Carlton Supporters Club

OK, changes for Rnd 2.

In;
Whiley, Armfield and one of Graham / Ellard.

Wood probably did enough to stay in, although he may not travel to WA and if so Warnock comes in.

Outs Daisy obviously, Tuohy might struggle, Smith isn't fit enough yet.

OK, changes for Rnd 2.

In;
Whiley, Armfield and one of Graham / Ellard.

Wood probably did enough to stay in, although he may not travel to WA and if so Warnock comes in.

Outs Daisy obviously, Tuohy might struggle, Smith isn't fit enough yet.

Who screwing knows.

In: Whiley, Tutt, Casboult.

Out: Jones, Curnow, Thomas (Injured)

I would strong suggest they consider Armfield if he is fit enough to play. I would keep Wood or shove a rocket up the arse of Warnock if he gets to play. Consider Graham as the sub.

We need better run and carry. If Docherty keeps playing the way he has started, he could be our most improved. I liked what I saw from him, and how White kept his opponent from dominating. The rest I really don't care what Mick and the MC decide for round 2. Its a game we can't win. Not the way we have started. Could be an ugly game.

Seriously, Casboult? ???

He was stitched up by a grand total of zero AFL listed players today! :o

I recall MM talking about having to pick players on form, just last night in the post match, we will see!

Seriously, Casboult????

He was stitched up by a grand total of zero AFL listed players today!

I recall MM talking about having to pick players on form, we will see!

You are correct. He did sweet bugger all, but played mainly in the ruck. Mick did state he will only pick players on form. However, can we really afford to use Jones and Everitt up forward. They were not game winners last night at all. Sure they did something in the first quarter and a half. However they were missing in action from half way through the 2nd quarter until the end of the match. Either that or bring Watson in to be a tall forward.

You are correct. He did sweet bugger all, but played mainly in the ruck. Mick did state he will only pick players on form. However, can we really afford to use Jones and Everitt up forward. They were not game winners last night at all. Sure they did something in the first quarter and a half. However they were missing in action from half way through the 2nd quarter until the end of the match. Either that or bring Watson in to be a tall forward.

You cannot reward poor form, it becomes habit forming.

Everitt spent a lot of time down back, I see that as a coaching problem not a player problem. Losing Daisy early did not help, but injuries are no excuse. ;)

PS: Even in the ruck he should be tearing VFL top up players a new one! This is a bloke the club described as flying, going to a new level!

I agree that you cannot favour a player with poor form. However I also believe Levi plays best when he has AFL games. He hasn't had too many games in the seconds that were blinders. When he plays for the blues and the ball is moving his way, I am confident he is at least a 50/50 chance one on one with an opponent.

We don't have players in the forward 50m that have enough body strength to beat their opponents in one on one contests. Henderson is a great player on the lead, but even he hasn't got the strength to be our 1st forward. He is also good at hitting a pack for a mark, leaving other forwards to lead into free space. Put him in the goal square and cement his feet to the ground if need be.

I only pray he or Watson play a blinder in the seconds soon. Jones and Everitt haven't convinced me they can kick multiple goals in matches, often enough for us to win. That leaves a huge burden on Henderson, as our mids kick too few goals in matches. Something other clubs do very well.

Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Carrazzo, Yarran, Simpson, Whiley, Tutt, White, Tuohy, Bell, Wood etc should be kicking a goal each and every game. That then takes all the pressure off the tall forwards. A combination of these type of mids HBF/HFF types. Otherwise Jones and Everitt need to lift. No question asked. IMO. We Can't blame the coach for all our mistakes. Not for the weak effort to stop the Tigers first up. Even without daisy we should have won.

We Can't blame the coach for all our mistakes. Not for the weak effort to stop the Tigers first up. Even without daisy we should have won.

True, but MM is closer to the end than the beginning, and our list is full of beginners!

BTW, our forwards play like backmen, they take their opponents to the contest! We have zero natural KPP forwards. Fev nearly killed O'hAilpin for doing the same!

Hopefully we get Walker back this week as we need his much needed run and carry.

I'd like to see Whiley in if deemed fit enough.

I think for team balance we need Casboult in the side...even if it potentially makes us top heavy.

Outs...Thomas obviously.
I reckon Curnow should go. His opponent got the better of him and wasn't doing the team things.
Lastly....don't know. Someone who isn't fit.

True, but MM is closer to the end than the beginning, and our list is full of beginners!

BTW, our forwards play like backmen, they take their opponents to the contest! We have zero natural KPP forwards.

True. Hey you make a very valid point there and I think I have an answer for you. Our forwards do play like backmen because that is what they are. We should consider trading defenders for true forwards. Rowe, Everitt, Henderson, Jaksch all play like defenders. Loosing Betts and Waite has really cost us big time. In fact if we had Waite, Betts and Fev (with a bran that functions normally), we would have a forward 50m that would work with Henderson helping them. Hang on we wouldn't pay one enough, let one just walk and sacked one. How clever are we. ;D

I'm not convinced that Rob Wiley brings much to the coaching group but at least he is honest and admitted that we have lost our three best forwards in Waite, Betts and Garlett.  Expecting that they can be replaced by fringe players is wishful thinking.

It's difficult to see how we can kick a winning score without more capable forwards and a structure that gets the best out of them.  Jones seems to be a part time footballer at best and Casboult, Watson and Foster didn't fire up today.  More importantly, I'm not sure that the coaching panel has much idea about how best to set up our forward line.

Casboult has to come in to the side as a back up ruckman first and foremost, and as a forward who can clunk marks and apply defensive pressure inside 50.  That means Jones has to go.

Jaksch and Everitt are similar types; both tall utilities that aren't strong or good enough to hold down key positions.  I'm not sure that there is a place for both of them in the side but that really depends on the potential matchups.

Smith will be a player but I'm not sure that he should really be considered for a full game on a large ground.  I would be tempted to give him another run as the sub - and hope to hell that we don't get another early serious injury.

We need a bit more pace around the ground, a settled defence, more ruck power, greater numbers rotating through the midfield and forwards that can both work to a structure and apply defensive pressure.  Therefore, my outs would be Thomas, Jones, Jaksch and Tuohy and they would be replaced by Buckley, Casboult, Whiley and Armfield. 

Dont see MM dropping Liam Jones after just one game, ditto for Jaksch....reckon Smith, Thomas(inj) both out  for Whiley and Tutt...not so sure about Casboult getting a game..

Jones and Jaksch will stay. Tutt may come in for Clem but it won't be a game changer. Levi has failed his test and it would be hypocritical of MM to select him Whiley has performed ok at VFL level so that's no guarantee. I'd bring in Armfield and Buckley for Clem and Daisy ATM.

Dont see MM dropping Liam Jones after just one game, ditto for Jaksch....reckon Smith, Thomas(inj) both out  for Whiley and Tutt...not so sure about Casboult getting a game..

Jones and Jaksch will stay. Tutt may come in for Clem but it won't be a game changer. Levi has failed his test and it would be hypocritical of MM to select him Whiley has performed ok at VFL level so that's no guarantee. I'd bring in Armfield and Buckley for Clem and Daisy ATM.

You're both probably right, so we can expect another loss next week  :)

Unless there is a massive attitude shift there is little to get excited about for this game, no matter who comes in. Our problems lie with those who are unlikely to be dropped out.

Sorry to disagree but i thought Jones was better than reviewed here.  In marking contests when him and Henderson were in pack situations, he actually looked to try and provide seperation for Hendo and once or twice made the contest a one on one for Hendo.

One of those resulted in a goal for us, and the other was a poster.

He also was a multiple goal kicker and should have ended up with 3.  Whilst people have a bias towards Levi, Jones was our most dangerous forward on the ground which says more about our forwardline than it does Jones and from where i was sitting i thought the way we entered 50 cost us more frequently than the big men not doing their part.  too often they couldn't get to the ball drop bevause the kick was too short or sprayed to wide.

@Thry

Agree with this - Jones is far from our biggest problem IMO. I'd like to see him in front of a really good midfield, and to reverse the logic, I would like to see someone of the talents of Buddy play in front of ours. I think it would be illuminating to say the least.

Whiley might get his look alike Priddis to tag...the latter is almost BOG everytime he plays us and none of our other taggers can handle him....

I don't know what u are all worried about ,read the Richmond board we got beat by this years premiers

I don't know what u are all worried about ,read the Richmond board we got beat by this years premiers

 ;D

Post if the year candidate early up.

@Thry

Agree with this - Jones is far from our biggest problem IMO. I'd like to see him in front of a really good midfield, and to reverse the logic, I would like to see someone of the talents of Buddy play in front of ours. I think it would be illuminating to say the least.

Jones is ok

Our problem was our poor midfield not delivering the ball properly

 ;D

Post if the year candidate early up.

Soft draw so we may have to wait for a while for the inevitable crash, but it will be sweet.

Yarran was hobbling around on one leg after the game and looked like he was on one leg for most of the game.  No certainty to play this week.  If so, bring in Buckley. 

We are desperately in need to players who will spread instinctively and quickly. Subi Oval is big and requires speed.   We need to inject some and fast.

I fear for our backline.

Sorry to disagree but i thought Jones was better than reviewed here.  In marking contests when him and Henderson were in pack situations, he actually looked to try and provide seperation for Hendo and once or twice made the contest a one on one for Hendo.

One of those resulted in a goal for us, and the other was a poster.

He also was a multiple goal kicker and should have ended up with 3.  Whilst people have a bias towards Levi, Jones was our most dangerous forward on the ground which says more about our forwardline than it does Jones and from where i was sitting i thought the way we entered 50 cost us more frequently than the big men not doing their part.  too often they couldn't get to the ball drop bevause the kick was too short or sprayed to wide.

x2.

I was pleasantly surprised with Jones and he showed more pride in the jumper than many 100+ gamers in the team.

I would bring in Armfield and Buckley if both fit for their effort and pace (especially at subi).

Agree with everyone that we need speed at Subiaco. It's has won us games their in recent years and without Yarran we are a slow side that looks very slow. Curiously west coast seem to be a pretty slow side as well.

Levi has to come in. His work in the ruck is actually very good, as well as an option up forward. Rowe to stay where he plays his best footy. I think MM was too gun happy moving guys around. Murph and Gibbs will be better for the run. Not sure if Bell and Cripps should be in the same side at this stage, a real sameness about our midfield.            Boekhurst is the one we need to give us that outside run. Don't think we should be gifting him senior games on his performances  thus far.

I would bring in Armfield and Buckley if both fit for their effort and pace (especially at subi).

Buckley has been lambasted by just about everyone who review the recent VFL practice match. Reads like he is sooking it up a bit because the club want him to play accountable football, not just all out attack.

Surely Casboult will need to come in , can't expect Rowe on Kennedy , then give him a break to run him in the ruck? Will need him down there full time. So that will force a reshuffle already

Sorry to disagree but i thought Jones was better than reviewed here.  In marking contests when him and Henderson were in pack situations, he actually looked to try and provide seperation for Hendo and once or twice made the contest a one on one for Hendo.

One of those resulted in a goal for us, and the other was a poster.

He also was a multiple goal kicker and should have ended up with 3.  Whilst people have a bias towards Levi, Jones was our most dangerous forward on the ground which says more about our forwardline than it does Jones and from where i was sitting i thought the way we entered 50 cost us more frequently than the big men not doing their part.  too often they couldn't get to the ball drop bevause the kick was too short or sprayed to wide.

Jones took one mark for the entire game and that is simply not good enough for a key forward whose marking is supposed to be his strength.  He didn't lead or make position but seemed to follow Henderson around.  Even if the delivery was poor, and I believe poor positioning by the forwards contributed to that, he should have at least marked one or two kick ins.  In contrast, Riewoldt had 8 marks and Griffiths got 6.

The other issue with Jones is that he is just a forward and that unbalanced the side with Rowe being forced to go into the ruck.  In fact, in his short time in the forward line, Rowe was more competitive and a better target than Jones.

If Jones could play to his potential, he would be a champion.  Sadly, I don't think that will happen.

^^^
The one mark he did take was a contested mark and led to a goal. His other goal was because he was smart enough to NOT go for the mark and got the ball over the back of a pack.

Far from a perfect start, but far from a disaster. He was equal leading goalkicker after all.

Let's give Jones a few games to find his feet before we bury him. Not really the best game to make judgements. Let's be honest , the players we lost from just last year , Waite , Robbo, Garlett , we haven't picked up anyone to "take" there spots

Jones took one mark for the entire game and that is simply not good enough for a key forward whose marking is supposed to be his strength.  He didn't lead or make position but seemed to follow Henderson around.  Even if the delivery was poor, and I believe poor positioning by the forwards contributed to that, he should have at least marked one or two kick ins.  In contrast, Riewoldt had 8 marks and Griffiths got 6.

The other issue with Jones is that he is just a forward and that unbalanced the side with Rowe being forced to go into the ruck.  In fact, in his short time in the forward line, Rowe was more competitive and a better target than Jones.

If Jones could play to his potential, he would be a champion.  Sadly, I don't think that will happen.

He was on target for 176 for 2015 at qtr time...lol,

Let's give Jones a few games to find his feet before we bury him. Not really the best game to make judgements. Let's be honest , the players we lost from just last year , Waite , Robbo, Garlett , we haven't picked up anyone to "take" there spots

Add Betts to that list too   :(

We really are relying on fringe players, both from other clubs and our draftees/rookies, to develop into A and B graders.

I'm not against Jones getting a couple of games to show whether he is up to it but we must have back up for Wood (or Warnock) in the ruck.  Whoever that is can't spend the rest of the game in a key defensive post.

Totally agree , maybe they were thinking we will have a team of swing men? Yes Betts as well, there's most of our previous forward line. Think we might end up regretting aiming for a team of boy scouts , instead a team of footballers

Natanui is smashing Minson, doesn't bode well for us!

Natanui is smashing Minson, doesn't bode well for us!

Not at all. Natanui is the X Factor in the WC list. If he starts to produce, then their midfield becomes a lot more powerful. he has so much unfulfilled potential that it is frightening.

 Out: Daisy 4-6, Jaksch (ribs,2) , (Yarran ???? knee)

 In: Tutt (speed, goal sense), Casboult (simply have to, balance) , (Is Walker fit yet? or Whiley/Dick/Bryne [why not])

We trusted Rowe on some big reputations last year, he has JK; Nic Nat is the main concern, maybe huge left field could be White, he seems to be our serial pest, gets under their skin; stick with Curnow on Pridis but sub him in the third for Smith to take over (no one would expect that!!)
Have to become unpredictable, because what is thrown up is appalling, and everyone would know what we bring to the table is very beatable.

Interesting that Natanui didn't take any marks (neither did Minson).

It seems that Mitch Brown has torn am ACL and is out for the season.

Jones took one mark for the entire game and that is simply not good enough for a key forward whose marking is supposed to be his strength.  He didn't lead or make position but seemed to follow Henderson around.  Even if the delivery was poor, and I believe poor positioning by the forwards contributed to that, he should have at least marked one or two kick ins.  In contrast, Riewoldt had 8 marks and Griffiths got 6.

The other issue with Jones is that he is just a forward and that unbalanced the side with Rowe being forced to go into the ruck.  In fact, in his short time in the forward line, Rowe was more competitive and a better target than Jones.

If Jones could play to his potential, he would be a champion.  Sadly, I don't think that will happen.

Jones isnt a push and shove merchant and that means he has to take the speccy over the back or make a decent lead which relies on good delivery...the latter is an issue because we
dont use the ball well like the top teams and marking from behind is low percentage option.
He needs instruction on how to work his opponent off the ball and use his size better...look like he has had no instruction at the bulldogs at all......
I'd rather pay Fev to come back and work with the kid on his weak areas, Fev can teach Casboult how to kick as well....

Jones isnt a push and shove merchant and that means he has to take the speccy over the back or make a decent lead which relies on good delivery...the latter is an issue because we
dont use the ball well like the top teams and marking from behind is low percentage option.
He needs instruction on how to work his opponent off the ball and use his size better...look like he he no instruction at the bulldogs at all......

Or maybe EB he's just not good enough or doesn't have the focus and determination to better himself, and that's why the Doggies, desperate for tall forwards, let him go.

Or maybe EB he's just not good enough or doesn't have the focus and determination to better himself, and that's why the Doggies, desperate for tall forwards, let him go.

Yep...fair points Carrots and thats why he is on his second and probably last chance....his defensive work at the Dogs led him to being dropped and getting offside
with McCartney who was big on the 1%ers and Jones didnt want to chase, harass and keep the ball in the forward 50 enough.
Mick is a different coach who is prepared to let players off the hook if they dominate in other areas of the game ie Dane Swan.
Will be interesting to see how patient Mick is with Jones  if his job starts looking shaky...

Or maybe EB he's just not good enough or doesn't have the focus and determination to better himself, and that's why the Doggies, desperate for tall forwards, let him go.

He apparently trained solo for six weeks over the official player holiday period just to present himself in good condition to Carlton!

Doesn't sound like a bloke who lacks focus or determination, but I admit his history is chequered so perhaps his slate starts in 2015.

Lets focus on his future for now, that is what we want not his past!

My real concern here, we seem to be accumulating blokes who show potential but fail to deliver because they lack confidence! Casboult, Watson, Warnock, Rowe, Curnow, Jones, Bell, Everitt, etc., etc.. I think it's time to get some blokes who over-deliver because they think they are indestructible!

Why we can beat WCE:

Bullies are a middle of the road team, like us and WCE struggled to overcome them.
They have no key backman left. Bring in The Bolt and add him to Hendeson, Jones and Menzel to really stretch them.
They are returning from a road trip.
We have a good record on the road.
We have a good record at Subi.
We can't play any worse.
WCE aren't that great!

Convinced??

@townsend.

The stacking he forward ine wilth talls, will only work if we dominate the midfield and give them enough opportunity.

To be honest,  I think we have too many difficencies in other parts of the grond for that to work.



 

We need to bring in some speed but I don't know where it will come from, Hendo needs to play back. I fear another hiding is on the cards. Hello 0-2.

You still need forwards to capitalise on the huge amount of work done up the ground.  I wonder if stay at home types might have some value... Mark and kick isnt glamourous but it works.

Let blokes like Jamison and Watson unload longs kicks off the HBF / Wing to one out power forwards and it works.

But if you spend 5 minutes getting the ball from the back pocket around the boundary line to the wing first it doesn't! ;)

I think MMs game plan is flawed.

Is it only me or was it like watching a replay of several of last years games.

: We fly out of the blocks, miss several easy shots, and go in 2-3 goals up instead of 4-6.

:opposition starts running, we throw numbers behind the ball and dont score.

:through weight of numbers the dam wall breaks and we get flogged

;Last quarter go man-on-man, make a comeback and we are a bit stiff.

MM said you set your game plan to the players you have, if that is true who is capable of playing the Josh Gibson, Nick Maxwell role at Carlton of being the Third,/loose/plus one or whatever you want to call them, we do not have one, but he keeps having one who has a sore neck from watching the ball go over his head!

The whole football world , with the exception of MM, now understands that you have to kick a winning score.

Every successful team has 2,3, or 4 runners, we played one, Yarram (simpson doesn't run much anymore) who is very good but shut him down and we have no-one.

What happened to the defensive half forward role, that seems to have gone, Houli had a field day.

The supposed problem for Jones at the doggies was he is not a key target player but at the blues with Casboult and Henderson around him he would be OK, SO we dont play Levi, we put Jones at CHF and he is exactly the same flop he was at the doggies.

We have been badly beaten and whilst MM made excuses, "we new Jacksh wasnt big enough (then why play him), we only expected smith to play a 1/4 (thats why they are called subs in case of injury), we have lost 3 out of 4 of our major goal kickers of the past 4 years" ( we for various reasons let them all go) then decided that the greatest concern was HIS contract, not for him of course, but for the players and the other coaches.

Please spare me, MM would be very luck to get another coaching gig when he is finished at Carlton and whilst I would not neccessarily know, I cannot think of one of the assistants who gets enough praise that other clubs would be targeting them.

Armfield has faults, but he is quick and has a go, they recruited Tutt for his speed play him, dont think about Ellard (I bet they do), Toohey has had no impact on a game now for over a year, drop him or put him in a spot to make a difference, no numbers behind the ball beat your opponent.

We have a good record in Perth and West Coast aren't much, we can win!

We haven't been able to improve the leadership qualities of our players

Leaders are born not made.

Leaders are born not made.

We don't understand leadership well enough to make a statement like that but regardless, you absolutely can improve the leadership qualities you have.

For some reason ( and I have nothing to back it up) Cripps presents himself as a player with genuine leadership qualities that could be worked on.  X factor.

Was thinking about round one again today. Over the last few years, we have drafted a number of players to "improve" our list and hopefully our fortunes. Many (including me) were/are saying this is great as it creates competition for spots. But does it? I wonder if it has instead created a team of individuals who week after week go into self preservation mode. It was evident again last Thurs  On game day, we just don't do any of the team things well, we don't player for each other, the jumper or the coach. Thoughts?

Was thinking about round one again today. Over the last few years, we have drafted a number of players to "improve" our list and hopefully our fortunes. Many (including me) were/are saying this is great as it creates competition for spots. But does it? I wonder if it has instead created a team of individuals who week after week go into self preservation mode. It was evident again last Thurs  On game day, we just don't do any of the team things well, we don't player for each other, the jumper or the coach. Thoughts?

If that is true GTC you are describing classic symptoms of poor or non-existent leadership.

Was thinking about round one again today. Over the last few years, we have drafted a number of players to "improve" our list and hopefully our fortunes. Many (including me) were/are saying this is great as it creates competition for spots. But does it? I wonder if it has instead created a team of individuals who week after week go into self preservation mode. It was evident again last Thurs  On game day, we just don't do any of the team things well, we don't player for each other, the jumper or the coach. Thoughts?

That's not a bad theory at all....but does it help when your coach labels you the best thing since sliced bread in the lead up to the season? I'm talking about Liam Jones.

That's not a bad theory at all....but does it help when your coach labels you the best thing since sliced bread in the lead up to the season? I'm talking about Liam Jones.

I can understand a coach pumping up the tyres of a young fella who has plenty of potential but is down on confidence and self belief. My main point is our players are mentally (a physically) weak (from a drive, competitive and determination point of view), its a culture that will take a long time to weed out and change.

I can understand a coach pumping up the tyres of a young fella who has plenty of potential but is down on confidence and self belief. My main point is our players are mentally (a physically) weak (from a drive, competitive and determination point of view), its a culture that will take a long time to weed out and change.

Fair point, but I think a great coach can turn this kind of thing around with what he has, rather than blowing a massive hole in the list.

Unfortunately, Thursday night told one story, but over the weekend watching Betts and Garlett kicking goals, Sam Jacobs taking grabs all around the ground,  and Laidler getting 22 touches off halfback just added to the plot.  We are miles away from being truly competitive against the top teams, and seem to be heading backwards.

Our list management for the past few years has been nothing short of deplorable.  Not only do we struggle to recruit good players, but we also struggle to retain them. 

Wake me up in 5 years......

talk to the previous administration about that...

Jones isnt a push and shove merchant and that means he has to take the speccy over the back or make a decent lead which relies on good delivery...the latter is an issue because we
dont use the ball well like the top teams and marking from behind is low percentage option.
He needs instruction on how to work his opponent off the ball and use his size better...look like he has had no instruction at the bulldogs at all......
I'd rather pay Fev to come back and work with the kid on his weak areas, Fev can teach Casboult how to kick as well....

With Jaksch injured we can go back to more regular set ups as per last year. Jammo, Rowe key defence positions, Henderson, Casboult forward, latter rucking, with Jones as 3rd tall where he's better suited. Jones ciould be dangerous there.

Wood in the ruck. Might win less taps but we may win the clearances still. Wood will take more marks than Nic Nat too. That's more important to me.

This week...

OUT

Thomas injured

Jaksch injured

Smith not ready

Touhy really needs to be dropped

Curnow needs to be dropped

IN

Casboult back

Whiley in

Tutt in

Buckley?

Boakhorst?

Really missing Walker in particular. After that we're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Levi, Buckley ,Whiley, Tutt, and find some space for Armfield if he is up to the challenge. Thomas out, Curnow out and any 3 other lazy efforts. Just make some significant changes. Its a shame we don't have Garlett and Betts, because they could win this game off their own boot in this next match. IMO only.

I really don't see how Tuohy so desperately needs to be dropped TBH.

Forget last week...

OK...2015....Starting......Now! :D

Does the topic title need to be that long? Doesnt work well with the scroller...

Agreed. Touhy doesnt need to be dropped

Not sure Whiley is ready yet? Spent much of the preseason injured

Touhy didn't play well last week but it's a bit early to drop him yet.

Casboult, Tutt, Armfield in this week I reckon.

Whiley needs another run. He will be a plus for us though when he's fully fit.

Does the topic title need to be that long? Doesnt work well with the scroller...

No, but I kept the same as Rnd 1 so searches will work better.

If we change one, change them all.

Is NicNat playing? No doubt he'll have his one dominating performance for the year against us.

No, but I kept the same as Rnd 1 so searches will work better.

If we change one, change them all.

Yep we'll do that....I was having a bit of trouble identifying it as the match thread myself.

Jungle drums will beat just a little louder if we lose this game.  

Think we have a chance considering Eagles are down on defenders, but playing in Perth still gives the Iceagles   the advantage.

Hope it is a close game and we have something positive to talk about on Friday night after  the game.

@Age

Mate I would be rapt if we just gave it a red hot go for 4Qs.

@Age

Mate I would be rapt if we just gave it a red hot go for 4Qs.

I think that's all that we could ask.

Of course, if we do give it a red hot go, we will win by 10 goals.

I think that's all that we could ask.

Of course, if we do give it a red hot go, we will win by 10 goals.

 ;)

I'm okay with them not having a go and getting a 10 goal win :P

West Coast are not that good, we have played ok at Domain and they have had their defensive spine ripped apart with injury....we should win and anything else is not acceptable IMO..honest 4 quarter efforts are for bottom teams...we need to come out and kick 6-10 goals in a quarter and blow these pretenders off the park..

I'm okay with them not having a go and getting a 10 goal win :P

 :))

West Coast are not that good, we have played ok at Domain and they have had their defensive spine ripped apart with injury....we should win and anything else is not acceptable IMO..honest 4 quarter efforts are for bottom teams...we need to come out and kick 6-10 goals in a quarter and blow these pretenders off the park..

Well?.....................only joking, honest.

Well?.....................only joking, honest.

Wasnt having a go at you Cookie...just pointing out that WC are beatable on their own dung heap and we need to take an aggressive mindset into the game both
on and off the field.
Mick should have Adam Simpson covered in terms of coaching experience and the Wet toasters are down on manpower...if we cant be confident going into this game
then we might as well give it away...

Wasnt having a go at you Cookie...just pointing out that WC are beatable on their own dung heap and we need to take an aggressive mindset into the game both
on and off the field.
Mick should have Adam Simpson covered in terms of coaching experience and the Wet toasters are down on manpower...if we cant be confident going into this game
then we might as well give it away...

No worries EB. Let's just hope we can get over the line, will be watching on TV.

Its only rd 2 and whatever confidence I had in this "team" was shot to peices against the tiggies.
we ere fair dinkum poo and for the final margin to be only 27 pts probably speaks more about the tiggies deficiencies more than ours.

WC have got 1 key defender this week but WC willl be licking there lips at only having to come up against us this Fri night. Hopefully MM and the players can prove me wrong but I'm not expecting much tbh.


Cant believe its only rd 2 and they've already lost me :'(

Daisy and Jaksch out

Graham, Whiley, Tutt and Buckley all played reasonably well in the magoos.

I still don't think Smith has the legs to run out a full game, so it's either the green vest again for him or he gets dropped.

Talk of Warnock being ready to come back, I reckon Wood would be unlucky no to get another chance.

They have lost their 2 regular KPD's and Darling will still be out injured.

This is a very winnable game, here's hoping we can make amends for last week.

Daisy and Jaksch out

Graham, Whiley, Tutt and Buckley all played reasonably well in the magoos.

I still don't think Smith has the legs to run out a full game, so it's either the green vest again for him or he gets dropped.

Talk of Warnock being ready to come back, I reckon Wood would be unlucky no to get another chance.

They have lost their 2 regular KPD's and Darling will still be out injured.

This is a very winnable game, here's hoping we can make amends for last week.

Good opportunity to bring in Casboult?

As 2E stated in the media, the responsibility of last weeks performance lies squarely with the players. It is entirely up to them to redeem themselves this week, nothing less than tough, ruthless, desperate footy for 120 minutes is acceptable. They normally go ok in the West, so the road trip, bonding and soul searching will do them well. Sadly though, this group has proven in the passed to not be up to the task when challenged so I expect another loss.
In any case, Go Blues.

Talk of Warnock being ready to come back, I reckon Wood would be unlucky no to get another chance.

Warnock in, Wood playing forward?

Good opportunity to bring in Casboult?

I think Broekhurst, Warnock and Buckley come in. Smith out in addition to injuries.We need to nullify  Natanui and Lyvett with 2 full time ruckmen. Wood will spend more time up forward.than Warnock.

As 2E stated in the media, the responsibility of last weeks performance lies squarely with the players. It is entirely up to them to redeem themselves this week, nothing less than tough, ruthless, desperate footy for 120 minutes is acceptable. They normally go ok in the West, so the road trip, bonding and soul searching will do them well. Sadly though, this group has proven in the passed to not be up to the task when challenged so I expect another loss.
In any case, Go Blues.

Yep he should have just said 'the responsibility lies squarely with the coaching department, it is totally up to them to redeem themselves this week, nothing less than smart, adaptable, astute coaching for 120 minutes is acceptable'. :P

As 2E stated in the media, the responsibility of last weeks performance lies squarely with the players. It is entirely up to them to redeem themselves this week, nothing less than tough, ruthless, desperate footy for 120 minutes is acceptable. They normally go ok in the West, so the road trip, bonding and soul searching will do them well. Sadly though, this group has proven in the passed to not be up to the task when challenged so I expect another loss.
In any case, Go Blues.

We seem to be disagreeing lately GIC.
I reckon the responsibility for last week's debacle rests largely with the coach and match committee.  There were blunders in selection, poor opposition analysis, players played out of position, poor structures, poor responses to opposition tactics, the players were not fit enough to play the game style and they were not motivated sufficiently to do the one percenters.

Yes, the players have to wear some of the blame for skill errors and poor decision making and, in Tuohy's case, telling porkies.

Forget the match committee, there is only one thing causing our team to lose, it's the same thing we lacked last year, and the same thing we have lacked for about 5 years...

Work rate.

Our guys are front runners. We don't work hard enough. As soon as Richmond put pressure on us we folded and stopped running. And I dont just mean in defence, in offence as well. Running to create space, running on a lead, running to give a target. It was so obvious in the game last week. Look at every game we have been in front in over the last 5 or 6 years. When we run for each other, on and off the ball, we invariably ar competitive, even with the top sides. But we refuse to maintain that work rate.

This is not a problem of coaches, this is a problem of the team leadership. We need a leader who demands nothing but high work rate from the rest of the group. Not only leading by example, but leading with bold and honest feedback. Someone mentioned in another thread how the leaders of other teams would get the players in a huddle at quarter time before the rolicking from the coach, we need to see that. I love Murphy and Gibbs and the rest of those guys, but that's not what we need, we need a Duigan or a Scotland at the helm to give the boys the rocket they need, IN GAME.

Work rate.

The game plan requires a work rate that cannot be sustained.

The game plan requires a work rate that cannot be sustained.

More than Ross Lyon's or Alistair Clarkson's? Have to disagree.

More than Ross Lyon's or Alistair Clarkson's? Have to disagree.

Maybe DJC thinks the work rate cannot be sustained by our clubs, because our players are weak and lazy. How many more players do we need to replace before things start to improve. If we don't beat west Coast, we are really heading for trouble. The scum in week three will more than likely be a loss. We can't be 0-3. No way at all or our season is seriously heading the wrong direction. The players need to have a good look at themselves before round 2.

Maybe DJC thinks the work rate cannot be sustained by our clubs, because our players are weak and lazy. How many more players do we need to replace before things start to improve. If we don't beat west Coast, we are really heading for trouble. The scum in week three will more than likely be a loss. We can't be 0-3. No way at all or our season is seriously heading the wrong direction. The players need to have a good look at themselves before round 2.

No, I don't think that at all.  Read LP's excellent analysis of our game plan which states in part:

I think the problem with the plan is that it ignores fatigue caused by other aspects of play, mental fatigue, stress, collisions and frustration. Your legs might be fine but that doesn't mean you aren't physically and mentally shattered. It's not a natural way to play football, it is more like a rugby scrum, wrestle or tug-of-war!

Our players look weak and lazy because the way the coach wants them to play doesn't work.

DJC, what exact game plan can our team employ that won't let them experience huge fatigue due to work rate, have players colliding into others, and have frustrations when things don't always work the way you would like it. How about our boys drink a can of suck it up princess, and grow a pair. We don't have a work rate that the players use for 4 quarters. we don't have a work rate that is used for 3 quarters or even 2 quarters. How we even mange to lose by less the 10 goals is beyond my understanding.

I'm not sure what our game plan is, but it appears to be one of go for a victory, but only use your efforts for around 25 mins of the entire game. Maybe 50 mins on a really good day.

No, I don't think that at all.  Read LP's excellent analysis of our game plan which states in part:

Our players look weak and lazy because the way the coach wants them to play doesn't work.

LP has formed an opinion.  Thats fine, but even in last week's case it fails to take into account the fact that once again we used a sub less than five minutes into the first quarter.  We had at least one other player in duress (Jaksch).

We played fairly poorly yet didn't get obliterated.  We could have finished the game off by quarter time had we taken our opportunities better.  Our gameplan is not the cause of our lack of run.  Nor is it a lack of workrate.  Even the best players need consistency in their preparation to show their best versiom of them themselves.   Juddy has struggled since Oscar was born.  G. Ablett looked out of touch on the weekend probably due to his shoulder woes.

Most of our mob have had some sort of setback over their careers.

No, I don't think that at all.  Read LP's excellent analysis of our game plan which states in part:

Our players look weak and lazy because the way the coach wants them to play doesn't work.

Some of our players are weak and lazy.....but we make a lot of errors especially when we tire and for some reason we seem to looked tired earlier
than a lot of teams. We have tried various fitness guru's but never seem to be leaders or pace setters in the fitness area.
Our tackling still infuriates me...half arsed at times, bumping instead of tackling, one arm thrown out instead of two, players just walking through our blokes
like they dont exist....
The teams that do jump from bottom, midpack into the eight all seem to have that extra edge in fitness from the previous year....Port got superfit and went straight from bottom to top 8/4....
Crows this season look extra fit with Phil Walsh driving them hard, even the Demons are reported to be a lot fitter and it showed...the Suns look like they were in holiday mode and looked
like a few players were well underdone including Ablett and played accordingly..

We need to get fitter or get players who are fitter and this has to be a base requirement IMO...train them to run harder than anyone else, tackle harder and I reckon the skill errors
will also decrease with extra fitness...

DJC, what exact game plan can our team employ that won't let them experience huge fatigue due to work rate, have players colliding into others, and have frustrations when things don't always work the way you would like it. How about our boys drink a can of suck it up princess, and grow a pair. We don't have a work rate that the players use for 4 quarters. we don't have a work rate that is used for 3 quarters or even 2 quarters. How we even mange to lose by less the 10 goals is beyond my understanding.

I'm not sure what our game plan is, but it appears to be one of go for a victory, but only use your efforts for around 25 mins of the entire game. Maybe 50 mins on a really good day.

The main flaw with our game plan is that it requires players to do a lot of running for little or no return.  It is a low possession game style so, for most of the game, we are trying to defend and that burns up energy.  The better teams defend through attacking, avoid sending the ball to contests, and use handball to create opportunities to move the ball so that there is a low risk of turnovers.  They have defensive structures that limit the opposition's options and negate their strengths.  The best teams ensure that every player knows every other player's role and can fill in when necessary. 

When you watch Hawthorn or Geelong, you must notice how often they have a string of three or four handpasses to get the ball to a player in the clear.  Even Richmond used handball to free players up.  Our players are schooled to minimise handpassing and to get their kick away as soon as possible.  That usually results in a contest or a stoppage, rarely an uncontested possession.

Any competent coach would have our blokes playing more efficient football that creates less fatigue and enables higher work rates.

Some of our players are weak and lazy.....but we make a lot of errors especially when we tire and for some reason we seem to looked tired earlier
than a lot of teams. We have tried various fitness guru's but never seem to be leaders or pace setters in the fitness area.
Our tackling still infuriates me...half arsed at times, bumping instead of tackling, one arm thrown out instead of two, players just walking through our blokes
like they dont exist....
The teams that do jump from bottom, midpack into the eight all seem to have that extra edge in fitness from the previous year....Port got superfit and went straight from bottom to top 8/4....
Crows this season look extra fit with Phil Walsh driving them hard, even the Demons are reported to be a lot fitter and it showed...the Suns look like they were in holiday mode and looked
like a few players were well underdone including Ablett and played accordingly..

We need to get fitter or get players who are fitter and this has to be a base requirement IMO...train them to run harder than anyone else, tackle harder and I reckon the skill errors
will also decrease with extra fitness...

I agree with some of that EB but I still believe that our game plan contributes to unnecessary fatigue.

Collingwood gleefully announced that their players had never been fitter after their first pre-season without Buttifant.  While that could just have been point scoring, we do seem to be a bit behind other teams.  Perhaps we are aiming to peak in September.

Do we have a tackling coach?  I don't think we do.  We have had a tradition of utilizing rugby players as tackling coaches (my PE teacher Paddy McGoldrick was tackling coach in the 1960s) and we worked with Melbourne Storm when they trained at Princes Park.

The game plan requires a work rate that cannot be sustained.

The Hawks, Swans, Cats, Power, Freo players say hi.

The Hawks, Swans, Cats, Power, Freo players say "We're glad our coach has a game plan that doesn't burn energy for no return."

Edited for accuracy  ;)

When you watch Hawthorn or Geelong, you must notice how often they have a string of three or four handpasses to get the ball to a player in the clear.  Even Richmond used handball to free players up.  Our players are schooled to minimise handpassing and to get their kick away as soon as possible.  That usually results in a contest or a stoppage, rarely an uncontested possession.

Any competent coach would have our blokes playing more efficient football that creates less fatigue and enables higher work rates.

Sorry, but this part of your analysis I disagree with completely. The main reason other teams are able to string together posessions is that they work hard. Just watch our guys in the first quarter on the weekend and see how hard they run in attack. running past the player who has taken a mark, running into space, running to create an open target. It's exactly the way the better teams play. You cannot create uncontested posession unless you work hard off the ball. Similarly, if in defence you don't work hard off the ball, then your opponent gets a free posession.

I don't think it's a work rate thing I think it's a confidence thing. For whatever reason our boys are rooted to the spot, perhaps afraid to break team rules or make an error? Our best players used to love to burst forward of the ball, that is but a remnant of a bygone era for us.

I could see that if it were a problem all of the time, but it's not. Take a look at the first quarter and in the second quarter before Richmond's run starts. They were running and working all over the park. Blokes were lining up to run past the bloke with the ball. This is a familiar sight over many years.

Tutt, Ellard, Armfield and Casboult all on the plane to Perth in a squad of 24. 

I don't think it's a work rate thing I think it's a confidence thing. For whatever reason our boys are rooted to the spot, perhaps afraid to break team rules or make an error? Our best players used to love to burst forward of the ball, that is but a remnant of a bygone era for us.

It is work rate thing, the top sides run harder and further than us.

I could see that if it were a problem all of the time, but it's not. Take a look at the first quarter and in the second quarter before Richmond's run starts. They were running and working all over the park. Blokes were lining up to run past the bloke with the ball. This is a familiar sight over many years.

Yep take a look at the first quarter and second quarter it's a perfect example. Richmond come at us and, just like the last few years, we go into our shell and concede multiple goals.

I agree that our boys melt whenever challenged. That was evident under Ratten and still continues to this day under Malthouse. However I see the workrate thing as a separate issue. And both I think are related more to on-field leadership than off.

Tutt, Ellard, Armfield and Casboult all on the plane to Perth in a squad of 24.

I love Davey Ellard but... Does anyone else feel a sense of dread when these names are our next best in line for a game.

Ellard and Casboult are clearly in my best team. Armfield isn't as he had a poor 2014 but we do need to inject some pace into the side after our pathetic chasing efforts last week.

I love Davey Ellard but... Does anyone else feel a sense of dread when these names are our next best in line for a game.

One thing is for sure he gives 100%, it's just that his 100% it's only about 80% of what he actually needs to be a part of an AFL team! It's not his fault, it's his limitations.

So yes some dread, he's our club version of a DUFF.

How we still have Ellard while Kane Lambert gets a gig at Nthmond is a puzzle! I suggest our 2s coaching crew has some hard questions it needs to answer!

Pretty sure Ellard has a trip to Perth written in his contract.

One thing is for sure he gives 100%, it's just that his 100% it's only about 80% of what he actually needs to be a part of an AFL team! It's not his fault, it's his limitations.

So yes some dread, he's our club version of a DUFF.

How we still have Ellard while Kane Lambert gets a gig at Nthmond is a puzzle! I suggest our 2s coaching crew has some hard questions it needs to answer!

Webster seems to be acting on strict orders from the senior coaching group at Ikon Park from what I read yesterday, with CFC players filling roles in the NBs as directed. Not sure how that works out but the outcomes in terms of player development don't seem too flash that's for sure.

:o
Do we have a tackling coach?  I don't think we do.  We have had a tradition of utilizing rugby players as tackling coaches (my PE teacher Paddy McGoldrick was tackling coach in the 1960s) and we worked with Melbourne Storm when they trained at Princes Park.

:o He was my PE teacher also, which school DJC?

:o He was my PE teacher also, which school DJC?

Newlands High School in Murray Rd, Coburg, next to Pentridge.

One thing is for sure he gives 100%, it's just that his 100% it's only about 80% of what he actually needs to be a part of an AFL team! It's not his fault, it's his limitations.

So yes some dread, he's our club version of a DUFF.

How we still have Ellard while Kane Lambert gets a gig at Nthmond is a puzzle! I suggest our 2s coaching crew has some hard questions it needs to answer!

I don't buy that argument LP.

Ellard when fit and playing VFL racks up more quality possessions that Lambert ever would. Before he made his debut, he as having ridiculous numbers and won the Northen Bullants Best and Fairest in 2009.

We look longingly at someone like Kane Lambert, when in reality, Davey Ellard is above his standard and is an AFL standard player. If he wasn't on our list, he would probably win a Sandover or JJ Liston and we would be sitting here debating how he would be someone we should draft next year.

The argument is Back to Front.

Newlands High School in Murray Rd, Coburg, next to Pentridge.

Ah ok, he taught me at Thornbury High School. Hard as nails the old fella was. He was a coach for the Vic Rugby Union Team if I recall.

I don't think it's a work rate thing I think it's a confidence thing. For whatever reason our boys are rooted to the spot, perhaps afraid to break team rules or make an error? Our best players used to love to burst forward of the ball, that is but a remnant of a bygone era for us.

Just on this, i think perception is clouding judgement a little.

Off the ball I saw a whole host of players making a lead, or an option, only for them to be ignored until the decision to pass to them was too late, and they had an opponent on them.  The flow on effect of having ignored that option once or twice, means that come the third or fourth time, the player making that option has already decided the ball isnt coming their way, and then they either stop making that effort, or worse still make that effort half baked.  Working for no good reason will render any player useless quickly.  In soccer it is a dead set killer, and I would imagine it would be no different in footy.

The issue is, the bloke in posession, taking too long to move it on, or thinking about their decision making too much.  This is a repetition, learning, error.  Our players make poor decisions.  Particularly under pressure.  This has been the case for years.  In the past, the Ratten game plan was simple in this regard.  Kick long to a big man, or bomb to the forwardline when under extreme pressure and it masked the problem because we had a ruckman with 3 nippy blokes down there, or a dead set legend in Fev who could make crap into gold in terms of delivery because of the way he hunted the footy.  We forget, he was required to kick most of his goals outside 50, and the only thing that made it okay was the fact that his conversion of set shots outside of fifty was greater than 60% across his career.

We have not drilled our blokes well enough over the years in terms of making good decisions, and good delivery to create opportunities for our forwards.  The result is players reluctant to lead (ignored options plus crap delivery).

We have a way to go, but you wont see any of the top teams do this.  They might play direct footy, but they never ever just hit and hope with their kicking.

@Thry

OK, but it really puzzles me that it's taking our guys so long to learn this, surely Mick would be right on it and drilling it into their minds?? Or is it again reflective of poor onfield leadership?

Re Cacboult and Warnock, I don't reckon either should play. Casboult is out of form and hasn't earned his spot, Warnock like Walker and Kreuzer should come back via the magoos.

Unfortunately we look like needing 1 to play, it looks like Casboult got the nod.

Re Cacboult and Warnock, I don't reckon either should play. Casboult is out of form and hasn't earned his spot, Warnock like Walker and Kreuzer should come back via the magoos.

Unfortunately we look like needing 1 to play, it looks like Casboult got the nod.

Amers, I think we will try and exploit WCE's KPD injuries so Casboult may be a good choice even if his form has been down so far. Could in fact play him back into form?

I don't buy that argument LP.

Ellard when fit and playing VFL racks up more quality possessions that Lambert ever would. Before he made his debut, he as having ridiculous numbers and won the Northen Bullants Best and Fairest in 2009.

We look longingly at someone like Kane Lambert, when in reality, Davey Ellard is above his standard and is an AFL standard player. If he wasn't on our list, he would probably win a Sandover or JJ Liston and we would be sitting here debating how he would be someone we should draft next year.

The argument is Back to Front.

What did you think of McLean's selection back in the day?

@Thry

OK, but it really puzzles me that it's taking our guys so long to learn this, surely Mick would be right on it and drilling it into their minds?? Or is it again reflective of poor onfield leadership?

I think it might be a learned behaviour.  I did point to Ratten's game plan masking the problem.  It would be very easy for a player to slip back into old habits (particularly when fatigued) and given the Malthouse game plan requires everyone being on the same page, it makes it hard when players perform the above.

Some will point to this being more astute coaching by Ratten, and they might be right, but thats a matter of philosophy rather than bonafide clear black and white decision making.

Contrast it to Hawthorn.  Each and every kick is put into an area designed to maximise their advantage, and unsettle their opponent.  Have a look at the method deployed to really stifle us.  Richmond waited for the eventual turnover at half back with the loose man to launch a counter attack.  Would Ratten's game plan have helped here?  Im not so confident.

The hardest thing to do in the face of pressure, is maintain your composure.  That's probably the key to us improving.  If we can master our composure and confidence under pressure we will improve very quickly.

Ah ok, he taught me at Thornbury High School. Hard as nails the old fella was. He was a coach for the Vic Rugby Union Team if I recall.

Yes he was Victorian coach and hard as nails.

I lost my wallet on an school trip to SA (we used to play footy, basketball, etc against a SA school) and it was handed in to Paddy.  He was looking for identification and found a condom in it (I think I still have it  :-[ ) and the look he gave me had me quaking in my boots.

Looks as though Casboult is in.

Not sure if Smith will make the 22.   Looked really out of sorts last Thursday.

In: Casboult , Tutt, Armfield.

Out: Jaksch, Thomas, Smith.

Looks as though Casboult is in.

Not sure if Smith will make the 22.   Looked really out of sorts last Thursday.

In: Casboult , Tutt, Armfield.

Out: Jaksch, Thomas, Smith.

This is probably our only option, unless Warnock comes good.

West Coast out run us in the pre-season, on top of already looking too slow and too top heavy last week I am not sure we need to add Casboult to replace Jaksch. Especially given Casboult is slowing and less agile than Jaksch.

I know Everitt has to be positive;

"We're not sure what the Eagles' team is going to be so Levi has been pretty good in the reserves this year, as well as 'Tutty' with that forward pressure," utility Andrejs Everitt said on Thursday at Melbourne Airport.

But Casboult allegedly only had 9 possessions in four quarters of a VFL practice match, lets hope he was throwing a smokescreen!

In: Casboult, Tutt

Out: Thomas, Jaksch

Official

(Smith holds his place)

That's a stubborn Mick Malthouse effort keeping Clem in. Would hate to admit he got it wrong. :))

That's a stubborn Mick Malthouse effort keeping Clem in. Would hate to admit he got it wrong. :))

Or showing faith in his players? Only 2 forced changes.  ???

That's a stubborn Mick Malthouse effort keeping Clem in. Would hate to admit he got it wrong. :))

you cant crush a first game player..mick is correct

remember watson was destroyed by cloke in his first game (ratts?) watson was in the reserves for the next 2 years

My comment was jestingly aimed at MBB. :P

One or more of the emergencies is a chance.

Now to play them where they should be eg Rowe in defense.  How Smith retains a place is beyond me, showed nothing and was a liability.

Amers, I think we will try and exploit WCE's KPD injuries so Casboult may be a good choice even if his form has been down so far. Could in fact play him back into form?

It could Cookie and I understand the decision, but I would prefer him to have to earn it back in the 2nds 1st !!
Now that he is in the team, all the best to him and I hope he kicks a bagful !!

Nice to see Walker named in the magoos !! He might be right for next week against the Bummers.

My comment was jestingly aimed at MBB. :P

It's a foolish selection, hopefully he makes a change or hopefully no one gets injured and he just plays the last quarter.

It could Cookie and I understand the decision, but I would prefer him to have to earn it back in the 2nds 1st !!
Now that he is in the team, all the best to him and I hope he kicks a bagful !!

Yep, and best of luck also to Tutt in his first senior game for us - let's see if we can start turning things around a bit! Go Blues!

It could Cookie and I understand the decision, but I would prefer him to have to earn it back in the 2nds 1st !!
Now that he is in the team, all the best to him and I hope he kicks a bagful !!

No choice. Jaklsch is out, Rowe has to go back means Casboult has to come in for the ruck duties.

That's a stubborn Mick Malthouse effort keeping Clem in. Would hate to admit he got it wrong. :))

I've been agreeing a bit too much with you the last few days Carrots!! :P
I tend to agree, a developing player needs game time, not a qtr here or there even if is in a higher grade.

Carlton squad to face West Coast:

B: 17. Sam Rowe, 40. Michael Jamison, 15. Sam Docherty

HB: 33. Andrejs Everitt, 13. Chris Yarran, 42. Zach Tuohy

C: 35. Ed Curnow, 44. Andrew Carrazzo, 6. Kade Simpson

HF: 4. Bryce Gibbs, 2. Troy Menzel, 28. Tom Bell

F: 14. Liam Jones, 23. Lachie Henderson, 3. Marc Murphy (C)

Foll: 36. Cameron Wood, 43. Simon White, 5. Chris Judd

Interchange: 41. Levi Casboult, 9. Patrick Cripps, 22. Jason Tutt, 25. Clem Smith

Emergencies: 27. Dennis Armfield, 38. Ciaran Byrne, 46. David Ellard

In: Casboult, Tutt

Out: Thomas (shoulder), Jaksch (ribs)

Now to play them where they should be eg Rowe in defense.  How Smith retains a place is beyond me, showed nothing and was a liability.

A little harsh perhaps Prof.

Smith did well in the NAB Challenge and he had a go on Thursday.  Admittedly, he was a little lost and ran out of puff but, along with Jaksch, he has shown more than the other additions to our list.

I agree wholeheartedly with you about playing blokes in their right positions.  Hopefully, Casboult's inclusion will mean that Rowe doesn't have to alternate between CHB, ruck and FF  ::)

Now to play them where they should be eg Rowe in defense.  How Smith retains a place is beyond me, showed nothing and was a liability.

Smith was the same in his first two NAB games before playing pretty well against Geelong.

I reckon you'll see a similar improvement in the real stuff.

I've been agreeing a bit too much with you the last few days Carrots!! :P

I would go see the doctor ASAP!

I think MM definitely sees something in Clem and will give him time to find his feet in the seniors by persevering with him.

I should add that I'm just a little surprised that one of Armfield, Byrne or Ellard isn't in the 22.

No, I'm not surprised, it's more like puzzled.

Structurally Casboult is a huge addition - thank god they came to their senses, albeit one week late (and perhaps not entirely by choice).

I'm not sure what the club sees in Tutt, but hopefully he can emerge as a Haydn Ballantyne type. Fingers crossed.

Not sure that we'll win, but hoping for the best.

Seriously, Casboult? ???

He was stitched up by a grand total of zero AFL listed players today! :o

I recall MM talking about having to pick players on form, just last night in the post match, we will see!

Really glad they've gone with Casboult.

It's a night for chest marks so Jones should kick 15.

I should add that I'm just a little surprised that one of Armfield, Byrne or Ellard isn't in the 22.

No, I'm not surprised, it's more like puzzled.

Why?

...for Smith?

Nobody there has shown more than any of the other 21 blokes in the side so far.

If its for Smith, then i think you would be doing more damage by dropping him after 1 game.

Surely lightning couldn't strike twice re early injuries.

Surely lightning couldn't strike twice re early injuries.

OMG jinx alert!

Malthouse usually likes to throw the youngsters back in the 2s if they don't hit the ground running in the seniors.

Either Mick is changing or he was happy with Clem's approach to the contest.

Interesting move either way, I prefer this approach that you give the kid a chance.

Malthouse usually likes to throw the youngsters back in the 2s if they don't hit the ground running in the seniors.

Either Mick is changing or he was happy with Clem's approach to the contest.

Interesting move either way, I prefer this approach that you give the kid a chance.

Nannette's favourite player. ;D

^^

Gets a like from me!

We are fecking crazy, up to 25mm of rain, high winds and flooding predicted for Perth region over the next 24hrs and we going taller than last week!

(http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDYPME04/20150409_20150412/pme1to4.png)

Hate it when they drop a kid after one game so playing Smith is good development IMO and I like the way he approaches his footy even though he was off the pace of the game last week, but the only way to learn is by playing seniors...

Casboult and Tutt as ins doesnt fill me with great confidence especially Casboult being so out of form but Wood would be knackered if he had to ruck all game vs NitWit and Lycett so the change had to be made. Tutt makes us look better balanced if he plays forward and  makes us more mobile at ground level.
Everitt needs to do more this week and I would have Carrazzo on Priddis as Curnow has been towelled up every time by the now Brownlow medallist....
Bit of attention needs paying to Lecras who is one of those difficult matchups due to his overhead  marking coupled with his ground play...

Wow Priddis will kill us in the rain.

Sorry, but this part of your analysis I disagree with completely. The main reason other teams are able to string together posessions is that they work hard. Just watch our guys in the first quarter on the weekend and see how hard they run in attack. running past the player who has taken a mark, running into space, running to create an open target. It's exactly the way the better teams play. You cannot create uncontested posession unless you work hard off the ball. Similarly, if in defence you don't work hard off the ball, then your opponent gets a free posession.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Now that you have worded it so well, I need to add nothing. We did run hard in the first quarter and presented on a lead very often. Hence opportunities to score. Once we stopped working hard off the ball, we bombed it forward and turned the ball over. Our tackles were very poor. Even Judd let McIntosh cruise past him for a goal at one stage, and put no effort into stopping him. Even the commentators noticed this and made a comment. This continued in the last 3 quarters. We didn't try to run hard back into defence on a turn over at all. Just couldn't be bothered.

Weagles line up:


B: Elliot Yeo,   Jeremy McGovern,   Jamie Bennell
HB: Shannon Hurn,   Will Schofield,   Brad Sheppard
C: Andrew Gaff,   Matt Priddis,   Matt Rosa.
HF: Chris Masten,   Josh Kennedy,   Sharrod Wellingham.
F: Jamie Cripps,   Scott Lycett,   Patrick McGinnity.
Fol: Nic Naitanui,   Mark LeCras,   Luke Shuey.
I/C: Liam Duggan,   Jackson Nelson,   Dom Sheed,   Simon Tunbridge
Emg: Brant Colledge,   Josh Hill,  Kane Lucas

In:  Jamie Bennell,   Will Schofield,  Liam Duggan,   Simon Tunbridge
Out  Scott Selwood (Ankle),  Mitchell Brown (Knee),  Sam Butler (Adductor),   Tom Lamb (Omitted)

New: Liam Duggan

The Weagles' back line looks dubious, but our lack of forwards and the rain will probably take that advantage from us.
The Weagles' ruck combo looks dangerous and we have struggled to squash Matt Priddis, Luke Shuey and Andrew Gaff in recent times.
It would be embarrassing if Lucas played and they won.

Why?

...for Smith?

Nobody there has shown more than any of the other 21 blokes in the side so far.

If its for Smith, then i think you would be doing more damage by dropping him after 1 game.

Surely lightning couldn't strike twice re early injuries.

You obviously didn't read my post about Smith's retention  ;)

I'd prefer the pace of Armfield, the run and hardness of Byrne, or the defensive pressure in the forward 50 provided by Ellard to a top heavy forward line (particularly in the wet), an out of form Tuohy and an unconvincing Tutt.

Its not too important who we play in the squad. If we play 3 quarters of footy as we did against the Tigers, we will get completely smashed. West Coast are off a loss and back at home. They have a point to prove. Being the fact that there could be rain will help us as West Coast will score less and beat us by a smaller margin IMO. I hope Nic Nat doesn't drill us a new one.

There defence looks shallow with a couple out. Maybe that is a chance we must try taking advantage of.

There defence looks shallow with a couple out. Maybe that is a chance we must try taking advantage of.

We will need a functioning, balanced forward line to do that Mantis.

I'd play Yarran, Henderson, White, Menzel, Casboult and Ellard as our starting forward six.

But you're right about playing 4 quarters of good footy (Although I thought our last quarter wasn't all that bad.  Not good mind you, just not too bad).

That is probably a starting 6 in the forward line that could work. 2 decent talls, Menzel and Yarran are mobile forwards with pace, and White along with Ellard have a defencive game. White is a useful marking option.

Like that Smith has been retained. He did ok for a first year player, and certainly was on the ground much sooner than hoped. Giving him a 2 or 3 game opportunity is the right thing to do.  He can then go back to the seconds with a clearer understanding of what is required to develop.

I also like that the changes made are the result of injury, not chucking out the baby and bathwater.. Making 4 or 5 changes after round one indicates something pretty wrong and can do more harm than good. We were not thrashed by Richmond so we reload and go again.  The players have to step up so they get the chance to do so.

The key is to get the ball on the outside that allows for cleaner delivery forward.  This means making opportunity for tidier kicks from forward of centre rather than up and unders from half back, hoping they will get marked.  All of this will happen or not as a result of the midfield working hard enough, which was a big deficiency last week. 

Go Blues!

I would go see the doctor ASAP!

I'm scared what the prognosis will be...

We will win easy.

We will win easy.

I hope you're right CIMM.

Lose and we're officially a laughing stock.

We will win easy.

I think we will win...that WC bench is light on for experience, like Selwood being out too as that will make life easier for Judd or Murphy...
15 points margin given it will rain ..probably one of the weakest WC teams I have seen on paper...

I think we will win...that WC bench is light on for experience, like Selwood being out too as that will make life easier for Judd or Murphy...
15 points margin given it will rain ..probably one of the weakest WC teams I have seen on paper...

That's what convinced me in the end.

Their bottom 6 looks very suspect.

Yes, I know ours aint much chop either.

The one thing that concerns me is that West Coast seem to have lots of running types in defense.  They appear to have formulated a plan to try and expose our lack of forward pressure.   This could be interesting.

The one thing that concerns me is that West Coast seem to have lots of running types in defense.  They appear to have formulated a plan to try and expose our lack of forward pressure.   This could be interesting.

They just came up with it this week?

They just came up with it this week?

Probably more a case of that they don't have any tall defenders left, so they are trying to make a positive out of what they have.
Having seen us turn the ball over so many times and get caught on the rebound probably makes them feel positive about their defensive structure. They play against Sydney or Hawthorn and it will lead to carnage, but against us, they probably feel they have their best structure.
Recall if you will the NAB Cup game a few weeks back: they pounded us with their ruck dominance and midfield run. They probably want to try it again, seeing our weakness against the turnover.

. . . Even Judd let McIntosh cruise past him for a goal at one stage, and put no effort into stopping him. Even the commentators noticed this and made a comment . . .

If you're referring to the incident where McIntosh 'won' a one on one contest then ran off Judd, have a look at it again.  Judd was leading to the ball when McIntosh grabbed his arm and pulled him off balance.  Judd was effectively out of the contest.

If Judd was still in Wet Toast colours, he would have got a free kick.

If you're referring to the incident where McIntosh 'won' a one on one contest then ran off Judd, have a look at it again.  Judd was leading to the ball when McIntosh grabbed his arm and pulled him off balance.  Judd was effectively out of the contest.

If Judd was still in Wet Toast colours, he would have got a free kick.

Yes it was bullcrap, furthermore the umpire was in perfect position to see the whole thing yet did nothing! Ablett Jnr would be bitching like a cut snake in the same circumstances, and then he'd get a pocketful of frees for the rest of the game!

Judd just shakes his head and gets on with it.

The one thing that concerns me is that West Coast seem to have lots of running types in defense.  They appear to have formulated a plan to try and expose our lack of forward pressure.   This could be interesting.

But their skills are as bad as ours.

Its a bit wet here in Perth, This game could be a 4 goal draw.

But their skills are as bad as ours.

Its a bit wet here in Perth, This game could be a 4 goal draw.

Are you or any of the other WA members going to the game ?

Are you or any of the other WA members going to the game ?

Not me.

Missed the ticket sale and didn't feel like paying through the nose for me and the kids.

The Blues got my membership money so I figure that's enough.

Hoping to go to Melb this year and catch a couple of games anyway and the $300-400 bucks it cost me to go to subi is better spent in Melb.

Hoping to go to Melb this year and catch a couple of games anyway and the $300-400 bucks it cost me to go to subi is better spent in Melb.

Frig! Why the high cost?

Frig! Why the high cost?

Tickets by viagogo, food, parking, a couple of beers for me. One of the kids friends normally come along as well.

Never get out of it for less that $300.

The last time I went I also went through a speed camera on the way home after getting done by the Dockers.

PERFECT screwING DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But their skills are as bad as ours.

Its a bit wet here in Perth, This game could be a 4 goal draw.

I'll be there.... Nice and dry in the Channel 7 box :-)..at least I have free beer to drown my sorrows.

Hope to get a real good look at how we set up.

I'll be there.... Nice and dry in the Channel 7 box :-)..at least I have free beer to drown my sorrows.

Hope to get a real good look at how we set up.

I didn't know you were an EFC sympathizer! :o :D

I'll be there.... Nice and dry in the Channel 7 box :-)..at least I have free beer to drown my sorrows.

Hope to get a real good look at how we set up.

I look forward to your report (the pre booze report anyway).

I look forward to your report (the pre booze report anyway).

We looked really good for the first 45 minutes, skipping away to a 24 point lead early in the second. The Midfield were on top early, and defensive pressure was good. However Carrazzo took a knock early and had to go off and Smith came on as Sub early again. We missed some really easy shots on goal. Should of been more up. Levi was a good presecene but 0 goals 2 and 1 out on the full is not good enough.

Priddis started to win the hitout advantages and racked them up, the umpires got involved and the eagles kicked 4 in a row to take a small lead into half time. Liam Duggan on Debut finished with 25 possessions and 2 goals.

They kicked the first 2 in the third, and our plans were thrown out, our mids started to not chase, and our Defence was all over the place, missing targets and giving to much easy ball from the midfield. Murphy and Gibbs started trying to get easy kicks and Judd was manhandled at every contest. When we won the ball we chipped it around slowly, trying to pierce the zone, but our skills were not good enough in the wet conditions.

Henderson and Jones gave no forward presence and the ball rebounded easily from our front half, where they cut us up through the middle.

White and Rowe kicked some late goals, but we ran out of puff to lose by 23 points.

Malthouse told the media the Eagles are a very good football side and we need to stick to our structures better, and he is not concerned about his job.

Blokes fly home that night and get on Twitter and Instagram to say they will try harder next week.




There's my report, I can just sit back an drink now?

I'll be there.... Nice and dry in the Channel 7 box :-)..at least I have free beer to drown my sorrows.

Hope to get a real good look at how we set up.

Would be very interested in your thoughts after the game!

There's my report, I can just sit back an drink now?

Well earned, and at Ch7 expense go straight to the top shelf, at least one of us should get some value from their broadcast! ;)

We looked really good for the first 45 minutes, skipping away to a 24 point lead early in the second. The Midfield were on top early, and defensive pressure was good. However Carrazzo took a knock early and had to go off and Smith came on as Sub early again. We missed some really easy shots on goal. Should of been more up. Levi was a good presecene but 0 goals 2 and 1 out on the full is not good enough.

Priddis started to win the hitout advantages and racked them up, the umpires got involved and the eagles kicked 4 in a row to take a small lead into half time. Liam Duggan on Debut finished with 25 possessions and 2 goals.

They kicked the first 2 in the third, and our plans were thrown out, our mids started to not chase, and our Defence was all over the place, missing targets and giving to much easy ball from the midfield. Murphy and Gibbs started trying to get easy kicks and Judd was manhandled at every contest. When we won the ball we chipped it around slowly, trying to pierce the zone, but our skills were not good enough in the wet conditions.

Henderson and Jones gave no forward presence and the ball rebounded easily from our front half, where they cut us up through the middle.

White and Rowe kicked some late goals, but we ran out of puff to lose by 23 points.

Malthouse told the media the Eagles are a very good football side and we need to stick to our structures better, and he is not concerned about his job.

Blokes fly home that night and get on Twitter and Instagram to say they will try harder next week.




There's my report, I can just sit back an drink now?

Very good. Have to pay that.

We looked really good for the first 45 minutes, skipping away to a 24 point lead early in the second. The Midfield were on top early, and defensive pressure was good. However Carrazzo took a knock early and had to go off and Smith came on as Sub early again. We missed some really easy shots on goal. Should of been more up. Levi was a good presecene but 0 goals 2 and 1 out on the full is not good enough.They kicked the first 2 in the third, and our plans were thrown out, our mids started to not chase, and our Defence was all over the place, missing targets and giving to much easy ball from the midfield. Murphy and Gibbs started trying to get easy kicks and Judd was manhandled at every contest. When we won the ball we chipped it around slowly, trying to pierce the zone, but our skills were not good enough in the wet conditions.

Henderson and Jones gave no forward presence and the ball rebounded easily from our front half, where they cut us up through the middle.

White and Rowe kicked some late goals, but we ran out of puff to lose by 23 points.


Priddis started to win the hitout advantages and racked them up, the umpires got involved and the eagles kicked 4 in a row to take a small lead into half time. Liam Duggan on Debut finished with 25 possessions and 2 goals.


Malthouse told the media the Eagles are a very good football side and we need to stick to our structures better, and he is not concerned about his job.

Blokes fly home that night and get on Twitter and Instagram to say they will try harder next week.




There's my report, I can just sit back an drink now?

Poorly researched.

They are holding a fan clinic on Sat morning in Perth.

The rest is quite feasible.

Poorly researched.

They are holding a fan clinic on Sat morning in Perth.

The rest is quite feasible.

If Shadesy is accurate, there won't be many if any at it!

Are we any risk of letting Cripps get involved at stoppages? Or will he be wasted floating around doing not much of anything.

I think he was involved in 20+ stoppages in the NAB game V Geelong and 3 versus Richmond.

The guy is 10 feet tall and the eagles mids are pygmies.

Are we any risk of letting Cripps get involved at stoppages? Or will he be wasted floating around doing not much of anything.

I think he was involved in 20+ stoppages in the NAB game V Geelong and 3 versus Richmond.

The guy is 10 feet tall and the eagles mids are pygmies.

He may have had a bit of Judd envy last week, fwiw they looked like they were all back to the old "Stand-back and let the man work" mode of operation! Which wasn't a major problem because I think we did OK in stoppages, plus Judd is just awesome!

So I agree, let Cripps get in there and let someone like Judd or Gibbs make themselves dangerous on the outside or inside F50.

Are we any risk of letting Cripps get involved at stoppages? Or will he be wasted floating around doing not much of anything.

I think he was involved in 20+ stoppages in the NAB game V Geelong and 3 versus Richmond.

The guy is 10 feet tall and the eagles mids are pygmies.

I so hope he becomes something like David Mundy

Weather radar looking pretty good - i doubt the weather will be a major factor looking at the 512km radar..

Weather radar looking pretty good - i doubt the weather will be a major factor looking at the 512km radar..

Lots of rain been around, will be greasy.

Lots of rain been around, will be greasy.

After about 15mm, it ain't going to be dry!

Vs WCE history

From the 2011 Elimination Final team, of that 22

8 will play tonight

4 are still around but not in the team

10 have either been moved on or retired.

I so hope he becomes something like David Mundy

Does Mundy get crowded out by 4 taggers from his own team at the stoppages?

After about 15mm, it ain't going to be dry!

15mm?

http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/observations/perth.shtml (http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/observations/perth.shtml)

I'll be there.... Nice and dry in the Channel 7 box :-)..at least I have free beer to drown my sorrows.

Have a good one stevo ;)
Look forward to the presser ;D

Tim Gossage just referred to a rumour that Josh Kennedy could withdraw. Not sure if this should be in Navy Andrew.

Tim Gossage just referred to a rumour that Josh Kennedy could withdraw. Not sure if this should be in Navy Andrew.

Now Gossage has backed away from that rumour.

Now Gossage has backed away from that rumour.

LOL any sub/emergency news for us?

Cripps out, Ellard in.

Smith the sub.

Cripps out, Ellard in.

Great news, we'll win now.

Cripps out, Ellard in.

Wow it's ridiculous, I remember we won Davey Ellard's first game against WCE in Perth back in 2008. Now in his eighth season he's still not a regular but amazingly remains on our list. And people go on about our list management in the past. Sheesh.

We are screwed

Anyone expecting a big improvement on last weeks performance will be sadly disappointed. I fear what will happen in the coming days.

Mick still can't see Carlton losing a game this year.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/11012009_942021182496626_3094139066465843840_n.jpg?oh=a1772e77d963b1b0ead27a8de949e2bb&oe=55B75AF8&__gda__=1437739333_07c918a6d83cc1abab6b64fbaef61ae3)

Mick still can't see Carlton losing a game this year.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/11012009_942021182496626_3094139066465843840_n.jpg?oh=a1772e77d963b1b0ead27a8de949e2bb&oe=55B75AF8&__gda__=1437739333_07c918a6d83cc1abab6b64fbaef61ae3)

BAhahahahaha

Anyone expecting a big improvement on last weeks performance will be sadly disappointed. I fear what will happen in the coming days.

Nah, this will go okay I reckon. Wet will help us in the big danger aera of the ground

I'm not sure people appreciate how low on personnel the WCE are.  They are brining guys in from the burbs.

15 points our way. 

No sign of rain on the radar, subi drains well too aparantly. Should be decent conditions.

Cripps out
Ellard in

Smith sub.

Murphy carrying knee injury