Carlton Supporters Club

Well, here we go ...

Haven't got much to say about the game today.

But i said this in the pre-game....

I think people have forgotten how good a fit fisher can be. Its understandable as he's been injured/coming back from injury for years.

His best is very good.....we just haven't seen it for a LONG time.

Proved plenty of people wrong today.

Unfortunately we lost Martin early and basically had our 2nds forwardline in (missing Curnow, McKay, McGovern, Silvagni, Cuningham).

On to next week.

Good contested effort by most players, WC have a much stronger team physically and we looked spent in the 3rd quarter..
DeKoning and Cottrell did some nice things and deserve to play next week, who ever played on Sheed doesnt deserve a game, no one picked him up and he hurt us badly.
Jones was good at FB on Kennedy and it was probably the big body of Darling that gave us the most problems down forward , thought Cripps was injured and he pulled up short in that marking contest which wasnt a good look but everyone has a moment like that. Our own Kennedy and Setterfield were handy, the former took some very good marks under real pressure.....Nicnat won the ruck duels but didnt do much else IMO. Kelly got a lot of ball and hurt us late as did Shuey but to half time we had them contained.
SPS had a shocker....the 1st holding the ball was rubbish but he got caught again in front of goal and froze for a second or two and the way the umpires are now you dont get long sometimes. Then he had another bad moment in the last quarter where he needed to attack the ball better, not sure we can keep playing him down back especially vs bigger bodied teams like the WC.
Losing Charlie, Harry and then McGovern didnt give us much forward structure and allowed WC to double up on Levi or make him lead wide and we didnt have any alternative avenues to goal other than crumbing work of Fisher who was excellent taking his opportunities for 4 goals..
Eddie did some nice things early then faded and losing Martin robbed us of some smarts and forward pressure, Duggan seemed to get a lot of uncontested ball along with Hurn and we needed Martin to keep them honest.
Umpiring was carp and the holding the ball rule remains a lottery....

Can't win in those circumstances.

We panicked a bit after 1/2-time, then we struggled against bigger heavier bodies.

Cripps is his own worst enemy, needs some serious handball practice, gave it directly to opponents 4 or 5 times then he doesn't have the pace to get back into the chain of play. If he's going to be dishing it off he needs to make sure he hits team-mates not opposition.

But on top of that, Wet Toast defenders (and mids) pick up the footy, try to break two or three tackles then fail to correctly dispose for a play on, Carlton defender inside D50 picks it up clean, blind tackled instantly from behind, holding the ball.

Nic Nat basically throws it away at ground level, sooked it up against De Konig because he couldn't get his way against a baby.

Kelly stone cold dropped it twice when tackled, inside the Wet Toast F50 and directly in front of the umpire, play on goal Wet Toast!

Great taster from The King, needs another 5 ~ 10kg and he'll be good to go long term. Cottrell not bad either, cooler than some of our older heads. Both will be better for the run.

Haven't got much to say about the game today.

On to next week.

Very low key post there Kruddler.  I have a feeling what is to follow will be a tad more emotional and vitriolic.

And the content will be, in order:

1. Umpiring.
2. Lead surrendered.
3. Lack of physicality.
4-10. Various mistakes by players.

I, for one, am too irrational to post right now.

Fair effort against a premiership side and their #22 glow worm groupie. His calls were appalling at crucial moments. Said that once they were gifted several shots at goal, the swing would follow. It did.

I thought we'd lose by 5-6. In all, some great signs from: 🐟👑, Willo, Kennedy, Setters, Walsh, Samo, Weiters, Plowman, and Blueboy Cottrell 👏

The usual contributions from Captains, Simo, Levi, Ed kept us in it for 3q. Not quite enough in the end though. We're lacking that strength in the middle. Still. How fortunate that an AA quality mid finds his way into a Premiership side. Their midfield with Nic are top shelf. We're nowhere near that yet, but didn't let them run all over us. Injuries and depleted bench didn't help our cause.

Fair effort against a premiership side and their #22 glow worm groupie. His calls were appalling at crucial moments.

Who the feck is that umpire, and how the feck does he get away with that rubbish?

That rubbish would not even cut it at VFL Reserves level!

Listening to our guys, Plowman in particular, sounds like we were worded up not to argue, probably makes them worse!

Very low key post there Kruddler.  I have a feeling what is to follow will be a tad more emotional and vitriolic.

And the content will be, in order:

1. Umpiring.
2. Lead surrendered.
3. Lack of physicality.
4-10. Various mistakes by players.

I, for one, am too irrational to post right now.

Forget umpiring, not interested. I thought we were more than physical enough against a team of monsters. Mistakes, usual suspects but put that aside also, WC made mistakes too so thats swings and roundabouts. Another 5 goal unanswered streak? Thats unacceptable and it comes down to on field leadership and match day coaching.

Very low key post there Kruddler.  I have a feeling what is to follow will be a tad more emotional and vitriolic.

And the content will be, in order:

1. Umpiring.
2. Lead surrendered.
3. Lack of physicality.
4-10. Various mistakes by players.

I, for one, am too irrational to post right now.

And thats one reason why i haven't got much to say about it.

Its clear as day what the issues are, and its not necessarily us.

I'm tired of it.

FFS, Plowman agreeing with the umpire for that initial SPS decision was laughable. I'm not even sure the umpire who paid it agreed with it that much. But, give him a pat on the back, fix your hair, and wait for the next one.  ::)

Haven't got much to say about the game today.

But i said this in the pre-game....
Proved plenty of people wrong today.

Unfortunately we lost Martin early and basically had our 2nds forwardline in (missing Curnow, McKay, McGovern, Silvagni, Cuningham).

On to next week.

And if he does SFA next week? No one doubts his talent, its lack of consistency and being injury prone that is an issue with too many of our blokes.

Plowman should be dropped for agreeing with that umpire. We had two up the other end where they picked the ball up and tried to fend off.

Great in patches but few and far between.  Some nice cameos though.

And yes, Seton MUST be taken out of defence, Cripps MUST give off more and Teague MUST effect more changes

This one will put me on the outer, but dump the orange socks.  Once was enough.  We are navy blue.  Wear a bloody armband if you must but don't change the damn uniform.

Some positives today:
Fish - keep going son
TDK - Will be special, keep playing him
Matched it with a top team again
Disappointed we didnt win a game that we played very well in for a large portion of but hey, I expect WC and PA to play in the GF so if anything, we had a good close look at what it takes to be a contender.  Just to fix the 9-3 I50 mark differential.

re: Murphy....I'd be more concerned about SPS...

Cripps is still not right, I suppose that will be his story for 2020.

Plowman should be dropped for agreeing with that umpire. We had two up the other end where they picked the ball up and tried to fend off.

I thought there were 3 identical HTBs at our end but yeah.

Cripps is still not right, I suppose that will be his story for 2020.

Looks injured, not moving that freely and felt for the ball when he had a chance to mark it which is unlike him to lack intensity. His confidence is down, all the tagging and crap he has copped is taking its toll. Yeo is a tough opponent but he just looks off and I'd be tempted to rest him.

That was a fairly good 4 quarter game. The boys stuck with it and you seriously cannot say they didn't give 100%. Pressure at the player was the best I've seen for a long time. The loss of Martin hurt bad. It always seems to be a influential player for us. One less rotation started to show towards the end but I was actually proud of how they didn't give in.
WILL NOT talk about the umpiring, but for one incident. 3rd quarter, Fisher had just kicked his 4th. The ball is popped to just 20 metres out from our goals. Cripps somehow dropped a lollipop. My God what goes on there? Anyway, King Nat takes procession tries to break free because, you know, he's a superstar and that's what superstars do. He gets collared. Does not get rid of it and in fact drops the ball which for anyone who knows football is called "incorrect disposal". What happens? Ball up. All hail King Nat (thankyou pinhead #22, again). So instead of getting a 20 metre kick from directly in front to extend our lead to, I think, 4 goals it goes down the other end for the start of the 5 goal match winning run.
That right there is what I keep trying to explain to the wife is called a momentum killer. Thankyou pinhead #22.
Also, can someone tell me, is Shuey a repeat offender on the trip. I seem to recall him doing this before?

That was a fairly good 4 quarter game. The boys stuck with it and you seriously cannot say they didn't give 100%. Pressure at the player was the best I've seen for a long time. The loss of Martin hurt bad. It always seems to be a influential player for us. One less rotation started to show towards the end but I was actually proud of how they didn't give in.
WILL NOT talk about the umpiring, but for one incident. 3rd quarter, Fisher had just kicked his 4th. The ball is popped to just 20 metres out from our goals. Cripps somehow dropped a lollipop. My God what goes on there? Anyway, King Nat takes procession tries to break free because, you know, he's a superstar and that's what superstars do. He gets collared. Does not get rid of it and in fact drops the ball which for anyone who knows football is called "incorrect disposal". What happens? Ball up. All hail King Nat (thankyou pinhead #22, again). So instead of getting a 20 metre kick from directly in front to extend our lead to, I think, 4 goals it goes down the other end for the start of the 5 goal match winning run.
That right there is what I keep trying to explain to the wife is called a momentum killer. Thankyou pinhead #22.
Also, can someone tell me, is Shuey a repeat offender on the trip. I seem to recall him doing this before?

Agree on Shuey....remember him tripping others, should be suspended...

I was pretty proud to be honest. 

We were missing MCG, Harry, Martin from the first quarter. 

Thought the new boys did really well.  Love watching Cottrell run, lightning. And he seems to have a little Robbo about him, not taking a backward step. TDK wasn’t overawed at all, and is exciting to think of his future.

Thought that team played Pretty well, ran out of gas in the third when their big bodies smashing into us made us lose steam.

Don’t really get the hate for Murph, some of his handballs were bullets.  He can’t tackle though can he. Hm.

Thought Samo was great? He threw himself where was needed, sure he made a few errors but those HTB were bullcrap.

Cripps seems to be struggling - a few costly errors.

Nice to see Fish back.  And Kennedy was strong and brave.

I’m entirely sick of people saying the umpiring doesn’t matter.  It really does.  They continuously dropped the balls when he tackled, and it was play on.  The HTB was the most disgraceful decision. What was the 50 for? As said, NicNat was caught in front of our goals exactly the same, play on.   GTFO.  My logical mind says there can be no bias, umpires don’t care who wins. But this happens time and time again.

Who the feck is that umpire, and how the feck does he get away with that rubbish?

That rubbish would not even cut it at VFL Reserves level!

Listening to our guys, Plowman in particular, sounds like we were worded up not to argue, probably makes them worse!

Who this guy?

22 screwed us badly in another game: I remember a few bad decisions and it was the same guy.

Also that Shuey trip wasn’t even a free kick for us?

Can I say how nice it was to listen to a non biased commentator in Daisy.  So refreshing for someone to call it like it was happening, not worrying about offending the old boys or going to script on anti Carlton diatribe like Fugly Ling likes to to do.

Shuey, low impact, accidental, careless, no fine, play on!

I would have loved a win, but given our long injury list and losing Martin early on, I'm happy with the way everyone put in.

I think any chance we had of winning was lost in the third quarter when WC got a run on and kicked 4 or 5 goals in about ten minutes and Teague just left Pittonet in the ruck.  NicNat had killed him in the first quarter and did the same in the third.  Had TDK been thrown into the middle after their second goal we may have stopped their run.

Very impressed with TDK and Cottrell.

re: Murphy....I'd be more concerned about SPS...

Really ? I thought SPS were very solid today. Was on the end of some very unlucky decisions but thought he used the ball well tackled hard and overall thought he really contested with urgency today. Not easy to defend when their is such a lack of midfield pressure in the last quarter and a half. The ball flew out of the centre too often.

Cripps is way out of form his mis on goal again costs us momentum at an important point and his half mark attempt when he thought he was going to get contact in the goalsquare at start of the third was a massive turning point imo. They piled on 5 in a row from that very point. If that was any other player we would tear strips off them he shouldn’t be allowed to forget that one and needs to repay the team imo. I love the bloke but he is our captain and reckon we need a lot more from him then we have got this year
Of the others Kennedy’s best game imo, Fisher made every post a winner, Dekoning belongs in the 1sts and thought Weitering looked tired as the game went on. Massive holes in the midfield and said it countless times unless it’s addressed in the offseason we will be a middle of the road team at best.

Very winnable games in the next fortnight - need to notch wins or the gains till this point will mean little.

I would have loved a win, but given our long injury list and losing Martin early on, I'm happy with the way everyone put in.

I think any chance we had of winning was lost in the third quarter when WC got a run on and kicked 4 or 5 goals in about ten minutes and Teague just left Pittonet in the ruck.  NicNat had killed him in the first quarter and did the same in the third.  Had TDK been thrown into the middle after their second goal we may have stopped their run.

Very impressed with TDK and Cottrell.

Probably had to get a lot out of Pittonet before the injection/s wore off!

Doubt TDK could ruck much more time and remain competitive.

I would have loved a win, but given our long injury list and losing Martin early on, I'm happy with the way everyone put in.

I think any chance we had of winning was lost in the third quarter when WC got a run on and kicked 4 or 5 goals in about ten minutes and Teague just left Pittonet in the ruck.  NicNat had killed him in the first quarter and did the same in the third.  Had TDK been thrown into the middle after their second goal we may have stopped their run.

Very impressed with TDK and Cottrell.

Pitto as also off for 33 mins with some sort of injury.

I was pretty proud to be honest. 

We were missing MCG, Harry, Martin from the first quarter. 

Thought the new boys did really well.  Love watching Cottrell run, lightning. And he seems to have a little Robbo about him, not taking a backward step. TDK wasn’t overawed at all, and is exciting to think of his future.

Thought that team played Pretty well, ran out of gas in the third when their big bodies smashing into us made us lose steam.

Don’t really get the hate for Murph, some of his handballs were bullets.  He can’t tackle though can he. Hm.

Thought Samo was great? He threw himself where was needed, sure he made a few errors but those HTB were bullcrap.

Cripps seems to be struggling - a few costly errors.

Nice to see Fish back.  And Kennedy was strong and brave.

I’m entirely sick of people saying the umpiring doesn’t matter.  It really does.  They continuously dropped the balls when he tackled, and it was play on.  The HTB was the most disgraceful decision. What was the 50 for? As said, NicNat was caught in front of our goals exactly the same, play on.   GTFO.  My logical mind says there can be no bias, umpires don’t care who wins. But this happens time and time again.

SPS is too inconsistent with his attack on the ball and for every tackle he lays the opposition break the next one or he just doesn't go hard enough. Down back that's a problem, prefer him up the ground in the Midfield. Cotterell has a light body but gives chasing, tackling 110% everytime and you know he will contest well, that's all I want from SPS.

I guess we just have to lie with the umpiring. It is one of those things against us each week. I could complain bitterly, but I won't. It won't help my dopamine levels.

But the other thing that is annoying me of late, and it is almost as bad as the Umpiring, is the bagging of Marc Murphy.
I agree totally that he is not near his best. I agree totally that his body now has problems and tackling is not longer easy for him.
I agree totally that he can't be in the centre square as much as he once was.
But Murphy had 23 possessions today: more than any other Carlton player. And he didn't waste that many of them.

I know a lot of supporters, especially here, think Murphy is soft. I can't say I ever have. There was a time, not long ago, when his tackling was first rate. I can think of a lot of times that he put his body on the line.

I admit freely that there have been times when Murphy has not played as hard as I would him to have played. But that is not the majority of the time.

I have written a number of times that I think Murphy should be in a forward pocket with short periods on the ball. He is very clever near goals and is an excellent snap. I still think that is the case.
Maybe the club will try that. But probably not. My suggestions seem not to be well liked by our coaching staff.

But give up blaming Murphy for every bad thing that happens to us! It is ridiculous! He is a good player nearing the end of his time as a player! If you don't like Murphy, fine. Enjoy your dislike. But stop using him as the focus of our failures. It is not all his fault. There is plenty of fault to go around!

Just looked at the Team stats. They beat us in all but 3 categories. Inside 50's, contested marks and Tackles! Our 77 to their 56. That is outstanding. Has to be a while since we've dominated in that area. Signs of improvement? For me just shows they were really ready to have a crack. Have to say there were bad moments for all of our blokes today but overall I really can't fault anyone. Some real criticism of Murphy and SPS but for me that was the best I've seen both of them play since round 1 and I'm critic of both!?

The good:
Cottrell's first game, deserves to play next week, his turn of speed will be something special.
TDK. His 2nd qtr against NN was something for us all to get excited about.
Zachery's return. Should be a small forward for a while, quick reflexes, opportunistic goals and good defensive pressure.
Kennedy. Especially his first half. Imposed himself and took strong grabs. Coming along nicely.
Setters coming along nicely.
Walsh. Has shaken off the 2nd year blues very nicely.
Willo. Still a little fumbly, perhaps lacking a little confidence but improving slowly but surely.

The bad:
Again with the 4-7 goal turnaround, FFS. This time it was 30 pts. Sheesh, opposition sides will be scheduling their 4-7 goal run-on against us. I was deeply concerned when I saw the human Valium, Barker, talking with the mids at half time. And we started the 3rd without the intensity and tackling desperation of the first half... and this let the Weagles have a sniff.
Losing Martin.

So so:
Still not sold on Newnes.
Sammo gets dragged deep into defence and then he's rooted. Further up the ground... dangerous.
Murphy. Gets plenty and gave his all today but his occasional short steps and inability to really hurt opponents with his possessions is now an issue. Surely must retire and not get a contract renewal.
Crippa - take a deep breath and delegate, share the load. Oh, and let's take our time when shooting for goal and that missed mark... gulp, we looked a little nervous and didn't attack the aggott to ensure we marked it.

More bad:
You will seldom hear anything about umpires from me but who the fck is umpire 22? Appalling.
I repeat... the 4-7 goal opposition run-ons. FFS

Ps When we learn to sustain our best, our tenacity re tackling, we will beat anyone, anywhere.

SPS is too inconsistent with his attack on the ball and for every tackle he lays the opposition break the next one or he just doesn't go hard enough. Down back that's a problem, prefer him up the ground in the Midfield. Cotterell has a light body but gives chasing, tackling 110% everytime and you know he will contest well, that's all I want from SPS.

Agree.  SPS also can be very lackadaisical with his disposal resulting in often damaging turnovers at critical times. In defensive situations we just can't afford these. I noticed 2 or 3 today.

We're bit depleted. gave a good account of ourselves against the possible flag favorite but we ran out of puff in the end. We've shown we can take on the best and match them, even beat them but in-game consistency is our big issue. Suppose it happens when you're building but it's something for the pre-season big time. We have to be able to close a game down when the other side has momentum. We're 4-6, what could we have been but for that. At the end of round 10 we were equal leaders with Port and Brisbane for qtrs won. Makes the in-game inconsistency stand out more.

Next 2 games we have to win just to show we've made great gains. 6-6 would be a decent outcome.

Plowman should be dropped for agreeing with that umpire. We had two up the other end where they picked the ball up and tried to fend off.

What Plowman did today typifies our culture.    Weak, Submissive.   While I compliment him for his game today btw, the team continues to show why it cannot ever become anything of substance in it's current form.  To hear Teauges presser today was to think if you hadn't seen the game, that we'd won.  He spoke of 'growth' etc.  Sounds like a Boltonism.   The truth is , yet again, and it doesn't matter WHO we play btw... because we do it again MOST sides, we go to pieces when the pressure comes and we don't know how to win.  Not enough blokes either want to, or have the capabilities to die for it.  The coach has no idea how to stop a run of goals, and this is reasonable given he is ANOTHER first year coach.  I am mentally torn apart by what this club does to it's supporters year after year and soon enough will be enough.

Looks injured, not moving that freely and felt for the ball when he had a chance to mark it which is unlike him to lack intensity. His confidence is down, all the tagging and crap he has copped is taking its toll. Yeo is a tough opponent but he just looks off and I'd be tempted to rest him.

He is 'banged up' physically and mentally from copping all the losses that we have endured over the past 5 years.  I think he actually may have 'jibbed it' today in the 3rd quarter when we could have gone 27 points up had he taken a mark in front of goal.  If he didn't jib it, and I honestly hope he didn't, his legs couldn't get there.  Either way it was an incident that made me vomit. 

Agree.  SPS also can be very lackadaisical with his disposal resulting in often damaging turnovers at critical times. In defensive situations we just can't afford these. I noticed 2 or 3 today.

SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

The good:
Cottrell's first game, deserves to play next week, his turn of speed will be something special.
TDK. His 2nd qtr against NN was something for us all to get excited about.
Zachery's return. Should be a small forward for a while, quick reflexes, opportunistic goals and good defensive pressure.
Kennedy. Especially his first half. Imposed himself and took strong grabs. Coming along nicely.
Setters coming along nicely.
Walsh. Has shaken off the 2nd year blues very nicely.
Willo. Still a little fumbly, perhaps lacking a little confidence but improving slowly but surely.

The bad:
Again with the 4-7 goal turnaround, FFS. This time it was 30 pts. Sheesh, opposition sides will be scheduling their 4-7 goal run-on against us. I was deeply concerned when I saw the human Valium, Barker, talking with the mids at half time. And we started the 3rd without the intensity and tackling desperation of the first half... and this let the Weagles have a sniff.
Losing Martin.

So so:
Still not sold on Newnes.
Sammo gets dragged deep into defence and then he's rooted. Further up the ground... dangerous.
Murphy. Gets plenty and gave his all today but his occasional short steps and inability to really hurt opponents with his possessions is now an issue. Surely must retire and not get a contract renewal.
Crippa - take a deep breath and delegate, share the load. Oh, and let's take our time when shooting for goal and that missed mark... gulp, we looked a little nervous and didn't attack the aggott to ensure we marked it.

The bad:
You will seldom hear anything about umpires from me but who the fck is umpire 22? Appalling.
I repeat... the 4-7 goal run-ons. FFS

Ps When we learn to sustain our best, our tenacity re tackling, we will beat anyone, anywhere.

The human vallium, Barker...great call.  This guy is one of the cornerstones of our 'losing culture'  and must go at the end of the year.

I was pretty proud to be honest. 

We were missing MCG, Harry, Martin from the first quarter. 

Thought the new boys did really well.  Love watching Cottrell run, lightning. And he seems to have a little Robbo about him, not taking a backward step. TDK wasn’t overawed at all, and is exciting to think of his future.

Thought that team played Pretty well, ran out of gas in the third when their big bodies smashing into us made us lose steam.

Don’t really get the hate for Murph, some of his handballs were bullets.  He can’t tackle though can he. Hm.

Thought Samo was great? He threw himself where was needed, sure he made a few errors but those HTB were bullcrap.

Cripps seems to be struggling - a few costly errors.

Nice to see Fish back.  And Kennedy was strong and brave.

I’m entirely sick of people saying the umpiring doesn’t matter.  It really does.  They continuously dropped the balls when he tackled, and it was play on.  The HTB was the most disgraceful decision. What was the 50 for? As said, NicNat was caught in front of our goals exactly the same, play on.   GTFO.  My logical mind says there can be no bias, umpires don’t care who wins. But this happens time and time again.

My thoughts exactly Micky.
Well said.
Take away the "x" home game advantage and player 23 #22, and our boys would have given this a right shake. Would, should, could... I know. My view stands our performance was solid. 

With the limitations on our list at the moment, we should be pretty happy. I'm not. I hate losing and we've had enough losing.

[1] We need to rest Cripps. Cripps had 8 clearances, 8 tackles, 19 possessions and is mistreated every week. That might not be his greatest form, but do we have anyone better to take his place?
I would really love to able to rest Cripps for a few weeks, to get his head right, to get his body right, to get his kicking for goal straightened out. Last year his goal kicking was much better than it has been at any time this year. His kicking is general has been considerably shorter, one of the reasons why I think he is not 100% fit. But, for God sake, look at what he does. He is still one of the clearance kings of the AFL even as he is.

[2] Our forward line. It has not been at its best this year, but no forward line has been. Many games have scores for entire games that used to be common in the first quarters.
(a) We are missing Harry McKay, Jack Silvagni, Charlie Curnow and Mitch McGovern: 4 of our 5 key forward options. We haven't had all of them available at any time this season. All of them have had form and/or injury issues.
The only taller forward we have had for the whole season is Levi Casboult and he has generally been playing well.
(b) Our small forwards have done better this year. Jack Martin has been an excellent pickup, and while his kicking for goal has been ordinary, he has provided us with the sort of thing we have needed for years.
Eddie Betts a cult hero, but even he is struggling for goals. Good as he is, he is much closer to his coaching career to kicking 70+ goals in a season again.
The rest have been mids passing through, like Gibbons, etc.
We caught the Weagles out with Fisher today and he proved good value. having seen that, I do not expect Fisher to kick many goals next round. I would put him on the ball or on the wing. He is unlikely to be able repeat his performance, but he could be very useful in another role, because he is a good player.
I would be tempted to play Honey forward next week. With Martin out, we have very little to lose in trying him out.
(c) Our rucks: in case you do not remember, Matthew Kreuzer, our best ruckman, was injured in Rd 1 and is unlikely to play this season. that takes a hell of a lot out of our midfield. When Kreuzer plays well, we usually win.
We have been very lucky that Pittonet has played as well as he has. I didn't think he had it in him, but he proved me wrong. But he is limited as a ruckman. The top rucks crap on him. We tried de Koning today and he looks to have a future, even with the mistakes he made in the last quarter.
But we are a long way behind in this department. Remember that. We do not yet have the ruck to win a premiership: Kreuzer may well be done, Pittonet is a good trier and de Koning isn't ready yet.
I'd be playing de Koning, especially in the next few weeks. He can only benefit from the experience.
{d) Our other mids are not dominating games. Not one of them. Cripps has been down and looks injured. The rest are trying to make a mark, and have improved a lot, but are not top mids yet. Nor do I know if they will ever be A-class mids. I think we could well do in poaching a top mid from another club.
Even with our mids not getting superior numbers, our clearances have generally been more effective this year. But we really need more of that and guys with some experience to stand up.
(e) Negative players: This is one of our biggest weaknesses. We have one, repeat ONE, player who can cut our star opposition mids. We need to be able to keep more of them out of the game, lest we get run over by 2nd raters like Sheed. We need to stop their best  getting the ball and we can't.
(f) Our defence has been quite good this year, although it hasn't delivered as much run as it has in the past. Docherty started off providing it, but opposition clubs have woken up to that and have curbed his influence. Simmo is not getting any younger, although  he is still going strong. Newman will miss the entire season, after providing huge amounts of run last year.
Weitering is defending beautifully, but not producing much drive and Jones has not been able to produce the drive he has in the last either.
SPS and Willo have been decent defenders, without setting the world on fire.
As teams appear to have 'worked out' our defence, I would be changing it. Cottell played well enough today. Give him a few games. Move SPS and Docherty into our centre square mix. Give them jobs and see how much run they can provide.

[3] In many ways we are very predictable in our setup. I would like to change this. I do not want opposition teams to know where our guys are going to play. This sort of thing can work, especially if it ruins opposition matchups. It worked today with Fisher.

Our list has been ravaged. It was badly damaged before we started with 4 players, 3 of our best, not being there at all. Take out 3 top players from any team and see how they handle it. Most do not.
Then take out our forward half and expect us to kick 100 points every week.
We were on a hiding to nothing when the season started. We have done better than I expected. We have beaten good teams and scared all of our opponents. That isn't bad for half a team.

There are things I would like to see from our recruiters, our coaches and our fitness people over the break:
<1> Get our whole list available. teams like Brisbane are good because they have their best players week after week.
<2> Get our coaching staff to be more adaptable. Make changes during the game. Mix the roles around. try players elsewhere if they are having a bad day. get them to play 4 quarters instead of 2 to 3.
<3> Get the sort of players we need to improve our list, by hook or by crook. We need to find the next top ruckman and get him into our colours. We need to get a top mid from elsewhere. We need to recruit like St. Kilda did last year: note where we were less than perfect and recruit to fix those problems.

Shuey, low impact, accidental, careless, no fine, play on!

Those types of acts were repeated throughout. Collectively with a little help from #22, and the game is won or lost. Seriously 😠

Maybe we need a consultant to help us play on the edge. If that's what that behavior is called.

I didnt want to use the word " jibbed " with Cripps because he isnt a repeat offender and is a brave player but all players go through a period when they lack confidence and what normally comes naturally like attacking the ball can become a thought process and he had his doubts in that marking attempt and didnt go hard enough.
Reckon you wont see that ever again...

The good:
Cottrell's first game, deserves to play next week, his turn of speed will be something special.
TDK. His 2nd qtr against NN was something for us all to get excited about.
Zachery's return. Should be a small forward for a while, quick reflexes, opportunistic goals and good defensive pressure.
Kennedy. Especially his first half. Imposed himself and took strong grabs. Coming along nicely.
Setters coming along nicely.
Walsh. Has shaken off the 2nd year blues very nicely.
Willo. Still a little fumbly, perhaps lacking a little confidence but improving slowly but surely.

The bad:
Again with the 4-7 goal turnaround, FFS. This time it was 30 pts. Sheesh, opposition sides will be scheduling their 4-7 goal run-on against us. I was deeply concerned when I saw the human Valium, Barker, talking with the mids at half time. And we started the 3rd without the intensity and tackling desperation of the first half... and this let the Weagles have a sniff.
Losing Martin.

So so:
Still not sold on Newnes.
Sammo gets dragged deep into defence and then he's rooted. Further up the ground... dangerous.
Murphy. Gets plenty and gave his all today but his occasional short steps and inability to really hurt opponents with his possessions is now an issue. Surely must retire and not get a contract renewal.
Crippa - take a deep breath and delegate, share the load. Oh, and let's take our time when shooting for goal and that missed mark... gulp, we looked a little nervous and didn't attack the aggott to ensure we marked it.

The bad:
You will seldom hear anything about umpires from me but who the fck is umpire 22? Appalling.
I repeat... the 4-7 goal run-ons. FFS

Ps When we learn to sustain our best, our tenacity re tackling, we will beat anyone, anywhere.

Cotterell was a big plus. I already knew TDK was going to be a player but did not realise how good Cotterell was. Didn't look at all out of place and kept his opponent very quiet for most of the game.

Love to see young players coming good.

Not sure why we don't play Gibbo in the middle a bit more. Our better performances seem to correlate to him spending more time on the ball from memory.

Kennedy is becoming a serious player. Love his marking - even pulls in some pack marks. He's developing so quickly.

Setterfield was good again - died out of it a bit later but who didn't.

We miss Charlie and Harry... so much. Marchbank, Kreuzer, MM, Newman, Cunners, Dow, SOS, etc. How good would it be to be playing that mob on our own home ground with every umpiring decision going our way and a fit list???

Worth noting they're premiership favourites on their own dung hill with only 1 injury and dominated inside 50s and we lost the guy who's probably top 3 in our B&F for most of the game. They always seemed to have 2 loose behind the ball and in the end the completely one sided umpiring took its toll.

I love Teague but hate that he's too nice to say anything in the media about that umpiring. In the last quarter Casboult lays a big tackle in our forward line. The WC player just lays there not moving. Makes less of an effort than Samo did - ball up. Just one of many instances.

I am generally in the anti-Murphy camp but I guess I've accepted that he just can't tackle and now I barely notice him.

Plowman was actually quite good today. We need a lot more pace off our half back line. They're all slow.

SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

Sorry, no squibs play AFL. I’ll show you a dozen times a game that he puts his body where most of us ( including yourself) would think twice. We can accuse players of plenty, they may not go 100% one hundred percent of the time...... but they aren’t squibs.

SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

Sorry but that's just a silly comment.

SPS has played some ordinary footy at times and still turns the ball over a bit too much for such a talented player but I don't know how anyone could choose him to single out after today's game. I thought he was pretty good today.

What Plowman did today typifies our culture.    Weak, Submissive.   While I compliment him for his game today btw, the team continues to show why it cannot ever become anything of substance in it's current form.  To hear Teauges presser today was to think if you hadn't seen the game, that we'd won.  He spoke of 'growth' etc.  Sounds like a Boltonism.   The truth is , yet again, and it doesn't matter WHO we play btw... because we do it again MOST sides, we go to pieces when the pressure comes and we don't know how to win.  Not enough blokes either want to, or have the capabilities to die for it.  The coach has no idea how to stop a run of goals, and this is reasonable given he is ANOTHER first year coach.  I am mentally torn apart by what this club does to it's supporters year after year and soon enough will be enough.

Have to disagree re pressure. We withstood their pressure over and over again and to me, they got a run on and we didn’t put the stopper on but in no way did I see it that we couldn’t hack the pressure. That was one pleasing part of the game, their biggest mature well drilled bodies smashed our guys time and again and we kept keeping on, until we ran out of puff.  IMO.

SPS has played some ordinary footy at times and still turns the ball over a bit too much for such a talented player but I don't know how anyone could choose him to single out after today's game. I thought he was pretty good today.

Cost us three goals but the first holding the ball was rubbish umpiring , got caught again the 2nd time and froze, 3rd time he didnt compete well enough. Also persists in kicking across ground 15-20m kicks and playing safe when we need him attacking.
Not sure why we are persisting with him down back when he is a midfielder, sure we lack pace but you hardly see him run the ball down the ground  just does those dinky kicks sideways. Got the skills but way too laconic and inconsistent down back...

Agree EB.  He is wasted down back

Cost us three goals but the first holding the ball was rubbish umpiring , got caught again the 2nd time and froze, 3rd time he didnt compete well enough. Also persists in kicking across ground 15-20m kicks and playing safe when we need him attacking.
Not sure why we are persisting with him down back when he is a midfielder, sure we lack pace but you hardly see him run the ball down the ground  just does those dinky kicks sideways. Got the skills but way too laconic and inconsistent down back...

Didn't we get him as a small forward. Maybe time to play him mid-forward again.

We had 17 F50 tackles, no frees. Eagles 5 F50 tackles for 3 frees and 2 goals.

Didn't we get him as a small forward. Maybe time to play him mid-forward again.

Jim, Frustrating player, watched him one day play as a defender and he was great, played on a decent opponent(cant remember his name) and kept him quiet, might have been Tippa, SPS only had 7 possies but played close and did the job well. Then on other days he gets lazy wont get involved and might get 20 cheap possies but also has turned the ball over numerous times and not attacked the ball or player well enough. He can do most things well, I just want him out of the backline so his mistakes dont cost.
Wing, Midfield, run down forward would suit better IMO, get a running half back who is more consistent...

We had 17 F50 tackles, no frees. Eagles 5 F50 tackles for 3 frees and 2 goals.

What are the chances?
Almost impossible, all things being equal. But wait all things weren't equal were they?

We had 17 F50 tackles, no frees. Eagles 5 F50 tackles for 3 frees and 2 goals.

That’s actually an unbelievable stat. That needs to be properly questioned with HQ.

Whilst the effort today couldn’t be questioned, it’s now obvious that we have some glaring deficiencies in our back line and our midfield composition.

Draft target number 1 should be a fast, strong lockdown defender for the Butler types.There’s no Andy Collins, Wayne Harmes or even a Jed Bews type back there and if we’re honest SPS and Docherty aren’t really natural defenders and I’d much prefer to see both around the middle. I’d love Zac Willliams from GWS, bit of urgency and intensity.

We’re also badly lacking pace and X factor around the middle of the ground and I can’t remember the last time I saw a Carlton midfielder breaking the lines with pace as opposed to brute force - Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield, Curnow, Newnes and Gibbons can all be effective but are all a bit one paced and I really don’t think we can or should play all at once. If we persist, we’ll be great in the arm wrestle, but when momentum swings we will continue to struggle to contain the outside runners. I’d be introducing Docherty, Dow, Fisher and maybe even trying Honey around the stoppages to give us some desperately needed outside run.

A midfield rotation (including wingers) as follows would better balance our side
- 1x Ruck (TDK, Pitt)
- 2x Inside (Cripps, Setters, Kennedy, Curnow, Gibbons)
- 3x Runners  (Dow, Docherty, Fisher, Cunningham, Martin, Walsh, SPS,  Honey)

As much as SPS needs to move further up the field, Murphy needs to spend more time forward as many have said - probably HFF.

In summary, whilst it’s a bit unfair I’d be going with Williamson and Cotterell back for some run and carry, Murphy forward and rotating Dow, Docherty and SPS through the middle.

I’d be giving Eddie a rest for a couple of weeks - right now we’re carrying too many

I’d go hard for Williams at GWS and Pettrucelle at WC in the off season also. Exactly what we need.

Can't fault our intent and pressure today.

WC are a mature strong side with arguably the best midfield combo.

We are losing the fitness battles this year. It's strange but I had a feeling SOJ would not return after Merrett # ribs. Levi struggled after a similar injury at the crows nest.

SOJ for me, is a bit of a barometer. He also gives us much needed flexibility. Offensively and defensively. I think he's a huge out for us.

I'd like to see Mr Russell sort out the players with repeat injuries, but haven't seen any evidence thus far. Cunners, Charlie, H, Marchy, to name a few. Imagine how many options we'd have with a fit list. Over to you Mr Russell.

That’s actually an unbelievable stat. That needs to be properly questioned with HQ.

Tackles 56 - 77
Frees 14 - 12
On its own, that's very strange if you ask me. I wonder how many frees we got for HTB (including 400° tackles), tripping (evidently tb assessed at tribunal), holding the player, knocking ball out after a mark (🐟 on wing)?
I wonder how many we got for push in back / forced out of marking contest?

Sam Petrevski-Seaton - time to be moved out of the backline ?

Have other teams have worked Sam out, I suspect so!  Sam often retains possession while picking out a team mate to pass the ball too. It has been commented that "he makes time stand still" . A great skill, but not good if he is regularly being caught with the ball down back.              

cheers Ab

We're bit depleted. gave a good account of ourselves against the possible flag favorite but we ran out of puff in the end. We've shown we can take on the best and match them, even beat them but in-game consistency is our big issue. Suppose it happens when you're building but it's something for the pre-season big time. We have to be able to close a game down when the other side has momentum. We're 4-6, what could we have been but for that. At the end of round 10 we were equal leaders with Port and Brisbane for qtrs won. Makes the in-game inconsistency stand out more.

Next 2 games we have to win just to show we've made great gains. 6-6 would be a decent outcome.

So much is there ability wise... but there is still something above the shoulders that causes critical lapses then the lack of leadership to change gears.

However, for a side missing key personnel, today's performance was yet another... brace yourself... honourable loss... And aren't we all sick and tired of hearing that!

I'd like to see Mr Russell sort out the players with repeat injuries, but haven't seen any evidence thus far. Cunners, Charlie, H, Marchy, to name a few. Imagine how many options we'd have with a fit list. Over to you Mr Russell.

Maybe Mr Russell needs a bit of scrutiny?...not just on the injury front.

Maybe Mr Russell needs a bit of scrutiny?...not just on the injury front.

I'm having some real doubts about him.

I'm having some real doubts about him.

Obviously this is a season unlike others.
But we seem to be at a stage where we lack size and strength.
Our bigger players are still often beaten in physical contests.
The bigger guys also seem to have a fair share of injuries.
We're surrendering leads on a regular basis.

Obviously this is a season unlike others.
But we seem to be at a stage where we lack size and strength.
Our bigger players are still often beaten in physical contests.
The bigger guys also seem to have a fair share of injuries.
We're surrendering leads on a regular basis.

I commented on our size today to my daughter at the end of the game when Murph and Shuey where talking, the difference in mass between the two was very noticable (arms/biceps, shoulders neck).
Having said that, I think its a little hard to blame Russell for injuries that occur during games, these are gonna happen (eg Martin). Even the chandeliers like Marchbank, Charlie, Cunningham etc, Russell is widely regarded as the best in the business yet...

WC 23rd player today was #22 Nathan Williams. According to BT that is.

FWIW He began his career in Mandurah, just south of Perth, aged 12yrs. He became a regular WAFL umpire.

I commented on our size today to my daughter at the end of the game when Murph and Shuey where talking, the difference in mass between the two was very noticable (arms/biceps, shoulders neck).
Having said that, I think its a little hard to blame Russell for injuries that occur during games, these are gonna happen (eg Martin). Even the chandeliers like Marchbank, Charlie, Cunningham etc, Russell is widely regarded as the best in the business yet...

We have a very good record for destroying the reputations of some of the 'best  in the business' ;)  :D

Teague's a nice talker in his post match pressers, getting better week by week.

You can tell from the way he speaks that he is for the players and the club, it's not just lip service like some, he really means it!

Glad he hasn't bought into the umpiring shizen.

While I bang on about Clarkson, Dimma and Scott, I don't want our bloke doing the same but rather I want Scott, Clarkson and Dimma fined into AFL oblivion. Mind you, I hope Teague's diplomatic approach doesn't mean we(The Club) aren't seeking clarification through official channels, and I'd be happy for Teague to parrot the "AFL's Official Response" to any clarification request in a presser, without necessarily bagging umpires or individual decisions. The problems that I see are the AFL's faceless men and the overtly manipulative coaches.

If the reported tackles inside F50 are as above,  this must be called out to all and sundry.   If it's not blatant umpiring bias,  it's sanctioned cheating and we're all over it.   All us fans want is consistency and a level playing field. Is that unreasonable in "sport"?

Teague's a nice talker in his post match pressers, getting better week by week.

You can tell from the way he speaks that he is for the players and the club, it's not just lip service like some, he really means it!

Glad he hasn't bought into the umpiring shizen.

While I bang on about Clarkson, Dimma and Scott, I don't want our bloke doing the same but rather I want Scott, Clarkson and Dimma fined into AFL oblivion. Mind you, I hope Teague's diplomatic approach doesn't mean we(The Club) aren't seeking clarification through official channels, and I'd be happy for Teague to parrot the "AFL's Official Response" to any clarification request in a presser, without necessarily bagging umpires or individual decisions. The problems that I see are the AFL's faceless men and the overtly manipulative coaches.

It’s a Teague directive that we don’t go back and put it on opposition players who make a mistake, just celebrate our success from the blunder.  Also, many are having a crack at Plowman for his reaction to the 50 meter penalty, but again that’s the Teague way. If that’s the culture we are promoting, I’m fine with that. Reflects Teague’s playing era, courageous, non compromising but fair.

We had 17 F50 tackles, no frees. Eagles 5 F50 tackles for 3 frees and 2 goals.

I nearly fell through my clacker when I read that stat. The club should demand a 'please explain'. That is beyond a statistical anomaly... that is simply shocking. I wouldn't mind betting that behind the scenes there is a fair bit going on.

Like to see umpire 22s report sheet including frees paid that shouldn't have been, frees not paid that should have been, 50/50 decisions and which way they went and where all the frees and non-frees took place.

So, im just going to say the following.

Why do we have to play PERFECT football when our opponents can hold and scrag illegally, mark intefere, drop the footy, tackle before we have even taken posession of the footy, and its play on, or ball up.

Daisy called a few out yesterday.  That second goal West Coast were given was for a non existant holding the ball on SPS, and a phantom 50 metre penalty to put Darling directly in front.

I still dont know what that entire passage of play was for.  They didnt replay it, and the commentators actually pointed out the differences for once.  Daisy agreed with SPS second holding the ball, but fork me he picked the  ball up, and stepped backwards and then was wrapped up from behind before he could do anything.

Levi gets two hands in the back, play on.  In a ruck contest, his opponent wraps his arms round him, whilst he pushes off his chest, and its a illegal hold against Levi...

I am sick to death of this crap.  21 vs 18 every week, and they gave us the rub of the green for one quarter against Clarko last week, before reverting to punishing us at every opportunity.

West Coasts 5 goal run on?

Dropping the ball out of the centre.
Illegal blocking out of the centre.
Plowman tackled off the ball by Darling (cant drag him to ground and call it a shepherd).
liam Ryan drops the ball to advantage (should have been holding the ball).

Theres your 4 goal run on.  Argue with me if you want to, but when the opposition are gifted the league, you cant ask us to take it back every week.  Its pathetic.

Afl
10 v 18 tackles i50

18 of 77 tackles i50 is a great sign of our pressure, and we won i50 count and turnovers. CP 120 v 116. We did a lot right.
9 v 3 marks i50 hurts. Not surprising given fwd stocks v premiership backs

Afl
10 v 18 tackles i50

18 of 77 tackles i50 is a great sign of our pressure, and we won i50 count and turnovers. CP 120 v 116. We did a lot right.
9 v 3 marks i50 hurts. Not surprising given fwd stocks v premiership backs

Watching the game and not looking at stats, we were getting it in time after time without taking a mark or getting reward. They seemed to mark it every time it went in (especially that run of 5 goals unanswered). Again, dont want to be negative but that 14 out of 21 games now we have allowed a 5 goal run, this one single thing is driving me nuts. And it happens vs the top teams and bottom teams. Forget umpires, forget injuries, forget youth, we have rectified alot of things but this one we havent and we could easily be 6-4 instead of 4-6, extremely costly.

Types like SPS, Murphy, Plowman etc are watched under a microscope each week while others especially the bang and crash types are given a pass and BS excuses when they are not performing to expected levels.

Cripps is our captain and we all know how hard he is but the fact is he shirked a marking contest 10 metres out and still never kicks a easy 30 metre set shot when we need it. He was  slaughtered in the middle in the third quarter when the game was on the line and was caught too slow to react while WC mids strolled out of the middle without any pressure. He is out only true proven superstar and yet had not really influenced one game this year, yet most say oh he must be injured or poor bloke is trying to do it all, while most blame the usual half a dozen ‘culprits‘ to all our losses.

No one should not be immune to criticism especially a bloke the team is supposed to be drawing inspiration from.

No one should not be immune to criticism especially a bloke the team is supposed to be drawing inspiration from.

Agreed.

However, I still think something is not right with Cripps, be it physical or mental something is not holding up.

Even worse, at the moment he is garnishing pity commentary from the so called "specialist" AFL commentators, which is even more grating!

Is he still that marquee player we expect, or are they deliberately talking him down in the hope of gaining his signature, is it Cripps tenure at Carlton that is being undermined?

I sure as hell hope it's not some stupid internal club tactic to reduce his re-signing value, but I wouldn't put it past Liddle, Lloyd and our club as it has a lot of recent history regarding abject stupidity!

Cripps has been carrying the team largely unaided since Judd retired.

One average season (note its not poor, he has played as many good games as anyone else, but has played more games this season where he hasnt played 4 quarters than he ever has before) doesnt really make it a reversal of trend.

Most of the guys being potted are serial offenders and have a couple of these moments every week.  Hence why Cripps few stuff ups are standing out.

Types like SPS, Murphy, Plowman etc are watched under a microscope each week while others especially the bang and crash types are given a pass and BS excuses when they are not performing to expected levels.

Cripps is our captain and we all know how hard he is but the fact is he shirked a marking contest 10 metres out and still never kicks a easy 30 metre set shot when we need it. He was  slaughtered in the middle in the third quarter when the game was on the line and was caught too slow to react while WC mids strolled out of the middle without any pressure. He is out only true proven superstar and yet had not really influenced one game this year, yet most say oh he must be injured or poor bloke is trying to do it all, while most blame the usual half a dozen ‘culprits‘ to all our losses.

No one should not be immune to criticism especially a bloke the team is supposed to be drawing inspiration from.

Not me, even at the risk of "shooting bambi and her mother", I have mentioned more than once that the 2 captains have at times not showed the leadership required in the heat of the battle. Cripps misses too many shots at goal, its the one knock on his game. Doc has sprayed a couple of kicks at critical times. Both have done little on the ground to stop 5 goal runs (and by that I mean on ground coaching and instructing/revving up). Having said that, despite Crippa not having as stellar year as other years, we have been in games up to our ears with others taking the load, Kennedy did a fine job yesterday in the middle. In fact, he should be the one to push forward as he can take a telling mark and convert quite regularly (as we saw last year). To be clear, I am not suggesting the two skippers are the cause of our problems, just stating that they are not above criticism.

To be clear, I am not suggesting the two skippers are the cause of our problems, just stating that they are not above criticism.

Yes, it's a fair observation you made above.

I like what I'm seeing from Kennedy as well, he might not be a thoroughbred but he has some polish under pressure that quite a few of our "hot potato" types do not display.

We must be close to the #1 team for selling team-mates into trouble with hospital hand-passes!

We had 17 F50 tackles, no frees. Eagles 5 F50 tackles for 3 frees and 2 goals.

That is an awful stat that I hope we bring up. Apparently We are talking with the Umps this week. Again.

I'm not a big fan of all the SPS and sMurph bashing going around, they are being penalised for picking up the footy.

There is nothing they can do about it when the AFL rewards rock spiders and dry humpers, many of them 15cm taller and 15kg heavier than the little guy attacking the football!

When crowds return, I think "Humper ... Humper ... Humper" might be my new derogatory call for the gutless tacklers! They are like 100kg rat terriers that want to hump everything than passes within reach then steal the prize!

These big blokes aren't top predators like tigers or lions, they are more like a hyena, vulcer or bush pig, scavenging somebody else's hard work!

I'm not a big fan of all the SPS and sMurph bashing going around, they are being penalised for picking up the footy.

There is nothing they can do about it when the AFL rewards rock spiders and dry humpers, many of them 15cm taller and 15kg heavier than the little guy attacking the football!

When crowds return, I think "Humper ... Humper ... Humper" might be my new derogatory call for the gutless tacklers! They are like 100kg rat terriers that want to hump everything than passes within reach then steal the prize!

These big blokes aren't top predators like tigers or lions, they are more like a hyena, vulcer or bush pig, scavenging somebody else's hard work!

SPS and Murphy cop it through inconsistent attack on the ball, player, and lack of intensity when the game is on the line.
The game is more contested than ever before, you can't carry players who won't  put the body on the line and pull up short in contests or hang back.
Size helps but Kade Simpson has shown its about attitude and wanting to risk all to win the ball. We also have too many nice boys who won't mongrel up when required..
We need a SPP not a SPS and a Brayden Maynard enforcer type who can provide that physical presence. I'm all for getting Zac Williams but without the other types I mentioned it will be more of the same with teams over powering and intimidating us.

Size helps but Kade Simpson has shown its about attitude and wanting to risk all to win the ball. We also have too many nice boys who won't mongrel up when required..

Sorry, I realise I'm potting somebody's hero.

But Simmo is a very very limited example, sure he is brave, goes hard at the footy, cleans up in one on ones a lot. But far far too often he does all that then delivers the ball straight back to the opposition 45m away, he is so predictable opponents read his disposal like a street map, and they then score via another avenue!

We need a SPP not a SPS and a Brayden Maynard enforcer type who can provide that physical presence. I'm all for getting Zac Williams but without the other types I mentioned it will be more of the same with teams over powering and intimidating us.

I think I'd be waiting to see what we get out of Stocker, Honey, Philp and Kemp before I blow my wad on an import.

@ElwoodBlues1  What did you think of Cottrell and De Koning?

I wonder how many we got for push in back / forced out of marking contest?

Every time Cas went within 30m of the ball..............

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/10/the-familiar-way-carlton-lose-and-how-they-can-fix-it/

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/10/the-familiar-way-carlton-lose-and-how-they-can-fix-it/

Exactly what I said about the captains being onfield coaches/instructors to call changes to plays and structures when run of opo goals happen. This article gives the details for it.

SPS no doubt from time to time demonstrates that he is a very skilled player and can sometimes pull out a sublime disposal to a team mate in the clear. However, for the type of player he is, imo he just doesn't do that anywhere near often enough and as a result his impact on games is modest, i.e he has not yet shown himself to be capable of greatly influencing, at least in a positive way, the outcomes of games. May be it's because of the role he is currently playing. I would like to see him in a more "mission critical" role where he might have a much bigger impact in winning games and not floating around in defence and producing mostly non penetrating/damaging disposals from there.

Sorry, I realise I'm potting somebody's hero.

But Simmo is a very very limited example, sure he is brave, goes hard at the footy, cleans up in one on ones a lot. But far far too often he does all that then delivers the ball straight back to the opposition 45m away, he is so predictable opponents read his disposal like a street map, and they then score via another avenue!
I think I'd be waiting to see what we get out of Stocker, Honey, Philp and Kemp before I blow my wad on an import.

@ElwoodBlues1  What did you think of Cottrell and De Koning?

None of those players are the physical nutters you need to make up the tapestry of a team, problem with getting those types is you need players who can actually play a bit as well as impose themselves.

re: DeKoning....very impressive as he has been everytime I see him, competed well vs Nicnat and has ability below his knees to get the ball and dish out a decent handball. Overhead marking wasnt easy for anyone so the couple he dropped were no big deal.
I'd be playing him for the remaining rounds......
re: Cottrell......seen him at U18 level and wasnt impressed but he did well and I liked the way he went after the footy, being lighter he got pushed off the ball but he got back up and had some good second efforts. Not bad skills by foot and from memory had Gaff as an opponent. I didnt think Gaff was that effective even though the stats suggest he had a good game so points to Cottrell for taking the edge off Gaffs game. Would play him next week for sure and give him another job, the one issue we probably have is that if you start playing too many players like Curnow, Cottrell who are really negative only types you can find yourself being ultra defensive and lacking flair but to be fair to the kid you can only do what the coach says and I reckon Teague would be pleased with his application.

Interesting article.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/10/the-familiar-way-carlton-lose-and-how-they-can-fix-it/?adobe_mc=TS%3D1597027093%7CMCMID%3D06715522037446569265025884517402897478%7CMCORGID%3D33BA6CB25D93613E0A495EF3%40AdobeOrg&fbclid=IwAR3ppGw5UAwqbt7Q_C1fqwqBB-hFYUtjJoqmK_wGnsMktRj-4PhzTm0GUvY

The umpires are criminals, it wasn't just the holding the ball decisions, there was also the out on the full recall and the Curnow trip.
If you look at the age profile of the WCE midfield, Yeo 26, Gaff 28, Kelly 26, Shuey 30 Sheed 25, Naitanui 30, Redden 29 and Allen 21, to the Carlton midfield, Walsh 20, Cripps 25, Curnow 30, Murphy 33, Setterfield 22, Kennedy 23, Pittonet 24, DeKonning 21, other than Allen, the WCE players are all in their prime, while Murphy is towards the end and if he is replaced by Dow or Kemp,  then it easy to see that the Carlton midfield is two to three seasons from being in the elite and about four or five seasons away from being unstoppable.
If we had brought this effort last week against Hawthorn then we would have won by between five and ten goals. It was a good response to a very good team, in a hostile environment where things didn't go our way. I thought it was good that Betts was further up the ground this week enabling him to give his  leadership and experience to the team. Considering, Silvagni, Kreuzer, Newman and Charlie are out for the season, McKay, McGovern and Cuningham are injured and we lost Martin during the game, while Dow and Marchbank were coming back from injuries in the twos, it demonstrates we are starting to build depth in our squad.
I can follow Carlton when they have a go, but I can't if they don't try like last match.

Notice Geelong are "resting" Dangerfield from midfield duties by playing him deep forward. Should we do that with Cripps for a couple of weeks?

Notice Geelong are "resting" Dangerfield from midfield duties by playing him deep forward. Should we do that with Cripps for a couple of weeks?

Only problem is Danger hits the scoreboard, Cripps doesnt.

Interesting “Access All Areas” on the AFL website today. Examines and compares 6 “holding the ball” scenarios that ALL went against Carlton. The only consistency was ruling against the Blues. Better not watch it Baggers because it will make your blood boil.

Interesting “Access All Areas” on the AFL website today. Examines and compares 6 “holding the ball” scenarios that ALL went against Carlton. The only consistency was ruling against the Blues. Better not watch it Baggers because it will make your blood boil.

Here's my point of view on yesterday's game, despite the terrible umpiring against us, I was a lot more calm during and after the game compared to the Haw game the week before. We took it right up to a contender and if not for a poor 10-15mins, we would have won.

With all these blokes going forward we won't have many left in the Midfield/backline. ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

But you know, if we ever reach the stage  where the seasons done and dusted for us, and if we had a tall back-up defender I wouldn't mind seeing Jones switched to the forward line for a bit of an experiment.
The reasoning is... we could do with a tall swingman who could play both ends.
We struggle with responses at the moment when the opposition gets a run on.
We need to develop a few tricks of our own

You would know in a game or two whether Jones has learnt a bit playing on some of the competitions best forwards.
His marking on the weekend was strong ...and we finally have a few small forwards who might be able to make something of the chaos he sometimes creates.

It may be that he proves to be as ineffective as his previous stints forward but if we've nothing  to lose give it a go.

With all these blokes going forward we won't have many left in the Midfield/backline. ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

But you know, if we ever reach the stage  where the seasons done and dusted for us, and if we had a tall back-up defender I wouldn't mind seeing Jones switched to the forward line for a bit of an experiment.
The reasoning is... we could do with a tall swingman who could play both ends.
We struggle with responses at the moment when the opposition gets a run on.
We need to develop a few tricks of our own

You would know in a game or two whether Jones has learnt a bit playing on some of the competitions best forwards.
His marking on the weekend was strong ...and we finally have a few small forwards who might be able to make something of the chaos he sometimes creates.

It may be that he proves to be as ineffective as his previous stints forward but if we've nothing  to lose give it a go.

The season is over, we would need to win 5 of the next 7 plus other results go our way, aint gonna happen so experiment away I say.

With all these blokes going forward we won't have many left in the Midfield/backline. ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

But you know, if we ever reach the stage  where the seasons done and dusted for us, and if we had a tall back-up defender I wouldn't mind seeing Jones switched to the forward line for a bit of an experiment.
The reasoning is... we could do with a tall swingman who could play both ends.
We struggle with responses at the moment when the opposition gets a run on.
We need to develop a few tricks of our own

You would know in a game or two whether Jones has learnt a bit playing on some of the competitions best forwards.
His marking on the weekend was strong ...and we finally have a few small forwards who might be able to make something of the chaos he sometimes creates.

It may be that he proves to be as ineffective as his previous stints forward but if we've nothing  to lose give it a go.

As for Jones going fwd, I dont think effort, endeavour or marking the thing will be a problem, I think his kicking for goal would be a problem

As for Jones going fwd, I dont think effort, endeavour or marking the thing will be a problem, I think his kicking for goal would be a problem

You may be right...I'm probably thinking more about the opportunities he could create for players like Betts, Fisher and Martin.
And going ahead you would see it more a 'switch' role.
Something you would try mid-game if you needed to shake things up.
He's not SOS....but it was a tactic we used to try with Silvagni at times, often with success.
McGovern v Jones...I'm not sure we'd lose a lot.

With all these blokes going forward we won't have many left in the Midfield/backline. ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

But you know, if we ever reach the stage  where the seasons done and dusted for us, and if we had a tall back-up defender I wouldn't mind seeing Jones switched to the forward line for a bit of an experiment.
The reasoning is... we could do with a tall swingman who could play both ends.
We struggle with responses at the moment when the opposition gets a run on.
We need to develop a few tricks of our own

You would know in a game or two whether Jones has learnt a bit playing on some of the competitions best forwards.
His marking on the weekend was strong ...and we finally have a few small forwards who might be able to make something of the chaos he sometimes creates.

It may be that he proves to be as ineffective as his previous stints forward but if we've nothing  to lose give it a go.

I subscribe to the "if it aint broke dont fix it" with Jones, dont want to play him forward then he loses it and goes back to the old flaky Jones.
Your swingman is Kemp....great mark and nice kick...

You may be right...I'm probably thinking more about the opportunities he could create for players like Betts, Fisher and Martin.
And going ahead you would see it more a 'switch' role.
Something you would try mid-game if you needed to shake things up.
He's not SOS....but it was a tactic we used to try with Silvagni at times, often with success.
McGovern v Jones...I'm not sure we'd lose a lot.

Fair call

Here's my point of view on yesterday's game, despite the terrible umpiring against us, I was a lot more calm during and after the game compared to the Haw game the week before. We took it right up to a contender and if not for a poor 10-15mins, we would have won.

I felt the same. Realised it was because we weren’t expected to win, yet Hawks game talked up all week that we would 🙄

Opposite for me.  I was extremely annoyed with our inability to be effectie last week but half expected it.

The West coast game felt very much like we were expected to play with one hand behind our back, and I couldn't help but think this isn't  fair contest and not because West coast were a better side.

Opposite for me.  I was extremely annoyed with our inability to be effectie last week but half expected it.

The West coast game felt very much like we were expected to play with one hand behind our back, and I couldn't help but think this isn't  fair contest and not because West coast were a better side.

I agree about us getting a hard ride. It’s frustrating, we just want to watch an evenly officiated game.  The stats speak for themselves and we deserve an explanation.

How Curnows was deliberate, when he was up against the boundary and kicked 50m in and it then dribbled out, is just an illogical ridiculous call.

I can’t Believe umpires care who wins or try to help someone win, but something is not right with the way our games are officiated.

Only problem is Danger hits the scoreboard, Cripps doesnt.

If he gets a few shots you hope he'd nail a couple at least. Throws the opposition out as he can take a good grab (although I wonder about his shoulder). We showed last year we played ok when Cripps was out so hope the rest of the mids stand up.

Just a thought.

Bet he's thinking that dropping weight wasn't such a great idea now.

If he gets a few shots you hope he'd nail a couple at least. Throws the opposition out as he can take a good grab (although I wonder about his shoulder). We showed last year we played ok when Cripps was out so hope the rest of the mids stand up.

Just a thought.

Bet he's thinking that dropping weight wasn't such a great idea now.

Agree. Reckon there'll be a bit more gym time for Crippa over the pre season... plus more of mama's home made pasta!

Agree. Reckon there'll be a bit more gym time for Crippa over the pre season... plus more of mama's home made pasta!

If its weight he needs to gain, I can train him in that area easily, this covid period has not been kind.

If its weight he needs to gain, I can train him in that area easily, this covid period has not been kind.

 :))  :)) I know that feeling... I just thought my feet were shrinking (when I looked down). Sweets cupboard has been nailed shut... exercise routine increased.

Interesting “Access All Areas” on the AFL website today. Examines and compares 6 “holding the ball” scenarios that ALL went against Carlton. The only consistency was ruling against the Blues. Better not watch it Baggers because it will make your blood boil.

They missed the one from Nic Nat, early, when he took the ball out of the ruck, tackled (free, i believe??), went to kick, missed his foot (def free!!).  i think in front of our goals

If its weight he needs to gain, I can train him in that area easily, this covid period has not been kind.

As long as the roof over the toolshed isn't blocking your line of sight...haha.

Don't mind this article. The one main issue, the 30pts shifts, as to why we aren't nicely entrenched in the 8.

One of them brought up the fact there is so few training sessions we don't get to work on slowing momentum shifts. We often can't train the whole side as a group. Big focus next year.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-greats-divided-over-immature-carltons-momentum-c-1227727?fbclid=IwAR1wvpLh_C_VMET-OLtd-AhBqYh45RURUb-aqcdz4NL11s5NnwG95psw2tg

Interesting stat.

:))  :)) I know that feeling... I just thought my feet were shrinking (when I looked down). Sweets cupboard has been nailed shut... exercise routine increased.

Same

Don't mind this article. The one main issue, the 30pts shifts, as to why we aren't nicely entrenched in the 8.

One of them brought up the fact there is so few training sessions we don't get to work on slowing momentum shifts. We often can't train the whole side as a group. Big focus next year.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-greats-divided-over-immature-carltons-momentum-c-1227727?fbclid=IwAR1wvpLh_C_VMET-OLtd-AhBqYh45RURUb-aqcdz4NL11s5NnwG95psw2tg

They make a lot of assumptions about what Teague and the players are thinking.

FWIW, I get the impression Teague was mostly fighting against our players not wanting to keep up the level of attack he wants, in that they are going into their shell a bit and that opens the door to the opponents to score without us firing a shot or answering the call. It sort of makes sense, a lot of our guys might still shell shocked from the events of the last few years.

I have no doubt the Carlton player head space is a huge issue, much bigger than overcoming any physical boundaries!

Interesting stat.

Enough to make your blood boil. I trust Teague, Cain and Co. are drawing the AFL's attention to this stat... forcefully. It's not as if we don't get it in there often ...which makes the stat even more damning.

Don't mind this article. The one main issue, the 30pts shifts, as to why we aren't nicely entrenched in the 8.

One of them brought up the fact there is so few training sessions we don't get to work on slowing momentum shifts. We often can't train the whole side as a group. Big focus next year.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-greats-divided-over-immature-carltons-momentum-c-1227727?fbclid=IwAR1wvpLh_C_VMET-OLtd-AhBqYh45RURUb-aqcdz4NL11s5NnwG95psw2tg

Good piece, for mine it's the leadership thing... someone stands up, holds up play and takes charge - between the lugholes stuff. Should be a mantra - opposition score two in succession, we slow play until we answer with a major.

I think we have both a mental and physical issue at the moment. We appear to run out of legs a bit after our initial onslaught in games and this causes a loss of concentration and focus due to that fatigue. I suspect it is a result of not knowing how to control the pace of a game - when to let rip and and when to shut up shop for a while. May reflect a lack of on field nous/leadership which we have discussed before. If we could control the pace of games better I think we would generally perform better. Teams see us tiring and then hit us atm.

Good piece, for mine it's the leadership thing... someone stands up, holds up play and takes charge - between the lugholes stuff. Should be a mantra - opposition score two in succession, we slow play until we answer with a major.

Hard bit too is not being able to train for it. Not many sessions with so many games and even then you can't train with your full squad often. There's things you can do like putting an extra behind the ball, a forward becoming and extra mid, slowing the game down, which we should do, but there's nothing like being able to properly develop that structure like 2nd nature at training. It's the one thing this year stopping is being properly entrenched in the 8.

I think we have both a mental and physical issue at the moment. We appear to run out of legs a bit after our initial onslaught in games and this causes a loss of concentration and focus due to that fatigue. I suspect it is a result of not knowing how to control the pace of a game - when to let rip and and when to shut up shop for a while. May reflect a lack of on field nous/leadership which we have discussed before. If we could control the pace of games better I think we would generally perform better. Teams see us tiring and then hit us atm.

Agree...our captains are good footballers but inexperienced captains, a player like Hodge would have slowed the game, and positioned his troops in our close games. The two years he had at Brisbane are paying off now I reckon and they now how to both rally when headed and close off games better than we do.

I think we have both a mental and physical issue at the moment. We appear to run out of legs a bit after our initial onslaught in games and this causes a loss of concentration and focus due to that fatigue.

The media put that very question to Teague a few weeks back and he said outright that fitness wasn't an issue at all and we had plenty of fitness to run games out. In effect he was adamant it was a mindset issue.

May reflect a lack of on field nous/leadership which we have discussed before. If we could control the pace of games better I think we would generally perform better.

I agree about his, the inability to control the pace, but I'm not convinced it is fitness / fatigue related due to the reasons given above.

We do have an issue with leg-speed, we aren't demonstrating that we are fast enough to chase down, and we aren't big or strong enough to lock in. Maybe the MC has a part to play in this regard to get the balance right.

@LP
Teague may have said that LP, but from my seat, admittedly on the couch, they looked like they tired to me and then lost focus.

Good piece, for mine it's the leadership thing... someone stands up, holds up play and takes charge - between the lugholes stuff. Should be a mantra - opposition score two in succession, we slow play until we answer with a major.

Yep, this is whats giving me the absolute craps. Its a pandemic, its not once or twice, 14 farken games out of 21!!! WTF.

Yep, this is whats giving me the absolute craps. Its a pandemic, its not once or twice, 14 farken games out of 21!!! WTF.

Yep, aint fckn rocket science.

Agree...our captains are good footballers but inexperienced captains, a player like Hodge would have slowed the game, and positioned his troops in our close games. The two years he had at Brisbane are paying off now I reckon and they now how to both rally when headed and close off games better than we do.

I remember reading once that when Hodgy spoke, people listened. He would go to the centre bounce after the opo got a bit of a run and say "we get the next goal" and the teamates knew it was non negotiable. That comes with experience and a strong culture.

I remember reading once that when Hodgy spoke, people listened. He would go to the centre bounce after the opo got a bit of a run and say "we get the next goal" and the teamates knew it was non negotiable. That comes with experience and a strong culture.

GTC that requires a leader with a BIG presence. Have we got that yet?

Interesting stat.

Damned frightening. And I bet we are NOT on the bottom of the ladder for tackles inside 50!

GTC that requires a leader with a BIG presence. Have we got that yet?

IMO no, it requires someone with a heap of kent in him which Hodgy had in spades. Our blokes are nice guys, too nice. I cant say this with any certainty but at present, I can't imagine our skippers striking fear into the troops like Hodgy would have. I read last week that Coniglio recently read his players the riot act and tore strips off them during the half time break. He told them they were playing selfish footy and it needed to stop... and it did. One the of senior GWS players said it was a defining moment in his captaincy. Perhaps Cogs went from nice guy to kent in a single moment. One of Doc or Crippa need to develop a ruthless mean streak and kent up when things are going right.

Cripps is a BIG presence...He's a 'lead by example' guy much like Judd.
The question is 'When he talks does it impact?' ...and for us on the outside that's an unknown
One of the issues may be that age and experience wise Cripps is still behind a few.
It may also be that because we run a dual captaincy there may be some subtle and unconscious division amongst the players as to who is the key driver of the side.
You often get the impression with Cripps, in our bad losses and turn arounds, that he's really frustrated.
And that frustration may stem more from his inability to drag the players along with him.

Just in case anyone wasnt p!55ed off enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6UCJ6FP3_k

You either have presence or you dont IMO, its hard to manufacture....young captains like Sticks, Carey had it...Hurn has it but in a quiet way, he isnt a " kent" on the field and is rarely in any skirmishes but when he speaks you can tell the WC players respect him and he is one player if you notice the opposition never mess with physically or mentally, there is just something about him that says presence.
Pendlebury is a fantastic footballer and probably will go down in history as one of Collingwoods greatest but he doesnt have it IMO and one of the reasons Collingwood cant go to the next level is their lack of standout leaders.
Max Gawn....big man but no presence....
Cripps I am undecided on, but Docherty isnt my idea of a captain with presence, I'm not a fan of dual captains, to me it says we dont have one person qualified or with all the characteristics required to do the job on their own.

You either have presence or you dont IMO, its hard to manufacture....young captains like Sticks, Carey had it...Hurn has it but in a quiet way, he isnt a " kent" on the field and is rarely in any skirmishes but when he speaks you can tell the WC players respect him and he is one player if you notice the opposition never mess with physically or mentally, there is just something about him that says presence.
Pendlebury is a fantastic footballer and probably will go down in history as one of Collingwoods greatest but he doesnt have it IMO and one of the reasons Collingwood cant go to the next level is their lack of standout leaders.
Max Gawn....big man but no presence....
Cripps I am undecided on, but Docherty isnt my idea of a captain with presence, I'm not a fan of dual captains, to me it says we dont have one person qualified or with all the characteristics required to do the job on their own.

EB when I said kent, I didnt mean get into fights, king hit behind play, bump players into point posts, I meant being relentless and ruthless with your teamates demanding the highest standards. When you deliver a message, they need to know you mean business, non negotiable. If Cripps or Doc dont demand the highest standards of themselves (ie "practice what you preach"), that's another matter and in that case we're farked. What I am describing above we dont know first hand, only the players do. We  only see the end product. Also, lets not pretend crap lists with no ability can be led to victory by a Captain made up of Jack Dyer, EJ, Big Nic, Sticks, Lethal and Carey. Cotchin doesnt come across as having presence and kent, but to me he must have it judging by the way the play, that's also their coach which is another matter.

You either have presence or you dont IMO, its hard to manufacture....young captains like Sticks, Carey had it...Hurn has it but in a quiet way, he isnt a " kent" on the field and is rarely in any skirmishes but when he speaks you can tell the WC players respect him and he is one player if you notice the opposition never mess with physically or mentally, there is just something about him that says presence.
Pendlebury is a fantastic footballer and probably will go down in history as one of Collingwoods greatest but he doesnt have it IMO and one of the reasons Collingwood cant go to the next level is their lack of standout leaders.
Max Gawn....big man but no presence....
Cripps I am undecided on, but Docherty isnt my idea of a captain with presence, I'm not a fan of dual captains, to me it says we dont have one person qualified or with all the characteristics required to do the job on their own.

Cripps has shown plenty as a leader. For some reason he is down this year. Think at times he's tried to take too much on himself, got it wrong. Think he's down on confidence right now and it's carried though to his leadership. Last year, a real on-field leader.

Cripps idea of a down year is 85%  of players good year.

Cripps has shown plenty as a leader. For some reason he is down this year. Think at times he's tried to take too much on himself, got it wrong. Think he's down on confidence right now and it's carried though to his leadership. Last year, a real on-field leader.

Cripps idea of a down year is 85%  of players good year.

Again, in my mind, you don't need to be the teams gun player, think Nick Maxwell. Nowhere near the best player, but was ruthless from what I am told.

You either have presence or you dont IMO, its hard to manufacture....young captains like Sticks, Carey had it...Hurn has it but in a quiet way, he isnt a " kent" on the field and is rarely in any skirmishes but when he speaks you can tell the WC players respect him and he is one player if you notice the opposition never mess with physically or mentally, there is just something about him that says presence.
Pendlebury is a fantastic footballer and probably will go down in history as one of Collingwoods greatest but he doesnt have it IMO and one of the reasons Collingwood cant go to the next level is their lack of standout leaders.
Max Gawn....big man but no presence....
Cripps I am undecided on, but Docherty isnt my idea of a captain with presence, I'm not a fan of dual captains, to me it says we dont have one person qualified or with all the characteristics required to do the job on their own.

EB1... such an important post. And right on the money. Leadership presence is a very, very real thing.

When Hodge went to BrisVegas... well, the evidence is there.

I cannot think of a Premiership side that had a 'nice' Skipper. Remember, this is a gladiatorial sport.

Our entire side, for decades, has relied on coaches/runners for direction & leadership... no-one stepped up to be the ruthless on-field leader, except maybe for Juddy, by example.

Crippa is, as a leader, nice... Doc doesn't have a hair out of place, impeccable. Terrific blokes, terrific players.

But who is the leader who reads the game, demands change, is uncompromising in his instructions? Who commands respect simply by his actions/voice/presence? This is a serious question. Hint... it aint Simmo, he was raised on failure but is a great of our club through times of deep failure.

So, who is, or who should be, or who should be recruited, to be a bona fide on-field leader - presence & brains ahead of example, please.

EB1... such an important post. And right on the money. Leadership presence is a very, very real thing.

When Hodge went to BrisVegas... well, the evidence is there.

I cannot think of a Premiership side that had a 'nice' Skipper. Remember, this is a gladiatorial sport.

Our entire side, for decades, has relied on coaches/runners for direction & leadership... no-one stepped up to be the ruthless on-field leader, except maybe for Juddy, by example.

Crippa is, as a leader, nice... Doc doesn't have a hair out of place, impeccable. Terrific blokes, terrific players.

But who is the leader who reads the game, demands change, is uncompromising in his instructions? Who commands respect simply by his actions/voice/presence? This is a serious question. Hint... it aint Simmo, he was raised on failure but is a great of our club through times of deep failure.

So, who is, or who should be, or who should be recruited, to be a bona fide on-field leader - presence & brains ahead of example, please.

Doc is a strange one, He has spent two years as a "coach" during his knee rehab and from all reports, has a great footy brain and reads/sees the game better than most, a senior coach in waiting. And yet...

EB1... such an important post. And right on the money. Leadership presence is a very, very real thing.

When Hodge went to BrisVegas... well, the evidence is there.

I cannot think of a Premiership side that had a 'nice' Skipper. Remember, this is a gladiatorial sport.

Our entire side, for decades, has relied on coaches/runners for direction & leadership... no-one stepped up to be the ruthless on-field leader, except maybe for Juddy, by example.

Crippa is, as a leader, nice... Doc doesn't have a hair out of place, impeccable. Terrific blokes, terrific players.

But who is the leader who reads the game, demands change, is uncompromising in his instructions? Who commands respect simply by his actions/voice/presence? This is a serious question. Hint... it aint Simmo, he was raised on failure but is a great of our club through times of deep failure.

So, who is, or who should be, or who should be recruited, to be a bona fide on-field leader - presence & brains ahead of example, please.

Trent cotchin instantly comes to mind.

Again, in my mind, you don't need to be the teams gun player, think Nick Maxwell. Nowhere near the best player, but was ruthless from what I am told.

Maxwell was appointed for political reasons, the rat pack and wannabe rat packers vs the rest led by Dawes, Jolly, Ball etc..
Maxwell was the neutral both groups would work under... source Collingwood recruiting staff member.
Harley was similar at Geelong...

I remember the days we used to get huge run-ons of goals on a near weekly basis in the premiership 3rd qtrs of the 80s.

Now it happens to us on a weekly basis at a random points of a game. If we can get on top of that from here, and it's not that easy, we actually won't lose many games for the rest of the year. Generally that has cost us most of our losses this year. We got on top of the slow starts, we just have other slow patches now.

Trent cotchin instantly comes to mind.

Cotchin is a leopard rather than a Tiger who has tried changing his spots, initially was a timid type who didnt lead well and was accused of skirting the hard stuff, being selfish and indirect with his play and not man enough to lead a pack of Tigers.
Now some would equate those comments with a ex captain of Carlton sill playing...
Cotchin to his credit has altered his game, more inside example setting, trying to seize big moments in games and has also developed as a sniper in his efforts to prove his toughness. Bit artificial and forced for me but he has the runs on the board and the taggers looking sideways for a cheap shot. I know leadership isnt all about being physical on the field but its usually a good start
to win players respect, players will follow a captain who puts himself in danger and sacrifices for the club and Cotchin has been able to do that better in the later stages of his captaincy .

^^

IF he wasnt a premiership captain, he wouldnt have that reputation.  He would be the reason they never won one.  In reality, he has delegated those tasks to his mates, whilst he is a relative clean skin.  Its the Caddy, Riewoldt, Dusty, Edwards, Vlastuin, Astbury types that do this stuff.  Cotchin isnt in that category he just goes when its his turn.

Murphy tried to do similar, and no one went with him.

Anyway, Cotchin is a two time premiership captain who is a nice guy but is no tough guy. 

^^

IF he wasnt a premiership captain, he wouldnt have that reputation.  He would be the reason they never won one.  In reality, he has delegated those tasks to his mates, whilst he is a relative clean skin.  Its the Caddy, Riewoldt, Dusty, Edwards, Vlastuin, Astbury types that do this stuff.  Cotchin isnt in that category he just goes when its his turn.

Murphy tried to do similar, and no one went with him.

Anyway, Cotchin is a two time premiership captain who is a nice guy but is no tough guy. 

Agree with all of that apart from the fact Cotchin has developed as a sniper who isnt adverse to the cheap shot punch or knee....
He isnt tough though as you say and wears a Tigers mask on the field and his leadership is more organizational than by example most times.

Agree with all of that apart from the fact Cotchin has developed as a sniper who isnt adverse to the cheap shot punch or knee....
He isnt tough though as you say and wears a Tigers mask on the field and his leadership is more organizational than by example most times.

In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?

In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?

I'd have kept Kennedy and gave the Eagles pick 1 and 3 like they wanted initially. Hindsight is wonderful unfortunately.

I'd have kept Kennedy and gave the Eagles pick 1 and 3 like they wanted initially. Hindsight is wonderful unfortunately.

Nice, but not what I asked. ;D

In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?

I'll have a go... I suspect most folks would say Cotchin. Good player who has an uncanny knack of fronting up for most games... Tractor, not so much. In a way I wish we'd lost the 'Kreuzer Cup' against the Dees then we'd have had to take Cotchin.

I'll have a go... I suspect most folks would say Cotchin. Good player who has an uncanny knack of fronting up for most games... Tractor, not so much. In a way I wish we'd lost the 'Kreuzer Cup' against the Dees then we'd have had to take Cotchin.

I suppose the consequential downside of that is we would have had Cotchin roving to Warnock, Hampson, Cloke, Ackland or O'hAilpin, assuming Jacobs still wanted home! :o

It isn't the case a change only comes with positives!

In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?

Rule of thumb in the modern game is go the class midfielder.......get your ruckman from another club when they have done all the donkey work training them. Class mids are an essential, B-C grade rucks can get it done eg Lycett/Vardy, Nankervis/Soldo.
Kreuzer was sold as a ruckman who can also play KP...think most of us know now that trying to cheat with ruckman in KP's doesnt work, we doubled up giving Hampson a crack too...
I understand the clubs motivation to cover a few bases with MK so I am not critical, he has been a good player but is eating Cotchins dust in terms of achievements with the latter having two premierships and a brownlow plus being captain.
Carlton have a love affair with champion rucks in successful era's..Nick, Fitzy, Harry Madden, when rebuilding you go back to those successful years and reflect how you build a team with core players again, you see how MK would appeal as another potential star ruck to build around and create a new era.

I remember us at that time obsessing about getting a decent ruck as we were struggling in that dept. No way were we not going to get MK.

I remember us at that time obsessing about getting a decent ruck as we were struggling in that dept. No way were we not going to get MK.

Maybe there is such a thing as karma and because we cheated to get the Tractor, we've been punished with an unreliable champ.  ;)

Maybe there is such a thing as karma and because we cheated to get the Tractor, we've been punished with an unreliable champ.  ;)

Swans won a GF in 2005 after Barry Hall was allowed to play after belting Matt Maguire in the prelim because the AFL wanted their TV team to win the GF. The Karma bus must have been parked down at Bondi having a holiday..Its dog eat dog in the AFL and all clubs cheat at some point, so dont over think it..🤔😎....Windy Hill would be a Karma bus depot...

I saw enough early on to think that Kreuzer would have been a damn good player and team mate,  but the injuries cruelled him,  and in this age of hyper athletic giant rucks he's a smidge undersized and lacks that athletic zip.... But he's been a bloody good clubman for a long time in a dark era.   Apparently we really wanted NicNat,  but he was in the next draft.   In the Kruezer era we were perennially undersized,  so can see why we went for big blokes.

The one that upset me the most was Gibbs.   Didn't develop his game,  didn't evolve into the modern era midfielder we desperately needed and refused to add that defensive element - but he wasn't the lone ranger in that regard.

and in this age of hyper athletic giant rucks he's a smidge undersized and lacks that athletic zip.... 

 OK, I undertsand the injury sentiment.

In regard to size and athletic ability, I think the shortfalls are grossly overstated. In reality his under size is just 1"(2.5cm) or and 1-1/2"(4.0cm) to these hyper athletic giants, and he is probably 5 to 10kg lighter than the heaviest opponents. But Kreuzer is still around 105 to 110kg and it isn't a large proportion of fat like some of them.

On the aerobic front he leaves opponents gasping for air behind him while they watch him spread away from the stoppage as part of the midfield chain.

Otherwise, yes he has been crippled by injury and never really reached his peak, but his average is still so far ahead of our other options they are not even on the same park!

I saw enough early on to think that Kreuzer would have been a damn good player and team mate,  but the injuries cruelled him,  and in this age of hyper athletic giant rucks he's a smidge undersized and lacks that athletic zip.... But he's been a bloody good clubman for a long time in a dark era.   Apparently we really wanted NicNat,  but he was in the next draft.   In the Kruezer era we were perennially undersized,  so can see why we went for big blokes.

The one that upset me the most was Gibbs.   Didn't develop his game,  didn't evolve into the modern era midfielder we desperately needed and refused to add that defensive element - but he wasn't the lone ranger in that regard.

I always thought the biggest mistake that was made with Gibbs was attempting to force him to be a midfielder. He played some of his best footy as a defender, when he had a set task. The best midfielders tend to have a creative streak, with a mongrel determination.

Gibbs was a mid and half forward for Glenelg, if anything we didn't play him forward enough.
Kreuzer, Gibbs and Murphy were all too much of the same ilk in terms if being nice guys.
They were the start of Von Trapp era where we went for nice boys but lacked the grunt you need for a onball setup and they also provided little leadership or cover for young players.

I always thought the biggest mistake that was made with Gibbs was attempting to force him to be a midfielder. He played some of his best footy as a defender, when he had a set task. The best midfielders tend to have a creative streak, with a mongrel determination.

@Baggers‍ - I tend to agree, Gibbs played his best football off the HBF flank when he could watch the football coming to him and read the flight, he'd dispose of opponents early and then use the footy very very well on the rebound. Something many of our fans do not give him credit for, much like they failed to credit Houlihan for his ball use.

I also agree with @ElwoodBlues1‍ the Crows made a huge mistake trying to play him in the midfield and on the wing, change of direction, twisting and turning is not his go. They would have been better to play him as a HFF, give him 3 or 4 chances a game and he'll kick 2 or 3 goals from a decent range.

@Baggers‍ - I tend to agree, Gibbs played his best football off the HBF flank when he could watch the football coming to him and read the flight, he'd dispose of opponents early and then use the footy very very well on the rebound.

It's wonderful how history gets re-written. Are you a speech writer for the Trump administration as well?

How quickly people forget how many turn over Gibbs was involved in during his tenure at Carlton. I find it alarming that based on your position in the draft, exceptions are made and glaring faults glossed over to emphasise "what a great pick" he was. Let's get it straight, the guy was a poor choice at Number 1 as was Murphy.

These guys aren't number one pick material and never were and I get annoyed that people make allowances for them. They were\are being paid handsomely to deliver mediocre results at best. Don't make excuses for them...

How quickly people forget how many turn over Gibbs was involved in during his tenure at Carlton. I find it alarming that based on your position in the draft, exceptions are made and glaring faults glossed over to emphasise "what a great pick" he was. Let's get it straight, the guy was a poor choice at Number 1 as was Murphy.

Sorry @Spanner‍ - I can't take you seriously on sMurph or Gibbs issues.

In a loss these guys could get Club BoG as well as Brownlow votes and you'd still blame them!

There is no history being rewritten, and no rage based blindness either!

Nice, but not what I asked. ;D

Think of it like poker. I raised you one...haha.

How quickly people forget how many turn over Gibbs was involved in during his tenure at Carlton. I find it alarming that based on your position in the draft, exceptions are made and glaring faults glossed over to emphasise "what a great pick" he was. Let's get it straight, the guy was a poor choice at Number 1 as was Murphy.

These guys aren't number one pick material and never were and I get annoyed that people make allowances for them. They were\are being paid handsomely to deliver mediocre results at best. Don't make excuses for them...

Aside from the part where Murphy was the best player in the competition, for a couple of years, before his shoulders went (AFL MVP, continual top 3 Brownlow voting), and also the part where Selwood-aside (and maybe Boak), Gibbs is clearly the best player from his draft (unless we should have taken Gubmleton or Hansen or Thorp).  But, I suppose, dont let facts get in the way of an argument

Aside from the part where Murphy was the best player in the competition, for a couple of years, before his shoulders went (AFL MVP, continual top 3 Brownlow voting), and also the part where Selwood-aside (and maybe Boak), Gibbs is clearly the best player from his draft (unless we should have taken Gubmleton or Hansen or Thorp).  But, I suppose, dont let facts get in the way of an argument

Agree.

Our club was so consistent with getting top draft picks and expecting them to hit the ground running and be instant Brownlow favourites that it was fckn embarrassing - this was when the saviour mentality was alive and well.... holy crap we were pushing Murphy and Gibbs as teenagers in the leadership group!

Both were extremely good footballers cruelled by an immature club with a poor culture and dreadful leadership. I stand by what I commented earlier, Gibbs could have been an elite HB and Murphy an elite small forward/outside mid... both were pushed into areas not suited to their talents or their bodies. Ever looked at Murph... he's a runt, not at all suited to being an inside mid.

Murphy best in the comp LMAO.

Both were extremely good footballers cruelled by an immature club with a poor culture and dreadful leadership. I stand by what I commented earlier,

Joel Selwoods first game and his team-mates
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2007/070920070401.html

Bryce Gibbs'  first game and his team-mates
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2007/031420070401.html

The weird thing about that is we won and Geelong lost.
But by the end of the year they were top and we were second last.
Players around you in your developing years make a huge difference in terms of support.
Murphy and Gibbs were behind the eight ball from the moment they started.

Murphy best in the comp LMAO.

Right up there, until he did his shoulder

2011
Murphy became one of the league's elite midfielders in 2011. He was named in the All-Australian team for the first time in his career, on the half-forward flank, and won his first John Nicholls Medal for best and fairest player at Carlton.
He was also named as the AFL Coaches' Association Champion Player of the Year, and
The Age' Player of the Year.

2012
Murphy started the year as strong as he finished 2011, becoming the favourite for the Brownlow Medal before a heavy collision with Patrick Dangerfield in round 8 where he sustained a shoulder injury.He returned in round 16, and from round 17 to 21 was named as the acting captain in the absence of Chris Judd.

●  Ranked 4th in Total Kicks in 2011   
 ●  Ranked 5th in Total Disposals in 2011
  ●  Ranked 4th in Total Supercoach Score in 2011    
●  Ranked 3rd in Total AFL Fantasy Score in 2011
  ●  Ranked 7th in Total Contested Possessions in 2011    
●  Ranked 7th in Total Uncontested Possessions in 2011
  ●  Ranked 3rd in Total Effective Disposals in 2011    
●  Ranked 8th in Kicks Per Game in 2011
  ●  Ranked 7th in Disposals Per Game in 2011    
●  Ranked 4th in Supercoach Score Per Game in 2011
  ●  Ranked 6th in AFL Fantasy Score Per Game in 2011    
●  Ranked 9th in Uncontested Possessions Per Game in 2011
  ●  Ranked 3rd in Effective Disposals Per Game in 2011

2011 is almost 10 years ago.

2011 is almost 10 years ago.

100% agree - by no means is he now.  Just a comment that the pick wasnt the disaster it was made out to be.  Yes, Pendles has had a better career, but at one stage, Murph was ahead

Honey's playing.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/795168?fbclid=IwAR2bHZJfuJoQvpFlrdxczZ2V9bHOaLjkTvyr0jR20VMLDiEqtR1Ftb9AnNc

100% agree - by no means is he now.  Just a comment that the pick wasnt the disaster it was made out to be.  Yes, Pendles has had a better career, but at one stage, Murph was ahead

Better career is an understatement....Pendlebury is going to be seen as a great of Collingwood, probably in their top 5 and Murphy a good player but not at Pendleburys level IMo. Its the same with Gibbs and Selwood, you look at our No 1's of that era including Kreuzer and you could say they were good footballers but not legendary like their contemporaries..

Honey's playing.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/795168?fbclid=IwAR2bHZJfuJoQvpFlrdxczZ2V9bHOaLjkTvyr0jR20VMLDiEqtR1Ftb9AnNc

Exciting to have a player like Honey in the team, real impact when on, looks a footballer unlike the whippets who we usually find.

Exciting to have a player like Honey in the team, real impact when on, looks a footballer unlike the whippets who we usually find.

You know you've put the ... on the block EB ;D  ;D

You know you've put the ... on the block EB ;D  ;D

Watched him at U18 level and as I have said before he doesnt give 100mins but when he is on he is like Gary Rohan and is game changing with the stuff he can do....has some swagger like some old time Blues players, reckon the fans will love him...

Watched him at U18 level and as I have said before he doesnt give 100mins but when he is on he is like Gary Rohan and is game changing with the stuff he can do....has some swagger like some old time Blues players, reckon the fans will love him...

Looking fwd to watching him now.

Looking fwd to watching him now.

Me as well. Must be something there to be a rookie pick and now pushing ahead of others. Fingers crossed that we have found a gem.

Aside from the part where Murphy was the best player in the competition

As I said, history being re-written. He may have had a few stand out games, but to be honest I can never remember him or Gibbs being anything but bog average at best. Always doing something so sub par on the field that it detracted so much from anything positive that they did.

This is the problem with all you guys who laud these bog average footballers as stars. You refuse to acknowledge the mass amount shyte they delivered and choose to remember only the few highlights. As I said, blue coloured glasses...  ::)

Murphy's going to go down in history as our worst long serving captain, but that says more about our other captains and our history than it does Murphy.

Like it or lump it, he's still an important player for us, and he'd be top 5 in our b and f at the minute.

Yes, we do have a way to go. 

As I said, history being re-written. He may have had a few stand out games, but to be honest I can never remember him or Gibbs being anything but bog average at best. Always doing something so sub par on the field that it detracted so much from anything positive that they did.

This is the problem with all you guys who laud these bog average footballers as stars. You refuse to acknowledge the mass amount shyte they delivered and choose to remember only the few highlights. As I said, blue coloured glasses...  ::)

Yep, we’ll ignore the AFL MVP and The Age player of the year, and run with your memory

Yep, we’ll ignore the AFL MVP and The Age player of the year, and run with your memory

It was actually ALFCA (Coaches Association) Champion Player of the Year 2011 but hey, lets not listen to what Coaches think, what would they know.

Yep, we’ll ignore the AFL MVP and The Age player of the year, and run with your memory

Chris Judd (remember him?) was the AFL MVP in 2011.

Judd was an overwhelming winner, with his 1347 votes almost triple the tally of runner-up, Collingwood's Scott Pendlebury (456), with Gold Coast captain Gary Ablett (389) third.

Judd joined Ablett, Greg Williams, Wayne Carey and Michael Voss as players to have won the award more than once.

Judd was also voted the AFL's best captain for 2011, adding to a list of honours which include five club best and fairests, two with the Eagles and three with the Blues, as well as the 2005 Norm Smith Medal and captaining West Coast to the 2006 premiership.

It was actually ALFCA (Coaches Association) Champion Player of the Year 2011 but hey, lets not listen to what Coaches think, what would they know.

So the coaches rated Murphy a better player than Judd in 2011, despite Judd winning every award imaginable in that year and/or the year before.

Shhh....don't tell spanner.

Then after being "as reported" a surprise winner on many 2011 awards, Judd was hung, drawn and quartered by the media over Chicken Wing gate and he hardly got a vote in anything after that!

Yet apparently the media has no influence over the umpires, officials or administration of the game! ;)

btw., The opposition crowds booed the hell out of Judd after that, ................ bunch of racists???

PS: Don't mention the war!

So the coaches rated Murphy a better player than Judd in 2011, despite Judd winning every award imaginable in that year and/or the year before.

Shhh....don't tell spanner.

A North Melbourne player was given votes in the coach's award against us and was dropped for the following week.

A North Melbourne player was given votes in the coach's award against us and was dropped for the following week.

Jared Polec, "Dropped" can be a euphemism for all sorts of situations.

I've heard that Polec was asked to go back to the reserves and work on some very specific sets of skills, as in pestering and nagging, because they tried to use him to tag Cripps and he failed as he is a play fair type player, hardly a shock and awe result! Yet Polec was probably clearly and unequivocally Norps BoG after quarter time, even the media rated him as so! He was basically dropped for refusing to be a c@#t! Don't be surprised if he wants out of Norp!

In the meantime the media lauded Pittard who basically helped lose Norp the game, and Jed Anderson who kicked, kidney punched and ankle tapped his way through the subsequent 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter tagging of Cripps!

Jared Polec, "Dropped" can be a euphemism for all sorts of situations.

I've heard that Polec was asked to go back to the reserves and work on some very specific sets of skills, as in pestering and nagging, because they tried to use him to tag Cripps and he failed as he is a play fair type player, hardly a shock and awe result! Yet Polec was probably clearly and unequivocally Norps BoG after quarter time, even the media rated him as so! He was basically dropped for refusing to be a c@#t! Don't be surprised if he wants out of Norp!

In the meantime the media lauded Pittard who basically helped lose Norp the game, and Jed Anderson who kicked, kidney punched and ankle tapped his way through the subsequent 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter tagging of Cripps!

Polec isnt a tagger and not a physical player, it was a dumb move from Shaw considering Ratten showed how you curtail Cripps and the type of player you need. The old theory was you play an offensive player on Cripps to run off him as Cripps doesnt mind a man but that theory has been put to bed with all the successful close checking on Cripps of recent times
Polec wont be going anywhere with the money he is on...Nth are the kings of over paying average footballers..

A North Melbourne player was given votes in the coach's award against us and was dropped for the following week.

...and?

Many a reason why he could've been dropped, including no matchup, niggles, off-field issues.
Only 1 coach gave him votes, so maybe we thought he was tough to play against, and NM were not happy with how he performed the role they wanted him too.
Regardless, he's not likely to win the award now is he?

So the coaches rated Murphy a better player than Judd in 2011, despite Judd winning every award imaginable in that year and/or the year before.

Shhh....don't tell spanner.

Yeah, it wasn't the fact the Judd took all the heat for Murphy and Gibbs and as soon as Judd left it exposed Murphy for what he really is... Hmmm... Naaaah, couldn't be, could it?...

Yeah, it wasn't the fact the Judd took all the heat for Murphy and Gibbs and as soon as Judd left it exposed Murphy for what he really is... Hmmm... Naaaah, couldn't be, could it?...

That is IMO 100% true spanner.  Well said. 

Chris Judd (remember him?) was the AFL MVP in 2011.

Yes Players Association MVP in 2011, Murphy won th coaches award the same year.

Yeah, it wasn't the fact the Judd took all the heat for Murphy and Gibbs and as soon as Judd left it exposed Murphy for what he really is... Hmmm... Naaaah, couldn't be, could it?...

Ahh, you mean when Judd retired that Murphy was considered the best option for captaincy?
Yeah you're right. EXPOSED.

Ahh, you mean when Judd retired that Murphy was considered the best option for captaincy?
Yeah you're right. EXPOSED.

And how'd that work out?  ;D Killer appointment in your books? Yeah, didn't think so...

Polec isnt a tagger and not a physical player, it was a dumb move from Shaw considering Ratten showed how you curtail Cripps and the type of player you need. The old theory was you play an offensive player on Cripps to run off him as Cripps doesnt mind a man but that theory has been put to bed with all the successful close checking on Cripps of recent times
Polec wont be going anywhere with the money he is on...Nth are the kings of over paying average footballers..

 Would you show interest in Polec if Norp paid part of his wage?

Jared Polec, "Dropped" can be a euphemism for all sorts of situations.

I've heard that Polec was asked to go back to the reserves and work on some very specific sets of skills, as in pestering and nagging, because they tried to use him to tag Cripps and he failed as he is a play fair type player, hardly a shock and awe result! Yet Polec was probably clearly and unequivocally Norps BoG after quarter time, even the media rated him as so! He was basically dropped for refusing to be a c@#t! Don't be surprised if he wants out of Norp!

In the meantime the media lauded Pittard who basically helped lose Norp the game, and Jed Anderson who kicked, kidney punched and ankle tapped his way through the subsequent 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter tagging of Cripps!

So would you take who hundreds of players rate the best in the comp (They can't vote for their own) or who coaches like Hinkley and Chris Scott rate the best?

And how'd that work out?  ;D Killer appointment in your books? Yeah, didn't think so...

How many people were putting their hand up behind him?
I suppose thats his fault too?

How many people were putting their hand up behind him?
I suppose thats his fault too?

By your way if thinking, Donald Trump is an awesome president given he was elected by the American people.

Just because someone holds a position, it does not make them the best person for the job irrespective of how they got there. You can only judge them by the body of their work and given Murphy's contribution all I can do is judge him on that and in my mind it's been severely lacking.

Like Pagan before him, he has been weighed, he has been measured and he had been found grossly wanting... Beit as captain or player. Nothing you have said can mask over that other than the way you gloss over and justify his major deficiencies.

So would you take who hundreds of players rate the best in the comp (They can't vote for their own) or who coaches like Hinkley and Chris Scott rate the best?

I'd take who we need, not driven by a popularity contest.

Would you show interest in Polec if Norp paid part of his wage?

Be a No to Polec even with part wage paid we recruited Obrien, Philp, Ramsay to play that running link player role, his type of player need a very dominant team to use his front running skills. He is probably a poor mans lssac Smith but Smith can win his own ball better and hold up in the big moments, Polec misses a lot of clutch goals and targets when the heat is on.
You team him up with fellow mature imports Aaron Hall and Pittard and its a clangar fest...Nths recruiters must be under real pressure given what they have brought into the club of recent times.

Honey this week,  Cottrell last week,  Newnes in round one.   Walsh shifted to that running wing role.... I'd be getting concerbed if I was O'Brien.  Round one draft pick supplanted by first and second year rookies.

Honey this week,  Cottrell last week,  Newnes in round one.   Walsh shifted to that running wing role.... I'd be getting concerbed if I was O'Brien.  Round one draft pick supplanted by first and second year rookies.

Not good and his form in the scratch matches hasnt been that brilliant, needs a big 2021, has to be more competitive and harder at the ball as the modern game exposes those who dont contest well enough. Philp , Cottrell all have shown they will put their head over the ball and thats why they are getting games.
Honey has a better build than all of them and no surprise he is getting his chance and is another who will contest properly.

Not good and his form in the scratch matches hasnt been that brilliant, needs a big 2021, has to be more competitive and harder at the ball as the modern game exposes those who dont contest well enough. Philp , Cottrell all have shown they will put their head over the ball and thats why they are getting games.
Honey has a better build than all of them and no surprise he is getting his chance and is another who will contest properly.

So you're saying that Murphy type efforts are starting to be scrutanised and phased out of the team? Wow! What a concept. Who would've thought that attacking the contest should be a highly regarded trait?

Gee, this must be a new concept that Carlton are experimenting with. I wonder what Marc thinks about it... Hmmm, obviously there are get out of gaol cards for Marc though because he's obviously exempt from that part of the game.

He's to get out of the way when there's any danger of actual contact, but for everyone else at the club, there's standards to uphold...  :-\

Be a No to Polec even with part wage paid we recruited Obrien, Philp, Ramsay to play that running link player role, his type of player need a very dominant team to use his front running skills. 

Ins't Polec is a bit bigger and heavier than those smaller types?

This could be the only Post Game thread in history that goes passed the next game.

So you're saying that Murphy type efforts are starting to be scrutanised and phased out of the team? Wow! What a concept. Who would've thought that attacking the contest should be a highly regarded trait?

Gee, this must be a new concept that Carlton are experimenting with. I wonder what Marc thinks about it... Hmmm, obviously there are get out of gaol cards for Marc though because he's obviously exempt from that part of the game.

He's to get out of the way when there's any danger of actual contact, but for everyone else at the club, there's standards to uphold...  :-\

You are preaching to the converted, my main gripe is our lack of harder bodies and Von Trapp kids recruiting style where we ignore the contested harder types and go overboard with the nice kids who have pretty skills.
Murphy was never going to be a lead by example leader and was a poor choice but I get why the club went down that path....
Judd wallpapered a lot of cracks, we had to turn him into a inside mid to cover for the others and we broke him...Teague knows the same thing will happen with Cripps and IMO is looking at restructuring the team with more contest happy players.
Murphy, Simpson and Kreuzer need to retire ....

Ins't Polec is a bit bigger and heavier than those smaller types?

Yep he is taller @189cm but very outside and not to keen on the contested stuff...Port were happy to let him go for the big dollars and rebuild with Duursma, Butters etc...been a winning move.

I'd take who we need, not driven by a popularity contest.

Was Marc Murphy ever the number 1 player in the comp?

Was Marc Murphy ever the number 1 player in the comp?

He wasn't even close to the best player at our club let alone the competition.

He wasn't even close to the best player at our club let alone the competition.

When you exaggerate to the extent you do, your initial contention loses credibility.

You might have people agree with you if you didn't use so many Trump-isms.

He is 'the worst' is clearly BS.
2 B+F wins can quite easily prove you wrong. Ditto Gibbs.

....and right on queue....They show Murphy winning the game for us last time we played Freo.

And right on queue Murphy fluffs it out of the centre. The guy is a joke. I'm not sure what you're defending...

And right on queue Murphy fluffs it out of the centre. The guy is a joke. I'm not sure what you're defending...

Oh no, a player mucked up in the wet. Sack him! Sack him NOW.

Use the in game thread guys