In among the discussion of his increase in height the other day Patrick Cripps had this to say...
There's a real positive sort of vibe around the joint. I think Bolts is going to be really good for the group.....a new game plan is going to get the best out of a lot of people.
So what will be the new approach.
You would think there would be a strong Hawthorn influence but...
This is an opportunity for Bolton to put some of his own strategies into practice.
In very simplistic terms...rightly or wrongly...One of the criticisms of both Pagan and Malthouse was that they tried to make the players adapt and play to 'their' game plan, rather than choose a game plan that suited the skills and abilities of the list at the time.
Ratten seemed to adopt a different approach in that his strategy seemed to be to let the list play to their strengths...The criticism of that was that such a plan didn't stand up under certain circumstances...particularly finals pressure. ("that type of football will never win you a flag was a constant theme")
So it's over to Bolton...
How will he approach it?
How will our significant list changes impact on those strategies.
Shame, the old game used to help get me to sleep.
Hawthorn's game centered around getting their big forwards cleanish ball to their advantage.
The issue we have with that is we lack the mids to carry that out let alone the forwards.
We marvel at Hawthorn's skill but that is 10 years in the making and resulted in some very ugly football in the first 3 years. Not sure we have the patience and Bolts the runs on the board to weather that period.
He'll need his own ideas, that's for sure.
I reckon we'll see players working harder to create space and time for better delivery to the forwards.
I would be very surprised if we don't adopt more of a Hawthorn gamestyle but with modifications to suit the strengths and cover the limitations of our list.
Shame, the old game used to help get me to sleep.
I actually fell asleep for the first time ever watching Carlton vs Collingwood in 2014.
No more long down the boundary, those who fail to move the ball on quickly will fast become obsolete.
There was a phrase that Bolton used very soon after he got the job, which I very much like :
"collective offense, collective defense"
Possibly glib, possibly cliched, but if the team can play to that, every minute of every game, I'll be happy.
There was a phrase that Bolton used very soon after he got the job, which I very much like :
"collective offense, collective defense"
Possibly glib, possibly cliched, but if the team can play to that, every minute of every game, I'll be happy.
We need a simple phrase that symbolises our approach and reminds our guys at all times what is expected. If that one works then it's a good one.
In among the discussion of his increase in height the other day Patrick Cripps had this to say...
So what will be the new approach.
You would think there would be a strong Hawthorn influence but...
This is an opportunity for Bolton to put some of his own strategies into practice.
In very simplistic terms...rightly or wrongly...One of the criticisms of both Pagan and Malthouse was that they tried to make the players adapt and play to 'their' game plan, rather than choose a game plan that suited the skills and abilities of the list at the time.
Ratten seemed to adopt a different approach in that his strategy seemed to be to let the list play to their strengths...The criticism of that was that such a plan didn't stand up under certain circumstances...particularly finals pressure. ("that type of football will never win you a flag was a constant theme")
So it's over to Bolton...
How will he approach it?
How will our significant list changes impact on those strategies.
The problem is Lods, when you have a group of kids who are only learning the game. How do we build a game plan around kids when we don't know how they play?!
As mentioned elsewhere though, it will be team focussed, you can guarantee that much. Although Micks gameplan was said to be similar in that regard, 'play your role...whatever that may be'...i think Bolton will be even more specific in his needs. Think Clarkos cluster (18 players working as 1). Don't do your job and it stands out immediately.
I just hope our boys have the dedication to follow it through. Getting rid of the 3 blokes we did will help (Yazz, Menzel + Hendo).
The problem is Lods, when you have a group of kids who are only learning the game. How do we build a game plan around kids when we don't know how they play?!
As mentioned elsewhere though, it will be team focussed, you can guarantee that much. Although Micks gameplan was said to be similar in that regard, 'play your role...whatever that may be'...i think Bolton will be even more specific in his needs. Think Clarkos cluster (18 players working as 1). Don't do your job and it stands out immediately.
I just hope our boys have the dedication to follow it through. Getting rid of the 3 blokes we did will help (Yazz, Menzel + Hendo).
I was just curious that Cripps specifically mentioned a "new game" plan.
Bolton has obviously outlined some type of general plan.
He would no doubt have worked closely with Silvagni in the time he's been at the club.... so they would have formulated a strategy as to the type of players to fit Bolton's plans.
Just looking at the draft selections and you get a feeling they may be looking at a Hawthorn 2004 type of rebuild.
I was just curious that Cripps specifically mentioned a "new game" plan.
Bolton has obviously outlined some type of general plan.
He would no doubt have worked closely with Silvagni in the time he's been at the club.... so they would have formulated a strategy as to the type of players to fit Bolton's plans.
Just looking at the draft selections and you get a feeling they may be looking at a Hawthorn 2004 type of rebuild.
I think you are looking too deeply into Lods.
From a teenage kid with a potentially limited vocabulary, a "new game plan" could mean...
- a new philosophy.
- a new set of team rules
- the new buzz words they are told to spit out by higher ups to appease supporters. ;)
I'd be pretty staggered if they have an entirely new game plan (akin to clarkos cluster) before we even have a finished list.
As for the hawthorn type rebuild, i reckon you can do that without a game plan.
Just look at where the holes are in our list.
I identified that there was large gaping holes in our KP stocks, both in senior players and players coming through. I also suggested we should start recruiting them earlier than we should other potential holes (mids etc) given KPP take at least 1 year longer to come on by comparison.
Where to for here to follow the hawthorn plan? Identify further holes and draft/trade accordingly.
I reckon we need at least 1 more KP forward/back depending on how or IF, Jaksch can hold down a role there.
We'll be a different team next year Kruds
We'll play a different way.
Not all these guys we recruited last night will be ready to go
But those we've traded for will be.
We'll be a different team next year Kruds
We'll play a different way.
Not all these guys we recruited last night will be ready to go
But those we've traded for will be.
Not doubting that. Point i was attempting to make is....how quickly can you get a group to learn an entirely new game plan....especially when some of the group hasn't even returned to training yet AFAIK, and the list hasn't been finalised.
I expect bolts to work quick, but that's warp speed!
Not doubting that. Point i was attempting to make is....how quickly can you get a group to learn an entirely new game plan....especially when some of the group hasn't even returned to training yet AFAIK, and the list hasn't been finalised.
I expect bolts to work quick, but that's warp speed!
All he needs to do over the season is show some improvement and show us a plan that fits the playing group and is a plan the group embrace
4 wins and a percentage of 65%. The bar is pretty low but I suspect the club wouldn't be too fussed with around about the same result.
We'll go better than that based on nothing more than a bit of stability
4 wins and a percentage of 65%. The bar is pretty low but I suspect the club wouldn't be too fussed with around about the same result.
Dont expect it to change much either...the reality is SOS will want another batch of early draft picks for next seasons draft to get some more A grade quality into the club...
I was just curious that Cripps specifically mentioned a "new game" plan.
Bolton has obviously outlined some type of general plan.
He would no doubt have worked closely with Silvagni in the time he's been at the club.... so they would have formulated a strategy as to the type of players to fit Bolton's plans.
Just looking at the draft selections and you get a feeling they may be looking at a Hawthorn 2004 type of rebuild.
One of the videos of training (perhaps the Jaksch interview) shows players in the background being walked through a play on the indoor footy ground. I suspect a lot of work is being put into changing the way we have played over the past few seasons, and so there should be.
Dont expect it to change much either...the reality is SOS will want another batch of early draft picks for next seasons draft to get some more A grade quality into the club...
SOS's requirements may have to take second place to the club's need to improve attendances, memberships, TV scheduling, sponsorship and credibility.
I thought SOS's comment about the club not wanting more No 1 draft picks gave an indication that we're anticipating improvement. Of course, he also hosed down expectations.
I see new game plan as mostly a platitude. I hope the emphasis is more on working as a team and a relentless focus on skills. If you don't do these things well then no particular style of play is going to make much difference. I never thought the Malthouse kick it along the boundary style was much of a problem in itself. If players had the skill and work rate where it needed to be then it would have gone unnoticed. Game plans and styles get alot of attention, but we seem to accept and excuse professional players being unable to kick off both feet.
Most of all, the club has to set higher standards in all areas. The club must make the all important transition from a coach setting expectations for the players, to a genuine team where all participants ask more of each other.
Most of the teams play the same way anyway. The only thing that changes is context.
I noticed that Hawthorn moved the ball round the boundary at times.
It's horses for courses.
The game plan show just how out of touch MMs ideas were.
High possession and intelligent football. Maintaining possession and expending energy efficiently is going to be huge with the capped rotations. The W/L column may not change straight away but it'll be better in the long run.
Skills, composure and trust in your team mates have to be established before we can successfully execute any gameplan. Those aspects just disintegrated last season and must be rebuilt.
The game plan show just how out of touch MMs ideas were.
Yup, and he was taking his frustrations out on the club. We've come a long long way already since the grumpy turd has gone. Thank fork for that.
Footy is not a complicated game.
First up, get your hands on the ball, then use it (quickly) and smartly!
Footy is not a complicated game.
First up, get your hands on the ball, then use it (quickly) and smartly!
True flyboy.
Like the old Allan Jeans game plan which still works today.
There are only 3 options. . . . . 1, we've got the ball. 2, they've got the ball. 3, the ball is in limbo.
We just have to cut options 2 & 3. ;)
Footy is not a complicated game.
First up, get your hands on the ball, then use it (quickly) and smartly!
Simple in theory, but not so simple in practice.
Simple in theory, but not so simple in practice.
It's simple in practice if you don't coach the hell on of the players and trust them to execute the things they do well.
MM didn't trust players, he wanted 22 robots who do his beck and call. But when opposition teams un-picked his game plan he would stand on the boundary and blame the robots. It seemed he blamed players for not being smart enough to ignore his plans, but if they did they got dropped. It was never the game plan's fault, the players were put in no win scenarios.
Apparently / allegedly the same thing was happening at Collingwood before MM got the kibosh, it's one of the alleged reasons why Eddie Everywhere came to the conclusion MMs time was up!
IMHO, there are too many coaches with "A Plan", and not enough coaches who actually develop the player's skills and maximise their output! FFS, MM seemingly had Judd tagging in one game, it's like asking Federer to be ball boy!
They are old fashioned ways, and time has past those ideas by, like when Pagan put Fev at fullback!
I'll be very disappointed if Bolton starts playing Cripps in the back pocket because he's having a bad day!
It's simple in practice if you don't coach the hell on of the players and trust them to execute the things they do well.
MM didn't trust players, he wanted 22 robots who do his beck and call. But when opposition teams un-picked his game plan he would stand on the boundary and blame the robots. It seemed he blamed players for not being smart enough to ignore his plans, but if they did they got dropped. It was never the game plan's fault, the players were put in no win scenarios.
Apparently / allegedly the same thing was happening at Collingwood before MM got the kibosh, it's one of the alleged reasons why Eddie Everywhere came to the conclusion MMs time was up!
IMHO, there are too many coaches with "A Plan", and not enough coaches who actually develop the player's skills and maximise their output! FFS, MM seemingly had Judd tagging in one game, it's like asking Federer to be ball boy!
They are old fashioned ways, and time has past those ideas by, like when Pagan put Fev at fullback!
I'll be very disappointed if Bolton starts playing Cripps in the back pocket because he's having a bad day!
My point was that to get the required level of synchronicity between 18 players, for most of the game, plus taking into account rotations, injuries, opposition pressure etc. is very difficult to do. All AFL teams train long and hard, practicing their skills and everything else, but to get things looking as smooth as the Hawks do, is a real feat.
in our new game plan 2 differences i want to see .1 pressure on the oppostion ball carrier.2Delivery to our leading forwardS.
Delivery to our leading forwardS.
Just kicking it in their general direction would be nice, but having a leading forward would be even nicer! :o
A forward who has more than a isolated 2nd effort, I don't want to see Jones doing the "1, 2 Buckle My Shoe" sh1te.
I want repeat lead after repeat lead in the knowledge that if nothing else the last person standing wins the ball! Our club should sit Jones down, pry open his eyelids with toothpicks and press repeat play on the Jack Riewoldt highlight package until he gets the message!
I don't expect to win a lot of games but I expect to see dramatic improvements in effort, our defensive systems and the manner in which we move the ball - simply because the mob running the show seem to be a bit more clued on than the group that was apparently overseeing things last year. That alone will translate into wins - how many I don't know but there will be some.
I don't think the effect of mad Mick can be underestimated - he ripped the guts from the playing group, destroyed their confidence and preached an antiquated gameplan that was hopeless - no surprise we finished a distant last.
- no surprise we finished a distant last.
The 15 passengers we a-holed out of the joint didn't have even a teensie weensie bit to do it with that you reckon?
The 15 passengers we a-holed out of the joint didn't have even a teensie weensie bit to do it with that you reckon?
Judd, Carrazzo and Bell weren't exactly passengers, but if you subsitute Malthouse, Buttifant, Green, and a few others for them you're probably on the money.
Judd, Carrazzo and Bell weren't exactly passengers, but if you subsitute Malthouse, Buttifant, Green, and a few others for them you're probably on the money.
Fair call, can I revise the number to 12 passengers?
The 15 passengers we a-holed out of the joint didn't have even a teensie weensie bit to do it with that you reckon?
Mate a toxic culture had developed at the club which made some of our better players want out regardless of what was going to happen next. Thank fork Mad Mick is gone, at least many can now see it isn't/wasn't the board that was screwing the cub, it was Mick. What a disaster he was.
Now that he, Sticks and Swann have all left the club we can move on safely knowing that the people that caused this mess are no longer at the club.
Mate a toxic culture had developed at the club which made some of our better players want out regardless of what was going to happen next. Thank fork Mad Mick is gone, at least many can now see it isn't/wasn't the board that was screwing the cub, it was Mick. What a disaster he was.
Now that he, Sticks and Swann have all left the club we can move on safely knowing that the people that caused this mess are no longer at the club.
Yep plain sailing after they went.
Except for a group of players that weren't committed.
We need to continue the clean out.
Murphy and Gibbs at the end of this year for a top 10 pick each would do me
Mate a toxic culture had developed at the club which made some of our better players want out regardless of what was going to happen next. Thank fork Mad Mick is gone, at least many can now see it isn't/wasn't the board that was screwing the cub, it was Mick. What a disaster he was.
Now that he, Sticks and Swann have all left the club we can move on safely knowing that the people that caused this mess are no longer at the club.
My god, you are scary crazy sometimes.
How many players wanted OUT of the club once mick was SACKED?
IF Mick was the problem. Why didn't eliminating the 'problem', actually eliminate the problem!
Players still left. Moreso than ever before.
How far down that rabbit hole are you!
My god, you are scary crazy sometimes.
How many players wanted OUT of the club once mick was SACKED?
IF Mick was the problem. Why didn't eliminating the 'problem', actually eliminate the problem!
Players still left. Moreso than ever before.
How far down that rabbit hole are you!
And can I add, if the same 15 left/retired/traded and MM was still coach, supporters would be out the front of Ikon Park with a noose to lynch the bloke and cans of petrol and matches to burn the place down.
After two pre-season matches I'm a little confused right now.
In both matches, we only kicked 4 goals which really makes me wonder what Bolton's new game-plan really is ??
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the guy, I am genuinely a fan of his work, its just that I'm not getting whatever it is he is teaching them.
Does anyone know for sure what is going on ??
After two pre-season matches I'm a little confused right now.
In both matches, we only kicked 4 goals which really makes me wonder what Bolton's new game-plan really is ??
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the guy, I am genuinely a fan of his work, its just that I'm not getting whatever it is he is teaching them.
Does anyone know for sure what is going on ??
He's got to go.
He's got to go.
WHAT ??????
Does anyone know for sure what is going on ??
Miscommunication.
Our players think they are playing keepings off the guys in navy blue.
WHAT ??????
Well FFS.
Why don't you wait till we've got a strong side on the deck.
Dont have a decent spine or team structure yet, we are still assembling the equipment so I dont think we have reached the point where we can talk about a game plan...
When we finally have all the right players in the right positions then you can teach them a game plan , till then its a bunch of newbies and oldies learning how each other play, so we are not going to be very efficient, not kick a lot of goals or win many games unless some miracle happens....reckon we are two years away from being able to implement a successful game plan...
Dont have a decent spine or team structure yet, we are still assembling the equipment so I dont think we have reached the point where we can talk about a game plan...
x2 Hawthorn were putrid when learning the Clarkson style - once everyone was on the same page, it began working. Bolton will need friends in high places for us to show patience though
I think that the proactive defence is the most obvious aspect of the new game plan. If nothing else, it's less frustrating to watch than the passive defence we used for the last few years.
Let's see how we go with our best 22 in action.
Well FFS.
Why don't you wait till we've got a strong side on the deck.
How different is the game plan going to be though ??
Surely they all play to the same (or similar) style regardless of who is in the team.
How different is the game plan going to be though ??
Surely they all play to the same (or similar) style regardless of who is in the team.
It would be like teaching the Northern Blues the game plan and expecting them to execute it as well as our best 22!!!
There's the plan, then there's the quality of the cattle to execute.