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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 392718 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2040 –
Quote from: Mav on
Let’s crunch the numbers.

With a population of 25,670,300, Australia has had 897 deaths. With a population of 328.2 million, the US has had 214,000 deaths. Per 100,000 people, the death rate is 3.5 in Aus & 65.2 in the USA. The US death rate is over 18 times Australia’s.

Feel free to post your own calculations. I took the first stats that appeared in the google searches, so better stats might be out there.

Did they lock 20% of the country in isolation for 6 months to achieve that?

As a percentage of total population how do our stats look? 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

On this ranking our case fatality rate is actually higher.

Did we just end up with more vulnerable infected or how does this stat work?

FYI even with the numbers you counted as a proportion of population the number of dead still comes to under 1% in both nations cases.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2041 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Coincidentally, the only thing I know about Robert Reich is a 10 minute YT clip by Richard Wolff, which I only watched this morning. Filtered through Wolff's eyes, he sounds like an advocate for the Nordic Model, i.e capitalism with lots of regulation and government intervention. Basically a belief that capitalism can be fixed and made to work.

...only with strict govt regulations, as you mentioned.

I see what Reich is on about as an achievable first step and one reasonably palatable to the community at large. He was a senior minister and friend of the Clintons, until he realised that they'd stiffed him and were deep down inside, as you point out, just more of the same. He resigned disillusioned and started campaigning on his own. His Netflix doco, Saving Capitalism (not really) is terrific and enlightening viewing.

Starting with something like he advocates would point us in the right direction, but, ultimately, your mate Chris Hedges is absolutely right and where we need to be if we're to survive as a species. I'm not optimistic.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2042 –
Imagine if we had 300 million people here and 50 states?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2043 –
The numbers give you the answer: we’d have 200,000 fewer deaths than the US!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2044 –
Do a Google search for "Trump's handling of covid". Say what you like about other aspects of his presidency, but it makes for pretty dismal reading.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2046 –
US numbers don't look good anyway you look at it
But there are so many variables that play into this including State structures and responsibilities, population density and movement that comparisons are difficult.
There is a wide variation in state numbers.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Contrast Alaska and Hawaii which can be locked down and separated much more easily than say New York.
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2047 –
@ Lods

From what I understand there are many anomalies and inconsisties in the way data is collected and stats put together so reported numbers should be treated with caution.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2048 –
Condemnation of Trump's handling of covid is widespread, bordering on universal. There are no guarantees in anything - even if his handling of it was beyond reproach, the numbers may still have been the same. But that's no excuse for the way he conducted himself : reckless and negligent.

Whatever good things he has achieved are completely swamped by a whole lot of negatives. He will undoubtedly go down as the worst president in US history, and with good reason.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2049 –
If we are to learn anything about how best to manage this virus we should be basing that learning on accurate data and information.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2050 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
@ Lods

From what I understand there are many anomalies and inconsisties in the way data is collected and stats put together so reported numbers should be treated with caution.

Yep
We've got a wide variation in how the pandemic has been handled in just a half a dozen states.
Imagine the variation in 50.

One thing is pretty certain Trump's behaviour in the last fortnight would have damaged him amongst moderate and swinging voters.

Covid cost him

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2051 –
And that’s another thing the US did badly. In the early days, Trump failed to ensure the availability of testing kits. Doctors had to ration them and they chose to use them only on the living. If someone died before they had been tested, the death couldn’t be recorded as a covid death even if that was the obvious COD.

Then, states like Florida found it was easier to reduce the case statistics by massaging them rather than to stop the spread of covid, sacking the statisticians who wouldn’t go along with the plan.

And then Trump mandated that Hospitals cease sending their stats to the CDC and instead send them to the DHS (which is more under Trump’s control).

Chances are the US death tally is an undercount, which is pretty amazing given the astounding total.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2052 –
Quote from: Lods on
Covid cost him

Let's wait and see on that and biden's miracle numbers turnaround .... on that and law and order.  I'm on record as saying I'm no great fan of trump, but uneasy wears the crown for sleepy, if he wins

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #2053 –
Quote from: capcom on
Let's wait and see on that and biden's miracle numbers turnaround .... on that and law and order.  I'm on record as saying I'm no great fan of trump, but uneasy wears the crown for sleepy, if he wins

No doubt.
Trumps a bit like a snake.
You won't really be sure he's dead until sundown.
He'll still have the ability to bite and poison even when you think he's dead.
And as we saw last time don't take anything for granted...especially with the electoral college situation.

The thing is though that there are a rusted on group at both extremes.
They're not going to change their vote.
The election will be won in the moderate/swinging voter range.
I just can't see how the last fortnight would swing voters in this range towards Trump given his behaviour and attitude during his "surprisingly short and seemingly minimal" illness.

However having said that who knows what influences or events could play into the next couple of weeks.
Expect the unexpected.