Carlton Supporters Club

Around The Grounds => The Sports Desk => Topic started by: flyboy77 on March 25, 2019, 10:59:33 pm

Title: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: flyboy77 on March 25, 2019, 10:59:33 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUtO3Hir5W0

At 1.00.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: Thryleon on March 25, 2019, 11:24:50 pm
Smart.

Keeps everyone guessing.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: flyboy77 on March 26, 2019, 12:23:34 am
Smart.

Keeps everyone guessing.

too right.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 26, 2019, 07:10:56 am
He's neither magician nor idiot. Just a frustrating bloke who seems destined to waste his talent. He's having something of a purple patch now, but that won't last long. That dinky underarm serve proves nothing.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 26, 2019, 07:45:10 am
If his efforts are wilful doesn't that make him a liar as well as a cheat, the Donald Trump of tennis?

I'm not sure we need another like that, but Kyrgios if nothing else is wasteful because he has all the talent needed to be a superstar!
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: DJC on March 26, 2019, 08:21:01 am
Smart.

Keeps everyone guessing.

Yes, a legitimate and effective tactic when the receiver is standing metres behind the baseline.  He doesn’t need to use it often to have opponents thinking about it when they stand back to take the sting out of his normal serves.

I also think that going for some unusual shots may help Nick to keep his focus and intensity.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: sandsmere on March 26, 2019, 08:39:18 am
Smart.

Keeps everyone guessing.

No.

If he was smart he'd be No.1

He has the ability but the brain lets him down.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 26, 2019, 10:10:30 am
No.

If he was smart he'd be No.1

He has the ability but the brain lets him down.

Yes, and the other bent on the under-arm serve tactic is "a55hol3 with a touch of laziness!"

If it's smart Trevor Chappell must be a genius!
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: madbluboy on March 26, 2019, 11:18:07 am
It's not smart but it takes skill to disguise and execute.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 27, 2019, 09:23:51 am
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/miami-vice-best-and-worst-on-offer-as-kyrgios-crashes-out-in-florida-20190327-p517wb.html
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: Baggers on March 27, 2019, 01:16:09 pm
Talented c0ckhead.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: madbluboy on March 27, 2019, 01:19:49 pm
https://wwos.nine.com.au/tennis/nick-kyrgios-slams-media-double-standard-after-novak-djokovic-defeat/3889d090-dad0-4cc2-b037-acb9950873a9
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: DJC on March 27, 2019, 09:51:34 pm
Kyrgios has a point about double standards.  To a certain extent he has made a rod for his own back, but he does have a point.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 27, 2019, 10:19:22 pm
Kyrgios has a long record of flaky, erratic form, and the media's comments were fair enough. Kohlschreiber may be having something of a purple patch, but he has played Djokovic 10 times, with Novak holding an 8-2 record. Maybe Kohlschreiber played out of his skin, or maybe Novak had an off day. Either way, the comparison between Kyrgios and Djokovic could hardly be more stark.

The fact that Kyrgios is even discussing this is part of the problem. Far too easily distracted by fluff.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: flyboy77 on March 27, 2019, 10:28:56 pm
The German, on his day, is a truly exceptional ball striker....
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: Micky0 on March 28, 2019, 08:39:08 am
I like Nick and if he could just tone down some of what he does, he could be No. 1 and still not be a tennis robot.

I am not a fan of Federer and co, I think they all come out of the same BLAND factory.  But I don't like to see whinging and that negative behaviour out of Kyrgios, however his banter with that idiot in the crowd the other week that got the guy walked out, really amuses me.  He just needs a bit more class and he'd be loved, people love a bit of show and dazzle, but he takes it a bit far at times.  He just lets himself down at times, I hope he can pull it together.

I would much rather go watch a game he's involved in than Federer/Djokic/Nadal combined!  Yawn.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 28, 2019, 08:53:01 am
I like Nick and if he could just tone down some of what he does, he could be No. 1 and still not be a tennis robot.

I am not a fan of Federer and co, I think they all come out of the same BLAND factory.  But I don't like to see whinging and that negative behaviour out of Kyrgios, however his banter with that idiot in the crowd the other week that got the guy walked out, really amuses me.  He just needs a bit more class and he'd be loved, people love a bit of show and dazzle, but he takes it a bit far at times.  He just lets himself down at times, I hope he can pull it together.

I would much rather go watch a game he's involved in than Federer/Djokic/Nadal combined!  Yawn.

Human history is filled with sportspeople who fail to reach their potential. Kyrgios is talented enough to win a slam and be a regular fixture in the top 10. But in my view, it will never happen.

My view is very different to yours. I find him irritating rather than entertaining, and his regular acts of self sabotage are embarrassing to watch.

I'm a Nadal fan, and IMO Federer and Novak are at the opposite end of boring. Federer is brilliant to watch, and Novak's best tennis is, IMO, the best tennis that has ever been played.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: Thryleon on March 28, 2019, 09:21:33 am
We've been asking for players with personality for years, and just because we dislike someones we straight away condemn them.

Isn't that hypocritical??

Marat Safin was no different.  Pulled it together for a year and a half.  Became ranked 1 and won a few slams.  Then proceeded to tour with his entourage and tennis took more of a back seat.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: madbluboy on March 28, 2019, 09:28:45 am
Jim Courier summed Kygrios up.

Very talented player who doesn't have the fitness or stamina to get through a second week of a grand slam tournament. (where matches are 5 sets)

Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 28, 2019, 10:24:13 am
Jim Courier summed Kygrios up.

Very talented player who doesn't have the fitness or stamina to get through a second week of a grand slam tournament. (where matches are 5 sets)

I agree, and I suspect all the carry on is just deflecting the media from discussing the truth that Kyrgios doesn't work hard enough to be a top liner. He wants it as much as anybody, but he won't do the work equal of the others. If anyone suggests this he admonishes them for claiming that he doesn't work hard, but that is not the same thing as working hard enough. I'm sure he works hard compared to Joe Average, but he isn't being measured against Joe Average! I was fortunate to have a discussion with the two Todd's one day, and Woodbridge mentioned much the same with a few players at the top end. He said most had the necessary desire but few had the capacity.

So I suspect when Kyrgios is bettered he starts looking for excuses, because he is just doesn't have the physical capacity to match his desire.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 28, 2019, 10:37:03 am
Jim Courier summed Kygrios up.

Very talented player who doesn't have the fitness or stamina to get through a second week of a grand slam tournament. (where matches are 5 sets)

If by stamina he includes mental stamina, then yes I agree.



We've been asking for players with personality for years, and just because we dislike someones we straight away condemn them.

Isn't that hypocritical??

Marat Safin was no different.  Pulled it together for a year and a half.  Became ranked 1 and won a few slams.  Then proceeded to tour with his entourage and tennis took more of a back seat.

Who's been asking for players with more "personality" ? I haven't.

We must be in some kind of cultural crisis if racquet smashing, spectator abusing, umpire abusing, venting on twitter, possible tanking, and general mental flakiness are now considered to be signs of someone with a "personality."

Sorry, it's weak, and I don't buy it.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 28, 2019, 10:41:44 am
Who's been asking for players with more "personality" ? I haven't.

Maybe people who don't really like tennis as a sport want the grunters and grumpers!

I've gone off tennis over the years, as prize money grows more and more questionable tactics come to the fore, it's not sport as I know it but more psychological warfare. The worst experiences for me come when someone like a Kyrgios or Williams chucks a wobbly because they are being bettered on the court, without wanting to be sexist they need to take it like a man and stop crying like a bitch! It's a Grand Slam not MAFS!

Personally, I'd prefer they clone Federa so we can go and watch Fed vs Fed.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: cookie2 on March 28, 2019, 12:50:00 pm
Maybe people who don't really like tennis as a sport want the grunters and grumpers!

I've gone off tennis over the years, as prize money grows more and more questionable tactics come to the fore, it's not sport as I know it but more psychological warfare. The worst experiences for me come when someone like a Kyrgios or Williams chucks a wobbly because they are being bettered on the court, without wanting to be sexist they need to take it like a man and stop crying like a bitch! It's a Grand Slam not MAFS!

Personally, I'd prefer they clone Federa so we can go and watch Fed vs Fed.

I used to love tennis years ago but over the years I too have completely lost interest and find it quite tiresome now. Some of the players/personalities are so far up themselves only their shoelaces are visible.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: madbluboy on March 28, 2019, 01:32:42 pm
If by stamina he includes mental stamina, then yes I agree.



Who's been asking for players with more "personality" ? I haven't.

We must be in some kind of cultural crisis if racquet smashing, spectator abusing, umpire abusing, venting on twitter, possible tanking, and general mental flakiness are now considered to be signs of someone with a "personality."

Sorry, it's weak, and I don't buy it.

No Jim was talking about his physical conditioning.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 28, 2019, 01:36:27 pm
No Jim was talking about his physical conditioning.

I'm sure that was what Woodbridge was referring to, the ability to go to another physical level, or the mental strength to put the pain away and continue.

Kyrgios looks unable to let the things that bother him go, I can only assume it's driven by fatigue and I appreciate it may not be, but he actually he looks to be taken over by those issues and the verbal barrage is cloaking cause or making an excuse.

As an Australian all I want him to do is to achieve success at the level his potential suggests without all the drama. Some people excuse his behaviour as self-motivation, like it's what he needs to push himself further, I think it is just preparing an excuse for failure and wastes energy. I have had team-mates like this, and all they do is bring the team ethic undone by blaming somebody else or having an excuse.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 28, 2019, 01:39:35 pm
No Jim was talking about his physical conditioning.

Well, if so, then I think he's missed a big part of the problem.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: madbluboy on March 28, 2019, 01:43:47 pm
I was a pretty good tennis player as a junior and I'll give you a hot tip.

Most of the really good players were crazy. ;D
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 28, 2019, 01:46:19 pm
I played was a pretty good tennis player as a junior and I'll give you a hot tip.

Most of the really good players were crazy. ;D

I've been at a high level in several sports, and all the very best people were monolithic in their focus. They weren't playing for the money, Instagram, Trout Pouts or Influence. They just had a focus that could be describe as unhealthy and perhaps as you suggest even crazy, like a dog addicted to licking it's own arse! They were the antitheses of someone like Bernard Tomic, because the best of the best would still be doing it even if they had to pay good money to be there! Do you get that feeling from Kyrgios, because I get it from Federer?
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 28, 2019, 01:50:36 pm
I played was a pretty good tennis player as a junior and I'll give you a hot tip.

Most of the really good players were crazy. ;D

Let me put it another way. If what JC says is true, then Nick would tend to misbehave only in slams, no ? Instead, he seems to misbehave in 3 set and 5 set matches, usually when the heat is on and things don't go his way, and not always in the 2nd week or later stages of the tournament. Is that a fair conclusion ? Tell me if it isn't.

I have nothing against him, and I would love to see him succeed and be proven wrong. I don't want to see any young person squandering their talents. But I'm not feeling it, and I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 28, 2019, 01:53:33 pm
I'm not sure Courier meant it as the only cause/problem, it seems fair to suggest Kyrgios has more than one issue.

Given we must concede experience to Courier, perhaps he thinks many of those other issues would fade if Kyrgios fixed that one thing!
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: Thryleon on March 28, 2019, 03:36:59 pm
If by stamina he includes mental stamina, then yes I agree.



Who's been asking for players with more "personality" ? I haven't.

We must be in some kind of cultural crisis if racquet smashing, spectator abusing, umpire abusing, venting on twitter, possible tanking, and general mental flakiness are now considered to be signs of someone with a "personality."

Sorry, it's weak, and I don't buy it.

People are people.

Some people are proffesionals, others are a bunch of smart alecs.  Some of them are both.

Just because he's "not your type" doesnt mean he should be condemned.

He is just a bloke playing tennis.
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: LP on March 28, 2019, 04:05:23 pm
People are people.

Some people are proffesionals, others are a bunch of smart alecs.  Some of them are both.

Just because he's "not your type" doesnt mean he should be condemned.

He is just a bloke playing tennis.

Surely he's not above criticism, just as he criticizes officials and opponents shouldn't he be prepared to accept it in return?
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: PaulP on March 28, 2019, 04:20:39 pm
People are people.

Some people are proffesionals, others are a bunch of smart alecs.  Some of them are both.

Just because he's "not your type" doesnt mean he should be condemned.

He is just a bloke playing tennis.

?
Title: Re: Kyrgios - magician or idiot?
Post by: Thryleon on March 28, 2019, 04:56:20 pm
Surely he's not above criticism, just as he criticizes officials and opponents shouldn't he be prepared to accept it in return?

Not saying that at all LP.

Bloke is a Tennis brat.

Does deserve the adulation that many receive, but he is largely harmless these days and does a bit of work with charity.