Well, the first half wasn't bad. Pity about the 3rd quarter.
We had 2 4 quarter players: Gibbs and Murphy who played their guts out. We had a few more who tried - Ed Curnow, for example. And we had a lot of guys who had very quiet nights.
Curnow is a real trier. But his disposal is shocking.
If he can't improve that aspect of his game by next year, he won't last in that team.
Triers are good, but if they lack the basic skills, they won't win you a flag. let alone get you in the top 8.
41 possessions for Kennedy and we tried to stop him. McVeigh loves playing against us too: 29 possession when he did nothing on the first half at all.
Anyway, I'm off to have some Chamomile tea.
Good night, gents, and ladies if there are any out there.
17 rounds into the season. You have the team currently 1st playing the team currently 14th. The end result further illuminates the previous 16 rounds.
The team is playing well below its potential. I know this isn't a popular view.
Murphy is the only player who can walk off with his head up, in the face of what the rest dished up it was a remarkable game by him.
Gibbs was OK, Curnow battled away but he's not much chop with the ball in his hands, Tuohy didn't drop his head.
The rest of them were pathetic, just rolled over when it got tough, there's half a dozen in that team who will never be good enough.
I really question the use of Graham as sub again. We know what Ellard brings to the team and that's the reason he hasn't been getting a game. Why not make Ellard the sub and give Graham a proper crack at it. If we're trying to 'regenerate' then it's moves like this that make me think our coach has lost the plot.
@Paul P
I agree 100% surprise surprise!
Enjoy your tea, bignic. I'm still letting off steam. I couldn't be more frustrated if I tried.
And Paul, you are 100 % correct. The game showed exactly why we are so far below Sydney on the ladder.
I simply cannot find anything that we got out of the game after half time.
Interesting to see Laidler chatting to Judd after the siren:
Judd: "You made the right decision!"
Laidler: "How do you put up with his rubbish?"
Judd: "It's not easy but he's not the club, just a passing aberration."
Laidler: "I hope you're right. You're an icon of the game and your coach should give you the respect you deserve."
Judd: "I don't know about that but we can always hope that he realises that the game has passed him by and takes his own words to heart; you're remembered by how you performed in your last season."
We just have too many ordinary players with average to poor skills when under the pressure applied by top teams. Until these guys are replaced we will not get any better. IMO most of our problems are due to the very shallow depth of talent in the midfield. Aside from Gibbs, Murph, and to a lesser degree Juddy, we were smashed in that area by a clinical and ruthless Swans midfield, especially in the 3Q.
Our defence was under constant pressure and our forwards were starved out for long periods.
Big clean out next year I think.
Interesting Laids still seemed very popular with the group. Could that be the reason he was treated so shabbily, Mick felt threatened by his popularity? Not suggesting I know this for one moment but it's certainly a situation that remains open to interpretation.
Well, the game was extremely good at highlighting our deficiencies:
[1] Ruck:
Even though Warnock was being beaten consistently, we didn't have any other option. For all the flack Warnock gets, he is not that bad. But he does have his limitations, and tonight we saw them. He does not handle big, strong blokes that well.
We need to recruit at least 1 new ruckman, as Kreuzer may never be the one we hoped he'd be. I am not seeing that many good rucks available this draft.
[2] Midfield:
We actually have a decent reputation ay getting contested ball, but Kennedy thrashed us in that regard tonight. We really need to work on our midfield, as we didn't have many to throw into it to make a difference. Gibbs and Murphy did well while Curnow did his job effectively. That was it.
[3] Forward line:
When our mids are being beaten, we really don't have a winning option up forward. We really need to work on that. Sydney had guys who took marks even when w were thrashing Goodes and Franklin. We didn't have the same power. Levi has great hands, but he doesn't get the ball enough and doesn't do enough with it.
We just have too many ordinary players with average to poor skills when under the pressure applied by top teams. Until these guys are replaced we will not get any better. IMO most of our problems are due to the very shallow depth of talent in the midfield. Aside from Gibbs, Murph, and to a lesser degree Juddy, we were smashed in that area by a clinical and ruthless Swans midfield, especially in the 3Q.
Our blokes never seem to get excited, they're rarely up for it and never look like they're enjoying themselves. They were up for it in the first half though and they countered Buddy very well. What happened?
Just watching fat head Eddie and sh1t talking king on fox.
They were commenting on yarran laughing and joking with buddy after he kicked his fifth goal.
They were saying if you lip read buddy he was giving it to our defenders and they reckon the word 'embarrassing' was used.
But instead of our defenders reacting by verbally abusinb him or god forbid maybr start a fight - instead one of them joins in his one man party by joking and laughing with the pr1ck in full camera view. Oh by the way we were over 10goals down at that stage.
Can't believe what a rabble we have become.
I'll put as much effort into this post as the players put into the second half.
Just a bunch of jks losp m dm. Mmm just wqanna makejk c ,. .dlk.76&&&&
We just have too many ordinary players with average to poor skills when under the pressure applied by top teams. Until these guys are replaced we will not get any better. IMO most of our problems are due to the very shallow depth of talent in the midfield. Aside from Gibbs, Murph, and to a lesser degree Juddy, we were smashed in that area by a clinical and ruthless Swans midfield, especially in the 3Q.
Our blokes never seem to get excited, they're rarely up for it and never look like they're enjoying themselves. They were up for it in the first half though and they countered Buddy very well. What happened?
We were ground down, chewed up and finally spat out by a far more talented and professional outfit
Our blokes never seem to get excited, they're rarely up for it and never look like they're enjoying themselves. They were up for it in the first half though and they countered Buddy very well. What happened?
They came out after half time mentally unprepared and unprimed, it's 100% down to the coach.
I'll spew if Malthouse doesn't take responsibility for it.
We just have too many ordinary players with average to poor skills when under the pressure applied by top teams. Until these guys are replaced we will not get any better. IMO most of our problems are due to the very shallow depth of talent in the midfield. Aside from Gibbs, Murph, and to a lesser degree Juddy, we were smashed in that area by a clinical and ruthless Swans midfield, especially in the 3Q.
Our blokes never seem to get excited, they're rarely up for it and never look like they're enjoying themselves. They were up for it in the first half though and they countered Buddy very well. What happened?
Half time happened and MM spoke to them ;)
He has had a hand in recruiting well for us but he is not the coach for us.
Agree it was interesting to see Laidler at the end and who he chatted to.
If Judd decides to go elsewhere end of year, which now would not surprise me given MMs obvious statement about wanting him to go, what would you MM fans feel about that?
MM came in with a great plan. Flooding. It worked the first half..
What happened after??
MM came in with a great plan. Flooding. It worked the first half..
What happened after??
I've seen skid marks that look like a more complete game plan than MM offered up tonight!
I reckon that our second tier players are performing nowhere near as well as those of the Swans, Hawks, Dockers, Cats, Port and Pies.
However, it's hard to perform at your best when the coach ties one hand behind your back. It's time to stop playing blokes out of position and to admit that the gameplan just doesn't cut it.
Workrate.
Massive difference between us and them. They never give up. We do !
I cant hang Jamo and Rowe out to dry on todays performance. With the lack of pressure coming from our mids, no defence could have done much better.
I too dont think Rowe is an answer....too panicky when in possession. But defensively he contested all night and I give him credit for that
Yarran was pi55 poor tonight. Looked like he couldnt give a stuff. Didnt break into a sweat all night.
Agree Murph and Gibbs tried all night but something stands out like a beacon to me with these two. Compared to say Sydneys mids.......they barely break a tackle or manage to burst through a player. They'd prefer to duck and weave for a free kick than burst through and push forward like the Sydney boys. It's a massive chink in our armour.
Caz sooked it up big time after half time. Dont rely on free kicks...just be pleasantly surprised if you get one. Attack the ball every fkn time and you might be a player.
Walker....not his worst effort but if I was an opposition coach, I'd actually like Him to have the ball cos you know your an even chance to get it back. He doesnt hurt the opposition with the amount of ball he gets his hands on.
Judd looked like a guy who read the press this week. tried but lacked any 2nd efforts and looked sore.
Curnow busts his boiler but just doesnt have the skills at this level.
McLean, Ellard......I think their days are numbered.
Nice to see Blaine get his goal but not good enough to play 4 qrt's and have what......2 possessions? Played a blinder last week but didnt notice him at all tonite.
Touhy had a better 2nd half. That should be his minimum output each and every game.
We are just poo. A team bereft of any confidence. Skill level akin to local football standard and not enough heart to get to more contests. We are in dire straits atm.
Stoppages have 8 or 9 players from each team around the ball, MM has 6 or 7 of our players tagging.
That is an losing scenario at any level!
J... yarran laughing and joking with buddy after he kicked his fifth goal.
They were saying if you lip read buddy he was giving it to our defenders and they reckon the word 'embarrassing' was used.
But instead of our defenders reacting by verbally abusinb him or god forbid maybr start a fight - instead one of them joins in his one man party by joking and laughing with the pr1ck in full camera view. Oh by the way we were over 10goals down at that stage.
Can't believe what a rabble we have become.
No mongrel whatsoever. Why was White left to take on 2 defenders in a game of push and shove in the goalsquare? No one came to assist. Shameful.
Incredible how the umpires can spot the slightest jumper pull on Goodes when, the very next foray into our forward line, Casboult is scragged and denied a fair run at the marking contest.
Obviously we're not in the same league but I reckon our shoulders slumped after Goodes' goal (which also should never happen - shameful again).
I really question the use of Graham as sub again. We know what Ellard brings to the team and that's the reason he hasn't been getting a game. Why not make Ellard the sub and give Graham a proper crack at it. If we're trying to 'regenerate' then it's moves like this that make me think our coach has lost the plot.
@Paul P
I agree 100% surprise surprise!
Ive seen abit of Graham in the twos and ones. I personally think he is useless and was another wasted pick.
@bigblue
A good summary of our predicament BB, and you are right, we are very much in deep poo ATM.
........................
Incredible how the umpires can spot the slightest jumper pull on Goodes when, the very next foray into our forward line, Casboult is scragged and denied a fair run at the marking contest.
But by far the worst decision this year was I think the 3rd quarter tackle on Johnson by McVeigh, a straight out push in the back not even any attempt to do anything else. Straight in front of two umpires, and they called play on!
I really question the use of Graham as sub again. We know what Ellard brings to the team and that's the reason he hasn't been getting a game. Why not make Ellard the sub and give Graham a proper crack at it. If we're trying to 'regenerate' then it's moves like this that make me think our coach has lost the plot.
@Paul P
I agree 100% surprise surprise!
Ive seen abit of Graham in the twos and ones. I personally think he is useless and was another wasted pick.
Agree re Graham. Won't make it IMO.
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
So Daisy doesn't mind getting the pay cheque and not getting dropped because u and the coach back him for 'better things to come... One day' give me a screwing break!
They seem disinterested because the coach is not a good for for the talented players in this group.
So Daisy doesn't mind getting the pay cheque and not getting dropped because u and the coach back him for 'better things to come... One day' give me a screwing break!
They seem disinterested because the coach is not a good for for the talented players in this group.
Why are they all re-signing then?
So Daisy doesn't mind getting the pay cheque and not getting dropped because u and the coach back him for 'better things to come... One day' give me a screwing break!
They seem disinterested because the coach is not a good for for the talented players in this group.
As much as you want to hang Daisy, the MC isn't going to drop 6 or 7 players and he wasn't the worst tonight by a long way!
Surely we can fit Waite and Garlett into that team.
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
MM came in with a great plan. Flooding. It worked the first half..
What happened after??
I've seen skid marks that look like a more complete game plan than MM offered up tonight!
LOL. :))
Mick wants to know why we fall away for a quarter or two?....I'll tell you why....the Swans bigger bodies take over and like most of the better teams are fitter/stronger than our blokes and have more run in their legs. We tire when we have to chase and tackle those big units like Kennedy, McVeigh etc...
Someone said Bell looks fat...agree.....Brock couldnt run out of sight on a dark night and even Chris Judd looked spent.
re: Yarran laughing with Buddy..yep would have drgaeed him and he wouldnt be playing next week...
re: Ellard...not up to it like I have said..
re: Graham...yep like others losing faith in what I am seeing, not quick enough and lacks the grunt needed at AFL level...Johnson looks more intense and wants it more IMO.
re: Daisy...made the effort early I thought but when it got ugly gave it away.....he just isnt fit enough IMO and vs the Swans the unfit get put to the sword.
Rowe and Jamo tried but were swallowed up by the amount of forward entries.......Hnderson and our forwards froze due to the lack of forward entries...
Warnock won tap out but directed them poorly.....nil all draw with Pyke who did nothing either...
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
Fair enough DU, but do you really expect him to make much of a difference? What we need are some players who will bring in not only skills but also the leadership qualities and instincts to inspire others. Jeffy, nor Waite for that matter, have these qualities. In fact we need to look outside the club for them.
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
Fair enough DU, but do you really expect him to make much of a difference? What we need are some players who will bring in not only skills but also the leadership qualities and instincts to inspire others. Jeffy, nor Waite for that matter, have these qualities. In fact we need to look outside the club for them.
Agree...nothing to crumb really...after half time they owned the footy we couldnt get it forward....
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
A year or so ago I thought Bell getting caught with the ball was due to inexperience, I thought he'd wake up as he got more games under his belt. I'm still waiting for his slow reaction times to be a thing of the past, :(
We have a club that should always make the 8, bottom end of it admittedly being the limit. Given we've played 4 of the last 5 finals series that's a fair summary. Our drafting has been too poor, beyond the first round no brainers, to go any higher. Some class at the top end, which has allowed us to play finals, but we drop off, meaning don't past the first week or two. Then if we have a year where we struggle and/or don't work hard, we get what we see this season.
As far as a coach goes, obviously an outstanding career but won't coach this team to their strengths instead coaching to his own game plan theories that simply don't suit our club.
Biggest problem is that we are lazy, have a poor work ethic, poor culture and poor attitude. 4 coaches have had a go at sorting those problems since 2001 and the closest to being successful was Ratts, who at least made us a very competitive team and close to top 4 but even then those traits often popped up. That's the most disappointing. Could understand it if we were truly a 5-11, 14th place list but even we are better than that hence the disappointment with with the work rate and attitude.
This club can put on bursts of scintillating football, showing they are capable. That's often when we are 5 goals behind where we produce a sudden run of goals and hit the lead 15 minutes later. Then we can play absolute lazy, poor crap too, like the 3rd qtr tonight.
We are never safe when 5 goals in front and never out of it when 5 goals behind.
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
Fair enough DU, but do you really expect him to make much of a difference? What we need are some players who will bring in not only skills but also the leadership qualities and instincts to inspire others. Jeffy, nor Waite for that matter, have these qualities. In fact we need to look outside the club for them.
I don't know Cookie, we just looked so sloooooooooow all over the ground tonight
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
A year or so ago I thought Bell getting caught with the ball was due to inexperience, I thought he'd wake up as he got more games under his belt. I'm still waiting for his slow reaction times to be a thing of the past, :(
And people started comparing him to Kouta. I said at the time and I will say it again, he aint one of Kouta's ball bags.
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
A year or so ago I thought Bell getting caught with the ball was due to inexperience, I thought he'd wake up as he got more games under his belt. I'm still waiting for his slow reaction times to be a thing of the past, :(
Bell is mainly a big lad who can throw his weight around and should be used mainly in close quarter combat situations to tackle, barge, block, bump and protect other more skilled players. His own skills are average, he is not creative or endowed with much vision and is relatively slow of mind. What you see now is what we've got IMO. Depth player at best for mine.
our midfield is soft.
moreover, warnock rucks to the opposition. game over in that moment.
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
A year or so ago I thought Bell getting caught with the ball was due to inexperience, I thought he'd wake up as he got more games under his belt. I'm still waiting for his slow reaction times to be a thing of the past, :(
Bell is mainly a big lad who can throw his weight around and should be used mainly in close quarter combat situations to tackle, barge, block, bump and protect other more skilled players. His own skills are average, he is not creative or endowed with much vision and is relatively slow of mind. What you see now is what we've got IMO. Depth player at best for mine.
Sam Lane interviewed Juddy after the game and I thought I saw Bell in the background with his jumper off and he looked like he had a gut......no second efforts from either tonight and he doesnt look fit.
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
A year or so ago I thought Bell getting caught with the ball was due to inexperience, I thought he'd wake up as he got more games under his belt. I'm still waiting for his slow reaction times to be a thing of the past, :(
And people started comparing him to Kouta. I said at the time and I will say it again, he aint one of Kouta's ball bags.
I'd hope not, those ball bags are important to our father son prospects and I'm hoping the end result isn't another Tom Bell. No offense intended towards Bell, I'm just expecting a lot more from the Kouta blood line.
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
Fair enough DU, but do you really expect him to make much of a difference? What we need are some players who will bring in not only skills but also the leadership qualities and instincts to inspire others. Jeffy, nor Waite for that matter, have these qualities. In fact we need to look outside the club for them.
I don't know Cookie, we just looked so sloooooooooow all over the ground tonight
DU we are error prone in the midfield because we can't stand up to heavy opposition pressure AND we are not good at stopping big hard at it opposition mids such as the Swans have. Jeffy wouldn't do much to fix those problems I'm afraid and his speed would not be a factor for us since he wouldn't be seeing much of the ball, especially in situations like tonight's 3Q.
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
Fair enough DU, but do you really expect him to make much of a difference? What we need are some players who will bring in not only skills but also the leadership qualities and instincts to inspire others. Jeffy, nor Waite for that matter, have these qualities. In fact we need to look outside the club for them.
I don't know Cookie, we just looked so sloooooooooow all over the ground tonight
DU we are error prone in the midfield because we can't stand up to heavy opposition pressure AND we are not good at stopping big hard at it opposition mids such as the Swans have. Jeffy wouldn't do much to fix those problems I'm afraid and his speed would not be a factor for us since he wouldn't be seeing much of the ball, especially in situations like tonight's 3Q.
Garlett would have been useless...it was contested footy vs the kings of contested footy on their own dung heap.....he probably was glad to be left out of the team.
Bell can still become a very very good player, just needs to get rid of it fastrer..
Warnock must go, my Swannie supporting nate (with whom i was watching the game) asked if the guy wanted to play for Sydney his taps to their advantage were that good.
Seriously.
That second half was as lame an effort as i have seen since Pagan days....
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
It's not Daisy's fault that he is getting a game, because there were six or seven worse than him tonight.
Bell looks fat and not fit(No excuse for a bloke with a sore finger!), Walker makes bad decisions(COntinues to make bad decisions), Ellard had no impact(Can't compete against bigger bodies!), Tuohy had little impact(Confidence shot), Everitt was ordinary(Too timid and inconsistent), Warnock is just awful(I'm speechless about the weak effort of a 206cm 108kg player) and Yarran gave us nothing(Just disinterested!)!
A year or so ago I thought Bell getting caught with the ball was due to inexperience, I thought he'd wake up as he got more games under his belt. I'm still waiting for his slow reaction times to be a thing of the past, :(
And people started comparing him to Kouta. I said at the time and I will say it again, he aint one of Kouta's ball bags.
I'd hope not, those ball bags are important to our father son prospects and I'm hoping the end result isn't another Tom Bell. No offense intended towards Bell, I'm just expecting a lot more from the Kouta blood line.
Don't mind Tom Bell. Like Robbo, not alot of class but gives us something we badly lack more than anything, hardness and workrate. If our better players did the same we'd be alot better off. Can't ask for more.
Bell can still become a very very good player, just needs to get rid of it fastrer..
Warnock must go, my Swannie supporting nate (with whom i was watching the game) asked if the guy wanted to play for Sydney his taps to their advantage were that good.
Seriously.
That second half was as lame an effort as i have seen since Pagan days....
wtf is going on with him, for the last 3 years, since he made his appearance having had a delayed start due to injury, I thought it was simply a case of fitness. Then I noticed he would have a better second half to the season and assumed again because of fitness that took first half of season to get conditioning. This year he apparently had a good preseason and he still appears unfit. I'd this a metabolism issue or what??
Bell can still become a very very good player, just needs to get rid of it fastrer..
Warnock must go, my Swannie supporting nate (with whom i was watching the game) asked if the guy wanted to play for Sydney his taps to their advantage were that good.
Seriously.
That second half was as lame an effort as i have seen since Pagan days....
Warnock as the same problem as Sandlilands. Opposition know he's going to win the tap so they rove to him. Difference is though Sandilands provides more than just taps.
We have no other ruckmen right now unless we promote Wood. We'd would get a better result around the ground at least, probably quite a bit better, and that's saying something.
Bell can still become a very very good player, just needs to get rid of it fastrer..
Warnock must go, my Swannie supporting nate (with whom i was watching the game) asked if the guy wanted to play for Sydney his taps to their advantage were that good.
Seriously.
That second half was as lame an effort as i have seen since Pagan days....
Warnock as the same problem as Sandlilands. Opposition know he's going to win the tap so they rove to him. Difference is though Sandilands provides more than just taps.
We have no other ruckmen right now unless we promote Wood. We'd would get a better result around the ground at least, probably quite a bit better, and that's saying something.
yep, wood is well worth a try.
how can 80% of a team simply not try at this (professional) level?
It leaves me gob smacked.
I would be sacking someone within the admin/coaching team....fast.
Buddy and Mcveigh are both in my dream team....
Bring back Ratts! Fck this Malthouse fck. I really hope Judd plays on purely in an attempt to inspire leadership. Having said that he has been trying to do so for the last 7 years.
Bell can still become a very very good player, just needs to get rid of it fastrer..
Warnock must go, my Swannie supporting nate (with whom i was watching the game) asked if the guy wanted to play for Sydney his taps to their advantage were that good.
Seriously.
That second half was as lame an effort as i have seen since Pagan days....
Warnock as the same problem as Sandlilands. Opposition know he's going to win the tap so they rove to him. Difference is though Sandilands provides more than just taps.
We have no other ruckmen right now unless we promote Wood. We'd would get a better result around the ground at least, probably quite a bit better, and that's saying something.
The problem with that argument is that Pyke absolutely dominated Warnock in hitouts.
Interesting Laids still seemed very popular with the group. Could that be the reason he was treated so shabbily, Mick felt threatened by his popularity? Not suggesting I know this for one moment but it's certainly a situation that remains open to interpretation.
Didn't catch the game but from all reports the end result was predictable (sigh) so I didn't miss much!
Re Laidler I did catch the pre-game on 7Mate though and they were interviewing Laidler. He said he didn't really get a chance under MM and that MM had wanted to clean out a few players last year and that he didn't fit into MMs plans. He said players knew MM intended to have another clean out this year. Laidler observed that the Blues didn't seem to be playing with any confidence and weren't gelling as a team - he said it was sad to see. He also mentioned he had a lot of friends back at CFC.
The way Laidler spoke his mind I wondered if this is why he fell out with MM. I think he has quite strong opinions where MM is concerned and whether you want to call it sour grapes or not, he appeared genuinely concerned about what has/is going on at CFC and the effect it is having on the players.
we are seriously missing a crumber in our forward half. Hope Garlett has payed his dues in 2nds and is ready for a return.
Fair enough DU, but do you really expect him to make much of a difference? What we need are some players who will bring in not only skills but also the leadership qualities and instincts to inspire others. Jeffy, nor Waite for that matter, have these qualities. In fact we need to look outside the club for them.
Quality post
Sam Lane interviewed Juddy after the game and I thought I saw Bell in the background with his jumper off and he looked like he had a gut.
Did not see it EB, but if true WTF is going on? Saw Juddy post game last week and he's as ripped as Majak Daw. Bell should not get a game if he is carrying any type of body fat apart from the type that produces Father/son selections.
I'm at a loss now . My brother told me at the start of this year it would be a hard year to be a blue supporter. He said our best would be great but our wors would be terrible and he was right. He called it pre season (he's a hawk supporter) but I ask why is our good so good but our bad is so bad...........
I'm at a loss now . My brother told me at the start of this year it would be a hard year to be a blue supporter. He said our best would be great but our wors would be terrible and he was right. He called it pre season (he's a hawk supporter) but I ask why is our good so good but our bad is so bad...........
You could ask your brother the same about the Hawks. The reigning premiers are seriously under a cloud compared to the challengers who loom large and loud. Even Carlton (of whom you seek to demean) challenged the Hawks to the end. And now, so we were beaten by the flag favourites at their dung hole by a lot less than Geelong's final score against them is not a bragging rite.
I'm at a loss now . My brother told me at the start of this year it would be a hard year to be a blue supporter. He said our best would be great but our wors would be terrible and he was right. He called it pre season (he's a hawk supporter) but I ask why is our good so good but our bad is so bad...........
You could ask your brother the same about the Hawks. The reigning premiers are seriously under a cloud compared to the challengers who loom large and loud. Even Carlton (of whom you seek to demean) challenged the Hawks to the end. And now, so we were beaten by the flag favourites at their dung hole by a lot less than Geelong's final score against them is not a bragging rite.
What my brother said was at the start of the year before the hawks feel in a hole. And u just backed up what he said. Our best we took it to the hawks/Geelong/pies/ect. But lose to Melbourne/Gws/lions/tigers/etc.........
First game of the season I've been able to see the Blues.
Up to half-time, was quietly impressed with an 8-point deficit.
In the third quarter, 10.4 to 0.1 ................ I was appalled & embarassed!!
At the 20-min mark of the third, this young Swans muppet who kept standing up in front of us prior and we kept telling him to sit-down so we could see the game, stood up and said to me "are you still here ?"
I strongly said to him "sit down you clown, I didn't here a freakin' peep out of you prior to half-time yet you only have the guts to lip-off when you are 8-goals up, friggen hero (edited)".
Have hit the piss since ............. :(
First game of the season I've been able to see the Blues.
Up to half-time, was quietly impressed with an 8-point deficit.
In the third quarter, 10.4 to 0.1 ................ I was appalled & embarassed!!
At the 20-min mark of the third, this young Swans muppet who kept standing up in front of us prior and we kept telling him to sit-down so we could see the game, stood up and said to me "are you still here ?"
I strongly said to him "sit down you clown, I didn't here a freakin' peep out of you prior to half-time yet you only have the guts to lip-off when you are 8-goals up, friggen hero (edited)".
Have hit the piss since ............. :(
Should have reminded him Sheik that you support a club who reside across the border in which people actually give a fnck!! Remind him also about the fact that his flock of ducks have been able to rort the AFL salary cap to the point of "so bloody obvious" that they won't be getting no more Buddy's and Tippetts for Jack crape!! Cheating arsehole of a club, denied!!
I'm at a loss now . My brother told me at the start of this year it would be a hard year to be a blue supporter. He said our best would be great but our wors would be terrible and he was right. He called it pre season (he's a hawk supporter) but I ask why is our good so good but our bad is so bad...........
Mate we didn't make the 8 last year on our own steam, thought we were the nose and on the way down last year. Don't know where the optimism was coming from for this year to be honest. To many spuds who aren't unto AFL std and would get a game in any other side.
I really question the use of Graham as sub again. We know what Ellard brings to the team and that's the reason he hasn't been getting a game. Why not make Ellard the sub and give Graham a proper crack at it. If we're trying to 'regenerate' then it's moves like this that make me think our coach has lost the plot.
@Paul P
I agree 100% surprise surprise!
Ive seen abit of Graham in the twos and ones. I personally think he is useless and was another wasted pick.
Agree re Graham. Won't make it IMO.
So why not play him for a game, a whole game, and remove all doubt either way as opposed to playing Ellard?
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
Fark me mate all you do is make excuses for Mick and his son!
To all the Daisy knockers, after an 18 month foot injury it will take a year plus a preseason to get back full fitness back. No he is not earning his dollar, but few else out there are either.
Fark me mate all you do is make excuses for Mick and his son!
And all you do is crap can MM and anyone associated with him. FMD you even reckon he hounded Sam Lane coz Christy didn't get a media job. Thats pathetic if you ask me.
No I don't. I praised Mick after our efforts vs Hawthorn and Geelong. I even praised him for his defensive set up on Buddy in the in match thread at quarter time! Credit where credit is due. You didn't see that obviously? Or maybe it's easier to criticise if you ignore comments that don't contradict your beliefs? There seems to be plenty of give from someone like me but no give from the other side. Some people here think he is beyond questioning and not at fault for anything. Get a forking clue FFS and stop being so naive. As for the Sam Lane thing he's been treating her like dirt ever since. You know what the guy is like, you honestly think that has nothing to do with it? The most vindictive man in football, how could I possibly think such a thing? Mick's the one with the great reputation and you want to call me pathetic for getting that impression. Just join the apologists queue mate.
Sam Lane interviewed Juddy after the game and I thought I saw Bell in the background with his jumper off and he looked like he had a gut.
Did not see it EB, but if true WTF is going on? Saw Juddy post game last week and he's as ripped as Majak Daw. Bell should not get a game if he is carrying any type of body fat apart from the type that produces Father/son selections.
This is 100% true, I posted the same elsewhere about why would a sore finger cause weight gain!
Mick was right, may as well hand Sydney the cup now.
I really question the use of Graham as sub again. We know what Ellard brings to the team and that's the reason he hasn't been getting a game. Why not make Ellard the sub and give Graham a proper crack at it. If we're trying to 'regenerate' then it's moves like this that make me think our coach has lost the plot.
@Paul P
I agree 100% surprise surprise!
Ive seen abit of Graham in the twos and ones. I personally think he is useless and was another wasted pick.
Agree re Graham. Won't make it IMO.
So why not play him for a game, a whole game, and remove all doubt either way as opposed to playing Ellard?
Agree, in fact I posted that earlier.
Well Blaine Johnson apparently had a full game yesterday, not that anyone would have noticed. :))
Last week Blaine showed he is good enough to match it with the cellar dwellers of the the AFL but last night showed he's not up to it against the big boys.
Malthouse said earlier in the year that our younger players aren't quite ready yet and he was obviously correct.
Just where is this club going????
Like others, couldn't watch last night... knew what was going to happened but moreso, frustrated about coming on here and reading the same old crap about the same issues and the same old serial recidivists. Every week reads the same... eg Graham - who probably doesn't have it - made sub again - so we'll never know if he is up to it..... Warnock stinking it up.... Walker turning it over and making horrible decisions... Yarran hand braking it.... Touhy bereft of confidence..... Daisy doing SFA.... and so on and so and so on. What's that.... repeat for 17 rounds now?
If Bell fronted up fat after a finger injury he should be sacked.
Yes we have personnel and list issues but that doesn't excuse poor results.
Some basic standards need to be established - fitness, non negotiable effort and attack on the contest are the first three. I'm looking at you Buttifant for starters.... earn your money. As for Malthouse, it's 2014, start coaching like a professional manager of a $50 million business or screw OFF.
Seriously Mick, you took a middle of the road, but competitive team and made it uncompetitive.... FACT. What are you going to do about it supercoach?
As for the list, yes we have about 10-15 players that just aren't good enough. We have no depth... none. We know our recruiting sucked. So why do we continue to play these guys hoping they suddenly become world beaters , why not just cull them en masse and attempt to get somebody else in? Maybe playing some kids? If Malthouse hasn't made decisions regarding the future of blokes like Ellard et al. then that is simply mismanagement.
Gees our list is thin and shallow but crikey the bloke running the show doesn't seem to have much idea about turning the ship around.... who is navigating this voyage of the damned?
All I'm reading from here is the same crap regarding the same blokes
@MBB
So our older players are up to it?
Not sure how Blaine not being up to it has anything to do with giving Graham a go.
You need to keep in mind what we were up against.
This mob thrashed Geelong by over 100!
They are a premiership side from 2 years ago that could afford to add Tippett and Franklin. They have the biggest home ground advantage in the comp as their Micky Mouse ground is tailored to their style. With Port falling away and the Hawks injuries piling up I think Freo are their only real threat.
Carrots, what you and I think of Graham is irrelevant, but what you are correct in is that he has no opportunity as the sub to impact the game. He is not an impact player. Blokes like Bell are better subs as Graham is more an accumulator. Even a half fit Buckley would be a handy sub with his pace. Maybe Garlett to add some zip.
But we keep picking sloooooooooooooooow guys and hope they'll become the next Ian Stewart.
The kid should be given game time to see if he is good enough. Mick has no idea how to use the sub rule to any kind of advantage. Watch who the other sides play as subs - pacy runners seem to be the norm, not one paced plodders.
Spot on you need a player with a burst of speed, like you said, Graham is more a 'death by a million cuts' type of player. Give him a full game FFS. How many times does it need to be said?
His VFL games have involved high % on ground times.
Spot on you need a player with a burst of speed, like you said, Graham is more a 'death by a million cuts' type of player. Give him a full game FFS. How many times does it need to be said?
Clubs are still trying to adapt on how to use the sub.
Hawthorn last year tried using Savage as their sub a few times for his pace but the problem was he would come on and get 2 touches. In the grand final last year they chose Simpkin over Savage not because Simpkin performed better overall but because SImpkin performed better as a sub because he would come on and get 10 touches.
Personally I think we should be trying to use older players as the sub. I mentioned this a couple of years ago that we should use Scotland as a sub because we know he would come on and just get the footy.
When you send out a Middle Weight to fight against the Heavy Weight Champ on his home turf, you cant sook when he cops an almighty beating, as he's obviously fighting way out of his division...
The way people are carrying on about last night you'd ve thought we were 13th, and playing interstate against the side who is a game clear on top and in white hot form........ Oh wait.
Personally I think we should be trying to use older players as the sub. I mentioned this a couple of years ago that we should use Scotland as a sub because we know he would come on and just get the footy.
Not sure older players work as subs, spend too long on the bench and they get soft tissue injuries. Get another player injured early and they have to front a full game possibly after weeks of playing pieces here and there.
I don't think the problem isn't the sub use by the way, I think the clubs haven't woken up to how to correctly structure selection when subs are to be used.
When you send out a Middle Weight to fight against the Heavy Weight Champ on his home turf, you cant sook when he cops an almighty beating, as he's obviously fighting way out of his division...
The way people are carrying on about last night you'd ve thought we were 13th, and playing interstate against the side who is a game clear on top and in white hot form........ Oh wait.
You are wrong, it is not losing people are unhappy about, but it is the way the loss occurred that gets under our skin! It's like the only person who didn't see this coming was our coach!
- The Swans Super List list is topped up by players our bloke de-listed, not traded but de-listed!
- The spud C7 commentators announce half way through the 1st quarter that the boundary line hugging game plan will not survive on the SCG!
- The coach pots players after the game touting many list changes to come!
- He insults and derides a reporter(Who is a true blues supporter) at his presser, someone who just wants an answer, and indication of a direction! She asked what fans were thinking and was belittled for doing so!
- The coach cannot understand why his fully documented, repeated and long standing game plan gets picked apart in those close 50/50 contests.
- The players looked dejected, standing on the ground before the ball is even bounced to start the 2nd half they look like losers!
- There is not aggro, no fight, we are not going to make the finals so shouldn't it be time to make a stand! Push back!
Personally I think we should be trying to use older players as the sub. I mentioned this a couple of years ago that we should use Scotland as a sub because we know he would come on and just get the footy.
Not sure older players work as subs, spend too long on the bench and they get soft tissue injuries. Get another player injured early and they have to front a full game possible after weeks of playing pieces here and there.
I don't think the problem is the sub use by the way, I think the clubs haven't woken up to how to correctly structure selection when subs are to be used.
I did mention this a couple of years ago and yes the Judd incident kind of put a hole in my argument.
I did mention this a couple of years ago and yes the Judd incident kind of put a hole in my argument.
Actually I don't think the Judd incident is a good example, he probably would have been injured regardless. The problem there is the lack of umpires paying clear push in the back penalties. They start paying some in the back down field and that crap stops dead! The McVeigh push last night was another good example!
I base my comments about older subs and benched players on how I see older players being used at VFL or lower levels. Few are successful off the bench. Once they are warm let them go out and influence the game to their maximum ability for 2 or 3 quarters knowing they won't make it through a full match, then use the sub!
You have to have a clear strategy or purpose re. The Sub. Is the sub there to have an impact later in the game to try and get you over the line? Or is he there to bottle up a game and save wear and tear on one of your stars once a game is in the bag? Obviously the reasons can vary week to week, and injury can change everything. I don't think a good use is to put a young bloke on the pine for 3 qtrs and then hope he can come on and get meaningful experience.
But to do it 3-4 times without giving that player a fair crack at it, is he trying to break the kid or what? Is he taking the piss? Is this some kind of perverse punishment for something he may have done at training? Maybe Graham's old man picked on Mick at school?
Seriously, the Dawks have used it better than any with Bailey, they stretched teams early to take the run out of the defenders legs then tore them a new one with small / medium mobile forwards in the second half of games. That is tactical sub use!
However, it won't work for us because Warnock is a spud around the ground, the only thing he stretched was something a long long time ago!
The injury stuff you cannot control so don't worry about it, just make do to your best when an injury occurs!
Just my thoughts on some of our players :
Murph - has the face and body of a 12 year old pre pubescent boy, but led by example and was BOG for mine
Gibbs - thankfully kept his usual pack skirting to a minimum, impacted a few contests, a couple of dodgy disposals, and whilst not great, was still pretty good
Judd - quiet, not much impact, went ok.
Simmo - is he injured ? Seems slower than usual. Some good, some not so good.
Jamo - battled hard against a very well drilled forward line, carrying one of the elite forwards of the comp.
Rowe -if we work on the assumption that player improvements are down to the senior coach, then Mick deserves marks for Rowe. Gives 100% every week, his positioning and marking ability are more than adequate. At this point, I'm happy to have have him in the back half. Buddy has towelled up defenders much better than Rowe. A real improver. As for his disposal……………
Levi - same as Rowe, could almost be classified as a coaching success story. Big and strong, positions himself well, reasonable leap, and soft sticky hands most forwards would kill for. But his kicking…….. I will personally pay Barker's wage, and forgive him all his obvious shortcomings and past failures, if he can get Levi to kick straight. A straight kicking Levi would be something special. At this point in time, his awful kicking means that you can only play him out of the goal square if you want to get maximum return for our F50 entries. Anything outside the goal square will rarely result in a goal.
2E- has gotten better as the season has progressed, but still way off his best. Looks a little lost TBH.
Walks - this one really breaks my heart. His season has been shizen, and last night was no exception. I hope he can get back to his best. Love the guy.
Yazz- we got the bad Yazz last night. Don't think I saw him once run and carry the ball more than 15m. Seemed very happy to pass it off asap. Obviously thought the trip on the plane was for a holiday. His playful jousting with Buddy is a bad look and has to stop asap. He doesn't seem to take the game all that seriously, but if so, he should save it for after the game. Needs to be given pre game injections of bacteria to induce real white line fever.
Everiit - still not seeing the love for this guy. I can't work out why he's there, what his attributes are, or why he improves the team. This may be a criticism of me as much as him. Either way, not convinced.
Docherty - also not sure about this bloke, but seems better than Everitt.
Brock - always loved Brock, but as per 2E, not having great season and seems a little lost. Took a good mark and goal.
Johnson - no comment to make
Ellard - always hoped he'd do well, but struggles too much at this level.
Curnow - if we could get his disposal to improve, he could find a place in our starting 22. At this point, jury's out for mine.
No matter which side of the Malthouse/Ratten fence you sit you can't ignore the elephant in the room, which is our abysmal recruiting for over a decade.
Outside out top 6 picks the only half decent player we've drafted is Robbo at pick 40, the rest have been abject failures, if you're super generous you might include Armfield.
Yeah Menzel looks like he'll measure up but what about our other first rounders in recent years, Watson, Lucas and Bootsma?
As far as our second and third rounders go it's like reading the script from a horror movie.
Grigg, Hampson, Bower, Hartlett, Browne, Austin, Mitchell, McCarthy, Edwards, Davies, Benjamin taken two picks before Lindsay Thomas, Temay who is soon to disappear without a trace.
Where is our Andrew Swallow at 43, Rory Sloane at 44, Dane Swan at 51?
It wouldn't matter if you morphed Barrassi, Matthews and Norm Smith together and got the resultant super coach to the club, only Melbourne has a recruiting record anywhere near as bad as ours.
We are paying the price for our own ineptitude.
Rowe -if we work on the assumption that player improvements are down to the senior coach, then Mick deserves marks for Rowe. Gives 100% every week, his positioning and marking ability are more than adequate. At this point, I'm happy to have have him in the back half. Buddy has towelled up defenders much better than Rowe. A real improver. As for his disposal……………
Nice summary Paul. Just on Rowe you definitely have to give Mick the credit, his career seemed over but now he's one of our best defenders so he's turned his career around.
Rowe -if we work on the assumption that player improvements are down to the senior coach, then Mick deserves marks for Rowe. Gives 100% every week, his positioning and marking ability are more than adequate. At this point, I'm happy to have have him in the back half. Buddy has towelled up defenders much better than Rowe. A real improver. As for his disposal……………
Nice summary Paul. Just on Rowe you definitely have to give Mick the credit, his career seemed over but now he's one of our best defenders so he's turned his career around.
Thanks Chris.
@blue4life
Humor me for a moment if you will. If we take the CFC recruits you name in the middle of your post, and say they had been recruited by the Hawks, Pies, Swans etc. Never mind the obvious retort that "those teams would never recruit spuds etc." I'm just curious, IF they did go to those teams, where do you think those players would be now ?
Many would play decent footy at the better clubs because they have better support around them (on and off field) and would be fitter. Laidler is proof of that. Other clubs would play them in more suitable roles and positions.
Leaving aside the straight out spuds, I think it is a misnomer to say that much of our list "wouldn't get a game at club X"... maybe not in current form but I reckon many would. For example; Garlett, going at 40 goals a year would, right now, no.
The question going through my mind is WHY ARE THESE BLOKES NOT PLAYING TO THEIR POTENTIAL because many clearly can play? Why do blokes have to leave to play to their potential elsewhere??? Why are there deficiencies not being addressed???
Just my thoughts on some of our players :
Murph - has the face and body of a 12 year old pre pubescent boy, but led by example and was BOG for mine Agree
Gibbs - thankfully kept his usual pack skirting to a minimum, impacted a few contests, a couple of dodgy disposals, and whilst not great, was still pretty good Perhaps a bit better than that
Judd - quiet, not much impact, went ok. Agree
Simmo - is he injured ? Seems slower than usual. Some good, some not so good. Agree
Jamo - battled hard against a very well drilled forward line, carrying one of the elite forwards of the comp. Agree
Rowe -if we work on the assumption that player improvements are down to the senior coach, then Mick deserves marks for Rowe. Gives 100% every week, his positioning and marking ability are more than adequate. At this point, I'm happy to have have him in the back half. Buddy has towelled up defenders much better than Rowe. A real improver. As for his disposal…………… Agree
Levi - same as Rowe, could almost be classified as a coaching success story. Big and strong, positions himself well, reasonable leap, and soft sticky hands most forwards would kill for. But his kicking…….. I will personally pay Barker's wage, and forgive him all his obvious shortcomings and past failures, if he can get Levi to kick straight. A straight kicking Levi would be something special. At this point in time, his awful kicking means that you can only play him out of the goal square if you want to get maximum return for our F50 entries. Anything outside the goal square will rarely result in a goal. Agree, but his disposal does seem to have improved markedly, his good weeks he kicks reasonably well.
2E- has gotten better as the season has progressed, but still way off his best. Looks a little lost TBH.Agree, I love the guy but he has struggled all year
Walks - this one really breaks my heart. His season has been shizen, and last night was no exception. I hope he can get back to his best. Love the guy. Agree
Yazz- we got the bad Yazz last night. Don't think I saw him once run and carry the ball more than 15m. Seemed very happy to pass it off asap. Obviously thought the trip on the plane was for a holiday. His playful jousting with Buddy is a bad look and has to stop asap. He doesn't seem to take the game all that seriously, but if so, he should save it for after the game. Needs to be given pre game injections of bacteria to induce real white line fever. Agree
Everiit - still not seeing the love for this guy. I can't work out why he's there, what his attributes are, or why he improves the team. This may be a criticism of me as much as him. Either way, not convinced. Totally disagree. He's no champ but he has height, run, versatlity, big and pretty accurate kick, can run with guys, lot to like
Docherty - also not sure about this bloke, but seems better than Everitt. Disagree. he has shown a lot, though looked tired for some weeks now and might warrant a rest
Brock - always loved Brock, but as per 2E, not having great season and seems a little lost. Took a good mark and goal. Think he might be cooked. His lack of pace just allows us to be opened up so easily that the good he does - which is getting less and less as time rolls on - is just nowhere near enough to balance the ledger
Johnson - no comment to make Went missing, but a young kid who showed something last week and came up against a quality he's never seen before can be excused to some extent
Ellard - always hoped he'd do well, but struggles too much at this level. Agree
Curnow - if we could get his disposal to improve, he could find a place in our starting 22. At this point, jury's out for mine. Disagree. Like to see his disposal better but in a run with role his elite endurance is ideal - and sadly lacking across the team
Many would play decent footy at the better clubs because they have better support around them (on and off field) and would be fitter. Laidler is proof of that. Other clubs would play them in more suitable roles and positions.
Leaving aside the straight out spuds, I think it is a misnomer to say that much of our list "wouldn't get a game at club X"... maybe not in current form but I reckon many would. For example; Garlett, going at 40 goals a year would, right now, no.
The question going through my mind is WHY ARE THESE BLOKES NOT PLAYING TO THEIR POTENTIAL because many clearly can play? Why do blokes have to leave to play to their potential elsewhere??? Why are there deficiencies not being addressed???
Yep, and that's what my question was hinting at. A lot of talk about recruitment, which can be luck and guesswork as much as anything else. Development, however, is much less based on luck and guesswork, and is much more controllable. Get the right people in place, and off you go. Fitness, conditioning, the right support structures and practice, practice, practice.
@ianh
Fair enough matey.
Thanks Chris.
@blue4life
Humor me for a moment if you will. If we take the CFC recruits you name in the middle of your post, and say they had been recruited by the Hawks, Pies, Swans etc. Never mind the obvious retort that "those teams would never recruit spuds etc." I'm just curious, IF they did go to those teams, where do you think those players would be now ?
A few have gone to other clubs, I guess you could say that Grigg has done OK but it any of the rest of them were any good they would have been given the opportunity.
You can't polish a turd Paul.
I left out a few more of our earlier failures as well and concentrated on the period since we got back in the draft in 2004, Jordan Russell was actually a good selection from a shallow draft but prior to that we drafted Livingstone, Wiggins and Sporn in the top 15, if any of them had worked they could all have still been playing, they were in the same draft as Nick Riewoldt, Shaun Burgoyne and Ted Richards.
In that same draft our second and third rounders were Blake Campbell and Sean O'Keefe, do they ring a bell?
We've missed out on a whole generation of experienced players but we have no one to blame but ourselves.
It's a hangover from the Elliott days, we never embraced the draft and didn't devote the resources necessary, the days of buying Kernahan, Bradley, Motley and Dorotich as a job lot are long gone.
Yep, and that's what my question was hinting at. A lot of talk about recruitment, which can be luck and guesswork as much as anything else.
Recruiting is not an exact science and no one is suggesting that it is, but 12 or 14 years of failure can't be put down to bad luck.
@ianh
Re. Brock, I agree that he is nowhere near it for pace and has become a net liability for us. Had a debate with a fellow CFC supporter at the Saints game who thought Brock was a solid contributor and not a worry. He was OK some of the time in that game but even so he was shown up to me as archetypical of our midfield problems. Can look good when he has got the ball in the clear, but even then makes the odd critical error and turns it over.
When he hasn't got the ball is where his problems really show up - he just cannot get near opposition ball carriers to even think about laying a tackle or forcing a turnover. He knows that all too well and you can see him visibly just give up even trying to catch them. That IMO is disastrous, especially v. teams like the Swans and while we are relying on players of Brocks standard we will never get any better.
There is a very simple answer.
Not good enough
Warnock
Mcclean
Ellard
Touhy
Graham
White
Bell
Not hard enough
Garlett
Yarran
Not skilled enough
Walker
Simpson
Rowe
Cas
Robo
Curnow
Watson
Armfield
That leaves
Gibbs,murph,jamo,Hendo,doc,Everitt,menz,Judd and we are stuck with Thomas
The numbers just do not ad up for us to compete against the big boys.
Must go at seasons end
Warnock,McLean,Judd,Waite,ellard,graham,white,armfield,Tuohy,Watson and a few more that are playing in the twos and also ad the three that are already gone.
Start again if we want to get. Anywhere in the next ten years
Like it or not at least it's my opinion.
Here are the major reasons why we are sh1te IMO. It's mainly to do with our midfield, which I've harped on about before. Our established mids leave a lot to be desired and we have precious few coming through, It needs urgent attention if we are to get any better.
Murphy – OK but not physically strong and can get pushed around. Improving here though.
Gibbs – OK, but not been too fond of the hard stuff and tended to skirt packs. Shown more recently.
Judd – Solid contributor, but for how much longer.
McLean – Glacier slow, poor in terms of stopping the opposition mids.
Bell – Physical but lacks skill, finesse and vision.
Robinson – Goes hard but again lacks skill, especially disposal can be a problem.
Curnow – Strictly a shut-down player. Poor disposal.
Carrazzo – Injury prone, nearing the end.
Armfield – Pacy but error prone, lacks high level skills.
Lucas – Gone.
Thomas – Jury out.
Ellard – Gone.
Personally I think we should be trying to use older players as the sub. I mentioned this a couple of years ago that we should use Scotland as a sub because we know he would come on and just get the footy.
Not sure older players work as subs, spend too long on the bench and they get soft tissue injuries. Get another player injured early and they have to front a full game possibly after weeks of playing pieces here and there.
I don't think the problem isn't the sub use by the way, I think the clubs haven't woken up to how to correctly structure selection when subs are to be used.
Touhy should be sub. I think he's got all the aspects of a good sub player! I mentioned it in the pre-game thread
Touhy should be sub. I think he's got all the aspects of a good sub player! I mentioned it in the pre-game thread
I think he should get a run in the midfield.
He's still learning the game but the best way to learn is by doing, he's strong, tough, reasonably quick, tackles well and has good skills.
He'd make mistakes short term but let's face it, we won't be pushing top four any time soon.
Touhy should be sub. I think he's got all the aspects of a good sub player! I mentioned it in the pre-game thread
I think he should get a run in the midfield.
He's still learning the game but the best way to learn is by doing, he's strong, tough, reasonably quick, tackles well and has good skills.
He'd make mistakes short term but let's face it, we won't be pushing top four any time soon.
If only we had two of him. :D
I agree though. He has the best acceleration in our team, something we could use in the guts. When he's at his best, he is a very good footballer
Bit scary really given the Swans only have Goodes and McVeigh who you would put in the old category and McVeigh is still braining teams in terms of getting the footy and using it well...we are along way off the pace in terms of development when you see their kids like Parker, Smith etc.
You look at numpties like Lucas, Mcinnes, Watson etc and we look very poor in comparison.....Buddy, Reid and Tippet are not old so they are going to have plenty of firepower for seasons to come.
Its hard for me to see where we can make quick ground on them over the next few years...
Such a great team effort ::)
First game of the season I've been able to see the Blues.
Up to half-time, was quietly impressed with an 8-point deficit. In the third quarter, 10.4 to 0.1 ................ I was appalled & embarassed!!
At the 20-min mark of the third, this young Swans muppet who kept standing up in front of us prior and we kept telling him to sit-down so we could see the game, stood up and said to me "are you still here ?"
I strongly said to him "sit down you clown, I didn't hear a freakin' peep out of you prior to half-time yet you only have the guts to lip-off when you are 8-goals up, friggen hero (edited version)".
Hit the p1ss after that !!
Warnock was abominable tonight !!
I watched a throw-in right in front of us and he double-fisted it back over the boundary.
I applauded and said "great ruck work Robert" which drew immense laughter from the Swans fans around me.
******* embarrassing !!
I'm an unabashed fan of Andrew Walker but I saw some things tonight that really made me want to re-assess my view on him. There were times where he refused to chase and/or apply pressure and it genuinely worried me.
Why was he so lacksadaisal tonight when clearly he is capable of way better than that ??
First game of the season I've been able to see the Blues.
Up to half-time, was quietly impressed with an 8-point deficit. In the third quarter, 10.4 to 0.1 ................ I was appalled & embarassed!!
At the 20-min mark of the third, this young Swans muppet who kept standing up in front of us prior and we kept telling him to sit-down so we could see the game, stood up and said to me "are you still here ?"
I strongly said to him "sit down you clown, I didn't hear a freakin' peep out of you prior to half-time yet you only have the guts to lip-off when you are 8-goals up, friggen hero (edited version)".
Hit the p1ss after that !!
Warnock was abominable tonight !!
I watched a throw-in right in front of us and he double-fisted it back over the boundary.
I applauded and said "great ruck work Robert" which drew immense laughter from the Swans fans around me.
******* embarrassing !!
I'm an unabashed fan of Andrew Walker but I saw some things tonight that really made me want to re-assess my view on him. There were times where he refused to chase and/or apply pressure and it genuinely worried me.
Why was he so lacksadaisal tonight when clearly he is capable of way better than that ??
Walker's disposal is woeful at times....how many kicks grub in front of his targetted player and force that player into a contest...he isnt consistent enough with his delivery.
Play him forward and leave him there....
Plus Mitchell, Heeney and that kid next year EB, they are setting up for a dynasty.
I think the experiment of playing Walker and Simpson as defenders is well and truly over. They are both too easily out bodied and lack the skill set of true defenders.
Both should be played as wingers/half forwards.
Our backline needs a couple of dour defenders, a bit like Laidler, or a defender with a bit of dash. Malceski is out of contract ???
Sat there in the freezing bloody cold last night, wet 4rse and no feeling in my hands or feet.
Once upon a time the Carlton jersey stood for pride, some might say too much pride.
Once upon a time guys earned the right to put that navy blue jersey on, and fought for the right to keep it.
Even in "the dark days", more often than not our guys put in effort and gutsed it out. They stood up for one another and they went down fighting.
These guys lack heart, they lack effort and they lack pride in playing for the navy blue. They need to stand up and have a crack, show some pride and show that they know how fortunate they are to one be playing football for a living, something most kids would give their right nut to do, and two that they know how lucky they are to be wearing such a hallowed guernsey.
The rubbish they dished up last night had nothing to do with anything except a lack of effort. In one passage of play the swans went from a kick in to our 50m line with 9 uncontested marks. How does that happen?
You can say what you want about coaches and off-field staff. Fine, lets get rid of the lot of them and bring in a whole new setup. It wont change a thing. Get some on field leadership, and get rid of the culture of entitlement and then we might see some results. (I acknowledge the fact that our captain is having a fair dinkum crack, but he just isn't able to bring the rest of the team with him).
I'm an unabashed fan of Andrew Walker but I saw some things tonight that really made me want to re-assess my view on him. There were times where he refused to chase and/or apply pressure and it genuinely worried me.
Why was he so lacksadaisal tonight when clearly he is capable of way better than that ??
He has been down right woeful all year in my opinion. Couldn't hit the side of a barn if he tried.
I HAVE A COMPLAINT.
Can someone tell me why we have the absolute worst club website in the world.
The game has been over for about 16 hours. Mick gave a press conference after the game. I have been logging on to the CFC web site all day and the imbeciles that run it, still haven't posted it.
Is there somewhere else that I can watch it.
This isn't the first time that they have been so useless. The ones that mick gives in the morning a couple of days before a game, aren't put up until about 5.00 o'clock that afternoon around 8 hours after he's given the pressy at our ground for Gods sake. And those responsible for uploading stuff, can't get their act together and put the pressy up within at the very worst, an hour of Mick holding it.
That's pretty much the story of the whole club at the moment. >:( >:( >:(
SO, I just went to the AFL web site. Click on video and there is Mick sitting at the table. I click on play, and get the message that the video I want to watch is not currently available. WHY THE FK NOT??
All useless pr!!!cks. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
SO, I just went to the AFL web site. Click on video and there is Mick sitting at the table. I click on play, and get the message that the video I want to watch is not currently available. WHY THE FK NOT??
All useless pr!!!cks. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
You're obviously referring to Mick's after match presser ? I just tried it now, and it works fine here.
SO, I just went to the AFL web site. Click on video and there is Mick sitting at the table. I click on play, and get the message that the video I want to watch is not currently available. WHY THE FK NOT??
All useless pr!!!cks. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
You're obviously referring to Mick's after match presser ? I just tried it now, and it works fine here.
Thanks, I'll try again. :D
Nup, won't play on the AFL site, I'll have a look at the CFC site and see if it's still up there. I also tried longmires but it didn't work either.
Finally, it's up on our beloved CFC web site.
Maybe they read this forum. Be great if they did. They can pass on our thoughts to Michael and Company. :-\ :-\
I think the experiment of playing Walker and Simpson as defenders is well and truly over. They are both too easily out bodied and lack the skill set of true defenders.
Both should be played as wingers/half forwards.
Our backline needs a couple of dour defenders, a bit like Laidler, or a defender with a bit of dash. Malceski is out of contract ???
Been saying for years
Swans physically monstered us including our captain.
But our players are "good blokes" so we keep them with new contracts ..
A totally lazy unaccountable club now.....
Nup, won't play on the AFL site, I'll have a look at the CFC site and see if it's still up there. I also tried longmires but it didn't work either.
The AFL site is very busy I suspect, very slow generally. Needs more capacity as it doesn't seem to handle peak times very well. The AFL app is also struggling. I'm having no problem with the CFC site.
Nup, won't play on the AFL site, I'll have a look at the CFC site and see if it's still up there. I also tried longmires but it didn't work either.
The AFL site is very busy I suspect, very slow generally. Needs more capacity as it doesn't seem to handle peak times very well. The AFL app is also struggling. I'm having no problem with the CFC site.
Thanks cookie, but, I still can't understand why it took our mob till about 5 minutes ago to put it up.
Oh, and last week when we beat the aints, it was up within half an hour of the win. The fact that we won wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it? :-\ :-\
Just watching the filth get thrashed by the cheats. Normally, the filth getting beaten would cheer me up, but not today. :'( :'(
Down by a goal at half time and then in the space of a quarter be down by 70 odd points ?? We are crap and that is that. I agree with your comment too Bignic. watching the filth get smashed was no fun after last nights crap.