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Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #30 –
The good:
Cottrell's first game, deserves to play next week, his turn of speed will be something special.
TDK. His 2nd qtr against NN was something for us all to get excited about.
Zachery's return. Should be a small forward for a while, quick reflexes, opportunistic goals and good defensive pressure.
Kennedy. Especially his first half. Imposed himself and took strong grabs. Coming along nicely.
Setters coming along nicely.
Walsh. Has shaken off the 2nd year blues very nicely.
Willo. Still a little fumbly, perhaps lacking a little confidence but improving slowly but surely.

The bad:
Again with the 4-7 goal turnaround, FFS. This time it was 30 pts. Sheesh, opposition sides will be scheduling their 4-7 goal run-on against us. I was deeply concerned when I saw the human Valium, Barker, talking with the mids at half time. And we started the 3rd without the intensity and tackling desperation of the first half... and this let the Weagles have a sniff.
Losing Martin.

So so:
Still not sold on Newnes.
Sammo gets dragged deep into defence and then he's rooted. Further up the ground... dangerous.
Murphy. Gets plenty and gave his all today but his occasional short steps and inability to really hurt opponents with his possessions is now an issue. Surely must retire and not get a contract renewal.
Crippa - take a deep breath and delegate, share the load. Oh, and let's take our time when shooting for goal and that missed mark... gulp, we looked a little nervous and didn't attack the aggott to ensure we marked it.

More bad:
You will seldom hear anything about umpires from me but who the fck is umpire 22? Appalling.
I repeat... the 4-7 goal opposition run-ons. FFS

Ps When we learn to sustain our best, our tenacity re tackling, we will beat anyone, anywhere.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #31 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
SPS is too inconsistent with his attack on the ball and for every tackle he lays the opposition break the next one or he just doesn't go hard enough. Down back that's a problem, prefer him up the ground in the Midfield. Cotterell has a light body but gives chasing, tackling 110% everytime and you know he will contest well, that's all I want from SPS.
Agree.  SPS also can be very lackadaisical with his disposal resulting in often damaging turnovers at critical times. In defensive situations we just can't afford these. I noticed 2 or 3 today.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #32 –
We're bit depleted. gave a good account of ourselves against the possible flag favorite but we ran out of puff in the end. We've shown we can take on the best and match them, even beat them but in-game consistency is our big issue. Suppose it happens when you're building but it's something for the pre-season big time. We have to be able to close a game down when the other side has momentum. We're 4-6, what could we have been but for that. At the end of round 10 we were equal leaders with Port and Brisbane for qtrs won. Makes the in-game inconsistency stand out more.

Next 2 games we have to win just to show we've made great gains. 6-6 would be a decent outcome.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #33 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Plowman should be dropped for agreeing with that umpire. We had two up the other end where they picked the ball up and tried to fend off.

What Plowman did today typifies our culture.    Weak, Submissive.   While I compliment him for his game today btw, the team continues to show why it cannot ever become anything of substance in it's current form.  To hear Teauges presser today was to think if you hadn't seen the game, that we'd won.  He spoke of 'growth' etc.  Sounds like a Boltonism.   The truth is , yet again, and it doesn't matter WHO we play btw... because we do it again MOST sides, we go to pieces when the pressure comes and we don't know how to win.  Not enough blokes either want to, or have the capabilities to die for it.  The coach has no idea how to stop a run of goals, and this is reasonable given he is ANOTHER first year coach.  I am mentally torn apart by what this club does to it's supporters year after year and soon enough will be enough.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #34 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Looks injured, not moving that freely and felt for the ball when he had a chance to mark it which is unlike him to lack intensity. His confidence is down, all the tagging and crap he has copped is taking its toll. Yeo is a tough opponent but he just looks off and I'd be tempted to rest him.

He is 'banged up' physically and mentally from copping all the losses that we have endured over the past 5 years.  I think he actually may have 'jibbed it' today in the 3rd quarter when we could have gone 27 points up had he taken a mark in front of goal.  If he didn't jib it, and I honestly hope he didn't, his legs couldn't get there.  Either way it was an incident that made me vomit. 

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #35 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Agree.  SPS also can be very lackadaisical with his disposal resulting in often damaging turnovers at critical times. In defensive situations we just can't afford these. I noticed 2 or 3 today.
SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Baggers on
The good:
Cottrell's first game, deserves to play next week, his turn of speed will be something special.
TDK. His 2nd qtr against NN was something for us all to get excited about.
Zachery's return. Should be a small forward for a while, quick reflexes, opportunistic goals and good defensive pressure.
Kennedy. Especially his first half. Imposed himself and took strong grabs. Coming along nicely.
Setters coming along nicely.
Walsh. Has shaken off the 2nd year blues very nicely.
Willo. Still a little fumbly, perhaps lacking a little confidence but improving slowly but surely.

The bad:
Again with the 4-7 goal turnaround, FFS. This time it was 30 pts. Sheesh, opposition sides will be scheduling their 4-7 goal run-on against us. I was deeply concerned when I saw the human Valium, Barker, talking with the mids at half time. And we started the 3rd without the intensity and tackling desperation of the first half... and this let the Weagles have a sniff.
Losing Martin.

So so:
Still not sold on Newnes.
Sammo gets dragged deep into defence and then he's rooted. Further up the ground... dangerous.
Murphy. Gets plenty and gave his all today but his occasional short steps and inability to really hurt opponents with his possessions is now an issue. Surely must retire and not get a contract renewal.
Crippa - take a deep breath and delegate, share the load. Oh, and let's take our time when shooting for goal and that missed mark... gulp, we looked a little nervous and didn't attack the aggott to ensure we marked it.

The bad:
You will seldom hear anything about umpires from me but who the fck is umpire 22? Appalling.
I repeat... the 4-7 goal run-ons. FFS

Ps When we learn to sustain our best, our tenacity re tackling, we will beat anyone, anywhere.


The human vallium, Barker...great call.  This guy is one of the cornerstones of our 'losing culture'  and must go at the end of the year.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Micky0 on
I was pretty proud to be honest. 

We were missing MCG, Harry, Martin from the first quarter. 

Thought the new boys did really well.  Love watching Cottrell run, lightning. And he seems to have a little Robbo about him, not taking a backward step. TDK wasn’t overawed at all, and is exciting to think of his future.

Thought that team played Pretty well, ran out of gas in the third when their big bodies smashing into us made us lose steam.

Don’t really get the hate for Murph, some of his handballs were bullets.  He can’t tackle though can he. Hm.

Thought Samo was great? He threw himself where was needed, sure he made a few errors but those HTB were bullcrap.

Cripps seems to be struggling - a few costly errors.

Nice to see Fish back.  And Kennedy was strong and brave.

I’m entirely sick of people saying the umpiring doesn’t matter.  It really does.  They continuously dropped the balls when he tackled, and it was play on.  The HTB was the most disgraceful decision. What was the 50 for? As said, NicNat was caught in front of our goals exactly the same, play on.   GTFO.  My logical mind says there can be no bias, umpires don’t care who wins. But this happens time and time again.

My thoughts exactly Micky.
Well said.
Take away the "x" home game advantage and player 23 #22, and our boys would have given this a right shake. Would, should, could... I know. My view stands our performance was solid. 
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #38 –
With the limitations on our list at the moment, we should be pretty happy. I'm not. I hate losing and we've had enough losing.

[1] We need to rest Cripps. Cripps had 8 clearances, 8 tackles, 19 possessions and is mistreated every week. That might not be his greatest form, but do we have anyone better to take his place?
I would really love to able to rest Cripps for a few weeks, to get his head right, to get his body right, to get his kicking for goal straightened out. Last year his goal kicking was much better than it has been at any time this year. His kicking is general has been considerably shorter, one of the reasons why I think he is not 100% fit. But, for God sake, look at what he does. He is still one of the clearance kings of the AFL even as he is.

[2] Our forward line. It has not been at its best this year, but no forward line has been. Many games have scores for entire games that used to be common in the first quarters.
(a) We are missing Harry McKay, Jack Silvagni, Charlie Curnow and Mitch McGovern: 4 of our 5 key forward options. We haven't had all of them available at any time this season. All of them have had form and/or injury issues.
The only taller forward we have had for the whole season is Levi Casboult and he has generally been playing well.
(b) Our small forwards have done better this year. Jack Martin has been an excellent pickup, and while his kicking for goal has been ordinary, he has provided us with the sort of thing we have needed for years.
Eddie Betts a cult hero, but even he is struggling for goals. Good as he is, he is much closer to his coaching career to kicking 70+ goals in a season again.
The rest have been mids passing through, like Gibbons, etc.
We caught the Weagles out with Fisher today and he proved good value. having seen that, I do not expect Fisher to kick many goals next round. I would put him on the ball or on the wing. He is unlikely to be able repeat his performance, but he could be very useful in another role, because he is a good player.
I would be tempted to play Honey forward next week. With Martin out, we have very little to lose in trying him out.
(c) Our rucks: in case you do not remember, Matthew Kreuzer, our best ruckman, was injured in Rd 1 and is unlikely to play this season. that takes a hell of a lot out of our midfield. When Kreuzer plays well, we usually win.
We have been very lucky that Pittonet has played as well as he has. I didn't think he had it in him, but he proved me wrong. But he is limited as a ruckman. The top rucks crap on him. We tried de Koning today and he looks to have a future, even with the mistakes he made in the last quarter.
But we are a long way behind in this department. Remember that. We do not yet have the ruck to win a premiership: Kreuzer may well be done, Pittonet is a good trier and de Koning isn't ready yet.
I'd be playing de Koning, especially in the next few weeks. He can only benefit from the experience.
{d) Our other mids are not dominating games. Not one of them. Cripps has been down and looks injured. The rest are trying to make a mark, and have improved a lot, but are not top mids yet. Nor do I know if they will ever be A-class mids. I think we could well do in poaching a top mid from another club.
Even with our mids not getting superior numbers, our clearances have generally been more effective this year. But we really need more of that and guys with some experience to stand up.
(e) Negative players: This is one of our biggest weaknesses. We have one, repeat ONE, player who can cut our star opposition mids. We need to be able to keep more of them out of the game, lest we get run over by 2nd raters like Sheed. We need to stop their best  getting the ball and we can't.
(f) Our defence has been quite good this year, although it hasn't delivered as much run as it has in the past. Docherty started off providing it, but opposition clubs have woken up to that and have curbed his influence. Simmo is not getting any younger, although  he is still going strong. Newman will miss the entire season, after providing huge amounts of run last year.
Weitering is defending beautifully, but not producing much drive and Jones has not been able to produce the drive he has in the last either.
SPS and Willo have been decent defenders, without setting the world on fire.
As teams appear to have 'worked out' our defence, I would be changing it. Cottell played well enough today. Give him a few games. Move SPS and Docherty into our centre square mix. Give them jobs and see how much run they can provide.

[3] In many ways we are very predictable in our setup. I would like to change this. I do not want opposition teams to know where our guys are going to play. This sort of thing can work, especially if it ruins opposition matchups. It worked today with Fisher.

Our list has been ravaged. It was badly damaged before we started with 4 players, 3 of our best, not being there at all. Take out 3 top players from any team and see how they handle it. Most do not.
Then take out our forward half and expect us to kick 100 points every week.
We were on a hiding to nothing when the season started. We have done better than I expected. We have beaten good teams and scared all of our opponents. That isn't bad for half a team.

There are things I would like to see from our recruiters, our coaches and our fitness people over the break:
<1> Get our whole list available. teams like Brisbane are good because they have their best players week after week.
<2> Get our coaching staff to be more adaptable. Make changes during the game. Mix the roles around. try players elsewhere if they are having a bad day. get them to play 4 quarters instead of 2 to 3.
<3> Get the sort of players we need to improve our list, by hook or by crook. We need to find the next top ruckman and get him into our colours. We need to get a top mid from elsewhere. We need to recruit like St. Kilda did last year: note where we were less than perfect and recruit to fix those problems.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #39 –
Quote from: LP on
Shuey, low impact, accidental, careless, no fine, play on!

Those types of acts were repeated throughout. Collectively with a little help from #22, and the game is won or lost. Seriously 😠

Maybe we need a consultant to help us play on the edge. If that's what that behavior is called.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Inboltswetrust on

I didnt want to use the word " jibbed " with Cripps because he isnt a repeat offender and is a brave player but all players go through a period when they lack confidence and what normally comes naturally like attacking the ball can become a thought process and he had his doubts in that marking attempt and didnt go hard enough.
Reckon you wont see that ever again...

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Baggers on
The good:
Cottrell's first game, deserves to play next week, his turn of speed will be something special.
TDK. His 2nd qtr against NN was something for us all to get excited about.
Zachery's return. Should be a small forward for a while, quick reflexes, opportunistic goals and good defensive pressure.
Kennedy. Especially his first half. Imposed himself and took strong grabs. Coming along nicely.
Setters coming along nicely.
Walsh. Has shaken off the 2nd year blues very nicely.
Willo. Still a little fumbly, perhaps lacking a little confidence but improving slowly but surely.

The bad:
Again with the 4-7 goal turnaround, FFS. This time it was 30 pts. Sheesh, opposition sides will be scheduling their 4-7 goal run-on against us. I was deeply concerned when I saw the human Valium, Barker, talking with the mids at half time. And we started the 3rd without the intensity and tackling desperation of the first half... and this let the Weagles have a sniff.
Losing Martin.

So so:
Still not sold on Newnes.
Sammo gets dragged deep into defence and then he's rooted. Further up the ground... dangerous.
Murphy. Gets plenty and gave his all today but his occasional short steps and inability to really hurt opponents with his possessions is now an issue. Surely must retire and not get a contract renewal.
Crippa - take a deep breath and delegate, share the load. Oh, and let's take our time when shooting for goal and that missed mark... gulp, we looked a little nervous and didn't attack the aggott to ensure we marked it.

The bad:
You will seldom hear anything about umpires from me but who the fck is umpire 22? Appalling.
I repeat... the 4-7 goal run-ons. FFS

Ps When we learn to sustain our best, our tenacity re tackling, we will beat anyone, anywhere.

Cotterell was a big plus. I already knew TDK was going to be a player but did not realise how good Cotterell was. Didn't look at all out of place and kept his opponent very quiet for most of the game.

Love to see young players coming good.

Not sure why we don't play Gibbo in the middle a bit more. Our better performances seem to correlate to him spending more time on the ball from memory.

Kennedy is becoming a serious player. Love his marking - even pulls in some pack marks. He's developing so quickly.

Setterfield was good again - died out of it a bit later but who didn't.

We miss Charlie and Harry... so much. Marchbank, Kreuzer, MM, Newman, Cunners, Dow, SOS, etc. How good would it be to be playing that mob on our own home ground with every umpiring decision going our way and a fit list???

Worth noting they're premiership favourites on their own dung hill with only 1 injury and dominated inside 50s and we lost the guy who's probably top 3 in our B&F for most of the game. They always seemed to have 2 loose behind the ball and in the end the completely one sided umpiring took its toll.

I love Teague but hate that he's too nice to say anything in the media about that umpiring. In the last quarter Casboult lays a big tackle in our forward line. The WC player just lays there not moving. Makes less of an effort than Samo did - ball up. Just one of many instances.

I am generally in the anti-Murphy camp but I guess I've accepted that he just can't tackle and now I barely notice him.

Plowman was actually quite good today. We need a lot more pace off our half back line. They're all slow.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Inboltswetrust on
SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.
Quote from: Inboltswetrust on
SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.
Quote from: Inboltswetrust on
SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

Sorry, no squibs play AFL. I’ll show you a dozen times a game that he puts his body where most of us ( including yourself) would think twice. We can accuse players of plenty, they may not go 100% one hundred percent of the time...... but they aren’t squibs.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #43 –
Quote from: Inboltswetrust on
SPS is one of our biggest drafting mistakes of this so-called 'rebuild'.  A number 6 pick, has no leg speed, totally Jibbs and hates contested situations and rollicks around like a millionaire trying to bite of unneccesary kicks.  If we can get anything for this squib he should be traded at the end of the year.

Sorry but that's just a silly comment.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #44 –
SPS has played some ordinary footy at times and still turns the ball over a bit too much for such a talented player but I don't know how anyone could choose him to single out after today's game. I thought he was pretty good today.