Carlton Supporters Club

I haven't associated you with Pete Evans, I just made a general comment about people like Evans, you decided I was implying it was about you, why are you paranoid?

I did asked you a simple question, not related to your decision about getting or refusing a vaccine. I asked what evidence could I provide that would convince you a vaccine was safe, and in effect you replied there is no evidence I could provide that would make you think a vaccine is safe. Not by saying that directly, but it doesn't change the meaning of your response, it's not an area you can work around and not related to or painting you as a Pete Evans. type, it's a simple question. You should even ask it of yourself!

I do not know what you are looking for, so it's a simple question from my perspective as well.
That is interesting terminology, a vaccine guinea pig, when you allow an infection isn't that an infection guinea pig?

Restriction is a romantic notion, we can't even keep the dissenters at bay for a few weeks and you want them constrained for 2 years, is that realistic or are you just taking the piss? The first-hand experiences in a town with a few thousand cases is a not indicative. Are those circus tents turn into massive morgues in the USA and UK fake news, just a conspiracy?

Are the numbers less accurate where there are more cases to study, or is your personal perspective a position of privilege? Why is it so important, how do you convince me you are right and "all the rest" are wrong?
That story is as bad as those who choose to associate MMR with Down Syndrome, and a journalistic disgrace.

When you are vaccinating millions, there would be even more people that have died in the COVID vaccine waiting room, probably even more that died in a car accident on the way to the clinic, just the thought of the vaccine killed them it seems!
I would of thought risk is very relevant, doing nothing can hold as much risk as doing the wrong thing, as Trump demonstrated, what are they up to now in deaths?

If you can, ask your epidemiologist friend about human immune system accelerated viral mutation in the context of herd immunity and non-vaccination. I'd love to read a response.

Yeah nah, I've stated my point.  Its backed up by quite a few others.  Feel free to come to my work and have my vaccine for me.  They won't know its not me with the mask on and my id with no photo.

I fell your uncomfortable answering the question about what might be an acceptable level of evidence.

It's a question designed by Sir Karl Popper to make an debate opponent ponder their own position, especially when an opponent argues they have a position based on evidence without providing evidence. Obviously, when offering a position based on evidence there must be some way to list it, and if evidence sways an opinion there must be some threshold at which further evidence changes that opinion.

Stating more evidence is not evidence at all!

I don't require the answer, it isn't needed, the question is designed to leave you and other observers of the debate pondering what might be viable evidence.

PS; I do not think the poor journalism reporting coincident deaths with vaccinations is backed up by anyone with credibility, as it's an absurdity as I demonstrated in my answer.

Agree.

I am pro-vaccine. My wife works for CSL and somewhat indirectly helps vaccines get made.

BUT.....there is just something about this whole thing that feels like it could come back to bite us.

Everything has been rushed through. They are still working out what Covid is doing long term and they have no idea what the vaccine will do in similar.

Never get the 'new model' as soon as its out. Let people find the bugs in it and get the v2.0 which will be better off.

Not really, but choose to believe what makes you feel better.  This post sums up my position farely well and its an opinion shared by many who are in the direct firing line for early uptake:

The advantage we have of maintaining our covid status quo for a period of time that should start seeing any real adverse results is very logical, and absolutely the path we SHOULD be taking as a nation for our own nations safety.

Instead, you are advocating a rushed vaccine to get us open quicker for the benefit of the exact people you lambast for being skeptical about lockdowns (i.e. big businesses).

Once again, look at the bigger picture, its not about a virus anymore nor is it about personal safety.  Else we would see this debate playing out much more publicly and not in the halls of parliament house between the likes of Craig Kelly and co.

The highlighted term is your problem, I'm asking you about what type of evidence you accept, and you deliver an opinion supported by another opinion.

It's not that hard to understand the difference.
You keep talking about advantages of your opinion without listing the risks, it's not balanced.
You can't conduct this argument with gross generalisations, entities like Murdoch Media or the GOP are not the NIH, CDC, NHS, etc., etc..
I think you confuse the social media opinion and news media opinion with science and research, the bulk of the studies reporting the numbers are not conducted by the companies making the vaccines and certainly not conducted by the political parties. There is not a single scientific report that suggest the vaccine is dangerous, and millions and millions of people have been inoculated already, yet that doesn't seem to be enough evidence, and the long terms effects of COVID potentially being avoided by that inoculation isn't evidence either.

Then what is the evidence you need Thry, it's a simple question?

What you have written suggests you have created a relationship that doesn't really exist, both in analysis of the commentary and subjectively in reading of this debate.

Evidence gazumps opinion, opinions like those offered by Murdoch, GOP, Kelly, Evans, and that horrendously appalling Portugeuse COVID vaccine death correlation quoted in an earlier response.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

The end.

LP give it a rest, you are welcome to your opinion, dont attack mine asserting a position of dominance.  its bullcrap.

Im the complete opposite EB, I have every faith in the vaccine and whilst rushed, its a different rushed. The collaboration and sharing of info around the globe by the best scientists on the planet has been like never before. I am told the the number of people used for clinical trials is many times more than the number for normal clinical trials and much more data has been available. Each to their own though, I would happily have the vaccine.

But each to their own as you say and I understand why people are keen to get vaccinated...

Yes it's a freedom of choice.

Vaccination isn't about "me"...

(I have to laugh at conspiracies re the science of vaccines... especially when the conspiracy theorist is grossly overweight or puffing on a cigarette or alcohol lover... etc.)

Just a question:

My understanding is that one of the vaccines reduces the symptoms/effects in the person who has received it, but doesn't reduce the transmission towards other people.

Is this correct?  If so, how is it a panacea - it would require the masses to be vaccinated for it to have a lasting effect of reducing the virus? Is this how all vaccines work? If not, please pretend I didn't ask the question!

I have only had the flu shot a couple of times - I've never had the flu.  Partly my constitution, partly luck, partly others having had it?

I'm not sure where I sit on this one - certainly believe in vaccines (polio, measles etc seem to have done pretty well!), certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I trust reputable science, but I don't have the same sense of conviction about this.

I'll give up smoking tomorrow, I can't give up now it goes down so well after a few tubes, and I'm off to buy a tattslotto ticket and that tatts agent is the local tobacconist, .................. but there is no way in hell I'm getting a jab the odds of getting a badun is too great!

But I'm not gunna wear a seat belt, ................ Pfffffffff ........... seat belts are deaths traps! Do you know how many people die in car accidents wearing seats belts, way more than people who die in car accidents without seat belts on!

I'm not getting that COVID jab, .............. but can you book me in for some botox and a breast implant, I wanna be a Double D with a flawless deadpan smile!

FFS "Do not get the COVID jab", what do you think of my new tan, pale people shouldn't use solariums, the risk is too great they don't have my Mediterranean skin!

My new tattoos are saving me heaps of money that I would have previously spent on sunscreen, does the solarium fade tattoos? FFS, do no get the COVID jab, Jenny's friend Shelly works in the office at AstraZeneca's local warehouse, she got the jab and fainted right there on the spot, we haven't seen her for weeks, it's potentially deadly! I hope she's alright we are supposed to be getting liposuction together next month for a transfer of some butt fat to our lips!

  I feel I've seen all this before somewhere! 

I see it a little differently, Oh Spotted One. For me it's about You & Me... Us, Community, Team... when I get the Covid jab I'm doing it for Us.