Carlton Supporters Club

A rule of thumb in this debate is that a parent who does not smack their child decries those that do, they are quick to point out the proper (in their thoughts) parenting skills and those who use other methods are wrong.  The truth is that both can be right.  The real problem is that there are a large number of parents who have absolutely no idea of  parenting and that's where both sides find their ammunition.
I know of parents who have used a smack and their children are exemplary.  I have also known parents who follow the no hitting rule whose children have become monsters, both as children and as adults.
I believe that the trick of the game is a balanced approach.  As on old teacher who used the strap, I used to first give a warning, followed by a brief glimpse of the leather instrument.  If the matter recurred the student was asked to hold the instrument, to get the feel of what it may be like to receive it forcefully.  The third time they found out the advantage of behaving better.  I taught for 8 years in Broadmeadows (Broady East and Upfield) and never got to use the strap more than a couple times a year.
Today the kids have been given the idea that a teacher hitting them would be abominable but the same kids have no worries about hitting others.  I often liken kids to cattle.  When in a paddock they see outside the fence and are prepared to push against a fence to get to the other side.  If the fence is strong they accept that and leave the fence alone.  Kids are similar.  They will test and push the boundaries.  If the boundaries are strong the kids will remain within the acceptable area.  Strength of boundaries are set by the parents.  Sometimes a harsh word, sometimes a careful explanation of possible consequences will do the trick.  But sometimes the strength begins to wilt under pressure and a smack will quickly bring reality back in.  Note that I said a smack -NOT A BEATING.  there is a vast difference.  Don't blame a parent or decry for smacking their child.  They may have already implemented several other approaches first before resorting to their ultimate defence.
Those parent who beat their children and/or don't try other methods first should be assisted not derided.
A good friend of mine at the time came to visit me in my new house.  Their three year old when offered a soft drink and biscuits, broke the biscuits on the new carpet, poured the drink over that and proceeded to make 'biscuit pies'.  Both parents laughed at their child's antics.  When they didn't respond I picked up the child sat him on my knee and wouldn't let him off.  They never visited again, much to my delight.  The same child six years later was pushing my 5 year old daughter under the water in a mutual friend's backyard pool.  He refused to stop when asked.  So I went around and held him by the hair and pushed him under the water.  When I finally let him up spluttering for air, I explained that if he continued with his behaviour I would also continue with mine.  The rest of the afternoon went entirely without further incident.

I always only 'heard rumours' of teachers excessively using the strap.  On a few occasions I was able to ascertain that particular stories were wild exaggerations made by those who wished to amplify their courage, hardness, ... whatever.  So perhaps a number of these stories, but probably not all are not quite true.
One point that I must make is that since corporal punishment was banned in schools general behaviour has progressively worsened.  There may very well be other inputs to this but I believe that it has had some effect at least.
I have always questioned fully before handing out any punishment and I have found that kids do not necessarily lie, they just avoid or leave very pertinent information out of the conversation.  It is generally very easy to discover this by asking the same thing in a different way, but kids still try it until they eventually realise that you are able to get to the truth eventually and they then own up fairly quickly should they come under investigation again.
I have a very good relationship with many of my former pupils, dating back to the early seventies.  At school reunions those who I had been firm with were just as keen to talk with me as those who were goodie-two-shoes.  One former pupil who I had a major run-in with at Broady East many years later left his mates to come across the road to talk to me about old times.  (I had been sh1t scared as they were a real tough looking mob and I desperately wanted to avoid them and had crossed the road)
The one bit advice that I have always given new teachers - remember the four F's - Fair, Firm and Friendly and Fun.  Mix these things up in the right amount to suit the situation and you will find kids respond.  The big F is FAIR.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/11/08/07/44/father-deemed-unfit-for-denying-mcdonald-s

 

The world has truly gone mad.

No doubt there is more to this story than meets the eye, but this sets an absolutely terrible precedent in the court room for people facing these sorts of problems.

Not wanting to reward his son's bad behaviour, Mr Schorr gave the boy an ultimatum: dinner anywhere other than McDonald's or no dinner.

Quote from: chalkybill on November 08, 2013, 10:01:27 am

I always only 'heard rumours' of teachers excessively using the strap.  On a few occasions I was able to ascertain that particular stories were wild exaggerations made by those who wished to amplify their courage, hardness, ... whatever.  So perhaps a number of these stories, but probably not all are not quite true.
One point that I must make is that since corporal punishment was banned in schools general behaviour has progressively worsened.  There may very well be other inputs to this but I believe that it has had some effect at least.
I have always questioned fully before handing out any punishment and I have found that kids do not necessarily lie, they just avoid or leave very pertinent information out of the conversation.  It is generally very easy to discover this by asking the same thing in a different way, but kids still try it until they eventually realise that you are able to get to the truth eventually and they then own up fairly quickly should they come under investigation again.
I have a very good relationship with many of my former pupils, dating back to the early seventies.  At school reunions those who I had been firm with were just as keen to talk with me as those who were goodie-two-shoes.  One former pupil who I had a major run-in with at Broady East many years later left his mates to come across the road to talk to me about old times.  (I had been sh1t scared as they were a real tough looking mob and I desperately wanted to avoid them and had crossed the road)
The one bit advice that I have always given new teachers - remember the four F's - Fair, Firm and Friendly and Fun.  Mix these things up in the right amount to suit the situation and you will find kids respond.  The big F is FAIR.

No wild exaggerations at my school...the strap was used on a regular basis and I can still feel the sting on my hands as I put them under my desk on the cool metal frame to dull the pain.
It was an all boys Technical School and the teachers didnt take prisoners...some of them enjoyed beating up on the students in a sadistic manner especially the vice principal who had a very large and heavy strap which he liked to use with a large flourish.
You left out the other "F"....favourites....what always annoyed me was the different rules for different students....

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on November 08, 2013, 11:51:48 am

Quote from: chalkybill on November 08, 2013, 10:01:27 am

I always only 'heard rumours' of teachers excessively using the strap.  On a few occasions I was able to ascertain that particular stories were wild exaggerations made by those who wished to amplify their courage, hardness, ... whatever.  So perhaps a number of these stories, but probably not all are not quite true.
One point that I must make is that since corporal punishment was banned in schools general behaviour has progressively worsened.  There may very well be other inputs to this but I believe that it has had some effect at least.
I have always questioned fully before handing out any punishment and I have found that kids do not necessarily lie, they just avoid or leave very pertinent information out of the conversation.  It is generally very easy to discover this by asking the same thing in a different way, but kids still try it until they eventually realise that you are able to get to the truth eventually and they then own up fairly quickly should they come under investigation again.
I have a very good relationship with many of my former pupils, dating back to the early seventies.  At school reunions those who I had been firm with were just as keen to talk with me as those who were goodie-two-shoes.  One former pupil who I had a major run-in with at Broady East many years later left his mates to come across the road to talk to me about old times.  (I had been sh1t scared as they were a real tough looking mob and I desperately wanted to avoid them and had crossed the road)
The one bit advice that I have always given new teachers - remember the four F's - Fair, Firm and Friendly and Fun.  Mix these things up in the right amount to suit the situation and you will find kids respond.  The big F is FAIR.

No wild exaggerations at my school...the strap was used on a regular basis and I can still feel the sting on my hands as I put them under my desk on the cool metal frame to dull the pain.
It was an all boys Technical School and the teachers didnt take prisoners...some of them enjoyed beating up on the students in a sadistic manner especially the vice principal who had a very large and heavy strap which he liked to use with a large flourish.
You left out the other "F"....favourites....what always annoyed me was the different rules for different students....

I deliberately didn't include that word 'favourites' because I was giving advice to junior teachers and I would NEVER suggest that they create favourites.  The creation of favourites immediately detracts from the greatest 'F' word FAIR.  Kids have a great awareness of what is fair and what is not, although at times they need to be shown of how the fairness occurs before they make up their minds.

Quote from: chalkybill on November 08, 2013, 05:02:15 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on November 08, 2013, 11:51:48 am

Quote from: chalkybill on November 08, 2013, 10:01:27 am

I always only 'heard rumours' of teachers excessively using the strap.  On a few occasions I was able to ascertain that particular stories were wild exaggerations made by those who wished to amplify their courage, hardness, ... whatever.  So perhaps a number of these stories, but probably not all are not quite true.
One point that I must make is that since corporal punishment was banned in schools general behaviour has progressively worsened.  There may very well be other inputs to this but I believe that it has had some effect at least.
I have always questioned fully before handing out any punishment and I have found that kids do not necessarily lie, they just avoid or leave very pertinent information out of the conversation.  It is generally very easy to discover this by asking the same thing in a different way, but kids still try it until they eventually realise that you are able to get to the truth eventually and they then own up fairly quickly should they come under investigation again.
I have a very good relationship with many of my former pupils, dating back to the early seventies.  At school reunions those who I had been firm with were just as keen to talk with me as those who were goodie-two-shoes.  One former pupil who I had a major run-in with at Broady East many years later left his mates to come across the road to talk to me about old times.  (I had been sh1t scared as they were a real tough looking mob and I desperately wanted to avoid them and had crossed the road)
The one bit advice that I have always given new teachers - remember the four F's - Fair, Firm and Friendly and Fun.  Mix these things up in the right amount to suit the situation and you will find kids respond.  The big F is FAIR.

No wild exaggerations at my school...the strap was used on a regular basis and I can still feel the sting on my hands as I put them under my desk on the cool metal frame to dull the pain.
It was an all boys Technical School and the teachers didnt take prisoners...some of them enjoyed beating up on the students in a sadistic manner especially the vice principal who had a very large and heavy strap which he liked to use with a large flourish.
You left out the other "F"....favourites....what always annoyed me was the different rules for different students....

I deliberately didn't include that word 'favourites' because I was giving advice to junior teachers and I would NEVER suggest that they create favourites.  The creation of favourites immediately detracts from the greatest 'F' word FAIR.  Kids have a great awareness of what is fair and what is not, although at times they need to be shown of how the fairness occurs before they make up their minds.

You sound like a terrific teacher, CHALKY Old Son. I recall having some beauts at high school. Seemed the older you got the more teachers would allow an (appropriate) friendship to develop.

But the first 8 years of my schooling was a little like EB1s... first was the convent. I didn't experience any priests doing the wrong thing, just nuns beating the crap out of us on a pretty regular basis. And nothing was out of bounds. A whipping with a can across the back of the legs was standard... and bleeding was not uncommon. Also being belted with books across the face/head if you did the wrong thing was not uncommon. There was some mean bitches there. I ran away on a regular basis (yes, 5 year old boy roaming the streets of Moonee Ponds) but fortunately, after 2 years at the convent, we moved down the Peninsula and off to a state school... no more nuns, yah! No canes at the state school... just leather or vinyl straps. And man they stung. Especially if you got '6 of the best'.

Gotta say that I have incredible respect for teachers... don't know how they do it. I couldn't.

Saw a bawling kid cop a slap off his mother down at Clark Rubber today. Made me think of this....is it appropriate for parents to dish out discipline in a public place for everybody to see, or should it always be a 'home' thing?

Saw a bawling kid cop a slap off his mother down at Clark Rubber today. Made me think of this....is it appropriate for parents to dish out discipline in a public place for everybody to see, or should it always be a 'home' thing?