We all watched Dylan Buckley go it alone with Goddard until Jamison strolled in late to push Goddard away but on Footy Classified they also showed an Essendon newbie in Jason Ashby pushing Marc Murphy on the boundary line......its not on and Murphy should have not allowed some pimply faced kid to stand over him....Murphy took it and walked away. We have to get tougher as a team and Murphy has to toughen up as captain or lose the job IMO.
Its sends the wrong message to the playing group and to opposing teams......we were/are weak and the Bombers know they can bully us.
We all watched Dylan Buckley go it alone with Goddard until Jamison strolled in late to push Goddard away but on Footy Classified they also showed an Essendon newbie in Jason Ashby pushing Marc Murphy on the boundary line......its not on and Murphy should have not allowed some pimply faced kid to stand over him....Murphy took it and walked away. We have to get tougher as a team and Murphy has to toughen up as captain or lose the job IMO.
Its sends the wrong message to the playing group and to opposing teams......we were/are weak and the Bombers know they can bully us.
There's no love in this team EB.
They've never backed each other .
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
Agree with this. Our team really needs "To harden the f&*k up"
It comes down to that Introvert / Extrovert mix again, we have too many of one!
Plus our players have been indoctrinated by Judd over the last few years to move on with play while he keeps three opposition players busy trying to rough him up. Judd actively encourages our guys to move on while he attracts the attention, in effect Judd was playing the role at Carlton that Cousin's had played so well at West Coast.
But in Judd's absence this doesn't work, and our players do not know what to do? The only mid who goes close is McLean who has a bit of mongrel and the body size to cope with the attention, Bell is starting to work into it and Armfield shows some promise.
We all watched Dylan Buckley go it alone with Goddard until Jamison strolled in late to push Goddard away but on Footy Classified they also showed an Essendon newbie in Jason Ashby pushing Marc Murphy on the boundary line......its not on and Murphy should have not allowed some pimply faced kid to stand over him....Murphy took it and walked away. We have to get tougher as a team and Murphy has to toughen up as captain or lose the job IMO.
Its sends the wrong message to the playing group and to opposing teams......we were/are weak and the Bombers know they can bully us.
I also found that embarrassing and was glad it had the public light shone on it.
With that kind of lame reaction and support (for Jimmy's boy) any wonder a lot of our blokes would feel like they're on their own. Sheesh.
And for our Skipper to roll over so easily (spirit probably broken - which should never happen in a Skipper) was just about as soft as soft can be.
Sticks made the comment that this is a man's game... well we sure did have a lot of boys out there on Sunday.
There was also another moment in the game involving Murph, where he tackled a player and tried to bring him to the ground but just slipped off whilst wacking his face into the said blokes hip, taking himself to ground holding his face and the other guy just waltzing off.
You could see the intent of Murph but just not strong enough to carry it out. It actually looked a little embarrassing. :-[
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
Hey at least Greg Swann got what he always wanted! :))
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
He did well against Essendon though...
Another of my favourite hobby-horses, the need to recruit some more thugs, toe-cutters & standover merchants.
Robinson showed that he is prepared to stand up for his team-mates but he doesn't do it enough. Last year he stood between Gibbs & five Essendon bozos and basically said, "if you want to get to him you have to go through me first", he also held them off physically.
Where was this attitude on Sunday night ??
The word "team" means united or "as one", well it does to me anyway. I've played cricket & footy all of my life and it f you are on my team, I play for you and with you regardless of whether I like you as a person. Pull on the jumper or don the cap, and you are one of us.
"United we stand, divided we fall" is a very old but very well known saying that has stood the test of time. Why are our players not adhering to that is completely beyond my comprehension !!
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
He did well against Essendon though...
I think you missed the sarcasm in that one EB! ;)
That's the scum culture for you. That Corey D'ollio (?) kid did the same thing to us in his first game as well... it has been inculcated into them - by results - that they own us and can lord over us with impunity. Yes, they own us. Great feeling isn't it?
Ryder does it every time. Vickery is another. It's no wonder our little blokes take the odd short step.
Anybody touching Murphy or anybody else should be nailed (and the game provides many fair means of doing that) and a message firmly sent.
It pains me to say it because another club did it first and it looks like copy cat behaviour, but this club really needs to have a line in the sand moment and go from there. No more... no more of this crap.... no more watching your teammates get roughed up by nuffies... no more half steps... no more less than 100% efforts. We can all dream can't we?
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
It certainly has. We have become the well behaved, clean skinned models of gentleman sportsmanship both on and off the field. It's no wonder Essendon's blatant disregard for rules pertaining to use of substances in sport has offended Carlton folk more than any other. Both the AFL and some of our own supporters have well and truly achieved a long fought goal, we are now fully reformed and re-cultured. It shows.
Bring back Jack
We all watched Dylan Buckley go it alone with Goddard until Jamison strolled in late to push Goddard away but on Footy Classified they also showed an Essendon newbie in Jason Ashby pushing Marc Murphy on the boundary line......its not on and Murphy should have not allowed some pimply faced kid to stand over him....Murphy took it and walked away. We have to get tougher as a team and Murphy has to toughen up as captain or lose the job IMO.
Its sends the wrong message to the playing group and to opposing teams......we were/are weak and the Bombers know they can bully us.
There's no love in this team EB.
They've never backed each other .
Hate to say it, but it is true. We do not appear to be a very self cohesive group. In many ways, our inability to work for each other is one of our main issues. Until we believe in each other and work hard for each other, we will not improve significantly.
As mentioned elsewhere, we are a pretty introverted group. Therefore we need to recruit some guys who are not introverted and who show real leadership potential. Not always easy to find, but it helps to have more than we do.
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
It certainly has. We have become the well behaved, clean skinned models of gentleman sportsmanship both on and off the field. It's no wonder Essendon's blatant disregard for rules pertaining to use of substances in sport has offended Carlton folk more than any other. Both the AFL and some of our own supporters have well and truly achieved a long fought goal, we are now fully reformed and re-cultured. It shows.
Yes. Our boys are nice. In fact some are pin-ups... looking good in suits with new hair-styles.
We play nothing like those anti-social uncouth hoods at the Dawks. And don't mention those ruffians at the Cattery. Our boys are rightly pampered in state of the art facilities... not like those philistines in Sydney and other lowly clubs about the place.
That's right, you won't see our boys engaging in rough-house play on the field... no, no, no. We behave ourselves. Like any good introverted group, we are contained and polite. >:(
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
The culture and improvement of the side has been nothing short of remarkable since his departure.
He did well against Essendon though...
I think you missed the sarcasm in that one EB! ;)
I wasnt sure Carrots so I sat on the fence... ;)
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
X2.. I thought we did the correct thing but our hardness issues coincided with him leaving. No doubt about it. We basically stopped beating top 4 sides soon after he left.
I wasnt sure Carrots so I sat on the fence... ;)
Stop sitting on the fence, stand up for yourself! ;D
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
X2.. I thought we did the correct thing but our hardness issues coincided with him leaving. No doubt about it. We basically stopped beating top 4 sides soon after he left.
Every big win was on the back of Fev's brilliance if you go back and take a look. ;)
They didn't stand "in the hole" when Fev was around.
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
X2.. I thought we did the correct thing but our hardness issues coincided with him leaving. No doubt about it. We basically stopped beating top 4 sides soon after he left.
Every big win was on the back of Fev's brilliance if you go back and take a look. ;)
could turn a games on his own boot, even on bad days he come out in a single Q and change the outcome. None of this bullshiit missing shots for goal from 10 to 25m
could turn a games on his own boot, even on bad days he come out in a single Q and change the outcome. None of this bullshiit missing shots for goal from 10 to 25m
We sort of took it for granted that after he left goal kicking would slide a bit, it made us a bit tolerant.
But seriously our goal kicking is a joke now, who is our goal kicking coach, Warnock?
They didn't stand "in the hole" when Fev was around.
As Setanta painfully found out. ;)
They didn't stand "in the hole" when Fev was around.
As Setanta painfully found out. ;)
Mav's never forgiven Fev for that one. :P
could turn a games on his own boot, even on bad days he come out in a single Q and change the outcome. None of this bullshiit missing shots for goal from 10 to 25m
We sort of took it for granted that after he left goal kicking would slide a bit, it made us a bit tolerant.
But seriously our goal kicking is a joke now, who is our goal kicking coach, Warnock?
Even my wife thinks they can't kick and she knows SFA about footy.
They didn't stand "in the hole" when Fev was around.
As Setanta painfully found out. ;)
That had been coming for sometime, it was bad but you could see Fev getting frustrated with O'hAilpin who would cut across in front of him and bring the defenders in with him. Entry after entry, week after week. There had been other remonstrations in the forward line before that day, not just Fev and O'hAilpin but Scotland, Cloke, Simpson and Stevens had all had a crack at big Carlos.
Any chance our guys could start shepherding and blocking opponents so their team mates can get a run at / with the ball? :-[
Any chance our guys could start shepherding and blocking opponents so their team mates can get a run at / with the ball? :-[
I hope so, it stands out doesn't it?
On Sunday night there was a prime example of how this affects the team. There was a kick out from D50 to Curnow on the HFF/Wing, it went over his head and he was running with the flight. Curnow could have easily ran onto that ball, marked it and kept going, he only had one laboring spud Scummer following him who Curonw could have easily burn off. Instead Curnow let the ball bounce, it bounced backwards to his trailing Scum shadow as it tends to do, and was turned over for a cheap ar5e Scum goal.
Curnow let that ball bounce because he had no confidence, no faith, no communications and no experience of others in the team sacrificing themselves for the betterment of the club. If we protected each other, the way the Dawks protect each other, if we gave some chop outs and some shepherds, he would have run onto that ball and into our open F50 without fear!
Sometimes football is that simple!
Of our current list only Scotland and Armfield do the good stuff regularly, the rest I fear are Sunday drivers, even Robbo!
That effort from Curnow pretty much summed up our night.
Scotland is the only bloke that goes every time, no questions asked.
could turn a games on his own boot, even on bad days he come out in a single Q and change the outcome. None of this bullshiit missing shots for goal from 10 to 25m
We sort of took it for granted that after he left goal kicking would slide a bit, it made us a bit tolerant.
But seriously our goal kicking is a joke now, who is our goal kicking coach, Warnock?
Even my wife thinks they can't kick and she knows SFA about footy.
Funny about that...Mrs Elwood who knows SFA about footy as well came into the rumpus room to see what all the yelling was about.....and noticed Yarran streaming downfield and kicked straight to an Essendon player....and she said he's on your team isnt he and laughed....more yelling from your's truly and children followed...
could turn a games on his own boot, even on bad days he come out in a single Q and change the outcome. None of this bullshiit missing shots for goal from 10 to 25m
We sort of took it for granted that after he left goal kicking would slide a bit, it made us a bit tolerant.
But seriously our goal kicking is a joke now, who is our goal kicking coach, Warnock?
Even my wife thinks they can't kick and she knows SFA about footy.
Funny about that...Mrs Elwood who knows SFA about footy as well came into the rumpus room to see what all the yelling was about.....and noticed Yarran streaming downfield and kicked straight to an Essendon player....and she said he's on your team isnt he and laughed....more yelling from your's truly and children followed...
:)) :)) Sounds just like last Sunday night at our place. Maybe Mrs Elwood and Mrs Baggers can go catch a movie and you and I can hurl cushions and abuse at the tv!!
Mrs Baggers joined me at the NBs game on Sunday arvo, then not more than 20 minutes into the seniors game (at home) she commented that we saw a better CFC at PP that arvo!
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
Fev and many before him P2C. Dylan's dad would have walked upto BJ and knocked him into the next week. We are timid and weak, Murphy is the perfect example. Its not his fault because he didn't make the decision to appoint him, but I think he is the possibly worst Captain in CFC history. Sadly, Judd aside, there isn't anyone in the current group that would deserve to tie the shoelaces of almost any of our past Captains. Sad really. Captains are picked by boards and marketing depts, they pick themselves. When Murphy got chested on the boundary line the other night by the young Essendon player, with no reaction, that said it all for me really.
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
Fev and many before him P2C. Dylan's dad would have walked upto BJ and knocked him into the next week. We are timid and weak, Murphy is the perfect example. Its not his fault because he didn't make the decision to appoint him, but I think he is the possibly worst Captain in CFC history. Sadly, Judd aside, there isn't anyone in the current group that would deserve to tie the shoelaces of almost any of our past Captains. Sad really. Captains are picked by boards and marketing depts, they pick themselves. When Murphy got chested on the boundary line the other night by the young Essendon player, with no reaction, that said it all for me really.
Interesting that Dunstall singled out our timidness/meekness as one of the most surprising and really disappointing aspects of our players from Sunday night.
Or guys rarely show any of that stuff.
But one thing is for sure, if you don't believe in the cause you won't put up a fight.
These guys don't believe in what they are being asked to do nor do they believe the guy with the message.
Hate to say it but Fev wouldn't let anyone stand over our blokes and quite often deployed a few standover tactics himself. Love him or hate him, he was the heart of the side.
Fev and many before him P2C. Dylan's dad would have walked upto BJ and knocked him into the next week. We are timid and weak, Murphy is the perfect example. Its not his fault because he didn't make the decision to appoint him, but I think he is the possibly worst Captain in CFC history. Sadly, Judd aside, there isn't anyone in the current group that would deserve to tie the shoelaces of almost any of our past Captains. Sad really. Captains are picked by boards and marketing depts, they pick themselves. When Murphy got chested on the boundary line the other night by the young Essendon player, with no reaction, that said it all for me really.
Interesting that Dunstall singled out our timidness/meekness as one of the most surprising and really disappointing aspects of our players from Sunday night.
Monga Lloyd has highlighted this as well.
Can't really do anything about that except smash them next time they go for the ball and that part of Murphy's game went when he busted his collar bone.
This whole thread gets me so riled up.
Most of our blokes ARE NOT SOFT but they are excessively nice. That's the issue as far as I'm concerned... we are too fair. As a club we do not do the stuff around the fringes of the rules that other clubs do oh so well.
IMO this is a reflection of this club being so pounded by the AFL that it is now excessively fair in every regard for fear of consequences. Off field and now on field.
Imagine the condemnation that Murphy would have received had he slotted Astbury? "No discipline at Carlton" would be all over the small paper. Tsk Tsk from Robinson, Connolly and Smith.
Yea, Simmo was really soft going at the pill when sheringdog wiped him out.
Murph is soft? How much protection has he ever had? Nailed in his first year in Brisbane, hammered in a contest by Dangerfield and then by Hodge. Yep, gave away 15 kgs each time and still contested. Yea, soft apparently.
Yea, Joseph was really soft when Ziebell nailed him.
Every time we retaliate it backfires spectacularly. How about some protection for our players from officialdom... oh wait, they're too busy sending Waite letters for "staging".
As for Lloyd, what a &(^^ing hypocrite.
I remember Lloyd giving our blokes a couple then running like a scared cat when O'hailpan came at him. Then he faked and the stupid umpires gave him a second shot on goal which ended up being the winning margin.
There's an old Chinese saying; don't wrestle a pig in the gutter...
There's an old Chinese saying; don't wrestle a pig in the gutter...
because you'll both end up down the drain (?)
This whole thread gets me so riled up.
Most of our blokes ARE NOT SOFT but they are excessively nice. That's the issue as far as I'm concerned... we are too fair. As a club we do not do the stuff around the fringes of the rules that other clubs do oh so well.
IMO this is a reflection of this club being so pounded by the AFL that it is now excessively fair in every regard for fear of consequences. Off field and now on field.
Imagine the condemnation that Murphy would have received had he slotted Astbury? "No discipline at Carlton" would be all over the small paper. Tsk Tsk from Robinson, Connolly and Smith.
Actually this may be more a symptom of the giant spray the coach, leadership group and club gave Waite after his indiscretions.
Getting done retaliating is not longer acceptable, the club will deep fry you, I think it was exactly the wrong message. I would be saying if you are going to get a week make it worthwhile, something the jerk won't forget, don't get a week for a love tap! Until we have a few brutal moments in our clubs profile, other clubs will continue to bully us! For example, this is the whole premise the Jack Ziebel plays on, he doesn't offer much else! ;)
One can contest aggressively even bully , but be smart about it . That's what needs to be taught and instilled into the players, it will take a long time and right attitude, from leaders examples. That's the difference.
Look at Hodge, Mitchell, skilled and experienced and yet they get away with it easily so often.
Retaliating per say is childish and unprofessional and will land them in more trouble.
Marci....means lot of things but basically;
1. They will drag you down to their level.
2. They will be fighting on their preferred ground.
3. You will get covered in crap.
Essentially; be smarter and pick the time and place so it suits you.
One can contest aggressively even bully , but be smart about it . That's what needs to be taught and instilled into the players, it will take a long time and right attitude, from leaders examples. That's the difference.
Look at Hodge, Mitchell, skilled and experienced and yet they get away with it easily so often.
Retaliating per say is childish and unprofessional and will land them in more trouble.
Hodge is a smug thug sniper, and the Dawks love him for it!
So why can't we be the same?
From Professor E..."Most of our blokes ARE NOT SOFT but they are excessively nice. That's the issue as far as I'm concerned... we are too fair. As a club we do not do the stuff around the fringes of the rules that other clubs do oh so well...."
Agree with you there brother. I watch Hawks players man the mark and they're are on it and jumping all over it to make it hard for opponents to kick over. Most times, you will find that they grab an extra 50cm or so without penalty and force opponents to kick around the mark. Our blokes? Not street smart at all. One example is minding the mark when the opposition is kicking for goal. If you do the physics, the taller the player on the mark, the further back the opponent has to walk to have a kick especially if he has hands up (take note Warnock). Why isn't a ruckman, or tall back standing the mark when shooting for goal? It's the 1 percenters and team smarts that are killing our team.
From Professor E..."Most of our blokes ARE NOT SOFT but they are excessively nice. That's the issue as far as I'm concerned... we are too fair. As a club we do not do the stuff around the fringes of the rules that other clubs do oh so well...."
Agree with you there brother. I watch Hawks players man the mark and they're are on it and jumping all over it to make it hard for opponents to kick over. Most times, you will find that they grab an extra 50cm or so without penalty and force opponents to kick around the mark. Our blokes? Not street smart at all. One example is minding the mark when the opposition is kicking for goal. If you do the physics, the taller the player on the mark, the further back the opponent has to walk to have a kick especially if he has hands up (take note Warnock). Why isn't a ruckman, or tall back standing the mark when shooting for goal? It's the 1 percenters and team smarts that are killing our team.
Also when the Hawkers tackle the tackle to hurt, whereas when we tackle we slip off and they run free. ::)
re: Hawks....you mess with a Hawks player then their captain in Hodge is in their first flying the flag...
Murphy will never be that sort of player...was/is the wrong choice...he needs a Hodge looking after him..
re: Hawks....you mess with a Hawks player then their captain in Hodge is in their first flying the flag...
Murphy will never be that sort of player...was/is the wrong choice...he needs a Hodge looking after him..
Hodge is the biggest sniper going around >:(
re: Hawks....you mess with a Hawks player then their captain in Hodge is in their first flying the flag...
Murphy will never be that sort of player...was/is the wrong choice...he needs a Hodge looking after him..
Hodge is the biggest sniper going around >:(
He does snipe but he also sticks up for his teammates....
Jofo... its so freakin' obvious isn't ? It's as if our blokes are almost scared of transgressing.
Put the tallest player on the mark. Pretty basic isn't it. How about our blokes then working the mark in a serious fashion?
Others that I see are every week are defenders cribbing the mark and forwards taking kicks from spots that are preferable from whence they took the mark. Small things, but hey all count.
Unnecessary holding and "treatment" to blokes on the ground is another bugbear of mine... just lying on the ground remonstrating with an umpire buys that extra second for the defence to re-set etc... Juddy must be heartily sick of that rubbish by now.
Another that irritates me is Chappy chirping to the umpires all the time. What makes him so special that he is allowed to do this, I thought only captains could approach an umpire? Do they just give him frees to shut him up?
Maybe its time that somebody took them on.
Twenty extra 1 percenters per game gives us 20% better performance. Could be the difference.
Maybe its time that somebody took them on.
It is telling me that one of our guys needs to really make a statement and despatch someone into the middle of next week if they try and mess with us - ideally quite legally. Then it is let out quietly around the traps that this is what to expect if you mess with any of our guys. >:(
lots of quotes.....
Monga Lloyd has highlighted this as well.
Sad day when Lloyd starts calling us weak, was embarrassed when I read it :-[
Any chance our guys could start shepherding and blocking opponents so their team mates can get a run at / with the ball? :-[
I hope so, it stands out doesn't it?
On Sunday night there was a prime example of how this affects the team. There was a kick out from D50 to Curnow on the HFF/Wing, it went over his head and he was running with the flight. Curnow could have easily ran onto that ball, marked it and kept going, he only had one laboring spud Scummer following him who Curonw could have easily burn off. Instead Curnow let the ball bounce, it bounced backwards to his trailing Scum shadow as it tends to do, and was turned over for a cheap ar5e Scum goal.
Curnow let that ball bounce because he had no confidence, no faith, no communications and no experience of others in the team sacrificing themselves for the betterment of the club. If we protected each other, the way the Dawks protect each other, if we gave some chop outs and some shepherds, he would have run onto that ball and into our open F50 without fear!
Sometimes football is that simple!
Of our current list only Scotland and Armfield do the good stuff regularly, the rest I fear are Sunday drivers, even Robbo!
If its the same situation I'm thinking of - Curnow didn't run onto the ball as he was being HELD. Cheats FC players were doing it all night (1 free against Hocking for holding Murphy off the ball vs the 78 times he did it). It goes back to another comment on here (about cribbing the mark etc) - we just dont push the rules. Hocking holds Murph all night, CheatsFC players dive on our mids a fraction before we take posession, and what do we do the other way?? Nicely wait for them to get the ball, give them a beat, then think about grabbing a jumper.
Maybe its time that somebody took them on.
It is telling me that one of our guys needs to really make a statement and despatch someone into the middle of next week if they try and mess with us - ideally quite legally. Then it is let out quietly around the traps that this is what to expect if you mess with any of our guys. >:(
Do we have anyone that can do it? Casboult has the size.
Not sure he has the mongrel although he can crash a pack.
I'd play him despite form, with instructions to just go hard at contests and put a bit of doubt into the opposition.
That would be his main job and his spot would depend on how well he did that task.
We need to get the opposition looking over their shoulders.
Is it a one man job?....probably not but it's a start.
There are two things you can bank:
i. Jimmy Buckley would have been seething on Sunday night and not at Goddard, at our own players. The Buckley, Sheldon, Johnston, Maclure, Harmes, Rhys Jones era would not let anyone get away with anything like that. Maclure on 'The Blue Print' told the story of Malthouse roughing up an 18 y.y. Glascott. Malthouse did not finish the game.........
ii. Dylan Buckley would be in like a flash to fly the flag for a team mate.
Dylan Buckley would be in like a flash to fly the flag for a team mate.
I think he would too, and good on him, he's won me...but if we're leaving it to one of our smallest players were in a bit of strife.
Bloody terrific comments here. This is probably one of the most important threads at present... supported by the apparent fact that the players came out of their meeting after Sunday night realising they had not played for each other.
How could that happen in the first place? Seething. :( :(
Why can't this group concentrate for 120 minutes? A previous poster mentioned how the Dawks players jump around all over the mark, and I would add that they invariably also grab a cm or 55 in the process - that takes an attitude of absolute rage that the opposition has got the aggott and a ruthless commitment to give 150% of every second of every minute to make it tough for opponents when they've got the aggott, plus a ruthless commitment to get it back... etc. (terribly worded paragraph... hope you get what I mean).
This group won't win a Premiership but FFS let's at least get the best out of them between now and r22 so we know who stays and who goes. And that could easily apply to all coaches as well.
Bloody terrific comments here. This is probably one of the most important threads at present... supported by the apparent fact that the players came out of their meeting after Sunday night realising they had not played for each other.
How could that happen in the first place? Seething. :( :(
Why can't this group concentrate for 120 minutes? A previous poster mentioned how the Dawks players jump around all over the mark, and I would add that they invariably also grab a cm or 55 in the process - that takes an attitude of absolute rage that the opposition has got the aggott and a ruthless commitment to give 150% of every second of every minute to make it tough for opponents when they've got the aggott, plus a ruthless commitment to get it back... etc. (terribly worded paragraph... hope you get what I mean).
This group won't win a Premiership but FFS let's at least get the best out of them between now and r22 so we know who stays and who goes. And that could easily apply to all coaches as well.
difference with the hawks is 3 fold
hard to get back into the side if you fk up
they have a real resolve not to let their mates down
their leadership group is as hard as nails
we just don't have any of that at carlton
There is still time to grow some balls. We saw Brisbane turn it around and win a flag after we flogged them in 2001. I think we need to stop bagging our guys and let them know what we expect from them. A hard, uncompromising, team-oriented effort.
"And they will know that they've been playing
Against the famous Old Dark Blues"
To me at least, this line has always meant that the opposition will ALWAYS come off the ground after the final siren battered and bruised knowing they have played a tough, hard game of football and where if they didn't play at their best, they were going to get smashed.
To me we have lost an important and proud part of our culture. Surely some of the spirit of Carlton guys could remind our current players what the last couple of lines of our song is supposed to mean !!
We all watched Dylan Buckley go it alone with Goddard until Jamison strolled in late to push Goddard away but on Footy Classified they also showed an Essendon newbie in Jason Ashby pushing Marc Murphy on the boundary line......its not on and Murphy should have not allowed some pimply faced kid to stand over him....Murphy took it and walked away. We have to get tougher as a team and Murphy has to toughen up as captain or lose the job IMO.
Its sends the wrong message to the playing group and to opposing teams......we were/are weak and the Bombers know they can bully us.
Yeah, I just don't get it. I thought the club was fuming over the Lonergan incident a couple of years ago. All that fuming only produced what we saw on Sunday. Pox!
One can contest aggressively even bully , but be smart about it . That's what needs to be taught and instilled into the players, it will take a long time and right attitude, from leaders examples. That's the difference.
Look at Hodge, Mitchell, skilled and experienced and yet they get away with it easily so often.
Retaliating per say is childish and unprofessional and will land them in more trouble.
Hodge is a smug thug sniper, and the Dawks love him for it!
Add to that overrated hack IMO however by Christ he can lead a group of men. He talks people listen, he acts people are intimidated.
Love it when we start talking up mongrel, ruthlessness and spirit... the all dark navy spirit.
Also love that the players came out of their heart-to-heart wanting to commit to playing more for their team mates. Now that should be the very last meeting where that should be stated... that ethic should flow through their veins in every second of every game from hereon - has to be as 2nd nature as breathing.
"And they will know that they've been playing
Against the famous Old Dark Blues"
To me at least, this line has always meant that the opposition will ALWAYS come off the ground after the final siren battered and bruised knowing they have played a tough, hard game of football and where if they didn't play at their best, they were going to get smashed.
To me we have lost an important and proud part of our culture. Surely some of the spirit of Carlton guys could remind our current players what the last couple of lines of our song is supposed to mean !!
that's why Brereton was a legend several years ago
in one game, he changed the culture of what the jumper means
never again were they bent over
difference with the hawks is 3 fold
hard to get back into the side if you fk up
they have a real resolve not to let their mates down
their leadership group is as hard as nails
we just don't have any of that at carlton
Zero
One can contest aggressively even bully , but be smart about it . That's what needs to be taught and instilled into the players, it will take a long time and right attitude, from leaders examples. That's the difference.
Look at Hodge, Mitchell, skilled and experienced and yet they get away with it easily so often.
Retaliating per say is childish and unprofessional and will land them in more trouble.
Hodge is a smug thug sniper, and the Dawks love him for it!
Add to that overrated hack IMO however by Christ he can lead a group of men. He talks people listen, he acts people are intimidated.
fk no, he plays til he bleeds
he takes out players - the victims take it as a compliment.
best leader by example - in the selwood mould
His team mates genuinely do not want to let him down
There is still time to grow some balls. We saw Brisbane turn it around and win a flag after we flogged them in 2001. I think we need to stop bagging our guys and let them know what we expect from them. A hard, uncompromising, team-oriented effort.
One word, Ruthless.
There is still time to grow some balls. We saw Brisbane turn it around and win a flag after we flogged them in 2001. I think we need to stop bagging our guys and let them know what we expect from them. A hard, uncompromising, team-oriented effort.
One word, Ruthless.
Always been my favourite word for our football club... now for our group to get that word into their blood stream.
"And they will know that they've been playing
Against the famous Old Dark Blues"
To me at least, this line has always meant that the opposition will ALWAYS come off the ground after the final siren battered and bruised knowing they have played a tough, hard game of football and where if they didn't play at their best, they were going to get smashed.
To me we have lost an important and proud part of our culture. Surely some of the spirit of Carlton guys could remind our current players what the last couple of lines of our song is supposed to mean !!
I have been to many SOC lunches and functions, I have seen the current day players at these functions. Despite being the presence of some of Australian Rules's greatest players, they are constantly looking at their phones and watches dying to get the fork out of there.
"And they will know that they've been playing
Against the famous Old Dark Blues"
To me at least, this line has always meant that the opposition will ALWAYS come off the ground after the final siren battered and bruised knowing they have played a tough, hard game of football and where if they didn't play at their best, they were going to get smashed.
To me we have lost an important and proud part of our culture. Surely some of the spirit of Carlton guys could remind our current players what the last couple of lines of our song is supposed to mean !!
I have been to many SOC lunches and functions, I have seen the current day players at these functions. Despite being the presence of some of Australian Rules's greatest players, they are constantly looking at their phones and watches dying to get the fork out of there.
that's a concern
"And they will know that they've been playing
Against the famous Old Dark Blues"
To me at least, this line has always meant that the opposition will ALWAYS come off the ground after the final siren battered and bruised knowing they have played a tough, hard game of football and where if they didn't play at their best, they were going to get smashed.
To me we have lost an important and proud part of our culture. Surely some of the spirit of Carlton guys could remind our current players what the last couple of lines of our song is supposed to mean !!
I have been to many SOC lunches and functions, I have seen the current day players at these functions. Despite being the presence of some of Australian Rules's greatest players, they are constantly looking at their phones and watches dying to get the fork out of there.
that's a concern
WO... that is a serious concern. That shows a lack of respect; lack of appreciation of what is around them.
Totally unacceptable in every way. Club has to ban those f*cking phones and instruct our jellybacks to look and learn. Mmm, sorry, bit harsh, but maybe but our softness has to be addressed by smart but uncompromised discipline. Ruthless discipline. Don't like it? Then f*ck off.
There is still time to grow some balls. We saw Brisbane turn it around and win a flag after we flogged them in 2001. I think we need to stop bagging our guys and let them know what we expect from them. A hard, uncompromising, team-oriented effort.
One word, Ruthless.
Always been my favourite word for our football club... now for our group to get that word into their blood stream.
Baggers our teams of old had this word in their the blood stream. They went out week in week out and were Ruthless in their approach. You knew you played against us. They didn't win every single game but the Ruthless attitude against your opposition WAS not negotiable in days gone by. Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney believe in being Ruthless week in week out and it is non negotiable. Watch them run out, you can see it in their eyes, its a look. I salivate at the thought of our blokes being Ruthless week in week out. It wouldn't matter to me one bit if they lost a game so long as everyone to man can look at each other in the eye and honestly say "I was Ruthless today for 120 mins".
Yeah, I just don't get it. I thought the club was fuming over the Lonergan incident a couple of years ago. All that fuming only produced what we saw on Sunday. Pox!
Without wishing to inflame the Ratten sacking debate, I'm pretty sure that it was Ratten who was fuming over the Lonergan incident. It probably isn't front of mind for Malthouse and wouldn't have figured in the pre-game build-up.
The issue of standing up to attempted intimidation and being intimidating ourselves is problematic because the players are schooled to curb their emotions and fined or otherwise penalised if they get reported. It's also a long standing issue with Hawthorn revealing how easy it was to put our players off their game quite a few years ago.
It won't happen but a few team rules could turn this around:
1. The opposition tagger must be sat on their arse within the first 5 minutes.
2. The opposition tagger must be blocked and bumped at every opportunity.
3. Anyone who gets in the skipper's face must be sat on their arse immediately.
4. Anyone who gets in the face of any of our younger or smaller players must be immediately sat on their arse.
5. Our bigger blokes (anyone over 90kg) must throw their weight around, even if it gives up a free.
6. The opposition must "know that they've been playing against the famous Old Dark Blues" because they will be black and blue.
Playing Bell and Robbo is an essential part of giving the team a harder edge. Casboult could be handy too. In fact, I'd be happy to overlook flaws in their games as long as they get physical with the opposition.
Rowe is another one. I remember being pleased with his recruitment because he made a statement about hurting opponents. He has to be encouraged to do that.
Of course, I don't mean sniping or taking cheap shots; just going hard at the footy - and anyone who happens to be in the way.
Yeah, I just don't get it. I thought the club was fuming over the Lonergan incident a couple of years ago. All that fuming only produced what we saw on Sunday. Pox!
Without wishing to inflame the Ratten sacking debate, I'm pretty sure that it was Ratten who was fuming over the Lonergan incident. It probably isn't front of mind for Malthouse and wouldn't have figured in the pre-game build-up.
The issue of standing up to attempted intimidation and being intimidating ourselves is problematic because the players are schooled to curb their emotions and fined or otherwise penalised if they get reported. It's also a long standing issue with Hawthorn revealing how easy it was to put our players off their game quite a few years ago.
It won't happen but a few team rules could turn this around:
1. The opposition tagger must be sat on their arse within the first 5 minutes.
2. The opposition tagger must be blocked and bumped at every opportunity.
3. Anyone who gets in the skipper's face must be sat on their arse immediately.
4. Anyone who gets in the face of any of our younger or smaller players must be immediately sat on their arse.
5. Our bigger blokes (anyone over 90kg) must throw their weight around, even if it gives up a free.
6. The opposition must "know that they've been playing against the famous Old Dark Blues" because they will be black and blue.
Playing Bell and Robbo is an essential part of giving the team a harder edge. Casboult could be handy too. In fact, I'd be happy to overlook flaws in their games as long as they get physical with the opposition.
Rowe is another one. I remember being pleased with his recruitment because he made a statement about hurting opponents. He has to be encouraged to do that.
Of course, I don't mean sniping or taking cheap shots; just going hard at the footy - and anyone who happens to be in the way.
Agree with all of that...any chance you can start in Micks job on Saturday about 1.30pm... ;)
Yeah, I just don't get it. I thought the club was fuming over the Lonergan incident a couple of years ago. All that fuming only produced what we saw on Sunday. Pox!
Without wishing to inflame the Ratten sacking debate, I'm pretty sure that it was Ratten who was fuming over the Lonergan incident. It probably isn't front of mind for Malthouse and wouldn't have figured in the pre-game build-up.
The issue of standing up to attempted intimidation and being intimidating ourselves is problematic because the players are schooled to curb their emotions and fined or otherwise penalised if they get reported. It's also a long standing issue with Hawthorn revealing how easy it was to put our players off their game quite a few years ago.
It won't happen but a few team rules could turn this around:
1. The opposition tagger must be sat on their arse within the first 5 minutes.
2. The opposition tagger must be blocked and bumped at every opportunity.
3. Anyone who gets in the skipper's face must be sat on their arse immediately.
4. Anyone who gets in the face of any of our younger or smaller players must be immediately sat on their arse.
5. Our bigger blokes (anyone over 90kg) must throw their weight around, even if it gives up a free.
6. The opposition must "know that they've been playing against the famous Old Dark Blues" because they will be black and blue.
Playing Bell and Robbo is an essential part of giving the team a harder edge. Casboult could be handy too. In fact, I'd be happy to overlook flaws in their games as long as they get physical with the opposition.
Rowe is another one. I remember being pleased with his recruitment because he made a statement about hurting opponents. He has to be encouraged to do that.
Of course, I don't mean sniping or taking cheap shots; just going hard at the footy - and anyone who happens to be in the way.
If you can't do Micks job on the weekend, could you at least sms this post to him. ;)
Sorry fellas, I'm babysitting my grandsons on Saturday ;)
Sorry fellas, I'm babysitting my grandsons on Saturday ;)
Bring em along. We need some players with ticker. ;)
We need to immediately instil a culture of "consequence"
you let the team down? there's a consequence.
you fail in an act that puts your brothers in harms way? there's a consequence
you have a chance in a game to redeem yourself
you fail?
you have to earn back the respect through the 2's
some in the 2's has done the right thing? needs to be rewarded
The ethos works equally both ways - until that happens, you have no rules, you have no culture!
When Mick says, "I know the bloke, I know his character"
Mick, you know nothing until its proven in the eyes of other team mates - not words, not vibes
When you have rules and consequences - the team picks itself!
Yes. They must be prepared to pay the price!
We need to immediately instil a culture of "consequence"
you let the team down? there's a consequence.
you fail in an act that puts your brothers in harms way? there's a consequence
you have a chance in a game to redeem yourself
you fail?
you have to earn back the respect through the 2's
some in the 2's has done the right thing? needs to be rewarded
The ethos works equally both ways - until that happens, you have no rules, you have no culture!
When Mick says, "I know the bloke, I know his character"
Mick, you know nothing until its proven in the eyes of other team mates - not words, not vibes
When you have rules and consequences - the team picks itself!
Where's the 'Like' button?
We need to immediately instil a culture of "consequence"
you let the team down? there's a consequence.
you fail in an act that puts your brothers in harms way? there's a consequence
you have a chance in a game to redeem yourself
you fail?
you have to earn back the respect through the 2's
some in the 2's has done the right thing? needs to be rewarded
The ethos works equally both ways - until that happens, you have no rules, you have no culture!
When Mick says, "I know the bloke, I know his character"
Mick, you know nothing until its proven in the eyes of other team mates - not words, not vibes
When you have rules and consequences - the team picks itself!
Ruthless
Our new-old mantra. RUTHLESS!!!!!!
MM is a good coach, and from what I hear a good guy
but in sharper focus now he's at the blues, what I see is a one dimensional
coach.
A true professional is defined by someone who works with what he's got, not seek excuses in what he hasn't.
I m surprised no one on the board reminded him strongly of this when he presented during the week
when I saw his results in 2002-3 with the list he had - the admiration from me was he was able to get a list to collectively play
better than their capabilities.
this seems to have escaped him in later years.
His challenges are not the game plan and whether the team can play it. Its to instil confidence in each and everyone of them personally that it can be done - not through his assistants - HIM PERSONALLY.
His coaching skills needs to adapt from the physical aspects, to what's above the shoulders.
If he fails to do this - he has to understand there will be consequences
The luxury of list culls and prize recruits are conversations to be had by coaches of lesser ability
MM is a good coach, and from what I hear a good guy
but in sharper focus now he's at the blues, what I see is a one dimensional
coach.
A true professional is defined by someone who works with what he's got, not seek excuses in what he hasn't.
I m surprised no one on the board reminded him strongly of this when he presented during the week
when I saw his results in 2002-3 with the list he had - the admiration from me was he was able to get a list to collectively play
better than their capabilities.
this seems to have escaped him in later years.
His challenges are not the game plan and whether the team can play it. Its to instil confidence in each and everyone of them personally that it can be done - not through his assistants - HIM PERSONALLY.
His coaching skills needs to adapt from the physical aspects, to what's above the shoulders.
If he fails to do this - he has to understand there will be consequences
The luxury of list culls and prize recruits are conversations to be had by coaches of lesser ability
You speak with a wise mind TTB ;)
MM is a good coach, and from what I hear a good guy
but in sharper focus now he's at the blues, what I see is a one dimensional
coach.
A true professional is defined by someone who works with what he's got, not seek excuses in what he hasn't.
I m surprised no one on the board reminded him strongly of this when he presented during the week
when I saw his results in 2002-3 with the list he had - the admiration from me was he was able to get a list to collectively play
better than their capabilities.
this seems to have escaped him in later years.
His challenges are not the game plan and whether the team can play it. Its to instil confidence in each and everyone of them personally that it can be done - not through his assistants - HIM PERSONALLY.
His coaching skills needs to adapt from the physical aspects, to what's above the shoulders.
If he fails to do this - he has to understand there will be consequences
The luxury of list culls and prize recruits are conversations to be had by coaches of lesser ability
You can't make Strawberry Jam out of pig crap
MM is a good coach, and from what I hear a good guy
but in sharper focus now he's at the blues, what I see is a one dimensional
coach.
A true professional is defined by someone who works with what he's got, not seek excuses in what he hasn't.
I m surprised no one on the board reminded him strongly of this when he presented during the week
when I saw his results in 2002-3 with the list he had - the admiration from me was he was able to get a list to collectively play
better than their capabilities.
this seems to have escaped him in later years.
His challenges are not the game plan and whether the team can play it. Its to instil confidence in each and everyone of them personally that it can be done - not through his assistants - HIM PERSONALLY.
His coaching skills needs to adapt from the physical aspects, to what's above the shoulders.
If he fails to do this - he has to understand there will be consequences
The luxury of list culls and prize recruits are conversations to be had by coaches of lesser ability
You can't make Strawberry Jam out of pig crap
1st 1/4 1st round was strawberry jam
Last sunday was pig crap
The worry is that we could be pig cr@p that sometimes masquerades as strawberry jam, albeit very briefly and not often enough?
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Can you make Pig cr&p from strawberry jam? :o
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
Not good enough for me - I'm over that.
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
Not good enough for me - I'm over that.
I think we're all sick of it but that's the first step. When's the last time we did it?
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
Not good enough for me - I'm over that.
I think we're all sick of it but that's the first step. When's the last time we did it?
Of course it's a first step - but it won't make me happy (well maybe very briefly). I'm resigned atm to not being made happy this year, and even if I am I'll be worried all the time we might slip back in any given game! I've realised I'm insecure about it if you like - that's what barracking for this club over the past 10 years does to you. :o
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
Not good enough for me - I'm over that.
I think we're all sick of it but that's the first step. When's the last time we did it?
Of course it's a first step - but it won't make me happy (well maybe very briefly). I'm resigned atm to not being made happy this year, and even if I am I'll be worried all the time we might slip back in any given game! I've realised I'm insecure about it if you like - that's what barracking for this club over the past 10 years does to you. :o
x 2
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
That's what you get when the club as a core do not have solid fundamentals.
when you do have the core fundamentals, you can go to a game and know with confidence that they will play 100% for each other
Winning football games is done by teams that can do this longer.
Trouble is today, I m not sure what I m going to get - because its a week to week proposition
I've got no faith atm that this group can play well on a consistent basis - hope they prove my fears to be unfounded.
Don't worry about playing well consistently. I will be happy to play consistently in a single game.
We were consistently crap vs the peptides.
Saw an interview with English football Legend Kevin Keegan, and he said something htat got me thinking...
He was talking about leadership, and the importance of leaders and senior figures around Clubs, and how important good solid Leadership is to success and to assisting youngsters coming through the ranks.
He said every Club needs that senior bloke who wouldn't be afraid to put a youngster into place, like give him a verbal or physical clip, and let him know the standards expected around the Club.
This got me thinking...... I cant imagine any of the so called 'Leaders' from around our Club over the past 10 or so years that would / would ve done this.
We used to have Leaders throughout the team back in the day... These days, you d struggle to find another player apart from maybe Juddy or Carrots, who'd let the youngers know what's expected at Carlton.
How sad we ve become....
Saw an interview with English football Legend Kevin Keegan, and he said something htat got me thinking...
He was talking about leadership, and the importance of leaders and senior figures around Clubs, and how important good solid Leadership is to success and to assisting youngsters coming through the ranks.
He said every Club needs that senior bloke who wouldn't be afraid to put a youngster into place, like give him a verbal or physical clip, and let him know the standards expected around the Club.
This got me thinking...... I cant imagine any of the so called 'Leaders' from around our Club over the past 10 or so years that would / would ve done this.
We used to have Leaders throughout the team back in the day... These days, you d struggle to find another player apart from maybe Juddy or Carrots, who'd let the youngers know what's expected at Carlton.
How sad we ve become....
That's a symptom of lack of success though Dom.
Can you imagine a young Carlton lad coming into the side in 1973 or 1983.
There would be role models to the left and right of them.....but those same role models started their times at the club with the likes of Jesaulenko, Nicholls, Walls, Silvagni, Hunter, Doull, Southby....and the Dominator (not sure just what they'd learn from him ;)) to watch and learn from.
The Geelongs and Hawthorns will have no trouble in the leadership stakes for the next decade.
As well as being bashed senseless in his first couple of years, because no-one would stand up for him, who has Murphy had to guide him.
These days, you d struggle to find another player apart from maybe Juddy or Carrots, who'd let the youngers know what's expected at Carlton.
How sad we ve become....
[/quote
McLean is a very straight shooter! but then he goes and sulks in the corner!
As well as being bashed senseless in his first couple of years, because no-one would stand up for him, who has Murphy had to guide him.
Interesting that Jab Watson on TFS last night commented on what a difficult job it is, especially for a young bloke to learn as you go along. Only thing is Murph is not a young bloke and he still has no idea so that makes him an even worse candidate. Whoever selected Murph, whether it was MM or his (Murph's) peers, it was a miscalculation of epic proportions.
Go back to the Pagan days where he stripped the club of a lot of the older boys that were part of that culture of leadership for the young-uns.
Takes awhile for that leadership culture to grow again, but you need to have success to be able to have confidence to do it as well as the newbies looking up to a successful footballer.
In Carlton's case, it is a real CATCH 22 >:(
Go back to the Pagan days where he stripped the club of a lot of the older boys that were part of that culture of leadership for the young-uns.
Takes awhile for that leadership culture to grow again, but you need to have success to be able to have confidence to do it as well as the newbies looking up to a successful footballer.
In Carlton's case, it is a real CATCH 22 >:(
I still think that was Pagans biggest mistake. (actually he'd probably say coming there in the first place was his biggest mistake ;) :D)
There were several of our star players who probably could have gone around for another one or two years.
They might have ended up having less than glorious years, but I suspect they could still have contributed.
More importantly there would have been that gradual generational change and guidance for the younger group.
They would certainly have been at least the equal to a number of the players Pagan bought in.
Go back to the Pagan days where he stripped the club of a lot of the older boys that were part of that culture of leadership for the young-uns.
Takes awhile for that leadership culture to grow again, but you need to have success to be able to have confidence to do it as well as the newbies looking up to a successful footballer.
In Carlton's case, it is a real CATCH 22 >:(
I still think that was Pagans biggest mistake. (actually he'd probably say coming there in the first place was his biggest mistake ;) :D)
There were several of our star players who probably could have gone around for another one or two years.
They might have ended up having less than glorious years, but I suspect they could still have contributed.
More importantly there would have been that gradual generational change and guidance for the younger group.
They would certainly have been at least the equal to a number of the players Pagan bought in.
Yup and the club had zero governance and no idea so they just went along with whatever until they completely freaked out and put in blanket rules. Hopefully the same scenario doesn't play out here. Malthouse doesn't seem as fixed as The Penguin though