I hope Dan Andrews is caught up in this traffic.
Problem is it would make no difference to him.
What an utter waste of public funds. Ie our money.
Farking grub
I hope Dan Andrews is caught up in this traffic.
Problem is it would make no difference to him.
What an utter waste of public funds. Ie our money.
Farking grub
Took me over 90 minutes to get home today (From Kew)....and i live in the north and was nowhere near the west gate and its holdups.
East west tunnel would work, but its a bandaid on a potentially lethal cut.
They need to heavily invest in PT and get all these cars off the road, then there will be less traffic and less traffic accidents!
Sure we need more/better public transport but we also need the EW Link to handle the commercial road traffic, never mind private cars.
Took me over 90 minutes to get home today (From Kew)....and i live in the north and was nowhere near the west gate and its holdups.
East west tunnel would work, but its a bandaid on a potentially lethal cut.
They need to heavily invest in PT and get all these cars off the road, then there will be less traffic and less traffic accidents!
Heavily invest?
We live in one of the biggest cities in the world area wise.
We have a modest population per sq km.
Who gets the public transport?
You cannot provide it to everyone without spending our grand kids pensions.
Back to reality, we wasted $1b on nothing.
Heavily invest?
We live in one of the biggest cities in the world area wise.
We have a modest population per sq km.
Who gets the public transport?
You cannot provide it to everyone without spending our grand kids pensions.
Back to reality, we wasted $1b on nothing.
With the population growing by the day, the traffic problem is going to get worse.
EW link is a Finger in the dyke. How long will it hold? Not long enough.
You worried about your grandkids? Perhaps make sure there is a world for them to actually grow up in.
Cars are far from good for the environment. PT flogs it in terms of environmental benefits.
WHere to put the rail? Everywhere!
Rail to Tullamarine is a good start.
More rail around the city which they are doing.
Already adding some rail out my way.
Doncaster area should be next.
Adding a new line/extension takes 100's of cars of the roads every day.
Wow lucky for me I live 1 minute from work! :P
Re the government blowing our funds, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Let's look at 5 star junkets, free flights for family etc at top dollar prices. Brumby the fool set the state back years and retired on a 2.3 million super fund with freebies for life. That's what is wrong with this country. The people in charge.
With the population growing by the day, the traffic problem is going to get worse.
EW link is a Finger in the dyke. How long will it hold? Not long enough.
You worried about your grandkids? Perhaps make sure there is a world for them to actually grow up in.
Cars are far from good for the environment. PT flogs it in terms of environmental benefits.
WHere to put the rail? Everywhere!
Rail to Tullamarine is a good start.
More rail around the city which they are doing.
Already adding some rail out my way.
Doncaster area should be next.
Adding a new line/extension takes 100's of cars of the roads every day.
As I said, we have to deal with reality.
You cannot just add train lines to a system that cannot handle it.
I agree we need PT but it will never be the entire solution in a city this vast.
Oh and throwing away a billion dollars cannot be justified no matter how you swing it.
That tunnel should have been built and so should the western link connecting the ports to the western ring road.
The current plan to link it to the West Gate is a farce again.
Not trying to justify wasting a billion dollars, but as carrots said, its far from unusual.
Build the link, sure, but in 10 years time it'll be just like it is now. Bandaid solution.
Rail needs a rethink to handle the extra, sure, but it can be done
One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.
A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on the Tullamarine. It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'
Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD. Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.
Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong. I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane. The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.
One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.
A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on the Tullamarine. It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'
Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD. Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.
Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong. I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane. The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.
Lindsay Fox suggested years ago that the Ports should be moved from Port Melb out to Western Port Bay to stop the trucks having to go through or near the city to get to them as they do now. Seems logical but do the imbeciles listen? You'd reckon a bloke who has become a Billionaire from the transport game would know a thing or two about transport.
One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.
A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on the Tullamarine. It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'
Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD. Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.
Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong. I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane. The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.
You're right many other cities experience traffic issues but I don't know of any that piss away $1billion.
Most of the traffic that goes through royal park could have gone underground.
Just simply wasteful and arrogant.
Obviously from people who find it very easy to spend someone else's money
Doesn't come close to the Monash carpark.
Heavily invest?
We live in one of the biggest cities in the world area wise.
We have a modest population per sq km.
Who gets the public transport?
You cannot provide it to everyone without spending our grand kids pensions.
Back to reality, we wasted $1b on nothing.
Melbourne has never been in a position to make the most of public transport. As a city it has always had a spread out population to deal with. Even in its infancy, the people who came to Melbourne like room and moved to where it was as quickly as they could. Granted that they did grow where the public transport was (very good planning 130 years ago - wonder what happened since?), but they did move out as quickly as they could. Melbourne has always had a very low population density.
The problem with putting public transport in now, as the population is becoming somewhat more concentrated, is that it has NOT be planned for. The spaces for the it don't exist. Much of the ground once covered by train tracks was long ago sold and built on. Remember, there was a train track only 100 m North of Princes Park for a long time: some of that still remains today, but not much.
Hence the problem the Andrews' Government has at the moment with their effort to replace level crossings. There is no place to go but up or down, and down is expensive.
To be honest, building underground is the way to go. Just have a look at London's tube system, which is a really good transport system. But we don't yet have the population density to make this viable and we don't have the money to do it. Nor are we likely to any time soon.
There are simply some things that governments cannot do (although very few have ever thought of admitting it).
The other good thing about the Tube in London is that it is not relatively expensive. The system can make a profit while still not breaking the bank. That is not the case here. Companies do not see the way to make a profit and fares are not cheap. The fare system is illogical and confusing. If they do not invest, then it is harder to make public transport work at all.
The other thing we really lack is long term planning. Back in Melbourne's infancy there was money (from Gold) and some reasonable planning (at least in the Eastern Suburbs). The idea then was to design a system that allowed traffic to quickly and efficiently. That model died some time ago. Governments rarely look past the next election - after all, if they look further ahead, then it is likely that the other mob gets the credit for it coming to fruition on their watch.
For example, Labour didn't like freeways. They twice sold the land that was to join the 2 sections of what is now the Monash Freeway. Twice the Libs, who like freeways, had to buy it back, at great cost.
For the East West Link to work as it should, the land the Libs acquired was necessary. That that they may not get access to it, then the East West Link will forever have major issues, even if the rest gets built at all.
The Ring road is another case of very poor design. It has built in bottlenecks that become very obvious most afternoons. More ring roads should have been planned into Melbourne after WWII. But they were not, so we have about half a ring that suffers each day.
London's Ring road is much better designed that ours, and it still has major issues. It simply wasn't designed to handle the number of cars that use it. Ours was never adequate and wasn't on the first day it was opened.
To conclude, I can't see transport in Melbourne getting any better. It needs money that can't and won't be spent. It needs good design and long term planning, neither of which are likely. It needs the sort of major overhaul that Paris experienced in the 2nd Empire, turning Paris was the most disgusting city in Europe into one that still impresses. Baron Hausmann got a free hand and plenty of money from Napoleon III. Parisians hated it until they saw how good it was. We have no Napoleon III, no Baron Hausmann and no resources. We have 'residents' groups' that fight any change just about anywhere. We have a distinct lack of planning and a total hatred of the straight line in roads. That just doesn't look good as more people are coming here every day.
We have 'residents' groups' that fight any change just about anywhere. We have a distinct lack of planning and a total hatred of the straight line in roads. That just doesn't look good as more people are coming here every day.
Top post Crash. And just on the last point, not only do we have groups that fight any change, we go and make a critical piece of infrastructure, that the everyone can benefit from, an election issue. How imbecilic was that? What does which political party you support have to do with a bit of "kit" EVERYONE can benefit from? It makes no sense to me.
One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.
Very true. And very clear when you trying to get away from the footy after a game.
A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on the Tullamarine. It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'
I am not sure a train line down the middle of the freeway is a good idea, but to have no train line going directly from the airport to the city is insane.
Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD. Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.
The radial system is fine, as long as there are some rings to go around the outside. There never has been. That rail cannot compete with road, even in the middle of the city, is a sever design deficiency.
Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong. I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane. The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.
Paris worked very well for a long while, with its wider streets and boulevards and reasonable public transport system. But it was not designed for the number of people it has now. Their freeway system, with toll booths, is a nightmare. The population simply expanded far quicker than the ideas of how to deal with it. And there is no Napoleon III to force the people of Paris to do what is necessary.
One of the dubious advantages of losing a really big war is the ability to redesign your cities from the rubble. Germany experienced that. They also have a LOT of cities instead of a lot of megalopolises. Only Berlin (which didn't have a choice) and München have grown to the point where their infrastructure is badly stressed. The other cities are small enough and concentrated enough for a decent public transport system and a lot of good road design to make them work.
Anyone for nuking Melbourne and Sydney back to the stone age?
Top post Crash. And just on the last point, not only do we have groups that fight any change, we go and make a critical piece of infrastructure, that the everyone can benefit from, an election issue. How imbecilic was that? What does which political party you support have to do with a bit of "kit" EVERYONE can benefit from? It makes no sense to me.
Thanks, but I am sorry it was something of an essay. I seem to write a LOT more nowadays (at Uni, as a Maths/Science student, the fewer words the better was my mantra).
And your point was very true. There is very little bipartisan support for major projects. Making infrastructure like that an election issue basically ensured its death.
In some ways it shows the evolution of our politics. We have a very adversarial system. Back in the day there were different parties, but they could get along enough to do what was necessary. That is no longer the case. The Labour Party and the Liberals cannot see eye to eye on anything short of a war while the Greens want a basic change to most things in our society.
Blame the Liberals entirely. Signed the East/West contract trying to play politics knowing they were going to lose the election, also knowing Labor wasn't building it. It went to the election and Labor won. How many people complaining that it's not being built voted Labor? Andrews made a promise and he kept it. Libs were only going to Toll up every other road to pay for it, meaning people like me, who wouldn't use the East/West link would have to pay a toll on another road.
Westgate Freeway can be pretty bad, so the Western Distributor suits me alot better. Personally couldn't give a toss about the East/West link.
Blame the Liberals entirely. Signed the East/West contract trying to play politics knowing they were going to lose the election, also knowing Labor wasn't building it. It went to the election and Labor won. How many people complaining that it's not being built voted Labor? Andrews made a promise and he kept it. Libs were only going to Toll up every other road to pay for it, meaning people like me, who wouldn't use the East/West link would have to pay a toll on another road.
Westgate Freeway can be pretty bad, so the Western Distributor suits me alot better. Personally couldn't give a toss about the East/West link.
Guess that proves my point. But as long a dirty swine of a polly kept his election promise, thats the main thing huh. Proved a real good point he did.
Took me over 90 minutes to get home today (From Kew)....and i live in the north and was nowhere near the west gate and its holdups.
East west tunnel would work, but its a bandaid on a potentially lethal cut.
They need to heavily invest in PT and get all these cars off the road, then there will be less traffic and less traffic accidents!
It's not about cars or public transport. It's about freight and trades workers trying to cross town. You can't get freight or tools on trains. We all end up paying for the delays and that's what Andrews and the other dickheads can't work out. Just build it!
Not trying to justify wasting a billion dollars, but as carrots said, its far from unusual.
Build the link, sure, but in 10 years time it'll be just like it is now. Bandaid solution.
Rail needs a rethink to handle the extra, sure, but it can be done
How does that make it a bandaid? There's not a single bit of complicated infrastructure you build once and forget. It needs investment and updating otherwise it becomes an issue.
How does that make it a bandaid? There's not a single bit of complicated infrastructure you build once and forget. It needs investment and updating otherwise it becomes an issue.
Agree IOT. It has to be part of a master plan, its a just piece of the jig saw.
Agree IOT. It has to be part of a master plan, its a just piece of the jig saw.
Effective planning is the key - we seem to be in constant reaction mode in this state, and plagued by politicised decisions
One of the problems with our transport infrastructure is that it's not integrated.
A rail line should have been built down the middle of the Eastern Freeway and another should have gone in on the Tullamarine. It's a scandal that we don't have a train servicing Melbourne Airport'
Of course, the radial nature of our rail system needs to be addressed with suburban interchanges getting people to their destinations without going through the CBD. Getting heavy vehicles off the road wouldn't go astray but it all costs money and Aussie politicians are terrified of raising taxes, or even not reducing current taxes.
Melbourne is not the only city to suffer traffic chaos when something goes wrong. I was heading north out of Paris a couple of years ago and there was a truck fire on the inbound lane. The traffic was banked up for 21kms and there were hundreds of vehicles still heading towards the jam.
Funny to think there actually was an outer circle train line and a bunch of various criss-crossing links between lines. Long gone now. They had more nous in 1890.
Effective planning is the key - we seem to be in constant reaction mode in this state, and plagued by politicised decisions
BANG! Take it off the buffoon politicians hands and into those who would know what they are doing for the better of all Victorians.
Funny to think there actually was an outer circle train line and a bunch of various criss-crossing links between lines. Long gone now. They had more nous in 1890.
Some of the reserves still exist but most was sold off. It probably needs to be a bit further out now, but I can't see it happening.
I know Perth is a much smaller city but they seem to have the right idea when it comes to major roads and public transport network.
You put a train line into Tulla airport then a lot of people will be out of work...not a good way to win voters over in the affected industries...
Train down the freeway to Doncaster...got problems there with the connection points where the preferred end of line is Doncaster Hill and not the park and ride bus terminal, there is an engineering issue with a steep tunnel that would need to be built and that is going to cost big dollars.
They were also talking about the inner connection point being Fairfield station...not ideal either.....only 2% only of car drivers would be expected to leave the car at home and jump on the train.....Donny residents like their comfy Mercs and BM's..
Total Cost was seen as a max of 5 Billion.....and they want public money as part of that cost.......good luck with that one.....
The signalling system also need s a full upgrade....thats a massive cost..
You put a train line into Tulla airport then a lot of people will be out of work...not a good way to win voters over in the affected industries...
That's where it's messed up.
I live in Geelong and we've got pretty minimal traffic issues in comparison to Melbourne. The east west link is one I would have supported though.It makes sense. Rail to Tulla is another. It makes sense. I'm related to Denis Napthine and in the due course of time I shall also quiz him on the proposed Corio Bay bridge from Point Henry which would cut 20 minutes from my daily commute that he suggested whilst in opposition. It makes sense. Seriously what is the point of an Andrews government? And I have not voted Liberal in the state elections since the early days of Kennett.
Blame the Liberals entirely. Signed the East/West contract trying to play politics knowing they were going to lose the election, also knowing Labor wasn't building it. It went to the election and Labor won. How many people complaining that it's not being built voted Labor? Andrews made a promise and he kept it. Libs were only going to Toll up every other road to pay for it, meaning people like me, who wouldn't use the East/West link would have to pay a toll on another road.
Westgate Freeway can be pretty bad, so the Western Distributor suits me alot better. Personally couldn't give a toss about the East/West link.
To be perfectly honest I wouldn't use it either.
But it would have supported melbournes economy and taken a large percentage of traffic off the streets around Carlton fitzroy and collingwood, but at the end of the day, if you're not going to use it Jim, why should the state of Victoria build it?
Effective planning is the key - we seem to be in constant reaction mode in this state, and plagued by politicised decisions
That tunnel/road has been part of a master plan for decades
Blame the Liberals entirely. Signed the East/West contract trying to play politics knowing they were going to lose the election, also knowing Labor wasn't building it. It went to the election and Labor won. How many people complaining that it's not being built voted Labor? Andrews made a promise and he kept it. Libs were only going to Toll up every other road to pay for it, meaning people like me, who wouldn't use the East/West link would have to pay a toll on another road.
Westgate Freeway can be pretty bad, so the Western Distributor suits me alot better. Personally couldn't give a toss about the East/West link.
Andrews spent $1b of our cash after promising it would not cost anything, you alreday coughed up for a road we dont have. Did he keep that promise? Now the independent infrastructure panel has east/west as first on the list we will pay again. You tell me who played politics with our cash.
That tunnel/road has been part of a master plan for decades
You mean that master plan that never gets implemented?
Andrews spent $1b of our cash after promising it would not cost anything, you alreday coughed up for a road we dont have. Did he keep that promise? Now the independent infrastructure panel has east/west as first on the list we will pay again. You tell me who played politics with our cash.
Just on this, they throw all these figures around with little to no analysis, and last I checked that quantity of money hasnt actually been spent by the Andrews Government.
Part of it was the land buy back that happened years ago which has been spent, and whilst that land does cost money in terms of rates etc, its not money that the government is going to pay to council now, its council rates the council have not seen since.
Government talk about money is political bulltish first, and actual money spent later.
I wouldnt be surprised if the actual cost of not building the road was nothing, but people created a hole in balance sheets to show this figure. I know a little bit about budgets, and how money gets handballed around, and I can tell you that this is the most likely scenario here.
Just on this, they throw all these figures around with little to no analysis, and last I checked that quantity of money hasnt actually been spent by the Andrews Government.
Part of it was the land buy back that happened years ago which has been spent, and whilst that land does cost money in terms of rates etc, its not money that the government is going to pay to council now, its council rates the council have not seen since.
Government talk about money is political bulltish first, and actual money spent later.
I wouldnt be surprised if the actual cost of not building the road was nothing, but people created a hole in balance sheets to show this figure. I know a little bit about budgets, and how money gets handballed around, and I can tell you that this is the most likely scenario here.
So Thry, are you saying the contractors simply walked away with nothing?
Are you saying the State Government didn't buy the houses?
So Thry, are you saying the contractors simply walked away with nothing?
Are you saying the State Government didn't buy the houses?
Not at all.
I am saying that they use wild numbers to bring up the total dollar value, not recognising tangibles.
i.e. they spent money to buy houses and land, which resulted in an increase in assets to go with expenditure, and that those assets have dollar values that are increasing in time because inner city land values change.
Just like they state the public holiday for the grand final costs 1 billion dollars.
Understand?
I seem to recall that 300 million was sitting in coughers earning interest waiting to be spent on the project, and that the federal government demanded the money back from the state government in order to hamstring the state government.
As a voter, I hate all politicians as I see them for the snakes they are.
In this case we have Federal (Liberal) contributing to ensuring that the state government (Labor) look bad.
Why is that do you think?
As for the contractors, who knows what dollars they actually walked away with, but there is no chance that they walked away with more money than it was originally going to cost to build the fricken thing. This is all political tit for tat rubbish and the only person footing the bill is joe average at the end of the line.
As a voter, I hate all politicians as I see them for the snakes they are.
Amen to that brother!
To be perfectly honest I wouldn't use it either.
But it would have supported melbournes economy and taken a large percentage of traffic off the streets around Carlton fitzroy and collingwood, but at the end of the day, if you're not going to use it Jim, why should the state of Victoria build it?
That's the (community) spirit.
Are you saying the State Government didn't buy the houses?
On the bright side, I took a look at what houses are doing in that area last week and if the government sells the houses they bought a year or two ago, they should make about a hundred million on ripping up the contracts :P
How does that make it a bandaid? There's not a single bit of complicated infrastructure you build once and forget. It needs investment and updating otherwise it becomes an issue.
I'm suggesting that people proclaiming the east west link is required to fix traffic issues is missing the bigger picture.
It will 'ease' traffic, in some areas only. It will fix nothing. Bandaid solution.
As many have mentioned, master plan, one piece of the jigsaw puzzle etc etc.
@Crash i think it was talking about radial system.
The 'outer rings' you talk about are what the buses are supposedly for. Buses on the roads that are jammed and contribute to the overall problem.
Outer ring rail system would be simply put in the too hard basket.
I used to play sim city back on the SNES when i was younger. If my city got to the stage Melbourne is at now, i'd just about take your approach and nuke the whole thing!
I'm suggesting that people proclaiming the east west link is required to fix traffic issues is missing the bigger picture.
It will 'ease' traffic, in some areas only. It will fix nothing. Bandaid solution.
As many have mentioned, master plan, one piece of the jigsaw puzzle etc etc.
@Crash i think it was talking about radial system.
The 'outer rings' you talk about are what the buses are supposedly for. Buses on the roads that are jammed and contribute to the overall problem.
Outer ring rail system would be simply put in the too hard basket.
I used to play sim city back on the SNES when i was younger. If my city got to the stage Melbourne is at now, i'd just about take your approach and nuke the whole thing!
Yes, a bandaid over a festering sore.
Buses would really only work if there was a dedicated carriageway and I imagine that would be a cheaper option than rail or light rail.
Yes, a bandaid over a festering sore.
Buses would really only work if there was a dedicated carriageway and I imagine that would be a cheaper option than rail or light rail.
Buses don't work, name one city in which they solved this or a similar problem. Trains are required to be efficient and regular to be effective like the MRTs in Asia, yet they do not cover the distances we are talking about east to west of Melbourne and we simply do not have the CBD infrastructure to support a significant increase in PT passengers from a high functioning east/west rail line.
Easy to call PT the solution to the problem, hard to explain how it would actually help.
As for the argument that the money spent was not that much, bull*@_. We paid a massive (we don't know how big) break contract fee, for nothing.
Does it need to be a tunnel? If the skyrail process works for our rail network, why can't it work for our roads?
Does it need to be a tunnel? If the skyrail process works for our rail network, why can't it work for our roads?
Who says it works for rail?
To get freight and airport traffic off the Eastern Freeway - Link up East-Link and the Ring Road.
That way freight and airport traffic can _completely_ bypass the city.
This project is rated at a much higher positive return on investment.
Why did the Libs not want to build it ? The big toll money is from commuters - not freight.
Tearing up the inner North upsets Greens voters, The ring road link is in swinging/lib seats.
Gets easy votes from people who fall for the illusory "more freeway = less traffic" instead of the always happens "more freeway = more traffic", especially in a city with an increasing population.
They call it VicRoads because they only do roads. The answer has to be roads, more roads, big trucks and roads. Rail/bike/pedestrian - what are they ?
To get freight and airport traffic off the Eastern Freeway - Link up East-Link and the Ring Road.
That way freight and airport traffic can _completely_ bypass the city.
This project is rated at a much higher positive return on investment.
Why did the Libs not want to build it ? The big toll money is from commuters - not freight.
Tearing up the inner North upsets Greens voters, The ring road link is in swinging/lib seats.
Gets easy votes from people who fall for the illusory "more freeway = less traffic" instead of the always happens "more freeway = more traffic", especially in a city with an increasing population.
They call it VicRoads because they only do roads. The answer has to be roads, more roads, big trucks and roads. Rail/bike/pedestrian - what are they ?
Tear up the inner north?
You mean the pristine wilderness of Alexander parade?
They were actually building a tunnel under the inner north which would have removed a huge amount of traffic off the streets above.
Do you think by not building it, with a growing population this traffic is going to reduce some other way?
If trains were the only answer I am sure they would build them but 5 million people all want their 1/4 acre block.
It doesn't add up. It's a fiscal nightmare to suggest it would.
The greens answer is always just spend more "govt" money.
What we should be doing is stopping our city boundaries being constantly expanded and build better rural cities for people to live in.