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Topic: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise. (Read 40379 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #45
Yet, you have been wrong before!

Yes, I have. There might be people somewhere on this planet who get everything right, and are constantly firing off all these amazing top-of-the-line insights, but they certainly give this place a fairly wide berth.

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #46
Agree with most of that. I'll say I'm happy to wait for as long as it takes. AFAIC, we've been down the sack the coach path and where has it got us? The bloke will make, he and the team needs time. I said in another post that "Its time", by that I meant its time to stop making excuses for everything and be ruthless on the field. Do that and it will turn very quickly.

The problem is "as long as it takes" is not realistic in football terms because pressure increases with every unsuccessful year.
While some are prepared to be patient, others will say...Is this really the best way forward?
If we'd just rolled along as we had in the past without a rebuild would we have finished 2 and 20 in 2018...who knows, but I suspect not.
Would we be better placed for the future...you would like to think we would be ...but again, who knows!
At the end of the day football is about success and progress.
If that's not occurring at a very visible and measurable rate questions will be asked of the direction you've chosen.
For some of us older folk ..."as long as it takes" is unacceptable because we may not be around to see the fruits of the rebuild.

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #47
Bolton needs to show something in 2019.

"showing something" is an ambiguous phrase - we cut Bolton some slack this season because of youth and shocking injuries. What happens next season if we suffer bad injuries again ?

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #48
The problem is "as long as it takes" is not realistic in football terms because pressure increases with every unsuccessful year.
While some are prepared to be patient, others will say...Is this really the best way forward?
If we'd just rolled along as we had in the past without a rebuild would we have finished 2 and 20 in 2018...who knows, but I suspect not.
Would we be better placed for the future...you would like to think we would be ...but again, who knows!
At the end of the day football is about success and progress.
If that's not occurring at a very visible and measurable rate questions will be asked of the direction you've chosen.
For some of us older folk ..."as long as it takes" is unacceptable because we may not be around to see the fruits of the rebuild.
Firstly, if you think I'm "young", think again. My point is what if Richmond sacked Dimma in 2016 and Geel sacked Bomber before the 2007 season? Now I also know the WB sacked McCarthy and won a flag under Beveridge, but I'll guess and say Macca did all the hard work and the oxygen thief Bevo came along and reaped the rewards. I'll also guess we have sacked more coaches than anyone (or at least equal) and its got us to where we are now. I'm happy to do something different for a change.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #49
"showing something" is an ambiguous phrase - we cut Bolton some slack this season because of youth and shocking injuries. What happens next season if we suffer bad injuries again ?

You judge it on circumstances no doubt.
And he's had a bad run with injuries this year.
It's a reason he's been cut a little bit of slack.
2 and 20 without the injuries and he's in the sights.

Firstly, if you think I'm "young", think again. My point is what if Richmond sacked Dimma in 2016 and Geel sacked Bomber before the 2007 season? Now I also know the WB sacked McCarthy and won a flag under Beveridge, but I'll guess and say Macca did all the hard work and the oxygen thief Bevo came along and reaped the rewards. I'll also guess we have sacked more coaches than anyone and its got us to where we are now. I'm happy to do something different for a change.

That's fair enough.
I've no doubt the club has done a terrific bit of salesmanship in terms of the approach they're taking.
But there comes  a point when folks start to wonder whether they've been "sold a pup".

14/18
16/18
18/18

That's what we have during Bolton's time.
So yep
We're being a bit patient...very unCarlton like.
The Coles 6,000 dollar questions are
When does this turn around?
What has Bolton shown us so far?
What can he show us?

As I see it he's been given a very good young group to work with... when do we see signs that he can use his magic to turn that group into a winning combination?
Until we see that I have to remain sceptical.
Happy to give him a chance... but sceptical.

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #50
Impossible not to be sceptical....

BB has really shown very little in terms of getting hi skill set (teaching mantra) stuff to convert into wins....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #51
............................ I'll also guess we have sacked more coaches than anyone (or at least equal) and its got us to where we are now. I'm happy to do something different for a change.

I agree. We can't keep sacking coaches every three years, and expect to hit pay dirt.

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #52
You judge it on circumstances no doubt.
And he's had a bad run with injuries this year.
It's a reason he's been cut a little bit of slack.
2 and 20 without the injuries and he's in the sights.

That's fair enough.
I've no doubt the club has done a terrific bit of salesmanship in terms of the approach they're taking.
But there comes  a point when folks start to wonder whether they've been "sold a pup".

14/18
16/18
18/18

That's what we have during Bolton's time.
So yep
We're being a bit patient...very unCarlton like.
The Coles 6,000 dollar questions are
When does this turn around?
What has Bolton shown us so far?
What can he show us?

As I see it he's been given a very good young group to work with... when do we see signs that he can use his magic to turn that group into a winning combination?
Until we see that I have to remain sceptical.
Happy to give him a chance... but sceptical.
Lods all I'm saying is despite being a grumpy old prick who wants the old Carlton back (ie ladder position), I am not in the camp thatS putting a time frame around BB's tenure. I also don't see it as "salesmanship" per se`, I just see it as a fresh, new, unCarlton like approach which  I am comfortable with. Now thats what I think at the moment, if we were to lose every game for the next two years (extreme I know), I cant say I will be thinking the same as that would mean the "signs of the right direction" would have disappeared. Would I be worried if we had another year like 2018? A little, but no I wouldn't sack BB. Do I think we will have another year like 2018? No I don't.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #53
Lods all I'm saying is despite being a grumpy old prick who wants the old Carlton back (ie ladder position), I am not in the camp thatS putting a time frame around BB's tenure. I also don't see it as "salesmanship" per se`, I just see it as a fresh, new, unCarlton like approach which  I am comfortable with. Now thats what I think at the moment, if we were to lose every game for the next two years (extreme I know), I cant say I will be thinking the same as that would mean the "signs of the right direction" would have disappeared. Would I be worried if we had another year like 2018? A little, but no I wouldn't sack BB. Do I think we will have another year like 2018? No I don't.

I don't think we'll have another 2018 either.
But if we did I think we'd have reached the point where significant changes would have to occur.
Hopefully it's onward and upward in 2019 ;)

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #54
Would the club have employed Walls help if they were convinced on BB.....???

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #55
Would the club have employed Walls help if they were convinced on BB.....???

But he is not employed.

Wall's been offered a token unpaid volunteering position, it's a token position for a club great to otherwise be our version of Sheedy!
The Force Awakens!

Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #56
But he is not employed.

Wall's been offered a token unpaid volunteering position, it's a token position for a club great to otherwise be our version of Sheedy!

I think it's a little more structured and thought through than Sheedy's role LP, but it is a part time voluntary role:

Quote
As part of a broader development program for the Blues’ coaching staff, Carlton great Robert Walls will return to Ikon Park in 2019 as a mentor to the Blues’ AFL coaching panel.

Head of Football Brad Lloyd said the Blues were delighted to welcome back Walls.

“The Club, as part of their Coach Development Program, is putting together a coach mentoring component for all the coaches across the club and we approached Robert to see if he would be interested to play a role as a mentor,” Lloyd said.

“As a club, we’re committed to further developing our coaches’ skillsets through our Coach Development Program.”

“We’re thrilled to have a mentor of Walls’ calibre on board and look forward to his contribution.”

The three-time premiership player, who coached the Blues to the 1987 VFL premiership, said he was delighted to accept the voluntary role.

“I’m helping out in a very small way, just in a mentoring role with the coaching staff. I’ll be just a sounding board throughout the weeks and match days, so hopefully I can give them some support,” Walls said.

I note that the footy media types who beat the story up haven't come out and said that they were barking up the wrong drainpipe  ;)
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball



Re: A Rapid Rise Would Not Surprise.

Reply #59
IMO, the coach shouldn't even be part of the discussion until the end of the 2020 season. I've said it before, if things are still dismal, get the mob who did the Pies and Tigers audit, get them to scrutinise the joint from top to bottom, and then make changes based on that. I'd be most surprised if they determined Bolton needed to go.

Yes, agree with you here Paul, you cannot expect overnight success. Bolton was very reticent to let Gibbs go, as he knew what that really meant in terms of effect on the team, and, the players around him. You can't replace that without a like for like, which was know we couldn't get. Injuries, and the departure of experience left us devoid of coverage - all discussed here before.

Personally, the arrival of Andrew Fraser may be the greatest recruiting impact for next season in particular, and, I suspect the year after. This will shape the list, allow players to start to show their talent on the bigger stage. Who knows what a fit SPS, Williamson, and, Pickett may deliver. Those three in particular I highlight, as some serious organic development from them covers not only their set positions, but opens up new areas of the ground. If SPS, and Pickett were able to push into the midfield more, or play off half back, you will see other positional changes from other players, and this will really help us develop.

The players I expect to show some real organic development this year are:
Setterfield (if he gets a full pre-season, no reason he cannot be a very good player in his first year essentially - think Dow last year)
Cunningham (again, full pre-season, and who knows what he can deliver)
Williamson (if fit, he will play a lot this year)
Macreadie (the forgotten man in many ways, I rate this guy)
O'Brien (he has some talent, will be much better for another run, and a full pre-season)
Lang (full pre-season into him, and I think he will be starting 22 most weeks. He can play, showed that at Geelong, and in flashes last year)
Kennedy (he played a couple of solid games this year, give him a full pre-season under Fraser - different player in 2019).
Shumacher (my dark horse for break out year, I think if fit with a full pre-season, this guy will break into the side, and stay there)

Factor this type of development into those players, a full pre-season into Fasolo, Mckay, DeKonig, Marchbank, and Kerr, then you have the makings of real solid organic growth right across the park.

I don't expect a 'Dockers' game this year. I think those things will be eradicated, and, if so, if you look at the rest of our games (taking out the horror shows), you see a pretty competitive Carlton in most games next year.

I know it's only pre-season, but I think there is real cause for optimism for 2019. How may games will we win? It will probably come down to injuries on other lists, the organic improvement rate pre-round ten, and, how well they 'gell' or build 'cohesion' as Chris Judd often mentions. I would be happy with say two to three wins pre-round ten, which would set us up nicely for an overall of around seven to ten games for the year.

If that scenario played out, we could beat the Saints, Suns, Dockers, and probably the Bulldogs, give Geelong a run (we did this season), knock over the hawks, push the Pies, Richmond, and Eagles. I think we can also (dependent on injuries), knock over the Crows here, and, Port Adelaide. Down here I think we also a pretty good chance against the Lions (I rate them - quietly building up there), and will definitely push the Swans down here.

There is a lot to look forward to in my opinion.