Not on free to air TV, we play on Saturday night against the Weagles. I can't say I like that, as we've travelled poorly for some years now.
If we can't beat a 1/3rd Eagles team, regardless of where it's played, some serious questions will be asked of this club.
Mark this down as another loss.
We'll win this one, as they are crap, but its more about them than us.
Dow and Fogarty in. Move Silvagni down back, play TDK forward, drop Ed Curnow, O'Brien and Honey and play Durds or Motlop as the emergency. This is the match to change things up.
Start dropping players Vossy.
Start dropping players Vossy.
Think we saw with Cincotta that players who perform in the twos and get rewarded will take their opportunities and we could try what is a radical approach for a Carlton MC a bit more often.
Think we saw with Cincotta that players who perform in the twos and get rewarded will take their opportunities and we could try what is a radical approach for a Carlton MC a bit more often.
Amen.
Embarrassing if we lose. Which is possible if we go into the game expecting to win. This is one of those games that if you don’t win by a big margin, you are still being exposed as not a genuine quality side. Especially if your recent win/lose ratio is showing poor form. I am not confident this should be an easy win.
Headline!
"West Coast find form against an inaccurate lack luster Carlton!"
What about swapping TDK for Harry in the fwd line?
SOS stays in the fwd line instead of rucking and TDK helps in the ruck.
Harry has a rest and goes back to Auskick to learn how to kick for a couple of weeks.
Need a win this week (although I dont think we are certs) as we aren't winning any of the 6 games after it.
WC at home are paying $4.50.
That’s way overs imo. We should win but are way too short a favourite.
I watched them against Port.
They were outclassed and outscored but they came with effort.
Just when it looked like the floodgates were about to open they halted the rot and basically evened up the contest.
They're back at home, we struggle with a team that has attitude and effort, and while we should win, don't take it for granted.
Let's play which vital player will be unavailable for this week bingo
It's about Crippa's turn this time.🙄
It's about Crippa's turn this time.🙄
I'll go Mitch McGovern or Jeremy not playing on the basis two Mckays cant be on the field at anyone time so you cant have two McGoverns either...😉
Let's play which vital player will be unavailable for this week bingo
Cunningham, Marchbank, Williams, McGovern, Cottrell, Martin, Owies, Saad, Docherty, Boyd, Philp, McKay, Hewett, Kennedy
Let's play which vital player will be unavailable for this week bingo
That's funny. I was thinking the same. Who goes to the sick bay after medical results are in?
Who will be a late out?
The worst part of our injury issue is you can't be confident they'll return in decent nick. I watched Dogs Weightman return from injury. It's worlds apart from the condition say George returned in. Go figure.
As for those injured players who are reinjured while they're in rehabilitation. It's a whole new level of bad luck / mismanagement 😮💨
Looking at that injured list, we really play with a list about 4-6 short c.f. other clubs. Time to prune the dead wood Mark
At least the latest injury list suggests we might get back all of our injured players in the next 2 weeks (other than those who are out for the year). Some light at the end of the tunnel, fingers crossed.
At least the latest injury list suggests we might get back all of our injured players in the next 2 weeks (other than those who are out for the year). Some light at the end of the tunnel, fingers crossed.
Good that we will get some back in the next few weeks, some probably dont count as they'll just get injured again. In any case, our injuries pail into insignificance compared to WC's.
Given how many WA boys we have, I hope they go there switched on ready to do the business and not think its some junket to go home to party with family.
At least the latest injury list suggests we might get back all of our injured players in the next 2 weeks (other than those who are out for the year). Some light at the end of the tunnel, fingers crossed.
Our problem seems to be that we get a few in and seem to lose a few at the same time though. Lets hope that worm is finally turning.
If I were given a “Captain’s Call” at the selection table, I’d use it to select Jordan Boyd. His strong suit is his kicking and we desperately need to get as many good kicks into the team as possible. Not that I’m confident he’s elite in that area. He had a quiet start to his career as a small defender last year after playing as a small forward at Footscray VFL and Spottie. But then he started to spear some long passes that seemed to confirm that he was indeed a good kick. And then he played the last of his 7 games in Rd 15 due to injury.
Bring him in to get another look at him. He is versatile as he has played footy at both ends on the ground and his kicking would be welcome whether coming out of defence or spotting up targets inside F50.
If I were given a “Captain’s Call” at the selection table, I’d use it to select Jordan Boyd. His strong suit is his kicking and we desperately need to get as many good kicks into the team as possible.
As a what-if perhaps, based on VFL form it's hard to select him at the moment.
And I do worry that such an MC selection would just put more focus on our monolithic targets and isn't really the multiple avenue to goal we desire or need!
The only bloke putting his hand up on a consistent basis has been Fogarty, with perhaps some cameos by Cincotta and Kemp, otherwise the cupboard is bare on the form line! ( Yes I know, I've not included Dow, and to me this is such a tragedy! )
VFL form? He returned from injury last weekend and had 21 disposals, 4 marks and 3 tackles as a defender. Not bad.
The Carlton match report said, “Jordan Boyd had a successful return back from injury, collecting 21 disposals and having an impact in both areas of the field.” He was also named in the best, albeit the last named.
VFL form? He returned from injury last weekend and had 21 disposals, 4 marks and 3 tackles as a defender. Not bad.
The stats are meaningless, I watched the full game and his DE would have been extremely low, if he managed to achieve 50% DE it must have been a spurt of energy while I was having a dump! Very unimpressive is the adjective that comes to mind.
At VFL these fulltime professional AFL players should be shooting the eyes out of crows in flight!
They are not Joe Blogs returning off a hammy after two weeks in the pub, they have been in fulltime managed recovery and performance training, they should be head and shoulders above VFL part-time counterparts.
We need to get games into him before Docherty returns (given Saad is likely back this week). This is the perfect match to do it before we embark on 6 tough matches. He’s played a full game in the VFL, so he’s physically ready.
By the way, did you like the effort in the highlights package where he kicked an excellent 50m pass from the wing to Lefroy on the 50m arc on the fat side nicely in between 2 opponents, allowing him to mark and handball to Ronke for a goal? If only we had that sort of daring in the seniors …
Whilst I don't think it's right to label any of the other 17 teams as hopeless, easy beats etc., I think if the MC is wanting to try a few risky / experimental selections, the WC game is probably the best chance to do it IMO.
The stats are meaningless, I watched the full game and his DE would have been extremely low, if he managed to achieve 50% DE it must have been a spurt of energy while I was having a dump! Very unimpressive is the adjective that comes to mind.
At VFL these fulltime professional AFL players should be shooting the eyes out of crows in flight!
They are not Joe Blogs returning off a hammy after two weeks in the pub, they have been in fulltime managed recovery and performance training, they should be head and shoulders above VFL part-time counterparts.
Whoa there, Spotted One... did Boyd steal your play lunch ;) I also watched the entire game and for a bloke who hasn't played any game for months his contribution was very good, and as he gained touch, his disposals by foot were deft (as noted by Wingman MAV). Even without factoring in his first game in yonks, his contribution was solid and heartening, not to mention he's exactly what we need coming off half back - leg speed and a penetrating/accurate kick.
We've had 2 shockers in a row. Does the MC hope the current team pull their fingers out or make a statement and reward some consistent VFL form?
Motlop is the one definite out but our small forwards have been off. Honey surely can't make the 23 again this week even with Motlop going out? He's had two very ordinary games. I'd be inclined to go with Durdin, Fisher and Fogarty. Hewett got a few possessions last week but wasn't really anywhere near his best...maybe this is the week where Dow gets a crack on the bigger Optus oval against a notably weakened Eagles midfield.
Does TDK come back in and play a bit forward to test the Eagles defence? Eagles only been playing one ruckman with support from Waterman so we can probably back JSOS to ruck okay against him.
It's the midfield that needs to get cracking. We dominated possessions last week but their impact was negligible and none of them have been hitting the scoreboard. When they're not kicking goals and neither are the small forwards, it's little wonder it's left to Charlie and Harry....and when Harry has a stinker in front of goals like last week, we can't expect Charlie to kick a bag every week and get us over the line.
Maybe this IS the week to mix it up a bit?
Just looked at the WC injury list and we shouldnt complain...they have been decimated and must be struggling to field a team.
This should be a 7 goal plus win this week for us given what they have to pick from.....
EB, they were close to pulling their WAFL side out last week....the fact that Will Schofield pulled the boots on 4 years after playing a game shows you how bad it is. Their WAFL side copped a 169 point belting the weekend before that.
If we're fair dinkum, it should be a minimum 10 goal thrashing this week. Unfortunately it's the games we're always expected to win that are the worry. You'll know inside 10 minutes into the first quarter if we're on or not...most weeks you can pick it.
EB, they were close to pulling their WAFL side out last week....the fact that Will Schofield pulled the boots on 4 years after playing a game shows you how bad it is. Their WAFL side copped a 169 point belting the weekend before that.
If we're fair dinkum, it should be a minimum 10 goal thrashing this week. Unfortunately it's the games we're always expected to win that are the worry. You'll know inside 10 minutes into the first quarter if we're on or not...most weeks you can pick it.
Agree Surfie....thats bad for the comp and I notice they have a lot of real long term injuries too.
Simpson will be doing well just to keep them competitive and we should give them a royal flogging this week.
Saad and Doc in
Kennedy out
No TDK🍺🍺🍺
Saad and Doc in
Kennedy out
No TDK🍺🍺🍺
Kennedy out? WTF
Kennedy out? WTF
they said ommitted🤷🏻♂️
Kennedy out? WTF
Sacrifice for the non-performers.
Good to see Kemp getting a game. Good luck.
Good to see Kemp getting a game. Good luck.
Likewise he has so much to offer and such a good talent.
And Lewis Young's 50th game. Well played young man.
Sacrifice for the non-performers.
Saad and Doc in
Kennedy out
No TDK🍺🍺🍺
Kemp in as well with Cowan being managed.
Dow and Fogarty must be thinking its over for them now, you would have thought vs a a very weak team like WC that Paddy could have got a run this week just to see where he is at in regards senior footy.
Not sure how Docherty made such a swift recovery. I really hope it's legit, and the club isn't rushing him back. I can't believe they would feel the need to rush him back against West Coast of all teams, with all his past injury woes - would they ?
Saad and Doc in
Kennedy out
No TDK🍺🍺🍺
Great to see Doc return, Kempy getting a gig and Saady back.
But... WTF re Chugga getting the flick! Play him out of position so what do you expect! Kennedy taking Honey's place makes much more sense. Hopefully Fog is the emergency.
Fark. Probably our best team for the year. Fair enough resting Cowan. Kennedy gets the A, TDK plays reserves.
Owies the only one I rate that's still out.
Noticed 17 pages in the Post Game thread. If we don't win on Sat arvo there will be 117 pages !!!
O0 O0 O0
Sacrifice for the non-performers.
So how would you explain Honey still getting a run? Team balance perhaps?
VERY happy with the selections this week......i'm assuming that Kennedy plays as the sub. If we play TDK as sub we haven't learned anything.
Cowan was due for a rest, i said as much a few days ago. You 'could' play him as the sub, but i think you'd be better off using Kennedy who can play midfield or forward if required.
Send TDK back to the 2's and let him dominate there. Hopefully get some confidence back and remind him what he should be doing at AFL level.
Kemp in is a week too late. He'll be playing McGoverns role.
McGovern will be playing Youngs role.
Young on the bench has me worried that something isn't quite right there. Although i think he is being transitioned into our 2nd ruck. Who, unlike TDK, can realistically hold down another position on the ground outside of the ruck.
Honey is the only one i'd question. Give him another week, the big ground might help him. But, he should be on notice.
Ed Curnow was the invisible man last week before being subbed. He'd wanna make that a one-off otherwise he might be playing 2's as well.
I'm sure Kennedy is sub. Unfortunately you have to be omitted. Hardwick complained about it the other week.
Our subs are getting stronger at least.
Young is very flexible he can also take a strong grab in the forward line.
I'm sure Kennedy is sub. Unfortunately you have to be omitted. Hardwick complained about it the other week.
I reckon Saad might not get up and could be a last minute out.
Fark. Probably our best team for the year. Fair enough resting Cowan. Kennedy gets the A, TDK plays reserves.
Owies the only one I rate that's still out.
Noticed 17 pages in the Post Game thread. If we don't win on Sat arvo there will be 117 pages !!!
O0 O0 O0
I thought Dutchy needed a rest ahead of Moo. TDK is "...not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"🍺🍺
I guess Honey is being given his opportunity, but, by God, he hasn't taken it so far! Very disappointed with his output and effort. I want to see him sweat!
Fisher - yes, he played well in the first half, but it is 2 weeks in a row that he has delivered nothing in the second half. Again, I really want to see some effort.
Corey Durdin needs to do more too. I', willing to give him a break coming back from injuries, but he's had enough time. Time to deliver.
I'd take Tom de Koning as the sub: I hate depending on 1 ruckman. It is, militarily, a point source weakness. And we need to get some form into him. I'd like to have the ability of playing him in the VFL, but if anything happens to Pitto, then there is nobody else.
I have no idea how Lemmey or Mirkov are going. Both missed last week. O'Keefe tried his guts out, but we got killed in the ruck.
I reckon Saad might not get up and could be a last minute out.
Given the travel, It'll be tricky managing late changes and we have some returning from injury 😬
Kennedy has already been named sub tomorrow. Doesn't like having to omit the player to be sub. Wants that changed.
Re: Voss on the CFC website
Kennedy has already been named sub tomorrow. Doesn't like having to omit the player to be sub. Wants that changed.
Re: Voss on the CFC website
Hardwick said the same thing about Cotchin the other week.
Kennedy has already been named sub tomorrow. Doesn't like having to omit the player to be sub. Wants that changed.
Re: Voss on the CFC website
Perfect.
If we do have basically a fit bunch of midfielders, i'd like to see us use the sub in this fashion throughout the year.
Rotate which mids get a rest. Could be Hewitt next week. Cerra the following week. Ed Curnow if he is still playing gets a week as a sub. They get a bit of a freshen up and make an impact when they come on.
I think we should use Kennedy a lot more up forward than we do, everyone talks about Cripps resting down there etc but Kennedy can actually kick straight, take a mark and has some forward craft.
When he returned to the team after being ignored for a while a few seasons back he was real good value forward before getting injured again. I think he is in our best 22 and a under rated component of the team and I would have dropped Ed Curnow this week who had a real average game and this is after we had Kennedy play down back and out of position.
So let me get this right..
Out
Motlop (susp), TDK (dropped), Moo (managed)
In
Saad (injury ret), Doc, (injury ret), Kemp (2's form)
Sub (from last wk 22)
MK
Is that it?
So let me get this right..
Out
Motlop (susp), TDK (dropped), Moo (managed)
In
Saad (injury ret), Doc, (injury ret), Kemp (2's form)
Sub (from last wk 22)
MK
Is that it?
Not quite.
De Koning was "managed" the week before and wasn't in the 22. Cowan is "managed" this week. O'Brien was the sub and he has been omitted and Motlop is out suspended. Kennedy is also omitted but he is going to be the sub. Therefore:
Outs: Cowan (managed), Motlop (suspended), Kennedy (omitted), O'Brien (omitted sub)
Ins: Docherty, Saad, Kemp ... and Kennedy will be the sub.
I suspect that a couple of players won't be in their normal roles.
Not quite.
De Koning was "managed" the week before and wasn't in the 22. Cowan is "managed" this week. O'Brien was the sub and he has been omitted and Motlop is out suspended. Kennedy is also omitted but he is going to be the sub. Therefore:
Outs: Cowan (managed), Motlop (suspended), Kennedy (omitted), O'Brien (omitted sub)
Ins: Docherty, Saad, Kemp ... and Kennedy will be the sub.
I suspect that a couple of players won't be in their normal roles.
...and I'm glad Dimma and Vossy spoke up about the whole sub mystery rubbish.
The one thing I hope for more than anything with this game is that Vossy is much more his true self... less of matey/nice with the players and more his ruthless hard edge that delivered him leadership and Brownlows. No compromise. Get that fierceness and boldness back into our game.
The one thing I hope for more than anything with this game is that Vossy is much more his true self... less of matey/nice with the players and more his ruthless hard edge that delivered him leadership and Brownlows. No compromise. Get that fierceness and boldness back into our game.
Thats a balancing act, the key is making the players want to run through brick walls for you. To be a good coach, you need to:
- be an excellent communicator, clear and concise no matter if its going good or bad.
- have relationships with every player on the list.
- be a strong tactician during the week and one game day.
- be an excellent motivator.
I think we should use Kennedy a lot more up forward than we do, everyone talks about Cripps resting down there etc but Kennedy can actually kick straight, take a mark and has some forward craft.
When he returned to the team after being ignored for a while a few seasons back he was real good value forward before getting injured again. I think he is in our best 22 and a under rated component of the team and I would have dropped Ed Curnow this week who had a real average game and this is after we had Kennedy play down back and out of position.
Yep. I've been pushing that Kennedy/Forward barrow for a while. He was a FF growing up. Can take a solid grab and is an accurate kick. Whats not to like? As far as i can see the only problem is we could end up being too 'tall/slow' and our mids can't hit a player on the lead.
Yep. I've been pushing that Kennedy/Forward barrow for a while. He was a FF growing up. Can take a solid grab and is an accurate kick. Whats not to like? As far as i can see the only problem is we could end up being too 'tall/slow' and our mids can't hit a player on the lead.
Agree on the too tall angle and it's horses for courses and he would be replacing one of our taller forwards as an option . Jack could have a rest and MK in his spot and I'd look at a smaller forward line for a different more mobile look at times and take Harry or Charlie off as well if they were not giving us much.
One tall, Kennedy and the smalls might make us less predictable and might stop our mids bombing the ball...I say might.
Agree on the too tall angle and it's horses for courses and he would be replacing one of our taller forwards as an option . Jack could have a rest and MK in his spot and I'd look at a smaller forward line for a different more mobile look at times and take Harry or Charlie off as well if they were not giving us much.
One tall, Kennedy and the smalls might make us less predictable and might stop our mids bombing the ball...I say might.
Not to harp on about it too much, but its yet another reason why i think TDK in the side hurts more than helps. It limits the moves we can make because we have to 'hide' him.
Its one thing i like about Jack going into the ruck when Pittonet needs a rest. It makes us smaller and allows for Cripps/Kennedy to get some forward time.
It appears the club is starting to use Young as the 2nd ruck, with McKay taking it deep forward. Adding in Kemp to cover for Young down back. It doesn't really bode well Kennedy forward as we have 3 talls anchored there already.
Its one thing i like about Jack going into the ruck when Pittonet needs a rest.
SoJ is worthless in the ruck because we lose momentum massively and during that period our opposition get a free ride gaining momentum while expending very little energy. SoJ in the ruck just builds opposition confidence, and when Pitto comes back on, the opposition are standing a foot taller and are up and running.
You win the ruck by putting your foot on the oppositions throat and never ever ever easing the pressure off, not by giving them a smoko once or twice a quarter. The last thing any team needs are opposition big blokes who are full of confidence!
Young can play ruck when McGovern is in but that is usually only for about half the season.
Young can play ruck when McGovern is in but that is usually only for about half the season.
This is the heart of our problem, it's not that the blokes we have aren't good enough, the problem is that they aren't there consistently enough!
Some of this comes down to team tactics and philosophy, we use our rucks like blunt instruments, the exact opposite of how the Handbaggers use their rucks.
Our game tactics better suit a Nankervis type, but the problem is that type of ruck is typically always getting injuries, so you need two or three of them on the list. Only having one won't do you any good unless the have a freakish injury free season!
Sure play one ruck, we know where that got us in the last few games of 2022. Some teams can get away with it, I dont believe we can.
Playing Young in the ruck is a big ask. He normally spends the entire game on the ground and adding to his workload could affect his defensive work.
Young is more than capable as a ruckman and Jack did OK covering for him in defence. Kemp is another who can cover for him in defence but I have a feeling that Kemp could spend time in the forward line.
It will be interesting to see how the magnets are arranged and how they might get moved around.
Kennedy as sub is much better than O’Brien. Chugga can fill most roles in the event of an injury and he does have the ability to make an impact, particularly if he can exploit a tired opponent.
Good luck to Young on his 50th and Kemp for earning a call up.
We start this game outside the 8, sliding by the hour.
If we don't win this convincingly, my optimism will be shot. We'll also find ourselves in the oh so familiar 11th position.
Last year we won by 63. That's the benchmark IMO.
Go Blues
Not to harp on about it too much, but its yet another reason why i think TDK in the side hurts more than helps. It limits the moves we can make because we have to 'hide' him.
Its one thing i like about Jack going into the ruck when Pittonet needs a rest. It makes us smaller and allows for Cripps/Kennedy to get some forward time.
It appears the club is starting to use Young as the 2nd ruck, with McKay taking it deep forward. Adding in Kemp to cover for Young down back. It doesn't really bode well Kennedy forward as we have 3 talls anchored there already.
Agree ....Jack going into the ruck is a time you can use Kennedy forward for sure, Im all for Young and Harry expanding their duties and doing a bit of ruck work...not over doing it but just every now and then when we have injuries or need a lift.
Every team needs a few allrounders that can provide cover when called upon and Young in particular is capable of more than one role and we need to be more daring and try different things.
SoJ is worthless in the ruck because we lose momentum massively and during that period our opposition get a free ride gaining momentum while expending very little energy. SoJ in the ruck just builds opposition confidence, and when Pitto comes back on, the opposition are standing a foot taller and are up and running.
You win the ruck by putting your foot on the oppositions throat and never ever ever easing the pressure off, not by giving them a smoko once or twice a quarter. The last thing any team needs are opposition big blokes who are full of confidence!
This seems to be a popular opinion, but the numbers don't back that up.
Yes, our momentum might suffer compared to when Pittonet is in, but not compared to when TDK is in.
SOJ vs TDK in the ruck yields the same result.
TDK gets more hitouts, but also loses more hitouts to advantage.
Jack gets less, but concedes less.
Jack also get more clearances when the ball hits the deck.
So ultimately, TDK might get you more clearances via a hitout to advantage, but Jack gets you more clearances from himself once the ball hits the deck.
This seems to be a popular opinion, but the numbers don't back that up.
Yes, our momentum might suffer compared to when Pittonet is in, but not compared to when TDK is in.
SOJ vs TDK in the ruck yields the same result.
TDK gets more hitouts, but also loses more hitouts to advantage.
Jack gets less, but concedes less.
Jack also get more clearances when the ball hits the deck.
So ultimately, TDK might get you more clearances via a hitout to advantage, but Jack gets you more clearances from himself once the ball hits the deck.
I keep telling you that there is a statistical bias with Jack's ruck work. It's weighted to his early work and lately he's been getting beaten quite badly. We've been running that trick for 60 odd games now. He once tagged fyfe out of a game but if we set him a tagging role every week opponents will start to exploit it.
These things aren't static. What worked 2 years ago won't be the same today. Jsos as a ruck is an experiment that's finished and even our mc can see it which is why young has started chopping out pitto lately.