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AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-09-07/aflw
Quote
The format of the AFL Women’s competition will be reshaped in 2019, as the AFL announced it will introduce a new conference system.

With Geelong and North Melbourne set to join the league next year, the expanded 10-team competition will play two conferences of five teams. Teams will play four conference games and three cross-over games.

Carlton will find out who will be in its conference when the fixture is released in October.

Finals?

Quote
The two top teams in each conference will contest preliminary finals on the weekend of March 23 ­– 24. Teams that finish first in each conference will host.

The NAB AFLW Grand Final will be played between the two preliminary-final-winning teams, with the Grand Final host determined by team with greatest number of wins in the home and away season and percentage, if needed.

I think this is a good step for the AFL.
Yes, they screwed up by reducing the number of games in the AFLW season, but i think this idea will keep it interesting for more teams.

I've long been an advocate of some kind of conference system within the mens game in a way to eliminate the unfair fixturing problem the AFL has forced upon itself.
I think this is a good way to test the waters of the general public.

Now we just gotta see who we get in our conference. Not sure if i want Collingwood to be in our conference or the other one so we can beat them in the GF....which we couldn't do if we were in the same conference.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #1
No offence Kruddler because I know you're a big fan of the American systems for their major sports.

I just have a feeling there may start to be some backlash to the 'Americanisation' of our game.

Draft, Free Agency....now conferencing.
Does any of it make the game better.
Does any of it make it more equal.

I'm not sure....but I'm starting to question it.

Having early draft selections certainly hasn't helped us a great deal.
Even picking first rounders up from other clubs has been hit and miss

It's a complicated situation with Northern teams struggling to retain players.
As quick as the initial contract period ends many look for a move home.
I can't see the Gold Coast surviving in their present form.

Free Agency is a mess.

Conferencing presents problems because of the lack of uniformity in the geographical nature of team's locations.
How do you conference with so many teams located in one city.
What criteria do you use?


Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #2
At Lods
Agree. Our game is unique to Australia, just leave it the fark alone. Why do we have to follow those rubbish American systems. I personally find their sports (baseball, gridiron, Nascar, Indycar etc) absolute tripe.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #3
At Lods
Agree. Our game is unique to Australia, just leave it the fark alone. Why do we have to follow those rubbish American systems. I personally find their sports (baseball, gridiron, Nascar, Indycar etc) absolute tripe.

I agree too.  The Americanisation of our game has to stop.

I know that the AFL is walking a tight line with AFLW in that more than a few players have other sporting commitments and the length of the season is constrained by that.  However, if the women’s game is to prosper, it must be allowed to grow organically and if that means losing a couple of code jumpers, so be it.  Dump the conference crap and let the girls play a fair dinkum season.  And fark off that AFLX rubbish at the same time!
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #4
No offence Kruddler because I know you're a big fan of the American systems for their major sports.

I just have a feeling there may start to be some backlash to the 'Americanisation' of our game.

Draft, Free Agency....now conferencing.
Does any of it make the game better.
Does any of it make it more equal.

I'm not sure....but I'm starting to question it.

Having early draft selections certainly hasn't helped us a great deal.
Even picking first rounders up from other clubs has been hit and miss

It's a complicated situation with Northern teams struggling to retain players.
As quick as the initial contract period ends many look for a move home.
I can't see the Gold Coast surviving in their present form.

Free Agency is a mess.

Conferencing presents problems because of the lack of uniformity in the geographical nature of team's locations.
How do you conference with so many teams located in one city.
What criteria do you use?

OK, a bit to go through here.

Firstly, its not clear from your post if you noticed the 'w' at the end of the AFL there. Just want to make sure that was noticed.

Secondly, the AFLs 'americanised system' does not work because we have half-ar$ed it. We take bits and pieces of it, but ignore other parts. Its no wonder the system doesn't hold up.
Its like trying to copy the car as a mode of transport. You take the engine, you take the chassis, you take the wheels....but you don't take a gas tank.
How is that 'car' going to work as a system? It won't.

Thirdly, Our game is unique, but running competitions and fairness is far from unique. Being stuck in our own system simply because it is our own does not mean its the best system for us. Honestly, that kind of logic is why America still use the imperial system. A better (metric) system has come along, but we like what we have and thats that. *fingers in ears*

Finally, the criteria used for the conferences is IMO by far the biggest issue with implementing the system in AFL. However, AFLW doesn't have such history, and implementing it NOW would be a lot easier to do than with the AFL.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #5
At Lods
Agree. Our game is unique to Australia, just leave it the fark alone. Why do we have to follow those rubbish American systems. I personally find their sports (baseball, gridiron, Nascar, Indycar etc) absolute tripe.

...and that is 100% fine.

However, it should have absolutely ZERO bearing when evaluating the worth of a 'system'.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #6
At this point I don't think the AFL are going to change their minds: the don't want a long AFLW season. I am not so sure that is the way to go, especially as the competition develops. However, we will be using this model for at least 2019.
Am I a fan? Not really. But if it is going to work, then it is better tried now before the competition 'matures' and becomes reluctant to change. I would prefer a system in which a team plays all of the others, but the AFL have in their minds that they don't want the AFLW and AFL seasons to overlap.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #7
OK, a bit to go through here.

Firstly, its not clear from your post if you noticed the 'w' at the end of the AFL there. Just want to make sure that was noticed.


Secondly, the AFLs 'americanised system' does not work because we have half-ar$ed it. We take bits and pieces of it, but ignore other parts. Its no wonder the system doesn't hold up.
Its like trying to copy the car as a mode of transport. You take the engine, you take the chassis, you take the wheels....but you don't take a gas tank.
How is that 'car' going to work as a system? It won't.

Thirdly, Our game is unique, but running competitions and fairness is far from unique. Being stuck in our own system simply because it is our own does not mean its the best system for us. Honestly, that kind of logic is why America still use the imperial system. A better (metric) system has come along, but we like what we have and thats that. *fingers in ears*

Finally, the criteria used for the conferences is IMO by far the biggest issue with implementing the system in AFL. However, AFLW doesn't have such history, and implementing it NOW would be a lot easier to do than with the AFL.

Yep....the W was noticed....the post was  in response to you "long advocating it (conferencing) for the men's competition".

I've long been an advocate of some kind of conference system within the mens game in a way to eliminate the unfair fixturing problem the AFL has forced upon itself.
I think this is a good way to test the waters of the general public.

I'm all for things that improve the game.
I'm all for things that equalise the game as long as they're not too contrived.

I'm less of a fan of the draft as years go by.
Free Agency is a 'genie out of the bottle' and is going to need some major work to put it back in.
Conferencing is pointless when half of the clubs are located in one city.

I don't care much for gimmicky things that don't add to the game.

(and as sure as three feet make a yard...imperial beats metric every time ;) ;D)




Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #8
Yep....the W was noticed....the post was  in response to you "long advocating it (conferencing) for the men's competition".

I'm all for things that improve the game.
I'm all for things that equalise the game as long as they're not too contrived.

I'm less of a fan of the draft as years go by.
Free Agency is a 'genie out of the bottle' and is going to need some major work to put it back in.
Conferencing is pointless when half of the clubs are located in one city.

I don't care much for gimmicky things that don't add to the game.

(and as sure as three feet make a yard...imperial beats metric every time ;) ;D)

You say pointless, i say that can be one of the major reasons to have conferences.

Conferences and divisions generally group teams who are geographically similar. The advantage of that system is to create an untainted draw.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #9
You say pointless, i say that can be one of the major reasons to have conferences.

Conferences and divisions generally group teams who are geographically similar. The advantage of that system is to create an untainted draw.

But isn't our geographical situation and the team/city make-up one that doesn't suit conferencing.

We cant have a Victorian conference and a Rest of Australia conference. That would mean a league that travels all the time and one that doesn't travel at all.

Split the Victorian teams and it's goodbye to some traditional rivalries.

I just cant see the point to having conferences....but you might have a better understanding of how it would work and could show a makeup.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #10
But isn't our geographical situation and the team/city make-up one that doesn't suit conferencing.

We cant have a Victorian conference and a Rest of Australia conference. That would mean a league that travels all the time and one that doesn't travel at all.

Split the Victorian teams and it's goodbye to some traditional rivalries.

I just cant see the point to having conferences....but you might have a better understanding of how it would work and could show a makeup.

I went into great detail into how a system could/would work on the old site. I can't access it now.

I'll attempt to recreate a readers digest version for you now.

Firstly,  18 is a $h!t number to work with, but it is possible. 16, or even 20 work much better. Also, currently the 10 vic vs 8 non-vic makeup also causes some problems. But with that in mind, i'll continue.

Secondly, you can have divisions within the conferences to split it down further.
So off the top of my head a breakdown would go something like this.

Don't get caught up in the nomenclature but basically...
2 conferences - AFL vs VFL
2 Divisions in each.

AFL
West
West Coast
Freo
Adelaide
Port Adelaide

North

Brisbane
Gold Coast
Sydney
GWS

VFL
South
Hawthorn
Geelong
North Melbourne
St. Kilda
Melbourne

'East'

Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Richmond
Western Bulldogs

So how would the draw work?
If you are in the VFL....
VFL, play your own divisions both home and away. = 8 games*
Play your other division once (mix of both home/away) = 5 games
vs AFL - north 2 home/2 away (1 in each city home/away - alternate every year) = 4 games
vs AFL - west 2 home/2 away (i in each city home/away - alternate every year) = 4 games

TOTAL Games = 21*

If you are in the AFL...
AFL, play your own divisions both home and away = 6 games
Play your other division once (1 in each city home/away - ) = 4 games
vs VFL- East 2 home/3 away = 5 games
vs VFL - South 2 home/3 away = 5 games

TOTAL Games = 20

Now in order to even up the games, you could simply NOT play one team in your division twice, reducing the number by 1. Giving a total of 20.

So thats a breakdown of our slightly odd geographical nature and how you could come up with an even draw. That can be sorted out without the AFL chooses who plays who every year. Its set in stone. If you play Freo at home one year, you play freo away next year. You'd play west coast away first year, home second year.

That way every team plays in every team at least once and plays in each state once a year.

There are other ways for you to do a breakdown of the draw which are more indepth, but thats a relatively simple one.

How you'd do the finals could be done a million different ways from there.
A couple of simple ones would be...
1. You could do it so the divisions and conferences mean absolutely nothing for finals. You just use them to get the fixture sorted. You could use a traditional ladder as we do now.
2. You could completely revamp our finals system and go to a more NFL style system which guarantees 1st spot in each division a finals spot and a home final at then you could  choose the best of the rest from there, with either traditional ladder or otherwise.


I could continue, but i think you see the point.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #11
Thanks Kruds

Just to clarify a few points

Carlton would play 4 games interstate each year under this system.
How does that differ much in terms of traveling for all clubs from the current system?

We'd play our traditional rivals twice each year...OK with that aspect.
....but am I wrong in saying we'd play Richmond twice every year...but Gold Coast only ever once each year. ( I don't like that! :D)

I guess the bottom line is... What's the benefit?...How is this a more even system given that each year the strong clubs and the weak clubs would change significantly?

The East and South divisions look fairly even at present...that wouldn't always be the case.


Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #12
Thanks Kruds

Just to clarify a few points

Carlton would play 4 games interstate each year under this system.
How does that differ much in terms of traveling for all clubs from the current system?

We'd play our traditional rivals twice each year...OK with that aspect.
....but am I wrong in saying we'd play Richmond twice every year...but Gold Coast only ever once. ( I don't like that!)

I guess the bottom line is... What's the benefit?...How is this a more even system given that each year the strong clubs and the weak clubs would change significantly?

The East and South divisions look fairly even at present...that wouldn't always be the case.
The current system is hard to nail down, because it isn't really a system. Add to that the fact that some teams sell games interstate (eg Hawthorn and North Melbourne being put in the 'south' category because of their tassie connection).
Basically the AFL 'tries' to do what i'm proposing. 1 game in each state each year, each team in each state at least once a year. You get the China, Tassie, Darwin, Canberra etc games in there, that would changes the aboved breakdown.
Short version, very similar to now.

Yes, we'd play Richmond twice every year (well, 4 out of every 5 years we would, you'd drop a game to get down to 20 under that system).
Yes, we'd only play Gold Coast once (excluding finals). That is basically the point of the system. To lock in who you play each and every year, without the biased hand of the AFL having a say in it.
Of course you would probably play the teams you only ever play once in pre-season games and what not.

Yes, some times one division will be stronger than the other. But that occurs now. One team always has a tougher draw than someone else. That changes from year to year though.

The benefit is, the AFL don't get to handpick who gets an easy draw and who gets a tough draw. Which is currently the case.

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #13
If we were going to copy another competition,  I'd rather copy the English Premier League.

Play each team twice home and away.  At the end of a 34 game season you have your Premier.

Most consistent team wins the league.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW announce 'conferences' for 2019

Reply #14
The benefit is, the AFL don't get to handpick who gets an easy draw and who gets a tough draw. Which is currently the case.

If that's a benefit I'd take it....but it's not that predictable....Who would have thought Adelaide would miss the eight?
Even the conference system you outline cant be predictable other than guaranteeing "who plays who"

Back to the women....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/03/a-gimmicky-tournament-aflw-draw-under-fire?CMP=soc_568