imagine Collingwood chairing off Heath Shaw if the GWS ended their finals hopes?
Lets not get too carried away, our finals hopes were mathematical only.

We lost them in the previous 2 weeks worth of 'must win' games.