Remember to post here after the game. I'll be there, so I won't be quick off the mark.
StKilda: Bring it on!!
Carlton: Shoo fly.
Great win to beat a team who did everything they could to purely negate against our game plan and to be behind by 4 goals at half time and run over them i think it’s a great win. Showed Lyons style is one dimensional when you crack it and still with 2 goals down with 6 mins to go they refused to go into the middle.
Hats off to Dow. Cops a lot of flak and boy did he show today when we needed it most what he can do. Had he’s negatives like ball use but as a contested player he can win the footy when you need it won.
Newman amazing all day. Pit on the other hand loses his spot the second Jack is ready.
Dow, Fisher, Marchbank...even Pittonet, all got better the longer the game went.
Good win worth more than 4 points... a lot of kudos to Nick Newman who will push for best and fairest honors this season, thought he played well all game not just in the second half and was well supported by Weitering who did his job too.
Charlie wasnt a factor which isnt such a bad thing and a few players chipped in with goals at the right time.
Fisher had a lot of ball off half back but its a move I'm skeptical on and need to see more of in the leadup games to the finals.
Ditto with Paddy Dow and Marchbank in the team, Dow had a good second half but those first half errors reminded me of why he hasnt been in the team and Marchbanks lack of pace on a big ground would concern me if I was coaching.
If Dutchy does not get this week's rising star nom I will spew up...🤮🤢
I'm stoked. We found a way to win despite the scoreboard. A pure sign of our progress IMO.
Looking forward to Lyon's presser 🤣 Outplayed, outclassed, and outcoached. All in q3 &4.
Nearly enjoyed than more than the Collingwood win. Hell of a game from Newman
If Dutchy does not get this week's rising star nom I will spew up...🤮🤢
He was immense.
Dutchy the young stick figure that has no fear gets rolled over and bounces back up again and makes an impact - by gosh you gotta love this kids ticker. Future captain or at the very least future figure in leadership group.
Nearly enjoyed than more than the Collingwood win. Hell of a game from Newman
Yes I agree, but i can't really explain why.
Yes I agree, but i can't really explain why.
Why? We were challenged, we regrouped and we collectively responded. This team is different!
Very good win
The game changer
https://www.afl.com.au/video/996570/speedy-motlop-marathon-delivers-the-goods?videoId=996570&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1691306296001
The game changer
https://www.afl.com.au/video/996570/speedy-motlop-marathon-delivers-the-goods?videoId=996570&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1691306296001
Was a good goal and he looked quicker than I have seen him before, hopefully the club dont feel the need to waste money on Jade Gresham given the form of our small forwards in recent weeks.
The game changer
https://www.afl.com.au/video/996570/speedy-motlop-marathon-delivers-the-goods?videoId=996570&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1691306296001
Was a good goal, but i don't know how Saints player didn't smother that. His arms went over the top of the ball.
Can't remember the last time we flipped a game on its head like that. Normally we give it up when it gets in that situation. This time there was real fight. This told me more about the current team than any of the other wins we dominated from the start, including Port and Collingwood.
We’ll Ross Lyon wasn’t exactly glowing about us after the match, stared that he knew what we were capable of which is a what we brought in the second half and good teams will be able to handle it, I guess that means the Saints aint a good team.
No one does ‘bitter’ better than Ross in a losing press conference, flog!
Sensational fightback with leadership on every line. We found a different way to win. Impressive. Culture, belief, and teamwork seems to be landing.
Despite our injuries and the returns from injuries, we saw another fairly even spread of the load. That speaks to depth. How fabulous would it be to have a healthy list 🤞
Lyon reluctantly admitting Carlton.....
- obliterated
- annihilated
- made it impossible
- stopped us getting a glove on it
🤣 That's entertainment
Lots of positives for us but there’s one question that should have been put to Lyon:
Why did you continue with an extra player in defence when you lost the lead?
Why did you continue with an extra player in defence when you lost the lead?
Had a Malthouse moment, living on past glory! ;)
We’ll Ross Lyon wasn’t exactly glowing about us after the match, stared that he knew what we were capable of which is a what we brought in the second half and good teams will be able to handle it, I guess that means the Saints aint a good team.
No one does ‘bitter’ better than Ross in a losing press conference, flog!
His record as a coach is pretty good and speaks for itself, but gee he is hard to love. His whole demeanour...........ugh.
Everyone got their grand final tickets sorted.
Came from behind against a 'bogey' side. Depleted stocks didn't deter us grinding out one of our more impressive wins in recent history.
Most stood up when they had to, especially in the 2nd half. Newman, Dutchy, Acres, Docherty - outstanding.
Most stood up when they had to, especially in the 2nd half. Newman, Dutchy, Acres, Docherty - outstanding.
Thought it was a very even team performance, probably Newman and Weiters were the standouts.
I thought Charlie was spectacular in the first quarter, best field kick of any AFL tall going around at the moment!
I hope fans are starting to see why we need both Pitto and TDK.
How we manage them in the future will be critical to our success, if we'd only had one today Marshall wouldn't have just got the stats he probably would have got the chocolates as well! ;)
It's Pitto keeping up the physical pressure, that allows TDK to gain the momentum, no respite for the opposition.
I agree Hollands had a good game, but ignoring the result his direct opponent was probably the BoG.
The first half was as bad as we've been all season; fumbles, turnovers, miskicks and not smart movement. We had a lot of players really down:
Tom de Koning barely had a touch in the first half.
Marc Pittonet was well beaten early, and couldn't affect his opponent at all.
Fog couldn't get near it.
Hollands fumbled and got pushed aside far too easily. That first half was his worst game by kilometres.
Dow got to give it away.
Kemp fumbled and miskicked and dropped marks.
Cuningham fumbled and turned the ball over.
Saad couldn't get near it.
That is a huge part of our team who were really having shockers.
After half time:
Tom de Koning was far more effective. he got the ball, he got his hand on the ball and his goal was a miracle. 200 % better.
Marc Pittonet got on top in the ruck and started taking marks around the ground and getting clearances. His game was maybe 400% better.
Fog still struggled, but he put in and made a contribution with his body. It was his worst game for quite a while, but even he lifted significantly.
Hollands grew an extra leg. His turned his worst game into a good game, he was more physical, he provided a good option and he ran his opponents into the ground.
Dow started hitting targets. His goal was brilliant, but he was really hard at it.
Kemp turned his game around and started providing drive from defence.
Cuningham started hitting targets and his goal was special.
Saad didn't get a lot of ball, but he kept his man to nothing and provided drive when we needed it. Still his quietest game for ages, but he didn't get beaten in the second half.
That sort of improvement was why we won. Cripps lifted: he dominated clearances.
Docherty was excellent all day, but for his one terrible turnover.
Fisher played his most effective gave ever!
Charlie was double and triple teamed, but still provided some killer moment. His passes made 2 goals.
Nic Newman: 35 possessions, 4 clearances, 13 marks, 3 tackles and God knows what more. How BOG could he be?
Blake Acres: probably his most complete game for us. His goals were crucial. he popped up in the right spot to make intercept marks and he made things happen.
One guy who struggled a lot today was Caleb Marchbank. He really didn't have a lot of impact, and he made a couple of terrible errors. However, he still went about it the right way.
I can't see him getting a game when McGovern is fit.
Do we keep him? His best is excellent, but after missing so much footy, he looks well off the pace. he will be a very hard decision come season's end. besides, he still has some chance of making me look like an idiot.
On the other hand, Jade Gresham was underwhelming. With the improved form of Martin, Owies and Motlop, do we really need him? Martin at his best is lethal. Owies plays for the jumper and gives his all. Motlop could be anything. Even Small Durds looks like he has a future, even though he hasn't shown much of it this year. Granted Fog had a real dirty day today, but he has done things I've never seen from Gresham; tackles and spoils and chases and pressure.
The first half was as bad as we've been all season; fumbles, turnovers, miskicks and not smart movement. We had a lot of players really down:
Not just us, I thought both teams fumbled a lot, it was like the pill was greasy early in the game, just that the Aints made the most of limited opportunities.
Thought the win was epic. It was like a final.
Hate these MoFos like nothing else, like I mean I really detest them. At halftime I thought it was going to be the same old story again but maybe this side is somehow different. Even at 3/4 time I wasn't sure we were up to it. So many disappointments over the years.
Massive result. Absolutely out of the box massive under the circumstances. Found something and got the job done. The atmosphere at the game was incredible. Really hope the Kemp injury wasn't serious. Can't afford anymore injuries.
Go Blues
Righto, fired off some negativity way too early in the In-Game thread, that's just my conditioning kicking from the last 20 odd years so apologies. I can't stand Stk, they have caused us ,much grief over the years so it was awesome to get the win.
Apologies to Paddy Dow, threw some shade over him and ending up being one of our match winners.
Newman goes from strength to strength, incredible.
A solid performance in the end against a side who has dined out on us in the past all achieved without Charlie barely firing a shot (on the scoreboard).
Lots of positives for us but there’s one question that should have been put to Lyon:
Why did you continue with an extra player in defence when you lost the lead?
Yep... and Ross, Lenny and Cory can you come up with something different than Sinclair to the middle?
Righto, fired off some negativity way too early in the In-Game thread, that's just my conditioning kicking from the last 20 odd years so apologies. I can't stand Stk, they have caused us ,much grief over the years so it was awesome to get the win.
Apologies to Paddy Dow, threw some shade over him and ending up being one of our match winners.
Newman goes from strength to strength, incredible.
A solid performance in the end against a side who has dined out on us in the past all achieved without Charlie barely firing a shot (on the scoreboard).
You were right on Dow GTC...Voss was going to sub him off until that goal went through, he still makes a lot of errors and while I liked his efforts to get the ball today and he played a good second half he is still 50/50 to turn it over when he gets the ball and I cant see him holding his spot when the big dogs like Walsh and Cerra come back.
You were right on Dow GTC...Voss was going to sub him off until that goal went through, he still makes a lot of errors and while I liked his efforts to get the ball today and he played a good second half he is still 50/50 to turn it over when he gets the ball and I cant see him holding his spot when the big dogs like Walsh and Cerra come back.
I just wonder if that goal to put us in front was the turning point for him, his confidence would have been sky high at the point. I thought he got better as the game went on. He was important today, it seems the key to our success over the last 7 weeks is players just going their job, no more no less.
Was a good goal and he looked quicker than I have seen him before, hopefully the club dont feel the need to waste money on Jade Gresham given the form of our small forwards in recent weeks.
I agree. Let's spend it on Marcus Bontempelli instead.
I agree. Let's spend it on Marcus Bontempelli instead.
Is Bont even getable?
I've been really concerned with Acres disposal but it was much,much better today.
Just listening to Voss's press conference...while giving him some praise for his effort he talked of Dow wanting to be an AFL player and his comments were very much couched in terms of the present, and what Dow can do for us now, rather than the future. I think he'll still be on the table and we'll take the best offer...and Dow will get some more senior time at another club.
But he does seem popular with his team-mates and the crowd appreciated his late match effort.
As Voss said they probably would have rioted if he was subbed out after the goal.
Was interesting to see a number of players go to Stocker at the end of the game for a catch-up.
Is Bont even getable?
Nope.....Bont would be a shortner for the Brownlow with Nick Daicos indisposed for a while, with a name like Bontempelli he should have been in Navy Blue and adorned over the windows in Lygon Street. Imagine Bont and Cripps in the same team.....
Dow played a good quality game and gave a great effort. I agree with others, that when Cerra and Walsh return it will be difficult to find a place for Dow in the starting 22. However with efforts like today in future games, Dow will raise his value which will definitely give him opportunities at another club. His value could return our side some rewards with trade.
One thing caught my eye and I was wondering if anyone else saw the same thing. While Ed was being close to be entered as a sub he was talking on the phone a couple of times. It looked like he was being given instructions on how to execute his role in the last quarter. All while sitting right next to Voss. Was this because Voss as senior coach had too much focus on the game and what other players were doing? Was this because individual coaches give specific game instructions which is part of their role? Allowing the head coach to focus on rotating the bench. I would have thought that traditionally the head coach next to his player on the bench would give specific instructions. Have we moved from traditional ways instructions are communicated? I am not painting a negative aspect of what I was watching but found it different to what I would usually see. Maybe I haven’t noticed this in the past. I caught this buy timing of where the cameras were pointing at a particular moment. Thumbs up if this is the way to go.
Tom de Koning barely had a touch in the first half.
After half time: Tom de Koning was far more effective. he got the ball, he got his hand on the ball and his goal was a miracle.
TDK doesn't look like a key forward and neither does Pitto but both have different attributes to offer as on-ball ruckmen.
Might be too late this season but, with TDK's mobility, I would like to see him tried in different roles instead of being ineffective as a key forward. I reckon he could contribute as a tall defender (allowing Weiters to play at CHB) or provide interesting match up options as HFF or as winger.
Is Bont even getable?
Not sure, but let's start with the money we save on Gresham, improved cash position with McGovern's reduced contract, and go from there. That's about $600-700k, and we can offload a couple of others to bring that to over $1Million. Not sure about draft / trade currency......
TDK doesn't look like a key forward and neither does Pitto but both have different attributes to offer as on-ball ruckmen.
Might be too late this season but, with TDK's mobility, I would like to see him tried in different roles instead of being ineffective as a key forward. I reckon he could contribute as a tall defender (allowing Weiters to play at CHB) or provide interesting match up options as HFF or as winger.
I could be wrong but perhaps its yet another role he is asked to play which is a sacrificial one for the team. He may be there resting but taking a good defender whilst either creating space for Charlie or getting to the smalls. Liked Tom's bullocking yesterday, imposed him on a number of occasions. An example was that goal from the stoppage which whilst lucky was intentional.
Not sure, but let's start with the money we save on Gresham, improved cash position with McGovern's reduced contract, and go from there. That's about $600-700k, and we can offload a couple of others to bring that to over $1Million. Not sure about draft / trade currency......
Surely there is no way he walks away on the Dogs, apart from being the skipper, he is too loyal I reckon. In any case, he is contracted for 2024 so a trade would have to me massive.
Surely there is no way he walks away on the Dogs, apart from being the skipper, he is too loyal I reckon. In any case, he is contracted for 2024 so a trade would have to me massive.
I’d be properly shocked if he ever left the Dogs. He is royalty there.
Some really good assessments already - especially from CRASH.
I was one of those who turned off in disgust at half time - first time I’ve ever done that in over 40 years. And not before firing off some keyboard warrior comments in other forums bagging our own. I was w-w-wrong.
Have watched the second half on replay. Definitely best win of the year. I just can’t stand St Kilda - got more joy from yesterday than from last week.
Am also perplexed by players receiving instructions on the phone when Voss is sitting right next to them. Is this is a newly implemented process? If so, keep doing!
Got out of my sick bed to watch this game and it cheered me up no end! Fingerbiting and frustrating for 3 quarters, what a treat it ended up being. We showed the steel and determination we've all been craving for many a long year. I was definitely anxious about the inclusion of Dow and Fisher but both of them made good contributions, especially Dow with his goal. I noticed he was part of the post match interview with Crippa who gave him a big wrap. Got the feeling Dow could hardly believe it.
My optimism grows! 😎
Thought it was a very even team performance, probably Newman and Weiters were the standouts.
I thought Charlie was spectacular in the first quarter, best field kick of any AFL tall going around at the moment!
Not so sure on this 'evenness' Spotted One. It did come, but took something special to make it happen.
The first half was anything but an 'even' contribution. Weiters commented after the game that our first half was "...flat with our efforts..." We had plenty of blokes 'flat' in the first half with the predictable symptoms: mistakes in disposal and decision making. Have no doubts we could easily have fallen back into previous bad habits against the Aints, an all too familiar scenario. However, and proof of our meaningful progress...
Leadership.
Our leaders really stood up and showed the way. Newman, Docherty, Cripps, Acres & Weiters were excellent examples of true leadership in the 2nd half. Bona fide progress. And TDK's goal from nothing early in the 3rd was also a great tonic; spark. Lifted and gave optimism to his team mates. Our leaders showed the way on how to play 'our way.'
Not quite sure I understand the negativity around that win, or the first half in particular. St Kilda's pressure was off the charts. Ross Lyon teams are never easy to beat, never easy to score against. They've been in the top 8 since early in the year for a reason. That was a super win IMO.
I feel so safe when Docherty has the ball in his hands.
He is almost Doull like.
The new Iceman. (Bruce's other nickname, since the flying Doormat doesn't quite fit Doc)
Not quite sure I understand the negativity around that win, or the first half in particular. St Kilda's pressure was off the charts. Ross Lyon teams are never easy to beat, never easy to score against. They've been in the top 8 since early in the year for a reason. That was a super win IMO.
We are missing a third of our regular starters. Some people were questioning our depth early in the year but I think we have proven we have more depth than any side in the comp. Take the equivalent players of Cerra, Walsh, Z. Williams, Kennedy, McKay, McGovern and Silvagni out of any side and they might beat West Coast but that would be it.
St.Kilda strikes me as a team that really believed they can beat Carlton. The formula is simple. Apply pressure and wait for Carlton to fold. This has been Plan A for playing Carlton for a while. St.Kilda came out and applied pressure and Carlton gave up three goals to midfield errors, Dow, Fisher and Docherty, missed a couple of goals we should have kicked, Cottrall, and basically kicked long bombs to a two on one situation when going forward. However we didn't fold and we kept persisting and started using our spare in the midfield to attack through. Goals by Motlop, Dow, Owies and two by Acres came about because St.Kilda had two players on Curnow and we had a player spare elsewhere. The question for other teams is what are they going to do when Plan A against Carlton doesn't work.
Others on this site are always bemoaning our depth and, always wanting to sack everyone and are quick to deride our players. We had seven or eight players unavailable who would be considered strongly for our best twenty-three yet we are playing the best football the club has played for over twenty years. Dow and Fisher were amongst the best. Winners win because they win. Losers lose because they lose. Carlton is starting to become a winner's team again at last.
We are missing a third of our regular starters. Some people were questioning our depth early in the year but I think we have proven we have more depth than any side in the comp. Take the equivalent players of Cerra, Walsh, Z. Williams, Kennedy, McKay, McGovern and Silvagni out of any side and they might beat West Coast but that would be it.
Yes, I generally agree.
Huge win given Saints were 5th on the ladder and always make it hard for us, and we were missing arguably 6 players from our best 22....almost as good and as important as last week against the Pies.
Newman was superb again and his form this season has been fantastic.
Acres continues to impress. I commented at the start of the season that he would be a big recruit for us and give us plenty of improvement. Some knocks on his kicking from time to time but yesterday he was one of the best in the first half when not much was going right and kept it up in the second half. He was getting the ball at every positon on the ground and the bigger body helps out without the likes of Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra not out there. The running goal to seal it was a brilliant individual effort.
Dow....his first half was riddled with the same panic disposals and dumb footy moments but to his credit, he stuck at it and was one of the reasons we lifted in the second half. Earned his spot.
Fisher...certainly his best game this year and one of the best he's played for us IMO. Like Acres, was good in the first half when we weren't playing that well.
TDK/Pitto were both non-existent in the first half but both lifted after half time. Marshall makes a habit of starring against us.
Great to win without a bag from Charlie too. We might need to get creative up forward next week against Melbourne as May and Lever will be double teaming Charlie from the opening bounce.
We are missing a third of our regular starters. Some people were questioning our depth early in the year but I think we have proven we have more depth than any side in the comp. Take the equivalent players of Cerra, Walsh, Z. Williams, Kennedy, McKay, McGovern and Silvagni out of any side and they might beat West Coast but that would be it.
Spot On...and likely take Kempy out of the team now as well. It's getting beyond a pale.
Not quite sure I understand the negativity around that win, or the first half in particular. St Kilda's pressure was off the charts. Ross Lyon teams are never easy to beat, never easy to score against. They've been in the top 8 since early in the year for a reason. That was a super win IMO.
I think a lot of concern around the first half was related to our inability to handle the pressure that St Kilda brought.
It was error riddled.
Handballs to players under pressure, poor execution, miskicks, indecision... and we really weren't bringing our own pressure which has been a feature of our wins.
Lyon's planning was pretty good, just as an example, he was able to quote deatiled aspects of Curnow's season in his presser, so they sussed us out pretty thoroughly and his troops did the job pretty well for a half. Most things were working for them.
But it wasn't sustainable, and by the end of the game the St kilda players were shattered, beaten by an overwhelming force.
At that stage, the poor disposal and indecision disappeared because our players now had time and freedom and we looked much more like the team of the last six weeks.
Saints gave it their best shot...and it wasn't good enough, even against a depleted Carlton side.
They may struggle to get back from there.
I don't think there's a lot of negativity about the win, and especially the second half...but the first half we didn't cope as well as we have, and were in a bit of strife handling their pressure.
Was a good goal and he looked quicker than I have seen him before, hopefully the club dont feel the need to waste money on Jade Gresham given the form of our small forwards in recent weeks.
I'm not convinced that our "interest" in Gresham is anything more than a media beat up. However, if that was an audition, I think that it's "no deal!"
Motlop has become a more complete footballer since his spell in the magoos. He is taking the game on and making the most of his opportunities as well as doing the hard work. He and Owies have different skillsets that, in combination, make life very difficult for the opposition defence.
You were right on Dow GTC...Voss was going to sub him off until that goal went through
didn’t like that honest insight from Voss thought it wasn’t needed. What did that achieve other then make the kid who has struggled to see any faith shown from Voss being started as a sub countless times feel like he is still very much on the outer. He even cracked the joke they would rip the stands down if we subbed him so he couldn’t do it.
I would have preferred Voss to use that game to generate as much confidence for Dow from it as possible with no negatives but instead now feels like not much has changed.
Obvious Voss is still not a fan and Dow will be delisted at seasons end which as a depth mid on min contract I would be happy to retain him but don’t see it happening.
I think a lot of concern around the first half was related to our inability to handle the pressure that St Kilda brought.
It was error riddled.
Handballs to players under pressure, poor execution, miskicks, indecision... and we really weren't bring our own pressure which has been a feature of our wins.
Lyon's planning was pretty good, just as an example, he was able to quote deatiled aspects of Curnow's season in his presser, so they sussed us out pretty thoroughly and his troops did the job pretty well for a half. Most things were working for them.
But it wasn't sustainable, and by the end of the game the St kilda players were shattered, beaten by an overwhelming force.
At that stage, the poor disposal and indecision disappeared because our players now had time and freedom and we looked much more like the team of the last six weeks.
Saints gave it their best shot...and it wasn't good enough, even against a depleted Carlton side.
They may struggle to get back from there.
I don't think there's a lot of negativity about the win, and especially the second half...but the first half we didn't cope as well as we have, and were in a bit of strife handling their pressure.
St Kilda's pressure in the first half was manic, as several of our players commented. However, it was very pleasing that our players had confidence in their ability to overcome the Saints.
While Charlie was kept to one goal, his ability to win contests up the ground and hit targets inside 50 was vital. I guess that's the role many folk thought he'd play. It's also what makes the Charlie/Harry combination so difficult to combat. They're both more than capable of playing up the ground or out of the goal square.
Pity we can't make top 4. If we could, we would be some massive flag chance.
St Kilda were pretty good in the first half and like others I was thinking here we go again - should I stop watching now and do something useful? We were OK, but entries into 50 were ordinary and they got a few easy goals.
We got smarter after half time and worked harder, which paid off. St Kilda got tired, it seemed.
Commentators were pumping up Fish in the first quarter, made note of how quiet he was in the 2nd and treated him normally after that.
Players would be speaking to the line coaches on the eau de cologne, but it does look odd particularly with Vossy next to them.
Dow is pretty strong at the footy and can get it - hopefully he and his teammates get confidence out of that. Rapt for him kicking that goal.
Charlie was obviously quiet, but still managed to do some very good things. Plenty of contributors this week. Be interesting if Boyd comes straight back in.
Commentary was OK when BT wasn't involved, when he was it went downhill quickly. (As an aside, I was gardening and listening to SEN for Nth v Melb game - pleasanly surprised with no hyperbole - they were actually calling the game - we could tell what was happening, so well done!)
Commentary was OK when BT wasn't involved, when he was it went downhill quickly.
Agreed - although BT is less annoying when you turn the volume down.
Wish he would give up trying to give 'expert commentary' on which way the ball will float or where the kicker should aim when kicking for goal - especially when playing under the roof - more often than not, I am content when their players miss and ours kick it in the right general direction.
AFL media
Great to see Acres in the top 10 👏🏼
Dow starring in the 9 things learned👏🏼
Well deserved. Take a bow.
I'm still adjusting to this Carlton positive media gig... I like it
Acres continues to impress. I commented at the start of the season that he would be a big recruit for us and give us plenty of improvement. Some knocks on his kicking from time to time but yesterday he was one of the best in the first half when not much was going right and kept it up in the second half. He was getting the ball at every position on the ground and the bigger body helps out without the likes of Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra not out there. The running goal to seal it was a brilliant individual effort. He works hard, covers a lot of ground and is solid overhead. I reckon most of his kicking woes occur because he is not very fast and is too easy to pressure when he tries to run with the ball.
Dow....his first half was riddled with the same panic disposals and dumb footy moments but to his credit, he stuck at it and was one of the reasons we lifted in the second half. Earned his spot. Agreed; but I think he would be more effective if he were to develop his hand-passing because he is not quick when trying to dispose of it and not strong enough to break clear of 'would-be' tacklers.
Fisher...certainly his best game this year and one of the best he's played for us IMO. Agreed; he was played in a position that allowed him to use his speed and to kick without too much pressure. Seems like the stint in the VFL might have been worthwhile but I will wait to see if he can reproduce the goods. Even SPS managed to turn in an impressive game (sometimes two) in similar circumstances before reverting to type.
I think a lot of concern around the first half was related to our inability to handle the pressure that St Kilda brought.
It was error riddled.
Handballs to players under pressure, poor execution, miskicks, indecision... and we really weren't bringing our own pressure which has been a feature of our wins.
Lyon's planning was pretty good, just as an example, he was able to quote deatiled aspects of Curnow's season in his presser, so they sussed us out pretty thoroughly and his troops did the job pretty well for a half. Most things were working for them.
But it wasn't sustainable, and by the end of the game the St kilda players were shattered, beaten by an overwhelming force.
At that stage, the poor disposal and indecision disappeared because our players now had time and freedom and we looked much more like the team of the last six weeks.
Saints gave it their best shot...and it wasn't good enough, even against a depleted Carlton side.
They may struggle to get back from there.
I don't think there's a lot of negativity about the win, and especially the second half...but the first half we didn't cope as well as we have, and were in a bit of strife handling their pressure.
Excellent summary of key issues
I listened to the call on AFL Nation or was it ABC?? Anyways our own McClure gave the expert comments from what I could tell.
It was nothing short of hilarious towards the end. His excitement and passion for the old dark navy blues was palpable.
When asked if player A could do task B, he said yes - on repeat. He referred to the time remaining with a mix of nervousness and hope. In the last few minutes a commentator asked another question. He virtually said "don't talk to me right now" As a fellow Bluebagger who has shared the long journey into the drought, it was a blast listening along. Probably sounded like rubbish to Saints fans.
Needless to say after the siren Mark pulled it back and gave a very balanced thoughtful player and team assessments.
That beats listening to the BT BS every day of the week.
I listened to the call on AFL Nation or was it ABC?? Anyways our own McClure gave the expert comments from what I could tell.
It was nothing short of hilarious towards the end. His excitement and passion for the old dark navy blues was palpable.
When asked if player A could do task B, he said yes - on repeat. He referred to the time remaining with a mix of nervousness and hope. In the last few minutes a commentator asked another question. He virtually said "don't talk to me right now" As a fellow Bluebagger who has shared the long journey into the drought, it was a blast listening along. Probably sounded like rubbish to Saints fans.
Needless to say after the siren Mark pulled it back and gave a very balanced thoughtful player and team assessments.
That beats listening to the BT BS every day of the week.
I find Sellers both honest and brutal. For someone who is long retired, he knows the game well and is able to strip it down to the basics and how well you need to do them
I find Sellers both honest and brutal. For someone who is long retired, he knows the game well and is able to strip it down to the basics and how well you need to do them
Indeed. He certainly knows football and isn't influenced by any of the nauseating boys club nonsense. He calls it as he sees it. Over the many years I've heard his brutal assessment of our list, and club more broadly. Sometimes made me cringe but he was never far from the mark, pardon the pun!
It was just so enjoyable to listen to his authentic navy blue view.
Go Blues
Mucher tougher circumstances yesterday, but I remain impressed with Motlop's progress, he didn't have it all his own way yet he didn't shy away from the contest.
Motlop in that form with that attitude, in combo with Owies, are miles ahead of the other options as far as I can tell.
I thought they were all pretty good in terms of attitude and effort, pretty sloppy early, but the heat was on and the pressure was high, I thought both sides burnt a lot of opportunities but we went up a gear in the 2nd half and it was the tell.
Mucher tougher circumstances yesterday, but I remain impressed with Motlop's progress, he didn't have it all his own way yet he didn't shy away from the contest.
Motlop in that form with that attitude, in combo with Owies, are miles ahead of the other options as far as I can tell.
I thought they were all pretty good in terms of attitude and effort, pretty sloppy early, but the heat was on and the pressure was high, I thought both sides burnt a lot of opportunities but we went up a gear in the 2nd half and it was the tell.
Said it before but Motlop has benefited with that run in the twos and some time in the middle, he hopefully develops into that Kossie Pickett style of player who can have a run onball in the seniors when we need a lift and some X factor, when he runs with the footy he really looks the part and I have liked his composure in the last few games.
I hope fans are starting to see why we need both Pitto and TDK.
How we manage them in the future will be critical to our success, if we'd only had one today Marshall wouldn't have just got the stats he probably would have got the chocolates as well! ;)
It's Pitto keeping up the physical pressure, that allows TDK to gain the momentum, no respite for the opposition.
I agree Hollands had a good game, but ignoring the result his direct opponent was probably the BoG.
We certainly do not NEED them both.
There is advantages to having them both.
However, this was never a question of need. It has always been a question of 'can we afford'.....to have them both in the team.
This has almost exclusively been with Harry and Charlie in the side at the same time....but partially with Jack as well....but he can play smaller so not quite the same thing.
The fact we don't have Harry available (and Jack) means we must play them both.
If we have both Harry and Jack available, playing both hurts our team balance.
The Carlton who has won 7 games in a row (it still feels weird saying that) has done so on the back of constant pressure (feels even weirder saying that!). It hasn't been because of a standout performance of a Cripps, or Charlie that has won us the game. It has been the 'team' that has won us the game.
This happens to largely coincide with Harry going down and us having to play 'smaller' by default.
Now whether you take Harry out, or 1 of the rucks out, the end result is basically the same. You are smaller, you can run, chase, tackle and pressure more. Its not saying Harry doesn't chase, but is he going to catch as many people as say Fogarty, Martin or Motlop who essentially take his place? No.
Ultimately, the question needs to be asked.
Are we better with 2 rucks?
or
Are we better with 2 key forwards?
My answer has always been the latter, and i think most will agree.
So then its a 'who plays backup ruck?'
That can come from whoever is in the team at the time.....my preference is for Jack because he is simply better at it than anyone else be that Young, Harry, Charlie, McGovern....but it doesn't have to be Jack.
didn’t like that honest insight from Voss thought it wasn’t needed. What did that achieve other then make the kid who has struggled to see any faith shown from Voss being started as a sub countless times feel like he is still very much on the outer. He even cracked the joke they would rip the stands down if we subbed him so he couldn’t do it.
I would have preferred Voss to use that game to generate as much confidence for Dow from it as possible with no negatives but instead now feels like not much has changed.
Obvious Voss is still not a fan and Dow will be delisted at seasons end which as a depth mid on min contract I would be happy to retain him but don’t see it happening.
Thats how I surmised it Shawny...I have been a fan of Dow since his U18 days and wondered why his numbers in the twos didnt equate to games in the seniors but the first half showed why Voss has been reluctant to play and trust him beyond being used as the sub. He kicked that goal in the second half which was good for him but you would probably expect that to be kicked by a senior player in that scenario nine times out of ten.
I think he makes a reasonable sub who can give you a burst of possessions and some run and carry but I still dont see him as a four quarter midfielder who I would trust vs decent opposition not to cost you a couple of goals through lack of composure.
He relies on weight of possession numbers rather than quality of possessions at the moment and that hasnt changed since his U18 days.
Pity we can't make top 4. If we could, we would be some massive flag chance.
Bulldogs 2016, finished 7th and rolled straight through.......I see playing a final interstate as the main obstacle but not insurmountable.
Thats how I surmised it Shawny...I have been a fan of Dow since his U18 days and wondered why his numbers in the twos didnt equate to games in the seniors but the first half showed why Voss has been reluctant to play and trust him beyond being used as the sub. He kicked that goal in the second half which was good for him but you would probably expect that to be kicked by a senior player in that scenario nine times out of ten.
I think he makes a reasonable sub who can give you a burst of possessions and some run and carry but I still dont see him as a four quarter midfielder who I would trust vs decent opposition not to cost you a couple of goals through lack of composure.
He relies on weight of possession numbers rather than quality of possessions at the moment and that hasnt changed since his U18 days.
By the same token though, it all depends on how Dow takes it.
It can be taken as...
- If i put in the effort, and get results, i will be rewarded with game time. This is fair, and i will ensure i get results so i get games.
or
- The coach doesn't like me, wants to drop me first chance he gets. Why bother.
Now both scenarios are equally as likely. If the player chooses the 'weak' path of option 2, then he probably isn't for us anyway.
Just a guess.
I wouldn't be surprised if a decision on Dow has already been made, quite amicably and honest, in fact.
A tough, frank conversation, that lets Dow know that if he wants to play at senior level he's behind a few already and opportunities will also be given to younger players ahead of him, so Carlton might not be the best option.
Dow's been told that he's free to look around, and while we're down a few players we'll give him some game time to show what he has to offer other clubs.
Works to the advantage of both player and club.
We get a good trade, and Dow finds some regular game time at a new home.
The only danger is we may have a few disgruntled supporters if he has a good end to the year.
But of course nothing is ever set in stone and minds can change...pretty much as the sub switch changed yesterday.
It's a funny one because we kind of got a glimpse of reasons he hasn't been picked in the first half...and yet he showed in the second half that it may be that he just needs some consistent game time to show his best.
He seems popular with players and a large percentage of supporters...you rarely see a response like the crowd gave him after his goal.
I have Dow in front of Kennedy at the moment. Due to his durability and is showing he is improving as he is maturing.
He is becoming very strong around the hips and gaining alot of confidence in his ability I dont think we have seen the ceiling in Dow.
I have Dow in front of Kennedy at the moment. Due to his durability and is showing he is improving as he is maturing.
He is becoming very strong around the hips and gaining alot of confidence in his ability I dont think we have seen the ceiling in Dow.
It wouldn't be difficult to be in front of Kennedy at the moment.
It wouldn't be difficult to be in front of Kennedy at the moment.
What I meant to say if both were fit and in form - I would go for Dow his burst of speed out of congestion is devastating at times.
Kennedy is the superior kick and more hard nosed the type of player Vossy adores. But Dow is more reliable and someone you can pick in your best 22 most weeks and reliably. IMO of course.
With Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy to return, I cant see Paddy staying in the 22 but he might be the ideal sub where he has proven handy in his many games in that role.
Got no doubt that Voss being old school and a hardnosed coalface mid by trade favors the Kennedy, Ed Curnow meat and veg type players...
Just a guess.
I wouldn't be surprised if a decision on Dow has already been made, quite amicably and honest, in fact.
A tough, frank conversation, that lets Dow know that if he wants to play at senior level he's behind a few already and opportunities will also be given to younger players ahead of him, so Carlton might not be the best option.
Dow's been told that he's free to look around, and while we're down a few players we'll give him some game time to show what he has to offer other clubs.
Works to the advantage of both player and club.
We get a good trade, and Dow finds some regular game time at a new home.
The only danger is we may have a few disgruntled supporters if he has a good end to the year.
But of course nothing is ever set in stone and minds can change...pretty much as the sub switch changed yesterday.
It's a funny one because we kind of got a glimpse of reasons he hasn't been picked in the first half...and yet he showed in the second half that it may be that he just needs some consistent game time to show his best.
He seems popular with players and a large percentage of supporters...you rarely see a response like the crowd gave him after his goal.
He was interviewed after the game and asked about him playing and finally getting a full game in the middle. He said something along the lines of...its a tough midfield, we've got a few injuries, so im just trying to make the most of my opportunities.
He said most of that without cracking a smile. Now he's not the most smiley type of guy at the best of times, and he may have been nervous because he hasn't done a lot of media, but to me it appeared like it was very bitter sweet for him.
He 'knows' he can contribute, but he knows that he can't get the chance here. So he'll take what he can get, but the cards are stamped.
With Cerra, Walsh and Kennedy to return, I cant see Paddy staying in the 22 but he might be the ideal sub where he has proven handy in his many games in that role.
Got no doubt that Voss being old school and a hardnosed coalface mid by trade favors the Kennedy, Ed Curnow meat and veg type players...
Kennedy is injured a little too much. This squad has serious durability issues.
Dow is hardly ever injured - if he goes that means we have to bring in a 17-18 year old as will be lacking depth.
Delighted with the durability of Hollands, Cowan, Binns and Lemmey in their first year. Especially Hollands that has been bashed from pillar to post and seems that he loves it.
What I meant to say if both were fit and in form - I would go for Dow his burst of speed out of congestion is devastating at times.
Kennedy is the superior kick and more hard nosed the type of player Vossy adores. But Dow is more reliable and someone you can pick in your best 22 most weeks and reliably. IMO of course.
Superior kick, better mark and more hard nosed. Bigger body too.
Dow more reliable??? How so?
Only thing he is more reliable with is turning the ball over on occasions where a senior player would not.
I like the kid, but being reliable in the VFL is one thing. At AFL he hasn't proved he can be reliable at all yet.
Paddy had an average day in the midfield by our standards but a good game relative to his form over the last couple of seasons. He’s an adequate replacement but well behind our first choice midfielders. You do have to acknowledge his determination to win a place in the 22 and his endeavour when he gets a run.
One of the hallmarks of Vossy’s coaching is his honesty and relationship with players. It was obvious that they were trying to get Paddy to the bench to be subbed and it would have been wrong for Vossy to deny that he was about to be subbed. Vossy’s comments were just right for the situation; reward for effort.
Kennedy is injured a little too much. This squad has serious durability issues.
Dow is hardly ever injured - if he goes that means we have to bring in a 17-18 year old as will be lacking depth.
Delighted with the durability of Hollands, Cowan, Binns and Lemmey in their first year. Especially Hollands that has been bashed from pillar to post and seems that he loves it.
Hollands has been good value but you have to look after your young slightly built players and thats why a grunt like Kennedy needs to be in the team along with Hewett imo to take some heat off those younger kids and absorb the punishment.
Hollands has been good value but you have to look after your young slightly built players and thats why a grunt like Kennedy needs to be in the team along with Hewett imo to take some heat off those younger kids and absorb the punishment.
If anything i think Hewitt is the weakest link in the Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy and Hewitt midfield rotations.
That doesn't mean he can't play, but that the others simply offer more.
If anything i think Hewitt is the weakest link in the Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy and Hewitt midfield rotations.
That doesn't mean he can't play, but that the others simply offer more.
Take your point as he offers less offensively than the others but I like it when both Kennedy and Hewett are in the team and in the latters case its because he can find the footy but at the same time lockdown on an opponent and in that regard I think that is a point of difference with our other mids and he has taken Ed Curnows role in the team.
While its less fashionable these days I'm pro having a couple of lockdown/taggers in the team....
A friend recently attended a match day luncheon and had a long conversation with an older Carlton player long retired - cannot remember who. The talk apparently turned to Dow and my friend was told he is quite happy playing VFL and has other things in his life he pursues so a big AFL career is not the be all and end all for him.
A friend recently attended a match day luncheon and had a long conversation with an older Carlton player long retired - cannot remember who. The talk apparently turned to Dow and my friend was told he is quite happy playing VFL and has other things in his life he pursues so a big AFL career is not the be all and end all for him.
If true, this is a red flag and can be deemed as a list clogger.
Everyone on an AFL list should NOT be happy playing VFL. They should be working their behinds off to play AFL, or give the spot to someone who is.
If true.
Whatever one thinks of Dow we need mature depth players. Like Young, Fish, SOS, Cincotta, Boyd
Just watched q1 replay. We had plenty of the ball and opportunities to score. We were definitely inaccurate and fumbled under the pressure. Owies, Crippa, Cottrell all had good looks. We also fluffed a couple of deep i50's by over-cooking it slightly. Unfortunately, resulting in TO's
Acres running, marking on the defensive goal-line and i50 was superb. Goal well deserved.
Gee Dow got triple tackled at times. Young Ollie bounced around by big boys like a ping-pong ball. Such a resilient young man.
Just watched q1 replay. We had plenty of the ball and opportunities to score. We were definitely inaccurate and fumbled under the pressure. Owies, Crippa, Cottrell all had good looks. We also fluffed a couple of deep i50's by over-cooking it slightly. Unfortunately, resulting in TO's
Acres running, marking on the defensive goal-line and i50 was superb. Goal well deserved.
Gee Dow got triple tackled at times. Young Ollie bounced around by big boys like a ping-pong ball. Such a resilient young man.
The most apt chant for Ollie Hollands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LODkVkpaVQA&ab_channel=LyssaFace
Q2.
Martin ran btw the arcs. Hb to Dow with a lovely weighted kick to end in Motlop goal. That's the Carlton way.
My gosh. Charlie got absolutely mauled q1/2. How umpires missed so many is a mystery. Does razor hate us,??
My gosh. Charlie got absolutely mauled q1/2. How umpires missed so many is a mystery. Does razor hate us,??
The bald umpire finally pays some of our missed frees 🙄
Definitely don't want Gresham.
I liked how Dow stood up in tackles and still got the ball out to one of ours. That game mentally will do him alot of good. He needs the feeling that he belongs. Once he has that he'll be alot better.
Indeed. He certainly knows football and isn't influenced by any of the nauseating boys club nonsense. He calls it as he sees it. Over the many years I've heard his brutal assessment of our list, and club more broadly. Sometimes made me cringe but he was never far from the mark, pardon the pun!
It was just so enjoyable to listen to his authentic navy blue view.
Go Blues
He is very good and tying together old school and modern footy concepts/strategies I've found.
Coaches' votes :
7 Blake Acres (CARL)
6 Zac Fisher (CARL)
5 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
5 Nicholas Newman (CARL)
3 Jacob Weitering (CARL)
2 Tom De Koning (CARL)
1 Callum Wilkie (STK)
1 Mason Wood (STK)
Surely there is no way he walks away on the Dogs, apart from being the skipper, he is too loyal I reckon. In any case, he is contracted for 2024 so a trade would have to me massive.
$1.5 Million as his first year sign on fee - five year deal $5.25 million which takes him to 33 yrs of age. Would he get us across the line for two premierships in that time, I think, yes he would. We would have to cough up at least two first rounders to the Dogs and probably sweeteners and pick swaps. You would first put it to his manager, then if he was open to it, table it with the Dogs. They are on the way down potentially with a new coach, and which of these clubs in most likely to grab two cups in his remaining playing career? That would probably now be Carlton.
Pity we can't make top 4. If we could, we would be some massive flag chance.
We can dream and hope things continue to fall into place for us and our rich vein of form continues, we can finish 5th and still be an almighty chance. Personally, even if we can sneak into the 8 I'll be happy.
This isn't really the place to be discussing it, but a definite no to Bontempelli. His class and skill is obvious, but we need to stay away from those types of deals. We've seen in recent times a greater spread of contributions from the er..... lesser lights, and we need more of that. We have enough mega deal players as it is.
didn’t like that honest insight from Voss thought it wasn’t needed. What did that achieve other then make the kid who has struggled to see any faith shown from Voss being started as a sub countless times feel like he is still very much on the outer. He even cracked the joke they would rip the stands down if we subbed him so he couldn’t do it.
I would have preferred Voss to use that game to generate as much confidence for Dow from it as possible with no negatives but instead now feels like not much has changed.
Obvious Voss is still not a fan and Dow will be delisted at seasons end which as a depth mid on min contract I would be happy to retain him but don’t see it happening.
Disagree.
Voss is acknowledging the public opinion.
Dow is almost at cult status now as “The bloke who’s knocked the door down to get a game”
I think Cripps pulling him into the presser after the game was a recognition of that and good leadership to give some limelight to a role player who at the end of the day had lifted his game and helped get us over the line.
If anything i think Hewitt is the weakest link in the Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy and Hewitt midfield rotations.
That doesn't mean he can't play, but that the others simply offer more.
I disagree. Hewett is an accomplished run with player who can nullify an opponent while still getting plenty of the ball.
Our midfielders have different but complementary skill sets and it’s their collective abilities that overcome the opposition midfield. That collective is not as effective without Hewett.
Can't see Cerra or Walsh being risked against the Suns if we secure a finals birth this week. Kennedy won't be available till finals if at all. Dow is very much required at the moment.
Word on the street is that Dow is happy playing for us whether thats AFL or VFL. Supposedly has other interests in life so may Footy is not the end all and be all for him.
Our midfielders have different but complementary skill sets and it’s their collective abilities that overcome the opposition midfield. That collective is not as effective without Hewett.
Yes, 100% agree, fans tend to be a bit myopic and anything other than 100% agreement with their perspective / assessment of what is good is a certain sign of weakness.
Even this week after the post match presser were Voss outlined how players compliment each other, we still have some arguing for one against the other, it's clear the fans don't get it, they want one pick and they think their pick is the only correct pick.
Fans seem to forget football is a team sport, the whole can be greater than the sum of the individuals provided the individuals are prepared to sacrifice to make those around them better. A great player who won't sacrifice can actually be detrimental to the team.
I disagree. Hewett is an accomplished run with player who can nullify an opponent while still getting plenty of the ball.
Our midfielders have different but complementary skill sets and it’s their collective abilities that overcome the opposition midfield. That collective is not as effective without Hewett.
You disagree, sure, but you only say what Hewitt offers.
I'm not disputing any of that.
However, if the game was there to be won, would your negating player win it for you?
I find it far more likely that Kennedy would be one to....
Get a clearance.
Take a strong contested grab.
Kick a goal.
Again, nothing against Hewitt, i like him, but i think Kennedy offers more. Very strong at the contest, great hands and kick at goal for his size. I've said it before, but i'd like to see him used in a medium forward role in a similar fashion to Silvagni. He can lead, mark and kick a goal, plus he's good on the ground.
$1.5 Million as his first year sign on fee - five year deal $5.25 million which takes him to 33 yrs of age. Would he get us across the line for two premierships in that time, I think, yes he would. We would have to cough up at least two first rounders to the Dogs and probably sweeteners and pick swaps. You would first put it to his manager, then if he was open to it, table it with the Dogs. They are on the way down potentially with a new coach, and which of these clubs in most likely to grab two cups in his remaining playing career? That would probably now be Carlton.
They would never trade Bont and he wouldnt leave the Whitten oval, he is rusted on there as a legend and probably their greatest player along with Teddy Whitten sr.
Then WTF are we chasing Gresham on serious coin? No more massive deals for less than top shelf players, we've carried such types for a long time already.
I was warming to picking up Gresham, but certainly not on big coin and quite frankly, he's not durable and he's another who doesn't do enough often enough.
Then WTF are we chasing Gresham on serious coin? No more massive deals for less than top shelf players, we've carried such types for a long time already.
I was warming to picking up Gresham, but certainly not on big coin and quite frankly, he's not durable and he's another who doesn't do enough often enough.
Are we chasing Gresham or is it just idle speculation by football commentators with time on their hands and audiences to titillate?
Are we chasing Gresham or is it just idle speculation by football commentators with time on their hands and audiences to titillate?
I think the commentators problem might be that with too much time on their hands they spend a bit too much time titillating themselves!
No way known is Gresham what we need - I think we have 4 or 5 on the list already who are not much different from him.
What we really need is either
(a) a running machine or
(b) a competent third option forward (if Jack goes out the door)
Nothing I saw of Gresham on Sunday impressed me. In fact didn't he miss a relatively easy shot on goal from directly in front? We already have Owies and Fogarty doing that for us. Do we really need another?
Nothing I saw of Gresham on Sunday impressed me. In fact didn't he miss a relatively easy shot on goal from directly in front? We already have Owies and Fogarty doing that for us. Do we really need another?
No.
I'm hoping it's media inaccuracies or old news. Perhaps we enquired before our forward line got into sync.
The more I think about it, the more it appears to me Gresham is the exact opposite to what we need. We require a high impact, game changing, small to mid height, lighting quick forward with excellent goal sense and kicking skills.
Gresham is none of those so we should be spending our time and money either finding one or drafting one with the potential to be that. He is barely best 23 for them, doesn't impact games, is slow, doesn't kick enough goals, he is Fisher on valium.
Nothing I saw of Gresham on Sunday impressed me. In fact didn't he miss a relatively easy shot on goal from directly in front? We already have Owies and Fogarty doing that for us. Do we really need another?
I don't disagree with you at all.
The only thing i'd say is I, and quite a few on here, thought the same when we played against Freo and Cerra before he came across to us. That turned out alright.
The only thing i'd say is I, and quite a few on here, thought the same when we played against Freo and Cerra before he came across to us. That turned out alright.
God yes. I was one of those. I also thought we'd paid too much for Saad! Still, can't see any sort of upside with Gresham. Anyway, probably won't happen so the point is probably moot
The only thing i'd say is I, and quite a few on here, thought the same when we played against Freo and Cerra before he came across to us. That turned out alright.
Bit of a difference.
Cerra was a gun at Freo, Gresham makes up the numbers at The Aints.
What has Gresham shown us that makes us confident he's going to be an upgrade, he has to be an upgrade on someone like Owies, SoJ, Motlop, etc. etc., because nobody will displace Harry and Charlie as our 1st choice forwards so it's 3rd wheel at best, unless of course there is a swap deal going on between us the Aints.
Bit of a difference.
Cerra was a gun at Freo, Gresham makes up the numbers at The Aints.
What has Gresham shown us that makes us confident he's going to be an upgrade, he has to be an upgrade on someone like Owies, SoJ, Motlop, etc. etc., because nobody will displace Harry and Charlie as our 1st choice forwards so it's 3rd wheel at best, unless of course there is a swap deal going on between us the Aints.
That is hindsight speaking.
Go have a look at the last 2 games we played against Freo when Cerra was in freo colours. Not many people wanted him.
Now all of a sudden he was a gun?
I don't disagree with you at all.
The only thing i'd say is I, and quite a few on here, thought the same when we played against Freo and Cerra before he came across to us. That turned out alright.
As I recall, many people were concerned that we'd pay overs for Cerra and lots complained that pick 6 was too much (I think I was among them). I don't think there was much opposition to adding Cerra to our list; he was already a genuine and developing talent.
I was among those who wasn't particularly pleased about adding Adam Saad to our list. I thought that he was a smaller, faster version of the Emu and always running himself into trouble. I'm more than happy that I was proved wrong about Saad but I do think that he fits into our team and gameplan(s) better than he did at Essendon.
Gresham's best footy is behind him, his disposal is poor, he doesn't provide much defensive pressure inside 50 and he hasn't been able to command a spot the saints 22. In fact, he would be a downgrade on all of the blokes who have played small forward for us this season.
I really can't see why we'd entertain adding him to our list apart from the fact that he's a free agent and won't cost us a draft pick ... unless we get compensation for a free agent leaving.
I'm convinced that there's nothing to this but media speculation.
re Cerra...
The biggest 'red flag' was his kicking. "couldn't hit the side of a barn"
I think he missed some sitters 30m in front of goal against us too.
Who needs a midfielder who can't kick?
We already have Cripps and Ed Curnow.
etc
Certainly were issues re pick 6, but that was about his kicking as much as anything
Now all of a sudden he was a gun?
What do games against us have to do with it?
Cerra was always a gun, any other claims a spurious. Fans write stuff to degrade player perceptions because they have personal reasons, they might think they are over-priced (Se McGovern), they fear for their favourite's spot on the list (See SoJ), they want somebody else (See Bont), but the opinions don't make the assessments realistic.
Reality is Melbourne club's were falling over themselves to get Cerra's signature, but he only wanted to come to Carlton and it was rightly reported as a coo!
Gresham's going to compete for the 3rd or 4th slot in F50.
As I recall, many people were concerned that we'd pay overs for Cerra and lots complained that pick 6 was too much (I think I was among them). I don't think there was much opposition to adding Cerra to our list; he was already a genuine and developing talent.
This is exactly correct, and I doubt anybody genuinely questioned Cerra's football ability other than in a futile attempt to try and talk down his price / cost!
Cerra and Walsh are same age - they will be bossing the midfield next 10 years,
Cerra and Walsh are same age - they will be bossing the midfield next 10 years,
I was also surprised to read how young Kemp was, he's been around so long I thought of him as mid 20s but he's in the AFL 22 under 22, still 2 or 3 years away from peak performance!
I was also surprised to read how young Kemp was, he's been around so long I thought of him as mid 20s but he's in the AFL 22 under 22, still 2 or 3 years away from peak performance!
He's done very well Kempy. Good thing is now after eight years of list development we can bring in kids in a performing team that has non negotiable standards. So going to the draft this year again makes perfect sense.
He's done very well Kempy. Good thing is now after eight years of list development we can bring in kids in a performing team that has non negotiable standards. So going to the draft this year again makes perfect sense.
Yep, as fans we all too often write players off well before their time, it's a flaw of being too invested in the team result ahead of player development.
btw., I also think it's a historical failing of our club, we've been too impatient in the past and let good players go simply because they didn't deliver fast enough, this is where I think our club's player development has failed. We had that "Carlton do not rebuild!" attitude and it hurt us badly!
Yep, as fans we all too often write players off well before their time, it's a flaw of being to invested in the team result ahead of player development.
btw., I also think it's a historical failing of our club, we've been too impatient in the past and let good players go simply because they didn't deliver fast enough, this is where I think our club's player development has failed. We had that "Carlton do not rebuild!" attitude and it hurt us badly!
🤣
I thought we hung on to list cloggers until they had zero value and then delisted them, I can’t keep up… 🙄
🤣
I thought we hung on to list cloggers until they had zero value and then delisted them, I can’t keep up… 🙄
Wind Blows!
(https://y.yarn.co/5e0cbc83-ed0f-40f2-a2d6-0eae1797d81b_text.gif)
I've even noticed
@LordLucifer softening in recent weeks, if
@spf gets on here and starts considering re-signing some players I'm going to leave the building!- ;D
🤣
I thought we hung on to list cloggers until they had zero value and then delisted them, I can’t keep up… 🙄
We do....and we usually re-sign players to overs deals who perform in the last year of their contract and then regret it later....
What do games against us have to do with it?
We are talking about Gresham after his game against us.
We talked about Cerra after his game against us.
This place kinda records those conversations so we can look it up.
If i said, go and look at what people said about Cerra after his game against North Melbourne, you wouldn't be able to find anything now would you.
For someone who can be so fastidious at times, you can clearly miss the obvious right in front of your face sometimes.