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Topic: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn (Read 11817 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #75
I refuse to believe Cripps isn't injured...probably multiple niggles.
He's lost his acceleration/burst.
He's making promises his body can't keep.

The problem is a 75% Cripps is still better than most, if not all, of our other midfielders, so he keeps playing...to the detriment of his own reputation

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #76
Thought the players let Teague down, hallmark of his coaching is if we go down we go down swinging. This game after the Hawks upped the pressure we gave in, weak contests, lazy chasing, avoiding heavy contact and waiting for a teammate to do the
work. Too many of our players give inconsistent effort and that's a tough problem for any coach.
We had probably three decent players for the game... Playing group and leaders need condemning and not the coach..

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #77
Thought the players let Teague down, hallmark of his coaching is if we go down we go down swinging. This game after the Hawks upped the pressure we gave in, weak contests, lazy chasing, avoiding heavy contact and waiting for a teammate to do the
work. Too many of our players give inconsistent effort and that's a tough problem for any coach.
We had probably three decent players for the game... Playing group and leaders need condemning and not the coach..

Does Teague need to develop a (dreaded) Plan B though.
It is a bit of an all or nothing approach.
When it goes off the boil like last night it's a problem that's difficult to recover from.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #78
Okay sleeping on it, and remembering more that the Lions smashed Essendon, I'm feeling a bit better than yesterday.  >:D  Just!

We were on top ,that first quarter was what my dreams are made of.  Then our momentum stopped - because of 3 in a row turnovers under zero pressure by our guys.  Literally kicking it directly to a hawk on his own.  then the backs get caught out of position and they get goals.

Incredibly disappointed in our guys and didn't feel like Teague did anything to change the game either.  Maybe his philosophy is all in, no matter what.  Boys to back themselves and keep going.

I remember a similar game against Hawthorn, we were on holiday on the Gold coast and settled in to watch a 'sure win', and 'we had turned the corner' and we were 'on the way up' only to get destroyed by hawthorn.  Same crap, different year.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #79
Mostly it’s inconsistent effort but for some It’s consistently weak efforts.

We all lauded Bryce Gibbs but he struggles to break into a team that’s last on the ladder and I suspect that what would also be happening to Marc Murphy at another side. His weak efforts in the middle are simply not acceptable. I can’t watch him anymore - it’s forward pocket or nothing for Murphy at this rate.

SPS hasn’t kicked a ball more than 15m all year and seems obsessed with dinking it around the background like a scared rabbit. He looks incredibly slow and weak at the moment and he’s clearly, very clearly, not a defender because he cannot tackle and is very slow to stay with his opponent. He is being played out of position and we need him delivering to our forward 50, it’s midfield or nothing for him.

Betts, Cunningham, Setterfield, McKay might as well have not unpacked their bags at the ground. Kennedy tries but isn’t too flash.

I see from the Carlton website that Brodie Kemp is chocked full of confidence so hopefully he can walk the talk next year and I’d love to see what TDK and Josh Honey can deliver soon.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #80
One area that really sticks out is the uncontested game. When you see such a large discrepancy between the two teams, the first two things I think of are structure and work rate. if they're taking too many uncontested marks and the ball is moving forward, it's too easy to gain territory, and if we lose the ground ball uncontested, it's too many easy chains of possession to break away from congestion. That's where they really smashed us IMO. The contested game was a lot more even, although they were still slightly ahead. After 1/4 time, they were simply hungrier and prepared to work harder in my view.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #81
Thought the players let Teague down, hallmark of his coaching is if we go down we go down swinging. This game after the Hawks upped the pressure we gave in, weak contests, lazy chasing, avoiding heavy contact and waiting for a teammate to do the
work. Too many of our players give inconsistent effort and that's a tough problem for any coach.
We had probably three decent players for the game... Playing group and leaders need condemning and not the coach..
One other thing I noted apart from the fumbling yesterday was the number of times there was a ball to be at ground level and our blokes stood around and watch each other only to have a Hawthorn player grab it and take it away. Thats weak IMO, scared for the contest.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

 

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #82
One area that really sticks out is the uncontested game. When you see such a large discrepancy between the two teams, the first two things I think of are structure and work rate. if they're taking too many uncontested marks and the ball is moving forward, it's too easy to gain territory, and if we lose the ground ball uncontested, it's too many easy chains of possession to break away from congestion. That's where they really smashed us IMO. The contested game was a lot more even, although they were still slightly ahead. After 1/4 time, they were simply hungrier and prepared to work harder in my view.
Personally, I fell it's been that way all season, I said as much in the pre-game thread. I think it was just a matter of time before a better ball using team exposed it, when we loose the football we look out of the contests. It's just that when we can maintain enough football it is a hidden defect, last night they dominated possession and once they got it outside we couldn't get it back.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #83
One other thing I noted apart from the fumbling yesterday was the number of times there was a ball to be at ground level and our blokes stood around and watch each other only to have a Hawthorn player grab it and take it away. Thats weak IMO, scared for the contest.

Maybe worried about too many htb free kicks ?

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #84
Personally, I fell it's been that way all season, I said as much in the pre-game thread. I think it was just a matter of time before a better ball using team exposed it, when we loose the football we look out of the contests. It's just that when we can maintain enough football it is a hidden defect, last night they dominated possession and once they got it outside we couldn't get it back.

Yes, maybe you're right.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #85
We're the club that has two speeds plus a once a year meeting with a 'Dishlishers' who we easily account for.

Speed one is a narrow loss or win. Speed two is being easily accounted for and as I mentioned, speed 3 is reserved for one game a year when we win comfortably... a la Dishlickers at the present moment. We could just as easily be sitting 2nd bottom with one win at present.

What exactly is our culture; our brand? Seems pretty mysterious to me. Something like, 'when things are going our way we finesse and look fantastic and kick goals... until our opponents turn up, apply pressure, then we go to water.' Seems when we're ferocious, we do well but that ferocity is very conditional and fluctuates and is entirely dependent upon what the opposition does... it's apparently a very moody ferocity.

Our conservatism at the selection table is telling and needs changing. I understand we want to send a message to blokes that we trust them and that they belong... but there should be another message, 'perform poorly and you're out, plenty of blokes/newbies who deserve a gig to take your place'.

When we were desperate against the Dawks how 'individual' did we play... holy mackerel, so many trying to be the 'saviour'... symptom of poor discipline and no culture/brand.

As for individuals... what the hec is up with Crippa? Doc troubled by attention and lack of freedom... there go the skippers. Cuningham does his usual invisible man stunt for extended periods and then gives us hope with a sublime goal, only to shrink away again. Murphy makes demoralising errors... and when a leader (?) does that the negative ripple effect is influential. What you see with SPS is what happens when a creative bloke is given a negative role.

I wonder if the coaching ranks need a Ross Lyon... someone who understands high levels of discipline and has a bit of shizen on his liver to pass on to others. Our niceness is a serious issue, and not in a good way.

We need to make some very hard decisions at year's end re personnel and assistant coaches.





Very good summation, excellent in fact however a couple things if I may:
- There is absolutely nothing "fericious" about the way we play, ever, zero, zilch. That the BIGGEST problem we have. Richmond are ferocious all day every day, Hawks were once upon a time, doggies are every now and then, us? Nope.
- SPS is cooked. He isn't a defender, he isn't a mid, he isn't a fwd, he isnt a negating player, he is a liablity. He alone yesterday caused 3 goals by either fumbling, lack of awareness, got tackled and didnt dispose. Cant or doesnt kick more than 15-20m. If we lucky, a WA club will trade with us for him. Ive been a big critic from very early, I was told to be patient, he's creative, rubbish. He IS NOT the type player we need.
- Cunningham, see SPS.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #86
Personally, I fell it's been that way all season, I said as much in the pre-game thread. I think it was just a matter of time before a better ball using team exposed it, when we loose the football we look out of the contests. It's just that when we can maintain enough football it is a hidden defect, last night they dominated possession and once they got it outside we couldn't get it back.
Downhill skiers
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #87
We're the club that has two speeds plus a once a year meeting with a 'Dishlishers' who we easily account for.

Speed one is a narrow loss or win. Speed two is being easily accounted for and as I mentioned, speed 3 is reserved for one game a year when we win comfortably... a la Dishlickers at the present moment. We could just as easily be sitting 2nd bottom with one win at present.

What exactly is our culture; our brand? Seems pretty mysterious to me. Something like, 'when things are going our way we finesse and look fantastic and kick goals... until our opponents turn up, apply pressure, then we go to water.' Seems when we're ferocious, we do well but that ferocity is very conditional and fluctuates and is entirely dependent upon what the opposition does... it's apparently a very moody ferocity.

Our conservatism at the selection table is telling and needs changing. I understand we want to send a message to blokes that we trust them and that they belong... but there should be another message, 'perform poorly and you're out, plenty of blokes/newbies who deserve a gig to take your place'.

When we were desperate against the Dawks how 'individual' did we play... holy mackerel, so many trying to be the 'saviour'... symptom of poor discipline and no culture/brand.

As for individuals... what the hec is up with Crippa? Doc troubled by attention and lack of freedom... there go the skippers. Cuningham does his usual invisible man stunt for extended periods and then gives us hope with a sublime goal, only to shrink away again. Murphy makes demoralising errors... and when a leader (?) does that the negative ripple effect is influential. What you see with SPS is what happens when a creative bloke is given a negative role.

I wonder if the coaching ranks need a Ross Lyon... someone who understands high levels of discipline and has a bit of shizen on his liver to pass on to others. Our niceness is a serious issue, and not in a good way.

We need to make some very hard decisions at year's end re personnel and assistant coaches.

Need to think more with the head and not frustrations. Not alot of huge decisions need to be made. Right now we're typical of up and coming sides. The good and not so good players will sort itself out in the wash.

2 days ago we were a loss to Melbourne and a goal after the siren from being equal top of the ladder. Would've been an over-achievement but 4-5 is probably slightly unders and  a sign of our inconsistencies as up coming sides are like. 5-4 would probably be closer. Just got to accept they'll be frustrations along the way.

Get rid of the inconsistencies and that'll see a huge change. We'll see more like the Dogs and Geelong games and less like last night, Melbourne and St.Kilda.

We're 10-10 from the last 20. Bet you'd have accepted that after being 1-11 and embarrassing. Too many want it to happen overnight.

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #88
While it's not the reason we lost, it clear 3 days of Clarkson bemoaning umpires has an effect, there were clear differences in how the rules were implemented last night to previous rounds. Whether you think that is good or bad is irrelevant, it's the inconsistency in the way the rules are implemented by umpires on the night that plagues the support.

Years ago I would leave a lot of games and think that was a great game, win or lose, you felt it was a fair contest and if you didn't win they were just better, harder, faster on the day. Very few games would I leave and think we were jibbed, now under the modern three umpiring regime most losses you feel jibbed, and you could sense the change in last nights game after 1/2-time. Then at the end the soft irrelevant free kicks on the wing evening up the count.

Something is very very wrong with the sport, when complaining coaches are rewarded for umpire criticism. It's not good enough from the Big House, they need to start handing out 6 figure fines to coaches and clubs for bringing the game into disrepute. Clarkson, Dimma and Scott in particular are professionals at it, they do it because they know it works, they aren't just bitching. No wonder opposition hang their heads, they must feel powerless like victims! There is a reason Clarkson looked like he'd crap the bed in the coaches box, despite his team cruising to victory!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Pondering: AFL 2020 Rd 9: Carlton vs Hawthorn

Reply #89
Thought the players let Teague down, hallmark of his coaching is if we go down we go down swinging. This game after the Hawks upped the pressure we gave in, weak contests, lazy chasing, avoiding heavy contact and waiting for a teammate to do the
work. Too many of our players give inconsistent effort and that's a tough problem for any coach.
We had probably three decent players for the game... Playing group and leaders need condemning and not the coach..
A mate of mine says one thing only ad nauseum to me, "we lack c@#$ right across the board".  Back in the day we had it in spades.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time