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Topic: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday (Read 73769 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #285 –
I thought the Plow was moving very well last night too...

I understand the guy was a really good mover as a kid but has appeared hampered in recent seasons.

Doc aside, gotta love the core of Plow, Marchy, Weiters and Jones - the equal of any in the league and with so much upside!

Mullett - meh - will have to prove himself in the 2s.

Lamb too found the ball a lot but seemed to be dishing off a pass before he'd taken possession himself!

With only 22 allowed in the regular season (why don't they allow a bigger bench), hard to see either of these two getting a regular gig.

Lamb isn't going to play ahead of Murphy, Wright, Pickett, Garlett, Fisher, SoJ or (even say) O'Brien.

Mullet is clearly behind Byrne, Willo and O'Shea for that matter.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #286 –
Looked like Marchbank might be the one who we look to have in the Docherty role... might be worth a look in your SuperCoach team.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #287 –
Quote from: PaulP on
When I saw Weeters in 2016, I thought he will become the best player on our list - better than Cripps, better than anyone. He made everything look effortless, almost easy. When I saw him in 2017, I could hardly believe it was the same player.

And yet statistically he was barely different from 2016 to 2017.

He's a tall, and like any other tall he'll take a good 3 or 4 years to find his feet.

Which by the way highlights how good Cripps is as a midfielder, he seems to have sidestepped the 6'5" type development curve.
The Force Awakens!

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #288 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Yes, no doubt there's a healthy dose of presumptuousness and speculation on my part, which is one reason out of many why this forum exists, and for which I make no apologies. Whilst it's true that I can't prove anything, it's also true that no one can prove the opposite.

But the onus is on you Paul as you are accusing the club of risking him being further injured and it was dumb of them to play him.
That would be like saying "Fred stole something" and then asking Fred to prove he didn't steal it, rather than having to prove he did.

I agree the forums are here for as wild as speculation as people want, but also for others to question if there is any real basis for that speculation.
So not having a go at you, just disagreeing with your assumption, which in this instance appears to be

Weiters was injured, he had a poor season, so the club managed him badly.
My assertion is that I don't see anything with the way the club manages it's players to suggest it would in fact risk Weiters unnecessarily.

Oh I don't think you are negative about Weitering at all. As you can probably tell neither am I. I just am pretty well behind the way the club is managing things (finally, after years and years of crap) and hence my response to speculation we are mismanaging players.

Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #289 –
Quote from: LP on
And yet statistically he was barely different from 2016 to 2017.

In a post I done a couple of months ago and based purely on last seasons form I had him only slight below Marchank and Plowman for the season and I had him ahead of all the other Under 21 players except Curnow and Marchbank. I rated him a 69 on the season with Plowman a 72 and Marchbank a 73.

For a 2nd year player, his season was still good and still better than a lot of our other players, including 3 of the Rising Star nominees (imo)
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #290 –
Quote from: mateinone on
But the onus is on you Paul as you are accusing the club of risking him being further injured and it was dumb of them to play him.
That would be like saying "Fred stole something" and then asking Fred to prove he didn't steal it, rather than having to prove he did.

I agree the forums are here for as wild as speculation as people want, but also for others to question if there is any real basis for that speculation.
So not having a go at you, just disagreeing with your assumption, which in this instance appears to be

Weiters was injured, he had a poor season, so the club managed him badly.
My assertion is that I don't see anything with the way the club manages it's players to suggest it would in fact risk Weiters unnecessarily.

Oh I don't think you are negative about Weitering at all. As you can probably tell neither am I. I just am pretty well behind the way the club is managing things (finally, after years and years of crap) and hence my response to speculation we are mismanaging players.

It's been discussed on here many times over the years (speculated, if you will) that our club has a dubious history of injury management - speculation around Kreuzer in his early years etc. In recent times, Jarrad Waite has intimated that the guys at North are better and he's been able to play more games than he would have at Carlton. If our club has been dysfunctional across many departments, it's not unreasonable to speculate that the way they deal with injuries may also be less than ideal.


Quote from: LP on
And yet statistically he was barely different from 2016 to 2017.

He's a tall, and like any other tall he'll take a good 3 or 4 years to find his feet.

Which by the way highlights how good Cripps is as a midfielder, he seems to have sidestepped the 6'5" type development curve.


Stats can be problematic sometimes - we all know examples of players with 40 possies whose influence on the game is minimal. My eyes might deceive me, but I know what I see. Go back and look at the in game threads from last season. Lots of speculation around Weets.

I know he'll take a few years to sort himself out. I just don't want to see him derailed.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #291 –
Quote from: Bear on
Looked like Marchbank might be the one who we look to have in the Docherty role... might be worth a look in your SuperCoach team.
To me Byrne looks more Docherty-like, especially the run and carry.  He can end up with 3 or 4 possessions in every passage of play.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #292 –
Just for the hell of it, I took a break and flicked the radio dial to SEN and was very lucky to hear Ragsy Goold call in to give his tuppence worth. He was quite optimistic, especially praising SOS for his strategic recruiting. He mentioned that it appeared the 'virus' of past years (pretty sure it was an Elliot reference), had gone and that perhaps the highly ethical attitude of Serg has been passed onto SOS and that the club will ultimately benefit from that... good on you, Ragsy.

His only comment of concern was that, in relation to the how well we set up quick attacking thrusts from defense (last night), that Weitering might slow that process. Interesting. Thoughts?
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #293 –
re: Lamb.....reckon the coach might like him because he applies a bit of defensive pressure which some of the others dont. He may not be as flashy but I think
he will get games ahead of more flashy players who dont do the harder stuff as well.

re: Mullet looked like he did at North, good skills but lightweight and not physical enough in close...still think he will get opportunities due to his ability to play on smaller players

re: Byrne...good run and carry but defensive wise looks shaky when running back near goal...

 

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #294 –
Quote from: PaulP on
It's been discussed on here many times over the years (speculated, if you will) that our club has a dubious history of injury management - speculation around Kreuzer in his early years etc. In recent times, Jarrad Waite has intimated that the guys at North are better and he's been able to play more games than he would have at Carlton. If our club has been dysfunctional across many departments, it's not unreasonable to speculate that the way they deal with injuries may also be less than ideal.

It is reasonable to speculate all you like, but not reasonable to expect that there is anything at all in it.
Jarrad Waite left the club when the club was quite different to what it is now and even then, he is hardly going to come out and say North has worse at injury management is he? That is a line that has been repeated by players going to new clubs over the years. I think Josh Kennedy said the same thing at Sydney.

Waite of course has only played 50% of games the last 2 seasons as well.

But saying that because a club was bad x number of years ago so it is fair to say they are probably bad now is baseless. As an ridiculous extreme example isn't that like saying x % of Germans were seriously NAZI supporters during the early 30s and 40s so therefore it is reasonable that a lot are still now. I mean Kreuzer in his early years  ;D ;D ;D You have to be kidding if you are using that as an indicator

The only real indication of how the club manages injuries is looking at the players and I don't see players constantly breaking down with Soft tissue injuries or chronic injuries that are not repairing.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #295 –
Quote from: mateinone on
It is reasonable to speculate all you like, but not reasonable to expect that there is anything at all in it.
Jarrad Waite left the club when the club was quite different to what it is now and even then, he is hardly going to come out and say North has worse at injury management is he? That is a line that has been repeated by players going to new clubs over the years. I think Josh Kennedy said the same thing at Sydney.

Waite of course has only played 50% of games the last 2 seasons as well.

But saying that because a club was bad x number of years ago so it is fair to say they are probably bad now is baseless. As an ridiculous extreme example isn't that like saying x % of Germans were seriously NAZI supporters during the early 30s and 40s so therefore it is reasonable that a lot are still now. I mean Kreuzer in his early years  ;D ;D ;D You have to be kidding if you are using that as an indicator

The only real indication of how the club manages injuries is looking at the players and I don't see players constantly breaking down with Soft tissue injuries or chronic injuries that are not repairing.

Waite didn't have to say anything at all. And Kreuzer is still a current player - if the theory about dubious injury management is true, it's quite conceivable that such poor injury management may manifest itself at a later date, under a new regime. I don't believe such things are as far fetched as you make them out to be.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #296 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Waite didn't have to say anything at all. And Kreuzer is still a current player - if the theory about dubious injury management is true, it's quite conceivable that such poor injury management may manifest itself at a later date, under a new regime. I don't believe such things are as far fetched as you make them out to be.

Yet you have no basis at all for them Paul? Is it safe to assume the bombers have not learned from the Peptide fiasco?
What part of our injuries over the last few years gives any indication of mismanagement?
You talk about Weitering, but he was right to go preseason, so he wasn't hampered by playing and why would it be a natural assumption he was 'risked'?

Kreuzer has been at the club 10 years that is a lifetime in football and even then you get an odd player who breaks down, especially taller heavier players.
But even if I said.. okay you have a basis to suggest that Kreuzer wasn't managed well from an injury stand point and the proof is the time he was out with recurring injuries. Why is it likely to be the same now?
We have had numerous staff changes across all positions since those days and the club right now seems to be particularly trying to act is a most systematic approach.
I still personally believe you can be as entitled to an opinion as you like, but that there is absolutely nothing solid to base it on.

It is like saying, our recruiting is crap. Well it was for a long time, but with different recruiters in and more advanced techniques for analyzing players, why is what we done even 4 years ago relevant?
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #297 –
The 1% stat should be renamed a "Jones" :D

Continuing on from his efforts in this area last season he had 14 last night...next best from either side was 5.

He started really well but also made a few errors that led to goals.
A few "heart in the mouth" moments while he's still learning the craft no doubt...but you absolutely cannot fault his commitment.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #298 –
Yey we won
L

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #299 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-thought-it-was-a-joke-chris-judd-refused-entry-at-ikon-park-20180301-p4z28j.html

 ::)

The great man refused entry last night by an over-zealous gate attendant!

Oh dear.

I think the guy did the right thing. The practice of allowing entry by facial recognition in nonsense. And Judd's comments about the guy having to look for a new job are juvenile, and smack of arrogance.