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Around The Grounds => The Sports Desk => Topic started by: capcom on December 18, 2020, 06:49:58 pm

Title: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 18, 2020, 06:49:58 pm
Is our batting as weak as ... or what.  We'll end up losing this. >:D
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 18, 2020, 10:21:21 pm
Didn't pick openers.
Marnus and Smith mentally absent. No lead up long form cricket.
Head is a crab.
Don't expect anything from a debutant.

Absences haven't helped but selectors should be on notice. Expecting Burns to magically turn it around was la la stuff.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 18, 2020, 11:01:57 pm
Got lucky the Indian fielding is park standard else we would be a long way behind, India helped us out by picking Shaw and Saha and we are still struggling. Fighting knock from Paine but its a fragile middle order when Smith doesnt make runs.
Need 5 wickets real early as India have a long tail without Pant at 7...any lead over 250 is going to be tough for our batters to make IMO.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: crashlander on December 19, 2020, 09:14:25 am
I think both sides have forgotten that dominating the bowling is the best way to stay in.
Our batters really need to lift their game.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2020, 09:57:34 am
At least there'll be a result.  Badly missing Warner and why Joe Burns still gets a game is beyond me.  At least India have a very long tail
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 19, 2020, 12:57:26 pm
I don't understand the political correctness of modern cricket.

We had half a dozen overs at Bumrah under lights on a bouncy track with a new ball. Back in Lillee or Thommo's day that was toe and finger breaking time, those guys didn't have to hit the tail end in the head to do damage!

Last night we basically bowled line and length and let Bumrah meekly defend with a dead bat on the front foot until stumps.

Alan Border must have been apoplectic as he thought back to what our tail end suffered facing the West Indies!

Modern professional sport is so different now, even football, the brutality remains but it is very different! I think it's a big reason why when you get a player like Hodge or Dangerfluff they stand out, because they don't hesitate to become all accidental knees and elbows!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Milhanna13 on December 19, 2020, 02:10:01 pm
I don't understand the political correctness of modern cricket.

We had half a dozen overs at Bumrah under lights on a bouncy track with a new ball. Back in Lillee or Thommo's day that was toe and finger breaking time, those guys didn't have to hit the tail end in the head to do damage!

Last night we basically bowled line and length and let Bumrah meekly defend with a dead bat on the front foot until stumps.

Alan Border must have been apoplectic as he thought back to what our tail end suffered facing the West Indies!

Modern professional sport is so different now, even football, the brutality remains but it is very different! I think it's a big reason why when you get a player like Hodge or Dangerfluff they stand out, because they don't hesitate to become all accidental knees and elbows!

Had a feeling that may have happened, after all the pregame love ins (kohli / smith “ur great, no ur great...).   Too much buddy, buddy in the IPL
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2020, 02:45:14 pm
Had a feeling that may have happened, after all the pregame love ins (kohli / smith “ur great, no ur great...).   Too much buddy, buddy in the IPL
Agree...the IPL has made us too matey with all those rupees on the line, India really rule the cricket world now and every other countries players are beholding to them.
We bounced Bumrah with so many half volleys it was his toes in danger not his head, our quicks have lost their nasty edge under Paine and we need to be more ruthless..we should have had men in at silly mid off/mid on, leg slip as well and worked the Indians over with the short stuff. Its the one area we have the advantage with quicker/taller bowlers. The drama of the pink ball in the evening air was non existent and apart from Cummins seaming a few there was zero swing to be had.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2020, 03:45:08 pm
6 /19 !!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: God help me
Post by: bricky on December 19, 2020, 04:20:41 pm
Now 9/31  Hazelwood 5 for 3
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 19, 2020, 06:55:53 pm
And just like that, fortunes change. That's why test cricket is the best form, always has been, always will be. Throw that other Mickey Mouse stuff in the bin.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2020, 07:07:03 pm
And just like that, fortunes change. That's why test cricket is the best form, always has been, always will be. Throw that other Mickey Mouse stuff in the bin.
Agree test cricket is the best but I reckon this Indian team might know a Indian/Paki bookmakers phone number better than their own average. Bowled out for 36?...something not right, Christmas came early for 11 blokes and they aint Aussies.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: rocky on December 19, 2020, 08:26:13 pm
And just like that, fortunes change. That's why test cricket is the best form, always has been, always will be. Throw that other Mickey Mouse stuff in the bin.
Could not agree more. Test cricket, Summer days with it just rolling along on the telly in the background while working on something in the backyard (like today). Stopping to take a look every now and then. End of the day sit down with a beer and watch some highlights. Love it.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2020, 09:22:00 pm
Some Indian internet sites are going after Ravi Shastri and Kohli big time. 

And yes, tests are head and shoulders over any other form of cricket by a huge margin

Still not sold on pink balls and day / nites though. 

Title: Re: God help me
Post by: DJC on December 20, 2020, 10:07:59 am
I was listening to the cricket in the car and India was 5 for when I got home.  I had to do a couple of things before I turned the TV on but, when I did, it was game over  :o

Watching the highlights suggested that it was some of the best pace bowling ever.  Sunny Gavaskar reckons that apart from Shaw, the batters really didn’t do a lot wrong; the bowling was just too good.

Have the Indians played Burns back into form?
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 20, 2020, 11:23:21 am
I was listening to the cricket in the car and India was 5 for when I got home.  I had to do a couple of things before I turned the TV on but, when I did, it was game over  :o

Watching the highlights suggested that it was some of the best pace bowling ever.  Sunny Gavaskar reckons that apart from Shaw, the batters really didn’t do a lot wrong; the bowling was just too good.

Have the Indians played Burns back into form?
Not sure I agree with Sunny...Kholi's dismissal was a very soft shot, he guided it very nicely to the fielder...
I just dont trust teams from the continent and IMO the bowling was good but not that good to get bowled out for 36.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 20, 2020, 11:49:05 am
There are rumours floating around today that if NSW do not get to COVID zero before New Years they are pulling the pin on the Sydney test, CA have offered them a no crowd lock out but the BCCI aren't interested!

To me if it's true it sounds more like a way to get out of a losing series than a genuine concern, surely the BCCI wouldn't behave that way! :o
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 21, 2020, 09:23:16 am
All the damage occurred during the daylight on a good pitch, so nobody can bitch about pink balls and heavy night air yada yada.

Damage seemed to be caused by the ball decking away, which caused a lot of edges from balls that had to be played due to perfect line and length.   Seems that these blokes have learnt how to consistently bowl subtle leg cutters, a master level bowling skill.

A absolute master class in line,  length and subtle movement, the footage will be a coaching tool.   Move it too much and it looks great but misses edges.  Move it 2-3" and it's deadly.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 21, 2020, 10:54:51 am
I notice The Hun publishing more rubbish about the MCG Pitch being no good, boring, etc., etc., with alleged calls from Cummins and Hazelwood for a competitive pitch.

Except there have only been 2 drawn MCG Boxing Day tests in the last 22 years!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day_Test#List_of_Boxing_Day_Test_matches

Perhaps this is getting in early in case the Sydney test turns sour!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 21, 2020, 12:40:13 pm
Gotta keep the BCCI happy
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 21, 2020, 12:47:34 pm
It makes perfect sense to do it though.  Should have two pitches ready to go.  No SYD HBA yacht race, no Test?  Good.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 21, 2020, 12:55:28 pm
It makes perfect sense to do it though.  Should have two pitches ready to go.  No SYD HBA yacht race, no Test?  Good.
I fell a bit sorry for the yacht people, not that we should feel sorry for those wealthy enough to participate, but because their situation is untenable.

No matter how slight the risk you can't have a $50M super-maxi surfing down the East Coast like a Ganges Death Barge!

At this stage, the Sydney Test proceeding in Sydney seems like the oddity, pretty tough for the McGrath Foundation!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 21, 2020, 01:16:51 pm
I fell a bit sorry for the yacht people, not that we should feel sorry for those wealthy enough to participate, but because their situation is untenable.

No matter how slight the risk you can't have a $50M super-maxi surfing down the East Coast like a Ganges Death Barge!

At this stage, the Sydney Test proceeding in Sydney seems like the oddity, pretty tough for the McGrath Foundation!
Wealthy they might be, but its all relatiive, I still feel sorry for them as they have invested time and money only to be told at the vinegar stroke to pull out.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 21, 2020, 09:51:51 pm
Wealthy they might be, but its all relatiive, I still feel sorry for them as they have invested time and money only to be told at the vinegar stroke to pull out.
Worse for the tassie business folk who depend on that money, Yachties are big drinkers and spenders and its real bad for the local economy especially after the lockdowns with covid
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 22, 2020, 12:52:23 pm
Ian Chappell published an article demanding improved protection from umpires for tail-end batsmen who get peppered with short pitched bowling.

I found this a little unsavoury, I realise times change, but back in the day I suspect Chappelli would have been encouraging his bowlers more than perhaps any other Australian Test Cpt, and I've heard reports of such coming out of WSC around the time helmets first started being used.

Shami as the most recent example isn't much of a good one, in reality he only receive two short pitch deliveries if you can even call the one that got him short pitched, because he basically took his eye off it and ducked into it, it collected his arm below what would be waist height in his normal stance.

(https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5301.0;attach=954)
I often wonder where the bread is buttered when I read such an article!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 22, 2020, 01:50:16 pm
The idiot didn't even wear an arm guard
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 22, 2020, 02:55:08 pm
Agree Shami and other average batting bowlers need to wear arm guards, I think its up to the umpires to judge the situation and use common sense to determine what is intimidation rather than judge by the number of short balls per over.
Its a fact of life that if you come to Australia the pitches favour the the 6' 6" quick who can bang it in and you wont see much swing or spin but every other country also has their home conditions favouring their attack ie if you go to NZ the ball swings everywhere and we all know India doctor their wickets to favour spin and you can bang it in all day and you wont get it over stump height negating our quicks.
Players will get hit in Aus and in countries like South Africa who nurture big quicks so you need to bring your protective equipment and pick players who are equipped for the conditions.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: dodge on December 22, 2020, 03:27:58 pm
He was wearing an arm guard, just not on that arm.  I don't think I have ever seen an arm guard on both arms.

He played it so poorly that being hit was the only outcome.

Maybe players need to spend some time practicing evasive action.  (If it was me batting, I would have been on the ground at square leg before Cummins had let go of the ball!)
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 22, 2020, 04:27:20 pm
I suspect it's a symptom of T20, where the rules basically mean the batsmen moves about with impunity on dead flat lifeless bowling tracks, they may as well play on concrete.

So they get too comfortable not needing to deal with intimidating bowling.

Can you imagine these guys batting on a green top Gabba or WACA with Lillee and Thompson bowling, or worse still the same venue with Joel Garner or Andy Roberts?

(For the young'uns Roberts was scalpel precise and had more ways to harm a batsmen than The Surgeon of Crowthorne could describe. I think while most bowlers aimed for the head, Roberts picked out an eyebrow or earlobe!)
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 22, 2020, 04:31:46 pm

Can you imagine these guys batting on a green top Gabba or WACA with Lillee and Thompson bowling, or worse still the same venue with Joel Garner or Andy Roberts?

Apart from Smith, Payne and maybe Wade, the rest would fill their shorts. Chuck in Thommo and Michael Holding for good measure.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 22, 2020, 05:59:12 pm
Apart from Smith, Payne and maybe Wade, the rest would fill their shorts. Chuck in Thommo and Michael Holding for good measure.
Smith wouldnt know what hit him if he had the Windies quicks for company, no more deflecting through the leg side from outside off. The players who stood up vs the Windies all had short backlifts and were compact in defense like Laird, Border, S. Waugh etc....
Smith would get hit for sure IMO with his extravagant style, reckon Warner and Wade of the modern group would probably handle them best.....all be it briefly.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 22, 2020, 08:40:57 pm
Smith wouldnt know what hit him if he had the Windies quicks for company, no more deflecting through the leg side from outside off. The players who stood up vs the Windies all had short backlifts and were compact in defense like Laird, Border, S. Waugh etc....
Smith would get hit for sure IMO with his extravagant style, reckon Warner and Wade of the modern group would probably handle them best.....all be it briefly.
Warner? He's reminds me of the little dog who barks a lot but at the end of the day...
Smith would not die wondering, love his style.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 23, 2020, 08:36:11 am
I feel for Shami getting a busted arm (already had a compound fractured finger myself this season) but he played it horribly,  only result was getting stamped once he took his eyes off it. It was a disgrace to see a bloke being unable to defend himself batting,  almost negligent from India IMO.  WTF does he do in the nets,  feast on long hops and full bungers? 

My 13 y.o. daughter plays against seniors chucking it down at 130 + and even she knows to step back and inside the line,  we practice daily by pinging tennis balls at her throat.   She wears an arm guard when playing as a precaution and eventually she'll get hit (everyone does)  but at least she doesn't scuttle off to leg, that's the worst thing possible.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: northernblue on December 23, 2020, 09:30:39 am
I feel for Shami getting a busted arm (already had a compound fractured finger myself this season) but he played it horribly,  only result was getting stamped once he took his eyes off it. It was a disgrace to see a bloke being unable to defend himself batting,  almost negligent from India IMO.  WTF does he do in the nets,  feast on long hops and full bungers? 

My 13 y.o. daughter plays against seniors chucking it down at 130 + and even she knows to step back and inside the line,  we practice daily by pinging tennis balls at her throat.   She wears an arm guard when playing as a precaution and eventually she'll get hit (everyone does)  but at least she doesn't scuttle off to leg, that's the worst thing possible.

Stop treating her like a girl, time for some tough love mate...

😋
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 23, 2020, 10:10:32 am
They were truly frightening.  Colin Croft in particular, liked hurting batsmen.  
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 23, 2020, 10:14:45 am
My 13 y.o. daughter plays against seniors chucking it down at 130 + and even she knows to step back and inside the line,  we practice daily by pinging tennis balls at her throat.  She wears an arm guard when playing as a precaution and eventually she'll get hit (everyone does)  but at least she doesn't scuttle off to leg, that's the worst thing possible.
Yes, it's a great skill and good coaching, just a sway forward or backwards and you are out of harms way.

Before you know it things will click and she'll be putting them over the fence!

Years ago we would train the kids by having them wear a helmet, then underarm cricket balls at their head and have them head the pill away to the off or leg. It isn't harmful, and it develops timing and skill to deal with short stuff calmly, I've seen Kohli do the very same in a test match.

Here is the truth about short pitched bowling, but it assumes the pitch isn't dodgy which is a different issue of dangerous playing conditions. If I stood you or any other cricketer up at the stumps in the absence of a wicket keeper or batsmen, and asked the worlds fastest bowler to throw down a short pitched delivery at you. You can catch it, every time, it may sting the fingers but you can catch it, even if you get the world's fastest baseball pitcher to throw the pill at you from 20m away you can catch it, you'll get your hands on it 10 out of 10 and do so comfortably! The proof of this is in every quick single run out attempt when the fielder unleashes an on the run panicked red hot power throw to the bowlers end from half the pitch length away! Bowlers nearly always get hands on it, they might drop it often, but they just never cold miss it unless they think it might be a direct hit!

My associates and I have argued for some time that batsmen should be able to defend themselves with a gloved hand off the bat, still risking being caught off the gloves but not to be dismissed for handling the ball. It's a sensible application of the rules, you would find a lot of test level batsmen catching the pill in front of their face rather than being hit in the head! Let the umpires adjudicate what is a defensive action versus interference. If they palm the pill onto the wickets they are still out, but do not penalise them for successfully defending their head, and let the bowlers bowl short still as a tactic!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 23, 2020, 11:20:11 am
They were truly frightening.  Colin Croft in particular, liked hurting batsmen.  
Patrick Patterson was less known but a lot of batters of that era said he was the most dangerous... Easy to forget Marshall and then later Ambrose, it was a never ending line of quality quicks. Marshall gets forgotten but his record is sensational and while smaller in stature he was highly skilled and bowled players out rather than blasting them out.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: bratblue on December 23, 2020, 11:34:19 am
Patrick Patterson was less known but a lot of batters of that era said he was the most dangerous... Easy to forget Marshall and then later Ambrose, it was a never ending line of quality quicks. Marshall gets forgotten but his record is sensational and while smaller in stature he was highly skilled and bowled players out rather than blasting them out.

Watching live Marshalls run in was something to behold, very long and very very fast.  Then he would unleash the ball and you wouldn't see anything until the batsman hit it or the keeper caught it.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 23, 2020, 12:31:24 pm
The problem is that in the nets you know what's coming,  you don't during play.  It's the one out of the blue that gets you. 

The Windies were ruthless,  an attitude engendered by Chappell during their 1974 tour.

Patterson on a dodgy MCG pitch slaughtered Australia,  but that pitch was to put politely,  a mother*******. He was lightning fast,  longest run I've ever seen.   Didn't he play for Victoria as well?

Marshall and Roberts scared me the most,  viscous steep bounce off a length.   And Malcolm was what,  5' 10" and came off a short run,  the pace was incredible. Bet they fizzed like a circular saw as they flashed at your throat.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 23, 2020, 01:40:18 pm

Patterson on a dodgy MCG pitch slaughtered Australia,  but that pitch was to put politely,  a mother*******. He was lightning fast,  longest run I've ever seen.   Didn't he play for Victoria as well?

Tassie I think
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: DJC on December 26, 2020, 11:52:20 am
Have the Indians played Burns back into form?

I guess not 🙄
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 26, 2020, 01:09:15 pm
Is this the folly of an unchanged lineup?

This pitch is nothing like Adelaide and it is not a pink ball day night test, I suppose until we see both sides bat we won't know!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 26, 2020, 01:29:26 pm
Disappointing batting. Have they learnt the lessons from Adelaide? It appears not.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2020, 04:38:57 pm
Totally and f******g over this dumb f**k mindless batting.   Fair dinkum, how stupid are these blokes? Playing Ashwin like he's chucking grenades.    I hope Langer rips strips off this mob at the end of today's play.   If Smith gets himself out by hitting to short leg again I'd drop him.   He isn't learning.  Oh look,  Head makes 30 again.   Aaaaaaaaaargggh.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2020, 05:04:30 pm
How come the Indians are allowed to meander along at 11 overs an hour?  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on December 26, 2020, 05:06:14 pm
Very poor selection of strokes. A local under 12’s side would have made more on this pitch. Are these players professional and paid to bat? Wouldn’t think so by the display today. Lucky to even get close to 200. I thought they might not get a total of 100 at one stage. They can only hope the bowling isn’t as weak as the batting display.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2020, 05:48:19 pm
After his one glory ball Starc is bowling shyte
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 26, 2020, 07:16:03 pm
Utter crap >:(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 26, 2020, 07:48:59 pm
Utter crap >:(
To quote Black Adder, "... is like  Christmas Cracker. One disappointing bang and the novelty soon wears off."
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 26, 2020, 10:04:02 pm
How come the Indians are allowed to meander along at 11 overs an hour?
Barely much more with two spinners bowling!  >:(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 01:23:00 pm
**** off back to Queensland and take your mates in the selection panel with you Joe.

And burns a review needlessly.  God help us with these F tards supposedly calling themselves batsmen.  Burm's forward defence has more technical flaws than a bad legal argument. Why keep picking him Why !?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2020, 02:04:13 pm
**** off back to Queensland and take your mates in the selection panel with you Joe.

And burns a review needlessly.  God help us with these F tards supposedly calling themselves batsmen.  Burm's forward defence has more technical flaws than a bad legal argument. Why keep picking him Why !?!

He must NEVER play for Australia again.  And he won't
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2020, 02:52:21 pm
He must NEVER play for Australia again.  And he won't

Assuming the selectors pick the team on form and technique and not because of state of origin, friendship groups, unrealised potential and any other irrelevant criteria they may dream up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 28, 2020, 03:00:08 pm
He must NEVER play for Australia again.  And he won't
I would hope that's the last we see of him, horribly out of form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 04:51:35 pm
And "*ick" Head and join him.

Other than crap fielding and comic relief I don't know what he brings because he isn't a batsman a-hole.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 28, 2020, 05:03:14 pm
And "*ick" Head and join him.

Other than crap fielding and comic relief I don't know what he brings because he isn't a batsman a-hole.
Smith also appears to have got ahead of himself this summer.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2020, 05:16:44 pm
New Test caps on order. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 05:27:52 pm
Bumrah's back of the hand in swinging variation ball is a chuck.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 05:29:44 pm
I'd be checking the betting slips  after this game
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2020, 05:32:17 pm
I think the trouble is under Langer's guidance test spots are welded on!

A work associate was talking to a Sri Lankan cricketer a few weeks back, in town on domestic cricket contract. He mentioned the rest of the world are astounded Maxwell isn't playing Test cricket, guys like Maxwell only play one good innings in three but it's a match winner. Instead we have guys welded into the test squad failing match after match after match and getting another run because they are mates with some members of the squad!

I didn't realise being someone's best mate mattered!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2020, 05:41:21 pm
Out - Burns, Paine and Head

In - Warner, Carey and Maxwell

Captain - Wade

On the fatigue crap, I don't agree about the Indians pushing thought the same scenario, India is not in the same boat as other countries because the BCCI schedule IPL to disrupt other countries, not in respect of the established touring dates! India uses it's dollar$ to make other countries pay on the field, the BCCI mandates the Indian players get the IPL contract money whether they play IPL or not, international players have to play IPL to get paid. That is why Indian test players freely stand out of IPL and rest up!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2020, 06:31:10 pm
Green needs to learn how to play the short stuff better, ducking blokes who are bowling 135kmh on flat pitches is only going to lead to him being pinged by quicker bowlers. He also falls over to the offside and will be a LBW candidate when he gets to England and NZ. Burns is a hack and Head isnt much better, without Warner and Smith out of form the batting is very brittle.
India are twice the team with Jadeja and Pant in the lineup, cannot understand why they are in and out, ok Pant isnt the greatest keeper but his little batting cameo changed the game and Jadeja is just so handy with bat or ball and his fielding is elite.
Smith tired...maybe, or is his technique now being challenged more because he is under more pressure with all the failures from his batting teammates who are struggling. Smith needs Warner back in the team as does his mate Marnus who also looks shaky...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 06:44:39 pm
Marnus looked OK,  he got a decent ball and at least they had to winkle him out.   Too many others get themselves out, it's the reason Head isn't test standard.   Some of the appealing is clearly designed to pressure the umpires.... Frivolous appeals for stuff pitching outside leg, close catches etc.   The Indians talked at least one out today. I'm not surprised Ashwin cops a lot of short stuff,  he's got a big mouth.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2020, 06:58:55 pm
Marnus looked OK,  he got a decent ball and at least they had to winkle him out.   Too many others get themselves out, it's the reason Head isn't test standard.   Some of the appealing is clearly designed to pressure the umpires.... Frivolous appeals for stuff pitching outside leg, close catches etc.   The Indians talked at least one out today. I'm not surprised Ashwin cops a lot of short stuff,  he's got a big mouth.
Head is another one with problems vs the short stuff, looks uncomfortable and doesnt want to get forward even when the ball is up there to hit and is always straddling the crease neither really back or forward playing those drives outside off and getting caught in the slip to point arc. Wade is a fighter but when he looks your best batsman then you have problems.
No use having a decent attack when your batting lineup is unreliable, this wicket was flat and the bowling competent but nothing special, they were even one player down with Umesh injured and we still collapsed.
Langar will probably bring back Shaun or Mitch Marsh as the fix.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2020, 07:05:51 pm
Langer was a stupid appointment.  Another "process" freak
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2020, 07:16:10 pm
Langer will probably bring back Shaun or Mitch Marsh as the fix.....

I suspect that the emergence of Green has spelled the end the Marsh brothers.  He looks to have the raw talent to become our Test all-rounder for quite some time.  It’s an indictment on our system that his batting and bowling wasn’t fine-tuned before he got his baggy green.

I am enjoying Punter’s commentary.  If only Paine could listen in to Punter’s thoughts about placing and moving fieldsmen and bowling tactics.

Big Merv has been surprisingly good on the wireless too.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 07:47:36 pm
Not having a first slip was reprehensible.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2020, 08:17:42 pm
I suspect that the emergence of Green has spelled the end the Marsh brothers.  He looks to have the raw talent to become our Test all-rounder for quite some time.  It’s an indictment on our system that his batting and bowling wasn’t fine-tuned before he got his baggy green.

I am enjoying Punter’s commentary.  If only Paine could listen in to Punter’s thoughts about placing and moving fieldsmen and bowling tactics.

Big Merv has been surprisingly good on the wireless too.
Feel a bit sorry for Green, we have been craving that genuine allrounder since I was a kid, other countries seem to produce them but we have always struggled and its hard for a kid coming in to the team with the expectation of being our answer to Ben Stokes.
Mitch Marsh was probably a victim of being pushed along too early and it probably hindered his development..
Been impressed with Greens bowling, he shapes the ball away at 140k and gets plenty of lift with his height, like I said his batting needs some work and batting at six in a dodgy lineup stuck between Head and Paine doesnt help.
Pontings commentary and reading of the game is excellent, makes up for the carp you get from some of the others....Paine has his good and bad days, thought Rahane the stand in skipper for the Indians was excellent, every bowling change worked and he has that happy knack of changing the field and having the ball follow his moves.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 29, 2020, 12:26:41 pm
Green looks good to me.  A few classic strokes
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 29, 2020, 01:54:45 pm
Keeps hitting the pull to mid wicket.  Needs to really commit to it and put it in the members' bar.  Either hit it down or go all the way.

Don't think he plays the short stuff especially well but agree that there is something to work with.   Young enough to improve.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 29, 2020, 08:32:20 pm
I'm probably putting the mockers on them, but I would play young Puckovski if he is fit. Having so many concussions already is a big issue with this lad.
If Puckovski isn't fit, I'd play Harris.
In the last 2 series here, India has 8 of the top 9 individual scores. In at #9 is Harris when he made 79. No Australian has made a century in this series, or the last (when Warner and Smith were unavailable). Considering that we should be controlling the pitch surface to suit our players, I find that an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 29, 2020, 08:52:05 pm
Ponting said after today's play that the 3rd should be played here ... we'll see.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 29, 2020, 10:11:39 pm
Ponting said after today's play that the 3rd should be played here ... we'll see.
 
It's in Sydney.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 30, 2020, 07:48:57 am
Something smells after this test,  and it ain't just Australia's stinking performance.  One side bowled at an over  rate akin to a melting glacier, yet the over side got fined.  Gotta keep the BCCI happy....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 30, 2020, 04:23:03 pm

It's in Sydney.

And something of a backlash happening in the media.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 31, 2020, 09:24:47 am
And something of a backlash happening in the media.

Surely it would have to be played in a bubble with no spectators  ::)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 31, 2020, 02:32:08 pm
Surely it would have to be played in a bubble with no spectators  ::)
It is looking that way. Covid is spreading through Sydney, of that there is no doubt. Makes a test there look dubious. Can't see how they can scan the crowd to keep out anyone infected. Better to go with no crowd.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on December 31, 2020, 03:39:08 pm
Surely it would have to be played in a bubble with no spectators  ::)

Nah 27000 will be ok.  They will be trusted to not sit next to each other, and wear masks except when they are eating and drinking....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 31, 2020, 05:18:11 pm
How on earth they can stage this test in Sydney, then go to Brisbane (albeit with a special exemption) defies logic.   I'd be furious if I was in Queensland.

NSW leading the stupidity race as per usual,  daylight second.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 31, 2020, 05:42:18 pm
I'd be sharing that blame with CA.   
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2020, 08:10:58 pm
NSW leading the stupidity race as per usual,  daylight second.
I don't think it's stupid, it's wilfully indifferent.

Contrast this to NSW closing it's borders and telling Victorians how good NSW has been, all the while shipping International infected returnees to hotels in Melbourne and letting infected Kiwi's migrate south straight off the tarmac!

Now apparently Vic is being unreasonable!

It's all really crap low level politics, the gutter isn't low enough!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 04, 2021, 08:51:07 am
Boycott Brisbane... Isn't that a default to the other side?   Bet that will go down like a turd in a swimming pool at the BCCI.

NSW's V'Landys style administration method might go down well with the locals,  but for Australians outside those borders,  you  and your cronies ain't winning fans Gladys.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 04, 2021, 10:03:00 am
Boycott Brisbane... Isn't that a default to the other side?   Bet that will go down like a turd in a swimming pool at the BCCI.

NSW's V'Landys style administration method might go down well with the locals,  but for Australians outside those borders,  you  and your cronies ain't winning fans Gladys.
Just imagine if the Aussies were touring India and we wanted to boycott one of their dungheaps? Maggots.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 04, 2021, 10:03:31 am
Sir Jimmy Anderson? .... Was going to be knighted but given he will probably tour here again its been postponed as the powers at be thought he might cop a right royal sledging from our blokes.
JA is a highly skilled bowler but I have never seen the greatness in him that others do and and I am fascinated how the English throw knighthoods at cricketers. I'm no fan of the royals and the idea of titles etc but if you are going to hand them out then give them to people who really change the world we live in for the better and not the likes of Jimmy who
while very good at his craft has enjoyed the benefits of being a pro sportsman more than he has given back imo.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 04, 2021, 10:18:12 am
Sir Jimmy Anderson? .... Was going to be knighted but given he will probably tour here again its been postponed as the powers at be thought he might cop a right royal sledging from our blokes.
JA is a highly skilled bowler but I have never seen the greatness in him that others do and and I am fascinated how the English throw knighthoods at cricketers. I'm no fan of the royals and the idea of titles etc but if you are going to hand them out then give them to people who really change the world we live in for the better and not the likes of Jimmy who
while very good at his craft has enjoyed the benefits of being a pro sportsman more than he has given back imo.
Jimmy who? And S.K. Warne?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 04, 2021, 02:07:22 pm
The political lie is exposed.

Just hours after the teams departed Melbourne for Sydney, knowing full well they wouldn't be allowed back to Melbourne without quarantine, Gladys slashed the crowd numbers at the SCG from 30K to 10K!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 04, 2021, 10:04:11 pm
Words fail me

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 05, 2021, 09:32:17 am
The political lie is exposed.

Just hours after the teams departed Melbourne for Sydney, knowing full well they wouldn't be allowed back to Melbourne without quarantine, Gladys slashed the crowd numbers at the SCG from 30K to 10K!
.

To be fair, it was that twat Barilaro, Gladys is having a break.

I heard an eminent epidemiologist recommending that punters get a COVID test as they enter the SCG.  At the very least, they should have temperature checks.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 05, 2021, 09:45:10 pm
If the ACB reward Sydney with two tests after the bullsh1t that's gone down in NSW then we need to drop the pretense that 7 of the 8 states and territories matter.  But then again, even Bradman would have struggled to get a game if he didn't come from NSW.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 05, 2021, 10:09:49 pm
If the ACB reward Sydney with two tests after the bullsh1t that's gone down in NSW then we need to drop the pretense that 7 of the 8 states and territories matter.  But then again, even Bradman would have struggled to get a game if he didn't come from NSW.

Your anti-NSW bias is showing Prof 😇

The fact that the Sydney Test is going ahead is a triumph for vested interests over sound public health policy.

To steal a line from a classic joke, I can imagine a punter responding to Gladys with, “Don’t call me ‘Freckles’, and where were you when the sh1t hit the fan?”
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 05, 2021, 11:04:14 pm
Your anti-NSW bias is showing Prof 😇

The fact that the Sydney Test is going ahead is a triumph for vested interests over sound public health policy.

To steal a line from a classic joke, I can imagine a punter responding to Gladys with, “Don’t call me ‘Freckles’, and where were you when the sh1t hit the fan?”
Gladys was probably with her dodgy polly boyfriend waving the cruise ships through to the docks, how you can have spectators at that test match with whats happening in NSW CoVid wise defies logic. Once again NSW are the source of our problems and have failed to act quickly enough at the initial stages. Even simple things like making masks mandatory initially were too much thinking for Gladys to cope with.....makes Dopey Dan look a genius. ScoMo and his crew should be telling Gladys its a no for spectators and you aint getting a second test match in Sydney.
I see that Moeen Ali has tested positive on arrival in Sri Lanka?...wouldnt you test, quarantine players before leaving England and then bubble them once arriving?


Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 05, 2021, 11:26:09 pm
You would think that no-one, passengers or crew, could board a plane unless they have a negative COVID test result 🙄

And that should apply more strictly to cricketers, and other privileged sportsfolk.

The Indian players haven’t stuck to the restrictions - and are unlikely to be fined or suspended - and Pakistani and English players have tested positive.

I get that Test Cricket, and other sports, are probably more important to our wellbeing now than at any time in the last 60 years or more, but public health has to be given priority.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 06, 2021, 07:24:57 am
You would think that no-one, passengers or crew, could board a plane unless they have a negative COVID test result 🙄

And that should apply more strictly to cricketers, and other privileged sportsfolk.

The Indian players haven’t stuck to the restrictions - and are unlikely to be fined or suspended - and Pakistani and English players have tested positive.

I get that Test Cricket, and other sports, are probably more important to our wellbeing now than at any time in the last 60 years or more, but public health has to be given priority.
I read yesterday that the Westin Hotel in Melbourne has torn up its agreement with TA to house tennis players during the AO. Owners of appartments within the complex arced up and raised concerns over their safety and forced the Westin's hand by threatening legal action. Thats what you get when sportspeople don't behave properly and follow rules.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 06, 2021, 09:16:01 am
Because a lot of high profile people are "special" and think they should be treated accordingly, while us every day mugs struggling to survive from day to day pay the rent.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 06, 2021, 11:18:46 am
Because a lot of high profile people are "special" and think they should be treated accordingly, while us every day mugs struggling to survive from day to day pay the rent.
Karen from Brighton, or Peter from Portsea syndrome!

The truth is even worse though.

The infamous Mornington Peninsula COVID crew didn't really disbelieve COVID, even though they fronted the media and told everyone it was just a cold, they came home from Whistler or wherever to break the rules because they knew they had a room in their mega-mansion setup like a private ICU! They had their own ventilators, defib, etc., etc., they knew they had guaranteed access to this stuff at home.

So the reality is they just didn't give a stuff, they were prepared to burn everybody else and risk some lesser personal harm to preserve their lavish lifestyle! But it's a foolish approach, because all that personal kit guarantees nothing, it reduces risk it doesn't eliminate it!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 07, 2021, 10:59:24 am
And the great white knight slips on horse ordure and FAILS.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 07, 2021, 11:37:50 am
And the great white knight slips on horse ordure and FAILS.
Not great from Warner, this Indian attack is very under manned due to injury and with Kholi missing its about as weak an Indian team as it gets and he should have been more patient.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 07, 2021, 11:57:10 am
EB... It was a putrid shot from a senior player,  further evidence that (1) this bloke was rushed back based upon reputation and (2) he has zero idea if the ball moves.   None.

On a flat pitch he'd be the first bloke picked, but as shown by Ashes 2019, then a slashing home series against weak opposition on flat pitches,  we can't rely on bloke and need to look elsewhere.   The selectors infatuation with this bloke in less than ideal conditions drives me nuts.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 07, 2021, 12:31:27 pm
He was and forever will be an impetuous player.  Never know what you're gonna get
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 07, 2021, 01:21:37 pm
EB... It was a putrid shot from a senior player,  further evidence that (1) this bloke was rushed back based upon reputation and (2) he has zero idea if the ball moves.   None.

On a flat pitch he'd be the first bloke picked, but as shown by Ashes 2019, then a slashing home series against weak opposition on flat pitches,  we can't rely on bloke and need to look elsewhere.   The selectors infatuation with this bloke in less than ideal conditions drives me nuts.
Agree Prof it was a very English dismissal from him vs the moving ball, problem is we dont have many alternative openers who have decent techniques. Wade has looked more sound than most and then you have to look at players like Harris, Burns etc who dont grab me either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 07, 2021, 04:35:05 pm
The selectors infatuation with this bloke in less than ideal conditions drives me nuts.
I reckon if he can get himself embedded in the team Pucovski is the cure for this!

 He'll outscore Warner and he'll do it without all the theatrics.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 07, 2021, 06:59:49 pm
I reckon if he can get himself embedded in the team Pucovski is the cure for this!

 He'll outscore Warner and he'll do it without all the theatrics.
Played some nice shots but also showed his weak areas, doesnt play the short ball well and got away with it vs the gentle 136kmh Indian attack on a friendly wicket but when its Archer, Wood, Rabada, Nortje etc bowling at 150 plus he will be get hit for sure.
He also falls across his crease which is how he got out, he was impressive to a point but was dropped twice and got lucky another time so good effort to push onto 62 but I'd be cautious about calling him a savior.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 07, 2021, 08:47:30 pm
Better than "Monty" Burns :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 08, 2021, 08:35:34 am
Burns is a solid player,  but you don't pick guys struggling for form,  not with his litany of soft out's prior to the first test.   I don't understand why he started opening for Queensland,  he looked such a good 5 or 6.

Unlike Dizzy I can understand why they dropped Head,  good shield player with average fielding skills who hasn't learned from his mistakes and hasn't improved.

Harris doesn't thrill me either,  he's the Diet Coke version of Warner.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 08, 2021, 09:06:50 pm
How dumb Matt Wade, did he really think that was the right shot? Didnt help Green who has has own problems, LBW again falling over to the offside and playing around the ball. Its a real rubbery tail we have now with Cummins batting not what it used to be and apart from Starc going the park slog its thin pickings in terms of runs from our bowlers.
Smith played a controlled innings and looked back to his old self which was a positive but we really did blow the chance to stick the boot into the Indians and build a big lead. Like I said previously this Indian team without Kholi and a couple of their main bowlers missing is weak and are ripe to get flogged IMO but we are making them look good.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 08, 2021, 10:16:00 pm
Wade's shot was inexcusable.  U14 stuff
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 09, 2021, 07:52:58 am
150 runs short thanks to Wade and his dumb mates, we'll be batting to survive days 4 and 5.

And Paine was right about Blocker... That LBW no decision wasn't good. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 09, 2021, 02:39:04 pm
I can see a declaration coming up tomorrow.  If, of course, we don't fall to pieces in the 2nd dig.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 09, 2021, 07:52:46 pm
Here we go, on the ropes, getting their hat handed to them on the way out the door, .................. play the racism card!

The modern default tactic for washed up or on the way out sportspeople world wide!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 09, 2021, 09:53:43 pm
Distractions from an impending loss.  But great to see two Australian umpires out there again.

But I must be a racist

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 09, 2021, 10:58:49 pm
While there were some poor shots, Smith made it very clear that batting wasn’t all that easy.

The Indians didn’t fare too well with the bat either ... although poor running between the wickets and some very good fielding made a huge difference.

And there’s nothing like sustained, well-directed fast bowling to sort the sheep from the goats  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 09, 2021, 11:01:06 pm
Distractions from an impending loss.  But great to see two Australian umpires out there again.

But I must be a racist

When was the last time two former Australian Test fast bowlers umpired a Test?  I reckon never!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 10, 2021, 12:02:32 am
When was the last time two former Australian Test fast bowlers umpired a Test?  I reckon never!
The fix is in!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 10, 2021, 12:59:44 am
The fix is in!

 :D

I think that they have done a pretty good job.  The only blemishes I’ve noted are allowing Payne to mouth off and not pulling Bumrah up for his petulant breaking of the stumps.  Stamp on that and everyone else will toe the line.  That said, all of the Tests seem to be played in a good spirit.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 10, 2021, 07:49:10 am
Reiffel has been a terrific umpire  8)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 10, 2021, 09:42:00 am
Jadeja has a broken and dislocated thumb - game over  :(

I have enjoyed watching him play.  He is a very talented and entertaining cricketer and I hope he makes a full recovery.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 10, 2021, 01:45:46 pm
Jadeja has a broken and dislocated thumb - game over  :(

I have enjoyed watching him play.  He is a very talented and entertaining cricketer and I hope he makes a full recovery.
Yep he can really play in all areas of the game and I can never work out why he isnt a fixture in the Indian line up, got a few of their best out now and and its going to be a very weak lineup for the 4th test and I'd expect us to win both this and the next test.
Agree on Paine and Bumrah...I would have made the latter reassemble the stumps/bails and let his skipper know I wont tolerate a repeat.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 10, 2021, 02:25:50 pm
Yep he can really play in all areas of the game and I can never work out why he isnt a fixture in the Indian line up, ........................
Jadeja is India's version of Maxwell, probably the best all-round cricketer in India, but not loved by many officials and team-mates!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 10, 2021, 05:00:29 pm
Starc needs time off,  he's bowling shyte again.   May be time for Warnie to give him a jag.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 11, 2021, 12:01:22 pm
Starc doing his impression of a pie chucker again
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2021, 01:02:51 pm
Starc doing his impression of a pie chucker again
Looks disinterested.....Pant is on today and our bowling looks a bit tired and we are waiting for a mistake rather than bowling to a plan. Need to regroup and just bowl a better line and length something which Starc struggles to do when the conditions are not in his favour. If I was India I would experiment with Pant as an opener and get a keeper who can catch and bat, he has that Schewag/Srikanth ability that can really destroy attacks.
If we can prise Pujara out I think the rest will fold up especially with Jadeja unlikely to bat..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on January 11, 2021, 01:33:20 pm
Remove a second slip and a ball is edged in the exact place the fielder was. Paine misses an opportunity. Gas just keeps chipping away with edges not able to carry. The old catches win matches will be an issue every side needs to work super hard on at training. Opportunities present and you just need to pounce on them. Sure the bowling hasn’t been spectacular but the Aussies haven’t pounced on an opportunity when it presents either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2021, 03:34:57 pm
It's amazing how some bowlers delivery a heavy ball, even though the radar suggests the speed variance is minimal.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 11, 2021, 04:17:13 pm
Starc has been very average this series and escaped criticism thus far .... Currently can't bowl two balls an over in the right place and he's not bowling anywhere near enough wicket taking balls and leaking runs.  As EB says,  looks like he's running at half rat power and disinterested.

I'd be handing Neser a cap in Brisbane.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 11, 2021, 06:29:18 pm
Ri Starc was the pick of the bowlers in the last session and was stiff not to snag a couple of wickets.  With a bit of luck going his way, we could have got a result.

I’m puzzled by our use of the DRS and some of the field settings but you have to give credit to the Indians.  I wrote them off when Jadeja was injured  :-[
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2021, 06:38:27 pm
Credit to India for the courage they showed but we were really were poor in the field and bowled like we expected things to happen rather than trying to make them happen. When you cant get a bloke out with a blown hamstring and another who is a bowler all be it who can bat a bit you have to  ask some questions. Too much BS sledging by Paine,Wade and crew and not enough attention to where to bowl and position the field IMO. Paine dropped some catches but he also lacks a bit of imagination IMO. The continued short pitched attack especially by Cummins on a dead wicket had me confused, they were ducking most of the short stuff and didnt look overly troubled IMO. When Starc bowled in a more traditional method and looked for the edge we looked more likely to take wickets but it was too late at that stage.
Not sure why Green has to start with a warm up half rat power bouncer every spell either, hasnt taken a wicket yet and I hope he improves as his fitness gets better as he really bowled crape in this test and has been ineffectual with the ball.
I would have tried Lyon and Marnus as a combo attack a bit more and made Vihari use his feet.......Ashwin kept Vihari away from Lyon and Vihari was happy to take the quicks after Ashwin got hit in the chest and we just let them keep facing up to their preferred bowlers.
Agree with Prof, I'd play Neser on his home track and if the test gets played in Sydney due to Covid issues in Qld I'd play Abbott
and drop Starc who looks cooked more times than not although his last spell was his best.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 11, 2021, 07:43:01 pm
Pretty dumb when we never needed to defend the total but didn't bowl accordingly.

Indians played well though

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2021, 07:57:21 pm
Another crap no result SCG pitch.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 11, 2021, 09:25:59 pm
Yep,  just pleased we didn't lose the game,  I hate the SCG pitch.   It's like we custom make it for the other mob, which craps me to tears.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 11, 2021, 10:38:47 pm
Crap keeping ... dropped 3
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2021, 10:44:31 pm
Yep,  just pleased we didn't lose the game,  I hate the SCG pitch.  It's like we custom make it for the other mob, which craps me to tears.
The SCG has four no results since 2015, and these NSW Norbits have the temerity to bag the MCG which has four no results in 30 years!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2021, 10:58:26 pm
Crap keeping ... dropped 3
Not sure what he was thinking when he sledged Ashwin either, he had a crap day behind the stumps, had his usual DRS issues in the game and the bloke he was chirping at has made 4 test centuries to Paines nil.
I dont mind some mental games but you got to be able to back it up on the field and Paine would have been better to shut up given the day he was having and concentrate on getting his fielders in the right position and trying to get the ball to stick in his gloves. Ditto with Wade who has done SFA this game but carries on like a clown, threw the ball at Vihari twice and wants a medal everytime he gets struck by the ball when fielding close and has to let the batsman know about it by puffing out his chest.
Its just cringe worthy stuff you associate with park cricketers....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 11, 2021, 11:41:57 pm
He is not my first choice as captain.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 08:03:50 am
Annoyed that Paine, followed by a pile on by the cringewirthy virtue signalling local media have handed the high ground to that mob.

Although their own behaviour has been less than exemplary (there is now doubt that anything racist was hurled over the fence )  yet they're on top now.   F up in Brisbane Paine and you're toast.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2021, 08:59:44 am
India also deserve a kick given Pant was unfit to keep yet seemed very well to bat and they were able to use the better catching Saha behind the stumps for a extended period.
Then had the cheek to promote the supposed injured Pant in the batting order, how does that work?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 09:20:08 am
India - masters of gamesmanship.   And since when can your substitute be a specialist keeper,  one markedly better than the one currently playing? A diddle was being played.

Bumrah knocking the bails off - I've seen players suspended for less.  Pathetic.

Ashwin's frivolous appeals  and constant yapping over four tours. It's tiring. I'm not supporting what Paine did,  but F me,  more than a few are over Ashwin's Schtick.

First mob to play the race card and biatch about crowd behaviour.  Pretty short memories that mob.

As I said,  do the job properly and beat this mob in the next test.   Don't give them chance to exult going home with the BG trophy.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 12, 2021, 09:20:17 am
He is not my first choice as captain.

I think that Paine is the ideal Aussie captain ... off the field.  He has done a great job in rebuilding the team culture and ensuring that the team gets the respect it deserves. 

On field is a different matter.  His judgement is questionable and he seems slow to react to changes in the game, or to take the initiative and drive changes in the game.  Even worse is his tendency to petulance when things aren’t going his way.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 12, 2021, 09:28:22 am
I think that Paine is the ideal Aussie captain ... off the field.  He has done a great job in rebuilding the team culture and ensuring that gets the respect it deserves. 

On field is a different matter.  His judgement is questionable and he seems slow to react to changes in the game, or to take the initiative and drive changes in the game.  Even worse is his tendency to petulance when things aren’t going his way.
A lot of the noise is politics, the push to return Smith to the top job, but beyond Paine and Smith there are not a lot of options until Carey gets a regular gig, and he's a SA not a NSW!

In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to make Cummins captain, as is the backup position of the NSW Cricket mafia.

We've quite a void in the captaincy stakes due to the continual undermining of non-NSW candidates. A legacy of the structures brokered going back to the pre-Waugh era, when the best young players around the country were regularly threatened with oblivion if they didn't move the NSW to play grade cricket! You only have to listen to Mark Waugh commenting a non-NSW BBL game to understand how this has developed.

Personally, if Warner is not 100%, I'd bring in Finch to open and captain, he's hands down the best leader in Australia, better even than Smith who in my opinion is an ordinary captain, so much so that he makes Paine look OK on field, but I think they won't go that way because of the state politics.

The worse thing the NSW Cricket Mafia could suffer would be if Finch came in and a good enough job with the bat but captained supremely, it would end Smith's hopes, Finch could become embedded as a Brearley / Taylor type leader. In the other opening slot Pucovski or whoever else, if Pucovski is not fit then bring in Carey to opener/keeper, and select another option to replace Paine. A lot of people claim keepers can't open, it's too much of a load, but they do it in Shield four day cricket all the time. But unlike the Mandalorian, this is not Langer's way, he's more of a welded on man!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 09:36:44 am
I don't think he's the greatest in game strategist,  but who is locally?   He was hamstrung by a very docile pitch which hardly broke up,  scatterbrained bowling plans and was a bowler down with Starc off. The bowling mentorship/coach need a good look at themselves... The effort was excellent, Starc aside,  but the plans/execution were very poor. 
Unfortunately I don't see another captain in that group,  and I don't rate Smith either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 09:45:19 am
LP - don't get me started on Mark f***** Waugh,  the protected golden calf of NSW cricket.  I'd sooner listen to Trump's advice on cricket.    The bloke who got chances while the careers of other talented players were quashed.   If he was so good,  why did he end with the mediocre average of 41 - because he wasn't as good as the hype!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2021, 09:46:04 am
If Paine gets the flick it will be back to Smith imo, a lot of people like Carey including the media but the NSW mafia will want Smith as will the core playing group.
Don't see Langar wanting Carey either who is his own man I believe and not one of the boys club.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 12, 2021, 09:47:34 am
LP - don't get me started on Mark f***** Waugh,  the protected golden calf of NSW cricket.  I'd sooner listen to Trump's advice on cricket.    The bloke who got chances while the careers of other talented players were quashed.  If he was so good,  why did he end with the mediocre average of 41 - because he wasn't as good as the hype!
It's not really Waugh's fault, I concede it's easy to focus on him, but he's a product of the system much like Hird was at CheatsFC. Waugh cannot see it so when confronted he denies a bias, but that is because it's the only world he knows existing within NSW Cricket like a goldfish in a bowl!

The roots of rot go much much deeper than the players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 10:01:07 am
LP,  I reckon the other brother has a very big say in which strings are pulled to make the puppets dance.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 12, 2021, 11:11:24 am
Bumrah knocking the bails off - I've seen players suspended for less.  Pathetic.

And where did he learn that?  Langer
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 12:54:27 pm
Was Steve Waugh captain when Langer was playing?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 12, 2021, 01:01:41 pm
Fairly sure he was Prof.  Langer's actions were disgraceful and designed to be hidden in a blatant attempt to cheat ... pity the video picked it up and condemned him.

EDIT ... Ponting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afQvCaPd4t8&list=PLxCA9Qt0aAI9lD3fuzzjFk0wb1-eGYUYF&index=24
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 12, 2021, 02:22:53 pm
With the 3rd test done and dusted, I have a comments, some of which have been mentioned before:

[1] Very disappointed with the Australian attack and the way we fielded on the last day. Catches win matches and we can only blame ourselves for that. Really, we should have won.
If we fielded like we had during the first innings, it would have been over around lunchtime.

[2] Paine's keeping: I think Paine has done an excellent job as Captain, but he isn't getting any younger and his keeping is on the downslide. As he is in the team primarily as a keeper, this must limit his future.
I don't think he is the best tactician we've had as Captain, but he is better than Smith in that regard.
We have think seriously about replacing him sooner rather than later. His replacement is already playing Shield cricket.

[3] Smith was not a great success as a captain, even though he was the world's dominant batsman at the time. I would not give him the captaincy if Paine were to be replaced.

[4] I would not give Warner the Captaincy either, even though he does appear to have more than a little tactical nous.

[5] The captaincy issue is a serious one. Labuschagne is about the only undroppable candidate in the team, but I have no idea if he has leadership qualities at all. There are a few off field people who don't appear that impressed with him: I honestly don't understand why. But if he were to be in line as a future captain, then he needs to gain experience in that role at state level ASAP. If he doesn't get a go, I wouldn't want to make him Captain. He needs to show the skills of captaincy and he hasn't had a reasonable opportunity as yet.

[6] Wade might make a good captain: he does have experience in the role and some success at it. However, he is barely scoring enough runs to remain in the team. Big issue there.

[7] Pant's health. I have been reading about how badly Pant was injured that he was replaced in the field by a MUCH better keeper.  Then he comes out and bats as he did. That looks rather suspect. If he was fit enough to bat for extended periods, then he was probably fit enough to keep wickets.

[8] Jadeja, who has a broken hand, was apparently padded up and waiting. Desperation? Guts and determination? other?

[9] The racism row now looks to be not a molehill that's been made into a mountain. Racist taunts are not welcome and are not the sort of thing to appear in modern Australia. But the comments now appear to have been anything but racist.
What does that say about the think skin of the Indians?
I can say that I say worse things about umpiring 20 to 30 times per game in the AFL. I get very emotional and complain bitterly when we've been robbed. Would I have been evicted from the SCG?
And what about the supporters in India. Not speaking much Hindi or Urdu (or Punjabi and Maratha or Tamil or the rest), what are they calling out?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 02:58:03 pm
Parachute Finch in,  he can open and captain. Right hander.

Warner has shown his colours,  will never captain again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2021, 05:12:51 pm
Its interesting that Carey is seen as a future captain and keeper but doesnt have the runs at 1st class level to back it up IMO.
If you are going on form you would go with Josh Inglis as your keeper/bat and you would be opening with Sam Whiteman both keepers, both English expats and both playing for WA.
The player who would probably qualify as the next captain is Moses Henriques IMHO.....but again he is from NSW. Henriques is of a steady nature and what I would call a handy player rather than a brilliant one but from what I have seen has some nous as a skipper and the respect of the players he commands at NSW and in the BBL.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 13, 2021, 12:55:28 pm
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 13, 2021, 01:41:16 pm
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.
I agree I wouldnt make Henriques captain but being from NSW would make him a candidate, he is also in the squad so the selectors must still think he can play at test level.But I think Smith would be seen ahead of him anyway, not by me though. Not sure if Smith is the full quid to be honest, after sandpaper gate you reckon he would be steering clear of anything that even looked liked placing him under scrutiny. Why he has to mess with the batting crease/guard area I dont know and I would have told him to clear out if I was Pant and leave my guard marks alone.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 13, 2021, 03:14:32 pm
Can't agree more,  what Smith was doing was mind bogglingly stupid,  so why do it?   Since when do players from the fielding side scratch at the wicket?  The only defence he has is that the umpires didn't pull him up instantly ob it,  so it wasn't deemed to be in a place considered "in play"?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:02 pm
Can't agree more,  what Smith was doing was mind bogglingly stupid,  so why do it?   Since when do players from the fielding side scratch at the wicket?  The only defence he has is that the umpires didn't pull him up instantly ob it,  so it wasn't deemed to be in a place considered "in play"?
Umpires probably saw him shadow batting and thought its just Smith being weird as per normal, scuffing the guard marks away is what they probably didnt see at the time. I have seen opposition batters shadow bat off the pitch, mainly openers who think they might be batting soon and getting used to the light etc but never seen a fielding team player scratching at the guard marks.....
I think Smith knew what he was doing and took it one step further by working on the guard marks, mind you Pant shouldnt have been out there anyway after milking his injury to avoid keeping so maybe we will call it even.
I'd be changing the rules on injured players not being allowed to bat higher than their usual initial position and on fielders fiddling with the batting area.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 13, 2021, 07:04:57 pm
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.

A bit like bringing Bobby Simpson back ... but he could play ;)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 13, 2021, 07:53:19 pm
Can't agree more,  what Smith was doing was mind bogglingly stupid,  so why do it?   Since when do players from the fielding side scratch at the wicket?  The only defence he has is that the umpires didn't pull him up instantly ob it,  so it wasn't deemed to be in a place considered "in play"?
Stupid ? Probably. Cheating? Most definitely not. Smith comes across as being a little bit OCD, very quirky. He'd be the type of bloke who walks around the house playing cricket shots (Air batting). I think his explanation was fair enough if you ask me. Media beat up yet again. As they said on SEN this morning, Paine's apology was a joke, basically apologising to the Twitter minority. FFS he called a bloke two feet away from him a DH. No racial slurs, no taboo topics like wives, kids, family etc. The country is stuffed I tell ya. Pandering to nuffies.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 13, 2021, 10:43:51 pm
Just for amusement :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEnreKWuG6o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 13, 2021, 11:42:25 pm
Stupid ? Probably. Cheating? Most definitely not. Smith comes across as being a little bit OCD, very quirky. He'd be the type of bloke who walks around the house playing cricket shots (Air batting). I think his explanation was fair enough if you ask me. Media beat up yet again. As they said on SEN this morning, Paine's apology was a joke, basically apologising to the Twitter minority. FFS he called a bloke two feet away from him a DH. No racial slurs, no taboo topics like wives, kids, family etc. The country is stuffed I tell ya. Pandering to nuffies.

But there's no need for it G2C.  Paine would have been better off concentrating on wicketkeeping, setting better fields, making better use of his bowlers and figuring out how to use the DRS.

He came across as more of a d1ckhead than Ashwin.  If you're going to sledge, you need to be on top of your game and do it with a bit of humour.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on January 14, 2021, 12:58:47 am
But there's no need for it G2C.  Paine would have been better off concentrating on wicketkeeping, setting better fields, making better use of his bowlers and figuring out how to use the DRS.

He came across as more of a d1ckhead than Ashwin.  If you're going to sledge, you need to be on top of your game and do it with a bit of humour.
Dunno, what I read as being said was probably some very accurate home truths on both sides, play on...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 14, 2021, 10:03:09 am
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.

I think he is 5th or 6th favourite, with some of the bookies, for Aus' leading run scorer at the Gabba.   Not sure if that is based on any inside info.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2021, 12:30:19 pm
If Henrique's is our new test all-rounder it's a sad indictment in our cricket.   That said,  I've seen him take some absolutely blitzing catches,  not bad for a bloke lacking in the athletic stakes relative to others.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 14, 2021, 02:53:02 pm
Had to laugh at Michael Vaughan claiming there is a dearth of quality spin because none are good enough to challenge Muralitharan's 800 wickets.

That's because nobody else is allowed to chuck it, and if some umpire called Muralitharan for chucking they were slammed as racists, which was just a cheap tactic used by then Sri Lankan coach Dav Whatmore to get his spinner off the hook!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 03:17:23 pm
Warney, (admittedly not someone I hold in high regard), doesn't think Murali's a chucker.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 14, 2021, 04:20:17 pm
Warne doesn't understand the rule.  He IS a chucker
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2021, 04:25:28 pm
WTF,  Puckovski gets dropped for a bung shoulder, but Warner plays half fit!?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 04:29:31 pm
If true, it's a bit of a worry that a test spin blower like Warne doesn't understand the rules that pertain to his work. Murali was cleared twice by biomechanics experts, who in the course of their analysis found that other bowlers could also be construed as chuckers :

With the use of modern technology, the panel also found that legendary bowlers such as Dennis Lillee, Fred Trueman, Richard Hadlee, Curtly Ambrose, Imran Khan, Ian Botham and Allan Donald, although they looked perfect to the naked eye, also bent their arms too much when bowling, meaning they, too, were throwing.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/bending-the-rules-on-chucking-20041112-gdk3k3.html

My guess is that this all started to look like a can of worms, and the cricket authorities decided to leave it at that. Murali will go down as one of those controversial, polarising figures that appear to be legion in the sporting world.

And Darrell Hair is not exactly a great character.
 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 14, 2021, 04:45:28 pm
Darrel Hair's character is not in question here Paul.  He wasn't the only (OZ) umpire to call him.  Got that laptop yet?  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2021, 05:33:04 pm
Yep,  under the rules of the time he was a chucker and the assassination of Hairs umpiring was a blot on the cricketing community. When you change the rules to accommodate an individual you're swimming in dangerous waters.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 05:42:05 pm
Darrel Hair's character is not in question here Paul.  He wasn't the only (OZ) umpire to call him.  Got that laptop yet?  :)

Hair's character is not the main part of my post, which I note you ignored.

We did end up buying the laptop. It's been sitting on the shelf for a few weeks owing to the internal speaker not working. It was fixed just a couple of hours ago via remote IT support. 

Thanks for asking.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 05:56:06 pm
https://www.inuth.com/sports/muttiah-muralitharans-no-ball-controversy-steve-waugh-reveals-it-all-after-22-years/
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 14, 2021, 10:58:49 pm
With the use of modern technology, the panel also found that legendary bowlers such as Dennis Lillee, Fred Trueman, Richard Hadlee, Curtly Ambrose, Imran Khan, Ian Botham and Allan Donald, although they looked perfect to the naked eye, also bent their arms too much when bowling, meaning they, too, were throwing.
That was the biggest crock of crap of all time. I competed in Australia's fastest bowler competition with Lillee, Thompson, Hurst and others, as did many young fast bowlers around the country. The competition was actually conducted by Lillee's surgeon as part of a study about stress injuries on fast bowlers backs. We all got to see bowling actions side on in super slow motion, we bowled in front of a huge piece of graph paper being filmed by a high speed camera.

The truth is that under enough force at the moment of delivery a fast bowlers arm bends, like a fishing rod, but the Murali boosters tried to paint that as straightening your arm by more than 5°. Lillee, Thompson, Hurst, all of them bowled with locked elbows, Murali bowled with an elbow flick like somebody making a back-handed throw.

You can mimic Murali's action by holding your arm up in front of your face, scratching your head then straightening your arm, the elbow faced the batsmen when he bowled the wrong-un, that's why it was a throw.

When Murali was investigated he point blank refused to bowl in short sleeves, because he said he suffered duress due to a deformity in his arm.

After the Whatmore racism claims were aired they all went quiet, none of the players, past-players or officials wanted the grief they would get when playing or working in the sub-continent. Back in those days foreigners were being kidnapped or blown up in Columbo regularly!

btw., Steve Waugh pumps up Murali as the best because he genuinely hates Warne's guts and he knows it gets under Warne's skin!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 15, 2021, 08:44:44 am
Pat, you know, I like you, and when you stay focussed, you are hard to beat. But when you go into hyperbolic overdrive...........

If you don't accept study after study of his action, if you don't believe 2 separate analyses, if you don't take the word of his greatest rival, and of Waugh, there's not much left to say.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 15, 2021, 08:50:58 am
I still remember Tony Greig demonstrating how Murali couldn’t straighten his arm.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 15, 2021, 09:36:04 am
I still remember Tony Greig demonstrating how Murali couldn’t straighten his arm.
I can as well, I thought he chucked it but he received some slack cut his way because of the condition of his arm and being a spinner it wasn't such a big deal.
Andy Roberts was one I would have checked very closely, his bouncer was yards quicker and that bend in the arm seemed greater to me..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 15, 2021, 10:49:03 am
Australia batting first at the 'Gabba. We'll see if we've learnt anything from the last few weeks.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 15, 2021, 11:13:41 am
Clearly warner hasn't
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 15, 2021, 11:17:32 am
Clearly warner hasn't
And the NSW cricket mafia continue to bag players like Finch and Maxwell, while giving the true author of the cheating era a continual run!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 15, 2021, 12:24:43 pm
And the NSW cricket mafia continue to bag players like Finch and Maxwell, while giving the true author of the cheating era a continual run!

If the selectors were motivated by the desire to win this Test, Finch and Maxwell would have been among the first players picked.

I’m not sure what motivates them but worrying about who may or may not be able to play the Dukes ball in England shouldn’t be a factor for a Test at the Gabba. 

Of course Maxwell will have a lean innings or two but he will be a match winner more often than not.  Finch’s nous wouldn’t go astray either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 15, 2021, 12:51:58 pm
Cant believe we are struggling vs the Indian net bowlers, their lead bowler is a kid playing his 3rd test and both openers are gone.
The two swing bowlers they picked have moved the ball but its far from intimidating stuff and its a good thing we are not playing a more seasoned team with more firepower. Hopefully Smith and his mini me Marnus can guide us to a decent total and maybe Green can cash in vs this inexperienced attack.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 15, 2021, 01:07:53 pm
Cant believe we are struggling vs the Indian net bowlers, their lead bowler is a kid playing his 3rd test and both openers are gone.
I think this highlights the problem with the welded into the team approach, not just for cricket but for any sport.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 15, 2021, 02:02:51 pm
Warner is hopeless.   Simply doesn't learn.
 His massive f****g ego got him picked.   He ain't fit,  he has zero form and he's only playing becayse HE wanted to.   Time to F him off.   As stated above..... The architect of the cheat and we need to leave him behind.

Harris gave us exactly what I expected.....little.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 15, 2021, 02:47:30 pm
Indian over rate is apalling, but that's OK,  well pressure the other side to make them up down the track.

More dirty gamesmanship from the sweet,  innocent Indians.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 15, 2021, 06:50:07 pm
Indian over rate is apalling, but that's OK,  well pressure the other side to make them up down the track.

More dirty gamesmanship from the sweet,  innocent Indians.

Only three overs short for the day.  That must be right up there with the best for the series.

Dirk Nannes said during the Second Test that the Australian batsmen could find ways to get out when there was absolutely no reason to do so.  With the exception of Warner, who was beaten by a ball that was far too good for his current form, our batsmen seemed to do just that today. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 15, 2021, 08:00:06 pm
Average day at best versus a group of net bowlers,  saved again by a good partnership at the end from Paine - that bloke who apparently can't bat.   Too many soft dismissals - Harris needs a kick in the ar$e for a particularly putrid shot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Swan43 on January 16, 2021, 12:45:34 am
Warner is hopeless.   Simply doesn't learn.
 His massive f****g ego got him picked.   He ain't fit,  he has zero form and he's only playing becayse HE wanted to.   Time to F him off.   As stated above..... The architect of the cheat and we need to leave him behind.

Harris gave us exactly what I expected.....little.

Errmm, no, he'd do all he could to convince the selectors he could do the job as that's what's expected. To do less puts commitment into question. In Australia, his average is huge (OS not so, and he shouldn't ever have been allowed a passport for Tests after the first few. But that's another issue. This is not his doing, it's recidivist 'brains trust' and admin doing. They picked him when underdone and he's struggled since. (But who are the options after Puc, who looks like another rare accidental Test player?) We don't create openers and previously Warner was the last one to have formed, however artificially. 20-20 and the like have come home to roost. We should all get used to it and stop blaming the victims and sacrificial, if sometimes aggressive, lambs.


Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 16, 2021, 09:45:03 am
Heading for a draw I suspect.

Our batting isn't perhaps good enough to win a test, even with the weakened Indian bowling line up.

Although it remains a possibility the bowling will make up for it, but if we keep dropping catches when we get in the field it'll be a draw.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 16, 2021, 10:39:12 am
They bat last .. today means a lot
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 16, 2021, 10:56:31 am
They bat last .. today means a lot
Think same, that track isnt the best and will break up on the last day and their batting runs out at Pant at 6.
Their bowling ran out of steam last evening with Saani injured and I think Paine and Green can push vs their junior burger attack which lacks venom.
Reckon we will win easy and thats how it should be given the amount of outs they have....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 16, 2021, 01:02:31 pm
Our batting has been very,  very sloppy and lazy against a third string attack.   I expect India to make a bazillion on this deck.

Warner has always been a questionable opening proposition with his hard handed technique.   He has gotten away with it for a long time on our decks where he can just throw his hands at it through the line with lightning bat speed,  but if it moves he's over committed and can't adjust.    Now that he's 33 and not picking it up as fast he's not doing it here either.... And picking him for OS tours like the Ashes 2022 is a big risk.   Yes,  he's been entertaining but the end is coming fast.  He has been done a major disservice by the ACB because you can't find form at test level,  you find it playing long form. Without four day games leading in how did he expect to fare ?

Another bloke under the pump is Starc.  His lead in was average and his test series underwhelming.  Again,  why is he an automatic selection?  Surely it's not just because he's from NSW?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 17, 2021, 04:59:58 pm
This circus just goes to show how over-rated the concept of elite is, and how flawed Langer's welded on approach is!

I mentioned awhile back when talking about AFL and player wages, you could sack all 760 players and most of the coaches and replace them from the 10000 players wanting a crack at the gig, and by the end of the following season you would not even notice a difference!

Because despite what is claimed by various experts, media and the players themselves it is not the players that make the sport elite, it's the professional ethics, tactics and fulltime focus that make high level team sport elite. AFL is a good example because it's mired in copycat tactics, and whenever a group break the mold they are almost unbeatable.

Langer will tell you nobody can compete with the top level test players, and as such they deserve more of a chance to retain a spot, except of course some B-Grade opposition!

Also, today is the difference between a Taylor, Finch or Maxwell type player captaining, and someone like a Paine or Smith. The plans have failed, and there is clearly no plan B from Paine and Smith or his crew, they can't innovate or invent things as they go!

India lose a wicket from fatigue, the media talk up our blokes like they are genius. Of course if they bowl them out now all will be forgiven, but it's too late!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 17, 2021, 07:01:34 pm
Australia and Langar didn't do much homework on Washington Sol Patts and his big hitting mate and paid the price.
Bowlers who can bat are not tailenders and you just can't expect them to roll over like No 11's and hand you their wicket. Ponting seemed to know plenty about them via his IPL coaching but our brains trust didn't have a clue and our bowlers just trundled in without a plan for most of the partnership.
Can still win but we make it hard for ourselves and need to bowl better in the second innings..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 17, 2021, 09:44:06 pm
We are paper thin at times ... especially bowling to the (supposed) tail

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 08:26:18 am
Why Starc was picked in this test defies logic.   If he bitches about series fatigue after this match I'll spew up. This was the ideal game to give him a break and play Neser on his home deck.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 18, 2021, 12:42:54 pm
Warner's review confirms to me he has become the most selfish player since Steve Waugh, perhaps even more selfish than Steve Waugh, and Waugh was extraordinarily selfish.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 18, 2021, 01:10:03 pm
The only stat I've seen from Warne in this respect is the run out stat. Oh, and Waugh is a New South Welshman, and Warney is a Victorian. I'd say it's just sour grapes on Warne's part, based on :

1. the fact that Warne was dropped by Waugh for one test in 1999.
2. that Waugh refused to partake in Warne's yobbo-ish, frat boy antics.

https://www.espn.com.au/cricket/story/_/id/29172472/who-run-their-partners-most-international-cricket

Interesting that Warne brings up the "selfish" line every chance he gets. Waugh has barely said two words about it.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 18, 2021, 01:13:38 pm
Are you sure LP?  Commentators (Fleming) suggested otherwise.  I missed the original finger up call.  Wasn't it caught and then referred with LBW ruling him out?

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 01:23:33 pm
Waugh has stayed quiet, and  refused to chuck fuel on the fire,  which is a solid strategy ('control the communication' as the PR guys call it).

If you go through the archives, history is littered with incidents concerning the Waugh(s) and Victorians, of which Warne is obviously one.   The deep seated antipathy seemed to start with sledging during Shield games,  the Elliot incident didn't win friends,  and dropping Warne in the Caribbean for MacGill caused a lot of bad blood. Coupled with a perception that Victorian players (Jones,  Elliot,  Hodge) were overlooked for NSW players and you get the picture.

Neither state has particularly liked each other at state level for decades. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 18, 2021, 01:37:38 pm
I'm sure all professional players have a vested interest in their performance, and you could make a case for any number of players in AFL, cricket etc. being perceived as selfish.  Warne has conducted a one man attack on Waugh for ages. The only other person of note to buy into this was Ian Chappell, who also rips into Bradman and Botham. I'd suggest all these blokes are motivated by personal grievances rather than any genuine attempt at character analysis.

Warne isn't exactly humble and selfless himself.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 18, 2021, 01:47:42 pm
Warne was 100% right to turn down an "instruction" from Waugh that they wear their Test Caps to Wimbledon.  Waugh was absolutely self centered in thinking they'd follow suit but he always was that way inclined.  There are other examples of that
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 03:38:41 pm
Why is it that Australia seemingly has to always take all the risks to win games,  while other countries sit back and wait?  Maybe we should sit on the splice for three days and drag everything to five day draws.

I for one am pleased that at least Australia has tried to push the game forward.   If the (inevitable) collapse occurs chasing the win,  then I say,  well done boys,  at least you had a go.  And to the usual media pile on, a big  👆 you.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 07:04:32 pm
So Sharma scratches guard and shadows bats while in the field... WHERES THE MEDIA PILE ON!?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 18, 2021, 08:54:31 pm
So Sharma scratches guard and shadows bats while in the field... WHERES THE MEDIA PILE ON!?!
Think he was taking the piss out of Smith who was watching him and the media thought the same, I thought the umpires might have moved him and cracked down on what is stupid behaviour. I dont think he scratched guard and just shadow batted, its a practice thats needs to be stopped and I'd just ban fielders from doing it and fine them if they ignored a warning.
Another practice annoying me is bowlers and fielders who throw the ball back to the keeper in a temper and either hit the batsman or come close to doing it. Wade does it and I saw Singh do it as well,  bit sick of all these little tanties they throw without any warning from the umpires. Lyon threw one at Sundar that nearly hit him in the head after getting frustrated. We saw Bumrah knock the stumps over and nothing from the umps in the previous test and I'd be laying the law down to both teams that its going to cost the player fines if they sook up and play like kids.
Really pro sportsman are so spoilt and precious these days, you got the Indians complaining about no 5 star treatment due to covid restrictions ie they had to make their own beds?? and these bratish tennis players complaining they have to isolate without any practice etc etc and be locked up for a week or two to protect the community.
Either follow the rules or go home and stop whinging, their own countries are rife with covid and they have the cheek to question our security lockdown measures that are keeping them safe...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 18, 2021, 09:15:22 pm
The Toorak luvvies must be beside themselves. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 18, 2021, 09:32:55 pm
I am not feeling confident about tomorrow, weather or otherwise.
[1] Bowlers:
Apart from one brilliant performance (1st test), our bowlers have lacked penetration when we have really needed it. And they have not been able to get the ball the move much in the air or off the wicket.
The Indian bowlers have a lot more movement, and not just with the new ball. They have been able to produce it at vital times, while our bowling has looked pedestrian and ineffective.
And then Lyon hasn't been able to spin them out either. He has had a very poor tour and has rarely been able to penetrate, no matter what the pitch was like.
They are good players, but they are not moving the ball of the straight and narrow. Where has the movement gone?

[2] Pitches:
When we go the India, we get provided with some of the worst pitches in the ball. They are often rolled mud with some grass cuttings interspersed.  Considering that they can now produce much better pitches (and that they have some decent pace bowlers), I find it very irritating.
Why?
They are doctoring the pitch to best suit their spinners (especially as they know our guys don't play spin that well).
So, why is the boot not on the other foot?
The last two times that India have come here, we have provided some of the most un-Australian pitches ever seen in this country. Where is the bounce? Especially at the 'Gabba! And do they play in Perth, on the other fast pitch? No.
I find that hard to fathom. If our batsmen and bowlers like fast, bouncy pitches, why don't we produce them?
Another point here is the BCCI appear to have too much say (in just about everything). The 1st test should have been in Brisbane, when the weather was more predictable (November or early December). As it was the weather in Brisbane has not been conducive to making good pitches, due to the rain. But this one is something of a joke.
The last point on the pitches is that the modern Australian pitch does not wear like pitches elsewhere. One of the reasons is the drop-in pitches. They hold together so well that teams in the 4th innings often have some of the flattest batting conditions.

[3] Our batsmen:
Very few batsmen can hold their heads high in this tour, but we have the top 2 performers by some margin. Even so, our batting has been lacking. There is no consistency and we haven't been able to produce any match winning partnerships. Are the Indian bowlers do good? or are we so bad?

[4] Mental battle:
At the moment, we do not appear to have the self-belief that Australian sides in the past had. India, on the other hand, do. Where has that mental edge gone? What can we do to get it back?
Until our batsmen, in particular, get their mojo back, our team is not going to perform at its best.
And I don't mean the arrogance and stupidity that got some of our players suspended not long ago, I mean the will to pull out match changing efforts. D. K. Lillee had it in spades. So have others, most noticeably in our period of dominance.  But, in recent times, our bowlers and batsmen seem to lack it. Particularly Starc.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 18, 2021, 11:40:46 pm
Crash - it's very frustrating.  Drop in pitches ensure loss of character of the 'natural' pitches - a bit like $10 wine - doesn't matter what bottle, if the grape is the same, it will taste the same.

A couple of things:
20/20 has changed the focus of cricket from a contest to run scoring.  Test cricket is about the contest.  A great test match is first innings both done mid day 3 with a difference of 30-50 runs and a run chase of 230 on a deteriorating wicket finishing on the fifth day.  A good 20/20 or 50 over game is described through the runs scored not wickets taken.  Can you imagine a 20/20 where the score is 75 to 78, because the pitch was a bit green?  There would be an outcry.

Bowlers are sacrificed for batting pitches and have to contain, as there aren't often suitable conditions for them to utilise.

From what I gather, our bowlers haven't spent a huge amount of time trying to get the batsmen out, rather bowled without imagination, getting the balance between bouncers and line and length wrong.

The Australian cricket program is now pretty poor in terms of test match prep.  Players were getting picked for tests on 20/20 form.  This does appear to be changing, but there isn't enough Shield Cricket around the test matches.  I'm not sure of the quality of Shield matches (they tried to address this to some point this season, but got interrupted).  Travis Head's first class batting average is under 40.  What are we expecting of him at test level?  We all know Wade's limitations, yet he gets selected and people don't vehemently disagree - first class average is a tick over 40.  At least Cam Green's is over 50.  Who are the others putting up their hand?

I'll actually forgive the batting to some degree.  When you know we're going to be 2 for nothing with the openers out, then it is pretty tough.  There aren't many screaming out to be opening for Australia.

Overall, I'm not sure of the quality of the Australian Second XI.

Finally, there doesn't appear to be a strong captaincy candidate.  We need a Tubby, or AB - both managed to get a lot out of their players.  Waugh and Ponting had a couple of great sides that didn't really need captaining.  Tim Paine has repaired some damage that was done to the image of the team, but we need a captain that is great tactically.  Two Victorians spring to mind, so that won't happen, but Finch and Maxwell certainly understand the game and can inspire.  Henriques is also a good skipper, but not up to international level.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 19, 2021, 07:30:25 am
Oh for the days of Mark Taylor !!!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 19, 2021, 07:37:19 am
We all know Wade's limitations, yet he gets selected and people don't vehemently disagree - first class average is a tick over 40.  At least Cam Green's is over 50.  Who are the others putting up their hand?
I suspect he's there for the same reason as Paine, to be the older heads that keep Warner, Smith and the rest of the NSW Cricket Mafia in check!

The long term solution to CA problems is breaking the NSW/MCC monopoly over County Cricket access, everybody in cricket knows the problem, nobody is brave enough to speak it as careers are put at risk! Too often I hear stories of talented kids walking away from cricket because of demands placed on them from interstate, they basically blackmail teenagers/youth into leaving home or else!

Have you ever wonder why so many talented kids seem to end up playing cricket in NSW, it doesn't just happen to players after they are a 1st Class success, it starts when they are 15 or 16 and want a gig on a tour or in the UK! They get offered the chance, with strings attached, mum and day proudly pack up little Jimmie to become a international cricketer, playing in NSW Grade cricket will be the best thing for him trust us. But the system is an abortion, it basically takes the best players from around the country and makes them B-Grade fodder for the locals, while telling them they have a chance, but by birth that chance never really existed! Even the test players accept this, which is why blokes like Starc end up in NSW and welded into the test team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 11:41:46 am
So why isn't that out Blocker ?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 01:04:48 pm
Need to rebuild this test team.

Maxwell at six, rotate the bowlers through the side more.   They look shot.

India will go close to winning this.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 01:50:37 pm
Starc...pie chucker.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 02:21:58 pm
Get him off.   Rubbish from the pie chucker.

I told you blokes,  he should have been dropped for this match.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 04:51:52 pm
Need to rebuild this test team.

Maxwell at six, rotate the bowlers through the side more.   They look shot.

India will go close to winning this.
I'd bat Green at five and look at another allrounder at six, IMO Green is a batsman who I dont want burdened with too much bowling given his back looks to be still troubling him when he bowls as he doesnt stretch out. He is a good cricketer and I'd be wanting him as a batsman in the main.
I think we also need to look at Starc and Nathan Lyon being automatics as well.....Starc hasnt performed and I'd be looking at other quicks like Pattinson if fit.  I'd also be looking to play another spinner preferably a leggie depending on the wicket. Lyon has been a good bowler but he lacks penetration at times and on flat tracks I think a leggie on Aus  wickets is more dangerous.
Been impressed with Gill of India....calm temperament and very stylish, he will carve at some big scores given he can handle the bounce out here. I guess you have to expect India to have depth given their massive population and love of the game so its no surprise their B grade/net players are competent cricketers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on January 19, 2021, 06:18:30 pm
How humiliating to lose a test series to a “c” grade group of Indians. On Australian home soil. Sack the coach, selectors etc. Including a few players. Just keep letting sides break records that have stood for years dishing up rubbish cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 06:34:37 pm
Ducking disgraceful.

Watching Cummins bowl himself to exhaustion because they can't afford to go to Starc makes me angry. Hazekwoiod the same.  Where's the support!?!

Starc to never,  ever, ever,  play for Australia again.  Really,  really weak effort.

And we've got to many slow,  pathetic fielders like Harris.  Too fat and slow,  have to hide him because it's always two to him.

So angry right now.   Needed to set 350, didn't get it,  bowled wrong lines, lost to a third string side.   Pathetic and Paine will probably retire after this.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 06:44:58 pm
Beaten by a superior team / organisation. Aussies thought they just had to turn up after going 1-0. Bowlers failed, batsman failed, some serious soul searching I would have thought.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 06:46:24 pm
How humiliating to lose a test series to a “c” grade group of Indians. On Australian home soil. Sack the coach, selectors etc. Including a few players. Just keep letting sides break records that have stood for years dishing up rubbish cricket.
Makes us D grade then
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 06:51:45 pm
About as bad as it gets, Paine and Langar have to go IMO Paine just lets the game drift, over bowls Cummins and has no idea about field placings.
We learn nothing about bowling to Pant who just loves Aus conditions and probably turned the series, bowl the same lines hoping he will get himself out because we think he is just a slogger and start with the field back like we are bowling to a tailender.
Paine lets him play himself in and once he is in then he takes over. Starc as Prof said just bowled crape and gave up when Gill climbed into him and Lyon bowled like a Goat this series, the type that gets milked for runs.
Time for changes and a rebuild....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 19, 2021, 06:53:23 pm
Great win by the Indian second stringers - well deserved. Showed real grit and determination. Well done. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 06:55:32 pm
Lyon spent most of this match bowling the wrong line.   There was plenty there for him when started putting it outside off.

Bad captaincy and bad coaching.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 06:58:53 pm
Great win by the Indian second stringers - well deserved. Showed real grit and determination. Well done. 
Paul, Did they win it or did we lose it?..Credit to them as you say and some of their players were actually 3rd stringers who were not even in the test squad. This will go down in Indian cricket history as their greatest series win, this is probably better than our 1970 comeback vs the Pies to win the GF.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 07:00:31 pm
Great win by the Indian second stringers - well deserved. Showed real grit and determination. Well done. 
Indeed Paul. I heard SOD not he radio say the other day, what if the roles were reversed and the series was being played in India and the Aussies had their backs against the wall with their captain returning home and losing key players (say Smith, Labuschagne, Cummins etc), would the Aussies muster the courage to grind out wins? The no answer was resoundingly popular.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 07:02:00 pm
Paul, Did they win it or did we lose it?..Credit to them as you say and some of their players were actually 3rd stringers who were not even in the test squad. This will go down in Indian cricket history as their greatest series win, this is probably better than our 1970 comeback vs the Pies to win the GF.
You can only beat what's in front of you EB. The Indians showed grit, determination, courage, you name it. It was a great performance, Aussies got too darken cocky and they got their just deserts.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 07:09:10 pm
I reckon losing bowlers was a positive as they kept bringing in fresh players.   We just flogged the same group.

Ego and reputation is driving selection,  not production.   It has to stop.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 07:12:35 pm
Lyon spent most of this match bowling the wrong line.   There was plenty there for him when started putting it outside off.

Bad captaincy and bad coaching.
I'd like to see a young leg spinner introduced so we have more firepower, Lyon bowls well in Perth and Adelaide but is nothing special anywhere else...think his best at Brisbane is 4/69 so he isnt likely to run through a team and win you the game on the last day. He is economical but his test average overall is around 31-32 which isnt anything special IMO.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 19, 2021, 07:14:43 pm
Paul, Did they win it or did we lose it?..Credit to them as you say and some of their players were actually 3rd stringers who were not even in the test squad. This will go down in Indian cricket history as their greatest series win, this is probably better than our 1970 comeback vs the Pies to win the GF.

It's a hard question to answer EB, as it is with any game in any sport - both teams play their part. The Aussies had everything in their favor - ground, experience, history. I would have thought they would win easily, even if they played an ordinary, half rat juice brand.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 07:19:24 pm
You can only beat what's in front of you EB. The Indians showed grit, determination, courage, you name it. It was a great performance, Aussies got too darken cocky and they got their just deserts.
Dont disagree...we underestimated their fight and spirit and thought they would roll over but these modern Indian players are different and Kholi/Shastri have changed their mindset.
They play hard cricket and we are stuck in the past trying to play mind games instead of doing our homework on their players and concentrating on the basics. Paine and Langar have got to go and we need a fresh start with a captain and coach who can think/react better when the games on the line.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on January 19, 2021, 07:44:17 pm
This bowling group has shown on several occasions they cannot get the job done on the last day, especially Lyon.  Should have won the last two tests, but didn't get close in either on a spinning deck. 

Think Stokes in Ashes test as well.

They need to get a bit of snarl into the attack. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 19, 2021, 07:51:45 pm
Suck on that Langer ... duckhead.  If that's the catalyst for kicking his useless arse to oblivion, all good by moi.



Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on January 19, 2021, 08:27:53 pm
I am no cricket expert by a long way, but I LOVE Test Cricket. Don't watch the other stuff unless I'm desperate. Great result by India. Best effort I have ever, ever seen from a touring Indian team. Just kept producing. Tough, determined and so much better than our blokes. Even their 2nd stringers!
Given all of the above I do believe however we contributed a fair bit to the result by;
1. Bad selections
2. Bad coaching
3. Bad captaining
Our arrogance in the past was  tolerated when we had a multitude generational greats playing. Hell we were so good we used to rotate our bowlers between tests. Now I reckon there are about 5 players total who get a game.
Time to get rid of the deadwood and find more Greene's and Pucovski's
Still a great effort by India. Amazing. Wish I had of got on them in this last test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 08:35:40 pm
Don't know who the bowling coach is,  but should be sacked by 9.05 tommorrow.

Started with awful selections, compounded by awful bowling plans and poor execution of whatever half arsed plans were in place.   Seriously,  WTF line was Lyon bowling most of today? There was more than enough in that pitch for him to get the job done.   The others never found a dangerous length and they never hit the supposed cracks.

We'll never won't get trophy back in India either - doctored pitches and won't select the right side with a hope if winning.   Two spinners,  two pacemen and an all-rounder for starters. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 19, 2021, 08:49:58 pm
Congratulations to India. They deserved to win with their concentration and effort.

Now, Australia: where do I start? I think I said a lot the other day.
[1] Coaching Staff and technology:
I have no idea what our coaching staff do, except that Langer is the boss. Fair enough: I'm not going to bag him as he has worked hard turning us around after we imploded a COUPLE of years back. He also has a reputation for success.
However:
(a) We never seem to have done enough homework on opposition players. Our field placings looks nice and standard, but the ball generally doesn't go to our players.
(b) If there is a crack or ridge in the pitch, we can never seem to find it. Not even with GPS and pitch radar. Not for the first time, our bowlers have come up short on the last day. The Indians found the cracks and the worn patches. We did not. We didn't even appear to be bowling towards them.
(c) I do not know how much technology we employ, or use in team meetings and training. But we need to do more, so we can actually bowl to where opponents might be vulnerable. We don't do that enough.
Note this test, where we had no idea where to bowl to Pant, Washington Sundar, Shadoul Thakur or Pujara. We have improved against Pujara, as he didn't dominate this series, but we still struggle to get him out. Pant loves playing us as we bowl to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Against other countries, he can't get a game.
(d) Our bowlers do not appear to have a plan, especially when they aren't getting wickets. That is not just the bowlers' fault, but something we need to train to improve.

[2] Selectors:
It has been said that it is harder to get out of the Australian side than it is to get into it. There is a little too much truth in this for my tastes, particularly if the player comes from NSW.
(a) To put it simply, our selection techniques look old fashioned. We do not appear to select players on form. We do not manage our players, so they don't play themselves into oblivion. We do not select horses for courses. It might be good that players do not want to give their spot up, but that allows us to blood players and play the guys who are in the best form.
For example, Mitch Starc is a very up and down player who has injury issues. he is also very much a confidence player and, at the moment, his confidence is low. His pace has been fine, but where are his yorkers, one of his best weapons? Where is the movement through the air?
By identifying when he is in a down patch, we do not let him go back to the Sheffield Shield and find form. Instead we keep playing him and lowering his confidence.
If we went into the game with a stable of 4 - 6 past bowlers and select the ones that are going the best, we would be playing fewer guys who are out of form. And we do have some guys who are worth looking at.
Similarly with the batting. Guys fear losing their spot because they believe someone else who gets a chance might do better. If they were in a squad of 7 - 8 batsmen, they could be easily replaced and not have fear, as they are still in the squad. But it would allow us to mix and match and to play fit players in form.

[3] Sheffield Shield:
I quite like the Big Bash. It is quite entertaining and does help blood Australian players against the best going around. However, our test batsmen never play in it. Nor can our player easily come in or out of the test side when everybody else is playing limited overs cricket.
We should be having shield game going while at least 3 of the 5 usual summer tests are being played. That would give the selectors a much better opportunity to select the best in-form players available. The Big bash does not.
Also the Sheffield Shield is not getting the support it needs. We can only get test quality players by having guys playing under test-like conditions, and for their performances in that form meaning a lot more than it does now. At the moment, the Shield is sort of placed in wherever there is a gap in scheduling something else.
Mind you, one day cricket is also suffering from poor scheduling. It doesn't even get onto free-to-air TV, neither international or otherwise. Scheduling needs a lot of work, and maybe less international cricket. There is almost no time now between tests, which makes players struggle to back up. There is certainly no opportunity to find form during a test series for someone not travelling so well.

[4] Pitches:
This is also a problem in scheduling as much as anything. Putting a test in Brisbane at this time of year is not smart, as there is often considerable wet weather. The Brisbane test should held in November or early December, when conditions are at their best.
Similarly, Perth, best suited as the 2nd test in a series, when the temperature is not 41ºC every day.
Which brings me back to a topic I discussed a few days ago. Other teams generally prepare pitches that suit their team. Even England tries. So, why don't we?
India did not face a single fast, bouncy pitch on their entire tour, something supposedly in our favour. Instead there were games where the pitches suited India more than us. Note this one, which lacked the normal bounce. I've already brought up our inability to move the ball in the air and off the pitch, so I won't go there.
India no longer has the excuse to produce the poor pitches they did: they have lots of money, resources and ground staff. There is no good reason why they should not produce pitches up to our standard. But they don't, even though they actually have a decent number of quicker bowlers available. What do we get? Rolled mud that spins on the first day and never bounces higher than the stumps. Other countries do not have the money the BCCI has. I can understand why some of their pitches may be less than perfect. However, India has no excuse.
New Zealand generally produces pitches conducive to their attacks, no matter what that attack may be. We do not. That is little short of stupidity.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 10:05:02 pm
I am no cricket expert by a long way, but I LOVE Test Cricket. Don't watch the other stuff unless I'm desperate. Great result by India. Best effort I have ever, ever seen from a touring Indian team. Just kept producing. Tough, determined and so much better than our blokes. Even their 2nd stringers!
Given all of the above I do believe however we contributed a fair bit to the result by;
1. Bad selections
2. Bad coaching
3. Bad captaining
Our arrogance in the past was  tolerated when we had a multitude generational greats playing. Hell we were so good we used to rotate our bowlers between tests. Now I reckon there are about 5 players total who get a game.
Time to get rid of the deadwood and find more Greene's and Pucovski's
Still a great effort by India. Amazing. Wish I had of got on them in this last test.

x2
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 19, 2021, 11:36:04 pm
Great final session to watch.  Great that India decided to chase the runs - meant the game was alive until the last couple of overs and that all possible results were still on the table.

Overall the series was a good one to watch/follow with no side out of a game, apart from the India brain fade in Adelaide.  Pity the pitches were so placid.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 20, 2021, 08:44:56 am
I think that the bowling performance in Adelaide covered the fact that we were behind in basically every game and the chances of winning the series were actually slim.  Basically because we never picked the right side.

The side never delivered on the sum of its parts,  it was always making up for shortcomings, which left us chasing all the time.

We never had a successful opening pair,  Burns Warner Harris failed as openers, Pucovski rode luck and natural ability to post a score.  Why pick a half fit bloke off zero match play,  who's ego drove that howler of a call Alfie?

The middle order was very fragile and didn't build on what Smith and Marrus contributed (normally a recovery from a poor start) .  Green and Paine did OK with the bat,  but scores weren't pushed out to good totals.   We never had enough runs.  Lower order batting was also poor.

The bowling was patchy,  with bewildering plans in place and WTF lines and lengths employed.   Starc, going at 4 an over and not maintaining pressure was a real problem.   Needs to find the ability to swung the ball again or be replaced.   Lyon tried to be too cute with???  lines,  although Blocker's assessment of what constitutes a shot didn't help.   Note,  playing with the bat behind the pad is not a legitimate shot,  it's a bluffing tactic used in the subcontinent against spinners.  Green's bowling was very disappointing,  reminds me of Watson.   Straight,  fast and meh.  He's coming back from injury but I didn't see any bite.    Why weren't the bowlers rotated when tired, - looks like more Langer bloodymindedness, which I believe contributed much to this poor performance.

Our fielding, normally a strong point,  was exceptionally bad.  Paine's keeping was messy and poor and we have too many slow fielders lacking mobility who don't turn half chances into wickets - Head,  Puckovski,  Harris - they all look too chunky and need to improve their mobility drastically. Head and Harris are serial droppers.

Hopefully some good will come out of the post Morten,  but in reality we never put out a good enough team to be this mob.   Too many passengers.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 20, 2021, 09:14:30 am
I think that we underestimated India and didn’t do our homework on the replacements, but what great depth India has!

They played brave cricket to go for the win and that let us in with a chance.  Sadly, our bowling tactics and field placings were lacking and hard to understand.  There’s a sameness about our bowling attack and Green’s inability to take a wicket didn’t help.

Integrity has become important since sandpapergate but, if it was applied across the board, Langer and the selectors would be lining up to hand in their letters of resignation.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 20, 2021, 09:30:14 am
Green doesn't look fit bowling wise either, very slow stilted run up and I think his back isn't right to bowl quick or for long periods.
Paines batting is just ok imo, you wouldn't pick him as a batsman only like you would Pant, Dekock, Butler,  and his keeping has to be A grade to make up for it and it wasn't this series. Less said about his tactics, field placings either, new batsman need attacking normal fields not everyone on the boundary ie Pant and he does the same with Stokes.It's like he has given up trying to get them out but is waiting for them to get themselves out and when it's the big game changing moments you have to be proactive and make things happen which he doesn't. Having a 4th slip after edge after edge went through isn't rocket science either. Rahane plays with a angled bat which demands a full slips cordon, not a massive gap between 3rd and Gully you could drive a truck through.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 21, 2021, 01:44:34 pm
Congratulations to India. They deserved to win with their concentration and effort.

Now, Australia: where do I start? I think I said a lot the other day.
[1] Coaching Staff and technology:
I have no idea what our coaching staff do, except that Langer is the boss. Fair enough: I'm not going to bag him as he has worked hard turning us around after we imploded a COUPLE of years back. He also has a reputation for success.
However:
(a) We never seem to have done enough homework on opposition players. Our field placings looks nice and standard, but the ball generally doesn't go to our players.
(b) If there is a crack or ridge in the pitch, we can never seem to find it. Not even with GPS and pitch radar. Not for the first time, our bowlers have come up short on the last day. The Indians found the cracks and the worn patches. We did not. We didn't even appear to be bowling towards them.
(c) I do not know how much technology we employ, or use in team meetings and training. But we need to do more, so we can actually bowl to where opponents might be vulnerable. We don't do that enough.
Note this test, where we had no idea where to bowl to Pant, Washington Sundar, Shadoul Thakur or Pujara. We have improved against Pujara, as he didn't dominate this series, but we still struggle to get him out. Pant loves playing us as we bowl to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Against other countries, he can't get a game.
(d) Our bowlers do not appear to have a plan, especially when they aren't getting wickets. That is not just the bowlers' fault, but something we need to train to improve.


Kerry OKeefe was on this from almost the start - he has been long praising the Indian's analystics department.  They had a set field and a set plan for every Aus batsman.  You are right in saying we just had the SAME field for every Indian batsman - doesnt look like much homework.  Esp considering many of our coaches and perifery (ie Ponting) have spent so much time in the IPL - surely we could get some first hand intel on all these guys?

The one thing that jumped out to me on the Amazon doc, was when Langer bought in an analtyics guy for the Ashes.  a) Why the fck did he have to bring one in, why isnt there one on staff, b) the Analytics guy basically said "hit the top of off" - no sht mate!!,  c) they didnt really seem to take him seriously

How many coaches, paid how much, with how much time with the team, and we dont seem to have decent plans for each batsman????
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 21, 2021, 01:51:04 pm
The bowling was patchy,  with bewildering plans in place and WTF lines and lengths employed.   Starc, going at 4 an over and not maintaining pressure was a real problem.   Needs to find the ability to swung the ball again or be replaced.   Lyon tried to be too cute with???  lines,  although Blocker's assessment of what constitutes a shot didn't help.   Note,  playing with the bat behind the pad is not a legitimate shot,  it's a bluffing tactic used in the subcontinent against spinners.  Green's bowling was very disappointing,  reminds me of Watson.   Straight,  fast and meh.  He's coming back from injury but I didn't see any bite.    Why weren't the bowlers rotated when tired, - looks like more Langer bloodymindedness, which I believe contributed much to this poor performance.


Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".  Did we see a single aussie ball deviate in the air?  They are so concerned with banging it in just short of a length to dry up runs, they dont give it a chance to swing.  Green hoops it all over the place for WA, then pulls on the baggy green and is gun barrell straight.... im sure thats due to following the team rules and being to scared to pitch it up
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 03:43:14 pm
Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".
T20 has killed off swing bowling, there is hardly a single kid going around who can get it off dead straight!

Scrambled seam is the new black, but it's a very boring colour!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 21, 2021, 03:46:03 pm
Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".  Did we see a single aussie ball deviate in the air?  They are so concerned with banging it in just short of a length to dry up runs, they dont give it a chance to swing.  Green hoops it all over the place for WA, then pulls on the baggy green and is gun barrell straight.... im sure thats due to following the team rules and being to scared to pitch it up
Our bowlers dont swing the ball like other teams, Starc does on occasions when he gets his act together but its more a hit the deck and seam it type attack which will probably do well in South Africa who have the same type of pitches and bowlers.
Your point is a good one though and Mark Taylor wants Sayers and Worrall to be considered when necessary with Starc to miss out. I think Neser or Abbott might get a game in the near future.
 Green is impressive but after Cummins and crew have bowled he looks like a medium pacer and I think the Indians viewed him as light relief. I wouldnt want to over bowl him or make him step up his pace as he looks the injury prone type and we need him for his batting. Maybe he can bowl 130-135km and concentrate more on swinging the ball and leave the bouncers etc the frontline bowlers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 21, 2021, 03:52:58 pm
T20 has killed off swing bowling, there is hardly a single kid going around who can get it off dead straight!

Scrambled seam is the new black, but it's a very boring colour!
Thought the new kids Shardul and Natajaran swung the ball well for India, the former looks a real player as he can bat and get his pace up to 140km as well. IMO the AUS pitches/condition are all about 6'6" bowlers hitting the deck hard and trying to intimidate the opposition and swing bowlers are more of a novelty. When banana bender bowlers like Boult and Southee struggle to swing it when they play in Aus who would want be a swing bowler?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 04:24:26 pm
Thought the new kids Shardul and Natajaran swung the ball well for India, the former looks a real player as he can bat and get his pace up to 140km as well. IMO the AUS pitches/condition are all about 6'6" bowlers hitting the deck hard and trying to intimidate the opposition and swing bowlers are more of a novelty. When banana bender bowlers like Boult and Southee struggle to swing it when they play in Aus who would want be a swing bowler?
And we give the kookaburra the heave-ho to placate the pommie bastards!

For the Duke, which is now of course owned and made in India, more BCCI tenticles?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 21, 2021, 04:27:29 pm
The scary thing about Indian cricket is that their Test players aren't all from private schools now.  Now wonder they have such depth!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 04:31:50 pm
The scary thing about Indian cricket is that their Test players aren't all from private schools now.  Now wonder they have such depth!
Are you seriously asserting privilege derails, subdues or obstructs progress? :D

How does that work with the caste system? :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 21, 2021, 04:48:49 pm
For the Duke, which is now of course owned and made in India, more BCCI tenticles?

LP

"Currently, the red Dukes cricket ball is used by England, West Indies and Ireland for Test matches. India tends to prefer the locally-manufactured SG cricket ball while the other Test-playing nations use the Australian-manufactured Kookaburra ball".

That's the info I have and not sure they're (the Dukes) are made in India ... perhaps Pakistan
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 05:42:21 pm
LP

"Currently, the red Dukes cricket ball is used by England, West Indies and Ireland for Test matches. India tends to prefer the locally-manufactured SG cricket ball while the other Test-playing nations use the Australian-manufactured Kookaburra ball".

That's the info I have and not sure they're (the Dukes) are made in India ... perhaps Pakistan
I thought that SG bought out the old Duke factory a year or two back, I recall watching a story about it during the last ashes.

I know Australia dominates the sales of the fancy coloured stuff for T20 and ODI, white. yellow, pink, orange, etc., etc. I'm not sure about the traditional pills.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 21, 2021, 06:15:42 pm
Are you seriously asserting privilege derails, subdues or obstructs progress? :D

How does that work with the caste system? :o
Shubmann Gill is from a well to do family and his father had the plantation/farm workers giving him throw down bouncers to practice his skills...seemed to work well.
Conversely I think Natajaran was plucked from obscurity and his parents were of a humble village background so India must have a very wide network of talent scouts combing all the states and watching cricket at all levels.
The IPL has become a fertile grounding for Indian players and they receive coaching from some of the best in the world both playing and retirees...ie Ricky Ponting is helping train some of those players who beat us and has had a lot to do with players like Pant. No doubt money and resources are huge like the population and its hard to see them ever falling over like what happened to
the West Indies after they ruled world cricket for a decade.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 21, 2021, 06:17:50 pm
I understand that British Cricket Balls Ltd still makes Dukes balls.  The company has been owned by an expat Indian since the mid 1980s.

The wording of the descriptions of the range of Dukes cricket balls suggests that only the top of the range balls are still manufactured entirely in England:

https://www.dukescricket.co.uk/Dukes_Cricket/Cricket_balls.html
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 10:50:27 pm
I understand that British Cricket Balls Ltd still makes Dukes balls.  The company has been owned by an expat Indian since the mid 1980s.

The wording of the descriptions of the range of Dukes cricket balls suggests that only the top of the range balls are still manufactured entirely in England:

https://www.dukescricket.co.uk/Dukes_Cricket/Cricket_balls.html
Fair enough, I'm probably wrong but I'm sure I watched a doco during the last Ashes series talking about the takeover of Duke by an Indian Sporting goods maker SG. The deal was that Duke gain access to a coloured pill technology that competes with Kookaburra, allowing Duke to market coloured pills. To be fair I can't recall if they said manufacture of the traditional balls was moving to India or perhaps it was just the coloured stuff.

It could be that SG bought the old Dukes factory, and Dukes moved to the new location, that might be where I've got it wrong.

I do remember a whole segment in the doco showing the SG using the traditional Dukes techniques for the manufacture of first class pills, all still done by hand.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 22, 2021, 09:30:51 am
And we give the kookaburra the heave-ho to placate the pommie bastards!

For the Duke, which is now of course owned and made in India, more BCCI tenticles?

I thought we started using the Duke, for half of the Shield season, so that our guys would have experience with it, prior to an Ashes tour.  Unlike previous tours, where the first time some guys saw a Duke was when they openned a bag of balls in the first net session of the tour.  Actually seemed like a rare logical decision for CA
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 22, 2021, 10:01:02 am
@LP Perhaps SG manufactures cricket balls for finishing by BCB.  Their website indicates diminishing English involvement in manufacture as you go down the range.  I can imagine a wizened old gaffer sitting at a scarred workbench and lovingly stitching Dukes balls destined for Test cricket.  I hope he has an apprentice  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 22, 2021, 11:33:13 am
I have a display for my stuff and on one shelf are a pair of RH gloves and in each hand are brand new Kookaburra balls, test and one day.

https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;sa=tmpattach;attach=post_tmp_827_513ea1ca3650f075674ef31263e705da;topic=5301

They weren't cheap and that was 20 years ago
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 22, 2021, 12:57:10 pm
@LP Perhaps SG manufactures cricket balls for finishing by BCB.  Their website indicates diminishing English involvement in manufacture as you go down the range.  I can imagine a wizened old gaffer sitting at a scarred workbench and lovingly stitching Dukes balls destined for Test cricket.  I hope he has an apprentice  :)
Not surprised, I remember the doco covering a whole bunch of supply issues.

 For example cattle have changed over the years, cowhides get thicker, thinner or change characteristics subject to breeding practises, so sourcing the right leather is becoming a big issue. Not surprising when you hear it mentioned, everything we humans do to "make stuff better" has some form of unintended impact.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 22, 2021, 01:05:06 pm
Nice display, Capcom.  I think the international balls are still hand made >$120 each (possibly $150 by now).  The 2 piece balls that we play with are $50+ each.  This season with all games being one dayers, it is expensive!

As an aside, a lot of comps have the first couple of grades playing in coloured clothes for one dayers.  The have now reverted to whites, as Kookaburra don't have enough stock of white balls to cover the number of one dayers!

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on January 22, 2021, 01:47:52 pm
This bowling group has shown on several occasions they cannot get the job done on the last day, especially Lyon.  Should have won the last two tests, but didn't get close in either on a spinning deck. 

Think Stokes in Ashes test as well.

They need to get a bit of snarl into the attack.

The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 22, 2021, 04:06:20 pm
The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood
Some fair points Jim, I go with Whiteman at the top of the order.....Saffies attack isnt bad with Rabada and fellow quick Anrich Nortje who is express so I would expect making runs will be hard work but their batting is poor with only Elgar and Dekock as consistent players.
Pity Pattinson isnt fit as he would be my ideal Starc replacement although I am sure Starc will play, Lyon is a question mark player
for me, has a bowling average of 40 vs the Saffies and their grounds are not big. He probably starts 1st test but I'd have Swepson in the touring party as insurance.Like to see Labuschange get more overs, he bowls some rubbish but also bowls some decent stuff and you have to try and fiddle wickets every now and then and its an area Paine struggles to do.
Lot of pressure on Warner who has a good record vs the Saffies and of course Smith, you would expect flat hard wickets again in SA which suits their quicks and I think Warner can turn it around in this short series and be a match winner.
I like Carey but is only averaging 34 in 1st class cricket and thats not enough to demand a place IMO....if I was going a new keeper it would be Ingles from WA and Whiteman would be my reserve keeper.
Pucovski with his concussion issues is  going to be tested with the short stuff  and we will see what he is made of, Saffies play it tougher than most teams and with Nortje going at 156kmh in the IPL its going to be a barrage of bouncers IMO so I hope the umpires are of the neutral variety and not all from Saffie land.
I'll go Aus 2-1 as I expect the players under pressure like Warner and Starc to deliver, should be fun to watch too as the Saffie Crowds are a bit like Collingwood ferals and really give it to our blokes and I expect sandpaper sales to increase for the 1st test..😜
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on January 22, 2021, 04:53:31 pm
Some fair points Jim, I go with Whiteman at the top of the order.....Saffies attack isnt bad with Rabada and fellow quick Anrich Nortje who is express so I would expect making runs will be hard work but their batting is poor with only Elgar and Dekock as consistent players.
Pity Pattinson isnt fit as he would be my ideal Starc replacement although I am sure Starc will play, Lyon is a question mark player
for me, has a bowling average of 40 vs the Saffies and their grounds are not big. He probably starts 1st test but I'd have Swepson in the touring party as insurance.Like to see Labuschange get more overs, he bowls some rubbish but also bowls some decent stuff and you have to try and fiddle wickets every now and then and its an area Paine struggles to do.
Lot of pressure on Warner who has a good record vs the Saffies and of course Smith, you would expect flat hard wickets again in SA which suits their quicks and I think Warner can turn it around in this short series and be a match winner.
I like Carey but is only averaging 34 in 1st class cricket and thats not enough to demand a place IMO....if I was going a new keeper it would be Ingles from WA and Whiteman would be my reserve keeper.
Pucovski with his concussion issues is  going to be tested with the short stuff  and we will see what he is made of, Saffies play it tougher than most teams and with Nortje going at 156kmh in the IPL its going to be a barrage of bouncers IMO so I hope the umpires are of the neutral variety and not all from Saffie land.
I'll go Aus 2-1 as I expect the players under pressure like Warner and Starc to deliver, should be fun to watch too as the Saffie Crowds are a bit like Collingwood ferals and really give it to our blokes and I expect sandpaper sales to increase for the 1st test..😜

I'm not so worried about Carey's first class average. Often they can be lower. There's often reasons for that. They come in young, pitches are made for 4 days instead of 5 etc. I more look at current form. Michael Clarke only had an average of 34 when he played his first Test. We knew he was ready though. I look at current form more than anything.  Starc would have to improve alot. That was a very poor, series losing season for him. Jhye Richardson is the best of the bowlers outside of the one's in the side and he would be my first choice.

I'm a big believer in leadership and often the sides plays in the mould of the captain. Hence no way I go with Paine. Too many 5th days failure when under pressure. Plus he dropped catches and missed stumping, which cost us the series. Batting ok but he's there for his keeping, which has crashed. Happens at 36yo. Unfortunately for his captaincy too, which was something horrible. He's goes to the retirement.

Lyon is just in.  As you said, wouldn't want to struggle the First Test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 22, 2021, 07:00:44 pm
I'm not so worried about Carey's first class average. Often they can be lower. There's often reasons for that. They come in young, pitches are made for 4 days instead of 5 etc. I more look at current form. Michael Clarke only had an average of 34 when he played his first Test. We knew he was ready though. I look at current form more than anything.  Starc would have to improve alot. That was a very poor, series losing season for him. Jhye Richardson is the best of the bowlers outside of the one's in the side and he would be my first choice.

I'm a big believer in leadership and often the sides plays in the mould of the captain. Hence no way I go with Paine. Too many 5th days failure when under pressure. Plus he dropped catches and missed stumping, which cost us the series. Batting ok but he's there for his keeping, which has crashed. Happens at 36yo. Unfortunately for his captaincy too, which was something horrible. He's goes to the retirement.

Lyon is just in.  As you said, wouldn't want to struggle the First Test.
I think Paines batting is inflated by not outs and where he bats, he isnt in the same parish as Pant, DeKock, Butler, Bairstow, Watling etc as a batsman and his keeping which was his forte has dropped off.
I dont mind Richardson but I think Abbott or Neser will start ahead of him as long as Langar/Paine are running the team.
With no Paine I reckon we would go with Cummins as captain which isnt ideal IMO, Ian Chappell wants Warner but that wont happen and Smith is the other option but I wouldnt be returning him in SA as Captain at the scene of the crime.
Interesting that Maxwell and Finch have been told by Victorian cricket they are finished at Shield level too so they wont be returning as test players...Finch might have been an outside chance to captain Australia if he had some form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 24, 2021, 06:36:45 pm
Paine could have had a much longer career had it not been for injury: he missed a lot of cricket over the years. The reason he was so highly rated was his keeping first and foremost. His batting was potentially good, good enough to open for Tasmania. but his results with the bat have never equaled his theoretical potential.

Paine has been quite a reasonable captain for us, especially as he took the job on in very difficult circumstances. But at his age, cracks are appearing. He is 36, which does explain how his keeping has dropped off. He is still one of the better keepers, but he is on the decline.
So, do we look to the future?

There are a number of good young keepers going around, a number of which are decent batsmen. Carey appears to be leading the pack, but he has played little first class cricket since entering the Australian white ball squads.
Nor is he alone in this area. Adam Zampa could be considered as a spinning option, but for the fact that he hasn't played any first class cricket of note in over a year.
How are these guys going to impress in the test arena, if they play so little multiple day cricket games?

If Paine is put out to pasture, something that must happen sooner or later, then the captaincy issue will become acute.
(a) Smith has made a good return to test cricket, but I wouldn't give him the captaincy again. He was a great performer, but not a great captain. while he had the job.
(b) Warner has the aggression as a captain that could be useful. However, like Shane Warne in his day, his copy book is blotted. Warne was a fantastic captain, especially in the field. But his behaviour kept him from showing it very often. The same for Warner. And he isn't getting any younger either.
(c) Cummins appears to have the tactical nous and the ability as a bowler to be a great leader, but one of the secrets of captaincy is the ability to make clutch decisions. A man who has bowled 20+ overs in a day is going to be tired. It is natural. Tired people do not generally make the best decisions. It is the reason so few fast bowlers have been captain in the history of the game.
(d) There have been rumours about that Glenn Maxwell and Aaron Finch, both of whom have excellent captaincy credentials, have been informed that their future at Sheffield Shield level is limited. That definitely stops either of them from parachuting into the Captaincy. Neither is young either. Finch is 34 and is past his peak, even in the white ball game. He has been excellent in recent times, but he cannot survive another form drop like he had a couple of years back.
(e) Marnus Labuschagne might be an answer: his spot in the team looks very solid. However, he hasn't had a lot of captaincy experience to date. I don't know if he has the tactical nous for the job yet.
(f) The selectors gave Head a long go as VC, as he does have some captaincy ability. However, he is no certainty to regain his place and doesn't look like his spot would ever be a given.
(g) Matthew Wade has good captaincy skills, but his place as a batsman is slipping away. He is not young either. Apparently he is colourblind, something I only just discovered. His keeping days are behind him.

At some point, Cricket Australia is going to have a hard choice on at least 2 fronts. Do they bite the bullet now, and allow the newbies to grow into the positions available before the Ashes? or do they wait for performances to drop off further?

To add to that, we also have the question of an aging spin attack. Nathan Lyon, who has been brilliant for us, the best off-spinner ever to play for Australia, is showing signs of 'decay'. He really struggled against India and could barely get a wicket or stop the runs. He is 33 and not getting better (except maybe his batting).
Who are the next spinners we have? Are any of them ready for test cricket? And how do we tell, when we produce pitches than don't wear much?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 25, 2021, 05:16:31 pm
The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood

Amen - love this post. Agree with all of it.  And agree 100% with that team (with a fit jimmy patto as next choice quick)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 26, 2021, 07:31:59 am
My problems with this team mainly revolve around the openers..... Cameos Khawaja,  who has played one decent innings versus off spin in a totally unfulfilled career, and a fading Warner,  with his completly on/off form over the past two years,  plus he'll be crucified by the SA crowds etc.   CA are as weak as piss, stood by and did F all while the whole SA set up used gutter tactics to extreme levels. At the very least deKock should have been censured for his behaviour.  Fancy letting officials walk around with Sonny BW masks.  And we're the bad guys?

Longer term I still reckon Renshaw has what it takes to open,  just can't find the key to unlock whatever it is that's missing.

And that side is old,  too old. 

Left field,  but I'd pick Maxwell at six to offer a counter punching option and some spin,  plus at least he can field unlike other contenders.   Captained Victoria well at times too.  Why Neser also can't get a game staggers me,  oh wait,  he doesn't live in Bankstown or Manly.  No more NSW entitlement.  Too many inflated heads.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 26, 2021, 08:59:18 am
NSW cricket mafia pushing Sangha based on BB form,  what a dead set joke.   The spin cupboard must be awfully bare ATM.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 26, 2021, 10:01:17 am
Left field,  but I'd pick Maxwell .........................
If the news rags are accurate even Maxwell has given up on that dream ................ what is worse I've heard Maxwell and Finch have been told don't bother rolling up for Vic Shield cricket either! That's cutting them off at the source so that even if the weight of public opinion grows in their favour they'll have no basis for a claim.

This is how the cricket mafia works, it's tenticles cross all borders, even oceans.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 08:27:21 am
That's Cricket Victoria being straight out stupid, but then again, a lack of common sense and overt politicking have beset cricket at all levels for a long time.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 27, 2021, 08:31:22 am
That's Cricket Victoria being straight out stupid, but then again, a lack of common sense and overt politicking have beset cricket at all levels for a long time.
Or corrupt, where does the motivation come from.

It seems that fundamentally it is all about maximising dollars in the long term scheme of things, but for who?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 27, 2021, 11:53:14 am
If the news rags are accurate even Maxwell has given up on that dream ................ what is worse I've heard Maxwell and Finch have been told don't bother rolling up for Vic Shield cricket either! That's cutting them off at the source so that even if the weight of public opinion grows in their favour they'll have no basis for a claim.

This is how the cricket mafia works, it's tenticles cross all borders, even oceans.

Does seem a bit much if Vic rolls out  Finch, Maxwell, Handscome in the top 6 - half your top 6 with no real chance of playing test cricket again... should be trying to produce future test players (def dont drop them all, you do need some senior players to keep comp tough) - maybe this is the thinking?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 27, 2021, 12:10:45 pm
Wade axed from the test squad to South Africa and Carey in along with Steketee,... Abbott, Neser and Swepson have maintained their places in the squad. Not sure Paine will be thrilled seeing Carey in the squad and I think the pressure will be on him to perform as captain as well as with the gloves and bat.
Steketee may be the leading Shield quick this season in terms of wickets? but has also come from the BBL and bowls a reasonable line but IMO wont bother the Saffies or anyone else too much. Honest trier at best IMO.
Saffies are playing Pakistan and were rolled for 220 but their quicks are all over the Pakis and have them 4 for 30 odd which i think tells you plenty about how they roll as a test nation in todays cricket and we should find them a lot easier than the plucky Indians to dismiss, its whether we can stand up with the bat and I think Smith might give us the edge in that area given he is the standout batter in either team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 01:37:14 pm
Net bowler for Smith EB.

Went to a Cricket Vic session this morning EB,  there really is a purple circle on the white board (figuratively speaking) mate.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 02:12:19 pm
Only two Vics in the test squad,  might be time to rebuild because that's rubbish for the second most populous state.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 27, 2021, 03:06:25 pm
Only two Vics in the test squad,  might be time to rebuild because that's rubbish for the second most populous state.
As I've stated before, the world is gobsmacked our national team had no room for Maxwell, the rest of the planet rates him as one of the world's greats.

Maxwell is probably worth more the team just fielding in covers or gully than Head is with the bat!

Locally Maxwell is bagged for his erratic behaviour, yet many of the same people doing the bagging keep selecting Warner with impunity!

FMD, what has Zampa done wrong too, how does Swepson get a run ahead of that kid?

In comparison to Zampa, Swepson looks to be like a Pie Chucker who has the ability to deliver a one in a thousand unplayable ball, and then cannot repeat it! The first rule of good bowling, any bowling, is control, of course I write this and I presume they've picked Starc again! Starc is the test teams version of Liam Jones, a captain of chaos!

FMD, Henriques and Nesser, do we have to take our own commentary team? I'm pegging Moises for Captainano if Paine slips, and Carey will keep, Henriques now known as the Phoenix!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 08:31:52 pm
How on god's green earth does Henrique's make a test squad. Really!?!  FMD,  play for NSW get a baggy green in a brown paper bag...   Was finished five years ago.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 27, 2021, 09:00:15 pm
How on god's green earth does Henrique's make a test squad. Really!?!  FMD,  play for NSW get a baggy green in a brown paper bag...   Was finished five years ago.
Probably on the back of his BBL work Prof, I wonder if BBL form is more important than Shield form sometimes, makes no sense.Digressing to Purple circles and elitist matey groups, Maxwell has been rumoured not to be popular in the dressing room at test level and I wonder if this has halted his career
more than form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 09:50:26 pm
BBL form is not test form,  but our dumbass selectors just don't get it. No wonder we're sh1t at test level.   Why don't we just  pick Phillippe  and Darcy Short to open...and Maxwell!   Now there's some BBL form. I'm not bagging you EB,  but the eye stinging hypocrisy emanating from the selectors is just bewildering.   Moises Hen....I can't even type it,  it makes me nauseous.  It's devaluing the baggy green to a new low.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on January 28, 2021, 02:47:29 am
Test squad:
Tim Paine (C), Pat Cummins (VC), Sean Abbott, Alex Carey, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Moises Henriques, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Will Pucovski, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Mark Steketee, Mitchell Swepson, David Warner.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on January 28, 2021, 02:51:51 am
Given Pucovski's issues with the short ball, he will get plenty of practice in South Africa. I like the look of Green and he should improve on the tour, but I wonder about our top order against that attack. They will go after Smith and Labuschagne with a lot of short pitch stuff and leg slip fields as it has been successful before. Who makes the runs?

EDIT: I just checked the run-scorers list for 2020/21 season at shield level, Shaun Marsh is the real standout there not presently in the squad. I would like to see him added as reserve opener/top order filler. He can play the short ball and has the game to make runs in South Africa. Marsh has three hundreds and a fifty from four games whereas many others scored the bulk from one innings. It is a sad state we don't have more real competition outside of this group.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 07:42:26 am
BBL form is not test form,  but our dumbass selectors just don't get it. No wonder we're sh1t at test level.   Why don't we just  pick Phillippe  and Darcy Short to open...and Maxwell!   Now there's some BBL form. I'm not bagging you EB,  but the eye stinging hypocrisy emanating from the selectors is just bewildering.   Moises Hen....I can't even type it,  it makes me nauseous.  It's devaluing the baggy green to a new low.


That was the point I was making Prof, BBL skills don't translate to Test skills and we end up with players with poor techniques vs the moving ball etc who play wild short format shots at the wrong time. Don't see Henriques playing much cricket as a test tourist and is probably just backup for the injury prone Green.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 07:49:50 am
Given Pucovski's issues with the short ball, he will get plenty of practice in South Africa. I like the look of Green and he should improve on the tour, but I wonder about our top order against that attack. They will go after Smith and Labuschagne with a lot of short pitch stuff and leg slip fields as it has been successful before. Who makes the runs?

EDIT: I just checked the run-scorers list for 2020/21 season at shield level, Shaun Marsh is the real standout there not presently in the squad. I would like to see him added as reserve opener/top order filler. He can play the short ball and has the game to make runs in South Africa. Marsh has three hundreds and a fifty from four games whereas many others scored the bulk from one innings. It is a sad state we don't have more real competition outside of this group.
Agree on the short pitched stuff vs Smith, Pucovski and Marnus, though that wicket the Saffies and Pakis were playing on was lifeless and the ball was keeping low on day 2.
If Shaun Marsh is our saviour then we have real problems, can't see him playing for Aus again. Not sure how Head got in the squad either...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Baggers on January 28, 2021, 10:54:50 am
For the first time in decades I've watched precious little cricket this summer. Not sure whether it's poor selection or poor leadership or whatever, but it just seems that CA has lost direction and too many of our selection choices are not the best available. I hope it changes, and soon. I used to love the cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 28, 2021, 11:13:32 am
Much of the game has descended into a dumbed down circus ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 28, 2021, 12:24:37 pm
Test squad:
Tim Paine (C), Pat Cummins (VC), Sean Abbott, Alex Carey, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Moises Henriques, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Will Pucovski, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Mark Steketee, Mitchell Swepson, David Warner.

No Jhye Richardson is just wrong.  Just takes wickets (including at test level).  GIves a bit of difference to HWood and Cummins (pitches it up a bit more)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 28, 2021, 01:27:57 pm
No Jhye Richardson is just wrong.  Just takes wickets (including at test level).  GIves a bit of difference to HWood and Cummins (pitches it up a bit more)
On form you'd take Richardson over Starc without even blinking, on consistency you'd take Richardson over Starc without blinking, but Starc can bat even if he didn't deliver against India, and while we got such a soft batting line up I suspect Starc is welded into the line-up regardless of poor bowling form. Plus Starc moved the NSW which always means double the opportunity.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 01:30:23 pm
No Jhye Richardson is just wrong.  Just takes wickets (including at test level).  GIves a bit of difference to HWood and Cummins (pitches it up a bit more)
Been injury prone and I think the selectors want some more long game minutes from him, agree he is lively and bowls a good length. Its very hard to prise Starc and crew out of the team given the boys club that exists.....interesting that Pattinson has made the tour, if fit he might be the one bowler that may oust Starc from the team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 28, 2021, 01:58:12 pm
Been injury prone and I think the selectors want some more long game minutes from him, agree he is lively and bowls a good length. Its very hard to prise Starc and crew out of the team given the boys club that exists.....interesting that Pattinson has made the tour, if fit he might be the one bowler that may oust Starc from the team.
Pattinson and Richardson can both swing the ball late at good pace, Pattinson was the bowler most feared by the Pommie top order batsmen.

I think Starc cleaning up the tail with old ball reverse swing is valuable but over-rated, I'd much rather guys who can knock over the top end and let Lyon clean up the dregs while the others have a break.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 02:11:20 pm
Pattinson and Richardson can both swing the ball late at good pace, Pattinson was the bowler most feared by the Pommie top order batsmen.

I think Starc cleaning up the tail with old ball reverse swing is valuable but over-rated, I'd much rather guys who can knock over the top end and let Lyon clean up the dregs while the others have a break.
I think both Lyon and Starc struggled to clean up the tail and thats where some of our problems were...both got hammered and Starc hardly moved one off the straight yet the Indian net bowlers moved the ball. Starc was unlucky with some poor fielding but was generally was the bad Starc with no accuracy and bowling inane bouncers wide of the mark.
I wouldnt play him in the first test and go with Pattinson who swings the ball away from right handers even though the Saffies have a few decent left handers in Elgar and DeKock.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 30, 2021, 10:59:16 pm
I think both Lyon and Starc struggled to clean up the tail and thats where some of our problems were...

That is pretty much starc’s only job!!!  If he can’t do it, get Jhye or patto (who can bat!!) in
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 31, 2021, 01:20:40 pm
Travis Head is another who is really at the crossroads. I know it's only BB but his most recent dismissal in the BB was dreadful.  Trying to drag Marnus from wide of off,  that's not the shot of a bloke comfortable with his game.  He's running out of time to get his crap sorted out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 31, 2021, 03:46:18 pm
Travis Head is another who is really at the crossroads. I know it's only BB but his most recent dismissal in the BB was dreadful.  Trying to drag Marnus from wide of off,  that's not the shot of a bloke comfortable with his game.  He's running out of time to get his crap sorted out.
Head looked terrible, couldnt find the middle of the bat and wasted deliveries trying to slog, when you are struggling you push ones and get off strike but he couldnt even do that, how he made the South African trip is a mystery.
Richardson was ordinary last night and got pummeled by Vince the English player, yeah there was dew on the ball/outfield but he still got carted and couldnt contain what is a 2nd Eleven English player, much prefer Pattinson if he can get and stay fit.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 31, 2021, 06:44:41 pm
Yep,  Head was trash versus the heat,  what's wrong with knocking singles around to get in and going?  

I hate to say it EB,  but I reckon that Shaun Marsh is the best credentialed of the "other options" as an opening option.  I know he's 152 years old but he really is a solid player.   Problem is that you get one Marsh and you get the other.... Who is a good short form player but an utter crab at test level.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 31, 2021, 07:04:28 pm
Yep,  Head was trash versus the heat,  what's wrong with knocking singles around to get in and going?  

I hate to say it EB,  but I reckon that Shaun Marsh is the best credentialed of the "other options" as an opening option.  I know he's 152 years old but he really is a solid player.   Problem is that you get one Marsh and you get the other.... Who is a good short form player but an utter crab at test level.  

Marsh is averaging 97 in Shield cricket and Head 65 for 2021, hard to go back to Marsh for me though.
Looking through the entire batting order and options...
Inglis is averaging 118 at Shield level but is a keeper, do we do a India and play Inglis as a batsman like they do with Pant?
McDermott is the other with runs at Shield level but I still think of him as a BBL player...
Henriques is going at 67 but as discussed is a long way from test cricket and isnt young either...
Other option is Warner and Harris to open with Pukovski and Green at 5 and 6.
If I wanted another discrete opener I would go with Whiteman from WA, English born, good technique.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 01, 2021, 09:35:26 am
Another clueless dismissal by Cameos last night, wicket just thrown away when he was looking OK.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 01, 2021, 10:38:37 am
Another clueless dismissal by Cameos last night, wicket just thrown away when he was looking OK.
Over coached @Professer E‍.

His demise always looks premeditated, like he's a cricket robot that has been programmed or been coached in the moment and can't act in deference to the circumstance.

It reminds me of quite a few of those AFL footballers who to the fans will seem to do just the wrong thing at just the wrong moment, yet are loved by the coach.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 01, 2021, 12:00:21 pm
Don't understand it myself.... Running down the pitch and missing a very average spinner by a metre, saw better at U12s on Saturday.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 03, 2021, 12:31:58 pm
Saffie tour is off due to CoVid, Saffers not happy as they said they complied with all our demands. Was talk the series might have been played in Perth but Graham Smith now head of cricket in SA said a quick No to that idea.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 03, 2021, 12:34:35 pm
Saffie tour is off due to CoVid, Saffers not happy as they said they complied with all our demands. Was talk the series might have been played in Perth but Graham Smith now head of cricket in SA said a quick No to that idea.
I suppose this is off the back of the news about the SA COVID variant being perhaps even more infectious than the UK variant, as well as some reports claiming it is less susceptible(more resistant) to the vaccination regimes now on offer.

What does it mean for the two squads hypothesis?

@ElwoodBlues1 Where would you think it's safer to tour, Sth Africa or India?

 I ask because I suspect the bulk of the players will be back at the IPL as soon as possible regardless of the COVID situation.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 03, 2021, 12:44:25 pm
I suppose this is off the back of the news about the SA COVID variant being perhaps even more infectious than the UK variant, as well as some reports claiming it is less susceptible(more resistant) to the vaccination regimes now on offer.

What does it mean for the two squads hypothesis?

@ElwoodBlues1 Where would you think it's safer to tour, Sth Africa or India?

 I ask because I suspect the bulk of the players will be back at the IPL as soon as possible regardless of the COVID situation.
Yep its based around the SA CoVid variant......SA or India?...good question LP, Pakistan have/are touring SA and things seem ok and the SA Govt are saying they are on top of their second wave. I guess if you are playing IPL for big money it makes the choice easier but for me I'd prefer SA, the Saffers were sending their own team and staff into quarantine for 14 days prior to the series beginning and complying with most of what we asked for. Having travelled to India when I was younger I would be a bit more dubious of their healthcare measures..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on February 03, 2021, 01:16:08 pm
We likely out of the World Test Championship Final (WTC) unless results fall our way in the India v England Series. If bloody Tim Paine had've kept control of the over rate in Melbourne and not got WTC points docked  for it then Australia would be playing NZ. Between this, his awful panicky captaincy and catching in the last two Test, Paine has made a complete debauchery of Australia making the WTC final. Really shouldn't hold his job after his efforts against India. Batting was alright but he made a hash of everything else.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 03, 2021, 01:52:54 pm
We likely out of the World Test Championship Final (WTC) unless results fall our way in the India v England Series. If bloody Tim Paine had've kept control of the over rate in Melbourne and not got WTC points docked  for it then Australia would be playing NZ. Between this, his awful panicky captaincy and catching in the last two Test, Paine has made a complete debauchery of Australia making the WTC final. Really shouldn't hold his job after his efforts against India. Batting was alright but he made a hash of everything else.
NZ are now through and it's probably out of India and England to see if they can overtake us. Paine will keep the job for the ashes series now, on his last chance.
Be nice to see NZ win the test final if we don't make it...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 04, 2021, 12:52:47 pm
The whole things a scam EB,  the Indian's over rates were excremently bad all series  yet we get fined...   I smell a rat...really convenient that we're out the running via a penalty,  but the while test championship thing is a joke anyway.   Didn't we utterly flog NZ,  yet they are ranked above us?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 04, 2021, 02:13:32 pm

The whole things a scam EB,  the Indian's over rates were excremently bad all series  yet we get fined...  I smell a rat...really convenient that we're out the running via a penalty,  but the while test championship thing is a joke anyway.  Didn't we utterly flog NZ,  yet they are ranked above us?
We failed in our duty, we should have implemented a better slow over-rate policy, and made sure our policy resulted in action to mitigate slow over-rates.

If we are accused of slow over-rates;

1- Accuse the accuser of racism.

2 - Threaten to boycott the game, walk-off or end the series by packing up and going home.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 04, 2021, 03:32:52 pm
Exactly what id do after the first crap word comes over the fence when we're over there.

Apparently only white male Australians are racists. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 04, 2021, 03:37:57 pm
Exactly what id do after the first crap word comes over the fence when we're over there.

Apparently only white male Australians are racists.
The problem is the money situation isn't symmetric.

The BCCI have used IPL generated dollars to politically leverage the old establishment, I can't see that new order ever going away!

They do not need us, if we do not play nice with them, they can just play with themselves and still be rich and powerful! ;D

I think the old establishment made a mistake, they sold out for the BCCI/IPL dollars and they grossly failed to recognise or leverage in importance of prestige in sport! More than the dollars, someone like Kholi wants to be recognised as the best, all top sportspeople are like that, they do it for free in fact they might even pay their way to be there like an Olympian!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 04, 2021, 04:09:44 pm
The South African tour was cancelled because the return vs risk didnt stack up, Saffies are a minnow money wise and the only teams Australia want to play are India and England where the money stacks up. The CoVid risk gets thrown out the door when its the IPL of course...India rule all forms of the game and control world cricket with the money the generate, there will never be a level playing field for any other country especially in these CoVid times.
All the other countries will just fall into line even the sworn enemies like Pakistan when there is a rupee to be made.
Cricket has become a reality series which generates characters like Kholi whose personal life and what his baby is named is as important as his test average because it all makes money.
Everyone wants a slice of the Indian money, the ability to play a cross bat slog, reverse sweep or ramp shot is going to make you more money than a backward defensive shot with the elbow high and bat straight.
I'm waiting for the player who brings out a cricket book/manual that shows all the one day shots and the lack of technique/footwork required...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 04, 2021, 04:18:29 pm
Cricket has become a reality series which generates characters like Kholi whose personal life and what his baby is named is as important as his test average because it all makes money.
Agreed, no doubt about it, but there is no rule or relationship that prevents all that being distinct from the prestige of the established sport. Like the Tour de France, Augusta, Monacco, Lords, Wimbledon, there is money in it but it's not about the money.

I feel the old establishment needed to retain guardianship over the traditional game of cricket, and so preserve the prestige, not pander to the new world order.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 05, 2021, 07:33:13 am
Dunno EB,  had a big summer watching a lot of junior cricket,  including a fair bit of rep stuff.  The platitudes seem to go to the kids who flashily slog the the ball around,  but the top scorers and better teams played correct cricket.   People get caught up by those types that go big score X X X X big score,
whereas teams with more consistency seem to win more.   Fireworks are entertaining,  but accumulators/risk aversive batters do better.  Likewise,  the bowlers who stuck to the basics did better than the kids doing funky stuff or bowling express they can't control.   I live in hope EB.   Technique still has a place.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 05, 2021, 10:12:07 am
Prof, that's good to hear on a junior cricket front, I'm a technique man and enjoy the long form of the game being old school.
I get the short form pays the bills but it has ruined test cricket, the Windies players led by Chris Gayle have abandoned test cricket for the money security of the short formats. The South Africans abandoned local cricket for Kolpak deals in England and the money in the main playing all the county one day comps as registered local players.
There are about two teams only now you can play and make a dollar out of test cricket wise and they are India and England and their players are still schooled properly technique wise. I can only see techniques getting worse and park sloggers playing more test cricket given they will have higher profiles, more exposure and form given they play more cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 05, 2021, 10:47:51 am
I'll tell you right now EB that the standout kids standout because they have good technique.  The sluggers get found out.

Marnus has a solid technique and I wasn't surprised when he came in an did well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 13, 2021, 09:30:09 am
Something I detest in sport is cheating- drugs, rule bending,  gamesmanship,  loop hole pushing or plain old outright cheating.  

To this end,  an interesting interview with retired umpire Holder in today's Guardian.   A few countries appear to have skeletons in the cupboard regarding ball tampering,  including one from which media pundits have been most strident in their criticism of Australia's past actions.   I suspect that this was a big issue across the game for a long time,  and the exposure of the practice was used as an opportunity to expose it for what it is,  and to stamp it out.   I note that reverse swing has since become most uncommon,  except on particularly abrasive pitches such as the recent one in India.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 13, 2021, 01:04:44 pm
Something I detest in sport is cheating- drugs, rule bending,  gamesmanship,  loop hole pushing or plain old outright cheating. 

To this end,  an interesting interview with retired umpire Holder in today's Guardian.  A few countries appear to have skeletons in the cupboard regarding ball tampering,  including one from which media pundits have been most strident in their criticism of Australia's past actions.  I suspect that this was a big issue across the game for a long time,  and the exposure of the practice was used as an opportunity to expose it for what it is,  and to stamp it out.  I note that reverse swing has since become most uncommon,  except on particularly abrasive pitches such as the recent one in India. 
Anyone who has played cricket knows what goes on, only those who haven't or a outright liars will claim otherwise.

I've heard everything in suburban and district cricket from deep freezing the match ball overnight to mixing stuff into the sunscreen so that it makes the pill sticky for spinners. It's not always just about shine, the objective to make one half of the pill different in some way.

One of the best I heard was someone using a water-repellant varnish mixed in sunscreen to rub on the seam so that it stays dry and hard for longer. I doubt the efficacy of that mix, but I understand the thinking as moisture softens the seam, but I suspect sunscreen would soften it equally leaving the varnish ineffective. I believe the Poms would use a very specific brand of boiled lolly for the same purpose, a bit like Castlemaine Rock.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 15, 2021, 07:07:23 am
Good to see that the Indian spinners got exactly the pitch they wanted.... Funny how our bowlers get dead pitches at home.  But then again,  only Australians cheat don't they?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on February 15, 2021, 07:40:10 am
Good to see that the Indian spinners got exactly the pitch they wanted.... Funny how our bowlers get dead pitches at home.  But then again,  only Australians cheat don't they?

Food for thought.  Are there more Australians playing ipl than Indians playing in Aus?

If so, then that means the Aussies get an advantage by having a different pitch to play on here because the Indians only get to use it when they come here.

Who is actually cheating in that scenario? 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 15, 2021, 08:18:57 am
Food for thought.  Are there more Australians playing ipl than Indians playing in Aus?

If so, then that means the Aussies get an advantage by having a different pitch to play on here because the Indians only get to use it when they come here.

Who is actually cheating in that scenario? 

No-one is cheating Thry; it’s perfectly acceptable to prepare pitches that (a) favour the home side and (b) produce results.

The problem is that our curators don’t get it right and our bowlers aren’t good enough to exploit home pitches.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 15, 2021, 08:53:48 am
Many of the Australians who play IPL aren't in the frame for test selection,  and others, like Smith, had very poor recent IPL form.

Let's be honest, Australian men's cricket has been in the doldrums since....covid struck last year.   Never played enough to work up any sustainable form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 15, 2021, 09:13:15 am
The IPL pitches are nothing like the test prepared pitches either, when I saw India picked 3 spinners, were one nil down I knew what was coming. Was like the old days when they would open with one quick and a spinner and look to get the shine off the ball real quick. Joe Root said they would be better playing on a beach than the Chennai wicket..
Moeen Ali was bowling the ball at right angles and he usually can't get them off the straight which tells you how fit the pitch was for test cricket..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 15, 2021, 10:30:21 am
Moeen Ali was bowling the ball at right angles and he usually can't get them off the straight which tells you how fit the pitch was for test cricket..
Yes, the double standard and hypocrisy is a joke, but nobody has the balls to do anything about it because they all want to line up and put out their hand for the BCCI cash.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 16, 2021, 10:18:55 am
Some Indian commentator claiming on SEN that's it's not a doctored pitch because India made 284 in the third innings.

I'm calling this F wit out.

It's semantics champ.   It might not be "doctored" but it was prepared to spin from day one.   Balls going through the top in the first session day one is NOT TEST Standard.  It was BODGY before the game started and further diminishes India in the cricketing world's eyes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 16, 2021, 12:27:34 pm
Anyone interested in class keeping then watch Englands Ben Foakes, there is daylight between Foakes and the other world keepers especially keeping to spinners. Given the emphasis on keepers being able to bat its reduced the standard of keeping IMHO but this bloke is the real deal and it must be politics keeping him out of the English team because he makes Butler and Bairstow look like hacks with the gloves and its not like he cant bat either.
Got robbed of a stumping too, forgot the Indian batsmans name but he had him cold with the bat on the line not behind it but the 3rd umpire didnt have the gonads to give it out as the Indian public would have disassembled the stands but it was out and brilliant keeping.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 16, 2021, 01:11:20 pm
Anyone interested in class keeping then watch Englands Ben Foakes, there is daylight between Foakes and the other world keepers especially keeping to spinners. Given the emphasis on keepers being able to bat its reduced the standard of keeping IMHO but this bloke is the real deal and it must be politics keeping him out of the English team because he makes Butler and Bairstow look like hacks with the gloves and its not like he cant bat either.
Got robbed of a stumping too, forgot the Indian batsmans name but he had him cold with the bat on the line not behind it but the 3rd umpire didnt have the gonads to give it out as the Indian public would have disassembled the stands but it was out and brilliant keeping.
1000% in agreement here @ElwoodBlues1‍, the world has been conned by the career of Gilchrist!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 18, 2021, 09:27:32 am
Vics showing that some of the NSW test "stars" are no where near as good as they think they are.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 18, 2021, 10:07:18 am
Vics showing that some of the NSW test "stars" are no where near as good as they think they are.
Individual games are swings and roundabouts, but to me it's clear being a welded on test player is not good for cricket in general. There isn't that much difference between Smith and the rest, not as much as the media and managers make out. I have much the same opinion about AFL players, if you sacked all the incumbents and replaced them with the next 750 in the pecking order you would hardly notice a difference after just one pre-season.

I'm not asking for babies to be thrown out with the bath water, but players have to have a fair crack at being selected or else we'll find fewer and fewer players interested in playing Test Class cricket for Australia, they'll become too jaded and end up IPL pros who are slowly removing themselves from Australian cricket, IPL and BBL is not Australian cricket.

In fact I'm not even sure T20 is cricket at all, you could well replace most bowlers with a machine and pitches with concrete runways!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 18, 2021, 03:53:15 pm
Faf Du Plessis just retired from test cricket to chase the T20 retirement dollars.
Graham Smith is right when saying the game now revolves around the big 3 cricket nations and the once strong South African team is a shadow of the old era that had AB, Steyn, Smith, S Pollock and crew. They may get some players back who signed Kolpak deals to play in England now that scheme is over which should give them more depth but we need a strong Saffie team to keep Test Cricket alive and have a voice in world cricket to help stop the Indian domination of the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on February 18, 2021, 04:24:54 pm
Needs a bloc of test teams to counter India's game dominance ... and how likely is that?

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 18, 2021, 04:59:42 pm
Needs a bloc of test teams to counter India's game dominance ... and how likely is that?



Not likely when India unofficially underwrite the game and can attract/bribe the best players with offers too good to refuse.
Indian cricket is bordering on a reality series with Kholi a cricketing Kardashian and everyone else acting/playing along, none of the big money reaches the grass roots except in India.
When you see a team like South Africa get smashed by a Paki team of no names half of whom are probably on the take it just tells you what state the game is in.
Chris Gayle knew the future and gave test cricket away early, why knock yourself out when you can dress up in pretty colours, act like a rock star and collect the big dollars by playing the short formats around the world all underpinned by his status in the IPL.. Still playing at age 41...just too easy driving that Hummer around Jamaica and being the resident Snoop Dog, WTF would you want to play test cricket if you were a Windies kid..and we have India to thank for this demolition of Test Cricket and the weak ICC who just rubber stamp every tournament the Indians throw at them and change everyone else's calendar to suit.
The ICC and the WHO could swap seats and you wouldnt know the difference, both just puppet organisations beholding to their benefactors...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 18, 2021, 08:00:44 pm
The Saffies were finished as soon as the quota system was introduced.  Disenfranchise the senior players and youre always kaput.   Heck,  Kallis had to leave to get a coaching job because of his colour.   There's one who you'd want in the tent,  not in the opposition's camp.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 18, 2021, 09:08:34 pm
The Saffies were finished as soon as the quota system was introduced.  Disenfranchise the senior players and youre always kaput.   Heck,  Kallis had to leave to get a coaching job because of his colour.   There's one who you'd want in the tent,  not in the opposition's camp.
Agree on the quota system, you never see their best team now, its ridiculous how they have to top up their team with players who are not good enough, just to make the quota. You pick the best team whether it be all black, all white or a mixture based on form and only form not the colour of your skin.
Kolpak contracts also robbed them of talent having players being able to play as local players in  English county cricket, they could probably field another team with the players who left for the bigger dollars.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on February 19, 2021, 03:44:41 am
Agree on the quota system, you never see their best team now, its ridiculous how they have to top up their team with players who are not good enough, just to make the quota. You pick the best team whether it be all black, all white or a mixture based on form and only form not the colour of your skin.
Kolpak contracts also robbed them of talent having players being able to play as local players in  English county cricket, they could probably field another team with the players who left for the bigger dollars.

Welcome to 2021 where how good you are at your job doesnt matter so long as you have equal representation from all colours creeds and sexes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2021, 07:54:32 am
Welcome to 2021 where how good you are at your job doesnt matter so long as you have equal representation from all colours creeds and sexes.
It's driven by fear of litigation.

Lawyers do not have the Hypocritic Oath, doing no harm isn't even a consideration for them, maximising remuneration is the main issue!

What would Amal Clooney think if George and herself were replaced on quotas? But she doesn't have to worry that ever, because the laws she helped draft do not apply to her!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 19, 2021, 09:36:03 am
Yes... Quotas and the "diversity" issue.   I'm wondering who actually wins in that situation.

This has come up a bit lately in our household,  primarily discussions about role models.   Where are they these days?  Who are they?  For example, my son brought up the fact that he can't identify with any of the Australians of the Year group, and that every time he watches a Hollywood

-type movie the key figure is 35 kg model chick who acquires world class martial arts skills overnight,  with offsiders typically including a meathead alpha male, an attitude-saturated man hater, a black person and an Asian.   The other males are either pretty (and useless) window dressing or an unathletic, geeky tech type.  The protagonist is typically an greying,  middle aged man who is always (lacking back story)  evil, especially to women.  How many stereotypes can be served up in one setting!?!  In the rush to embrace "diversity" I fear we are actually disenfranchising great swathes of the community.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on February 19, 2021, 10:16:47 am
Yes... Quotas and the "diversity" issue.   I'm wondering who actually wins in that situation.

This has come up a bit lately in our household,  primarily discussions about role models.   Where are they these days?  Who are they?  For example, my son brought up the fact that he can't identify with any of the Australians of the Year group, and that every time he watches a Hollywood

-type movie the key figure is 35 kg model chick who acquires world class martial arts skills overnight,  with offsiders typically including a meathead alpha male, an attitude-saturated man hater, a black person and an Asian.   The other males are either pretty (and useless) window dressing or an unathletic, geeky tech type.  The protagonist is typically an greying,  middle aged man who is always (lacking back story)  evil, especially to women.  How many stereotypes can be served up in one setting!?!  In the rush to embrace "diversity" I fear we are actually disenfranchising great swathes of the community.
The real issue with it, is we start to practice the exact sort of discrimination they fight against.

Imagine campaigning your whole life to smash the glass ceiling, only for them to prioritise the hiring of people who are not the best candidate available, but instead making the decision based on quotas and targets to have equal representation.

You went to university, but you are a heterosexual male who is married with two kids?  Really sorry, but you miss out on the job.  We need to hire someone who is either Aboriginal, or of Asian/African background, ideally a female, and ideally in a same sex relationship.  Birth gender being the opposite of the one you currently identify for bonus points and credentials just need to be somewhere close to your level of qualification and it will do.  Oh, no experience necessary in that case to.  You go straight to go.

Its not the society I was told we should be fostering.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2021, 10:36:41 am
The real issue with it, is we start to practice the exact sort of discrimination they fight against.

Imagine campaigning your whole life to smash the glass ceiling, only for them to prioritise the hiring of people who are not the best candidate available, but instead making the decision based on quotas and targets to have equal representation.

You went to university, but you are a heterosexual male who is married with two kids?  Really sorry, but you miss out on the job.  We need to hire someone who is either Aboriginal, or of Asian/African background, ideally a female, and ideally in a same sex relationship.  Birth gender being the opposite of the one you currently identify for bonus points and credentials just need to be somewhere close to your level of qualification and it will do.  Oh, no experience necessary in that case to.  You go straight to go.

Its not the society I was told we should be fostering.
Humans are the problem.

A great example are some recent indigenous activists, some who turn to be not indigenous at all but accepted into a tribe, the rule being if the tribe says you are part of the tribe you qualify as indigenous. However, I noted that after recent public disputes some tribal elders are now questioning that individuals indigenous status, they are now seen as turncoats, they were really perhaps labelled "conveniently indigenous" for a cause that is no longer a priority!

What would Derrida think, woke isn't always what woke says it is, Indigenous today Euro or Imperialist tomorrow!

It's untenable to leave these definitions up to the opinions of people, but that is exactly where the law currently sits! Racism, persecution, oppression and discrimination is in the eye of the beholder!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 19, 2021, 11:56:43 am
Thry, that post is scarily close to home,  I've seen exactly that situation play out first hand within large Australian companies. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2021, 12:02:20 pm
Yes... Quotas and the "diversity" issue.  I'm wondering who actually wins in that situation.
Many of the academics that argue along the lines for quotas have academic "tenure", it's a huge contradiction!

Like Amal Clooney, they debate something that doesn't apply to them!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on February 19, 2021, 01:22:07 pm
Losing the cricket theme, but it is an interesting conversation.

In the work circles that I have, diversity focus is particularly on boards - young, old, gender, ethnicity - but still needing to do the job.

I think that quotas have helped the Labor party get many of its women in.  Sure, the talent started off with a low bar, but as time has gone on, it has shown other women that politics is something that they can be involved in, so more have become involved.  Society has to be better off for that.  AFLW will be an example of that, and I actually don't mind watching women's cricket.

I certainly feel for those who are pushed out of the workforce because they aren't 'diverse'.  Employing someone is all about discrimination until the final one is chosen (typo in that CV, next, don't like your name, next, CV too long, next, CV too short, next, hasn't got 5 years experience for a job that needs none, next - then all the issues that Thry has described, but none written down or spoken about)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on February 19, 2021, 01:49:12 pm
The real issue with it, is we start to practice the exact sort of discrimination they fight against.

Imagine campaigning your whole life to smash the glass ceiling, only for them to prioritise the hiring of people who are not the best candidate available, but instead making the decision based on quotas and targets to have equal representation.

You went to university, but you are a heterosexual male who is married with two kids?  Really sorry, but you miss out on the job.  We need to hire someone who is either Aboriginal, or of Asian/African background, ideally a female, and ideally in a same sex relationship.  Birth gender being the opposite of the one you currently identify for bonus points and credentials just need to be somewhere close to your level of qualification and it will do.  Oh, no experience necessary in that case to.  You go straight to go.

Its not the society I was told we should be fostering.

And start off with HR managers ... mostly feral man hating females. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 19, 2021, 04:02:54 pm
And start off with HR managers ... mostly feral man hating females. 
HR managers in general are just stooges of the management, we had a female who fitted your description, her husband ditched her and she decided the rest of the male population at work would have to suffer for it. Funny thing was she accidentally paid around 650k into my super account by mistake, I did the right thing after mulling it over  :) and contacted the super fund who said it would never have been picked up from their end :'(  and they were grateful but not a word of thanks from Ms HR who did her best to avoid me from that point on and was totally useless when I retired early and needed paperwork signed etc.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 19, 2021, 07:15:48 pm
More evidence that doing the right thing gets you nowhere EB - the bastards are winning, by daylight.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 19, 2021, 09:13:46 pm
HR managers in general are just stooges of the management, we had a female who fitted your description, her husband ditched her and she decided the rest of the male population at work would have to suffer for it. Funny thing was she accidentally paid around 650k into my super account by mistake, I did the right thing after mulling it over  :) and contacted the super fund who said it would never have been picked up from their end :'(  and they were grateful but not a word of thanks from Ms HR who did her best to avoid me from that point on and was totally useless when I retired early and needed paperwork signed etc.


Wouldn't feed em.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 20, 2021, 10:23:23 am
Many of the academics that argue along the lines for quotas have academic "tenure", it's a huge contradiction!

Like Amal Clooney, they debate something that doesn't apply to them!

Academics with tenure?  I’d like to see that!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 22, 2021, 03:17:52 pm
Quote from: Rohit Sharma
“The pitch is the same for both teams, so I don’t know why there is so much discussion about it. Pitches have been prepared like this in India for years,” Rohit said ahead of the third Test in Ahmedabad, which begins on Wednesday AEDT.

“Every side takes advantage of home conditions even when we travel ... When we travel they (opponents) make our life difficult.

“We make pitches according to our preferences, that’s why it’s called home advantage. Otherwise take away home advantage and ask the ICC to make a rule to prepare the same pitches in India and outside India.”
Can you imagine it if we handed a green top to Starc and Cummins during an Indian tour?

FFS, .............. India is the victim ......... didn't they refuse to play a test in Perth because the wicket gave Australia too much advantage! :o
 

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 22, 2021, 03:20:43 pm
Academics with tenure?  I’d like to see that!
@DJC‍  It's a global perspective, not just domestic.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 22, 2021, 03:49:41 pm
@DJC‍  It's a global perspective, not just domestic.

I think that you will find that academic tenure is limited to some high ranking professors in a few countries such as the USA, Canada, and Germany.  Most academics are on short-term or ongoing contracts and in Australia many are casual employees.

I actually think that the tenure system was antiquated, subject to abuse and did not encourage quality research or teaching.  Casual and short-term employment may be the contemporary norm, but it certainly doesn't encourage research and teaching.  I would prefer to see academics on fixed term or ongoing contracts ... but that's way off topic.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 22, 2021, 05:37:23 pm
I think that you will find that academic tenure is limited to some high ranking professors in a few countries such as the USA, Canada, and Germany.  Most academics are on short-term or ongoing contracts and in Australia many are casual employees.

I actually think that the tenure system was antiquated, subject to abuse and did not encourage quality research or teaching.  Casual and short-term employment may be the contemporary norm, but it certainly doesn't encourage research and teaching.  I would prefer to see academics on fixed term or ongoing contracts ... but that's way off topic.
Melbourne Uni is full of tenured academics on big money who teach 12 hours a week contact hours and complain about it. The Arts area including the old VCA is a tenure goldmine. Lots of academics who have been there 20 years plus just waiting to collect that pot of gold super which they have been building up at 12% plus.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 23, 2021, 09:37:19 am
T20 performance yesterday was very average.  Stoinis has a nerve bagging out teammates....when did that puffed up gym rat last (or ever?) deliver at an international level?   Maxwell gets bagged for inconsistency, but at least he's done something!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 23, 2021, 09:54:57 am
T20 performance yesterday was very average.  Stoinis has a nerve bagging out teammates....when did that puffed up gym rat last (or ever?) deliver at an international level?  Maxwell gets bagged for inconsistency, but at least he's done something!
Yesterday's game was all about the anniversary of the Christchurch Quake, as far as I'm concerned it went to script even if the Saffie won the game for NZ.

And that Saffie playing for NZ, yet another consequence of quotas at the top level, like SA can afford to surrender players to other test nations!

I have no problem with quotas at lower levels, domestic and suburban sport, fine, but at elite level you should earn a spot not be rewarded a spot!

I wonder if AFL will eventually have indigenous quotas, perhaps the Filth first based on recent events!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 23, 2021, 10:30:09 am
Aren't Indigenous players over represented* in the AFL relative to the percentage of the population? 

*note I'm using this term as I don't know the appropriate statistical moniker. It's not a judgement call or anything of that ilk.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 23, 2021, 10:37:26 am
Aren't Indigenous players over represented* in the AFL relative to the percentage of the population? 

*note I'm using this term as I don't know the appropriate statistical moniker. It's not a judgement call or anything of that ilk.
 Not at the Filth it seems! ;D
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 23, 2021, 11:37:03 am
Yesterday's game was all about the anniversary of the Christchurch Quake, as far as I'm concerned it went to script even if the Saffie won the game for NZ.

And that Saffie playing for NZ, yet another consequence of quotas at the top level, like SA can afford to surrender players to other test nations!

I have no problem with quotas at lower levels, domestic and suburban sport, fine, but at elite level you should earn a spot not be rewarded a spot!

I wonder if AFL will eventually have indigenous quotas, perhaps the Filth first based on recent events!

Indigenous players are seriously over-represented in the AFL.  Quotas would have to be for other ethnic groups  :)

On the other hand, Indigenous players are seriously under-represented in cricket ...

Giving youngsters of all persuasions an equal opportunity and encouragement to take part in sport would be far more effective than any quota system.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 23, 2021, 12:37:32 pm
T20 performance yesterday was very average.  Stoinis has a nerve bagging out teammates....when did that puffed up gym rat last (or ever?) deliver at an international level?   Maxwell gets bagged for inconsistency, but at least he's done something!
Kiwis are very hard to beat at home, lot of their players are unknowns and its an interesting question regarding their foreign legion of players from South Africa/India.
Conway wasnt even a qualified resident when first played for NZ I believe, he had served the three year qualifying period but was still on a Visa, he became a NZ contracted player while on a visa, 100k retainer plus match payments.
Lot of the local players are not happy with the influx of Saffies into domestic cricket, the Saffie comps are of a much higher standard so Saffie players walk into the local teams and are headhunted in some cases due to the quota system in South Africa.

I think the ICC need to look at qualifying periods or we are going to get teams like NZ featuring 50% SA/Indian born players who are the equivalent of Basketball imports...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 23, 2021, 01:38:17 pm
Lot of the local players are not happy with the influx of Saffies into domestic cricket, the Saffie comps are of a much higher standard so Saffie players walk into the local teams and are headhunted in some cases due to the quota system in South Africa.
Yep, players who were just a NAT away from genuinely earning test or ODI selection now find themselves in 23rd place, so they bug out altogether.

That is how quotas work.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 26, 2021, 11:39:39 am
The BCCI is killing the sport, complain about India's pitches and this is what you get, a Test match over in two days on a strip barely suitable for council approval of pedestrian traffic.

Nobody has the guts to reign the BCCI in, because they want the $BCCI, and because if the BCCI get publicly criticised they'll play the racism card. You could write out the script now and get it 99% correct!

They'll kill the sport, because the priority is profit, they'll argue that profit is good for the sport even if the sport ends up unrelated to what we know as the sport of old!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 26, 2021, 12:09:03 pm
Test over in 2 days in England, the wicket was a spin fest, even part timer Joe Root took 5 for 8 it was that friendly to tweakers.
Think I said previously the Indians would revert to their old ways and create spin nightmare wickets once they were one down in the series. Its farcical and time the rest of the cricket world drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to play games vs these cheats unless they get their act together and prepare decent fair wickets. All countries prepare friendly home town strips to suit their own but this is ridiculous and we almost need neutral pitch inspectors who validate the quality of the wicket before play is allowed.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 26, 2021, 01:09:00 pm
Test over in 2 days in England, the wicket was a spin fest, even part timer Joe Root took 5 for 8 it was that friendly to tweakers.
Think I said previously the Indians would revert to their old ways and create spin nightmare wickets once they were one down in the series. Its farcical and time the rest of the cricket world drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to play games vs these cheats unless they get their act together and prepare decent fair wickets. All countries prepare friendly home town strips to suit their own but this is ridiculous and we almost need neutral pitch inspectors who validate the quality of the wicket before play is allowed.
It was at Narendra Modi Stadium, Ahmedabad

Joe Root was embarrassed to talk about it after the 5 wicket haul!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 26, 2021, 04:48:55 pm
It was at Narendra Modi Stadium, Ahmedabad

Joe Root was embarrassed to talk about it after the 5 wicket haul!
Correct was India of course, my brain was on the poor opponent copping those crape wickets...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 26, 2021, 05:50:59 pm
Careful EB,  everybody knows only the Aussies cheat,  never those butter wouldn't melt in my Indian types... Nope.  Never.   Not.

Those pitches are so rank those venues should be struck off the roster.  Remember the hoohaa when the MCG was deemed too flat?   Grow some cojones ICC!!!!

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 26, 2021, 06:08:16 pm
Careful EB,  everybody knows only the Aussies cheat,  never those butter wouldn't melt in my Indian types... Nope.  Never.   Not.

Those pitches are so rank those venues should be struck off the roster.  Remember the hoohaa when the MCG was deemed too flat?   Grow some cojones ICC!!!!


Prof, Two day test matches should be enough for the ICC to act, these are meant to be two of the better teams in the world and its just common sense that these last two test matches have been ruined by pitch fixing by the home country.
I wouldnt be bothered sending my best team to India, I'd just send an Australia A team and treat its as a training drill for younger players. What is the point of bowlers like Anderson and Broad turning up to play on wickets that the opposition use spinners to open the bowling with.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on February 26, 2021, 09:29:54 pm
Test over in 2 days in England, the wicket was a spin fest, even part timer Joe Root took 5 for 8 it was that friendly to tweakers.
Think I said previously the Indians would revert to their old ways and create spin nightmare wickets once they were one down in the series. Its farcical and time the rest of the cricket world drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to play games vs these cheats unless they get their act together and prepare decent fair wickets. All countries prepare friendly home town strips to suit their own but this is ridiculous and we almost need neutral pitch inspectors who validate the quality of the wicket before play is allowed.

The wicket India produced was a disgrace. Unlike the 1960's, there is no good reason to produce a pitch of rolled mud any longer. Indian groundkeepers are as professional as most now. If the Indians  tried, there simply is no reason to provide this sort of rubbish.

Yes, home teams generally make wickets to suit themselves better, at least somewhat. But this was a case of ridicule.
Cricket Australia asked groundsmen to create pitches that will produce a contest over 5 days. The idea is for the game to close, to keep the public interested and the money coming in. 5 close days at the MCG with 60 000 people minimum each day and Cricket Australia is happy, even if we don't win.

That is not the case in India. They don't get that much money from people attending test matches. They do not aim for tests to last the distance. They just want to win.

Look at Australian pitches for the last 2 tours from India: you will note that the pitches were most unusual. They were slower, lower and less pace friendly. Why? So the test would go the distance.
The other big problem with Australian pitches is that they don't tend to wear much. Most of them are drop in pitches. As a result, our spinners rarely get conditions to suit them. Note that Australia has lost game to SA and India lately with big 4th innings batting displays. That would not have happened 20 years ago (mind you, we also had Warne and McGill, so 4th innings bowling success was not a problem).

Effectively, we do not make the most of our home ground advantages. Other countries do. India has never tried to make tests last.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 22, 2021, 11:56:35 am
Pucovski doesn't get a central contract..... Says that CA thinks he's cooked
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 23, 2021, 02:23:54 pm
Can't send the players to SA because of COVID!

But it's OK for them to play IPL in India! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 23, 2021, 03:08:21 pm
Can't send the players to SA because of COVID!

But it's OK for them to play IPL in India! :o
SA cricket is fecked, no money in going to SA but there would be a revolt if the players were stopped going to the IPL and getting their big pay cheques. The ICC otherwise know as the Indian Cricket Council...lets drop the the International as thats a furphy, wont have the games No 1 money spinning comp curtailed in any way.

Re: Pucovski...another weird decision, the kid does get injured a lot and has had some mental health battles but surely a suitable contract taking onto account those issues could be worked out given his level of talent.
I thought it was illegal to discriminate in the workplace against workers with mental health complaints if thats CA's main issue in terms of him being cooked mentally.?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 23, 2021, 03:36:33 pm
Just a hypothetical.

What if a player missed games for an injury, but the doctors thought that injury didn't really exist?

How would you deal with that in an official sense?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 26, 2021, 10:31:59 am
The Aussie cricketers need to get out of India, sure they are revered on the field and off-field for what they do.

But if they fall, if they suffer a demise, they'll get trampled by the mob!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 04, 2021, 11:01:02 am
Looks like the BCCI has given up protecting the IPL players, they can just wait a week or so and renamed it the Infected Players League!

I'm sympathetic yet indifferent to the likes of Slater moaning, these guys chose to go there for very very good money, despite knowing the risk before they left, a risk they chose to ignore for cash!

If they can pay for charter flights to ferry them to resorts, why the feck can't they stump up for a repatriation flight and the related quarantine costs. Why does repatriation have to come at the tax payers cost when they chose to go for profit?

I'm afraid I'm very cynical, I doubt Slater fears for his wellbeing, he's might even have already been vaccinated, is it his wallet he is protecting?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 04, 2021, 12:08:37 pm
Looks like the BCCI has given up protecting the IPL players, they can just wait a week or so and renamed it the Infected Players League!

I'm sympathetic yet indifferent to the likes of Slater moaning, these guys chose to go there for very very good money, despite knowing the risk before they left, a risk they chose to ignore for cash!

If they can pay for charter flights to ferry them to resorts, why the feck can't they stump up for a repatriation flight and the related quarantine costs. Why does repatriation have to come at the tax payers cost when they chose to go for profit?

I'm afraid I'm very cynical, I doubt Slater fears for his wellbeing, he's might even have already been vaccinated, is it his wallet he is protecting?
Sorry but if you want the big bucks and you take the risk then you are on your own, its a private league and not a Aus government sanctioned tour so Slater and crew need to stop whinging, wear a mask and tough it out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on May 04, 2021, 12:20:14 pm
Sorry if this is in the wrong spot

There are still a heap of Aussies scattered around the world that want to come home that can't.  It's only taken 14+ months for the Feds to do nothing useful about quarantine, to then say essentially we have to protect those that are here, we can't allow our citizens to come in from O/S.

I don't think Slater or the cricketers are asking Gov to pay costs - but to give them an opportunity to get home.  The cricketers at least have a voice (although, agree that it is hard to give them sympathy), unlike some, say aid and relief workers, tourists in the wrong place at the wrong time, or those with ill relatives. (A friend of mine's father passed away in India in December (not Covid), really tough on him that he couldn't get there and then help his mum).

Having said that, I have heard reports that the infection & death rate (particularly in India) are under reported by a huge factor.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on May 04, 2021, 12:42:39 pm
Not an ounce of sympathy for the cricketers or Slater and crew.  Cross hire / wet lease a plane yes.  Then give them hell when they land.

And for putting us to the trouble for turning your crap aircraft around and sending it back home?  $200,000.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 05, 2021, 01:34:51 pm
Nice article;

IPL shambles a result of putting greed above common sense. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/ipl-shambles-a-result-of-putting-greed-above-common-sense-20210505-p57p30.html)
This is what hubris looks like.

Spells it out in fairly plain terms. Fundamentally, India is a overpopulated country that socially and politically values human life very very lowly, and the lives of foreigners even less so!

The author probably won't get much argument from myself or others that have travelled there.

As for Slater's claim he had Federal Permission to work in the IPL, true, but the Feds didn't send him there and giving him permission to pursue his employment doesn't obfuscate his own responsibility in that decision chain! Claiming the Federal Government is now neglecting him is a big stretch, I dare say they actually probably warned him not to go if it can at all be avoided!

btw., As I understand it, for the Internationals, the IPL is no play no pay! The only players involved with guaranteed payments are BCCI contracted players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 05, 2021, 04:30:40 pm
Nice article;

IPL shambles a result of putting greed above common sense. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/ipl-shambles-a-result-of-putting-greed-above-common-sense-20210505-p57p30.html)
This is what hubris looks like.

Spells it out in fairly plain terms. Fundamentally, India is a overpopulated country that socially and politically values human life very very lowly, and the lives of foreigners even less so!

The author probably won't get much argument from myself or others that have travelled there.

As for Slater's claim he had Federal Permission to work in the IPL, true, but the Feds didn't send him there and giving him permission to pursue his employment doesn't obfuscate his own responsibility in that decision chain! Claiming the Federal Government is now neglecting him is a big stretch, I dare say they actually probably warned him not to go if it can at all be avoided!

btw., As I understand it, for the Internationals, the IPL is no play no pay! The only players involved with guaranteed payments are BCCI contracted players.
I watched the nine late news last night and they had a insight into the plight of the Indian public Hospital system and confronting stuff it was to watch. A mother surrounded by her kids in a hospital bed with no staff in sight and them trying to perform untrained CPR on her. A Doctor then casually walks in and very matter of fact checks her pulse and says dont bother anymore she is dead.
The Hospital was just jam packed with similar cases, no proper PPE gear, no oxygen and hardly any staff which given the circumstances isnt hard to fathom given the risks to their health.
The Directors of the hospital were at a clinic next door getting their CoVid jab and denying their was an issue, one Doctor was told what to say by a Director and just gave a heap of spin as a response.
Life is cheap in India but CoVid has made it a lot cheaper and its every man and women for themselves if you are the rank and file working class....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on May 05, 2021, 11:49:03 pm
I watched the nine late news last night and they had a insight into the plight of the Indian public Hospital system and confronting stuff it was to watch. A mother surrounded by her kids in a hospital bed with no staff in sight and them trying to perform untrained CPR on her. A Doctor then casually walks in and very matter of fact checks her pulse and says dont bother anymore she is dead.
The Hospital was just jam packed with similar cases, no proper PPE gear, no oxygen and hardly any staff which given the circumstances isnt hard to fathom given the risks to their health.
The Directors of the hospital were at a clinic next door getting their CoVid jab and denying their was an issue, one Doctor was told what to say by a Director and just gave a heap of spin as a response.
Life is cheap in India but CoVid has made it a lot cheaper and its every man and women for themselves if you are the rank and file working class....

It's challenging vision EB.

I listened to a conversation on the wireless today where folk were arguing that such vision shouldn't be put to air because it shows India in a poor light.  What a crock of sh1t!

Yes, India is a developing nation but successive governments have spent billions on armaments and nuclear weapons development.  It doesn't help that their neighbours also possess nuclear weapons but their neglect of the health system and the majority of the population is criminal.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 19, 2021, 08:21:09 am
Bancroft's mixed messaging is a best odd at worst malicious. Not sure why, perhaps his next MCC contract depends on knifing the backs he thought he was once a part of!

Was Bancroft ever a obvious choice for test selection, we know he had a power of runs, but I can't say he ever looked comfortable as a potential test batsmen even at Shield level. Is the current situation what you get when guys get rewarded test spots without the obvious skills to retain it, and then feel spurned when they are discarded?

Would Smith returning as captain make this situation better or worse?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on May 19, 2021, 08:26:26 am
Bancroft is a naive kid who was chucked under the bus by the NSW cricket mafia. I don't think there was anything in what he said.  Any doubts as to who runs Aussie cricket and sets the cculture....not.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 19, 2021, 10:17:45 am
Bancroft is a naive kid who was chucked under the bus by the NSW cricket mafia. I don't think there was anything in what he said.  Any doubts as to who runs Aussie cricket and sets the cculture....not.
Fwiw, I think in this case NSW Cricket and the MCC are one in the same.

( Note; To prevent confusion to some readers, in this context MCC is the Marylebone Cricket Club (Lords), not Melbourne. For years NSW Cricket and the MCC have monopolised placements in County Cricket, and used that leverage to shift the best of Australian young talent into the NSW Cricket system pretty much against their will. If you are a talented kid playing cricket around Australia and yet to make your name, either you're in to NSW or you're out of County Cricket without some exceptional efforts! )
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: raven on May 20, 2021, 11:31:38 am
Yar... when you get your baggy green, you also get your nsw blue cap.... or is that vice versa?  >:D
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on May 21, 2021, 07:58:55 am
Vice versa.

Australian cricket is so much stronger when other states have players in the test side,  because you have to be an absolutely outstanding player to push a NSW incumbent out.   Leave NSW,  or grind away for years in minor leagues,  perfecting your game.  I reckon Neser will be the next one.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2021, 09:16:23 am
Going to be interesting if they stick fat with Starc in the ashes.
Copped a real pounding vs the Indian second eleven out here with no name tailenders like Thakur and Sundar carting him around the park last time he was in action.
IMHO they will stick with him vs the Poms and go the full on pace assault.
If Pattinson is fit he might take his place but I don't see Neser getting a game. I think the tracks will be suited to tall quicks who bang it in and they won't be giving the English anything that seams/swings that will suit their attack. Maybe the Brisbane test would be some chance for Neser to play if he was really firing in Shield cricket..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on May 21, 2021, 01:01:08 pm
Starc is a real issue, and selectors need to man up and drop him until he starts taking wickets consistently again.   I'm not an insider but wondering if he's burnt out or something.

His pace is down,  he hasn't moved a ball since sandpapergate, the jaffas are increasingly infrequent and his batting has declined. His shield season - either side of the tests - was putrid.  Blind Freddy could see he shouldn't have played in Brisbane.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2021, 12:01:47 am
Watching England vs South Africa B.. I mean New Zealand. Ex saffie Devon Conway with an even 200 at Lords in his debut test.
Saffers really have provided NZ and England with some players over recent years.
Like to see the ICC set a few more rules regarding qualifying periods for these import players as I have mentioned before.
South Africa would have had some very decent teams over the years given all the players they provide and really lose so many given the quota system that limits opportunities and big money from other countries that buy them a new life elsewhere.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 04, 2021, 08:22:10 am
Marnus is a saffie EB
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 04, 2021, 08:24:37 am
Marnus is a saffie EB
He was 10 when they moved, not because he was displaced by a quota!

What we see happening in Saffie cricket, is an accelerated form of what we are going to see across the board in society and industry.

Quotas are a form of standardisation, and standardisation leads to a new level of mediocrity, it is akin to making the fastest runners slower so the slower runners can compete / keep up! A gold star for everybody!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2021, 09:11:27 am
Marnus is a saffie EB
Prof, Marnus and Wessels are the ones I know of who played for Aus but NZ have four in the team at the minute and England have had a very decent return from their imports over the years. Do countries make up their own qualifying rules or is their a ICC rule to cover all... Conway was playing on a visa when he first represented NZ in short format stuff and didn't have citizenship is what I read some where.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 04, 2021, 12:49:43 pm
And Wessels spent years qualifying.

We're not exactly clean in this field,  but our neighbours across the ditch pimp themselves out in so many sports they'd struggle to field teams if the citizenship regs were actually enforced.  The poms are utterly shameless in this area,  FFS,  Stokes is a kiwi.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 24, 2021, 03:38:27 pm
Spent the last few nights watching the test cricket final from England and it was worth staying up for. The little battlers from New Zealand vs the cricket powerhouse from Asia in India and the little battlers have stitched the Indians up very nicely.
Pitch was a swing bowlers paradise and nobody does swing better than the Kiwis, cloudy rainy conditions and the Kiwis led by the Giant all rounder Jamison bowled the cocky Kholi and his mates out cheaply twice and led by Williamson and Taylor strode to victory with the bat in the end quite comfortably.
Kholi was pissed to the max but had to contain himself and be humble in defeat which took a bit of doing but he does want the format changed to a best of three. Indians went with the two spinning allrounders which hindered them on the pace friendly wicket and he was forced to over bowl his three quicks unlike Williamson who judged the conditions better and went with 4 quicks and the medium paced allrounder DeGrandholme so he always had fresher pace bowlers.
Very entertaining game and I was glad the Kiwis won even with a bit of help from their South African/Zimbabwe imports, cant have India winning everything.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 24, 2021, 04:43:20 pm
It's great for cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 24, 2021, 06:52:54 pm
They'll just change the rules EB so India will play at home.  "Too much rain in England" or some other BS justification.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 24, 2021, 07:02:42 pm
They'll just change the rules EB so India will play at home.  "Too much rain in England" or some other BS justification.
Prof, there was the whinge that England has too much rain etc etc but 6 days made a result possible and England has proven
great for results in recent times given the bowler friendly conditions and there have been very few Draws.
I'm sure Kholi and crew will push for batting friendly Dubai as the neutral venue but I thought the Hampshire bowl was a great ground with atmosphere as well  as conditions that make it a great test for players and thats what Test Cricket is about.
I'm not handing India conditions that suit their spinners and negate every other team whose attack is pace based and who dont have the quality or depth India have with spinners.
Only concession I might make is a three test final series but still in England...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 24, 2021, 07:23:04 pm
Damn straight brother.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 21, 2021, 03:17:43 pm
Starc the enigma up to his old tricks again, five wickets smash the Windies in the 1st ODI, let's see if that means he goes missing for the next 5 games before we make a call on way or the other!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 06, 2021, 09:42:46 am
Been watching the start of the England vs India Test series and I think the upcoming Ashes series will be a bit of let down.
The English wont have Archer(injured elbow and ruled out), probably wont have Stokes due to mental health problems and their
team is going to look very B Grade what ever they send out here and thats if they do come as the players are not happy with our Strict CoVid rules and partners/family probably wont be allowed to join them which in Stokes case wont help his issues.
They have some of their other best quicks in Wood injured and unable to play more than a few tests each series and Woakes also has been unvailable so their attack is going to be the old blokes in Anderson and Broad again with a few newbie kids like Robinson....both still bowling well but conditions in Aus wont be suiting Anderson in particular.
The English batting too is very Joe average with Joe Root the only decent batsman they have and I cant see them being competitive...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on August 06, 2021, 11:52:37 am
Bread and circuses EB.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 01, 2021, 04:10:00 pm
The Taliban have said all is good for Agfhan cricketers to continue playing test cricket and they want a good relationship with Australia on that front so Afghan and Aussie cricketers can play in both countries.
The World is a funny place, sport seems to transcend global pandemics, wars etc..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: bricky on September 01, 2021, 07:03:52 pm
Circuses, not so sure about the bread
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on October 08, 2021, 03:59:35 pm
So Slater gets sacked from C7 ... deservedly
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 18, 2021, 03:04:30 pm
Ashes series looks set to go with England picking their team and the schedule in place.
England have gone with the tried and failed in the main, No Stokes and No Archer so their big guns wont be playing and that doesnt leave them with much match winning material other than oldies like Anderson and Broad plus Root with the bat.
No Mooen Ali who has decided to retire from Test Cricket...a decision made earlier than expected IMO due to his lack of form in Australian conditions and they have gone with Leach and Dom Bess who is a offie who can bat a little bit.
Watched the Eng vs India series and wasnt impressed with the POMS at all other than Root and new kid Robinson who is a tall swing/seam bowler. Woakes was injured for most of the series but came back at the end and did ok and is a decent cricketer but apart from Wood who cant stay on the park they have no pace bowlers over 140kmh.
Their batting is a shambles, Burns is a battler who averages 32, Hameed a spud who wont like the pace and bounce in Aus.
Their class players are Root and Malan.......the latter fell out of favour at test level but has dominated in the short formats and has been brought in because there was no one else in county cricket capable.
We have seen him before and he made runs in Aus and impressed, he is that lazy left hander who will play away from his body and give the slips a chance but he also can play some cracking shots and he has that bit of class and time that good players have.
Root was sensational vs the Indians and dominated the series but after that its slim picking with the overhyped Butler, Bairstow who should have retired and wonder kid Ollie Pope who looks good but cant make big scores.
3-0 Australia providing we have all our best quicks fit and dont provide wickets with too much grass that England can exploit.
We want fast, dry, bouncy wickets that suit our tall quicks and Lyon who get some bounce.....
Need to find an opening partner for Warner who should be primed to make runs after his disaster tour of England where Broad had him on toast all series but out here with no movement I expect Warner to dominate along with Smith.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 19, 2021, 10:57:35 am
We aren't tracking well either EB.   The new selection panel will probably be swayed by public opinion and pick that hack Khawaja to partner Warner.... Oh look,  2/13 off 4 again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 19, 2021, 01:47:41 pm
We aren't tracking well either EB.   The new selection panel will probably be swayed by public opinion and pick that hack Khawaja to partner Warner.... Oh look,  2/13 off 4 again.
Ian Healy wants Khawaja back in.. I'm like you and think it's a mistake and not looking at the future..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on October 19, 2021, 02:11:06 pm
Ian Healy wants Khawaja back in.. I'm like you and think it's a mistake and not looking at the future..

Khawaja offers nothing and never has.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 19, 2021, 02:17:37 pm
Khawaja is not a bad accumulator, better suited to test cricket than ODI or T20, but it's a backwards move because there is plenty of youthful talent in the offerings and they are a level above Khawaja in the field.

Like AFL past players, the cricket old boys network has far too much say, and they always favour the incumbents unless the potential replacement is their son or nephew!

I feel sorry for Khawaja, not for now but historically, it takes far too long to deliver guys like him an opportunity, and if you play for the wrong state you might not get an opportunity at all!

Meanwhile, the usual welded on underperformers persist, even in T20!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 19, 2021, 03:27:34 pm
Will Pucovski is the young man to open with Warner but with his concussion issues its going to be problematic for him to overcome given every quick he faces will be serving him up short stuff every over and it only takes one to land on the helmet and he will be missing games. Lucky England dont have Archer and only have the pacy Wood who himself cant stay on the park, the rest of their attack are seam and swing bowlers who wont present the same problems.
Not a real fan of Harris either, he is ok vs the B grade bowlers but vs the decent quicks isnt going to last long at the wicket.
Paine has the keeping job for this series but after that we may need a new keeper bat, been some love for Carey and the Josh's Inglis and Phillipe but I think the smokey for the job is Jimmy Peirson. My preference is Inglis.....better bat IMO but I reckon if Inglis makes runs this summer he may be get a test call up as a batsman only player even as an opener.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 19, 2021, 04:01:02 pm
Will Pucovski is the young man to open with Warner but with his concussion issues its going to be problematic for him to overcome given every quick he faces will be serving him up short stuff every over and it only takes one to land on the helmet and he will be missing games. Lucky England dont have Archer and only have the pacy Wood who himself cant stay on the park, the rest of their attack are seam and swing bowlers who wont present the same problems.
Not a real fan of Harris either, he is ok vs the B grade bowlers but vs the decent quicks isnt going to last long at the wicket.
Paine has the keeping job for this series but after that we may need a new keeper bat, been some love for Carey and the Josh's Inglis and Phillipe but I think the smokey for the job is Jimmy Peirson. My preference is Inglis.....better bat IMO but I reckon if Inglis makes runs this summer he may be get a test call up as a batsman only player even as an opener.
Agree with most of that.

I find it quite hard to get a bearing on many players now, they play so much short form cricket it screws up their technique be it batting or bowling, too much T20 and ODI rubbish.

Personally, I'd be happy if the ICC made a rule that for International T20 or ODI the team had to come from players named or previously named in Test Squads. I realise it would kybosh some of the teenage sensations, but to me it's more about what is good for the sport and discouraging players just chasing the dollars no matter how remote the chance! Cricket is not Baseball, I've never been a fan of Tait types or even at times Starc or , I don't want guys who play 75% rubbish cricket for 25% highlights! Imagine how well placed Australia would be if guys like Maxwell had got the long form right, I mean he could have been Australia's version of Viv Richards!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on October 19, 2021, 04:39:43 pm
I will not watch anything other than Test Cricket ... you can jam the rest.  5 Cent entertainment for the masses
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on October 19, 2021, 07:40:59 pm
Can't believe you didn't watch Oman v PNG the other night,  Cap!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 27, 2021, 11:12:53 am
South African cricket still stuck in the past with regards white v black and the present team seem as divided as ever from the pictures I saw. Star Keeper/batsman DeKock withdraw from the Windies game after refusing to drop to one knee as part of the fight against racism initiative which I think was started by Michael Holding. Several of his teammates who did play also didnt do the knee and either stood there or raised a fist and its clear the Saffies are not a united team.
I know the quota system hasnt worked and SA have dropped down the rankings as a cricket power but DeKock's stance is a big negative on turning things around and even if he doesnt agree on the principles he needs to do it for the team.
Cant see how they can select him for any future tours or games.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on October 27, 2021, 11:24:54 am
Very contentious decision, but not understanding the principles behind it, hard to make a call.  On balance, I think maybe he should have.  Equally, I can see why not.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 27, 2021, 11:48:48 am
Very contentious decision, but not understanding the principles behind it, hard to make a call.  On balance, I think maybe he should have.  Equally, I can see why not.


I have issues with the quota system and its prevented SA from fielding their best teams and they have lost players to the English county system, the IPL and even NZ with players like Conway now getting picked in all forms.
DeKock doesnt have to like it or those running the game behind the scenes but publically needs to do the right thing as their marquee player IMHO. Things will only change if there is a bit common sense and compromise from both sides, you want to see the best cricketers playing but there is the political game that needs to be played first and a system setup in SA that allows the best talent to rise to the top not dependent on what colour you skin is and you have to set up the structures that provide equality to all.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on October 27, 2021, 12:08:31 pm
I have issues with the quota system and its prevented SA from fielding their best teams and they have lost players to the English county system, the IPL and even NZ with players like Conway now getting picked in all forms.
DeKock doesnt have to like it or those running the game behind the scenes but publically needs to do the right thing as their marquee player IMHO. Things will only change if there is a bit common sense and compromise from both sides, you want to see the best cricketers playing but there is the political game that needs to be played first and a system setup in SA that allows the best talent to rise to the top not dependent on what colour you skin is and you have to set up the structures that provide equality to all.

Great comment @ElwoodBlues1
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 27, 2021, 01:23:01 pm
Things will only change if there is a bit common sense and compromise from both sides, you want to see the best cricketers playing but there is the political game that needs to be played first and a system setup in SA that allows the best talent to rise to the top not dependent on what colour you skin is and you have to set up the structures that provide equality to all.
Any of us with relatives in SA, Zimbabwe, Tanzania or similar have heard the stories and how Apartheid still exists but just inverted. The new 'quota' laws infiltrating Africa are used by the corrupt to basically sequester farm land and commercial properties without compensation, often with no intent to continue the enterprise.

I know people who held significant farm land, housing, servicing and employing about 50 locals on the property to manage and work the farm. In total with families that was about 300 people living and working within the farm boundary. Corrupt bureaucrats / officials basically used government channels to assert the workers were 'slave labour', kicked the owners off the land, sacked and evicted all the staff leaving them jobless and homeless, then broke up the homes and village amenities to sell off the chattels, hardware and furniture pilfering any commercial stock the traders held in the process, it just disappeared and nobody knows. Then as a final and even bigger insult, the property titles of 'some worthless land' were on-sold for a pittance to what was assumed to be a political insider. All with no compensation offered to any of the title owners. The farm is left to degrade, the land is no longer worked, the services have collapsed. Basic grain and feed which came off the farm, have now been replaced with imports, you guessed it from a company owned by another politician. This is a business that had operated for almost 50 years and employed several generations of locals while providing free lease land to the employee families which they had developed into family homes, small trading shops like a bakery and butcher, and village amenities like a medical clinic and pre-school. All gone and now they all get zero welfare!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 29, 2021, 08:37:14 am
I have heard the above scenario, twice,    essentially verbatim, from two sources.  It's another form of "racism",  just the skin colour of the crooks in charge has changed.  The sooner people understand that "racism" is a built in, inherent feature of humanity the sooner we can do something realistic about it. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 29, 2021, 09:09:00 am
I have heard the above scenario, twice,    essentially verbatim, from two sources.  It's another form of "racism",  just the skin colour of the crooks in charge has changed.  The sooner people understand that "racism" is a built in, inherent feature of humanity the sooner we can do something realistic about it. 
Prof,DeKock has apologised since and said he will take the knee and suggested that he was making a stance and wanted more done to fix the problems and wasn't racist.
But I think it's more along the lines of what you are saying and things have gone 180 degrees in terms of how SA cricket is now being administered. I watch a bit of the one day domestic SA cricket on Kayo every now and then and there are some very good players not getting a game at international level and it's because quotas are preventing their selection.
If they could pick their best team on talent alone they would be a dominant force in world cricket but they need to fix all their political problems first before that happens and they can't get the balance right it seems.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: madbluboy on October 29, 2021, 01:47:15 pm
We have the same the same issue with our NSW quotas.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on October 29, 2021, 02:50:04 pm
We have the same the same issue with our NSW quotas.

I had to think about that for a minute ... subtle but hard-hitting  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: madbluboy on October 29, 2021, 03:32:25 pm
Typing it on my phone and getting a call during that didn't help.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 29, 2021, 04:50:48 pm
Hazelwood, Starc, Cummins, Lyon , Warner and Smith plus Sean Abbott likely as the Pattinson replacement.
Michael Neser could be the permanent 12th man, never to play a test match.
Marnus, Green, Head and probably one of Khawaja or Pucovski to fill in the other opening spot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 29, 2021, 07:44:06 pm
"quota" is just another firm of racism EB,  what happened to primotion/selection based on merit?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 29, 2021, 10:36:49 pm
"quota" is just another firm of racism EB,  what happened to primotion/selection based on merit?
Prof, George Orwell would have made a good selector, he knew when the farmer was gone the animals would have problems working together as a team...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 30, 2021, 07:15:30 pm
Vale Alan Davidson and Ashley Mallet, two fine Test players for Australia.
Alan Davidson's exploits were before my time but his record at test level is imposing and one of the best left arm quicks ever.
Mallet was an off spinner who excelled in the Chappell era when I was growing up as a young kid and in a non spin friendly
era where pace dominated he was the perfect foil to Dennis Lillee and company.
Great gully field too even though he wore thickish glasses and was a tad unco looking he was a brilliant catcher and was part of a slip cordon that caught everything. Worked as a journo later on,worked as a commentator on radio, wrote several books and was an intelligent individual who complimented the extroverts in the team. 
Great contributors to the game the both of them..RIP.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on October 31, 2021, 12:13:30 am
Vale Alan Davidson and Ashley Mallet, two fine Test players for Australia.
Alan Davidson's exploits were before my time but his record at test level is imposing and one of the best left arm quicks ever.
Mallet was an off spinner who excelled in the Chappell era when I was growing up as a young kid and in a non spin friendly
era where pace dominated he was the perfect foil to Dennis Lillee and company.
Great gully field too even though he wore thickish glasses and was a tad unco looking he was a brilliant catcher and was part of a slip cordon that caught everything. Worked as a journo later on,worked as a commentator on radio, wrote several books and was an intelligent individual who complimented the extroverts in the team. 
Great contributors to the game the both of them..RIP.

Didn’t mallet have to bowl to Kerry packer to gain a WSC spot?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 31, 2021, 09:42:34 am
Didn’t mallet have to bowl to Kerry packer to gain a WSC spot?
Did read that was a true story, KP said Mallet was a straight breaker and didn't want to sign him. The rumour was Mallet had to get him out within one over to get in the WSC team..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on October 31, 2021, 01:04:23 pm
Did read that was a true story, KP said Mallet was a straight breaker and didn't want to sign him. The rumour was Mallet had to get him out within one over to get in the WSC team..

Surprised Mallett didn’t bounce him…
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 01, 2021, 09:06:17 am
When is Stoinis going to contribute something, and don't get me started on the great white hope from WA.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on November 01, 2021, 10:47:42 am
Stoinis won't contribute - certainly not consistently.  While there is no doubt he can hit the ball hard, he has no idea about rotating the strike, getting the singles and taking pressure off.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 02, 2021, 08:41:14 am
Agreed, clueless when it comes to "finesse", it's just slogging.   Vastly overrated cricketer.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 02, 2021, 09:35:00 am
Ian Chappell has slammed Khawaja as a good player vs ordinary bowling and reckons the English will be all over him if he gets picked in the test series.. Tend to agree.
Pucovski has to play and learn how to deal with the short stuff..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 02, 2021, 10:21:27 am
Pucovski has to play and learn how to deal with the short stuff..

Absolutely EB ... good player

As for the other guy, he's a dud.  Warner's just about done as well IMO
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: sandsmere on November 02, 2021, 10:54:01 am
Yes, Pucovski is a must.

Warner still has another season or two in him yet.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on November 02, 2021, 12:26:04 pm
Stoinis won't contribute - certainly not consistently.  While there is no doubt he can hit the ball hard, he has no idea about rotating the strike, getting the singles and taking pressure off.

Ponting seemed to be able to get the best out of him in the IPL.... not sure langer gets the best out of anyone
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on November 02, 2021, 12:40:03 pm
Ian Chappell has slammed Khawaja as a good player vs ordinary bowling and reckons the English will be all over him if he gets picked in the test series.. Tend to agree.
Pucovski has to play and learn how to deal with the short stuff..

Ussie averages 53 in Australia. England bowlers won't worry him much. No green seaming English pitches, no clouds, no English bowlers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 02, 2021, 02:12:50 pm
Ussie averages 53 in Australia. England bowlers won't worry him much. No green seaming English pitches, no clouds, no English bowlers.
More about the future maybe with Pucovski, Khawaja is also an ordinary fielder IMO as well  @34 I'd be looking at youth first.
If Archer was fit and playing then I might think different with him and Wood going at 150k but with only Wood on tour who plays every second game then I think we need to look ahead and have a younger partner for Warner.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 02, 2021, 08:21:34 pm
Warner was gone two years ago.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 02, 2021, 08:26:37 pm
Massive no to khawaja.

Might average 50+ in oz versus average bowling but his overall record suggests a mediocre player,  and his record versus finger spin (that innings aside) is appallingly bad.   Plus,  is a very average fielder.   I'd prefer him to Harris,  but only just.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 03, 2021, 02:01:04 pm
I think based on his recent comments Joe Root might be a thorn in our side this Ashes tour.

It's interesting that he made a statement about 'wanting it too much' in the past which degraded his performance. Root is already a very very good player, and if he can play without emotional overload he'll become very consistent and dogmatic, not unlike Smith on his last tour of the UK.

I've a mate who thinks that Steve Smith's work ethic coupled with his chronic insomnia is a big reason he bats at such a consistent level, he is probably physically fit but emotionally drained, so by the time he gets to bat, despite having all those ticks and twitches, he is probably quite calm by his normal standards of nervousness.

I know from my own sporting past, I always performed at my very best when I was cold and calculating about it. A great tip I got from some previous sporting stars set me on the right path, "When you get there, act like you've been there many times before, and deliver your performance cold!"

Federer said something similar, he basically attributes losing his youthful hot headed ways as the key to him becoming a consistent high performer.

I wonder if this is in someway connected to the old fable, "Beware the injured opponent!", is it because the injury removes the nerves?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 03, 2021, 02:41:12 pm
I'd expect the bowling from Aus to be on the shorter side than what England have faced recently. A lot of England's top order don't like the chin music, Root included.
Stokes is the exception and he will need more traditional methods of dismissal.
Woakes is a key player these days with both ball and bat and I'd also expect him to cop the short stuff to unnerve him both with bat and trying to get him to lose focus with the ball too. Bit surprised Livingstone hasn't been included as he plays pace well, is a handy leggie and while a short format player in the main I could see him making it at test level if given the opportunity especially out here where he knows the conditions.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 04, 2021, 09:54:14 am
Our weakness last summer was an unsettled opening combination,  then persisting with bowlers that were tired or horribly out of sorts.  The T20 side is suffering from selection issues as well .  I fear selection issues are going to plague us again this summer.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 04, 2021, 10:53:41 am
Our weakness last summer was an unsettled opening combination,  then persisting with bowlers that were tired or horribly out of sorts.  The T20 side is suffering from selection issues as well .  I fear selection issues are going to plague us again this summer.
Is it selection or the lack of selection?

Players who are rusted on because their best is very very good, even though their best is very very rare or very very ancient!

CA needs to address the issue of player security, it makes as much if not more money than the AFL but contracts only a few dozen players in total compared to over 700 AFL players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 04, 2021, 11:35:38 am
Both.

I'd like to know how Starc keeps getting games.  Has been mediocre for 18 months,  down on pace and bowls two four balls every over.  Patterson was clearly told, or read the writing on the wall,  you just won't be selected.   Neser is another in selection limbo. When are other blokes going to get a look in, we're just flogging the same quartet.

T20 batting selections that are simply weird.

Warner is another rusted-on selection, his selection in last summer's test series was an ego-driven disaster.

I agree selection ain't easy with the lack of batting talent pushing through,  but surely we need to give others a try.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 04, 2021, 01:33:36 pm
Looks like Patto is going to do a "Kolpak" and consider country cricket
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 04, 2021, 01:38:14 pm
Reckon if Starc was a right arm quick from Victoria he wouldn't be playing.
Being left arm gives him a point of difference and he is a bit quicker than the others. But as Thakur for India showed when he gets hit around he loses it and bowls repeated Pies even to tailenders..Cummins will think it through but Starc doesn't have a plan B.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 04, 2021, 01:41:50 pm
Reckon if Starc was a right arm quick from Victoria he wouldn't be playing.
Being left arm gives him a point of difference and he is a bit quicker than the others. But as Thakur for India showed when he gets hit around he loses it and bowls repeated Pies even to tailenders..Cummins will think it through but Starc doesn't have a plan B.
I watched some highlights the other night and both Hazelwood and Cummins were bowling faster than Starc who was going half-rat pace!

But it must be tough for bowlers when no matter when the bowl, first or second innings, they have to restrict an opposition to under 130 to have a 50/50 chance of winning!

Overall, the current T20 is showing Australia's specialist T20 - ODI - Test selection policies to be bogus, I can't see the coach surviving he's done!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 04, 2021, 02:27:10 pm
I reckon Warner and Finch are both very close to the end,  there's a pair of elephants in the short overs room.   Then specific T20 openers can get a gig.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 04, 2021, 06:00:03 pm
I reckon Warner and Finch are both very close to the end,  there's a pair of elephants in the short overs room.   Then specific T20 openers can get a gig.
Ditto Smith.....not sure I'd be burning Cummins and Hazelwood up in T20 cricket either, England dont play their test quicks other than Woakes.Tymal Mills has just got injured for England and is out of the comp replaced by Topley, imagine that had been Anderson or Broad or we had lost either Cummins or Hazlewood with the Ashes coming up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 12, 2021, 08:40:21 am
T20 is a bit Mickey Mouse, but I was glad to read Wade had some success.

I wish him and some of the other fringe players well because I think they have had far from a fair trot at representing Australia in other forms of the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 12, 2021, 08:59:49 am
The shorter forms of the game throw up some odd results.

NZ making the finals doesn't surprise me,  but if somebody has said Aust would make the final I'd have told them to F off.  Other results have been mystifying...the Windows,  SL and India bombing out?   England crashing at the penultimate hurdle? 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 12, 2021, 10:05:30 am
The shorter forms of the game throw up some odd results.

NZ making the finals doesn't surprise me,  but if somebody has said Aust would make the final I'd have told them to F off.  Other results have been mystifying...the Windows,  SL and India bombing out?  England crashing at the penultimate hurdle?
Agree, it's that luck element that makes it interesting to many but reduces my interest in the short form. However, I still hope guys like Wade and Maxwell do well enough to show up the institutions ruining the long form of the game.

Maxwell is to me a modern version of Doug Walters. A once in a generation player who every 4 or 5 innings could score a ton in a session, or a triple ton in a day, runout opponents like Viv Richards and take catches like Pontin, but he's consigned to joke cricket!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 12, 2021, 10:25:43 am
Warner is called  a flog because he hits a rank ball for six,  but no comment when he walks when he wasn't out.  We all know who the flog is in this case.  Funnily enough,  it isn't an Australian, although there are many who claim that we're the source of all evil.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 12, 2021, 10:29:25 am
Funnily enough,  it isn't an Australian, although there are many who claim that we're the source of all evil.
I get that, it is a natural part of being combative in sport, but we should be highlighting the hypocrisy not turning the other cheek.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 12, 2021, 10:53:38 am
India should have done better but are self destructing with Kholi at war with Ashwin and Rohit Sharma.
Got to give credit to the Kiwis.. Test champs and in the t20 finals now too.
For a nation that small its a decent effort and Williamson is one of the best modern day captains the game has seen.
Watched  the NZ leggie Sodhi get hit by a full on drive that had the ball smacking him straight in the forehead and he should have been taken from the ground because he was concussed for sure but kept bowling and its an area the game needs to clean up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 12, 2021, 10:58:45 am
Makes me laugh EB the rank hypocrisy emanating from India.  Ashwin is a great bowler but he ain't got a lot of mates,  he's been involved in more than a few very unsavoury on field acts.  Nothing destroys a team faster than disunity.  As for commentators, as soon as they leave the game they think they're the best ever and they can't help themselves trying to get back involved.   Like wicketkeepers,  the best aren't noticeable.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 12, 2021, 12:10:53 pm
Makes me laugh EB the rank hypocrisy emanating from India.  Ashwin is a great bowler but he ain't got a lot of mates,  he's been involved in more than a few very unsavoury on field acts.  Nothing destroys a team faster than disunity.  As for commentators, as soon as they leave the game they think they're the best ever and they can't help themselves trying to get back involved.   Like wicketkeepers,  the best aren't noticeable.
Yep, lot of commentators have an axe to grind and use their new job to pot old foes and teammates.
Indian cricketers are treated like rockstars and have an inflated opinion of their own importance. Kohli is the megastar and Ashwin the evil Prince wanting his crown.
More of a reality series now with the IPL, there are more cricket shows than Bollywood flicks getting made and the money is obscene when you have so many poor in the country.
Great for the game when the Kiwis beat them in the test final and now they have all turned on each other.
The coach Shastri has quit because he knows its now a bitch fight reality show..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 12, 2021, 02:00:53 pm
More of a reality series now with the IPL, there are more cricket shows than Bollywood flicks getting made and the money is obscene when you have so many poor in the country.
Is there is a bit of schadenfreude watching India reap what it has sowed?

They used the IPL to undermine opponents, they put in place a system that was massively biased in favour of Indian 1st class cricket and undermined opposition test squads. Yet now India is starting to suffer the same fate as the rest of the test playing nations with the quality of 1st class cricket massively degraded and divided loyalties. Money corrupts.

So I'm not sure if it is schadenfreude or satisfaction that I feel!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on November 15, 2021, 02:48:35 am
Well bowled Starcy
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 15, 2021, 04:24:14 am
We won the final ... not that I care for T20 at all, but good to see
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: raven on November 15, 2021, 09:30:15 am
And hilarity ensues when you think of the $$$ India pour into t20, likely more than our countries GDP...  ;)

Not real cricket but we'll take the win and trophy.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 15, 2021, 09:43:56 am
And hilarity ensues when you think of the $$$ India pour into t20, likely more than our countries GDP...  ;)

Not real cricket but we'll take the win and trophy.
The BCCI make a bag of money out of T20, I don't think they care that much about T20 compared to Test, but they now have the same problem as every other country, the players want the cash!

(https://c.tenor.com/VX9spij9_LsAAAAC/jerry-maguire-show-me-the-money.gif)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 15, 2021, 10:06:41 am
We won the final ... not that I care for T20 at all, but good to see
Main thing was India didnt win......just hope we dont get sucked in with Mitch Marsh and put him in the test team at some stage.
Good short format player but not test material IMO.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 15, 2021, 10:27:30 am
Main thing was India didnt win......just hope we dont get sucked in with Mitch Marsh and put him in the test team at some stage.
Good short format player but not test material IMO.

We'll need our best team against England and he's not part of it @ElwoodBlues1

By the way, thank you for your support.  I appreciated that  ;D
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 15, 2021, 01:06:00 pm
We'll need our best team against England and he's not part of it @ElwoodBlues1

By the way, thank you for your support.  I appreciated that  ;D
No probs Cap... 60 mins had a nice piece on our Chinese friends and their bully boy antics.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 15, 2021, 01:18:16 pm
What the U.S. will or won't do with regard to supporting Taiwan (should it come to that) might tell us much about our alliance.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 15, 2021, 02:18:02 pm
And other elephants in the room EB: Smith in average touch,  Finch finished,  big????  on Warner at test level,  Starc bowling rubbish.   Great innings from Marsh,  but straight into the test team,  pffft, no way.  Don't get sucked in by slog and giggle cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 15, 2021, 03:38:55 pm
And other elephants in the room EB: Smith in average touch,  Finch finished,  big????  on Warner at test level,  Starc bowling rubbish.   Great innings from Marsh,  but straight into the test team,  pffft, no way.  Don't get sucked in by slog and giggle cricket.
Prof, Think Smith will enjoy the flat tracks we will deliver devoid of any seam but with true bounce and designed for your 200cm quick of which we have several and England only the ageing Broad. Agree on Finch.....gone.....Warner with Harris I cant see being a successful opening pair. Starc will get games and probably bowl well initially say in Brisbane where he can get a few to swing early but once he starts pitching up on the decks with bright blue skies and the shine off the ball he will be back to bowling pies that dissapear as quickly as they came. Only way I can see Marsh getting a run is if Green breaks down or isnt making runs.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 15, 2021, 03:51:17 pm
What the U.S. will or won't do with regard to supporting Taiwan (should it come to that) might tell us much about our alliance.
Seems like Biden will support Taiwan if necessary, not sure we need to supply troops or any equipment. For sure the USA will use their tracking facilities in Aus they have setup at Pine Gap etc and probably direct their sub fleet from here but I think they would do their own thing without asking us what we think.
There was talk on 60mins from some of the strategists that they might let Taiwan be taken over rather than get involved in any large scale war effort to defend them given the options they would have available and the risk they would have to go nuclear.
If I was in Taiwan I'd be seeing the writing on the wall and leaving.....
China have zero respect for us and our small military force, the USA couldnt be trusted to keep their agreements with us either if they pulled the plug on the Taiwanese and thats more concerning.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on November 15, 2021, 06:30:32 pm
Massive no to khawaja.

Might average 50+ in oz versus average bowling but his overall record suggests a mediocre player,  and his record versus finger spin (that innings aside) is appallingly bad.   Plus,  is a very average fielder.   I'd prefer him to Harris,  but only just.

Who else is there? We are playing in OZ where he averages 53. Would have said no overseas but at home definitely. England's bowling falls away alot once away from their green pitches, cloud and Dukes Ball.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on November 15, 2021, 06:37:23 pm
Prof, Think Smith will enjoy the flat tracks we will deliver devoid of any seam but with true bounce and designed for your 200cm quick of which we have several and England only the ageing Broad. Agree on Finch.....gone.....Warner with Harris I cant see being a successful opening pair. Starc will get games and probably bowl well initially say in Brisbane where he can get a few to swing early but once he starts pitching up on the decks with bright blue skies and the shine off the ball he will be back to bowling pies that dissapear as quickly as they came. Only way I can see Marsh getting a run is if Green breaks down or isnt making runs.

Smith plays well anywhere, he'll be ok. That's how he got to average 62. With Pucovski out I'd have Ussie open with Warner. Pucovski should be back for the 2nd Test. Maddinson at no.5, like last year his form is terrific, Green at 6 as Marsh is a limited overs player and had his chance. Very tempted to play Jhye Richardson ahead of Starc too.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 19, 2021, 02:54:53 pm
And now Tim Paine stands down as captain after admitting sexting ....

We're getting good at stuffing everything up.  Seriously  >:(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on November 19, 2021, 03:01:27 pm
The sexting happened in 2017, 4 months after he got the captaincy.

The wheels may grind slowly, but they do grind.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 19, 2021, 03:04:30 pm
And now Tim Paine stands down as captain after admitting sexting ....

We're getting good at stuffing everything up.  Seriously  >:(

Yep not great just before the Ashes, what a goose Paine is...I guess Cummins will probably be the new Captain, be interesting who the new keeper is...been plenty of talk of Carey, Inglis, Pearson but they may go with Nevill from NSW.
England of course are in the midst of a racism sandal involving Yorkshire cricket club and their treatment of Pakistan born cricketers...several well known ex players now commentators up to their necks in it and its clear the county system in England is full of it and Yorkshire is just the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on November 19, 2021, 03:45:30 pm
Once there's a digital record, or hard copy for that matter, plausible deniability is not an option.  What a goose!

Does this provide an opportunity for Smith to be re-instated?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on November 19, 2021, 03:51:14 pm
Probably best to find someone who hasn't engaged in ball-related stupidity as it's now a bit of a trend.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 19, 2021, 04:02:50 pm
Who else is there? We are playing in OZ where he averages 53. Would have said no overseas but at home definitely. England's bowling falls away alot once away from their green pitches, cloud and Dukes Ball.
But they brings bags and bags of the good boiled lollies with them, which they claim they do not use, yet apparently the lollies have been sighted at customs inspection!

I suppose someone has become addicted, after all they are not banned! :o

The ACB stupidly let Castlemaine Rock go out of business!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 19, 2021, 04:18:28 pm
And now Tim Paine stands down as captain after admitting sexting ....

We're getting good at stuffing everything up.  Seriously  >:(
Personally, if Paine isn't captain he's probably not in the 11 either, especially given his hand injury history.

It will be interesting to see which way the ACB go.

Could we see Head going from borderline selection to captaining an Ashes squad?

Personally, I think Cummins is a bad choice, pace bowlers do not make good judgements at the end of a long hot day in the field. I say this having been a opening bowler and captain, but it was really late in my career when I was happy to give the pill to somebody else that I was most effective as captain. You don't drive fatigued, don't captain Australia fatigued either! ;)

Is Labuschagne a chance, could someone like Handscomb or Maddinson come in to lead with Carey as keeper?

Did Wade announce his retirement a day too soon?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 19, 2021, 05:13:08 pm
Personally, if Paine isn't captain he's probably not in the 11 either, especially given his hand injury history.

It will be interesting to see which way the ACB go.

Could we see Head going from borderline selection to captaining an Ashes squad?

Personally, I think Cummins is a bad choice, pace bowlers do not make good judgements at the end of a long hot day in the field. I say this having been a opening bowler and captain, but it was really late in my career when I was happy to give the pill to somebody else that I was most effective as captain. You don't drive fatigued, don't captain Australia fatigued either! ;)

Is Labuschagne a chance, could someone like Handscomb or Maddinson come in to lead with Carey as keeper?

Did Wade announce his retirement a day too soon?
I'm not a fan of quicks being captain either.....Smith is the obvious choice minus the sandpaper anchor around his neck but that
anchor remains and I cant see the selectors going there. If Carey played as keeper then he could be the other choice other than Cummins.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on November 19, 2021, 08:16:17 pm
The sexting happened in 2017, 4 months after he got the captaincy.

The wheels may grind slowly, but they do grind.....

He was captain in 2018. It was investigated in 2018 by CA and CT. They found it was consensual between 2 adults so, while they didn't condone it, both bodies said it was between them and decided it wasn't anything that should cost him the captaincy.

Reading the text messages. Looked very consensual.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10219923/Read-raunchy-text-messages-Tim-Paine-sent-female-colleague.html?fbclid=IwAR1pVv4mKymPmvhaGpIJ44MWL7vEKOYTKwzI0wEt6uULk2bMfzESBmfr8Iw

Looks like what happened is the women was charged with theft from Cricket Tasmania, where she worked, in June 2018 and then decided to put in a complaint about Paine. Looks like a form of revenge against Cricket Tasmania for having her charged.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10219963/Woman-centre-Tim-Paine-sexting-scandal-reported-incident-charged-theft.html

Warnie can advise him how to handle it. He had that they of stuff hanging over him his whole career....lol.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 19, 2021, 09:51:22 pm
He was captain in 2018. It was investigated in 2018 by CA and CT. They found it was consensual between 2 adults so, while they didn't condone it, both bodies said it was between them and decided it wasn't anything that should cost him the captaincy.

Reading the text messages. Looked very consensual.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10219923/Read-raunchy-text-messages-Tim-Paine-sent-female-colleague.html?fbclid=IwAR1pVv4mKymPmvhaGpIJ44MWL7vEKOYTKwzI0wEt6uULk2bMfzESBmfr8Iw

Looks like what happened is the women was charged with theft from Cricket Tasmania, where she worked, in June 2018 and then decided to put in a complaint about Paine. Looks like a form of revenge against Cricket Tasmania for having her charged.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10219963/Woman-centre-Tim-Paine-sexting-scandal-reported-incident-charged-theft.html

Warnie can advise him how to handle it. He had that they of stuff hanging over him his whole career....lol.


Warnie got away with it because he was the naughty clown prince but Paine has been portrayed as Mr Squeaky Clean who can do no wrong unlike convicted villains Smith and Warner. Reckon thats the end of his career at International level and even at State Level its going to be difficult for him, imagine the crap he is going cop from the sledgers.
Josh Bootsma could probably help Tim Paine out, he knows a thing or two about sending selfies ......
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 19, 2021, 11:51:02 pm
Reckon thats the end of his career at International level and even at State Level its going to be difficult for him, imagine the crap he is going cop from the sledgers.

Social media ... and its associated pitfalls
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 20, 2021, 08:51:23 am
 .... and if Cricket Australia (and C of TAS) kept that secret, I'd run a broom thru the joint.  So much for values and standards.  Pitiful really
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 20, 2021, 03:15:09 pm
Maybe the pommie media should pay more attention to what their own crew is up to,  the allegations being made over there are enough to tear the joint down.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on November 20, 2021, 05:50:52 pm
.... and if Cricket Australia (and C of TAS) kept that secret, I'd run a broom thru the joint.  So much for values and standards.  Pitiful really

Cricket Australia has admitted that it "made a mistake" in covering up Paine's shenanigans.  Of course, it's only a mistake if you get caught, but what are the chances of a successful cover-up?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 20, 2021, 07:29:59 pm
what are the chances of a successful cover-up?

Zero ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 20, 2021, 08:15:02 pm
If you were paranoid you might think someone connected to the ACB leaked the story to get a NSWelshman back in the big chair for the Ashes!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 22, 2021, 09:05:49 am
They're in damage limitation atm
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 22, 2021, 11:50:00 am
I think there's more to this than we're being told
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 22, 2021, 02:22:39 pm
I think there's more to this than we're being told
Prof, The Paine bro in law also seems to have been sexting the girl involved, she must have been too busy on her phone all day to do any work. CA in damage control after trying to hide the investigation  but the media wont let this go...too good a story and as you suggest I reckon a few more skeletons waiting to fall out of the cupboard.
The girl will be on a nice earner if she comes forward with her story, Pommy media will be all over it too trying to deflect from the Yorkshire racist debacle..Hope Alex Hales loses his BB contract too, a real sorry excuse for a human, Vaughan should lose his media job and other morons like Ballance should be banned from county cricket, same deal with Hoggard, no coaching or cricket employment either. Too much money in cricket and too much spare time for players and so little respect for the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 26, 2021, 10:12:04 am
So now we need a new wicketkeeper given Paine's "retirement"
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 26, 2021, 10:19:26 am
So now we need a new wicketkeeper given Paine's "retirement"
While he may be a nice bloke to his immediate peers, and they may miss him as part of the team, to me it's not a great loss in terms of cricket!

I'm more concerned about the old school getting it's leg in again, Paine was introduced to basically end the hold over Australian Cricket by the Cricket Mafia(Maybe read NSW). Paine stumbled through his own hubris, and look who "the only viable replacements" are, as reported by the cricket experts, NSWelshman A or NSWelshman B?

As for the keeper, what chance is the resurrection of 36yo NSW keeper Peter Neville, or some almost unheard of pick from NSW grade cricket?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on November 26, 2021, 11:14:34 am
Just one more example of modern sports losing it a bit.

If his wife can stick with him through this, I can't see why this has cost a bloke his cricket career whilst ball tampering doesn't??
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 26, 2021, 11:39:14 am
Also I do not get why discussing the extortion tactics of one party is somehow victim blaming.

FWIW, is there even a victim in this case, and if there is, is it the one you think, is it the one that woke culture declares?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 26, 2021, 11:48:00 am
100% .  I get the feeling that one party was interested in some coin.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 26, 2021, 11:52:39 am
100% .  I get the feeling that one party was interested in some coin.
Yes, it's amazing how the offer or demand of a cash settlement seems to be the cure for all moral wrongs!

Do all dickheads deserve compensation, have they always got to have someone else to blame for their own stupidity?

As an observer I've been through scenarios like this many times in a corporate environment, dodgy emails between participants is the typical scenario which then become disclosed due to some social or workplace fallout. It's impossible to convince me either party is a victim without extraordinary evidence. To add to my cynicism the issues are nearly always settled based on opinion, and that is rarely an opinion aligned with the party who is right, it's usually about money! We waste so much time and effort dotting the Is and crossing Ts to avoid being the victim of an opportunistic ar5ehole who has discovered a trick to profit at the expense of others from a FB page! Woke is just the new Political Correctness, which was just the new Feminism, which was just the new ....... fill in whatever movement you like to declare here.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 26, 2021, 11:57:55 am
I'm not at all surprised the mental stress got to him.  His life now changed and it doesn't seem at all fair.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 26, 2021, 12:06:13 pm
I'm not at all surprised the mental stress got to him.  His life now changed and it doesn't seem at all fair.
Yes, the risk in this event it is not and was not symmetrical, and that should raise alarm bells for the observer.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: sandsmere on November 26, 2021, 05:05:50 pm
Pat Cummins the new captain.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 26, 2021, 05:08:20 pm
Pat Cummins the new captain.
Probably the safe and only choice....Smith as VC is a topical move, I would have gone Carey as keeper and made him him VC.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 30, 2021, 06:48:25 am
Ashwin up to his old tricks again I see.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 30, 2021, 09:20:48 am
Ashwin up to his old tricks again I see.

Typical ....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 30, 2021, 09:41:40 am
And his mates in the media excuse his behaviour.... Because only Australians cheat.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 30, 2021, 10:22:51 am
The non striking batsman should just run through him.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 30, 2021, 10:24:28 am
I've seen it done
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 30, 2021, 10:33:05 am
Soon make him think about doing it again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 30, 2021, 10:50:17 am
Great game between India and NZ, Ashwin was up to his old tricks bowling in front of the ump and getting in the path of the batsman as he left the wicket area.
Kiwis hung on with great grit thanks to debutant Ravindra and spinner Patel which must have annoyed the Indians no end having players with Indian heritage saving the game.
Umpires held their ground well when offering the light to the kiwis, and didn't buckle under pressure to keep playing.
Can't beat test cricket... Its still the premier format.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on November 30, 2021, 05:23:15 pm
So maniac McGowan now calls off the Perth 5th Test due to his covid isolation requirements.

Fine, you moron.  I'd make certain you'd NEVER get another Test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: raven on December 01, 2021, 12:23:49 pm
So maniac McGowan now calls off the Perth 5th Test due to his covid isolation requirements.

Fine, you moron.  I'd make certain you'd NEVER get another Test.

Give Hobart the match.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 01, 2021, 12:52:48 pm
I'm betting MCG x 2
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2021, 01:37:23 pm
Carey the likely keeper now with Inglis just missing out....probably in better form with the bat and also has that leadership aspect which gives the selectors another option if Cummins doesnt work out with Smith being a more controversial choice.
Maybe the only reservation I have about Carey is it adds another leftie to the batting order which I'm sure Broad and Anderson wont mind but I dont expect any grassy seaming wickets to be served up which should negate the English duo.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 02, 2021, 12:25:24 pm
Confirmed, Carey gets the nod!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 07, 2021, 01:12:02 pm
I'm with Warnie...based on the last 12 months,  HTF does Starc get a start!?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 07, 2021, 01:27:09 pm
I'm with Warnie...based on the last 12 months,  HTF does Starc get a start!?!
Haven't read Warne's commentary, but I'd have to agree. Some people go all beer goggles when they see a bowler who can unleash the odd unplayable pill, but I'd take a DK Lillee or McGrath over J Thompson, M Starc or S Tait every day, day in and day out.

Part of Warne's success, and the teams success at that time, was due to having Warne and McGrath operating like clockwork at either end.

As good as Starc's good can be, his average and bad is well below par! Starc can bowl 3 unplayable overs than go for a ton for the next 10 overs, and that releases all the pressure! While he gets away with that bowling to the bottom order, it can cost us plenty against the top order, and when he is ordinary it costs the bloke bowling at the other end as well!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 07, 2021, 02:02:31 pm
Anderson out for England, likely they will play 5 seamers with Stokes the 5th bowler not expected to bowl much with Root as the spinner.
Im with Warnie too and would have played Richardson and used Starc for the day/nighter in Adelaide where it will swing for sure.
Starc will probably do OK though as the English top order is iffy apart from Root. I'd expect more runs from the English tail led by Stokes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 07, 2021, 02:51:46 pm
My hope is Lyon steps up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 08, 2021, 09:49:31 am
Interesting to read that NSW Cricket Mafia is pushing for the 5th test, no doubt spurred on by NSW Cricket's close ties to the Marylebone Cricket Club, and the ECB's push to hold the final test at a venue best suited to the tourists.

I suppose the ECB are enthused having played WA into kyboshing a visit to the hot and bouncy Perth strip.

Must have been quite a kick in the guts for NSW when new Aussie Captain Pat Cummins came out and said no thanks to the SCG, "I'd rather have a venue better suited to fast bowlers, the SCG gets a little slow and low!" So I suspect he'll be sacked sooner rather than later for that unscripted outburst!

Where should it be held, my preference would be at Hobart rather than a repeat venue, but Hobart is probably the ECB's 2nd preference.

What about an Indoor Day / Night test at Docklands, a game that can be guaranteed regardless of weather?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 08, 2021, 10:27:40 am
MCG ... just do it. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 08, 2021, 10:34:55 am
MCG ... just do it.
Unless the series is on the line going into the last test, I think it'll flop.

What about an MCG Day / Night test?
 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 08, 2021, 10:55:55 am
Unless the series is on the line going into the last test, I think it'll flop.

What about an MCG Day / Night test?
 

It won't flop ... and a day / night?  Maybe.  But definitely not if the series is locked.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 08, 2021, 11:04:10 am
It won't flop ... and a day / night?  Maybe.  But definitely not if the series is locked.

Fine start England :))
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 08, 2021, 05:05:44 pm
England are rubbish, very ordinary batting lineup and it went the way I thought it would.
Root can't make runs in Aus so they have no hope. Anderson and Broad must have come to escape Covid and the English weather..
4-1 if England get lucky and win a dead rubber test if we rest some quicks...








Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 08, 2021, 06:14:37 pm
They look very brittle in the top order, especially with an early loss. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 09, 2021, 07:25:39 am
Yep,  not test standard batting EB,  but I wouldn't be too harsh as I don't think our batting unit would have done well either.   Poms looked very short of a gallop and the lack of preparation really showed out.   Our bowling was effective but lengths still didn't look full enough at times and Lyon lacked penetration.  Going to be interesting to see what happens when the pill gets older and the decks unresponsive.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 09, 2021, 08:45:46 am
My oldest grandson graduated from primary school yesterday (in my day you just left at the end of last term ... and they were glad to see the back of you).  They had a fairly relaxed day that included watching the start of the Test.  The boys clapped Starc’s run in and they erupted when the stumps shattered, ending up in a pile on the floor.

They’re all into BBL but the theatre and excitement of Test cricket just captured another generation  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 09, 2021, 09:36:22 am
Yep,  not test standard batting EB,  but I wouldn't be too harsh as I don't think our batting unit would have done well either.   Poms looked very short of a gallop and the lack of preparation really showed out.   Our bowling was effective but lengths still didn't look full enough at times and Lyon lacked penetration.  Going to be interesting to see what happens when the pill gets older and the decks unresponsive.
Prof, Watched Hameed and Burns vs India and NZ in England and they are not good enough to be playing at test level. Their batting is all about Root and his record out here isn't great. Stokes is short of a gallop but the others have been playing test cricket and I can't see them providing much opposition. It's up to their bowlers to make up the slack but this isn't England with green tops every game and with no Archer they lack firepower for Aus conditions.
Agree our batting is rubbery but I still think we will eek out enough runs to have the edge.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 09, 2021, 10:58:36 am
Surely there have to be better opening options than Harris,  gees that was a soft dismissal.  Please get better soon Will.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on December 09, 2021, 11:39:48 am
Warner bowled off a no ball. Lucky once again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 09, 2021, 11:40:06 am
Great game so far Stokes .... you goose
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 09, 2021, 04:09:36 pm
How fortunes change ... 5 down
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 09, 2021, 04:10:52 pm
Pathetic batting.... Batting like millionaires.  It's a test match fellas.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 09, 2021, 04:27:21 pm
They've bowled pretty well.  This won't last 5 days.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 09, 2021, 04:39:11 pm
Only had three bowlers too, Leach has bowled Pies and Stokes looks stiff and unfit.
Wood is quicker than our bowlers but cant stay fit but that extra pace has troubled our batsman, Robinson was good vs India and New Zealand in England and is going to be a long term player.
Warner had plenty of luck and we are lucky that Burns dropped a sitter in the slips.
Still in control but considering the poor opposition its been average batting.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 09, 2021, 05:04:55 pm
Pathetic batting.... Batting like millionaires.  It's a test match fellas.
Yes, they are more focussed on forcing a result than playing good test cricket.

In the old days after knocking them over cheap it would be bat for 3 days then hopefully not bat again, now it's score quick get a lead and hopefully knock em over cheap then bat last. They want Test to compete with ODI as a draw for the young ones, but the tactic is a bit surprising! :o
 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 09, 2021, 05:37:26 pm
Both of these sides look unprepared,  physically and mentally,  for test cricket.  The lead in was woefully inadequate for everybody - even the umpires.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 10, 2021, 09:11:00 am
Both of these sides look unprepared,  physically and mentally,  for test cricket.  The lead in was woefully inadequate for everybody - even the umpires.

In that context, the cricket wasn’t too bad.  I only watched the last session and, in the immortal words of Bill Lawry, “It’s all happening!”  Quick scoring, wickets falling, misfielding, great fielding, fast bowling, ordinary bowling, and Australia building a big lead - very entertaining indeed  :)

I would have preferred a declaration and 5 or 6 hostile overs but the established wisdom is first innings runs are gold.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 10, 2021, 09:52:21 am
Head is a cracker when he plays like that, hard to believe he wasn't in the captaincy considerations given he already captains Sth Aus!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 10, 2021, 10:14:22 am
Head is a cracker when he plays like that, hard to believe he wasn't in the captaincy considerations given he already captains Sth Aus!
Not really a fixture in the team imo and one innings vs a depleted bowling lineup and 2nd rate fielding unit isn't enough proof for me at this stage he is cemented in as a player.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: raven on December 10, 2021, 10:20:09 am
Uzi or one of the current 'Australia A' openers should be prepped for the second test though. Harris needs to pull his finger out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 10, 2021, 10:35:27 am
Bat long enough to exhaust them.  They're demoralized now, so keep at them ... no declarations.  Ever.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 10, 2021, 04:32:01 pm
The pie chucker has bowled his one jaffa for the test,  time to piss him off to fine leg.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 10, 2021, 06:19:08 pm
Yet again, we make it hard for ourselves.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 10, 2021, 07:38:22 pm
The pie chucker has bowled his one jaffa for the test,  time to piss him off to fine leg.
Notice all the fanboys hanging it on Warne after that 1st pill, some are still writing a beat up in the various rags, but Warne looks closer to the money than any of them, surprise, surprise!

One goodun every hundred or so, that's about par for Starc!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 11, 2021, 06:40:20 am
We'll lose this test from here - and Adelaide as well because they'll play flogged bowlers and the Hoff (close to our most important bowler)  is injured.   I'm a Lyon fan but I fear the end is nigh.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 11, 2021, 06:54:09 am
We'll lose this test from here - and Adelaide as well because they'll play flogged bowlers and the Hoff (close to our most important bowler)  is injured.   I'm a Lyon fan but I fear the end is nigh.

Sure as hell hope not.  Knives will be out.  Agree, Lyon is past it
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 11, 2021, 09:24:26 pm
I called this wrong but I'm staggered how the poms folded today - exact opposite of yesterday.  Real fears that this was looking like a carbon copy of last year's debacle. Looks like somebody had a chat to Nathan and he finally varied things a little - it was all getting a bit predictable.  Starc is trying real hard but he just isn't getting the reverse he used to get and a four ball an over releases the pressure.  Can't see the pace triumvirate backing up in three days.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 11, 2021, 10:34:58 pm
I called this wrong but I'm staggered how the poms folded today - exact opposite of yesterday. 

Don't think we dropped a catch either
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 12, 2021, 12:04:57 am
Great win by the Aussies after the Poms showed a bit of fight.

I'm surprised that some folk don't seem to understand the importance of a balanced bowling attack and how the pressure created by Starc's pace, line and length helps create wickets for the other bowlers.  In that context, Green's ability to bowl 15 odd overs without diminishing the pressure on the batters is a huge positive for the future of our Test team.  He does need to make runs though.

Nathan Lyon's performance was extraordinary, even if it took him a while to crack the 400th barrier.  Now that he's passed that milestone, I expect that he will have a great series.

The Poms will be a different side with Anderson and Broad in the 11 but you have to ask why they weren't in the lineup for the first Test  ::)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: raven on December 14, 2021, 03:58:26 pm
The Poms will be a different side with Anderson and Broad in the 11 but you have to ask why they weren't in the lineup for the first Test  ::)

Anderson's old calves were playing up, not worth the risk as he was never going to play all 5 tests in anycase. But surely you'd pick one of them at least in each match... they'll both come in for ADL. Pink ball test with dusk conditions align nicely for swing bowlers like anderson.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 14, 2021, 04:11:55 pm
Good news will be Wood out if both Anderson and Broad play... Robinson was their best bowler in Brisbane and in England vs NZ and India so he stays, Woakes has to bat at 8...
Reckon the Aus batters will be glad to see the back of the hostile Wood and the two old blokes record in Aus is average. 2-0 Australia...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on December 16, 2021, 12:41:24 pm
Cummins out of the 2nd Test as he is a close COVD contact. Neser in, Smith captain. Fast bowling line-up looks different with Starc, Richardson and Neser.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 16, 2021, 12:41:28 pm
Stitch Up!

NSW Cricket Advanced Coaching and Training Techniques;

How to Get Steve Smith back in the Big Chair 101!
    - Dredge up 5 year old long settled rubbish about Paine, make it about respect for women.
    - Appoint a new Captain, make Steve Smith vice captain.
    - Take the team out for dinner and sit the Captain next to a positive COVID case, just a day or so before the test!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 16, 2021, 12:50:37 pm
Cummins out of the 2nd Test as he is a close COVD contact. Neser in, Smith captain. Fast bowling line-up looks different with Starc, Richardson and Neser.

That’s gone from a balanced, complementary bowling attack to a job lot 🙄

Green will have to step up and I suspect Starc will struggle as the main man.  It’s a good chance for the Poms to square the series 🙁
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 16, 2021, 05:51:50 pm
Harris is only keeping the seat warm for somebody else.   Can't do the basics of a text opener - just hang around and knock the shine off.   And it wasn't even moving around or particularly malicious bowling.  Disappointing effort. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 16, 2021, 10:19:47 pm
Butler is symbolic of England's terrible fielding, one great catch then two drops, the last was a pudding that he should have swallowed. Why Foakes who is a brilliant keeper isn't playing I don't know...
Just rubbish cricket from England in the field and it's ruined the contest.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 17, 2021, 06:02:26 am
Marnus is certainly living a charmed life ... they'd better get a move on if we wish to see a result.  Odds are a draw.  Quite a tame pitch and no menace in the bowling.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 17, 2021, 07:30:39 am
Marnus is certainly living a charmed life ... they'd better get a move on if we wish to see a result.  Odds are a draw.  Quite a tame pitch and no menace in the bowling.


Probably only have to bat once knowing England's poor batting lineup.
Stokes looks fitter which is probably our main concern...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 17, 2021, 08:19:36 am
Gonna be oppressive heat as well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 17, 2021, 09:43:04 pm
The way this is going looks like a follow on is a possibility
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 17, 2021, 10:07:32 pm
The way this is going looks like a follow on is a possibility
Game is over unless Root and Malan score big in this innings.
Burns and Hameed are club cricketers at best..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2021, 09:43:19 am
Game is over unless Root and Malan score big in this innings.
Burns and Hameed are club cricketers at best..

We are so averse to declaring follow ons.  But again, places the pressure back on us call innings #2 done and hope they crumble.  We'll need at least a day and a half to be confident about achieving that.

 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 19, 2021, 11:33:14 am
Cricket has changed a lot over the last decade, the virtual disappearance of the follow on is a symptom of that, the bowlers get little or no off time anymore.

Finish a test and they are into T20 or ODI, the BCCI realised this and set up a system to ensure it's Test players can move in and out of the T20 or ODI without any major financial penalty. Until other regions catch up on this we will continue to suffer lack lustre Tests, with players who look stale no dissimilar to England at the moment, of course playing conditions under COVID haven't helped.

In some respects, the problem is analogous with too many AFL 5 day breaks in the turnaround for interstate games, it's draining even if they are only playing T20.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 19, 2021, 11:36:25 am
Calling Burns a club cricketer is an insult to a club cricketer EB.   And Jimmy might have a zillion test wickets but his bowling has fair dinky stunk this test and his scowling and grumpy old man schtick is wearing thin.   I can see why the Aussie bowlers peppered the tail ender's... Not much love there. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 19, 2021, 11:49:35 am
Calling Burns a club cricketer is an insult to a club cricketer EB.  And Jimmy might have a zillion test wickets but his bowling has fair dinky stunk this test and his scowling and grumpy old man schtick is wearing thin.  I can see why the Aussie bowlers peppered the tail ender's... Not much love there.
Just because they are smiling, joking and laughing with each other doesn't mean things won't degenerate into an "Eye for an Eye!"
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2021, 12:37:46 pm
Calling Burns a club cricketer is an insult to a club cricketer EB.   And Jimmy might have a zillion test wickets but his bowling has fair dinky stunk this test and his scowling and grumpy old man schtick is wearing thin.   I can see why the Aussie bowlers peppered the tail ender's... Not much love there. 
Fair point Prof, this is one of the worst English teams I have seen....Anderson and Broad are done and should not have toured especially with their mediocre record in Aus. Stokes is banged up having to hold the team together and apart from Root and Malan who I cant believe couldnt get a game for 4 years are their only decent batsman.
Butler isnt a good keeper and like I keep saying when you have the best gloveman in the world in Foakes there must be some political reason he isnt playing.
Andersons body language is terrible,at least Broad looks competitive.....our attack wasnt great either and thats what makes it worse for England and dont get me started on their fielding which is high school standard.
Some of Englands one day specialists in Vince and Livingston would walk into this team IMO, both ideally suited to Aus and both great in the field and the latter can bowl handy leggies.
Silverwood is a useless coach and clueless selection wise, you want an ashes series competitive but this will be a whitewash given how poor England are on and off the field.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 19, 2021, 01:11:13 pm
Some of Englands one day specialists in Vince and Livingston would walk into this team IMO, both ideally suited to Aus and both great in the field and the latter can bowl handy leggies.
There is your problem @ElwoodBlues1‍ , why bother with Tests when they can go and play T20 somewhere and earn 3x the money for 1/5th the effort!

I doubt the ICC has the balls to rein in the BCCI to stop what it is doing to cricket, too many on the international panel are pigs at the trough!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2021, 01:32:23 pm
... but this will be a whitewash given how poor England are on and off the field.

Gotta admire the Barmy Army though ... without their humour, there'd be little joy in the tour.

And at least, clean your bloody test caps England and look like a side.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on December 19, 2021, 09:03:50 pm

Butler isnt a good keeper and like I keep saying when you have the best gloveman in the world in Foakes there must be some political reason he isnt playing.


They’ve picked butler and woakes for their batting.  You know you are jumping at shadows and don’t trust your top order when you don’t pick ur best keeper and seamer, because you want 7 and 8 sured up.   Real club cricket stuff - where you see the specialist no8
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 20, 2021, 01:16:15 am
They’ve picked butler and woakes for their batting.  You know you are jumping at shadows and don’t trust your top order when you don’t pick ur best keeper and seamer, because you want 7 and 8 sured up.   Real club cricket stuff - where you see the specialist no8
Agree their selections are always negative imo and show no faith in their batting lineup. They have two decent young leg spinners in Crane and Parkinson but were too scared to bring them. They also have three quicks in Norwell. Mahmood and SA born Brydon Carse who I would have brought over given Archer and Stone were injured and unavailable. Norwell played for the Lions team and did well in the Aus A game. Yet we get the old blokes plus Woakes, Overton and Bess. The latter three can all hold the bat but won't be bowling out too many decent batting lineups in Aus and as you say are here because they can
provide support for that rubbery batting lineup.
Their selections for Aus and defensive mindset give them little hope. Stokes will make a good captain if given the opportunity full time.


Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 20, 2021, 03:20:16 pm
Sack Carey, it's always, always, always the keepers catch! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 21, 2021, 11:18:32 am
If the poms are serious Jimmy would be on the plane home and Broad not far behind.   Might be a happier camp too.  Other than maybe Hobart, remaining pitches are going to be dry and flat,  and if Stokes isn't going to bowl many overs then they need someone who can can bowl a lot. Wood for some shock value with the new ball might help as well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 21, 2021, 03:49:28 pm
If the poms are serious Jimmy would be on the plane home and Broad not far behind.   Might be a happier camp too.  Other than maybe Hobart, remaining pitches are going to be dry and flat,  and if Stokes isn't going to bowl many overs then they need someone who can can bowl a lot. Wood for some shock value with the new ball might help as well.
I could pick three English quicks at least like I said before who would do better in Aus than Broad and Anderson....what is with the English being slow learners. Woakes is a good cricketer but no good bowling in Australia on flat roads, Butler is probably the 3rd best keeper and Leach spinning into the pads of the Aussie lefties on flat tracks was always going to end in tears.
Stokes should be captain......
Root and Silverwood are clueless selection wise, England have more batting and bowling coaches than players but technique wise you have Burns playing everyball around his pads and Hameed on the front foot with his hands low looking shocked when the ball bounces on him.
Malan looked more dangerous than Leach bowling his part time leggies and they have Parkinson and Crane sat back in England when clearly they are the type of leg spinner on bouncy wickets that would cause more problems here in Aus.
I'd only play Broad in Melbourne and leave Anderson out......ins Wood, Bess, Crawley, Lawrence outs Anderson, Woakes, Burns and Hameed. Cummins should come in for Neser who looked a bit military medium at times....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 25, 2021, 03:33:13 pm
Broad got the ar5e, Anderson remains!

Boland in, good selection in my opinion, we need one bowler who is a workhorse type and can bowl more than 3 overs before having a rest, Boland is perfect as a 20+ over per day type! It's OK having sprinters when the track suits, but you need a cart horse to fill in the gaps! Hoff has done that job for years as well as being able to take early wickets, but he is not so reliable anymore injury wise!

It's a pity Boland is only being given an opportunity as a 32 year old, he should have been given an opportunity 4 or 5 years back, so should have Nesser! Then they could have rotated guys like Starc or Cummins in and out as will to keep them cherry-ripe and fresh!

For me though it is not just about Boland or Nesser opportunity, it's about making sure they don't break Richardson or Green before their career even gets started!

Back in the day our generation would bowl 12, 15 or 18 overs day just in 65 over matches. Someday we did that in the afternoon after having already bowled or limit in the Unders in the morning! Nowadays they restrict the kids to 6 or 8 overs in a day, and while they claim that protects them from stress related injuries I'm not sure it weeds out the durable from the fragile like the old days did! They get to a high level never having needed to bowl more than 8 or 10 overs in  a full days play!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 26, 2021, 03:44:14 pm
Absolute rubbish cricket from England, its not even a contest. Just watched Butler give his wicket away, he can't be bothered with playing test cricket anymore given the money he makes in the short formats.
This test should be over on the 4th day...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 26, 2021, 04:12:55 pm
Rinse and repeat with this mob.  Cringeworthy.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 27, 2021, 06:03:40 pm
Interesting end to day 2.    8)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 27, 2021, 08:21:28 pm
What are the odds a couple of the Poms come down with COVID overnight?

If they do it's proof they are soft as ............. !
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 27, 2021, 08:52:04 pm
Stokes was sailing very close to being timed out.  Incredulous not have the next man padded up as soon as the preceding player was heading out to the wicket.  That would have been the final insult to England ... never happened before in Tests.  Shamozzle 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2021, 11:58:47 am
What a smashing @ElwoodBlues1  :))  One for the record books !!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2021, 02:56:32 pm
What a smashing @ElwoodBlues1  :))  One for the record books !!
Cap, Yep it's got comical, hard to think of a more Comprehensive beating.
Hard to drop Boland if Hazlewood is fit compare that to England where you would drop about eight..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2021, 03:31:30 pm
Hard to drop Boland if Hazlewood is fit compare that to England where you would drop about eight..
By labelling Boland "The MCG Specialist", did the CA mafia set him up to be dropped regardless of the match result and personal form?

On the upside, if they drop Boland and lose, it's hammer time for the coach and a few of the CA selectors! ;)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on December 28, 2021, 07:27:43 pm
I was at the 'G today - as abymsal as the English batting was, the Australian bowling in this Test has been exceptional.  The Poms could have had a third innings and still lost. 

At least I can put a 'tick' against the box "there in  person when Australia wins the Ashes"......
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on December 28, 2021, 07:32:04 pm
Tonyo, so I can answer a question from my kid, would you mind me asking how much did entry cost and are they refunding it given play was over in an hour?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 29, 2021, 07:39:16 am
I thought stokes was clearly timed out, Smith was asking the umpire about it. Blocker might have made a mercy decision to prevent a rout turning into a humiliating rout.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 29, 2021, 08:21:26 am
I thought stokes was clearly timed out, Smith was asking the umpire about it. Blocker might have made a mercy decision to prevent a rout turning into a humiliating rout.
I would have fined England for Stokes lateness and docking them points, been bowling crap over rates too.
Think you are right though they went easy due to the state of the game.
Stokes mind seems somewhere else the whole series and looks totally disinterested.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 29, 2021, 09:21:44 am
I thought stokes was clearly timed out, Smith was asking the umpire about it. Blocker might have made a mercy decision to prevent a rout turning into a humiliating rout.

I'd like to see it again in real time.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on December 29, 2021, 09:26:48 am
Tonyo, so I can answer a question from my kid, would you mind me asking how much did entry cost and are they refunding it given play was over in an hour?
$100 - bit steep when you consider 1 hour's play.  Official CA policy is <15 overs AND no result on the day, so no go on the refund.

However, Scotty Boland was one of those 'I was there' moments and I don't think I will get another chance to be at the ground on the day an Ashes series is won.  So, all in all, money well spent....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on December 29, 2021, 09:59:00 am
I suppose that's a cheaper hourly rate than you'd pay at certain establishments and a cricket fan would argue it's far more memorable  :)  Thanks for the response.

Cricket Australia would be bleeding that they lost a day and attendances were lower because of Covid, especially as crowds might be down for the last 2 Tests. I'd imagine the Boxing Day Test is one of its great cash cows.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 29, 2021, 01:19:27 pm
It used to be that the first day of the Boxing Day test paid for the entire summer,  don't know if that still holds.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 29, 2021, 01:22:26 pm
It used to be that the first day of the Boxing Day test paid for the entire summer,  don't know if that still holds.
I heard the CA CEO state if they got 100K over the test is was a winner, so I gather they did OK because they hit that number on Day 2!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 29, 2021, 08:36:11 pm
Tickets for C seats were $150, down to $30 for F.  We were in E and went as a family.   While it was over in an hour and a bit,  it was pretty good entertainment and the atmosphere was great.  My mate & I agreed that we thought it was still not bad value - our kids really enjoyed the demolition.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 29, 2021, 09:25:41 pm
Tickets for C seats were $150, down to $30 for F.  We were in E and went as a family.   While it was over in an hour and a bit,  it was pretty good entertainment and the atmosphere was great.  My mate & I agreed that we thought it was still not bad value - our kids really enjoyed the demolition.

All things considered, the day could have been a lot longer had England applied itself; taking nothing away from our bowling though. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on December 30, 2021, 03:03:23 pm
Tickets for C seats were $150, down to $30 for F.  We were in E and went as a family.   While it was over in an hour and a bit,  it was pretty good entertainment and the atmosphere was great.  My mate & I agreed that we thought it was still not bad value - our kids really enjoyed the demolition.

Paying for 80 minutes of that type of entertainment, and the history that came with it, is still really well worth it. The atmosphere would have been something. I generally go to a day of the Test but COVID kept me away, especially with a mother with underlying conditions.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on December 31, 2021, 07:07:26 am
Paying for 80 minutes of that type of entertainment, and the history that came with it, is still really well worth it. The atmosphere would have been something. I generally go to a day of the Test but COVID kept me away, especially with a mother with underlying conditions.

It was well worth it, when you consider seeing a debutant taking 6-7 and Australia winning the Ashes.  Etched in the memory (and much easier to remember seeing how short it was!).
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2021, 10:09:34 am
It was well worth it, when you consider seeing a debutant taking 6-7 and Australia winning the Ashes.  Etched in the memory (and much easier to remember seeing how short it was!).
Being there to watch that Boland moment is a once in a lifetime experience, like winning a lottery.

Years from now you and your family will have passed by a million people who remember sitting next to you at that very moment, or just a row away! ;)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2021, 10:12:59 am
We need Punter to take the Pommy job, we need the old rivalries back if Test Cricket has any chance of overcoming the BCCI's money grab.

Test Cricket should be restored to it's full gladiatorial status, so that coliseums like the MCG thrive, and T20 / ODI is returned to being the clown support act for the big boys! The truth hurts, but T20 is full of failed Test Cricketers.

Unfortunately, kids always have been and always will be attracted to the clowns, .....
(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/3bdc647/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3200x1768+0+0/resize/840x464!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F7c%2F1d%2Fc11c1b0e46cab3e7d14be3663c1e%2Fla-et-mn-tiff-movies-02.jpg)
 ................... but evil hides there, ask any prosopophobic!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 31, 2021, 10:35:07 am
We need Punter to take the Pommy job, we need the old rivalries back if Test Cricket has any chance of overcoming the BCCI's money grab.

We need Test Cricket restored to it's full gladiatorial status, for coliseums like the MCG to thrive, and T20 / ODI returned to being the clown support act for the big boys!

The truth hurts, but T20 is full of failed Test Cricketers.
Quentin DeKock just retired from Test Cricket but will play the shorter formats, been batting like he couldnt care less in the recent series vs India and says he wants to spend more time with the family but I think he wants more money and less effort.
Test Cricket is going to have to pay more to keep the better players interested which will be difficult in the less well to do countries.
The IPL has its tentacles everywhere, new test kid for the Saffies named Marco Janssen who is a giant left arm quick was plucked by Virat Kholi from domestic cricket for the IPL even before he even played test cricket as a 21 year old.
Test cricket has become a 2 tier comp with Aus, England, India and NZ as the A graders and the Saffies, Pakistan Windies and the minnows as the B graders.
You watch the test between SA and India from Supersport park and its like going to the Junction oval and watching a shield game.
Ok there is CoVid to complicate matters but the interest is waning and the Saffies were the best team in the world at one stage but nowhere near that now with even the English county scene and short formats offering more than being a test cricketer for South Africa.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2021, 11:08:16 am
Quentin DeKock just retired from Test Cricket but will play the shorter formats, been batting like he couldnt care less in the recent series vs India and says he wants to spend more time with the family but I think he wants more money and less effort.
It's not purely about money although I concede that money affects the decision.

The problem is there is just too much cricket, there is no off-season.

Until there are some global rules about how much and who can play things are only going to get worse, the ICC is addicted to the BCCI dollar so I can't see it happening.

I heard a suggestion that I thought was on the money, pardon the pun, put a cap on how many professional games players can actually play as a "guardian rule" to prevent the quality of the cricket diminishing, and make it applicable across all forms of the sport. Because despite how much T20 pays, one T20 still doesn't pay as much as one test. If you cap international players at say 30 games per season, they are going to have to make very hard decisions. Because 30 T20 games won't get the bulk of them the money that they want. This gives national bodies a chance of matching the money. Anyway, something like that is needed to stop T20 marching over the grave of Test Cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on December 31, 2021, 12:08:49 pm
Travis Head has come down with COVID and likely be replaced by Nic Maddinson.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2021, 12:47:17 pm
What's the odds Parrotsay's politics and the NSW Cricket Board screw this up for everybody? ;)

If they can't get their way, this is a taking their bat and ball and buggering off home moment! I feel sorry for Hobart, they'll spend big trying to make the inaugural Hobart Ashes test an event and NSW are going to try and spear them before they even fire a shot!

I wouldn't even be surprised to find NSW push ahead regardless, and then launch a grab to keep the last test in Sydney!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 31, 2021, 01:42:13 pm
Travis Head has come down with COVID and likely be replaced by Nic Maddinson.
They have included Mitch Marsh and Josh Inglis in the squad too.. Think Khawaja will get a game this time..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2021, 04:05:55 pm
I suspect they'll bring in Marsh, which lets them drop both Boland and Richardson to bring in Hoff and also bring in Swepson, leaving a team with three dedicated fast bowlers, two serious seaming all-rounders and two spinners.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on December 31, 2021, 05:04:51 pm
I suspect they'll bring in Marsh, which lets them drop both Boland and Richardson to bring in Hoff and also bring in Swepson, leaving a team with three dedicated fast bowlers, two serious seaming all-rounders and two spinners.

Doubt Hazelwood will be ready. Still only bowling gently in the nets. side strains rarely recover quickly. Think the bowling line up will be Starc, Cummins, Richardson/Swepson, Lyon, Green.

This is where having Green, who is starting to look a top notch bowler, is so good. Allows us to play 2 spinners if we want. Once he gets his batting together he'll be something. Right now looking a bit nervous batting. One innings and it'll turn around for him. He only has to average 35 to be most valuable as an all rounder. Averaged 33 last summer.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on December 31, 2021, 05:14:00 pm
They have included Mitch Marsh and Josh Inglis in the squad too.. Think Khawaja will get a game this time..

The way England is going you can almost bet whoever comes in for Head makes 100...lol.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 31, 2021, 11:13:23 pm
The way England is going you can almost bet whoever comes in for Head makes 100...lol.
Probably right although dead rubber tests tend to see the underdogs do better, I'd just play the one spinner and continue with the pace barrage and keep my foot on the English throat. England remind me of a certain football club we all love, been struggling off the field and it usually leads to onfield misery..How the coach only gets to pick the team is beyond me, Ashley Giles was a dud spinner and a equally dud cricket administrator to give Silverwood total control.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 01, 2022, 11:27:31 am
No,  please god no to Marsh.   Had enough chances at test level.   Unreliable with bat,  not good enough with ball.   Great short form cricketer but has never translated that onto the test stage - particularly against good opposition under pressure.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: sandsmere on January 02, 2022, 01:44:56 pm
No,  please god no to Marsh.   Had enough chances at test level.   Unreliable with bat,  not good enough with ball.   Great short form cricketer but has never translated that onto the test stage - particularly against good opposition under pressure.






Agree Prof.


Marsh is not international cricket standard.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on January 04, 2022, 10:15:07 pm
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/england-team-fourth-ashes-test-stuart-broad-in-ollie-robinson/100738294

“DECKCHAIIRS…”
“ATTENNTION…!!!”
“FORWARD…!! MARCH!!!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 05, 2022, 11:14:22 am
With rain forecast for days on end, we can probably expect a draw, BUT it is England
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 05, 2022, 02:54:25 pm
With rain forecast for days on end, we can probably expect a draw, BUT it is England
Law of averages says the English have to improve..
Bangers knocked over the Kiwis at home so miracles do happen.
Review system is a mess world wide one ball in NZ hit the middle of the bat and the bowling team appealed for lbw, Pant in South Africa caught two where the ball bounced clearly on the half volley imo but the technology isn't good enough to provide clarity. Benefit of the doubt to the batsman is long gone..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 05, 2022, 03:38:34 pm
India aren't noted for their honesty O:-)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 07, 2022, 01:41:07 pm
Here they go again .... the worst England team to ever tour here; at least from my living memory.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 08, 2022, 11:59:00 am
Getting a bit over the Khawaja and Head boosters continually bashing Harris on the broadcast, hardly a positive word for the poor bloke issued in 4 days of cricket! The oldies want Khawaja in, it's their fairy-tale and probably rightly so, the Sth Australians want Head back for Hobart. But Harris hasn't missed a game and has probably done OK, enough to retain his spot, more than some others have done in the past to retain their spots! ;)

(PS; I don't mind them boosting Khawaja, but don't do it by bashing somebody else, speak about Khawaja on his merits!)

It very similar to the Boland ("MCG Specialist") bashing in the lead-up to the SCG test, asking for him to be replaced by Hazelwood or Swepson / Richardson, I don't get it, especially from Ponting as he was Australia's captain, and it's not like a Tasmanian is in the running for either spot. Now it turns out Hazelwood was never in the running, and won't even be considered for Hobart!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 08, 2022, 06:11:35 pm
Jim was right twice with Khawaja, it's a reflection on the English bowling and Roots lack of nous as captain that he could come in and score with such ease.
Worst English team I have seen for sure...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 08, 2022, 10:37:02 pm
Jim was right twice with Khawaja, it's a reflection on the English bowling and Roots lack of nous as captain that he could come in and score with such ease.
Worst English team I have seen for sure...
The Poms are broken, right at this moment they are weaker than Bangladesh!
 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 09, 2022, 07:41:23 pm
Well, that was the one that got away .... meh, it happens
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 09, 2022, 08:12:24 pm
Well, that was the one that got away .... meh, it happens
English showed some fight today, Crawley can play and Stokes, Leach love a rear guard action. Jonny Bairstow showed plenty of grit and spirit but they need more youth coming through.
Langar and Cummins mucked up the declaration but that's cricket...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 09, 2022, 08:34:08 pm
English showed some fight today, Crawley can play and Stokes, Leach love a rear guard action. Jonny Bairstow showed plenty of grit and spirit but they need more youth coming through.
Langar and Cummins mucked up the declaration but that's cricket...

Given they were never likely to chase down that target, it was at least 45 minutes too late.  Boland's got the goods though.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 10, 2022, 09:29:37 am
There was plenty enough time,  I thought we were poor with both new balls,  especially the first one.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 10, 2022, 09:41:10 am
There was plenty enough time,  I thought we were poor with both new balls,  especially the first one.
Didn't think Lyon was great either and of course we dropped a couple of catches plus Green half bowling Stokes was an unusual non dismissal when the bails wouldn't fall.
Lost seven overs due to rain after lunch and couldn't bowl our quicks at the end because of the light.. All conspired against us...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: sandsmere on January 10, 2022, 10:09:54 am
Can.t do a lot better than 3 wins and the ashes in the first 3 games and only one wicket stopping us in the fourth game.

Usman K . . . . . . . great match.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on January 10, 2022, 10:34:26 am
In a parallel universe, did Boland get an early selection and shut Hazelwood out of the Test team? No wonder wicketkeepers would prefer to play with broken fingers rather than give their competition a chance at stealing their spots.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 10, 2022, 10:49:54 am
No wonder wicketkeepers would prefer to play with broken fingers rather than give their competition a chance at stealing their spots.
I think the quality differences between keepers is greatly over-stated by the media, unless they are like Gilchrist and piling on the runs the incumbent is always the favourite to get the next gig.

Carey should be a long term as he has both keeping and batting potential, batting with quick scoring which can bring results.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2022, 07:27:51 am
He needs to tidy up his keeping and sure up his batting a bit IMO.   He's done OK but after the first mix up with first slip the tolerance slips.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 12, 2022, 08:05:37 am
He needs to tidy up his keeping and sure up his batting a bit IMO.  He's done OK but after the first mix up with first slip the tolerance slips.
Yes, it is understandable.

Those slips mix ups are common when teams get the spacing wrong. I listened to Punter about this and my own cricket experience tells me they have it exactly the wrong. I rarely disagree with Punter but I will on this one, by spacing players further apart things will get worse when they are "forced to go for everything". The problem isn't the areas within reach, it's the area of doubt that becomes wider when you stand further apart, that causes a hesitation when players aren't confident and then it's too late to correct the reaction.

When I was captaining until I had confidence in the group behind the wicket I found keeping them closer together than normal was the best solution, very few if any chances went down and their confidence went through the roof, then they would naturally start standing a bit further apart. It can be especially important on pitches that are a bit variable, as you have to stand up closer to the stumps, you have got less time as you get closer to the wicket, so you need a narrower area to cover.

Rather than making them wider apart I found a bigger stagger to be more useful, have the keeper aligned with or even a step in front of 2nd slip and 1st slip well behind the keeper. This gives the slips freedom to dive about, even dive forward, without getting in each others way.

Years ago there were some stats I read once, circulating in cricket circles about where chances go statistically. It's some crazy percentage of catches go to the keeper or within the area of 1-1/2 keepers. Having the 1st slip and keeper closer together you still cover something like 80% of chances behind the wicket or across the whole field. I was quite surprised at those stats when I first read them, but if you think for a while it makes sense based on how many catches keepers get relative to the rest of the field! If 4:1 to either the keeper or 1st slip makes sense, than that's 80% of catches.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2022, 09:33:38 am
Carey has the Pakistan series to improve or he will be looked at imho.
Keeping to medium pacers in SA and Big bash bowlers hasnt helped him either.
Looks like his footwork needs correcting vs the quicks.
Gilchrist and Rod Marsh were not great when they started either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 12, 2022, 10:43:30 am
Keeping to medium pacers in SA and Big bash bowlers hasnt helped him either.
I think this has a much bigger impact than people realise.

Getting an extended run of keeping in 5 day cricket to become Test match fit is critical to build that muscle memory. It's not about physical fitness, it is as much about mental fitness. Good muscle memory keeps the basic mechanics of keeping going when you are becoming fatigued and not thinking at 100%.

Obviously I never played 5 days, but I did play 4 day cricket, and it's amazing how the required level of physical / mental endurance scales up as you go from 2 to 3 or 4 day. Most are not ready for it!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on January 12, 2022, 12:07:17 pm
Didn't think Lyon was great either and of course we dropped a couple of catches plus Green half bowling Stokes was an unusual non dismissal when the bails wouldn't fall.
Lost seven overs due to rain after lunch and couldn't bowl our quicks at the end because of the light.. All conspired against us...

Lyon has usually been somewhat solid, but now there have been several occasion where he has failed to have any significant impact on a 5th day wicket.  I just don't rate him as a bowler who can rip through a batting side.

We need a wrist-spinner badly.  Swepson would do for a start, but they should get Warnie in the mentor chair for young guy who plays for Sydney Thunder (Tanveer Sangha).
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2022, 12:44:10 pm
Lyon has usually been somewhat solid, but now there have been several occasion where he has failed to have any significant impact on a 5th day wicket.  I just don't rate him as a bowler who can rip through a batting side.

We need a wrist-spinner badly.  Swepson would do for a start, but they should get Warnie in the mentor chair for young guy who plays for Sydney Thunder (Tanveer Sangha).
Fair point on Lyon, he has never been that 5 for 20 type bowler who can skittle teams quickly, Swepson might get his chance vs Pakistan but on flat low pitches vs players who are used to leg spin its a tough debut series.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 13, 2022, 02:51:08 pm
It's the extra bounce that leg spinners get that's really dangerous on decent pitches.  On the rolled mud featherbeds they'll get in Pakistan it's hard work. Any error in line or length to batsmen that use their feet and it's innocuous, unless there's holes etc and it starts gripping.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on January 14, 2022, 10:26:58 am
It's the extra bounce that leg spinners get that's really dangerous on decent pitches.  On the rolled mud featherbeds they'll get in Pakistan it's hard work. Any error in line or length to batsmen that use their feet and it's innocuous, unless there's holes etc and it starts gripping.

Agree, but we need a leggie to start getting some Test experience with Ashes 2023 in mind.  In Pakistan, with Green able to bowl, they should be playing 2 quicks and 2 spinners.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2022, 03:10:40 pm
Interesting how the Indians have blown up at the Jaapies overnight....."have a look at your own  blokes when they're polishing the ball instead of always trying to catch the opposition out" was a noteworthy comment I thought.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 14, 2022, 05:26:28 pm
Interesting how the Indians have blown up at the Jaapies overnight....."have a look at your own  blokes when they're polishing the ball instead of always trying to catch the opposition out" was a noteworthy comment I thought.
Kholi and crew copped a working over from Rabada and new wonder kid Jansen.
He couldn't get it off the square and got frustrated with the SA quicks who keep getting him out. India don't like losing and Kholi has behaved like a immature kid along with Bumrah too who has his own private war going with Jansen. Saffies can win the series tonight and I will enjoy the fallout back home in India. Got to admit Pant though is a special player, 100 not out when his teammates struggled to get double figures..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 16, 2022, 06:52:10 pm
Stop throwing pies Mitchell and start bowling.

Too many minds not on the job this test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 16, 2022, 10:25:11 pm
We clearly don't need much to knock over the Poms.  Have a nice flight back home
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 20, 2022, 09:04:50 am
In a surprise move, Novax Djokovic has been appointed as England’s batting coach.

A spokesperson explained, “It took two weeks for the Australians to get him out!”
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 25, 2022, 09:03:51 am
I think it shows how far test cricket has departed from some nations' main menu.   We're reaping the benefit of more emphasis on long form cricket,  I'm seeing a real push at junior level towards developing correct technique.   I guess the idea is that if you've got good long form technique you can be flexible enough to "work down" the formats, but it doesn't work the other way.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 25, 2022, 09:13:58 am
Any form of intnl cricket is and will always be inferior to the Test standard.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 28, 2022, 09:48:44 am
Not sure why the girls do not get to play 5 day tests, it doesn't make sense to play 4 days and still require a team to take 20 wickets to get a win.
-----------------
As an aside, there is a suggestion floating around that for all test cricket (men and women) test innings should be limited in length, like capped at 120 overs or some other arbitrary value.

I do not agree. I can understand how the cap works at the start of a test, it helps sets up the test for a result, but I can't see it being a valid result in the last hours of day 5 if they get to some arbitrary over limit, perhaps one teams needs a wicket or a handful of runs, and they walk off for a draw!

What if only a the 1st innings was subject to an over cap, no test is decided on 1st innings anyway?

The for argument is that in some respects this has already partially happened, when we changed from 8 to 6 ball overs there was already a reduction in the number of balls bowled in a day with more changeovers consuming time, and time is balls bowled.

There are quite a few other suggestions floating around in the cricket sphere, I'd like to see some trialled in a 3-test series somewhere before they are globally applied to something like The Ashes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 29, 2022, 07:51:40 pm
Lyon has usually been somewhat solid, but now there have been several occasion where he has failed to have any significant impact on a 5th day wicket.  I just don't rate him as a bowler who can rip through a batting side.

We need a wrist-spinner badly.  Swepson would do for a start, but they should get Warnie in the mentor chair for young guy who plays for Sydney Thunder (Tanveer Sangha).
We need a wrist-spinner badly.  Swepson would do for a start, but they should get Warnie in the mentor chair for young guy who plays for Sydney Thunder (Tanveer Sangha).
[/quote] Lyon's best is past him, alas. He has been the best finger spinner we've had, but he has struggled for the last few years in the last innings of matches. I do like the look of Tanveer Sangha. I think he has potential.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 29, 2022, 07:54:25 pm
It's the extra bounce that leg spinners get that's really dangerous on decent pitches.  On the rolled mud featherbeds they'll get in Pakistan it's hard work. Any error in line or length to batsmen that use their feet and it's innocuous, unless there's holes etc and it starts gripping.
With the number of quicks that Pakistan has these days, I'm surprised they still provide crappy wickets. Guys like Haris Rauf are genuine test bowlers. They're country shouldn't disadvantage them so much.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Baggers on January 30, 2022, 09:35:59 am
Haven't been able to watch much cricket since witnessing the Maxwell / Stoinis demolition. Every other game just seemed such an anti-climax. Although those two lads were aided by the Taswegians fielding an ordinary bowling attack, it was still something to behold witnessing such a batting masterclass.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 24, 2022, 12:59:58 pm
I notice a storm has erupted about Mankad in district cricket, with a couple of player suspended for Mankads.

By removing Mankad as an option, batsmen are taking advantage and storming off down the pitch unregulated. Some non-strikers are a meter or more out of the crease at the time of release. It's ridiculous that this is allowed to persist but the current rules prevent opposition bowlers doing anything about it. Umpires are supposed to police the batsmen, but this doesn't work at lower levels as the umpire is already focussed on the bowlers feet followed by the line of the ball.

I think this can be resolved by a very simple rule change for all cricket, basically the problem is the non-striker being able to charge down the pitch without penalty and with very low risk, so increase the risk. Remove the requirement for a fielding player to make contact with the ball before the stumps are broken by a shot off the bat. So that the risk of leaving the crease remains firmly with the non-striker, if they are out of the crease and the stumps are broken, with or without any fielder having laid a hand on the ball, they are out run out!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 24, 2022, 05:02:43 pm
Back in the day, the done thing was to warn the non-striker first.  After that warning it was OK to run the batter out if s/he backed up too far and left the crease (but it would still outrage some cricket “purists”) . I would change the laws of the game to make that former gentlemanly behaviour official.  If the non-striker cheats by leaving his/her crease, any bowler can run them out any time in the innings after the batter has been warned.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 14, 2022, 01:32:05 pm
Something to put in the back of your mind regarding Carey. His batting so far in his career hasn't exactly set the world on fire. But a column in The Age made a good point that he has batted with a view to maximising the team's chances of winning rather than maximising his own score. As this columnist said, he could easily have become more selective with his shot-making as he entered the 90s in order to maximise his chance of a maiden Test century but instead he carried on with risky sweeps and reverse sweeps to accelerate the scoring. He ended up being bowled by a part-time bowler while playing a sweep as a result. That meant Cummins can decide to declare overnight without having to eke out a few more runs on Day 3 or give Carey the ability to crawl to 100. The columnist claimed that the same commitment to team strategy led Carey to give away his wicket in innings against the Poms. In short, he's the anti-Boycott. Thoughts?

Might be worth watching for Swepson's debut tonight. It's not as though the pitch is going to allow the quicks to rip through the batting order before that happens.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2022, 02:35:59 pm
Pitches in Pakistan are a nightmare for bowlers of both teams, just flat tracks where the ball scuffs easy and its impossible to get wickets. We have the best attack in world cricket IMHO but the Pakis hammered us in the 1st Test especially their openers, they got some of their own medicine this game after they bowled around the wicket down legside to slow the scoring rate in a disgraceful display and Carey sparked the innings by playing like he does in white ball cricket where he built his reputation as a quick scorer.
I think Carey is a decent player and reasonable keeper, he isnt going to be the next Gilchrist but I think he can be a valuable player, probably needs to make runs when the going gets tough on good bowling tracks to show he can graft and counter atack but I agree his batting vs England was compromised where he sacrificed himself for the good of the time on a few occasions.
Hoping Swepson does well but fear for the kid on these tracks vs players who play spin every day of the week and on small grounds where miss hits disappear for six. Maybe the Pakis will be over cocky and play without much care so we can take advantage and make a result possible....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2022, 04:52:34 pm
Barring a batting collapse, I expect this is very much "draw" territory EB.  :)   
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 14, 2022, 05:26:28 pm
No doubt the quicks aren't going to blast out the Pakistani batsmen on such a tame wicket. But the hope is that the cracks create inconsistent bounce and the abrasive pitch helps create reverse swing later. Presumably, this is why Cummins kept batting into Day 3, giving Australia a possibility of getting the Pakistanis to follow on if the strategy works. The follow on target is now 356 rather than 305.

In any event, the Australians now have roughly twice the odds of a series win compared to Pakistan given that it's hard to see how Pakistan wins this test. Admittedly, that's twice an infinitessimal probability. If Australia does win this Test, the curators at the ground for the 3rd Test will need to reverse course and create a bowlers' paradise in the hope of evening up. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 14, 2022, 05:37:50 pm
Okay, here comes Swepson!

Pretty good 1st over. The 1st ball was on a good length but would have hit the middle strap on the pad if the batsman didn't get a bat to it. That would worry them.  The batsmen then started running like startled rabbits. The throw hit the wickets on the 1st quick run but the batsman was well in, but then on the 2nd quick single one batsman started running while the other didn't. Again, no cost to the Pakistanis. But in Lyon's new over, the twitchy running came back to haunt them with Swepson running out Shafique by half a metre! They're not as composed as you would have thought.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2022, 07:35:57 pm
Well well well ... 4 down for 66.  That ain't healthy

EDIT - now close to enforcing the follow on. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 14, 2022, 08:21:24 pm
84/6! Google's live score suggests Australia has a 75% chance of winning now. Who wants to chip in to hire some mercenaries armed with AK-47s to make sure the pitch is safe during the next 2 nights?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2022, 09:33:34 pm
We'll have two days to win this .... lovely ....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 14, 2022, 10:12:27 pm
WTF? All out for 148 and 408 runs behind and Cummins won't enforce the follow-on ...

None of our bowlers have raised a sweat. Why bat again?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2022, 10:32:30 pm
WTF? All out for 148 and 408 runs behind and Cummins won't enforce the follow-on ...

None of our bowlers have raised a sweat. Why bat again?

Mystifying to say the very least @Mav ... and meaningless IMO
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 14, 2022, 10:34:02 pm
WTF? All out for 148 and 408 runs behind and Cummins won't enforce the follow-on ...

None of our bowlers have raised a sweat. Why bat again?
I'd bat again, just to freshen up the bowlers there is still two days and another test to go.

I do think Cummins made a mistake, but it wasn't batting again.

The Pakistanis used the light roller prior to batting, that would have been to preserve the wicket assuming they could mount a defence over the remaining three days, they have local knowledge.

Cummins should have bat again just to use the heavy roller on the wicket, make it break up and deteriorate faster, give the Aussies only a handful of overs to bat out of the two remaining days. If the heavy roller was the right one to settle down the wicket the Pakistanis would have used it already and they didn't! Then after using the heavy roller I'd bat 15 or 20 overs and then declare to get 4 or 5 overs at them tonight.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 15, 2022, 12:19:42 pm
Near 500 runs ahead?  You playing for a draw Patrick?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on March 15, 2022, 12:37:33 pm
They will bat for 1 hour more, then have the best of 2 full days to roll them with no chance of losing.  I don't have a problem with what they've done - imagine if we'd enforced the follow on, and Pakistan set us 120 to win on a crumbling wicket?   Much rather knock off that extra 120 at the end of day 3 and let them play in the dirt.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 15, 2022, 12:51:35 pm
They're relying on the pitch deteriorating a bit more,  plus absolutely physically and mentally grinding the Pakis into the dirt. Approach seems to have worked thus far.   Remember, only one side has pushed to win a game, the other has stonewalled.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 15, 2022, 01:17:31 pm
They're relying on the pitch deteriorating a bit more,  plus absolutely physically and mentally grinding the Pakis into the dirt. Approach seems to have worked thus far.  Remember, only one side has pushed to win a game, the other has stonewalled.
It's no given, our blokes got the ball to reverse which made a huge difference, then the opposition basically surrendered. The media was claiming the pitch was deteriorating, but then we come out and make 81 runs for the loss of 1 wicket.

Lyon and Swepson didn't have much impact, if the pitch stays stable and the ball doesn't reverse it could be a long two days!

It's far from conclusive.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2022, 04:29:08 pm
Khawaja has 301 runs during this series at an average of 150.5. Not too shabby.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2022, 04:54:36 pm
Lyon and Swepson didn't have much impact, if the pitch stays stable and the ball doesn't reverse it could be a long two days!

Cummins’ Australians do a Pakistan on Pakistan, The Age. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/cummins-australians-do-a-pakistan-on-pakistan-20220314-p5a4mx.html)
Quote
During the interminable Rawalpindi Test match, Waqar Younis conveyed a story that spoke much about how Pakistan operated at their best in his time.

The wily leg spinner Mushtaq Ahmed used to curse Waqar and Wasim Akram in the field, not without reason. The moment Mushtaq’s wrist spin claimed a wicket, the pacemen would be called in to wreak havoc on new batters with reverse swing.

Years later in the commentary box at his nation’s former fortress in Karachi’s National Stadium, Waqar would not have totally enjoyed the passage of day three.

But he could not have denied the familiarity of proceedings: catalysed by the debutant Mitchell Swepson and Nathan Lyon, then capitalised by Mitchell Starc, Cameron Green and the captain Pat Cummins, Australia inflicted a Pakistan on their hosts.

,,,

There will be those who look at a scorecard providing bare basics and assert that Swepson’s inclusion made no difference to the outcome. That Hazlewood might also have moved the old ball and that a second spin bowler was a luxury not affordable in these tough economic times.

But such conclusions would miss the skittish footwork Swepson’s introduction drew from Imam-ul-Haq before lunch, as the wrist spinner threatened footmarks that were too wide for Lyon. It was a testament to his eagerness for involvement that Swepson swooped from backward point to throw out Abdullah Shafique before lunch, his arm still warm from over No.1 in Test cricket.

Leg spin had, one way or another, changed the balance in the way that Warne had done for 15 wondrous years, and the hectic passages in early afternoon underlined the point. Knowing that he would eventually be challenged by Swepson out of the rough, Imam miscalculated to Lyon and punched to an exultant Cummins at mid on.

...

Once the day’s pivotal passages had taken place, and only remnants of the Pakistan innings remained, Swepson and Lyon returned to the bowling crease, an opportunity not always afforded Mushtaq.

Here Australia’s decision-makers got a glimpse of Swepson’s possibilities. His first ball of a spell looped, drifted and dropped on Babar Azam, coaxing a skier held exultantly by Usman Khawaja. Not too long later, Shaheen Afridi was beaten by a sharply spinning leg break, then a well-pitched wrong’un, then given lbw on the sweep.

Swepson and Lyon walked off with 3-45 between them. They had played vital roles in the day that tilted this series, as Australia played and beat Pakistan at the tempo game they have made their own for decades.

IOW, the strategy has largely been the reverse of the usual fast vs. spin bowlers dynamic. Usually, the fast bowlers take early wickets and expose the middle order & tail to spin. But in this case, the spinners made the breakthrough and the reverse swing fast bowlers took advantage.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2022, 05:04:31 pm
Nathan Lyon just bowled a good length ball to Imam-Ul-Haq which would have hit the bottom half of his pad if he hadn't managed to clamp down on it. A few balls later, he's been given out LBW to another one that has kept a bit low. The pitch is variable, but an odd sort of variability. The only variation is that sometimes it keeps low. There isn't much unexpected sideways movement and the ball doesn't kick up, but the tendency to keep low means the batters have to get a bat on it or they risk an LBW.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2022, 05:36:05 pm
Pakistan isn't bothering to chase the total: 10 runs off 15 overs. It'll be 2 days of defensive shots.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2022, 06:51:26 pm
Wow, Green dismissed Azhar Ali LBW when Ali ducked a bouncer only to find it hit him around the groin as he squatted "underneath" the bouncer. Bizarrely, he discussed taking a review with his batting partner for so long he ran out of time. After he was safely ensconced in the dressing room, snicko showed the ball hit his glove on the way through! 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2022, 07:15:17 pm
Smith dropped a pudd in slips off Cummins. Shafique has a life at 20.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 16, 2022, 11:50:15 pm
The draw was probably a fair result.  Both teams worked their butts off but the Pakistanis have unearthed some very promising batters.

It seemed that the game was played in good spirits and that's nice to see.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 17, 2022, 07:11:34 am
A lot of people(media / fans) slammed Cummins for not enforcing the follow on, but on that pitch it has now been justified.

I do however stand by my earlier criticism regarding the selection of roller, Cummins should have used the heavy roller before our short innings to try and further break up the pitch. Next time he'll pay more attention to what the opposition does.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 17, 2022, 12:11:34 pm
Need to give a break to a few of Cummo's NSW mates.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 17, 2022, 12:18:21 pm
Need to give a break to a few of Cummo's NSW mates.
Swepson doesn't / didn't look ready to me, he's far off having the control needed to be a reliable impacter of games, and he may never get it, mind you he had some bad luck and could have easily had a couple of wickets but the international teams will always make him pay a high price for each wicket.

The problem is for all the good sessions erratic bowlers have, they undo the build up of pressure at other times, Starc is the same.

Lyon isn't getting younger, and looked head and shoulders above the rest.

Without some assistance form the wicket, even Cummins looked ordinary, not enough tricks. Keep in mind his reputation is built over the last few years of COVID related cricket in regions that aren't as challenging as Pakistan or India. There is a huge difference playing against those teams at their home versus some neutral venue like Dubai.

Watching the final session last night, I had to wonder what Zampa has done wrong, and I also thought if we had Fawad Ahmed playing we might well have won! But that's a short term outlook.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 17, 2022, 01:22:35 pm
Other than a brief period with the reversing pill,  Starc hasn't exactly set the world on fire recently and his record in later tests within a series is poor.   I bet the next pitch is a raging turner given its zip all after 2.

Wonder if Agar isn't worth a try either.   Too many pies from Swepson amongst some good deliveries.   Without control it doesn't matter if it's spin or pace,  you can't build or exert pressure, and you can't comply with bowling plans.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 17, 2022, 01:37:54 pm
Wonder if Agar isn't worth a try either. 
Very good point about Agar, the main trouble Lyon caused was related to bounce and Agar gets that naturally courtesy of his extra height, but he is not a big turner however he has a modicum of control not exhibited by Swepson.

If only Agar was a NSWelshmen!

Not sure if you watched last night, they bang on about how much Lyon and Swepson give it a rip, then Labuschagne came on for an over and made them both look dead straight although with even less control than Swepson!

They had Smith, Head, Labuschange, and with his lack of control Swepson really looks like a luxury item. Now you've made me think I'd go Lyon, Agar and one of the other three batsmen for short spells.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 17, 2022, 02:23:48 pm
Swepson did look out of his depth but so did Shane Warne when Ravi Shastri was hammering him around in his first test. Leggies take a while and while Agar will give you control and save runs I still think we need to persist with Swepson in Pakistan.
If I was playing Agar it would be in India where left arm orthodox like Jadeja and Axar dominate and the sneaky Indians fix the wickets to suit them both.
If I was teaching kids how to bat I would show them a video of Babar Azam in terms of technique, he is very textbook and organised with his footwork. Thought we lost this test due to some poor fielding especially from Smith who is normally reliable but everyone has a bad day no matter how good they are.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 22, 2022, 11:05:24 am
Might be time to think about calling it a day Warner ....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 22, 2022, 11:31:21 am
Might be time to think about calling it a day Warner ....
I'm not opposed to blokes like Warner extending their career, but I am opposed to welded on selection, it should be more of a horses for courses, just as winning a spot shouldn't mean long term tenure, losing your spot should not mean oblivion.

I think Head is a prime example of this, he is a guy who's bread and butter is square of the wicket, and they play him on pitches that have variable bounce, it just doesn't make sense. Possibly the ACB think sending him to Pakistan is a reward for effort, is it a reward or punishment?
 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 22, 2022, 11:36:36 pm
I'm not sure why folk want to see the back of Warner.  Is it because Khawaja is doing OK and another whipping boy is required?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 23, 2022, 07:50:17 am
Because he's got old batsman disease.   Patchy form and inconsistency.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 23, 2022, 09:35:23 am
Because he's got old batsman disease.  Patchy form and inconsistency.
Yes it's a huge problem, because of the way we haven't given enough opportunities to the types like Green. You can see it coming Warner, Hazelwood, Lyon, Smith, Starc, Marsh, Khawaja even a relative newbie like Boland, they are all going to shuffle off in quick succession.

FFS, look at Payne's replacement Carey, he is already 30 years old and they talk about him like he is a newbie with a long career ahead of him, when it's more likely he only has a few years left!

When I discuss this I get labelled ageist, but in fact the way the ACB has behaved is the exact opposite, it's an old boys club, but I suppose you could say as much about cricket as an institution in general. Even this week Bob Simpson was being used as an example of "potential longevity", is respect to the potential for selecting 30 year olds, but the bulk of his career was played in a era when 12 to 18 tests a year was the total playing demand.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 24, 2022, 09:14:04 am
Pakistan crumble 7 gone for 20 .... we might win this series yet. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 24, 2022, 09:37:28 am
Pakistan crumble 7 gone for 20 .... we might win this series yet.
The series is being defined by Pakistanis batting collapses, the Pakistan inconsistency is more influential than Australian performance.

It's like Australia just have to hang in long enough for the Pakistanis to self-destruct, those of us with a long term interest in the game will see this as quite a contradiction given the history of Pakistan cricket tends to be built in the grind.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 24, 2022, 10:07:36 am
On the evidence, it was fantastic bowling by Cummins / Starc that put us where we are now.

They were completely outclassed.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 24, 2022, 11:35:13 am
Reverse swing is a real weapon when bowlers are bowling around 145 clicks. That produces late swing and little time for batsmen to adjust. And the dirt around the pitch provides a perfect means of preparing the ball for reverse swing. Well thrown returns to the keeper on the bounce on that abrasive surface accelerate the process.

It's funny that ball tampering is okay as long as it's not achieved using obvious tactics like sandpaper. But it has my seal of approval as it has provided some balance to the battle between bat and ball given the improvements in bats these days. Imagine how lifeless this series would be without reverse swing.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 24, 2022, 11:42:08 am
When a team loses 5 wickets for 4 runs is it really related to the bowling?

See here below, some of the deliveries swung from the arm and others barely get off straight!

https://youtu.be/TW1DJWNJ-uo?t=321
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 24, 2022, 11:58:27 am
The presence of reverse swing is like a pitch providing sideways movement: it unsettles the batters and forces them to change their way of doing things. Just as the arm ball can bring a batter undone on a spinning pitch, reverse swinging deliveries can bring batters undone when they play for reverse swing that doesn't happen. Not that this is what happened here as to me there was movement. It doesn't have to swing much, particularly to bring slips into play.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 24, 2022, 12:03:16 pm
I guess the bookies didnt want another draw, couple of quick phone calls to the Paki dressing room, agree on a price and make it look like it was reverse swing. More chance of Putin pulling out of Ukraine than getting an honest game of cricket on the continent...
Imran of course to busy buddying up with Vlad the invader than worrying about cricket....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 24, 2022, 12:11:46 pm
I guess the bookies didnt want another draw, couple of quick phone calls to the Paki dressing room, agree on a price and make it look like it was reverse swing. More chance of Putin pulling out of Ukraine than getting an honest game of cricket on the continent...
Imran of course to busy buddying up with Vlad the invader than worrying about cricket....
It seems we share an unbounded love for cynicism relating to continental cricket, is it justified, maybe so!

Some in the media today are pointing to the vulnerability of the Pakistanis to genuine quick bowling, but painting that perspective relies on the ignorance of the general public to the truth that Pakistan Cricket is overloaded with young tearaway quicks as a result of it having a dedicated local academy, modelled on the similar MRF Academy setup by Lillee in India, many of the young Pakistanis quicks bowl faster than Cummins or Starc. The players are exposed to them in local competitions as well as the PSL.

Really, this collapse and the one in the test before it are mystifying. Batting the opposition bowlers down to their knee stubs is Pakistan bread and butter cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 24, 2022, 12:21:19 pm
It seems we share an unbounded love for cynicism relating to continental cricket, is it justified, maybe so!

Some in the media today are pointing to the vulnerability of the Pakistanis to genuine quick bowling, but painting that perspective relies on the ignorance of the general public to the truth that Pakistan Cricket is overloaded with young tearaway quicks as a result of it having a dedicated local academy, modelled on the similar MRF Academy setup by Lillee in India, many of the young Pakistanis quicks bowl faster than Cummins or Starc. The players are exposed to them in local competitions as well as the PSL.
Agree...the Big Bash here has also fostered some young Paki quicks who have gone onto play in the Test team and there is no shortage of pace bowlers in the Paki version of the Big Bash either who bowl at good pace.
I'm just cynical of anything Pakistan and India serve up in the way of collapses, dodgy wickets, dodgy umpires etc.
Imran was all about straightening the game out at home as well as the politics when he came to power in Pakistan but quickly found out the country doesnt operate very well that way and has sold out like the previous regimes to graft and corruption.
His recent visit to see Vlad and refusal to acknowledge the aggression in Ukraine tells you where Imran's politics and moral compass is pointing these days....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 24, 2022, 12:31:06 pm
Imran was all about straightening the game out at home as well as the politics when he came to power in Pakistan but quickly found out the country doesnt operate very well that way and has sold out
Sold out or given up?

Until Pakistan education becomes widely available to both sexes and all income levels nothing will change, it's too easy for the same old same olds to hang onto their old ways, they offered boiled lollies to the starving. Even this tour the relocation of the remaining games to Lahore is a prime example. Imran doesn't even exhibit control his own backyard and cannot stop a grass roots uprising. We should all be worried and remind ourselves that Pakistan has nuclear capacity.

FWIW, I've seen similar issues in Indonesia. I'm a long long term advocate of Australia doing more and more with Indonesia, but I have no illusions about how hard that will be. However, in my opinion it's still a better long term option than China because of fundamental differences in social values between China and Indonesia.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 24, 2022, 01:02:10 pm
When a team loses 5 wickets for 4 runs is it really related to the bowling?

In this day's play?  Yep, they were beaten, all ends up
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 24, 2022, 09:51:03 pm
Excessively sporting declaration Pat,  we'd be the only country dumb enough to do this.     Again Australia makes the running only for others to cash in.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on March 24, 2022, 10:40:52 pm
Excessively sporting declaration Pat,  we'd be the only country dumb enough to do this.     Again Australia makes the running only for others to cash in.

Agree 100% ... far too early
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on March 25, 2022, 06:44:07 am
They better hope the reverse starts fairly early.  278 on a still good track is more than gettable.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 25, 2022, 07:46:04 am
Smith has probably dropped the test again, that is two in a row, they need to get him out of slips. He'll take the ones you do not expect to be taken, and drop the ones you expect nobody to miss!

I'd be slipping Green for the spinners.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 25, 2022, 05:44:41 pm
Ali was given not out by the umpire after sweeping the ball only to see it hit his pad and loop to Steve Smith. Australia called for a DRS review believing he hit it onto the pad and "snicko" had a very small heartbeat as the ball passed the bat. The weird thing was that, to my eye, there was a deflection evident in both the down-the-wicket replay and the side-on replay. None of the commentators seemed to see it, so maybe I'm seeing things. Anyway, the decision was reversed and Ali was given out, much to his annoyance.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 25, 2022, 10:39:42 pm
What a good win, and how appropriate that Cummins spreadeagled the stumps for the last wicket!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 25, 2022, 10:50:16 pm
....and the whole nation breathes a sigh of relief.   Lyon picks up a bag on the final day. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2022, 12:32:28 am
Agree 100% ... far too early
I know nothing about cricket, I heard a commentator on SEN today say that Cummins picked that time to give them enough to chase and be daring with the bat but also expecting the pitch to rough up and suit Lyon. Lyon took 5, masterstroke.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on March 26, 2022, 08:40:27 am
Pat Cummins may end up being the best Australian captain ever.  Like Ash Barty, ultra-competitive (with a smile), and a true diplomat off the ground.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 30, 2022, 08:24:14 am
I realise it's only an ODI, but Zampa is a class above our country's other leg break spin options.

How this bloke fails to get a Test gig is beyond me, he has the required accuracy and control, can lock down an end and takes wickets when the situation suits. He is basically the leg break version of Lyon and I could easily see those two bowl in tandem for extended periods and frustrate opponents, or lock down an end while Cummins, Starc or others go to work at the other end.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 30, 2022, 06:20:22 pm
Control is the key LP.   If you can't put the ball where you want it then you can't have plans.   Process goes out the window.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on March 31, 2022, 02:51:50 pm
I realise it's only an ODI, but Zampa is a class above our country's other leg break spin options.

How this bloke fails to get a Test gig is beyond me, he has the required accuracy and control, can lock down an end and takes wickets when the situation suits. He is basically the leg break version of Lyon and I could easily see those two bowl in tandem for extended periods and frustrate opponents, or lock down an end while Cummins, Starc or others go to work at the other end.

He's great in the short forms, because of his accuracy, but he doesn't have the penetration for Test cricket.  His first-class bowling average (Sheffield Shield) is 48.  He gets wickets in T20 and ODI because they go after him, but he couldn't clean up an International team on a 5th day wicket.

And besides, he would be making too much money as a gun T20 player who is sought all over the world.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 31, 2022, 10:10:22 pm
Big difference between test and short format bowling, especially spinners.   In shorter format they tend to go after you a bit more,  so batters attack balls they wouldn't normally,  so they hit a few up and create chances.   Longer format they can wait and sweat on bad balls with low scoring risk.   The batsmen don't need to force the issue.  So you need to bowl very tidily for extended periods to build pressure plus the odd jaffa to create chances against defensive-first minded players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on May 15, 2022, 08:58:07 am
Andrew Symonds - RIP  :'(   Fine player
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 15, 2022, 09:11:39 am
Andrew Symonds - RIP  :'(   Fine player
Talented striker of the ball and interesting commentator who didn't mind saying what he really thought.
Probably underachieved given his talent and a sad way for his life to end.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on May 15, 2022, 09:15:29 am
Talented striker of the ball and interesting commentator who didn't mind saying what he really thought.
Probably underachieved given his talent and a sad way for his life to end.

Part responsible for us winning a World Cup. 

EDIT - 2003 versus Pakistan ... smashed them single handedly
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 15, 2022, 02:51:40 pm
Hard to imagine these events, it's all a bit weird simply because of the rate it's all happened.

Was one of my favourites, often hard for me to understand how he didn't get more opportunities, he was our version of Chris Gayle. Even harder to understand when you see the opportunities delivered to some others!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 24, 2022, 10:30:24 am
Great to read that Maxwell is back in the test squad, I hope this is a new beginning of some common sense cricket selections, the bloke is a player who has a whole other level to most around him.

How he missed out on so much test cricket is a mystery, Maxwell not being picked is like the West Indies ignoring Viv Richards because he only makes a big innings every 2nd or 3rd test and his extreme fielding isn't really worth it!

If we would have applied the same rules years ago, Doug Walters and other similar players might never have gotten a game!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 24, 2022, 10:51:07 am
NZ v England...Poms are playing a new aggressive style under McCullum the new coach and have a new look attack which should make the Ashes more interesting.
Stokes captains like he plays and they have been too good for the reigning world champs apart from Daryl Mitchell who has been outstanding with the bat for the Kiwis. Strange dismissal in the 3rd test with Nicholls hitting the ball and striking the non strikers bat on the full and the ball rebounding to mid off where it was caught and Nicholls was out.
Re Maxwell...not for me as a test player vs quality test bowling, just too loose and unpredictable.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 24, 2022, 11:13:02 am
We will have to disagree on Maxwell, if we can justify someone like Warner at the top of the order because he can be a match winner, and the continual repeat efforts put into Marsh because he can be a match winner, it's hard to justify excluding Maxwell because he's at another level not just in batting but in the field.

Everything Warner or Marsh can do Maxwell can do, but there is stuff Maxwell does that they can't do, all we need him to do is feel at home and relax into the game and he will win test matches off his own efforts!

I don't get the criticism about Maxwell throwing his wicket away, fans make a big deal of it because of how it happens, some weirdness. But as an inconsistency it's no different to Warner poking and prodding at pies, or Marsh having a moment and lobbying a dolly to mid-off.

It's a bit like in ODI or T20 when Finch goes out LBW again, it's his gig, fans get frustrated but somehow it's worse than a knick behind or a doddle catch to forward of the wicket. The outrage seems rather arbitrary.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 24, 2022, 04:10:28 pm
We will have to disagree on Maxwell, if we can justify someone like Warner at the top of the order because he can be a match winner, and the continual repeat efforts put into Marsh because he can be a match winner, it's hard to justify excluding Maxwell because he's at another level not just in batting but in the field.

Everything Warner or Marsh can do Maxwell can do, but there is stuff Maxwell does that they can't do, all we need him to do is feel at home and relax into the game and he will win test matches off his own efforts!

I don't get the criticism about Maxwell throwing his wicket away, fans make a big deal of it because of how it happens, some weirdness. But as an inconsistency it's no different to Warner poking and prodding at pies, or Marsh having a moment and lobbying a dolly to mid-off.

It's a bit like in ODI or T20 when Finch goes out LBW again, it's his gig, fans get frustrated but somehow it's worse than a knick behind or a doddle catch to forward of the wicket. The outrage seems rather arbitrary.
Marsh isn't test material either imo, like Maxwell he will have his moments when he has a day out but for me he is still a short format player
Warner altered his game to play test cricket and learned to graft.
His poor run in England was due to excellent bowling from Broad to left handers with Tom Latham from NZ being his latest around the wicket bunny.
Warner also has a decent test average over the journey so I don't see the comparison.
Maxwell would have to displace Cameron Green at No 6 imo, I think the other positions are locks.Green is a better bowler, handy in the gully and his batting while not fantastic is on the steady improve and his ability to do a Stokes with the ball and take big wickets ie Root makes him valuable.
Maxwell is great in the field but imo isn't going to be a match saver at No 6, yes he can win games but I think No6 has to be able to both save and win games.
His off spin bowling is handy but compared to Green bowling outswingers at 145kmh I know who I would want as a change bowler on most test tracks.
Green needs to get his average up and make bigger scores but I see him as the future as that all-rounder we have struggled to produce.
Maxwell like Marsh will always be a better short format player and I don't see upside in him like I do with Green at test level
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 26, 2022, 09:16:49 am
The current situation with England's reversal of form just shows you that in sport there is no "right way."

Australia went down the dour grind pathway under Langer, relentless metronomic precision with little room for flair. England look at the same faltering situation and replace Root and Silverwood with Stokes and McCullum.

btw., The English media slammed McCullum and Stokes as a failed appointment and irresponsible risk. I find it hard to believe they still think Bayliss, Silverwood and Root were the better option!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 19, 2022, 10:57:20 pm
Test Cricket under more pressure with the new South African one day tournament set to take a month of the cricket calendar out for the year. Its hard enough squeezing tests in as it is and I was bit shocked to hear new SA Cricket Boss Graeme Smith ok with SA only playing 25-28 tests over the next 5 years.
What a surprise too that the SA franchise teams for this new tournament are all owned by IPL owners, so in short the tentacles of Indian cricket have reached over and bought out SA cricket. Smith said they need the investment to help all forms of cricket as SA cant hope to stay viable without this new comp providing funding for grassroots cricket in SA.
They couldnt get SA companies interested was Smiths reply to the question of Indian IPL owners funding the teams but said SA cricket Admin will still run the tournament...yeah right.
He did admit he sees only around 5 teams playing test cricket down the track and less test cricket being played..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 03, 2022, 05:21:00 pm
I'm not a big fan of T20, and I do not follow it closely, but see enough stats to be completely puzzled by team selection. In particular, it's got me stuffed how Starc keeps getting a gig, he's a match winner one out of every 10 or so games, but the rest of the time he's on the other side of the ledger, is his father-in-law the selector? Maybe that unfair, in reality he's dead ordinary 60% of the time, wickless 40% of games, one wicket or less 60% of games, more than 8 an over 60% of games, more than 10 an over 40% of games.

I know he is an elite talent, but the old rules still apply, you are only as good as the bloke who bowls at the other end, and in this regard Starc is almost MIA 90% of the time!

So the CA answer to this conundrum is to apparently consider dropping Cummins!

The same people that boost Starc, want Finch and Maxwell kiboshed, and I agree they are inconsistent as well, yet they are an arm and a leg ahead of Starc in terms of consistency!

It's like an episode of The Twilight Zone! :o

For me the missing ingredient is Alex Carey, I'd have had him and Wade in the squad, they could both play as batsmen outright.

I read that Pontin wants more batsmen, but that won't help when the main strike bowler goes at 10+ an over 90% of the time! Sure the averages suggest better, but that is the problem, they are averages, and a shizen two weeks with multiple loses gets made up for when he takes 5 for 10 off 3 overs to win us one game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 03, 2022, 10:06:39 pm
Amen brother.

We lost this tournament with the first three balls Starc bowled in the very first over.  We have never recovered.  When he is off he stinks and he is off far too often. He doesn't have a change of pace delivery, a major  weapon in the T20 fast bowlers kit.
Cummins has also bowled rubbish and dropped a vital catch.
The bloke who needed a run was Agar - we keep playing the same three Quicks when history has shown that changing them out, particularly from the mid point of a series works wonders


Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 04, 2022, 09:54:55 pm
They stunk today and didn't deserve to progress.  None of them get a pass mark.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 21, 2022, 03:00:07 pm
Cricket Australia has decided to change the code of conduct rules to allow David Warner to captain Australia and its probably aimed at retaining him in the short format arena where he is relied upon heavily. He has made noises about ditching test cricket and also looking at the big paying overseas short format tournaments and obviously the faltering Big Bash league want to retain him and have him captain Sydney Thunder.
A mistake IMHO to pander to this bloke who did the wrong thing, embarrassed the country, bullied the weak Smith and threw a young player in Bancroft under the bus. You have to have standards and while we know other teams have their cheats it doesnt mean we have to ignore this stuff on the basis everyone else cheats so why dont we.
We want hard tough cricketers but not cheats, what other countries do is their business and if they want to cheat then let them but we need to make it clear to young cricketers that Aus cricket isnt played that way and players who break the rules dont get allowed to captain their country...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 30, 2022, 11:05:12 pm
1st test of the summer and Aussies in control as expected, how the mighty have fallen when you look at the Windies today.
Bowling is ordinary and their batting isnt much better even though their recent test record isnt too bad especially at home.
But looking at todays action its going to be one way traffic in this two test series and maybe we should have played 5 tests vs the Saffies this summer who at least have a high class attack and will provide some competition.The reality is if its not England or the the Indians touring then its not competitive test cricket these days...and maybe I'll include NZ as well but we never seem to play them in a 4-5 test series.
 Labuschagne should get 200 plus tomorrow and Smith an easy century as well, as well as being non competitive cricket the commentary is equally uninspiring on Channel 7 and the sooner Ch 9 get the cricket back the better..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 01, 2022, 08:36:27 am
I’ve always loved test cricket but I’m finding it hard to get interested in this series.

The Windies are mediocre but the Australian team doesn’t inspire me either.  I think it’s the cumulative effects of strange selections, controversy, Langer, and sandpaper.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 01, 2022, 08:38:35 am
Don't know why we pander to Warner, he used to get away with batting like a millionaire but just blasting through the line ain't working any more.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2022, 08:55:10 am
Don't know why we pander to Warner, he used to get away with batting like a millionaire but just blasting through the line ain't working any more.
Warner is one of the boys club and getting a free ride at the minute in test cricket.
He should have retired and stuck to the short formats but wants one more crack at England to try and square up with Broad.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2022, 09:02:45 am
I’ve always loved test cricket but I’m finding it hard to get interested in this series.

The Windies are mediocre but the Australian team doesn’t inspire me either.  I think it’s the cumulative effects of strange selections, controversy, Langer, and sandpaper.
Agree..thought it was just me getting older but my interest has dropped too.
All this kiss and make up stuff with Langar pre game didn't impress me and I just find test cricket is now the poor relation to the short format stuff that makes the money and with poor crowds it's got no atmosphere.
.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 01, 2022, 01:00:41 pm
Helps to be from NSW.

Didn't Warner make a pair in the last Ashes test in Hobart?  Broad made him look like a Muppet, and it isn't the first time....I don't see how any other result is likely.  His o/s record is very ordinary, so is it reasonable to carry this bloke to whatever end point he wants?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 01, 2022, 02:37:39 pm
Helps to be from NSW.

Didn't Warner make a pair in the last Ashes test in Hobart?  Broad made him look like a Muppet, and it isn't the first time....I don't see how any other result is likely.  His o/s record is very ordinary, so is it reasonable to carry this bloke to whatever end point he wants?
They want him to captain the shorter format teams and stay in Aus to help keep the Big Bash alive so they are giving him a free ride for another 12 months in test cricket. He threatened to quit Aus and play in all the overseas big money tournaments and Cricket Aus gave in and are pandering to him.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 01, 2022, 03:57:07 pm
The political machinations of sport makes me want to spew up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 02, 2022, 02:47:53 pm
That West Indian No.3 is lucky he didn't end up another casualty.

It's got me stuffed how blokes get to Test level unable to deal with short deliveries correctly. When I was coaching juniors years ago the first thing we did with the newbies was teach them how to safely deal with short pitched bowling or rank bean balls.

You have got a helmet learn how to use it, watch Kohli, I hear Mark Taylor having a rant along those lines that coaches are responsible to ensure players are equipped to deal with game circumstances.

Oddly, I think helmets have made things worse. Years ago players hardly got hit trying to avoid the ball, usually injuries occurred from attempts to hook or pull that went wrong. On bad pitches back in the days before covers you might get injuries, but they were rare. Now almost every test you get some bloke turning his back on the pill and being hit.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 03, 2022, 08:44:56 am
Batsmen will always make errors.  Cur Khawaja's second dismissal.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 03, 2022, 09:59:03 am
Flat wickets and a over abundance of short format games will make experience vs short pitch bowling on quick wickets rare. England, India and Australia play more tests than the other nations and get the experience.
Windies don't have the quick bowlers on mass they once did and don't get the practice. They all want to play short format stuff for the money and be all-rounders bowling medium pace yorkers...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 08, 2022, 02:52:26 pm
I tend not to watch much international cricket, but I had to have a gander at the recent Eng/Pak test, what a great game.

But FMD, I've no idea how Ollie Robinson was given Man of the Match ahead of Harry Brooks who scored as total 240 runs off 180 balls in a test match. Most of our blokes can't even do that in an ODI or T20!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 08, 2022, 03:25:25 pm
I tend not to watch much international cricket, but I had to have a gander at the recent Eng/Pak test, what a great game.

But FMD, I've no idea how Ollie Robinson was given Man of the Match ahead of Harry Brooks who scored as total 240 runs off 180 balls in a test match. Most of our blokes can't even do that in an ODI or T20!
Robinson won them the game on the last day...harder taking wickets than making runs on that pitch.Another victory for Bazball....England will be hard work at home with Archer and Wood back in that team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 08, 2022, 08:57:38 pm
Should have played 5 tests vs South Africa this summer. The Windies are non competitive and look like a nation who have only entered Test Cricket 12 months ago.
Just a shame seeing them lacking that spark the great Windies teams had and Marnus is dining out on the sub standard rubbish they are serving him.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 13, 2022, 03:56:38 pm
Not a chance in hell Ollie Pope took that catch without grassing the pill, he may not have known it but the video is pretty clear he had no fingers under the ball as his gloves made contact with the ground.

It's quite bizarre as a decision, because here in Aus we've had catches denied because of blades of grass were seen coming up between fingers that were clearly under the pill.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 13, 2022, 04:13:45 pm
Not a chance in hell Ollie Pope took that catch without grassing the pill, he may not have known it but the video is pretty clear he had no fingers under the ball as his gloves made contact with the ground.

It's quite bizarre as a decision, because here in Aus we've had catches denied because of blades of grass were seen coming up between fingers that were clearly under the pill.
Batsmen getting the benefit of the doubt was the way of the past, plenty of half volley catches look doubtful  and umpires just give them out knowing they have the 3rd umpire/slow mo replays to refer to. Problem is when the 3rd umpire isnt sure either because the replay isnt conclusive and refers it back to umpires call and then the poor batsman has to go because the initial decision was out.`
The other rule that has gone out the door is the 2 bouncers per over and the interpretation of what is a bouncer.
Englands bazball bowlers including Anderson were bowling six an over at one stage in that last test but the umpires only called the extreme ones that were miles over the batsmans head.
England have also turned test cricket into one day cricket with their tactics and I dont rely enjoy watching that style of game..Pope is playing as the keeper so they can play one day player allrounders like Livingstone and Jacks. Root took the second new ball in Pakistans second innings and it might be great entertainment but its not traditional cricket and I hope we dont see that BS in the next Ashes series.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 15, 2022, 09:44:22 pm
Got some real test cricket starting on Saturday with us vs the Saffies....Sandpapergate has had a fair run in the press and been a bit of hype around the battle of the pace attacks but the real difference will be the batting and this South African team are very brittle with no one averaging much over 40.
Take Elgar out of the lineup and there isnt much left at all so while I dont expect Australia to be making 500 plus like they were vs the hapless Windies I dont expect Sth Africa to make more than 250 on a good day.
Could be a bit of a bouncer fest too with a few of the Aussies looking a bit uncomfortable vs the Windies when they bowled short and with the Saffies having some real pace with Nortje bowling at 150k supported by Rabada and the giant left armer Jansen I wouldnt be surprised if the curators take a bit of sting out of the Gabba wicket and make it a bit flatter than usual.
Big game for Warner and his sandpaper mate in Smith too, been a few media jabs thrown around in relation to Smith milking some body contact in the past series and getting Rabada suspended and the Saffies were not impressed.
I'm going 2-1 with us winning the series and Warner making runs as this will probably be his last test series in Australia imo and he will finish in England after the Ashes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 16, 2022, 11:25:20 pm
Elwood, considering the pitches they played on,  it makes sense to pick the team they did and play the way they did - it got them results. Won't be able to do that in England,  Aus,  NZ, SA because the pitches aren't roads or dry turners, bowlers aren't as strangled by the rules and the red ball lasts a bit longer.

While I didn't watch any of it,  I think it is a good thought process and innovation for the conditions.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 16, 2022, 11:46:43 pm
Elwood, considering the pitches they played on,  it makes sense to pick the team they did and play the way they did - it got them results. Won't be able to do that in England,  Aus,  NZ, SA because the pitches aren't roads or dry turners, bowlers aren't as strangled by the rules and the red ball lasts a bit longer.

While I didn't watch any of it,  I think it is a good thought process and innovation for the conditions.
Some good points Dodge and appreciate the conditions in Pakistan made winning games difficult and called for innovation. I watched England play India and NZ in England and it was  the start of Bazball and while it wasnt the extremes like bouncers every ball or One day allrounders being picked the theme was the same and that was attack at all costs and it did rattle the opposition with Englands batting playing in short format mode. I think they intend to carry on with this style into the Ashes with their batting but might adjust back to normal cricket with their regular bowling attack available. Be interesting how the Aussies handle the Saffie quicks as that might have a bearing on how England select their team and play given they will probably have Archer and Wood available ..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 17, 2022, 06:12:05 am
Agree.  Going to be tough to choose their pace attack - it's a bit better than the Devon Malcolm,  Derek Pringle days!

Bazball will get shown up - hopefully we're the ones doing it.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 17, 2022, 06:51:13 am
Just saw Sydney Thunder all out for 15.  That's not many!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 17, 2022, 05:58:29 pm
Warner's form is consistent with how the Thunder batted.  Finished a year ago.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 17, 2022, 07:38:05 pm
Just saw Sydney Thunder all out for 15.  That's not many!
That is the record for the lowest T20 score at any senior level. The next lowest was 21, by Turkey against the Czech Republic!
Truly amazing!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 17, 2022, 07:41:04 pm
Warner's form is consistent with how the Thunder batted.  Finished a year ago.
I think Warner is finished as test batsman. He's never really liked the ball moving much, but now he isn't coping.
On the other hand, he'll probably play white ball cricket for a few years yet: the ball doesn't move around so much for starters.

Who to replace him with? Now that is an interesting question! Not a lot of names stand out, particularly as some of the pitches prepared this year for Shield games have been pretty ordinaire.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 17, 2022, 09:19:29 pm
I get the feeling Warner was tolerated when he was making runs, but no runs leaves him very exposed.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 18, 2022, 12:19:54 pm
Socials suggesting Head was dudded by another umpire who fails to understand the technology.

As I understand the argument, Snicko synchronises noise spike with video. But the ball clearly clips Head's shirt, however there is only one Snicko spike which must be the contact of the ball flicking the shirt. If it had hit his gloves there should have been two Snicko spikes in the video frames shown on the replay.

It seems reasonable, there was a clear gap between Head's hand and his body, so it seems there should have been two Snicks given one is clearly the shirt.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 18, 2022, 12:52:02 pm
The problem with the Bazball style test cricket, it's not taxing at all on opposition bowlers.

Watching today, our tail suffers because blokes like Warner at the top only punish the pill if they make a ton, we are 70 runs ahead after only 50 overs the ball looks like it's 20 overs old.

The cure for Bazball is for the opposition to channel Boycott, pound the new pill into the deck around your feet for the first 20 or 30 overs then do all your scoring in the last 40 or 50 overs. Keep the opposition out there bowling even if you are scoring at a great rate. Plan to bat an innings right through the pill, not just make a quick scoreboard impact and put your feet up. Time hurts the fielding side as much as runs!

But modern openers are a bit selfish, they want to bat like it's a 20 / 20 when the ball is hard and races to the boundary, they aren't thinking about the lower order batsmen, they aren't think about the next tests in the series, it's all about now!

Past greats like Haydon and Langer, Border, Simpson would end a oppositions whole series in the first couple of days, not just by runs, they kept them out there in the sun!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 19, 2022, 07:27:03 am
Today's openers don't get the concept of "knocking the shine off" and putting overs into the bowlers.  As a side we don't do well batting time .  Then again, Warner never lasts long enough.  But on that pitch bazball was the option because you were a  walking wicket trying to bat time, as Head, Smith and Veeryn showed.  Eventually you were going to get a good one (QED Smith).
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2022, 08:53:07 am
Today's openers don't get the concept of "knocking the shine off" and putting overs into the bowlers.  As a side we don't do well batting time .  Then again, Warner never lasts long enough.  But on that pitch bazball was the option because you were a  walking wicket trying to bat time, as Head, Smith and Veeryn showed.  Eventually you were going to get a good one (QED Smith).
Aus don't play the real quicks well imho, they got lucky because the saffies batsman are very poor but in England we will get knocked over imho.
The short stuff worries our top order regardless of this pitch and when it's coming down at 150k you can see the techniques that won't hold up.
England will be doing everything they can to get Wood and Archer on the park for the Ashes series.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 19, 2022, 09:34:45 am
I heard an interesting discussion on the wireless before the start of play.  Kim Hughes asked about a South African batsman whose impeccable technique had impressed him on a previous tour.  The South African commentator said that his technique had deserted him and went on to explain that his loss of first class cricket form coincided with his rise in IPL rankings,
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 19, 2022, 09:42:57 am
I heard an interesting discussion on the wireless before the start of play.  Kim Hughes asked about a South African batsman whose impeccable technique had impressed him on a previous tour.  The South African commentator said that his technique had deserted him and went on to explain that his loss of first class cricket form coincided with his rise in IPL rankings,
The IPL has much to answer for, not the least being the fairly ordinary techniques that are now plaguing India.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 19, 2022, 09:54:06 am
Personally, I don't think the pitch was anywhere near as bad as the commentary makes out.

A lot of the commentators are looking after their mates trying the paint the pitch as abominable, when in reality it's just that it's not the flat track T20 style pitch we've become use to seeing.

I think the points highlighted by @Professer E‍ and also @DJC‍ about diminished techniques is very valid, and interestingly late yesterday Kim Hughes was making similar points on radio. He basically thought like myself that the pitch wasn't as bad as suggested, the bowling was good but not as good as some made out, and the batting was basically very poor. In particular Hughes made some very good points highlighting the apparent inability of the modern top end players to leave the pill, he said they play like they are obliged to score runs every over. That sounds to me like the influence of T20.

He mentioned stuff like batting techniques and tactics which force bowlers to change their length, turning over the strike regularly, and patience at the crease, all seem diminished.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 19, 2022, 10:16:47 am
One of the ABC commentators, a former Aussie women's cricketer I believe, played down criticism of the pitch  and gave the bowlers, from both teams, all of the credit.  She said that she didn't think any dismissals were the result of poor batting, just good bowling.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 19, 2022, 10:17:14 am
Agree 100% EB, other than Marnus our batting is technically awful and decent bowling - spin or pace - shows it up very quickly.  The art of batting has been lost - playing yourself in, batting to the flow of the game etc. 

And I agree the pitch was bowler friendly, but the batting was awful. Simply awful. If Australia had of bowled well on day one instead of tolerably SA could have been for far, far fewer.  I don't think either side played well - batting ineptitude was the main thing I took from the test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 19, 2022, 12:09:33 pm
One of the ABC commentators, a former Aussie women's cricketer I believe, played down criticism of the pitch  and gave the bowlers, from both teams, all of the credit.  She said that she didn't think any dismissals were the result of poor batting, just good bowling.
Shizen, when you go back to the replays and see some of the gaps left between bat and pad it's hard to agree with that assessment, seriously some blokes were missing pills that barely deviated by almost two stumps!

I must admit, in live action I thought the bowling was better than expected, on review the batting was awful. They were batting like the bowlers were throwing grenades at them!

Boland stated after the match that they(Aussie bowlers) thought the pitch quickened up a bit in the 2nd day, but batting got worse! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2022, 03:20:24 pm
Agree 100% EB, other than Marnus our batting is technically awful and decent bowling - spin or pace - shows it up very quickly.  The art of batting has been lost - playing yourself in, batting to the flow of the game etc. 

And I agree the pitch was bowler friendly, but the batting was awful. Simply awful. If Australia had of bowled well on day one instead of tolerably SA could have been for far, far fewer.  I don't think either side played well - batting ineptitude was the main thing I took from the test.
Agree...Marnus is probably the best technically but I thought he too looked rattled when it was quick and lifting, techniques are a long way off what they were in the eighties and it was an era dominated by quick bowling and you had to get in behind the ball, get your head in the right position and watch the ball while getting your bat out the road at times and all without the luxury of a helmet in the early part of that era.
The pitch was bowler friendly but had even bounce and the sideways movement was acceptable and not extreme.
Not sure what Elgar was on about with is unsafe criticism, no one got hit and it was his bowlers dealing out the short stuff in the main anyway. Their batting is horrible and with no one averaging over 40 in the team its not hard to figure out why they got rolled so cheaply twice and it wasnt the pitch. As you say building an innings and grinding your way through seems old school now and bazball has given an excuse for poor techniques and poor shot selection to be tolerated under the guise of entertainment.
Test cricket being turned into short format cricket doesnt do much for me and it wont be long before 5 day games become 3 day games if the present standards continue.
South Africa are planning on playing less test cricket and having their own IPL style league because they need the money which is coming from Indian IPL owners and its hard to see them being competitive in test cricket looking into the future.
Only Australia, India and England will be able to afford and provide a proper test format in terms of competitive cricket played in the traditional way and cricket purists who see test cricket as the ultimate level of the game are going to get robbed of that pleasure.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 19, 2022, 06:36:07 pm
It is almost like batsmen haven't played against a moving ball.  It would be interesting to look at historic stats (eg Siddons, Lehmann, Love days when they couldn't get a game). for a comparison in Sheffield Shield.  Season to date:

18 Games played, 64 innings - 10 wins (outright), 8 draws
7 scores above 400 - of these 5 matches have resulted in a draw

Total runs first innings - 4,649 (average team innings of 258.27) batsman average of 27.67
Total runs second innings - 3,500 - team average 194.44, batsman average 24.47

There seems to be a lot of results - maybe that is some of the issue that batting time doesn't necessarily get a result, so may as well hit out or get out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on December 19, 2022, 07:33:47 pm
"It is almost like batsmen haven't played against a moving ball" - an almost exact quote of Richie Benaud regarding the Australian team performance against Richard Hadlee in Brisbane (1985 I think).

Some of the comments about techniques are interesting - go watch some of the footage of the 1980's and you will see just as many poor players, particularly in the Australian line-up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 19, 2022, 08:40:03 pm
I wouldn't dream of stealing Richie's work - had no idea!  Yep 15 wickets for that match - not bad.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 19, 2022, 10:22:08 pm
Been a lot of undercooked wickets in the shield this year, not surprising given the very wet spring this year.  Soft wickets have been the norm at club level too.  Queensland is notorious for early season greentops, but mid December is much later than usual.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 20, 2022, 12:08:22 am
They bitch and moan about the pitch, having scored nearly 600 run between them in less than two days!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 20, 2022, 09:21:51 am
Bazball wins again Pakistan...will be a record 3-0 defeat for the Pakis at home who are about as competitive as the West Indies. Test cricket clearly not a priority  there  and that manic support they had at home isn't there either.
We are watching the sad demise of test cricket unless something changes....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 21, 2022, 12:57:01 pm
While it is quoting former top level bowlers, I have to say I agree with the general comments in this Rage Article (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/i-ve-seen-worse-bowling-greats-say-gabba-pitch-concerns-overblown-20221220-p5c7pw.html);
Quote
The mental and technical approach of batsmen who struggled in the two-day Gabba Test have been questioned by former bowling greats Jason Gillespie, Merv Hughes, Geoff Lawson and Daniel Vettori after Australia’s six-wicket win.

Gillespie, now coach of South Australia and the Adelaide Strikers, suggested most batsmen had been mentally defeated by the green colour of the pitch and the quality of the opposing pace attack before they went out to bat.
I think much of the Gabba wicket hysteria is coming from people who think T20 pitches are fair cricket.

To me that is more of a commentary about the state of test batting than the pitch!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2022, 11:57:18 am
Don't get the hype around Green.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 26, 2022, 12:04:03 pm
Don't get the hype around Green.
Agreed, bit at this stage he's just a kid in cricket terms.

He needs to start piling on the runs because he's really just a utilitarian bowler at this stage, he's not that destructive and he does tend to let the pressure out.

In my experience young bowlers either have it when they are young or they don't, I've never come across a young bowler that develops an explosive / destructive streak as they develop. They tend to develop consistency and control, not the explosive part!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 26, 2022, 03:29:23 pm
Don't get the hype around Green.
Prof...3 mill plus at the IPL based on promise more than stats, his place in the Aus short format teams isnt really cemented and at test level his batting is iffy imho, bowls at a good pace and swings the ball away well for a 5th bowler which makes him a handy package but nothing outstanding as yet other than his gully/slip fielding which is very good.
Simon ODonnell was in the press recently questioning his place at No 6, good thing for Green is there isnt another of his type pressing for that allrounder role in Aus at the minute.
@LP..I think he tends to let the pressure of when he bowls because the opposition see him as light relief after facing the other primary bowlers and tend to play a few more shots when he is bowling.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2022, 09:37:43 pm
He took five today but gees his first two spells were rubbish.  I thought it was a very poor day of test cricket, very average batting, bowling and fielding (I'm looking at you Usman).
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 26, 2022, 09:41:50 pm
Don't get the hype around Green.

Green is the all rounder we’ve been crying out for for decades.

Greg Chappell identified him as the best batting prospect in years and he can consistently bowl at over 140kph with good control … and his fielding is damn good.

Cricket Australia showed remarkable foresight to sign him up before he could be lured to footy.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 27, 2022, 08:32:17 am
As much as Green had a good day, right on queue for those of us bagging him, he needs to sustain it, and the pressure will be on now if Starc is an out.

This Saffie side has a batting line-up with more fragile peanuts in it than my Nan's peanut brittle, we should be running through them!

As much as the Saffies have a decent pace in the bowling line up, they were all over the shop with the swinging pill, and our blokes should be able to survive and thrive. You'll get the odd unplayable and a bunch of free hits in between. And that is really our complaint about Green.

I think there is no coincidence that in that 3rd or 4th spell, bowling +140kph, that Green had an impact, I begging that he repeats it for us.

Overall, this match has confirmed my resolve that T20 has a lot to answer for on the demise of cricket skills.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 27, 2022, 09:36:53 am
Marnus' catch was a ripper, but if one of my kids had played that shot in U14s they would have been spoken to.  Feet going to leg....bizarre open stances slicing across the ball... No wonder it's ended in tears.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 27, 2022, 01:07:23 pm
Prof - a kid I 'coach' in U13s asked me about his stance. He said his (private) school coach said to stand this way (open).  I just asked how he was going to get his foot across to the ball to play an offside shot and he couldn't do it.   Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 27, 2022, 01:47:48 pm
Prof - a kid I 'coach' in U13s asked me about his stance. He said his (private) school coach said to stand this way (open).  I just asked how he was going to get his foot across to the ball to play an offside shot and he couldn't do it.   Makes no sense to me.

I think it was Ricky Ponting yesterday who pointed out that the more open the stance, the less able the batsman is to use his feet.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 27, 2022, 02:13:07 pm
Greg Chappell said the same about Hilton Cartwright too.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 27, 2022, 02:17:42 pm
I spent twenty weeks this offseason watching the best batting coach in the country work with kids and his attitude towards open stances was simple; "cricket's a side on game: batting, bowling and throwing"
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 27, 2022, 03:00:47 pm
Wide stance means less ability to play further forward or further back, agree with Prof the best players are more side on and you only open your stance a bit when facing bowlers from around the wicket.
The short format game has changed how players take block and where they stand and you have more players now more open so they can deflect the ball through the onside from an off stump line. Steve Smith has profited from that technique but its gets a lot of other batsmen into trouble when the ball swings/seams away and they get squared up. That was a sin when I first learnt the game as was cutting against the spin but you see it often now from professional test players. Why would you try and cut Nathan Lyon close to the stumps through the offside when he is getting turn back in and bounce? Use your feet and hit with the spin in front of the wicket was the old method but now we have silly reverse sweeps and/or playing off the back foot looking for the easy single turning the ball through a web of leg side fielders waiting for a catch

Same with bowling, bowling closer to the umpire with a side on action gives you more natural ability to swing the ball away, Dennis Lillee regardless of new ball or old ball always could move the ball away because he had a classic side on action.
Lillee was just poetry to watch as he made his way to the wicket and was the best quick bowler I have seen play the game.
Terry Alderman was another who got close to the stumps/umpire when bowling and had that nice side on action, didnt need to be quick as he just moved the ball away from right handers independent of the conditions.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 27, 2022, 04:23:25 pm
The wide stance is a side effect of T20, baseball stances for flat bat slogs, but unless you decide to play ramp shots in Test cricket the wide stance cuts out about 25% of the playing surface.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2022, 08:50:43 am
Nortje bowls with a front on action and he goes alright 🙂
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2022, 09:16:49 am
Nortje bowls with a front on action and he goes alright 🙂
Front on is meant to be easier on your back but it won't allow you to swing the ball away. A lot of the Windies greats were front on bowlers too so being side on isnt essential I agree.
Nortje seems to do it easy too, strolls in first ball at @147k, never looks In a sweat either and was doing laps of the MCG pre game in the heat. He is consistently the quickest bowler in the world by a long way and very fit as well. Think he clocked 155k yesterday in that heat  at one stage which is scary stuff.
If he had a smarter captain who bowled him at the crunch times with good plans he would have even better results.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2022, 09:47:25 am
I believe it's based on the alignment of the hips and has nothing to do with the upper body
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2022, 10:41:07 am
Front on is meant to be easier on your back but it won't allow you to swing the ball away. A lot of the Windies greats were front on bowlers too so being side on isnt essential I agree.
Nortje seems to do it easy too, strolls in first ball at @147k, never looks In a sweat either and was doing laps of the MCG pre game in the heat. He is consistently the quickest bowler in the world by a long way and very fit as well. Think he clocked 155k yesterday in that heat  at one stage which is scary stuff.
If he had a smarter captain who bowled him at the crunch times with good plans he would have even better results.

I think that's one of the key factors EB.  South Africa has a great pace attack but they're not being given the opportunity to play to their strengths.  Rabada isn't the bowler he was but his performance seems to set the stage for his teammates.  Bringing him on first or second change, and with a plan, could get a lot more out of his bowling, particularly if Nortje and Jansen/Ngidi have knocked over an opener or two.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2022, 11:02:37 am
Looks like Elgar learned..opened with Nortje and instant results.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2022, 03:17:59 pm
How about spidercam knocking Nortje ask over t1t?

The operator has been suspended, and so he should have been.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2022, 04:28:19 pm
How about spidercam knocking Nortje ask over t1t?

The operator has been suspended, and so he should have been.
Really dangerous, that camera needs to be higher for safety.
Maybe a form of autonomous braking when getting closer to objects.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: cookie2 on December 28, 2022, 04:42:03 pm
Apparently the camera operator concerned has been stood down.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 28, 2022, 05:41:41 pm
Really dangerous, that camera needs to be higher for safety.
Maybe a form of autonomous braking when getting closer to objects.

That could have killed him if hit him in the head in the right spot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2022, 07:26:37 pm
That could have killed him if hit him in the head in the right spot.

I didn’t realise that the camera/mechanism was so large.  It would have to weigh 50-60kg and it moves at a fair clip.

After bowling like he meant it in those conditions, the last thing Nortje needed was to be assaulted by a flying camera.  It is pure luck that he wasn’t seriously injured.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2022, 07:37:57 pm
That could have killed him if hit him in the head in the right spot.
Yep...I was thinking of Phil Hughes when I saw how he got hit, I cant believe there were no safety precautions and why it
was rigged to go so low. It needs to be well above the tallest player(Jansen).
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2022, 07:40:58 pm
I didn’t realise that the camera/mechanism was so large.  It would have to weigh 50-60kg and it moves at a fair clip.

After bowling like he meant it in those conditions, the last thing Nortje needed was to be assaulted by a flying camera.  It is pure luck that he wasn’t seriously injured.
Hope that Camera has safety chains like the lighting does in professional TV studios, apart from hitting someone when running along you also wouldnt want it falling off either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2022, 08:42:33 pm
Hope that Camera has safety chains like the lighting does in professional TV studios, apart from hitting someone when running along you also wouldnt want it falling off either.

I’d love to know more about how spidercam works, and I’m sure Google could tell me.

I’m guessing here but I imagine if one of the cables came adrift, the other three would make the system safe. In other words, human error is more of a problem than the technology.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2022, 09:06:56 pm
I’d love to know more about how spidercam works, and I’m sure Google could tell me.

I’m guessing here but I imagine if one of the cables came adrift, the other three would make the system safe. In other words, human error is more of a problem than the technology.

https://www.spidercam.tv/

https://www.spidercam.tv/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/SC19-009-12_scFIELD_OverviewShort.pdf
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 29, 2022, 06:42:20 am
Yep...I was thinking of Phil Hughes when I saw how he got hit
Same thought exactly.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 04, 2023, 10:50:08 am
Weak dismissal Warner, really weak
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 04, 2023, 04:04:48 pm
Weak dismissal Warner, really weak
Horrendous 3rd umpire decision too for Marnus, that was a catch imo, given out on the field and you could see the hands cupped under the ball. We usually a get a couple of those each season and they are all given out but not this time and its the inconsistency I cant put up with.
Re: Warner.....think he has played his farewell innings in Melbourne and should retire from test cricket before the next ashes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 04, 2023, 06:10:59 pm
Yep, old man feet and couldn't GAF attitude with the bat - time to go.
I would have been annoyed to be given out to that one to slip, with the naked eye I thought it contacted the ground before being scooped up, I thought it was a fair call by the third umpire.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 05, 2023, 12:17:04 pm
Talking about blokes out of form, Maharaj can't land two in a row in the same metre of pitch.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 05, 2023, 04:27:53 pm
Talking about blokes out of form, Maharaj can't land two in a row in the same metre of pitch.
Seen him bowl well vs other teams and be a good support for the quicks but Australia is a graveyard for overseas orthodox spinners either of the left or right hand variety.
Harmer has been better but in that typical english county pro way which doesn't work out here either.
I would have played Gerald Coetzee who is a young rookie fast bowler with real pace for the experience and gone with the one spinner. Most of the Aus batsman don't like real pace and South Africas success has always been built around their pace attack over the years and that's what wins tests in Australia.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 07, 2023, 01:39:10 pm
Why not give Khawaja 5 or 10 overs to get his double ton ? It's not like the game or the series (or even in the summer) is in the balance. Cr@p decision IMO.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 07, 2023, 07:53:34 pm
Because winning the test match counts for more than a personal milestone.  One over plus a change of innings is 15 minutes or about 4 overs.  This match will come down to the wire
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 07, 2023, 09:17:50 pm
Why not give Khawaja 5 or 10 overs to get his double ton ? It's not like the game or the series (or even in the summer) is in the balance. Cr@p decision IMO.

Back in the day Bill Lawry declared with Rod Marsh eight runs short of his maiden test century.  The team outcome is always more important than individual milestones.

Apart from the one-sided contests, the decision to drop Scott Boland has meant that this test has zero interest for me.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 08, 2023, 01:01:34 am
Yet I can't help but think the declaration today would never have happened if it was say a Smith, Warner or Waugh on 195.

Lawry made a horrible mistake, and has expressed his regret about that on more than one occasion, although he admits in the moment he thought it was the right thing to do. He basically burned the future for the benefit of the now!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on January 08, 2023, 12:16:48 pm
Remember when Tubby Taylor declared overnight on 334, 1 more run would've broken bradmans record, but he couldn't afford to waste the extra time it would've taken for changeover had he chose to bat.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 08, 2023, 05:44:14 pm
Warner MOTS....WTF !?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 09, 2023, 03:26:28 pm
Warner MOTS....WTF !?!
Had to be Smith, Head or Cummins didnt it ?......think they want to keep Warner in the team for the next 12 months and not have him run off to short format money leagues.  Looked at the fixture for home tests next summer and we are playing three tests vs Pakistan and two vs the Windies, are fans really going to be bothered to come and watch two more non competitive teams get flogged every test. I would have thought New Zealand would have featured in at least one series after such a nondescript summer of rubbish test cricket, at least the Kiwis are competitive and interested in the longer format unlike most of the other teams who now pay token respect to Test cricket and want the money from the shorter formats.
Elgar wanted to say more at his presser but couldnt but clearly isnt happy with the state of the game in South Africa and how they are looking at Test Cricket in the future.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 09, 2023, 07:41:32 pm
Sth Africa cricket is rooted, just another thing that has failed to flourish with the change of management.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2023, 06:56:29 pm
Aus picking a very large squad for India including 4 spinners which is a first for me seeing us go with that many.
India will be strengthened by the return of Ravi Jadeja who is a gun player and will probably use him with Ashwin and Axar as their spinners. Handscomb as a backup batter is an interesting choice for me, been picked as he is a reputed good player of spin but everytime he comes to the wicket if he plays Id expect the likes of Bumrah, Shami and Siraj to be brought into the attack as everyone knows he shuffles back and in front of his stumps and imho he will just be target practice for the Indian quicks as a lbw candidate.
India have been off their game in recent times and a few of their players have got ahead of themselves as the rupees have been flowing in and their heads getting bigger with their rock start status. Kholi and Pant who are usually bogeyman have been out of form and they have also had to recall Pujara who looked finished a while back so I reckon we are a chance if we get the run of the toss and the Indians dont stitch us up with dodgy wickets spinning at right angles.
 A drawn series would probably be a win for us and thats my favoured result....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 13, 2023, 09:30:20 am
The Australian test squad must be one of very few teams selected on potential and/or scenario planning rather than runs on the board. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 14, 2023, 01:04:15 pm
Bumrah and Pant out of the first two tests and probably the series with injuries....India have gone with a few of their short format stars in their test squad so Id be expecting some real roads to bat on devoid of grass and favouring the spinners late in the games.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 17, 2023, 08:01:56 am
Familiar script....win toss, bat for two days in a heat wave, the pitch deteriorates rapidly from mid test and later innings are over in two sessions.  Four-nil India, because we can't bat time.

And some squeal when some grass is left on a pitch.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 09, 2023, 03:28:39 pm
How Warner keeps getting on overseas' tours beggars belief.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 09, 2023, 04:03:20 pm
Familiar script....win toss, bat for two days in a heat wave, the pitch deteriorates rapidly from mid test and later innings are over in two sessions.  Four-nil India, because we can't bat time.

And some squeal when some grass is left on a pitch.
Some of us dont mind a bit of grass on the pitch Proff.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on February 09, 2023, 04:29:12 pm
From what has been shown about this pitch in Nagpur, the thing looks incredibly suspect. The side for right handers has been watered and grassed to last, but the left hand side is already bare and breaking up. Very suspicious.
Wonder if it has anything t do with our preponderance of left handers ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 09, 2023, 06:09:56 pm
Don't have the bats or spinners to win here..
You need spinners who bowl a lot of sliders (not an effective ball in Oz so our spinners don't bowl it) and craptruck left hand batters are USELESS in India. We're playing short with this side.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 09, 2023, 08:34:03 pm
Innings and 400 run loss coming up. 

Pathetic effort this far.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 09, 2023, 09:15:47 pm
Scotty Boland will rip the heart out of the Indian team and a decent batting effort in the 2nd dig should set us up for a close fought win.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 09, 2023, 09:42:40 pm
He won't get enough support.  Too many softies from north of the Murray.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 10, 2023, 07:58:06 am
Well that was a short series, and we aren't even on the pitches yet that favour the Indians!

Dead and buried at selection ............. yet again!

PS: Can you imagine the outrage if Warner was seen handing Lyon a substance to put on his spinning finger, yet crickets about Jadeja's magic finger mix?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 10, 2023, 11:27:42 am
100%. Totally and completely illegal.  You just can't do it and he must be sanctioned.  It was so he could bowl with a newish pill, so that's getting an unfair advantage.

Where our blokes get into trouble with spinners is the straight one - Ashwin's arm ball or the slider from Jadeja.  Few of of our wickets were from balls that deviated from the line - you miss those, they're too good.  Bowl one early in the over as a set up then attack the line of the stumps.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 10, 2023, 01:14:16 pm
100%. Totally and completely illegal.  You just can't do it and he must be sanctioned.  It was so he could bowl with a newish pill, so that's getting an unfair advantage.
Jadeja is claiming he has a sore finger, but if I recall correctly just recently Lyon and Starc were required by match referees to remove dressings and other coatings from their fingers before bowling, so much so Starc was forced to carry a towel to soak up blood dripping from his finger.

Dodgy wicket preparation, dodgy bowling tactics, piss-weak response from officials, this is how money corrupts!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 10, 2023, 03:44:52 pm
Damn straight.  If he was playing grade cricket over here he'd be watching for the next month, they're red hot on this kind of stuff. 

It might not be as extreme as sandpaper, but its still not on and it is so f*****g typical of p-weak officials on stuff like this.  But if an Australian did it....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 10, 2023, 04:37:13 pm
Could Australia's fortunes be turning? Murphy has 3
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 12, 2023, 07:47:15 am
It will be four nil, as predicted.  No lessons have been learnt and this result will finish careers.  Sure, they were hamstrung by injuries but it was the most clueless set of selections I've ever seen.  I'm looking at you George.   Only four bowlers and no Head.

The players looked horribly underprepared - why do they constantly get beaten on the inside when batting?  WHY!?!

Khawaja cannot play off spin, period. That's the issue Langer brought up with him and why he spent years in the wilderness.
Warner is finished.  F-i-n-i-s-h-e-d for those who don't get it.  Brings nothing.
Boland can't take wickets on that kind of pitch, doesn't get movement through the air.  The dropped catch was awful.  Not disgraceful but not right for these decks.
Renshaw.....Aaaaargh.  And injured.  Lucky not to be on a plane.

And let's not forget Mr Cummins.  First real test for him and he didn't lead.  And needs to rediscover how to bat.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 12, 2023, 11:21:26 am
Boland can't take wickets on that kind of pitch, doesn't get movement through the air.  The dropped catch was awful.  Not disgraceful but not right for these decks.
The dropped catch was ordinary, the NSWelshmen will hang Boland high for that one to cover up the other dropped catches by Smith, Labuschagne and Khawaja.

But in regards to Boland and bowling in India, let's not forget they had already put down two certain(90/10) chances off his bowling and another one that probably should have been been 60/40 but they didn't even get a hand to it. He actually generated more chances than Cummins! ;)

Add those drops to the ones of Murphy and they cost Australia about 200 runs! Catching close in can be tough in Inda, the ball stays low, Smith has a flaw in his technique he keeps standing up. It's great in Australia because he can dive left and right and take the spectacular catches on pitches where the ball carries 40m, but in India where the ball comes to at ankle height 10m from the stumps his technique is a problem, a huge negative.

But the catching that isn't the big problem, the big problem is the batting is not technically sound for Indian conditions. They needed guys with sound basic defence who can and will sweep from ball one, and they hand none!

It almost looked to me like the players don't care about India, and they are tuning up BazBall style batting for The Ashes!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:13:45 pm
F-me, stand up and applaud, AUS 0-50
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:15:46 pm
And as I say that, Warner gone for 15 ! Im a curse.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on February 17, 2023, 04:16:24 pm
F-me just turned it on in time to see Warner go out! Switching TV off.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 17, 2023, 04:41:02 pm
More Bazball, this could be a two day test!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:49:31 pm
Make that 2-91
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 17, 2023, 04:51:22 pm
Seems to be a rule whereby if we get hit on the pad, it's LB.  First one (rightfully overturned) had so much wood in it it was almost a cover drive.

Game over.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:51:31 pm
3-91 Smith Duck
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:53:00 pm
I watched Smith approach the crease and he was all fidgety and carrying on like it it was hit and giggle. I thought to myself this bloke won't last long. Next ball...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:53:47 pm
4-91 Uzy LBW
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:54:13 pm
Uzy called for a review, looks high
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:55:26 pm
4-91 Head Golden Duck
Apolgies its Uzy not Head, not out anyway.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 04:58:27 pm
Yayyy, a half century by an Aussie, well done Uzy.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 17, 2023, 05:02:50 pm
LB overturned, another poor on-field decision.  Pitched outside leg.  Smarten up Muppets.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 17, 2023, 05:03:34 pm
Did Ashwin try his classy Mankad act again?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 06:38:43 pm
Warner Marnus Smith Head = 45 runs. Deplorable.
I dont want to mozz him but Uzy looks headed for a ton.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 07:02:13 pm
I dont want to mozz him but Uzy looks headed for a ton.
Ooops!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 17, 2023, 08:31:20 pm
I’m not paying as much attention as I should but have we gone in with only four bowlers?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 17, 2023, 08:35:40 pm
Warner Marnus Smith Head = 45 runs. Deplorable.
I dont want to mozz him but Uzy looks headed for a ton.
Warner Marnus Smith Head Carey Murphy = 45 runs. Deplorable.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 17, 2023, 09:25:37 pm
Tough to win in India, doctored pitches, umpires under pressure due to the Indian crowds and the fact they now control world cricket due to the coin they throw at the game in all formats.
Throw in the fact they are a good team with a massive cricket infrastructure churning out players all waiting keenly to make it at international level and share in the spoils and it takes a very good innovative cricket team to beat them.
Our key weapons which are our pace bowlers are injured in the main and also are rendered more docile on their wickets, our spinners are not really at their level due to lack of exposure in our domestic game where we struggle to produce spinner friendly wickets and its very hard for the average Aus team to compete given we dont have quality like Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath etc who can overcome the other barriers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 17, 2023, 10:03:51 pm
Pretty good knock from Handscomb but, as Bill Lawry would say, “He’s a Victorian!”

Bad luck the selectors couldn’t fit more Victorians into the eleven.

Seriously though, what’s the story with one fast bowler and three spinners?  Green would be handy as would Boland stifling the scoring.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 18, 2023, 07:00:42 am
Pretty good knock from Handscomb but, as Bill Lawry would say, “He’s a Victorian!”

Bad luck the selectors couldn’t fit more Victorians into the eleven.

Seriously though, what’s the story with one fast bowler and three spinners?  Green would be handy as would Boland stifling the scoring.
Ill show my lack of knowledge here but they showed the pitch with decent cracks in it before the start of the game. If Hazlewood and Starc were fit surely their express bowling would have caused chaos on that pitch? Could Boland have done some damage on it? Their quick got the most wickets, the two spinners shared the rest. The young fella Murphy will be under immense pressure to back up his first test performance. Then again the majority of our batsmen just can't put scores on the board.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 18, 2023, 04:11:26 pm
Ill show my lack of knowledge here but they showed the pitch with decent cracks in it before the start of the game.
Australia bat first, and magically those cracks seem to have closed up by day two. ;D

If you want to see Aussie cricket politics at work, watch today and ask yourself how can it be the bloke who got 7 wickets last test hasn't been bowled yet, it's like a puzzle wrapped in an enigma. Maybe Murphy is a coal miner! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: bricky on February 19, 2023, 04:43:15 pm
1-61 to all out for 113 including 4-0, bloody hell
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 19, 2023, 05:04:10 pm
1-61 to all out for 113 including 4-0, bloody hell

Batting is obviously difficult but what's with the sweep shots?  Cummins had clearly decided to sweep before the ball was bowled and that at a time when protecting wickets was paramount.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2023, 06:17:58 pm
Batting is obviously difficult but what's with the sweep shots?  Cummins had clearly decided to sweep before the ball was bowled and that at a time when protecting wickets was paramount.
The sweep shots are fine, and in fact very useful when conditions suit in India, but doing it mindlessly is the problem.

Some real naivety on display, not good enough from Smith, Cummins or other experienced players!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 19, 2023, 06:50:56 pm
Very lazy batting, no thought put into the shots whatsoever, Smith in particular.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 19, 2023, 07:16:38 pm
The sweep shots are fine, and in fact very useful when conditions suit in India, but doing it mindlessly is the problem.

Some real naivety on display, not good enough from Smith, Cummins or or other experienced players!

Sweep shots aren’t fine in those conditions.  Smith’s demise should have convinced the following batters to park the sweep shot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on February 19, 2023, 10:51:59 pm
Sweep shots aren’t fine in those conditions.  Smith’s demise should have convinced the following batters to park the sweep shot.

I haven’t seen todays play, but that’s not now todays players are coached/or play.
They are taught and encouraged to go, you fail and you go again.
It is what it is, we can sit here and grumble that they don’t value their wicket and play poor shots but they go out to score or get out so that someone else has time to score (or go out…)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 20, 2023, 06:38:14 am
The sweep shots are fine, and in fact very useful when conditions suit in India, but doing it mindlessly is the problem.

Some real naivety on display, not good enough from Smith, Cummins or other experienced players!
from the HS

“There’s a reason why many of India’s leading batsmen don’t bother with the sweep shot … they reckon it tastes like honey but drips with poison.

C lever though it looks, disruptive though it can be, they will tell you it generates more problems than it’s worth and if you question them further they explain it is a simple matter of geometry

If a deck is playing up and down (like Delhi) you can take variable bounce out of play with a vertical bat but if the bounce varies and you use a cross bat such as the sweep you tend to miss the ball.

Then guess what? You’re dead

Sounds simple but somehow Australia missed the memo.

A quarter of Australia’s wickets in this series have fallen to the sweep, the shot which produced the craziest Australian collapse this century as batsmen lost their collective nerve, swung wildly and left with faces redder than your standard tandoori chicken.

What a shambles.”
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 20, 2023, 08:56:35 am
I reckon Cummins will quit as captain, go home or be replaced by the end of this tour.  Something isn't right and his thought processes appear erratic. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 20, 2023, 09:27:41 am
I reckon Cummins will quit as captain, go home or be replaced by the end of this tour.  Something isn't right and his thought processes appear erratic. 
Going to get smashed in England, we are trying to play Bazball cricket and need to get back to basics and start again.
I'd sack George Bailey for starters......and then work my way down with Warner next to go and would replace Cummins as captain. Don't know why you would fly a uncapped left arm spinner in when you have Agar already in the squad either..Agar must be there to drive the bus.
Agree on Cummins, that's why you don't make bowlers captain.
Going in with one quick bowler, wtf were we thinking.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 20, 2023, 10:31:22 am
Richie Benaud says hi EB 🙂

Cummins just doesn’t seem to have a tactical grasp of the game … but how much of that is his role with the current set up?

We desperately needed Green to get up for that test.  He wouldn’t have weakened the batting and his bowling could have made a difference … at least it could have provided a point of difference.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 20, 2023, 11:34:17 am
Richie Benaud says hi EB 🙂

Cummins just doesn’t seem to have a tactical grasp of the game … but how much of that is his role with the current set up?

We desperately needed Green to get up for that test.  He wouldn’t have weakened the batting and his bowling could have made a difference … at least it could have provided a point of difference.
Game has moved on a bit since Richie's days and he was more of a one off(Warne was one who might have been ok), Greens bowling was missed, not sure his batting would have prospered on the dodgy Indian wickets vs that quality spin but it couldnt have been any worse than Renshaw.
Cummins DRS work has also been horrendous and we squander too many referrals on no chance attempts.
South Africa have just trashed their poor performing test team from the Aus tour replacing Captain Edgar and sacking 5 players so no mercy shown there and we need to do a bit of that too.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 20, 2023, 11:37:09 am
I reckon Cummins will quit as captain, go home or be replaced by the end of this tour.  Something isn't right and his thought processes appear erratic.
Just speculating, but this sort of shock can set in whenever the Nimby generation get exposed to life in the real Mumbai!

Some think India is all like Goa, colourfully dressed gardeners, palms swaying in the breeze, incense parades and tasty vegetarian curries. The problem is before this most have only been exposed the IPL T20 India, glitz and tinsel,  more Hollywood and Bollywood, receptions for heroes. Then in a test series they are the enemy, they get the raw Mumbai and reality sets in, beggars, poverty and smog, smog like you have never seen before, enough to turn you green, and open sewerage flowing down side streets, it can be a bit overwhelming for them. ( On a bad day Melbourne smog(ignoring bushfires) might rate a 20ppm, on average a 10ppm, on a good day Mumbai is 200ppm on average it's 250ppm! (It's like living in a mechanics workshop with all the truck engines running!)

Cummins green mentality just became irrelevant as he was exposed to the real problem, his high and mighty Nimby stance was squashed by global monolith! (FWIW, this is much the same in regions of China, Indonesia and SE Asia when you get away from tourist type destinations and into the industrial / manufacturing areas.)

I've seen this happen to people I travel with so many times, all up beat and buzzing ready to go, then ................! :o Cummins is not alone on this tour I can see several like that, you need a certain stoicism that goes way beyond physical capabilities, Alan Border and Dean Jones had it in spades.

As much as I personally love travelling to India and catching up with many of it's people, it's probably one place I would never take the family.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 20, 2023, 01:52:56 pm
Call me Nostradamus
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 03:42:23 pm
Dead rubber but India 3-36
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 03:54:32 pm
4-44, reviewed, given not out, next ball, caught, out, 4-44
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 01, 2023, 03:56:40 pm
There won’t be a case of Jadeja-vu this time.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 03:58:26 pm
5-45 review pending
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 03:59:07 pm
Ta ta 5-45
Kuhnemann 3 Lyon 2
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 04:40:09 pm
Murphy strikes 6-70 (Kohli)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 04:54:58 pm
7-82 Lyon for his 3rd
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 04:55:49 pm
Not fancying the Aussies batting chances on this pitch, if the Indians are struggling, what hope is there?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 01, 2023, 05:36:51 pm
Just shows that the Indians have so much money that they don’t have to bother about getting Tests into the last day. If a Boxing Day Test finishes on Day 3, that’s a financial disaster for Cricket Australia.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 01, 2023, 05:52:02 pm
India have won the Border/Gavasker trophy and dont give a flying feck about the series now, players will get their bonus and then its onto the IPL later down the track and more rupees.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 05:53:39 pm
8-88 Kuhnemann
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 05:54:18 pm
India have won the Border/Gavasker trophy and dont give a flying feck about the series now, players will get their bonus and then its onto the IPL later down the track and more rupees.
Or, the Aussie players dont think much of Cummins?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 01, 2023, 05:59:25 pm
Or, the Aussie players dont think much of Cummins?
Think all the off field stuff with Langar, the sponsorship BS he dug his heels in about has done for him, not a happy dressing room imo and Smith will probably get the captains gig for the Ashes.
Reckon that tour will probably end a few careers if it all goes to hell in a handbasket.....
re: India's pitch preparation is a disgrace and should be subject to a ICC review......they get away with these dodgy wickets every series and this pitch is no exception  to the others we have played on this series. Great to see then suffer this innings but its fecked the series and their control over the ICC is criminal in how they manipulate cricket in terms of fixtures, pitches, umpiring etc.
We will probably get bowled out for peanuts as well and the ICC need to grow some gonads and challenge these cheats........every team should just pick 10 left arm orthodox spinners and a keeper its such a farce...



Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 06:28:25 pm
All out for 109, wow!
Aussies 0-6
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 06:32:31 pm
1-12 Head lbw
India adopting the just bowl at the stumps, Aussie batsmen will do the rest.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 01, 2023, 06:34:43 pm
Just noticed a Monash Uni sign on the electronic fence advertising, do they have a campus in India?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 01, 2023, 07:04:47 pm
Just noticed a Monash Uni sign on the electronic fence advertising, do they have a campus in India?

Malaysia, China, Italy, Indonesia and India.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 01, 2023, 08:07:30 pm
The Indians bowled too short.  It will be interesting to see whether they correct that after tea.  If not, we should build a handy lead.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 02, 2023, 10:04:43 am
Indian batting was dodgy....running at Kuhnemann, wtf!?! Chuck in cooked pitches and dodgy umpiring, nothing ever changes.

And they had the temerity to try to cook it over here, wouldn't play an early season game at the Gabba and avoided the WaCA.

Too much influence and it can only be good for cricket if this comes back to bite them.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 02, 2023, 04:27:48 pm
Aussies dropping like flies in the space of 3-4 overs. 8-196
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 02, 2023, 05:30:16 pm
Aussies dropping like flies in the space of 3-4 overs. 8-196
These pitches are a disgrace, the other test nations need to get together and do something about India and
the outrageous advantages they create for themselves at home.
If we produced corrugated green tops at home everytime India toured you would never hear the end of it and they would probably go home....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 02, 2023, 06:30:22 pm
Good.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 02, 2023, 09:14:06 pm
These pitches are a disgrace, the other test nations need to get together and do something about India and
the outrageous advantages they create for themselves at home.
If we produced corrugated green tops at home everytime India toured you would never hear the end of it and they would probably go home....
EB educate me, was that collapse the pitch? If so how? I was watching and Green and Handscomb were looking solid. They looked like they were digging in and were selecting the right balls to score off. Then all of a sudden it was like dominos. If I'm correct did India bring on a quick and it all changed?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 02, 2023, 09:53:41 pm
Interesting new tactic which is obviously only relevant when the keeper is keeping up at the stumps when the spinners are bowling. If the keeper thinks the batsman nicked a catch to him or was trapped LBW, take off the bails and claim a stumping. The umpire at square leg will send it upstairs if the batsman was playing forward to check if the back foot lifted. Then on the review, they check firstly for caught behind or LBW before checking for the stumping. Even if the eventual decision is not out, the fielding side doesn’t lose a challenge. Of course, if the umpire at square leg turns down the appeal for stumping without sending it upstairs, the fielding captain can challenge.

Not a bad little lurk. If I were a Test cricket coach, I’d be telling my keeper he has to take the bails if there’s any chance of an LBW or caught behind and appeal even if there’s no doubt the batsman kept his foot behind the line.

I would have thought the 3rd umpire should only decide the stumping. If there was no stumping, he should tell the square leg umpire to say not out. But if the batsman was stumped and it wasn’t a no ball then check for caught or LBW as they would take precedence.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 02, 2023, 09:54:09 pm
EB educate me, was that collapse the pitch? If so how? I was watching and Green and Handscomb were looking solid. They looked like they were digging in and were selecting the right balls to score off. Then all of a sudden it was like dominos. If I'm correct did India bring on a quick and it all changed?
Umesh came on and got three wickets which were lbw's and bowled where the ball kept low imo, yes the batting has been inept but this wicket has been the worst of the three so far . India have failed again in the 2nd innings with Lyon taking five wickets......India's batting has been cavalier and loose probably because they dont give a feck having secured the trophy but Lyon has been helped by the wicket turning abruptly and so early in the match.
Sharma has called for the 4th test to be a green top so India can practice for the test cricket final????? so they really dont care about results now and are just using us for practice.
Curators should be preparing what is the best wicket they can, not being told by the home team captain what to do to suit his teams upcoming agenda. India do this every home series and create an over whelming advantage and thats my problem with them.
The ICC are manipulated by India being the money machine of world cricket and its ruining the game....test cricket is on the way out thanks to India and no one will take it seriously with pitches and score lines like we are seeing.
Its funny how the IPL wickets are TV postcard perfect flat wickets with just a hint of a green......so its not lack of quality curators, weather or equipment, just pure intent to create a unfair advantage in the test matches.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 02, 2023, 09:57:52 pm
Interesting new tactic which is obviously only relevant when the keeper is keeping up at the stumps when the spinners are bowling. If the keeper thinks the batsman nicked a catch to him or was trapped LBW, take off the bails and claim a stumping. The umpire at square leg will send it upstairs if the batsman was playing forward to check if the back foot lifted. Then on the review, they check firstly for caught behind or LBW before checking for the stumping. Even if the eventual decision is not out, the fielding side doesn’t lose a challenge. Of course, if the umpire at square leg turns down the appeal for stumping without sending it upstairs, the fielding captain can challenge.

Not a bad little lurk. If I were a Test cricket coach, I’d be telling my keeper he has to take the bails if there’s any chance of an LBW or caught behind and appeal even if there’s no doubt the batsman kept his foot behind the line.

I would have thought the 3rd umpire should only decide the stumping. If there was no stumping, he should tell the square leg umpire to say not out. But if the batsman was stumped and it wasn’t a no ball then check for caught or LBW as they would take precedence.
Yep its a loophole in the referral system and the smart captains and keepers use it well...New Zealand are very good with Tom Blundell their keeper always taking the bails off and making ridiculous appeals to get it sent via the umpies for review.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 02, 2023, 10:32:47 pm
76 to get for the win, will be interesting.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on March 02, 2023, 10:46:16 pm
It will be a tiight finish.

Meanwhile in South Africa, SA made 342 first innings.  The next 25 wickets have fallen for 361.  (I don't care, just an observation!)

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 02, 2023, 11:19:00 pm
It will be a tiight finish.

Meanwhile in South Africa, SA made 342 first innings.  The next 25 wickets have fallen for 361.  (I don't care, just an observation!)


Been watching a bit of the SA/Windies game, Saffies are tougher at home with that pace attack and both teams have rubbish batting lineups so Im not surprised to see the wickets tumbling. Its a shame South Africa have prioritized the shorter formats for the future and are playing less test cricket as they have a lot of talent in their domestic comp and kids coming through.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 03, 2023, 09:44:55 am
EB educate me, was that collapse the pitch? If so how? I was watching and Green and Handscomb were looking solid. They looked like they were digging in and were selecting the right balls to score off. Then all of a sudden it was like dominos. If I'm correct did India bring on a quick and it all changed?

Ravi Shastri provided an interesting insight on the first day.  He said that batsmen need to focus on protecting their wicket for 20 minutes.  If they can do that, they will know what the ball/pitch is doing and should be able to build a score. Shastri is well qualified to talk about batting on crappy pitches.

Presumably, the process would have to start again if the attack changes from spin to pace.

Our batsmen seem unable to face an over without playing a rash shot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 03, 2023, 10:08:23 am
Shastri is a lot of the problem.  On one hand plays the mediator and statesman, while the other hand is doing what behind the scenes?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 03, 2023, 10:14:29 am
It would be hard for the Aussies to avoid the mistake of playing not to lose rather than pursuing victory. If they fail to get just 78 runs, it will be one of the most catastrophic losses suffered by any team and they’ll be mocked mercilessly, especially after they lost the 2nd Test after a monumental batting collapse following the Indian tail wagging proudly.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 10:32:53 am
It would be hard for the Aussies to avoid the mistake of playing not to lose rather than pursuing victory. If they fail to get just 78 runs, it will be one of the most catastrophic losses suffered by any team and they’ll be mocked mercilessly, especially after they lost the 2nd Test after a monumental batting collapse following the Indian tail wagging proudly.
Cant lose from here surely.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 03, 2023, 10:45:45 am
Losing 6/11 suggests they can.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 03, 2023, 10:51:05 am
If the Indians win, it would be just as iconic as the time Warnie skittled the Poms when they were set a small target to win.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 03:02:16 pm
1-0 Uzy gone 2nd ball
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 03, 2023, 03:15:49 pm
F**K off  Shastri, enough excuses.  "It's too dry".  It's too dry because that's what they were told to do.They were able to water the centre of the pitch and forget to water the ends?  Spare us the BS.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 03:15:59 pm
I have never watched a game before where I thought every ball is going to be a wicket. Aussies look nervous, Indians are on.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mav on March 03, 2023, 03:25:40 pm
Imagine US baseball fans watching this. They wouldn’t get it at all!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 03, 2023, 03:33:28 pm
Grow a pair umpires and pull Ashwin up for frivolous appealing, it got boring a long time ago.  Can't wait for him to get frustrated and try his Mankad schtick
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 03:58:01 pm
Ball's farked, storm weathered, Aussies will win.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 04:10:59 pm
Ball's farked, storm weathered, Aussies will win.
Oh, and piss Cummins off as captain. Smith is the man.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 03, 2023, 04:19:07 pm
Well, that was a lot easier than I expected!

Excellent batting from Head and Lambuschagne.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 04:27:49 pm
Shame the Aussies did show that kind of fight in the 2nd test when they were in it up to their ears. The trophy may be lost but the series can be drawn.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 03, 2023, 04:47:46 pm
Shame the Aussies did show that kind of fight in the 2nd test when they were in it up to their ears. The trophy may be lost but the series can be drawn.
Reckon the Indians cleaned up with the bookies on this one.....not much effort on their behalf imho.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 03, 2023, 07:54:08 pm
100% EB, when Sharma ran at Kuhnemann in the first dig my suss meter gave a ping.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 03, 2023, 08:35:13 pm
Reckon the Indians cleaned up with the bookies on this one.....not much effort on their behalf imho.

You make me laugh EB  :)

The pitch doctoring backfired and we somehow managed to select our best 11 players for the conditions.

There's probably more chance of our selectors cleaning up the bookies by leaving Travis Head out of the team at the start of the series.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 03, 2023, 08:47:56 pm
You make me laugh EB  :)

The pitch doctoring backfired and we somehow managed to select our best 11 players for the conditions.

There's probably more chance of our selectors cleaning up the bookies by leaving Travis Head out of the team at the start of the series.
2-1 and series lost...not much to laugh about, this test was a farce...
India bats charging down the wicket at our spinners in the 1st dig and batting like millionaires...thats cricket how Pakistan play the game when they are on the take...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 03, 2023, 10:30:18 pm
Great interview with Smith after the game on SEN. He oozes leadership. Talked about how he said to the bowlers something along the lines of "Ill throw you around a fair bit, you won't like it or agree with me but just trust me. It's not that I think you are doing a bad job, it will be because I think in that moment someone can do it better".
Always ticking away that fella.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 03, 2023, 10:36:25 pm
Great interview with Smith after the game on SEN. He oozes leadership. Talked about how he said to the bowlers something along the lines of "Ill throw you around a fair bit, you won't like it or agree with me but just trust me. It's not that I think you are doing a bad job, it will be because I think in that moment someone can do it better".
Always ticking away that fella.
Not a huge fan of Smith the captain but the alternatives are in short supply, just hoping he can bat like he did last ashes series and put an end to this Bazball BS..sick of hearing about it.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 05, 2023, 12:16:28 pm
2-1 and series lost...not much to laugh about, this test was a farce...
India bats charging down the wicket at our spinners in the 1st dig and batting like millionaires...thats cricket how Pakistan play the game when they are on the take...

And if Head hadn't got slightest touch with the toe of his bat, he's out cheaply and we would most likely have lost.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 08, 2023, 03:31:32 pm
So let me get this right, the BCCI gets caught out fiddling the pitches in the lead up to the first three tests, and despite being caught on video with the shovels and rollers, the BCCI solution is to fiddle three pitches to keep the opposition guessing!

So they are embarrassed at all by being caught out, so rather than amend their ways they go to a whole new level and fiddle three pitches, they've made a Matryoshka of pitches so only the BCCI know which one will be used in the lead-up to the test and as such only India can properly prepare. It's a bit like a grifter adding further layers of complexity when the victims have worked out they have been conned!

They may as well prepare the whole venue play surface and just paint the lines wherever it suits on the day the teams are announced, why even bother with north south! ;D

Is this ultimately why Trump and Putin are bad for the planet, people and countries no longer care, integrity doesn't matter?

I suppose next time India tour we can supply Lunch and Tea, three free choices, Eye Fillet, Beef Bolognese and Steak Tartare! Perhaps for the Brisbane test we have a northern primary producer ritually slaughter a cow on the pitch as part of the opening smoking ceremony, Apocalypse Cow! It makes me wonder, do we use blood and bone on Australian playing fields?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 09, 2023, 12:55:39 pm
I can't be bothered anymore LP, just another example of a crooked, morally bankrupt outfit with far too much power and influence.  Welcome to modern civilization.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 10, 2023, 11:39:01 am
I wouldn't be over excited about day one....we did ok but this is the kind of pitch we do badly on because we don't bat long enough. We need to post a minimum of 400 before the pitch deteriorates - if it will.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 10, 2023, 12:27:14 pm
The Gabba was given a below average rating for the Test against South Africa and received on demerit point as a result.  Another four demerit points over the next four years would see the Gabba banned as a Test venue for 12 months.

What ratings have the Indian pitches been given and how many demerit points have they racked up?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 10, 2023, 12:31:45 pm
I wouldn't be over excited about day one....we did ok but this is the kind of pitch we do badly on because we don't bat long enough. We need to post a minimum of 400 before the pitch deteriorates - if it will.

There's not a lot of runs among those still to bat.  Ussy and Green need to make big scores.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 10, 2023, 12:55:34 pm
I wouldn't be over excited about day one....we did ok but this is the kind of pitch we do badly on because we don't bat long enough. We need to post a minimum of 400 before the pitch deteriorates - if it will.
Indians are in practice mode for the test championship, this wicket might hold up a bit better than the rubbish they produced for the other tests.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 10, 2023, 01:35:25 pm
Indians are in practice mode for the test championship, this wicket might hold up a bit better than the rubbish they produced for the other tests.
Who hosts the final, where and when?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 10, 2023, 01:38:14 pm
That drop by the keeper, fair dinkum at test level you have got to be joking, it's like Riewoldt's goal fail!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 10, 2023, 02:16:24 pm
That drop by the keeper, fair dinkum at test level you have got to be joking, it's like Riewoldt's goal fail!
This wicket has a bit more pace and the ball jumped a bit but it should been taken, of course the regular Indian keeper and well known Aussie nemesis Rishabh Pant hasnt played this series after his car accident where he was speeding in his Merc and managed to hit a road divider with such impact the car burst into flames and he nearly didnt make it out.
Of course Pant has a history of speeding fines all unpaid but such is the Indian Police system they claimed he wasnt drunk or speeding on this occasion and did not exceed 80km, reckon it might have  helped he is a cricketer with a rockstar profile and not driving a three wheel tuk tuk for a living?
Wonder what the three point swastika carmaker think of their expensive SUV ending up being BBQed beyond recognition in such a supposed low speed impact crash.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 10, 2023, 08:34:20 pm
Excellent effort from Ussy and Green.  Hopefully Green will bowl with confidence after his ton.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 10, 2023, 10:15:00 pm
Lyon and Murphy did OK with the bat too. 

Despite some cheap wickets, the change from bowler friendly to batter friendly pitches is astounding.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 10, 2023, 10:30:02 pm
Lyon and Murphy did OK with the bat too. 

Despite some cheap wickets, the change from bowler friendly to batter friendly pitches is astounding.
Not when you think about where we are playing and who the opposition is.
The IPL never seem to have any trouble with their prepared pitches.
The whole series has been farcical in terms of pitch preparation and the ICC need to step in and make it clear India will be docked test championship points if they continue to prepare substandard spin nightmare pitches .
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 12, 2023, 08:29:40 pm
Just do not get why Smith wants to be slipping to spinners, I get he takes spectacular diving catches, but his technique is rubbish, he moves too much which makes him too likely to drop catches he should take. He'll get the seemingly impossible, and drop puddings!

btw., Watching Kuhnemann makes me think, imagine if old timers like myself could back in the day chuck the pill like modern bowlers?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 18, 2023, 01:37:54 pm
Looks like Bazball is on for The Ashes with Warner set to get another gig! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 18, 2023, 01:44:54 pm
No way, seriously no way
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 18, 2023, 01:47:11 pm
No way, seriously no way
That is what I'm hearing, Warner is in the squad.

We've a bunch of talented kids around the country that should be getting an early Ashes run, one of them will be very unlucky to miss out!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 18, 2023, 02:01:22 pm
I refuse to believe this, surely there a mistake...

It's an opinion grab from Mark Taylor, but given that he's a mouthpiece of cricket NSW you'd think that this is going to happen, no matter how implausible it seems.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 18, 2023, 03:57:11 pm
England are doing an India and Stokes has asked for bazball pitches which will be one day like..ie flat with enough pace to suit the batsmen but docile for any decent movement or spin.
Its going to be one day cricket which is their forte and lifeless batting tracks where they will go the bash with the bat and then resort to their ridiculous field placings and bowling patterns ie what went on in Pakistan with the likes of Anderson bowling six short deliveries an over with packed leg side fields.
The ICC need to set firm guidelines for test cricket pitch preparation and have all wickets presented in a condition which allows for normal test cricket not contrived wickets to suit the home team.
Its fecks up the game and makes a joke of the traditional format....Warner might actually make some runs on this tour.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 19, 2023, 09:40:34 am
The "friends of Warner" society is out and pushing the sell today.  If, as numbers and history suggest, this bloke fails, the lot of them should follow him out the door. The entire situation is awkward and makes me cringe.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 19, 2023, 05:03:46 pm
Pat Cummins
Scott Boland
Alex Carey
Cameron Green
Marcus Harris
Josh Hazlewood
Travis Head
Josh Inglis
Usman Khawaja
Marnus Labuschagne
Nathan Lyon
Mitchell Marsh
Todd Murphy
Matthew Renshaw
Steve Smith
Mitchell Starc
David Warner
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 19, 2023, 06:02:44 pm
I didn't know Candice was a selector.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 19, 2023, 06:10:58 pm
I didn't know Candice was a selector.
Lot of love for Davey, and we love our Marsh bros too. Not sure how Harris got another go either...or Renshaw.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 19, 2023, 06:18:45 pm
The Marsh selection is bewildering.  Been injured and isn't a test players A-hole.   Hazelwood could consider himself lucky too, but at least he's a non quantity at the standard.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 19, 2023, 06:19:15 pm
Neser is bloody unlucky as well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 19, 2023, 06:29:03 pm
The Marsh selection is bewildering.  Been injured and isn't a test players A-hole.   Hazelwood could consider himself lucky too, but at least he's a non quantity at the standard.
Marsh is backup for Green I presume who will probably injure himself at the IPL carrying that suitcase of money onto the plane...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 19, 2023, 06:43:46 pm
At least he's younger than thirty
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 19, 2023, 06:48:38 pm
At least he's younger than thirty
Be interesting how he goes in England, he might like the Bazball conditions...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 20, 2023, 01:56:24 am
If we play a test series based on 4 days of ODI how can our squad not have Maxwell?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on April 20, 2023, 12:43:59 pm
The Marsh selection is bewildering.  Been injured and isn't a test players A-hole.  

The memorial-Brendan-Julian-selection.....   Good tourist, is Mitch.........
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 20, 2023, 03:28:26 pm
The memorial-Brendan-Julian-selection.....  Good tourist, is Mitch.........
They have low confidence in the playing conditions, that can't be sure if it is going to be Bazball or a Test grind, so they gone 50/50.

But even so, if you accept they have gone 50/50, it doesn't explain some of the choices that make up the mix!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 20, 2023, 05:13:20 pm
They have low confidence in the playing conditions, that can't be sure if it is going to be Bazball or a Test grind, so they gone 50/50.

But even so, if you accept they have gone 50/50, it doesn't explain some of the choices that make up the mix!
Marsh is a bazball choice so England have already dictated our selection theory, we have decided to play their way rather than stick to traditional test cricket imho. Warner can thank McCullum and Stokes for his ticket on this tour, if it was business as usual with Broad, Anderson and crew bowling on juiced up seaming tracks he wouldnt be playing...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 20, 2023, 05:16:15 pm
Marsh is a bazball choice so England have already dictated our selection theory, we have decided to play their way rather than stick to traditional test cricket imho. Warner can thank McCullum and Stokes for his ticket on this tour, if it was business as usual with Broad, Anderson and crew bowling on juiced up seaming tracks he wouldnt be playing...
I gather that the absence of Nesser or Richardson types is also a tell, basically one bowler who can swing the ball.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 20, 2023, 05:32:32 pm
I gather that the absence of Nesser or Richardson types is also a tell, basically one bowler who can swing the ball.
Neser is unlucky, I think Green will be bowling a lot more in this series than in other test series he has played.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 09, 2023, 12:04:52 pm
Can't see much benefit coming out of this WTC Final.

India basically look disinterested, earning too much IPL money I suspect and Test cricket looks like it's a burden for them, especially when things get tough. They'll still go hard if they get a roll on, but otherwise they look like they are half a step away from folding!

To make things worse, we are going hard and just exposing our tactics for the Poms to pick apart prior to the coming Ashes series.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 09, 2023, 01:28:54 pm
Can't see much benefit coming out of this WTC Final.

India basically look disinterested, earning too much IPL money I suspect and Test cricket looks like it's a burden for them, especially when things get tough. They'll still go hard if they get a roll on, but otherwise they look like they are half a step away from folding!

To make things worse, we are going hard and just exposing our tactics for the Poms to pick apart prior to the coming Ashes series.
Agree...India can't be bothered unless it's at home under their terms and conditions.
Got a few injuries and looks like a few personality clashes with Ashwin left out even though he has been one of the leading bowlers in test cricket.
Hope we keep flogging them and they get a warm spicy welcome at home from irate fans...the IPL is destroying test cricket and 
I don't have anytime for India and their dodgy practices with regard control over the world game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 09, 2023, 03:17:25 pm
They've got Jadeja and he's a seriously good player EB.  The problem was the old rope they served up day 1, of which Yadav is prone to do.... just like Starc did day 2 aside from one Jaffa.

Don't miss all the BS associated with Ashwin...the scowling and muttering, the mankad attempts, the three frivolous appeals every over...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 09, 2023, 03:28:50 pm
They've got Jadeja and he's a seriously good player EB.  The problem was the old rope they served up day 1, of which Yadav is prone to do.... just like Starc did day 2 aside from one Jaffa.

Don't miss all the BS associated with Ashwin...the scowling and muttering, the mankad attempts, the three frivolous appeals every over...
Agree Prof...Jadeja is a gun cricketer and has tortured Aus for years with both ball and bat. Id always select Ashwin though as together those two are usually keys to India winning and they both provide batting cover later in the innings. Just feel his mutterings and attitude issues are not confined to opponents and his manner with teammates and officials makes him unpopular especially with team leaders.
Of course India dont have Bumrah which degrades their pace attack and both Yadav and Thakur need conditions very much in their favour to influence games and this wicket is fairly docile.
Aus should win comfortably and then onto the Ashes where I think things will be a lot tougher....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 09:41:31 am
Our openers are still very sketchy EB, and Starc is too profligate with runs for my taste. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 11, 2023, 11:08:39 am
Our openers are still very sketchy EB, and Starc is too profligate with runs for my taste.
Starc is coming to the end.

He always leaked runs, that is nothing new, but he could get away with being scatter gun when his pace was at it's top in the 150kph range, excluding one or two deliveries in the whole day he is now back amongst the pack in terms of pace, and he hasn't got the control or consistency needed to deal with being average!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 06:08:46 pm
Like Warner, hung around a year too long
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 06:13:45 pm
Like Warner, hung around a year too long
Given Bazball is one day cricket disguised as test cricket Starc might be more useful than usual but he is at the end as is the injury prone Hazelwood. Warner should never been picked for this tour and I am a bit fed up listening to him telling us when he is going to retire under his terms..or was that his annoying wife saying that, I get confused with both of them having so much to say in the media.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 07:06:29 pm
X2.  Can't remember a player in any sport who had so much say over his selection.  His overweening confidence leans towards rampant narcissism.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on June 11, 2023, 07:08:25 pm
Given Bazball is one day cricket disguised as test cricket Starc might be more useful than usual but he is at the end as is the injury prone Hazelwood. Warner should never been picked for this tour and I am a bit fed up listening to him telling us when he is going to retire under his terms..or was that his annoying wife saying that, I get confused with both of them having so much to say in the media.
X2 absolutely agree. Sick of the both of them.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 09:30:49 pm
Starc is a pie chucker
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 11, 2023, 10:46:20 pm
Starc is a pie chucker
They keep giving Starc the cheap wickets at the end of the innings, I suppose if Hazelwood returns they'll drop Boland again!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 11:11:00 pm
They keep giving Starc the cheap wickets at the end of the innings, I suppose if Hazelwood returns they'll drop Boland again!

Boland is the Meat and Veg of our pace attack now, we really rely on him to keep it tight and winkle the top order batsman out when the going gets tough.
Nice win though and its always nice to beat India and keep test cricket on the front pages of the Hindustan times....their super keen fans wont be happy.😉
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on June 11, 2023, 11:21:59 pm
Good win to Australia. Test champions (officially) for the first time. One of many more to come.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 07:31:00 am
Boland is the Meat and Veg of our pace attack now, we really rely on him to keep it tight and winkle the top order batsman out when the going gets tough.
Nice win though and its always nice to beat India and keep test cricket on the front pages of the Hindustan times....their super keen fans wont be happy.😉
I love how Boland was described as metronymic the other night by one of the commentators. Just comes in the same way and bangs it in on the right spots all day.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 12, 2023, 11:35:46 am
Indians didn't bitch too much when two of Cummins' dismissals were recalled due to after the fact no balls.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 16, 2023, 05:04:05 pm
I'm gobsmacked but not surprised, listening today to SEN Sport pretty much every Ashes specialist they have interviewed expects Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood with Lyon.

Boland must be wishing he was a Saffie, or worse a NSWelshman!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 16, 2023, 08:10:09 pm
We slag off the Indians for pitch doctoring but looks like the poms are going to roll out roads for their bazball gameplan... I hope Lyon turns it square later on.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 16, 2023, 08:25:10 pm
He might have made a bazillion runs this year but that shot was worse than awful.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 16, 2023, 08:30:25 pm
He might have made a bazillion runs this year but that shot was worse than awful.
Yep.....poor shot before and tried the same lazy half drive/half cut and it was a soft dismissal.
Its a lifeless wicket though and going to have bowl tight and hope they get impatient, Bairstow and Ali give them some depth so a good test for Cummins as captain to stay in control of the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 16, 2023, 08:39:07 pm
Late order batting might come into play EB, we're thin in that area.

Gees it's as soft a batting wicket as I've seen in ages, pretty disappointing.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 16, 2023, 09:19:37 pm
Cummins bowled poorly on India and his lines and length are still erratic.  He's not bowling well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 16, 2023, 10:03:02 pm
Crawley is certainly not a walker and Erasmus is f****** blind.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 17, 2023, 07:22:05 am
Is it safe to say The Ashes series is already over after one day?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 17, 2023, 08:19:04 am
Is it safe to say The Ashes series is already over after one day?
Bazball won the day for sure buts it's still a long series, the wickets are all going to be flat lifeless one day types so bowling teams out is going to be tough for both sides.



Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 17, 2023, 10:12:49 am
I'd be tempted to play a second spinner.  Pitch is a disgrace. Best test wickets provide something for everyone, not just slogging.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 17, 2023, 10:25:18 am
I'd be tempted to play a second spinner.  Pitch is a disgrace. Best test wickets provide something for everyone, not just slogging.
Short boundaries Prof and England are playing 7-8 batsman and the odds are 2-3 will get going every innings going the slog so I reckon tough life for spinners too.
Lyon got carted everywhere...
I think you need a couple of 150km quicks who can bang it in and force some false shots. England should have played Wood imo...losing the toss hasn't helped either and it's a shame Ashes Cricket had come down to this level that you are playing short format cricket on pitches devoid of grass and resembling something out of India..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 17, 2023, 12:54:44 pm
When batters can drive a bloke like Boland's natural length through the off side with impunity, Im sorry but that's a crap pitch.  That said, I thought our field positions and bowling was rubbish at times, the amount of times Cummins and Lyon got worked away on the legside..... Aaaaargh.  I know they were trying to bowl stump to stump but it was too easy for blokes to get off strike.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 17, 2023, 09:21:37 pm
Please retire Warner, you're embarassing yourself
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 17, 2023, 10:00:54 pm
Please retire Warner, you're embarassing yourself
Agree...Id have Head opening and give Bazball a bit of its own medicine...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 19, 2023, 11:44:31 am
I suspect the Ollie Robinson spray gives us an insight into the discomfort the Poms feel being kept out in the field, they look to have become a bit too use to 5 minute cricket, and I think if our squad is smart it will take the grind to a whole new level!

I think our current mix of bowlers are just the right antidote for Bazball, Starc tendancy to be a leaky ship might have played into the Pommie upper orders hands. Pin the Poms down and they go from Lions to Sheep!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 19, 2023, 12:02:32 pm
Robinson is a disgrace with his outburst and England paid for their pitch doctoring tactics. The former should be suspended for the next test for that abuse he delivered...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 19, 2023, 12:07:14 pm
Robinson is a disgrace with his outburst and England paid for their pitch doctoring tactics. The former should be suspended for the next test for that abuse he delivered...
I think we'd be doing the Poms a favour having him suspended, he might well be dropped for Wood anyway!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 19, 2023, 09:11:33 pm
People might call me old fashioned but it was apalling, and his discussion afterwards was gibberish.

They're not exactly a classy mob this group of pommies.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 19, 2023, 09:16:17 pm
People might call me old fashioned but it was apalling, and his discussion afterwards was gibberish.

They're not exactly a classy mob this group of pommies.
Agree......I might have understood if he was waving McGrath off who wasnt short on some lip advice to batsman himself but Khawaja isnt a loud abnoxious Bay13 yobbo and plays nice so Robinson is way out of line and I hope the English Management make him apologise properly in person and not through some tinny statement that their PR dept drew up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 20, 2023, 12:59:01 pm
Id love to beat this mob to shove it right up them but our history in this situation is not good.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 20, 2023, 01:02:48 pm
Id love to beat this mob to shove it right up them but our history in this situation is not good.
Yes, I'm not even sure I'm brave enough to sit and watch it unfold!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 20, 2023, 06:28:20 pm
X2....I'll throw the remote through the telly for sure
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on June 20, 2023, 08:12:24 pm
Looking good so far…
😎
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2023, 06:55:05 am
Tail shouldn't have to wag like that but glad it did. Labuschagne, Smith, Head disgraceful.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 21, 2023, 07:02:06 am
Yep....if Head is so good, why does he keep getting out to rubbish spin.  Green the same.  Notwithstanding the fragile batting, no. 8 guiding the pie chucker Robinson down to third man to win the match, oh, that was delicious irony.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2023, 07:08:16 am
Yep....if Head is so good, why does he keep getting out to rubbish spin.  Green the same.  Notwithstanding the fragile batting, no. 8 guiding the pie chucker Robinson down to third man to win the match, oh, that was delicious irony.
1-0 after what Day 1 looked like is abit of a shock for a nuffie like me. Great result though, skipper showed his metal I guess. Cudo's to Ali for bowling through what looked like a hole in his finger. Broad's a pratt but looked ominous early.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 21, 2023, 08:25:36 am
They best add the ashes of a bazball to the old urn.

It's amazing the difference that 5th day makes when you work hard to play out the test!

I mentioned earlier in the thread Robinson's send off for Usman was a sign they were frustrated by test cricket batting, to me it's a sign that not all the Pommie squad is up for 5 day cricket, they might have gone a bit too far in the ODI aspect.

Great cricket to watch though, but you must have balance, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the rest of the pitches!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 21, 2023, 09:28:06 am
Great win and I hope Robinson enjoyed it..
Bringing back Ali and leaving out Wood were major blunders from England after they did an India and got the pitch they wanted..Anderson looks like the end is closer too, still accurate but lacks penetration on flat wickets like this test.
If he plays next test they will have to juice up the wicket....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on June 21, 2023, 02:40:25 pm
Great effort by the team and particularly Ussy and the skipper.

I guess that the rain would have dictated a draw if it hadn't been for Bazball.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on June 21, 2023, 10:56:23 pm
Admittedly I haven’t watched much of this test.
From what I’ve seen bazball isn’t reinventing the wheel.
Look back to the great windies sides of the 80’s, the Waugh, Ponting teams, India of the same era… they all looked to score quickly and give their bowlers a target that allowed them to bowl to attacking fields.
Some of the bazball fields were pretty unconventional and with two geriatric fast bowlers short spells are the norm but I’m not really seeing the revolution.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 21, 2023, 11:18:37 pm
Admittedly I haven’t watched much of this test.
From what I’ve seen bazball isn’t reinventing the wheel.
Look back to the great windies sides of the 80’s, the Waugh, Ponting teams, India of the same era… they all looked to score quickly and give their bowlers a target that allowed them to bowl to attacking fields.
Some of the bazball fields were pretty unconventional and with two geriatric fast bowlers short spells are the norm but I’m not really seeing the revolution.
Never seen the Bumbrella field before which is limited behind the wicket fielders but a umbrella arc in front of the batsman with everything pitched up on a driving length trying to get him to lift the ball over the field to score.
The Windies teams played with good technique...eg Greenidge and Haynes were very correct and played authentic shots, no weird fields either.....everyone behind the wicket bar a cover, silly mid on and fine leg or deep square leg. England are trying to bring one day cricket to Test cricket and instead of reinventing the wheel found themselves under it which is what they deserved for trying to be too smart for their own good.
The English fields will only get more weird when they bring the express Wood into the team, I watched Pak vs Eng and Stokes had Anderson bowling 6 bouncers an over at one stage with crazy fields.
The funny thing is we struggle to beat England at home and havent won a series there for ages and thats with them having played normal test cricket because they green the wickets up and have Broad and crew seaming it sideways but Bazball has actually given us a better chance to win a series there.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on June 21, 2023, 11:59:13 pm
It's interesting - score a big score in the first innings quickly, give yourself time to bowl the other side out twice (without enforcing a follow on) and there is less chance to lose the test.  Hence the declaration was a bad one in the first.

Batsmen are able to score more quickly for longer now, and there is more inventiveness in the cricket.  Bowlers, however, aren't used to the toil of test matches and this is where the fatigue comes in and a raft of quality bowlers is required.  Apart from Wood, I am not sure if England have much in reserve - not way can Broad and Anderson play 5 tests in 6 weeks on flat decks.

But if you prepare pitches so that bowlers don't have to toil as hard, the batsmen can't cope, as they don't have the techniques to play swing/cut, or patience if it gets a little hard, which defeats the purpose of Bazball.

Englands best chance is with the first, but it may well backfire, as we have the bowlers and batsmen that can cope with flat tracks and a better spinner.

Nothing in the first test - be interesting how the nerves hold for both teams - can't see Australia doing much different.  England has to tweak their team but don't think they will change their game plan either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 22, 2023, 05:32:27 pm
It feels like a "Let's not talk about the war moment!", just bring in Starc because Boland was "too expensive!" :o

Is that Starc the Economical, or Selectors the Comical!

Tough as they may be, just how many chances did they grass off Boland in the 1st innings, was it 2 or 3, and didn't he actually get two blokes out without an appeal from behind the stumps?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2023, 05:55:47 pm
It feels like a "Let's not talk about the war moment!", just bring in Starc because Boland was "too expensive!" :o

Is that Starc the Economical, or Selectors the Comical!

Tough as they may be, just how many chances did they grass off Boland in the 1st innings, was it 2 or 3, and didn't he actually get two blokes out without an appeal from behind the stumps?
I'd stick with Boland.....England will probably make a change or two with Wood and maybe Foakes as inclusions which will make them better and Starc is the type of bowler that bazball might benefit from given he leaks runs and thats by his own admission.
Boland was handy with the bat as nightwatchman and while his bowling wasnt sensational he is consistent and on a track that offers more which I think the next one will for bowlers like Anderson who also found the going tough Id want to keep the pressure on and not allow easy runs.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on June 26, 2023, 10:22:08 am
Interesting comment from Anderson about retiring if dead pitches continue to be served up.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 26, 2023, 10:37:46 am
Interesting comment from Anderson about retiring if dead pitches continue to be served up.


Reckon the next test wicket might have a bit more life for Sir Jim but I'd also expect him to be rested in rotation.
Think he is nearly done though and should retire at seasons end .I'd expect the new King to bestow a knighthood on him in the near future. Good bowler but I have never rated him as highly as the cricket experts and find him conceited and full of himself....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 28, 2023, 07:18:01 pm
Starc in Boland out
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 28, 2023, 08:25:45 pm
What a surprise.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on June 28, 2023, 08:43:52 pm
Not sure I would have replaced Boland, especially if there is a bit of movement in the pitch, but Starc swings the ball. Are they assuming the ball is going to swing? Not sure I want to make that assumption.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on June 29, 2023, 12:06:18 am
I think prior to last test, unless Cummins was captain, then I think Boland would have taken his spot. Loved Boland's innings last match and his tenacity to keep running in, but who do you drop? Starc will swing it at pace, go for runs and may rip through them on this pitch. Add to this as a left hander this helps Lyon as well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 29, 2023, 09:05:15 am
Agreed.  Cummins bowled poorly on India and in the first dig.  I think the rough Starc creates is a bit over rated but I can see why he got picked.  Hazelwood should buy a lotto ticket - and he and Mr Starc need to start returning wickets or the cartel might get broken up.  That Starc doesn't bowl well after two tests is a real concern and has cost us in series more than once - I would have held him back for what I see as the pivotal test - the third one.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 29, 2023, 09:45:52 am
That wicket isn't doing as much as people thought, and Root had an impact on something that was supposed to be a seamers paradise. It's probably the case that curator was given the word to green things up too late, and the result is superficial as the Poms would put it the pitch is a Mickey Mouse green top!

If the ball doesn't swing Starc will be a liability and he'll literally concede a cricket score, I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'll be right!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on June 29, 2023, 04:06:48 pm
Reckon the next test wicket might have a bit more life for Sir Jim but I'd also expect him to be rested in rotation.
Think he is nearly done though and should retire at seasons end .I'd expect the new King to bestow a knighthood on him in the near future. Good bowler but I have never rated him as highly as the cricket experts and find him conceited and full of himself....

Probably desirable attributes for a Pommy test cricketer  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 29, 2023, 04:16:01 pm
Probably desirable attributes for a Pommy test cricketer  :)
Is perhaps what @ElwoodBlues1 has seen in Jimmy more of an observation about intelligence and lucidity?

Anderson comes across to me as a pretty blunt tool, athletically gifted courtesy of great genetics, but not a lot of tactical genius!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 29, 2023, 06:16:17 pm
Jimmy has a bowling  average of 26 which is good but doesn't make him a great imho. He has played a lot of tests but I put that down to a thin pool of bowlers England have produced and a failed county system that favours short format cricket for the money.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 30, 2023, 07:25:58 am
Unimpressed by Starc.   Reeks of an ego selection.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 30, 2023, 07:51:59 am
Unimpressed by Starc.  Reeks of an ego selection.
They would have known 1/2-over in they made the wrong selection.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 30, 2023, 08:28:46 am
Starc is a pie chucker and his selection has cost the side before. You could handle it if he was taking wickets, but going at 6 an over !?!  Too many mates get selected in these sides, time to pick blokes who actually deliver.  Surely Nathan's replacement will be Murphy, but then again I'm sure NSW can wheel out another mate.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 30, 2023, 09:11:15 am
Ridiculous cricket late last night....Aus bowling 6 bouncers an over with everyone on the boundary in one day mode.
We have slipped to England's Bazball stupidity and it's a blight on the game.
It's going to cost us Lyon for the series after he popped a calf trying to take an outfield catch.
Some of the worst cricket I have seen ever...Starc and Green bowled garbage and even the accurate Hazelwood was forced to bowl bouncers every ball.
Might as well just play one day cricket for the ashes from now on down at a local park..what a joke from McCullum, Stokes and now Cummins.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 30, 2023, 09:23:34 am
100%.  Utterly brainless stuff.  Simply bizarre, but after all they are BDQs...

Everyone knows that spinners are the only bowlers given a skerrick of intelligence.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 30, 2023, 10:56:49 am
Might as well just play one day cricket for the ashes from now on down at a local park..what a joke from McCullum, Stokes and now Cummins.
And they are captained by a bar room brawler, a street thug, what do we expect?

But we haven't any high ground to take when we keep playing Warner and selecting Starc!

Bazball is OK, but as Mark Nicholl stated last night on the broadcast, test cricket is a long game that requires changes in tactics and momentum, if you are silly enough to fall into using the same tactic over and over eventually you'll be shown up as falling short.

The real trick might be to have smart leadership that can think on it's feet!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 30, 2023, 01:39:19 pm
And they are captained by a bar room brawler, a street thug, what do we expect?

But we haven't any high ground to take when we keep playing Warner and selecting Starc!

Bazball is OK, but as Mark Nicholl stated last night on the broadcast, test cricket is a long game that requires changes in tactics and momentum, if you are silly enough to fall into using the same tactic over and over eventually you'll be shown up as falling short.

The real trick might be to have smart leadership that can think on it's feet!
The real trick is to fix county cricket and produce test cricketers with good techniques who can bat on seaming pitches so we can get back to playing traditional long format test cricket and not have to put up with teams like England and India fecking up the game.I have said it before but the game is now ruined with doctored pitches, IPL money running the game and how we now have a small elite group of test nations and a poor 3rd world group who barely can compete expect in short format cricket.
South Africa a former world power don't have the money to keep players and are on the verge of abandoning test cricket if you look at the up coming schedules and the long game is at the crossroads.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on June 30, 2023, 02:08:58 pm
The game has been entertaining but having to put up with Mark Taylor's repetitive commentary is not.  What he says can be insightful but not when he repeats himself endlessly just to fill the silences.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on July 01, 2023, 06:08:15 pm
Ridiculous cricket late last night....Aus bowling 6 bouncers an over with everyone on the boundary in one day mode.
We have slipped to England's Bazball stupidity and it's a blight on the game.
It's going to cost us Lyon for the series after he popped a calf trying to take an outfield catch.
Some of the worst cricket I have seen ever...Starc and Green bowled garbage and even the accurate Hazelwood was forced to bowl bouncers every ball.
Might as well just play one day cricket for the ashes from now on down at a local park..what a joke from McCullum, Stokes and now Cummins.

Cummins nailed it. Set the field to their stupidity and worked a treat, as you should do as captain. As terrible as Starc was Thursday night, and it was awful, he was outstandingly brilliant as England collapsed last night.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 01, 2023, 06:20:27 pm
Cummins nailed it. Set the field to their stupidity and worked a treat, as you should do as captain. As terrible as Starc was Thursday night, and it was awful, he was outstandingly brilliant as England collapsed last night.
Dont really enjoy one day cricket as part of test cricket and its was nice to see Khawaja return us to normal with some nice test batting with technique last evening. Fizzball vs Ozball is for the local park and if that gets repeated then I wont be watching.
England are incompetent as per usual and I think we can beat them with traditional cricket, it cost us Lyon getting injured and someone is probably going to get hit in the head from either side and probably next test we are going to see both sides trading bouncers every ball and thats not great for the game imho...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 01, 2023, 07:29:50 pm
Getting to see the consequences of T20 on batting friendly pitches - no idea how to play short bowling and a plodding bowling attack.

It was good watching a tussle between bat and ball when Aussies were batting - could have been harder for us had theh all bowled 5km quicker.

While not counting chickens,  English tactics should have them lose again (and Australia's tactics have them win).  Press will be amazing to read.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 01, 2023, 09:42:15 pm
Fizzball is now bounce ball...Aus being pounded by bouncers.
The two per over above the shoulder rule has been shelved it seems.
Head can't play short stuff at the body and nearly got cleaned up by Tongue, someone is going to get hit and hurt badly like I said previously.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Macca37 on July 02, 2023, 02:22:06 am
After a break of 90 years it seems that Bodyline bowling is now back in favour with the Poms.  In my lifetime I have never witnessed such an unrelenting attack of short length bowling, over after over, aimed at the body.

Even when Lyon was standing almost outside leg stump with off and middle exposed, and unable to move, Broard attacked his body relentlessly. 

if this is where  the future of Test cricket is heading,  the outlook is bleak.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 02, 2023, 06:58:46 am
The non-catch decision of Starc's catch to dismiss Duckett was an utter disgrace. To use the fingers under the ball rule in that  situation was 100% incorrect. Starc caught it way of the ground and the motion of going to ground with ball securely in his hand, the ball rubs onto the turf. No fumbles, held it and its deemed ho didn't control it. Farken cheats.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2023, 09:29:45 am
The non-catch decision of Starc's catch to dismiss Duckett was an utter disgrace. To use the fingers under the ball rule in that  situation was 100% incorrect. Starc caught it way of the ground and the motion of going to ground with ball securely in his hand, the ball rubs onto the turf. No fumbles, held it and its deemed ho didn't control it. Farken cheats.
Neutral 3rd umpire Marais Erasmus needs to retire....that was clear cut a catch .
Smith took one that wasn't and that was the payback decision...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on July 02, 2023, 09:49:28 am
The non-catch decision of Starc's catch to dismiss Duckett was an utter disgrace. To use the fingers under the ball rule in that  situation was 100% incorrect. Starc caught it way of the ground and the motion of going to ground with ball securely in his hand, the ball rubs onto the turf. No fumbles, held it and its deemed ho didn't control it. Farken cheats.
Something really WRONG there.  As you say there was no fumbling he had complete control and held it for a while before hitting the ground.

So ground Ump called out but third came in saying no? 🤔 you don’t like to say that’s corrupt
But….
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 02, 2023, 10:07:19 am
Erasmus has been aiding and abetting the poms all series....needs to follow his guide dog into retirement
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2023, 10:10:58 am
After a break of 90 years it seems that Bodyline bowling is now back in favour with the Poms.  In my lifetime I have never witnessed such an unrelenting attack of short length bowling, over after over, aimed at the body.

Even when Lyon was standing almost outside leg stump with off and middle exposed, and unable to move, Broard attacked his body relentlessly. 

if this is where  the future of Test cricket is heading,  the outlook is bleak.
Agree...Lyon should not have batted either, nothing was gained and the whole game has been farcical.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 02, 2023, 07:04:47 pm
Neutral 3rd umpire Marais Erasmus needs to retire....that was clear cut a catch .
Smith took one that wasn't and that was the payback decision...
Thank you, Im a nuffy when it comes to cricket but that was a clear catch to me so I'm glad someone with your knowledge  EB confirmed what I thought.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on July 02, 2023, 07:36:28 pm
Thank you, Im a nuffy when it comes to cricket but that was a clear catch to me so I'm glad someone with your knowledge  EB confirmed what I thought.
One of the worst decisions in cricket history. This one will go down in infamy.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2023, 07:54:56 pm
Thank you, Im a nuffy when it comes to cricket but that was a clear catch to me so I'm glad someone with your knowledge  EB confirmed what I thought.
Not sure about my knowledge but it's kind of you to say that Nando but you and me both saw it the same way and it was a horrendous 3rd umpire blunder.
The whole test has been chaotic and the rules of the game seem more clouded than ever with bouncers, catches all creating havoc with umpiring and you would think at the home of cricket they could get it right.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 02, 2023, 09:51:12 pm
Don't worry about the catch.  Check out what Bairstow just did.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2023, 10:11:01 pm
Don't worry about the catch.  Check out what Bairstow just did.
Poked the bear...Stokes has gone berserk again...it cant last surely.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 02, 2023, 10:15:09 pm
Poked the bear...Stokes has gone berserk again...it cant last surely.
This bloke loves this type of situation. He'll take them all the way.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 02, 2023, 10:19:48 pm
He's got to - the last 4 bats aren't great.  We need to bowl smart to him.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 02, 2023, 10:21:49 pm
They can’t keep bowling to Stokes the way they have been before lunch. With the current fielding positions. This is playing into Stokes comfort zone. He has won it before and looks like he could do it again. Australia need to do something different.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2023, 10:31:09 pm
This bloke loves this type of situation. He'll take them all the way.
Surely we have enough runs and we will bowl smarter than what Green did.
Cummins field placings late were woeful too...big gaps for that down the ground half pull shot.
Got sucked in by Broad too....too much chat and not enough smarts.
I'd bring Starc back for Broad and pitch it up with the odd bouncer.
Need to take the crowd out of the game.
Bairstow was out but it was a bit similar to Mankadding a batsman imho and whether its a spirit of the game call.
I'm sure England will be trying it on now themselves  and over doing it like they did with bouncers and making the game more farcical next test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 02, 2023, 10:47:51 pm
Dumb cricket by Australia, wasted the moving pill, then just spent 30 minutes bowling the same old repetitive rubbish.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 02, 2023, 10:58:01 pm
Steve Smith drops a catch he should have taken. That could have won us the match.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 02, 2023, 11:05:33 pm
Dumb bowling continues
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 02, 2023, 11:09:33 pm
When is the bowling line and length going to change? This is like watching T20 cricket against a weak bowling attack.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2023, 11:57:31 pm
Prediction ..the Lyon partnership at the end of 15 runs will be the difference....I hope.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 03, 2023, 12:07:16 am
I'd say Australia are putting the brakes on to pin their hope to the new ball, really over the last couple of hours we've been exposed as a bunch of mindless robots. Serious questions have to be asked about our leadership, win or lose!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2023, 12:18:58 am
Stokes gone ....in a blaze of glory.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 03, 2023, 12:59:09 am
Just bowl at the stumps pleeease.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on July 03, 2023, 10:54:12 am
This test will probably be remembered for what happened to Bairstow, but it really shouldn't. Backyard cricketers are not stupid enough to walk down the pitch without knowing the ball is dead.
[1] England's Bodyline bowling was disgraceful. It wasn't acceptable back in the 1930's, it wasn't acceptable when the West Indies pushed the boundaries, it isn't acceptable now. The sooner it gets addressed, the better.
[2] That catch - unbelievable.
[3] The MCC - disgraceful. 3 members have been suspended. Slap on the wrist.
[4] Usman Khawaja and Steve Smith's innings.
[5] Ben Stokes' innings. 155 runs at pace.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 03, 2023, 11:48:50 am
This test will probably be remembered for what happened to Bairstow, but it really shouldn't.
I've heard on radio there is already footage circulating of Bairstow trying the very same thing be it unsuccessfully, but of course there is, Carey's actions are a pure keepers dismissal, a stumping, was always a stumping, and will always be a stumping! The fact Carey hit the stumps from 15m back makes little or no difference, you don't have to stand at the stumps to make a stumping.

The Poms should be careful of what they ask for!

PS; Apparently Bairstow tried the very same thing earlier in the test, of course he did it's a stumping!
Our 2nd Innings, Australia 79-1, Bairstow tries to stump Labuschagne off Anderson's bowling.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on July 03, 2023, 12:24:16 pm
Thoughts on the ‘spirit of the game’ commentary coming from the English team and coach?

Personally find that laughable, considering how they have played the game.

If I were an England supporter I’d be embarrassed by the behaviour of the team, the crying foul by the team now, the crown behaviour and in particular the members’ behaviour.

They said we should’ve withdrawn our appeal.

Did they not see that brilliant catch by Starc, that was deemed not so by the third umpire. When clearly - in the spirit of the game - that was a catch! They should’ve overturned the third umpires call then.

Poor sportsmanship by them and I have no sympathy at all.

Had they said fair enough Bairstow should and does know better, the Aussies just stayed switched on more than we did - I would respect them. 

As for the members’ behaviour, completely embarrassing and makes you think that privilege of standing in that area in such close proximity to the teams, should be revoked! Not often I’m leaving my workplace for lunch and getting abused by people on my way out!!!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 03, 2023, 12:58:27 pm
Thoughts on the ‘spirit of the game’ commentary coming from the English team and coach?
Personally find that laughable, considering how they have played the game.

If I were an England supporter I’d be embarrassed by the behaviour of the team, the crying foul by the team now, the crown behaviour and in particular the members’ behaviour.

They said we should’ve withdrawn our appeal.

Did they not see that brilliant catch by Starc, that was deemed not so by the third umpire. When clearly - in the spirit of the game - that was a catch! They should’ve overturned the third umpires call then.

Poor sportsmanship by them and I have no sympathy at all.

Had they said fair enough Bairstow should and does know better, the Aussies just stayed switched on more than we did - I would respect them. 

As for the members’ behaviour, completely embarrassing and makes you think that privilege of standing in that area in such close proximity to the teams, should be revoked! Not often I’m leaving my workplace for lunch and getting abused by people on my way out!!!
Spot on Micky. F em sideways
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 03, 2023, 01:46:15 pm
https://7news.com.au/sport/cricket/england-hypocrisy-revealed-as-telling-angle-on-alex-careys-stumping-of-jonny-bairstow-shows-full-story-c-11158873 (https://7news.com.au/sport/cricket/england-hypocrisy-revealed-as-telling-angle-on-alex-careys-stumping-of-jonny-bairstow-shows-full-story-c-11158873)

Yes, Bairstow tried it on Marnus.  Brendan got Murali.  If a keeper can't do that, then stumpings are gone.  Carey let go of the ball the moment he got it - he didn't wait for Bairstow to go out of his crease.

The more I see Starc's catch, the more I kind of get why it wasn't given out.

Whingeing sore losers (like the previous test that they felt they won.).  I haven't always liked the Australian test sides, but this English one is revolting.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2023, 02:10:21 pm
I get Bairstow was out but I agree with Brad Hogg that it's not a good look and I wouldn't have done what Carey did without warning the batsman first in a Mankad fashion.
Bairstow wasn't attempting a run and had remarked his guard and yep he was out officially but now it's just going to open the doors for all teams to try that stuff on and like the bouncer war it was us initiating it then the English going overboard and now they will be desperate to Mankad/Carey our blokes back and it just makes for poor unattractive cricket. It could have cost us the game too as Stokes and Broad really hardened their resolve and involved the crowd. I reckon if Carey had his time over he would have done it differently.
The Starc catch was a poor 3rd umpiring decision, Duckett had walked off .
That law about the ball in the ground when landing needs changing, it was a clean catch and he was only supporting his body landing on the ground.
Right result though in this game and makes for a fiery 3rd test.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 03, 2023, 02:53:58 pm
EB1 - so do you think that Bairstow would have given Marnus a warning had he hit the stumps and was out of his crease?  (moot point as it didn't happen).  Or that was a bad look for the game?  Carey let go of the ball before Bairstow had left his crease - he didn't wait for him to leave and then trhow it.

My concern is that in park cricket this is tried 10 times on a Saturday afternoon.  Haven't seen it work yet.  This will only encourage the keepers and that will double to 20 times!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2023, 03:11:30 pm
EB1 - so do you think that Bairstow would have given Marnus a warning had he hit the stumps and was out of his crease?  (moot point as it didn't happen).  Or that was a bad look for the game?  Carey let go of the ball before Bairstow had left his crease - he didn't wait for him to leave and then trhow it.

My concern is that in park cricket this is tried 10 times on a Saturday afternoon.  Haven't seen it work yet.  This will only encourage the keepers and that will double to 20 times!
Dodge, No ..Bairstow is a bit of a dick and I'm not a real fan of his demeanour and McCullum has done stuff similar in the past trying to get batsmen out. I just want us to be better than the English and be seen as sporting and keeping within the spirit of the game.
No need to sink to their level ....I have no problem with Carey warning then stumping a batsman who continues to offend or any of our bowlers Mankadding a batsman who keeps trying to steal ground when the bowler approaches the crease after they have been warned. Starc has done this in the past and it was all fair imo ..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on July 03, 2023, 03:39:07 pm
I think we have differing views on this one, EB!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2023, 03:58:28 pm
I think we have differing views on this one, EB!
Thats what makes its a great game Dodge......
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 03, 2023, 04:19:53 pm
Spirit of the game? Turn it up. As old mate Chop Chop once said, "whinge farken whinge", the English keeper and Coach have very short and selected memories it seems. No one from the mother land was prepared to talk spirit of the game trumping rules when that disgraceful decision was given against Starc. Cop your medicine and suck it up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2023, 04:34:41 pm
Spirit of the game? Turn it up. As old mate Chop Chop once said, "whinge farken whinge", the English keeper and Coach have very short and selected memories it seems. No one from the mother land was prepared to talk spirit of the game trumping rules when that disgraceful decision was given against Starc. Cop your medicine and suck it up.
That was the umpiring though...not the batsman, Duckett had accepted he was caught and walked off.......I just dont want to be in the same gutter as the English or McCullum.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LordLucifer on July 03, 2023, 04:37:10 pm
A lot of people may not be familiar with the rules that apply to Starc's catch. Whilst it is rather technical, the correct call was made even though it did crap me accordingly.

I took a catch in a match a few years ago back-pedalling to keep my eyes on the aggot, as the ball went into my hands, my momentum made me fall backwards onto my butt, I put my hands down on the ground to brace the fall, the ball still in my hand palm-down. There were calls of 'not out' from the opposition on the sidelines. The player umpire gave it out even though the rest of his team were shat off with him.

On returning to the pub after the match, I quizzed one of the guys who had just completed the umpires course and he explained why it should have been given 'not out'.

However, on the flipside, Bairstow's dismissal was completely in the rules as the umpire had not called 'over' so the game was not "dead". Besides, Carey took the ball and immediately threw it at the stumps, its not like he waited in hope for the opportunity.

The icing on the cake is that Bairstow has tried the same tactic on numerous occassions in this series already but because he is a crap throw, he has missed the stumps each time.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cricket-colin-de-grandhommes-day-to-forget-as-england-inch-closer-to-test-win-at-lords/3JHHO43SJUKCTWOA365C6TOBWY/?fbclid=IwAR2dNtWTHJoBsRdnUOTMFWPHKdTxlNbXPsw3eVW4BgyNpDTgKYFt19WAzLM

The Poms furore is mainly for the sole purpose of deflecting on the fact they are 2-0 down in the series because their new "Bazzball" tactics have failed dismally. 

The term "whinging Pom" has risen again and for damn good reason.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Macca37 on July 03, 2023, 04:39:38 pm
If England were truely concerned about the spirit of the game  we would have seen Stokes call out Bairstow immediately after his attempt to stump Marnus earlier in the game.  Fat chance of that ever happening. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 03, 2023, 04:52:55 pm
That was the umpiring though...not the batsman, Duckett had accepted he was caught and walked off.......I just dont want to be in the same gutter as the English or McCullum.
Didnt the match ref give Bairstow out?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2023, 04:56:57 pm
Didnt the match ref give Bairstow out?
Went to the third umpire for review as it was a stumping, replayed ....out of his ground, no umpire had called dead ball, given out on the big screen at the ground was my memory of how it went down.
Stokes talked to the umpires but seemed to accept the decision all be it not happy so I dont think the match ref was involved? unless the umps spoke to him at the time via their radio comms?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 03, 2023, 05:58:58 pm
Well, England confounded; Bairstow stumped.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 03, 2023, 06:57:21 pm
Went to the third umpire for review as it was a stumping, replayed ....out of his ground, no umpire had called dead ball, given out on the big screen at the ground was my memory of how it went down.
Stokes talked to the umpires but seemed to accept the decision all be it not happy so I dont think the match ref was involved? unless the umps spoke to him at the time via their radio comms?
Aussie coach on the news tonight said they had planned it as Bairstow is known to stray from the crease. Suck crap muppets.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on July 03, 2023, 07:34:45 pm
If England were truely concerned about the spirit of the game  we would have seen Stokes call out Bairstow immediately after his attempt to stump Marnus earlier in the game.  Fat chance of that ever happening. 
Indeed. Our crime here is that we were competent: our guy hits the stumps. No mention of the numerous attempts the English made which missed.
Would Stokes have taken it if Marnus had been stumped? You bet he would! Hypocrisy is something I do not like, and this is very much the case here.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on July 04, 2023, 12:16:17 am

The term "whinging Pom" has risen again and for damn good reason.

Whinge some; you lose some.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Macca37 on July 04, 2023, 12:58:23 am
The driving force behind the fury and insults hurled at the Australian team has not been mentioned: English exceptionalism.

Scratch the thin veneer of English civility and you will find the long-held belief that Australians are second class citizens incapable of meeting the professional and educational standards of the UK and Europe but are tolerated provided they know their place.

This was my experience when I visited England in 2017 to discuss a business venture and clearly nothing has changed.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 04, 2023, 03:36:43 am
I don’t care too much about what is considered “out and what isn’t “. Whether the body line style bowling is what makes a fair game or not. Whether too many short balls are out of the spirit of the game. The technicalities of a decision for out are sometimes neither here nor there. This is what creates something the media can run with and discredit a teams real performance. I just hope Cummins as a captain can react better to a swing in momentum. He employed a tactic to Stokes that could have lost us the game. The English players thrived on the rewards for far too long. Only after a lunch break did the team tactics completely change, and as a result we won the game. We changed the bowling line and length. We limited scoring shots. It therefore put pressure on Stokes to make a mistake. This is where the game turned around in our favour. Mind you we missed too many opportunities. The old saying of catches win matches. The Australian squad lost some focus and missed chances to seal this game many runs before they did. They need to get this focus back. Don’t get me wrong. This was a very entertaining match. We however should have whipped the opponent far easier than we did. Some of our batting needs serious addressing. I would guess the English squad will throw every dirty tactic in the next encounter. Win at any cost. They are not that good to be honest. Players over 35 or 40. Batting line up that has talent but not the best in the world. Is the home ground advantage that great?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 04, 2023, 09:39:46 am
^
Excellent appraisal Mantis.

Just on the Bairstow dismissal, I remember Dean Jones getting run out in a Test in the West Indies.  He was cleaned bowled and started to walk off before realising that the umpire had called a no-ball.  A Windies fielder picked up the ball and pulled out a stump before Jones could get back to his crease.  At the time I thought it was pretty crook but it was according to the rules and epitomised the ruthless cricket that made the Windies a real cricket power.

Of course, Bairstow’s attempt to stump Lambuschagne completely undermines the Pommy outrage.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 04, 2023, 09:56:07 am
Of course, Bairstow’s attempt to stump Lambuschagne completely undermines the Pommy outrage.
People have the wrong focus, it's the outrage that is the artificial and offensive, it's called a stumping.

Batsmen can't just wander around the crease willy nilly, but have a look at T20 and ODI, the batsmen claim mankad, not in the spirit of cricket, etc., etc.. when they are taking off for short runs and are 2m or 3mn down the crease by the time the bowler has released the ball.

Hypocrites!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Lods on July 04, 2023, 10:58:04 am
Hypocrites!

And xenophobes...but some of my best ancestors were English. :D
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 04, 2023, 11:48:50 am
And xenophobes...but some of my best ancestors were English. :D
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/894/wahmbulance.jpg)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 04, 2023, 11:50:57 am
Really, the whole controversy has being caused because Bairstow is sh1t at throwing.

If only Bairstow could throw straight, problem solved!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on July 04, 2023, 02:04:51 pm
^

Of course, Bairstow’s attempt to stump Lambuschagne completely undermines the Pommy outrage.

Not necessarily.  That would depend on whether Marnus was batting out of his crease or batting in his crease, as Bairstow was, before taking a foolish wander down the pitch.  I don't know the answer but I think the two scenarios would be entirely different.

Whatever the situation, Aussie batters should be careful not to carelessly 'handle the ball' or take some other ill-advised action during the rest of the series.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 04, 2023, 04:59:25 pm
Even if batting in the crease, if you lose balance be it against a spinner or a paceman, you can be stumped if your feet have left the ground inside crease. It's not like grounding your bat on a run, which I think is a bogus interpretation anyway, raise your foot and you're dead!

If I recall correctly an Aussie was out stumped a year or two back when they overbalanced after trying to sweep from deep within the crease.

I also recall a batsmen being dismissed because they jumped after crossing the line on the run, which is why the grounding the bat rule was changed to what it is now. Might have been our own Dean Jones.

I doubt you'll hear many complaints from Bairstow, he is wisely staying on mute!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on July 04, 2023, 06:20:29 pm
So say Carey threw to the stumps and it missed and it was a wild throw that took off - would the Poms have taken the opportunity for a run? I absolutely think so.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 04, 2023, 07:31:52 pm
Interesting on CH7 sport, Travis Head relayed a story that in the 1st test Bairstow did exactly the same thing to him (he missed) and when Head quizzed him at the end of the over along the lines of "would you have run me out"? he responded with "bloody oath I would". Hypocrisy abounds!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 04, 2023, 07:52:19 pm
Interesting on CH7 sport, Travis Head relayed a story that in the 1st test Bairstow did exactly the same thing to him (he missed) and when Head quizzed him at the end of the over along the lines of "would you have run me out"? he responded with "bloody oath I would". Hypocrisy abounds!
Yeah heard that, they just replayed it on SEN 10 mins a go. They also pointed out their Prime Minister attended the same illegal Covid Party Boris lost his job over. I'd hate to be appointed PM in those circumstances...yah farken hypocrite.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 04, 2023, 08:25:00 pm
https://twitter.com/i/status/1676061439214366720
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 04, 2023, 10:20:01 pm
Not necessarily.  That would depend on whether Marnus was batting out of his crease or batting in his crease, as Bairstow was, before taking a foolish wander down the pitch.  I don't know the answer but I think the two scenarios would be entirely different.

Whatever the situation, Aussie batters should be careful not to carelessly 'handle the ball' or take some other ill-advised action during the rest of the series.

It looked to me that Marnus was batting in his crease and still had his foot anchored behind the crease when the ball passed the stumps.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on July 04, 2023, 10:35:43 pm
Not necessarily.  That would depend on whether Marnus was batting out of his crease or batting in his crease, as Bairstow was, before taking a foolish wander down the pitch.  I don't know the answer but I think the two scenarios would be entirely different.

Whatever the situation, Aussie batters should be careful not to carelessly 'handle the ball' or take some other ill-advised action during the rest of the series.

No different. He was attempting to take the stumps as Carey did.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on July 04, 2023, 10:42:43 pm
I get Bairstow was out but I agree with Brad Hogg that it's not a good look and I wouldn't have done what Carey did without warning the batsman first in a Mankad fashion.
Bairstow wasn't attempting a run and had remarked his guard and yep he was out officially but now it's just going to open the doors for all teams to try that stuff on and like the bouncer war it was us initiating it then the English going overboard and now they will be desperate to Mankad/Carey our blokes back and it just makes for poor unattractive cricket. It could have cost us the game too as Stokes and Broad really hardened their resolve and involved the crowd. I reckon if Carey had his time over he would have done it differently.
The Starc catch was a poor 3rd umpiring decision, Duckett had walked off .
That law about the ball in the ground when landing needs changing, it was a clean catch and he was only supporting his body landing on the ground.
Right result though in this game and makes for a fiery 3rd test.....

Carey threw the ball absolutely immediately on taking it while Bairstow was actually in his crease. He left the crease while the ball was in-flight and live towards the stumps. Warnings for Mankads, no warnings for stumpings. If the ball is live, and if a ball being thrown it is live, then stay in your crease until the umpire calls over. His own idiotic fault.

Got to love the hypocrisy of McCullum and Broad. Imagine taking lectures off Broad for something like this.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on July 05, 2023, 12:23:39 am
No different. He was attempting to take the stumps as Carey did.

No difference under the rules but not comparable situations when trying to justify Bairstow's dismissal by comparing it to him attempting to throw down the stumps if a batter was playing out of his crease or fell out of his crease when playing a shot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 05, 2023, 01:13:45 pm
Some cove on Twitter summed up the situation perfectly:

"It’s called Bazball. If you lose, you act and talk as if you’ve won. If you lose again, you act and talk as if you would have won, were it not for some despicable act of cheating that, inexplicably, seems to have found its way into the Laws of the game."
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 05, 2023, 01:42:14 pm
Some cove on Twitter summed up the situation perfectly:

"It’s called Bazball. If you lose, you act and talk as if you’ve won. If you lose again, you act and talk as if you would have won, were it not for some despicable act of cheating that, inexplicably, seems to have found its way into the Laws of the game."
There isn't the time old adage (as derogatory as it might be) "Whinging Poms" for no reason mate. It also wasn't lost on my that a bunch of convicts had to teach those stuck up kents in the long room a thing or two about manners.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 05, 2023, 02:09:54 pm
Stuart Broad talking about the way the English team plays cricket:

“Those things aren’t remembered.  It’s winning the series that will be remembered.  We do have a win-at-all-costs mentality.  I think we’re quite an unpleasant team to play against at the moment.  Teams won’t play against us and enjoy the experience.  That’s what we want.”

I’m not entirely sure of the context but perhaps it was when Broad laughed and celebrated Johnny Bairstow running out De Grandhomme in similar circumstances to Bairstow’s dismissal.

Meanwhile Geoff Boycott has a different view:

"If you want to win at all costs then cricket should not be for you."

Perhaps Geoff and Stuart should get together and work out what is the right way to play cricket 🙄

Meanwhile, ground staff at Headingly are struggling to get the pitch ready after it was flooded by a river of tears 🙂
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 05, 2023, 02:15:20 pm
Meanwhile, ground staff at Headingly are struggling to get the pitch ready after it was flooded by a river of tears 🙂
Quite ironic given Lord's is out of action due to the clean-up after a slaughter!

In the olden days The Ashes marked the death of English cricket, is it time to move cricket's headquarters as well?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 05, 2023, 02:45:03 pm
The next Test should be a cracker, its gonna be On Like Donkey Kong. I think this type of aggressive Cricket suits this Aussie team to a T. We don't seem to have any shrinking violets, but at the same time, I think our blokes are incredibly classy. Having said that, the English will be reeling and I expect a fire contest. What would be best for the series would be for the Poms to win the next 2 and then we win the decider. Of course for us the best would be a 5-0 whitewash but I can't see that happening.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 05, 2023, 03:14:55 pm
Pope out for the series...English are going with 5 bowlers ,Woakes, Wood and Ali in, Pope ,Tongue and Anderson out.
Wood bowled this crap 6 bouncers per over rubbish in Pakistan on dead wickets and was effective but they were able to rotate and rest him but if he bowls like that this test he won't last the series as he has had no preparation.Bit surprised Tongue was dropped and Robinson retained...
They are propping up the batting with Woakes and Ali as bowling allrounders.
I'm just presuming Stokes wants to employ 4 quicks for a bouncer war, be interesting to see how green the wicket is for this test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 05, 2023, 05:44:25 pm
Pope out for the series...English are going with 5 bowlers ,Woakes, Wood and Ali in, Pope ,Tongue and Anderson out.
Wood bowled this crap 6 bouncers per over rubbish in Pakistan on dead wickets and was effective but they were able to rotate and rest him but if he bowls like that this test he won't last the series as he has had no preparation.Bit surprised Tongue was dropped and Robinson retained...
They are propping up the batting with Woakes and Ali as bowling allrounders.
I'm just presuming Stokes wants to employ 4 quicks for a bouncer war, be interesting to see how green the wicket is for this test.

Be nice if it was wild WACA type pitch. That would sort out the men from the boys.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2023, 08:05:07 pm
Fark me, I turn the cricket on, first ball I see, wicket, Warner gone
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 06, 2023, 09:05:03 pm
Wood bowling express, glad he didn't play the earlier tests. If they ever get Archer fit they might be scary..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2023, 09:13:52 pm
Wood bowling express, glad he didn't play the earlier tests. If they ever get Archer fit they might be scary..
Just under 100mph
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2023, 09:39:02 pm
3 for 70, this aint going well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 06, 2023, 09:57:55 pm
4 for 85 down, be lucky to make 150 at this rate.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 06, 2023, 10:07:54 pm
4 for 85 down, be lucky to make 150 at this rate.
Might be better off bazballing ...the wicket is quicker and England have picked a better attack and defending won't end well.
Head and Marsh should see Wood off then attack the others imo..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 06, 2023, 10:37:44 pm
Just come off shift....WTF is Marsh playing !?!  Surely that's a break glass in case of extreme emergency only option?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on July 06, 2023, 11:47:27 pm
Thank goodness he’s in! He’s batting superbly 👏🏽
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 07, 2023, 12:24:57 am
Well done Mitch Marsh 👏
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 12:28:03 am
Where have they been hiding Marsh?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 12:34:35 am
Fark me he is clubbing them
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 12:41:08 am
118 at a run a ball, made their quicks and our top order look stupid.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 07, 2023, 01:17:40 am
What is wrong with Head? He plays a cheap rubbish stroke to be dropped by Root in the slips. Then plays a crapty attempt to play a ball that looked like it would always be an edge to Root in the slips to be caught. WTF was he thinking? If the poms had held their catches we would be lucky to score 200. As it is we won’t get past 350 by the look of things. Things were looking great while Marsh was there. It looks like turning to crap from here on.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 07, 2023, 01:24:48 am
OMG. We might not get much more than 250. What a complete batting collapse. This test result will be going the way England needs.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 07, 2023, 06:53:44 am
Yea, didn't even know he was in the squad, took me back to Covid days.

Alarming trends emerging....Warner out cheaply to Broad, the overall fragility of the batting unit, brainless shot selection from the usual suspects, nothing from the tail and Wood getting amongst us due to express pace.  None of this augers well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 07, 2023, 07:49:29 am
Just come off shift....WTF is Marsh playing !?!  Surely that's a break glass in case of extreme emergency only option?
Actually, replacing Green it reminds me a bit of our bringing in Cunningham and Fogarty to replace Motlop and Durdin.

Is this the cricket version of the old head replacing the beginner?

He's played a ton of cricket in the UK over the years and made all the England bowlers look like gooses, but even worse for the UK, he has a knack of cleaning up in the bowling as well.

My reservation, Marsh breaks down too often, he might have a good game or two but then often misses a month with a hammy or some other silly injury.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 07, 2023, 08:44:16 am
Marsh got dropped on 12.. a real dolly to Root. Same old England...not good enough, their batting was dreadful again, fielding worse, although Bairstow will probably make runs on his home deck given he has been shocking as a keeper and Foakes should be playing but the old boys club has got Bairstow his spot,  but he is over due to do something.
Marsh played well but got lucky and is unreliable technique wise imho.
Did feel for Carey who got booed, then smashed in the head by Wood and looked glad to get off the ground.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 07, 2023, 09:09:27 am
The spirit of cricket coves were out in force when Carey got sconed … tossers!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 07, 2023, 09:14:41 am
Yea, lot of spirit of the game stuff....not.

This current batch of poms includes a large number of classless flogs.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 07, 2023, 10:49:09 am
It's a bit weird reading the reports of Mitch Marsh.

Some in the media referring to him as our "Most Maligned Cricketer", surely this is a WA / NSW Cricket perspective, because while Warner continues to be selected how can it possibly be the case that Mitch Marsh would be the most maligned by the Australian public?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 07, 2023, 10:50:45 am
This current batch of poms includes a large number of classless flogs.
The Poms are bar room brawlers, .............. literally! :o

But I suppose while we keep playing Warner it's difficult to take the high ground!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 07, 2023, 11:45:05 am
It's a bit weird reading the reports of Mitch Marsh.

Some in the media referring to him as our "Most Maligned Cricketer", surely this is a WA / NSW Cricket perspective, because while Warner continues to be selected how can it possibly be the case that Mitch Marsh would be the most maligned by the Australian public?
Marsh averages mid 20s in test cricket...made all his runs against England. He is maligned for a reason...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 07, 2023, 11:49:42 am
He is maligned for a reason...
Doesn't the adverb matter, "maligned" maybe but "most maligned" hardly? ;)

Reporting Mitch Marsh as the "Most Maligned" just exposes a victim mentality, he can blame his failings on somebody else, in the meantime it's "Don't talk about the war......." for Warner!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 07, 2023, 01:41:49 pm
Mark Butcher could get excommunicated by English cricket after his comment last night.  It was along the lines of, “I don’t know what all the fuss is about [Bairstow’s dismissal and other similar stumpings and runouts], batsmen shouldn’t wander out of their crease.”
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 07, 2023, 04:09:33 pm
Warner didn't last an over vs Broad, surely the end is nigh?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 07, 2023, 05:13:38 pm
Warner didn't last an over vs Broad, surely the end is nigh?
Mates club so he stays in......plus no one really knocking the door down either. Reckon he will call it quits at series end and stick to the short format stuff. He will be hoping Broad gets rotated out next test after they lose this test and the Ashes.
Think Jimmy will get the last two tests and call it quits too, Joe Root is bowling quicker than Jimmy....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 06:42:36 pm
I like how Stokes followed his "spirit of the game" mantra and told the umpire he touched the rope while holding the ball calling it a 4. Well played Sir.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 07, 2023, 06:46:26 pm
I like how Stokes followed his "spirit of the game" mantra and told the umpire he touched the rope while holding the ball calling it a 4. Well played Sir.
The 3rd umpire needs replacing too...how could he not see that was a four with Stokes arm on the boundary barrier?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 10:43:24 pm
Wood comes to the crease, Starc bowling 6 4 6 0 0 2
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 07, 2023, 10:44:12 pm
I thought footballers were dumb  ::)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 10:47:02 pm
6 more 24 off 5 balls then skies one to Marsh.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 07, 2023, 11:40:05 pm
First Ashes wicket for Murphy.  Hopefully, the first of many.

Cummins was outstanding.

Not much of a lead but the Poms will be hampered by fragile bowlers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 11:42:46 pm
Can see the Aussie top order dropping like flies here.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 07, 2023, 11:54:09 pm
Warner is dead set Broads bunny. Surely he is finished.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Macca37 on July 07, 2023, 11:56:31 pm
Agree. He is an embarrassment.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 08, 2023, 02:01:50 am
Marnus. Dumb arse shot after almost being caught behind. When will these guys learn to focus after they get an “out of jail card” for free? That is your opportunity to score a ton and make the fielding side suffer the consequences. This top order needs to not rely on Marsh to do something to get a score they can defend.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 08, 2023, 06:12:50 am
Yep, Marnus playing dumb cricket, needs a boot in the arse.  Not converting is becoming a worrying pattern.

Starc....well, it's long established he doesn't care about conceding runs.  Maybe time to try something different.

Boland... The lack of penetration is concerning.

Warner... We all saw it, stats underlined it, but ego and Candice the selector got him on the boat.  Isn't making runs or surviving, which means ta ta.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 08, 2023, 07:23:28 am
Boland... The lack of penetration is concerning.
Did you watch?

Boland's last spell he beat the edge over and over again but couldn't but a nick, Stokes couldn't lay bat on ball, and Boland didn't need to resort to the costly short rubbish like Cummins or Starc!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2023, 07:36:47 am
Did you watch?

Boland's last spell he beat the edge over and over again but couldn't but a nick, Stokes couldn't lay bat on ball, and Boland didn't need to resort to the costly short rubbish like Cummins or Starc!
In that session where Wood and Stokes carted Cummins, Starc and Murphy all over the ground, why was Boland given a crack?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 08, 2023, 11:56:00 am
In that session where Wood and Stokes carted Cummins, Starc and Murphy all over the ground, why was wasn't Boland given a crack?
Is that what you meant to write?

I couldn't work it out either, if not for an "Umpires Call" Boland had Stokes done cold LBW, hitting the middle of middle stump, but courtesy of some fag paper thick virtual line on the pitch the batsmen get the benefit of the doubt because the system says not more than half the ball is inside the virtual line, thank the BCCI for that one!

I didn't realise the rules of cricket stated a percentage that has to pitch in line before it is deemed to pitch in line!

Then Boland beat Stokes and Ali, multiple times, but only bowled one bouncer in the entire spell, was Boland penalised for not towing the company line, who knows! But it was ridiculous cricket, and every time they start bowling short to Stokes it plays into his hands!

I suppose the NSWelshmen are slagging off Murphy as well for being carted, but reality is he had Stokes done two or three times in his first couple of overs if not for missed catches, those first few overs went for just 1 run an over. Then it was too late Stokes was off and running and making them all look pedestrian.

Then when the chance is there to bury the Poms, Smith and Labuschagne have melt downs, it was bizarre.

I'd be monitoring both teams for signs of Indian bookmakers!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 08, 2023, 02:35:24 pm
Id ask why Marsh wasnt given overs when Stokes was going, everything he has been touching has turned to gold and his forte is short format cricket which is essentially what is being played now.
England cant expect a banged up Stokes to carry the team and I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt play the next test if the Ashes are lost. He cant keep playing these whirlwind innings and is due for a low score soon, he played a tired sore shot to get out and even when he was dropped I didnt put it down to great bowling more him being forced to play big shots to try and get England some runs as the rest of his batsmen were contributing nothing and getting out.
We should win this test comfortably imo and we have the potential for a clean sweep if Stokes doesnt play again this series...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2023, 06:51:47 pm
Is that what you meant to write?

I couldn't work it out either, if not for an "Umpires Call" Boland had Stokes done cold LBW, hitting the middle of middle stump, but courtesy of some fag paper thick virtual line on the pitch the batsmen get the benefit of the doubt because the system says not more than half the ball is inside the virtual line, thank the BCCI for that one!

I didn't realise the rules of cricket stated a percentage that has to pitch in line before it is deemed to pitch in line!

Then Boland beat Stokes and Ali, multiple times, but only bowled one bouncer in the entire spell, was Boland penalised for not towing the company line, who knows! But it was ridiculous cricket, and every time they start bowling short to Stokes it plays into his hands!

I suppose the NSWelshmen are slagging off Murphy as well for being carted, but reality is he had Stokes done two or three times in his first couple of overs if not for missed catches, those first few overs went for just 1 run an over. Then it was too late Stokes was off and running and making them all look pedestrian.

Then when the chance is there to bury the Poms, Smith and Labuschagne have melt downs, it was bizarre.

I'd be monitoring both teams for signs of Indian bookmakers!
Yes that's what I meant, wasn't not was.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 08, 2023, 06:54:38 pm
Id ask why Marsh wasnt given overs when Stokes was going, everything he has been touching has turned to gold and his forte is short format cricket which is essentially what is being played now.
England cant expect a banged up Stokes to carry the team and I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt play the next test if the Ashes are lost. He cant keep playing these whirlwind innings and is due for a low score soon, he played a tired sore shot to get out and even when he was dropped I didnt put it down to great bowling more him being forced to play big shots to try and get England some runs as the rest of his batsmen were contributing nothing and getting out.
We should win this test comfortably imo and we have the potential for a clean sweep if Stokes doesnt play again this series...

Whats the bet those runs Wood and Stokes were gifted will come back to haunt the Aussie? That along with Warner and Smith seemingly unable to contribute even a half meaningful score. Warner should be on the first plane home after this test, he is embarrassing.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 08, 2023, 07:48:42 pm
Careful, chief selector Candice will cancel you.

I would have told him to pack his kit after the Sydney test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 09, 2023, 03:11:40 am
Will there even be 250 runs for the poms to chase?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 09, 2023, 04:00:39 am
250 might not be enough to defend. Head did well to set up some total. More than the established upper order did. Now it is up to the bowling attack to win this match. The ball has moved around off the pitch, so the bowlers better not waist their opportunity.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 09, 2023, 06:42:19 am
Poms bat normally and they crap this in.

Top order lost this test. Getting out to Ali is inexcusable.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 09, 2023, 11:45:18 pm
Cricket politics is truly toxic, listening to Taylor hang it on Boland as being too expensive and not taking enough wickets, at the time he had 10-0/49, but 21 of those runs come from outside or inside edges, four of them boundaries.

Taylor is all about getting his preferred back in the squad, probably Hazelwood, I usually like Taylor especially when he talks tactics, but I can't take him seriously at times.

In the meantime Cummins starts bowling short rubbish again, edges go to the boundary or fall into free space and Taylor states he is been unlucky.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 10, 2023, 12:45:36 am
A game we should have won. They better learn from their mistakes. My feeling is England will win the next game. They have the hope. They have confidence. They feel the next win coming. Our upper order is soft, and weak. Bowling today wasn’t exceptional. Field placement wasn’t great. Nothing was an indicator Australia would win. Poms did it easy in the end. Thank god Stokes didn’t get the final run. Wake up and work better. I like the English aggressive style to run chasing. I might back them in the next test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on July 10, 2023, 01:54:58 am
Cricket politics is truly toxic, listening to Taylor hang it on Boland as being too expensive and not taking enough wickets, at the time he had 10-0/49, but 21 of those runs come from outside or inside edges, four of them boundaries.

Taylor is all about getting his preferred back in the squad, probably Hazelwood, I usually like Taylor especially when he talks tactics, but I can't take him seriously at times.

Can't stand him myself - expresses an opinion (often biased) and then repeats it over and over and over and over ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 10, 2023, 07:36:20 am
A game we should have won. They better learn from their mistakes. My feeling is England will win the next game. They have the hope. They have confidence. They feel the next win coming. Our upper order is soft, and weak. Bowling today wasn’t exceptional. Field placement wasn’t great. Nothing was an indicator Australia would win. Poms did it easy in the end. Thank god Stokes didn’t get the final run. Wake up and work better. I like the English aggressive style to run chasing. I might back them in the next test.
They seem to have bowling attacks who can skittle our top order for low scores and then batsmen who can dig in.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 10, 2023, 09:18:04 am
The GOAT would have been handy but just not enough runs to defend.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on July 10, 2023, 09:53:46 am
There has never been an English team to come back from 2 - 0 deficit to win the ashes. I'm guessing this is where we're headed.  :'(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on July 10, 2023, 10:35:49 am
A game we should have won. They better learn from their mistakes. My feeling is England will win the next game. They have the hope. They have confidence. They feel the next win coming. Our upper order is soft, and weak. Bowling today wasn’t exceptional. Field placement wasn’t great. Nothing was an indicator Australia would win. Poms did it easy in the end. Thank god Stokes didn’t get the final run. Wake up and work better. I like the English aggressive style to run chasing. I might back them in the next test.
Broad getting the winning runs would’ve been even worse!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Micky0 on July 10, 2023, 10:36:22 am
Can't stand him myself - expresses an opinion (often biased) and then repeats it over and over and over and over ...
He is so tiresome to listen to - just prattles on for no reason.  Not every space needs to be filled!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 10, 2023, 10:37:28 am
They seem to have bowling attacks who can skittle our top order for low scores and then batsmen who can dig in.
Wood probably sparked England and Woakes added some stability with ball and bat. We got lucky Englands fielding has been substandard and they have dropped a lot of catches and that's been the difference but eventually they started hanging onto a few and the result went their way accordingly.
I'd drop Warner and open with Head but the boys club want to look after their mate and he will keep his place.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 10, 2023, 10:44:41 am
Re: Boland....suffers with Bazball as they are looking for an easier paced bowler to hit and all bat out of their crease  and treat him like a medium pacer. Also bowling bouncers every ball isn't his go, he builds pressure with accuracy and is looking to nick players off rather than have them caught on the boundary.
England producing flat one day tracks hasnt helped him either and Hazelwood will probably take his spot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 10, 2023, 10:59:41 am
If be looking at Neser too, our tail is giving nothing with the bat and he is a strong all surfaces bowler.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 10, 2023, 11:36:54 am
Re: Boland....suffers with Bazball as they are looking for an easier paced bowler to hit and all bat out of their crease  and treat him like a medium pacer. Also bowling bouncers every ball isn't his go, he builds pressure with accuracy and is looking to nick players off rather than have them caught on the boundary.
England producing flat one day tracks hasnt helped him either and Hazelwood will probably take his spot.
@ElwoodBlues1 at one stage they had hit five(5) boundaries and a bunch of singles off Boland yesterday, four boundaries over or through slips, and one an inside edge to fine leg.

In the broadcast Taylor unloaded on Boland, in his last over Boland had Bairstow all over the place, Bairstow inside edged a ball just past leg stump for four, Taylor said Boland was too expensive and lacked control.

Cummins put himself on to replace Boland from that end the next over and Bairstow got pretty much the same inside edge onto the stumps, Taylor called it great bowling.

Rubbish commentary like that is straight out of an episode of The Twilight Zone, and it gets picked up by the media and parroted like it's a statement of fact!

I feel for Boland, he was probably our best bowler but just couldn't buy a wicket, the commentators labelled Boland as expensive but the other bowlers went for more runs off the middle of the bat! 20 of 49 runs Boland conceded came from completely uncontrolled edges.
(https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5301.0;attach=1361)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 10, 2023, 12:52:55 pm
If be looking at Neser too, our tail is giving nothing with the bat and he is a strong all surfaces bowler.
I think Neser has been released to play with his county team, not sure for how long . I'd expect Hazlewood to play in the next two games.
Be interesting what they do with Green....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 10, 2023, 02:19:49 pm
If we had openers that could survive more than one over maybe our bats could contribute a bit more, Marnus coming in a 1 for F all doesn't help. 

Not bowling well as a unit, just bowling as individuals.  Exceedingly unimpressed with Hazelwood, and he might have been unlucky but Boland needs wickets.

The bowling "plans" are very ordinary ATM.  I wonder if we need to chuck in a real wildcard like Morris to put the wind up 'em....maybe depends on the whether or not the ashes are live after next week
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 10, 2023, 02:47:47 pm
If we had openers that could survive more than one over maybe our bats could contribute a bit more, Marnus coming in a 1 for F all doesn't help. 

Not bowling well as a unit, just bowling as individuals.  Exceedingly unimpressed with Hazelwood, and he might have been unlucky but Boland needs wickets.

The bowling "plans" are very ordinary ATM.  I wonder if we need to chuck in a real wildcard like Morris to put the wind up 'em....maybe depends on the whether or not the ashes are live after next week
Id like to see Neser play as he is a smart bowler who while lacking pace does more with the ball and is well suited to the English conditions and has been great at County level. I think Morris would have his moments but would also cop some bazball treatment and Im not a real fan of this every ball bouncer tactic which gets over done and now even the English tailenders are getting used to and you get players like Wood smashing our quicks around. Not sure after his whirlwind 20 odd in the first innings why we pounded him with bouncers again when runs were precious. Some of our bowling plans and field placings baffled me and also the actual personnel we used in important positions where we needed our best fielders.
The Fly slip bungle where Carey ran all the way to take the catch but just missed it and Boland had to only come in a short distance to catch the ball was farcical. Did Carey call him out? or did Boland not have confidence to take the catch?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 11, 2023, 01:02:06 pm
The spirit of cricket is alive and well in Yorkshire  ::)

https://twitter.com/dpcoverdale/status/1677780653712998403?s=20&fbclid=IwAR1YWz7Mc0fsMzNmLojzywq_zhi2VWiUjhY_3o5ZztVOf7LXx1XWWok23IE
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: bricky on July 14, 2023, 04:02:19 pm
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/australian-selectors-caught-in-the-cult-of-warner-20230713-p5do3i.html
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 14, 2023, 06:30:53 pm
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/australian-selectors-caught-in-the-cult-of-warner-20230713-p5do3i.html

A very convincing and damning argument.

Like most things, cricket followers just want consistency and transparency … and the best eleven players on the park.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 14, 2023, 07:11:08 pm
Australian and English cricket share one thing in common and thats the mates club have a large bearing on selection.
Two players I would focus on are Warner and Bairstow, both have been ordinary, both should be dropped but the mates club and weak coaches have kept them in the team because they are popular in the dressing room and we have seen what happens to a coach who makes waves with the playing group ie Langar, even impeccable results couldnt save him when he got offside with a few players because he wanted to run a tighter ship and demand excellence in training.
We all know Warner is rat crape in England and is Broads bunny but its not about Warner anymore its more about the embarrassing excuses trotted out by McDonald and management why he is still being picked and Bairstow is the same.
Everyone knows Foakes is the best keeper in England by a long way and probably the world and Bairstow wouldnt even be in the top 3 keepers in England, Not only has he not performed with gloves or bat he has made a goose of himself on the field but survives on his mateship with senior players in the dressing room. I expect this type of rubbish from England and its corrupt county system which has been under fire for its private school  tie come first mentality and racist attitudes but not Australia and players picking and choosing when they will leave team is laughable along with their bleating spouses making their thoughts known in the media...see Candice Warner.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on July 15, 2023, 02:40:35 pm
@ElwoodBlues1 at one stage they had hit five(5) boundaries and a bunch of singles off Boland yesterday, four boundaries over or through slips, and one an inside edge to fine leg.

In the broadcast Taylor unloaded on Boland, in his last over Boland had Bairstow all over the place, Bairstow inside edged a ball just past leg stump for four, Taylor said Boland was too expensive and lacked control.

Cummins put himself on to replace Boland from that end the next over and Bairstow got pretty much the same inside edge onto the stumps, Taylor called it great bowling.

Rubbish commentary like that is straight out of an episode of The Twilight Zone, and it gets picked up by the media and parroted like it's a statement of fact!

I feel for Boland, he was probably our best bowler but just couldn't buy a wicket, the commentators labelled Boland as expensive but the other bowlers went for more runs off the middle of the bat! 20 of 49 runs Boland conceded came from completely uncontrolled edges.
(https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5301.0;attach=1361)


I thouhgt boland would be effective in england, and against attacking batsman, but it just hasnt been.  as much as i like him...  2/230 means he wont be playing again this series
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 15, 2023, 02:50:12 pm
I thouhgt boland would be effective in england, and against attacking batsman, but it just hasnt been.  as much as i like him...  2/230 means he wont be playing again this series
Green and Marsh have looked more dangerous given the Bazball nature of the game we are being forced to play. Boland isnt your 6 bouncers an over type player and needs proper test cricket to excel. I'd say you are right and he wont play again and I think Neser might get even a game given his county form. Bolands fielding hasnt been too exciting either and I still cant figure out why he didnt attempt that fly slip catch off Woakes either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 16, 2023, 09:42:14 am
Green and Marsh have looked more dangerous given the Bazball nature of the game we are being forced to play. Boland isnt your 6 bouncers an over type player and needs proper test cricket to excel. I'd say you are right and he wont play again and I think Neser might get even a game given his county form. Bolands fielding hasnt been too exciting either and I still cant figure out why he didnt attempt that fly slip catch off Woakes either.

Wicketkeeper has right of way.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 16, 2023, 09:52:06 am
Wicketkeeper has right of way.
Normally I would agree but Carey had to run a long way and dive for the ball and never looked like making it.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 16, 2023, 10:54:16 am
Normally I would agree but Carey had to run a long way and dive for the ball and never looked like making it.

True, but it was more a case of poor judgment by Carey.  He should have pulled up and called Boland’s catch.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 16, 2023, 10:59:11 am
True, but it was more a case of poor judgment by Carey.  He should have pulled up and called Boland’s catch.
Yep, if the keeper calls it then it is always the keepers catch, the media trying to blame Boland for that is bizarre, and cricket fans and past players should know better.

The Pommie media is piling on Boland because he is the one they do not want, almost 50% of the runs coming off his bowling comes from edges, that is dead lucky by the Poms not poor cricket from Boland.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 20, 2023, 06:02:18 am
Green and Hazelwood need to deliver on those selections
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 20, 2023, 09:15:18 am
Green and Hazelwood need to deliver on those selections
Leaving the spinner out might bite us...Greens footwork isn't great against the moving ball.
Wood and Woakes have lifted England with the ball since coming into the team.
Bowlers will need to get us back in front in this game...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 20, 2023, 10:21:14 am
I tend to agree, leaving the spinner out might bite us, but it does look like the weather is going to smash this game in the next few days so it might be irrelevant.

The bigger question is the batting, we went heavy on the batting line up and massively under-delivered, the 1st Innings average here is about 380 with a normal batting line up, we have limped to 300 with a supercharged batting line up! The Aussie media are reporting honours are even, but actually based on the venue history we are already behind.

Ironically, this looks like the type of pitch that is perfect for a Boland type, hopefully Hazelwood can deliver.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 20, 2023, 11:08:43 pm
I can't watch this, Poms are going to town
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 21, 2023, 12:11:11 am
Short stuff is just being pounded, Starc looks injured and having no spinner is starting to bite us.
Going to be tough to keep England under our 1st innings total, they know the weather and are batting to save time for the rain delays expected...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 21, 2023, 01:21:29 am
England looking good for 500+ now. Weather may help us, but a big defeat in the offing otherwise. Australia squandered its chances on that wicket, we should have posted 450.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 21, 2023, 01:22:55 am
This match is not falling into place as our top order batting line up just doesn’t deliver enough. Not helping the bowlers apply pressure when we field. England have worked us out. They look like they know what to do and when to do it. Not afraid to play an innings with the bat like it is a one day format. I have to respect that. They do not fear what the bowlers will deliver. Which isn’t great in this innings at all.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 21, 2023, 06:49:39 am
Rubbish team selection, rubbish batting, rubbish bowling and rubbish captaincy.

Time to start planning to win the fifth test and save the ashes...and there should be a few different names in that side.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 21, 2023, 07:27:24 am
We should change the name of the Squad to the NSW Test Team so it doesn't embarrass the rest of the country! ;)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 21, 2023, 07:27:50 am
This match is not falling into place as our top order batting line up just doesn’t deliver enough. Not helping the bowlers apply pressure when we field. England have worked us out. They look like they know what to do and when to do it. Not afraid to play an innings with the bat like it is a one day format. I have to respect that. They do not fear what the bowlers will deliver. Which isn’t great in this innings at all.
For the most part, the batsmen, especially the top order, has failed in every test to post a decent score.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 21, 2023, 07:55:58 am
The Green and Hazelwood selections are looking pretty dumb right now.

Marsh reverting to type - ok with bat, not up to it with the ball.  Two kind of all-rounders does not equal a test player.

Marnus batting like shyte.

Rubbish/non existent bowling plans.  MacDonald has lost me. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 21, 2023, 08:35:13 am
We’re cactus 🙁
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 21, 2023, 09:37:18 am
Bazball looks like it's going to win this game..poor team selection, poor bowling plans and a Captain who looks tired has played into the new English game style.
Just have to hope the weather saves us although I'm expecting an early declaration after more bash batting tomorrow.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 21, 2023, 10:57:15 am
Yep, pray for rain and worry about the next one. This one is gone, and we only have ourselves to blame
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 21, 2023, 11:58:08 am
For the most part, the batsmen, especially the top order, has failed in every test to post a decent score.
Compared to back in their peak days the Pommie bowling has been dead ordinary, most of our top end are getting themselves out they are not being dismissed by unplayable deliveries.

On the batting the problem is the squad is chosen and the options to the coach are greatly limited, he's got what he has got and he needs to find a way to deal with it. Blokes with big reputations but not a lot of recent consistent form.

On our bowling, in my opinion our three best options for the Pommie conditions are Nesser, Boland and Murphy (Given Lyon is out). Spinners do not need to be big turners in Pommie conditions, but you need a lot of control so that you can lock down an end and the wickets will come. It seems to be a aspect of the game completely overlooked by Cummins, who seems to think he can bounce the Poms out.

Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and delivering metronomic rubbish, hardly a smidge of speed variation among them, nothing out the back of the hand, no cutters, no slow bouncers, no knuckle balls, nothing to catch a batsmen off guard. It's like the left all their ODI and T20 skills back in India and forgot the basics of challenging a batsmen on the rampage.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 21, 2023, 01:33:27 pm
Compared to back in their peak days the Pommie bowling has been dead ordinary, most of our top end are getting themselves out they are not being dismissed by unplayable deliveries.

On the batting the problem is the squad is chosen and the options to the coach are greatly limited, he's got what he has got and he needs to find a way to deal with it. Blokes with big reputations but not a lot of recent consistent form.

On our bowling, in my opinion our three best options for the Pommie conditions are Nesser, Boland and Murphy (Given Lyon is out). Spinners do not need to be big turners in Pommie conditions, but you need a lot of control so that you can lock down an end and the wickets will come. It seems to be a aspect of the game completely overlooked by Cummins, who seems to think he can bounce the Poms out.

Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and delivering metronomic rubbish, hardly a smidge of speed variation among them, nothing out the back of the hand, no cutters, no slow bouncers, no knuckle balls, nothing to catch a batsmen off guard. It's like the left all their ODI and T20 skills back in India and forgot the basics of challenging a batsmen on the rampage.
Broad has worked on new balls to target dismissing Warner and Labourpains with great success.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 21, 2023, 03:09:16 pm
England have fired up since the Bairstow stumping incident, they have more firepower with Wood's express bowling and Woakes inclusion has been a real plus given his record in England is so good with the ball and his handy batting along with Wood has shored up their fragile tail. The whole Bairstow business has hardened their resolve ,got the crowd involved and players like Stokes and Broad really feed off that stuff and drag the other players along with them.
The Bouncer war has also backfired big time, suits Englands bazball style and some of our blokes dont like it especially key players like Head who isnt comfortable with the ball at his body. Warner should never have toured and the selectors including (Candice Warner) fecked up bigtime listening to the mates club.
Agree with Prof that McDonald isnt up to it from what I have seen and was only picked on the basis he is a soft touch compared to Langar who wanted a more disciplined approach to training and higher standards.
Lyon missing has thrown the attack out more than I expected and Cameron Green while being the 3 million dollar man in the IPL
hasnt really impressed at test level and his only century was on the flattest of Indian wickets where three spinners were being played by each team and 500 was the expected team total each innings.
I also think Pat Cummins needs a break as test skipper given his workload as our premier quick bowler and its time to look for a new captain which probably means Smith gets another turn minus the sandpaper, angle grinder or whatever else his buddy Warner has in his pocket...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 21, 2023, 03:44:40 pm
Broad has worked on new balls to target dismissing Warner and Labourpains with great success.
Personally, I think there is quite a bit of spin and psyching out going on there from Broad and other Pommies, they are getting in the head of our batsmen and it has worked.

Bazball has certainly screwed up our quick bowlers who have completely lost the plot. Excessive short rubbish, poor direction control, weak fundamentals. Other than Lyon the only other bloke who was bowling with any control was Boland and they kyboshed him, which was really just a smokescreen for crap batting not making enough runs out of the conditions.

Yesterday morning Tubby and others were rattling on about how well Australia had batted in the conditions making par, now par is looking like 700!

I've had a good look at what Broad has been doing, and other than increased use of the wobble seam it's not much at all, and it's as slow as he's ever been.

Anderson is basically the same as always, just a bit slower.

Wood is quick, but not much else of interest, he is a skiddy type bowler who gets batsmen into trouble when they are not watching the ball carefully. Really the likes of Green and Marsh should be right at home against him as they both drive on the up with very little trouble.

At the moment Woake is a mile ahead in terms of control and hazardous potential.

Losing Lyon then not picking a spinner was a huge gaff, maybe it was hubris!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 22, 2023, 01:43:17 am
Adam Gilchrist would be handy in the upper order with ability to score and score quickly. I don’t have much confidence in this current squad at all. They lack the belief in their abilities. By their current form the abilities are minimal to begin with. They are screwed trying to keep Woakes, Wood, and Broad quiet alone with Ali. The line and length of deliveries is spot on more often than not. They just need to work on their fielding. Get that right and this squad is almost unbeatable. I love their aggressive approach to everything they do. It is sad to give credit to the enemy, but I would trade their entire squad for ours without a second thought. Someone from the Aussie batting line up needs to take charge. Needs to back the ability to score. Especially rotating the strike with singles. You can’t be ultra defensive. Keep the scoreboard ticking over. Rotating the strike when you have a left and right hand batter at the crease. Unlike Warner with no idea against Woakes. Do I leave the delivery or do I play it, and get caught out chopping it onto his stumps. No confidence at all.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 22, 2023, 07:20:49 am
Warner was finished two years ago, his eye has gone and chop ons are inevitable.

Hooking is inexcusable in the scheme of the current game  -pulls are easy runs as you stay over the ball - but trying to control the higher ball is a low percentage shot....I thought we were trying to save a test not give it away?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 22, 2023, 07:38:44 am
Smith to the rescue again...not.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on July 23, 2023, 03:00:46 pm
Our batting has certainly ben disappointing this series. Smith and Khawaja did OK early, but they've done nothing since. It is taking a big individual effort, instead of good, team stuff, since the end of test #1. Not sustainable. The guys need to look at how they're getting out and what to do about it.
Selection - I could wax lyrical about that, but I don't really want to. Suffice to say that some of the decisions have been mystifying. But there have to be changes for the last test, no matter what the result. Reputations mean nothing at the pointy end; it is how you perform when the chips are down.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 23, 2023, 03:04:34 pm
Our batting has certainly ben disappointing this series. Smith and Khawaja did OK early, but they've done nothing since. It is taking a big individual effort, instead of good, team stuff, since the end of test #1. Not sustainable. The guys need to look at how they're getting out and what to do about it.
Selection - I could wax lyrical about that, but I don't really want to. Suffice to say that some of the decisions have been mystifying. But there have to be changes for the last test, no matter what the result. Reputations mean nothing at the pointy end; it is how you perform when the chips are down.
Seems to me only rain will save the Urn now. If there is no rain, what are the chances of Marsh and Green digging in and batting out the innings forcing the draw? Buckleys and none.

It may have been posted here but I read Cummins is standing down as Captain after the ashes. Who replaces him? Smith?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 23, 2023, 03:24:18 pm
Seems to me only rain will save the Urn now. If there is no rain, what are the chances of Marsh and Green digging in and batting out the innings forcing the draw? Buckleys and none.

It may have been posted here but I read Cummins is standing down as Captain after the ashes. Who replaces him? Smith?
Talk of Smith, Head or Marsh taking over ...I just have a strange feeling Marsh might even get offered the job, our version of Stokes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 23, 2023, 09:10:19 pm
WTF...Marsh captain..really!?!

Two games ago he was a passenger in the squad then again he is delivering, unlike about six blokes in the side
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 23, 2023, 09:56:33 pm
WTF...Marsh captain..really!?!

Two games ago he was a passenger in the squad then again he is delivering, unlike about six blokes in the side
Those were the options I read online in some article, Marsh has captained the Scorchers and maybe WA in shield cricket.
Had to laugh last night , umpire Wilson said no to Stokes bowling his quicks because of poor light but was wearing his sunglasses at the time and continued to wear them...😎, Been the weirdest test series I have seen...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on July 24, 2023, 01:14:15 am

It may have been posted here but I read Cummins is standing down as Captain after the ashes. Who replaces him? Smith?
As long as it isn't a pace bowler from NSW, it should be an improvement.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on July 24, 2023, 02:33:52 am
Just signs of instability in a side, when talks go about a captain standing down after a series which started well and will end on a poor note. Smith might be the only option on a temporary basis. No more options which select bowlers or wicket keepers. It has to be a batsman that has the ability to lead by example. Sure they may be a bowler on a temporary basis. This series started really well and the swing in momentum must be credit to the poms. They have done a huge turn around. Rain saves the day. They should have belted us. They are the goods.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 24, 2023, 09:52:12 am
Apart from some inept batting, unimaginative bowling, timid captaincy, predictable team selection, Bazball and the weather, I reckon the most important factor in this series was Lyon’s injury.

The GOAT would have picked up vital wickets and eked out a few more runs.  Murphy’s not in the same league and the part-timers are part-timers for good reason.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: RiverRat on July 24, 2023, 01:43:06 pm
Just signs of instability in a side, when talks go about a captain standing down after a series which started well and will end on a poor note. Smith might be the only option on a temporary basis. No more options which select bowlers or wicket keepers. It has to be a batsman that has the ability to lead by example. Sure they may be a bowler on a temporary basis. This series started really well and the swing in momentum must be credit to the poms. They have done a huge turn around. Rain saves the day. They should have belted us. They are the goods.
The recent scheduling for test matches and the desire to rest pace bowlers during a series make the choice of a pace bowler as captain a poor choice.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on July 24, 2023, 02:12:30 pm
Our batting has certainly ben disappointing this series. Smith and Khawaja did OK early, but they've done nothing since. It is taking a big individual effort, instead of good, team stuff, since the end of test #1. Not sustainable. The guys need to look at how they're getting out and what to do about it.
Selection - I could wax lyrical about that, but I don't really want to. Suffice to say that some of the decisions have been mystifying. But there have to be changes for the last test, no matter what the result. Reputations mean nothing at the pointy end; it is how you perform when the chips are down.

The first dig was embarassing.  most clubs have a fine system that if you get a start (maybe 20-odd in club cricket) and dont go on with it, you shell out $......  what about the 8 best bats in aus all getting starts and not one of them putting their head down and grinding out a score??  did the extra bat mean they all thought someone else would do it??   if they had seen off woakes and broad, and hit moeen out of the attack, that would have left a tiring wood and a past it anderson, with no stokes.  they should have made 500.  there were runs there for anyone who really wanted them.    continually getting out to soft dismissals from moeen, shows how they are going
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on July 24, 2023, 02:14:43 pm
Seems to me only rain will save the Urn now. If there is no rain, what are the chances of Marsh and Green digging in and batting out the innings forcing the draw? Buckleys and none.

It may have been posted here but I read Cummins is standing down as Captain after the ashes. Who replaces him? Smith?

smith does most of the field placings and bowler changes when Cummins is bowling, and has a big say in everything during the bowling innings... he is not without blame in these last few bowling innings.   having said that, it just goes to show that maybe you dont had the captaincy to a bloke who looks good in front of the cameras and speaks well, if he hasnt set a field since u12s
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 26, 2023, 09:47:19 am
David needs to shelve his gargantuan ego and make some runs before demanding anything.  I can remember a time when any challenge to selectors resulted in rapid and complete ostracism.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 26, 2023, 12:24:36 pm
David needs to shelve his gargantuan ego and make some runs before demanding anything.  I can remember a time when any challenge to selectors resulted in rapid and complete ostracism.
If this is actually true, and not just a media verballing somebody, then the selectors should reply challenge accepted!

In recent times, Warner has done little, he is living off the past, and it's clear to see when you watch not just his batting but his catching, reactions are slowing, balance is fading, career is as well.

As an old bloke, I can tell you when we start claiming we still can, it's already long past can't, those claims of continuance are just hubris talking!

Accept it and move on, too much money prevents sportspeople across the board from letting go, they have to be pushed! ;)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 27, 2023, 08:34:34 pm
Why the F do we persist with Starc?  Why !?!
Over this $#@ing pie chucker, can't put two balls in an over within Cooee of the right place
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 27, 2023, 08:41:39 pm
Warner was just slow on that, a real sign he is not at the standard anymore. All that strapping on his hands, how could you grip the ball?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 27, 2023, 08:50:15 pm
Yep, you're already behind the game Warner.  Rent is due champ.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 27, 2023, 08:59:34 pm
Spirit of cricket....if you smash the cover off it (Duckett) aren't pommies supposed to walk?

Yes gottim p1ss off you're out
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 27, 2023, 09:03:16 pm
Marsh is making every match count. Excellent delivery from Pat Cummins as well - big wicket!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 27, 2023, 09:22:41 pm
Yep, not a Marsh fan but his bowling was excellent and dots cause pressure.  Then Cummins found the length, ball is clearly jumping from back of a length.  Field has been better too.

Arrogant batting to be running at bowlers on a pitch doing a bit
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 27, 2023, 09:24:53 pm
You're paid to take those Carey
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 27, 2023, 09:42:19 pm
Take Starc off Pat, save your captaincy.The blokes injured, so why pick him?

You've got some explaining to do MacDonald.  I wonder about the competence of the people around the team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 27, 2023, 11:47:52 pm
And just like that, Starc produces one (and Stokes plays around it).

#Mankad Bairstow
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 28, 2023, 07:12:05 am
Yea and goes to take four and recover the day - gees he's an all or nothing type, like going all in at blackjack.  Spectacular in success and disaster
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 28, 2023, 01:19:11 pm
Yea and goes to take four and recover the day - gees he's an all or nothing type, like going all in at blackjack.  Spectacular in success and disaster

That’s what you get with Starc.  He’s our best quick bowler by far … when he’s on.

He leaves a hole in our attack when he’s off.

Warner got a start …

This should be his last test.  It’s time to move on.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 28, 2023, 04:45:40 pm
Yea and goes to take four and recover the day - gees he's an all or nothing type, like going all in at blackjack.  Spectacular in success and disaster
The trouble I have with Starc is he's on when it's downhill running, like when the pill is hooping or when the tail is at the crease.

Far far too often he gives the top order a massive kick start!

Yesterday, Starc and Hazelwood looked like pie throwers, then Cummins had a trundle and for the first couple of overs didn't look any better before all of a sudden clicking and it was the Cummins of old. He put the wind up the batsmen and Hazelwood and Marsh also benefitted by bowling tight at the other end. If it had been Starc I fear he would have let the batsmen off the hook and wasted Cummins efforts!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 28, 2023, 05:13:26 pm
That’s what you get with Starc.  He’s our best quick bowler by far … when he’s on.

He leaves a hole in our attack when he’s off.

Warner got a start …

This should be his last test.  It’s time to move on.
Still reckon he will get his goodbye glory test in Sydney vs Pakistan?,where he can bully a century vs substandard opposition and go out a hero. He was never going to make runs in England this tour as its been a graveyard for him in the past but the mates club ,weak coaching setup and unofficial chairwoman of selectors in Mrs Warner got him on the plane after bleating his case in the media. I like how he has also picked Matt Renshaw to succeed him, Victorian Marcus Harris is the incumbent backup opener but obviously he isnt drinking at the same watering hole as Warner and friends and doesnt qualify as part of the mates club.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 28, 2023, 05:21:25 pm
I like how he has also picked Matt Renshaw to succeed him, Victorian Marcus Harris is the incumbent backup opener but obviously he isnt drinking at the same watering hole as Warner and friends and doesnt qualify as part of the mates club.
I think Warner should have been done last test.

I also suspect you'll find a next generation of players who might be about to march right past the likes of Renshaw and Harris, some of course playing the back lots of NSW cricket, as usual!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 28, 2023, 05:38:37 pm
I think Warner should have been done last test.

I also suspect you'll find a next generation of players who might be about to march right past the likes of Renshaw and Harris, some of course playing the back lots of NSW cricket, as usual!
Been a bit of love for Renshaw of late, Ian Chappell has pushed up for him too....Warner did mention Hunt(SA) and Street(Qld) as well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on July 29, 2023, 05:27:21 pm
Good effort from the tail. Pity more of the top order bats can't show the same intelligence.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 29, 2023, 06:53:47 pm
Good effort from the tail. Pity more of the top order bats can't show the same intelligence.

You could substitute technique, application, concentration, doggedness, pride, and/or ability for intelligence and your comment would still apply Crash.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 30, 2023, 12:06:32 am
Big wickets there. First Stokes out to Murphy, and now Brooks to Hazelwood. We could break back into this game.

#Mankad Bairstow
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 30, 2023, 08:57:14 am
We 'll need a serious opening stand to get anywhere near the target, which will be a record.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 30, 2023, 09:39:43 am
We 'll need a serious opening stand to get anywhere near the target, which will be a record.
Think England will get up for Broad who is retiring and I'd expect Anderson to announce same ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 30, 2023, 10:37:20 am
We 'll need a serious opening stand to get anywhere near the target, which will be a record.
On paper we have the talent in the top to middle order to score the runs needed:
Warner
Uzi
Labourpains
Smith
Head
Marsh
Carey

Unfortunately, their form has been ordinary throughout the whole ashes series, especially Warner, Labourpains and Smith.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on July 30, 2023, 12:29:10 pm
I'm a bit over the NSW-centric bowling cartel.  What happened to rotations etc?  Instead we're seeing the same old tired lack of penetration bowling.

Where's Jye Richardson for example or the new Wild thing?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on July 31, 2023, 10:29:38 am
I'm a bit over the NSW-centric bowling cartel.  What happened to rotations etc?  Instead we're seeing the same old tired lack of penetration bowling.

Where's Jye Richardson for example or the new Wild thing?

Richardson is hurt....  they were deperate for him to be in the plans for this tour... he would have been amazing - 140ks outswingers in England
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on July 31, 2023, 10:30:58 am
We 'll need a serious opening stand to get anywhere near the target, which will be a record.

Maybe, just maybe, the tactic of wearing down thier attack in the first dig may be paying dividends??   was getting a bit sick of the brainwashed Pom press going on about how un-australian it was.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 31, 2023, 10:49:38 am
Couldn't work out why Stokes bowled Ali and Root so much but didn't give Wood a go till we were 0 for 100 and also only gave Woakes a few overs only too and they have been his best bowlers. Hope that continues..
The Broad show continues to roll on....no doubt it will continue in the commentary box where he will be employed to annoy Aus viewers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 31, 2023, 11:05:25 am
Couldn't work out why Stokes bowled Ali and Root so much but didn't give Wood a go till we were 0 for 100 and also only gave Woakes a few overs only too and they have been his best bowlers. Hope that continues..
They were hoping like hell that the pill would reverse, but it didn't, so they kept pushing for it to be changed but it didn't help.

In my experience the wet weather puts an end to much of the reverse swing, warm, humid and overcast for heavy air to get the maximum reverse effect, but as soon as it rains it turns to rubbish.

In India and Pakistan they'll tell you keep the pill bone dry, do not apply moisture to polish it, and keep it away from fielders with sweaty palms!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on July 31, 2023, 11:22:07 am
Couldn't work out why Stokes bowled Ali and Root so much but didn't give Wood a go till we were 0 for 100 and also only gave Woakes a few overs only too and they have been his best bowlers. Hope that continues..
The Broad show continues to roll on....no doubt it will continue in the commentary box where he will be employed to annoy Aus viewers.


Heard a few pundits say Wood is hurt.. wasnt giving 100% in his action.  Coaches all denied this.   Woakes bowled well thoguh, and should have bowled more overs - both havent played much cricket recently, had all of a sudden played 3 b2b tests.... could both just be cooked
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 31, 2023, 11:43:25 am
Heard a few pundits say Wood is hurt.. wasnt giving 100% in his action.  Coaches all denied this.   Woakes bowled well thoguh, and should have bowled more overs - both havent played much cricket recently, had all of a sudden played 3 b2b tests.... could both just be cooked
Yep...Woods pace was down to the low 140's and he didnt seem to running in with as much vigour. Woakes has probably been their most consistent bowler and beaten the bat more than the others and you could be right that they are a bit banged up after coming back from injury.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on July 31, 2023, 12:04:19 pm
What are the odds that Warner will go on to make a big score that will keep him in the team for another series?

It seems that the series has taken its toll on the English bowlers.  Will the rain delay freshen them up a bit or will our batsmen take their opportunity?  The first session should be very interesting.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on July 31, 2023, 10:29:34 pm
Well, more drama, but correct call I think. More clear cut than the Starc decision.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on August 01, 2023, 03:28:31 am
And the arch villain was on stage for the final act. Well done Stuart Broad. Congratulations England. Well deserved.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on August 01, 2023, 03:33:24 am
What an embarrassing game to watch. Like a pack of scared chickens waiting for a fox to pounce. I can’t wait for this test to be over. Absolutely no idea what to do. How are we rated as one of the top test nations in test cricket? We have been worked out by the poms. They know what to do and when to do it. Not even the rain could save us. Elite cricket players have come to AFL clubs to speak an give the team a motivational speech. Australia is playing like the Carlton football club played football 6 weeks ago. Maybe Cripps and Voss could go to the Australian cricket side and teach them a thing or two. How aggressive approach and backing a positive attitude helps winning a game. I have enjoyed more of what England have done than what Australia have done. A piss weak performance. After such a great start. Hand back the ashes. You don’t deserve them. I don’t see one player I wouldn’t swap with the English squad. One is 41 years of age and I would take him. Broad has retired and I would take him too. Our squad crumbles under pressure way too easy. The way the Carlton football side did a few games back. Need to make 4 changes to side selection at minimum. Otherwise change the captain and get some mental training. Change the attitude and game plan approach. Such a weak result in the end. We lost 2 wickets while I was typing. That tells the story. Definitely in my opinion, Australia is not a top 3 rated test side. No f@#ken way. The worst thing is to lose games to is England in the way we have after such a great start to this series. Like losing matches to Collingwood or Essendon in AFL football. We suck. Sorry for my comments. I am just being honest. Australia not Carlton. Carlton still has a good chance to see us playing finals with injury issues. More than what Australia is experiencing.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on August 01, 2023, 06:37:46 am
100 percent.  Inconsistent selection and performance.  Poor plans.

Blind faith in Warner.  Why?

So many starts batting, very few ever went on with it.  Too many soft dismissals to Ali and Root's average off spin.

Marnus and Smith stank, Head was average and Carey was very poor after the Bairstow incident.

Bowling - poor.  Too NSW centric and paid lip service to the rotation policy - Starc can't maintain effort for three tests and this was essentially a six test series.  This cost us the series IMO- bowlers were cooked after the third test.  Losing Lyon really hurt and lacked faith in Murphy until far too late.  The bowling plans were laughably amateur at best....I'd be laying this directly at Ronnie and the captain's feet and asking them why?

Series was played in a nasty, street brawl no holds barred manner, picked up by and magnified by the English press.  I didn't watch much as I didn't enjoy it and also thought the on field cricket both skills-wise and "spirit of the game" stuff was very average at best. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on September 12, 2023, 01:42:32 pm
We think our team is a rabble, take a look at the Saffies.

This is about as hard as the evidence will get against the use of quotas and diversity to the balance the ledger and improve the outcome.

In business, politics and sport you always get an argument from various apologists that diversity and quotas lead to better outcomes, but in my experience it's the dead opposite of what really happens.

Maybe, just maybe, having a nice quota and lots of diversity is more about making some people feel better with a mediocre outcome.

Just maybe, if the quotas and diversity policies survive for long enough, they will make it back to the where they were before they lost all that ground!

Surely, with and academia and politicians "working together" to resolve these issues, there are better solutions that can be arrived at than quotas, perhaps if we just rename the plan to a policy of mediocrity we won't be disappointed and it can be labelled a success! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 12, 2023, 03:41:04 pm
We think our team is a rabble, take a look at the Saffies.

This is about as hard as the evidence will get against the use of quotas and diversity to the balance the ledger and improve the outcome.

In business, politics and sport you always get an argument from various apologists that diversity and quotas lead to better outcomes, but in my experience it's the dead opposite of what really happens.

Maybe, just maybe, having a nice quota and lots of diversity is more about making some people feel better with a mediocre outcome.

Just maybe, if the quotas and diversity policies survive for long enough, they will make it back to the where they were before they lost all that ground!

Surely, with and academia and politicians "working together" to resolve these issues, there are better solutions that can be arrived at than quotas, perhaps if we just rename the plan to a policy of mediocrity we won't be disappointed and it can be labelled a success! :o
Saffies have no money, they are sacrificing test cricket for short format cricket where they can make a rand or two.
Graham Smith who is now their cricket boss said none of the local companies will sponsor cricket in SA and Indian owners of the IPL teams now sponsor their main 20/20 comp.
Agree on the quota situation, it has destroyed their test lineup and they are no longer the fearsome team they were when Smith was captain and they had the best players in the world. Their better players have also been lured to England over the years and they are now a C grade lineup who if you look at the fixturing are barely playing any test cricket over the next few years except vs the other lesser countries. The success of bazball has further ruined test cricket and I can see 4 day test matches in the future and more short format games and traditional long format test cricket will disappear.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 09, 2023, 03:10:12 pm
After winning over some fans Mitch Marsh has pretty much undone all his earlier good work, with a handful of deliveries and a dropped catch! :o

What made it worse for some fans, and possible for a team-mate or two, it looks like Marsh is a nervous laugh / smile type, grinning from ear to ear shortly after dropping a pudding. We realise some people cannot help this behaviour, but it doesn't help!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 13, 2023, 12:40:13 pm
Still waiting for Stoinis to actually do something, and the continued over-reliance on an over rated pace bowling group baffles me.

No catch is easy, but for a professional the one Marsh dropped was close to unforgiveable. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 13, 2023, 01:20:52 pm
The selectors keep changing the fringe players, but in reality it's the NSW core group that hasn't delivered any consistency for last two months.

The likes of Warner, Smith, Marnus, Cummins, Hazelwood keep bobbing up with the odd gem which just enough to hold a spot, but it's one out of 3 or 4 innings and that is not nearly enough to win a World Cup. At the moment we have no 24x7 in form player.

Media piling on guys like Zampa, but Zampa is only as good as whoever bowls at the other end and if the team scores enough runs for the leggy to freely attack.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on October 13, 2023, 01:30:33 pm
Apart from our bowling, fielding and batting last night we were pretty good.

That was putrid.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 13, 2023, 03:21:36 pm
Still waiting for Stoinis to actually do something, and the continued over-reliance on an over rated pace bowling group baffles me.

No catch is easy, but for a professional the one Marsh dropped was close to unforgiveable. 
Saffies are full on a short format team now, have made test cricket secondary and are a better outfit than before.
But that doesnt take away from how poor we were in the field and its starts with captain who set some strange fields based on sending the opposition in and then going defensive when he should have been looking to attack and get early wickets.
If DeKock fires then the Saffies usually win and it was paramount to attack and remove him quickly...agree on Stoinis, tarzan that plays like Jane too often...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 13, 2023, 03:23:23 pm
Many of our squad are past the Use-by-Date, it's a World Cup too many for some of them, they look upset at the efforts but otherwise disinterested in working to make stuff better!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 13, 2023, 04:11:59 pm
100% the NSW core -starting with the captain - need a shake up
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 13, 2023, 04:54:33 pm
100% the NSW core -starting with the captain - need a shake up
I thought the rot was on display when the dropped Carey.

Not that Carey's form has been good lately, but he has a future and Warner doesn't.

So I think they should have dropped Warner, moved Carey to opening, and still could have brought in Abbott or Inglis.

Also Marsh, has gone from T20 Hero to ODI Zero faster than I can down a Pale Ale!

For our squad this World Cup has the feel of being one last junket!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on October 13, 2023, 05:03:02 pm
Is it too late for this mob to get on the same plane back to OZ as the Wallabies ?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 18, 2023, 01:12:46 pm
I feel so sad for Warner, ............................. not!

Whether the call was out or not should make no difference, the pill only has to flick the stumps and generally the bails will fall, as far as I can tell the way the current rule is written it is unbiased, sometimes it favours the bowler, sometimes it favours the batsmen!

Warner is trying to bully officials into the running with the Batsmen biased version. He wants to be careful because when he shoots off his mouth he might well bully the ruling body into a change, but they could easily opt for the bowler biased version of DRS and eliminate all those occasions when the batsmen benefitted from the umpire's call!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on October 18, 2023, 01:29:13 pm
Interesting to see the Netherlands defeat South Africa! The Saffies were flying, and now they've been grounded.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 18, 2023, 04:19:34 pm
Interesting to see the Netherlands defeat South Africa! The Saffies were flying, and now they've been grounded.
The Saffies have been highly variable at best in recent seasons, it's why nobody rates them.

Based on recent form some might claim the game against us was the outlier not losing to Netherland.

Quotas bring a whole new level of mediocrity, stick that in your Voice and smoke it!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on October 18, 2023, 09:40:54 pm
The Saffies have been highly variable at best in recent seasons, it's why nobody rates them.

Based on recent form some might claim the game against us was the outlier not losing to Netherland.

Quotas bring a whole new level of mediocrity, stick that in your Voice and smoke it!
They have a talented team, the coaching hasnt been great, as you say the selection policy is flawed due to quota's and they dont have the money to run a decent domestic comp unlike back in the old days when they had the Currie Cup and Rhodesia was part of that comp giving the Saffies access to more talent given Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe.
I'd hate to include South Africa in the same league as Pakistan, India etc when it comes to betting issues but given Hanse Cronje was as bent as an S Pipe I would never place a bet on a Saffies team even if they were playing Mont Albert 3rds....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 26, 2023, 11:50:23 pm
England's Bazball Heroes have turned into a puddle of muck.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 27, 2023, 01:48:54 pm
Hasn't stopped the whinging fat ginga f.... From gobbing off.  Again. 

He might end up with 150 tests and whatever to his name, but over here he'll only be remembered as a dopey flog.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on October 27, 2023, 02:05:29 pm
Waiting to hear the outrage over last night's run out of Rashid...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on October 27, 2023, 03:09:23 pm
Waiting to hear the outrage over last night's run out of Rashid...
Actually, I thought that should be not out.

The reason being the keeper's first movement was to walking away from the stumps to throw the ball to the field, then he turns his head and sees the non-striker out of the crease before throwing the ball, in my day that would have been ruled a dead ball.

I doubt the rules have changed, the stumping or runout attempt is supposed to be your first action, you can't fake the batsmen into leaving the crease, and the keeper can't toss the ball to a slip or other fielder and have them then decide to runout the batsmen.

England are lost, they won't and can't complain in the Sub-Continent because nobody is listening!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on October 27, 2023, 05:27:04 pm
I agree LP.  I was surprised at the commentary.

I think they have updated the rules so that you can't deceive the batsman with where the ball is (eg pretend to mis-field, batsmen run and get run out because fielder had the ball).

There was definitely lag and disinterest in the play by the keeper.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 28, 2023, 08:17:58 pm
12 off the first over from the pie chucker, followed by utter rubbish from Hazelwood.  Time to give others a go.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 28, 2023, 08:36:58 pm
NZ worked out that taking the pace off the ball worked brilliantly on this deck but the three stooges from NSW are clueless.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on October 28, 2023, 09:07:26 pm
Not sure if it matters too much tonight.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on October 28, 2023, 09:35:50 pm
Just take the pie chucker off.
Check the betting slips....there's something stinky about this game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on November 05, 2023, 12:56:45 pm
Interesting to see how things can change in cricket. Between 2015 and 2019 the Poms put a a lot of work into their white ball programs and reaped the rewards with the 2019 1-day title and the most recent 20-20 title. However, since then, they have supposedly concentrated on red ball cricket. They are now stone cold motherless last and would be no certainty to beat Bangladesh.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 05, 2023, 04:43:10 pm
Interesting to see how things can change in cricket. Between 2015 and 2019 the Poms put a a lot of work into their white ball programs and reaped the rewards with the 2019 1-day title and the most recent 20-20 title. However, since then, they have supposedly concentrated on red ball cricket. They are now stone cold motherless last and would be no certainty to beat Bangladesh.
Money has helped their decline, Stokes won't sign a long term test cricket deal because he wants the extra dough white ball cricket offers in particular the IPL and the Hundred. A lot of them are getting older and this will be a pattern that will hold England back, bazball produces short format players not test cricketers..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on November 05, 2023, 09:16:18 pm
Money has helped their decline, Stokes won't sign a long term test cricket deal because he wants the extra dough white ball cricket offers in particular the IPL and the Hundred. A lot of them are getting older and this will be a pattern that will hold England back, bazball produces short format players not test cricketers..

Indeed. Not a lot of new blood there. Mind you, we also appear very light on for good young players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on November 06, 2023, 10:10:17 pm
Bangladesh - what a way to kill cricket - you dheads.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on November 07, 2023, 08:36:39 pm
Bangladesh - what a way to kill cricket - you dheads.


Not one of the smartest things they could have done. But it does show how desperate they were for a win. Not sure anyone else would try it, though. But then, I thought that of the mankad.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on November 08, 2023, 10:20:03 am
The Big Show!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on November 08, 2023, 04:57:02 pm
Pretty amazing - I was on a zoom call but had a fair bit of attention on cricinfo.  Once they got down to under a run a ball, it was all over, providing that Cummins could hold up his end - seemed to just have to navigate the last ball or two of an over.

If the Aussies actually put a whole game together we might give India a scare.  I think we play SA in the semi - bat first make them chase.  Then India in the final - bowl first and make them defend and we're a small chance.  India are pretty ominous.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 08, 2023, 05:02:10 pm
It was a terrific effort in trying conditions, but outside of Rashid Khan I'm not sure the opposition was all that it was cut out to be.

I'd say given the opposition Stokes innings was probably better, but I wouldn't want to live on the difference because what Maxwell's innings lacked in opposition it made up for in trying conditions.

I never got to see it but Viv Richards made a huge ton against England at Old Trafford that is legendary. I saw Viv Richards more than once in the WSC days.

Ian Chappell describes Barry Richards as devastatingly good and talked about a one day innings that he thought was the best he'd ever seen, but I believe it was a practise game or not an official fixture.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 08, 2023, 05:07:39 pm
If the Aussies actually put a whole game together we might give India a scare.  I think we play SA in the semi - bat first make them chase.  Then India in the final - bowl first and make them defend and we're a small chance.  India are pretty ominous.
Agreed, I thought the bowling and fielding was off yesterday, the heat seemed to get to a few of them or maybe it was the pollution.

I see Mumbai just recorded the worst day of air pollution ever recorded. (In the absence of extraneous causes like severe bush fires and the like, hard to imagine the top Indonesia for burn off pollution!) :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 08, 2023, 07:08:35 pm
It was a terrific effort in trying conditions, but outside of Rashid Khan I'm not sure the opposition was all that it was cut out to be.

I'd say given the opposition Stokes innings was probably better, but I wouldn't want to live on the difference because what Maxwell's innings lacked in opposition it made up for in trying conditions.

I never got to see it but Viv Richards made a huge ton against England at Old Trafford that is legendary. I saw Viv Richards more than once in the WSC days.

Ian Chappell describes Barry Richards as devastatingly good and talked about a one day innings that he thought was the best he'd ever seen, but I believe it was a practise game or not an official fixture.
Gary Sobers 254 for the World Eleven at the MCG.....some bloke called Bradman reckons it was the best he has seen on Aus soil...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FeMcAuA5GM
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on November 19, 2023, 09:37:49 pm
Geez Kohli was that the slowest walk off in history ?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on November 19, 2023, 09:47:08 pm
Geez Kohli was that the slowest walk off in history ?
Indias chances disappeared with him....and he knows it
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on November 19, 2023, 09:53:02 pm
Indias chances disappeared with him....and he knows it

The crowd knew it…
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on November 20, 2023, 09:09:46 am
Given the degree of difficulty playing India in India and all that entails, that was a magnificent win.

Good all round effort from the bowlers and outstanding batting from Head and Marnus 👏
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on November 20, 2023, 10:09:49 am
I went to bed after 23 overs of our batting as Head and Marnus didn't look too bothered.

Magnificent fielding and bowling by the Aussies.

India paid the price for a few of things:
 - trying to get a pitch that would suit them more than the Aussies
 - having a very long tail meant that set batsmen still couldn't go after the bowling
 - changing their bowling order - Shami at first change had been more than doing his job, as had Siraj opening.
 - not being under pressure at anytime during the tournament
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on November 20, 2023, 11:22:01 am
I didn't think the Aussies could do it, not on the way we had been playing. But that performance was one for the ages. I've never heard an Indian crowd silent before, and God knows there weren't many Aussies to make a noise.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: bratblue on November 20, 2023, 11:49:09 am
Imagine having a major cricket ground called the Scott Morrison Ground or the Tony Abbot. We would deserve to be flogged.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 20, 2023, 12:50:26 pm
But that performance was one for the ages. I've never heard an Indian crowd silent before, and God knows there weren't many Aussies to make a noise.
On that crowd and it's dread.

It just goes to show you how much impact a crowd can have. You could see that as the crowd silence grew the tension on the likes of Kohli and KL Rahul also grew.

It's why as a supporter base when we role up in numbers we have be loud and support our team unequivocally from the first bounce to the final siren. Get too silent and the team will pick up on the tension, it's a primal empathic/sympathetic response to emotion that the players have little control over.

In the Prelim, when the Bluebagger Army went quiet, it played right into the Lion's hand!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on November 20, 2023, 03:51:53 pm
Watched half last night, and half before work this morning. Which was made easy with the kayo FF button. Completed in 1/3 the time.

Aussies went on a team early and got into the exact same position that India was in when we both got 3 down.
Difference between us and them, we kept the scoreboard ticking over. Best part of that was, it shut up the crowd.
The ability for the aussies to find the singles and rotate the strike played them into form which allowed them to hit the boundaries when they were there to be hit.

India i think had 1 boundary in about 30 overs....and were not hitting enough singles.

Intelligent cricket all round from the aussies.
Constant rotations of the bowlers meant India were always on the back foot and not getting comfortable and couldn't rotate the strike like they needed.
Great field placings and awesome effort by the aussies in the field saved us 30 runs on the night....which was a big deal.

Never have i seen such a huge, 1-eyed crowd at any sporting event ever......and to silence them was the hardest thing to do, and we managed to do it....and it won us the game.

When you have 0-2 to start, going 9-0 from there to take the whole thing against the undefeated home crowd favourites is nothing but a fairytale.
This one happened to come true.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 20, 2023, 05:20:47 pm
Fielding was excellent and led to frustration from the Indians who started well but couldnt get the boundaries they needed and tried to force the ball which led to their downfall. Indians performance at the end of the game not hanging around for the presentation was a real dummy spit and if we had done same there would have been an outcry and calls for fines etc etc....
Good losers and humble they are not and seeing them miss out again after their test championship debacle was good for the game imho and maybe if they lost the rockstar swagger and image, prepared their home wickets in a fair and reasonable manner they might get some reward.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on November 20, 2023, 06:55:06 pm
Masterclass in planning and then execution.  Kudos Cummins and MacDonald et al.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on November 20, 2023, 09:01:50 pm
Masterclass in planning and then execution.  Kudos Cummins and MacDonald et al.
Indeed. Kept their cards close to the chest and managed to do what they planned. Doesn't happen often.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on November 20, 2023, 09:31:28 pm
Biggest upset in World Cup History
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on November 21, 2023, 10:22:45 am
Biggest upset in World Cup History
Probably.
I can't see us winning any of the 20:20's: we won't have recovered from the celebrations.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on November 21, 2023, 10:55:24 am
What a stupid piece of scheduling - a World cup that goes for ever, then the finalists will (not that this was known) will play 5 T20s less than a week later.

India won't play a first XI and Australia probably can't be stuffed either - Matthew Wade Captain?

When too much cricket is too much cricket.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on November 21, 2023, 07:50:25 pm
(https://scontent.fmel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/402096494_669135265341214_5801857828488167255_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=qosBP1D8oEUAX-JVUy3&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel3-1.fna&oh=00_AfAC116exL23qYjpfODZvef-kl_TK7JVvQ9tG3GR_2Dvow&oe=6560A864)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on November 22, 2023, 01:56:41 pm
Masterclass in planning and then execution.  Kudos Cummins and MacDonald et al.

100% - took some balls to bowl first, when it would have been panned if India made 350, but they did it anyway.   Amazing the effect the (Stewie) Dew had on the result.   Early in the tourney, Zampa was being pulverised as he tried to bowl with a wet ball.  Then when the shoe is on the other foot, Jadeja and Kuldeep didnt take a wicket between them.  Looks like a no-brainer of a decision - bowl first in order neutralise their spinners under the dewy conditions, but not an easy decision to live with if it doesnt come off  (and if you dont field like demons to back it up)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 22, 2023, 02:00:16 pm
First class example of the hypocrisy of India's BCCI, happy to stir up the crowds causing vitriol and even death threats one day, the next day they turn the Aussie Hero into an IPL Millionaire!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on November 22, 2023, 03:01:04 pm
Now forgive me if this is a bad observation, but as someone who doesnt really care about cricket, there has been very little fan fare about this world cup in the Aussie Media.

Is it my perception thats false, or is this an accurate description of whats happened? 

My gut tells me its about the one day 50 over format being on the nose, but I really have no idea. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on November 23, 2023, 12:14:05 pm
Depends where you're looking and what you pay attention to - I saw plenty of coverage.

 The only reason I knew about the AFL drafts was because of this forum,  but  I can only tell you #1 pick outside the Blues. I don't really care or pay attention to it.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on November 23, 2023, 12:23:29 pm
Now forgive me if this is a bad observation, but as someone who doesnt really care about cricket, there has been very little fan fare about this world cup in the Aussie Media.

Is it my perception thats false, or is this an accurate description of whats happened? 

My gut tells me its about the one day 50 over format being on the nose, but I really have no idea. 

The Age was full of the cricket up to and after the final Thry.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 23, 2023, 12:43:22 pm
While India remain interested in 50 over cricket it will survive, as soon as they lose interest it will be over........
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on November 23, 2023, 02:32:55 pm
The interesting thing is the rise of the 100 version, bizarre as it seems the game is getting shorter, probably says something about attention spans of modern youth.

Personally, watching a lifetime of 50 over is worth the wait for what we saw from Maxwell the other night, that is once in a lifetime stuff!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 23, 2023, 04:12:22 pm
The interesting thing is the rise of the 100 version, bizarre as it seems the game is getting shorter, probably says something about attention spans of modern youth.

Personally, watching a lifetime of 50 over is worth the wait for what we saw from Maxwell the other night, that is once in a lifetime stuff!
Think you will find its more to do with being able to fit into prime time slots on pay for view....you can get more games in too and have less down time in between games.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on November 23, 2023, 04:24:30 pm
The Age was full of the cricket up to and after the final Thry.

Was thinking had we won the world cup or a title in any sport, generally it would get more attention.

Thought maybe sandpaper gate had something to do with it.  Cricket has had lots of negative press recently and this would be a positive.  Maybe I just block it out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 23, 2023, 04:46:07 pm
Was thinking had we won the world cup or a title in any sport, generally it would get more attention.

Thought maybe sandpaper gate had something to do with it.  Cricket has had lots of negative press recently and this would be a positive.  Maybe I just block it out.
Im the opposite Thry, I have no general interest in cricket but when The Ashes are being contested and one day WC is on, I  always watch the Aussies play. I am the same with Rugby League where I only watch the SOO games and Soccer where I only watch the WC (any game), any Socceroos and Matildas games.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 11, 2023, 07:33:51 pm
test starting on Thursday and the line-up is looking a little used. Lots of guys over 30, and no sign of list development.
As for the Paks, expect anything. They are amazingly difficult to predict.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 11, 2023, 07:35:50 pm
As for the Paks, expect anything. They are amazingly difficult to predict.
They play erratically in a style that is a dead set result of being borderline homeless, but I suspect given recent weather trends around the country they are in for a world of green top pain!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 11, 2023, 08:19:22 pm
Pakis and Windies will be slaughtered..if they can make the tests go 4-5 days it will be a miracle.
Test cricket other than that between the big three teams is finished....
Pakis wont even be able to fix games as they are not good enough apart from when they are on their own dust bowls...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 15, 2023, 03:44:10 pm
As expected not much interest in this test series vs Pakis with day one attracting 16k only in Perth. The media are saying its backlash for CA sacking local hero Langar as coach but imho its more about the lack of competitive cricket from two sub par teams in Pakistan and the West Indies. Warner making his 160 odd had more to do with the sub standard pie throwers the Paki's have brought out here and the fielding was sub district 4ths standard after coming back from the pub...
You cant bring two dud teams out to Aus and try and construct a summer of cricket around such non competitive opposition....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 15, 2023, 04:25:57 pm
The media are saying its backlash for CA sacking local hero Langar as coach but imho its more about the lack of competitive cricket from two sub par teams in Pakistan and the West Indies.
Agreed, the problem is modern media is neither professional or impartial, they all run with hidden agendas.

Let's summarise 16K at the fancy stadium;

- Opposition Pakistan, ordinary squad, as a team they are vagabonds playing 5 good minutes here and there. Net interest 0%.

- Warner, many great batting records, mostly against spuds, might be forgiven but not forgotten. Outside of the NSW Cricket mafia most will be happy to see him gone! Net Interest 0%!

- Mitch Marsh, Langer has painted him as Australia's most hated cricketer, nobody believes that, but possibly the most privileged maybe behind Warner. Public Interest 0%, even in his home state!

- Perth population majority Saffie, they'll get more when QDK roles up to play a game with the Renegades! Interest in Aus v Pak 10%(Background radio noise!)

- Josh Inglis kyboshed by Carey, the shock for me was Inglis getting a game ahead of Carey but maybe there is some WA backlash. Interest 10%

- Starc, Hazelwood, pass lack of interest incalculably low, bring on the wild thing!

- Lyon, media has him retiring which surprised Lyon, if he was retiring interest would be 100%, but he isn't and nobody cares what he does against Pak! It'll be like paying to see Godzilla destroy a Coles cold roast chicken, not even the risk of a burn!

@ElwoodBlues1‍ PS: (Sorry for the late edit.) Last night the missus put on the test cricket for me after dinner, I asked her to change the channel to re-runs of Friends! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 15, 2023, 04:41:30 pm
Agreed, the problem is modern media is neither professional or impartial, they all run with hidden agendas.

Let's summarise 16K at the fancy stadium;

- Opposition Pakistan, ordinary squad, as a team they are vagabonds playing 5 good minutes here and there. Net interest 0%.

- Warner, many great batting records, mostly against spuds, might be forgiven but not forgotten. Outside of the NSW Cricket mafia most will be happy to see him gone! Net Interest 0%!

- Mitch Marsh, Langer has painted him as Australia's most hated cricketer, nobody believes that, but possibly the most privileged maybe behind Warner. Public Interest 0%, even in his home state!

- Perth population majority Saffie, they'll get more when QDK roles up to play a game with the Renegades! Interest in Aus v Pak 10%(Background radio noise!)

- Josh Inglis kyboshed by Carey, the shock for me was Inglis getting a game ahead of Carey but maybe there is some WA backlash. Interest 10%

- Starc, Hazelwood, pass lack of interest incalculably low, bring on the wild thing!

- Lyon, media has him retiring which surprised Lyon, if he was retiring interest would be 100%, but he isn't and nobody cares what he does against Pak! It'll be like paying to see Godzilla destroy a Coles cold roast chicken, not even the risk of a burn!

@ElwoodBlues1‍ PS: (Sorry for the late edit.) Last night the missus put on the test cricket for me after dinner, I asked her to change the channel to re-runs of Friends! :o
I couldnt watch it.....the Pakis are such a dodgy team you dont know whether they are on the take or just hopeless.
In Aus its an honour to be captain of your country, in Pakistan its a cross to carry until they put you out of your misery.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 15, 2023, 04:51:21 pm
I couldnt watch it.....
I don't blame you, how many drops in those mighty innings, can you imagine if opposition dropped Bob Simpson so often, he might still be batting?

Seriously, and I do mean seriously not joking or taking the piss, I reckon they could tie my good arm behind my back, and lash at least 3 of my arthritic fingers together on the free hand, and I'd still be a better chance of taking some catches than the Pakistan squad! Actually I am taking the piss, out of Pakistan, but the truth hurts!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on December 15, 2023, 11:28:39 pm
I think the crowd sizes are pretty good.
 - workers are flat out leading up to Christmas and the holidays - couldn't imagine taking a day off to watch cricket during a work day atm
 - not all schools are out
 -Getting sorted for Christmas is a higher priority.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 16, 2023, 04:39:11 pm
Tired of excuses for Starc....if you can't bowl at a test standard consistently, then time to try somebody else.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 16, 2023, 05:46:39 pm
Tired of excuses for Starc....if you can't bowl at a test standard consistently, then time to try somebody else.
He plays for the right State, the players now have the easy push over coaching staff they wanted and all his mates are in the same team.Its a closed shop, no outsiders allowed in, you can make a squillion runs in shield cricket or take wickets every game but it doesnt matter...see Neser, see Bancroft . You would have thought this was the test to play the hometown kid Morris on the track he knows and in front of his family and fans vs average opposition who would have been hating facing 150km deliveries with the bounce and lift in that track.
Khawaja can disappear too if he wants to bring politics into cricket, its not a podium for his political views, its a place you go to enjoy a game of cricket away from all that stuff and where everyone gets along and is there for the same reason and thats to enjoy the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 16, 2023, 07:06:13 pm
Typical Warner. Hundred or bust.  How you going to talk out of this one Candice?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 17, 2023, 07:05:36 am
Khawaja can disappear too if he wants to bring politics into cricket, its not a podium for his political views, its a place you go to enjoy a game of cricket away from all that stuff and where everyone gets along and is there for the same reason and thats to enjoy the game.
Whilst I agree, I have to ask why they allowed the players to take a knee in support of Black Lives Matter, it seems inconsistent to me.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 17, 2023, 09:50:00 am
Whilst I agree, I have to ask why they allowed the players to take a knee in support of Black Lives Matter, it seems inconsistent to me.
Fair point , I don't want any political messages, banners, speeches, knees etc at cricket games and I don't want that stuff in my country outside Parliament house or clogging my main streets or have to read or see it on players boots, bats, hats whatever.
Cricket has always transcended politics, skin colour, religious differences etc and that's how it needs to remain.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on December 17, 2023, 09:52:08 am
Fair point , I don't want any political messages, banners, speeches, knees etc at cricket games and I don't want that stuff in my country outside Parliament house or clogging my main streets or have to read or see it on players boots, bats, hats whatever.
Cricket has always transcended politics, skin colour, religious differences etc and that's how it needs to remain.

Remind me why south africa was banned for so long?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 17, 2023, 10:13:39 am
Remind me why south africa was banned for so long?
How did that workout how's South African cricket going? It's new sponsors/owners are the same who own the IPL...politics destroyed the game over there. The local  white business owners won't invest in the game ....see Graeme Smiths views on the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 17, 2023, 10:30:47 am
Remind me why south africa was banned for so long?

"Cricket diplomacy" is the use of cricket to strengthen or weaken the relationships between cricket playing nations and has been used constantly since international cricket matches began.

There are myriad examples apart from South Africa's apartheid ban; the omission of Basil D’Oliveira from a South African tour after the SA PM threatened to ban the England team, the inclusion of Afghanistan, the boycott of Afghanistan by Australian cricketers earlier this year, the cancellation of Zimbabwe's 2009 tour of England, India-Pakistan matches, Narendra Modi hosting Albo at the former's stadium, the Indian team wearing army caps, "taking the knee", Moeen Ali wearing a "save Gaza" wristband in 2014, Henry Olonga and Andy Flower's protest against Mugabe, South African players walking off in protest against apartheid, Pat Cummins calling for UN aid for Sri Lanka, and many more ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on December 17, 2023, 10:35:22 am
How did that workout how's South African cricket going? It's new sponsors/owners are the same who own the IPL...politics destroyed the game over there. The local  white business owners won't invest in the game ....see Graeme Smiths views on the game.

Quote
Cricket has always transcended politics, skin colour, religious differences etc and that's how it needs to remain.
Simply, bollocks.

Don't care about the latest stuff that kicked off this discussion. But your statement is flat out wrong.
DJC providing some other examples, but i think the South African ban is about as obvious an exception in the history of world sports.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2023, 01:20:08 pm
Hey Candice, he can't even slog .... shush!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2023, 12:08:07 pm
The commentary keep talking Starc up like he's bowling grenades, but Pak are 8/246 and Starc is o/62, then we hear over and over he's the top dollar in the IPL.

In the meantime we keep watching him bowl left and right wide of the stumps while the tail end belt him around the ground, so the team complain about the ball. No such problems for Cummins or Hazelwood.

We'll good luck to the IPL, let's give the next kid a chance while the likes of Starc and Warner build a pension fund at India's expense!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2023, 12:15:58 pm
Starc is bowling like crap - and has for some time.  I'd be playing Morris next test because Starc's not contributing enough.  Seriously, Paddy can't bowl him versus the tail, he's too expensive.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2023, 12:40:54 pm
Starc is great in his match winning moments, but in-between he is too costly, when things aren't in his favour he struggles.

I was pleasantly surprised in India, he seemed more focussed, but back here at home he is back to his old ways. We should be crushing this Pakistan team, instead Starc was keeping them in the game every time Cummins or Hazelwood tired. I said to some mates yesterday they would have been better off bowling Marsh or Head, and that really says something.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2023, 01:46:35 pm
This game could be over by tea.

All playing these has-beens has done is teach Pakistan that if they maintain the effort we'll collapse like a house of cards, now we see the true cost of those cheap runs that Starc gives up!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: kruddler on December 28, 2023, 02:13:07 pm
This game could be over by tea.

All playing these has-beens has done is teach Pakistan that if they maintain the effort we'll collapse like a house of cards, now we see the true cost of those cheap runs that Starc gives up!
Don't count your chickens.

Sure, its a very poor start, but have you known an Australian side to roll over and give up? Pakis will be batting last, chasing our 2nd innings total + 50-odd, plenty to happen from here.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2023, 02:36:41 pm
And I'm over Ponting thrashing the Pakis, Aamir came on a leaked runs and Ponting flogged him for letting the pressure off, didn't Ponting watch Starc?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2023, 04:35:13 pm
Can't bag a sacred cow LP.  But apparently it's the best attack since whenever.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 29, 2023, 02:39:51 pm
Time to break up the NSW bowling quartet....Cummins and Lyon can't carry the other two forever. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 29, 2023, 08:45:09 pm
Not a bad effort from Pat Cummins; a tenfa!

I sometimes think that his captaincy is lacklustre and/or unimaginative but that was a captain’s bowling performance.

The much-maligned Mitchell Starc did OK too.  I don’t really understand the criticism he cops.  Wasn’t he the Australian player of the recent Ashes series?

It was interesting to read that he was unhappy with his action in the Perth Test and had a net session after play to sort it out. 

If the Pakistanis held a couple of catches, it could have been a very different game …
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 30, 2023, 03:00:18 pm
Not a bad effort from Pat Cummins; a tenfa!

I sometimes think that his captaincy is lacklustre and/or unimaginative but that was a captain’s bowling performance.

The much-maligned Mitchell Starc did OK too.  I don’t really understand the criticism he cops.  Wasn’t he the Australian player of the recent Ashes series?

It was interesting to read that he was unhappy with his action in the Perth Test and had a net session after play to sort it out. 

If the Pakistanis held a couple of catches, it could have been a very different game …
From an absolute layman's point of view (which I am), it seems to me the Aussies manage to win games using a "whole of team" mentality. One or two bowlers or one batsmen don't dominate, others seem to pick up the slack when needed or hold up an end. It's weird to me but they just seem to find a way. Cummins may well be a very underrated captain and some of the blokes who don't seem to do much actually do plenty.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 31, 2023, 10:33:01 am
100 percent correct, its a collective effort.
High level cricket relies upon having the skill sets to execute plans, and that's the problem I have with Starc.  Part of that is sustained pressure, and he releases it too often by bowling junk.  Sure, he gets wickets with Jaffas and that's a legitimate approach to taking wickets, but he seemingly doesn't worry about the other rubbish and that hurts the collective bowling effort.  He is also deadly when conditions suit (eg the night test Adelaide) but so often on flat decks he's old rope.  I thought he was a highlights package bowler in the ashes (images of him getting carted) and was staggered when he received a gong.  In the two most recent home series vs. India he shouldn't have played the last games, he was below par and we lost both. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on December 31, 2023, 11:25:42 am
But that’s also the dice they (selectors and captain) roll.
“You get wickets and you over there, you get runs”
The balance has tipped to attack, dig in, graft, occupy for batsmen and contain, limit and choke for bowlers are out of favour.

Footy is similar, you run not only to create an opportunity for your teammates but to hurt your direct opponent.
How many touches you get is largely irrelevant.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2023, 04:33:54 pm
100 percent correct, its a collective effort.
High level cricket relies upon having the skill sets to execute plans, and that's the problem I have with Starc.  Part of that is sustained pressure, and he releases it too often by bowling junk.  Sure, he gets wickets with Jaffas and that's a legitimate approach to taking wickets, but he seemingly doesn't worry about the other rubbish and that hurts the collective bowling effort.  He is also deadly when conditions suit (eg the night test Adelaide) but so often on flat decks he's old rope.  I thought he was a highlights package bowler in the ashes (images of him getting carted) and was staggered when he received a gong.  In the two most recent home series vs. India he shouldn't have played the last games, he was below par and we lost both.
I suspect the CA wear this because if they don't they will further kill Test Cricket, the only thing that even gave the Pakis a sniff was Starc letting them off the hook with 90% pie chucking.

But that might be the trick for him, because somewhere in the remaining 10% is an unplayable delivery when conditions suit and when he is switched on, you just have to wear the rest. It's that last point that is the most burring, because often the pie chucking seems attitude based not a result of the conditions or pressure, it's like he switches off and body language exposes a Laissez-faire approach, I assert that is what is most grating to cricket die hards.

We grew up watching blokes like Sobers, Lillee, Ambrose, Garner, Willis, Hadlee give batsmen nothing, the idea of a half-ar5ed spell was anathema to them, they were dirty on just releasing one bad delivery. Not only did you have to survive, but getting runs off them was like growing algae on a rock for a daily feed!

Now in context look at the batting records tumble, can you imagine if blokes that did dominate like Richards, Simpson, Walters or Border were batting now getting 2 or 3 lose pills an over or having a Cummins type try to bounce them out on the modern pitches, pitches that look like relative batting paradise compared to the 60s, 70s or 80s?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 31, 2023, 06:55:12 pm
I suspect the CA wear this because if they don't they will further kill Test Cricket, the only thing that even gave the Pakis a sniff was Starc letting them off the hook with 90% pie chucking.

But that might be the trick for him, because somewhere in the remaining 10% is an unplayable delivery when conditions suit and when he is switched on, you just have to wear the rest. It's that last point that is the most burring, because often the pie chucking seems attitude based not a result of the conditions or pressure, it's like he switches off and body language exposes a Laissez-faire approach, I assert that is what is most grating to cricket die hards.

We grew up watching blokes like Sobers, Lillee, Ambrose, Garner, Willis, Hadlee give batsmen nothing, the idea of a half-ar5ed spell was anathema to them, they were dirty on just releasing one bad delivery. Not only did you have to survive, but getting runs off them was like growing algae on a rock for a daily feed!

Now in context look at the batting records tumble, can you imagine if blokes that did dominate like Richards, Simpson, Walters or Border were batting now getting 2 or 3 lose pills an over or having a Cummins type try to bounce them out on the modern pitches, pitches that look like relative batting paradise compared to the 60s, 70s or 80s?

When you read about him doing a net session after play because he was unhappy with his action, you know that his attitude is spot on.

I reckon Starc is more like Lee or Thommo than the bowlers you mentioned.  Even when his radar is a bit off, there's a good chance that his next ball will do some damage.

And the question remains, how was he Australian player of the last Ashes series if he was chucking pies?  Perhaps because he was the leading wicket taker ...

Starc has 342 wickets from 84 tests at an average of 27.53, marginally better than Mitch Johnson, Lee and Thommo and is ranked among the best Australian left arm quicks. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 03, 2024, 10:40:13 am
The Voice of Cricket just now, “Another wicket for Mitchell Starc.  What a star for Australia!”

Interesting if brief discussion of Starc’s bowling by Jim Maxwell and Stuart Clark.  Basically, Clark maintains that there’s too much reliance on Starc and his impact as a strike bowler is diminished.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 03, 2024, 03:52:04 pm
And since that first over, 12 overs of very mundane crap, especially when he pitches short.

Cummins saving the day yet again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 06, 2024, 01:43:32 pm
And so a decorated and some controversial career ends.
Thanks D Warner, an absolute star.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 08, 2024, 03:15:31 pm
 Certainly a controversial character who made some serious errors of judgment, but a very good career despite that.

What’s the chances of a couple of 8 year old cricket mates going on to open the batting for Australia … and very successfully at that?

Warner said that he was hoping for a Test spot bowling some leg spin and batting at 6 or 7 🙄
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 08, 2024, 04:02:42 pm
Certainly a controversial character who made some serious errors of judgment, but a very good career despite that.

What’s the chances of a couple of 8 year old cricket mates going on to open the batting for Australia … and very successfully at that?

Warner said that he was hoping for a Test spot bowling some leg spin and batting at 6 or 7 🙄
I love Warner's and Uzi's stories. Warner was a local "backyard" cricketer when given a go.
Uzi's career seemed and dead and buried, persistence saw it resurrected. Just goes to show if you want something bad enough, you can make a name for yourself in sport and get rewarded handsomely as Warner did in the IPL.
I was listening to Stan The Man Longanides on radio yesterday, his motto or rather what he tells kids is "what are you prepared to sacrifice, what are you prepared to give up to go up". It pretty simple.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 09, 2024, 04:56:17 pm
I love Warner's and Uzi's stories. Warner was a local "backyard" cricketer when given a go.
Uzi's career seemed and dead and buried, persistence saw it resurrected. Just goes to show if you want something bad enough, you can make a name for yourself in sport and get rewarded handsomely as Warner did in the IPL.
I was listening to Stan The Man Longanides on radio yesterday, his motto or rather what he tells kids is "what are you prepared to sacrifice, what are you prepared to give up to go up". It pretty simple.

I was made captain of our under 15 footy team and a kid who had dominated in under 13s the previous season didn't show up for training.  I tracked him down at school and asked whether he was going to play in the under 15s.  His response was, "I want to play Test cricket for Australia so I'm not going to play footy any more."

He went on to play 18 Tests for Australia after leaving our northern suburbs school for University High; Gary Cosier.

He would have made a difference to our under 15 team's chances but I discovered later that he had a dodgy back and probably should never have played footy at all.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 10, 2024, 10:35:15 am
The question for me at the moment, is who is going to open?
I'm not a great fan of making an opener out of something else. Especially Green, whose performances promise much but deliver little.
I think Smith goes well enough at #4: making him open opens a hole in the middle of the order with no obvious replacement.
The specialist openers, I don't know that I'm convinced any of them will be what we need, but if we ignore guys who have done the hard yards, what message does that send to the guys playing Shield cricket? We've been something of a closed shop for too long and do need some new blood.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 10, 2024, 12:23:39 pm
The squads are somewhat bizarre, I can't see any rational to how some get bypassed while others get promoted, I suspect it's more about politics than form lines or potential. For example Renshaw gets in but has no form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 10, 2024, 03:16:07 pm
The squads are somewhat bizarre, I can't see any rational to how some get bypassed while others get promoted, I suspect it's more about politics than form lines or potential. For example Renshaw gets in but has no form.

Its amusing isnt it.....Warner pressured Bancroft who was trying to be one of the boys club by making him part of sandpapergate and has been banished every since yet all was forgiven with Warner and Smith. Bancroft throws the bowling contingent under the bus by saying they knew about what was going to happen but they sent him to Coventry and captain Cummins doesnt want him in the team and has the yes man coach Ronnie Mac doing what the players want. Of course Bancroft is a Justin Langer favourite so thats probably not helping him either.
Smith isnt an opener and I am yet to see what Green has done to be played at No4 apart from hang out with the right people....saying all that with such garbage opposition in Pakistan and the Windies this summer anyone could bat anywhere and still make runs or take wickets.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2024, 12:14:56 pm

Smith isnt an opener and I am yet to see what Green has done to be played at No4 apart from hang out with the right people....saying all that with such garbage opposition in Pakistan and the Windies this summer anyone could bat anywhere and still make runs or take wickets.
When they behave like this it's an old boys club, but it's probably good in that they conspire to make tests go 3 or 4 days, otherwise such is the difference between the best and the rest that we might be seeing more debacles like India vs The Saffies!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2024, 01:52:11 pm
When they behave like this it's an old boys club, but it's probably good in that they conspire to make tests go 3 or 4 days, otherwise such is the difference between the best and the rest that we might be seeing more debacles like India vs The Saffies!
South Africa with proper funding and management would be a force in world cricket but are in danger of being owned by India and becoming an irrelevant cricket colony.
The old cricket boys club is alive and well with its HQ in NSW, as people have always said its hard to get into the inner sanctum but once you get in its even harder to get pushed out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 11, 2024, 06:17:46 pm
South Africa with proper funding and management would be a force in world cricket but are in danger of being owned by India and becoming an irrelevant cricket colony.
The old cricket boys club is alive and well with its HQ in NSW, as people have always said its hard to get into the inner sanctum but once you get in its even harder to get pushed out.
I caught the tail end of an interview with Kim Hughes on SEN this arvo, the bloke was absolutely furious over the promotion of Smith to open as well as the non selection of highest domestic run makers like Bancroft.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2024, 08:50:06 pm
I caught the tail end of an interview with Kim Hughes on SEN this arvo, the bloke was absolutely furious over the promotion of Smith to open as well as the non selection of highest domestic run makers like Bancroft.
GTC...Its a bit of WA vs Cricket Australia at the moment, in the old days form and runs in Shield cricket got you selected but now its about who the inner sanctum want in the team as much as anything else and its clear that Bancroft isnt wanted even though he has been the leading run getter for the last two seasons.
Smith will probably make it look a good move vs the hapless Windies who are struggling vs some no name team in their tour game and Bailey will get the kudos but long term its not a good move and we should be introducing younger players for the future.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on January 14, 2024, 07:55:31 pm
Had a look through the West Indies line-up and recent Aus XI game. This is my take on their 1st Test line-up for Adelaide:

01.Kraigg Brathwaite
02.Joshua Da Silva
03.Tagenarine Chanderpaul
04.Alick Athanaze
05.Kirk McKenzie
06.Kavem Hodge
07.Justin Greaves
08.Kemar Roach
09.Alzarri Joseph
10.Gudakesh Motie
11.Shamar Joseph

They experimented with Da Silva opening and I like the look of them more with Chanderpaul at number 3 (given the choices).
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 14, 2024, 08:55:01 pm
Not a lot of experience in the West Indies line-up, but unknowns can catch the unwary unprepared. There hasn't been a lot of talk from the players and those close to them, but thinking they're going to walk over teams is the way to suffering ignominy. I'd rather see us have our homework done and preparations complete to prepare for a battle.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 15, 2024, 09:18:47 am
Had a look through the West Indies line-up and recent Aus XI game. This is my take on their 1st Test line-up for Adelaide:

01.Kraigg Brathwaite
02.Joshua Da Silva
03.Tagenarine Chanderpaul
04.Alick Athanaze
05.Kirk McKenzie
06.Kavem Hodge
07.Justin Greaves
08.Kemar Roach
09.Alzarri Joseph
10.Gudakesh Motie
11.Shamar Joseph

They experimented with Da Silva opening and I like the look of them more with Chanderpaul at number 3 (given the choices).
They will get flogged, get more opposition from the Netherlands....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 16, 2024, 01:28:59 pm
GTC...Its a bit of WA vs Cricket Australia at the moment, in the old days form and runs in Shield cricket got you selected but now its about who the inner sanctum want in the team as much as anything else and its clear that Bancroft isnt wanted even though he has been the leading run getter for the last two seasons.
Smith will probably make it look a good move vs the hapless Windies who are struggling vs some no name team in their tour game and Bailey will get the kudos but long term its not a good move and we should be introducing younger players for the future.

This WA against the rest stuff is pretty funny, when you see Bancroft was overlooked for Cam Green (WA)!!!   

I know they are upset that Renshaw is in the 13, but really he is a concussion sub, and prob seen as a better replacement for anyone in the top 6 - do you really get this upset over someone being picked as a drinks carrier over someone from your state
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 16, 2024, 03:27:34 pm
This WA against the rest stuff is pretty funny, when you see Bancroft was overlooked for Cam Green (WA)!!!   

I know they are upset that Renshaw is in the 13, but really he is a concussion sub, and prob seen as a better replacement for anyone in the top 6 - do you really get this upset over someone being picked as a drinks carrier over someone from your state
I think the main issue remains that Bancroft is perceived by many as the scapegoat for the evils of Warner and Smith who have barely suffered an interruption to their careers! ;)

I had to laugh when some CA Insiders claimed Bancroft isn't good enough, despite topping the Sheffield Shield runs tables which as far as I know remains the top indicator for Test Cricket success. It's hypocritical of CA because when blokes get dropped from the Test squad, or can't get in, they usually tell them to go back to Shield and make heaps of runs.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 16, 2024, 03:34:20 pm
This WA against the rest stuff is pretty funny, when you see Bancroft was overlooked for Cam Green (WA)!!!   

I know they are upset that Renshaw is in the 13, but really he is a concussion sub, and prob seen as a better replacement for anyone in the top 6 - do you really get this upset over someone being picked as a drinks carrier over someone from your state
Green is a good mate of Nathan Lyon and might as well be a NSW player given he hardly every plays for WA. He lost his place to fellow WA allrounder in Mitch Marsh and should have been dropped out of the squad because his form isnt that great.
His only decent test innings was on the flattest track of all time in India where both teams made big scores, his record isnt as good as Shane Watson who averaged more with the bat and had a lower bowling average and also had a greater degree of difficulty having to open the innings on many occasions.
Renshaw is averaging 31 in Shield cricket this season...if we are talking batsman in form and who can roll their arm over you would be picking Beau Webster who is averaging 71 or Nathan McSweeney with 45.
The selection process is skewed to who the inner sanctum want in the team and has nothing to do with form or stats it seems...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 16, 2024, 04:27:21 pm
The selection process is skewed to who the inner sanctum want in the team and has nothing to do with form or stats it seems...
Years ago this was rammed home to me a Unders level, I had a couple of mates with sons in the U17 Australian Tour team, it's a big deal as it is basically the scouting ground for mens 1st Class. One of the lads was a talented batsmen and could have been anything but lost the desire, the other was a talented batsmen and a keeper who wanted to be a test player.

In Unders the keeper was being talked about as the next Gilly, but a better keeper than Mr Gilly. Anyway, after a very successful tour of the UK the kid returned home to basically be badgered and threatened by the NSW Cricket Mafia that he had to go and play for some spud NSW suburban team or his Australian career was over. He didn't go and they kept their word, he was a Victorian but never selected for representative cricket again and in the end gave away the dream to become a chippy. I'd normally question the validity of this story, except before it all played out I was shown the text messages that the kid was being sent by B-grade NSW cricket coaches.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 16, 2024, 06:14:31 pm
Green is a good mate of Nathan Lyon and might as well be a NSW player given he hardly every plays for WA. He lost his place to fellow WA allrounder in Mitch Marsh and should have been dropped out of the squad because his form isnt that great.
His only decent test innings was on the flattest track of all time in India where both teams made big scores, his record isnt as good as Shane Watson who averaged more with the bat and had a lower bowling average and also had a greater degree of difficulty having to open the innings on many occasions.
Renshaw is averaging 31 in Shield cricket this season...if we are talking batsman in form and who can roll their arm over you would be picking Beau Webster who is averaging 71 or Nathan McSweeney with 45.
The selection process is skewed to who the inner sanctum want in the team and has nothing to do with form or stats it seems...

Green's record in Shield cricket is pretty good, when he plays.  If you are looking for the next best batsman, from the Shield, based on records, then it is either Bancroft or Green
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 16, 2024, 09:42:14 pm
Absolutely annoys me the narcissm in cricket and footy.

LP - from the book of faces - 1991 one day comp.  NSW 9 Aus players, WA- 8 Aus players and 1 who ended up playing for the English.

NSW made 193.  Rolled WA for 130.

NSW       WA
Taylor      Marsh
S Small    Moody
Waugh    Lavender
Waugh    Zoehrer
Bevan     Martyn
Bayliss    Andrews W
Mathews Wood
Emery     MacLeay
Lawson   Julian
Whitney McCague
Holdsworth Reid
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 16, 2024, 11:15:25 pm
Green's record in Shield cricket is pretty good, when he plays.  If you are looking for the next best batsman, from the Shield, based on records, then it is either Bancroft or Green
Dont disagree that Green performs well in Shield cricket when he does play but I think you have to reward the player who plays well over the season and plays the majority of the games. I know Green is seen as a developing talent and gets leeway from the potential/development angle but Marsh has essentially taken his spot and Green needs to go back to Shield cricket imo and continue to earn his place in the squad and not be seen as an automatic selection.
Not sure that 3 million IPL contract has done much for his technique or test career either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 18, 2024, 01:10:24 pm
It's hard to get a read on the Windies, at the moment they have a "surprise" aspect to the match in that our lot aren't exposed to them that much.

There was a lot of chest thumping from some Aussie support sectors after the Day 1 bowling performance, but now it's looking like that was a par effort given the situation we are in against at best an OK attack. Maybe I'm not given the Windies bowlers credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 18, 2024, 05:40:22 pm
It's hard to get a read on the Windies, at the moment they have a "surprise" aspect to the match in that our lot aren't exposed to them that much.

There was a lot of chest thumping from some Aussie support sectors after the Day 1 bowling performance, but now it's looking like that was a par effort given the situation we are in against at best an OK attack. Maybe I'm not given the Windies bowlers credit where credit is due.
5 for 50 odd are the Windies and will be lucky to overtake the deficit.
Only surprise is why we are playing them and Pakistan together for this summer given the gap between them and the No 1 team in the world.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 22, 2024, 07:29:59 am
Green hasn't done enough to get, or hold a place in the test side, but that's my opinion, which isn't worth #### on this site.  You don't develop players cat test level.

My old chestnut has to continued under the radar bowling ineffectively.  I'd be giving Morris a go very soon.

Selection "integrity" (as it is euphemistically called) has always been an issue in Australian cricket, at different levels.  Maybe the spotlight should be turned on them and whatever their "processes" are
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 22, 2024, 09:43:16 am
Green hasn't done enough to get, or hold a place in the test side, but that's my opinion, which isn't worth #### on this site.  You don't develop players cat test level.

My old chestnut has to continued under the radar bowling ineffectively.  I'd be giving Morris a go very soon.

Selection "integrity" (as it is euphemistically called) has always been an issue in Australian cricket, at different levels.  Maybe the spotlight should be turned on them and whatever their "processes" are
I agree with you Prof, not sold on Green as a test player and we havent dont much to future proof the bowling attack by developing some young quicks to take over from Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins who will probably all retire around the same time. The state of world test cricket though masks a lot of problems in the game and developing proper test cricketers doesnt seem a high priority for anyone.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 22, 2024, 10:21:13 am
I may as well add to the chorus:
I think Green has a future, he has very few 'runs on the board' at this point. He has a good technique and can bowl at decent pace, but doesn't displace one of the front-liners in either role. Yes, he is an excellent fieldsman, but he needs to do more.
Green seems to be the only young one on the selectors' horizons, which is disappointing. Giving some tests to a few more younger players seems to me to be a good idea.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 22, 2024, 11:13:12 am
My father was a cricket tragic and would often tell me about watching Bradman, Oldfield, O'Reilly, Grout, Johnston, Harvey, etc.  He was a pretty good wicketkeeper himself and spent a couple of seasons at Carlton but gave it away because of the cliques.  He'd compare the Carlton team to the Test team and say that it was hard to get in the team and even harder to get out.  I think it's a lot easier to get out of the Test team these days, but still incredibly hard to get in.

The Australian Test team selection has always had an arcane element and I gave up trying to find any logic to it decades ago.  Sometimes the selectors pull one out of the hat but there are still some ordinary selections rewarding mediocre performances while blokes shining at Sheffield Shield level are overlooked.  Then there's the fixturing that often doesn't give cricketers a chance to showcase their talent at Shield level.

I was listening to a former Test cricketer on the wireless a while back.  It may have been Stuart Clark.  He was adamant that the 12 players selected had to be the best 12 Test cricketers on current form.  He was totally opposed to the idea of "blooding" youngsters and said that their place was honing their craft in the Sheffield Shield.  I think that there's a lot of merit in that approach but I would like to see promising fringe players as the 12th man/concussion sub.

Australian cricket has always struggled to produce genuine all-rounders.  By that I mean a bloke who is genuinely in the best eleven for his batting or bowling, and is not far off with his other discipline.  Doug Walters is a classic example of that; an elite batsman whose bowling was good enough to get by.  Too many of our all-rounders can bat a bit and bowl a bit but aren't elite at either.

I think that's why Green gets a go; the selectors are desperate for a genuine all-rounder and, at his best, Green is a Test standard batsman and bowler.  The problem is that his best is too infrequent and, following Stuart Clark's mantra, he should be working on becoming more consistent with the bat and ball in the Shield.  The problem is that, if he's not getting regular Test games, does he focus on IPL  ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 22, 2024, 08:15:53 pm
Nothing has changed DJ, I am connected to a young person playing premier cricket, and can confirm that's it still hard to break into senior teams and so few get dropped that chances for promotion are few and far between - and seem to be reserved for "cliques" of players. Many players give up because they get sick of rotting in the lower grades season after season with zero opportunity for elevation.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 22, 2024, 09:06:54 pm
Nothing has changed DJ, I am connected to a young person playing premier cricket, and can confirm that's it still hard to break into senior teams and so few get dropped that chances for promotion are few and far between - and seem to be reserved for "cliques" of players. Many players give up because they get sick of rotting in the lower grades season after season with zero opportunity for elevation.

In that context Prof, what are the chances of two 8 or 9 year olds going on to open the batting for Australia?

How many better batsmen fell by the wayside while Warner and Khawaja were on their journey?

I suppose that, at all levels, only 11 players can take the field and that limits the opportunities for the next 11 best players and so on down the line.

One of my cousins plays in the local Geelong comp.  He’s getting on a bit - like all of us - and captains the thirds.  They sometimes struggle for players and he roped in his 14 year old son and 13 year old daughter to make up the numbers. Both kids coped with some hostile bowling and the three of them enjoyed what must have been a fairly unique experience.  Cliques at that level are few and far between and the cricket is better for it 🙂
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 26, 2024, 08:27:41 am
The Windies showed a lot more fight … or did the Aussies not want to bat under lights?

It’s a big ask for an inexperienced team to adapt to the bounce of Australian wickets and face the most successful bowling quartet ever and even bigger when upper order collapses.  This Test could go into the fourth day 🤔
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 26, 2024, 05:20:04 pm
This Test could go into the fourth day 🤔

It seems that I spoke too soon  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 26, 2024, 06:36:38 pm
Sick of waiting for Green to play an innings of substance... Perhaps time to pick a real opener and send some of the pretenders back to first class level to sort their games out.  Not impressed.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 26, 2024, 07:23:07 pm
Sick of waiting for Green to play an innings of substance... Perhaps time to pick a real opener and send some of the pretenders back to first class level to sort their games out.  Not impressed.

Apart from screwing what was a reasonably settled top order, it's disrespecting the Windies and that's never a good idea, even when they're rubbish.

Surely the selectors have to admit that they're wrong and bring in a genuine opening bat.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 26, 2024, 09:11:47 pm
I have lost interest so I haven't been following much, but I gather we've bowled poo again and the batting experiment has failed dismally.

The first thing we have to do is kick NSW out of test cricket, most of our shield sides with wipe the floor with the WI because they are actually interested!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 27, 2024, 11:24:57 am
I have lost interest so I haven't been following much, but I gather we've bowled poo again and the batting experiment has failed dismally.

The first thing we have to do is kick NSW out of test cricket, most of our shield sides with wipe the floor with the WI because they are actually interested!

Bowling was good, half of the batting was abysmal.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 28, 2024, 06:23:35 pm
The Windies have found a bowler in Shamar Joseph ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 28, 2024, 06:56:34 pm
Cant win em all I spose.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 28, 2024, 07:05:26 pm
Cant win em all I spose.

Particularly when the selectors muck around with the batting order  >:(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 28, 2024, 07:13:10 pm
When you don't take an opposition seriously enough, you can get the surprise of your life. Australian cricket wasn't ready for today and suffered accordingly.
Maybe they'll stop congratulating themselves on how good they are and doing the hard yards to make sure we're good.
I won't blame our changes in batsmen, both Green and Smith performed this innings. But Labuschagne had a summer to forget, Head has had one good test and Marsh is human. There hasn't been the consistency in the batting for a long time, and there damned well needs to be.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2024, 11:13:57 pm
Day of surprises in world test cricket and good for the game.....England beat India at home after the home side led by 100 plus runs after the first innings, India have never lost in India after leading by 100 plus . The English  bazballed the second innings to lead by around 200 and then debutant spinner Tom Hartley did a Shamar Joseph and took 7 for 62 and won them the game, this is after Hartley got hit for six off his first ball in the first innings and had the worst economy rate of a debutant bowler ever.

Australia were disappointing and while Smith played well and carried his bat and Green got a 40 I still dont like the batting order changes and think we need specialist openers and Smith back at No4 and only one of Marsh or Green in the team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on January 28, 2024, 11:44:48 pm
You can’t always blame the result on the players that are selected by abilities. Their attitudes are wrong at critical moments. Stark trying the belt the leather off every ball was not a great choice. Smith playing timid at the other end like he was protecting his batting average doesn’t show real leadership. If this was Steve Waugh as the other Steve in this chase, and maybe a late bowling batsman with more composure it was an easy win for us. The bowling was exceptional. It was very good. From a guy with a busted up toe and in hospital the night before. We can’t expect to win purely on past reputation. We lack proper leadership with the bat. When bowlers are on the run with momentum you need a level head to steady the ship. Steve Smith didn’t do this. He didn’t take control of the game the way Stokes, Waugh, Ponting, Border, Kholi and others would have. Don’t even dare state he wasn’t in the same caliber as the guys I have mentioned. His reputation is above what he could really deliver in my opinion. One of the best with the bat as an average in the world needs to show more leadership. The bowling was great. The batting response was one of expecting to win on reputation. Don’t underestimate your opponent. You last win isn’t a measure of your ability. Your last loss is now a measure of your future weakness. Fix it and do it now. Not always by a change in cattle. Maybe by a change in attitude and leadership. Don’t forget what junior group beat you. Not Viv Richards. Not Joel Garner. Not Walsh, Patterson, Lara, Holding, Anderson, Hames, Golmes, Lloyd but a junior list that is on the rise. It might not be a bad way to reconstruct the Australian squad. Look at a few that haven’t had the opportunity to be in the squad as young fellas. Otherwise rebuild the mental leadership. This was not an oops. This was what I would see as a wake up call. Our reputation is higher than our actual ability. The squad needs to learn how to switch momentum. How to be composed. I won’t question our captain but I am not sure he is what is best for this squad. Only my opinion.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Baggers on January 29, 2024, 08:29:02 am
On the upside, cricket is better with the Windies up and about.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 29, 2024, 08:46:43 am
Day of surprises in world test cricket and good for the game.....England beat India at home after the home side led by 100 plus runs after the first innings, India have never lost in India after leading by 100 plus . The English  bazballed the second innings to lead by around 200 and then debutant spinner Tom Hartley did a Shamar Joseph and took 7 for 62 and won them the game, this is after Hartley got hit for six off his first ball in the first innings and had the worst economy rate of a debutant bowler ever.

Australia were disappointing and while Smith played well and carried his bat and Green got a 40 I still dont like the batting order changes and think we need specialist openers and Smith back at No4 and only one of Marsh or Green in the team.

That would be the sensible thing to do EB but our selectors are rarely wrong.  They’ll say that Smith and Green made runs and it wasn’t the team composition that cost us the game.  No change!

The Windies will be inspired by a win that no-one saw coming.  They could be a more difficult opposition in the last Test.

An amazing result in India.  Hartley was stiff not to get man of the match over Pope.  Both were outstanding … but can they back up?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 29, 2024, 09:33:46 am
That would be the sensible thing to do EB but our selectors are rarely wrong.  They’ll say that Smith and Green made runs and it wasn’t the team composition that cost us the game.  No change!

The Windies will be inspired by a win that no-one saw coming.  They could be a more difficult opposition in the last Test.

An amazing result in India.  Hartley was stiff not to get man of the match over Pope.  Both were outstanding … but can they back up?
DJ , this was the last test and we retain the Sir Frank Worrell trophy..weird fixturing imo playing only two tests.South Africa and India only played in a two test series that was also tied one all. Agree on Hartley being man of the match.
Windies doing well is great for the game even though we lost and hopefully inspires some more kids like Joseph to take up the game and make the Windies a force again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 29, 2024, 10:08:25 am
DJ , this was the last test and we retain the Sir Frank Worrell trophy..weird fixturing imo playing only two tests.South Africa and India only played in a two test series that was also tied one all. Agree on Hartley being man of the match.
Windies doing well is great for the game even though we lost and hopefully inspires some more kids like Joseph to take up the game and make the Windies a force again.

I was looking forward to a third test against the Windies with their tails up  :(

The selectors will just quietly sweep this loss under the table and Smith will open against the Kiwis  ::) 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 29, 2024, 10:26:01 am
We played half-ar5ed cricket, they are a B-Grade batting line up and we bowled C-Grade on a pitch offering significant assistance to a beginner who wasn't taken seriously by our batsmen so they mostly failed. The relative truth is exposed in the wash up, not after one innings.

Smith failed to demonstrate his batting credentials, compare his failure to farm the strike to that of say an Alan Border innings and you can see how far off Smith is, he was batting for survival.

All in all we deserved to lose, but the wokeism surrounding our test cricket at the moment means nobody was to blame!

If we had played our "Second string" bowlers, like Boland, Richardson, Neser, Ellis, I suspect we would have cleaned up the WI under 200.

But in the bigger picture, the WI win should be good for test cricket long term, but it would have been even better if it was less disingenuous.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 29, 2024, 12:55:28 pm
Just expected to win, mucked around and got the according result.  The team is comfortable and no one is willling to change it to make it fresher by bringing in new players - even the touted openers have all had a crack at it and been found wanting.  Test cricket shouldn't be a retirement fund.

S Joseph, however, was amazing. It was really easy to barrack for him and the Windies. A few others did their bit really well.

Smith - If you need a challenge by moving to opener time you retired. Bowlers have worked you out.
Labuschange - concentrate on batting and not the rubbish that you do.
Green - ??? No confidence.  He gets pumped up, but don't see it.
Marsh - back to his old ways. If Pakistan could catch we would be asking why he is in the team
Head - take the good with the bad - gets a lot of Goldens.

Bowlers - don't bounce the tail enders - hit the top of off.  Don't complain about the pink ball and surface just because it is a little harder to get a wicket - concentrate on bowling properly and getting them out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 29, 2024, 02:02:00 pm
Just expected to win, mucked around and got the according result.  The team is comfortable and no one is willling to change it to make it fresher by bringing in new players - even the touted openers have all had a crack at it and been found wanting.  Test cricket shouldn't be a retirement fund.

S Joseph, however, was amazing. It was really easy to barrack for him and the Windies. A few others did their bit really well.

Smith - If you need a challenge by moving to opener time you retired. Bowlers have worked you out.
Labuschange - concentrate on batting and not the rubbish that you do.
Green - ??? No confidence.  He gets pumped up, but don't see it.
Marsh - back to his old ways. If Pakistan could catch we would be asking why he is in the team
Head - take the good with the bad - gets a lot of Goldens.

Bowlers - don't bounce the tail enders - hit the top of off.  Don't complain about the pink ball and surface just because it is a little harder to get a wicket - concentrate on bowling properly and getting them out.
Last comment about the bowlers is so true, late order partnerships have hurt us and then you look at the bowling maps and you find  one ball only in a session from our quicks would have hit the stumps.
We have got carried away with this short stuff at the tail tactic after initial success with it vs England and rather than using it as a shock tactic its become the norm and hindering our ability to remove the tailenders..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on January 29, 2024, 07:43:58 pm
Interesting video about Shamar Joseph's origins. Quite interesting.

https://youtu.be/Yn4aagq5j1I?si=Aw9_VGI9ZvtKjR1v

Just think, before the Gabba test, people were questioning if the West Indies could handle the pink ball etc, when you know that S.Joseph grew up bowling lemons and limes, I think you can safely say he had the pink ball covered - as evidenced.

Boy, they have one there.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on February 03, 2024, 12:48:19 am
Another, (amateur) video, of Shamar Joseph arriving back in Guyana to a hero's welcome. When you watch it, you really get a sense how much this means to the region. I hope he doesn't get overawed by it all and just keeps doing what he does.

https://youtu.be/DyDmZ1s06GY?si=TaLzI6vXUpmBud-y
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 29, 2024, 12:59:18 pm
While Smith did OK getting a start, before we crumbled, I remain convinced that Smith as opener does more for Smith's own career than it does for Australian cricket.

He is basically extending his own career at the expense of developing the next pair of openers. We've let these blokes go on too long, they won't go because they earn too much money, they have to be pushed!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 29, 2024, 01:28:05 pm
Not Test cricket but concerning a potential Test cricketer:

Victorian skipper, Will Sutherland, was dismissed early in the Prahran first XI innings last weekend.  He heard that the second XI only had ten players and volunteered as their sub fielder against Geelong.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 29, 2024, 01:58:25 pm
Not Test cricket but concerning a potential Test cricketer:

Victorian skipper, Will Sutherland, was dismissed early in the Prahran first XI innings last weekend.  He heard that the second XI only had ten players and volunteered as their sub fielder against Geelong.
A bunch of people around national cricket have stated that Sutherland should be our next long term test captain, but alas he was born and plays for the wrong state.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on February 29, 2024, 03:51:24 pm
This could be the innings that kicks off Cam Green's career.  Seeming deck, team in trouble.  If he could push on to a 100, and get the team up to 275-odd, it would be a great knock
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on February 29, 2024, 03:55:05 pm
While Smith did OK getting a start, before we crumbled, I remain convinced that Smith as opener does more for Smith's own career than it does for Australian cricket.

He is basically extending his own career at the expense of developing the next pair of openers. We've let these blokes go on too long, they won't go because they earn too much money, they have to be pushed!

i reckon its down to there not being a perfect alternative -  bancroft hasnt looked the goods for aus, and for his great overall fc record, does make a lot of low scores;   they want renshaw, but he just cant string scores together for qld;  harris is p00.  

 the smoky may be madinson - like for like for warner (left hand, quick scorer), if he can keep is recent run going since returning from injury
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 29, 2024, 05:25:56 pm
New Zealand's attack is very pedestrian yet we struggled, Southee is cooked, Henry a plodder and two newbies in Kuggeleijn and ORourke who have no experience at this level.
Smith isnt an opener and is more interested now in becoming a better short format player so he can play the world franchise circuit after his international career is over. Green was due and did well to get to his century but apart from Marsh playing bazball style its slim pickings from the rest all the way down to Carey.
Dont know whats happened to Marnus but he is devoid of confidence and must be close to losing his place in the team....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 01, 2024, 07:59:46 pm
Smith and Marnus out cheaply again..

I guess Marnus has got a way to go before he’s in a Mark Taylor “I’m batting well in the nets” form slump.

I’ve always thought that Smith is vulnerable early in his innings and that seems to be more the case when he’s opening.

I wonder if the pitch will get a bad report 🤔
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 11, 2024, 08:15:40 am
Smith experiment fail, flogged by a kiwi, you can never live that down!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 11, 2024, 02:00:55 pm
You'd be excused for thinking Cummins has stolen Carey's ton in a vein attempt to prevent a discussion about Smith's future. Is it coincidence the NSW Cricket Mafia is discussing that Carey's spot is at risk while Smith remains secure as opener and Labuschagne a lock? Carey gets a ton and they can't possibly drop him as the NSW Cricket Mafia is discussing.

How our test captain couldn't farm the strike to give Carey his well deserved ton is bizarre if not shocking!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on March 11, 2024, 03:43:48 pm
Gutsy win in the end by Australia. Really hard fought win, great to see. Real question marks over the top order.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on March 12, 2024, 12:17:24 am
You'd be excused for thinking Cummins has stolen Carey's ton in a vein attempt to prevent a discussion about Smith's future. Is it coincidence the NSW Cricket Mafia is discussing that Carey's spot is at risk while Smith remains secure as opener and Labuschagne a lock? Carey gets a ton and they can't possibly drop him as the NSW Cricket Mafia is discussing.

How our test captain couldn't farm the strike to give Carey his well deserved ton is bizarre if not shocking!

Cummins did try to get Carey back on strike but, at the end of the day, winning the Test is far more important than a century.  Carey may well have won the Test with a single and ended up on 99 anyway.

Carey isn't going to be dropped after winning man of the match.

Gutsy win in the end by Australia. Really hard fought win, great to see. Real question marks over the top order.

It was a hard fought win after Marsh and Carey seemed to be cruising towards victory.  I'd say the batting in general is fragile, not just the top order.  It's good when the tail can put together partnerships but that can't be relied on.  We were probably lucky that Sears was playing his first Test and lacked experience.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on March 12, 2024, 01:07:25 pm
It was a hard fought win after Marsh and Carey seemed to be cruising towards victory.  I'd say the batting in general is fragile, not just the top order.
I had to laugh today listening to the defence of Smith, because less than 24 hrs ago as the team crumbled it would have been Carey's head on the block.

On Smith we seem to have failed to learn from the way the Poms deconstructed Root. I'm sure they basically did the same thing that we are now repeating with Smith, and it took several seasons for Root to recover but starting as a much younger man.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on March 12, 2024, 02:21:21 pm
Head has been woeful this summer and Starc has been underwhelming as well.  None of the top six have had good summers, consistency is the mark of good players and none of the top six can currently be regarded as dependable.