Mad Monday coming up very soon.
Righto, thank Christ this abomination of a year is finished...... >:(
The pressure is red hot now for Bolton and his crew...4th year of this rebuild coming up...the Blowtorch is gonna come now...your outta credits Teacher!
Cripps breaks clearance records.
Polson plays his best game for the Blues
Silvagni took a nice mark
Harry continues to impress but lacks good service....
That's about it for the positives
Cripps breaks clearance records.
Polson plays his best game for the Blues
Silvagni took a nice mark
Harry continues to impress but lacks good service....
That's about it for the positives
Weitering looked better before his injury
Cripps breaks clearance records.
Polson plays his best game for the Blues
Silvagni took a nice mark
Harry continues to impress but lacks good service....
That's about it for the positives
One more...
Seasons over!
Weitering looked better before his injury
Yeah, I thought he started really well today, was stitched up a bit by the umpires, that will stop happening over the next two or three seasons!
Wasnt much to get excited about...Weitering started well, Cripps was the best as usual and the work experience kid Polson played his best game and got some reward for his tackles with a couple of good goals and will earn some votes from me as he at least tried unlike a few of his teammates who just ambled around doing nothing...
Harry was probably the most exciting with some good marks and goals and hopefully Bolton plays him from round 1 next season...
Boltons coaching and game tactics leave a bit to be desired and he is a green shoot coach who needs to sprout next year to save his job
Byrne showed enough. Poulson too. McKay will be a game breaker. Weitering was showing something. O’Brien was busy Thomas can stay, not sure, with a full list where we put Simpson.... he just butchers the ball too much.
Righto, thank Christ this abomination of a year is finished...... >:(
The pressure is red hot now for Bolton and his crew...4th year of this rebuild coming up...the Blowtorch is gonna come now...your outta credits Teacher!
Please, no 4th year. This year made Pagan look good. 3 x 100pts defeats, a number of 10 goal defeat, so often a lack of effort. At least Adelaide had 18 on the ground in this 100pt defeat.
Boltons coaching and game tactics leave a bit to be desired and he is a green shoot coach who needs to sprout next year to save his job
Yep, I'm probably a BB booster, I see him as safe for next year but it needs to be a big step up from this year.
Another spate of injuries will not save him like it probably has this year!
Cripps breaks clearance records.
Polson plays his best game for the Blues
Silvagni took a nice mark
Harry continues to impress but lacks good service....
That's about it for the positives
Byrne's second half was outstanding.
For the love of God hire a decent field kicking coach! We can't allow errors and turnovers by foot to be the norm, particularly for young guys like O'Brien and Samo. Also penetration on the kick must be taught - not just the ability to hit targets.
O'Brien strikes me as a kid who took risks in under 18 comp and they weren't good enough to hurt him if he missed. Being exposed currently.
Both Samo and Polson can't kick goals from 40 - 45. Was never a problem for Ashman, Buckley, Sheldon etc...
For the love of God hire a decent field kicking coach! We can't allow errors and turnovers by foot to be the norm, particularly for young guys like O'Brien and Samo. Also penetration on the kick must be taught - not just the ability to hit targets.
O'Brien strikes me as a kid who took risks in under 18 comp and they weren't good enough to hurt him if he missed. Being exposed currently.
Both Samo and Polson can't kick goals from 40 - 45. Was never a problem for Ashman, Buckley, Sheldon etc...
Havent been a fan of Polson but he did get his two goals tonight and while he isnt a long kick I would prefer him being straight kick which he was tonight...
Obrien leans back on a lot of kicks and sprays them or kicks them short...not sure what to make of him to be honest...
Havent been a fan of Polson but he did get his two goals tonight and while he isnt a long kick I would prefer him being straight kick which he was tonight...
Obrien leans back on a lot of kicks and sprays them or kicks them short...not sure what to make of him to be honest...
I hope he comes good but he is very loose as a defender and about as physical as our skipper
Obrien leans back on a lot of kicks and sprays them or kicks them short...not sure what to make of him to be honest...
It's his first year and he still looks a bit uncomfortable against big bodied men in my opinion, but he shows enough ability to be confident about his future.
Polson might make it, I doubt that Silvagni will.
I hope he comes good but he is very loose as a defender and about as physical as our skipper
Obrien got a bit of ball but I think he had Atkins who chopped us up with three goals, he definitely does need to
work on his defensive game.
Both Murphy and Simpson were under whelming in their physicality tonight....and Murphys kicking was terrible...
It's his first year and he still looks a bit uncomfortable against big bodied men in my opinion, but he shows enough ability to be confident about his future.
Yes, like O'brien we saw De Koning tonight against the Crows who are a big bodied team, our kids need time whether they are mids or talls!
Polson might make it, I doubt that Silvagni will.
I think they can both have a role, I just doubt SoJ will ever be fairly appraised!
Long term I see SoJ as a natural replacement for the Daisy type role!
Yes, like O'brien we saw De Koning tonight against the Crows who are a big bodied team, our kids need time whether they are mids or talls!
I think they can both have a role, I just doubt SoJ will ever be fairly appraised!
Long term I see SoJ as a natural replacement for the Daisy type role!
Thomas gets lots more of the ball, is quicker and has better skills, even though he's past his best he's still a much better footballer than Jack.
I hope he makes it but it's his third year now and he's fully fit, it's not looking good.
You bring McGovern and Fasalo in and thats Jack done down forward......our midfield is already slow...IMO Jack needs to make it as a half back or he will be struggling for a game and spend a lot of time in the NB's as that reserve type utility without a permanent role...
12 possies tonight and one tackle....playing down back tonight he would have had a fair opportunity to lay a few tackles, he either needs to work harder or get to more contests by getting quicker...needs a big pre season of sprint work.
.IMO Jack needs to make it as a half back
Not ahead of Byrne, Williamson or Docherty.
Not ahead of Byrne, Williamson or Docherty.
Byrne gets injured a lot, Williamson is a fav player of mine but we need to see how he comes up after his back issues.....Docherty would take the small flankers where
I would see Jack taking the taller types. I do agree he has a few in front of him though and needs to improve most aspects of his game...
Byrne gets injured a lot, Williamson is a fav player of mine but we need to see how he comes up after his back issues.....Docherty would take the small flankers where
I would see Jack taking the taller types. I do agree he has a few in front of him though and needs to improve most aspects of his game...
I think one of his problems is that he is yet to convince himself that he belongs. The only real sign of him being assertive was when he took that mark in the last quarter.
Weiters looked like he was back to some good form. Then... as per the 2018 tale of the CFC, he got injured :-\
C'est la vie ???
H made a real pest of himself with some beautiful leads and marks, and a couple of goals to boot.
Polson's pressure was exciting and paid dividends tonight.
Byrne gave us the speed and accuracy we so lacked. He's going to be a real asset if he can stay fit.
Jack's mark was a beauty and Lobbe often got the better of big Sauce.
The biggest highlight reel tonight was our very own Crippa. Congratulations son. What an outstanding year you've had. Relieving Dangerfield of the CP record is a fitting end to a stellar season in a season we all want to forget. Take a bow Crippa????????
I think one of his problems is that he is yet to convince himself that he belongs. The only real sign of him being assertive was when he took that mark in the last quarter.
Fair points TC.....he cant seem to find a position to call his own and you are right he probably has a few self doubts if he does belong...carrying a fair weight with the Silvagni name too.
Maybe when his brother Ben arrives that burden may halve and he might improve....
Weiters looked like he was back to some good form. Then... as per the 2018 tale of the CFC, he got injured :-\
C'est la vie ???
H made a real pest of himself with some beautiful leads and marks, and a couple of goals to boot.
Polson's pressure was exciting and paid dividends tonight.
Byrne gave us the speed and accuracy we so lacked. He's going to be a real asset if he can stay fit.
Jack's mark was a beauty and Lobbe often got the better of big Sauce.
The biggest highlight reel tonight was our very own Crippa. Congratulations son. What an outstanding year you've had. Relieving Dangerfield of the CP record is a fitting end to a stellar season in a season we all want to forget. Take a bow Crippa????????
24 contested possessions with what seemed to be a busted ankle. What a beast.
We were told this started as a 66 game rebuild. Wonder how that's going.
Just a disgrace.
That was a tough game to watch live - the stupid crows cheer squad have some grown man making crow noises after their goals - highly irritating!
Thought Weiters looked great before the injury, Polson works his arse off and I was happy he got some rewards.
Byrne I love.
Stupid errors mainly by Ed, wtf was going on there today? Daisy Murph and Simmo too, just really annoying.
H, I feel so confident when he’s going for goal, which is a bloody nice change!
I really love Samo and he gets to lots of contests, he doesn’t stop running, but I didn’t see much pressure applied :(
crap end to a crap year.
Oh and Eddie Betts class went to the Carlton cheer squad after the game ????????????????
We were told this started as a 66 game rebuild. Wonder how that's going.
Just a disgrace.
Coaching very average tonight Jim...Laird allowed to sit off the play on his own and rack up the possies.....coaching box needs a shakeup..
Coaching very average tonight Jim...Laird allowed to sit off the play on his own and rack up the possies.....coaching box needs a shakeup..
That was a disgraceful and quite frankly 'disrespectful' performance by those 21 players out there tonight. They should be ashamed of themselves. 2 wins for the damn year, and they toss that up at the supporters who actually bothered to go and watch them. Bolton should be removed now after 3 100 point defeats in 8 weeks. We need a new coach to take us into a preseason.
Just found we won the inside 50s 61-54. In what football universe does that happens and you lose by 100pts. That is the poorest form of coaching imaginable. Injuries cant excuse that as we're good enough to at least get it and kick it in there.but have such a poor system, plan etc that we are getting zero from it.and getting slammed on the rebound. Playing modern footy is something we don't have a clue about.
Polsons best game by a mile and showed he can actually play a bit. Good to see reward for effort because he sure does try. that's the only new thing i learned that was positive.
We need Fisher, Dow and Sheil in the middle with Cripps, and still somehow keep pick 1 for Walsh. With support from SPS and Kennedy that would be a quality midfield for a long time.
Maybe on tonight's effort we can be assured of a better PP. It should be pretty early in the first round based on our recent history, but i suspect it will be mid to late first round thanks to the moaning from other clubs. Still not enough to land Sheil by itself but i'd hand over pick 11 (or whatever it ends up being) plus next years first rounder and maybe get Setterfield too.
We must improve significantly next year. On the field and in the coaches box.
Thank god thats over. Here's to 2019.
Just found we won the inside 50s 61-54. In what football universe does that happens and you lose by 100pts. That is the poorest form of coaching imaginable. Injuries cant excuse that as we're good enough to at least get it and kick it in there.but have such a poor system, plan etc that we are getting zero from it.and getting slammed on the rebound. Playing modern footy is something we don't have a clue about.
It tells you that we have figured out a pattern of ball movement to get the ball where we want it to be, which is a good thing. It also tells you that we haven't figured out the rest, which is an indication as I've said repeatedly, that we have a mountain of work to do.
No coach encourages the players to turn the ball over, no coach encourages players to allow their tackles to be broken, to miss easy set shots, to miss shots on the run etc.
Our malaise runs deeper than the coach, deeper than the supposed wussy captain, and certainly much deeper than a PP.
Coaching very average tonight Jim...Laird allowed to sit off the play on his own and rack up the possies.....coaching box needs a shakeup..
Even two of the commentators on FOX (ex players, Brown was one) were having digs at BBs coaching... never heard that from either of them before and you could hear they were hesitant and didn't want to nail BB but the coaching was just so bad it had to be mentioned.
There was nothing in last night's (or the season for that matter) coaching to instill any confidence in this little black duck that BBs the man for next year. Nuh. It'll be more of the same.
It was the last game of the year, the players should have been fired up and enthusiastic to enjoy the night... instead they seemed clueless, directionless, spiritless, confused and lethargic. It was a disgrace. The jumper was humiliated and you can't take that back.
I understand folks look for positives and to find reasons (injuries etc) for last night's debacle.... but the reality is this group needs a strong, experienced senior coach, a leader. Because BB sure as hell has lost them, and the blow-torch should be on others in the coaching box... Barker... vamoose please.
It should have been the easiest gig of the year, getting blokes up for the last game. Nuh. The players sent a very clear message to all and sundry last night in terms of their understanding of the game plan, and those who sell it to them.
It tells you that we have figured out a pattern of ball movement to get the ball where we want it to be, which is a good thing. It also tells you that we haven't figured out the rest, which is an indication as I've said repeatedly, that we have a mountain of work to do.
No coach encourages the players to turn the ball over, no coach encourages players to allow their tackles to be broken, to miss easy set shots, to miss shots on the run etc.
Our malaise runs deeper than the coach, deeper than the supposed wussy captain, and certainly much deeper than a PP.
I think it actually means we get the ball into our forward line with meaningless entries that don't give our forwards enough to work with (but when it does get there, there also isn't enough defensive pressure to keep it there) and that our 'zone' is the worst defensive structure since the Maginot line.
Our forward ball movement is virtually non-existent. When we do try and link up and run together it can be good, but it is often derailed by someone miskicking or dropping simple marks (looking at you Ed Butterfingers Curnow). We then spend most of the game kicking long down the boundary line for safety in the hope that Charlie or Big Harry can beat the 2-3 opposition players who have lined up to stop them. The brilliant part is our initiative to first slowly switch play by kicking backwards a few times, before then kicking long down the line in hope. How can we expect to move the ball forward when we have 5 players anchored in the back 50 waiting for the switch all the time? That's nearly a third of our players sitting back while the opposition sets up across the ground to outnumber us everywhere else.
As for our defence, the way players just guard space is infuriating. So many times through the season, and especially last night, we saw our guys jog into the spot they've been told to occupy in team meetings only to stand by while the opposition runs harder through all the spaces, works the ball forward with ease and kicks to someone who has managed to 'sneak' back behind our last line of defence to take an easy mark or run onto a loose ball.
Our game plan is broken and our structures and systems don't work. We can bring in all the top end talent and draft picks we like but if we don't improve our skills, work rate and game plan in 2019 we're going nowhere. We have got to abandon the zone in 2019 to play some accountable 1 on 1 footy or at worst, drop just 1 player back loose behind play.
Barbs, I don't deny that there is a problem with our zone, and I'm not sure if the players are too young / too dumb to make adjustments when required, if the coaches aren't communicating properly etc. There are many reasons. Docherty is so far and away our best and smartest defender it's just not funny. We have the very experienced Daisy and Simmo acting as on field back line generals, and yet they cannot marshall the troops ? And for this Bolton should be sacked ? People seem to forget our zone was rock solid in 2016 and 2017 - people think Bolton is suffering amnesia ?
I don't have any allegiance to Bolton, I just think laying it all at the coach's feet is a cop out answer to our current predicament.
Out tackled 70 to 50 by a Softish crows outfit. Disgraceful.
Formula for success is simple:
Eliminate/minimise disposal errors
Draft/trade in a midfield
100 percent work rate 100 percent of the time
Develop a system to move the ball forwards.
Piss off the zone defence and learn to play simple, traditional "beat your opponent" defence.
Don't front up next year Bolton without addressing the above or you won't make round five.
Barbs, I don't deny that there is a problem with our zone, and I'm not sure if the players are too young / too dumb to make adjustments when required, if the coaches aren't communicating properly etc. There are many reasons. Docherty is so far and away our best and smartest defender it's just not funny. We have the very experienced Daisy and Simmo acting as on field back line generals, and yet they cannot marshall the troops ? And for this Bolton should be sacked ? People seem to forget our zone was rock solid in 2016 and 2017 - people think Bolton is suffering amnesia ?
I don't have any allegiance to Bolton, I just think laying it all at the coach's feet is a cop out answer to our current predicament.
The zone was pretty far from solid in 2016 and 2017. If one player, Docherty, missing is all it takes for your defensive structure to fall apart then its a fair indicator that the system isn't particularly robust.
For whatever reason, it doesn't work. The coaches (not just Bolton but all of them) should have seen this already and adapted. But they haven't. It isn't just the backline with Daisy and Simmo though, the zone is a team defence - which is failing because as a team the playing group isn't implementing it.
So yes, that is the job of the coaches (again, not just Bolton). When one of two players continually get things wrong you can blame them. But when an entire playing group isn't running hard you have to look at the coaches. When disposal and skills are woeful across the board, you have to ask what the coaches are doing at training to develop them properly. And finally, when the opposition works out your game plan and thrashes you like this on a number of occasions, you have to question why we stuck with the same game plan each time.
....sails over wide mid on into the stand.
Sticking with the "plan" and expecting better results is insanity.
It tells you that we have figured out a pattern of ball movement to get the ball where we want it to be, which is a good thing. It also tells you that we haven't figured out the rest, which is an indication as I've said repeatedly, that we have a mountain of work to do.
No coach encourages the players to turn the ball over, no coach encourages players to allow their tackles to be broken, to miss easy set shots, to miss shots on the run etc.
Our malaise runs deeper than the coach, deeper than the supposed wussy captain, and certainly much deeper than a PP.
You actually.think he should hang around after that? That's where it starts and it now HIS responsibility for our skills. With drafting at least we have put an emphasis on recruiting players will the ability to kick. What happens when they come to Cartlon? Something to do with our plan, structure being so poor that we are continually kicking to outnumbered situations?
Coaching is most of it! Don't make excuses for him. That's excusing failure. You get nowhere doing that. Look at what's happening and the scoreboard. Winning inside 50s 61-54 and losing by 100pts is disgraceful. How does that happen.
My interpretation of the comentary and my own not-so-well-informed observations (of what I had the strength to actually watch) bring me to the conclusion that, whilst we lack forward 50 pressure and options atm and far too few precision entries, this reefs back to our poor midfield performance. This also results in excess pressure on the defence.
Our midfield is nowhere near good enough to push forward quickly due to poor skills that lead to punishing turnovers. We can win the ball alright (in large measure down to Cripps) but its what happens (or doesn't happen!) after that. This cripples us and constrains our ability to mount effective attacks on goal especially our poor F50 pressure because we have to stay further back in an attempt to cover the inevitable errors. Too many imes our F50 entries were just gifting the ball back to the Crows. To make it worse we could not cover the Adelaide spread and we did not tackle anywhere near effectively enough
There are probably plenty of other areas of problems but imo that is the major one. We had Lang, Mullet, Murphy, Kerridge, O'Brian, Wright and Ed Curnow (and some would argue others too) all pretty much ineffective last night - we were not surprisingly slaughtered. We just didn't come close to a competitive AFL grade collective midfield . Result - defence under seige again and tall forwards left just looking on for far too much of the time.
Just hopped on the HS website for the post mortem.
Tough article but fair.
"On a night when the disillusioned few in navy blue who attended were crying out for a four-quarter effort, they instead got surrender."
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/adelaide-thrashes-carlton-by-104-points-completing-blues-worst-season-in-117-years/news-story/0169255de74cf7476ac7a99ae36c1f7d
The comments section has been invaded by all the well-wishers of other clubs who are satisfied with our performance this year.
How can we expect to move the ball forward when we have 5 players anchored in the back 50 waiting for the switch all the time? That's nearly a third of our players sitting back while the opposition sets up across the ground to outnumber us everywhere else.
As for our defence, the way players just guard space is infuriating. So many times through the season, and especially last night, we saw our guys jog into the spot they've been told to occupy in team meetings only to stand by while the opposition runs harder through all the spaces, works the ball forward with ease and kicks to someone who has managed to 'sneak' back behind our last line of defence to take an easy mark or run onto a loose ball.
Our game plan is broken and our structures and systems don't work. We can bring in all the top end talent and draft picks we like but if we don't improve our skills, work rate and game plan in 2019 we're going nowhere. We have got to abandon the zone in 2019 to play some accountable 1 on 1 footy or at worst, drop just 1 player back loose behind play.
AGree with this. WTF did we continue with that zone defence? It was infuriating sitting up on level 3 watching the turnover occurring 3 kicks before it did. If i can see that as a member sitting up on level 3, what the f*** are that big group of coaches looking at and why are they not changing it??
I'm happy with the zone style because the coach is expecting them to learn how to play in a way that will win. One on one is for wet days and the bottom leagues. Watch a division one game in local leagues; they play zone.
Its the turnovers that are killing us. We won the inside 50s, which shows we are winning the ball and getting it forward. We then break down and it comes back and we are struggling to get back to position. Playing one one one is not going to improve us much.
One a few occasions this year our approach has worked and we score. Fast ball movement via accurate kicking is very hard to defend. But it requires great skills and being organised and we are struggling to meet these levels.
The coach has high expectations. Good.
Also I saw plenty of players in our midfield standing back letting Cripps only go in to get the hard ball. I actually recall one bit of play, I think it was Lang or Mullett, standing there as a bystander when Cripps came from elsewhere and got in there. Not good enough, to allow Cripps to do the hard yards every single time.
As an aside, thought Marchy was okay.
The zone was pretty far from solid in 2016 and 2017. If one player, Docherty, missing is all it takes for your defensive structure to fall apart then its a fair indicator that the system isn't particularly robust.
For whatever reason, it doesn't work. The coaches (not just Bolton but all of them) should have seen this already and adapted. But they haven't. It isn't just the backline with Daisy and Simmo though, the zone is a team defence - which is failing because as a team the playing group isn't implementing it.
So yes, that is the job of the coaches (again, not just Bolton). When one of two players continually get things wrong you can blame them. But when an entire playing group isn't running hard you have to look at the coaches. When disposal and skills are woeful across the board, you have to ask what the coaches are doing at training to develop them properly. And finally, when the opposition works out your game plan and thrashes you like this on a number of occasions, you have to question why we stuck with the same game plan each time.
How many coaches do we have to burn before the penny drops ? We've had rookie coaches, experienced coaches, soft coaches, tough old school coaches, yet we are where we are.
We don't have the depth to cover the loss of someone like Doc. Same goes for Cripps. And yet this is the coaches fault ?
Tha coach doesn't just inherit a list. He inherits an entire club, an entire culture. And turning around a culture like ours is a massive club wide undertaking. I'm not suggesting Bolton is blameless, not am I suggesting he's beyond criticism.
I'm happy with the zone style because the coach is expecting them to learn how to play in a way that will win. One on one is for wet days and the bottom leagues. Watch a division one game in local leagues; they play zone.
Its the turnovers that are killing us. We won the inside 50s, which shows we are winning the ball and getting it forward. We then break down and it comes back and we are struggling to get back to position. Playing one one one is not going to improve us much.
One a few occasions this year our approach has worked and we score. Fast ball movement via accurate kicking is very hard to defend. But it requires great skills and being organised and we are struggling to meet these levels.
The coach has high expectations. Good.
The mystery though is this - if in moving the ball forward we have nobody to kick it to, how is it we're struggling to get back in position when the ball rebounds? Everybody should already have been back.
Better still, how do the opposition get through our backline and stream towards goal in greater numbers? Our players aren't forward as attacking options and they're not back guarding the defensive 50.
Where exactly are 18 guys wearing navy blue on the field???
My answer (and in agreement with a few other posts) is that our midfield just jogs around setting up the zone. I'll accept Cripps at times running a bit slow as the guy must be stuffed from everything else he does. But the rest of the mids have got to run both ways much, much harder otherwise it just exposes our defenders and leaves our forwards outnumbered.
Either our players aren't ready for the zone yet or the coaches haven't developed an effective one. Either way, we can't stick with it.
Tim Clarke chopped. More to follow?
BB has about 6-8 games next season to show some real improvement (as reflected by number of wins) otherwise he'll be pushed imo.
Sure, we'l get players back etc etc but so many times this year the lack of effort from so many does suggest the players don't get whatever BB's message is.... the school teacher mantra only goes so far.
God, I trust SOS weaves some magic....
How many coaches do we have to burn before the penny drops ? We've had rookie coaches, experienced coaches, soft coaches, tough old school coaches, yet we are where we are.
We don't have the depth to cover the loss of someone like Doc. Same goes for Cripps. And yet this is the coaches fault ?
Tha coach doesn't just inherit a list. He inherits an entire club, an entire culture. And turning around a culture like ours is a massive club wide undertaking. I'm not suggesting Bolton is blameless, not am I suggesting he's beyond criticism.
When an entire system breaks down, yes it is the coaches that need to be looked at because they are accountable for the entirety of the team's performance. And not just Bolton - all of them.
That doesn't mean sack Bolton - I understand the need for some stability and what you're saying. But there definitely need to be some changes in his support crew and a different game plan in 2019. As some first changes, replace those responsible for skills development, the midfield and fitness. Because whatever they're doing just isn't getting results.
After 2 wins in season and multiple 10 goal thrashings we can't bury our heads in the sand and say everything would have worked out if we just had one player. Docherty is good - but he alone wouldn't have prevented this shipwreck.
Tim Clarke chopped. More to follow?
BB has about 6-8 games next season to show some real improvement (as reflected by number of wins) otherwise he'll be pushed imo.
Sure, we'l get players back etc etc but so many times this year the lack of effort from so many does suggest the players don't get whatever BB's message is.... the school teacher mantra only goes so far.
God, I trust SOS weaves some magic....
Good. As per my last post, this had to happen.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-08-25/clarke-departs
Hopefully making way for Sam Mitchell to take up the position
Good. As per my last post, this had to happen.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-08-25/clarke-departs
Hopefully making way for Sam Mitchell to take up the position
Or Ratts
Or Ratts
Could he really come back in any role less than head coach?
I like Ratts and think he would be great in the job, but it might be a little too destabilising to have him as midfield coach at the moment.
Could he really come back in any role less than head coach?
I like Ratts and think he would be great in the job, but it might be a little too destabilising to have him as midfield coach at the moment.
Won't be too many Ratts old contempories left at the club next year I would think?
When an entire system breaks down, yes it is the coaches that need to be looked at because they are accountable for the entirety of the team's performance. And not just Bolton - all of them.
That doesn't mean sack Bolton - I understand the need for some stability and what you're saying. But there definitely need to be some changes in his support crew and a different game plan in 2019. As some first changes, replace those responsible for skills development, the midfield and fitness. Because whatever they're doing just isn't getting results.
After 2 wins in season and multiple 10 goal thrashings we can't bury our heads in the sand and say everything would have worked out if we just had one player. Docherty is good - but he alone wouldn't have prevented this shipwreck.
We are not an AFL freak show, or an AFL outlier. Every single AFL team plays a zone, cluster, web, whatever you want to call it. Conceptually they make sense. These structures can be implemented to varying degrees, different parts of the ground etc. They are all starting positions only. The game has a dynamic component, and players continuously change from one mode to another. Maybe there needs to be an adjustment to the way we implement our zone, but I think by far the biggest problem is that we turn the ball over so often, the players simply can't settle, and have to adjust and readjust far too often, and are therefore out of position too often. That coupled with inexperience, injury etc., is a recipe for disaster and as far as fans are concerned, a recipe for class unrest.
................
After 2 wins in season and multiple 10 goal thrashings we can't bury our heads in the sand and say everything would have worked out if we just had one player. Docherty is good - but he alone wouldn't have prevented this shipwreck.
In a better world I agree. One player shouldn't make that much difference. But our team isn't in that better world yet. We've seen it with Judd, we see it with Cripps, and we should also see it with Doc. At least I do. We are still far too reliant on the top 4 or 5 players.
I'm happy with the zone style because the coach is expecting them to learn how to play in a way that will win. One on one is for wet days and the bottom leagues. Watch a division one game in local leagues; they play zone.
I can't speak for everyone, but i've got no problem with the coach implementing a zone style of play. As you say, its the norm.
However, when the team is so obviously bad, there needs to be a circuit breaker of sorts. Players need to be reminded that they can in fact play the game. The quickest and easiest way to do that mid-game is to switch to man on man. A large part of coaching is player management, both in terms of physically and mentally. The players look fed up and tired. Give them a break and let them just run around and play.
From the get go, it was anticipated that Year 3 of the rebuild would not be great, given the demographic gap in our list and our commitment to hit 3 drafts with vigour.
That prediction was prior to the Gibbs move or the Docherty injury.
I still think (hope) that the powers know exactly where we stand and have the right blueprint for the next 2 years. I just hope our attractiveness to potential free agents etc has not been deminiished over Season 2018.
I can't speak for everyone, but i've got no problem with the coach implementing a zone style of play. As you say, its the norm.
However, when the team is so obviously bad, there needs to be a circuit breaker of sorts. Players need to be reminded that they can in fact play the game. The quickest and easiest way to do that mid-game is to switch to man on man. A large part of coaching is player management, both in terms of physically and mentally. The players look fed up and tired. Give them a break and let them just run around and play.
I'm sure Bolton has thought of that and has been tempted to go down that path. He seems to be pretty uncompromising, and is riding the kids pretty hard. I really don't know if that's a good thing or not.
I'm happy with the zone style because the coach is expecting them to learn how to play in a way that will win. One on one is for wet days and the bottom leagues. Watch a division one game in local leagues; they play zone.
Its the turnovers that are killing us. We won the inside 50s, which shows we are winning the ball and getting it forward. We then break down and it comes back and we are struggling to get back to position. Playing one one one is not going to improve us much.
One a few occasions this year our approach has worked and we score. Fast ball movement via accurate kicking is very hard to defend. But it requires great skills and being organised and we are struggling to meet these levels.
The coach has high expectations. Good.
Glad someone else can see it and said it well.
If we need a matchday coach let’s get one, but I’m not totally convinced that it’s a game day coaching issue.
We are not an AFL freak show, or an AFL outlier. Every single AFL team plays a zone, cluster, web, whatever you want to call it. Conceptually they make sense. These structures can be implemented to varying degrees, different parts of the ground etc. They are all starting positions only. The game has a dynamic component, and players continuously change from one mode to another. Maybe there needs to be an adjustment to the way we implement our zone, but I think by far the biggest problem is that we turn the ball over so often, the players simply can't settle, and have to adjust and readjust far too often, and are therefore out of position too often. That coupled with inexperience, injury etc., is a recipe for disaster and as far as fans are concerned, a recipe for class unrest.
Paul, Other teams man up properly and pay special attention to the opposition best players...we let the best opposition players run around on their own and hope some useless zone will repel them.
We are not an AFL freak show, or an AFL outlier. Every single AFL team plays a zone, cluster, web, whatever you want to call it. Conceptually they make sense. These structures can be implemented to varying degrees, different parts of the ground etc. They are all starting positions only. The game has a dynamic component, and players continuously change from one mode to another. Maybe there needs to be an adjustment to the way we implement our zone, but I think by far the biggest problem is that we turn the ball over so often, the players simply can't settle, and have to adjust and readjust far too often, and are therefore out of position too often. That coupled with inexperience, injury etc., is a recipe for disaster and as far as fans are concerned, a recipe for class unrest.
No man, it’s just the coach... ????
Paul, Other teams man up properly and pay special attention to the opposition best players...we let the best opposition players run around on their own and hope some useless zone will repel them.
Yes I know, I see it as well. It's not something that Bolton has missed - of this I am quite sure. I'm sure his instructions are not to let opposition players roam around and do as they please. Something is clearly broken somewhere - youth, injury, coach, skill level, on field leadership, take your pick. My guess is there are multiple fractures.
I can't speak for everyone, but i've got no problem with the coach implementing a zone style of play. As you say, its the norm.
However, when the team is so obviously bad, there needs to be a circuit breaker of sorts. Players need to be reminded that they can in fact play the game. The quickest and easiest way to do that mid-game is to switch to man on man. A large part of coaching is player management, both in terms of physically and mentally. The players look fed up and tired. Give them a break and let them just run around and play.
I have a problem with our brand of zone and its implementation.
Our players seem to have been drilled into thinking that guarding their patch is more important than stopping the opposition getting the ball. We are unbelievably slow to close the gaps in the zone as the ball moves or put pressure on an opposition player who strolls into those gaps that its beyond tragic.
I completely agree that some sort of team defence will have to be the future but you are 110% correct that for now we do need to play more man on man football to let our young players learn how to play contested footy. If nothing else, they will at least learn from the opposition's better players as they try to keep up with them.
I never had high hopes for 2018 and with or without Doc we were destined for a bottom 3 finish. I but wanted to at least see players developing, showing some Carlton spirit and going down fighting. Instead, we've been served up with deplorable, gutless capitulations.
I actually admire Brisbane for their rebuild because they're doing what I'm talking about - sure they're losing too and languishing at the bottom with us. But they've shown a willingness to fight and work. We haven't.
I have a problem with our brand of zone and its implementation.
Our players seem to have been drilled into thinking that guarding their patch is more important than stopping the opposition getting the ball. We are unbelievably slow to close the gaps in the zone as the ball moves or put pressure on an opposition player who strolls into those gaps that its beyond tragic.
I completely agree that some sort of team defence will have to be the future but you are 110% correct that for now we do need to play more man on man football to let our young players learn how to play contested footy. If nothing else, they will at least learn from the opposition's better players as they try to keep up with them.
I never had high hopes for 2018 and with or without Doc we were destined for a bottom 3 finish. I but wanted to at least see players developing, showing some Carlton spirit and going down fighting. Instead, we've been served up with deplorable, gutless capitulations.
I actually admire Brisbane for their rebuild because they're doing what I'm talking about - sure they're losing too and languishing at the bottom with us. But they've shown a willingness to fight and work. We haven't.
Personally, I have no issue with man on man footy, as I would also like a bit of relief and would like to enjoy more even contests. Just be aware that this is a short term, stop gap measure only, and will simply delay the painful learning that has to occur.
Well you know my opinion of Lang and Mullet.... Both gutless seagulls who should be culled.
Well you know my opinion of Lang and Mullet.... Both gutless seagulls who should be culled.
When SOS commented that he really liked the way Lang went about it... silly me, I thought he meant football, not tiddly winks. What was I thinking ::) ;D
Cam Polson. 15 disposals, 7 tackles, 2 goals, 89 DT points.....Rising Star nomination???
When SOS commented that he really liked the way Lang went about it... silly me, I thought he meant football, not tiddly winks. What was I thinking ::) ;D
You know his year was savaged early on with injury. Played good footy for the Cats. Need to see a bloke fit before making judgement.
Glad someone else can see it and said it well.
If we need a matchday coach let’s get one, but I’m not totally convinced that it’s a game day coaching issue.
After 3 years we can see the 2 wins. I exoected something alot better than that. You have a poor coach and you're going nowhere. We're just a total rabble, like back in the Pagan days. We saw how that changed when he left.
You know his year was savaged early on with injury. Played good footy for the Cats. Need to see a bloke fit before making judgement.
In BBs own words, we only play blokes who are in form. So that's what he gets judged on... if you take the field you're declaring you're ready. A bloke called Nick Graham would gladly have taken his place. We've got to stop making excuses and apologies for our coaches, recruiting and players.
In BBs own words, we only play blokes who are in form. So that's what he gets judged on... if you take the field you're declaring you're ready. A bloke called Nick Graham would gladly have taken his place. We've got to stop making excuses and apologies for our coaches, recruiting and players.
To be fair to BB, that went out the window as our injury list expanded.
We played the best of what's left. (And Polson :) )
After 3 years we can see the 2 wins. I exoected something alot better than that. You have a poor coach and you're going nowhere. We're just a total rabble, like back in the Pagan days. We saw how that changed when he left.
Jim, you were one of us who was reasonably satisfied with the first two seasons, then we lost Doc and Gibbs.
In spite of that we were competitive in large parts and exciting in our season start before injuries destroyed our structure.
We all wanted more wins, but sometimes it just doesn’t happen and frankly I’m disappointed that someone with possibly more coaching credentials than anyone here is so quick to want to send the coach off to the guillotine.
He may need more help, if so let’s get it, but let’s learn from the Ratten days.
Coaching very average tonight Jim...Laird allowed to sit off the play on his own and rack up the possies.....coaching box needs a shakeup..
Tim Clarke wont be there next year. So that one gone. Mitchel/Ratten to replace him???
Tim Clarke wont be there next year. So that one gone. Mitchel/Ratten to replace him???
Move some others on and take both. Though having Ratten in a senior role may be a little destabilising. We risk having our own version of the liberal party power struggle over the top job.
Tim Clarke wont be there next year. So that one gone. Mitchel/Ratten to replace him???
Presume Mitchell would get a job with us via the Bolton connection but thats if he doesnt want back to the Hawks.....
Dont see Bolton wanting Ratten breathing down his neck, thats a lot of extra pressure and while he is a inexperienced matchday coach he knows that Rattens presence
would mean a ready made replacement is on hand to take his job any day they want to fire the gun......
Presume Mitchell would get a job with us via the Bolton connection but thats if he doesnt want back to the Hawks.....
Dont see Bolton wanting Ratten breathing down his neck, thats a lot of extra pressure and while he is a inexperienced matchday coach he knows that Rattens presence
would mean a ready made replacement is on hand to take his job any day they want to fire the gun......
Quite apart from that, I can't see Ratts taking an assistant's gig, unless it was somewhere like the Tigers, or unless he's got no choice. And given what happened last time, I can't see him coming back to us, and certainly not as 2IC
Quite apart from that, I can't see Ratts taking an assistant's gig, unless it was somewhere like the Tigers, or unless he's got no choice. And given what happened last time, I can't see him coming back to us, and certainly not as 2IC
He might come back if MLG says the job is yours in 12 months time if we are bottom 4........although Ratten would seem an ideal fit for Stkilda who are a failed rebuild and need to start again...
He might come back if MLG says the job is yours in 12 months time if we are bottom 4........although Ratten would seem an ideal fit for Stkilda who are a failed rebuild and need to start again...
Do you think there's any bad blood between SOS and Ratten over the salary cap shenanigans ?
Do you think there's any bad blood between SOS and Ratten over the salary cap shenanigans ?
If either of them can't move on neither of them should be at the club.
At some point, it becomes a footnote in history and the focus needs to be forwards not backwards accepting the past occurred.
If either of them can't move on neither of them should be at the club.
At some point, it becomes a footnote in history and the focus needs to be forwards not backwards accepting the past occurred.
Well, you and I both know that human nature is not always quite so benevolent. If SOS, Bradley etc were getting extra money under the table, and the other players didn't know, isn't this basically deceiving your team mates ? I have no idea how it all transpired, but what I outline is certainly one possibility.
Do you think there's any bad blood between SOS and Ratten over the salary cap shenanigans ?
Not sure on that and as Thry said you expect all parties to have moved on...this issue of SOS having so much power..perceived or otherwise might be a problem though.....
Not sure on that and as Thry said you expect all parties to have moved on...this issue of SOS having so much power..perceived or otherwise might be a problem though.....
Thanks.
Not sure on that and as Thry said you expect all parties to have moved on...this issue of SOS having so much power..perceived or otherwise might be a problem though.....
I think they would be fine.
They both wouldn’t have much time for Kernahan
Well, you and I both know that human nature is not always quite so benevolent. If SOS, Bradley etc were getting extra money under the table, and the other players didn't know, isn't this basically deceiving your team mates ? I have no idea how it all transpired, but what I outline is certainly one possibility.
I'll give you another one... ;D
Of all the stars of the 1990-2000 Carlton sides is it really logical to believe that only about half a dozen were considered worthy of money offered outside the declared salary cap.
That's even harder to swallow when you see some of the names that were in the 'public domain' as receiving under the table payments
I'll give you another one... ;D
Of all the stars of the 1990-2000 Carlton sides is it really logical to believe that only about half a dozen were considered worthy of money offered outside the declared salary cap.
That's even harder to swallow when you see some of the names that were in the 'public domain' as receiving under the table payments
I only know of 5 names related to the cap saga - the 4 that came forward, plus Matthew Allan. Look, I'm aware that maybe they were al in on it, including Ratten. One day we might know the truth.
In fact, I'm surprised that someone hasn't already blamed our new wooden spoon on the cap penalties. It seems to be a good scapegoat.
In fact, I'm surprised that someone hasn't already blamed our new wooden spoon on the cap penalties. It seems to be a good scapegoat.
Not the penalties as such but much of the disaster of the last 15 years is attributable to the Elliott and then Pratt years, the attitude that we could buy success took an awful lot of killing.
Not the penalties as such but much of the disaster of the last 15 years is attributable to the Elliott and then Pratt years, the attitude that we could buy success took an awful lot of killing.
No doubt.
Not the penalties as such but much of the disaster of the last 15 years is attributable to the Elliott and then Pratt years, the attitude that we could buy success took an awful lot of killing.
I don’t think Kernahan provided a lot of insight into how things should be done either
Not the penalties as such but much of the disaster of the last 15 years is attributable to the Elliott and then Pratt years, the attitude that we could buy success took an awful lot of killing.
The rebuild we are now in is the first recognition by the club that we need to move into the modern era. Prior to that I don't think the club had even realised that there was a modern era. We have still got a lot of lost ground to make up.
I don’t think Kernahan provided a lot of insight into how things should be done either
Sticks should neve have been President....though arguably he was really just Dick Pratt's front man...
Maybe I missed it elsewhere but has there been an update on Charlie's knee? hate to think he has done something serious.
Bolton said they thought it was a medial ligament, and not too bad
Hopefully that is all it is. thanks.
Looked like Charlie copped an opponents knee to the outside of his knee while having his ankle was trapped under the opponents foot!
I have a problem with our brand of zone and its implementation.
Our players seem to have been drilled into thinking that guarding their patch is more important than stopping the opposition getting the ball. We are unbelievably slow to close the gaps in the zone as the ball moves or put pressure on an opposition player who strolls into those gaps that its beyond tragic.
I completely agree that some sort of team defence will have to be the future but you are 110% correct that for now we do need to play more man on man football to let our young players learn how to play contested footy. If nothing else, they will at least learn from the opposition's better players as they try to keep up with them.
I never had high hopes for 2018 and with or without Doc we were destined for a bottom 3 finish. I but wanted to at least see players developing, showing some Carlton spirit and going down fighting. Instead, we've been served up with deplorable, gutless capitulations.
I actually admire Brisbane for their rebuild because they're doing what I'm talking about - sure they're losing too and languishing at the bottom with us. But they've shown a willingness to fight and work. We haven't.
Brisbane's rebuild is us of last year where we won 6 but led u times in ladgvqtrs and lost. We made life bloody hard, even miserable, for every side we played. Bssed on that we should get 10-11 wins next year. That's an expectancy. Bet we don't.
Jim, you were one of us who was reasonably satisfied with the first two seasons, then we lost Doc and Gibbs.
In spite of that we were competitive in large parts and exciting in our season start before injuries destroyed our structure.
We all wanted more wins, but sometimes it just doesn’t happen and frankly I’m disappointed that someone with possibly more coaching credentials than anyone here is so quick to want to send the coach off to the guillotine.
He may need more help, if so let’s get it, but let’s learn from the Ratten days.
Excuses! Not interested in last year.
2 wins, no structure, poorly drilled, poor game plan. That's not injuries. That side we had playing on the weekend alone is alot better than 2 wins, 3 x 100pt defeats, including by a side with 16 men. We are so poorly drilled we couldn't handle and were outnumbered by a side with 16 thstbfound so much space and kicked goals at will. We were smashed by apoor sides by 10 goals. That's coaching! Then there's the lack of effort so often, meaning a lack of respect for the coach. None of the above is injury related. No amount of spin will change that.
Presume Mitchell would get a job with us via the Bolton connection but thats if he doesnt want back to the Hawks.....
Dont see Bolton wanting Ratten breathing down his neck, thats a lot of extra pressure and while he is a inexperienced matchday coach he knows that Rattens presence
would mean a ready made replacement is on hand to take his job any day they want to fire the gun......
Not sure why we would persist with Bolton, who's been nothing short of pathetic this year, when Ratten is available. Ratten is the only one to drag us from a basket case to a good side and did it the next year with Finals the year after. Near every year around that has terrible. Malthouse got us to finals on the back of Ratten's team them we fell apart, not unlike the way 3yrs under Bolton has. Only an idiot would go with Bolts when Ratten is available.
Love to see Ratten with a good young team and work with SOS rather than half a list if crap, top half good though, he had when stuck with Wayne Hughes.
Not sure why we would persist with Bolton, who's been nothing short of pathetic this year, when Ratten is available. Ratten is the only one to drag us from a basket case to a good side and did it the next year with Finals the year after. Near every year around that has terrible. Malthouse got us to finals on the back of Ratten's team them we fell apart, not unlike the way 3yrs under Bolton has. Only an idiot would go with Bolts when Ratten is available.
Love to see Ratten with a good young team and work with SOS rather than half a list if crap, top half good though, he had when stuck with Wayne Hughes.
Think Bolton will get the boot when they start coming for MLG and SOS but not before....he would be sacrificed to save them but I dont see the club changing coaches for at least 12 months.
The footy world is fairly united in the opinion that Bolton is still the man for the job and that the job has been larger and more difficult than first anticipated and that cuts him some slack for another 12 months IMO....and who would want the job?..My money is still on Ross Lyon as Freo fans are not warming to him much at the moment either and Ross likes to cut and run and Ross has three friends now in power at the club now that Lloyd has joined us. Lyon has also been very kind in his words for our club and is just leaving his options open IMO..
Sticks should neve have been President....though arguably he was really just Dick Pratt's front man...
Personally Sticks made little difference either way, and Pratt fell ill before he could really get things going!
Our problem was this;
Before FitzpatrickAllen Aylett (1977–1983)
Jack Hamilton (1983–1986)
Ross Oakley (1986–1993)
John Kennedy, Sr. (1993–1997)
Ron Evans AM (1997–2007)
and
Ross Oakley (1986–1996)
Wayne Jackson (1996–2003)
Andrew Demetriou (2003–2014)
All acted as boosters for their preferred club.
Fitzpatrick (2007–2017)Carlton favoritism and benefits = Squat!
Post FitzpatrickRichard Goyder (2017-)
and
Gillon McLachlan (2014–)
Straight back into bat for their favourites without a sign of shame!
Excuses! Not interested in last year.
2 wins, no structure, poorly drilled, poor game plan. That's not injuries. That side we had playing on the weekend alone is alot better than 2 wins, 3 x 100pt defeats, including by a side with 16 men. We are so poorly drilled we couldn't handle and were outnumbered by a side with 16 thstbfound so much space and kicked goals at will. We were smashed by apoor sides by 10 goals. That's coaching! Then there's the lack of effort so often, meaning a lack of respect for the coach. None of the above is injury related. No amount of spin will change that.
It’s not excuses, it’s observation.
Sometimes you just have to suck it up no matter how bad it tastes.
Sack the coach now and you’ll be torching 1/2 the list and starting again... how long do you want the pain to go on for ?
It’s not excuses, it’s observation.
Sometimes you just have to suck it up no matter how bad it tastes.
Sack the coach now and you’ll be torching 1/2 the list and starting again... how long do you want the pain to go on for ?
It's a poor excuse for 2 wins. Alright excuse for 6 wins. Given we won 6 last year and led 7 times in last qtrs and lost you expect 10 wins this year. With injuries that isn't happening but 6 should. Even the side we put out there last week is good enough for that. But we got 2 wins, a lot of totally poor effort, no structure, poor game plan and confused players. That part isn't injuries. That's just piss weak. The coach is poor and with thrashings by bottom sides, 3 x 100pt defeats, one to a side that smashed us with 16 men in a qtr and poor efforts what the hell do you put that down too. If that's your observation prepare for severe disappointment. 2 wins!
I have to agree that the game plan is poor - or non existent and that the players are not getting it! >:( >:(
We really do need some new blood/fresh ideas on the coaching panel, especially come match day.
I'm not for culling BB - but the results certainly need to flow pretty quickly in 2019 or he will be goneski. And rightly so.
I have to agree that the game plan is poor - or non existent and that the players are not getting it! >:( >:(
We really do need some new blood/fresh ideas on the coaching panel, especially come match day.
I'm not for culling BB - but the results certainly need to flow pretty quickly in 2019 or he will be goneski. And rightly so.
Our efforts have been abject overall save for a few players who have been trying their guts out to no avail. We just have too many who did not seem to want to put in or who had no idea of their role or what was expected of them. This state of affairs just cannot continue. Something has to change, change big time and pdq! BB must focus on winning some games in the early part of next year or the pitchforks will be dusted off for sure. It will be fascinating to see how matters unfold.
Bolton should be subject to a ruthless end of season review to justify his position ... brutal, but needed nonetheless
Yes, must be told specific areas to improve in, which then become non negotiable KPIs for reappointment. Reading the critiques of his match day coaching in this forum provides a starting point of some issues to address.
Bolton should be subject to a ruthless end of season review to justify his position ... brutal, but needed nonetheless
Not just Bolton - the entire club. We need to get the mob that did the Pies and Tigers audits in the last couple of years. Given the turn around in those two clubs, that company seems to know what they're doing.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-27/by-the-numbers-inefficient-blues-blow-it
CARLTON'S triple-digit defeat to Adelaide on Saturday night will go down as one of the most woefully inefficient performances since the turn of the century.
The Blues' third loss of the season by more than 100 points came despite them winning inside 50s (61-54), clearances (37-30), contested possessions (144-128) and hit-outs (36-34).
The Blues were the only team this year to win the inside 50s and lose by 100 points and also to win contested possessions and suffer a triple-digit defeat, as well as becoming the second to win clearances and lose by that margin.
Carlton was also the first team in 90 matches since 2002 to go down by 100 points or more despite having an inside 50 advantage.
The last time a side lost by at least 100 points but won the inside 50s was coincidentally the Crows in round four, 2000, when West Coast beat them by 114 points but had five fewer inside 50s.
"It's disappointing," Bolton said after the 104-point hiding at Adelaide's hands.
"We win the inside 50s, funnily enough, in a big loss. Clearly, there's some issues with efficiency.
"We turned the ball over far too much – some ordinary decisions. We've got a lot of work to do in that space."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-27/by-the-numbers-inefficient-blues-blow-it
Winning the clearances and the CP's is basically down to Cripps. Winning the I50's is an indication that however clumsily or haphazardly, the ball is getting to where we need it to be. It's not as if we're trapped in our back half the whole game. But that's where it ends IMO. Just too many skill errors, turnovers, bad decision making, lack of pressure etc.
The Crows scored 13 goals from stoppages. That's terrible. Little wonder Clarke was shown the door.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-27/by-the-numbers-inefficient-blues-blow-it
Anyone with a modicum of intellect, a fraction of interest in football and had watched even one Carlton game could tell you our ball use is deplorable. If they had watched us over several years they would be able to tell you it hadn't improved despite changing three senior coaches!
It's bizarre that professional sports journalists write such stories like they are a revelation!
Also note this week, Caro and her band of merry followers are beating the pavement offer all Carlton fans and the AFL their considerable advice on why our club has blown the rebuild! SOS and The Judge are clearly the target of this vitriol, it must be a slow news week or there is something requiring a distraction like a Nthmond or Pies player on the dope!
Winning the clearances and the CP's is basically down to Cripps. Winning the I50's is an indication that however clumsily or haphazardly, the ball is getting to where we need it to be. It's not as if we're trapped in our back half the whole game. But that's where it ends IMO. Just too many skill errors, turnovers, bad decision making, lack of pressure etc.
The Crows scored 13 goals from stoppages. That's terrible. Little wonder Clarke was shown the door.
But the quality of the I50 is exactly the problem.....they are garbage, no system no plan, no structure.
But the quality of the I50 is exactly the problem.....they are garbage, no system no plan, no structure.
Maybe it's the quality of the system/structure? ::)
Anyone with a modicum of intellect, a fraction of interest in football and had watched even one Carlton game could tell you our ball use is deplorable. If they had watched us over several years they would be able to tell you it hadn't improved despite changing three senior coaches!
.................
In terms of this particular game, 13 opposition goals from clearances tells me it's more than just ball use and movement.
IMO, we saved our worst performance for last, and clearly, the season that was a death by a thousand cuts reached its nadir.
But the quality of the I50 is exactly the problem.....they are garbage, no system no plan, no structure.
No doubt it's an issue, but it's a team wide issue. Not either the ball deliverer or ball receiver. They're both culpable at various times. I think people automatically assume the mids delivery is crap and the forwards are blameless. I think it's more complicated than that.
No doubt it's an issue, but it's a team wide issue. Not either the ball deliverer or ball receiver. They're both culpable at various times. I think people automatically assume the mids delivery is crap and the forwards are blameless. I think it's more complicated than that.
Indeed.
[1] Our forwards rarely lead. They don't because nobody kicks it to them on the lead. However, nobody lowers their eyes if nobody leads.
[2] Our small forwards don't get crumbs and don't keep pressure on the opposition, so the ball comes out too easily.
[3] Our forwards don't make room for each other, so there is little space for any of them to move into.
[4] We move the ball very slowly, so there is usually a mismatch as to numbers and not in our favour.
[5] Our skills are poor, so we often turn the ball over, and get caught out on the fast rebound.
[6] Our small forward in particular appear to be very slow.
I did notice in the last game that TDK was often in the same area as McKay, and not really impacting the contest much.
I think McKay and Curnow had started working well together inside 50, after getting playing time together in the back half of the season.
No knock on TDK... it will just take time to integrate effectively, and probably a bit longer because there are 3 guys to be aware of each other, rather than 2.
I also think such an unsettled line-up this year (form and injuries) means that it again takes longer for players to learn each others game.
Hopefully next year we will have a 22 that is regularly available and playing together. That will give us the 'synergy' that Bolts is always talking about.
Nice post tfib.
No doubt it's an issue, but it's a team wide issue. Not either the ball deliverer or ball receiver. They're both culpable at various times. I think people automatically assume the mids delivery is crap and the forwards are blameless. I think it's more complicated than that.
Not at all. The movement out of the backline - whether that the FB or the HBF line is terrible. That's the start of it....though there have been patches when we have moved it quickly.
Other than skill, the game today is all about speed.... if you don't use it quickly, you're stuffed....
Not at all. The movement out of the backline - whether that the FB or the HBF line is terrible. That's the start of it....though there have been patches when we have moved it quickly.
Other than skill, the game today is all about speed.... if you don't use it quickly, you're stuffed....
The two are related. Moving the ball at speed without a turnover requires great skill and coordination between team mates. We've tried many times this season to move the ball quickly, but the required skill and coordination on game day simply isn't there.
You can bet London to a brick that the players complete ball movement drills beautifully at training.
Not at all. The movement out of the backline - whether that the FB or the HBF line is terrible. That's the start of it....though there have been patches when we have moved it quickly.
Other than skill, the game today is all about speed.... if you don't use it quickly, you're stuffed....
We try use the corridor a lot and get burnt on the turnover.
I don't think it's fair to blame an under siege backline.
We try use the corridor a lot and get burnt on the turnover.
I don't think it's fair to blame an under siege backline.
Sorry, I wasn't blaming them any more than the mids and sure, when the turnovers occur in midfield, the defence has no chance!
We try use the corridor a lot and get burnt on the turnover.
I don't think it's fair to blame an under siege backline.
Can't blame them for the way the footy enters, the lack of numbers, or for being outnumbered.
But there are a couple of recidivist types on our HBF who make sure often when they exit D50 the pill comes back at high velocity with gravy on it! ;)
Sorry, I wasn't blaming them any more than the mids and sure, when the turnovers occur in midfield, the defence has no chance!
They have no chance if they have charged off up the field only to kick it straight to an unmarked opponent for a rebound! :o
When a defender offloads the ball, the only thing he should worry about is that it isn't coming straight back! ;)
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-17/im-embarrassed-says-roos
I've posted this before, but I think it's a timely reminder of how far we have to go. IMO, we are where the Dees were at the end of 2014. And Bolton's words would almost be a carbon copy of Roos'.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-17/im-embarrassed-says-roos
I've posted this before, but I think it's a timely reminder of how far we have to go. IMO, we are where the Dees were at the end of 2014. And Bolton's words would almost be a carbon copy of Roos'.
Not a valid comparison - they didn't have the level of injuries we had this year - Docherty especially - and they won't be making the acquisitions we will....
Not a valid comparison - they didn't have the level of injuries we had this year - Docherty especially - and they won't be making the acquisitions we will....
Did you watch the whole video ?
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-08-17/im-embarrassed-says-roos
I've posted this before, but I think it's a timely reminder of how far we have to go. IMO, we are where the Dees were at the end of 2014. And Bolton's words would almost be a carbon copy of Roos'.
Melbourne win 10 games in Roos 3rd year of his rebuild. After last year that's where I thought we would be at given that while we won 6 games we led 7 times in last qtrs and lost. I'd been happy with 6 given our injuries but more importantly, see things like a better structure and game plan. Like to have seen much quicker and better movement of the ball to set up our two very good young key forwards. If I saw that then I believe we were on the right path. Saw something that wasn't even close, outside of round 1, which was exciting.
Melbourne win 10 games in Roos 3rd year of his rebuild. After last year that's where I thought we would be at given that while we won 6 games we led 7 times in last qtrs and lost. I'd been happy with 6 given our injuries but more importantly, see things like a better structure and game plan. Like to have seen much quicker and better movement of the ball to set up our two very good young key forwards. If I saw that then I believe we were on the right path. Saw something that wasn't even close, outside of round 1, which was exciting.
In 1903 Melbourne won the first 3 games of the year, then lost two before winning 9 of their last 13 on their way to winning the 1956 premiership, so that’s how we SHOULD be progressing too !
I don’t care how many injuries we have, I WANT TO WIN/LOSS OF 50.7% MINIMUM !!!
Anything else is unacceptable !!!
Jim, where you or I “thought” we’d be or how many W/L we’d have is irrelevant, sadly.
In 1903 Melbourne won the first 3 games of the year, then lost two before winning 9 of their last 13 on their way to winning the 1956 premiership, so that’s how we SHOULD be progressing too !
I don’t care how many injuries we have, I WANT TO WIN/LOSS OF 50.7% MINIMUM !!!
Anything else is unacceptable !!!
Jim, where you or I “thought” we’d be or how many W/L we’d have is irrelevant, sadly.
I answered this one half pissed in Alicante and totally misread the post. So I deleted what I wrote...lol!!!
Moral of the story, never drink and post, you might spill your drink not concentrating......haha.
Can't blame them for the way the footy enters, the lack of numbers, or for being outnumbered.
But there are a couple of recidivist types on our HBF who make sure often when they exit D50 the pill comes back at high velocity with gravy on it! ;)
I think they get into panic mode and then just launch it at whichever target they see first, and often miss what they were aiming for anyway.
They have no chance if they have charged off up the field only to kick it straight to an unmarked opponent for a rebound! :o
When a defender offloads the ball, the only thing he should worry about is that it isn't coming straight back! ;)
Its hard. ive seen us try to create so much off half back, only to stuff up the forward entry and then cop it on the rebound as the team is caught transitioning from defense to offense, that I find it difficult to pinpoint where the issue was. I also often see some really bullcrape free kicks paid in these situations against us, to ensure the turnover occurs.
I think they get into panic mode and then just launch it at whichever target they see first, and often miss what they were aiming for anyway.
Its hard. ive seen us try to create so much off half back, only to stuff up the forward entry and then cop it on the rebound as the team is caught transitioning from defense to offense, that I find it difficult to pinpoint where the issue was. I also often see some really bullcrape free kicks paid in these situations against us, to ensure the turnover occurs.
This has been going for the last 15 years, over and over again. ::) ::) ::) >:( >:(
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Enjoy the peace and quiet of Europe Jim ????????
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Enjoy the peace and quiet of Europe Jim ????????
Thanks for that NB!
Just come back from climbing to Santa Barbara Castle in Alicante in 30 Dec, 85% humidity. So recovery now then the bar force long stint.....lol.
Please keep posting so we can live vicariously through your European experiences!
Where else are you going?