Carlton Supporters Club

We need so badly to win this. And we're on free-to-air TV. It bodes poorly.

Well it's about time we got one ..but it looks like the arseholes aren't going to let us enjoy it. >:(
Bugger them...we'll enjoy it anyway :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

We need so badly to win this. And we're on free-to-air TV. It bodes poorly.

And win it we did. Badly.
Should have banked it half way through the last but for the usual lack of composure in front of goals.

Then Newnes, who had a stinker up until then, embodied that very composure that was lacking. Weird.

Well it's about time we got one ..but it looks like the arseholes aren't going to let us enjoy it. >:(
Bugger them...we'll enjoy it anyway :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

What they gonna take it off us? Good Luck with that.

Fark em all, thats for all the injustices we have copped in the ass, and there have been many.

i haven't watched it yet.

i gather the umpiring was as bad as in the Weagles game?

i haven't watched it yet.

i gather the umpiring was as bad as in the Weagles game?

The most appallingly umpired game of football ever.

What they gonna take it off us? Good Luck with that.

It's already started....
Wrong decisions.(the downfield)..wrong player took the kick etc.
Rather than highlighting the effort to fight back it will all be about the "questionable" finish
Compare that to the fuss made over the Robbie Gray kick.

But that's their problem...it's in the book

I take it all back newnes. You won’t see a better after siren kick then that.

And if they determine the free kick wasn’t there even better!! 

Fark em

The most appallingly umpired game of football ever.

Nowhere near as bad as the WC game.

Well it's about time we got one ..but it looks like the arseholes aren't going to let us enjoy it. >:(
Bugger them...we'll enjoy it anyway :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

Blood oath we are. Let's not forget 2 of Freo's 3 goals in the 1st quarter were from terrible, terrible free kicks. Technically we won 16.

I take it all back newnes. You won’t see a better after siren kick then that.

And if they determine the free kick wasn’t there even better!! 

Fark em

Even better if it were Collingwood or Essendon...lol.

I’m still in shock. What an unbelievable game. Horrible, ugly game, terrible skills by us mostly. Stuffed up umpiring in the early days and seemingly you can drop the ball when you’re tackled and that’s acceptable.

But make no mistake, we had that to lose by deplorable skills and missing teammates - craphouse games really by setterfield,Peterski-seton, Kennedy! Cripps played awful. Gibbo nowhere.

Newnes what a kick amazing!

I have to say, that is probably the worst 10 minutes of umpiring perhaps in the history of the AFL.

Both sides had the right to feel ripped off, it felt like three umpires in uncontrolled bum decision free fall. They made some horrible horrible mistakes, either outright errors or disgraceful non-decisions, then just chased the errors getting more chaotic and error prone as they went.

Nice to be on the end of Newnes kick, one that he probably should not have been taking, but that is about the only positive to come out of the last quarter of football. Excluding that is was crap disposal, fumbling, hospital hand-passes, panic stations, bad umpiring and straight out cheating.

Uber glad that smug Lobb was standing on the line to watch it sail over his head, what a piece of human detritus he is!

Blood oath we are. Let's not forget 2 of Freo's 3 goals in the 1st quarter were from terrible, terrible free kicks. Technically we won 16.

Was going to mention that. The taberner and Lobb free kicks were stinkers.

Still can't believe some slightly shonky umpiring actually went our way. Seems to never happen.

And after last week where we got reemed mercilessly by the umps for the entire game!

Pies could struggle to keep their spot in the 8.

“ The Blues finished up winning the disposals 220-212, clearances 34-26, tackles 52-46, contested possessions 118-106, free kicks 13-9 and scoring shots 15-11.”
 
We were by far the better team in the second half, Cripps stepped up and Murphy got more involved. (Has Spanner gone to bed?)

Remember a similar horrid, close win against Freo over there in 2016. Worst game ever. then we won 5 of our next 6.

Please let it happen again...lol.

I have an apology to make.

I was championing for Newnes recruitment a long time before it happened. My justification was he's a solid player who does his thing every week. He can be relied upon to win his position more often than not. He'll kick you a goal a game. But he will NOT win you the game.

I was wrong Newnes. You won us the game.  :D

We were by far the better team in the second half, Cripps stepped up and Murphy got more involved. (Has Spanner gone to bed?)

Trolls tend to P!$$ off when things don't go their way

Not sure if anyone else agrees but the 5 possessions that Honey had, makes me think that he could be a player. Just moved like he belongs.

We got the late breaks and the points.

Murphy .... he got some clever link up handballs out to players running past and they helped, especially in Q3.  Curnow = BOG.  Teague?  You don't say much, do you?  

Club?  Do you actually have any LS clash jumpers? 

Good job guys.  What a difference one kick makes to one's outlook :)

The most appallingly umpired game of football ever.

Not nearly as bad as WC game. That ump #22 took the game out of our hands last week.

Aside 2 frees i50 in first half, and Conca's deliberate over the boundary inside our 50, umpiring reasonable I thought.

Really like Cottrell's run and pace.   Reminds me of Phil Maylin with the buzz cut and running style.

When is the last time we have trailed all game (ie never led) and won a game with a kick after the siren?

Not nearly as bad as WC game. That ump #22 took the game out of our hands last week.

Aside 2 frees i50 in first half, and Conca's deliberate over the boundary inside our 50, umpiring reasonable I thought.

The down field to Doc at the end was dodgy as, the wrong player took the kick, it should have been Gibbons as he was closest.

Really like Cottrell's run and pace.   Reminds me of Phil Maylin with the buzz cut and running style.

Some of his disposal was panicked and hit up opposition players but he certainly played a fair 2nd up game Prof.

Just watching the after match interviews and swear to God there is a homeless man asking questions!

When is the last time we have trailed all game (ie never led) and won a game with a kick after the siren?

I think we kicked the first point (very minor point, I know)

Really like Cottrell's run and pace.   Reminds me of Phil Maylin with the buzz cut and running style.

Agree. Cotterell loved that left foot snap under pressure in the wet. That was class.

Makes me sad that we lost SOS!

Not nearly as bad as WC game. That ump #22 took the game out of our hands last week.

Aside 2 frees i50 in first half, and Conca's deliberate over the boundary inside our 50, umpiring reasonable I thought.

That was 1 umpire favoring 1 team, tonight all 3 were stinking it up, and both teams “benefitted”

“ The Blues finished up winning the disposals 220-212, clearances 34-26, tackles 52-46, contested possessions 118-106, free kicks 13-9 and scoring shots 15-11.”
 
We were by far the better team in the second half, Cripps stepped up and Murphy got more involved. (Has Spanner gone to bed?)

Frees
14 v 16 on afl site
We won CP, clearances, i50 efficiency, and tackles 66 v 68.

They beat us on the outside, especially first half. 2 dubious goals from frees also gave them advantage to long break. I thought we fought back well under the conditions. By no means good ball use, and a load of luck at the end.

Regardless, sensational kick from Newnes and we scrapped out a win. EOS 🥳

Just watching the after match interviews and swear to God there is a homeless man asking questions!

Nah. He's been around for a while. Maybe he's from Margaret River 😉

Umpiring was nowhere near as bad or as game changing as the WC game. Will be hard to get a repeat performance like that. We were the better team on the night. They played well in the 1st but after that we dominated. should have won comfortably but 1. We kept  blowing our chances and 2. The Freo backline was outstanding for the whole game.

Matthew Cottrell had a great second game. Disposals: 14 Marks: 2 Clearances: 3 Goals: 1

Covered the ground well and looked confident.

That was 1 umpire favoring 1 team, tonight all 3 were stinking it up, and both teams “benefitted”

Fair call. Sometimes all you hope for is that it's even, albeit evenly spread bad decisions 😉

The old ‘hub’ would be a good place to
be tonight.

Nah. He's been around for a while. Maybe he's from Margaret River 😉

Geezus, journos obviously aren't held to massive hygiene standards out west. Looks like he needs a good wash.

Matthew Cottrell had a great second game. Disposals: 14 Marks: 2 Clearances: 3 Goals: 1

Covered the ground well and looked confident.

That's a very good effort. Add to that a ripper goal celebration.

I thought Honey was ok, and young TDK played very well against a much bigger emerging ruckman.

Ed had a breakout game 🤣
Seriously though, he's been very good these last 2 years.

We were by far the better team in the second half, Cripps stepped up and Murphy got more involved. (Has Spanner gone to bed?)

Really? What was his contribution? Jesus, we win a game with no help from the "human impediment to winning", and you make out like he kicked the winning goal.

Did you even watch the game? LOL

Matthew Cottrell had a great second game. Disposals: 14 Marks: 2 Clearances: 3 Goals: 1

Covered the ground well and looked confident.

I think he may be a little crazy. Kinda reminds me of Robbo is some ways.

Doesn’t take a backward step and happily will hurt an opponent whenever he can. We don’t have any midfielder who is like him in that regard.

Disposal is a bit hit or miss but his toughness around the contest is a very important quality imo.

Really like Cottrell's run and pace.   Reminds me of Phil Maylin with the buzz cut and running style.

I thought he looked like a dead ringer for Mitch Robinson during his celebration.

Really? What was his contribution? Jesus, we win a game with no help from the "human impediment to winning", and you make out like he kicked the winning goal.

Did you even watch the game? LOL

Yawn.

Yawn.

Yes, quite

Really? What was his contribution? Jesus, we win a game with no help from the "human impediment to winning", and you make out like he kicked the winning goal.

Did you even watch the game? LOL

What positives do you see? Or do you just sweat out a game wondering what Murphy will provide? Sad if so, other guys to watch and get excited about the CFC About.

What positives do you see? Or do you just sweat out a game wondering what Murphy will provide? Sad if so, other guys to watch and get excited about the CFC About.

Nah, just sick of people making excuses for the newly named "human impediment to winning".

Every time some one posts something positive he does, I'll be there as the counter weight to make sure both sides of the story are told.

We're not going to have a Trump type narrative concerning the HITW.

Really? What was his contribution? Jesus, we win a game with no help from the "human impediment to winning", and you make out like he kicked the winning goal.

Did you even watch the game? LOL

Yep, sure did,
And so did the Herald Sun:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Murphy, Setterfield, Cottrell

And the Carlton Website:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Murphy, Setterfield

And The Age:
Carlton: Walsh, Cripps, E Curnow, Casboult, Murphy, Newnes

And the AFL Website:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Murphy, Setterfield

And Spanner:
Cripps is becoming a liability. Someone's been reading their own press me thinks. (Contribution?  24 disposals, 20 contested, 6 tackles, 4 centre clearances)
The power house Murphy led midfield is getting annihilated by a couple of 50 gamers. (Brayshaw, Cerra, Munday, Serong and Ffyfe all had less disposals, less centre clearances and only Ffyfe had more contested possessions. Collectively they had 1 centre clearances between them!!)
Nice work Marc, nice work (Contribution?  20 disposals, 13 contested, 3 tackles, 2 centre clearances)

Now that's where the LOL belongs!!! (BTW, sorry to disappoint you, but WE WON!!)

Thought Curnow played a very good game and kept us in the game when it was tough early.Cottrell is so much like a young Robbo in looks and played another handy game.
Cripps improved as the game went on and we got helped by Longmuir taking Fyfe out of the midfield after he was slaughtering us.. really strange move and Freo lost their way after that. Walsh was very good in the 2nd half and played a mature game. TDK  soldiered on vs some tough opposition and Honey looked the part all be it briefly.
Newnes had played a shocker but delivered when it mattered..
Yep Freo got robbed at the end but luck usually comes and goes and they will get their turn of luck like we did somewhere down the track... Would love to beat Collingwood with the last kick, feel it was wasted on rubbish like Freo, they really really are a hack team. If D'Arcy praised Luke Ryan one more time the TV was going out the window, commentary was just rubbish..

This would be right...lol.

A for effort, and Newnes may well be a hero, but that was an appalling game of football. Appalling commentary, appalling umpiring and appalling skills from both teams. As bad as the R4 2019 game last year, except we miraculously managed to be on right side of the ledger this time.

Bank the 4 points, erase the game from the hard drive, and pray to God we never serve up that drivel again.

So glad I didn't watch it due to the poor umpiring again.
Watched the replay and I am a bit concerned about McKay and his percieved casualness.
That last shot on goal by Harry, he showed no composure, no will to take control. He didn't even look at the goals.
I want our FF to take control and demand the ball, want to kick these types of goals.
He has no routine, needs to talk to Fev.
1 or 2 goal a game player he shouldn't be. It needs to be 3 or 4 +.
Awesome kick by Newnes but I also love the never say die attitude Teague has got going.

Nah, just sick of people making excuses for the newly named "human impediment to winning".

Every time some one posts something positive he does, I'll be there as the counter weight to make sure both sides of the story are told.

We're not going to have a Trump type narrative concerning the HITW.

Credit to you Spanner, posting in the post match thread after a win.

Yep, sure did,
And so did the Herald Sun:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Murphy, Setterfield, Cottrell

And the Carlton Website:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Murphy, Setterfield

And The Age:
Carlton: Walsh, Cripps, E Curnow, Casboult, Murphy, Newnes

And the AFL Website:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Murphy, Setterfield

And Spanner:
Cripps is becoming a liability. Someone's been reading their own press me thinks. (Contribution?  24 disposals, 20 contested, 6 tackles, 4 centre clearances)
The power house Murphy led midfield is getting annihilated by a couple of 50 gamers. (Brayshaw, Cerra, Munday, Serong and Ffyfe all had less disposals, less centre clearances and only Ffyfe had more contested possessions. Collectively they had 1 centre clearances between them!!)
Nice work Marc, nice work (Contribution?  20 23 disposals, 13 contested, 3 tackles, 2 centre clearances)

Now that's where the LOL belongs!!! (BTW, sorry to disappoint you, but WE WON!!)

EFA

Official AFL rule, not the fake wikpedia one social media have been quoting saying the ball should have gone back.

15.12 FREE KICKS AFTER DISPOSAL
(a) Subject to Law 15.12(b), a Free Kick will be paid against a player who
makes Prohibited Contact to a Player who has disposed of the football
or Prohibited Contact to a Player who is Shepherding a Player who has
disposed of the football. The Free Kick shall be taken by the nearest Player
to the location where the football touches the ground, or crosses the
Boundary Line, as the case may be. If taking the Free Kick at this location
will penalise the Team awarded the Free Kick, the Free Kick shall be taken
by the Player against whom and at the location where Prohibited Contact
was made.
(b) If a field Umpire is satisfied that a Player tackles, holds (either the body
or playing uniform) or makes high contact against an opposition Player
who has disposed of the football for the purpose of preventing that Player
from taking part in the next act of play, if it is a greater penalty than would
otherwise be provided by Law 15.12(a), the field Umpire shall award a free
kick and a Fifty- Metre Penalty to that Player’s team.

Murphy had a terrible game, let's not re-write history because of the big win.

Thought Curnow played a very good game and kept us in the game when it was tough early.Cottrell is so much like a young Robbo in looks and played another handy game.
Cripps improved as the game went on and we got helped by Longmuir taking Fyfe out of the midfield after he was slaughtering us.. really strange move and Freo lost their way after that. Walsh was very good in the 2nd half and played a mature game. TDK  soldiered on vs some tough opposition and Honey looked the part all be it briefly.
Newnes had played a shocker but delivered when it mattered..
Yep Freo got robbed at the end but luck usually comes and goes and they will get their turn of luck like we did somewhere down the track... Would love to beat Collingwood with the last kick, feel it was wasted on rubbish like Freo, they really really are a hack team. If D'Arcy praised Luke Ryan one more time the TV was going out the window, commentary was just rubbish..

And can just add, 8 tackles from Newnes, most on the night. I would love to know know how many times they marked it from our kicks, ie intercept marks.
Josh Kay posted on twitter its our first post siren win since Sticks in 1987.

And can just add, 8 tackles from Newnes, most on the night. I would love to know know how many times they marked it from our kicks, ie intercept marks.
Josh Kay posted on twitter its our first post siren win since Sticks in 1987.

My first experience. Got told off by the wife for nearly waking the kids up.

Murphy had a terrible game, let's not re-write history because of the big win.

Terrible? Harsh, very harsh.

My first experience. Got told off by the wife for nearly waking the kids up.

Newnes or Sticks?

Newnes or Sticks?

Newnes.

Terrible? Harsh, very harsh.

I take no joy in giving to him. If he wasn't who he was we would have delisted him already.

Was fev in Adelaide after the siren?

Murphy has survived a few coaches, a few presidents, a few CEO's, 8000 team mates who have come and gone, some stinging albeit short lived criticism from Mathieson, and other things I've no doubt forgotten. And he's been offered a 1 year extension for next season. Whether he's got to this point as a result of rank incompetence, or because he deserves it, is for others to decide.

The only player last night who really showed something good for more than 30 seconds was Fyfe IMO. All other players, and coaches and umpires, should donate their pay checks to charity.

Was fev in Adelaide after the siren?

No

Was fev in Adelaide after the siren?

with 90 seconds to go.

Such a beautiful, classic kick by Newnes, as was Fev’s. Nothing fancy schmancy-reverse boomerang-check side-running away from goal-about it.

Harry McKay, please take note.

No

Must've been close.

Fev against Hawthorn was......but he missed.
Sticks against Bombers in '93 (?) was.....but he missed.

We've played 11 games.
6 games have been decided by 7 points or less for us this season.
We are now 4-2 in those games.

We've played 11 games.
6 games have been decided by 7 points or less for us this season.
We are now 4-2 in those games.

So much better than "honorable losses". We've written the book about those.

Re:Murphy... I didn't notice him for good or bad when I saw his stats I was surprised he had 20 disposals.

Re:Murphy... I didn't notice him for good or bad when I saw his stats I was surprised he had 20 disposals.

At 3 quarter time esterdat I posted that Walsh and Murphy had 18 disposals. Walsh had 115 supercoach, Murphy 53.

Some extreme opinions on Murphy (both ways).
He's still accumulating the ball at a good rate.
His body (upper body in particular)  is probably pretty close to being a 'shot unit'
I blame that in a large part to some of the pathetic support he received from team-mates in his younger years.
My concerns with Murphy at the moment is his disposal (47% last night), especially by foot.
Some of his turnovers can be costly.
But last night he wasn't Robinson Crusoe.
Look at the Disposal Efficiency for everyone last night from the AFL stat site .... It's very poor (sure, weather was a factor)



https://www.afl.com.au/matches/2823#player-stats
(click on advanced stats to get the DEf)

(Edit-Probably easier to find here.
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10264&advv=Y

with 90 seconds to go.

Such a beautiful, classic kick by Newnes, as was Fev’s. Nothing fancy schmancy-reverse boomerang-check side-running away from goal-about it.

Harry McKay, please take note.

Newnes really attacked that kick, the way he ran in he meant business, you rode it all the way and it just kept going.
Krud being president of the Newnes fan club must have watched it 100 times, better kick than Grays imo and while I was OK with recruiting Newnes and said he would be handy I never thought he would deliver a win like that so full credit to him.
Special moment when your teammates pile on top of you like that.. Cripps lifting Fisher showed that win meant a lot.

Well there's the argument in a nutshell.  You can't quantify "hurt factor", maybe DE approximates it.   If you get it,  to be effective you have to use it properly....moving to the the advantage of the team mate/team.

BTW, our overall DE was horrible,  a damning stat that says plenty.

Murphy had a terrible game, let's not re-write history because of the big win.

Agree.

He was involved in a couple of chains which saw us on the back foot including that holding the ball decision that led to freo extending their lead back out to 14 points.

Murphy did some good things but some really bad things too.  The fact he was in the bests says more about the rest of the team than it did Murphy.  Walsh did some really important stuff when it counted.

Well there's the argument in a nutshell.  You can't quantify "hurt factor", maybe DE approximates it.   If you get it,  to be effective you have to use it properly....moving to the the advantage of the team mate/team.

My dad drilled it in to me that the best players don’t waste the ball. And that’s why I’d be ok if Fyffe got the 3 Brownlow votes ahead of, say, Curnow.

Re:DE.. in those conditions just get the ball moving forward. Ed Curnow had the right idea just get it and kick it our way.
Freo went handball happy at one stage and kept losing control of the ball.
Fyfe seemed a level above in those conditions but was sent forward, strange move imo. Terrible game to watch until the last kick and that was the only bit of disposal efficiency that mattered.

I like what Williamson could potentially be, but he's disappointing ATM. Attack on the contest hasn't been good enough and ball handling is hesitant and fumbly.

How long before Marchbank gets a run off half back?

I like what Williamson could potentially be, but he's disappointing ATM. Attack on the contest hasn't been good enough and ball handling is hesitant and fumbly.

How long before Marchbank gets a run off half back?

Struggled all season for touch and confidence, I'm a fan but it's hard to pump up his tires the way he is fumbling and looking shaky. Said it before he looks thinner and that back injury recovery looks like he lost weight as part of the rehab and he gets pushed off the ball and outbodied.
Re:Marchbank.. more of a marking intercept type and his ability to stay on the park is a worry so I'm not sure he will be much better than Williamson given his history.
Like to see Williamson after another decent preseason and still think he can improve..

I thought the moment that Fyfe pinched the ball from Williamson was a telling moment and showed that his confidence is well down. You could see on replay Williamson catch sight of Fyfe in the corner of his eye a split second before taking full control of the ball. He panicked, fumbled and Fyfe just took it away from him. Having said that I still think he did some OK things and will come good if he can get some confidence back.

All things considered, I will take this. Winners are grinners and we won against adversity, with a large portion of our 'better'players in the stands, not on the field.
[1] The deliberate out of bounds was there. That idiot just tapped the ball towards the line. Free Kick in any game.

[2] Brayshaw crashes into Docherty. The commentators can complain to Satan if they wish, but that is a free. He was taken down after he kicked the ball. Free down the field.
Docherty was lucky as that kick of his was a shocker and went on the full.

End of story on that.

Some of the other frees, especially those given early in the game, were pretty dubious. The frees to Taberner and Lobb in particular were shockers. I could go through others.

Since we've been in Perth we've been up against it. We've played with generally hostile crowds. The weather has not helped us. We generally play better when it is drier, especially our indigenous players. In the old days Eddie was usually at his quietest in the rain. We have so many of our name players unavailable and were down our 2 better ruckmen.
This was our first TV game win in more than 2 years.

Accept it and move on. Time to learn from it before we play the Gold Coast.

i thought Willo has taken a few positive steps in the last few games...

The conditions were crapty last night and to a lesser extent against WCE.

No more fumbly than Doc quite frankly. Or Samo!

What a game.

So happy we got gifted a 50/50 free kick that went our way.  Wish the media would focus on the first two goals for Freo, they came from free kicks that definitely weren’t there.

I liked how we were pressured but kept going - the HTB against Levi was a shocking call too.

Fyfe is a fantastic player but couldn’t be everywhere thankfully.

Think that kick by Newnes was amazing - the best I’ve seen, considering he also had to move the cameraman and his leads out of the way - what the hell was that about? Surely they have a protocol for that, shouldn’t be up to the player.

I love Willo he has something about him, I believe he’ll improve - definitely has the skills.

Doch is very lucky we’re not scrutinising his crap kick At the end!

Some extreme opinions on Murphy (both ways).
He's still accumulating the ball at a good rate.
His body (upper body in particular)  is probably pretty close to being a 'shot unit'
I blame that in a large part to some of the pathetic support he received from team-mates in his younger years.
My concerns with Murphy at the moment is his disposal (47% last night), especially by foot.
Some of his turnovers can be costly.
But last night he wasn't Robinson Crusoe.
Look at the Disposal Efficiency for everyone last night from the AFL stat site .... It's very poor (sure, weather was a factor)



https://www.afl.com.au/matches/2823#player-stats
(click on advanced stats to get the DEf)

(Edit-Probably easier to find here.
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=10264&advv=Y

Lod's I think that is it personally, if Murphy is going to play on, his disposal has to be better than it is, he has to be that nice ball user, and deliver and hurt the opposition. There is no reason he cannot do that. Higgins would have hit targets last night and we probably would be a goal or two better for having him deliver the ball.

I'm sorry I don't get it. Easy enough for armchair riders to say that last free kick wasn't there, the game was horrible etc etc.  The same umpire gave two previous similar decisions both against us so the warning was there and luckily or otherwise for us we got one at that last moment. The Freo player made the mistake, not the ump.

Both sides played boundry line footy. In the few times we tried to break away in the third we messed it up that last kick into the forward line, horribly. It wasn't the night for that. There was just no space all night, scrambly kicks went half their usual distance. Something about that salt laden rain made for that, last time we played in the rain in QLD we killed it. We were the better team and we played well to win even if, to some/most, it looked ugly. It wasn't to me.

Yep, sure did,
And so did the Herald Sun:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Murphy, Setterfield, Cottrell

And the Carlton Website:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Murphy, Setterfield

And The Age:
Carlton: Walsh, Cripps, E Curnow, Casboult, Murphy, Newnes

And the AFL Website:
Carlton: Curnow, Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Murphy, Setterfield

And Spanner:
Cripps is becoming a liability. Someone's been reading their own press me thinks. (Contribution?  24 disposals, 20 contested, 6 tackles, 4 centre clearances)
The power house Murphy led midfield is getting annihilated by a couple of 50 gamers. (Brayshaw, Cerra, Munday, Serong and Ffyfe all had less disposals, less centre clearances and only Ffyfe had more contested possessions. Collectively they had 1 centre clearances between them!!)
Nice work Marc, nice work (Contribution?  20 disposals, 13 contested, 3 tackles, 2 centre clearances)

Now that's where the LOL belongs!!! (BTW, sorry to disappoint you, but WE WON!!)

And this my friends is the definition re-writing history. If the game of AFL was all about stats padding and cheap possessions like kicking sideways and backwards Marc would be the king amongst kings.

Sadly for Marc and you I suppose, is the game requires a little bit more fortitude and resilience when things get tough. Something your best friend Marc lacks all too often. Go back and watch the game without your stats sheet or your commentators bullsh!+ write ups that they do straight after the game, by going over those very stat sheets you rely on to mount your case.

It's farcical anyone can state that he had a good game. You're one of the very people who are taken in by this type propaganda. Have you ever had an original thought on your own, or are you solely at the mercy of trash stats and commentator write ups? Yeah, thought so... LOL!

Re:Murphy... I didn't notice him for good or bad when I saw his stats I was surprised he had 20 disposals.

23

Did Kennedy get injured?

Re:DE.. in those conditions just get the ball moving forward. Ed Curnow had the right idea just get it and kick it our way.
Freo went handball happy at one stage and kept losing control of the ball.
Fyfe seemed a level above in those conditions but was sent forward, strange move imo. Terrible game to watch until the last kick and that was the only bit of disposal efficiency that mattered.

You’re right EB, the conditions were very poor for most of the game and I imagine that Teague’s instructions would have been to gain territory with every disposal.  Most of our players were hacking the ball forward during periods of heavy rain and there were turnovers as a result.  That’s OK if we can then set up defensively and we were able to do that quite well most of the time. 

While it wasn’t a great spectacle, I still found it to be an entertaining game between two fairly evenly matched teams, even if inexplicable umpiring decisions (and non-decisions) gave Fremantle a leg up.  The down the ground free to Newnes was one occasion when an umpire got it right  :)

Despite the commentators drooling over Freo’s midfield, it was Curnow, Cripps, Murphy and Walsh that got on top and set up the win.  Plowman’s work on Fyffe was critical too.

Well there's the argument in a nutshell.  You can't quantify "hurt factor", maybe DE approximates it.   If you get it,  to be effective you have to use it properly....moving to the the advantage of the team mate/team.

BTW, our overall DE was horrible,  a damning stat that says plenty.

Horrible conditions, high pressure from the oppo (and umps).

Re:DE.. in those conditions just get the ball moving forward. Ed Curnow had the right idea just get it and kick it our way.
Freo went handball happy at one stage and kept losing control of the ball.
Fyfe seemed a level above in those conditions but was sent forward, strange move imo. Terrible game to watch until the last kick and that was the only bit of disposal efficiency that mattered.

Happy to win ugly/terrible. The fact we stayed in it and never ever gave up is HUGE for me.

Plowman’s work on Fyffe was critical too.

Absolutely. Plow gets a fair amount of criticism week in week out but yesterday he was very good and it went unnoticed. Good call DJC

i thought Willo has taken a few positive steps in the last few games...

The conditions were crapty last night and to a lesser extent against WCE.

No more fumbly than Doc quite frankly. Or Samo!

I agree, apart from when Fyfe stole the ball of him, I thought he ran hard and attacked the contest. Took some positive steps fwd.

I thought the moment that Fyfe pinched the ball from Williamson was a telling moment and showed that his confidence is well down. You could see on replay Williamson catch sight of Fyfe in the corner of his eye a split second before taking full control of the ball. He panicked, fumbled and Fyfe just took it away from him. Having said that I still think he did some OK things and will come good if he can get some confidence back.

Big strong dual Brownlow Medalist vs a kid, he'll learn from it.

Did Kennedy get injured?

Corky but will be right said Teague

deleted

How  was that ball Simmo took to the face that rebounded 40 mtrs or so? It shows how tough he is. I noticed he and Fyfe were having a long chat at the end of the game. Both are trojans and in a tough sport they are built and wired very similar.

I like what Williamson could potentially be, but he's disappointing ATM. Attack on the contest hasn't been good enough and ball handling is hesitant and fumbly.

I tend to agree.

I'm going to say something that will change the way people see Willo....and once read, you will not be able to unsee.

Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.

The haphazard run off HB, the awkward handballing the fumbling and selling blokes into trouble......

I hope i'm wrong, but i'm seeing a lot of similarities.

I tend to agree.
I'm going to say something that will change the way people see Willo....and once read, you will not be able to unsee.
Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.
The haphazard run off HB, the awkward handballing the fumbling and selling blokes into trouble......
I hope i'm wrong, but i'm seeing a lot of similarities.

I'm sorry Krudd, I respect your insights but I have to disagree on this one. Paul Bower was an absolute donkey. As bad a panic merchant as I've seen. Decision making in the heat of battle was putrid. He was a dead set curse. To put Willo in this class is terribly unfair. He is still in Good, bad and ugly mode but I really have confidence he is improving. Watch this space.

Just on Paul Bower, you simply didn't know what he was going to do - nobody did including him. All instinct and no thought. Just nerves took over I think and he scampered around the place in a panicked jig.

Our disposal. It's either horrible or brilliant as it was against Geelong and the Dogs. Bevo said our disposal efficiency into the F50 was off the chart against the Dogs, on a very wet night. Last night was on the horrible side.

Sometimes I'd rather they just kick a chaos ball into the F50 than just pick out a defender.

I don't think last night was the game to be measuring a players skill level, it was shizen conditions, with shizen umpiring conducted in shizen over-crowded zone style.

I suspect MBB and Spanner must have been umpiring. :D (Added for levity!)

Having watched the replay this morning sMurph was cooked at least twice by umpires maybe even more, but two times it was clear the umpire was behind sMurph with the ball in SMurph's possession but hidden from the umpire, and the umpire pegged him both times for incorrect disposal. It was just an outright guess from the umpire. The second time it looks like sMurph got a handball away that bounced off the tacklers chin and sMurph was penalised. This is professional sport with what amounts to rank amateur umpiring last night.

Then you see a Freo player pick up the pill side on to the umpire, try to take on the tackler and stone cold drop it when tackled and it's a ball up. Even worst was the Casboult holding the ball penalty, less than 20s later a Freo player did exactly the same thing and the other umpire allowed play to go on. It's turning AFL into a joke sport, more Mickey Mouse than Roller Derby or World Championship Wrestling, the comical making an attempt must surely be consigned to the clown alley! :o

I agree, apart from when Fyfe stole the ball of him, I thought he ran hard and attacked the contest. Took some positive steps fwd.

Willo had a couple of unmemorable games coming off his ankle injury. He's been building again since then imo. Slowly but surely. 

I think we also need to remember the toll on our young side from hubbing and travelling. WA, SA, and QLD sides have physical and mental advantage of being at home. Not an excuse but a fact that is likely to impact performance across time.

Whoever played on Walters needs a shout out 👏

For some reason we couldn't mark the ball. Freo were superior in that regard. Have a look what grippo they used 😉

Imagine Martin and Pittonet and Silvagni being available and in that side.  The kids did well

Big strong dual Brownlow Medalist vs a kid, he'll learn from it.

Gee, Fyfe gets an armchair ride from the umps....

Imagine Martin and Pittonet and Silvagni being available and in that side.  The kids did well

Martin makes us a 3-4 goal better side most weeks.

Imagine Martin and Pittonet and Silvagni being available and in that side.  The kids did well

Agree.

Did remind myself this is not our full strength team.

I tend to agree.

I'm going to say something that will change the way people see Willo....and once read, you will not be able to unsee.

Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.

The haphazard run off HB, the awkward handballing the fumbling and selling blokes into trouble......

I hope i'm wrong, but i'm seeing a lot of similarities.

I think the brain snaps from Jones and Plowman can have a knock on impact to the younger guys. That sort of stuff is contagious. It got Weitering for a while there.

For Liverpool supporters you look at what Van Dyk was able to do when he joined the club. It wasn't just his own game but the confidence / calmness he was able to give his teammates. Lovren was like Jones. Pretty good athlete but so panicky and he made everyone else around him panicky also.

That's where I see our backline now. We'll struggle to play finals with panic merchants in the backline.

I actually think Williamson will be ok once he's surrounded by a calmer more settled unit.

"I suspect MBB and Spanner must have been umpiring."
Heaven forbid LP, ripper thought though.

You’re right EB, the conditions were very poor for most of the game and I imagine that Teague’s instructions would have been to gain territory with every disposal.  Most of our players were hacking the ball forward during periods of heavy rain and there were turnovers as a result.  That’s OK if we can then set up defensively and we were able to do that quite well most of the time. 

While it wasn’t a great spectacle, I still found it to be an entertaining game between two fairly evenly matched teams, even if inexplicable umpiring decisions (and non-decisions) gave Fremantle a leg up.  The down the ground free to Newnes was one occasion when an umpire got it right  :)

Despite the commentators drooling over Freo’s midfield, it was Curnow, Cripps, Murphy and Walsh that got on top and set up the win.  Plowman’s work on Fyffe was critical too.

Darcy kept drooling over Luke Ryan to the point of being vomit material, ditto with Cerra......agree on our mids doing the hard yards better although Longmuir taking Fyfe out of the midfield and having him freeze down forward helped as well..

I tend to agree.

I'm going to say something that will change the way people see Willo....and once read, you will not be able to unsee.

Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.

The haphazard run off HB, the awkward handballing the fumbling and selling blokes into trouble......

I hope i'm wrong, but i'm seeing a lot of similarities.

Absolutely nothing like Paul Bower, I'll have no trouble unseeing it as I couldn't see it the first place.

Our disposal. It's either horrible or brilliant as it was against Geelong and the Dogs. Bevo said our disposal efficiency into the F50 was off the chart against the Dogs, on a very wet night. Last night was on the horrible side.

Sometimes I'd rather they just kick a chaos ball into the F50 than just pick out a defender.

It was insane how many times that occured.

I'm sorry Krudd, I respect your insights but I have to disagree on this one. Paul Bower was an absolute donkey. As bad a panic merchant as I've seen. Decision making in the heat of battle was putrid. He was a dead set curse. To put Willo in this class is terribly unfair. He is still in Good, bad and ugly mode but I really have confidence he is improving. Watch this space.

Thats hindsight talking.

People forget, Paul Bower was persisted with for a long time before the panic merchant tag set in. He actually played 70 games for us. Willo has now played 25 games. You think if at the same time, Bower was looked at in the same light as he is now? After 25 games he was still looked at as having potential.

Now again, i'm not sure we can right Willo off yet.....but i'm definitely seeing a lot of similarities. I used to watch Bower closely back in the day - when we had the player threads.....and its concerning.

re: Williamson = Bower.....thats about as bad as it gets in terms of comparisons, Rocky was right, Bower is in a class of his own in terms of panicking and being a deer in the headlights. Most fans would be livid but Bower became comical at the end, he couldnt perform basic skills properly Did a left handed handpass once at a critical point in a game that resembled John Howards attempts to bowl a cricket ball, fans were laughing it was that bad.
Williamson will need counselling if he reads he is being compared to Bower.....the former showed in his first season he is a very good footballer when fit and firing. I commend Teague for playing him and showing faith as he probably should have been dropped a while back, he needs work to build more confidence.
I probably would have played him off a wing where his turnovers didnt hurt the team so much and he could run a bit with more freedom and use that left foot.

re: Williamson = Bower.....thats about as bad as it gets in terms of comparisons, Rocky was right, Bower is in a class of his own in terms of panicking and being a deer in the headlights. Most fans would be livid but Bower became comical at the end, he couldnt perform basic skills properly Did a left handed handpass once at a critical point in a game that resembled John Howards attempts to bowl a cricket ball, fans were laughing it was that bad.
Williamson will need counselling if he reads he is being compared to Bower.....the former showed in his first season he is a very good footballer when fit and firing. I commend Teague for playing him and showing faith as he probably should have been dropped a while back, he needs work to build more confidence.
I probably would have played him off a wing where his turnovers didnt hurt the team so much and he could run a bit with more freedom and use that left foot.

That was was really brought the comparison to mind. Willo did one last night.

FWIW, Bower was AA U18 CHB. Had bigger wraps on him than Willo did.

The media have the memory of a gold fish. Clearly they are incapable of remembering the two shockers Freo got in the first quarter that gifted them goals. Not part of the narrative I guess.
The umpires didn't pay deliberate all night but I think they are instructed to be red hot in the last quarter if the game is tight. The free was there. You cannot crash into a player after he has kicked the ball, the free down field was there. Gibbons should have taken the kick.
Against Port I thought they were probably the better side on the day, though we should have closed it out in the end. Lat night I thought we were the better side on the night. Curnow was enormous, Cripps is starting to get into form, I thought against Hawthorn he played a selfish game, the last couple of weeks he has got back to being team orientated as well as getting the ball. He needs to nail those shots on goals if he wants to elevate from a very very good player to being a great. There seemed to be a media conspiracy to denigrate Sam Walsh earlier in the season but he has demonstrated what a fantastic player he is and going to be for a long time. There are a lot of Murphy haters on this site but he continues to get the ball and do a lot of work that goes unrecognized. Fisher added a bit of pace around the ball which was good. We really need to get more pace into the side. Dow, Cuningham, Honey, Philp and O'Brien should give us that run into the future. Cottrell looks a hard footballer. I like him.
Sos's last draft looks a real winner, on top of the young players we have brought in Betts, Martin, Newnes and Pittonet for a future 4th round pick and the trading of Andrew Phillips. We also seem to be nailing the late picks and the rookies, which has been the basis of Richmond surge to the top. Cottrell, Honey, and Gibbons are all rookies, and Williamson a late pick, along with Curnow, Casboult and Betts gives the team an underlying strength of players who had to work hard to get success.

That was was really brought the comparison to mind. Willo did one last night.

FWIW, Bower was AA U18 CHB. Had bigger wraps on him than Willo did.

I do remember he did a dodgy handpass but the Fyfe steal that Cookie pointed out was a low point as Williamson looked dejected allbeit Fyfe is a beast of a player but the good Williamson wouldnt have been so easily stripped of the ball.
Yep Williamson was pick 60 odd and a real spec pick but did show plenty till he did his back and as you correctly stated Bower was a AA U18 CHB, problem with Bower was he never showed any glimpse of that U18 rating at all and it probably tells you how bad we were if a player like Bower could play 70 games..

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=I&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=6384&pid2=1626&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2010

Like for like comparison.....
Bower's season turning 22 vs Willos season turning 22.

Bower has it all over him.....except Clangers in which Willo has more.

Just saying.....

78.2%   Disposal Efficiency %   84.5%
Bower is the right......and HE was the one who kept turning it over?

i thought Willo has taken a few positive steps in the last few games...

The conditions were crapty last night and to a lesser extent against WCE.

No more fumbly than Doc quite frankly. Or Samo!

I actually thought Willo was pretty good. I'm going to give him a mention in the voting. Similarly Plowman and Jones. Both did stirling jobs and kept their opponents ineffective. Jones slaughtered Lobb, while Plow kept Fyffe quiet when he was forward, except for the first quarter. Cottrell was good value as well. SPS kept his man reasonably quiet, but had not effect on the game at all. Weitering was closest to lowering his colours for the first time this year.

Well, we found a way to stop 30pt turnarounds..................play in a real low scorer where the result is 5 goals each...lol.

We did manage to have a 21pt run against us though, this time from the start.

Our record of being the only side not to score under 50pts went out the window too. At least it went out with a win.

There were some very positive signs for us in the midfield. Kennedy did nothing and Newnes did nothing (until it counted), yet we won the clearances to losing rucks.
Our mids were really hard at. Setters didn't have a big night, but he was good in the clinches. Ed was great, Cripps appeared to be getting back to form, Murphy wasn't bad at all and Walsh was excellent.
De Koning shows a lot, but he isn't quite ready yet. I was happy about that.
I really hated the opportunities we threw away in the 3rd and 4th quarters. There was a period where we kicked 1 goal five. Five goals one and the game is over. And we mucked up going forward a lot.
Eddie was very quiet again. There must be real questions now on whether he goes on. Captain of the 2nds, perhaps, and part of coaching staff. He works very with the indigenous lads.

Owies kicked another three: worth a game?

Interesting early days I thought Williamson was set to be a HFF, that was were his best games seemed to be played.

I gather his back issues have put pay to the frequent direction changes that requires so they've concentrated on getting him off the HBF and he can use his aggression to attack the footy in front of him. Let's not forget he's hardly played much in the last few years, and he is only young.

Secondly, I'm not going to discount the attack on the football he brings just because he's fumbling a bit. His aggression has a significant affect on those around him, and therefore I think he is beneficial.

Eddie remains AFAIC .... too valuable and I'm certain the list would say it

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=I&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=6384&pid2=1626&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2010

Like for like comparison.....
Bower's season turning 22 vs Willos season turning 22.

Bower has it all over him.....except Clangers in which Willo has more.

Just saying.....

78.2%   Disposal Efficiency %   84.5%
Bower is the right......and HE was the one who kept turning it over?

I rest my case....comedy Gold...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjPGjr49s7o

Proves nothing.

I reckon i've seen Cripps do that too.

Again, people have some short memories and are letting hindsight cloud their judgement.

FWIW, Paul Bower finished 7th in the B+F in 2009.
Sure, we were a crap side......but 8th was Kade Simpson.....who actually played 2 more games than Bower.

Proves nothing.

I reckon i've seen Cripps do that too.

Again, people have some short memories and are letting hindsight cloud their judgement.

FWIW, Paul Bower finished 7th in the B+F in 2009.
Sure, we were a crap side......but 8th was Kade Simpson.....who actually played 2 more games than Bower.

Nope don't have a short memory. My memories of Paul Bower remain etched in my psyche. Are they memories or nightmares?
He was a dud from very early on in my mind. Pretty sure I started calling him a donkey after a season. I don't get the same vibe with Willo. In fact I just finished watching the replay and I think he played quite well in the end. Probably stuffed up twice but on a number of occasions he was super. Let's not forget he's come back from a fair amount of time off as well. I think he needs to get through this year, then a full pre-season and decide by the end of 2021 if he is Bower-esk.

I watch this, and i see Willo.
The eagerness to run, the unknown in front of him some good stuff, some bad stuff.

The mixed bag that was Paul Bower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHXh4EVoXQA

FYI, that was the only Bower video i could find.

This was the only reall Willo video.

Same. same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pNHJjRyFOg

Proves nothing.

I reckon i've seen Cripps do that too.

Again, people have some short memories and are letting hindsight cloud their judgement.

FWIW, Paul Bower finished 7th in the B+F in 2009.
Sure, we were a crap side......but 8th was Kade Simpson.....who actually played 2 more games than Bower.

I'm sure if Cripps did something as stupid as that it would have been highlighted and on Youtube too...that is classic Bower asleep at the wheel.
Plowman had more votes than Weitering in the B &F last season but I know who I would be picking 1st in my best lineup..B&F's can be very charitable to some players for encouragement so I take them with a grain of salt.
Dont think Bower managed a brownlow vote did he in those 70 comedic games...?
re: those videos...I know who is the better kick.....Williamson too easy...

Seems a bit ugly to be talking trash about a player from years ago now...

I think Willo has the skills and is adapting to the pace, trying to find confidence and sustained form. I don’t see him panicking when he gets the ball, to me it seems he’s looking for the best option. I rate him.

We've had some weird results. The one pt loss to Melbourne coming from 42 behind, 2pts win at Geelong after being 42pts in front, won a game by a pt against Essendon that was saved by a falcon, lost with a kick after the siren to Port, then won with a kick after the siren against Freo in really weird circumstances.

I'm sure if Cripps did something as stupid as that it would have been highlighted and on Youtube too...that is classic Bower asleep at the wheel.
Plowman had more votes than Weitering in the B &F last season but I know who I would be picking 1st in my best lineup..B&F's can be very charitable to some players for encouragement so I take them with a grain of salt.
Dont think Bower managed a brownlow vote did he in those 70 comedic games...?

So you ignore his B+F and try and get the umpires to prove how good/bad he is?
You've just lost the argument.

If it wasn't Cripps, it was someone equally high up on the chain.
If you want to try and search through videos with 'cripps' in the title to find the 5 second clip....be my guest.

I actually thought Willo was pretty good. I'm going to give him a mention in the voting. Similarly Plowman and Jones. Both did stirling jobs and kept their opponents ineffective. Jones slaughtered Lobb, while Plow kept Fyffe quiet when he was forward, except for the first quarter. Cottrell was good value as well. SPS kept his man reasonably quiet, but had not effect on the game at all. Weitering was closest to lowering his colours for the first time this year.

Astute observations Crash  :)

Willo’s one percenters don’t make the stats but they do make a difference on the field.  Apart from Fyffe’s flukish “steal”, Willo was dependable and defended well.

Cottrell’s goal was great, and his celebration even better!  I thought that he was a solid contributor and his pressure helped to suppress the Freo mids.  His disposal efficiency was poor but Cripps, Curnow and Murphy weren’t much better.  As EB suggested, the conditions played a big part in that, as did our tactic of trying to gain territory at every opportunity.

teague and his coaching panel are so fortunate,a couple of close wins covers the reality that our game plan is no good untrustworthy.

teague and his coaching panel are so fortunate,a couple of close wins covers the reality that our game plan is no good untrustworthy.

One of those close wins was Geelong. We've had close losses too so we could've been even better off. 11-11 under Teague, much better than it was before that. Won't happen overnight.

teague and his coaching panel are so fortunate,a couple of close wins covers the reality that our game plan is no good untrustworthy.

What are the flaws?
How would you address them?

So you ignore his B+F and try and get the umpires to prove how good/bad he is?
You've just lost the argument.

If it wasn't Cripps, it was someone equally high up on the chain.
If you want to try and search through videos with 'cripps' in the title to find the 5 second clip....be my guest.

Your suggesting because Bower got more votes than Simpson one year in a B&F
that makes him a vastly superior player than Williamson... I'm saying the rest of the AFL didn't seem to rate him at all except the kind folk at Carlton who threw him a bone or two at the B&F.
Bower sadly was a running joke as a footballer for opposition fans and our own and remains that way.. I don't see Williamson getting to that comedic level and rate him higher, you disagree then that's fine...

Your suggesting because Bower got more votes than Simpson one year in a B&F
that makes him a vastly superior player than Williamson... I'm saying the rest of the AFL didn't seem to rate him at all except the kind folk at Carlton who threw him a bone or two at the B&F.
Bower sadly was a running joke as a footballer for opposition fans and our own and remains that way.. I don't see Williamson getting to that comedic level and rate him higher, you disagree then that's fine...

No i'm suggesting Bower was not as bad as your memory (and a few others) make out.

No i'm not suggesting Bower is vastly superior to Williamson.

As i said, i reckon at where they are/were at the same age, that they are basically the same player.
From there, we all know where Bower got to (or didn't get to) in terms of his career. I'm hoping Willo is able to break away from a somewhat similar career path up to this point and do better.

Whole point was that i see A LOT of similarities between them. You, and a few others have turned this into a Paul Bower slagging match in defense of a bloke who was not even being criticised.

Whole point was that i see A LOT of similarities between them. You, and a few others have turned this into a Paul Bower slagging match in defense of a bloke who was not even being criticised.

Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.

Dude, seriously?

No i'm suggesting Bower was not as bad as your memory (and a few others) make out.

No i'm not suggesting Bower is vastly superior to Williamson.

As i said, i reckon at where they are/were at the same age, that they are basically the same player.
From there, we all know where Bower got to (or didn't get to) in terms of his career. I'm hoping Willo is able to break away from a somewhat similar career path up to this point and do better.

Whole point was that i see A LOT of similarities between them. You, and a few others have turned this into a Paul Bower slagging match in defense of a bloke who was not even being criticised.

I think when you compare any player to the likes of Paul Bower you are going to get a negative reaction but you knew that😉 ,I'm a Williamson fan but happy to admit he has been average to poor since returning from injury but throwing him in the same boat as Bower is extreme and needed defending. I watched a bit of Williamson again from the game and he is running very ginger and upright like he doesnt want pressure on his lower back or fears pressure, given how serious his injury has been I thinks its a bit unfair to be calling him the next Bower in the making..

Bower had lots of talent, he looked like he was going to be a gun early in his career. Pretty sure he did the job on Buddy one day and then it was all downhill after that.

Bower was crippled by injuries.
Just when he started to show some signs down he'd  go again.
When he was fit he was in and out of the side like a yo-yo.
Two week injuries stretched into long periods out.
He even prompted a heated discussion on this site about the club being less than honest about injuries.
Many of us remember those 'deer in the headlight' moments but by that stage his confidence and judgement was shot.

I think when you compare any player to the likes of Paul Bower you are going to get a negative reaction but you knew that😉 ,I'm a Williamson fan but happy to admit he has been average to poor since returning from injury but throwing him in the same boat as Bower is extreme and needed defending. I watched a bit of Williamson again from the game and he is running very ginger and upright like he doesnt want pressure on his lower back or fears pressure, given how serious his injury has been I thinks its a bit unfair to be calling him the next Bower in the making..

Shame on us really.

One week we're slagging off Plowman, another week Jones or SPS, this week Willo.

Can't we just accept we luckily got the chocolates after a dire game in dismal conditions.

And look forward to the next game.

Willo was no worse than Weitering, Doc or Samo yesterday.

Bower had lots of talent, he looked like he was going to be a gun early in his career. Pretty sure he did the job on Buddy one day and then it was all downhill after that.

Exactly.
People forget how good he was early on and only remember the howlers he made.

....and injury killed his career.

Things didn't turn out for him after his injuries and despite showing early signs.

....and nobody can see the comparisons with Willo.....and his back....and some of his questionable decisions with ball in hand.

Shame on us really.

One week we're slagging off Plowman, another week Jones or SPS, this week Willo.

Can't we just accept we luckily got the chocolates after a dire game in dismal conditions.

And look forward to the next game.

Willo was no worse than Weitering, Doc or Samo yesterday.

I thought that those four all had solid games. 

At the start of the game Samo seemed  desperate to get his boot to the ball; under instruction or a hangover from the two terrible frees paid against him last week?  He settled down as the game went on and created opportunities with clever ball use.

Weitering was made to look bad by two awful umpiring decisions but he was his usual reliable self other than that.

Doc did some great work in defence but his role sometimes means that he gets caught out or leaves another defender under the pump.  It wasn't ideal conditions for Doc ... or most of his teammates.

Willo lost the ball when Fyffe fluked a freakish "steal".  That won't happen again for the rest of his career ... and probably not in Fyffe's either.  Willo provides an element of hardness in what is a fairly benign defensive unit and I reckon he is developing nicely.

It would be nice if the critics could acknowledge that their whipping boy(s) had a good game   ::)

On another note, I reckon the saying "Hard as a cat's head" should be replaced by "Hard as Simmo's head"  :D

Thoughts on our kicking into our F50?

Is it their defenders were so good and knew where to be? Or our forwards not working hard enough to get to good position?

Watched the final quarter earlier and sorry to say but Murph was quite instrumental in some of our plays, yes he made a few errors but nothing that stood out to me - Weiters kicked it OOTF as did Doch.

Thoughts on our kicking into our F50?

Is it their defenders were so good and knew where to be? Or our forwards not working hard enough to get to good position?

Watched the final quarter earlier and sorry to say but Murph was quite instrumental in some of our plays, yes he made a few errors but nothing that stood out to me - Weiters kicked it OOTF as did Doch.

Conditions didnt help kicking into the forward 50...neither team could get any system and it was a war of attrition in terms of getting the ball forward anyway you could.
Both teams defenses were on top and no forward dominated although Taberner could probably say he did his job with three goals
Weitering wasnt bad IMO...Taberner got an iffy free and a crumbed snap that bounced his way but there was just the one goal where he beat Weitering in the square. Weitering does the odd iffy kick on the left especially when he tries to get cute with the ball but every backman makes at least one error most games.
@DJC...Whipping boys...Plowman was ok especially on Fyfe, read the ball well and was assisted by the conditions, didnt see a lot of Samo but didnt see his man either so job done. The Freo small forwards, Walters, Frederick and Schultz were non events.
Williamson was shaky but persisted, Simpson got felled by a Falcon but battled on, Docherty was steady and I gave him a vote, nothing spectacular about his game but no major errors either and in close games thats important for a defender.

Just watched replay and Willo in particular. My initial reaction stands. He's building. This week he tackled well, including 2 x HTB sgainst Fyfe (Not sure many have that small win against their name 25 games in).

I don't believe he panicked either. To me panicked = Jason Tutt. It's more learning when to go, when to dispose. Decision making under heat in other words. His instinct is to run with ball in hand. That doesn't always come off resulting in poor DE. I think it was q4 where he used his evasive skills and strong kicking to find an important target at a crucial time. Another small win.

Well the MRP are up to it's usual rubbish.

Fisher gets fined after Darcy and Brayshaw labelled Fisher's tackle as a chicken wing, Cottrell gets fined for careless conduct against Aish. Both incidents highlighted by the commentary crew.

Several Carlton players were dumped in sling like tackles by Freo players and not a single Freo player was cited! No a sound from Darcy, Brayshaw or Richo, no MRP action.

It's obvious the MRP is unable to isolate itself from media influence, so it is therefore biased or corrupt.

I believe we were the better side and deserved to win. Such is our want that we will make it as difficult as we possible can for ourselves.  :(

The Good:
Cottrell. Plus I really like that he has a dash of mongrel.
TDK. Some of his tap outs to advantage were deft. Although the opposition wasn't A grade the kid gave his all and showed considerable potential.
Backline. That group back there have saved our bacon on a number of occasions. BUT I still think SPS should be up the ground... maybe, just maybe, Polson will have improved enough to slot in down there... he has speed and attitude on his side. Fingers crossed.
E Curnow. Ever reliable and should be acknowledged for his consistent excellent efforts... though, Ed, please improve your DE.
Crippa. Moving nicely back into good form.
Walsh. Second year blues well and truly gone... and like Ed, improve your disposal kiddo.
Newnes. Ordinary game, great final kick. And people can stop whining about Gibbons being the one who should have taken the kick... he'd have kicked it too.
Teague. For stating clearly and strongly, again, that our expectation is to win... therefore, make finals. Love definitive public statement like that.

The Bad:
Commentary re Newnes goal after the siren. Especially Richo who said that who ever it was who barrelled over Doc after he'd taken his kick couldn't have slowed up/just part of his momentum. Have another look, Richo, Oh Head Of Immaculate Density... the player virtually stopped then pushed Doc in the chest - a free every day of the week.

The Confusing:
Murphy. When moved onto the ball he certainly did some good things, BUT, some of his efforts, for an experienced bloke, lacked authority and then a few disposals by foot had you pulling your hair out. However, some of his 'linking' was first rate. He sure has become a polarising character. The one thing about Murph that I personally dislike enormously, is that he seems to lack tenacity and passion for the contest... seems to always want to finesse, and that p1sses me off when so many other blokes/mids are throwing their bodies into the fray. He might occasionally do it, but it is NOT his default position - don't care what the reasons are, if you can't hurt for your mates then FO. If he does sign on for next year I hope he is informed that a guarantee of games is NOT automatic and at some stage he WILL have to make way for a young bloke.

The Ugly:
Our DE (Disposal Efficiency) is just about the worst in the league. We regularly have around a half a dozen blokes with a DE under 50%. Against the D1ckers we had 8 blokes with a DE under 50% FFS. That means that at any given time we have almost half the blokes on the field wasting half or more of their possessions. I looked back over a number of our games -- wins and losses -- and FMD it is a trend. So I randomly picked other sides to see their list and DE %s -- winners, losers, top of the ladder, bottom of the ladder -- and very few had any where near as many players with a deplorable DE comparable to ours. We clean up on this and look out world.

After watching the game a second time I really thought the umpires only had a few howlers, favouring/penalising each side... Crippa could easily have been pinged for dropping the ball in front of their goal when he was tackled and his attempted kick missed everything, that's just one example. Nothing near the level of last week's obscene umpiring exhibition.

After watching the game a second time I really thought the umpires only had a few howlers, favouring/penalising each side... Crippa could easily have been pinged for dropping the ball in front of their goal when he was tackled and his attempted kick missed everything, that's just one example. Nothing near the level of last week's obscene umpiring exhibition.

Baggers I haven't watched the game again...yet...but IIRC:
1. Cripps threw the ball out and if I am not mistaken, a couple of possessions later resulted in the Cottrell goal. If not the Cottrell goal someone elses but it definitely preceeded one of our goals.
2. I thought Casboult pushed the Freo ruckman in the back, gained possession and snapped that goal.
IMO, these squared up the two howlers in the first qtr that resulted in the Taberner and Lobb goals.

What I don't get about the Murphy criticism at the moment is he's being doing the exact same stuff for 5+ years.

Are people just noticing it now?

Re. our disposal into the forward line - this is where we veer wildly from capable of destroying opponents to very easy to stop.

It happens not just week by week but quarter by quarter.

Opponents drop a couple loose players back, apply enough pressure through the midfield to force a quick kick and we're cooked. It is going to take a real leap in our mental toughness to change this. To just keep taking the opponents on all game every game, rather than bail out and go safe at the first sign of the opponents applying some pressure. - which is what is happening now.

Baggers I haven't watched the game again...yet...but IIRC:
1. Cripps threw the ball out and if I am not mistaken, a couple of possessions later resulted in the Cottrell goal. If not the Cottrell goal someone elses but it definitely preceeded one of our goals.
2. I thought Casboult pushed the Freo ruckman in the back, gained possession and snapped that goal.
IMO, these squared up the two howlers in the first qtr that resulted in the Taberner and Lobb goals.

Casboult very clearly got into his opponent's side. If that is illegal they may as well call it netball.

Casboult very clearly got into his opponent's side. If that is illegal they may as well call it netball.

The one Lobb got was in the side and weak as piss from the Ump, I thought Casboults was more in the back than the the side. As I said, I havent seen it again so I will stand corrected.

Casboult very clearly got into his opponent's side. If that is illegal they may as well call it netball.

Found this, looks in the back to me.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/videos/afl/casboult-snaps-carltons-first-goal/ckdvjxh1b004r0glkvitmc7pq

What I don't get about the Murphy criticism at the moment is he's being doing the exact same stuff for 5+ years.

Are people just noticing it now?

Good point. I reckon he's lost half a yard plus there is more talent around him now so his weaknesses are even more apparent. He's a fair dinkum conundrum. Against cheats.com.au in the last qtr some of his disposal by foot was sublime and helped us come back and win the game... then against the D1ckers I saw him kick into our forward line and land the ball beautifully into the hands of an opponent... does it too often and some of his bollocking work in the clinches is, well, ineffectual.

The one Lobb got was in the side and weak as piss from the Ump,

That ump was no way in the right position to be able to tell where he was pushed - he guessed

Good point. I reckon he's lost half a yard

At least half a yard plus Murph no longer seems to have the quick acceleration he used to have.

The Good:
Cottrell. Plus I really like that he has a dash of mongrel.
TDK. Some of his tap outs to advantage were deft. Although the opposition wasn't A grade the kid gave his all and showed considerable potential.
Backline. That group back there have saved our bacon on a number of occasions. BUT I still think SPS should be up the ground... maybe, just maybe, Polson will have improved enough to slot in down there... he has speed and attitude on his side. Fingers crossed.
E Curnow. Ever reliable and should be acknowledged for his consistent excellent efforts... though, Ed, please improve your DE.
Crippa. Moving nicely back into good form.
Walsh. Second year blues well and truly gone... and like Ed, improve your disposal kiddo.
Newnes. Ordinary game, great final kick. And people can stop whining about Gibbons being the one who should have taken the kick... he'd have kicked it too.
Teague. For stating clearly and strongly, again, that our expectation is to win... therefore, make finals. Love definitive public statement like that.

The Bad:
Commentary re Newnes goal after the siren. Especially Richo who said that who ever it was who barrelled over Doc after he'd taken his kick couldn't have slowed up/just part of his momentum. Have another look, Richo, Oh Head Of Immaculate Density... the player virtually stopped then pushed Doc in the chest - a free every day of the week.

The Confusing:
Murphy. When moved onto the ball he certainly did some good things, BUT, some of his efforts, for an experienced bloke, lacked authority and then a few disposals by foot had you pulling your hair out. However, some of his 'linking' was first rate. He sure has become a polarising character. The one thing about Murph that I personally dislike enormously, is that he seems to lack tenacity and passion for the contest... seems to always want to finesse, and that p1sses me off when so many other blokes/mids are throwing their bodies into the fray. He might occasionally do it, but it is NOT his default position - don't care what the reasons are, if you can't hurt for your mates then FO. If he does sign on for next year I hope he is informed that a guarantee of games is NOT automatic and at some stage he WILL have to make way for a young bloke.

The Ugly:
Our DE (Disposal Efficiency) is just about the worst in the league. We regularly have around a half a dozen blokes with a DE under 50%. Against the D1ckers we had 8 blokes with a DE under 50% FFS. That means that at any given time we have almost half the blokes on the field wasting half or more of their possessions. I looked back over a number of our games -- wins and losses -- and FMD it is a trend. So I randomly picked other sides to see their list and DE %s -- winners, losers, top of the ladder, bottom of the ladder -- and very few had any where near as many players with a deplorable DE comparable to ours. We clean up on this and look out world.

After watching the game a second time I really thought the umpires only had a few howlers, favouring/penalising each side... Crippa could easily have been pinged for dropping the ball in front of their goal when he was tackled and his attempted kick missed everything, that's just one example. Nothing near the level of last week's obscene umpiring exhibition.

Cottrell. Not a game for finesse but his attack on the contest was first rate.
TDK. Some of his tap outs to advantage were deft - YES - Now, if only he would hold an occasional mark.

Curnow - Excellent wet weather disposal - not pretty but damn quick.

Newnes. Great final kick and temperament in not being rushed. The rest of his game was better than his stats might suggest - not the most gifted player but he does his job - was in the Saints leadership group for a reason (other than the fact that they didn't have anyone else).

The Bad:
Commentary in general- Richo needs to shut up more than he talks - has been badly influenced by exposure to the incessant crap from BT and Bruce.

re:Scrutiny on Murphy, game is more contested, more players on the ball and cameras everywhere. If you shirk contests, put in short steps you are going to get pinged and it's going to be commentated on.
Even Cripps got nailed the previous week when he pulled up short to mark the ball.
The old days of carrying inconsistent or non contested type players are over.

Even Cripps got nailed the previous week when he pulled up short to mark the ball.

Try as I might EB, I can't see what he did was anymore that stuff up a simple mark.  Is there video of it or is that not one and the same incident?

re:Scrutiny on Murphy, game is more contested, more players on the ball and cameras everywhere. If you shirk contests, put in short steps you are going to get pinged and it's going to be commentated on.
Even Cripps got nailed the previous week when he pulled up short to mark the ball.
The old days of carrying inconsistent or non contested type players are over.

100% and TF for that... no more hiding. You and I seem to agree on a love of accountability.

At least half a yard plus Murph no longer seems to have the quick acceleration he used to have.

Yep.

Try as I might EB, I can't see what he did was anymore that stuff up a simple mark.  Is there video of it?

EB1 is spot on here, CC. I watched the replay (lashed out and got Kayo tacked onto our Telstra a/c) and there's no doubt there was a 'hesitation' moment and he didn't commit to the mark in his usual style. IN NO WAY should that be seen as casting any doubt on Crippa's courage... in fact it was only so noticeable because it is totally unlike Crippa, but that day a degree of hesitation was apparent in a lot of blokes from time to time.

Good point. I reckon he's lost half a yard plus there is more talent around him now so his weaknesses are even more apparent. He's a fair dinkum conundrum. Against cheats.com.au in the last qtr some of his disposal by foot was sublime and helped us come back and win the game... then against the D1ckers I saw him kick into our forward line and land the ball beautifully into the hands of an opponent... does it too often and some of his bollocking work in the clinches is, well, ineffectual.

I was one of the people in the game tread that was critical. His lack of defensive pressure and hunger for contact has become so apparent. This is countered by his above average disposal, but when that abandons him (as it did for some of the last game) he becomes a liability.  He either continues to kick it really well or he does not, if that goes he is in  trouble.

This ultra close scrutiny of a players every move makes me nervous and must be very disconcerting for the players.  Have we been in lockdown too long?? 🤔

EB1 is spot on here, CC. I watched the replay (lashed out and got Kayo tacked onto our Telstra a/c) and there's no doubt there was a 'hesitation' moment and he didn't commit to the mark in his usual style. IN NO WAY should that be seen as casting any doubt on Crippa's courage... in fact it was only so noticeable because it is totally unlike Crippa, but that day a degree of hesitation was apparent in a lot of blokes from time to time.

Fair enough Baggers (and EB) ... I just thought it was a monumentally clumsy attempt and of course we all know he shirks nothing.

Found this, looks in the back to me.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/videos/afl/casboult-snaps-carltons-first-goal/ckdvjxh1b004r0glkvitmc7pq

The other angle shows Casboult's left hand into his side and pushes Lobb to the side - notice Lobb isn't sent flying forwards but gets spun and ends up facing Casboult?

At least half a yard plus Murph no longer seems to have the quick acceleration he used to have.

I think he accelerates just fine as he opens a gap, nearly always gets a few quick steps in then gets closed down, I think it is because he has lost some top speed rather than acceleration.

Interesting by comparison, I think Cripps has gained some acceleration but hasn't really gained any top speed.

Just looking at the reserves highlights. We managed some of the easiest goal I've ever seen a Carlton team kick. Almost all were from the square. It would be really nice if we could replicate that in the seniors!

There were 2 long bombs from Moore from his own clearances from the ruck. Most impressive. Pity he can't do that in the seniors either!

The footy gods owed us that one so I’m not in the camp that we were lucky but rather we were unlucky early controlled the game but could t finish off and then ended it with a kick that was pure gold.

Was a crap game crap skills and we had a lot of blokes that were not playing anywhere near their best yet IMO we were the better team for most of the night just didn’t put it on the scoreboard.
Sometimes you win ugly that’s what good teams do. Looking at this one positively we deserved the small win and have tons of upside.

Bring on GC reckon our boys will be very keen to show the football world we are further advanced then they are.

And so we should be.

We deserved to win this win about as much as we did last week.

The only difference is, that a real side would have put Freo away with 10 minutes to go when we kicked all those behinds.

we really failed to pile on the scoring when we needed to, which made it much closer than it should have been.

Freo were crap.  They got 2 free goals from non existant frees, and the final free kick was the karma bus hitting them, not us getting one we were owed.  We bank the 4 points, and that game was almost as dissapointing as the Hawthorn game for mine.

IMHO, we need to start taking our chances, and the magnifying glass needs to be on Cripps for his ability to take a regulation shot for goal, and impersonate Levi from a few years back when he was as unreliable as a broken watch.

Fair enough Baggers (and EB) ... I just thought it was a monumentally clumsy attempt and of course we all know he shirks nothing.

Cap, No criticism of Cripps, most players have a moment like that in their career and you wont see that again probably ever but it goes to show its an easy thing to do when the the pressure is on and how the cameras capture everything so players who struggle consistently in that area or have been branded as suspect wont get much breathing space from scrutiny as there are more eyes watching and technology is everywhere recording every second.

Even Cripps got nailed the previous week when he pulled up short to mark the ball.

Is that the one that went over his head, he was running with the flight?

 In fairness to Cripps I thought he turned into a face full of pelting rain and glaring stadium lights, and lost the footy in flight.

A lot of talk about who should have taken the last kick.  In the mayhem that was happening, the umpire making the decision probably was looking for a Fremantle player, being unaware of the downfield free kick.  To then try to work out who the closest Blues player was is much harder as they have moved around.  It is easy to look at a screen after the event to see whose kick it was and where it should have been taken from.

In terms of the defence of Brayshaw - he was in the air, there was nothing he could do - how does that matter? It was late  Given the couple of in the back frees we had given away in the last quarter (correct decisions) a bit of consistency means it had to be paid.  Love the commentators trying to defend Brayshaw on that.

I think that Docherty did see Brayshaw and it affected his kick, which was probably a good thing, otherwise it would have just been a bomb into our forward line that we wouldn't have marked or roved.

So glad we won after again trying so hard not to!

Is that the one that went over his head, he was running with the flight?

 In fairness to Cripps I thought he turned into a face full of pelting rain and glaring stadium lights, and lost the footy in flight.

Nuh, wasn't that one. It was almost in the goal square and he was virtually stationary.

we go for the quick kick because our mids are to slow and our fwds don't lead anyway  so this has been happening for years.Need to recruit quick mids that can seperate from the pack hit up on the lead .(fwd coach)

This ultra close scrutiny of a players every move makes me nervous and must be very disconcerting for the players.  Have we been in lockdown too long?? 🤔

If I was a player I would stay the fck away from social media, in the fact the media in general. I wouldn't read a damn thing. The only opinions that would matter to me would be my team mates and coaches.

This ultra close scrutiny of a players every move makes me nervous and must be very disconcerting for the players.  Have we been in lockdown too long?? 🤔

I like the way supporters are able to divine players' intentions, thought processes, instructions, roles, intestinal fortitude, application, motivation, etc ... but it's all good fun  :)

On another matter, I'm rapt that Cottrell made his debut and got to back it up.  He did some good things and his goal was great but I'm not sure how he could be among our best players with just 4 effective disposals  :-\

Just looking at the reserves highlights. We managed some of the easiest goal I've ever seen a Carlton team kick. Almost all were from the square. It would be really nice if we could replicate that in the seniors!

There were 2 long bombs from Moore from his own clearances from the ruck. Most impressive. Pity he can't do that in the seniors either!

Also alot of that work was either done or initiated by dominant Moore. Pity he contributed zero in two games in the 1's. We have a long history of guys dominating in the 2's only to being nothing more than witches hats upon promotion. I guess this year is particularly challenging with the scratch matches. This reinforces the need for a competitive and standalone reserves team that is in sync with 1's coaching and game plan.
 

Does anyone else think Cripps look sore? I mean he's looked sore all year. Massive bandage on his knee and sore back. May be making excuses but he clearly looks sore to me.

Does anyone else think Cripps look sore? I mean he's looked sore all year. Massive bandage on his knee and sore back. May be making excuses but he clearly looks sore to me.

Well he's definitely not 100% fit due to some type of injury imo. More of the others have now started to share the load and hopefully Crippa will see less close attention  in the future. We still need another midfield beast .

AFL have ticked off the free and the 50, but have acknowledged that Gibbon's should of taken the kick. The ball was thrown to Newens by the umpire who was one of 4 players gathered around the mark. So umpire made the mistake. Not sure if it was the boundary umpire or the field umpire.

Prior to that one of the funniest things i have seen in a long time was after Jones marked in the pocket, he looked very nervous. Eddie was close by and must of said something to him and Jones just threw him the ball to him only for the umpire to call on Jones to take the kick.

AFL have ticked off the free and the 50, but have acknowledged that Gibbon's should of taken the kick. The ball was thrown to Newens by the umpire who was one of 4 players gathered around the mark. So umpire made the mistake. Not sure if it was the boundary umpire or the field umpire.

Prior to that one of the funniest things i have seen in a long time was after Jones marked in the pocket, he looked very nervous. Eddie was close by and must of said something to him and Jones just threw him the ball to him only for the umpire to call on Jones to take the kick.

Yes, Eddie told the story when interviewed post game. He said to Jones "do you want to kick it or will I?" to which Jones replied "you have it" and tried to handball it to him.

Prior to that one of the funniest things i have seen in a long time was after Jones marked in the pocket, he looked very nervous. Eddie was close by and must of said something to him and Jones just threw him the ball to him only for the umpire to call on Jones to take the kick.

Yeah poor Liam, one of those rabbit in the headlights situations, he had a moment or two to think about what he'd done and it looked like he was about the sh1t the bed!

He won't make that mistake again, you can see his future thought process, next time punch, punch, punch, punch! :o :D

Maybe I'm getting an understanding of where all those chaos punches come from, if you don't catch it you don't have to kick it! :P

Don't understand the Weitering criticism floating around, excluding two seriously dud umpiring decisions, and one shocking toe stub kick, I reckon he got the better of his opponent!

btw. What is it with these big FFs not having to face the football in those one on one battles, is this a new rule? That is two games, this one against Freo and the Aints game, that a resting ruckmen/FF has basically turned their back to the ball and thrown our KPD to the ground while the ball is 30m away and not been penalised!

Does anyone else think Cripps look sore? I mean he's looked sore all year. Massive bandage on his knee and sore back. May be making excuses but he clearly looks sore to me.

He's been wearing that knee bandage for years now so hard to tell. You can see cupping marks under his jumper but I recall seeing those last year so again, hard to tell. I just reckon he is trying to too hard. I cant remember who made the comment on TV or radio but they compared Fyfe and Cripps playing style. Fyfe sits off the contest at a ball up then moves in hitting it on the move. Cripps sits under it more and gets belted as soon as he wins it. As Diesel also said on SEN, he loves the physical contact but too much. Needs to sit off it a little more and minimise the hits.

Does anyone else think Cripps look sore? I mean he's looked sore all year. Massive bandage on his knee and sore back. May be making excuses but he clearly looks sore to me.

Reminds me of Judd, banged up like he has been carrying a team on his shoulders....needs resting but with some hope of finals
wont happen, but if we have a loss I'd be be giving him a break after that.

About 5 pages of articles in today's West over here about the umpiring and how Freo were robbed etc. Funny, in all the years of West Coast getting it on a silver platter from the umpires, including that cheating pr#ck Margetts, there hasn't been anywhere near as much coverage. We were reamed sideways last week by the umpires so it's nice to have a win for a change.

As for the bleating about the wrong guy taking the kick, who else at the time was thinking "Nooooooo, not Newnes"? His field kicking is very ordinary including missing an absolute sitter on the run, directly in front from about 25m out in the third quarter.

Freo had lots of blokes out, but so did we.....Curnow, McGovern, Cunningham, Martin, Kreuzer, Pittonet, Silvagni, Newman, Marchbank. Not all would demand a spot but having them all available would be handy.

For mine, TDK plays every game from here on in. He just looks so good....very athletic. He'll have his work cut out this week against Witts with his size, but hopefully TDK can run off him and get up and down the ground and expose Witts' lack of pace.

The decision to give the ball to Newnes backfired on the ump  badly as the guy who should have taken it was Gibbons who is a good kick and one who the ump didn't want taking it. 😈😉

We deserved to win this win about as much as we did last week.

The only difference is, that a real side would have put Freo away with 10 minutes to go when we kicked all those behinds.

we really failed to pile on the scoring when we needed to, which made it much closer than it should have been.

Freo were crap.  They got 2 free goals from non existant frees, and the final free kick was the karma bus hitting them, not us getting one we were owed.  We bank the 4 points, and that game was almost as dissapointing as the Hawthorn game for mine.

IMHO, we need to start taking our chances, and the magnifying glass needs to be on Cripps for his ability to take a regulation shot for goal, and impersonate Levi from a few years back when he was as unreliable as a broken watch.

Bit similar to Brisbane. Their kicking at goal is terrible at times. Kept North in a game they were dominating. Easiest 1pt win i've seen (North did kick the last one after the siren).

Moral of that story is to finish your work off so as not to make life as hard as possible for yourself. We are winning regularly but we are experts at making life so hard for ourselves on a weekly basis whether it's poor disposal, poor kicking at goal or allowing big swings when we are in control.

Yes, the ignorance of the media and Freo supporter base is exposed by questioning why Gibbon's wasn't the kicker, he's along with McGovern probably our two best set shots in that situation.

The moment after it came off Newnes boot, long before it reached the goal line, they wanted the kick to go somebody else! :D

But I have to wonder, in the moments beforehand, if they were hoping that it wasn't given to Gibbons, they probably laughed until Newnes flushed it! Then it was probably, how did that bloke get it, did they even know his name? ::)

I reckon Newnes could take that shot another 100 times and probably never kick it again....that said, he got the one that mattered.

Gibbons looked like he was disappointed not to get the kick.
He thought he could slot it :D

Gibbons looked like he was disappointed not to get the kick.
He thought he could slot it :D

Absolutely. He's been good in that regard.

Does anyone else think Cripps look sore? I mean he's looked sore all year. Massive bandage on his knee and sore back. May be making excuses but he clearly looks sore to me.

Maybe he's simply burdened by the expectation he's placed upon himself in the role of skipper? And maybe he's working through that as his form has definitely improved and is closer to what we all know and he, no doubt, expects.

Gibbons looked like he was disappointed not to get the kick.
He thought he could slot it :D

I'd back Gibbons in from there most nights.

But....it was late in the game, with a wet-ish ball.
TBH, i don't think he'd make the distance from there.....knowing you'd need to kick it 50+ to clear the players on the line.

With Newnes.....i said that "he usually kicks as a goal a game and hasn't done it yet.....he knows how to kick a goal, but he isn't the greatest kick around the ground."
Thank f*ck it was a shot on goal he was taking!

We deserved to win this win about as much as we did last week.

The only difference is, that a real side would have put Freo away with 10 minutes to go when we kicked all those behinds.

we really failed to pile on the scoring when we needed to, which made it much closer than it should have been.

Carbon copy of Port game, roles reversed.

They peppered the scoreboard, but couldn't find the big ones until after it mattered. We should've been put away before then. Almost lucky to make it that far.

Only difference was, we got screwed over in front of goal in both games.......got a bonus on the freo game at the end though.

Interesting stats, we certainly up the ante after qtr time
CARLTON'S REVIVAL
                                                   Q1   Q2-Q4
Disposal diff                             -18   +30
Contested possession diff      -5   +23
Ground ball diff                         -4   +25
Inside 50 diff                              -11   +10
Scoreboard diff                           -19   +23
Point from turnover diff             -13   +14

I didn't give Newness a hope in he'll of kicking that. I had already accepted the loss.

He's been wearing that knee bandage for years now so hard to tell. You can see cupping marks under his jumper but I recall seeing those last year so again, hard to tell. I just reckon he is trying to too hard. I cant remember who made the comment on TV or radio but they compared Fyfe and Cripps playing style. Fyfe sits off the contest at a ball up then moves in hitting it on the move. Cripps sits under it more and gets belted as soon as he wins it. As Diesel also said on SEN, he loves the physical contact but too much. Needs to sit off it a little more and minimise the hits.

Watched him closely on Saturday night and he was really laboring when running. Could be groin issues which might make senses as he is not getting any penetration with his kicking. They are more going up higher than longer, which may make sense of why he may of tried to run around 3 players in a previous game a few weeks ago when taking a set shot from 50.

Watched him closely on Saturday night and he was really laboring when running. Could be groin issues which might make senses as he is not getting any penetration with his kicking. They are more going up higher than longer, which may make sense of why he may of tried to run around 3 players in a previous game a few weeks ago when taking a set shot from 50.

Reported a month ago that Cripps had an injured sternum.

I think i recall him having potential quad issue at one stage too.
Whether its knee, groin, quad or whatever......he has never been a confident kick. Especially from 50. He lacks penetration from set shots.

Reported a month ago that Cripps had an injured sternum.

I think i recall him having potential quad issue at one stage too.
Whether its knee, groin, quad or whatever......he has never been a confident kick. Especially from 50. He lacks penetration from set shots.

Im no goal kicking expert but his preparation/routine is all over the place like a mad womans s...

I didn't give Newness a hope in he'll of kicking that. I had already accepted the loss.

Same, we were watching it and my daughter says "Do you reckon he'll kick it" to which I replied "not a hope in hell, we dont pinch games after the siren". Happy to be proven wrong, best win in a very long time.

In a nothing season, that result meant something.

Don't understand the Weitering criticism floating around, excluding two seriously dud umpiring decisions, and one shocking toe stub kick, I reckon he got the better of his opponent!

btw. What is it with these big FFs not having to face the football in those one on one battles, is this a new rule? That is two games, this one against Freo and the Aints game, that a resting ruckmen/FF has basically turned their back to the ball and thrown our KPD to the ground while the ball is 30m away and not been penalised!

Re: FF antics
I've been wondering that too. No idea what's going on 🙁

Must say, deeply impressed with Newnes’ composure, didn’t think he had that in him ; and I mean taking his time, making sure the cameraman moved and then still made a fuss to move the security guy and his darn cables. Very impressive.

Also note Eddie came up to both Jones & Newnes -
Leadership.

Must say, deeply impressed with Newnes’ composure, didn’t think he had that in him ; and I mean taking his time, making sure the cameraman moved and then still made a fuss to move the security guy and his darn cables. Very impressive.

Also note Eddie came up to both Jones & Newnes -
Leadership.

Yes. Newnes took it on like a professional. Prepare the site. Unload the tools, and get the job done. As it turned out, Eddie and the crew gave him a hand with the clean up 😄

I think Newnes may well come out of his shell now.

His better years at St K. saw him average 23 disposals a game. Thus far with us, averaging 11.

Im no goal kicking expert but his preparation/routine is all over the place like a mad womans s...

Holy mackerel, not since my Navy days have I heard that expression...  :)

I think Newnes may well come out of his shell now.

His better years at St K. saw him average 23 disposals a game. Thus far with us, averaging 11.

Hard to compare at the moment.  I think games are on average about 20 mins shorter, which results in almost one quarter less.

Game styles differ a little at the minute too, where teams are going faster which results in less chains of posession and longer kicks into the forward line.

Still, lets hope you are right.

I think Newnes may well come out of his shell now.

His better years at St K. saw him average 23 disposals a game. Thus far with us, averaging 11.

I still have painful memories of him kicking goals against us for the Saints.

I still have painful memories of him kicking goals against us for the Saints.

As Kruddler said originally, he averaged 20 possies at the Saints and was a consistent performer, he wasnt recruited to
be a star or win games with us just buy some time while the likes of Obrien, Dow, Philp, Ramsay developed and forced him out of the team. So far its job done for Newnes, he was a slow starter but added some goals to his game which has made him handy.
My son inlaw to be is a mad Saints fan and wasnt a fan of Newnes but said the one thing he does do well is kick goals from set shots as he has a decent kicking action.

As Kruddler said originally, he averaged 20 possies at the Saints and was a consistent performer, he wasnt recruited to
be a star or win games with us just buy some time while the likes of Obrien, Dow, Philp, Ramsay developed and forced him out of the team. So far its job done for Newnes, he was a slow starter but added some goals to his game which has made him handy.
My son inlaw to be is a mad Saints fan and wasnt a fan of Newnes but said the one thing he does do well is kick goals from set shots as he has a decent kicking action.

Good stuff. The positive in Newnes' game -- even before the winning goal last game -- is his ability to drift forward and kick goals. When he drifts into defence he's a liability, on the wing he's serviceable. Another plus is that he seems to be popular amongst the boys. However, the time will come, hopefully sooner rather than later, that he'll be replaced by a youngster who's much better.

As Kruddler said originally, he averaged 20 possies at the Saints and was a consistent performer, he wasnt recruited to
be a star or win games with us just buy some time while the likes of Obrien, Dow, Philp, Ramsay developed and forced him out of the team. So far its job done for Newnes, he was a slow starter but added some goals to his game which has made him handy.
My son inlaw to be is a mad Saints fan and wasnt a fan of Newnes but said the one thing he does do well is kick goals from set shots as he has a decent kicking action.

Initially he was more of a midfielder.
He was moved more to HFF and thats where his goal kicking became notable.
We appear to be playing him as a winger with a license to drift forward....and its working. He's hitting the scoreboard.

As Kruddler said originally, he averaged 20 possies at the Saints and was a consistent performer, he wasnt recruited to
be a star or win games with us just buy some time while the likes of Obrien, Dow, Philp, Ramsay developed and forced him out of the team. So far its job done for Newnes, he was a slow starter but added some goals to his game which has made him handy.
My son inlaw to be is a mad Saints fan and wasnt a fan of Newnes but said the one thing he does do well is kick goals from set shots as he has a decent kicking action.

He's been ok without setting the world on fire. 9 goals from 11 games is ok for a Carlton player, a tad over 11 disposals a game is below average I'm guessing for a player of his experience and the position/role he plays. 12 disposals and 1 goal like he did v Freo wouldnt cut it for very long, he did however lay 8 tackles which I like. His goal was the match winner and may have saved him for another week. I am abit meh towards him if I'm being honest.

Initially he was more of a midfielder.
He was moved more to HFF and thats where his goal kicking became notable.
We appear to be playing him as a winger with a license to drift forward....and its working. He's hitting the scoreboard.

Re: Newnes
There's reason for a tad of optimism there.
Identifying a players strengths and weaknesses, then playing him to team advantage. I recall many posts suggesting we've done quite the opposite in past years.

Re: Newnes
There's reason for a tad of optimism there.
Identifying a players strengths and weaknesses, then playing him to team advantage. I recall many posts suggesting we've done quite the opposite in past years.

The above was how the saints used him.
We are just copying them. ;)

Interesting stats, we certainly up the ante after qtr time
CARLTON'S REVIVAL
                                                   Q1   Q2-Q4
Disposal diff                             -18   +30
Contested possession diff      -5   +23
Ground ball diff                         -4   +25
Inside 50 diff                              -11   +10
Scoreboard diff                           -19   +23
Point from turnover diff             -13   +14

Looked like one of our wonderful first qtrs we've been known and loved for...lol.

Looked like one of our wonderful first qtrs we've been known and loved for...lol.

Yes, but to their credit, they adjusted and got on top of the Dockers for 3 qtrs. We just couldnt score...again. Which raises another point, I have heard a guy called Craig Jennings a few times on SEN who comes on and gives his 10 cents worth a "Strategy Coach". Very good to listen to and he was saying how the Accuracy in front of goal is factor numero uno for success in shortened games and seasons. We are a repeat offenders with this, some of our misses are unforgivable and are resulting in losses which will bite us on the ass.

Same, we were watching it and my daughter says "Do you reckon he'll kick it" to which I replied "not a hope in hell, we dont pinch games after the siren". Happy to be proven wrong, best win in a very long time.

Easy peasy! I would've turned around, done a check side drop kick over my head between the two big sticks with my eyes shut, post high, and while tangled in all those cables. Newnes effort was just basic...lol!!!

Anyone believe me?

Easy peasy! I would've turned around, done a check side drop kick over my head between the two big sticks with my eyes shut, post high, and while tangled in all those cables. Newnes effort was just basic...lol!!!

Anyone believe me?

Ummm, with all due respect, no. ;D  ;D

The above was how the saints used him.
We are just copying them. ;)

Didn't I read one of his early interviews that stated one of the reasons for coming to us was because the Aints pigeon-holed him as a small defender(HBF/BP) and he wanted to spend more time forward?

Didn't I read one of his early interviews that stated one of the reasons for coming to us was because the Aints pigeon-holed him as a small defender(HBF/BP) and he wanted to spend more time forward?

Reckon I read that also.

Reckon I read that also.

Me too!

Newnes didn’t want to be a HBF.

Didn't I read one of his early interviews that stated one of the reasons for coming to us was because the Aints pigeon-holed him as a small defender(HBF/BP) and he wanted to spend more time forward?

They moved him forward....he got injured....they tried to 'rebadge him' because they had enough forwards and he thought it best to reinvigorate his career elsewhere. (Think Laidler)

They moved him forward....he got injured....they tried to 'rebadge him' because they had enough forwards and he thought it best to reinvigorate his career elsewhere. (Think Laidler)

He started off as a HBF, he was considered too small/light to be a midfielder alongside Montagna, Geary, Hayes, Fisher, etc., etc.., so they played him in a Simmo type role. Until about 2016 they split his time between the HBF and the Wing, it was 2017 when they put him in the leadership group that he got his desire to run regularly in the midfield. But he was still squarely known by Aints fans as a wingman until the day he left!

Right up to the point he requested a trade it was reported that "Wingman Jack Newnes had been left out of the 2020 leadership group!"

He started off as a HBF, he was considered too small/light to be a midfielder alongside Montagna, Geary, Hayes, Fisher, etc., etc.., so they played him in a Simmo type role. Until about 2016 they split his time between the HBF and the Wing, it was 2017 when they put him in the leadership group that he got his desire to run regularly in the midfield. But he was still squarely known by Aints fans as a wingman until the day he left!

Right up to the point he requested a trade it was reported that "Wingman Jack Newnes had been left out of the 2020 leadership group!"

All of that is true, but there is more to that.

Look at his stats..
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jack_Newnes.html

Have a look at averages and goals kicked.
Not the difference between 2017 and 2018.
He got injured in the pre-season. As a result, his fitness was not up to scratch, so he spent more time forward than in the midfield.
His disposals dropped, his goals went up.
The next year was when he started getting moved around and when things went sour. He thought he'd proven that despite not being fit, he proved he could play up forward. Saints wanted otherwise. So he left.